Latest / The Bob Lefsetz Podcast / Alissa Pollack

Transcript

Alissa Pollack · The Bob Lefsetz Podcast

• 0:02
  Speaker 1: Welcome, welcome, welcome back to the Bob Left Sets podcast.
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: My guest today is radio maven, Alyssa Pollack. Alyssa. Hi, Bob.
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: What exactly is your title?
• 0:16
  Speaker 2: My title is president of media base and global music marketing.
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: Okay. This year, they changed your title. So how did
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: your duties change?
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: So my duties didn't change drastically because I have been
• 0:33
  Speaker 2: with MediaBase for about 32 years. But basically, it was
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: an elevation from the standpoint of we're very excited about
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: some of the things we want to do to expand
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: the product. So it was just a new title, but
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: a lot of the duties will be the same.
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: And the other half, the marketing part.
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: The global music marketing. I have a unique role at
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: iHeart in that I actually span two divisions.
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: That's why I didn't come up with a title. It
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: was so long, I didn't know I could remember it. Okay, continue.
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: So I am actually on two sides. So on one side,
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: I have been with MediaBase for 32 years, and I
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: have been overseeing all the sales with the record labels.
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: I've been a big part of building that product since
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: it was on floppy disk. And then on the iHeart side,
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: I do all of our custom brand artist partnerships and
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: music strategy. So what that means is when Verizon or
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: Pepsi or a major brand comes to iHeart and wants
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: to do something that involves an artist, my team is
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: the team that works with them first. to put together
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: the programs, identify the artists, negotiate the deals, and make
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: sure it gets executed. And those would be outside of
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: the tentpole events. So I do anything custom.
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: Just for you, we want to make everything clear. What
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: would be a tentpole event?
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: A tentpole event would be iHeart Festival or Jingle Ball.
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: So if an advertiser wants to do something integrated within
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: those events... That's another team. But if it's outside of
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: those events and it's then it's my team and we
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: do everything that isn't associated with a big concert or
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: a big I heart programming initiative.
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: OK, do you execute or do you beat the bushes
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: for deals, too?
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: I do all of it. So I start with a
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: very data-focused. So I'm sure at some point we'll get
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: into a conversation about my history with data. But I
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: have been part of all of the data systems, the
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: music data systems of the industry my entire career. So
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: I realized at a certain point that when brands are
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: looking to partner with artists, it became very subjective. And
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: so people would say, well, my cousin's neighbor's dog walker
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: doesn't like this artist and therefore we're going to pass
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: on this deal. And I would be like, oh, please
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: don't pass on this. But as data became such a
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: bigger thing in the industry and more available, I realized
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: that if we can productize that and when we go
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: to a brand and recommend an artist, if we can
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: provide them with the information that says, here's all the
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: reasons why you should absolutely consider this artist and why
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: they make sense for your audience and where the crossover is,
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: It's a much better way of doing this, so it
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: takes out the subjectivity. So that's what I've been doing
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: for a long time. So I typically will take the data.
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: I will recommend them. The artists, I think, make sense
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: based on across affinity with their fan bases and or
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: their users and the demo they're trying to hit. And
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: then once we decide on who the target is, I'll
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: go out and then negotiate the deal from soup to
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: nuts and then get the contracts done, negotiate the price,
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: and then help execute the entire thing.
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: Okay. Let's– does somebody in the iHeart team come to
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: you and say, Alyssa, we think we want to be
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: in partnership, Pepsi, Verizon, or do you actually say, hmm,
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: let me go out to Fortune 500 companies and see
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: if I can make a deal?
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: So– traditionally, it's the first. All of our sales team,
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: my function was set up as a support to the
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: sales team. So typically, they're the ones having those conversations
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: and bringing opportunities to me and my team. That being said,
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: because I still work so closely with all the labels
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: on their rollout strategies and their marketing across the board,
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: a lot of times when I'm in a conversation with
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: an artist, a label, the manager, whoever it is, I
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: will hear that they're looking for opportunities. And in that case,
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: I will try and be as proactive I can, whether
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: that's me directly trying to reach out and put something together.
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: But more often, I might take that to our sales team,
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: help them package it up and see if we could
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: proactively find a sponsor that wants to partner.
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: OK, on the surface, these are two different verticals. Do
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: they merge or you basically want half your brain is
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: doing this and the other half is doing that?
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: Well, that was the interesting thing. They're technically two separate things,
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: but because I married the data piece of it into
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: the other piece, I find it to be perfectly synergistic.
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: And I think it's actually what gives us an advantage
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: when we're doing these deals because being able to provide such,
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: you know, in-depth data and insights and expertise in recommending
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: these artists to the brands, I think is actually a
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: superpower of ours. Oh, sorry. I was going to say,
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: one of the things I love to talk about that
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: I think is also an advantage that we bring to
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: the table is the emerging artists. Because not every brand
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: has the seven or eight figure budget that they need
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: to go out. Everyone wants to be with Sabrina Cartman
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: or with Taylor Swift, but that's just not a reality
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: for most people's budgets. So because we're so data focused
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: and because we have our finger on the pulse of
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: who's next, a lot of times I can recommend to
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: a brand, have trust. We know that this artist, by
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: the time your media runs or by the time this
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: campaign actually begins, this person, you won't even be able
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: to afford them anymore. And we've had a lot of
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: great success with that because we're able to get them
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: in with the right artist at the right time. And
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: then they can get to ride the wave of success
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: with that artist, which has been a great benefit.
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: Okay. You say you've been in data for 30 years.
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: Did you fall into it or did you study this?
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: I fell into it. I was an intern at Z100.
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: And then I became part of the premier radio team.
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: And MediaBase was under the premier radio team. I remember
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: meeting Rich Meyer in the hallway. And he showed me
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: this neat product called MediaBase on floppy disk, and we joked— Yeah, you.
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: Know, I know you're a woman. We don't get to
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: its numbers, but what year are we in?
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: We're in 1994-ish. Okay. Actually, we're in about 1996 or
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: 7 at this point. I started in 94.
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: But just because before he shows you MediaBase, what are
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: your— I mean, I know what an intern would be, but
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: once you're on the payroll, what are you doing?
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: So I actually was an intern that this is the
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: funny thing. I went to school, had my master's in
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: psychology and counseling. And I want to.
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: Go deeper into this. Let's go deeper. Wait, wait. You
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: grew up where?
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: I grew up in what I call the Isle of Staten,
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: but Staten Island, New York.
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: Okay. Well, since we're so deep, what did your parents
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: do for a living?
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: My dad was a salesperson. My mom was a teacher.
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: And what did he sell? He sold electronics.
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: Very blue, very blue collar.
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: And how many kids in the family?
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: Two kids. I have an older brother, about two and
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: a half years.
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: And what is his life?
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: He actually is, he's an entrepreneur. He runs restaurants and
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: does bookkeeping and stuff. He actually has a law degree that,
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: and then when he graduated, didn't want to be a
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: lawyer anymore. So he's gone out and just like helps
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: run businesses and stuff.
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: Okay. So where do you go to college?
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: So I go to college at NYU. I get my master's.
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: Just to be clear, you're living in Staten Island. You
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: go to NYU, you live in Manhattan?
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: I actually drove in every day.
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: Really?
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: Would you park?
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: You know, on the street or in the parking garage.
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: And frankly, back then, I think about when I first
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: started working at Premier, I would scrape change off the
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: floor of the car and decide which bridge or tunnel
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: I was going to take home based on which one
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: I could actually afford to get home.
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: So, yeah. Okay, wait. So when you go to NYU's
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: gigantic school and the status has risen dramatically over the years,
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: if you are a non-resident, does that affect your experience?
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: A non-resident in Manhattan. No, no, I mean non-resident, not
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: living in the dorm.
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: Not living in the dorm.
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: It probably did, but I didn't notice it back then.
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: I had my nice little first boyfriend at home that
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: I didn't want to leave. So in my mind, it
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: was not a good choice in retrospect. But at the time,
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: that was the choice. But I don't know that I
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: missed out on anything.
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: So you graduate from college, then you get a master's.
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: I get a master's.
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: What was your undergraduate degree?
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: My undergraduate degree was psychology as well. And then I
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: got a master's in counseling.
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: Okay. Where was that master's from? NYU. Okay. So are
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: we essentially talking five or six years of school?
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: That was six.
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: So between undergrad and master's.
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: Since you went to graduate school, did you have a passion?
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: Do you think this is really want to do?
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: No. Now that we're talking about it, I wanted to
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: be a lawyer.
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: And I missed the test of the school I wanted
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: to get in by a couple of points and had
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: to wait a full year until I could retake the test.
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: So in that time, rather than wait the full year,
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: I had one of my undergrad teachers who was like,
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: I think you would be great in this program. And
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: so I said, let me do this program. And then
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: when I graduate, I'll reapply for law school or somewhere
• 9:50
  Speaker 2: in the middle of this program, I'll reapply to law school.
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: I never ended up doing that. I graduated. I was
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: interning at Z100 now.
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: Well, a little bit slower. Why did you decide not
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: to go to law school? I don't know.
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: I mean, I guess I was enjoying the program, and
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: then I became an intern at Z100. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: You're studying to be counseling. That's a one- or two-year program.
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: That was a two-year program.
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: And- You wake up one day, say, hey, I want
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: to work at C100?
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: Well, I was a big music lover.
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: My grandfather and my father were massive, massive fans of music,
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: more classical and things that aren't necessarily my taste. But
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: my whole life was music and the whole house had,
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: you know, vinyl records. So I was very much a
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: music lover. And when I had to do an internship,
• 10:38
  Speaker 2: you'll appreciate that I was an intern on a show
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: called Love Phones.
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: So that's the Dr.
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: Judy and Chris Jagger. And that was a call and
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: advice radio show. And I thought to myself, how much
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: better could this be that I am partly at a
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: radio station where there's lots of music, but I'm my
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: job was to either counsel people who made it on
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: air and needed more counseling or who never made it
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: on air and needed some counseling.
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: OK, how'd you get the gig?
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: So it's funny that you ask that because I asked
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: my husband if I should tell this part of the story.
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: But I'm sitting in the waiting room of Z100 and
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: they sat me there for hours and they weren't going
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: to hire me because my hair was too big. Keep
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: in mind, I'll show you some pictures. My hair back
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: then in the 90s, you know, early 90s.
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: Did they literally say that your hair is too big?
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: The host said. Was concerned that she didn't want to
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: hire me because my hair was too big. And the
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: program director said, please look past the hair. And thankfully,
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: she did. I was hired. And, you know, it was
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: a wonderful experience working on the show.
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: You're going to school.
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: You need an internship. Were you aware of this internship
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: or you say, what I'd really like to do is
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: work on Z100? How did you?
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: No, I think I probably, you know, I was going
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: to say Google, but no, I wouldn't have Googled it.
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: I don't remember how I found it, but it must
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: have been advertised somewhere.
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: Okay. So they were looking for a person.
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: They were looking for an intern.
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: Okay. And how long did that internship run?
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: I joke, I never left. I was there. They were like,
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: when is your internship over? I was like, three years ago.
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: So I ended up working on the show because I
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: came very close with Dr. Judy and Jagger. And so
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: I just voluntarily stayed on. This was back in the
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: days when they didn't even pay you for internships. So
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: I never wanted to leave. I loved it. And then
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: when I graduated, that was right around the time that
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: that show was becoming syndicated and was purchased by Randy Michaels.
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: From J-Corps, who knew at that time he was also
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: buying Premier Radio Networks. So they said, hey, kid, you
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: just graduated. Would you like to work for us for
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: the summer? And I said, sure. And somewhere in that
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: summer and the next school year, they offered me a
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: job at Premier. I accepted and I've never now left.
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: OK, wait. This was between your two years of school?
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so in the two-year period.
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: So you did finish school.
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: I finished school. I got my master's.
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: But you never did anything.
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: Never did anything.
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: Okay, so you're in the call-in love show. Your job
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: is to be the counselor. Having had that experience, A,
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: is it a certain type of person who does that
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: kind of show? B, to what degree does it affect them?
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: The callers or the?
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the people you're counseling.
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: It's really interesting because, again, it was different times, right?
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: I will say it was very much for entertainment in
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: a lot of ways because you obviously had Judy was
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: the straight woman and Chris was the funny guy.
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: We would go to events and people would walk up
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: to us and say, you have no idea how much
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: you saved our life. I think what was magical about
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: that show and what I think was fantastic is you
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: had the gift of anonymity. So you can call up
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: and talk to a total stranger about your problems and
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: we don't really know who you are. But what was
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: also awesome is all the other people listening that would
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: be too embarrassed or wouldn't feel comfortable making that phone
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: call got the benefit of hearing us. what the caller
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: was saying. So I think there actually was a great
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: benefit not only to the callers, but also the listeners.
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: And I think that's why the show was so popular.
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: So, In terms of counseling, did these people have any problems?
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: What was your... We.
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: Didn't try and go too deep because I obviously wasn't
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: really qualified if somebody was like suicidal or something really deep.
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: A lot of it was me just, we had a
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: whole massive book of like resources. So I would try
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: and either find them local resources for something that made
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: more sense for them. So we were there to just
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: try and maybe get them to the right person that
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: they needed the deeper interaction with, or it might've just
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: been a... real light thing that, you know.
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: Okay. Randy Michaels, you talk like you're buds. Were you buds?
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: We were buds. I will say he was wonderful to
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: me and was just very supportive of me.
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: Okay. But I'm interested in your personality. Okay. You're obviously
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: upbeat and very verbal. Are you the type of person?
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: Let's go to the talent side. I mean, the performer.
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: None of those people make it by accident. Okay. Talent
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: is at most 50%.
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: And a lot of them can see the target and
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: they work it. Right. So were you working it? No,
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: I don't.
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: Again, I don't think I was that smart back then.
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: I just genuinely was very passionate. I was raised again.
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: I was raised very, very blue collar. My father taught
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: me the deepest work ethic. So I was the first
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: one in, last one out. I volunteered to help everyone
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: I could to learn what I could. You know, so
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: I just genuinely was very passionate, very interested in growing,
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: very interested in learning, very interested in connecting. And so
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: it was all by accident. I wasn't purposely working anything,
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: but it definitely worked out for me.
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: Yes. You graduate from the two-year program. Is that when
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: you start getting paid?
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Then I was officially hired by Premier Radio. Okay.
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: Not everyone's going to remember. There's been so many changes
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: in radio. Please describe Premier Radio.
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: So Premier Radio is the syndicated arm of what is
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: now iHeart. Back then it was J-Core and then Clear Channel.
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: What Premiere does is the syndicated shows like Ryan Seacrest,
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: Mario Lopez, Bobby Bones. It's all of the big major shows.
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: So my original job at Premiere was to sell those
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: shows and those services, which included MediaBase, to all of
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: the other radio stations, not just our own, but to
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: every other radio group.
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: Okay, wait a little bit slower. You're working on this
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: call-in love show. When he comes in, he owns your
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: show or is in control of your show. How do
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: you move into sales?
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we're skipping a little bit. So eventually the show
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: was let go and there was no more show. And
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: they came to me and said.
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: Wait, this is the nature of radio. A, did you
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: see it coming? And B, what did everybody think when
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: they got let go?
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: I didn't see it coming and it was very upsetting.
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: And it was a massively popular show. And it had
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: a great run. But at that point, it just had
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: run its course, and they decided we're no longer going
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: to syndicate this show. However, would you like a job selling?
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: And I said, oh, my God, I'm not a salesperson.
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: I can't sell, but I did need a job. I
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: did have to pay for that car to drive in
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: and out, so I decided to give it a chance,
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: and I became a salesperson. Okay.
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: They throw you in the deep end?
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: They throw me in the deep end.
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: Did they give you any instruction, or they say, call
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: this person, sell this?
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: That's what they did. Okay. And it's funny because I started,
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: I was selling the Big Bang concert series.
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: So you only sold one series?
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: No, this was my very first ever experience.
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: But didn't they give you like a list? We have
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: X number of shows.
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: We did, but they eased me in.
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: Okay, just because we're this deep, how many shows, how
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: many salespeople?
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: Probably about eight salespeople. And it was shows and products, right?
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: So there had to be probably at least 40 shows
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: and products because we had production libraries. You had media base.
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: You had services that were off the air. But you
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: also had, again, the Ryan Seacrests of the world and
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: shows like that.
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: Okay. Were you on commission? I was.
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: So salary and commission.
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: Assuming you never sold anything, they would fire you anyway.
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: But a lot of those salary and commission, you can't
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: live on the salary.
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: It was not easy, which will eventually lead to my transition.
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: I mean, if you want to keep going really deep
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: on my personal story, there's a lot here.
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: Okay. So in any event, you start to sell. Tell
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: us that experience.
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: I start to sell. And to our earlier conversation, my
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: degree in psychology probably was the greatest asset I could
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: have ever had because I found myself, I joke when
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: I say this, I say it facetiously, counseling the people
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: I'm calling. So I would have customers or radio station
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: programmers that I'm talking to across the country. And I
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: know this person's going through a divorce and this person's kid,
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: you know, so it was, it was, I was having
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: these great like conversations with people, but my psychology degree
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: helped me a understand personalities and how to deal with them.
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: But also it helped me develop some really incredible true
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: relationships because we would get into great conversations where I
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: guess I was good at giving advice or I was
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: good at like having those conversations with them because of
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: what my actual training was. So I've always been. very
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: much a good people person. So I realized very early
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: on that the person that claimed they were the meanest
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: person ever would be my biggest client. And, you know,
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: there was one person, I remember reading in the database
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: that if we reunited the Beatles and and resurrected Christ,
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: I will still never work with you ever again because
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: he had been mad at something that had happened prior.
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: So I said, oh, this looks interesting. So I called
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: him up and I said, I'm not trying to sell
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: you anything. I see the history here. You know, I'll
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: just be your friend. He's like, whatever. So for like
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: two or three years, I would just call him. We
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: would have conversations. I wouldn't try and sell him anything.
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: I took it very seriously that he was probably never
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: going to work with us again. And then one day
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: I get an email that's like, Send me a contract
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: for MediaBase. And I'm like, don't tease me. And it
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: ended up that not only did he take one product
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: from me, he ended up taking all the products and
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: became one of our best clients. But that was because
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: I put in the work of genuinely caring and not
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: trying to sell him. It actually was the best sales
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: tool I could have tried.
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: Okay, that particular person had their own unique history.
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: Exactly.
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: But it's kind of like Glenn Gary, Glenn Ross, always
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: be closing.
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: Always be closing.
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: So how do you close?
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: Again, I think, and a lot of times interns and
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: young people talk, I advise them on this. I believe
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: my approach was genuinely caring, genuinely listening, not having a,
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: looking for a short-term win at the expense of, you know,
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: not doing the right thing. So I just approach things
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: like we were saying, as I tried to develop real relationships.
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: I tried to really care. I gave them a good deal,
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: even if I made less commission. I just tried to
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: be really fair and it worked.
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: Okay. But very specifically, I'm talking to you, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: At what point do you say, you know, everybody's got
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: their own technique. We've all bought cars. It's like, okay,
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: should we write this up? Or, you know, how would
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: you get to that point?
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: We have a lot of jokes about this. One of
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: my current bosses, Mr. Tom Pullman, who I love, he
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: was one of my original clients. And I remember Craig Kitchen,
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: who ran Premier Radio at the time, we were trying
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: to get Tom to take a particular product. And I
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: remember them saying, well, what did Tom say? And I
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: was like, well, he said no. And they're like, well,
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: what did you say? I said, great, I'll send you
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: the contract. Like, there are times where I just was
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: so relentless. But I guess... I figured out how to
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: stay just on the line of relentless and persistent, but
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: never over the line to the point where it was offensive.
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: But I was pretty relentless, and I didn't give up.
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: Okay, you're pretty endearing, very endearing. Did any of these,
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: just in your history, did it ever go sideways? Do
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: you ever get in an argument with somebody? Do you
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: ever draw the line?
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: No. I've never really had to because, again, I am
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: usually a diffuser. I'm not an escalator. So I don't
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: recall ever really getting in a fight with anyone. If
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: I felt like somebody was crossing a boundary or doing something,
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: you know, I guess I would politely speak up and
• 23:10
  Speaker 2: figure out my own way of saying that, but I'm
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: very diplomatic. But, yeah, no, I don't remember ever really
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: having a fight with anyone.
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: Okay, so how long are you selling?
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: I am selling... At least 15 years. I mean, I'm
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: selling for a long time.
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: No, no, no. Before you get additional duties, you're starting
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: off selling for Premier. How long before you get an
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: additional duty or your job?
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: So I'm selling for Premier.
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: And one day I realized. So now I move into
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: the city. Finally, I'm not driving in from Staten Island anymore.
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: What happened to the boyfriend?
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: We broke up.
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: I mean, you went to college. Did you break up
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: with him right away or did he get a long run?
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: And we broke up somewhere mid-college.
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: Just because what was his life? You were going to college.
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: What was he doing?
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: He was a Staten Island. He was doing, like, I
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: don't know, landscaping or something, you know.
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: Okay. So he's— You move into Manhattan.
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: Continue. Yeah, I move into Manhattan, and I realize I
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: can't quite afford to eat. It's expensive there in Manhattan.
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: I'm not sure I really did the proper math on that.
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: Where are you living?
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: I'm living in Midtown.
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: I actually bought an apartment with the help of my
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: parents and with the help of one good stock tip.
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: And so I buy my first apartment, but I'm starving.
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: So I say to my.
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: Boss— How old are you when you buy an apartment?
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: I was 30 at that point.
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: Still impressive.
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: It's New York. Okay.
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: But again, I lived at home up until about then.
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: So I go straight from my parents' house to an apartment.
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: Well, it's one thing to live in an apartment, you know,
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: New York. The apartment's small as this room. Okay. But
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: to actually own something is fantastic. Pretty great. Okay, continue.
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: It was pretty awesome, and I was very proud of myself,
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: but then I had to actually pay for it.
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: And eat.
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: So I had this interesting role already where I was
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: kind of, I don't know, I was like, I developed
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: all these incredible relationships. So because it wasn't just iHeart or,
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: you know, Clear Channel people at the time, I knew
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: the head of Emmys. I knew the head of programming
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: for Enercom. I knew CBS. So I had developed all
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: these incredible radio relationships. And at the same time, because
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: I was going out and doing all these events, I
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: started developing all these record company relationships. So one of
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: the girls.
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: How do you end up doing.
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: But I'm working at Z100. So at any given time,
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: record labels are coming up with artists. And so I'm
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: also interacting with record labels. So I developed accidentally this
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: really interesting niche of I am straddling both radio and
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: records and I have relationships on both sides. A lot
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: of times people typically will have a lot of relationships
• 26:01
  Speaker 2: on one side and a lot of relationships on the
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: other side. So as I'm starving, one of the girls
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: that I was working with who was handling some of
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: the record label products said, decides she would rather be
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: an actress and she leaves. So I said to my boss,
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: please let me have that job because I know a
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: lot of the record company people too. And they're like, no,
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: but you're the number one salesperson at this point. And
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: we do not want to distract you. And I said,
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: that's great, but I need a second job. So it's
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: with you or someone else, please give me the chance.
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: And if it doesn't work, we can readjust. So they're like, okay, fine.
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: So I start every year or so, somebody leaves and
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: I'm like, I'll take that. I'll take that too.
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: Wait, wait, wait. But you're still doing your old stuff?
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: I'm still doing my original job. So how does one
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: person do all that work? Bob, this is a really
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: good question. But at any given point, by one point,
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: five people had left and I had somehow taken on
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: their duties. I will say I'm obviously a multitasker. But
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: I would figure out ways to kind of incorporate them
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: so they made sense. They might not make sense to
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: other people, but it made sense. I was able to
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: do them simultaneously.
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: Does your boss realize what you're doing? Oh, yeah. I mean,
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: do they compensate you? I used to have to pay
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: five people. Now I have one.
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: I wouldn't say they compensate me for five, but I
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: was definitely well taken care of. And so now, at
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: a certain point, I am— doing a lot more with MediaBase.
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: And the person that was running MediaBase decided he was
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: leaving for another job. And they're like, we have to
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: hire you a new boss. And I was like, OK.
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: So in the meantime, I have no boss. And they're
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: out interviewing, you know, big, powerful guys to take over.
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: Just to be clear, if you start in the late 90s,
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: what year are we in now?
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: Very early 2000s. And so, you know, at that time
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: and for most of my career, media base and BDS
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: were very much competitors. So I find myself in a
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: situation where one of the major labels is going to
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: not use media base anymore and they're just going to
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: use BDS. And I'm in a panic. So I and
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: I have no one else but me to do this.
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: So I go in and I'm trying to get a
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: meeting with the guy who's responsible for the contract and
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: I cannot get it. So I have one connection where
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: I'm calling this guy and he's not really picking up
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: the phone or not picking up all the time. And
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: I'm like, I'm calling his assistant every 10 minutes going,
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: you got to get me the meeting. And finally, like, oh, Lord,
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: you have wore us down. We're going to get you
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: this one meeting. So I prepare this gigantic deck. And
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: I go into this guy, a very powerful guy at
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: Capital at the time, and I present him. I give
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: him my deck and he takes it and throws it
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: across the room and says, neither God nor the devil
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: can help you now. I'm not taking your product. And
• 28:55
  Speaker 2: that's it. A normal person might have been like, oh,
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: this is a bummer and left. But I'm like, I can't.
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: I can't fail. I can't leave. Again, very relentless. So
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: I'm trying every angle I can. until I finally get
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: into a whole thing. I'm like, listen, I will sell
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: records out of the back of my car.
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: I will. I don't just go.
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: And finally, there's a moment where he goes, you know what, kid?
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: Here's the deal. If you can get the different promotions
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: people to agree that they'll each split what the fee is,
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: I will let you have your deal. I appreciate your relentlessness.
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: And so I called the promotions people at that time,
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: every one of them, one by one. And the last
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: one was one I actually kind of knew. And he's like,
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: you know what, kid, fine, I'll give you your deal.
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: And I ended up getting the deal. And at that point,
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: Rich Meyer, who was the inventor and overseeing MediaBase and Craig,
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: who they're like, you know what, why hire a boss
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: over her? She obviously got one of the hardest deals
• 29:54
  Speaker 2: done that her boss would have technically been getting done.
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: So we're going to give you the chance. and give
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: you the role, and that was my first major promotion,
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: taking over MediaBase and running that with Rich.
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: Okay. Can you remember how much money it was, like,
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: for a deal like that?
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: Oh, it was a couple hundred thousand dollars.
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: For the year?
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: For the year, yeah.
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: Okay, let's go back. To my memory, BDS started before MediaBase.
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: And BDS said, we have all this scientific stuff, and
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: we're going to give you an accurate reading. Whereas MediaBase said,
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: we have people, and they're going to tell us what's
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: really going on.
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: So.
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: What was the difference then?
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: The difference was, and that ended up being our asset.
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: So they made it a negative when it was absolutely
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: an asset. So again, my first big sale with my
• 30:48
  Speaker 2: now good friend Tom Pullman was being able to fax
• 30:52
  Speaker 2: them a log of media base versus BDS. Because a
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: lot of times the computer was detecting wrong things or
• 31:02
  Speaker 2: it wasn't detecting things, whereas the human was. was able
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: to go in and recognize what was wrong and or
• 31:08
  Speaker 2: pick up things that were missed by the computer. So
• 31:11
  Speaker 2: our edge was always the fact that we missed less
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: songs because we would have human experts that to this day,
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: I don't know how you find these people, but they
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: could identify a song in their format with five seconds
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: at any point during a song, not even necessarily the hook,
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: and they would know what that was. It was a
• 31:28
  Speaker 2: very rigorous test that they had to go through to
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: become One of those, you know.
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: How do they do it?
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: No, no, no.
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: Different question. Radio is broadcasting live. What is somebody recording
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: a tape and then someone sits in a booth very fast?
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: So we were a mix of technology. We just had
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: the additional layer of people. So where BDS was only
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: the technology, we were the technology with the added value
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: of the humans that would then fill in the hole.
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: So there was one great moment where Mariah Carey would
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: have missed a number one song had it been just
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: a BDS world. But we detected... a bunch of spins
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: that for some reason there was a technical error on
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: their side. So when that happened, that was our first
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: entree into Sony Music at the time. And we were
• 32:15
  Speaker 2: able to get the first label deal because of that.
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: And then on the radio station side, I was able
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: to send them the logs that we were compiling and say,
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: compare this to your actual programming log and let me
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: know what you see. Look at BDS, look at your log,
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: look at me, call me back. And almost every time
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: they'd be like, send me a contract. Because we were,
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: at that point, much more accurate because of the people.
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: Okay, just because I'm going to buy, not really.
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: Since it's computerized some level and then human beings, what
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: are the human beings literally doing to make it accurate?
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: They're listening. So we were taping the audio.
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: That's my question.
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: We would tape the audio, the computer, which, by the way,
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: very interesting fact that I don't know everyone knows, it
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: was Shazam technology before Shazam was actually an app.
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: So we had a partnership with BMI, and we were using...
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: Very early Shazam technology, and actually our training of that
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: technology was what led to the final Shazam product that
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: you now know today. But we had Shazam technology, so
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: the computer would pick up a lot of the songs,
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: and then you would have a human that would... look
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: at the log and see where there were spaces or
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: see where something was missed, then go back, listen to
• 33:32
  Speaker 2: the audio and say, okay, got it. This is what
• 33:35
  Speaker 2: song it is. Or know that it was a commercial
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: that was playing a song underneath, which again could trick
• 33:41
  Speaker 2: the computer, but we can hear that it was actually
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: a commercial.
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: Okay. I'm a record company and I only want to
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: buy one. Are they the same price?
• 33:53
  Speaker 2: They were actually more expensive at the time because we
• 33:55
  Speaker 2: were second into the market. So we were a little cheaper.
• 33:59
  Speaker 2: But as the years went, they became somewhat relatively priced.
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: From an outside observer, BDS is history. I mean, what
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: are the statistics?
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: The difference was that they were part of SoundScan. So
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: where they had an exclusive on the streaming and sale,
• 34:21
  Speaker 2: it started as sales data, but then streaming data. So
• 34:24
  Speaker 2: their edge was that they had the streaming and sales data.
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: And our edge was that radio actually preferred our product.
• 34:33
  Speaker 2: And from a relationship standpoint, we were able to really
• 34:37
  Speaker 2: deeply embed ourselves in radio. So it became a fractured
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: market because to some degree, the labels preferred BDS because
• 34:45
  Speaker 2: the sales departments liked that they obviously needed the sales information.
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: But radio and the promotions department preferred MediaBase because it
• 34:54
  Speaker 2: just was built and the reports and the way it
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: was structured just was more appealing to radio and the
• 35:00
  Speaker 2: promotion team. So for decades, it was a vicious battle
• 35:07
  Speaker 2: and everybody had both. And one way that it was
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: used was they would use MediaBase or BDS was used
• 35:13
  Speaker 2: to reconcile the other. So they would compare notes. So
• 35:16
  Speaker 2: if you were 10 spins away from a number one,
• 35:18
  Speaker 2: you would be combing through Both systems trying to figure
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: out if there was any kind of spin missed. But
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: to your point, at a certain point, everybody was like,
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: do we need two systems? And that was always, you know,
• 35:30
  Speaker 2: there was always that scary.
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: Okay. At this point in time, what is the market
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: share of MediaBase as opposed to BDS?
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: Equal, in a sense.
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: Still?
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Oh, now?
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: So now BDS ended up winding down their business.
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 35:43
  Speaker 2: And now we have 100% of the market share. Okay.
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: Because I stopped hearing about BDS. When did BDS wind
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: down their business?
• 35:49
  Speaker 2: About 20, during the pandemic, like right going into the pandemic.
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: Okay. This is a sales product. That's why it exists.
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: There's been so much consolidation. Has that affected opportunities in
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: business for you?
• 36:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Thankfully not, because you still have enough people programming
• 36:09
  Speaker 2: enough stations. It's an essential tool. So on the label side,
• 36:13
  Speaker 2: I joke it's the stock ticker of the music industry
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: because people are literally watching it by the minute to
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: see what their spins are. And at radio, it is
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: the most essential tool for, well, outside of whatever in-house
• 36:25
  Speaker 2: data they have. But from a programming perspective, it's very
• 36:29
  Speaker 2: important to programmers because they can use it to see
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: what their competitor is playing. to use it to negotiate
• 36:36
  Speaker 2: for shows or other things to show that they were
• 36:38
  Speaker 2: the first to support an artist. There's a lot of
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: uses for it, but it's an essential programming tool.
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: This is a left-field question, but I want to ask it.
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: For a long time, USA Today has printed the media-based numbers,
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: whereas this is a business, if you don't pay, we
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: don't give you anything, okay? So what is the status
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: of public media-based numbers at this point?
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: So right now, we're on every... Every industry trade outside
• 37:06
  Speaker 2: of Billboard publishes the media-based charts, and now we actually
• 37:09
  Speaker 2: do supply the data to Billboard. So our data is
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: in Billboard. It's just that it's used for their separate charts.
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: So media-based and Billboard have separate charts, separate panels. We
• 37:21
  Speaker 2: are separate entities, but our data now powers the Hot
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: 100 and the Billboard charts. Okay.
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: So we don't have a print partner for the media
• 37:32
  Speaker 2: base only charts?
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: But if I'm just a punter, okay, other than USA Today,
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: where can I see media base?
• 37:42
  Speaker 2: Hits Magazine.
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: Just trades. Anywhere other than trades. No.
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 37:48
  Speaker 2: Only in the system.
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: Right. But why not, if it's so easily accessed by
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: USA Today, why not have it? Because I was on
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: there earlier. You can get the top 40, okay? But
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: why isn't it accessible to everybody? Because people are interested.
• 38:07
  Speaker 2: We had, so All Access always had some, and you know,
• 38:14
  Speaker 2: we still have a ton of traffic to that site.
• 38:16
  Speaker 2: We acquired the site. So to your point, there was
• 38:18
  Speaker 2: a lot of just fans and consumers that want to
• 38:21
  Speaker 2: see the numbers. There was very small radio stations and
• 38:25
  Speaker 2: or label people that used it because it was good
• 38:27
  Speaker 2: enough for whatever they needed to see. But there was
• 38:31
  Speaker 2: never a print publication that made sense to partner with that.
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: Right. I was just thinking of website. Okay. So we
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: live in a very fractured environment. There's a formula for
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: the Hot 100. To what degree would they, let's just
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: call 40 tracks, make it simple. To what degree did
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: the 40 tracks they come up with align with the
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: radio play? Because you have that media base. How different
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: are they?
• 39:04
  Speaker 2: I wouldn't say they're dramatically different because radio plays is
• 39:10
  Speaker 2: a huge factor in the Hot 100. And so I
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: guess the difference would be you can get a number
• 39:19
  Speaker 2: one on the media-based pop chart or alternative chart, but
• 39:24
  Speaker 2: it's more difficult for everybody to get a number one
• 39:28
  Speaker 2: or a top 10 on the Hot 100. if you
• 39:30
  Speaker 2: aren't a massive streaming artist. So originally... I would say
• 39:35
  Speaker 2: earlier on, you wouldn't see as many country artists. Now,
• 39:38
  Speaker 2: I think you've had such a big transition with like
• 39:41
  Speaker 2: the Morgan Wallens and the Luke Combs and people that
• 39:43
  Speaker 2: have massive streaming numbers that now will get on and
• 39:46
  Speaker 2: Noah Kahn's and people like that. But at the time,
• 39:48
  Speaker 2: you would have Justin Bieber, Katy Perry, Taylor Swift, Mariah Carey.
• 39:52
  Speaker 2: You would have it was it would be a lot
• 39:53
  Speaker 2: of the big either pop and or multi format artists
• 39:57
  Speaker 2: that had massive streaming numbers. That would be on the
• 39:59
  Speaker 2: Billboard chart. But you could still have an artist get
• 40:02
  Speaker 2: a number one. They just didn't have those streaming numbers.
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: Okay. I'll look at the Hot 100, and I'll look
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: at the Spotify Top 50, and they don't tend to align.
• 40:15
  Speaker 2: Because streaming, it's a different formula, right?
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: Well, let me restate my question. Okay. You have media base.
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: That's what's actually being played. Right. No ifs, ands, or buts.
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: Let's use Spotify because you can see all the numbers.
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: That's why people are actually listening to. Yep. And they've
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: never been such separate worlds. Then all of a sudden
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: we have a chart, the Hot 100, that's like, well,
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: we have a chart. Well, it's a combination of all.
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: But maybe people aren't really, radio's not really playing and
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: people are, it's like, it seems archaic to me.
• 40:56
  Speaker 2: Again, it's the fact that it's a chart that's representative
• 41:01
  Speaker 2: of all. So I do understand your point, but I
• 41:04
  Speaker 2: think in fairness, you're measuring success across all platforms and
• 41:09
  Speaker 2: that's going to skew it because you're going to have
• 41:11
  Speaker 2: massive artists that are going to be on the top
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: of that Spotify chart, but not have a lot of
• 41:16
  Speaker 2: airplay and not have a lot of YouTube. You're going
• 41:18
  Speaker 2: to have On the radio charts, you're going to have
• 41:20
  Speaker 2: people that might have a lot of airplay and don't
• 41:23
  Speaker 2: have a lot of streaming. The Billboard Hot 100 is
• 41:25
  Speaker 2: really looking at all of those factors across the board.
• 41:28
  Speaker 2: So you need to succeed in all of those to
• 41:32
  Speaker 2: be on the top of that chart. And that's what
• 41:34
  Speaker 2: I think the differentiation would be and why it doesn't
• 41:36
  Speaker 2: totally match sometimes. OK.
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: It's well established that major stations' records take longer than
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: ever to happen. We have this Ella Langley Billboard chart
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: number one. Broke the record, OK? When it's going to
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: 23 weeks, is it already on the downside at radio?
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: Is it already history and it's just the late comers
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: and the fans are streaming it?
• 42:01
  Speaker 2: No, it's still very valuable at radio and still very healthy.
• 42:06
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's one of those unicorns that come once
• 42:11
  Speaker 2: in decades or in a generation that it The streaming,
• 42:15
  Speaker 2: the airplay, everything about it is just massive and sustaining.
• 42:19
  Speaker 2: So it's just a unicorn of a song.
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: Okay, I'm looking at the country chart before I come in.
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: Kenny Chesney was number one on the media base chart.
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: And I looked, he's single, and I looked at the
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: Spotify numbers that were positively anemic.
• 42:37
  Speaker 2: So I found... I feel like, in fairness to Kenny,
• 42:42
  Speaker 2: heritage and legacy artists don't always get the same playlisting
• 42:46
  Speaker 2: benefit that some of the newer artists do. So a
• 42:49
  Speaker 2: lot of times you will see some of those legacy
• 42:52
  Speaker 2: acts have and they're still very viable to us. So
• 42:55
  Speaker 2: where Kenny is a massive radio artist and still very viable,
• 42:58
  Speaker 2: he may not get the same playlisting reach or playlisting.
• 43:02
  Speaker 2: benefit that a Luke Combs might, who's a big streamer.
• 43:06
  Speaker 2: So you will see that. That's not, you know.
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: Okay. How about whether it be developing or superstar acts,
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: let's just assume for whatever reason, like Kenny, if radio
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: is going to go on it, radio is on it
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: right away. Let's use the Kenny Chesney example. Will we
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: find there's a delay and ultimately streaming will pick it
• 43:30
  Speaker 1: up or just certain acts don't stream?
• 43:33
  Speaker 2: Both, but certain acts just don't stream, right? It's really
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: dependent on their audience and where they're used to consuming
• 43:39
  Speaker 2: that artist's music. So you will definitely see a song
• 43:42
  Speaker 2: that starts with not a lot of streaming, but with
• 43:45
  Speaker 2: the radio play and with the other things that happen
• 43:48
  Speaker 2: around it, touring, you will see it absolutely build because
• 43:52
  Speaker 2: the on-demand and the search and share and all the
• 43:54
  Speaker 2: other factors will definitely be affected by the radio airplay
• 43:58
  Speaker 2: and by the touring. But some people just don't stream
• 44:01
  Speaker 2: as much.
• 44:02
  Speaker 1: Okay. So going back before your time, MTV launches. It's
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: its own entity. It now starts to happen. We start
• 44:10
  Speaker 1: to have top 40 stations on FM, which didn't exist
• 44:13
  Speaker 1: prior to that. Okay. Used to be... that radio was
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: most influential, and then they started playing with MTV. MTV
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: dictated the playlists, okay? We see acts, since it takes
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: so long for an act to break, because this is
• 44:29
  Speaker 1: someone who's not already, you know, been on the chart.
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: It feels that this may be out of your purview,
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: that the radio stations are looking at the streaming numbers
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: to see what they're playing. They....
• 44:45
  Speaker 2: Well, you're absolutely right in that streaming, sales, Shazam, ticket sales.
• 44:50
  Speaker 2: I mean, there's a lot of data I think radio
• 44:53
  Speaker 2: stations look at to try and get an indication of
• 44:55
  Speaker 2: what has heat. That being said, do they only blindly
• 45:00
  Speaker 2: follow the streaming numbers?
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: No.
• 45:03
  Speaker 2: And they will make their own decision. And I think
• 45:05
  Speaker 2: that it's a case-by-case basis. I think the cool thing
• 45:10
  Speaker 2: about radio is it's a little bit more of a
• 45:13
  Speaker 2: blend of art and science because without question, everybody looks
• 45:17
  Speaker 2: at the data. They look at streaming. They look at
• 45:18
  Speaker 2: all of that to help them identify what has the
• 45:22
  Speaker 2: most potential. But then you have like key programmers in
• 45:26
  Speaker 2: our world. Like we have format heads, Mark Adams, Rod Phillips,
• 45:29
  Speaker 2: you know, Lisa Worden, John Peake, like all the people
• 45:32
  Speaker 2: that run the formats, Dylan Sprague and Doc Winder. They
• 45:36
  Speaker 2: they also have curation specialty of knowing what works on
• 45:41
  Speaker 2: the radio, what works for our listeners. So there's always
• 45:44
  Speaker 2: a balance of we don't solely rely. We'll absolutely go
• 45:48
  Speaker 2: out on a Kenny Chesney song with anemic streaming because
• 45:51
  Speaker 2: Kenny's a great artist and we might know that sonically
• 45:54
  Speaker 2: our audience is going to love that song. But so
• 45:57
  Speaker 2: it's a balance of the two.
• 46:07
  Speaker 1: Okay. In terms of today, prior to MTV, there was
• 46:12
  Speaker 1: no other option on radio. And then, of course, MTV died.
• 46:16
  Speaker 1: Radio and the internet comes along. It's totally splintered. Anybody
• 46:20
  Speaker 1: can listen to any song at any time, essentially on YouTube.
• 46:24
  Speaker 1: You don't have to pay anything other than your time.
• 46:28
  Speaker 1: Talking about music radio, let me change the question to
• 46:32
  Speaker 1: begin with. How much of the consumption... You may not
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: know this, is over the air as opposed to listening
• 46:39
  Speaker 1: online of the iHeart stations.
• 46:43
  Speaker 2: It's still a majority of the listening is on the
• 46:47
  Speaker 2: terrestrial stations, and the percentage of streaming has continued to rise,
• 46:52
  Speaker 2: but it's still predominantly on air for us.
• 46:55
  Speaker 1: Okay. Who is the audience today? Who is listening?
• 47:01
  Speaker 2: You'd be surprised that it's more than you think. Well,
• 47:04
  Speaker 2: I hear from.
• 47:05
  Speaker 1: Radio people, that's what they tell me all day long.
• 47:08
  Speaker 1: So now you can tell me.
• 47:10
  Speaker 2: Everybody's still listening. And that's the truth. And that's according
• 47:13
  Speaker 2: to Nielsen, not according to me. you know, nine out
• 47:17
  Speaker 2: of 10 Americans are exposed to radio. I think what
• 47:20
  Speaker 2: the misconception is, is that radio is a brand, not
• 47:24
  Speaker 2: a transmitter. So maybe people aren't listening to a clock
• 47:28
  Speaker 2: radio on their desk and maybe, you know, they're, they're
• 47:32
  Speaker 2: not listening to a boom box. They're listening in their car,
• 47:35
  Speaker 2: but now they could be streaming it online. It's, They
• 47:38
  Speaker 2: could be listening to it in PlayStation where we're integrated.
• 47:41
  Speaker 2: It could be on tablets. One of the biggest, you know,
• 47:45
  Speaker 2: things for Alexa, one of the biggest commands is people
• 47:48
  Speaker 2: ask to hear their favorite radio station on Alexa. So
• 47:51
  Speaker 2: I think people kind of sometimes will say, I'm not
• 47:55
  Speaker 2: listening to radio, but they actually are. They're just listening
• 47:58
  Speaker 2: to it in a different place in a different way
• 48:00
  Speaker 2: than traditional radio is assumed to be. And that's where
• 48:05
  Speaker 2: some of the misconception is. But when you think about it, people,
• 48:09
  Speaker 2: even young people, they're in the car with their friends,
• 48:11
  Speaker 2: they're in the car with their family, they're in stores, they're,
• 48:14
  Speaker 2: you know, in PlayStations, they're in different places. They're being
• 48:17
  Speaker 2: exposed to radio and they're listening to it. One of
• 48:20
  Speaker 2: the interesting things recently was we did a deal with
• 48:23
  Speaker 2: Netflix for some of our podcasts. The number one 40%
• 48:27
  Speaker 2: of the downloads and consumption of that on Netflix is
• 48:32
  Speaker 2: Charlemagne the God. So here he is having a big
• 48:34
  Speaker 2: radio show. You put him on Netflix, the audience is
• 48:38
  Speaker 2: following there.
• 48:39
  Speaker 1: I'm familiar with Charlemagne. I have enlisted on Netflix. Is
• 48:42
  Speaker 1: the identical product? Yeah. Okay.
• 48:45
  Speaker 2: So the point is we have done a good job
• 48:49
  Speaker 2: of evolving so that we're allowing people to consume our
• 48:52
  Speaker 2: content where they want to as opposed to where we traditionally–
• 48:57
  Speaker 2: Had them listen. You know, it doesn't have to just
• 48:59
  Speaker 2: be a radio anymore, right? We've expanded all the places
• 49:02
  Speaker 2: where you can get access to our content.
• 49:04
  Speaker 1: Media base does all the formats, even more than some
• 49:08
  Speaker 1: people would think even exist. Yep. I come to you
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: and I have a developing thrash metal act. And I
• 49:19
  Speaker 1: come to you and I say... I'd like to get
• 49:20
  Speaker 1: a brand. Let's just say for the sake of discussion,
• 49:23
  Speaker 1: just really good thrash metal. Okay. Are you going to say,
• 49:27
  Speaker 1: you know, it sounds great, but it's too niche. Forget
• 49:31
  Speaker 1: the type of music that people, it's just not going
• 49:34
  Speaker 1: to reach enough people that a brand is going to
• 49:37
  Speaker 1: be interested. Is that a factor?
• 49:40
  Speaker 2: Not necessarily, because believe it or not, there's probably that
• 49:43
  Speaker 2: is less often the kind I'm dealing with. But I
• 49:47
  Speaker 2: think it's like dating. There's someone for everyone. There's still
• 49:51
  Speaker 2: a product and there's still somebody that probably wants to
• 49:54
  Speaker 2: reach that heavy metal audience. My biggest pet peeve right
• 49:58
  Speaker 2: now is I feel like rock as a genre has
• 50:01
  Speaker 2: not gotten the attention and the love that it should.
• 50:04
  Speaker 2: If you look around the world at the rock festivals
• 50:08
  Speaker 2: where there's 100,000 people. You look at the Danny Wimmer festivals.
• 50:12
  Speaker 2: The rock festivals and the rock audience is massive, and
• 50:15
  Speaker 2: I don't feel the audience is And the acts get
• 50:19
  Speaker 2: quite the same love and, you know, acknowledgement as they
• 50:24
  Speaker 2: should considering how massive of an audience that is.
• 50:27
  Speaker 1: Okay. Let's stay here for a second. A great percentage
• 50:31
  Speaker 1: of the acts are what we would call heritage acts. So, traditionally,
• 50:36
  Speaker 1: rock is on hot whatever.
• 50:41
  Speaker 2: Well, you have active rock. Active rock.
• 50:43
  Speaker 1: That's what I meant to say. Spaced out. Who are
• 50:48
  Speaker 1: the acts on active rock who have not already broken big?
• 50:53
  Speaker 1: We're not talking Metallica, whatever. Who are.
• 50:58
  Speaker 1: Underrepresented, they're just not exposed enough. They're seen as being
• 51:02
  Speaker 1: in a ghetto because in order for rock to grow,
• 51:05
  Speaker 1: you have to have acts that appeal to a larger audience.
• 51:09
  Speaker 1: So who might some of those acts be?
• 51:11
  Speaker 2: Well, I'm saying that, you know, even like the award shows, right,
• 51:14
  Speaker 2: they don't always get, you know, we see the rock
• 51:16
  Speaker 2: performances of the rock categories represented. You know, I think
• 51:22
  Speaker 2: what's interesting about rock is that there is a much
• 51:25
  Speaker 2: wider audience than anyone even expects to. So I think
• 51:30
  Speaker 2: that even in your mind, rock is appealing to a
• 51:34
  Speaker 2: very specific group. And I think with the Internet, with
• 51:37
  Speaker 2: all the other places that people have discovered this music, radio, obviously,
• 51:41
  Speaker 2: there's a younger generation that are discovering all these bands.
• 51:44
  Speaker 2: And some of these bands are having a massive resurgence,
• 51:47
  Speaker 2: you know.
• 51:48
  Speaker 1: The deftones. I'm a rock fan. And, you know, I'm
• 51:52
  Speaker 1: a fan of those acts. Because, you know, we could
• 51:56
  Speaker 1: talk about. Let's use Choose in Texas. Okay. That's not
• 52:01
  Speaker 1: far from a rock song. Just got a couple of
• 52:04
  Speaker 1: affectations that turned it into country. So if we go
• 52:07
  Speaker 1: to 70s rock, which gets a bad name except for Zeppelin. Okay,
• 52:12
  Speaker 1: they have verses. They have chorus. They have bridge. They
• 52:16
  Speaker 1: have lyrics you can understand. And I'll go on active rock.
• 52:20
  Speaker 1: That's not what they're selling. In addition, the acts have
• 52:25
  Speaker 1: become caricatures of themselves. I want to see a hard
• 52:29
  Speaker 1: rock act looks like nerds without tattoos. It's such an affect. Oh,
• 52:34
  Speaker 1: you got the tattoos. You got the beard. You got whatever.
• 52:37
  Speaker 1: It's like, you know, you're living in like in the past.
• 52:41
  Speaker 1: You know, I'm not talking about Radio I Heart. I'm
• 52:44
  Speaker 1: just talking about rock in general. It's too— I' ll give you— okay.
• 52:50
  Speaker 1: I remember when Led Zeppelin was considered at the edge.
• 52:54
  Speaker 1: I'm talking 1969, but what I remember, okay? And then— and
• 52:59
  Speaker 1: it was called heavy metal. Then Black Sabbath. That was
• 53:03
  Speaker 1: one step beyond.
• 53:04
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 53:05
  Speaker 1: Now, the paragon is Metallica. People take Metallica, you know,
• 53:11
  Speaker 1: stuff on the Black Album, there's certain stuff, you know,
• 53:14
  Speaker 1: but generally speaking, and they're the biggest in that world,
• 53:17
  Speaker 1: that music is not for everybody. Okay? Right. And then
• 53:21
  Speaker 1: you have acts that are playing off of that, and
• 53:24
  Speaker 1: then you say, you have a world, but the rest
• 53:29
  Speaker 1: of the world does not care to listen to that. So,
• 53:34
  Speaker 1: I think, In terms of rock, you know, if there
• 53:39
  Speaker 1: was a Tom Petty today, be gigantic. Okay?
• 53:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 53:44
  Speaker 1: It's just I can't point to anybody like that. And so, therefore—
• 53:48
  Speaker 1: I think.
• 53:50
  Speaker 2: You're starting to see more crossover, though, you know, than
• 53:54
  Speaker 2: you have in the past. And— I think it is also,
• 53:59
  Speaker 2: I agree, and rock is a broad term.
• 54:02
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 54:02
  Speaker 2: Because you have death metal, you have so many different
• 54:05
  Speaker 2: versions of it. But there are bands that are... way
• 54:08
  Speaker 2: more accessible, right? Like Foo Fighters obviously had crossover hits.
• 54:13
  Speaker 2: A Nickelback can be on active rock as well as
• 54:16
  Speaker 2: how they seem pop.
• 54:18
  Speaker 1: But those are 30-year-old acts.
• 54:19
  Speaker 2: Right. Again, Shinedown is on six formats right now, right?
• 54:23
  Speaker 1: I agree, but they've been around for a long time.
• 54:25
  Speaker 2: But there's a new audience discovering all these bands and
• 54:29
  Speaker 2: engaging with them. So if we go back to the
• 54:31
  Speaker 2: original question, which was really Brands, All I was trying
• 54:35
  Speaker 2: to say is, I agree with what you're saying. Sometimes,
• 54:38
  Speaker 2: I don't know that any format or any one artist
• 54:41
  Speaker 2: is for everybody, right? But I do think there's a massive,
• 54:46
  Speaker 2: massive population of rock fans out there that some brand...
• 54:50
  Speaker 2: would benefit from that because that was our original point
• 54:53
  Speaker 2: in all this. Oh, okay, okay.
• 54:54
  Speaker 1: I agree with you.
• 54:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so what I was saying is there's someone for everyone.
• 54:58
  Speaker 2: I was talking from the music.
• 54:59
  Speaker 1: In terms of brand thing, absolutely.
• 55:01
  Speaker 2: That's where I was going.
• 55:02
  Speaker 1: But I remember when Redneck Woman was a hit, And
• 55:05
  Speaker 1: the woman who sang it grew up somewhere in the Midwest,
• 55:08
  Speaker 1: Missouri or something like that. So, yeah, I grew up
• 55:10
  Speaker 1: with a jukebox. Had ACDC, you shook me all night long.
• 55:14
  Speaker 1: And you say, because for me, Chris Stapleton, that's rock.
• 55:18
  Speaker 1: And he's like the most revered guy in country. And
• 55:21
  Speaker 1: in addition, there are a lot of.
• 55:23
  Speaker 2: A lot of country sounds like rock.
• 55:24
  Speaker 1: Exactly.
• 55:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 55:25
  Speaker 1: Exactly. It is rock. I remember going to see Keith Urban. God,
• 55:30
  Speaker 1: time flies by. The end of the first decade of this-
• 55:34
  Speaker 1: He's got three guitars and a bass on stage.
• 55:36
  Speaker 2: He's got more guitars than the rock acts. 100%.
• 55:40
  Speaker 1: And if you were there, you would go, I get it.
• 55:43
  Speaker 1: It's like, so, you know, that.
• 55:45
  Speaker 2: Benson Boone is rock.
• 55:48
  Speaker 1: Excuse me?
• 55:49
  Speaker 2: Benson Boone could be rock. You know, Olivia Rodrigo has
• 55:51
  Speaker 2: stuff that sounds rock. Like, that's the thing.
• 55:54
  Speaker 1: Olivia Rodrigo, that's... It's different. That is very pop.
• 55:59
  Speaker 2: It's pop, but some of those songs have the guitar
• 56:03
  Speaker 2: and have the edge. And again, it's not hard metal, but.
• 56:06
  Speaker 1: I'm saying- And listen, you know, listening to Chris Stapleton,
• 56:09
  Speaker 1: he fits right in on rock radio in the 70s.
• 56:12
  Speaker 1: I mean, the guy, other than wearing a hat, it's
• 56:16
  Speaker 1: like right there.
• 56:17
  Speaker 2: And that's the whole point of music today is that
• 56:19
  Speaker 2: the genre walls have been coming down. So where we
• 56:22
  Speaker 2: traditionally all lived in a world where- you were rock,
• 56:26
  Speaker 2: you were country, you were pop, you were whatever, stay
• 56:29
  Speaker 2: in your lane. I feel like the consumer doesn't necessarily
• 56:32
  Speaker 2: consume that way, nor did they probably ever as much,
• 56:35
  Speaker 2: but they have a lot of choices now. So people
• 56:37
  Speaker 2: have broad musical tastes. So someone who loves country could
• 56:41
  Speaker 2: also love pop, could also love alt. So those artists
• 56:45
  Speaker 2: like a Morgan Wallen crossing over to pop, that might
• 56:48
  Speaker 2: not have happened 20 years ago, but now those kinds
• 56:53
  Speaker 2: of situations open up the pathway for other artists to
• 56:56
  Speaker 2: then start crossing into newer genres that traditionally they wouldn't
• 56:59
  Speaker 2: have necessarily done in the past. And I think that's
• 57:02
  Speaker 2: actually good.
• 57:03
  Speaker 1: Well, I agree with everything you said. The bug up
• 57:05
  Speaker 1: I have up my ass is that media, I'm not
• 57:09
  Speaker 1: talking media, but I'm talking about newspapers, TV, they have
• 57:13
  Speaker 1: not caught up with the change Dating myself again, there
• 57:16
  Speaker 1: was a bifurcation at the end of 60s into the 70s, FM, AM,
• 57:20
  Speaker 1: completely different. Occasionally songs would crossover. MTV comes in and
• 57:24
  Speaker 1: it's a monoculture. Media to this day thinks it's a monoculture, okay?
• 57:31
  Speaker 1: They'll promote Miley Cyrus. I remember she played the Grammys.
• 57:35
  Speaker 1: They say, everybody in America. It wasn't part of, it
• 57:38
  Speaker 1: was whatever song it was. Everybody. No, everybody doesn't. I'm
• 57:43
  Speaker 1: not criticizing you for that. Right. But those are nowhere
• 57:48
  Speaker 1: near as big as it once were. And all the
• 57:50
  Speaker 1: tracks you're talking about, the rock acts, whatever, they have
• 57:52
  Speaker 1: huge audiences. But, oh, we're breaking it down. It's... You know,
• 57:58
  Speaker 1: it's a disconnect. Let's go back in the narrative. Now
• 58:01
  Speaker 1: you take over media base. What does that look like?
• 58:06
  Speaker 2: So I was doing all of the record label deals.
• 58:10
  Speaker 2: And in addition to that, I still... I think we're
• 58:13
  Speaker 2: still at the point where I didn't give up some
• 58:15
  Speaker 2: of those other jobs. So I was still doing all
• 58:18
  Speaker 2: the deals with the radio stations as well. So I
• 58:21
  Speaker 2: focused primarily more on media-based at this point than some
• 58:25
  Speaker 2: of the other syndicated shows that I was doing. But
• 58:28
  Speaker 2: it meant overseeing all the sales of that product as
• 58:31
  Speaker 2: well as Rate the Music and some of the other
• 58:33
  Speaker 2: music products we had. So I became very focused on
• 58:37
  Speaker 2: the sales to record labels and radio stations of all
• 58:39
  Speaker 2: the media-based products that were under that umbrella.
• 58:43
  Speaker 1: Okay. Today, how many different media-based products are there?
• 58:47
  Speaker 2: Well, you do have media-based. You have Rate the Music.
• 58:51
  Speaker 2: We have Test All Media. And then we now represent
• 58:57
  Speaker 2: Luminate to radio stations, even though that's not under our umbrella.
• 59:01
  Speaker 1: Okay, let's go back. There's regular media-based Rate the Music.
• 59:05
  Speaker 1: What is that?
• 59:06
  Speaker 2: Well, Rate the Music and Test on media are now
• 59:07
  Speaker 2: the same thing, but that was pre-testing of music.
• 59:10
  Speaker 1: Okay. Not everybody's going to be that sophisticated.
• 59:13
  Speaker 2: Yep.
• 59:15
  Speaker 1: How is it actually done?
• 59:17
  Speaker 2: So we have a database of music fans that listen
• 59:22
  Speaker 2: to the music, and then there's a very comprehensive set
• 59:25
  Speaker 2: of questions that and surveys that they answer about the song.
• 59:30
  Speaker 2: It was a much bigger thing back in the day
• 59:33
  Speaker 2: to pre-test before music came out. And then with the internet,
• 59:38
  Speaker 2: it's been a little harder because people obviously were concerned
• 59:41
  Speaker 2: about piracy or things leaking, but it's still a very
• 59:45
  Speaker 2: viable business. Less so... you would probably not get a
• 59:49
  Speaker 2: tale or a massive artist wanting to pre-test their songs just, again,
• 59:54
  Speaker 2: for security purposes. But it's a fantastic tool for people
• 59:58
  Speaker 2: if they want to find out whether a song is
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 2: viable to cross to a different format, if a new
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 2: artist has a hit potential. So there's a lot of it.
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 2: You could also use it for perceptual research. So there's
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 2: a lot of different ways you could use the system.
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 2: And it's basically asking an audience of music fans their
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 2: opinion on music Okay.
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 1: I'm one of the raters. You send it to me
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 1: and I do this at home and you pay, what, $ 1?
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 1: Usually they pay something.
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 2: We don't even pay anything. Okay.
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 2: Again, these were all voluntary.
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 1: No, no. It's just a legal issue. It's not important. Okay.
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 1: So what were the other products?
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 2: So, and Luminate now. So now it's really media-based Luminate
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 2: and Tesla Media.
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 1: So in this time when you're given this title, which
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 1: is approximately when Oh, boy.
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 2: So early 2000s.
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 1: Okay. From then to today, media based the product. How
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 1: has that changed, if at all?
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 2: Well, obviously, it started as floppy disk. It went to 24-7.
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 2: And now, you know, we've been working on it. So
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 2: it's gone through advancements of the look of the product,
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 2: the different reports you can pull. Obviously, we went from
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 2: being on floppy disk to by the second, you know,
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 2: it's real time. So it's evolved over the years. And
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 2: what I'm excited about now is, like, we have a
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 2: lot of great plans to continue to evolve the product. So.
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 1: To what degree can you tell us that or give
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 1: us concepts?
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 2: I mean, I think broadening the type of information that
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 2: we provide in the system or the reports that you
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 2: can pull.
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 1: Just make that a little more concrete.
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 2: Being, I guess, creating new reports in ways that people
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 2: are going to, both on the radio and record side,
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 2: will be able to even zone in more on what
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 2: they want to see. You know, if I'm a record person,
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 2: there might be heat maps or different things that I'm
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 2: going to want to see. So just, that's not a
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 2: literal specific, but just making sure that the product is
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 2: as comprehensive as.
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 1: It can be.
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 1: You've been doing this a long time. I want to
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 1: know how the customers have changed. Let's start with radio.
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 1: How has the customer changed? barely at all.
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 2: I think I have the same customers for the most
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 2: part because it's all the only thing that's changed is
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 2: the ownership of those customers. So you still have all
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 2: the same people using it. But if Enercom is now
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 2: an Odyssey station where I originally had an Enercom deal,
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 2: now it's just an Odyssey deal. So the landscape on
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 2: either side, frankly, has not changed very much. It's the same.
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 2: You have The majors, I guess on the label side,
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 2: you know, you have a lot more independent labels now
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 2: that have popped up or, you know, one of the
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 2: majors or somebody has gone away and then it pops
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 2: up somewhere else as an independent company. So it's diversified
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 2: a little bit, but the main three or four, you know,
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 2: and the main radio groups all are pretty consistent.
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 1: Okay, let's leave radio side now and talk about the labels.
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 1: Let's say... This is not a perfect example. Like Big
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 1: Loud has Morgan Wall and other things. I don't want
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 1: to use them specifically, whatever. Would a company of that
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 1: size have their own media-based deal? Oh, of course.
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 2: Absolutely. That's why I'm saying everyone from the biggest labels
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 2: to one person who has one artist in one format
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 2: has media-based.
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 1: So if I'm one person and I have one artist,
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 1: how do you charge me?
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 2: We have a sliding scale, so obviously you're not going
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 2: to pay what Universal Music Group is paying.
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 1: Let's assume I'm sitting at home and I want to
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 1: have a media-based account. What's the least I can pay
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 1: to get in?
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 2: You know, a couple hundred.
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 1: A couple hundred a year.
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 2: A couple hundred a month.
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 1: That's what I thought. Okay, a couple hundred a month.
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 2: And I don't even want to say that as an exact—
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 2: I understand. We're just putting a ballpark on it.
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 1: The product I buy, is it the same product that
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 1: the people are paying $ 100K for? Yeah. Okay, so it's
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 1: not like it's a limited product. Okay, there are three
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 1: major label groups. Not only have they sliced the number
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 1: of labels, they've sliced the number of people working there.
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 2: Okay?
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 1: So, since you were in business with them all day long,
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 1: What is your perception of how the labels have evolved
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 1: over this time?
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 2: I think, man, I think they've evolved in a lot
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 2: of different ways. One, in how they market the artists.
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 2: I think they've evolved in how they discover artists. They've
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 2: evolved in how they market and build the brands of
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 2: those artists. The data for them has definitely evolved and
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 2: the systems that they look at have evolved. And I
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 2: think that to some degree, they put their resources in
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 2: different places. So I think, you know, they're very digital
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 2: heavy in some cases. So I think they've just evolved
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 2: with the way the industry has evolved, right?
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 1: Okay, from my perception... They're putting out fewer... This is reality.
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 1: They're putting out fewer records in fewer genres, hoping for
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 1: great success. You know, because of the opportunity cost, they
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 1: don't want to just have singles and doubles. Therefore... What's it...
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 1: Let's leave the media base side. Let's go brand side. Okay.
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 1: You're dealing with a major label. They might have a
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 1: couple of labels underneath that. Are they're saying, these are
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 1: three acts. We want these acts, you know, hit the
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 1: Spotify top 50. How do we do that? Or do
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 1: they sometimes say, well, we have this act. It doesn't
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 1: really fit in. Does that even come up?
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 2: To me or to a brand? I....
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 1: Does that come up where they're talking to iHeart, whether
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 1: it be you or whoever, saying, we would like a
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 1: brand deal on this act?
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah. I mean, again, we actually are working with
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 2: a band right now, JYT. That's a new boy band.
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 2: And from day one of their inception, before they even started,
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 2: have an official hit. And they just got a massive
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 2: brand deal with The Gap, which is an incredible example
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 2: of doing something like that. But a lot of times
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 2: we'll talk very early on with an act. And if
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 2: we feel they have the potential, we're also excited to
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 2: get behind them and help amplify that and help them
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 2: find that brand partnership because that's just good for everybody.
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 1: So Well, Jay, you know, the boy band has unbelievable
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 1: headroom if it breaks. Right. There are certain other acts
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 1: without that amount of headroom. Okay. Are labels pitching those
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 1: or they want to go with the moonshot acts? I
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 1: think both.
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 2: I mean, if they're on a label and they're a priority,
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 2: you'll see both. I mean, I think there's no way
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 2: of saying there's one size fits all in terms of
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 2: how much they care about you know, this artist over
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 2: here versus, again, their massive A-list artist. But in a
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 2: lot of cases, especially if it's a new and developing artist,
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 2: I think they're very interested and very aggressive about wanting
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 2: to find opportunities because I think the brand deals are
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 2: now a massive part of how bands get marketing and
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 2: get attention. I think that's become the great sweet spot
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 2: of partnership here because you're taking, you know.
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 2: A band and their music. You're taking the reach and
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 2: scale of an iHeart or a radio group that's able
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 2: to really put something out to the masses. And then
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 2: you've got the budget that a brand is bringing in
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 2: to buy advertising and to buy amplification around that on
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 2: our platform. So it really becomes a win-win-win for everybody.
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 2: So it's a great opportunity for emerging artists if they
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 2: can get a brand deal because that's a great marketing
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 2: look for them.
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 1: You're the national person, so you oversee everything. How many
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 1: brand deals are going on at one time?
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 2: I do anywhere from 150 plus a year, believe it
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 2: or not. But they can range.
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 2: It could be anything from playing Taco Bell's Christmas party
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 2: to a 23-show seven-city tour for Verizon to an ambassadorship
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 2: for a new mascara that's launching for L'Oreal. I mean,
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 2: it runs the gamut of what the actual deal is,
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 2: but I do a ton of them.
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 1: Okay. Let's say I'm a label.
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 1: I come to you with an act. You're going to
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 1: hook me up with a brand. In that, is it
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 1: ever just radio or does it always encompass other things?
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 2: Well, it's not always the labels coming to us with
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 2: the artist, right? So sometimes that's happening. More often in
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 2: my case, it's the brand coming to us wanting to
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 2: partner with with an artist. And then it's me going
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 2: to the label or the manager or the agency.
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 1: Okay. Just so I know, you're obviously hooked up with iHeart.
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 1: But there are other people in this business who do that. Right.
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 1: Even independent people.
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 2: Yep.
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 1: What is the market share of iHeart in that world?
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 2: We have a big market share. We do a lot
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 2: of deals. But the good news is the way we
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 2: structure our deals, we're very collaborative with everyone else. So
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 2: at any given time, I'm working with CAA. I'm working
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 2: with WME. I'm working with one of the record labels.
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 2: I'm working with the management team. We're not commissioning on that.
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 2: So we're actually friend. We're not competitor. So it For us,
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 2: it's bringing really great opportunities to their artists. So people
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 2: are very receptive to that and we have great relationships
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 2: with a lot of the other people who do this
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 2: kind of stuff.
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 1: Okay. So let's just say, hypothetically, you make a deal.
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 1: How does iHeart get paid?
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 2: A lot of times those deals involve advertising and amplification.
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 2: So for us, the upside is being able to do
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 2: a really cool multi-platform deal that involves advertising and the brand,
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 2: you know.
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 1: So let's assume you make a deal. You got to
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 1: Company with money and an act that's going.
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 2: Yep.
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 1: What about airplay? Are they going to get any airplay
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 1: as part of this deal?
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 2: No. Not because of the deal. Right, right, right.
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 1: That's what I mean. Okay. So let's say I'm going
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 1: to make a deal, whatever, just to make it simple.
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 1: And whatever the deal is, it's going to be radio focused.
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 1: They're going to pay to get what?
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 2: So a lot of times a brand is coming in
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 2: and they want, it might be we're doing a custom event.
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 2: So they're going to be able to do a custom
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 2: event with a few hundred people that are going to,
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 2: you know, exclusively be able to attend. The artist is
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 2: going to do social posts for them. You know, if
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 2: it's a deeper integration, it could be a get ready
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 2: with me video for a beauty product. It could be,
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 2: I love this new, you know, energy drink.
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 1: What we're learning is this may or may not have
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 1: anything to do with radio.
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 2: It, And what it has to do with radio is
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 2: that we're a fantastic amplification for a program like this
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 2: because radio sits uniquely in the middle. I've seen a
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 2: lot of brand partnerships that happen. It's like if a
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 2: tree falls in the forest and nobody hears it, did
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 2: it actually happen? So they'll do a direct deal with
• 1:11:25
  Speaker 2: an artist, but they're relying only on the artist's socials
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 2: or fan base. And in those cases, a lot of
• 1:11:32
  Speaker 2: times it doesn't necessarily get as big of a luck.
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 1: Not always. Let's just kind of get the spectrum. theoretically,
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 1: you could hook an act up for a private. Right.
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 1: And that's it. So that's got... There's not any amplification there. No. Okay.
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 1: Let's just assume it's a public event. Will the brand...
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 1: Is part of the deal they're buying advertising? They're buying mentions?
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 1: What are they actually buying from you?
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 2: Usually advertising, digital. It could be podcasting. I mean, it
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 2: really runs the gamut. So the win-win becomes if they
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 2: do a deal with us and they amplify on our platforms.
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 2: If I'm an artist, usually that's really good extra promotion
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 2: for my song, my tour, my whatever it is that
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 2: they want promotion for. versus just getting a paycheck and
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 2: not getting the amplification on a platform that's really important
• 1:12:30
  Speaker 2: to their career and also where a lot of their
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 2: fan base lives. So it's just, it becomes a win-win-win
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 2: for everybody, really.
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 1: Let's just assume it's an act and there's going to
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 1: be advertising. What would that advertising sound like?
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 2: Depends on what it is.
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 1: I mean, would it, It could.
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 2: Be as simple as we're doing a contest for people
• 1:12:51
  Speaker 2: to win their way into this exclusive show. It could be, hi,
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 2: I'm Sabrina Carpenter and I love L'Oreal makeup and I
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 2: wear it every day. And it's not always just radio.
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 2: A lot of times it'll be radio, it'll be digital,
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 2: it'll be video. The other thing about radio that people
• 1:13:10
  Speaker 2: don't always give us credit for is we actually touch
• 1:13:13
  Speaker 2: every possible media platform that there is. So yes, we
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 2: have the terrestrial stations, but we have streaming on iHeart.
• 1:13:20
  Speaker 2: We do video content. We have podcasting. We now have
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 2: TV partnerships. There's literally no media we don't touch.
• 1:13:28
  Speaker 1: Okay, just because you're there. TV partnerships and video, play
• 1:13:33
  Speaker 1: those out so I know what they are.
• 1:13:36
  Speaker 2: John Frieda hair care stories. It might be an editorial
• 1:13:39
  Speaker 2: series where we do a video series on an artist's
• 1:13:43
  Speaker 2: hair journey. And they talk about, you know, it was
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 2: so hard growing up with curly hair and I wanted
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 2: straight hair. And, you know, and the John Frieda products
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 2: are integrated within that and becomes a video series versus
• 1:13:55
  Speaker 2: just a radio spot.
• 1:13:57
  Speaker 1: You have the videos. Where are those posted?
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 2: It could be YouTube. It could be on the iHeart sites.
• 1:14:03
  Speaker 2: It could be on the brands.
• 1:14:05
  Speaker 1: Oh, no, it could.
• 1:14:06
  Speaker 2: It just depends. There's no one answer.
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 1: And when you're talking TV, you mean ads on TV?
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 2: It could be the iHeart Radio Music Festival that's on TV,
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 2: and there could be a brand partnership that's integrated into that. So,
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 2: you know, and Netflix, I was saying like we have
• 1:14:22
  Speaker 2: the Netflix deal, right? So there's no medium we don't
• 1:14:26
  Speaker 2: actually touch in some way or have you know, content on.
• 1:14:30
  Speaker 2: So people think of us as radio only and terrestrial radio,
• 1:14:34
  Speaker 2: but we're everywhere.
• 1:14:43
  Speaker 1: We've made a deal.
• 1:14:45
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 1:14:46
  Speaker 1: You're Ms. Data. Yep. I pay my $ 1 million. The
• 1:14:51
  Speaker 1: whole thing plays. 20 years ago, it was the Wild West.
• 1:14:56
  Speaker 1: You want to sponsor a tour, we'd show you. And
• 1:14:58
  Speaker 1: then everybody pulls back. They say, we don't know what
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 1: we're getting for the money. So if I'm giving you
• 1:15:04
  Speaker 1: the money, what data do you give me back that
• 1:15:06
  Speaker 1: it worked?
• 1:15:07
  Speaker 2: We have, and I will say some of that is
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 2: not totally my purview, but we have tons of data.
• 1:15:14
  Speaker 2: We have a whole other department as it relates to that,
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 2: that can absolutely show brand lift. brand affinity and how
• 1:15:22
  Speaker 2: it was affected, social numbers, obviously, view counts. It really
• 1:15:26
  Speaker 2: depends on what the activation was, but we can give
• 1:15:29
  Speaker 2: them a great look at here's how many people consumed
• 1:15:32
  Speaker 2: it on what platforms and how those people are talking
• 1:15:36
  Speaker 2: about your product. And are they more familiar with your
• 1:15:38
  Speaker 2: product now than they were before? So there's just a
• 1:15:41
  Speaker 2: lot of research we could do that's both my data
• 1:15:44
  Speaker 2: focused as well as like consumer data focused. focus that'll
• 1:15:47
  Speaker 2: show what the benefit was.
• 1:15:49
  Speaker 1: Okay. Is it possible that we do the deal and
• 1:15:54
  Speaker 1: the data does not show big impact, big lift?
• 1:15:59
  Speaker 2: I guess it's always possible that not everything's a home run, right? Okay.
• 1:16:03
  Speaker 1: My question is, because it's always possible.
• 1:16:05
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 1:16:06
  Speaker 1: But since you've been doing it so much... Are most
• 1:16:10
  Speaker 1: people happy?
• 1:16:11
  Speaker 2: I think so because, again, that goes way back to why,
• 1:16:15
  Speaker 2: you know, we created this unique department. So I obviously
• 1:16:19
  Speaker 2: have the media-based job, but the global music marketing side,
• 1:16:22
  Speaker 2: we basically function as an in-house music marketing agency.
• 1:16:26
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:16:26
  Speaker 2: So, you know, again, because we have the data and
• 1:16:30
  Speaker 2: the relationships, I always, when I'm talking to a brand,
• 1:16:32
  Speaker 2: I say we have a lot of data. We have
• 1:16:35
  Speaker 2: the tangible data, which is what... Where are they performing best?
• 1:16:42
  Speaker 2: Do they sell tickets? Do they have good social engagement?
• 1:16:45
  Speaker 2: What's their airplay? What's their sales?
• 1:16:46
  Speaker 1: All that.
• 1:16:47
  Speaker 2: But then you have the intangible data, which is, are
• 1:16:50
  Speaker 2: they good to work with? Do they really like this product?
• 1:16:53
  Speaker 2: And are they going to really step up and be
• 1:16:55
  Speaker 2: excited to be part of it? Are they about to
• 1:16:57
  Speaker 2: have a scandal come out? Is their next song actually
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 2: not going to be so great? And even though they're
• 1:17:01
  Speaker 2: a big name, they may not be the best choice
• 1:17:03
  Speaker 2: for you. because that single isn't going to be supported.
• 1:17:05
  Speaker 2: It might be, I know they're going to be our
• 1:17:07
  Speaker 2: next on the verge and they're likely going to blow up.
• 1:17:10
  Speaker 2: It might be that I know they're going to walk
• 1:17:13
  Speaker 2: on stage with Taylor Swift in three weeks and nobody
• 1:17:15
  Speaker 2: else knows that that's happening. So there's so much art
• 1:17:18
  Speaker 2: and science and data and intangible data that I think
• 1:17:21
  Speaker 2: we bring, like having that knowledge is something that most
• 1:17:25
  Speaker 2: agencies and brands are never going to have that kind
• 1:17:28
  Speaker 2: of access really.
• 1:17:29
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 1:17:31
  Speaker 2: To do on their own.
• 1:17:31
  Speaker 1: And in terms of you, Yes. Let's just assume somebody
• 1:17:35
  Speaker 1: made a deal with Pepsi.
• 1:17:37
  Speaker 2: Yep.
• 1:17:37
  Speaker 1: Brand doesn't matter. Who finds the act? Is that you? Uh-huh. Okay.
• 1:17:43
  Speaker 1: How much of the time do they come to you
• 1:17:46
  Speaker 1: and they say, this is the act we want? It happens.
• 1:17:50
  Speaker 2: It definitely happens. So a lot of... It happens both ways.
• 1:17:53
  Speaker 2: So sometimes they'll come and be like... This is the
• 1:17:55
  Speaker 2: literal person we want. Are we better off going through you?
• 1:17:58
  Speaker 2: They might come and say, hey, we want one of
• 1:18:01
  Speaker 2: these few people. What do you think? And we collaboratively
• 1:18:04
  Speaker 2: work together on either going out to all of them
• 1:18:06
  Speaker 2: or working down the list to the best choice. And
• 1:18:09
  Speaker 2: sometimes they come and go, please tell us who we
• 1:18:11
  Speaker 2: should be working with. So it can work any one
• 1:18:13
  Speaker 2: of those ways.
• 1:18:14
  Speaker 1: Okay. Leaving out someone who is promoting, everyone's promoting 24-7,
• 1:18:19
  Speaker 1: but they're not on current album cycle. Yep. Brand comes
• 1:18:22
  Speaker 1: to you, I want X artist. Will you make contact
• 1:18:25
  Speaker 1: with that X artist however you do it? How often
• 1:18:29
  Speaker 1: do they say yes?
• 1:18:31
  Speaker 2: If the deal makes sense, all the time, you know?
• 1:18:34
  Speaker 1: Okay, so what are the factors? How much is it
• 1:18:38
  Speaker 1: the money and how much of it is what you
• 1:18:40
  Speaker 1: want me to do?
• 1:18:42
  Speaker 2: I would say it's both because to your point, if
• 1:18:45
  Speaker 2: someone is not in cycle and there isn't really a
• 1:18:47
  Speaker 2: direct and obvious benefit to their song their tour, you know,
• 1:18:51
  Speaker 2: just something that's a current project for them, then it's
• 1:18:55
  Speaker 2: more likely they're going to want a number that makes
• 1:18:58
  Speaker 2: sense for them to do the deliverables. But you might
• 1:19:01
  Speaker 2: have a heritage act that has a lot of money,
• 1:19:05
  Speaker 2: but for whatever reason is excited about what the amplification
• 1:19:09
  Speaker 2: will be, or it might be a resurgence for their
• 1:19:11
  Speaker 2: older music, whatever it is, and then they might consider.
• 1:19:14
  Speaker 2: But I would say if they're not in cycle, it's
• 1:19:16
  Speaker 2: a little bit more about the actual check and then
• 1:19:19
  Speaker 2: If they are in cycle, it could still be about
• 1:19:21
  Speaker 2: the check depending on what those deliverables are, but they
• 1:19:23
  Speaker 2: might be more flexible because sometimes knowing that there's a
• 1:19:27
  Speaker 2: half a million or a million dollars or even $ 5
• 1:19:29
  Speaker 2: million of media that's going to be part of this
• 1:19:31
  Speaker 2: campaign in addition to the paycheck, that could be very
• 1:19:34
  Speaker 2: valuable or even more valuable to somebody.
• 1:19:37
  Speaker 1: Okay, let's just go back to privates. There are people
• 1:19:41
  Speaker 1: at agencies who book the privates. So if someone calls you,
• 1:19:45
  Speaker 1: I have a convention, I want, you know, a major star.
• 1:19:49
  Speaker 1: Do you do that or do you then call the agency?
• 1:19:52
  Speaker 2: I would, what I normally will do is call whoever
• 1:19:55
  Speaker 2: I have the best relationship with. So again, I love
• 1:19:58
  Speaker 2: the agencies. I work really closely. So a lot of
• 1:20:00
  Speaker 2: times I'll be respectful. If it's their artist, I'll go
• 1:20:03
  Speaker 2: to them. If it's someone I don't have as much
• 1:20:06
  Speaker 2: of a relationship with the agent, but I'm really tight
• 1:20:08
  Speaker 2: with the manager or the label, then I'll go whatever
• 1:20:11
  Speaker 2: the path of least resistance is. But at the end
• 1:20:14
  Speaker 2: of the day, it's the same benefit for the artist.
• 1:20:17
  Speaker 1: Okay, so- Certainly in the 60s, early 70s, acts wouldn't
• 1:20:22
  Speaker 1: do commercials. At this point, there's still, Eagles won't do commercials, whatever.
• 1:20:27
  Speaker 1: In your experience, forgetting the number and the deliverables, if
• 1:20:34
  Speaker 1: at all, people say, I just don't do that stuff.
• 1:20:37
  Speaker 2: I would say less people are like that now. I
• 1:20:40
  Speaker 2: think to your point, you know, it was like John Mellencamp,
• 1:20:42
  Speaker 2: and there was a lot of artists that in a
• 1:20:43
  Speaker 2: million years would never have considered doing something like that,
• 1:20:46
  Speaker 2: but I think because this is more the norm of
• 1:20:49
  Speaker 2: how marketing happens and I think it's just more of
• 1:20:52
  Speaker 2: a norm in society and how things work. I think
• 1:20:55
  Speaker 2: it has to be an organic fit. It has to
• 1:20:57
  Speaker 2: feel good. I think it has to be something they
• 1:20:59
  Speaker 2: really believe in and feel good. Like most people don't
• 1:21:02
  Speaker 2: want to just take a check for anything. But I
• 1:21:04
  Speaker 2: think if it's the right fit, something they organically really
• 1:21:08
  Speaker 2: like and it makes sense and the asks are something
• 1:21:12
  Speaker 2: that feel appropriate and organic to them, then they're way
• 1:21:15
  Speaker 2: more open to it now than I think they would
• 1:21:17
  Speaker 2: have been.
• 1:21:17
  Speaker 1: Okay, let's start with an act that has a name
• 1:21:20
  Speaker 1: but is not in cycle. Used to be this stuff
• 1:21:24
  Speaker 1: hung in the atmosphere. Everybody knew everything. Now, everybody has
• 1:21:29
  Speaker 1: a very narrow view. So you come to me with
• 1:21:32
  Speaker 1: a brand. I'm the act. And the number, we can
• 1:21:35
  Speaker 1: work out the number. But I'm saying here, you know,
• 1:21:38
  Speaker 1: don't really, doesn't wholly feel right to do advertising. But
• 1:21:43
  Speaker 1: if you can show me that this is going to
• 1:21:46
  Speaker 1: impact my career, then I'm interested. Do you have data saying, okay,
• 1:21:51
  Speaker 1: act from the 80s? You make this deal. We've done
• 1:21:54
  Speaker 1: it with five other people. Their attendance or their streams
• 1:21:57
  Speaker 1: or something has happened. A, does that happen? And B,
• 1:22:02
  Speaker 1: do you have the data?
• 1:22:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think, again, if it's, If it's a big
• 1:22:07
  Speaker 2: enough campaign with enough media, it's going to likely benefit
• 1:22:12
  Speaker 2: that artist. Because to your point, it might increase their streams.
• 1:22:14
  Speaker 2: If they're on a tour, it might help with their
• 1:22:16
  Speaker 2: ticket sales. It might just bring them back into the
• 1:22:19
  Speaker 2: forefront in a way that they haven't been in a
• 1:22:21
  Speaker 2: while if they're a legacy act and they're not in cycles. So, yes.
• 1:22:24
  Speaker 2: And usually the data will show an increase in, you know,
• 1:22:28
  Speaker 2: whether it's their social followers, their streams, their, you know,
• 1:22:31
  Speaker 2: there's different metrics you can look at, ticket sales.
• 1:22:34
  Speaker 1: But, yeah.
• 1:22:36
  Speaker 2: Again, nothing is ever guaranteed, but normally if done correctly.
• 1:22:40
  Speaker 1: Believe me, I know.
• 1:22:41
  Speaker 2: Normally if done correctly, you're going to see a lift.
• 1:22:43
  Speaker 2: Everybody will.
• 1:22:43
  Speaker 1: You're saying unlike other people who do this, you sit
• 1:22:46
  Speaker 1: in the center and you have all of these things.
• 1:22:50
  Speaker 1: This is hypothetical. Let's say you're a heritage act and
• 1:22:54
  Speaker 1: you have new music and you want to get it exposed.
• 1:22:59
  Speaker 1: Let's just leave it at very difficult. Could I say
• 1:23:02
  Speaker 1: to you, hook me up with a brand and we're
• 1:23:06
  Speaker 1: going to get X number of impressions so people will
• 1:23:09
  Speaker 1: be aware of it. Would that be reasonable thinking?
• 1:23:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's smart thinking, I think, you know, because, again,
• 1:23:16
  Speaker 2: I think brands are now, you know, a great potential
• 1:23:20
  Speaker 2: source of marketing for music, right? Because if you have
• 1:23:23
  Speaker 2: a Pepsi or, you know, an American Express, like any
• 1:23:28
  Speaker 2: of these brands that do massive, massive marketing campaigns, It's
• 1:23:31
  Speaker 2: a benefit to any artist, whether they're legacy, new, emerging, superstar.
• 1:23:35
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's definitely a way. The labels don't always have,
• 1:23:40
  Speaker 2: depending on who the artist is, they may not have
• 1:23:42
  Speaker 2: a $ 3 million marketing budget for everybody, right? Maybe they
• 1:23:46
  Speaker 2: do for the biggest.
• 1:23:46
  Speaker 1: For almost nobody. Right.
• 1:23:48
  Speaker 2: So now if a great quality blue chip brand comes
• 1:23:52
  Speaker 2: along and has a great checkbook and it's a quality
• 1:23:55
  Speaker 2: product that they relate to and feel good about, I mean,
• 1:23:58
  Speaker 2: it's a great thing for them to explore now.
• 1:24:01
  Speaker 1: I'm a brand. I want to be in business with you.
• 1:24:05
  Speaker 1: How much do I, what's my spend minimum have to be?
• 1:24:08
  Speaker 2: I don't know that we have that. I think we
• 1:24:10
  Speaker 2: take it on a case-by-case basis. It might be you're
• 1:24:13
  Speaker 2: already a great client of ours and this deal might be.
• 1:24:16
  Speaker 1: Let's say I'm a newbie. and I say, I want
• 1:24:19
  Speaker 1: to spend 25 grand, are you going to say, that's
• 1:24:21
  Speaker 1: just not going to buy enough? I love you, but
• 1:24:23
  Speaker 1: we can't do it.
• 1:24:24
  Speaker 2: Candidly, that's probably not likely something from the national side
• 1:24:30
  Speaker 2: that would make sense. But honestly, I've helped the local teams.
• 1:24:33
  Speaker 2: That might be a great buy in the local market.
• 1:24:35
  Speaker 2: And if it's something that makes sense that we're able
• 1:24:37
  Speaker 2: to put together, I don't know that we ever turn
• 1:24:40
  Speaker 2: someone away if it's a good deal and a good
• 1:24:42
  Speaker 2: brand and it's a good opportunity for an artist. So-
• 1:24:46
  Speaker 2: obviously we all have limited resources and they would want
• 1:24:49
  Speaker 2: us all to focus on the bigger deals, but I
• 1:24:52
  Speaker 2: will usually judge whether or not how easy, how much
• 1:24:56
  Speaker 2: resource has to go into something like this, right?
• 1:24:58
  Speaker 1: So tell me a couple of true stories.
• 1:25:01
  Speaker 2: Big ones or little ones?
• 1:25:03
  Speaker 1: Both.
• 1:25:05
  Speaker 2: Well, one of my favorites right now that I think
• 1:25:07
  Speaker 2: could be one of the coolest ones I've worked on
• 1:25:10
  Speaker 2: in my career is Lincoln came to us and wanted
• 1:25:13
  Speaker 2: to do an exclusive podcast series. And simultaneously, I got
• 1:25:19
  Speaker 2: a call that Nile Rodgers was interested in doing a podcast.
• 1:25:23
  Speaker 2: And I was like, whoa. This is a gift that
• 1:25:26
  Speaker 2: just fell from the sky because obviously Niall is, I
• 1:25:29
  Speaker 2: consider him a gift to the world. He makes perfect
• 1:25:32
  Speaker 2: sense for a luxury brand like Lincoln. And knowing that
• 1:25:37
  Speaker 2: my biggest task is having to get great artists to
• 1:25:40
  Speaker 2: want to have a conversation on this podcast, what better
• 1:25:43
  Speaker 2: incentive than to be able to talk to Niall Rodgers?
• 1:25:46
  Speaker 2: So make a long story short, we just were able
• 1:25:48
  Speaker 2: to put this deal together. It was a one series.
• 1:25:52
  Speaker 1: Oh, sorry.
• 1:25:52
  Speaker 2: A one season deal right now. But I probably have
• 1:25:56
  Speaker 2: enough people, you know, excited or interested that I could
• 1:25:59
  Speaker 2: probably have booked three seasons by now. We just launched
• 1:26:03
  Speaker 2: We launched number one in music podcasts and number 28
• 1:26:06
  Speaker 2: overall in all Apple podcasts. So right there, I would
• 1:26:09
  Speaker 2: say that's an incredibly successful deal that was great for Niall,
• 1:26:14
  Speaker 2: great for Lincoln, great results. And I think it's also
• 1:26:18
  Speaker 2: something that not everyone would have been able to bring
• 1:26:21
  Speaker 2: that opportunity to Lincoln because they wouldn't have been getting
• 1:26:25
  Speaker 2: that phone call from Niall's manager going, hey, Niall's kind
• 1:26:27
  Speaker 2: of interested in this.
• 1:26:28
  Speaker 1: Okay. Right here. iHeart has a big podcast division. How
• 1:26:34
  Speaker 1: did you know that Niall was interested?
• 1:26:37
  Speaker 2: His manager called me is what I'm saying.
• 1:26:39
  Speaker 1: Oh, so the manager didn't call the podcaster. He called you. Yes.
• 1:26:42
  Speaker 2: Well, because again, a lot of artists will call me
• 1:26:46
  Speaker 2: or managers will call me if depending, you know, like
• 1:26:49
  Speaker 2: I'll call all of us. Like there's obviously different people.
• 1:26:53
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 1:26:55
  Speaker 2: They might call Tom Pullman. They might call, you know.
• 1:26:57
  Speaker 1: Okay. Since you touch so many people, but there's only
• 1:27:02
  Speaker 1: 24 hours in a day. How often do you hear
• 1:27:06
  Speaker 1: from a representative saying, got an opportunity for my act?
• 1:27:11
  Speaker 2: A lot, and I love it.
• 1:27:13
  Speaker 1: I mean, twice a day, twice a month?
• 1:27:18
  Speaker 2: I guess it varies. It could be once a week.
• 1:27:22
  Speaker 2: It could be.
• 1:27:22
  Speaker 1: Okay, so let's say I call you. I know you.
• 1:27:25
  Speaker 1: We have history. You know, I have this act, blah, blah, blah.
• 1:27:28
  Speaker 1: Will you ever say, you know, you're off cycle. Maybe
• 1:27:32
  Speaker 1: this isn't the right time.
• 1:27:34
  Speaker 2: I'll never say no. I'll always try, but I might
• 1:27:37
  Speaker 2: not always succeed. So again, a lot of what I
• 1:27:41
  Speaker 2: do is more coming from the brand side, asking for
• 1:27:46
  Speaker 2: opportunities with artists versus us Going out because to your point,
• 1:27:50
  Speaker 2: they have agencies and labels and people that are also
• 1:27:53
  Speaker 2: working all the time to get them those deals. But
• 1:27:56
  Speaker 2: all the time I will have people on the phone
• 1:27:59
  Speaker 2: with me that will say, hey, and if you come
• 1:28:01
  Speaker 2: across because I know I do it. So it's like
• 1:28:04
  Speaker 2: if you come across any deals that make sense, we're interested. Sometimes,
• 1:28:08
  Speaker 2: you know, it's just part of the conversation that I'll
• 1:28:10
  Speaker 2: have with people as I'm talking to them about their music.
• 1:28:13
  Speaker 2: I'm still very, very much a part of breaking the
• 1:28:18
  Speaker 2: new music or helping with their rollout plans and their
• 1:28:20
  Speaker 2: marketing plans. In addition to just the brand stuff, it
• 1:28:24
  Speaker 2: might just be music strategy, helping them figure out what
• 1:28:27
  Speaker 2: markets to target.
• 1:28:28
  Speaker 1: Let's leave the brand aside. Tell me how that looks
• 1:28:31
  Speaker 1: in terms of you helping break acts.
• 1:28:33
  Speaker 2: So I've always been a passionate person about new music.
• 1:28:38
  Speaker 2: That has always been my thing. So I like to
• 1:28:41
  Speaker 2: joke that I'm one of the people you come to
• 1:28:43
  Speaker 2: at the very, very beginning, and I'm going to care
• 1:28:45
  Speaker 2: just as much about you as if you're an A-lister.
• 1:28:49
  Speaker 2: Because being a data person and for my whole career,
• 1:28:54
  Speaker 2: seeing the early people you know, or the early day
• 1:28:57
  Speaker 2: to raise its hand, that's a passion thing for me. So,
• 1:29:01
  Speaker 2: you know, I have a shirt that says number one
• 1:29:03
  Speaker 2: Belieber because I was the first person in, you know,
• 1:29:05
  Speaker 2: or one of the first people to obviously be a
• 1:29:07
  Speaker 2: Bieber fan. I remember telling Taylor Swift, hey, kid, you're
• 1:29:10
  Speaker 2: going to be a star. You know, more of a
• 1:29:12
  Speaker 2: recent one would be like Alex Warren. I was like,
• 1:29:15
  Speaker 2: this guy's amazing. Benson Boone. Sabrina Carpenter was a pet
• 1:29:19
  Speaker 2: project for a decade.
• 1:29:20
  Speaker 1: Okay, those are a lot of good names. What point
• 1:29:25
  Speaker 1: are you hearing those acts?
• 1:29:27
  Speaker 2: Before anyone's heard them. It could be before they've even
• 1:29:30
  Speaker 2: hit the mainstream.
• 1:29:31
  Speaker 1: Okay, but is it usually because someone gets a hold
• 1:29:34
  Speaker 1: of you and say, I got something special, it's going
• 1:29:36
  Speaker 1: to hit? Oh, yeah.
• 1:29:37
  Speaker 2: Well, a lot of times it could be the label.
• 1:29:40
  Speaker 2: It could be the manager. Sometimes it could be I
• 1:29:42
  Speaker 2: came across it online.
• 1:29:43
  Speaker 1: Okay, so sometimes you do come across it.
• 1:29:45
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah. I mean, you know, it could be all over, right?
• 1:29:48
  Speaker 2: An iHeartRadio. It could be anywhere, right?
• 1:29:51
  Speaker 1: Okay, but I interrupted you. You come across something and
• 1:29:55
  Speaker 1: you go.
• 1:29:55
  Speaker 2: I'm like, this is special. Right. I actually have someone
• 1:29:59
  Speaker 2: who works for me just to give you context of
• 1:30:01
  Speaker 2: what we also do is every single week we analyze
• 1:30:04
  Speaker 2: at least about a half a million songs across all genres.
• 1:30:09
  Speaker 2: And we're looking for a certain trajectory or a certain
• 1:30:14
  Speaker 2: kind of pop in a data that tells us this
• 1:30:17
  Speaker 2: is something special. So it doesn't have to be your
• 1:30:21
  Speaker 2: top 10 streaming song for me and my department. To
• 1:30:25
  Speaker 2: be interested in something, it could be 500 on the streaming.
• 1:30:28
  Speaker 2: Just to be clear, the.
• 1:30:30
  Speaker 1: Data you're looking at, is that solely media base?
• 1:30:33
  Speaker 2: No, it's media base. It's Luminate. It could be chart metric.
• 1:30:37
  Speaker 1: It could be- Okay, so you go all the data
• 1:30:38
  Speaker 1: you get. We're all over the place.
• 1:30:40
  Speaker 2: Any of the data we could get our hands on,
• 1:30:43
  Speaker 2: we like to look at it. And then every week-
• 1:30:46
  Speaker 2: We speak with all the different brand managers for the
• 1:30:50
  Speaker 2: different formats and we basically present to them, hey, here's
• 1:30:53
  Speaker 2: a lot of the data we're seeing. And by their direction,
• 1:30:56
  Speaker 2: we've created reports of things the way they like to
• 1:30:59
  Speaker 2: see it, what makes sense for them to want to
• 1:31:01
  Speaker 2: move on something. So there's a ton of data analysis
• 1:31:05
  Speaker 2: that's going on. So I like to joke that I
• 1:31:08
  Speaker 2: like DM'd Miles Smith on Instagram. on Instagram was like, hey,
• 1:31:11
  Speaker 2: do you have a manager? Like, you're amazing. So like
• 1:31:15
  Speaker 2: a lot of these artists, we see them very early on.
• 1:31:17
  Speaker 2: It could be, again, just discovering it on our own
• 1:31:19
  Speaker 2: or it could be someone plays a song and I'm like, whoa.
• 1:31:22
  Speaker 2: But obviously data is a big piece of how I
• 1:31:26
  Speaker 2: discover things. And then usually, you know, a lot of
• 1:31:30
  Speaker 2: times our programming team might already know of that person
• 1:31:33
  Speaker 2: as well. But if not, we'll bring it to one
• 1:31:35
  Speaker 2: of them and say, hey, we're seeing something really special here.
• 1:31:38
  Speaker 2: I think this is something we should pay attention to.
• 1:31:40
  Speaker 2: Then we monitor that artist. We track it. We talk
• 1:31:43
  Speaker 2: to their team. We figure out what their plans are.
• 1:31:47
  Speaker 2: And then, again, if collectively, from a data perspective, it
• 1:31:51
  Speaker 2: looks good or sonically it looks good or The programmers
• 1:31:53
  Speaker 2: see something special too. We'll do our best to come
• 1:31:56
  Speaker 2: up with strategic plans of how we can roll that
• 1:31:59
  Speaker 2: person out. Sometimes a person isn't ready for a radio single,
• 1:32:02
  Speaker 2: but there's still something special about them and you know it.
• 1:32:05
  Speaker 2: So we might put them on like one of our
• 1:32:08
  Speaker 2: smaller shows opening up for a bigger act or we
• 1:32:11
  Speaker 2: might do a brand deal with them. We might have
• 1:32:13
  Speaker 2: them come play in the office together. for advertisers hoping
• 1:32:16
  Speaker 2: that something happens out of that. So there's a lot
• 1:32:19
  Speaker 2: of different things we have in our toolbox that we
• 1:32:21
  Speaker 2: try and work with artists at every possible level they're at.
• 1:32:25
  Speaker 2: So Alex, for instance, is a great one that it
• 1:32:27
  Speaker 2: was long before Ordinary. It was Burning Down. We met him.
• 1:32:30
  Speaker 2: We were like, he's special. He's someone that we want
• 1:32:33
  Speaker 2: to get behind. He's someone we want to champion. So
• 1:32:36
  Speaker 2: we got behind him very early on Burning Down. We
• 1:32:38
  Speaker 2: stuck with that song on the radio and We made
• 1:32:41
  Speaker 2: it into a hit, and that was right when Ordinary
• 1:32:43
  Speaker 2: came out. We incorporated him in our shows. We really
• 1:32:47
  Speaker 2: embraced him as an artist. And next thing you know,
• 1:32:49
  Speaker 2: Ordinary comes out, and the rest is history.
• 1:32:52
  Speaker 1: Just to stop for one second. This is to the
• 1:32:56
  Speaker 1: benefit of the IHAR stations. There is no cost to
• 1:32:59
  Speaker 1: the act.
• 1:33:00
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 1:33:01
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 1:33:02
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah.
• 1:33:02
  Speaker 1: It's a way for you to help business.
• 1:33:04
  Speaker 2: It's a win for everybody.
• 1:33:06
  Speaker 1: No doubt.
• 1:33:07
  Speaker 2: Definitely no charge. No, this is about you find artists
• 1:33:10
  Speaker 2: that you believe in and you champion them and you
• 1:33:13
  Speaker 2: get behind them.
• 1:33:14
  Speaker 1: How often do you, but, you know, sometimes you might be, hey,
• 1:33:17
  Speaker 1: this is great, and then you might hear from a brand. Yeah.
• 1:33:21
  Speaker 1: So could you tell us any stories where a brand
• 1:33:24
  Speaker 1: got into something young that helped amplify it?
• 1:33:28
  Speaker 2: So a great example was Jax when Victoria's Secret was
• 1:33:35
  Speaker 2: just starting to pop. So I knew it was popping.
• 1:33:38
  Speaker 2: I knew it was going to go. I knew this
• 1:33:40
  Speaker 2: song was going to be something. We had a brand
• 1:33:43
  Speaker 2: come in that was a perfect fit for her. And
• 1:33:48
  Speaker 2: I knew that I was, I had set up some
• 1:33:51
  Speaker 2: things for her that she was going to, you know,
• 1:33:54
  Speaker 2: react to her song for the first time on the radio.
• 1:33:56
  Speaker 2: We knew there was things that we were going to
• 1:33:58
  Speaker 2: be able to do that. And I knew it was
• 1:34:00
  Speaker 2: going to be minutes she was going to explode. So
• 1:34:02
  Speaker 2: we partnered her with this brand. And sure enough, you know,
• 1:34:07
  Speaker 2: the song took off. She exploded. It became a big thing.
• 1:34:10
  Speaker 2: And the brand was thrilled because They wouldn't have even
• 1:34:13
  Speaker 2: been able to afford her literally like two months later.
• 1:34:16
  Speaker 2: So that's a great opportunity when we're able to identify
• 1:34:20
  Speaker 2: those songs and those artists right before they have that
• 1:34:23
  Speaker 2: massive break. So the brand has a chance to get
• 1:34:25
  Speaker 2: in and then again, ride that wave with the artists.
• 1:34:27
  Speaker 2: Because the fans and the audience loves when they see
• 1:34:31
  Speaker 2: a brand get in early. Because It's very easy to
• 1:34:35
  Speaker 2: partner with Beyonce when she's Beyonce or partner with Taylor Swift.
• 1:34:39
  Speaker 2: But when you partner with a brand, I think Luke Bryan,
• 1:34:43
  Speaker 2: I want to say it was Budweiser, is a great
• 1:34:45
  Speaker 2: example where they got in really early. They supported him
• 1:34:49
  Speaker 2: very early. And then as he became a megastar. They
• 1:34:52
  Speaker 2: organically rode that wave of success with him, but his
• 1:34:55
  Speaker 2: fan base knows that was a genuine organic partnership and
• 1:34:59
  Speaker 2: that they, that brand supported their favorite artist really early on,
• 1:35:02
  Speaker 2: which also creates an affinity from the consumer for that
• 1:35:07
  Speaker 2: brand because it's their favorite artist.
• 1:35:17
  Speaker 1: In the last 30 years, Many people are fans of
• 1:35:21
  Speaker 1: brands even more than they're fans of acts. The classic
• 1:35:26
  Speaker 1: would be Apple, but there are other ones. Do any
• 1:35:29
  Speaker 1: of those brands ever come to you and you go,
• 1:35:31
  Speaker 1: this is like the greatest thing. We just got to
• 1:35:33
  Speaker 1: get the right act because this act, if you're aligned
• 1:35:36
  Speaker 1: with this act, you're going to go. Does that happen?
• 1:35:40
  Speaker 2: I think, yeah, I think it always happens, right? There's no,
• 1:35:42
  Speaker 2: there's no, there's almost no brand. I mean, Apple's kind
• 1:35:45
  Speaker 2: of an interesting thing, but even Apple, right, chooses music
• 1:35:49
  Speaker 2: to use in their campaigns. They still want to align
• 1:35:52
  Speaker 2: with the right artist, whether they pay them the same
• 1:35:54
  Speaker 2: paycheck versus they're able to offer them a massive marketing opportunity.
• 1:35:58
  Speaker 2: That's a different conversation because that goes back to the
• 1:36:00
  Speaker 2: original thing. The paycheck might not be as important if
• 1:36:04
  Speaker 2: they can deliver your song to 500 million people or something, right? So-
• 1:36:08
  Speaker 2: There's a benefit in that kind of— but there's almost no
• 1:36:10
  Speaker 2: brand that isn't going to necessarily get the benefit of
• 1:36:14
  Speaker 2: being with the right artist with the right campaign. Those— when
• 1:36:17
  Speaker 2: they work, they can be incredible.
• 1:36:20
  Speaker 1: Okay. Alex, Warren, some of these acts, they're very Hot
• 1:36:27
  Speaker 1: 100 pop-oriented. Can you tell us of any stories that
• 1:36:31
  Speaker 1: don't fit that vertical?
• 1:36:34
  Speaker 2: Of success with a brand?
• 1:36:36
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 1:36:36
  Speaker 2: Or— Or just in general.
• 1:36:39
  Speaker 1: No, no, I mean it's success with the brand. Let's
• 1:36:42
  Speaker 1: just use an example. Jason Isbell isn't going to make
• 1:36:46
  Speaker 1: a deal, and he's not going to have something in
• 1:36:49
  Speaker 1: the Spotify top 50, but he has a very dedicated
• 1:36:52
  Speaker 1: fan base, et cetera. Can you tell me about an
• 1:36:56
  Speaker 1: act like that? When it's all said and done, they're
• 1:36:58
  Speaker 1: not going to show up at the top of the chart,
• 1:37:01
  Speaker 1: but there is a benefit. Yeah.
• 1:37:05
  Speaker 2: One of them, honestly, and anyone who listens to this
• 1:37:09
  Speaker 2: and knows me is going to be like, here she goes.
• 1:37:11
  Speaker 2: But Shinedown was a great example. This is a band
• 1:37:14
  Speaker 2: that has an incredibly rabid fan base, but might not
• 1:37:18
  Speaker 2: be the obvious band that a brand is going to
• 1:37:22
  Speaker 2: think they need to be in business with. They had
• 1:37:25
  Speaker 2: hot sauce. We partnered with the chain Smokey Bones, which
• 1:37:29
  Speaker 2: is a barbecue chain. And we did a partnership with
• 1:37:32
  Speaker 2: their hot sauce and Smokey Bones. The return, because again,
• 1:37:38
  Speaker 2: they have such a rabid fan base, the hot sauce
• 1:37:43
  Speaker 2: sold out in two weeks instead of four months. The
• 1:37:46
  Speaker 2: entries for the contest exceeded anything that I'd ever seen,
• 1:37:50
  Speaker 2: so much so that they gave me a $ 50, 000 donation
• 1:37:54
  Speaker 2: to charity as an appreciation because they couldn't believe the results.
• 1:37:58
  Speaker 1: This is the band.
• 1:37:59
  Speaker 2: No, this is the brand. Smokey Bones added in a
• 1:38:03
  Speaker 2: charity donation as part of this whole thing because they
• 1:38:06
  Speaker 2: were so encouraged by the astronomical results.
• 1:38:10
  Speaker 1: Just so I know, Smokey Bones, Shinedown's got a hot sauce.
• 1:38:15
  Speaker 1: Any cash involved or pure promotion?
• 1:38:17
  Speaker 2: It was a small amount of cash, but, you know, they— Okay. So—
• 1:38:23
  Speaker 2: It was more about it was a good fit?
• 1:38:24
  Speaker 1: No, I get it. Good opportunity for both. What did
• 1:38:29
  Speaker 1: the nuts and bolts look? How long campaign and what
• 1:38:32
  Speaker 1: did Smokey Bones actually do?
• 1:38:35
  Speaker 2: So Smokey Bones incorporated the hot sauce into their restaurants.
• 1:38:40
  Speaker 2: We created like a special menu that, you know, included
• 1:38:43
  Speaker 2: the hot sauce. People were able to try it. They
• 1:38:46
  Speaker 2: were they were selling that in the store. They did
• 1:38:49
  Speaker 2: a contest where you got to fly and meet the band.
• 1:38:54
  Speaker 2: We did a check presentation of the charity at one
• 1:38:57
  Speaker 2: of their shows. We did social video. So they came
• 1:39:01
  Speaker 2: to a Smokey Bones location and did a fun social
• 1:39:04
  Speaker 2: video where they, you know, had the hot sauce on
• 1:39:07
  Speaker 2: the wings. And so it was video. It was social.
• 1:39:10
  Speaker 2: It was contesting. It was product integration.
• 1:39:14
  Speaker 1: Okay. Smokey Bones. Do you have any idea how many
• 1:39:16
  Speaker 1: Smokey Bones there are?
• 1:39:18
  Speaker 2: At the time, I want to say there was about 30.
• 1:39:20
  Speaker 1: Okay. So there are 30.
• 1:39:21
  Speaker 2: It was an East Coast chain. Okay. Yeah.
• 1:39:24
  Speaker 1: Any radio, TV, traditional advertising, print, any of that?
• 1:39:31
  Speaker 2: Radio advertising there was, obviously.
• 1:39:33
  Speaker 1: That's my question.
• 1:39:33
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah.
• 1:39:34
  Speaker 1: So there was radio advertising.
• 1:39:35
  Speaker 2: Right, because the contest was part of the radio advertising.
• 1:39:38
  Speaker 1: How long did the campaign run?
• 1:39:40
  Speaker 2: It was a couple of months.
• 1:39:41
  Speaker 1: Couple of months. The campaign ends. Do they take the
• 1:39:45
  Speaker 1: stuff off the menu?
• 1:39:47
  Speaker 2: Well, yeah, that was the deal.
• 1:39:48
  Speaker 1: No, no.
• 1:39:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:39:49
  Speaker 1: Okay. So... Where do you go from there if you're shinedown?
• 1:39:55
  Speaker 2: You know, you keep selling out arenas. I mean, it's
• 1:40:01
  Speaker 2: not all brand deals. Most brand deals are at the
• 1:40:04
  Speaker 2: longest a year unless they become a real multi-year full-blown
• 1:40:09
  Speaker 2: ambassador deal. But a typical campaign is anywhere from... three
• 1:40:13
  Speaker 2: months to six months on the long end a year.
• 1:40:17
  Speaker 2: So that's not an atypical partnership at all.
• 1:40:20
  Speaker 1: Okay. Was the appeal, because the money was de minimis,
• 1:40:24
  Speaker 1: was the appeal the promotion of the act or the
• 1:40:27
  Speaker 1: promotion of the hot sauce to shine down?
• 1:40:30
  Speaker 2: Both. Probably more for them, probably, I'm going to say both,
• 1:40:35
  Speaker 2: but the appeal, they had a new album, they're on
• 1:40:37
  Speaker 2: a tour. I mean, it was a good win-win because
• 1:40:40
  Speaker 2: they aligned very well with the tour market. So there was...
• 1:40:43
  Speaker 2: giveaways in in the tour markets and stuff like.
• 1:40:45
  Speaker 1: That okay how did it come together.
• 1:40:49
  Speaker 2: That was that that one was one that was more
• 1:40:53
  Speaker 2: proactive in you know seeing if somebody wanted a partner
• 1:40:56
  Speaker 2: with the hot sauce so we reached out to a
• 1:40:58
  Speaker 2: couple of um barbecue chains and they were like yeah
• 1:41:02
  Speaker 2: and it was a great fit and you know it
• 1:41:04
  Speaker 2: was it was a perfect audience fit and the markets
• 1:41:07
  Speaker 2: aligned where they were playing and where they were popular
• 1:41:09
  Speaker 2: with where they had stores. So it was just one
• 1:41:12
  Speaker 2: of those that came together. But I guess the reason
• 1:41:14
  Speaker 2: I use that as an example is you don't have
• 1:41:17
  Speaker 2: to be the biggest name. Sometimes when you have a
• 1:41:21
  Speaker 2: great following, you can actually get a bigger benefit from
• 1:41:26
  Speaker 2: a smaller name with a more rabid following than a
• 1:41:29
  Speaker 2: bigger name that their fan base, maybe they have more followers,
• 1:41:33
  Speaker 2: but that doesn't mean the fan base is going out
• 1:41:35
  Speaker 2: To drive to a barbecue place to pick up the
• 1:41:40
  Speaker 2: hot sauce.
• 1:41:41
  Speaker 1: Okay. When you go, since you were working on the
• 1:41:44
  Speaker 1: Shinedown end, were you the person who hooked them up
• 1:41:46
  Speaker 1: with Dem Bones? Smokey Bones? Yeah.
• 1:41:50
  Speaker 2: It was my team. I had a salesperson that's my partner.
• 1:41:52
  Speaker 1: I'm just interested. I'm Smokey Bones. There's a number. To me-
• 1:41:58
  Speaker 1: You want me to print new menus and put all
• 1:42:00
  Speaker 1: this stuff? That's, you know, were they like gung-ho? Yeah.
• 1:42:05
  Speaker 2: And like I said, this particular one exceeded expectations. That's
• 1:42:08
  Speaker 2: why I think it was a good one. And I
• 1:42:10
  Speaker 2: like using it as an example because you asked earlier,
• 1:42:13
  Speaker 2: I mean, you know, I love Gavin DeGraw. He hasn't
• 1:42:17
  Speaker 2: had a current radio single, but we've done some great
• 1:42:21
  Speaker 2: partnerships with him, you know, where he'll do privates or
• 1:42:24
  Speaker 2: do some kind of brand integration. So you don't always
• 1:42:27
  Speaker 2: have to be in cycle. You don't always have to
• 1:42:28
  Speaker 2: be the biggest name. You don't even have to be
• 1:42:30
  Speaker 2: the most obvious format. I would say we've done things
• 1:42:34
  Speaker 2: where there were bands I wasn't even really familiar with
• 1:42:37
  Speaker 2: at first when we originally did the partnership, but they
• 1:42:40
  Speaker 2: came and were interested and we found those bands and
• 1:42:42
  Speaker 2: we put it together. So it can run the gamut.
• 1:42:45
  Speaker 2: You know, you have the obvious big names that everybody
• 1:42:49
  Speaker 2: wants to be in business with, but the reality is
• 1:42:51
  Speaker 2: almost nobody has the paycheck for those big names. So
• 1:42:55
  Speaker 2: it really is great when you can find those people
• 1:42:58
  Speaker 2: that are a real organic fit. They're affordable, but they
• 1:43:02
  Speaker 2: actually are going to bring a bigger benefit than you
• 1:43:04
  Speaker 2: expect because they still might have a really rabid fan base.
• 1:43:08
  Speaker 2: And that's what, that's really the most important part of
• 1:43:10
  Speaker 2: this whole thing is, is can, are their fans going
• 1:43:14
  Speaker 2: to engage and participate in this? Or are they just
• 1:43:16
  Speaker 2: going to, do you just have a lot of fans,
• 1:43:18
  Speaker 2: but they're not going to be active in this anyway?
• 1:43:21
  Speaker 2: You want to find the ones where whatever their KPI is,
• 1:43:25
  Speaker 2: is what's going to happen.
• 1:43:26
  Speaker 1: So- KPI for the audience at large.
• 1:43:29
  Speaker 2: Their delivery, like their goals, right? So if you're trying
• 1:43:32
  Speaker 2: to sell tickets to a custom tour, you're going to
• 1:43:36
  Speaker 2: want someone who's good at selling tickets. If it's about,
• 1:43:40
  Speaker 2: you know, social engagement and virality, you're going to want
• 1:43:44
  Speaker 2: someone with a big, you know, social following and great engagement.
• 1:43:49
  Speaker 2: If you're looking for PR, you might want that big name, right?
• 1:43:53
  Speaker 2: So depending on what you're actually trying to accomplish at
• 1:43:56
  Speaker 2: the end, We try and figure out who is the
• 1:43:59
  Speaker 2: right person, how do they perform in that particular area,
• 1:44:03
  Speaker 2: and are going to deliver the results that the brand wants.
• 1:44:06
  Speaker 1: Now, you told me, usually it starts with the brand side.
• 1:44:08
  Speaker 1: Do you ever have an entity who has an act saying,
• 1:44:15
  Speaker 1: I'm looking for a brand deal, and in reality, you
• 1:44:21
  Speaker 1: tell yourself, no matter how much money you have, this
• 1:44:24
  Speaker 1: act just isn't going to go.
• 1:44:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I guess to some degree. It's not, again, because
• 1:44:30
  Speaker 2: I guess you would never say never. But certainly to
• 1:44:33
  Speaker 2: your point, there are going to be times where it's
• 1:44:36
  Speaker 2: just a much harder sell and you just, it's unlikely, right?
• 1:44:40
  Speaker 1: So you would actually tell them that?
• 1:44:43
  Speaker 2: I think so. I mean, I'm never here to waste
• 1:44:45
  Speaker 2: anyone's time. I mean, I would probably talk it through
• 1:44:48
  Speaker 2: with them and... you know, see if I thought there
• 1:44:51
  Speaker 2: was anything that made sense. And even if it wasn't me,
• 1:44:53
  Speaker 2: I might say, hey, you might want to think about
• 1:44:55
  Speaker 2: doing blank. But yeah, I'm pretty honest. I mean, you
• 1:44:57
  Speaker 2: don't want to waste anyone's time.
• 1:44:59
  Speaker 1: So we have Shinedown. We have Nile Rodgers. At this
• 1:45:03
  Speaker 1: present moment, how many of those are in the back
• 1:45:06
  Speaker 1: of your brain? We're saying, well, you know, I got those.
• 1:45:08
  Speaker 1: There's an opportunity if I can... I'm not looking for
• 1:45:10
  Speaker 1: a brand tomorrow, but like, you know, something comes across
• 1:45:13
  Speaker 1: the transom. Always.
• 1:45:14
  Speaker 2: I have about eight of them right now in my
• 1:45:17
  Speaker 2: email that I'm trying to figure out from beer brands to,
• 1:45:21
  Speaker 2: you know, supermarkets. I mean, it runs the gamut.
• 1:45:27
  Speaker 1: Okay, that's that. How about the other side? Shine down now, Rogers.
• 1:45:32
  Speaker 1: How many are you seeing? I'm sitting on people. They're good.
• 1:45:36
  Speaker 1: and I'm waiting for the right fit. Do you have
• 1:45:38
  Speaker 1: those people in your mind too?
• 1:45:39
  Speaker 2: I have people that like, I would joke like Charlie
• 1:45:43
  Speaker 2: Puth and John Legend, I would almost bring them like
• 1:45:45
  Speaker 2: a deal a year because they were just fantastic, right?
• 1:45:48
  Speaker 2: I think Alex is fantastic because him and Cover are
• 1:45:51
  Speaker 2: just marketing geniuses. They're really good, right? So you do,
• 1:45:55
  Speaker 2: Brandy has been a huge partner of mine for a
• 1:45:58
  Speaker 2: long time. We used to have a joke that Andy
• 1:46:00
  Speaker 2: Grammer was always one of My favorites, and again, it
• 1:46:03
  Speaker 2: depends on what the brand is and what they're trying
• 1:46:05
  Speaker 2: to accomplish. When I identify people that are great to
• 1:46:09
  Speaker 2: work with for brands, that, you know, we see great
• 1:46:13
  Speaker 2: results when they partner with brands, those are the ones
• 1:46:15
  Speaker 2: that obviously I'm always trying to look for something for
• 1:46:19
  Speaker 2: them or they'll be on the top of the list
• 1:46:21
  Speaker 2: of people I'm going to recommend because I believe in
• 1:46:23
  Speaker 2: them and I know they're going to deliver and I
• 1:46:26
  Speaker 2: know everyone's going to be happy.
• 1:46:26
  Speaker 1: At the end. Let's say I'm a media-based customer. I'm paying.
• 1:46:31
  Speaker 1: Am I getting any hand holding anything in addition to
• 1:46:35
  Speaker 1: the numbers?
• 1:46:38
  Speaker 2: If you need it, yeah. I mean, at any given time,
• 1:46:40
  Speaker 2: it might be someone's trying to figure out if their
• 1:46:44
  Speaker 2: artist has achieved a particular goal, or they might want to,
• 1:46:49
  Speaker 2: it might be a radio station that's looking for a
• 1:46:52
  Speaker 2: very specific report on their competitor that for whatever reason
• 1:46:55
  Speaker 2: we just don't have as a an ordinary report in
• 1:46:59
  Speaker 2: the system. It might be more of a custom nature.
• 1:47:01
  Speaker 2: So we would absolutely.
• 1:47:03
  Speaker 1: If I'm a customer that would not be out of
• 1:47:06
  Speaker 1: line for me to call you. I need a little help, whatever. Okay.
• 1:47:10
  Speaker 1: You're based in New York. You're in LA. Why in LA?
• 1:47:14
  Speaker 2: Right now?
• 1:47:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:47:16
  Speaker 2: I have, I'm also the president of the board for
• 1:47:19
  Speaker 2: city hope. So I came out here for our board meeting.
• 1:47:23
  Speaker 2: And while I was out here, I said, let me
• 1:47:25
  Speaker 2: do your podcast and see you. And I did. I mean, obviously, L.A.
• 1:47:30
  Speaker 2: outside of New York is the second place that I
• 1:47:32
  Speaker 2: obviously can do a lot of business. So when I
• 1:47:34
  Speaker 2: came in for the board meeting, I just built meetings
• 1:47:36
  Speaker 2: around it.
• 1:47:36
  Speaker 1: Generally speaking, how much traveling do you do? A lot.
• 1:47:40
  Speaker 1: What what'll get you?
• 1:47:42
  Speaker 2: I was just in London with my podcast taping with
• 1:47:45
  Speaker 2: Niall and an artist and. And I'm trying to think
• 1:47:50
  Speaker 2: of where I came... Oh, then I was at iHeart
• 1:47:51
  Speaker 2: Festival before that. Because I have dual roles... For media base,
• 1:47:57
  Speaker 2: I work with every broadcasting company, every label, you know,
• 1:48:02
  Speaker 2: so I could be going to a convention under the
• 1:48:07
  Speaker 2: media base umbrella where I'm interacting with everybody.
• 1:48:10
  Speaker 1: What kind of convention?
• 1:48:11
  Speaker 2: Like CRS, Country Radio Seminar, or, you know, NAB. So
• 1:48:15
  Speaker 2: sometimes I take the iHeart hat off. I'm neutral. I'm media-based.
• 1:48:19
  Speaker 2: I'm making sure that I'm, you know, connecting with Odyssey
• 1:48:23
  Speaker 2: and Cumulus and everybody else that's a customer. And so
• 1:48:26
  Speaker 2: a generic, you know, convention might be great because I
• 1:48:29
  Speaker 2: have a ton of, you know, clients that are at that.
• 1:48:32
  Speaker 2: And then I might put the iHeart hat back on
• 1:48:34
  Speaker 2: and I go to iHeart Festival or a brand deal or,
• 1:48:37
  Speaker 2: you know, something else that's an execution for, you know,
• 1:48:40
  Speaker 2: a show we're doing with an artist or something. So
• 1:48:43
  Speaker 2: because I'm on both sides, there's a lot of different
• 1:48:47
  Speaker 2: things that I end up traveling for.
• 1:48:48
  Speaker 1: And if there's 52 weeks in a year, how often
• 1:48:51
  Speaker 1: are you traveling?
• 1:48:54
  Speaker 2: Oh, I don't know. I mean, I guess it varies.
• 1:48:56
  Speaker 2: There'll be quieter times. I'm going to say 20 or 30,
• 1:49:00
  Speaker 2: enough to hit 1K. Okay.
• 1:49:03
  Speaker 1: That's important. Let's assume it's five o'clock in the evening
• 1:49:10
  Speaker 1: and I call you up and I say, hey, it's
• 1:49:13
  Speaker 1: a Tuesday night. I got a hot act playing at
• 1:49:17
  Speaker 1: a club downtown. What are you going to say? You know,
• 1:49:20
  Speaker 1: I love you. Been there, done that, or I'll be there.
• 1:49:22
  Speaker 1: Tell me the time.
• 1:49:23
  Speaker 2: It's a great question that you ask because I talked
• 1:49:26
  Speaker 2: to my husband about this. Early on in my career,
• 1:49:28
  Speaker 2: I was at every single show for every artist till
• 1:49:31
  Speaker 2: one in the morning. I've got a little more selective
• 1:49:34
  Speaker 2: in what I want to go to, but I will
• 1:49:36
  Speaker 2: never say no to somebody that I want to support
• 1:49:38
  Speaker 2: and someone I care about. So sometimes it's not even
• 1:49:41
  Speaker 2: about the act for me. It's about being loyal or
• 1:49:45
  Speaker 2: being supportive to somebody that I feel I should. If
• 1:49:49
  Speaker 2: they're a good friend or it's important to them that
• 1:49:51
  Speaker 2: I be that.
• 1:49:51
  Speaker 1: Wait, wait, wait. We all operate that. If you're my friend,
• 1:49:54
  Speaker 1: I'm going. Exactly. No problem. Exactly. But I'm trying to say,
• 1:49:58
  Speaker 1: because it's a nature of hype and promotion.
• 1:50:00
  Speaker 2: I try and do as many as I can. No, no, no.
• 1:50:01
  Speaker 1: What I'm trying to say is, first, you're thrilled that
• 1:50:05
  Speaker 1: we've been calling. Oh, yeah, of course I'll come. Right.
• 1:50:08
  Speaker 1: Then do you get to the point where, oh, I'm
• 1:50:11
  Speaker 1: out a lot. And for you to get me out
• 1:50:14
  Speaker 1: on something, if you're not my friend, you're not calling,
• 1:50:16
  Speaker 1: unless you're something really special, I'm sorry. Right.
• 1:50:19
  Speaker 2: It really then in that case, it's going to come
• 1:50:21
  Speaker 2: down to because I'm still a music lover.
• 1:50:24
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:50:24
  Speaker 2: So if I love the music or I love the
• 1:50:26
  Speaker 2: artist or I believe in it for whatever reason, then
• 1:50:28
  Speaker 2: I'm still going to go out. Right.
• 1:50:29
  Speaker 1: But that's, you know.
• 1:50:31
  Speaker 2: If I don't know the person and I don't know
• 1:50:33
  Speaker 2: the artist, I might not necessarily show up.
• 1:50:36
  Speaker 1: You mentioned the Jingle Ball. You've been involved 30 years. Yes.
• 1:50:41
  Speaker 2: I've been to every single New York Jingle Ball that
• 1:50:44
  Speaker 2: has ever happened. I've not missed one.
• 1:50:46
  Speaker 1: I anticipated that. And I don't want to make it
• 1:50:51
  Speaker 1: specifically about the Jingle Ball, but that's an annual event. Yep.
• 1:50:54
  Speaker 1: Do you ever say, well, you know, December 12th, I'll
• 1:50:59
  Speaker 1: be there. Or are you always, wow, Jingle Ball's coming up.
• 1:51:02
  Speaker 1: I can't wait.
• 1:51:03
  Speaker 2: I always want to be there. It's amazing that it
• 1:51:08
  Speaker 2: is still a day that I will not miss and
• 1:51:12
  Speaker 2: enjoy being there.
• 1:51:14
  Speaker 1: What's the number one thing you've experienced at the Jingle Ball?
• 1:51:17
  Speaker 2: Well, I guess the number one thing would be when
• 1:51:20
  Speaker 2: I was actually an intern and I was on stage
• 1:51:23
  Speaker 2: at Jingle Ball as the intern of the show.
• 1:51:25
  Speaker 1: That's pretty good. Okay, number two.
• 1:51:28
  Speaker 2: I experienced riding in the van with Run Republic from
• 1:51:32
  Speaker 2: Manhattan to... Jingle Ball. And it was, oh, I'm sorry,
• 1:51:38
  Speaker 2: from New Jersey to Jingle Ball. And it was the
• 1:51:39
  Speaker 2: first time they ever played Madison Square Garden. So that
• 1:51:43
  Speaker 2: was an amazing moment for Ryan. And I love that
• 1:51:45
  Speaker 2: I got to experience that. For me, I love that
• 1:51:49
  Speaker 2: I've been able to see artists play Madison Square Garden
• 1:51:52
  Speaker 2: for the first time ever. Or it's, again, because I
• 1:51:56
  Speaker 2: am so passionate about the early development and watching the
• 1:52:00
  Speaker 2: journey and hopefully when I can being part of the journey.
• 1:52:03
  Speaker 2: When you get to see that person that, you know,
• 1:52:05
  Speaker 2: eight months ago or even a year ago that you
• 1:52:07
  Speaker 2: met that nobody even knew existed and now you see
• 1:52:10
  Speaker 2: them playing on stage at Jingle Ball, that never gets
• 1:52:13
  Speaker 2: old for me. I love it.
• 1:52:14
  Speaker 1: Okay. Let's assume you're around talent. There are certain rules.
• 1:52:20
  Speaker 1: You're going to know the man. You're going to know
• 1:52:22
  Speaker 1: somebody who's the handler. And let's just assume for whatever,
• 1:52:26
  Speaker 1: they have a high profile, but you don't personally know them.
• 1:52:31
  Speaker 1: Are you going to wait for the moment or are
• 1:52:33
  Speaker 1: you going to go up and introduce yourself?
• 1:52:37
  Speaker 2: In most cases, I'll introduce myself. If I think there's
• 1:52:41
  Speaker 2: going to be a moment that their handler is going
• 1:52:44
  Speaker 2: to make happen, then obviously I'll wait for the moment.
• 1:52:46
  Speaker 2: But if I really love the person and I don't
• 1:52:49
  Speaker 2: know how else I'm getting the moment, I'll go for it.
• 1:52:52
  Speaker 1: And to what degree are the people receptive?
• 1:52:56
  Speaker 2: Most are receptive, especially, again, let's put it in the
• 1:52:59
  Speaker 2: context of it's an iHeart event and I'm an iHeart executive.
• 1:53:02
  Speaker 1: Right, right.
• 1:53:02
  Speaker 2: I was just going to say, so you lead with that.
• 1:53:04
  Speaker 2: So I lead with that. And so I don't know
• 1:53:07
  Speaker 2: that I've ever encountered a rude experience.
• 1:53:10
  Speaker 1: Well, you find, you know, you find people who are
• 1:53:13
  Speaker 1: just like deer in the headlights.
• 1:53:16
  Speaker 2: In a lot of cases, yeah. In a lot of cases,
• 1:53:18
  Speaker 2: I have... probably met that because, again, I'm very involved
• 1:53:23
  Speaker 2: with the programming team and with the labels on, you know,
• 1:53:26
  Speaker 2: in all the different roles that I typically hold. So
• 1:53:29
  Speaker 2: I usually am in the very early meetings and we
• 1:53:31
  Speaker 2: meet the artists early. So it's very rare that I'm
• 1:53:34
  Speaker 2: a total stranger to somebody. That being said, if it's
• 1:53:38
  Speaker 2: a really mass, if it's Paul McCartney playing I Heart
• 1:53:41
  Speaker 2: Festival and I've never met Paul and I'm like fainting
• 1:53:44
  Speaker 2: because Paul McCartney standing over there, that might be a
• 1:53:46
  Speaker 2: case where he doesn't know who I am. But I
• 1:53:49
  Speaker 2: would probably shoot my shot if I saw the opportunity,
• 1:53:52
  Speaker 2: or I wouldn't bother him if I felt like. I
• 1:53:54
  Speaker 2: also want to be careful that I'm not annoying someone
• 1:53:57
  Speaker 2: at one of our events, and that makes their experience
• 1:54:00
  Speaker 2: less pleasant. So I try and balance what makes sense
• 1:54:04
  Speaker 2: to do versus I'll hate myself if I don't take
• 1:54:07
  Speaker 2: this moment.
• 1:54:08
  Speaker 1: Okay, you're showing up at Jingle Balls as a part
• 1:54:11
  Speaker 1: of the team, but generally speaking, you show up at
• 1:54:13
  Speaker 1: a show. Are you working? Are you making sure, okay,
• 1:54:17
  Speaker 1: I'm servicing this person because I know they're paying. I
• 1:54:20
  Speaker 1: know that person, they're not paying. I'll go chat them up.
• 1:54:23
  Speaker 2: I'm not working from that perspective as much as I'm
• 1:54:27
  Speaker 2: working in the sense of making sure people feel good,
• 1:54:31
  Speaker 2: making sure they feel appreciated that they're there. You know,
• 1:54:34
  Speaker 2: if there's a problem that they have that for whatever reason,
• 1:54:37
  Speaker 2: you know, I'm there when they need help with something.
• 1:54:40
  Speaker 2: So I'm working in the sense of making sure everyone's happy,
• 1:54:42
  Speaker 2: but I'm not working, working. Like to your point, I'm
• 1:54:44
  Speaker 2: not trying to sell. I'm not trying to worry about
• 1:54:47
  Speaker 2: the client aspect. It's more about I've been around for
• 1:54:50
  Speaker 2: so long and I've worked so closely with these people.
• 1:54:52
  Speaker 2: There's a blur between even friend and client at this point.
• 1:54:57
  Speaker 2: My mom used to ask me when I was going away,
• 1:54:59
  Speaker 2: are you going for business or pleasure? And I would
• 1:55:00
  Speaker 2: say both because how do you even say you're only
• 1:55:05
  Speaker 2: working and you're not enjoying yourself at Jingle Ball or
• 1:55:07
  Speaker 2: iHeart Festival, some of the most extraordinary music experiences that
• 1:55:10
  Speaker 2: we get to attend, right? So to me, I don't
• 1:55:13
  Speaker 2: even look at it at work.
• 1:55:14
  Speaker 1: So what time do you wake up?
• 1:55:17
  Speaker 2: Probably about 7, give or take.
• 1:55:19
  Speaker 1: And what time do you turn off the phone, so
• 1:55:22
  Speaker 1: to speak?
• 1:55:23
  Speaker 2: Never. If I'm awake.
• 1:55:26
  Speaker 1: No, no. Okay.
• 1:55:27
  Speaker 2: If I'm awake, I'm answering.
• 1:55:29
  Speaker 1: Okay. But let's just, I don't know, everybody's life is different,
• 1:55:33
  Speaker 1: but email is such.
• 1:55:34
  Speaker 2: Like I don't refuse to answer past a certain time.
• 1:55:37
  Speaker 2: If I'm conscious, I'm looking at the phone and if
• 1:55:40
  Speaker 2: I can answer and I see it, I'm answering.
• 1:55:41
  Speaker 1: How about phone ever ring in the middle of the night? really.
• 1:55:46
  Speaker 2: Maybe a couple of times in my life there's been emergencies,
• 1:55:49
  Speaker 2: but not really.
• 1:55:50
  Speaker 1: What time?
• 1:55:51
  Speaker 2: Weekends, nights. I mean, with media base, it rings a
• 1:55:54
  Speaker 2: lot on the weekend. My husband jokes that I could
• 1:55:57
  Speaker 2: be up at three o'clock in the morning making sure
• 1:56:00
  Speaker 2: someone got their number one or, you know, because a
• 1:56:05
  Speaker 2: lightning bolt hit a station somewhere in the Midwest and
• 1:56:10
  Speaker 2: it disrupted the audio. And we don't know if that's
• 1:56:13
  Speaker 2: going to cost someone a number one. And You know,
• 1:56:16
  Speaker 2: so there are times like that that there are emergencies.
• 1:56:18
  Speaker 2: So I would say because of the nature of the
• 1:56:19
  Speaker 2: chart and the fact that it ends on a Saturday
• 1:56:22
  Speaker 2: night and then there's things that happen on Sunday, I
• 1:56:25
  Speaker 2: definitely do a lot on Saturdays and Sundays when needed
• 1:56:28
  Speaker 2: and late at night if necessary, but not always.
• 1:56:39
  Speaker 1: Okay. So what time, assuming you don't have to go
• 1:56:43
  Speaker 1: out to an event, What time does work stop on
• 1:56:47
  Speaker 1: a weekday? Never.
• 1:56:50
  Speaker 2: Not really.
• 1:56:50
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 1:56:51
  Speaker 2: Again, some nights are better than others, right? I guess,
• 1:56:54
  Speaker 2: you know.
• 1:56:55
  Speaker 1: Okay. But for me— You're working— I' m not judging because we're
• 1:56:58
  Speaker 1: all doing the same thing.
• 1:56:59
  Speaker 2: Exactly. This isn't a job. It's a lifestyle, right? Right.
• 1:57:02
  Speaker 1: Exactly. So— It's 24-7. What does your husband do for
• 1:57:06
  Speaker 1: a living?
• 1:57:07
  Speaker 2: He does live event production, so.
• 1:57:10
  Speaker 1: He's— So did you meet him at an event?
• 1:57:11
  Speaker 2: I did not. I met him on Match.com, believe it
• 1:57:13
  Speaker 2: or not.
• 1:57:14
  Speaker 1: Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. How long ago was this?
• 1:57:17
  Speaker 2: This is 14 years.
• 1:57:18
  Speaker 1: 14 years ago was.
• 1:57:22
  Speaker 2: I saw a handsome man on Match.
• 1:57:24
  Speaker 1: I want to go a little— Okay. So you decide
• 1:57:26
  Speaker 1: you're looking for somebody. Was Match the first service you used? No.
• 1:57:32
  Speaker 2: Okay, so I had gone through a breakup, and I
• 1:57:35
  Speaker 2: was crying over it.
• 1:57:36
  Speaker 1: Just to be clear, how long had that relationship gone on?
• 1:57:39
  Speaker 2: A couple of months.
• 1:57:39
  Speaker 1: Oh, okay.
• 1:57:40
  Speaker 2: And I'm older at this point.
• 1:57:42
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:57:42
  Speaker 2: Kind of had a crush on this guy. I spent
• 1:57:45
  Speaker 2: months crying, and we were just laughing about this the
• 1:57:47
  Speaker 2: other day because, like, artists would come in and play songs,
• 1:57:50
  Speaker 2: and I would be like, oh, I love that song.
• 1:57:51
  Speaker 2: And they'd be like, if we have to hear about
• 1:57:53
  Speaker 2: your stupid breakup one more time. It was really becoming
• 1:57:56
  Speaker 2: a thing, so... And spontaneously one night I'm speaking to
• 1:58:00
  Speaker 2: the brother of the guy that broke up with me
• 1:58:02
  Speaker 2: and he mentioned Match.com and I said, you know, everybody's
• 1:58:05
  Speaker 2: kind of sick of this breakup. I'm going to have
• 1:58:07
  Speaker 2: to move on. I'm just going to give this a whirl.
• 1:58:10
  Speaker 2: I'm going to look on Match.com. And I don't know
• 1:58:14
  Speaker 2: how seriously I was taking it, but my husband pops up,
• 1:58:18
  Speaker 2: and he's playing a guitar in the photo. And I
• 1:58:20
  Speaker 2: think to myself, well, I work in radio. Is he
• 1:58:22
  Speaker 2: a musician? I don't know. Maybe he's going to like
• 1:58:24
  Speaker 2: I see he likes music. This could be good. So
• 1:58:26
  Speaker 2: I send one sentence. Hey, it looks like you like music.
• 1:58:30
  Speaker 2: So do I. I don't post pictures, but if you
• 1:58:33
  Speaker 2: want one, I'll send it. He was about to delete
• 1:58:36
  Speaker 2: the because there was no picture and he was about
• 1:58:38
  Speaker 2: to delete it. But he's like, well, you didn't like write. Hey, baby, XOXO.
• 1:58:42
  Speaker 2: There was nothing weird about it. So he was like,
• 1:58:44
  Speaker 2: why no picture? We got into a very funny conversation
• 1:58:47
  Speaker 2: about online dating and the tortures of it. And we
• 1:58:50
  Speaker 2: spoke for about a week. We met up. We were
• 1:58:53
  Speaker 2: engaged six months, married by 11. 14 years later, he
• 1:58:56
  Speaker 2: is the greatest gift ever.
• 1:58:57
  Speaker 1: Okay. Event production at what level?
• 1:59:01
  Speaker 2: He's done stuff for iHeart. He's done stuff for Pepsi.
• 1:59:04
  Speaker 1: He's a stage manager?
• 1:59:05
  Speaker 2: He's an audio video. Mostly he's like a sound guy.
• 1:59:10
  Speaker 2: But he's a little bit more of a project manager,
• 1:59:12
  Speaker 2: a producer at this point because he'll hire out different teams.
• 1:59:16
  Speaker 2: But he ran events at the Harvard Club in New
• 1:59:19
  Speaker 2: York for a long time. So he's done a lot
• 1:59:21
  Speaker 2: of corporate. He's done music.
• 1:59:25
  Speaker 1: Where is he in the age group?
• 1:59:27
  Speaker 2: He's two years older than me. We're age appropriate.
• 1:59:31
  Speaker 1: And so because he's in this world, he's comfortable with
• 1:59:35
  Speaker 1: your lifestyle.
• 1:59:37
  Speaker 2: Yes. I joke he's Canadian, very laid back, the easiest person,
• 1:59:43
  Speaker 2: and a blessing because he supports me in everything I
• 1:59:47
  Speaker 2: do and allows me to 100% be myself. I take
• 1:59:51
  Speaker 2: him a lot on travel when he's able to as
• 1:59:55
  Speaker 2: independent contractor. I don't like to be without him, but...
• 1:59:57
  Speaker 2: I could go off. You know, he never— he' s just super supportive,
• 2:00:01
  Speaker 2: and I appreciate that about him because he just lets
• 2:00:03
  Speaker 2: me be me, and I'm a lot.
• 2:00:05
  Speaker 1: Okay. I know a lot of Canadians go to Canada
• 2:00:07
  Speaker 1: at least once a year. What do I know about Canadians?
• 2:00:12
  Speaker 1: They're very verbal. Is your husband very verbal?
• 2:00:16
  Speaker 2: Verbal in what sense?
• 2:00:17
  Speaker 1: He's— Well, you're very verbal. And usually, the reason I ask,
• 2:00:22
  Speaker 1: too very verbal doesn't work. So I say he must
• 2:00:24
  Speaker 1: be more of a listener.
• 2:00:28
  Speaker 2: Okay, so I'm an ambivert. Okay, so right now you
• 2:00:31
  Speaker 2: think I'm an extrovert.
• 2:00:32
  Speaker 1: Wait, wait, wait. You're a what?
• 2:00:33
  Speaker 2: I'm an ambivert.
• 2:00:34
  Speaker 1: I don't know what that means. I'm an introvert.
• 2:00:35
  Speaker 2: Extrovert all in one person.
• 2:00:37
  Speaker 1: Okay. Just explain what that is and how you are.
• 2:00:40
  Speaker 2: Meaning I could be deathly shy and like so uncomfortable
• 2:00:46
  Speaker 2: with public speaking, with being in certain rooms. And then
• 2:00:50
  Speaker 2: I could be the most outgoing, friendly, talkative, loud person
• 2:00:54
  Speaker 2: at the same time.
• 2:00:55
  Speaker 1: Okay. Where does, where is the switch? Assuming you're in
• 2:00:59
  Speaker 1: the introvert mode, is it Like for me, I'll have
• 2:01:03
  Speaker 1: a lot of anxiety. And then once I get there,
• 2:01:06
  Speaker 1: it could be great. Same. Okay. So it's the same.
• 2:01:08
  Speaker 2: It could be both. Again, I haven't slept for days
• 2:01:14
  Speaker 2: panicking about whether or not I would be able to
• 2:01:16
  Speaker 2: have a good conversation or if I would choke because
• 2:01:19
  Speaker 2: I get like something like this would typically.
• 2:01:21
  Speaker 1: Make me nervous.
• 2:01:22
  Speaker 2: But we're having the greatest time, right? So you wouldn't
• 2:01:24
  Speaker 2: know that about me.
• 2:01:26
  Speaker 1: Based on the degree I know you, the fact that
• 2:01:29
  Speaker 1: you would even think that. I mean, you know, again,
• 2:01:32
  Speaker 1: I'm not saying you didn't think it, but you of
• 2:01:34
  Speaker 1: all people should not be worried about that.
• 2:01:36
  Speaker 2: But, you know, he is a little bit more reserved.
• 2:01:39
  Speaker 2: He doesn't talk just to talk, but he's a great conversationalist.
• 2:01:43
  Speaker 2: And he's someone who's genuinely interested and interesting. We travel
• 2:01:49
  Speaker 2: and we will be in a cab and he can
• 2:01:51
  Speaker 2: talk to anyone about art and politics. And I'm like,
• 2:01:55
  Speaker 2: how does he know all these things? So I respect
• 2:01:59
  Speaker 2: that about him. a great balance to me in that
• 2:02:03
  Speaker 2: a lot of times the light is on me and
• 2:02:06
  Speaker 2: it's about, I heard Melissa and I'm, you know, he's
• 2:02:09
  Speaker 2: in the shadow. And then other times he's stepping up
• 2:02:12
  Speaker 2: and he, I call him a human support animal. And
• 2:02:15
  Speaker 2: he's the one that, making sure the conversation's going well and,
• 2:02:20
  Speaker 2: you know, he's a perfect companion. So we're a good
• 2:02:22
  Speaker 2: balance to each other because he'll talk when he needs to.
• 2:02:25
  Speaker 2: He doesn't talk just to talk. And I'm the loud
• 2:02:28
  Speaker 2: one and I'm very, you know, but we balance each other.
• 2:02:31
  Speaker 1: I consciously didn't want children because I didn't want to
• 2:02:35
  Speaker 1: get diverted from the path. What was your view on children?
• 2:02:40
  Speaker 2: I wanted them, but they... But not so much that
• 2:02:44
  Speaker 2: I was going to do it if it wasn't the
• 2:02:46
  Speaker 2: right situation. And then I just got married later in
• 2:02:49
  Speaker 2: life and it just didn't happen for me.
• 2:02:51
  Speaker 1: Okay. Yeah. So you've achieved a ton. Is there a
• 2:03:00
  Speaker 1: next step in the ladder?
• 2:03:01
  Speaker 2: Sure. You know, I didn't think there was a next step,
• 2:03:05
  Speaker 2: and the fact that I just got the president title
• 2:03:08
  Speaker 2: was a dream come true. So for me, that was
• 2:03:10
  Speaker 2: the next step. I don't know that there's really CEO
• 2:03:13
  Speaker 2: or COO, and I'm not really sure that's something I'm
• 2:03:16
  Speaker 2: going for. I'm very happy with where I am, and
• 2:03:19
  Speaker 2: I love what I do, so I don't know that there's.
• 2:03:21
  Speaker 1: A next step. Let's say a headhunter came, and they say,
• 2:03:24
  Speaker 1: you know, headhunter's looking to fill a role. And they say,
• 2:03:27
  Speaker 1: you know, I have a company, Fortune 500 company. I'm
• 2:03:29
  Speaker 1: going to pay you more. I'm going to pay you
• 2:03:32
  Speaker 1: like 50 to 75 percent more. But it's not music.
• 2:03:37
  Speaker 1: Is that a that means it's a nonstarter or let
• 2:03:39
  Speaker 1: me hear your pitch?
• 2:03:42
  Speaker 2: I would probably hear the pitch and then politely decline again.
• 2:03:47
  Speaker 2: So if we want to go back to my history,
• 2:03:50
  Speaker 2: I was. you know, still scraping change off the floor
• 2:03:53
  Speaker 2: of my car. And I was offered an incredible job
• 2:03:58
  Speaker 2: that was way, way more money and definitely way more prestige.
• 2:04:02
  Speaker 2: And this is very, very early on in my career.
• 2:04:05
  Speaker 2: But I loved the premiere. I loved my bosses. I
• 2:04:08
  Speaker 2: loved what I was doing. So we were much smaller.
• 2:04:11
  Speaker 2: When I started, it was 12 people in the New
• 2:04:13
  Speaker 2: York office. Now you know how big of a company
• 2:04:15
  Speaker 2: we are. And my boss at the time, Craig, was like,
• 2:04:18
  Speaker 2: so when are you leaving? And I said, well, I'm not.
• 2:04:22
  Speaker 2: And he's like, well, what do you mean? Like, we'll
• 2:04:24
  Speaker 2: never be able to pay you that or pay you
• 2:04:25
  Speaker 2: that anytime soon. I said, it's OK. I just love
• 2:04:28
  Speaker 2: it here so much that I'm not going to go.
• 2:04:30
  Speaker 2: And at that moment. I think it was such a
• 2:04:34
  Speaker 2: shock to him that I wasn't taking the job, but
• 2:04:36
  Speaker 2: it was such a statement to him that I think
• 2:04:39
  Speaker 2: from there on forward, I ended up making that much
• 2:04:41
  Speaker 2: times a lot more than I ever thought. And it
• 2:04:45
  Speaker 2: was all because I think the loyalty and the fact
• 2:04:47
  Speaker 2: that early on, I made the decision. I try and
• 2:04:50
  Speaker 2: tell this to interns and people too. At the end
• 2:04:52
  Speaker 2: of the day, money is great, but there's so many
• 2:04:55
  Speaker 2: other factors that have to go into your happiness and
• 2:04:59
  Speaker 2: your fulfillment. And so- I never in my career made
• 2:05:04
  Speaker 2: the decision on money. I made it on gut and
• 2:05:06
  Speaker 2: heart and loyalty and other factors. And I don't know
• 2:05:10
  Speaker 2: if that was smart or not, but thankfully it worked
• 2:05:12
  Speaker 2: out for me.
• 2:05:13
  Speaker 1: Was that other job a radio job?
• 2:05:16
  Speaker 2: It was a little outside. It was like with one
• 2:05:18
  Speaker 2: of the trades, but it was like to take over.
• 2:05:20
  Speaker 2: It was still in the industry, but it wasn't quite.
• 2:05:23
  Speaker 1: So you're going to do this till you die?
• 2:05:30
  Speaker 2: I don't know until I die, but certainly I'll keep
• 2:05:32
  Speaker 2: doing it as long as it makes sense to do it.
• 2:05:34
  Speaker 1: I love it.
• 2:05:35
  Speaker 2: I feel so blessed that I'm 32 years in and
• 2:05:39
  Speaker 2: I wake up every day and I'm still, and I'm
• 2:05:41
  Speaker 2: not saying this in hopes that Bob Pittman's listening to
• 2:05:44
  Speaker 2: this or Tom Pullman. I mean this so genuinely. I
• 2:05:47
  Speaker 2: love what I do. I love the people I do
• 2:05:49
  Speaker 2: it with. I think the people are a big thing.
• 2:05:51
  Speaker 2: Like I have, friends, employees, people I work with that
• 2:05:55
  Speaker 2: are family to me. So because I've been it's very
• 2:05:57
  Speaker 2: rare to be in one place your entire career. So
• 2:06:01
  Speaker 2: I just feel very blessed that every day is a
• 2:06:03
  Speaker 2: different thing. There's always our company's always evolving. There's new initiatives.
• 2:06:08
  Speaker 2: So I'm never bored. I'm always doing something different and
• 2:06:11
  Speaker 2: I still love everyone I work with and everything I do.
• 2:06:14
  Speaker 2: So for me, I don't I've gotten offers over the years.
• 2:06:17
  Speaker 2: But when I sat back and thought about it, I
• 2:06:19
  Speaker 2: was like, I don't I don't know where else I
• 2:06:21
  Speaker 2: would be happier than I am now.
• 2:06:24
  Speaker 1: OK, you talk that you felt rock was underrepresented. Can
• 2:06:29
  Speaker 1: you tell us about any trends that you see coming forward?
• 2:06:33
  Speaker 2: What's old is new. There's a lot of things happening
• 2:06:36
  Speaker 2: right now with AI. It's starting to actually turn the trend.
• 2:06:42
  Speaker 2: I think radio is actually becoming more important again and
• 2:06:47
  Speaker 2: more sought out because people are at a point where
• 2:06:52
  Speaker 2: they don't know what to trust anymore. They don't know
• 2:06:54
  Speaker 2: what's real. They don't know what they're reading if it's true.
• 2:06:58
  Speaker 2: So because we're that trusted source and we're that, you know,
• 2:07:02
  Speaker 2: you can't, create a relationship with an algorithm, but you
• 2:07:05
  Speaker 2: can create a relationship with a person. And I think
• 2:07:07
  Speaker 2: a lot of the listeners look at Elvis Duran as
• 2:07:10
  Speaker 2: their friend. They look at Bobby Bones. They look at
• 2:07:14
  Speaker 2: Ryan Seacrest. They look at a lot of our local
• 2:07:15
  Speaker 2: personalities as their friend. So I'm seeing a tide of
• 2:07:19
  Speaker 2: people turning away from, like we're seeing the younger generation
• 2:07:22
  Speaker 2: doing a little bit less on social media and being
• 2:07:24
  Speaker 2: a little more hesitant about AI. And they want to
• 2:07:27
  Speaker 2: come to a place where they can actually trust the source,
• 2:07:30
  Speaker 2: trust that a human is giving them the information. So
• 2:07:33
  Speaker 2: That's one trend I think is interesting. Cassette tapes are
• 2:07:37
  Speaker 2: having a little bit of a— and CDs.
• 2:07:38
  Speaker 1: Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.
• 2:07:39
  Speaker 2: CDs are having a little bit more of a resurgence.
• 2:07:41
  Speaker 1: The cassette thing, okay. A, it was a flawed medium
• 2:07:46
  Speaker 1: from the get-go.
• 2:07:47
  Speaker 2: I get it.
• 2:07:48
  Speaker 1: Okay. Secondly, somebody sent me a cassette, and it was inside.
• 2:07:57
  Speaker 1: It was actually a Prince recording. You have nowhere to
• 2:07:58
  Speaker 1: play it, right? a very, I had state of the art. Oh,
• 2:08:02
  Speaker 1: I love it. You know, 35 years old. And I said, oh,
• 2:08:05
  Speaker 1: I'm fired. And then it broke. But then I said,
• 2:08:08
  Speaker 1: this is a crazy thing. I was out of town.
• 2:08:13
  Speaker 1: I came back and you get all the mail and
• 2:08:15
  Speaker 1: I'm hearing this sound. I don't really know what the
• 2:08:17
  Speaker 1: hell's going on. I can't figure it out. Finally, I
• 2:08:20
  Speaker 1: tracked it down. It's in the box. So I opened
• 2:08:24
  Speaker 1: up the box, and it was a Walkman with an
• 2:08:27
  Speaker 1: unreleased tape that had a speaker, not every Walkman. It
• 2:08:31
  Speaker 1: just cracked me up. I couldn't figure out what the
• 2:08:34
  Speaker 1: thing was. Now, I am a hoarder, okay?
• 2:08:38
  Speaker 2: Me too.
• 2:08:39
  Speaker 1: And then I said, you know, this is it. I'm
• 2:08:41
  Speaker 1: going to toss it, okay? It was then six months.
• 2:08:45
  Speaker 1: I got this other thing, and I said, well, I
• 2:08:47
  Speaker 1: guess I shouldn't have tossed it, but.
• 2:08:50
  Speaker 1: Who's got a cassette player?
• 2:08:52
  Speaker 2: Not a lot of people. But to your point, people
• 2:08:54
  Speaker 2: are going out and buying. CDs are probably a little
• 2:08:57
  Speaker 2: bit more than cassette, to be honest. And vinyl is hot.
• 2:09:00
  Speaker 1: But my point is there's commerce there.
• 2:09:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 2:09:05
  Speaker 1: But I believe a lot of that is souvenirs as
• 2:09:08
  Speaker 1: opposed to a listening device. I think it's a.
• 2:09:11
  Speaker 2: Souvenir, but it's also a listening experience. I think, again,
• 2:09:15
  Speaker 2: the younger generation is discovering the joy of opening up
• 2:09:20
  Speaker 2: and reading the liner notes and the sound of that,
• 2:09:24
  Speaker 2: you know, the little crackle of a vinyl. Like it
• 2:09:27
  Speaker 2: is a different sound and it's a different experience. And
• 2:09:29
  Speaker 2: so I think, you know, we're seeing a trend even
• 2:09:32
  Speaker 2: in songs where it's like 10 year intervals. So what's
• 2:09:37
  Speaker 2: trends that were hot in 2016 are kind of coming
• 2:09:40
  Speaker 2: back now.
• 2:09:40
  Speaker 1: Give me an example.
• 2:09:44
  Speaker 2: Hairstyles, clothes, songs, bands, like Some of the music from
• 2:09:49
  Speaker 2: 2016 is like just having a big resurgence. So it's
• 2:09:52
  Speaker 2: just like every 10 years, things that like trends kind
• 2:09:55
  Speaker 2: of start recycling again. So you'll see a lot of
• 2:09:57
  Speaker 2: the trends online of people like sharing. Here's my 2016
• 2:10:01
  Speaker 2: and here's my 2026. So it's just like what's old
• 2:10:05
  Speaker 2: is new is kind of coming back. Global music is
• 2:10:08
  Speaker 2: a big thing now. I think music is becoming more
• 2:10:10
  Speaker 2: of a global thing and not just a territory thing.
• 2:10:13
  Speaker 2: So we're seeing a trend in that. Country is still
• 2:10:16
  Speaker 2: big and exploding. Afrobeats is a growing genre. Just trying
• 2:10:24
  Speaker 2: to think if there's anything else. I think also rock
• 2:10:27
  Speaker 2: to some degree is having a resurgence. Not that it
• 2:10:31
  Speaker 2: ever went away, but I think a lot of those
• 2:10:34
  Speaker 2: legacy heritage bands.
• 2:10:35
  Speaker 1: Are— And one of the things, I think all the
• 2:10:43
  Speaker 1: rock acts talk such shit about the streamers that the
• 2:10:47
  Speaker 1: audience doesn't embrace it, which of course to me, that's
• 2:10:49
  Speaker 1: how you get paid, you know?
• 2:10:52
  Speaker 2: But they sell a lot of merch and they sell
• 2:10:54
  Speaker 2: vinyl still.
• 2:10:56
  Speaker 1: You don't have to convince me. And that's, as I say,
• 2:11:03
  Speaker 1: there's certain basics. And if they went back to the basics,
• 2:11:06
  Speaker 1: I could, you know, sometimes you put this stuff on
• 2:11:09
  Speaker 1: and you go, wow, this sounds like so foreign. It
• 2:11:13
  Speaker 1: sounds so good. It's like it would be a breath
• 2:11:15
  Speaker 1: of fresh air. Okay. You are so upbeat, effusive, articulate.
• 2:11:25
  Speaker 1: You ever get depressed?
• 2:11:26
  Speaker 2: You're very nice. Sure, but not a lot. Um, I
• 2:11:32
  Speaker 2: lost both my parents. I don't have either of them.
• 2:11:34
  Speaker 2: But I always say, thank you, Sandy. My mother just
• 2:11:39
  Speaker 2: was one of those people that there was no drama.
• 2:11:43
  Speaker 2: You know, I could have the deepest cunt. She's like, oh, please,
• 2:11:47
  Speaker 2: it's nothing like she. She was so, and in my
• 2:11:50
  Speaker 2: older age, I so appreciate, I didn't understand it when
• 2:11:53
  Speaker 2: I was younger, but as I got older, I appreciated
• 2:11:56
  Speaker 2: that I really don't sweat the small stuff. So if I,
• 2:12:01
  Speaker 2: like anyone else, I'm going to have a bad day,
• 2:12:03
  Speaker 2: I might be upset or depressed or stressed or whatever,
• 2:12:05
  Speaker 2: but I try and put a cap on it and
• 2:12:07
  Speaker 2: I don't let it consume me. So for whatever reason,
• 2:12:10
  Speaker 2: she gave me an incredible... My husband's like, I don't
• 2:12:13
  Speaker 2: really drink either. I'm not a big drinker. He's like,
• 2:12:15
  Speaker 2: I've never seen anyone who can deal with that much
• 2:12:19
  Speaker 2: stress and then just go to sleep at night and
• 2:12:21
  Speaker 2: deal with everything and never have any.
• 2:12:23
  Speaker 1: I was going to ask that because I can't. Yeah.
• 2:12:25
  Speaker 2: And he's fascinated by it. But for some reason, thank you,
• 2:12:28
  Speaker 2: Sandy Pollack, she gave me some kind of ability to
• 2:12:32
  Speaker 2: deal with stress and stuff and and and have a
• 2:12:36
  Speaker 2: perspective on the world that is positive and not let
• 2:12:40
  Speaker 2: the small things kind of okay.
• 2:12:42
  Speaker 1: Let's assume it's 7 30 at night for some reason
• 2:12:47
  Speaker 1: phone's not getting a lot of incoming are you going
• 2:12:51
  Speaker 1: to sit there and say oh you know i'll sit
• 2:12:53
  Speaker 1: i'll watch tv i'll read a book are you going
• 2:12:55
  Speaker 1: to say Got to get some action. Let me call somebody.
• 2:12:59
  Speaker 1: Let me do something.
• 2:13:02
  Speaker 2: I can relax a little bit.
• 2:13:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 2:13:04
  Speaker 2: I mean, I think it's more that I'm available to
• 2:13:07
  Speaker 2: you if you need me. But if nothing's incoming.
• 2:13:12
  Speaker 1: Let me ask it a different way. This is probably
• 2:13:14
  Speaker 1: never going to happen, but I'm setting it up. You
• 2:13:17
  Speaker 1: come to the end of the week, you have nothing
• 2:13:19
  Speaker 1: booked Saturday and Sunday.
• 2:13:21
  Speaker 2: I'm happy.
• 2:13:23
  Speaker 1: You know, it's so rare. I understand you're happy. Right.
• 2:13:26
  Speaker 1: But okay, it's Saturday, put it around the house. You're
• 2:13:30
  Speaker 1: going to be happy, but are you going to wake
• 2:13:31
  Speaker 1: up Sunday and go, I'm ready to go back at it.
• 2:13:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I like to your point, I'm definitely somewhat of
• 2:13:38
  Speaker 2: a workaholic. So I do. I used to say to
• 2:13:41
  Speaker 2: my mom, I work hard, I play hard, I rest hard. So,
• 2:13:45
  Speaker 2: you know, there are times where I need the break
• 2:13:47
  Speaker 2: and I'm happy to literally be in my pajamas Saturday
• 2:13:50
  Speaker 2: and Sunday. But there's only so much downtime I can
• 2:13:53
  Speaker 2: take before I get the itch and I need to
• 2:13:56
  Speaker 2: get back in the action.
• 2:13:57
  Speaker 1: So what do you spend your money on?
• 2:14:00
  Speaker 2: Food, travel. Probably food and travel.
• 2:14:06
  Speaker 1: So where have you been that's interesting?
• 2:14:09
  Speaker 2: I've been to... I think we're up to 55 unique countries. 55?
• 2:14:13
  Speaker 1: 55. Okay. That's a good number of countries. Have you
• 2:14:19
  Speaker 1: consistently gone to different countries or only in the last
• 2:14:22
  Speaker 1: like 10 or 15 years?
• 2:14:23
  Speaker 2: The last 14 since I got married. Do you want
• 2:14:25
  Speaker 2: to hear the sad story, the real story? So... I
• 2:14:29
  Speaker 2: got married. I get married super quick. Within five months of.
• 2:14:33
  Speaker 1: I'm just interested. When you got married, were your parents
• 2:14:35
  Speaker 1: still alive? Yes.
• 2:14:36
  Speaker 2: So that's where we're going with this. So we get married.
• 2:14:39
  Speaker 2: I come home for my honeymoon and my father has
• 2:14:41
  Speaker 2: been diagnosed with stage four lung cancer. He's gone within
• 2:14:44
  Speaker 2: five months of the wedding. So coming up on the
• 2:14:48
  Speaker 2: first season of holidays, I do not want to be
• 2:14:51
  Speaker 2: anywhere in my normal state. So I started... taking us
• 2:14:56
  Speaker 2: to Paris for Thanksgiving. I would want to be literally
• 2:15:00
  Speaker 2: on the other end of the world for any holiday
• 2:15:02
  Speaker 2: because that was my medicine at the time of just
• 2:15:04
  Speaker 2: not wanting to notice he wasn't there. So it started
• 2:15:08
  Speaker 2: this giant chain of us going to travel for the
• 2:15:12
  Speaker 2: first couple of years because that was really my healing
• 2:15:14
  Speaker 2: process of dealing with the loss of my dad. But
• 2:15:17
  Speaker 2: then it became... it became a thing for us. And
• 2:15:20
  Speaker 2: then we just realized we love traveling. And then we,
• 2:15:22
  Speaker 2: so we spent up until the pandemic, like every holiday
• 2:15:26
  Speaker 2: I would be in some other country and I would
• 2:15:29
  Speaker 2: usually try and do different, like sometimes Paris, London, some
• 2:15:33
  Speaker 2: of the obvious ones that had to do business, whatever.
• 2:15:35
  Speaker 2: Those were repeat, but I would try very much to
• 2:15:38
  Speaker 2: see a new country as often as I could. And
• 2:15:41
  Speaker 2: I love it.
• 2:15:42
  Speaker 1: Okay. There's Europe. Scandinavia.
• 2:15:45
  Speaker 2: South Africa is one of the best ever.
• 2:15:47
  Speaker 1: My question is, where have you been a little bit
• 2:15:49
  Speaker 1: more beaten off the beaten path? So South Africa.
• 2:15:52
  Speaker 2: South Africa. I wouldn't say Croatia is off the beaten path.
• 2:15:56
  Speaker 2: I'm trying to think off the beaten path. Canary Islands.
• 2:16:02
  Speaker 2: We just went to the Azores. You know, to your point,
• 2:16:09
  Speaker 2: the country might not be off the beaten path, but
• 2:16:12
  Speaker 2: I don't. I'm not like a normal person who will
• 2:16:14
  Speaker 2: get on a tour bus and go look at churches
• 2:16:16
  Speaker 2: and be with the crowd. I will have us helicopter
• 2:16:21
  Speaker 2: into a winery in New Zealand. I will ride elephants.
• 2:16:25
  Speaker 2: I will walk with lions. I am putting together these
• 2:16:28
  Speaker 2: crazy experiences. I will take us to some small town
• 2:16:32
  Speaker 2: in the middle of you know, whatever country, because there's
• 2:16:35
  Speaker 2: like a cool restaurant or something there. So I've been
• 2:16:39
  Speaker 2: to a lot of, I don't know that I can
• 2:16:41
  Speaker 2: single out, but a lot of small towns in Italy,
• 2:16:43
  Speaker 2: you know, I've just, I really- Well.
• 2:16:45
  Speaker 1: 55 countries, a lot of countries.
• 2:16:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah. So you've been to more than Europe. Yeah, that's
• 2:16:49
  Speaker 2: what I'm saying. I've been to, I'm six continents, so
• 2:16:52
  Speaker 2: I have to do Antarctica. Haven't done Antarctica yet. So that's,
• 2:16:57
  Speaker 2: we got to get that one in.
• 2:16:58
  Speaker 1: Okay. Okay. So Antarctica is on your list.
• 2:17:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, got it. Just because I need to finish the
• 2:17:03
  Speaker 2: seven continents at this point.
• 2:17:04
  Speaker 1: What else is on your list?
• 2:17:06
  Speaker 2: Um, I, I need to now do a little bit
• 2:17:08
  Speaker 2: of like Poland. Um, I regret that I had a
• 2:17:11
  Speaker 2: chance at Russia and didn't do it. So, and I
• 2:17:14
  Speaker 2: also very much regret, um, we had a trip booked
• 2:17:17
  Speaker 2: to Israel and my husband had back surgery and we
• 2:17:20
  Speaker 2: ended up not being able to go. And that was
• 2:17:22
  Speaker 2: right before October 7th. And so obviously I have not
• 2:17:25
  Speaker 2: tried to go back, but I regret not ever getting
• 2:17:28
  Speaker 2: to see that. Um, trying to think what else.
• 2:17:32
  Speaker 1: Okay. Some of these more, you've been to South America. Yeah. Where?
• 2:17:37
  Speaker 2: Buenos Aires, Brazil, Uruguay.
• 2:17:40
  Speaker 1: And all of them, none of them were, you know,
• 2:17:43
  Speaker 1: you worked for it, but it wasn't work. You say,
• 2:17:45
  Speaker 1: I want to go there. Actually, you know, I've been
• 2:17:47
  Speaker 1: to Rio. I've been to a few places. but Colombia.
• 2:17:51
  Speaker 2: Blew my mind because everybody.
• 2:17:54
  Speaker 1: I was with had a family member killed. Oh, no.
• 2:17:57
  Speaker 1: It was really wild. But, okay, Asia, you've been to China.
• 2:18:02
  Speaker 2: China, Japan.
• 2:18:04
  Speaker 1: All that stuff. Yeah, Hong Kong.
• 2:18:06
  Speaker 2: Not Vietnam, so that's another one. I have to do Vietnam, Laos,
• 2:18:09
  Speaker 2: like that kind of area right there.
• 2:18:12
  Speaker 1: Wow, sounds great. Okay, I'll let you off. Let you
• 2:18:17
  Speaker 1: go back to work.
• 2:18:18
  Speaker 2: Maybe five hours isn't long enough for us to talk.
• 2:18:20
  Speaker 1: No, no, no, but... This has been great.
• 2:18:22
  Speaker 2: Thank you so much for having me.
• 2:18:23
  Speaker 1: No, no, I mean, I knew you would be good
• 2:18:26
  Speaker 1: and you delivered.
• 2:18:27
  Speaker 2: Well, thank you.
• 2:18:27
  Speaker 1: Because, you know, first of all, you never know what...
• 2:18:31
  Speaker 1: Some people get mic fright. Very rare, but it happens.
• 2:18:33
  Speaker 1: You know, people can talk all the time and they
• 2:18:35
  Speaker 1: put them in front of a mic, they can't. And
• 2:18:37
  Speaker 1: then other people, no, you say, well... You know, if
• 2:18:42
  Speaker 1: you're interviewing a heritage musician, you go deep into every album,
• 2:18:46
  Speaker 1: et cetera. Other people said, well, you know, how many
• 2:18:48
  Speaker 1: points are there? So I was a little anxious, too.
• 2:18:51
  Speaker 1: I said, I know she's a good talker. I was
• 2:18:54
  Speaker 1: very anxious. But what if it doesn't go? What am
• 2:18:56
  Speaker 1: I going to tell you as well?
• 2:18:57
  Speaker 2: I think our little... Our conversation at, you know, the studio... Right,
• 2:19:03
  Speaker 2: Henson or whatever they're calling it. Henson Studios. I knew
• 2:19:05
  Speaker 2: we had a good rapport. But still, I have stage
• 2:19:08
  Speaker 2: fright and mic fright. I look like I'm easy at this.
• 2:19:11
  Speaker 2: I was.
• 2:19:13
  Speaker 2: So nervous, though. I'm glad it worked out for both
• 2:19:16
  Speaker 2: of us.
• 2:19:17
  Speaker 1: Unjustifiably, you were really great.
• 2:19:20
  Speaker 2: Well, thank you. It's been awesome.
• 2:19:22
  Speaker 1: Till next time, this is Bob Lefsetz.