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Two little boys DEAD after forced back into home with KILLER-DAD · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:00
Speaker 1: Nancy Grace is coming to Fox Nation. I want justice.
0:05
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace available now only on Fox Nation.
0:14
Speaker 1: When your children draw a picture of you, what do
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Speaker 1: they draw? Mine drew me in black tights, tennis shoes
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Speaker 1: and a Braves t shirt. My husband had on his
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Speaker 1: work outfit. We were all holding hands Susan Cox Powell's children,
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Speaker 1: her two little boys, Charlie and Braden, to a picture
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Speaker 1: of Mommy stuffed in a car trunk. And that's just
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Speaker 1: the tip of the iceberg. I mean, Nancy Grace. This
0:41
Speaker 1: is crime Stories. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Does the
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Speaker 1: name Susan Cox or Susan Cox Powell mean anything to you?
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Speaker 1: Does it ring a bell, even a distant bell? Well?
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Speaker 1: I will never forget the name Susan Cox, and I
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Speaker 1: will never forget her face, and I will never forget
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Speaker 1: her two little boys because they're branded into my memory.
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Speaker 1: What happened? Where is Susan Cox? Why did her two
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Speaker 1: little boys have to die? This has been dragging on
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Speaker 1: for several years now and still no answers, and no
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Speaker 1: one has been held accountable. Even if you don't hold
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Speaker 1: anybody accountable, can we just get answers? Can we get
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Speaker 1: the truth. Today, a team is joining me that is
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Speaker 1: being led by Susan's father, Chuck Cox. I'm Nancy Grace.
1:52
Speaker 1: This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us
1:54
Speaker 1: here at Fox Nation and Serious M one eleven the
1:59
Speaker 1: Triumph Channel. Take a listen to this. Why take your
2:04
Speaker 1: two young sons camping after midnight, freezing cold temperatures. Well,
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Speaker 1: we just go out and do things that are fun.
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Speaker 1: But it's after midnight. You know it shouldn't your son's
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Speaker 1: be sleeping. Weren't they sleeping? People who know me know
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Speaker 1: that time is hard for me to keep track of.
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Speaker 1: My tend to be spontaneous. I do things in the
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Speaker 1: spur of the moment. Why not call work the next
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Speaker 1: morning to say, Hey, I was out camping. I'm not
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Speaker 1: going to be in today. To be honest, Saturday was
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Speaker 1: a blur. I was convinced it was still Saturday. Just
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Speaker 1: hearing his voice makes my skin crawl. It just anger
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Speaker 1: just comes up into my neck. Because this beautiful mother,
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Speaker 1: Susan devoted herself to little boys dead. I don't have
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Speaker 1: official word on that, but I know that she's dead
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Speaker 1: at the hands off her husband, and they're two little
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Speaker 1: boys dead. Why you were just hearing our friend at
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Speaker 1: ABC News, Abbe Boudreau speaking to Josh Powell. Joining me
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Speaker 1: an all star panel to try and make sense of
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Speaker 1: it and maybe get some answers today, because right now
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Speaker 1: there is a courtroom battle going on like you have
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Speaker 1: never seen. Joining me Evan Barriott, lawyer on the case
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Speaker 1: working with Susan's dad, and Bremner, high profile lawyer out
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Speaker 1: of Seattle, attorney for Chuck and Judy Cox, the boy's grandparents.
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Speaker 1: Susan's parents. Rose Winquist, private investigator. You can find her
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Speaker 1: at Winkwist as w I n q u I s
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Speaker 1: d Winkwist Investigations dot com. Who's been on the case
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Speaker 1: since the get go. Doctor Daniel Bober. Forensic psychiatrists joining
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Speaker 1: us us out of the Florida jurisdiction. You can find
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Speaker 1: them on Instagram. Doctor Daniel Bober, the medical examiner for
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Speaker 1: the State of Florida. Doctor Tim Gallagher also joining me.
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Speaker 1: Investigative journalist Crime Online Alexis Terres Chuck. Now, this is
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Speaker 1: a reporter that's been around the block a couple of times,
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Speaker 1: intimately familiar with the case, but joining me right now.
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Speaker 1: It is a very special guest who I go so
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Speaker 1: far as to call a friend, Chuck Cox. This is
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Speaker 1: Susan's father, the boy's grandfather, who was leading the fight
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Speaker 1: to save their lives. But because of d facts, CPS,
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Speaker 1: whatever you want to call it, Child Protective Services, who
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Speaker 1: did nothing, even though the alarm was raised over and
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Speaker 1: over and over to them. You had investigators going to
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Speaker 1: CPS begging for help, but it was repeatedly refused, and
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Speaker 1: right now a court battle is raging. To Chuck Cott's
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Speaker 1: Susan's father, Chuck, I've just got to ask you. This
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Speaker 1: is something I've never asked you before. We've been through
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Speaker 1: Susan's disappearance, We've been through Powell's crazy story that he
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Speaker 1: took the boys camping at midnight in freezing temperatures, that
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Speaker 1: when the boys were asked later to draw a picture
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Speaker 1: of Mommy, your daughter, your baby girl, they drew a
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Speaker 1: picture of her in Daddy's car trunk. And I was
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Speaker 1: thinking about that this morning, Chuck, because there are pictures
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Speaker 1: up in our kitchen and their photos that the children
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Speaker 1: have drawn, pictures the children have drawn of their family.
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Speaker 1: And they've got their dad who's huge, tall and wearing
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Speaker 1: always wearing a vest, even if he's gone on work
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Speaker 1: clothes and me in black. It's in a Braves T
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Speaker 1: shirt and it's so perfectly done. That's how they think
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Speaker 1: of us. Your grand boys thought of Mommy in a
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Speaker 1: car trunk with Daddy driving and them in the back seat,
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Speaker 1: and they say, Mommy went into the mines looking for crystals.
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Speaker 1: That's the last time we saw her. But what I
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Speaker 1: want to ask you, Chuck, is when they got married,
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Speaker 1: After Josh and Susan, your daughter got married, when was
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Speaker 1: the first time you thought this guy is weird? I
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Speaker 1: would think when I got a call from from my
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Speaker 1: daughter said they were had driven from the reception over
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Speaker 1: to Steve Powell's house to wash off the car, and
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Speaker 1: they were there. They're supposed to be going on their
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Speaker 1: honeymoon and instead he drives to his father's house so
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Speaker 1: he can wash his car. I thought, what on earth
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Speaker 1: is this guy okay? Right there? That was after the wedding,
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Speaker 1: after the wedding reception, so day one, day one, all
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Speaker 1: right after the wedding reception and Bremner, high profile lawyer
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Speaker 1: out of Seattle, who is the attorney for Chuck and
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Speaker 1: Judy Cox who've been leading the battle for the truth.
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Speaker 1: They were the ones, begging, begging defacts Department Family Children's
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Speaker 1: Services in that jurisdiction to do something. Now the boys
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Speaker 1: are dead, dead at the hands of their father because
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Speaker 1: de facts did nothing. And Bremner, tell me about the
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Speaker 1: courtroom battle that is raging right now. First, thanks for
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Speaker 1: showcasing this case Nancy for so long and supporting the
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Speaker 1: Cox family. Is just you've been fabulous And I an
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Speaker 1: you've met my babies, John, David and Lucy. The thought
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Speaker 1: of Lucy growing up and unwittingly marrying somebody like Josh
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Speaker 1: Powell and ending up in the minds looking for crystals,
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Speaker 1: I mean, it's overwhelming to me what that family has
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Speaker 1: been through. Tell me about the legal battle right now.
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Speaker 1: And we have a case right now, Nancy, against the
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Speaker 1: Department of Child Services CPS, the Lord PTL. Finally somebody's
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Speaker 1: taking them to court right and and it's basically the
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Speaker 1: cases that they ignored so many red flag fans we
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Speaker 1: couldn't even count all of them, and told the jury
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Speaker 1: about that, and they repeated warnings that Josh would kill
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Speaker 1: these kids. Slow down so people like me can even
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Speaker 1: understand what's happening in court right now. We're in the
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Speaker 1: defense case we put on our case and the case
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Speaker 1: is going forward despite of course, the coronavirus out here
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Speaker 1: in the Northwest. And we've had experts come on Nancy
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Speaker 1: to talk about that they had a reunification bias, that
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Speaker 1: safety should have been safety first. But that was basically
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Speaker 1: something right there, right there. Hold on, Anne, you're warped
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Speaker 1: in right now. Doctor Daniel Bober, forensic psychiatrist. You just
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Speaker 1: heard and Brammer state that d facts CPS was hell
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Speaker 1: bet on reunification versus safety. Explain, well, you know what, Nancy.
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Speaker 1: You see this a lot in these reunification cases where
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Speaker 1: the goal is to reunify the kids with the parents,
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Speaker 1: and I think it's a mistake because sometimes the parents
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Speaker 1: are obviously not what's in the best interest of the child,
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Speaker 1: and it actually puts the child in greater jeopardy, especially
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Speaker 1: in this case as we're seeing crime stories with Nancy Grace.
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Speaker 1: Guys joining me right now, Susan Powell's father, Chuck Cox,
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Speaker 1: who's been leaving leading the battle against Department A Child's Services,
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Speaker 1: who he holds responsible for the death of his beautiful
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Speaker 1: little boys, two gorgeous little boys. Branded Charlie, I want
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Speaker 1: you to take a Listen to our friend Abby Bedroau
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Speaker 1: at ABC News interviewing Josh Powell before he murdered the boys.
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Speaker 1: Did you kill your wife? No? Did you have anything
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Speaker 1: to do with the disappearance of your wife? No? Nothing, nothing?
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Speaker 1: What is the truth? People who know me that I'm
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Speaker 1: a good dad. I work hard, I put my son's first.
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Speaker 1: I was a good husband. I took care of my family.
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Speaker 1: I see you're still wearing your wedding band. Yeah you
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Speaker 1: still love her? Yeah? I guess you could say that
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Speaker 1: I still love her. Man. That took a long minute
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Speaker 1: for him to figure out if he loved the mother
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Speaker 1: of his children, the one he killed. Wow. Just hearing
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Speaker 1: the voice of Josh Powell right now, A courtroom battle
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Speaker 1: raging to find out the truth of why defects Child
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Speaker 1: Protective Services never moved to protect the boys. I want
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Speaker 1: you to take a listen to abbdrow over at ABC.
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Speaker 1: She's talking about how Susan Powell, now missing for two years.
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Speaker 1: Take a listen. For nearly two years, authorities have been
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Speaker 1: searching for missing Utah mom Susan Powell. Her husband Josh,
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Speaker 1: whose alibi a midnight winter camping trip with his children,
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Speaker 1: is the only named person of interest by police, but now,
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Speaker 1: in a shocking turn, Susan's father in law, Stephen Powell,
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Speaker 1: has been arrested following a search of his Washington State home.
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Speaker 1: Police say thousands of lewed images of women and children
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Speaker 1: as young as eight were discovered by police on computers
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Speaker 1: and DVDs inside Stephen Powell's home. There are pictures of
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Speaker 1: girls and showers on toilets taken a bath. Among that material,
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Speaker 1: police say secretly recorded videos and photos of Susan Powell,
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Speaker 1: allegedly taken by her own father in law. We also
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Speaker 1: have pictures of Susan Cox Powell that she probably doesn't
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Speaker 1: know her taken. Powell shares his home with his son Josh,
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Speaker 1: as well as Josh and Susan's two young sons. Since
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Speaker 1: Stephen Powell's arrest, the boys had been removed from the
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Speaker 1: house and are in protective custody. Powell pleaded not guilty
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Speaker 1: to fourteen counts of voyeurism and one count of possession
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Speaker 1: of child pornography. So let me understand this to Evan Baryalt,
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Speaker 1: the lawyer on the case led by Chuck Cox, Susan's dad.
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Speaker 1: Even though Josh Powell is the suspect, the only suspect
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Speaker 1: in his wife, Susan's murder. D facts let the boys
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Speaker 1: still live with the father, and when a judge found
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Speaker 1: probable cause to search the home relating to Susan's disappearance,
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Speaker 1: they find child pornography. They find laying around for the
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Speaker 1: boys to see, pornography I've read your brief carefully, including
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Speaker 1: a photos of a woman, a young woman with a
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Speaker 1: sword plunged through her vagina. They found a noose, just
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Speaker 1: so much wrong in the home. And that's where the
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Speaker 1: boys have been living, these two little boys, Evan, that's correct,
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Speaker 1: that's where those boys were living. And throughout this dependency,
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Speaker 1: as the state continued to give Josh more and more,
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Speaker 1: none of these safety concerns diminished. In fact, the state
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Speaker 1: found out there were more images. There was cartoon porn
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Speaker 1: that they found on a computer in Utah, so it worsened.
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Speaker 1: And yet here the state was continuing to try and
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Speaker 1: give Josh more and more, and they were learning that
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Speaker 1: Josh was lying through his teeth. People in the community,
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Speaker 1: his family, others were saying, Josh is lying to you.
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Speaker 1: And yet here's the state giving Josh that much more,
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Speaker 1: trying to reunify these kids, not following these policies and
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Speaker 1: putting these kids in harm's way. And Rose Winkquist with
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Speaker 1: me private an investigator at winkqwist Investigations dot com. Rose,
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Speaker 1: we hear about childhorn in the home, pornography where women
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Speaker 1: are being murdered, laying out, not a disc, not on
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Speaker 1: a computer, but laying out and I guess magazine a
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Speaker 1: photographic form for the boys, the little boys to see that.
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Speaker 1: But we also learned Rose Winquist that the purv grandfather,
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Speaker 1: Stephen Powell, who was also living in the home, had
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Speaker 1: thousands of voyeurs photos where he would take pictures and
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Speaker 1: videos of women unsuspecting when they were changing clothes, when
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Speaker 1: they were in the bathroom, including photos of dead Susan
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Speaker 1: Cox Powell. As a matter of fact, isn't it true
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Speaker 1: that her underwear had been taken out of the dirty
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Speaker 1: clothes hamper and he, the father in law, had that
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Speaker 1: and he would lay out her underwear on the bed
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Speaker 1: with a picture of her head at the top and
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Speaker 1: formed like a pillow body for him to let me say,
15:39
Speaker 1: euphemistically make out with yeah, yes, that's not that's absolutely right, Nancy.
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Speaker 1: Thank you. By the way, for following this for ten years.
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Speaker 1: If you can imagine from an investigative standpoint, you know,
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Speaker 1: Judge Powell was the only person of interest. Now, of
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Speaker 1: course people are using the word suspect in the disappearance
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Speaker 1: and probable murder of Susan Cox style. He left Utah
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Speaker 1: only three weeks after her disappearance to move in with
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Speaker 1: his pervy father, whose creepy fixation on Susan was unparalleled
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Speaker 1: as far as I'm concerned. Again, you're right he had
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Speaker 1: photographs of Susan and video of Susan that she had
16:28
Speaker 1: no idea he was taking of her. How did he
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Speaker 1: do it? Like through the window or through a Pete
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Speaker 1: pole camera? How did he do it? You know, through
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Speaker 1: the crack in the door, through any means he could
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Speaker 1: figure out away? And then of course, you know, a
16:44
Speaker 1: search warrant was finally served on his house in September
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Speaker 1: of twenty eleven. This was from twenty one months after
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Speaker 1: Susan disappeared. The police described this house as a house
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Speaker 1: of horror. You can imagine there were there was a
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Speaker 1: bag of fingernail clippings and I know I heard that,
17:08
Speaker 1: Am Bremner. I don't get the sandwich bag of hair
17:11
Speaker 1: and fingernail clippings. It's just I can't imagine what that
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Speaker 1: was for or to whom they belong. But all this culminates.
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Speaker 1: I want you to take a listen to a nine
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Speaker 1: one one call made by the social worker Elizabeth Griffin Hall.
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Speaker 1: Now this is after she hands the boys back over
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Speaker 1: to Daddy on a silver platter. Listen, I man, where
17:38
Speaker 1: you calling up? Then one nine night cry? You want
17:53
Speaker 1: the hell? Yeah? There was a man children I could
17:58
Speaker 1: dropped off the Kenny wouldn't let me the door. I'm
18:02
Speaker 1: gonna get them on the line. You knock hang up home.
18:07
Speaker 1: I can hear the fire? Can I hear? Yet? It's
18:09
Speaker 1: eighty one nine there? Why we haven't ended there? And
18:16
Speaker 1: the people the thing, they've got somebody here, but I
18:19
Speaker 1: wasn't fifth there. I'm gonna if somebody here. There's two
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Speaker 1: little boys in the house and they're five and seven,
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Speaker 1: and there's an adult man. He has took a light
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Speaker 1: hesitation and he blew up the house and the kid,
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Speaker 1: the kids and the husband and the father. What you have? Yeah? Yeah,
18:34
Speaker 1: he found the door in my face. So I kept knocking.
18:37
Speaker 1: I thought it was gonna think. I kept knocking and
18:39
Speaker 1: then I called nine one one and that it's why
18:43
Speaker 1: we're so angry. That is why we're so angry. Joining
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Speaker 1: me Susan's dad, Chut Cuts. I remember when I first
18:52
Speaker 1: saw this image, the video of the home in flames,
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Speaker 1: and at first I understood that Josh Powell had blown
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Speaker 1: up his home, and then I was told the boys
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Speaker 1: were in there. Chuck, do you remember that moment when
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Speaker 1: you got word you'd already lost your daughter years before
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Speaker 1: because he killed her and was never brought to justice
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Speaker 1: and was given the opportunity to have these boys. Do
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Speaker 1: you remember when you learned about the explosion, Chuck? I
19:23
Speaker 1: remember the learning about it, not believing it, and then
19:26
Speaker 1: standing there at the house of watching what was left
19:32
Speaker 1: of the flames, or not the flames, but the smoke
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Speaker 1: that was rising. The police had ended fire out, and
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Speaker 1: just asking myself what more could I possibly have done?
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Speaker 1: And I could not think of anything. I had warned
19:46
Speaker 1: people and they dsahs people refused to listen to my warnings,
19:51
Speaker 1: and I asked the police to rest him and they
19:54
Speaker 1: said they couldn't. They were legal. There was always excuses,
19:58
Speaker 1: there's always issues, but I couldn't. I did everything I
20:02
Speaker 1: could do to save our grandchildren. Hi, guys, Nancy Grace here,
20:14
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20:46
Speaker 1: and Exploited Children. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace with me
20:58
Speaker 1: right now. The dad of Susan Cox Powell, who has
21:03
Speaker 1: searched for answers for years, and his beautiful daughter, one
21:08
Speaker 1: of the best mothers you'd ever hope to find, Susan Cox.
21:13
Speaker 1: Her disappearance has plagued him, but now misery has been
21:18
Speaker 1: heaped on him, pain like I can't even imagine the
21:24
Speaker 1: pain he has suffered when he learns the man who
21:28
Speaker 1: killed his daughter, his son in law, allowed to keep
21:32
Speaker 1: the boys murders them. Mister Cox, you said you tried
21:41
Speaker 1: to warn people. I know that the two investigators had
21:48
Speaker 1: worked so hard they even went and begged Chop Protective
21:52
Speaker 1: Services to take the boys away because they were so
21:56
Speaker 1: afraid who did you warn Chuck and what happened? I
22:02
Speaker 1: warned everybody who would listen to me. I started with
22:05
Speaker 1: the police because they were first working on the case
22:09
Speaker 1: against Josh. Then when the boys came under the control
22:14
Speaker 1: of Child Protective Services DHS, I warned the case worker,
22:20
Speaker 1: and then I talked to the Guardian ad litem and
22:24
Speaker 1: provided them evidence and tried to do everything because they were,
22:28
Speaker 1: of course in the control of the state. So I
22:30
Speaker 1: worked to everybody that I was supposed to work with
22:34
Speaker 1: to try and get the point across that Josh could
22:37
Speaker 1: kill these boys, and I wanted to get them safe
22:40
Speaker 1: and out of that house of horrors, which we had accomplished,
22:46
Speaker 1: but I was ignored. Take a listen to CBS Needs
22:49
Speaker 1: correspondent Ben Tracy, and I want you to brace yourselves.
22:53
Speaker 1: As Arson investigators continued to search through what's left of
22:56
Speaker 1: the Powell home, the medical examiner now says seven year
23:00
Speaker 1: old Charlie in five year old Braden Powell suffered chop
23:03
Speaker 1: injuries to their head and necks. The sheriff says their father,
23:07
Speaker 1: Josh Powell, then started the house on fire. They found
23:10
Speaker 1: two five gallon cans of gas, one of them was
23:13
Speaker 1: with the bodies. The other one we believe was spread
23:15
Speaker 1: throughout the house. There was accelerants throughout the whole entire
23:19
Speaker 1: house police see. Before he carried out the murder suicide,
23:22
Speaker 1: Powell donated his son's toys to charity and left instructions
23:26
Speaker 1: about his personal effects in multiple emails. He sent some
23:29
Speaker 1: emails out to family and a pastor and some other people,
23:33
Speaker 1: making sure that everybody knew that he was gone and
23:36
Speaker 1: he was the one that did this. He had put
23:38
Speaker 1: a plan in motion and he carried it out. Powell
23:41
Speaker 1: had been under police scrutiny following the suspicious disappearance of
23:44
Speaker 1: his wife, Susan Cox Powell, from their Utah home in
23:47
Speaker 1: December two thousand and nine. Six days ago, he lost
23:50
Speaker 1: a battle with Susan's parents for custody of his sons too.
23:54
Speaker 1: Doctor Tim Gallagher, the medical examiner for the state of Florida.
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Speaker 1: How in the world could medical examiners determine that Charlie
24:04
Speaker 1: and Braden, just seven to five years old, had chop
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Speaker 1: marks to their necks. Well, that's a difficult question to answer.
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Speaker 1: You know, it would depend on the extent of the
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Speaker 1: burn injuries. But typically what we find are the victims
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Speaker 1: are on the floor of the residents that is engulfed
24:22
Speaker 1: in flames, and meanwhile the fire is above them. So
24:25
Speaker 1: they do get thermal injuries or they do get heat
24:28
Speaker 1: burns on their body. But it's not as disfiguring as
24:33
Speaker 1: one would imagine looking at the video. I just watched
24:36
Speaker 1: the video myself. So there are many, many cases of
24:41
Speaker 1: the injuries of presenting themselves in these bodies that have
24:45
Speaker 1: been tragically burned, like these two boys. But how with
24:49
Speaker 1: a burned body could you decipher chop marks to the neck?
24:53
Speaker 1: Chop marks to the neck can be deciphered quite easily
24:56
Speaker 1: by looking at the vertebra or the bones in the neck,
25:00
Speaker 1: and you can see the instrument marks on the bone
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Speaker 1: of the neck, and that would lead one to believe
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Speaker 1: that is a chop marking. You could also coordinate that
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Speaker 1: injury with the injuries that you find in other parts
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Speaker 1: of the body, for instance, the skull, and a chop
25:19
Speaker 1: mark to the skull leaves a very distinctive pattern, and
25:23
Speaker 1: in this instance that pattern was preserved and the medical
25:26
Speaker 1: examiner who did the case concluded that that was a
25:29
Speaker 1: chop mark in the head and such. Again, the chop
25:33
Speaker 1: mark in the neck. Both of them coordinated with each other.
25:37
Speaker 1: We also learned that the official cause of death was
25:41
Speaker 1: carbon monoxide poison, but I find that difficult to believe
25:44
Speaker 1: if they actually sustained chop marks to the neck and skull.
25:49
Speaker 1: Alexa Terrestia joining me Crack investigative journalist, Crime online dot Com.
25:54
Speaker 1: Alexis what leads me to this point to is lawsuit
26:01
Speaker 1: the family has finally they tried Chuck and Judy Cocks.
26:06
Speaker 1: They tried almost immediately after the children were killed to
26:10
Speaker 1: file a lawsuit to get DSHS to take responsibility for this.
26:14
Speaker 1: They filed a lawsuit, it was thrown out there. They
26:16
Speaker 1: have finally been allowed to have it back and the
26:19
Speaker 1: trial has started, and what they are asking for is
26:24
Speaker 1: not punished. Well. The judge has said the woman who
26:26
Speaker 1: was there, the original woman, cannot be prosecuted, the child
26:31
Speaker 1: second services woman that allowed the children to go into
26:35
Speaker 1: the homes they ran ahead. Although I'm wondering if Josh
26:37
Speaker 1: Powell told those children he was so manipulative, if he
26:41
Speaker 1: told them, next time you come over running a daddy's
26:43
Speaker 1: house first, I bet he was planning it that far
26:46
Speaker 1: in advanced. But they are finally having their day in
26:49
Speaker 1: court because they have to be held responsible. Nobody can
26:53
Speaker 1: be allowed to let children be abused and murdered in
26:56
Speaker 1: this way. Detectives have testified on the stand. You know what,
27:00
Speaker 1: and Bremner, we're hearing Alexei's Terreschuk joining us describing what's
27:04
Speaker 1: happening in court right now. Just a war between the
27:07
Speaker 1: gods going on where CPS Choppartative Services is actually thanks
27:13
Speaker 1: to Chuck Cox, Susan's dad, the boy's grandfather, trying to
27:19
Speaker 1: hold them accountable for what they did. Now Alex's Terreschuck
27:23
Speaker 1: is absolutely correct. A higher court rule that the CPS
27:27
Speaker 1: workers couldnt be held accountable individually, but as far as
27:33
Speaker 1: the entire CPS, you got a shot at that. Now
27:38
Speaker 1: take a listen to this, and Bremner, this is Chris
27:41
Speaker 1: Cuomo speaking when he was at ABC. Take a listen
27:45
Speaker 1: to what he learns. When Elizabeth Griffinhall brought Brayden and
27:49
Speaker 1: Charlie Powell to see their father last Sunday, the boys
27:52
Speaker 1: were excited to go as usual until that afternoon. She'd
27:55
Speaker 1: only ever witnessed a father who loved his sons. But
27:59
Speaker 1: then Josh, I will open the door, and everything changed.
28:02
Speaker 1: Did you did the door open? Did you see Josh?
28:05
Speaker 1: I saw Josh. I saw Josh for just one second.
28:08
Speaker 1: His eyes caught mine and he had a look in
28:12
Speaker 1: his eyes. It was just kind of sheepish, and he
28:14
Speaker 1: just shrugged his shoulders at me like that, and then
28:17
Speaker 1: he slammed the door, and I I thought that was
28:20
Speaker 1: an accident, that he didn't mean to lock me out,
28:24
Speaker 1: and so I knocked and I knocked, and I rang
28:26
Speaker 1: the doorbell and I started. I started yelling at Josh,
28:29
Speaker 1: let me in, and then she smelled gas and rushed
28:32
Speaker 1: to call nine one one. We'll have somebody in the pot.
28:34
Speaker 1: You there, Okay? How long will it be? I don't know. Man.
28:37
Speaker 1: They have to respond to emergency like Britney situation first,
28:41
Speaker 1: the first available deputy could be like that. So you're
28:44
Speaker 1: telling the nine one one dispatcher this is the this
28:46
Speaker 1: is an emergency, this is a big deal. There are kids,
28:48
Speaker 1: and what are you getting from the other side? I'm
28:51
Speaker 1: getting how can you be? Who's your supervisor? Crime Stories
29:07
Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace guys the Case of Susan Cox Powell's
29:19
Speaker 1: Murder and the Murders offer two little boys, Charlie and Braden,
29:24
Speaker 1: has heated up in a court of law. It is
29:27
Speaker 1: a war between the gods. As Susan's dad and mom
29:32
Speaker 1: take on CPS Child Protective Services for their grandchildren being
29:39
Speaker 1: back in the home of a killer their son in law,
29:43
Speaker 1: Josh Powell. The boys end up dead dead because of
29:49
Speaker 1: what CPS did working in tandem with Josh Powell. Take
29:55
Speaker 1: a listen to our friends at Fox News Seattle. This
29:58
Speaker 1: is Olivia la Voice. It's been eight years since Chuck
30:02
Speaker 1: Cox saw his grandchildren for the last time. His emotions
30:06
Speaker 1: still raw when discussing pulling up to Josh Powell's Graham
30:09
Speaker 1: home engulfed in flames and running to a firefighter. I
30:14
Speaker 1: asked him that the boys were in there, and he
30:17
Speaker 1: said yes. Chuck Cox described trying to process his emotions
30:21
Speaker 1: in that moment. He said he recalls saying out loud,
30:25
Speaker 1: what more could I have done? I was thinking, I
30:29
Speaker 1: tried so hard to keep them safe. I tried to
30:34
Speaker 1: do everything. I did everything that I was asked and
30:38
Speaker 1: more so. And I told everyone I could tell of
30:42
Speaker 1: my fears and the danger. And still here I am
30:46
Speaker 1: looking looking at this building and powerless to say to
30:51
Speaker 1: the boys. This opened up testimony that is really the
30:54
Speaker 1: heart of this case, Chuck Cox's attempts to get DSHS
30:58
Speaker 1: social workers to see the danger he felt the boys
31:01
Speaker 1: were in around Josh danger. You darn right, Susan Cox
31:05
Speaker 1: is dead, and listen to the findings that were made
31:08
Speaker 1: when the search warrant was executed in the home. They
31:12
Speaker 1: found very sophisticated child porn on fifteen computers and laying
31:17
Speaker 1: around porn lying out in the open. In the home
31:22
Speaker 1: where the boys were. Josh Powell had a gallows hangman's
31:26
Speaker 1: noose in his room with a picture of a woman
31:30
Speaker 1: with a sword in her vagina coming out of her
31:33
Speaker 1: stomach for the boys to see. Josh Powell known to
31:37
Speaker 1: run around the home wearing nothing but a diaper. Josh
31:44
Speaker 1: Powell remained a suspect in child porn and voyeurism, yet
31:49
Speaker 1: Child Protective Services allowed these two little boys back in
31:53
Speaker 1: the home of a suspected killer too. Susan's dad, tell
32:00
Speaker 1: me what you want to happen, Chuck Cox, What do
32:04
Speaker 1: you want out of this lawsuit? First, we want DSHS
32:08
Speaker 1: to recognize their error and to change how they're treating
32:15
Speaker 1: these cases and how they treat domestic violence issues so
32:20
Speaker 1: that no other family has to go through this, you know, Chuck,
32:24
Speaker 1: I hate even playing or describing what happened to the
32:30
Speaker 1: boys when you hear that. I know that when somebody
32:36
Speaker 1: brings up facts about my fiance's martyr and I'm not
32:40
Speaker 1: ready for it, it's like someone has thrown cold water
32:43
Speaker 1: on me. I can be having a perfectly great day
32:47
Speaker 1: with my children, John, David and Lucy, or David my husband,
32:52
Speaker 1: and then somebody brings that up out of the blue,
32:54
Speaker 1: and it's it's still to this day, stops me in
32:59
Speaker 1: my tracks. What is this trial doing to you? As
33:04
Speaker 1: you have to hear this evidence day in day out.
33:08
Speaker 1: Every time we do hear the evidence, or they bring
33:11
Speaker 1: up some fact right or wrong, or it's close enough
33:16
Speaker 1: that it brings us right back to where we were
33:19
Speaker 1: that day and to the frustration we felt, and to
33:24
Speaker 1: the loss of our children and the grief that we felt.
33:27
Speaker 1: It all comes flooding back in. You know, I thought
33:30
Speaker 1: I knew it all about grief after Keith was murdered,
33:34
Speaker 1: But now that I finally you know, just as the
33:39
Speaker 1: window was closing, I got married and had children, and
33:46
Speaker 1: the thought that one of them would be hurt much
33:49
Speaker 1: less endear what these two boys went through. I really
33:55
Speaker 1: can hardly think about it, Chuck to Anne Bremner, You've
34:00
Speaker 1: been working this case so long, and it really goes
34:03
Speaker 1: to show your work and should affirm that. As much
34:10
Speaker 1: as there are lawyer jokes floating around, and it's easy
34:14
Speaker 1: to take a botshot at lawyers and judge as I
34:16
Speaker 1: get it, you've been dedicated to this case from the
34:21
Speaker 1: beginning and you've never let go what's happening in the
34:26
Speaker 1: courtroom right now, and and at the end of this case,
34:30
Speaker 1: what do you want, an Bremner, Well, Nancy, you've been
34:33
Speaker 1: with us all along the way, and I think just
34:35
Speaker 1: like the family, putting one foot in front of the
34:37
Speaker 1: other in the hopes that there's going to be justice
34:40
Speaker 1: at last, and this jury has a chance to make
34:42
Speaker 1: history to make sure this never happens again, and we
34:45
Speaker 1: have accountability. We're in the defense case right now. We're
34:48
Speaker 1: hearing from all kinds of different people, including experts, about
34:51
Speaker 1: why this and why that. But the bottom line is
34:54
Speaker 1: is that they failed in their duties to these children. Oh,
34:57
Speaker 1: they fail so horribly, Anne, they did, and it's it's
35:02
Speaker 1: it's it's it's very frustrating a course, but also heartening
35:06
Speaker 1: to be part of this and to represent Chuck and
35:08
Speaker 1: his family in a quest for justice. It's the most
35:11
Speaker 1: important case I've ever had, and I hope there's a
35:13
Speaker 1: legacy for Charley and Braden, for children not just in
35:17
Speaker 1: Washington State, but all over this country that they won't
35:19
Speaker 1: be in harm's way when they're in the care, custody
35:22
Speaker 1: and control of Child Protective Services. You know, Evan and buriall.
35:26
Speaker 1: This is the first time I've gotten to speak with
35:28
Speaker 1: you personally, but I gotta tell you this is one
35:32
Speaker 1: heck of a brief and we have posted it at
35:37
Speaker 1: crime online dot com because it's an incredible brief that
35:41
Speaker 1: you guys put together. Evan, if you win this case,
35:46
Speaker 1: what are you asking for? Proud Nancy, thank you first
35:49
Speaker 1: for the compliment. I really appreciate that. At the end
35:54
Speaker 1: of the day, we want change, We want d SAHS,
35:57
Speaker 1: we want CPS to change the way it does things,
36:00
Speaker 1: and it needs to realize that it cannot act on
36:03
Speaker 1: reunification at all costs. It says under the law that
36:07
Speaker 1: child safety is number one, and DSHS CPS needs to
36:11
Speaker 1: put child safety number one. Those rules, those guidelines are
36:16
Speaker 1: there to protect children, to prevent events just like this.
36:21
Speaker 1: The state had guidelines in place to prevent this from happening.
36:25
Speaker 1: This never should have happened. It shouldn't happen to any child.
36:29
Speaker 1: It is under the chrocust in control of the state
36:31
Speaker 1: and it needs to stop. We can't have any more
36:34
Speaker 1: child deaths. And this is an opportunity for a jury
36:39
Speaker 1: to tell the state this is not going to happen again.
36:41
Speaker 1: You need to turn it around. Now back to Chuck Cox,
36:45
Speaker 1: Susan's dad. Chuck, you are intimately familiar with many, many
36:53
Speaker 1: more case files than I have. You were there. What
36:58
Speaker 1: do you think Josh did with Susan the specifics. My
37:04
Speaker 1: suspicion was he poisoned her, incapacity in her was something
37:09
Speaker 1: and her food, and then from there on I still
37:14
Speaker 1: have issues. I think he probably stuck her somewhere where
37:17
Speaker 1: she died, but I don't know, and then he got
37:21
Speaker 1: rid of the body somehow. But that's that's what I'm thinking.
37:25
Speaker 1: But you know, at this point, whatever we do is
37:28
Speaker 1: not going to bring Susan back, or even Charlie and Braden.
37:32
Speaker 1: But what I plan to do is when the courts
37:37
Speaker 1: hopefully change what DSHS does. And obviously The only thing
37:41
Speaker 1: we can get is as some kind of a judgment,
37:43
Speaker 1: and we plan to use any judgment to increase our
37:46
Speaker 1: efforts to help others to prevent this and to create
37:50
Speaker 1: a legal defense fund for people who are dealing with
37:52
Speaker 1: dshs so that people will have a voice and we
37:56
Speaker 1: can protect more children. I mean, that's that's what we
37:59
Speaker 1: can do. Is a legacy suit to Charlie and Braden,
38:01
Speaker 1: and a service which is Susan's legacy, is service to
38:07
Speaker 1: others to try and help others who are trapped in
38:10
Speaker 1: domestic violence and are not aware of these things, to
38:14
Speaker 1: bring this stuff to light. And that's why we really
38:17
Speaker 1: appreciate your interest in the case, and that's why we're fighting.
38:21
Speaker 1: And to Anne Bremner or Evan Buriot, Rose Wind Quiz,
38:24
Speaker 1: doctor Daniel Bob or doctor Tim Gallagher, Alexis Tres, Chuck
38:28
Speaker 1: and all of you, whenever you are tired or you're
38:31
Speaker 1: weary and you feel like you can't take another step
38:34
Speaker 1: or keep fighting, remember what Chuck Cox is saying. We
38:40
Speaker 1: can make a difference. We are all watching that courtroom
38:47
Speaker 1: and praying for the right outcome. Godspeed Nancy Gray's Crime Story,
38:54
Speaker 1: signing off, Goodbye, friend, one