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The Misogyny of Third Wave Emo and Pop Punk · Stuff Mom Never Told You

0:05
Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha, and welcome to stuff
0:07
Speaker 1: I've never told your production of IHI Radio. Before we
0:19
Speaker 1: get too deep into this episode, just a quick trigger
0:21
Speaker 1: warning that we are going to be talking about some
0:23
Speaker 1: instances of sexual assaults, abuse and things that are related
0:27
Speaker 1: to that. So if that is a trigger for you,
0:30
Speaker 1: also some violence in these songs. If that is a
0:33
Speaker 1: trigger for you, then here's your warning. Just so you know. Samantha,
0:38
Speaker 1: were you ever into emo or pop punk music? Oh? Yeah,
0:42
Speaker 1: oh yeah, I definitely was that girl who felt all
0:45
Speaker 1: those emo motions. Of course, like you couldn't tell by
0:49
Speaker 1: what I would wear. I wasn't that into it, but yeah,
0:52
Speaker 1: I definitely had some dashboard confessional and all of these
0:55
Speaker 1: such in my repertoire. What about you, Oh oh yes,
1:01
Speaker 1: I was so into it. I did wear the clothes,
1:04
Speaker 1: I did the eye makeup, I had the studied felt.
1:07
Speaker 1: I painted my nails like black and red. For a while,
1:11
Speaker 1: all I wore was pretty much black with like accents
1:14
Speaker 1: of red in it. And this was when I was
1:16
Speaker 1: in high school. This is when I was super into it,
1:18
Speaker 1: and I I remember introducing my very very confused high
1:25
Speaker 1: school teacher to the term emo and she was like,
1:27
Speaker 1: I guess I'll add that to my dictionary. And I
1:33
Speaker 1: got some autographs. I interviewed Gerard Way of my Chemical Romance,
1:37
Speaker 1: but that was I was dressed as when Your Soldier.
1:39
Speaker 1: That was much later. Um, I joined an emo band
1:42
Speaker 1: of my own, and I still feel very nostalgic for
1:46
Speaker 1: a lot of these songs. I've seen them at karaoke.
1:48
Speaker 1: I listened to them when I'm sad I need to
1:50
Speaker 1: built something out. I still have the band shirts. But yeah,
1:54
Speaker 1: since I've gotten older and more and more allegations have
1:56
Speaker 1: come out, largely about male members of these bands of
2:00
Speaker 1: abuse and grimming sexual assault, it has kind of made
2:03
Speaker 1: it harder to listen to some of this music, especially
2:05
Speaker 1: if the lyrics are kind of stockery or abusive. And
2:11
Speaker 1: it's especially complicated because I did form a lot of
2:13
Speaker 1: close bonds with women over this music and over these concerts,
2:18
Speaker 1: and I mean we still talk about like all of
2:22
Speaker 1: the music vessels we went to and now we've made
2:24
Speaker 1: it all these different Green Day concerts, which they're slightly different,
2:27
Speaker 1: I will say them what we're talking about here, but
2:29
Speaker 1: they had an emo phase. And yeah, now knowing that
2:34
Speaker 1: there is a lot of abuse within this world and
2:37
Speaker 1: that has made some of it uncomfortable. And I did
2:39
Speaker 1: listen to a lot of songs from my youth for
2:43
Speaker 1: this and it it brought back the memory as it should. Uh.
2:47
Speaker 1: My partner and I sat one day and listen to
2:50
Speaker 1: a lot of the nineties, uh in early two thousand
2:53
Speaker 1: songs that we used to love, including like Coheed and
2:57
Speaker 1: Cambria and all of that. And for some reason, a
2:59
Speaker 1: lot lot of that led into like Christian alternatives and
3:04
Speaker 1: so I have because I grew up as a high
3:06
Speaker 1: schooler who was all about Jesus that I had all
3:11
Speaker 1: of that music because I was super cool. So I'm
3:20
Speaker 1: going to leave it at that. But like that was
3:22
Speaker 1: the same thing. And a lot of the things that
3:25
Speaker 1: we're talking about about the misogyny was in these little
3:28
Speaker 1: Christian punk bands that made me go, what you would
3:32
Speaker 1: think that wouldn't be the case. Let's be honest, Like,
3:34
Speaker 1: there's a lot of hypocrisy, and we know this, and
3:36
Speaker 1: if you've been a part of that culture, you understood that.
3:39
Speaker 1: But it still was so disappointing when you read half
3:43
Speaker 1: of the things that you're like, yeah, and it's it's
3:47
Speaker 1: strange when you because this was a very formative time
3:50
Speaker 1: for me, like that I identified with the music so closely,
3:54
Speaker 1: and then you listen to it as an adult and
3:55
Speaker 1: you're like, wow, this is really violent and hateful towards
3:58
Speaker 1: the women, right wow, And I guess I didn't there
4:03
Speaker 1: was something at the time heavy quotes romantic about feeling
4:06
Speaker 1: that level of emotion. It is and you won't really
4:13
Speaker 1: just want to be a big part of it, you know,
4:16
Speaker 1: one of the big things, and we're gonna get into
4:17
Speaker 1: it more. But I just remembered a moment where one
4:20
Speaker 1: of the big bands, which was called Reliant K that's
4:23
Speaker 1: come over into the popular contemporary stuff and mainstream stuff.
4:29
Speaker 1: And then the woman who was a DJ in Atlanta
4:32
Speaker 1: who was engaged to the lead singer and she was
4:35
Speaker 1: so excited, was doing a whole segment about wedding planning
4:39
Speaker 1: and talking about how it was so romantic. It turned
4:41
Speaker 1: out he cheated on her with a fan, and it
4:45
Speaker 1: was it just got splashed everywhere, and I was like, oh, dude,
4:50
Speaker 1: huge mistake and dating a radio like celebrity who just
4:55
Speaker 1: called your out and all of your fans are probably
5:00
Speaker 1: beyond disappointed because not only did you take advantage of
5:03
Speaker 1: this fan, I think, but you broke this woman's heart
5:06
Speaker 1: who talked about how holy your relationship was row But
5:12
Speaker 1: that's a whole different story. But it does stuff like
5:14
Speaker 1: that that as you're like, yeah, these good guys were
5:18
Speaker 1: emotional all right and took advantage of everybody else's emotional stuff.
5:23
Speaker 1: Let's go backwards a little bit. Talk about definition, because
5:26
Speaker 1: we love a definition. What is emo? Slash pop punk?
5:30
Speaker 1: From a twenty fourteen paper by Sam du bois called
5:33
Speaker 1: Cheer Up Emo Kid, Rethinking the Crisis of Masculinity and Emo,
5:37
Speaker 1: he writes, Emo and abbreviation for emotional is a term
5:41
Speaker 1: both used to describe music which places public emphasis on
5:45
Speaker 1: introspective displays of emotion, and a pejoritive phrase applied to
5:49
Speaker 1: fans for a diverse range of music. It's overwhelmingly male
5:54
Speaker 1: dominated in terms of production, and it has been suggested
5:57
Speaker 1: that the development of EMO can be flamed with a
6:00
Speaker 1: reference to a quote crisis of masculinity. The term first
6:04
Speaker 1: originated in the nineteen eighties to describe hardcore emotional punk,
6:09
Speaker 1: though we're largely talking about the third wave of EMO
6:13
Speaker 1: in the early two thousand's. Yeah, so well, the bands
6:15
Speaker 1: we're talking about specifically right now, that's what we're talking about.
6:18
Speaker 1: And the article goes to examine fears around identity queering
6:22
Speaker 1: and the asiminization of mostly young men. And remember the
6:25
Speaker 1: whole guideliner panic. And we're still talking about it because
6:29
Speaker 1: I still hear people talking about it to this day. Yes,
6:32
Speaker 1: and actually people have speculated about the masculine stances and performances.
6:37
Speaker 1: So there's like the foul guitar and the wide legs
6:39
Speaker 1: stance of so called cock rock a alongside the tight
6:44
Speaker 1: jeans and unisex hoities and guideliner of so gender bending
6:49
Speaker 1: oh somewhat. And what that means the debate is ongoing.
6:52
Speaker 1: I mean, this stuff is being talked about right now. Yeah.
6:56
Speaker 1: I just remember distinctly having an argument with my brother
7:00
Speaker 1: if I liked somebody, I think Jared Leto And this
7:02
Speaker 1: was before he became a band, Like he was always
7:05
Speaker 1: part of the band. He wasn't big in the music
7:07
Speaker 1: yet this was his, uh my so called life, and
7:10
Speaker 1: he was kind of that emo kid. He was that emo,
7:14
Speaker 1: disenfranchised outsider that I was like, yes, but he definitely
7:17
Speaker 1: like had the eyeliner, has some female polished And my
7:21
Speaker 1: brother was like, what's wrong with you. He dresses like
7:22
Speaker 1: a girl, like he's in touch with his female side.
7:26
Speaker 1: You don't know him because I also got to fight
7:32
Speaker 1: with somebody about Jared Letto that was kind of similar,
7:34
Speaker 1: and I ended up getting his autograph from thirty seconds
7:37
Speaker 1: Tomorrow's Days. But let me tell you, I've never frozen
7:40
Speaker 1: so hard with the celebrity before where I was like,
7:43
Speaker 1: oh my god, what am I doing here? I want
7:45
Speaker 1: this moment to end right now. This is so weird.
7:49
Speaker 1: I've not gone there, but as we find those moments
7:52
Speaker 1: interesting by the way. Pop punk is defined by the
7:55
Speaker 1: Cultural Wiki like This. Pop punk, also known as punk pop,
8:00
Speaker 1: is a music genre that fuses elements of punk rock
8:04
Speaker 1: and pop music. It typically combines fast tempos, loud and
8:08
Speaker 1: distorted electric guitars, and power chord changes with pop influenced melodies,
8:13
Speaker 1: vocal styles, and lytrical themes, which I believe us at
8:16
Speaker 1: you a sample of a we talked about previously. You
8:19
Speaker 1: did because one of the reasons we wanted to talk
8:22
Speaker 1: about this was because we kind of touched on it
8:26
Speaker 1: in our episode on Jennifer's Body, and there's that kind
8:29
Speaker 1: of the whole theme of the the Emo Band, and
8:32
Speaker 1: then sacrificing her for emo fame. And we learned that
8:37
Speaker 1: Samantha had some songs with lyrics that she lended to
8:43
Speaker 1: them or that we're about her, and she said one
8:46
Speaker 1: to me and I listen to it. It absolutely is
8:54
Speaker 1: punk rock pop punk. I don't think he would like
8:57
Speaker 1: that's how we're defining it, because he wants to be
9:01
Speaker 1: kind of outside of that. It is now what we
9:02
Speaker 1: would probably regard as indie indie rock, But I learned
9:08
Speaker 1: many genres within those, like shoe gazers and all of
9:10
Speaker 1: that stuff that I was like, what is happening? Why
9:13
Speaker 1: there's so many titles and or related types of things,
9:19
Speaker 1: What is happening? So, yeah, you're welcome, Amy. No one
9:23
Speaker 1: else will be able to hear those, but you're welcome. Yes,
9:26
Speaker 1: if that guy is randomly listening, I was the person
9:28
Speaker 1: who listened to it randomly. You got a notification. And
9:34
Speaker 1: I do want to say also kind of going along
9:36
Speaker 1: with that. EMO while describing a type of music, is
9:41
Speaker 1: also used frequently to describe kind of the fans, so
9:47
Speaker 1: it can get murky when you're talking about it like that,
9:48
Speaker 1: and a lot of people described it in a way
9:50
Speaker 1: that I felt targeted by but was absolutely true, which
9:52
Speaker 1: is kind of like mall hot topic set, the mall
9:56
Speaker 1: hot topics set, and that is what I was. I
10:00
Speaker 1: had a hot topic punch card. Oh. I got up
10:05
Speaker 1: in the generation that that was the devil oh, and
10:08
Speaker 1: I could not go in there really. I mean, my
10:13
Speaker 1: parents wouldn't go in there, like you go way up there.
10:17
Speaker 1: I would not let me go wow. And then by
10:20
Speaker 1: the time I was old enough to do so, I
10:22
Speaker 1: was like, no, I'm good. I'll go in occasionally now.
10:26
Speaker 1: And it's just such a throwback and it's such a
10:28
Speaker 1: like I remember being in here and wanting because I
10:32
Speaker 1: couldn't afford a lot of stuff in there. It's expensive.
10:34
Speaker 1: But the green day jacket that I wear to this
10:36
Speaker 1: stage is from Hot Topic. The zip up forty bucks.
10:40
Speaker 1: I saved up for that one and I still wear it.
10:43
Speaker 1: She still wears it, y'all, and it's intact like it
10:45
Speaker 1: is still a good condition. I like it because as
10:48
Speaker 1: pockets and you can zip it and on zip it's nice.
10:53
Speaker 1: But that's that reminds me of another funny story where
10:56
Speaker 1: I think in high school I dressed as essentially a
11:00
Speaker 1: really emo kid, and this we didn't get many trick
11:05
Speaker 1: or treaters in my neighborhood. But doorbell rang and I
11:08
Speaker 1: answered it, and it was a young mother and her
11:11
Speaker 1: like maybe two year old daughter who was dressed as
11:13
Speaker 1: Dorothy from the Wizard of Oz, and they both looked
11:17
Speaker 1: terrified of me, like I could see immediately. The mother
11:21
Speaker 1: was like, this is a mistake. We're gonna leave. And
11:24
Speaker 1: then I'm like candy and they're like no. So there
11:31
Speaker 1: was kind of that that vibe too, especially in conservative
11:34
Speaker 1: areas of it being like, I don't know, risky, risque
11:39
Speaker 1: or dangerous or devil related. All these kids wearing all black,
11:45
Speaker 1: they're studded belts, studded belts, and the funny thing was
11:49
Speaker 1: you had to take off the studded belt to get
11:50
Speaker 1: into the concert, and then at the end there'd be
11:52
Speaker 1: just like this huge thing of studded belts, so you'd
11:55
Speaker 1: like put your initials on your belt so you could
11:58
Speaker 1: find it. But we all were it for the way
12:01
Speaker 1: to get line, to get in because it was a
12:03
Speaker 1: piece of our identity, which is part of the pain
12:06
Speaker 1: of why why um we as a lot of us
12:12
Speaker 1: as young fans, were taking advantage of And I did
12:13
Speaker 1: want to mention before we go on here. This was
12:16
Speaker 1: a listener suggestion, so Beck wrote in A topic I
12:20
Speaker 1: think would be interesting to cover would be about the
12:22
Speaker 1: emo scene music scene from the year's two thousand three
12:25
Speaker 1: to two thousand twelvesh This article briefly covers what it
12:28
Speaker 1: was like growing up as a girl teen and being
12:30
Speaker 1: exupposed to the culture that was essentially ruled by misogynistic men.
12:34
Speaker 1: A simple lyrics breakdown of popular emo seen songs from
12:37
Speaker 1: this era is enough to say that women were treated
12:39
Speaker 1: like objects to appease men, especially if they didn't reciprocate
12:42
Speaker 1: their feelings for them. Topics of abuse, murder, and the
12:46
Speaker 1: copious amount of gas lighting was a common theme. And
12:48
Speaker 1: most of the songs from this era and yeah, we're
12:51
Speaker 1: we're about to get into some lyrics here in a second,
12:55
Speaker 1: but yeah, a lot of these songs focus on boys,
13:00
Speaker 1: um are men's bodies, particularly white straight systsmen on their
13:03
Speaker 1: fears of rejection or on the actual rejection, on their
13:07
Speaker 1: hurt or anger at women, on sexualizing women's bodies, or
13:10
Speaker 1: blaming their in happiness and or pain on women. People
13:13
Speaker 1: who have traced the history of punk, pop, punk and
13:16
Speaker 1: emo over the years often point out that email and
13:18
Speaker 1: pop punk weren't always this way. The songs used to
13:21
Speaker 1: give women's names, and it would give these women autonomy
13:24
Speaker 1: and death people who weren't super idealized and on a pedestal,
13:28
Speaker 1: which is also part of what we're talking about here
13:30
Speaker 1: in these third wave EMO songs. But then something shifted
13:34
Speaker 1: in the two thousands and EMAO albums largely became about
13:36
Speaker 1: men's heartbreak and the nameless women at the cause of it.
13:39
Speaker 1: As the enemy. Women existed in these songs as simply
13:44
Speaker 1: an object that messed with men's hearts and lives, as
13:48
Speaker 1: either the perfect woman or mused and that's sort of
13:51
Speaker 1: like the best uh end of the spectrum, or the
13:54
Speaker 1: vessel for their spirm or like hatred part of the
13:58
Speaker 1: men's story. That's what they served these women in these songs,
14:00
Speaker 1: a possession to be one or lost, blaming women and
14:03
Speaker 1: only women for their emotional state, which feels very telling
14:07
Speaker 1: of the songwriter's views on women. There's a lot of
14:10
Speaker 1: gas lighting and slut shaming in them. Um Email and
14:13
Speaker 1: pop punk became another boys club because, as you noticed,
14:16
Speaker 1: we're talking about men writing these songs, and that's because
14:18
Speaker 1: that was largely the case, and this boys club was
14:21
Speaker 1: one that looked down on the girls and women fans
14:23
Speaker 1: who made up their fan base. As Warped Tour, six
14:29
Speaker 1: percent of bands featured a single woman in their numbers
14:32
Speaker 1: over the band line up. And that's doing anything while
14:35
Speaker 1: the crowd was a majority female at fifty m Yes
14:40
Speaker 1: a lot. In general, it does. I did go to
14:45
Speaker 1: Warped Tour one time and it was so hot. That's
14:47
Speaker 1: what I remember was that it was hot and I
14:49
Speaker 1: got a really cool shirt. But that's it. I will
14:54
Speaker 1: say I didn't go. I don't go to the couse
14:56
Speaker 1: hearts much and I still don't. It's too crowded for me.
14:59
Speaker 1: Like I knew then that I couldn't handle it and
15:01
Speaker 1: I still know today. And also chilling out a lot
15:04
Speaker 1: of money for a concert never made sense to me.
15:07
Speaker 1: I'm too practical and too cynical, and like, I don't
15:09
Speaker 1: want to be in a crowd where I can't see
15:11
Speaker 1: somebody and barely hear the music and I'm getting touched
15:13
Speaker 1: all the time. I don't. I don't want to. But
15:16
Speaker 1: a few times that it did go was because it
15:19
Speaker 1: was free or it was convenient, And again it included
15:23
Speaker 1: like switch Foot Reliant K I went to see them,
15:26
Speaker 1: I think a couple of times. I also went to
15:28
Speaker 1: see a Weezer oh yeah, but because they were performing
15:32
Speaker 1: in Atlanta for free and we were like just there.
15:35
Speaker 1: I was like, Oh, what's happening? Did you go downtown?
15:40
Speaker 1: I think so. I think it was during the it
15:42
Speaker 1: was centennial when they were having the free shows essentially,
15:47
Speaker 1: and I was at a restaurant and hanging out like.
15:49
Speaker 1: It was awesome because we were at a restaurant doing something.
15:52
Speaker 1: I think we thought something was happening. We didn't exactly where,
15:55
Speaker 1: and then we showed up and we ended up going
15:57
Speaker 1: to a restaurant eating and then the show happened and
15:59
Speaker 1: we were right to the side of them. Then we
16:01
Speaker 1: could see them perfectly. I was like, oh cool, yes, yeah, yeah.
16:06
Speaker 1: I went to all of those two. I think also
16:08
Speaker 1: all three shows. What if we crossed paths? We did.
16:12
Speaker 1: We did these emo shows and I can't remember the
16:15
Speaker 1: band I was at. It was a switch Foot concert,
16:17
Speaker 1: but they were multiple bands there, and I only remember Switchfoot,
16:19
Speaker 1: but they were all Christian bands, and one of them
16:21
Speaker 1: was like shouting into the microphone news like it's so
16:24
Speaker 1: cool not to have sex and I'm to serve yourself
16:26
Speaker 1: for marriage, and we're all like, because he was like
16:32
Speaker 1: shouting at a five Iron Frenzy because that was my
16:36
Speaker 1: go to band of my high school. Five on Frenzy
16:39
Speaker 1: was the ship to me? What was it talk? Was
16:43
Speaker 1: it DC talk? I wonder if I could find this
16:47
Speaker 1: old line up because it was at North Grgia College
16:50
Speaker 1: where my dad taught that. I didn't go to that one. Well, yeah,
16:53
Speaker 1: but I wonder if it had a similar right, A
16:57
Speaker 1: switch Foot, Reliant, k so Portones, y'all, we're going down
17:02
Speaker 1: a path. All of them had like the similar venues
17:06
Speaker 1: and would go together. Yes, yes, I'll have to look.
17:11
Speaker 1: I've actually really enjoyed. Yeah, I remember Jars with Clay. Yeah,
17:15
Speaker 1: I've enjoyed going back down this memory. And even though
17:17
Speaker 1: we're talking about like non great stuff right right, we
17:34
Speaker 1: wanted to go over some sample song lyrics and these
17:37
Speaker 1: are limited. I had to put a time stamp on
17:39
Speaker 1: how much time can I spend listening to old songs
17:42
Speaker 1: and picking out lyrics that are sexist? But yeah, we
17:46
Speaker 1: wanted to choose some to illustrate what we're talking about here.
17:50
Speaker 1: This is one of the miss understood songs as well
17:52
Speaker 1: like miss spoken songs as in get the lyrics completely wrong,
17:57
Speaker 1: and I'm one of those people. So it's the fallout
18:00
Speaker 1: a song which goes, I'm just a notch in a
18:02
Speaker 1: bed post, but we're just a line in a song,
18:05
Speaker 1: which of course is from the two thousand fives were
18:07
Speaker 1: Sugar We're going down. Still probably could not sing that
18:12
Speaker 1: all the way through, and it would make up my
18:13
Speaker 1: own stuff, as most people did in that line. And
18:17
Speaker 1: of course there's also I only want sympathy in the
18:19
Speaker 1: form of you crawling into bed with me. Also two
18:22
Speaker 1: thousand five Dance Dance their other hit, and I still
18:26
Speaker 1: probably would not know that lyric either, but y' yeah, yeah,
18:31
Speaker 1: And I mean it's it's funny slash sad when you're like,
18:35
Speaker 1: not recently obviously, but when you're in the height of
18:37
Speaker 1: karaoke and you're like, I know that boy or whatever
18:41
Speaker 1: song it is, and you're singing it, and as you're
18:43
Speaker 1: singing it, you're like, oh, I feel weird about this now, Okay.
18:50
Speaker 1: It's kind of that same way with a semi charme
18:52
Speaker 1: kind of life, and you don't know what you're singing
18:53
Speaker 1: and then you start realizing, oh, oh they and it
19:00
Speaker 1: sounds so beat, so beat, so sad. The lyrics are
19:05
Speaker 1: not not a beat. Everyone, Oh, speaking of not a
19:09
Speaker 1: beat lyrics. So here's a line for Brand News two
19:11
Speaker 1: thousand three songs Me Versus May Donna versus Elvis. This
19:15
Speaker 1: line is like infamous. I got desperate desires and unamiable plans.
19:19
Speaker 1: My tunnel taste of gin and malicious intent bring you
19:22
Speaker 1: back to the bar, get you out of the cold.
19:24
Speaker 1: My sober straight face gets you out of your clothes.
19:27
Speaker 1: I almost feel sorry for what I'm gonna do if
19:29
Speaker 1: you let me, If you let me have my way,
19:31
Speaker 1: I swear I'll tear you apart. And yes, that is
19:33
Speaker 1: about date rate, just straight up us about dates. And
19:38
Speaker 1: then the sentences fell two four LP says, so love
19:42
Speaker 1: me gently with a chainsaw and take the glass against
19:45
Speaker 1: your wrist. You're worth more dead, Okay, I feel loved, Yes,
19:51
Speaker 1: so so much love from this emotional music Glass Jaws
19:55
Speaker 1: two thousand Pretty Lush has this line, you can lead
19:57
Speaker 1: a horde of water and you can bet she'll drink
19:59
Speaker 1: and follow orders. So the band tatars and the song
20:03
Speaker 1: the last song I will ever write about women, But
20:05
Speaker 1: that didn't happen, which is love is wrong and girls
20:08
Speaker 1: are evil. I guess I'll never figure out what woman
20:12
Speaker 1: kind is all about. Well mean, at least there, I mean,
20:17
Speaker 1: good riddance, goodbye, and then from the US through. I
20:23
Speaker 1: also saw in Concerto two is Buried Alive, my foot
20:26
Speaker 1: on your neck and I finally have you right where
20:28
Speaker 1: I want you. Yeah, and this one was a big
20:31
Speaker 1: one and was still talked about today, and we're definitely
20:34
Speaker 1: gonna talk about her own comments. They were one of
20:37
Speaker 1: the few female led punk slash emo band as well
20:41
Speaker 1: as she was a very big Christian girl. Oh yeah,
20:44
Speaker 1: I didn't know, yeah, yeah, yeah, so she was. Originally
20:46
Speaker 1: this was not I don't think this was a Christian band,
20:48
Speaker 1: but she used to be like all about that Christian
20:51
Speaker 1: life and then they got big. In two thousand eighteen,
20:54
Speaker 1: Hayley Williams of Paramore announced they wouldn't be playing Misery Business, which, yeah,
20:59
Speaker 1: I used to love this song and but this lyric
21:01
Speaker 1: ruined everything, which features the line once the whore, you're
21:05
Speaker 1: nothing more and it's pretty much a woman against woman
21:08
Speaker 1: stealing men from each other, which again live for a
21:12
Speaker 1: long time, still exists and you still hear it in
21:15
Speaker 1: many songs, including uh yeah, main girl types of movies,
21:19
Speaker 1: I've seen it featured and they have yet to play
21:21
Speaker 1: it again at a show since. And when they announced
21:24
Speaker 1: this at a show, the audience shared and applauded. Of course,
21:27
Speaker 1: they also got a lot of pushback, being like, you're
21:29
Speaker 1: do being too politically correct. Calm down. But Williams has
21:33
Speaker 1: been outspoken about the sexism in the email world in
21:36
Speaker 1: several interviews. Here's a quote she says, when I've been
21:39
Speaker 1: offered female opportunities, it feels like a backhanded compliment. But
21:43
Speaker 1: people sometimes think that that's anti feminists that don't want
21:47
Speaker 1: to be grouped in with the girls. As a sixteen
21:49
Speaker 1: year old who had dreams of playing with the big boys,
21:52
Speaker 1: it felt like we were being slighted. That summer we
21:55
Speaker 1: went out and I'll never forget it. We played in
21:57
Speaker 1: Florida and the stage was a truck that had flatbed
21:59
Speaker 1: on it. It was so flimsy, it was shake and
22:01
Speaker 1: fall apart. There might have been one other female in
22:04
Speaker 1: a band on tour, and people were gawking. I don't
22:08
Speaker 1: think in a pervy way. They were just confused, like
22:10
Speaker 1: what's in this for me? What she's singing about a guy?
22:14
Speaker 1: How do I relate? And she also shared the story
22:16
Speaker 1: of getting condoms thrown at her while performing and being
22:19
Speaker 1: asked about her pussy by a man from another band
22:22
Speaker 1: at sixteen years old. And when you look at a
22:25
Speaker 1: lot again, this kind of comes back into that same
22:28
Speaker 1: conversation of like, yeah, this seems cool and all, but
22:31
Speaker 1: a lot of these men were super gross and they
22:33
Speaker 1: did go after young girls like Hayley Williams, and it
22:38
Speaker 1: was really gross because the relationship of the relationship, like
22:40
Speaker 1: how did that happen? Avril Levine was another example of like,
22:44
Speaker 1: and I don't think she either one of them would
22:46
Speaker 1: say they were victims necessarily and that they would probably
22:49
Speaker 1: not look at their relationships. It's a bad thing. But
22:51
Speaker 1: it was oftentimes with like way older men and you're
22:54
Speaker 1: kind of like, this is uncomfortable, Like there's something off
22:58
Speaker 1: about this, and I think we're talking to a lot
23:01
Speaker 1: and yeah, again, a majority of the time the girls
23:04
Speaker 1: were young in email bands while the mineral old and
23:08
Speaker 1: you're like, yes, how did this come about? Yes, And
23:12
Speaker 1: that is a power dynamic that has been abused a
23:15
Speaker 1: lot because this community wasn't is rife with abuse of women,
23:19
Speaker 1: and several articles have written about how the lyrics and
23:23
Speaker 1: a lot of these EMAI songs were essentially grooming young women.
23:27
Speaker 1: For instance, Jesse Lacey of the band Brand New, which
23:30
Speaker 1: we just saying, I didn't sing, I quoted the song
23:34
Speaker 1: about date rape UM. Also, they had one of my
23:37
Speaker 1: very favorite songs and I was telling at I'm like,
23:38
Speaker 1: I guess that's over for me. And this band is
23:41
Speaker 1: often credited with kicking off third wave email. They wrote
23:44
Speaker 1: another song about how Lacy wished his girlfriend would die
23:48
Speaker 1: after she decided to spend a semester abroad. And at
23:52
Speaker 1: the same time he's writing and performing these songs, he
23:56
Speaker 1: was pressuring underage girls to send him nudes while he
23:59
Speaker 1: was masturbating on camera in front of frightened teenage girls,
24:03
Speaker 1: and it took ten years before they felt safe enough
24:07
Speaker 1: to come out and talk about it. Here's another example.
24:11
Speaker 1: Mid two thousand's Australian emo band The Gateway Plans tour
24:15
Speaker 1: manager John Zimmerman groomed and raped over fifty five young girls,
24:19
Speaker 1: and most of them were fans of the band, and
24:22
Speaker 1: he gave a lot of false promises of introducing them
24:25
Speaker 1: to band members UM and he was eventually found guilty
24:27
Speaker 1: of ninety two charges ranging from rape, possession of child
24:31
Speaker 1: porn and sexual penetration of a child under the age
24:34
Speaker 1: of sixteen, among other things. He got sixteen years in prison.
24:39
Speaker 1: Another Australian pop punk group called With Confidence had to
24:43
Speaker 1: withdraw from all touring in twenty twenty after allegations at
24:47
Speaker 1: the guitarist was sexting with a fan who was a minor,
24:51
Speaker 1: which came about and they're like, okay, never mind, and
24:53
Speaker 1: the band fired him and put out a statement supporting
24:56
Speaker 1: the victim. However, less than a week later, another woman
25:00
Speaker 1: released screenshots of explicit snapchat's message she would save from
25:04
Speaker 1: the lead singer when she was underaged, and they released
25:07
Speaker 1: another statement and yeah, they stopped touring. Yeah. In late
25:14
Speaker 1: a member of Front Porch Step faced multiple sexual harassment
25:17
Speaker 1: accusations from underage girls, including sex and solicitations for pornographic photos.
25:22
Speaker 1: Several of these girls put together a petition asking the
25:25
Speaker 1: founder of Vans Warp Tour to protect young female fans
25:27
Speaker 1: by removing Front Porch Steps from their lineup. After looking
25:31
Speaker 1: into the allegations, the founder agreed. However, a couple of
25:35
Speaker 1: months later they were scheduled on the Warp Tour lineup
25:38
Speaker 1: in Nashville, and people were rightfully furious Hayley Williams of
25:42
Speaker 1: Paramore treated, I still believe in you've seen demand better,
25:44
Speaker 1: because you deserve better. No more excuses for boys just
25:47
Speaker 1: being boys. He did end up performing with some girls
25:51
Speaker 1: in the front row crying so hard he had to
25:54
Speaker 1: stop and address it in mid song. He and the founder,
25:59
Speaker 1: when interviewed about this, aimed he was playing as a
26:01
Speaker 1: quote rehabilitation process um. He had six security guards protecting him.
26:06
Speaker 1: Of course the girls had no protection, no security guards
26:10
Speaker 1: protecting them, and there really a story after story. It's
26:13
Speaker 1: it's heartbreaking, often with the male artists getting off relatively
26:17
Speaker 1: scott free or even suing the accuser for defamation and
26:22
Speaker 1: allowed to continue to perform. And these are only cases
26:25
Speaker 1: that have been officially reported. Message boards are rife with
26:28
Speaker 1: stories of people in these bands or in their orbit
26:31
Speaker 1: praying on young girls, many of them fans, a lot
26:35
Speaker 1: of them under age, blackmailing them and making them feel ashamed,
26:37
Speaker 1: to silence them, so maybe getting photos and then telling
26:40
Speaker 1: them like I'll tell your parents what you did, or
26:42
Speaker 1: I'll show these photos unless you be quiet and are
26:46
Speaker 1: continue this sexual relationship. And it's not only girls and
26:51
Speaker 1: women absorbing these messages, but boys and men too. If
26:54
Speaker 1: they're observing this success and how girls and women seem
26:57
Speaker 1: to enjoy the music and their lyrics the fangirl over
27:00
Speaker 1: the band members, then it makes sense that they might
27:02
Speaker 1: believe that these lyrics are romantic, that the behavior described
27:06
Speaker 1: in the songs will get them the girl. It might
27:09
Speaker 1: reinforce their feelings of being victimized by women who rejected them,
27:13
Speaker 1: justified in their sense of anger, their intense anger, and
27:16
Speaker 1: it kind of reminds me, honestly a lot of what
27:18
Speaker 1: we talked about in our mass shootings episode. Because these
27:22
Speaker 1: songs are full of self pity and the bands are
27:26
Speaker 1: loved for it. The source of pain is usually a woman,
27:29
Speaker 1: and women at large are the source of contempt, superficial
27:33
Speaker 1: and unintelligent. Often not only that being a band member
27:37
Speaker 1: makes that even more okay, because these songs teach that
27:40
Speaker 1: putting women through pain for art is entirely acceptable, which
27:44
Speaker 1: again we talked about in Jennifer's Body that if you're
27:49
Speaker 1: a nice guy, the whole trope of the nice guy
27:51
Speaker 1: and women just don't understand you, and that they owe
27:55
Speaker 1: you because you are a nice guy. Articles have pointed
27:59
Speaker 1: out what these men seem to want is in fact
28:02
Speaker 1: girls and not women. Girls who will agree with them
28:05
Speaker 1: on everything, who will do what they want, who will
28:08
Speaker 1: idolize them like they think they should be idolized because
28:11
Speaker 1: you know their gods apparently, and that this is a
28:13
Speaker 1: world created by men to seduce and impress girls while
28:17
Speaker 1: also deriding them. It's a dangerous power dynamic. Yeah, And
28:23
Speaker 1: like I kind of talked about at the top, it's
28:26
Speaker 1: it's been for a lot of women and girls who
28:28
Speaker 1: were and our fans of this type of music. It
28:30
Speaker 1: has been a real sense of community oftentimes for them,
28:34
Speaker 1: and to have that weaponized has been really painful. And
28:37
Speaker 1: I've read a lot of articles with where it was
28:39
Speaker 1: friendships formed between girls and women because they did make
28:43
Speaker 1: up a lot of these audiences and then having this
28:46
Speaker 1: kind of realization, oh not great, a lot of misogyny
28:53
Speaker 1: and a lot of praying on young girls in this world, right,
28:57
Speaker 1: And again, as you were talking about, there's been a
28:59
Speaker 1: several instances where women come together and realize we've all
29:02
Speaker 1: been victims, okay, And which has been the huge mistake
29:06
Speaker 1: of a lot of stars in general, not realizing, hey,
29:10
Speaker 1: if you groom several people eventually, if one tells a story.
29:13
Speaker 1: They're going to see a pattern, so which has been
29:16
Speaker 1: an interesting community in itself, said that it has to happen,
29:19
Speaker 1: but encouraging that they are talking, and from Jessica Harper's
29:22
Speaker 1: two thousand three essay on the rise of commercial Emo,
29:25
Speaker 1: she writes, my deepest concerns about the lingering effects of
29:28
Speaker 1: EMO is not so much for myself or for my friends.
29:31
Speaker 1: We had refuge in our personal political platforms and did
29:34
Speaker 1: created record collections, but rather for the teenage girls I
29:37
Speaker 1: see crowding front and center at EMO shows, the ones
29:41
Speaker 1: for whom this is their inaugural introduction to the underground,
29:44
Speaker 1: the ones who are seeking music out, who are wanting
29:47
Speaker 1: to say some claim to punk rock or underground avenue
29:51
Speaker 1: for a way out, a way under, to say, the
29:53
Speaker 1: seemingly unquenchable nameless need the same need I came to
29:57
Speaker 1: punk rock with. So I watched these girl is that
30:00
Speaker 1: EMO shows more than I ever do the band. I
30:02
Speaker 1: watched them sing along, see what parts they freak out over.
30:06
Speaker 1: I wonder if they're being thwarted by the fact that
30:08
Speaker 1: there's no presentation of girls as participants, but rather only
30:11
Speaker 1: as consumers, or if we reference the songs directly the consumed.
30:16
Speaker 1: I wondered if this is where music will begin and
30:18
Speaker 1: end for them, if they can be radicalized in spite
30:21
Speaker 1: of this, if being denied keys to the clubhouse is
30:24
Speaker 1: enough to spur them into action. Yes, and people have
30:29
Speaker 1: said that that it seems to be the case because
30:32
Speaker 1: things are changing. But basically what Hopper was talking about
30:35
Speaker 1: here is young women forming ideas on who makes music
30:38
Speaker 1: and what it says about women and internalizing that at
30:42
Speaker 1: a young age. Many women, both in bands at the
30:45
Speaker 1: time and fans spoke of condescension and entitlement oozing from
30:50
Speaker 1: these bands, similar to the fate geek girl thing that
30:53
Speaker 1: you know, being told like they don't understand real music,
30:56
Speaker 1: that they were only there for sex, um that they
30:59
Speaker 1: supported these bands and showed up for these bands, but
31:02
Speaker 1: the bands did not want or support them, or just
31:04
Speaker 1: for just yeah, condescending of them. And I mean, there's
31:11
Speaker 1: a whole conversation we could have to about when we
31:14
Speaker 1: sort of talked about this in Fan Girls, where this
31:16
Speaker 1: is a time where girls are experiencing they're kind of
31:23
Speaker 1: going through these feelings around sexuality for the first time,
31:28
Speaker 1: and you're experimenting and that's part of the reason why
31:31
Speaker 1: things like fan girls exist. It's because it feels like
31:33
Speaker 1: it's a safer way to experience your sexuality or kind
31:38
Speaker 1: of get a feel for what you're attracted to or
31:41
Speaker 1: all the stuff. And it should be it should be
31:45
Speaker 1: a safe space. But this is just showing a lot
31:48
Speaker 1: of times it's not. It's which is really unfortunate. Yeah,
31:52
Speaker 1: and this is a slap in the face. Again, we
31:54
Speaker 1: talked about this in the Fangirls episode. How is a
31:57
Speaker 1: slab in the face when a product you're sending out
32:01
Speaker 1: so the music is getting the love that you hoped
32:04
Speaker 1: it would, but then you're finding that annoying as well
32:08
Speaker 1: as not taking it seriously, What a slap in the
32:11
Speaker 1: face for those who have bought into what you are selling.
32:15
Speaker 1: And you should be proud and you should be thankful.
32:17
Speaker 1: You don't have to owe them anything necessarily, but to
32:20
Speaker 1: ridicule them and or use them is such a disgrace
32:25
Speaker 1: in general. And we've talked about this again with like
32:27
Speaker 1: the bigger boy bands when they come out they're like, oh,
32:29
Speaker 1: that was me being young and naive and stupid, and
32:31
Speaker 1: I hate it. How dare you? Like? These fans are
32:35
Speaker 1: the ones who made you and put you in where
32:37
Speaker 1: you are and to dismiss Sure, you can do things
32:40
Speaker 1: like you know, that was when I was younger. Sure, okay,
32:42
Speaker 1: you grow everybody, everything's fine, but that doesn't mean you
32:45
Speaker 1: have to ridicule what is that that brought you into
32:48
Speaker 1: this place? Absolutely? Yes. Another thing that people have written
33:10
Speaker 1: about and when they're kind of digging into this whole situation,
33:16
Speaker 1: is that why why women, you know and me included,
33:20
Speaker 1: Why did we Why were we okay or even like
33:23
Speaker 1: these lyrics? Why did they resonate with us when they
33:27
Speaker 1: were often so outright hateful towards women. And some people
33:32
Speaker 1: think it has to do with internalized misogyny and the
33:34
Speaker 1: whole idea of you know, like I'm not like those
33:37
Speaker 1: other girls. I'm not like this girl that broke your
33:39
Speaker 1: heart in this song. I would never do that to you.
33:42
Speaker 1: I can save you, I can fix you, I can
33:43
Speaker 1: make you feel better. Whatever you need me to be,
33:46
Speaker 1: I can be that for you. Others think that because
33:49
Speaker 1: this all coincided with the growth, really rapid growth of
33:53
Speaker 1: internet culture and things like blogs and file sharing, that
33:57
Speaker 1: that allowed for this culture to spread and solidified very quickly.
34:01
Speaker 1: So it was just one of those things where suddenly
34:06
Speaker 1: it was everywhere and we just all kind of bought
34:09
Speaker 1: into it. Yeah, And I guess it was, you know, exciting,
34:12
Speaker 1: and I'm trying to think of my own experience because
34:16
Speaker 1: I had to. My parents would let me go to
34:19
Speaker 1: hot topic, but they were very nervous about concerts. Once
34:22
Speaker 1: I started going, I was like, all and I think
34:25
Speaker 1: it was almost just like I'm out in the world
34:28
Speaker 1: and I'm doing this adult thing and being at a concert,
34:30
Speaker 1: and it just felt really new and exciting for me.
34:34
Speaker 1: And there was like because I've I've said my very
34:36
Speaker 1: embarrassing truth. I wrote a fan fiction, which was a
34:40
Speaker 1: very sue fan fiction where I saved the lead singer
34:43
Speaker 1: of Green Day's Life, Billy Joe Armstrong, by taking a
34:45
Speaker 1: bullet for him. And I I think that's just, you know,
34:50
Speaker 1: that's that stage where you are feeling like one of
34:53
Speaker 1: these feelings, maybe I am the person, I could be
34:56
Speaker 1: that special person that will be what they need. And
34:59
Speaker 1: it's not healthy, but I think it's normal. And there's
35:04
Speaker 1: a fantasy, whether it's trying to again discover your sexuality,
35:09
Speaker 1: understand your own sexuality, understand romance. There's a whole level
35:13
Speaker 1: of absolute understanding and this is normal. This is you
35:17
Speaker 1: trying to have a fantasy life. Of course, there is
35:20
Speaker 1: the unhealthy version when that obsession has becomes something that
35:25
Speaker 1: stops you from living your everyday life. But fantasy life
35:29
Speaker 1: is not a bad thing. And that's kind of the
35:32
Speaker 1: point of having the celebrity crush, the all of those
35:36
Speaker 1: things that is a little untouchable in that level, because
35:41
Speaker 1: most oftentimes that's better than reality, and that's what you
35:44
Speaker 1: want for me. What's so funny in my fantasies, it
35:48
Speaker 1: always ended up with heartbreak, like I never like either
35:53
Speaker 1: in their death or my death or some horrible breakup,
35:57
Speaker 1: cheating like it always in it that way. Mine was
36:00
Speaker 1: not necessarily like yeah, he saved the day. So it's
36:04
Speaker 1: never that I was envisioned the like worst case scenario
36:08
Speaker 1: and read with that. So there's that. But again I
36:13
Speaker 1: digress to this is part of the imagination. This is
36:15
Speaker 1: part of the process of working some things out that
36:17
Speaker 1: you can't do it uh in reality in real life,
36:21
Speaker 1: so might as well. And I don't think that's unhealthy
36:23
Speaker 1: at all. We all go through that. My sister and
36:25
Speaker 1: I still debate about who's better in Sync or Backstreet Boys.
36:29
Speaker 1: I go for in Sync, any you're you're weirdly out
36:32
Speaker 1: in the of your generation and go for Backstreet Boys.
36:36
Speaker 1: But you know, okay, this will be this will be
36:42
Speaker 1: what finally tears as a part one day in sync
36:45
Speaker 1: Backstreet Boys. Right, Yeah, no, I agree, And I think
36:49
Speaker 1: it just breaks my heart that this normal process is
36:54
Speaker 1: being preyed on might reser men because you do you know,
36:58
Speaker 1: you are caught up in idolizing this person, but you
37:00
Speaker 1: don't really understand that, you know, they are a person,
37:03
Speaker 1: and maybe you don't really understand what relationships look like yet,
37:05
Speaker 1: and you just are so excited because it makes you
37:09
Speaker 1: feel like you're the special one. If they pay you
37:11
Speaker 1: this attention and then it's abusive and you don't know
37:16
Speaker 1: what to do about it. It just makes me angry,
37:18
Speaker 1: breaks my heart. Other women have wrote about how these
37:22
Speaker 1: lyrics normalized behavior from boyfriends, maybe even glorifying, glorifying behavior
37:28
Speaker 1: like oh my boyfriend is so artistic or emotional thoughts
37:31
Speaker 1: like that, And we talked about the romanticizing of emotional
37:34
Speaker 1: men that happens a lot. It's kind of like a
37:36
Speaker 1: running joke about the difference between men's pornography and women's pornography,
37:41
Speaker 1: and that doesn't have to be bad at all, but
37:43
Speaker 1: if this emotion is harmful, one sided, and toxic, then yes,
37:45
Speaker 1: that is bad. It is bad, especially when we think
37:49
Speaker 1: about young girls absorbing these messages and internalizing them, believing
37:52
Speaker 1: that's what relationships look like. Are even yeah, young boys too,
37:55
Speaker 1: um that that's what romance looks like and that's their
37:58
Speaker 1: role to play in it. There's also a lot of
38:00
Speaker 1: romantization of trashy campaign I find that's common in a
38:03
Speaker 1: lot of our media, actually, that we really romanticize this
38:05
Speaker 1: idea of like the tragic loner hero often or anti hero,
38:11
Speaker 1: whatever the case may be. So that can be problematic
38:15
Speaker 1: for people to absorb as this is what romance looks like. Right. Yes, Oh,
38:23
Speaker 1: and this is a fact I found interesting. Other music
38:26
Speaker 1: experts have written that in many cases lead male singers
38:29
Speaker 1: have this like nasally quality and these songs that are
38:33
Speaker 1: even not so great singing skills that would have been
38:35
Speaker 1: critiqued the hell out of anyone that wasn't sis male
38:39
Speaker 1: and we're straight that they are benefiting from a privilege
38:42
Speaker 1: of being whiny and emotional when women are punished for
38:45
Speaker 1: being trill and hysterical. In fact, women who have made
38:49
Speaker 1: it in the emo pop punk scene have had to
38:51
Speaker 1: be exceptional when it comes to skill of all, and
38:53
Speaker 1: one of the articles specifically gave examples of Haley Williams
38:56
Speaker 1: and April Lavine was like, they have four range octave,
38:58
Speaker 1: Like they can do all of this amazing stuff. Meanwhile,
39:02
Speaker 1: a lot of email dudes are singing like one octave,
39:06
Speaker 1: kind of just like mumble talking into the micro. Mumble core,
39:10
Speaker 1: y'all mumblecore that exists. Uh No, it's absolutely true, because
39:14
Speaker 1: when you start looking at the newer wave, I guess
39:17
Speaker 1: because Panic at the Disco came a little later. He
39:19
Speaker 1: actually has a vocal range and it can actually sing
39:22
Speaker 1: and hit different rages. But then you hit like Deathcat
39:26
Speaker 1: for Cutie. He has a kind of operatic falsetto sound,
39:32
Speaker 1: doesn't hit many of the cores, and he's very distinctive.
39:36
Speaker 1: But if you heard him seeing regularly, it wouldn't be impressive.
39:39
Speaker 1: You just kind of stared and be like all right
39:40
Speaker 1: and move on. If you hear individual other stuff like that.
39:45
Speaker 1: Dash Works Confessional. I can't quite remember. I don't think
39:48
Speaker 1: it was all off Coolhan Luke. I don't know if
39:51
Speaker 1: you remember who they were. He was Indie and he
39:53
Speaker 1: was a little more on the Christian scene. He was
39:56
Speaker 1: that level too, can s. But he seems so cool
40:01
Speaker 1: and his lyrics seems so cool. So the title his
40:04
Speaker 1: name was good cool and you would appreciate that, but
40:07
Speaker 1: it actually comes from the movie. I'm sorry, but all
40:12
Speaker 1: of those things are very different in sound, and you're like,
40:14
Speaker 1: like that, this doesn't make sense. Not everybody. They just
40:17
Speaker 1: have a band and they have some vocals in the background. Great,
40:21
Speaker 1: but that's about the end of it. Yeah, I mean,
40:24
Speaker 1: what do you think about it? And I don't want
40:26
Speaker 1: to if you're listening to that. I loved a lot
40:29
Speaker 1: of this music, and I still listen to a lot
40:31
Speaker 1: of this music and enjoy it. But if you think
40:32
Speaker 1: about it, like a lot of it is pretty you know,
40:36
Speaker 1: one kind of range and similar in topic was it?
40:41
Speaker 1: And they would say that for a lot of pop
40:42
Speaker 1: to they talked about They make fun of that all
40:44
Speaker 1: the time, and typically they make fun of girls pop
40:47
Speaker 1: singers who were like they can only sing four notes.
40:50
Speaker 1: But then if you take them out like Miley Sorus
40:52
Speaker 1: is a great example. If you think she's just a
40:54
Speaker 1: pop singer and then you hear her sing outside of
40:56
Speaker 1: and she can hold those ranges, and she can hold
40:59
Speaker 1: those notes, and she and hit every note without phasing it,
41:02
Speaker 1: and you're like, hey, she's a singer, she gets it.
41:05
Speaker 1: I can't hit those actors. Stop trying, Samantha, stop trying.
41:10
Speaker 1: But there are things like that that you see people
41:13
Speaker 1: dismiss easily because they seem like a joke, but in
41:16
Speaker 1: actuality they have a talent beyond right. And people have
41:20
Speaker 1: called down Taylor supposed to say, yeah, I'm a big,
41:24
Speaker 1: big believer in you know, pop music has been really
41:30
Speaker 1: looked down on, especially because I think the fans are
41:32
Speaker 1: a lot of women and girls, and the singers often
41:36
Speaker 1: are to you and actually quite talented, and we always
41:40
Speaker 1: have to ask, like if the song is resonating, then
41:42
Speaker 1: we have to ask why something's working right. So, yes,
41:47
Speaker 1: admittedly exaggerating our heightening of emotions, it's not unique to
41:51
Speaker 1: emo music at all. As the name might suggest. They
41:54
Speaker 1: might have gone, you know, above the average, but it
41:58
Speaker 1: is it's normal. Some of the bands have addressed their
42:01
Speaker 1: past misogynistic lyrics and made changes. I mean, even before
42:05
Speaker 1: this we were talking about past poetry. A lot of
42:07
Speaker 1: my past poetry was really emo and like violent and
42:13
Speaker 1: stuff that was unnecessary, but I was going I was
42:16
Speaker 1: working through stuff. My mom found mine and asked me
42:18
Speaker 1: if I was okay as a teenager. So yeah, So
42:24
Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's it is more emotional and off,
42:29
Speaker 1: I'm more violent. But music at large does that a
42:32
Speaker 1: lot um and a large swath of music has a
42:35
Speaker 1: history of being misogynistic, including rock and pop that Emo
42:39
Speaker 1: grew out of. Others have correctly pointed out too that
42:42
Speaker 1: while hip hop has been called out and sometimes dismissed
42:44
Speaker 1: for misogyny for years, Emo and it's softer toxic masculinity,
42:50
Speaker 1: as it's called How the Long Escaped It. Yeah, but
42:54
Speaker 1: we're talking about Emo today, so that's the that was
42:56
Speaker 1: the target, I mean, And to be fair, one of
43:00
Speaker 1: the songs that called out the most was PanAm Moore song,
43:03
Speaker 1: which is interesting in itself. Yes, I found that to
43:06
Speaker 1: be true as well. But there is hope the Emo
43:11
Speaker 1: Revival has a more female artist than ever that's going
43:14
Speaker 1: on right now. Um though, yes, we still have a
43:16
Speaker 1: long long way to go from the band. She heard
43:20
Speaker 1: her song killing the Boy Band. Here's some lyrics. So
43:24
Speaker 1: you started a band, We'll let me guess who's in it?
43:26
Speaker 1: All straight, all white, able bodied systsmen say, you don't
43:30
Speaker 1: know many female musicians, why the they want to be
43:32
Speaker 1: part of a scene with people like you in it?
43:35
Speaker 1: So yes, yes, and oh my goodness, listeners, if you
43:42
Speaker 1: have any emo bands or pop punk bands with women
43:48
Speaker 1: in them that we should be listening to, we want
43:50
Speaker 1: those suggestions. I am ready. Christine has got tons of
43:55
Speaker 1: these suggestions, producer, send them our way. You can email us,
44:01
Speaker 1: Christina are also just you know, talk to us whatever
44:05
Speaker 1: way you're more comfortable with. But listeners of you would
44:08
Speaker 1: like to email us, you can or email Stuff Media
44:10
Speaker 1: mom Stuff at I Hurt meia dot com. You can
44:12
Speaker 1: find us on Twitter, app, mom Stuff podcast or on
44:14
Speaker 1: Instagram at stuff. I never told you thinks there's always
44:17
Speaker 1: to her super producer, Christina, I thought she's really emo.
44:21
Speaker 1: She got it and thanks to you for this thing.
44:24
Speaker 1: Stuff on ever told these prodection I Hi Radio for
44:26
Speaker 1: more podcast from my Heart Radio is her radio app
44:28
Speaker 1: Apple Podcast wherever you listen to your favorite shows