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Transcript

“Girlfriend, you are so on.” (Debate recap special!) · Pod Save America

• 0:20
  Speaker 1: Welcome to Pod Save America. I'm Jon Favreau.
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: I'm Jon Lovett. I'm Tommy Vitor.
• 0:23
  Speaker 3: I'm Dan Pfeiffer.
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: Got all four of us here in Los Angeles to
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: talk about this week's Democratic debate spectacular. Joining us soon,
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: floating into the office, will be Marianne Williamson.
• 0:33
  Speaker 3: I thought she was going to call in from space.
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: Marianne. Unbelievable.
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: What are you doing? What are we doing? We have
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: a lot to talk about. A few housekeeping items first.
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: Make sure to check out our various funds. The Fuck
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: Jerry Fund, Fuck Gerrymandering, very important after the Supreme Court
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: yesterday decided that courts can do nothing about partisan gerrymandering.
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: Uh.
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: and maps that have been drawn by republicans to ensure
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: their elections so uh... you can go to that fun
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: we can flip state legislatures all over the country so
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: the democrats have the power to draw these maps and
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: stick supreme court has told us to go fuck ourselves uh...
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: also are unified or die fund uh... which make sure
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: that whoever the nominee is whoever comes out of this
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: fucking clown car uh... next year has enough money to
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: run against Donald Trump, who is just amassing piles and
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: piles of cash all while these Democrats fight each other.
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: Give before you hate your opponent too much.
• 1:31
  Speaker 4: That's exactly right. The hate is simmering now for the
• 1:35
  Speaker 4: other guy.
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: It's going to go up.
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: The Fuck Jerry Fund is votesaveamerica.com slash gerrymandering, and Unify
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: or Die is votesaveamerica.com slash unify. There's also some merch,
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: if you like that kind of thing, at store.cricket.com. You
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: can buy some t-shirts. Also, Love It or Leave It
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: will be live at the Improv on July 2nd. Love
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: It will be joined by Emily Heller in a special
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: Love It and Heller 4th of July Spectacular. Is that
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: what you guys are calling it?
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: Apparently. It's going to be great. It's a new format. Oh, wow.
• 2:05
  Speaker 3: Oh, exciting.
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: So some of it will be great. Some of it
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: will cut.
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: So if you want to hear the cut parts, go
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: to the fucking Improv. It's crooked.com slash events.
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: Make sure you're all caught up on with friends like these.
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: This month has been conspiracy month. From QAnon to witches,
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: Ana has had a lot of guests on to discuss
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: conspiracy theories and their effects and origins. Check that out. Also,
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: June's entire Crooked miniseries, Pride on Screen, is out now.
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: Hosted by Travelle Anderson, director of culture and entertainment at
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: Out Magazine, the series looks back at moments in TV
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: and film that changed the course of LGBTQ history. So
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: check that out.
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: That's got to be the end of housekeeping, right?
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: There was actually a couple more optional things. I'm skipping over.
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: Skipping over because we've got to get to this. All right,
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: let's start with the first debate.
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: John, can I get in here? Can I get in
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: here for a second?
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: You'll get your 90 seconds. You'll get your 90 seconds,
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: John Delaney.
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: I'm sorry, can I just get in here for a sec?
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: I just need to get in here for a second
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: to say that I was born on a farm. I
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: was born on a fucking farm.
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: Excuse me, I'm pulling at 1%, but I practiced a
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: hit on someone who's pulling it. 15 or higher, you're
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: just going to let me have to do that hit now.
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: I don't care how awkward it sounds. I'm just going
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: to attack the person at the other end of the stage.
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: I dropped a beta blocker into a venti before I
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: got out here, and I am fucking pumped. All right.
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: Let's start with the first debate. I want to dive
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: into the substance just a bit before we get into
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: individual performances, which is the whole purpose of analyzing a debate,
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: as we know. And I thought that the first topic
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: where there was an actual debate between the candidates was
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: health care. which started when they were asked by the
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: moderators to raise their hands if they were in favor
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: of abolishing private insurance in favor of a government-run plan.
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: The question was a little confusing because Lester Holt said,
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: there's people in the audience and people at home who
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: love their insurance plan, their private insurance plan. Who on
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: stage would replace their private plan with a government-run plan?
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: The first night, people seemed to get it. The second night,
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: people had a harder time understanding it. But only Elizabeth
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: Warren and Bill de Blasio raised their hand for abolishing
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: private insurance. It's interesting because previously Warren has talked about
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: and talked about to Tommy here at Pod Save America
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: about how even though she's on Bernie's Medicare for All bill,
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: she's all about whatever path there is to get to
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: universal health care she'll be for.
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: She's leaving options open.
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: But she raised her hand on this. So what did
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: you think about that, Dan?
• 4:31
  Speaker 3: I think she has been... for Bernie Sanders' Medicare for
• 4:34
  Speaker 3: All plan from the beginning. And she had a choice,
• 4:37
  Speaker 3: which is stand by her original position or look as
• 4:40
  Speaker 3: if she was shifting. I think she politically did the best,
• 4:44
  Speaker 3: she picked the best option there because her, for as
• 4:47
  Speaker 3: much as we talk about Elizabeth Warren has plans, what
• 4:50
  Speaker 3: has fueled her success in recent months is that she
• 4:54
  Speaker 3: has had bold plans and she has been unafraid. And
• 4:56
  Speaker 3: I think the moment where her campaign really kicked into
• 4:59
  Speaker 3: gear was her student debt elimination plan, which was a
• 5:03
  Speaker 3: point where she said she would go bolder on an
• 5:05
  Speaker 3: issue than even Bernie Sanders. So if she were to
• 5:07
  Speaker 3: walk that back and seem more like a traditional politician here,
• 5:10
  Speaker 3: I think that would be potentially being very damaging. So
• 5:12
  Speaker 3: she decided to own her original position instead of trying
• 5:15
  Speaker 3: to shift. And while there may be general election consequences
• 5:18
  Speaker 3: for that, this was the right move to make right here.
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: Were you guys surprised? I didn't think that the argument
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: between the public option folks and the Medicare for All
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: folks was all that strident during either of these nights.
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: I just think that most people were confused.
• 5:39
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 5:39
  Speaker 4: You know, like I could kind of follow it most
• 5:41
  Speaker 4: of the time because we've paid a lot of attention
• 5:44
  Speaker 4: to this issue. I don't think most people at home,
• 5:46
  Speaker 4: unless you're an ardent Bertie supporter and you've been conditioned
• 5:50
  Speaker 4: to believe that his position in Maximus Medicare for All
• 5:53
  Speaker 4: is the only way to achieve universal care and get
• 5:56
  Speaker 4: people the care they need. I don't know that you
• 5:58
  Speaker 4: came away understanding the contrast.
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's interesting. Bennett, I think, gave the most full-throated
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: argument about the political problems and practical problems of going
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: to Medicare for All. Klobuchar got at it a bit.
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: But then really, I think what we have here is
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: a public option being defended defensively by Pete, by Klobuchar,
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: by others, because it's become, I mean, even the New
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: York Times described it as incrementalist, and fine, you can
• 6:31
  Speaker 2: call it incrementalist, but it was only a few short
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: years ago that when it was too radical to pass
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: a Democratic Senate. So, you know, there's this problem in
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: these debates, which is I think those who would, the
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: The maximal position is easier to defend politically. It's more
• 6:48
  Speaker 2: fun to defend because it's bolder. And there aren't people
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: on that stage with the confidence in their views and
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: the feeling that they have the trust of Democrats enough
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: to tell them something hard or complex.
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I was going to say, I think,
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: and this is especially true the second night. The first
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: night it all sort of just jumbled and I think
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: it was very confusing. I think on the second night,
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: the people advocating for public option or Medicare for America
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: or whatever it may be, I thought, made a more
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: compelling case than Bernie did on why you need Medicare
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: for All specifically. Bernie made a great case on health
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: care in general and why the system is fucked and
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: why you need to change it. But I think it's
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: incumbent upon Bernie, I guess, because probably some of the
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: other ones who signed on to his bill don't really
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: care if people know that they're on his bill or
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: they're for a public option, to be totally honest.
• 7:36
  Speaker 3: No, they want them to think both.
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: They want them to think both.
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: And Bernie....
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: Why it is that you need everyone to transition within
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: four years to a single government-run plan versus what Pete said,
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: what some of these other people said, which is, look,
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: everyone in the country would have the option to enroll
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: in Medicare if you want it. And if you don't
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: want it, you can stay in your private insurance. And
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: if you're watching at home, you kind of think like, yeah,
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: that sort of makes sense. Now, there's a really good argument,
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: I think, on the single-payer side, why that's not sufficient,
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: why you have a more efficient system if you just
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: make everyone take the leap into single... payer, but I
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: don't know that I heard anyone make it over the
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: two nights.
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: No.
• 8:18
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, I heard a lot of arguments that
• 8:20
  Speaker 4: were like, look, we all share the same goal, and
• 8:22
  Speaker 4: I'm sort of agnostic on how we get there.
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: The only person I heard make... Beto O'Rourke made an
• 8:27
  Speaker 2: argument that.
• 8:27
  Speaker 4: Was specific against getting rid of private insurance by saying
• 8:32
  Speaker 4: some unions had bargained for better health care in lieu
• 8:35
  Speaker 4: of wages, and you want to take that away from them.
• 8:38
  Speaker 4: I'm not saying that that was compelling, but it was
• 8:39
  Speaker 4: the most specific thing I'd heard maybe against.
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, a couple of those folks, maybe not during the debate,
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: but other times have brought up the union negotiating point,
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: which is huge. And John Delaney, who is very annoying
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: the first night overall, but he brought up an argument
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: that you'll probably hear again from people, which is he's like,
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: you talk to hospital administrators and you say, under Bernie's bill,
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: you're going to get the same reimbursement rate from the
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: government for Medicare. than you do now for Medicare, except
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: instead of some of your patients, it's going to be
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: all your patients. And what would that do? He's like,
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: in hospital, administrators everywhere will tell you what we'd have
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: to close down.
• 9:11
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think Bernie's point would be that highlights the problem,
• 9:15
  Speaker 3: which is with a for-profit healthcare system. I think here,
• 9:20
  Speaker 3: other than Bernie and Elizabeth Warren, most of these people
• 9:24
  Speaker 3: are full of shit on this issue. Let's just be
• 9:26
  Speaker 3: totally honest. All the senators who are running for president,
• 9:29
  Speaker 3: as soon as they thought they might run for president
• 9:31
  Speaker 3: and sign on to Bernie's bill. They didn't care what
• 9:33
  Speaker 3: it said. They didn't care about the transition period. They
• 9:36
  Speaker 3: just wanted to be able to tell voters they were
• 9:37
  Speaker 3: for Medicare for all. Then as soon as they started
• 9:39
  Speaker 3: running and they had to answer a question about the
• 9:42
  Speaker 3: elimination of private insurance, then they also then opened up
• 9:45
  Speaker 3: a series of other less aggressive options, less aggressive relative
• 9:49
  Speaker 3: to Bernie's plan, but incredibly progressive and aggressive compared to
• 9:51
  Speaker 3: where we have been. And they want to have their
• 9:54
  Speaker 3: cake and eat it too. They want to be able
• 9:55
  Speaker 3: to say, yeah, I'm for Medicare for all. Gillibrand in
• 9:57
  Speaker 3: the second night who has been... I think, very slippery
• 10:01
  Speaker 3: on this issue since your interview with her, when you said,
• 10:03
  Speaker 3: you're for Medicare for all. She's like, yes, I am
• 10:05
  Speaker 3: definitely for Medicare for all. I think people should be
• 10:07
  Speaker 3: able to buy into Medicare.
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: I know, and I was like, what are you talking about?
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, no, and if you push her on this, and
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: if you push her on the transition, she then goes
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: to her talking point, which is, I wrote the bill
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: about the transition. And then you say, but wait, what
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: happens during that transition. And she says, well, people have
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: a choice to leave their insurance for Medicare. And I
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: believe they will choose Medicare ultimately.
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: Over that four year window. That's not Bernie's bill.
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: Well, it's, it's not only is it not Marie bill
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: it again, it elides the actual political reality of at
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: some point, if you switch everyone to Medicare, you're switching
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: everyone to Medicare. Yeah.
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: So I think that was that I think that's the,
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: not the last we've heard of that. And as the
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: field slims down, and Bernie is still in that slimmed-down field,
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: he's going to start picking that fight a little more
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: clearly with people and putting them.
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: On the record. Yeah, as he should.
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: So next big exchange the first night was over immigration,
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: and it was between Julian Castro and Beto O'Rourke. Beto
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: began laying out his immigration plan. Castro interrupted to point
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: out that Beto was against the repeal of Section 1325.
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: I think we have a clip of this.
• 11:09
  Speaker 5: A lot of folks that are coming are not seeking asylum.
• 11:12
  Speaker 3: A lot of them are undocumented immigrants, right?
• 11:15
  Speaker 5: And you said recently that the reason you didn't want
• 11:18
  Speaker 5: to repeal Section 1325 was because you were concerned about
• 11:22
  Speaker 5: human trafficking and drug trafficking.
• 11:24
  Speaker 3: But let me tell you what. Section 18, Title 18
• 11:28
  Speaker 3: of the U.S.
• 11:28
  Speaker 4: Code, Title 21 and Title 22 already cover human trafficking.
• 11:33
  Speaker 5: I think that you should do your homework on this issue.
• 11:36
  Speaker 5: If you did your homework on this issue, you would
• 11:38
  Speaker 5: know that we should repeal this section.
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: So that was a lively exchange.
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: Can I just make one small point about just debates
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: in general? Something I have never understood. There is no
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: moment more likely to get a candidate far off in
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: the wings than to jump in than when two people
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: are already talking. What is it about two human beings
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: already having an exchange that gets John Delaney so fucking
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: worked up?
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: Bill de Blasio. Bill de Blasio. They were just waiting.
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: It's the most frustrating thing. Already twice as many people
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: are talking at once as we need. Already.
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: So for those of you at home who don't understand
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: what 1325 is or aren't familiar with Section 88, 852, 30, 40, 50.
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: For those of you listening.
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: At home who aren't the physical manifestation of congress.gov.
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: So 1325 is the part of the law that says
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: if there is an unlawful or an unauthorized entry into
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: this country, if you cross the border, it is treated
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: as a misdemeanor crime. Not a felony, but a misdemeanor crime.
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: And that's been on the books since 1920. The reason
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: it's being brought up is the Trump administration used this
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: old law to say, well, we can prosecute anyone who
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: comes over the border. And if you come over the
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: border and you're an adult, we can hold you and
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: then we can separate your child from you. So it
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: was how they did the child separation policy. So what
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: Castro is saying is we should repeal that law, which
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: criminalizes immigration. And we should basically say that if you
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: come over the border, cross the border, and it's unauthorized,
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: we are not treating it as a crime at all.
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: We're treating it as a civil infraction. We can still
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: deport you if we want, but we're going to treat
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: it as a civil infraction. And that way, no president
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: ever can do this family separation policy. And by the way, now,
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: most candidates in the race have joined Castro's position. Beto
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: has not, though I think we would all agree his
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: explanation was It's fairly nonsensical.
• 13:46
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 13:46
  Speaker 4: I mean, I would say, look, the pundits and the
• 13:50
  Speaker 4: judges all scored this is a big win for Castro.
• 13:53
  Speaker 4: And I think they're right. It was in part because
• 13:55
  Speaker 4: the you need to do your homework line landed strongly.
• 13:59
  Speaker 4: And Beto just sort of seemed to not have a response.
• 14:03
  Speaker 4: And it was the second time in the night where
• 14:04
  Speaker 4: someone went after him and he didn't respond, which in
• 14:07
  Speaker 4: this context makes you look like a weak debater. And
• 14:10
  Speaker 4: when we're all judging who can stand up to Donald Trump.
• 14:12
  Speaker 4: That's probably more important than any of the substance of
• 14:14
  Speaker 4: what they're actually talking about. That said, when Castro started
• 14:17
  Speaker 4: in on this answer, I was like, you are making
• 14:19
  Speaker 4: a really important point in a fucking incomprehensible way. If
• 14:22
  Speaker 4: you're citing the number or code of a law and
• 14:25
  Speaker 4: saying 1325, it doesn't lend itself to people at home
• 14:29
  Speaker 4: really understanding what you're getting at. Now, clearly he won
• 14:31
  Speaker 4: the exchange. This was a big moment for him. But
• 14:34
  Speaker 4: just as an observer in the moment, I wonder how
• 14:37
  Speaker 4: many people knew what he was talking about.
• 14:38
  Speaker 3: I think it's to his advantage that they didn't. I'm
• 14:41
  Speaker 3: being dead serious. I was talking with a family member
• 14:43
  Speaker 3: of mine who watched the debate, didn't really know a
• 14:45
  Speaker 3: lot about Castro, thought he did really well, and thought
• 14:49
  Speaker 3: he definitely won that exchange with Beto. And then I
• 14:51
  Speaker 3: explained what Castro was arguing for. And my family member
• 14:55
  Speaker 3: was like, oh, that seems like it might be a problem.
• 14:59
  Speaker 3: And not that I think they think that it's a
• 15:01
  Speaker 3: good or bad policy, but I don't think my family
• 15:03
  Speaker 3: member is an expert in immigration policy. But it was like,
• 15:06
  Speaker 3: that seems like a political problem.
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: And let's be clear about why. Because Julian Castro is
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: trying to make it seem like if you don't want
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: to repeal 1325, then you're not going to repeal this
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: family separation policy. That is not true. It is true
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: that 1325 is what gives Donald Trump the ability to
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: have the family separation policy. The next president on literally
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: her or his first day in office can just end
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: any family separation policy and basically has a ton of power.
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: to decide who to deport and who not to deport,
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: all on their own through executive action.
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we remember when Jeff Sessions created family separation. We
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: can uncreate it.
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: Exactly. So Castro's trying to conflate it with family separation
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: to make it seem more popular. In truth, and Juliette Kayyem,
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: who had been in the Department of Homeland Security during
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: the Obama administration, sort of laid this out on Twitter
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: that night. She said, making unauthorized border crossings a criminal penalty,
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: just a misdemeanor, not even a felony, is is the
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: basis for all of our enforcement in making sure that,
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: in disincentivizing immigration into this country, to just say that
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: anyone can come here. So if Beto had a good answer,
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: you know, what he could have defended his policy by
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: saying like, look, of course I'm going to end family separation,
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: mass detention, mass deportation. But at some point, you don't
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: want to have an incentive through our laws to to
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: tell people anyone can come here without applying for citizenship
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: or asylum or whatever you may do. You just come
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: across the border and you're fine. It's only a civil infraction.
• 16:40
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: I mean, also just, we're stepping back. There was a
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: few moments in both nights where the policy debate in
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: a Democratic primary and the policy debate a Democratic president
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: would ultimately have were so far apart as to render
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: it basically pointless. It would be pointless, but for the
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: fact that it could be politically damaging in a general.
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: You know, there was that moment on gun confiscation. there
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: was a conversation about climate mitigation policies, which is basically
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: a discussion about flood insurance backstops. If there's flooding in Miami,
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: we've got a president denying the existence of climate change.
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: And we're like, would you insure people who bought houses
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: in floodplains? What planet are we on? And a few
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: moments like that on healthcare as well. But on immigration,
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: we've been having a debate about comprehensive immigration reform for
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: a very, very long time. The axis of that debate
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: is not, should we decriminalize border crossings? It's, Can we
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: get enough people to the table to just help dreamers
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: who came here as children? I mean, we have been and.
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: We can't pass that, let alone let alone making sure
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: that the 11 million who are already here get citizenship,
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: which everyone also agrees on.
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, Kamala in night two made this point about,
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: you know, she wants people who are, you know, who
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: have been attacked to be able to call the police.
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: That's all that's correct. Like there are incredibly important things
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: we need to do around immigration and And as part
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: of getting to the point where we can help the
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: millions of people who are here actually make sensible policy,
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: the debate will not turn on decriminalizing the border. It
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: will be turning on some other very, very hard compromises
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: to get not just Republicans, but Democrats to go along
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: with any kind of comprehensive immigration proposal.
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: I guarantee the next Democratic president will not be talking
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: about repealing 1325 or get it done in legislation. The
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: next Democratic president will say, I have decriminalized immigration by
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: making sure that we only deport the most dangerous criminals
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: and we push for citizenship for everyone else. That's what
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: they're going to say.
• 18:32
  Speaker 3: And we've banned the family separation policy. There's also another.
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: And mass detention. And by the way, you can do
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: all that and be better than Obama was on immigration, right?
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: You can still improve on what he did, especially in
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: the first term, which I think Obama did better by
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: the end of his presidency, but you can still be
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: better than that and not completely decriminalize immigration in the
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: law and have no law that says it's a crime
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: to come here.
• 18:56
  Speaker 3: If a president can, or his attorney general can unilaterally
• 19:01
  Speaker 3: implement or not implement family separation policy, you can also
• 19:04
  Speaker 3: put it in law. Yep. You can say that as part,
• 19:06
  Speaker 3: whether it's part of a dreamer package or if we
• 19:09
  Speaker 3: ever get to conference immigration reform.
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: That's true too.
• 19:10
  Speaker 3: You can, I believe, keep section whatever, whatever on the
• 19:14
  Speaker 3: books and ensure that it's still a criminal felony to
• 19:18
  Speaker 3: come in the country, but you can prevent... the administration
• 19:22
  Speaker 3: from ever implementing, this administration or any one future, implementing
• 19:25
  Speaker 3: a cruel and inhumane policy like family separation.
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: I mean, stepping back.
• 19:28
  Speaker 3: Which is the answer that Beto can and should have given. Yeah.
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: Stepping back.
• 19:31
  Speaker 3: Or anyone, frankly, anyone on that stage, anyone on the
• 19:34
  Speaker 3: party who has gotten that question since then, it's like
• 19:37
  Speaker 3: we are in this rush to avoid, to get to
• 19:41
  Speaker 3: a position where we're not going to get attacked by
• 19:43
  Speaker 3: people in our own party. When you can have a
• 19:45
  Speaker 3: more nuanced approach, it is not, I am for what
• 19:48
  Speaker 3: Castro is for, or I'm for, or I'm Trump. There
• 19:51
  Speaker 3: is something in the middle, and someone should have made
• 19:52
  Speaker 3: that argument.
• 19:53
  Speaker 4: Castro certainly succeeded in finally getting attention for having the
• 19:57
  Speaker 4: immigration policy that was the furthest to the left of
• 20:00
  Speaker 4: anyone by far and doing it early. And to his
• 20:03
  Speaker 4: great credit, he came prepared with an answer to press
• 20:05
  Speaker 4: that point. What's particularly hard about this for Beto O'Rourke
• 20:09
  Speaker 4: and his campaign is that He also has a comprehensive
• 20:11
  Speaker 4: immigration plan. It's an issue that he has real fluency
• 20:15
  Speaker 4: and understanding of having come from El Paso. And to
• 20:18
  Speaker 4: seem like you were unprepared on a very predictable attack sucks.
• 20:25
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 20:25
  Speaker 3: I mean, it is like from a pure debate performance perspective,
• 20:30
  Speaker 3: it did not go well for him. from an actual
• 20:33
  Speaker 3: being a leader with a thoughtful position, he did the
• 20:37
  Speaker 3: right thing. He could have just done what everyone else did,
• 20:40
  Speaker 3: which was just go immediately to the position that will
• 20:43
  Speaker 3: get me the most applause in this moment. And it is,
• 20:45
  Speaker 3: I think, it is from the fact that he actually
• 20:49
  Speaker 3: lives on the border of the United States that he
• 20:52
  Speaker 3: takes this more seriously, not Castro, who takes it incredibly seriously,
• 20:58
  Speaker 3: but Some of the other people were just like, yeah, sure,
• 21:00
  Speaker 3: I'll be for that. That seems like that'll get me retweets.
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right.
• 21:03
  Speaker 4: But look, if you're an expert in this and you
• 21:07
  Speaker 4: know your position is being misrepresented and the moment concludes
• 21:11
  Speaker 4: with do your homework, you have to say, fuck the moderator.
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: I'm jumping in and rebutting. And more important for Beto
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: to do that in this moment than any other candidate
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: on that stage, given the place his campaign is in.
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: All right, so the next big moment was about Iran.
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: Moderator asked who as president would sign onto the 2015
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: Iran deal as originally negotiated. Everyone said yes, except Cory Booker,
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: who said that if he has an opportunity to leverage
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: a better deal, he'll do it. Tommy, what did you
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: think about that?
• 21:46
  Speaker 4: Okay, let's just stipulate that I'm incredibly biased. But I
• 21:50
  Speaker 4: thought Cory Booker's answer.
• 21:51
  Speaker 3: You're biased against war with Iran.
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: No, but I'm biased towards an Obama policy. Fine, stipulated, right?
• 21:57
  Speaker 4: But my problem with Booker's answer... And frankly, the whole
• 21:59
  Speaker 4: exchange with him and Klobuchar was how defensive they were
• 22:02
  Speaker 4: about the Iran deal. Like the Iran deal had one goal.
• 22:05
  Speaker 4: We were preventing Iran from getting a nuclear weapon and
• 22:07
  Speaker 4: it was working. And you do not have to adopt
• 22:10
  Speaker 4: all these fucking Republican talking points about how the deal
• 22:12
  Speaker 4: wasn't perfect because it didn't deal with ICBMs and ballistic
• 22:15
  Speaker 4: missiles and it didn't deal with, you know, their malign
• 22:18
  Speaker 4: activities in Yemen, right? The Iran deal was about nuclear weapons.
• 22:22
  Speaker 4: So Cory Booker should stand up for diplomacy that was working.
• 22:25
  Speaker 4: And if he wants to get a better deal, get
• 22:27
  Speaker 4: back in the deal. deal with the problem that we're
• 22:30
  Speaker 4: immediately facing, which is the Iranians enriching nuclear material beyond
• 22:34
  Speaker 4: the thresholds allowed for in the deal, and then negotiate
• 22:36
  Speaker 4: a follow-on agreement about that, about other issues, whatever. But
• 22:41
  Speaker 4: this notion that we now have some added leverage with
• 22:44
  Speaker 4: the Iranians is a fucking fantasy. We are more divided
• 22:47
  Speaker 4: than ever with all the other parties to the deal,
• 22:49
  Speaker 4: all the Europeans, the international community, and the Iranians don't
• 22:53
  Speaker 4: trust us because we pulled out of the thing. We
• 22:55
  Speaker 4: empowered all the fucking hardliners in Tehran who were opposed
• 22:58
  Speaker 4: to the deal to begin with. Now the IRGC and
• 23:01
  Speaker 4: the Quds Force and Qasem Soleimani and these thugs are
• 23:04
  Speaker 4: running wild.
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: So it's a stupid answer.
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: It's a stupid, inexcusable answer. Why do you think of
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: him of all people decided.
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: To do that?
• 23:11
  Speaker 4: He was hesitant to get in the deal in the
• 23:13
  Speaker 4: first place. There were a whole lot of people and
• 23:15
  Speaker 4: voices in Washington that were casting doubt on the thing.
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: But you know what?
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: It's also good politics. Not just in a Democratic primary.
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: but general.
• 23:24
  Speaker 4: People don't want a war with Iran. They want a
• 23:26
  Speaker 4: negotiated solution to the problem. It's an inexcusable answer for me.
• 23:30
  Speaker 4: I cannot support someone that isn't full-throated in defense of diplomacy.
• 23:36
  Speaker 4: And I think Cory Booker has been like an undervalued
• 23:40
  Speaker 4: candidate and stock in this whole process. And I just
• 23:43
  Speaker 4: can't even stress how disappointed I was in that moment.
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: It is. Thinking about it, it's one of those things
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: that makes you realize how different judging these debates and
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: performances is compared to judging them on the policy substance merits.
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: Because most people coming out of that first debate said,
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: Cory Booker had a great night tonight. Cory Booker had
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: a few good moments. I, and we should say, by
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: the way, none of us watched the debate on Twitter.
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: We watched it during our group thread, which is a
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: fucking blessing. And I'm never watching them on Twitter again.
• 24:11
  Speaker 3: Stay in our echo chamber.
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: If you had told, if you had asked me immediately
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: after that debate, like who had an amazing night, I
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: would have said Warren did really great. You know, Castro
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: had that moment. I don't know that I would have
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: said Booker, but... I would have said Khloe Bouchard before Booker.
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: As I've gone back, like, he had a really powerful
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: answer on guns. I do think that from Cory Booker.
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: I agree.
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: I think he did a great job there. But where
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: I noticed Booker most was on that Iran answer, and
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: I was like, what is he doing there? It was
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: very weird, because substantively, it wasn't good.
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't... Yeah, we can get into the style
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: points in a bit. I don't... I was surprised people
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: thought Cory Booker had such a great night. I thought he...
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: once again failed to match the rhetoric like the the
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: main message of his campaign with any specificity and any
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: answer whatsoever that's my that's my.
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: View okay well uh we'll get to him later because
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: we should talk more about that but um what everyone
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: think of the answers to the uh what will you
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: do if mitch mcconnell is senate majority leader when you're
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: president question i mean nobody has a good answer to
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: this question because i don't know that there is one
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: that's like i'm with tommy.
• 25:13
  Speaker 3: That's I mean, I guess it's a good question. It's important,
• 25:17
  Speaker 3: I guess. Sort of.
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: It is in the vein of all these moderators seeing
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: how far they can push everyone to the left and
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: how they can get the, you know, because what they
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: almost wanted someone to say is what you're never supposed
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: to say is like, yeah, I guess if I'm stuck
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: with him as majority leader and I didn't win the Senate,
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: I'll sit down with him and try to hash something out,
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: and then you'd be kicked out of the primary. That
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: would be it. Then the door opens up under your
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: podium and you just go down.
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Marianne Williams puts you in her witch's cauldron.
• 25:49
  Speaker 3: You just wake up and you're living in a crystal
• 25:50
  Speaker 3: in her pocket.
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: I mean, I do think Warren's answer, which some people
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: were like, I don't know, is the best answer, which is,
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: you've got to go out there and campaign, basically go
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: to Republican districts of senators who aren't with you on
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: your legislative agenda and try to pressure them politically. And
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: it's like, Barack Obama did that. It didn't necessarily work.
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: All the time.
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: You've got to win Senate seats. You've got to win
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: Senate seats.
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: Right. I mean, that's the thing. In that moment, it's like, yeah,
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: you can talk about the hypothetical of what happens if
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: we lose the Senate, but you just make the argument
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: of why we need to win the Senate.
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And it's the other reason why each of these candidates,
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: and we've been asking them this when they're here, should
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: have a robust agenda around executive actions and knowing who
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: you're going to appoint and your foreign policy, which are
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: all things that you can control. Because if Mitch McConnell
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: is the majority leader, you're not getting much through in
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: your legislative agenda. So you better have other plans.
• 26:35
  Speaker 3: Has it ever occurred to you that if Elizabeth Warren
• 26:36
  Speaker 3: becomes president, she gives Mitch McConnell a Senate seat for
• 26:39
  Speaker 3: like nine months?
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: Yes. I don't like it.
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: She gives him a Senate.
• 26:42
  Speaker 3: Seat because Charlie Baker would appoint a Republican Senator to
• 26:46
  Speaker 3: sit in her seat for.
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: Would we have a special, I feel like there's a law.
• 26:49
  Speaker 3: The Democrats changed the law in 2004 in the, Expectation
• 26:53
  Speaker 3: that we're probably right after the exit polls came in
• 26:54
  Speaker 3: that Kerry was going to win.
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: You're saying this is rigged.
• 26:57
  Speaker 3: You would get a special election, but it's like nine
• 26:59
  Speaker 3: months later.
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: I mean, then, yeah, Martha Coakley runs and we're fine.
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: Too soon.
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: The last big exchange of the night was between Tim
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: Ryan and Tulsi Gabbard. Didn't expect that coming. Over Afghanistan.
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: Do we have that clip? Let's listen to that because
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: that was something.
• 27:17
  Speaker 7: But the reality of it is if the United States
• 27:19
  Speaker 7: isn't engaged, the Taliban will grow, and they will have bigger,
• 27:25
  Speaker 7: bolder terrorist acts. We have got to have some present there.
• 27:29
  Speaker 7: The Taliban was.
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: There long before we came in.
• 27:32
  Speaker 7: They'll be there long before we leave. We cannot keep U.S.
• 27:36
  Speaker 7: troops deployed to Afghanistan thinking that we're going to somehow
• 27:40
  Speaker 7: squash this Taliban that has been there that every other country.
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: That's tried has failed. I didn't say squash them.
• 27:44
  Speaker 7: I didn't say squash them. When we weren't in there,
• 27:47
  Speaker 7: they started flying planes into our buildings. So I'm just
• 27:50
  Speaker 7: saying right now. The Taliban didn't attack us on 9-11.
• 27:52
  Speaker 6: Al-Qaeda did.
• 27:54
  Speaker 8: Al-Qaeda attacked us on 9-11.
• 27:56
  Speaker 7: That's why I and so many other people joined the
• 27:59
  Speaker 7: military to go.
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: After Al-Qaeda, not the Taliban. I could have gone better
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: for Tim. You do a long shot presidential bid. You
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: manage to scrape the 1% you need to get on
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: that fucking stage. And then you just fucking eat shit.
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: And Tulsi Gabbard kicks the shit out of you on
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: that stage. What are you doing there?
• 28:22
  Speaker 4: I mean, you can make an argument for saying we
• 28:25
  Speaker 4: need several thousand U.S. troops to remain in Afghanistan to train,
• 28:29
  Speaker 4: continue to train Afghan security forces to ensure that we
• 28:32
  Speaker 4: don't have a repeat of Iraq where we left completely
• 28:36
  Speaker 4: and ISIS overran them, whatever. OK, like it's not an
• 28:39
  Speaker 4: argument I agree with, but one could make it. But
• 28:41
  Speaker 4: to make it in such a unsophisticated way and then
• 28:46
  Speaker 4: confuse the taliban and al-qaeda is a huge problem but
• 28:51
  Speaker 4: also just a real quick thing about tulsi like she
• 28:54
  Speaker 4: was really strong in the moment she's credentialed and she
• 28:56
  Speaker 4: can make this case but just also all the tulsi
• 28:59
  Speaker 4: stands out there should look into the things she's talking
• 29:01
  Speaker 4: about in terms of coordinating with the russians and latimer
• 29:05
  Speaker 4: putin on counterterrorism like She doesn't have the best record
• 29:09
  Speaker 4: when it comes to U.S.
• 29:10
  Speaker 2: Counterterrorism policies.
• 29:10
  Speaker 3: Were there any red flags that Tim Ryan could have.
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: So he said the next day, he was like, I'm
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: not going to be lectured by someone who dines with
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: a dictator who gasses kids.
• 29:21
  Speaker 3: Great job, George Costanza.
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I was going to say, referring to her friendship.
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: With Bashar al-Assad. There's a term for this in French,
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: and I don't know how to pronounce it.
• 29:31
  Speaker 5: Do it.
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: Try. Esprit d'escaler. I mean, spirit of the staircase, because
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: you thought about it while you were leaving.
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: I like the jerk store called that. I like that
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: callback better.
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: Can somebody check how you pronounce? I think it's Esprit d'Escalé,
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: but I don't know how to do French.
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: Jerk store called, Tim Ryan.
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: I don't have Rosetta Stone like the rest of these candidates.
• 29:54
  Speaker 2: That wasn't his strongest moment.
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: All right, so which candidates were most impressive first night?
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: Who helped themselves the most?
• 30:02
  Speaker 3: Castro helped himself the most.
• 30:03
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 30:04
  Speaker 3: Castro has been, has not gotten a lot of attention
• 30:07
  Speaker 3: in this race. He barely made the first debate. He
• 30:10
  Speaker 3: is someone who has been seen as a rising star
• 30:14
  Speaker 3: in this party for eight years now since he gave
• 30:17
  Speaker 3: the keynote at Obama's convention 2012.
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: Got a long rise.
• 30:20
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: I don't think I would have gotten even close. Esprit
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: de l'escalier. Thank you for that.
• 30:30
  Speaker 4: This is an absurd thing to say, and I know,
• 30:32
  Speaker 4: but Bill de Blasio did himself some favors on night one, right?
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: So I had this problem watching Bill de Blasio because
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: I thought he was delivering a very strong progressive message,
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: but everything he says so annoys me.
• 30:46
  Speaker 4: He says it in an annoying way, but he also
• 30:49
  Speaker 4: landed some punches and was mixing it up.
• 30:52
  Speaker 3: And then you came in with no preconceptions about Bill
• 30:54
  Speaker 3: de Blasio. You didn't know where he went to the
• 30:56
  Speaker 3: gym and when. Yeah. Then you would probably think this guy,
• 31:00
  Speaker 3: you know, that's a very appropriate.
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: I like what he's saying.
• 31:03
  Speaker 3: Oh, and he did these things. He gave people universal pre-K.
• 31:06
  Speaker 3: He did minimum wage. That's impressive. None of these other
• 31:08
  Speaker 3: people have done any of those things.
• 31:09
  Speaker 6: Yep.
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: There was a moment where I think Beto O'Rourke, you
• 31:11
  Speaker 2: could see in his eyes, like, how the fuck am
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: I on this stage arguing with Bill de Blasio? How
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: is that where this ended up?
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: Over the War Powers Act, Bill de Blasio took a
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: swing at Beto O'Rourke.
• 31:21
  Speaker 4: That was very out of nowhere. I thought Klobuchar was
• 31:24
  Speaker 4: pretty good. I thought Jay Inslee was good. I think
• 31:26
  Speaker 4: I might have been the only one who was an
• 31:27
  Speaker 4: Inslee stan.
• 31:28
  Speaker 2: No, he was good. I think he was fine.
• 31:29
  Speaker 3: But it's like, who advanced their campaign? Warren came in.
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: We haven't talked about Elizabeth Warren.
• 31:35
  Speaker 3: Elizabeth Warren.
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: Who won the debate. I think we all agree.
• 31:37
  Speaker 3: She had a great debate.
• 31:38
  Speaker 2: Winners and losers, huh, John?
• 31:39
  Speaker 3: It was interesting that no one challenged her.
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: Great.
• 31:41
  Speaker 3: Not once.
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: Not even once.
• 31:42
  Speaker 3: No one even dared to come after her.
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: They're scared.
• 31:45
  Speaker 3: So she came in the leader. She left the leader.
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: And she stayed out of every fight. Yeah.
• 31:50
  Speaker 3: I mean, it could not have gone better for her.
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: She did not challenge anyone. She basically pretended they mostly
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: weren't there. Yeah. And just talked about her plans and
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: her message.
• 31:59
  Speaker 4: It was odd, though, that she was so front and
• 32:01
  Speaker 4: center in the debate in the first half or three
• 32:04
  Speaker 4: quarters and the moderator sort of forgot about her and
• 32:06
  Speaker 4: she didn't really make an effort to jump in because
• 32:08
  Speaker 4: she was probably thinking, let these guys go at it.
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: I agree.
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: I'm going to sit you out. There was one moment
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: where they went to Delaney and it was clear, like,
• 32:15
  Speaker 2: I couldn't believe they were going to John Delaney again. Yeah,
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: there was, you know, we talked a lot about, you know,
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: Dan has talked about debates as being... not the best
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: way to pick a president and have nothing to do
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: with the job. And you made some sort of sports
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: metaphor that I don't remember or understand, but the, the, the,
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: that it's like dribbling versus dunking. Don't worry about it. Yeah. Uh,
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: but there is something you learn from the debate, which
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: is one of these people over two nights is going
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: to debate Donald Trump. And I, I was watching for that,
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: that like, like who can captivate the state, hold the
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: stage who can, who can, who does well on television,
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: which is a different skill than, than being in a
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: campaign and, and, and doing a rally. And, When Elizabeth
• 32:53
  Speaker 2: Warren spoke, people went quiet. They paid attention. She was
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: a leader on that stage. She could hold the room.
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: She was big. We all can't stand Donald Trump. We
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: all hate Donald Trump, which makes it hard sometimes to
• 33:06
  Speaker 2: see what his skills are. But one of his skills
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: are he is big. He is a larger-than-life figure, and
• 33:10
  Speaker 2: he has captivated our country for years. He has taken
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: our attention for years. He is a big figure and
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: big presence in our lives and in our minds. And
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: so whoever has to stand up against him is going
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: to have to be able to fill that stage. And
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: so I think she really did pass that test really well.
• 33:25
  Speaker 3: There's a second test, I think, that we did not
• 33:27
  Speaker 3: get to see from Elizabeth Warren that I think she
• 33:28
  Speaker 3: probably will pass too. But because she was not, no
• 33:31
  Speaker 3: one attacked her. She didn't attack anyone else. You don't,
• 33:34
  Speaker 3: we don't yet know what, we don't have a, we
• 33:36
  Speaker 3: don't have evidence of how she will do when she
• 33:38
  Speaker 3: actually has to battle Trump.
• 33:39
  Speaker 2: Totally agree.
• 33:40
  Speaker 3: Like I have great confidence she'll be able to do it.
• 33:41
  Speaker 3: And she's going to have to fight people in other debates.
• 33:43
  Speaker 3: It's just this debate, she came in the leader. It's
• 33:46
  Speaker 3: telling that no one had the courage to go after her.
• 33:48
  Speaker 3: She left the leader. And I, I just want to
• 33:50
  Speaker 3: go back to Castro for one sec. I think he is,
• 33:52
  Speaker 3: I don't want to say like winner, loser, or stupid,
• 33:54
  Speaker 3: but he was in danger of not making the third debate,
• 33:57
  Speaker 3: of sort of not being paid attention. He's done a
• 33:59
  Speaker 3: lot of work identifying himself as the true progressive on
• 34:04
  Speaker 3: civil rights and social issues in this campaign, coming out
• 34:06
  Speaker 3: with an immigration plan, a policing plan. And he had
• 34:09
  Speaker 3: to take this moment, and he succeeded, and now he's
• 34:12
  Speaker 3: in the game. There's a chance he'd be there with
• 34:15
  Speaker 3: the Swalwells and the Delanys and the Hickenloopers. And now
• 34:18
  Speaker 3: he's on people's minds. So he's giving himself a shot
• 34:21
  Speaker 3: to be in the mix going forward. And that's a
• 34:23
  Speaker 3: big deal.
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: Do we think, what do we think happens with Booker
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: from here? Because, you know, his campaign did say they
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: had like the best single day of fundraising ever after
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: the debate. Lovett said you weren't as impressed. I thought
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: he had a couple really strong moments. I think, look,
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: Cory Booker has a message about, you know.
• 34:43
  Speaker 3: What is it? It's serious.
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah. It's sort of about like healing the divides in
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: our country.
• 34:47
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: And it's not just a very simple. I'm going to
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: sit down with Mitch McConnell, bring people together. But that like,
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: you know, we can't be as hateful as Donald Trump
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: if we're going to lead this country forward.
• 35:00
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: And he also has a story to tell about what
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: he's done as mayor in Newark, what he's done as senator.
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: you know, he just had this big bipartisan accomplishment with
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: the first step act in this, with this white house
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: that he can talk about that happens to be about
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: criminal justice reform, which he talked about. So he has something. I,
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: I was, I was a little surprised, love it too,
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: that so many people thought he had the greatest night.
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: Cause I thought he had a few strong moments, but
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: I also think maybe I'm holding him to a very
• 35:24
  Speaker 2: high standard because I really like his message. I really
• 35:28
  Speaker 2: like like his closing. That was when I got very,
• 35:30
  Speaker 2: I actually didn't get frustrated with Cory Booker and fairness
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: to him until the end when I saw his closing statement,
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: because I, whenever he delivers that larger message, which I
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: think ultimately is a smarter, more sophisticated, interesting message about
• 35:43
  Speaker 2: love versus Marianne Williamson, honestly, and I actually- Better than Williamson. No,
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: but I do think it's important. But he never, to me,
• 35:50
  Speaker 2: I keep waiting for it to manifest in his actual
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: discussion of policy. And then in his healthcare answers, in
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: his rhetoric, it's very laden with words and phrases But
• 36:04
  Speaker 2: I never feel like I'm hearing something interesting or different
• 36:07
  Speaker 2: in terms of what his message around healing actually would
• 36:10
  Speaker 2: mean in terms of his presidency that distinguishes him from
• 36:13
  Speaker 2: some of the other Democrats. And so I'm constantly looking
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: for that. And I constantly feel disappointed because I have
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: such high hopes for him.
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: Who do you think hurt themselves?
• 36:23
  Speaker 2: I mean, Beto O'Rourke definitely did. Yeah. Yeah.
• 36:26
  Speaker 3: I think to be honest, like it's opportunity for you.
• 36:29
  Speaker 3: There are two groups of people. There are people who
• 36:30
  Speaker 3: have a line of sight on qualifying for the third debate.
• 36:33
  Speaker 3: So just to explain that. To get to the third debate,
• 36:35
  Speaker 3: they raised the polling threshold and they raised the online
• 36:37
  Speaker 3: donor threshold to 130,000 donors. Most of the candidates on
• 36:42
  Speaker 3: both stage, both nights, barely got into the first two debates, barely.
• 36:48
  Speaker 3: It is really hard to get to the third debate.
• 36:50
  Speaker 3: The candidate, Beto was on the list of candidates who
• 36:53
  Speaker 3: most likely is going to get to the third debate.
• 36:55
  Speaker 3: So the candidates who are going to get to the
• 36:56
  Speaker 3: third debate, they hurt themselves probably short-term in fundraising, maybe
• 37:00
  Speaker 3: a little bit in support but it's mostly an opportunity cost.
• 37:03
  Speaker 3: They had a chance in front of the entire nation
• 37:05
  Speaker 3: to define themselves.
• 37:06
  Speaker 2: They didn't do it.
• 37:07
  Speaker 3: The candidates who have no line of sight to the
• 37:09
  Speaker 3: third debate, who did not do anything to move themselves there,
• 37:11
  Speaker 3: then they hurt themselves because now they only got one
• 37:14
  Speaker 3: more shot to do it. Because if you don't make
• 37:16
  Speaker 3: the third debate, your campaign is for all intents and
• 37:17
  Speaker 3: purposes over.
• 37:18
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: And I think Beto O'Rourke has to do an incredible
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: amount of work to fix that first debate's performance before
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: the second debate performance. And I don't think it's like
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: I actually don't think his biggest problem was Castro got
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: the better of him on that one exchange. Because to me,
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: when Savannah kicked it off with, are you in favor
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: of a 70% tax rate on people making $ 10 million
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: or more? And he couldn't answer the question. He dodged
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: it in two languages. It's just like, you can't do that.
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: And look, we all love Beto. We got to know
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: him during the documentary and stuff like that. And I
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: do think You know, the Twitter explanation that, like, oh,
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: it was all about Ted Cruz and no one really
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: liked him is bullshit. Like, we've seen it up close.
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: People love that guy in Texas. They show up for him.
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: But that Beto that was in the Texas Senate race
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: who was authentic, who talks about progressive issues in a
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: red state, who does that stuff, like, we haven't seen
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: him on this campaign.
• 38:16
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: That's the thing. We just haven't seen it yet.
• 38:17
  Speaker 2: Think about the Beto O'Rourke. kneeling answer, right?
• 38:21
  Speaker 3: It was a direct question.
• 38:22
  Speaker 4: And I think the first word out of his, like,
• 38:25
  Speaker 4: are you offended by people kneeling? And the first word
• 38:28
  Speaker 4: out of his mouth was no. Let me explain to
• 38:30
  Speaker 4: you why. What we were missing last night from him
• 38:33
  Speaker 4: was direct answers that sound like conversational English. Do not
• 38:37
  Speaker 4: start your response about a painting that is hung on
• 38:39
  Speaker 4: a wall somewhere. That sounds canned. It's a shitty anecdote
• 38:43
  Speaker 4: to begin with. It's not reaching anybody. What people liked
• 38:46
  Speaker 4: about him He's a smart, thoughtful guy that speaks to
• 38:49
  Speaker 4: them like a human being that seems closer to our
• 38:52
  Speaker 4: age than most of the other people on stage, which
• 38:54
  Speaker 4: is why he could use social media better and communicate
• 38:56
  Speaker 4: with young people.
• 38:58
  Speaker 2: Bring back that individual. You've got to get up there
• 39:00
  Speaker 2: and say, fuck it. Yeah.
• 39:02
  Speaker 3: Step back.
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: And especially at this point.
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: Talk about the artifice of this process.
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: You've got nothing to lose anymore, man.
• 39:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: You know, you just go up there and just fucking
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: let it rip for the next one.
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: The worst thing he could do is continue doing what
• 39:11
  Speaker 2: he's doing. Yeah.
• 39:13
  Speaker 3: All right.
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: Second debate. The big night last night. This was, just
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: in case anyone forgets, Marianne Williamson, John Hickenlooper, Andrew Yang,
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: Pete Buttigieg, Joe Biden, Bernie Sanders, Kamala Harris, Kirsten Gillibrand,
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: Michael Bennett, and Eric Swalwell. First, before we get into anything. else,
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: what do we think overall about night two compared to
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: night one? Before we get into any of the specifics,
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: just overall thoughts. I mean, I thought that was, this
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: is the real night, you know?
• 39:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, it was just, you know, there was
• 39:42
  Speaker 2: debate and argument and surprising moments. I mean, this was...
• 39:47
  Speaker 2: There were many moments where I was just I was
• 39:49
  Speaker 2: sitting at the improv eating spinach and art show tip
• 39:52
  Speaker 2: with just just a gog.
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: I will say that I've gone back and forth on
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: this since the debate lineups were announced about whether Elizabeth
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: Warren got lucky to be on her own night or
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: got a raw deal because she wasn't in the second night. Now,
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: looking back at both nights, she got screwed by not
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: being in the second.
• 40:10
  Speaker 3: I don't agree.
• 40:11
  Speaker 4: I think Kamala took out Biden for her and she's
• 40:13
  Speaker 4: still sitting in a great place.
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: I think she probably... But now the story is Kamala
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: Harris and Joe Biden and Elizabeth Warren is not in
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: the headlines. Yeah, but that's... Like she might have been
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: if she was in the debate.
• 40:26
  Speaker 3: I mean, the thing is, I think that... Yes, that
• 40:29
  Speaker 3: is true.
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: Like, I think Elizabeth Warren, if you were at her headquarters,
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: is probably not happy with last night because... I don't know.
• 40:36
  Speaker 3: I don't know. We have a gazillion debates to go.
• 40:40
  Speaker 2: That's true. Right.
• 40:41
  Speaker 3: Elizabeth Warren had a good debate. I'm sure she raised
• 40:43
  Speaker 3: money coming out of it. She got support coming out
• 40:45
  Speaker 3: of it.
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: For sure.
• 40:46
  Speaker 3: She delivered her message. She didn't have to fight with anyone.
• 40:48
  Speaker 3: She just got to do her thing. And she's doing fine.
• 40:52
  Speaker 3: She feels good about where she is. She's coming in
• 40:53
  Speaker 3: at least as strong. She's leaving just at least as
• 40:55
  Speaker 3: strong as she came in. And that's fine.
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: And so- I don't think it was bad. I just
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: think if you had to pick and you were her,
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: you'd probably pick this.
• 41:02
  Speaker 3: I think you'd rather star one night than be second
• 41:04
  Speaker 3: doing the second.
• 41:05
  Speaker 2: I agree with that. I don't think it's clear what
• 41:07
  Speaker 2: would have... Oh, it's an alternative universe. I don't think
• 41:09
  Speaker 2: anyone should feel... I don't know why anybody would be
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: unhappy to have not been on that stage with Kamala
• 41:15
  Speaker 2: because there was a clear moment for one candidate. Now,
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: we don't know what it would have looked like if
• 41:20
  Speaker 2: Warren had also been there, but watching that second debate,
• 41:24
  Speaker 2: you know, Gillibrand had some good answers, but everybody looked
• 41:30
  Speaker 2: like they were in black and white compared to what
• 41:31
  Speaker 2: Kamala was doing up there.
• 41:33
  Speaker 4: Let me make the argument for the status quo for Warren,
• 41:35
  Speaker 4: which is that you want Biden to be attacked and
• 41:39
  Speaker 4: you want his support to wane away, but you don't
• 41:43
  Speaker 4: want to be the one attacking because in Iowa in particular,
• 41:45
  Speaker 4: you want those Biden voters to like you. And as
• 41:48
  Speaker 4: much as Kamala looked like a president and was commanding,
• 41:52
  Speaker 4: and you could see her going toe to toe with
• 41:53
  Speaker 4: Donald Trump, if you're a Biden stan, that probably pissed
• 41:56
  Speaker 4: you off.
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: That's a good point. That's a good point.
• 41:57
  Speaker 2: And that's a meaningful thing over time.
• 41:59
  Speaker 3: The other thing that I think would probably... If Elizabeth
• 42:01
  Speaker 3: Warren is disappointed about anything, what would be most helpful
• 42:03
  Speaker 3: for her would be for Biden or Kamala or Pete
• 42:06
  Speaker 3: to have taken down Bernie. Bernie also left that debate unscathed.
• 42:10
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 42:10
  Speaker 3: And they are each other's greatest obstacle to the nomination.
• 42:13
  Speaker 3: And eventually, they're going to have to battle for those voters.
• 42:16
  Speaker 3: But the ideal situation for either one of them is
• 42:18
  Speaker 3: someone else to take down.
• 42:20
  Speaker 2: The other one.
• 42:20
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 42:21
  Speaker 3: And that didn't happen.
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: So... They went through another healthcare debate at the top,
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: which we just talked about. The other big healthcare question
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: they were all asked at the second night was, raise
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: your hands if your healthcare plan would cover undocumented immigrants.
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: Every candidate raised their hand. Although Biden was sort of
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: like half up, didn't know quite sure.
• 42:39
  Speaker 2: A lot of one figure hand raising. It was very much,
• 42:42
  Speaker 2: I don't know if it was a plan. I don't
• 42:44
  Speaker 2: know what was going on, but it seemed to me
• 42:45
  Speaker 2: his way to avoid raising his hands was to act
• 42:47
  Speaker 2: as if I need to ask something about the thing
• 42:50
  Speaker 2: you're asking so that I could say it was, I
• 42:52
  Speaker 2: couldn't tell if it was smart or stupid. I think
• 42:54
  Speaker 2: it's smart.
• 42:55
  Speaker 4: I bet a bunch of really smart people who advise
• 42:57
  Speaker 4: them on debates for a living, like Ron Klain, were like,
• 42:58
  Speaker 4: when you raise your hand, you look like a child.
• 43:00
  Speaker 4: And if you looked around that stage, there were times
• 43:02
  Speaker 4: where there were some like dorky hand up, like teacher, teacher,
• 43:05
  Speaker 4: call on me looks.
• 43:06
  Speaker 2: That you probably weren't what you wanted.
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: So you wanted a little more subtle hand raise?
• 43:09
  Speaker 2: Dan's like, what the fuck are you talking about?
• 43:10
  Speaker 3: No, I agree with you.
• 43:12
  Speaker 2: But was Biden raising his hand or was he trying
• 43:14
  Speaker 2: to interject? No, he's raising his hand. This is raising
• 43:16
  Speaker 2: your hand? Yeah, I think he's raising his hand. Okay, okay.
• 43:18
  Speaker 2: Was there like a rule book? What do you got?
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: Well, I thought- If you don't get it six inches
• 43:22
  Speaker 1: off the podium, it's not a hand raise.
• 43:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Lovett is right
• 43:29
  Speaker 2: that his hand raising and his I'd like to interject
• 43:31
  Speaker 2: here is the same hand motion.
• 43:33
  Speaker 1: Thank you, Dan. Okay, let's get to the actual substance.
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: More hand-raising! So they all just said, sure, healthcare for
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: undocumented immigrants. Was anyone surprised at this?
• 43:42
  Speaker 2: A little bit.
• 43:43
  Speaker 1: I was very surprised that there wasn't one on that stage,
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: including the people who were screaming about socialism five minutes earlier.
• 43:50
  Speaker 4: I think there's a good argument to be made, which
• 43:52
  Speaker 4: is that... People are going to go to the emergency
• 43:54
  Speaker 4: room if they're really sick, so we're going to pay
• 43:56
  Speaker 4: for this no matter what.
• 43:57
  Speaker 2: No one made that argument! No one defended it at all.
• 44:00
  Speaker 2: They all just wanted to avoid the attack from the
• 44:02
  Speaker 2: left without defending the position.
• 44:03
  Speaker 1: It was funny watching Pete. Pete looked like he was
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: going to go there. He was like, you don't want people, anyone,
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: running around uninsured. And then he goes, it's inhumane. Which,
• 44:13
  Speaker 1: of course it's inhumane. Those of us at this table
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: are in agreement on this, for sure. But I haven't
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: seen any polling on this lately, but I know that
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: when we pass the Affordable Care Act... Um, one of
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: the things that, uh, Barack Obama had to say specifically
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: during his joint address to Congress in order to get
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: Democrats on board was that this is not a plan
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: that gives free healthcare to undocumented immigrants.
• 44:35
  Speaker 2: You lie. A member of Congress yelling at the president
• 44:39
  Speaker 2: during the state of the union or the joint address, uh, again,
• 44:43
  Speaker 2: maybe a harbinger of the collapse of our society, because
• 44:46
  Speaker 2: Republicans are like, we like that now, yelling at a
• 44:48
  Speaker 2: black man is good, was about this question. Yeah, it
• 44:52
  Speaker 2: was about this question. It was accusing Barack Obama of
• 44:55
  Speaker 2: lying on this very issue.
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and look, Tommy is exactly right. There is a
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: good argument to be made to people in this country
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: and say, we can insure everyone in this country now,
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: whether they are documented or not documented. if they go
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: to the hospital, they go to the emergency room, you're
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: going to end up paying more in taxes because we're
• 45:12
  Speaker 1: going to care for people in this country who get hurt,
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: who get sick one way or the other. We might
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: as well insure them so there's preventive care and we're
• 45:18
  Speaker 1: not paying for it on the back end. There's a
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: way to make that argument.
• 45:20
  Speaker 3: Do you think there's any political challenges with, in the
• 45:25
  Speaker 3: same night, decriminalizing the border and then offering free health
• 45:27
  Speaker 3: care to the people who cross the now legal border?
• 45:30
  Speaker 2: I do, Dan.
• 45:30
  Speaker 3: I mean, I hate to.
• 45:32
  Speaker 2: Neoliberal shill. Yeah, no, I know. Neoliberal shill. Neoliberal shill.
• 45:36
  Speaker 2: Tommy's good.
• 45:36
  Speaker 3: Well, like, I believe that.
• 45:39
  Speaker 1: Now he's got all the fucking... Lovett has the same position,
• 45:42
  Speaker 1: everyone out there.
• 45:43
  Speaker 2: He was screaming about it before we started. Can I
• 45:45
  Speaker 2: just get in here? Can I just get in here
• 45:47
  Speaker 2: to say that?
• 45:47
  Speaker 1: Screaming about it before we started.
• 45:48
  Speaker 2: I was at a little museum called The Louvre, and
• 45:51
  Speaker 2: there was a painting there of a woman. And as
• 45:54
  Speaker 2: the only gay man on this stage who cares for
• 45:57
  Speaker 2: a golden doodle, let me just say.
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: I get it.
• 46:01
  Speaker 2: I got it.
• 46:02
  Speaker 3: Great job, Delaney.
• 46:03
  Speaker 2: Got out of answering. It worked.
• 46:05
  Speaker 3: There are two parts about this. One is, both on
• 46:08
  Speaker 3: the question of healthcare for undocumented people, you're right, no
• 46:13
  Speaker 3: one made the case for why it's good for everyone
• 46:16
  Speaker 3: to do that. And that has become largely true of
• 46:19
  Speaker 3: immigration in this campaign, is that we have stopped making
• 46:23
  Speaker 3: the case for why immigration is good for everyone in
• 46:25
  Speaker 3: the country, why it's good for the economy, why it
• 46:28
  Speaker 3: is good for security, everything else. White Conference Immigration Forum
• 46:31
  Speaker 3: is right. The second thing is, even if it is
• 46:33
  Speaker 3: good policy, you have to be fully eyes wide open
• 46:37
  Speaker 3: about the political challenges of adopting that good policy. And
• 46:41
  Speaker 3: Trump tweeted about this like six seconds after it happened,
• 46:43
  Speaker 3: which is amazing because he's in Japan.
• 46:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he was ready.
• 46:47
  Speaker 3: And we have to know that right now, the Trump campaign,
• 46:51
  Speaker 3: the Koch-funded super PACs are gearing up and they are
• 46:54
  Speaker 3: now going to spend every day from now until we
• 46:57
  Speaker 3: have a nominee, drilling the idea that Democrats want to
• 47:00
  Speaker 3: spend your taxpayer dollars on health care for undocumented people,
• 47:04
  Speaker 3: which they will do in the most racist, disgusting ways
• 47:07
  Speaker 3: that they are going to do that.
• 47:08
  Speaker 1: Which, honestly, politically may be our only saving grace because
• 47:12
  Speaker 1: they will overdo it and end up lying about something.
• 47:14
  Speaker 3: It's important to remember that what Trump says about this
• 47:17
  Speaker 3: will probably be counterproductive because he will do it in
• 47:19
  Speaker 3: a stupid, confusing, racist way. But the way the Trump
• 47:24
  Speaker 3: campaign will do it and the way the Republican super
• 47:26
  Speaker 3: PACs will do it will be very smart and will
• 47:28
  Speaker 3: be targeted and it's going to be fucking relentless.
• 47:31
  Speaker 4: For the next year. And the media refs in this
• 47:34
  Speaker 4: instance will say, actually, these super PACs are right. Actually,
• 47:37
  Speaker 4: the Trump campaign is right. We will not have the
• 47:38
  Speaker 4: fact checkers on our side.
• 47:40
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 47:40
  Speaker 1: And when you yell at the New York Times for
• 47:41
  Speaker 1: doing that on Twitter, it won't change anything.
• 47:44
  Speaker 3: So we have to do something between now and then, right?
• 47:46
  Speaker 3: Like the candidates have to make the case on the
• 47:48
  Speaker 3: stump for why they took this position and why it
• 47:50
  Speaker 3: is the right thing. And to the extent that some
• 47:54
  Speaker 3: sort of larger progressive apparatus is out there, it's going
• 47:57
  Speaker 3: to have to be fighting back up until the moment
• 47:59
  Speaker 3: we have a nominee, which could be on the third
• 48:01
  Speaker 3: fucking night of the convention, the way things are going.
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: Drop that in there in case anyone just shuddered.
• 48:08
  Speaker 2: Anybody not have a stomachache? Happy Friday. Hope you enjoyed
• 48:11
  Speaker 2: the 4th of July. Maybe the last one.
• 48:13
  Speaker 3: Enjoy the Trump speech.
• 48:19
  Speaker 2: No, I agree.
• 48:20
  Speaker 1: We dealt with this in 2008, the famous debate where
• 48:22
  Speaker 1: Hillary Clinton first stumbled was over New York State providing
• 48:29
  Speaker 1: driver's licenses or ID cards to undocumented immigrants, driver's licenses.
• 48:34
  Speaker 1: And the political belief there was like, They're undocumented, and
• 48:38
  Speaker 1: you're going to give people driver's licenses now? Like, what's
• 48:40
  Speaker 1: going on?
• 48:41
  Speaker 2: She's like, yes, I am. No, I'm not.
• 48:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, she went back and forth. Barack Obama came down on, yes,
• 48:45
  Speaker 1: it does make sense to give them driver's licenses, and
• 48:48
  Speaker 1: it's a public safety issue, and here's why. And he explained,
• 48:51
  Speaker 1: he didn't do it like every stump speech, but he
• 48:54
  Speaker 1: explained in interviews and on the stump over and over
• 48:56
  Speaker 1: why it was a public safety issue, why it's important
• 48:59
  Speaker 1: to do that, even though it may not be politically popular.
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: And it was okay. He was okay.
• 49:02
  Speaker 2: I will say, though, that is a different moment in
• 49:05
  Speaker 2: Republican politics in which... the consensus view of Republicans was
• 49:09
  Speaker 2: for comprehensive immigration reform, which allowed– True. This issue has
• 49:14
  Speaker 2: evolved very quickly. The Republicans have moved to a nativist right,
• 49:20
  Speaker 2: while Democrats have moved to the left, which is just
• 49:23
  Speaker 2: a different... It's a different debate than the debate we're
• 49:25
  Speaker 2: having during that time.
• 49:26
  Speaker 1: All right, so... Another moment, Mayor Pete was asked about
• 49:37
  Speaker 1: the controversy over the killing of a black South Bend
• 49:39
  Speaker 1: resident by a white police officer. I think we have
• 49:41
  Speaker 1: that clip.
• 49:42
  Speaker 2: The police force in South Bend is now 6% black
• 49:46
  Speaker 2: in a city that is 26% black.
• 49:49
  Speaker 5: Why has that not improved over your two terms as mayor?
• 49:53
  Speaker 5: Because I couldn't get it done. My community is in
• 49:55
  Speaker 5: anguish right now because of an officer-involved shooting, a black man,
• 50:00
  Speaker 5: Eric Logan, killed by a white officer. And I'm not
• 50:03
  Speaker 5: allowed to take sides until the investigation comes back. The
• 50:06
  Speaker 5: officer said he was attacked with a knife, but he
• 50:08
  Speaker 5: didn't have his body camera on.
• 50:10
  Speaker 3: It's a mess, and we're hurting.
• 50:13
  Speaker 5: And I could walk you through all of the things
• 50:15
  Speaker 5: that we have done as a community, all of the
• 50:17
  Speaker 5: steps that we took from bias training to de-escalation, but
• 50:23
  Speaker 5: it didn't save the life of Eric Logan. And when
• 50:26
  Speaker 5: I look into his mother's eyes, I have to face
• 50:29
  Speaker 5: the fact that nothing that I say will bring him back.
• 50:33
  Speaker 5: This is an issue that is facing our community and
• 50:36
  Speaker 5: so many communities around the country. And until we move
• 50:40
  Speaker 5: policing out from the shadow of systemic racism, whatever this
• 50:44
  Speaker 5: particular incident teaches us, we will be left with the
• 50:46
  Speaker 5: bigger problem of the fact that there's a wall of
• 50:49
  Speaker 5: mistrust put up one racist act at a time, not
• 50:52
  Speaker 5: just from what's happened in the past, but from what's
• 50:54
  Speaker 5: happening around the country in the present. It threatens the
• 50:57
  Speaker 5: well-being of every community. And I am determined to bring
• 51:01
  Speaker 5: about a day When a white person driving a vehicle
• 51:04
  Speaker 5: and a black person driving a vehicle, when they see
• 51:07
  Speaker 5: a police officer approaching, feels the exact same thing. A
• 51:10
  Speaker 5: feeling not of fear, but of safety. I'm determined to
• 51:13
  Speaker 5: bring that day about.
• 51:14
  Speaker 3: Thank you, Mr.
• 51:15
  Speaker 2: Mayor.
• 51:16
  Speaker 1: How do you guys think Pete handled that situation?
• 51:19
  Speaker 3: I think he did it very well. Political consultants will say,
• 51:22
  Speaker 3: don't admit a mistake. Don't explain what you did wrong.
• 51:25
  Speaker 3: Don't repeat the attack, essentially. Pete did both of those things,
• 51:28
  Speaker 3: and that was the exact right thing to do.
• 51:30
  Speaker 5: It was.
• 51:31
  Speaker 3: Honest. It felt like a very raw moment.
• 51:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it did.
• 51:35
  Speaker 3: I think he handled that very well.
• 51:38
  Speaker 4: I think that it came off as earnest and sincere.
• 51:41
  Speaker 4: And I love politicians who will admit mistakes or say sorry,
• 51:45
  Speaker 4: especially because as Dan described, the conventional wisdom is that
• 51:47
  Speaker 4: you never do those things because it shows weakness and yada.
• 51:49
  Speaker 2: Yada, yada.
• 51:51
  Speaker 4: But I also suspect that there will be many people
• 51:54
  Speaker 4: who heard that answer and felt it was insufficient. And
• 51:58
  Speaker 4: it just showed that maybe you're out of your depth
• 52:01
  Speaker 4: on this problem because it's a problem that's been around
• 52:04
  Speaker 4: for a very long time and you're conceding you haven't
• 52:06
  Speaker 4: solved it. And there maybe hasn't been the sense of
• 52:08
  Speaker 4: urgency that folks in South Bend wanted five years ago.
• 52:12
  Speaker 4: And so I don't know that he's out of the
• 52:14
  Speaker 4: woods yet with the community of people who care deeply
• 52:18
  Speaker 4: about policing and social injustice and et cetera.
• 52:21
  Speaker 1: Well, two people who weren't satisfied with the answer were
• 52:24
  Speaker 1: John Hickenlooper and Eric Swalwell. So didn't see this coming,
• 52:27
  Speaker 1: but what we didn't hear was John Hickenlooper after this says, well,
• 52:32
  Speaker 1: in Denver many years ago, we put all these procedures
• 52:36
  Speaker 1: in place and I'm wondering, and they've worked in Denver
• 52:39
  Speaker 1: and I'm wondering why they haven't been replicated all across
• 52:41
  Speaker 1: the country. And then Eric Swalwell said, why didn't you
• 52:43
  Speaker 1: fire the police chief? And you know, Pete, directly can't
• 52:47
  Speaker 1: fire the police chief but he can appoint members and
• 52:50
  Speaker 1: fire members of the public safety board who then can
• 52:53
  Speaker 1: fire police chiefs and police officers as well and so
• 52:57
  Speaker 1: I agree that like I think I think he nailed
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: that answer in the moment and it is absolutely refreshing
• 53:03
  Speaker 1: to hear a politician just say like I screwed up
• 53:05
  Speaker 1: I couldn't do it like and that gets him a
• 53:07
  Speaker 1: lot of points but I think coming attractions like there's
• 53:12
  Speaker 1: a lot of other candidates who are ready to pounce
• 53:14
  Speaker 1: on this one.
• 53:15
  Speaker 3: If I was Pete campaign, I would be praying to
• 53:18
  Speaker 3: God that when they do the drawing for the next debate,
• 53:21
  Speaker 3: Julian Castro is not on stage with me. Julian Castro
• 53:24
  Speaker 3: has put out the most progressive, most aggressive plan on
• 53:27
  Speaker 3: policing reform of anyone in this field. And this is
• 53:31
  Speaker 3: a glaring vulnerability for Pete. I think he handled the
• 53:34
  Speaker 3: question exactly right. I think he is earnest about his
• 53:37
  Speaker 3: desire to do better and honest about the emotion in
• 53:40
  Speaker 3: his community. But when you are the mayor of South Bend, Indiana,
• 53:44
  Speaker 3: and you want to be the president of the United States,
• 53:47
  Speaker 3: your record as the mayor of a smaller.
• 53:50
  Speaker 1: City in Indiana has got.
• 53:51
  Speaker 3: To be fucking A +. And if you have a
• 53:54
  Speaker 3: glaring problem on an issue that is incredibly important to
• 53:58
  Speaker 3: the Democratic Party and the most important constituency of the
• 54:00
  Speaker 3: Democratic Party, that is a tremendous challenge that he is
• 54:03
  Speaker 3: going to have to navigate throughout this campaign.
• 54:05
  Speaker 4: On top of a glaring problem with reaching African-American voters
• 54:08
  Speaker 4: to begin with.
• 54:09
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 54:09
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 54:10
  Speaker 1: So at the end of that exchange, I believe, Swalwell's
• 54:14
  Speaker 1: yelling at him, Pete looks like he's going to just
• 54:16
  Speaker 1: lunge at Swalwell.
• 54:18
  Speaker 2: And I would just want to point out that when
• 54:22
  Speaker 2: Mayor Pete looked at Eric Swalwell with that expression, it
• 54:26
  Speaker 2: was actually a moment where I thought, I can see
• 54:28
  Speaker 2: that person in command of a country. Because that was
• 54:32
  Speaker 2: the most intense expression I've ever seen on a face.
• 54:35
  Speaker 2: Mayor Pete wanted to look like he wanted to rip
• 54:38
  Speaker 2: Eric Swalwell's head from his body. And then, I don't know.
• 54:47
  Speaker 2: And then just sort of be done because he killed him.
• 54:53
  Speaker 1: And then just to choreograph this crazy exactly, as Swalwell's
• 54:58
  Speaker 1: yelling at him, Marianne Williamson pops up out of nowhere
• 55:02
  Speaker 1: at Tiger Race and then.
• 55:03
  Speaker 2: Well, that's just because she had stopped. Your unicorn was
• 55:07
  Speaker 2: thirsty on their way. So the unicorn had stopped at
• 55:12
  Speaker 2: the River Styx for a drink. And then finally it
• 55:15
  Speaker 2: reached the debate stage.
• 55:17
  Speaker 1: And finally, Kamala Harris stands up and says, as the
• 55:22
  Speaker 1: only black person on this stage, I would like to
• 55:24
  Speaker 1: speak about race. And then we have the moment of
• 55:27
  Speaker 1: both nights. Basically, she starts by saying, you know, Vice
• 55:31
  Speaker 1: President Biden, I'm directing this to you. I do not
• 55:33
  Speaker 1: believe you are a racist. I praise the fact that
• 55:37
  Speaker 1: you want to find common ground with people. And yet
• 55:40
  Speaker 1: it really hurt when you talked about the reputation of
• 55:42
  Speaker 1: the segregationist senators. And not only that, but opposed busing
• 55:46
  Speaker 1: because I and then she has this thing, which is
• 55:49
  Speaker 1: there was a little girl in California who was part
• 55:50
  Speaker 1: of the second class to integrate her public schools. And
• 55:52
  Speaker 1: she was bused to school every day. And that little
• 55:54
  Speaker 1: girl was me. And then that moment, you're just like, oh, wow.
• 56:01
  Speaker 8: But Vice President Biden, do you agree today?
• 56:03
  Speaker 2: Do you agree today?
• 56:07
  Speaker 8: That you were wrong to oppose busing in America then.
• 56:11
  Speaker 2: Do you agree?
• 56:11
  Speaker 9: I did not oppose busing in America. What I opposed
• 56:15
  Speaker 9: is busing ordered by the Department of Education. That's what
• 56:18
  Speaker 9: I opposed.
• 56:19
  Speaker 8: Well, there was a failure of states to integrate public
• 56:23
  Speaker 8: schools in America. I was part of the second class
• 56:26
  Speaker 8: to integrate Berkeley, California public schools almost two decades after
• 56:30
  Speaker 8: Brown v. Board of Education.
• 56:32
  Speaker 9: Because your city council made that decision.
• 56:35
  Speaker 2: It was a local decision.
• 56:35
  Speaker 8: So that's where the federal government must step in. That's
• 56:37
  Speaker 8: why we have the Voting Rights Act and the.
• 56:40
  Speaker 5: Civil Rights Act.
• 56:41
  Speaker 8: That's why we need to pass the Equality Act. That's
• 56:44
  Speaker 8: why we need to pass the ERA. Because there are moments.
• 56:47
  Speaker 2: in.
• 56:47
  Speaker 8: History where states fail to preserve the civil rights.
• 56:51
  Speaker 6: Of all people.
• 56:52
  Speaker 9: I have supported the ERA from the very beginning when.
• 56:54
  Speaker 3: I ran for the president. 30 seconds, because I want
• 56:56
  Speaker 3: to bring other people into this.
• 56:57
  Speaker 9: I have supported the ERA from the very beginning. I'm
• 56:59
  Speaker 9: the guy that extended the Voting Rights Act for 25 years.
• 57:03
  Speaker 9: We got to the place where we got 98 out
• 57:06
  Speaker 9: of 98 votes in the United States Senate doing it.
• 57:09
  Speaker 9: I've also argued very strongly that we, in fact, deal
• 57:12
  Speaker 9: with the notion of denying people access to the ballot box.
• 57:16
  Speaker 9: I agree that everybody wants to stay in fashion. Anyway,
• 57:19
  Speaker 9: my time's up.
• 57:19
  Speaker 2: I'm sorry. That was hard to listen to.
• 57:22
  Speaker 1: Tough way to end that. What were your reactions to
• 57:25
  Speaker 1: that in real time? Dan, what did you think?
• 57:30
  Speaker 3: The Biden part is hard. It really is because we've
• 57:33
  Speaker 3: said this before, but we all care about Joe Biden personally.
• 57:37
  Speaker 3: As a person, as Barack Obama's loyal vice president. But
• 57:41
  Speaker 3: it was painful to watch.
• 57:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 57:43
  Speaker 3: And it was painful to watch him get beat up
• 57:45
  Speaker 3: in a debate exchange. But what was even more painful
• 57:47
  Speaker 3: was his answer on busing, which is a completely unacceptable answer.
• 57:51
  Speaker 3: It's an unacceptable answer in the 70s, let alone in 2019.
• 57:55
  Speaker 3: Because what he is essentially, he's making a states' rights
• 57:58
  Speaker 3: argument on civil rights in 2019. Saying that, yes, of course,
• 58:04
  Speaker 3: Kamala Harris, we could integrate your schools. That's what Berkeley chose.
• 58:07
  Speaker 3: But what about Birmingham, Alabama? Or he's specifically referring to
• 58:11
  Speaker 3: my hometown of Wilmington, Delaware. which had such a problem
• 58:15
  Speaker 3: with school integration that there was federally mandated busing until
• 58:19
  Speaker 3: my senior year in high school. And Biden tried and
• 58:24
  Speaker 3: barely and almost succeeded to pass a law that would
• 58:28
  Speaker 3: prevent the court from forcing school integration in my hometown.
• 58:34
  Speaker 3: And there was such an answer to say, I was wrong.
• 58:37
  Speaker 3: Times have changed and I have changed.
• 58:39
  Speaker 1: She gave him an out. That's the crazy thing is
• 58:41
  Speaker 1: she was fair. in saying, do you still agree today
• 58:47
  Speaker 1: with the position you took back then?
• 58:49
  Speaker 2: And I don't think you're a racist.
• 58:50
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 58:50
  Speaker 1: And if he had just said, answered that question, no,
• 58:53
  Speaker 1: I don't. I've changed over the years, Kamala. And I'm
• 58:55
  Speaker 1: proud of my civil rights record. I did a lot
• 58:56
  Speaker 1: of wonderful things on civil rights. You can list the
• 58:59
  Speaker 1: Voting Rights Act, all the things that he really did
• 59:00
  Speaker 1: do on civil rights. But on that issue, I was wrong.
• 59:02
  Speaker 1: I've changed. We all change. You've changed on things too.
• 59:05
  Speaker 1: I mean, like there was an answer available to him
• 59:07
  Speaker 1: where it would have still been a very power moment
• 59:11
  Speaker 1: from Kamala, but at least Biden would have parried it.
• 59:14
  Speaker 1: He did not take that because he, like, as we
• 59:16
  Speaker 1: have been saying, he is stubborn and could not admit
• 59:21
  Speaker 1: that his position on busing was wrong.
• 59:24
  Speaker 4: No one can credibly argue that the federal government didn't
• 59:27
  Speaker 4: play a critical role in integration in this country. Absolutely critical.
• 59:32
  Speaker 4: And then for him to sort of pivot to the
• 59:34
  Speaker 4: Civil Rights Act made the whole thing make even less sense. Yeah,
• 59:40
  Speaker 4: it was a brutal moment. It was a brutal moment
• 59:42
  Speaker 4: because every fear and concern about Joe Biden as a
• 59:46
  Speaker 4: standard bearer of the Democratic Party in 2019 was laid bare.
• 59:49
  Speaker 4: You know, it was a moment in which his policy
• 59:52
  Speaker 4: position seemed antiquated. It was a moment where he did
• 59:54
  Speaker 4: not seem lithe and able to succeed on the debate stage.
• 59:58
  Speaker 4: It was a moment where he was upstaged by the
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 4: charisma and intensity and passion of someone facing him. And
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 4: it was a moment where he seemed old. So it
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 4: was a devastating moment for Joe Biden.
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 2: And now we should stipulate, we think, right?
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 4: Nate Silver tweeted this and pointed out that there have
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 4: been a whole bunch of scandals that I think all
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 4: of us, all the judges, all the pundits in the
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 4: moment thought were devastating for Biden. And he came through
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 4: them relatively unscathed in polling. So in the Crooked Media
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 4: Change poll, Biden was performing at, I believe, 62% among
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 4: African-American voters. The next closest was 11% from Kamala Harris.
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 4: So we should watch and see if those numbers move. But,
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 4: you know, look, on a moral level, like, indisputable. It's
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 4: just the politics of this.
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 2: It's hard to.
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 2: And I would say, yeah, I don't know what will
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 2: play out in the polls. I don't know what other
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 2: people watching it. I felt it was devastating to me
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 2: to see it because I want Democrats to win. And
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 2: right now, Joe Biden is the front runner of this
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 2: in this in this race. And I am you know,
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 2: and there is they are making a case that he
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 2: is the most electable. He is leading in the polls
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 2: when you compare him against Donald Trump. Well, this was
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 2: a moment to test that, to see what he was
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 2: like on a debate stage. And I and I think
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 2: this this was a signal to Democrats anyone who could
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 2: support Joe Biden to have a doubt. Myself among them.
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 3: I think it's like we're talking about Biden here, but
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 3: we should also talk about Kamala.
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 3: Which is in not just this moment, but throughout the
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 3: entire debate. I'm not sure I have ever seen a
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 3: candidate have a more dominating debate performance than Kamala Harris
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 3: had last night.
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 2: I agree. Me neither.
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 1: I can't remember.
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 3: She crushed that debate. She was charismatic on message. She
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 3: showed electability, showed how she could take Trump down.
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 1: She seemed like she was the leader on that stage
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 1: of all the other candidates.
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 3: It was not even close. It was head and shoulders
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 3: above everyone else, and frankly, anyone else I've seen in
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 3: a debate. And the Biden moment was part of that,
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 3: but we thought she was dominating the debate long before
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 3: the Biden moment, in the first half of the debate.
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 4: I'm going to break up the Kamala Harris love fest
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 4: for one second to read a clunker. uh, Hey guys,
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 4: you know what? America does not want to witness a
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 4: food fight. She said, they want to know how we're
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 4: going to put food on their table. Now, every debate,
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 4: every candidate has that line in their back pocket and
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 4: there's always a moment to bust it out.
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 2: It was still a little corny. It was very corny.
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 2: And yet, because she was so commanding, it worked. And
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 2: now it is a shame that she did steal that
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 2: line from the evil 1990s clown that wrote the rest
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 2: of Eric Swalwell's lines. Uh, But she still took that
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 2: moment and ran with it. And all the other kids
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 2: were like, fuck, I was going to say that.
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 1: Part of the reason that Kamala Harris is so impressive
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 1: is that she does have this cadre of consultants who
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 1: give her lines like that. She can deliver them better
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 1: than most and make you believe it. I mean, a
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 1: lot of her moments last night, the Biden moment, other moments,
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 1: you could tell were set pieces. She had practiced those moments, right?
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 1: I mean, they said, I guess Politico said that her
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 1: campaign had t-shirts ready to go with I was that
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 1: little girl on the t-shirt.
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 2: So that is not great to me. They tweeted it immediately.
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 2: The tweet was good. I just don't, like, Okay. Debates
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 2: are an effort to demonstrate authenticity, to create moments that
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 2: seem like they're off the cuff. That's fine. Do not
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 2: hang too much of a lantern on that.
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I just say it because it is indicative. Like, I,
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 1: having interviewed Kamala Harris, knowing her, like, I think she
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 1: has maybe more potential than anyone running for president. I
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 1: think she is charismatic. She is strong. She fucking nails
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 1: it in those debates. But every once in a while,
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 1: I noticed this in her closing statement, too. There's like,
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 1: cheesy consultant language that pops up there. And I just
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 1: want like, she needs to be her cause she's fucking great.
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Just, you know, the, um, the other thing that's so,
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 2: was so incredible about it is this is somebody that's
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 2: not pulling at 10% or 15%, she's pulling at 5%, right? She's, she,
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 2: she needed to win, you know, and she's been saying
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 2: this across the country. She said it in her closing.
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 2: She said it at the Iowa dinner. Um, you know,
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 2: I'm the one to prosecute the case. And then she
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 2: had a bunch of cheesy and I think not good
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 2: rhetoric about fraud, fraud, fraud, fraud, fraud, which was a
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 2: lot of language without actually a case. Fine. But what
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 2: she had done was set for herself an impossible expectation
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 2: for success in this debate. And then she met it.
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 1: Well, and what this what that exchange with Biden was
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 1: about was Trump.
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 6: Yes.
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 1: Because what it when she says I can prosecute the
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 1: case against Trump, she did it against Biden on stage
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 1: and she let Democrats see, OK, if Donald Trump is
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 1: standing where Joe Biden is, can you imagine these two
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 1: going at it and her winning? And you could. And
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 1: on Biden's side. But whatever you think of the substance
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 1: of the disagreement with the two of them, you look
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 1: at that and say, oh, he's supposed to be the
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 1: most electable guy. We want to put him on stage
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 1: next to Donald Trump. And then you imagine Trump tearing
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 1: into Biden. And if he does and if he responds
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 1: to Trump the way he responded to Kamala, you think, oh, shit,
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 1: he's not the most electable.
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 4: The other the other thing that she has and Dan
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 4: was making this point about Biden last night, which is.
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 4: Eric Swalwell made the first of 400 torch-related attacks on Biden,
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 4: and the split screen was just Swalwell and then Biden grinning,
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 4: and that grin said all you needed to know about
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 4: the silliness of that attack, and it brushed it right off.
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 2: Kamala Harris has this.
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 4: Ability to laugh her way through a tricky moment or
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 4: a tough question or an attack that is incredibly disarming,
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 4: and it served her well against a shithead like Trump.
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 3: The other thing I just say about Kamala, that if
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 3: we're trying to analyze this in the in the context
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 3: of what kind of nominee she would be or what
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 3: kind of president she would be, is that she is
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 3: a fucking clutch player. Every time she has had to
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 3: deliver under the brightest light she has done. So whether
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 3: it was Kavanaugh, Bill Barr, everyone was watching that. And
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 3: she nailed it. This debate, she nailed it.
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 1: Her kickoff speech, she nailed. She nails the set piece.
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 2: Do you think the clutch gene is real, Dan? Yes,
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 2: I do think she's real. We had talked about it
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 2: before the debate that this was an opportunity for Kamala
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 2: Harris to go after someone.
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 1: We did.
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 2: We said it. And joking before, I said, oh, maybe
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 2: she's going to start with Buttigieg because he's like, you know,
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 2: the goon before you get to the big boss Biden.
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 2: But she didn't. She went right for Biden, but actually
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 2: tucked into some of her language was a little hit.
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 1: On Buttigieg too. She was just like, Just as she
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 1: gets to the end of the hit on Biden, and
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 1: she's like, oh, yeah, and by the way, when I
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 1: was AG, we kept all those cameras, the police cameras, on.
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 2: And you were just like, oh.
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 1: She was like, oh, and I'm not done with you.
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 3: She's like, and Mayor Pete, sleep with one eye open
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 3: and pray during that debate draw next time.
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 2: And she was like, hey, Swalwell, nice tie. Orange?
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 1: Orange, glad you didn't wear another tie. Joe Biden. Joe
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 1: Biden also.
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 2: Nice, really nailed that one, Tommy.
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Tommy made a Swalwell joke there. Joe Biden also
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 1: took some hits from Swalwell. I think we might have
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 1: a clip of Eric Swalwell trying to make something happen here.
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 10: I was six years old when a presidential candidate came
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 10: to the California Democratic Convention and said, it's time to
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 10: pass the torch to a new generation of Americans. That
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 10: candidate was then Senator Joe Biden. Joe Biden was right
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 10: when he said it was time to pass the torch
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 10: to a new generation of Americans 32 years ago.
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 1: He's still right today.
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 10: If we're going to solve the issues of automation, pass
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 10: the torch. If we're going to solve the issues of
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 10: climate chaos.
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 2: Pass the torch.
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 10: If we're going to solve the issue of student loan debt,
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 10: pass the torch. If we're going to end gun violence
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 10: for families who are fearful of sending their kids to school.
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 1: Pass the torch. Fuck you.
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 2: It was I fucking could not. It made me so crazy.
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 2: The other thing about that that was so fucking awful
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 2: is he was so ready to jump in to attack Biden.
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 2: He did that after Mayor Pete spoke the millennial on
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 2: the stage because he was so pumped to go after
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 2: Joe Biden with that garbage can fucking speech.
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 3: If he had stopped.
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 3: At the first pass the torch, that would have been. Passable.
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 2: Decent. Diana. Passable.
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 4: It would have been enough. It would have been like
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 4: a medium okay moment. Making a case for generational change.
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 4: It would have been Swallow's best moment in the campaign.
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 4: You're totally right that doing it right after Mayor Pete,
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 4: who looks even younger, was not the moment to do it. But, dude,
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 4: don't lean into it so hard.
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 1: And then he brought it up a couple more times.
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 1: He said it again like he was so proud of
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 1: himself the first time. He's like, I'm bringing back the
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 1: torch joke.
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 2: You know what? I also just.
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 1: He had some lines. Remember the breaking up with Russia?
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 2: I'm going to break up with Russia and get back
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 2: together with NATO. You know what the problem with that is?
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 3: Make out with NATO.
• 1:08:18
  Speaker 2: Make out with NATO? Was it make out? I'm going
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 2: to fuck NATO. I'm going to fucking... Here's what's going
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 2: to happen here, all right? I'm going to break up
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 2: with Russia with a text, and then I'm going to
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 2: go right to NATO's house, and we're going to fuck.
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 2: Here's the thing about Eric Swalwell that really pisses me off,
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 2: which is, oh, we're going to pass the torch to you.
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 2: Every word out of your mouth sounds old. You sound
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 2: like you're 100 years old. You sound like a politician
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 2: that's been in politics since before you were born. It
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 2: is funny.
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 1: He does sound old. He's our age.
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 2: He's literally my age.
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 1: And just use him.
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 2: No, I just, after that broadside, when we interviewed him here,
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 2: I interviewed him.
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 1: He's such a perfectly nice guy.
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 3: Friendly offstage.
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 2: Normal. Talks like a younger person. Has interesting life experience.
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 2: Little kids.
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 1: Bring that guy to the stage.
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 2: Don't bring the memorized answer guy to the stage.
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 3: Well, you know what, though?
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 2: You're at 1%. You're a long shot candidate. There are
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 2: people out there who might think you got into this
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 2: race to build your brand, sell a book, get on television.
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 2: I don't know what. if your answer to all of
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 2: that is a bunch of cheesy fucking lines and no
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 2: actual argument, get off the fucking stage. I'm sorry, get
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 2: off the stage. It's too fucking important to have you
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 2: interrupting to try to make a moment for yourself in
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 2: the most important primary of our lives. Yeah.
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 1: Who else, which candidates were most impressive other than Kamala
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 1: in that debate? Did anyone else impressive? Anyone help themselves,
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 1: do you think?
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 3: Pete was good.
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 1: Pete was good.
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Pete was very good.
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 1: To me, Pete, like, He came in with a lot
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 1: of expectations, absolutely met those expectations, no more, no less,
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 1: but just was like fucking solid, good.
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 3: And it's just worth giving him credit for meeting his expectations.
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 3: He's the 37-year-old mayor of South Bend, Indiana, who's on
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 3: the debate stage.
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 1: A lot of fucking experience.
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 3: Standing next to Joe Biden. Yeah, for sure. And he
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 3: did deliver in that moment. I think he's got challenges
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 3: going forward that he's going to have to navigate. But
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 3: just being up there, not being nervous, delivering your lines
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 3: with convents, and being the subject of a very difficult
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 3: set of questions around your own conduct is different than
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 3: most candidates are. with a lot more experience, have to
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 3: deal with.
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and he, more than any other candidate, has name
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 1: identification challenges to deal with because we feel like we
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 1: all hear about Pete all the time, but a lot
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 1: of people.
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 2: Still don't know him.
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 1: And so I think 15, 16, however many million people
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 1: tuned in, if you saw Pete on that stage for
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 1: the first time, I think you'd probably be impressed.
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 3: Bernie was also fine. Bernie did Bernie. He delivered his message.
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 3: He delivered a message we know is very appealing with
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 3: some set of voters and was.
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 3: I mean, he did good. I don't think he improved
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 3: his situation. He didn't hurt himself. He was sort of
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 3: a non-entity after the beginning of the debate.
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 2: I liked Mayor Pete's answer on China. I thought it
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 2: was a smart and sophisticated and actually got at the
• 1:10:59
  Speaker 2: core of a big challenge in a way that I
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 2: think other people on that stage were not as adept
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 2: at addressing. Yeah, I agree with that. I thought.
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 4: I thought Gillibrand started slowly because she kept trying to
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 4: work this corruption message into into the first two moments
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 4: where she spoke, even though it didn't fit what was
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 4: being discussed. But when she got to reproductive rights and choice,
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 4: she was passionate and made a case that I think
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 4: made her stand out. Similar with Michael Bennett. I think
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 4: ninety nine point nine nine percent of people went into
• 1:11:28
  Speaker 4: this debate and having no idea who he was. And
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 4: you probably learned something about him last night, which is,
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 4: as Dan has mentioned, sort of half the battle.
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 2: One thing about the debate, too, I was thinking about
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 2: it after. A lot of people don't know who Michael
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 2: Bennett is, and I think probably a lot of people
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 2: were lost in that exchange between Joe Biden and Michael
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 2: Bennett over whether or not the negotiations with Mitch McConnell
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 2: over taxes were a success or too much of a compromise.
• 1:11:52
  Speaker 2: But a good reminder of how debates don't really reflect
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 2: real life, like That argument inside of that is one
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 2: of the core challenges for Democrats and will define what
• 1:12:01
  Speaker 2: Democrats do next, where we compromise and where we don't,
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 2: and the lessons learned during the Obama administration. On Gillibrand, Tommy,
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 2: I think you're exactly right. There's a reason we actually
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 2: didn't talk about her very much to this conversation because
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 2: I like Senator Gillibrand. I like her and she has
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 2: good things to say, but she just felt.
• 1:12:19
  Speaker 1: I felt like she didn't know she wasn't part of
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 1: the actual debate that was happening and every time she,
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 1: they went to her, she had some like pre-planned thing
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 1: that she was like taken out because.
• 1:12:30
  Speaker 3: That's a microcosm for her campaign.
• 1:12:31
  Speaker 2: That's exactly right. That's what I was going to say.
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 1: She has not decided what the campaign is really about.
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 1: And there are times when she said like, I am
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 1: going to be the candidate that talks about women's issues,
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 1: women's rights. And she leans into that and it's, and
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 1: it sounds great. There's other times she decides she's going
• 1:12:46
  Speaker 1: to be the candidate that talks about corruption. There's another
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 1: time she talks, then she decides she's going to be
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 1: the candidate who, was originally elected in rural upstate New
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 1: York and so can reach across the divide. And, you know,
• 1:12:58
  Speaker 1: like she has like a three or four different central
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 1: messages that she just sort of goes back and forth between.
• 1:13:04
  Speaker 9: Right.
• 1:13:04
  Speaker 2: It always felt like she was like at a 90
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 2: degree angle to the debate and not really there. And
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 2: it was it was confusing. And also, you know, she
• 1:13:13
  Speaker 2: was standing next to somebody. having one of the greatest
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 2: debates we've ever seen. So it was overshadowed. It was overshadowed.
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 1: She was right next to her. But I do think
• 1:13:22
  Speaker 1: that after Bernie Biden, after the top four, you know,
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 1: Gillibrand stood out. And I think you're right, Tommy. Like,
• 1:13:29
  Speaker 1: Gillibrand and Bennett seemed to me the next two that
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 1: sort of.
• 1:13:32
  Speaker 2: I thought Klobuchar the night before, too. Oh, yeah. I
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 2: was just talking about that. Now, Marianne Williamson stood out
• 1:13:36
  Speaker 2: for very different reasons.
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 1: Can we play the clip? Can we play the clip, please?
• 1:13:40
  Speaker 3: Great segue.
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 1: And Ms.
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 2: Williamson with the last word.
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 6: My first call is to the Prime Minister of New Zealand,
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 6: who said that her goal is to make New Zealand
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 6: the place where it's the best place in the world
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 6: for a child to grow up. And I will tell her, girlfriend,
• 1:13:51
  Speaker 6: you are so on, because the United States of America
• 1:13:54
  Speaker 6: is going to be the best place in the world
• 1:13:56
  Speaker 6: for a child to grow up. Ms.
• 1:13:57
  Speaker 2: Williamson, thank you. I'm going to call the head of
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 2: a country reeling from the most horrific mass shooting you
• 1:14:04
  Speaker 2: could possibly imagine and say, fuck you, we're number one.
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 2: You're on.
• 1:14:09
  Speaker 1: You're on, we're going to, we're going to have a
• 1:14:11
  Speaker 1: competition with New Zealand to see who.
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 2: Was she raised on the set of designing women?
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 3: What is that?
• 1:14:17
  Speaker 2: What is that cadence?
• 1:14:21
  Speaker 3: I find that accent.
• 1:14:22
  Speaker 2: I find it also baffling.
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 1: I'm going to refer to it.
• 1:14:26
  Speaker 2: As like a, a mid centrally mid Atlantic. Yeah, but
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 2: it is, no, it is not mid Atlantic because you know, the,
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 2: there's a, the Roosevelt had a mid Atlantic. That's mid Atlantic.
• 1:14:34
  Speaker 1: It was wild. Everything about the, the performance was wild. Um,
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 1: Everyone last night finding all of her tweets and tweeting them.
• 1:14:43
  Speaker 1: She's from Texas.
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 2: Maybe that's why.
• 1:14:45
  Speaker 3: That is not Texas.
• 1:14:46
  Speaker 2: That is Texas by way of Los Angeles, by way
• 1:14:50
  Speaker 2: of Europa, the moon of Jupiter. I don't know if
• 1:14:54
  Speaker 2: it's from Jupiter. Just tell me. I'm sorry if I
• 1:14:56
  Speaker 2: got the moon wrong. I'll Google it.
• 1:14:58
  Speaker 1: I interviewed her here, and she's a very lovely person,
• 1:15:02
  Speaker 1: and we had a nice conversation. But I did think
• 1:15:04
  Speaker 1: after the interview, like, hell yeah. I wonder how this
• 1:15:07
  Speaker 1: is going to, um, I wonder how this is going
• 1:15:09
  Speaker 1: to go on a debate stage. Well, just because it's very, uh,
• 1:15:12
  Speaker 1: I think that it's different.
• 1:15:14
  Speaker 2: It is different. It is different. You know, when she,
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 2: I feel like it's quite revealing when she's like asked
• 1:15:18
  Speaker 2: an actual substantive question about, about prescription drugs and this notion,
• 1:15:24
  Speaker 2: the thing that, that I do think, like, I don't
• 1:15:26
  Speaker 2: believe Marianne Williamson is a serious candidate and, uh, you know,
• 1:15:29
  Speaker 2: come at me in my mentions, William Sands, I don't
• 1:15:31
  Speaker 2: give a shit. Uh, But.
• 1:15:32
  Speaker 1: You're so brave.
• 1:15:33
  Speaker 2: So brave. They've been attacked.
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 3: Honestly.
• 1:15:36
  Speaker 1: He's here to talk about the hard truths.
• 1:15:38
  Speaker 2: Are they going to throw crystals at you? What are
• 1:15:40
  Speaker 2: you worried about? Yeah, that's fine. That's fine. But... Guys,
• 1:15:49
  Speaker 2: I think there was someone in my house. It smells
• 1:15:50
  Speaker 2: like incense. No, but... The message around like, first of all,
• 1:15:56
  Speaker 2: it's hilarious to be like, I'm sick of all this
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 2: superficial Medicare for all discussion. Let's talk about let's talk
• 1:16:01
  Speaker 2: about our 30,000 foot view of like how we're describing Trump.
• 1:16:05
  Speaker 2: But the like the notion of don't forget that Trump
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 2: campaigns on something deeper than policy and something deeper than rhetoric.
• 1:16:12
  Speaker 2: This idea of fear and hate is driving his campaign
• 1:16:15
  Speaker 2: and the kind of the deeper emotions that undergird. our
• 1:16:19
  Speaker 2: political debates right now. I do think there is value
• 1:16:22
  Speaker 2: in somebody reminding us of that. I just don't think
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 2: she's the right messenger for it. And I do. That's
• 1:16:26
  Speaker 2: partly why I'm so disappointed in Cory Booker. But it
• 1:16:28
  Speaker 2: is worth remembering to always come back to those first
• 1:16:31
  Speaker 2: principles that we're not fighting Donald Trump ultimately on policy.
• 1:16:34
  Speaker 2: Those policies are a way of capturing our values and
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 2: our understanding of the moment. That's all.
• 1:16:39
  Speaker 1: So candidates who did well over the two nights, what
• 1:16:42
  Speaker 1: do they have to do now to build on this momentum?
• 1:16:45
  Speaker 1: You're in a campaign now with a candidate who just
• 1:16:47
  Speaker 1: had a good night.
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 2: What do you do?
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 3: I mean, sadly, what you have to do is raise money.
• 1:16:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah. The deadline is Sunday night, I believe.
• 1:16:55
  Speaker 3: Sunday night, yeah.
• 1:16:55
  Speaker 1: Sunday night for this quarter, and then next week we'll
• 1:16:57
  Speaker 1: start getting all these numbers from everyone.
• 1:16:59
  Speaker 3: The quasi good news for democracy in general is most
• 1:17:02
  Speaker 3: of these candidates were going to be focused on raising
• 1:17:04
  Speaker 3: money from grassroots donors online for the next week.
• 1:17:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:17:08
  Speaker 3: But you have momentum. You've got to use it. You
• 1:17:11
  Speaker 3: better get to Iowa or New Hampshire. Have a town hall.
• 1:17:14
  Speaker 3: You'll get more people than you would otherwise get. You'll
• 1:17:16
  Speaker 3: get different people. who saw you on the debate stage,
• 1:17:19
  Speaker 3: get those people signed up. Now's the time, if you've
• 1:17:21
  Speaker 3: been trying to get endorsements from local officials or other politicians,
• 1:17:24
  Speaker 3: now's the time to go make those calls. But you've
• 1:17:28
  Speaker 3: got to come out of the gates blazing here in
• 1:17:29
  Speaker 3: order to get something out of this.
• 1:17:31
  Speaker 1: What do you do if you're Joe Biden's campaign right now,
• 1:17:33
  Speaker 1: aside from leak to the press that everything you did
• 1:17:36
  Speaker 1: was correct, but it was your candidate's fault? Which seems
• 1:17:39
  Speaker 1: to be what's been happening on that campaign, which I
• 1:17:41
  Speaker 1: can tell you is fucking a garbage way to be.
• 1:17:45
  Speaker 3: Well, that is.
• 1:17:48
  Speaker 2: First of all, it's awful. It's awful to do that.
• 1:17:50
  Speaker 2: It speaks really ill of somebody that would do that
• 1:17:52
  Speaker 2: while working on a campaign. That's it. That's all I
• 1:17:54
  Speaker 2: have to say.
• 1:17:54
  Speaker 4: My guess is that they duck and cover and see
• 1:17:57
  Speaker 4: what the next round of polling says.
• 1:17:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and then be able to say, like, see, this
• 1:18:00
  Speaker 1: didn't really matter. This was a media creation.
• 1:18:02
  Speaker 2: Which sucks.
• 1:18:03
  Speaker 4: And that's a very Trumpy way to approach politics. But,
• 1:18:06
  Speaker 4: you know, there's a whole world of people that argue
• 1:18:08
  Speaker 4: that that's what you should do.
• 1:18:09
  Speaker 3: Well, and a weird bit of scheduling. Do you know
• 1:18:11
  Speaker 3: what I heard? Joe Biden is today.
• 1:18:13
  Speaker 1: Oh, isn't he at Rainbow Push?
• 1:18:14
  Speaker 3: He's at Rainbow Push.
• 1:18:14
  Speaker 2: He just retweeted a photo with him and Jesse Jackson.
• 1:18:17
  Speaker 1: He's probably talking about this right now. He's going to
• 1:18:19
  Speaker 1: have to address this.
• 1:18:20
  Speaker 2: He's probably dated right now. One thought would be, if
• 1:18:23
  Speaker 2: I were them, I would find a way to address
• 1:18:24
  Speaker 2: it that will ultimately maybe just maybe stench some of
• 1:18:29
  Speaker 2: the damage. Stench? Staunch. Staunch the bleeding. Maybe staunch some
• 1:18:33
  Speaker 2: of the damage.
• 1:18:35
  Speaker 3: Staunch the stench.
• 1:18:36
  Speaker 2: Staunch the stench. We'll just try to avoid making matters worse,
• 1:18:38
  Speaker 2: figure a way out of this terrible cycle. And then
• 1:18:41
  Speaker 2: what I would be looking for is a big rally
• 1:18:43
  Speaker 2: where I could pick a huge fight with Donald Trump.
• 1:18:45
  Speaker 2: That's what I would be doing if I were Joe Biden.
• 1:18:47
  Speaker 2: Pick a fight with Donald Trump because when you're arguing
• 1:18:48
  Speaker 2: with Donald Trump, you're in a much better position when
• 1:18:50
  Speaker 2: you're arguing with Kamala Harris. Yeah, I agree.
• 1:18:52
  Speaker 3: Biden has this advantage too, which is this is when
• 1:18:55
  Speaker 3: he was in the middle of the two weeks ago
• 1:18:59
  Speaker 3: blow up over Biden race around his praise of segregationists.
• 1:19:02
  Speaker 3: He was able to get people like Jim Clyburn and
• 1:19:04
  Speaker 3: John Lewis to come out and speak on his behalf.
• 1:19:06
  Speaker 3: And so he's going to do that again today. Because
• 1:19:09
  Speaker 3: The hard part with what is so foolish of Biden's
• 1:19:13
  Speaker 3: approach to this is he has very good parts of
• 1:19:16
  Speaker 3: his record he can talk about in the years since then.
• 1:19:18
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 1:19:19
  Speaker 3: And he sort of mentioned them, but he could have
• 1:19:21
  Speaker 3: just apologized and gone on to what he's done since.
• 1:19:23
  Speaker 3: And that would be a compelling... explanation for a mistake
• 1:19:26
  Speaker 3: in his record.
• 1:19:27
  Speaker 4: You know, one under discussed Biden moment that was bad
• 1:19:30
  Speaker 4: because there were so many of them was his Iraq
• 1:19:32
  Speaker 4: war answer, which was like, well, you know, once I
• 1:19:34
  Speaker 4: got to the White House, Obama put me in charge
• 1:19:37
  Speaker 4: of getting all the troops back. I mean, he certainly
• 1:19:39
  Speaker 4: did not get really pressed on his vote for the
• 1:19:42
  Speaker 4: Iraq war or count for it in any way.
• 1:19:43
  Speaker 2: It's going to be a hard one to duck with
• 1:19:45
  Speaker 2: Bernie's next year. One other thing about Biden, too, is
• 1:19:48
  Speaker 2: I would also look to get him out of it,
• 1:19:51
  Speaker 2: get him out of his suit jacket, like Go to
• 1:19:53
  Speaker 2: the border. Go be amongst the problem. Be with people.
• 1:19:58
  Speaker 2: Be where people are being hit by this administration. Be
• 1:20:00
  Speaker 2: where the crises are. You have this electability argument that
• 1:20:05
  Speaker 2: people are buying. They just want to win. They want
• 1:20:08
  Speaker 2: to be safe. Show them that you're safe and show
• 1:20:10
  Speaker 2: them that you are in the fight with them. Okay.
• 1:20:14
  Speaker 1: That's all the time we have for today. Next week's schedule,
• 1:20:18
  Speaker 1: because it's the 4th, you're going to hear from Love it.
• 1:20:21
  Speaker 1: And me on Monday.
• 1:20:23
  Speaker 2: I'm on vacation.
• 1:20:24
  Speaker 1: Tommy's on vacation. Dan and I are going to record
• 1:20:26
  Speaker 1: a mailbag on Tuesday that will go out on Thursday,
• 1:20:30
  Speaker 1: I believe. So we'll have some pods next week in
• 1:20:33
  Speaker 1: case anything happens.
• 1:20:34
  Speaker 2: Have a beer. Eat a hot dog. Fireworks rule. That's
• 1:20:37
  Speaker 2: all I got.
• 1:20:38
  Speaker 3: Listen to our demagogue leader addressing the country on the
• 1:20:41
  Speaker 3: 4th of July.
• 1:20:44
  Speaker 1: Which clip do you guys want to play us out?
• 1:20:46
  Speaker 1: Do you want Marianne Williams in New Zealand or Eric
• 1:20:49
  Speaker 1: Swalwell torch?
• 1:20:50
  Speaker 2: Can we get Andrew Yang just not being allowed to speak?
• 1:20:52
  Speaker 3: Oh, we are going to get blown up by the
• 1:20:54
  Speaker 3: Yang gang.
• 1:20:55
  Speaker 2: Guys, hey, Yang gang, he didn't do well. He didn't speak.
• 1:20:58
  Speaker 2: You have one job. You have one job.
• 1:21:01
  Speaker 1: In fairness, he didn't get called on much, but he
• 1:21:02
  Speaker 1: didn't speak.
• 1:21:02
  Speaker 2: You got to jump in.
• 1:21:03
  Speaker 4: You got one chance to explain what UBI was, but
• 1:21:06
  Speaker 4: then no one knew who you were or why you
• 1:21:08
  Speaker 4: believe it's important.
• 1:21:09
  Speaker 3: Here's some general advice for some of these peripheral candidates.
• 1:21:11
  Speaker 3: Try to be somewhere between Delaney and Yang. In terms
• 1:21:14
  Speaker 3: of your approach to getting your words in.
• 1:21:16
  Speaker 2: Don't go the full de Blasio, but you've got to
• 1:21:17
  Speaker 2: jump in there. And just a thought for Eric Swalwell.
• 1:21:21
  Speaker 2: Pick up a torch and set these speeches you've written
• 1:21:25
  Speaker 2: on fire. All right, we're out.