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Nonviolent Communication · Podcast PAGE – Humankind on Public Radio

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Humankind is produced in association with W
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Boston and supported by the humankind program fund.
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Additional funding for the series has been provided
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by the corporation for public broadcasting, the National
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Institutes of Health,
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Annie e casey foundation and the Park Foundation.
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This notion of, if I can just be...
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Still enough to listen to you.
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Just in that process of listening
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creates
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understanding
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and a connection
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between us.
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Promotes from me the possibility
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of peace making.
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The promote for me, the the possibility that
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we really can get along
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in society
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that we really can create
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institutions in places
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where peace building is sustainable.
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A simple way of communicating that can help
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us to heal conflict and foster greater compassion.
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You're listening to humankind. I'm David Freud.
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It's been said that we've learned how to
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speak, but not necessarily how to communicate.
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Rarely, we taught the art of deep listening.
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Or how to respond to someone without accusation
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or blame or the ability to articulate our
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own needs without putting others on the defensive.
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These are some skills taught in a system
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known as non nonviolent
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communication. Its aim is to promote more understanding
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in a world riddled with conflict.
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Finding ways to do that has long been
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a quest of Betty Bi an educator in
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Cambridge,
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Massachusetts.
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In an age where language is sometimes cheap
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and cra,
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her manner of speech is quiet and considered.
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I
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was in the peace corps,
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when I was very young,
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and
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I read a montessori school.
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For many years.
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I
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was very involved in the women's internationally Peace
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and freedom.
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For many years.
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In all of those environments, conflict was very
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present
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mean, conflict is a very normal
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condition in our lives. It and the conflict
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is not ever the problem.
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Of course, it's always the ways in which
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we try to solve it that we get
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into trouble.
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The the complex
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in
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teaching and running a school often had to
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do with
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people's assumptions,
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about
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what was actually
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happening or
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being
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required or requested of them.
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So
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Again,
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I've discovered it over and over again,
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the way to solving conflicts in a way
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that we all can live with it, is
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to listen deeply to people's needs
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that are at the center of the conflict
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and more often than not,
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the needs aren't in conflict.
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It's the strategies that we're trying to use
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to solve them.
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So
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My
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approach
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has always been to listen
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to listen and to listen.
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And in that listening process,
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looking for
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a place of
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agreement,
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a common ground.
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And
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more often than not,
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finding enough common ground to then move more
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deeply into where the conflict or the the
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The disconnect around the need is. Betty Bi
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has worked toward conflict
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resolution in venues ranging from a preschool on
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Cape Cod.
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To the United Nations department of disarm affairs.
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But whether in the playground or in the
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international arena or in personal relations at home.
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For Betty Burke the same principles of non
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nonviolent
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communication or Nbc
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apply.
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Listen respectfully,
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communicate authentically.
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She rarely attends a practice group with others.
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Trying to hone the skills of Nbc.
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In my own
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struggles,
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there is this sense of often
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this sense of
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wanting to fix
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somebody else's
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distress
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because
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there's some way in which I have
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taken on the notion that I'm responsible
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for
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their feelings.
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And
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having the opportunity through the Nbc practice group
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to actually
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understand my responsibility for what I've done.
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But also the fact that the other person
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makes choices about how they feel about what
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I've done,
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and that I don't get to
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control
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or be in charge of the choice is
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that they make.
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And that's both liberating
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in the end
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and goes against what
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we're brought up to to believe
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that in fact,
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I can behave in a particular way. I
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can... Whatever I do,
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you have the choice about your feelings around
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it
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that I can say something that's
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quite un and quite rude
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But how you receive it is up to
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you. You can choose to hear it as
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rude and
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cruel,
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or you can hear it as
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Betty not being very skill in trying to
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communicate
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and that it
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it truly is not about you. Not taking
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it personally.
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Yeah.
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How much of this
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practice of non nonviolent communication boils down to,
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not taking personally
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the things that other people say or do.
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All of it.
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All of it is about
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I mean not taking it personal is about
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really knowing that you aren't
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creating
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the other person's reality.
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It's hard.
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It is because it's not how we are
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raised.
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It's not the messages that we get as
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children.
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So if we're not creating the other person's
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reality,
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what is our role in
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communicating with the other person,
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especially in a case of conflict.
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Holding up our own.
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Like, being in touch with them authentically about
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our own reality.
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And
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being with them in a way that supports
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them,
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being in being with them in a relationship
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to them that supportive
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about their true nature,
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which is
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quite
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beautiful.
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And sacred and special.
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Even if
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covered over sometimes.
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Always, it's covered over.
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It is about unpacking it about
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restoring it sometimes,
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red it sometimes,
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but the...
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I believe and I I think it's at
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the basis of
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not nonviolent communication is that we are all
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good,
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loving,
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beautiful beings
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and that... At core. At core.
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And that
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Nbc is about helping us be in touch
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with that core.
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More and more and more.
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On a daily basis moment to moment.
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And of course, we will slip out of
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it,
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but we can always
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reestablish it
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The simply yet powerful skill sat known as
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non nonviolent
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communication has been championed by a tireless world
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traveler named Marshall Rosenberg.
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In 19 84, he founded the nonprofit center
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for non nonviolent
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communication based in La Sent California.
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Raised in a turbulent neighborhood of Detroit
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He has long been
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preoccupied with the question of what motivates some
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people toward violence,
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while others are moved to compassion instead.
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It spends much of the year training people
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in non nonviolent
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communication.
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Well, first, we try to get people to
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see the difference between intellectual understanding. Which is
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going up to our mind and classifying
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and trying to
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intellectually understand what somebody is saying.
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And empathy, which for us is to connect
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with the life that's coming through the other
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person at this moment.
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I was in a refugee camp for in
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the Middle East and when my interpreter
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announced that I was from the United States.
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A gentleman jumped to his feet and screamed
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at me, me do it.
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And here was my response to him. I
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said,
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sir,
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Are you
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irritated
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annoyed? I guess even furious
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with my government because your need for
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support is not being met by some of
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our policies.
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See We try to hear people's feelings and
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needs behind what they say.
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He was rather shocked, I think, to to
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hear that. I guess he was expecting a
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defensive or aggressive response.
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And after he stopped for a moment. And
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he said you're darn right.
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We don't have housing. We don't have sewage.
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Why are you sending your weapons?
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So again, I continued trying to hear the
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life that was coming through him, and I
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said,
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so, sir, am I hearing you correctly that
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it's very painful when you have such basic
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needs not getting met, and you see a
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lot of weapons being sent over here.
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You said you're darn right.
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You know what it's like to live under
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these conditions?
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I said sir, so you'd like some understanding
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of.
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Just how painful it can be to live
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under these conditions.
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Now in a couple more sentences, he felt
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understood and he could start to hear me.
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And about 40 minutes after that when the
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meeting was over, he invited me to Rama
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down dinner at his house.
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Was your first goal to
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diffuse the anger and intensity by asking those
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questions
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trying to
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understand him and hear him out. Oh, my
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first goal was to see the beauty in
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this human being.
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I know that whatever is coming through a
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human being is a very precious energy.
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A divine energy, and I wanna commit with
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that.
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If even if the person is
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being nasty and he's only nasty if I'm
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diagnosing him? I don't diagnose him. I try
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to hear what is his pain right now
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that leads him to call me this name?
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What needs of his or not being met.
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So you are not perceiving him
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as threatening or as
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unpleasant?
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Let me say that the first... When he
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jumped to his feet in the tone of
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his voice, my first reaction, I was scared.
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I was really scared so I took a
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deep breath before I said anything and just
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saw my fear, but I didn't see him
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as the problem. I just saw that I
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was scared
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and giving myself just that much understanding. I
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could then shift my attention to what he
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might be feeling and needing when he said
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that. Now,
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I had some clues to go on because
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as we were walking into the refugee camp
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that day, we had to kick out of
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the path,
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empty tear gas grenades. There were hundreds of
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them all over the ground. There had been
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a riot in this refugee camp the night
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4 and hundreds of tear gas grenades were
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shipped in there. And on the side of
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these empty grenades was written made in Usa.
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So if people are seeing that as they
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walk the paths of their
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refugee camp,
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they have some
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associations to people.
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Non nonviolent
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communication recognizes that there's often a story behind
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the story.
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The ideas people express and the tone of
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voice they use
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Don't always convey fully their are true underlying
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concerns.
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A good listener will notice not only what's
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being said, but also what's been left said
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and we'll try to get clarification on the
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source of conflict.
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For Betty Bi, who is African American,
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peer beneath the surface
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helped her to get past appearances while
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participating in a circle of peace activists.
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I joined
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the circle after the invitation quite joyful
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and
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fell quite
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privileged and honored to be invited.
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Out of my own sense of my own
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work
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and my own
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accomplishment
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around non violence and peace education and
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and those values that I hold in the
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world in the place that I have
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actually
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had an opportunity to work.
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And as the meeting
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of the circle
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progressed over the year.
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I
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through
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conversations and
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observations
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realized
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that
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I had actually been invited
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because I filled a particular
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diversity slot.
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And I was
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quite
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hurt
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and felt
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angry
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about that.
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But
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actually, I got some empathy around it.
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I was able to
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separate my own
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personal
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internalized
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feelings of not
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being enough just as who I was, and
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for the work I done to be invited,
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but that it was
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a racial
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slot that need to be filled and I
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met that race and I was invited.
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I was able to
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do some empathy for the person who was
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organizing this circle,
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and
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understanding that the need to
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diversify the circles to invite
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people
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into it who would meet her needs for
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inclusion and diversity.
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Really had nothing to do with my worth
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and my value.
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It was really about her need to
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feel her circle in a particular way.
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And I was able to
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reconnect with my own self around my own
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worth and my own value.
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And not
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around
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my
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feelings of
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diminish or feelings of not enough ness
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that got stimulated
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when I real when I understood
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the circumstances that had included me in the
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circle,
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that that was not about me at all.
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In the heat of a moment of conflict,
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especially if we're feeling slight or even attacked.
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It can be extremely hard to see the
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other people as they really are, rather than
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through this subjective lens that we may have
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created about them.
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Non nonviolent
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communication offers some tools for breaking through those
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pre
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toward a more authentic way of interacting.
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Marshal Rosenberg.
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Well, the first thing you is that all
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this language that we first hear is criticism
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attack in insult.
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Is a tragic expression of what the speaker
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is feeling and needing.
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And we show people that if you can
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see the truth,
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The truth, you see. Now I was working
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with Israeli police.
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And when I didn't make this clear at
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first. 1 of the police... Let me see
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if I'm understanding you, Marshal,
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you're saying if somebody spits on me, I'm
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supposed to tell myself it's raining up.
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I said, thank you for that question. I
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think it'll help me be clear.
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No. Telling yourself it's raining out is looking
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at the world through rose colored glasses that
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I'm saying is it requires seeing the truth.
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See what that person is feeling and needing
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at the time you get this message. Whatever
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the message is even if it is spitting.
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So you're seeing a difference
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between when somebody lashes out
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through insult or Vi,
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and
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who the person is that doing the lashing
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out. But I'm gonna be even more concrete
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than the the abstract, who the person is.
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I wanna hear something very concrete
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What are they feeling at this moment? What
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emotions?
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And what needs of theirs are creating the
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emotions?
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See all human beings have the same needs.
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So when I see the need of this
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person that's being expressed through this
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language.
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I see another human being like me like
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you. I don't see an enemy.
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I don't see him lashing out or insulting
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me. I see him as trying in the
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best way he knows how to tell me
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that something I've done is a stimulus for
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pain for him.
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And it didn't meet some needs of his,
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or maybe it isn't something I did. It's
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the fact that I'm from the United States.
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Well,
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that's not something about the country I'm associated
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with is doing something that's stimulating great pain
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for him. It's not meeting his needs.
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So as we put it this way sometimes
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in our training.
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Never hear what somebody thinks about you. You'll
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live longer and enjoy people more.
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Instead of hearing what they think about you,
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even when they say, I think you're this
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or that.
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Hear the truth. Here at that moment, what
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that person is feeling and needy.
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What they're telling you about themselves. Hear what
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they are feeling
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and needing, and that does tell you about
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themselves. Yes. It says that at that moment
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what they're feeling and needing.
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Now we have to guess at this because
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they're not using a language of feelings and
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needs.
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However, even if I guess wrong, I am
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still seeing a human being. I'm not hearing
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any criticism.
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I'm not diagnosing
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them. I'm connecting with their human.
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The philosophy of non nonviolent
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occasion requires deeply respecting the humanity of others.
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But that doesn't dictate yielding to unreasonable demands
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or ac whenever someone tries to get their
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way by use of bully tactics.
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Treating the other person with dignity while treating
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oneself with dignity,
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can mean walking a fine line.
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The line is
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understanding
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my responsibility versus your responsibility.
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And my taking responsibility
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for what I'm responsible for.
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And how do you see your responsibility in
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a mode of communication and based on non
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violence?
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Consciousness and awareness around speech.
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The way I speak
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the way I listen,
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my intentions,
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my
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commitment to staying self connected
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in the process of being connected to the
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other person.
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So to remain true to yourself.
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To remain
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present with myself. That's the kind of truth,
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but not abandoning my own
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emotions, my own feelings and my own needs,
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in the moment of listening to the other
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persons.
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So sometimes it's about taking time out. It's
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about saying, you know, I'm not I'm not
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able to give you the kind of
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listening and the kind of attention that you
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need right now because I'm needing so much.
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Could we make some time
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just to be quiet together, just to give
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me a chance to
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reconnect with myself so that I can more
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connected to you.
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So you said a moment ago that your
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responsibility
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included being responsible for
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your speech?
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Yes.
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It seems we live in a culture where
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there's a lot of reckless
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speech.
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What does it mean who
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consciously
21:52
take
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responsibility for what we say.
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It means staying in
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a place of
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wake and consciousness
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about myself,
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staying connected to myself and my values.
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And
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which is which is
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being aware that really my intention is to
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be in the service of
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staying connected.
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And if that's what I want,
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then
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I have to do certain things.
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Like monitor my speech,
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monitor my responses,
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be aware of my feelings.
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Maintain
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an environment that nurture and contributes
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to those values.
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Which for me means not watching television,
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turning off the news.
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Monitoring the newspapers or the the media that
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comes into my house.
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So really
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being very discriminating in what you allow into
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your thinking? Yes. The books that I choose
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to read, the movies I choose to see
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So choice
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is at the heart of
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some of that
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consideration in how I
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live in order to maintain that quality of
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speech
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or action.
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It's so easy.
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Nevertheless,
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for us to blur out things, we don't
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really
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intend. Mh. To say. Yes. Of course.
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I make lots of mistakes.
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The level of skill that I
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want to live
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is often not there.
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Its practice.
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It's about being in the
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commitment and intention of practice.
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And you know, I I do believe that
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when the intention is there, when the intention
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is good even when we lack our skill
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or we make a mistake.
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There is a way of
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recur reads much more quickly
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than when the intention is not good.
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You know, I might hurt your... I might
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do something that
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is hurtful that results in hurting or someone
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feeling hurt
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But if my intention was not to
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my intention was not to harm.
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The way in which we can reconnect and
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recover it is much is much quicker.
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And for you, what is
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what is the intention that underlies your interest
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in communicating with people in a nonviolent way.
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Promoting peace,
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promoting
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promoting,
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a way of being in the world.
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That I would like everybody to be able
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to be in the world,
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living in a way that
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really come out of doing into others
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as I would have them do unto to
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me.
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And my doing into others is really
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coming out of a place of love and
25:12
acceptance and
25:15
appreciation
25:15
and
25:17
recognizing the sacred
25:20
in all beings.
25:23
So
25:25
that's my intention. That's what
25:28
that's what motivates
25:30
my
25:32
desire
25:33
of, a way of being in the world.
25:35
And I don't often don't come up to
25:37
it, but it's still what I'm holding.
25:40
And
25:41
is there anything in your personal life personal
25:44
story that
25:45
drives you to want to
25:48
make the world more peaceful.
25:50
David, I grew up in a family.
25:53
With
25:54
a grandmother and a father,
25:57
who,
25:59
modeled for me
26:01
a way of being in the world that
26:03
I
26:04
integrated
26:05
in a non stage at and
26:09
it's deeply embedded in me
26:11
this this notion that
26:14
the way to be in the world is
26:15
to be in in the world in a
26:17
loving kind
26:20
generous
26:22
spacious,
26:23
abundant,
26:25
message,
26:27
that
26:29
there is enough for everyone,
26:31
and that,
26:33
part of our being on this planet is
26:35
to be in this service
26:37
of others
26:38
and that
26:40
others are here to be in the service
26:42
of us as well that is... It's about
26:44
mutual.
26:46
And we have some responsibility
26:48
to
26:50
create the kinds of communities that we want
26:53
to live in.
26:55
And it's it's to be done in a
26:57
collective,
26:58
collaborative,
27:02
holy way.
27:04
Not in a
27:06
hierarchical,
27:09
mean spirited competitive way.
27:13
It it's it's a message that I got
27:15
as a child, and it...
27:17
It's been tested.
27:19
I've tried other ways.
27:20
But they've never felt off intake in the
27:23
way this 1 does.
27:25
Educator Betty Bi and earlier, Marshall Rosenberg.
27:29
Author of non nonviolent
27:31
communication, a language of life.
27:48
You're listening to humankind. I'm David Freud,
27:52
studio recording by Steve Colby at tutorial assistance
27:55
from Thomas Royal,
27:57
special thanks to Nancy Carlson Page.
28:00
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program development and support provided by short media.
28:11
You can hear more episodes of our series
28:13
at humankind podcast dot org. That's humankind podcast
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28:19
This segment on non nonviolent
28:22
communication is humankind program number 100.
28:26
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28:55
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28:56
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28:59
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29:02
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Thanks.
29:19
At