Latest / Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families / #443 A Conversation With Michael Grose

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#443 A Conversation With Michael Grose · Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families

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  Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families Podcast. It's the podcast for the
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  Speaker 1: time poor parent who just once answers Now.
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  Speaker 2: A lot of the good parenting messages which we talk
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  Speaker 2: about now is framed around how we can communicate and
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  Speaker 2: become better communicators, as well as understanding kids' motivations and
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  Speaker 2: also as well as understanding how families operate.
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  Speaker 1: And now here's the stars of our show, my mum
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  Speaker 1: and Dad.
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  Speaker 3: Every now and again on the Happy Families Podcast, we
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  Speaker 3: get to make big announcements. We get to share things
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  Speaker 3: with you that we think are going to be really
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  Speaker 3: really interesting for you and have significant ramifications for the
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  Speaker 3: way that we do business in the way that we
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  Speaker 3: try to help your family to be happier. Today, one
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  Speaker 3: of those conversations is going to happen, and I'm really
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  Speaker 3: excited to be able to introduce you to Michael Gross.
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  Speaker 3: Michael has for the last thirty odd years been involved
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  Speaker 3: in parenting education around Australia and even overseas. He's written
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  Speaker 3: a handful of books and run a business called Parenting Ideas.
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  Speaker 3: Michael's been well acquainted with parents throughout the nation for
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  Speaker 3: a very long time and he joined me on the
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  Speaker 3: Happy Families Podcast today Michael, thanks for joining me.
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  Speaker 2: That's a pleasure justin thanks for having me on.
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  Speaker 3: I'm really curious, Michael, what were the big issues that
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  Speaker 3: parents worried about most back in the nineteen nineties when
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  Speaker 3: this all began.
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  Speaker 2: It was behavior. It was how do I get my
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  Speaker 2: kids to behay? Was the big issue. So I guess
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  Speaker 2: back then parenting was code for managing kids. You know,
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  Speaker 2: I'm going to a parenting seminar. Oh, you're going to
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  Speaker 2: to a seminar to learn how to manage the kids.
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  Speaker 2: And there's a reason for that, because society then undergone
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  Speaker 2: a huge shift. So right up to the early seventies
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  Speaker 2: or mid seventies, we lived in a hierarchical society, which
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  Speaker 2: was sort of, you know, member up there when we
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  Speaker 2: were down there. Adults were up there. Kids were down there,
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  Speaker 2: and that's why we legally hit them in schools, and
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  Speaker 2: that's why, you know, sort of corporate punishment was around.
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  Speaker 2: And then there was a a huge shift, a huge
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  Speaker 2: shift in the seventies and into the eighties, and parents
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  Speaker 2: and school and teachers had been left behind. So suddenly
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  Speaker 2: it was no longer corporal punishment anymore. No longer wasn't
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  Speaker 2: hierarchical respect, because respect used to be hierarchical. Come on,
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  Speaker 2: you respect your elders, you know you call you call
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  Speaker 2: them auntie and uncle and all the rest of it.
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  Speaker 2: And you call your teacher mister and missus. So very
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  Speaker 2: much that hierarchical society. And then there was a shift
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  Speaker 2: into a more flat earth, and teachers struggled with the
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  Speaker 2: whole notion of behavior management, and parents did too, so
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  Speaker 2: a lot of their tools were taken away, which was
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  Speaker 2: largely coercion or however else do you go to do
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  Speaker 2: this sort of thing? And how do I get my
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  Speaker 2: kids to cooperate? And what it actually had shifted really
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  Speaker 2: was the notion of respect. Now longer was it hierarchical respect.
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  Speaker 2: It was more mutual respect. We've got to treat each
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  Speaker 2: other respectfully. So if you know back in the day,
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  Speaker 2: back in the Ford from fifties and sixties, that a
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  Speaker 2: parent could be fairly mean to a child under the
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  Speaker 2: name of I'm the parent, I'm a hierarchic, I'm doing
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  Speaker 2: this for your best interest, I'm making the decisions, and
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  Speaker 2: so by and large that would fit, that would work.
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  Speaker 2: That approach didn't work in the late eighties because a
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  Speaker 2: whole bunch off happened in our society and so teachers
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  Speaker 2: and parents, Parents in particular really struggled. So when we
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  Speaker 2: when I worked at Monash and Out, we called it
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  Speaker 2: the Monash Parent Teacher Education Center. We had hundreds and
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  Speaker 2: hundreds of people come to our courses up there, and
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  Speaker 2: it was all about how do I get my kids
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  Speaker 2: to cooperate with each other and how do I how
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  Speaker 2: do I how do I discipine my kids. So of
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  Speaker 2: course what we talked about then was the notion of consequences,
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  Speaker 2: so as a lot of it was natural consequences, logical
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  Speaker 2: consequences as well, so that was a big issue. Sibling
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  Speaker 2: riberry was a big issue. And if you're raising teens,
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  Speaker 2: and I remember this very very vividly, the biggest issue
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  Speaker 2: for teens with around teams with drugs and parenting was
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  Speaker 2: it was a fear bit of money around in schools
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  Speaker 2: and at that time linked to drugs. So if you
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  Speaker 2: and the thoughts were that if you can create a safe,
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  Speaker 2: happy family, kids are less likely to take hard drugs
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  Speaker 2: as they move on, and so there was that link there,
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  Speaker 2: So that was a huge issue. You always had to
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  Speaker 2: address that. So yeah, it was that's probably the number one.
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  Speaker 2: And my first presentation which I used to used to
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  Speaker 2: run in the nineties was called Devils, Darlings and Discipline
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  Speaker 2: and it worked gangbusters. It was better my first topic.
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  Speaker 2: My first topic was parenting the primary school child, and
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  Speaker 2: people stay stayed away in droves. As soon as I
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  Speaker 2: changed that to Devils, Darlings and Discipline, it worked well
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  Speaker 2: and I used to talk about the nation more about
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  Speaker 2: focusing on yourself was parent So a lot of parents
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  Speaker 2: struggled to get cooperation from the kids. They're always telling
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  Speaker 2: the kids what to do. And the notion of Adlerian psychology,
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  Speaker 2: which was the psychology which we learned at Monash, was
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  Speaker 2: that you don't tell kids what to do, you focus
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  Speaker 2: on yourself, which is an interesting notion. So it's a
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  Speaker 2: flip and it's a really it's more a communication method
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  Speaker 2: and how do we communicate to get what we want
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  Speaker 2: with kids? And as you've seen over the journey, a
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  Speaker 2: lot of what we talk about is how do you
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  Speaker 2: communicate with the kids, how do you get messages across
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  Speaker 2: how do you talk to your teenager so that your
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  Speaker 2: teenager will listen rather than tell. So you know, a
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  Speaker 2: lot of the good paroding messages, which we talk about
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  Speaker 2: now is framed around how we can communicate and become
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: better communicators, as well as understanding kids' motivations and also
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: as well as understanding how families operate. And I guess
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  Speaker 2: if there's one shift that I've noticed in the time
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  Speaker 2: is way back then, it was more parenting was more
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  Speaker 2: family focused. There was a lot of people who came
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  Speaker 2: to our courses, and when I ran my own courses
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  Speaker 2: and wrote a lot of it was about, Hey, you
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  Speaker 2: can get your family to gel, how you can decrease
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  Speaker 2: sibling rivalry. That's always an issue, that's a golden issue
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  Speaker 2: which continues to this day. But how do you get
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  Speaker 2: your family to gel? Do you? And how do you
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  Speaker 2: get it all together? And that's been a massive shift
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  Speaker 2: because and my research project for my masters but then
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  Speaker 2: was looking at family size, and I noticed that parenting
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  Speaker 2: changed when size changed. So families with four kids, it
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  Speaker 2: was very much a group based parenting. We're all in
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  Speaker 2: this together. If there was a discipline issue, while we're
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  Speaker 2: all going home, we're a going to miss out because
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  Speaker 2: you're messed up. Mum and dad were less likely to
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  Speaker 2: be involved in the minutia of kids' lives, and so
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  Speaker 2: those kids had more space away from psychological space. If
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  Speaker 2: you had two kids, all less, parenting was very much
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  Speaker 2: an individual endeavor. Mum and dad would say, I'm parenting
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  Speaker 2: you John, and I'm parenting you Mary. And I'm disciplining
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  Speaker 2: you John, I'm discipling you you Mary. So it was
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  Speaker 2: very much more individual parenting. And that's common sense because
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  Speaker 2: because the more kids you have, and you know this,
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  Speaker 2: the more kids you have, the more you give them space,
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  Speaker 2: the more you know about you don't know every little
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  Speaker 2: thing which has happened, and you're more concerned about making
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  Speaker 2: the family jail. So what's happened since I started is
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  Speaker 2: we've dropped a kid off the We've we've dropped one
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  Speaker 2: child has dropped off the off the perch. In other words,
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  Speaker 2: when my parents raised raised me back in the fifties
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  Speaker 2: and early sixties, the mean number of children in families
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  Speaker 2: was four. That was in nineteen sixty one. When I
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  Speaker 2: had my kids in the eighties, the mean number of
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  Speaker 2: kids was three. Now we know in families the mean
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  Speaker 2: number of kids is too, So over generations we've dropped
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  Speaker 2: off one and now we've moved away from a more
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  Speaker 2: family centric to a child centric way of parenting, and
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  Speaker 2: that's neither good nor bad, it just is. But that's
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  Speaker 2: been a shift, a definite shift.
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  Speaker 3: After the break, we're going to talk a little bit
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  Speaker 3: more about these trends and how things have changed, and
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  Speaker 3: also find out what Michael's most proud of after thirty
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  Speaker 3: years of parenting education.
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  Speaker 1: It's their Happy Families podcast.
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  Speaker 3: For a happier family, Try a Happy Families membership, because
• 8:38
  Speaker 3: a happy family doesn't just happen. Details at happy families
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  Speaker 3: dot com dot au. It's the Happy Famili's podcast, the
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  Speaker 3: podcast for the time or parent who just wants answers?
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  Speaker 3: Now hanging out today with Michael Gross from Parenting Ideas
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  Speaker 3: celebrating the best part of thirty years as a parenting educator.
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  Speaker 3: I just thought, what a fascinating story to hear a
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  Speaker 3: school teacher who's ended up a university doing a master's
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  Speaker 3: to become a better educator, who leaves education entirely to
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  Speaker 3: start helping parents and families, and thirty years down the track,
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  Speaker 3: we're looking at those big issues that used to exist.
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  Speaker 3: As I'm thinking about all the things you've talked about, Michael,
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  Speaker 3: and so many things that i'd love to pick up on,
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  Speaker 3: but timing is going to get away from us. I'd
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  Speaker 3: love to know what are you most proud of when
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  Speaker 3: you think about the last thirty years as as somebody
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  Speaker 3: who's helping families.
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  Speaker 2: That's a really good question. There's the things. There's the
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  Speaker 2: ego things that you're sort of proud of and the
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  Speaker 2: success that tick the box. And there's also the sort
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  Speaker 2: of legacy and things. I'll actually touch on a couple
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  Speaker 2: of those. I was really proud to have been the
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  Speaker 2: first person to conduct a perenting seminar in federal politicians
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  Speaker 2: in Parliament House in two thousand and four, which was
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  Speaker 2: a real whop, a really great experience, and then we
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  Speaker 2: conducted I kicked off a tour and Australian tour which
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  Speaker 2: was fairly funded, where we traveled around Australia parenting seminars
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  Speaker 2: back in two thousand and four and that was a
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  Speaker 2: great experience and that's something which is and hap me
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  Speaker 2: to grow as a person as well because we got
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  Speaker 2: in front of so many different audiences. I also love
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  Speaker 2: the fact that we for about six years we do
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  Speaker 2: an annual tour in the UK and spoke there and
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  Speaker 2: that was fascinating because we went from places such as Petersley,
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  Speaker 2: which is where Billy Elliott was filmed, which was very
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  Speaker 2: low socio economic through to top end private schools as
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  Speaker 2: well and talking to parents there. So they were fascinating experiences,
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  Speaker 2: so from an experiential point of view, and I've been
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  Speaker 2: really fortunate to have a broad breadth of experiences. I
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  Speaker 2: guess the thing you're proud of is you know, you'll
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  Speaker 2: always love the fact that the work you do has meaning.
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  Speaker 2: And I think I've been able to sort of be
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  Speaker 2: on the pulse of raising kids for a long period
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  Speaker 2: of time and I've probably influenced you do. When you're
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  Speaker 2: right about how you raise kids, you're certainly influencing people
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  Speaker 2: in a positive way. And I guess that probably the
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  Speaker 2: nicest thing. I know, it's a weird thing to say,
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  Speaker 2: but when I look at my own three kids, and
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  Speaker 2: I've got kids, you know, in all in their mid thirties,
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  Speaker 2: they've all got kids, one has two, one has three,
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  Speaker 2: one has two, and they're all doing pretty well. They
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  Speaker 2: do it in their own way and so and they're
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  Speaker 2: all they don't take advice from me, but they do
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  Speaker 2: listen as well, so which is could they probably take
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  Speaker 2: more practical parenting, advice from the from from their mother
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  Speaker 2: or my wife who is a terrific hands on parent.
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  Speaker 2: So and that's that's nice. And I've been able to
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  Speaker 2: sort of maintain that relationship, not in a dominating way,
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  Speaker 2: but they actually looked at some of the ideas which
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  Speaker 2: I've had and sort of put them into practice. So yeah,
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  Speaker 2: lots of things. It's very fortunate to be able to
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  Speaker 2: talk and write about something which is meaningful, something which
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  Speaker 2: is ethical, and something which probably leaves a legacy which
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  Speaker 2: I'll never see. But it's a nice thing. But most
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  Speaker 2: people in their jobs do a good job and they
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  Speaker 2: don't see the results of it as well. Because the
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  Speaker 2: person when you walk into the shop and you say
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  Speaker 2: something nice to them, if you're the shopkeeper and they
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  Speaker 2: walk out with a smile on their face, that's a
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  Speaker 2: trivic legacy as well. So we all want to sort
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  Speaker 2: of have a positive impact on others. So I guess
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  Speaker 2: that's the proudest thing. Michael. Our time is up.
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  Speaker 3: We need to wrap things up, but just before we do,
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  Speaker 3: thank you for sharing your experiences, your insights, your memories,
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  Speaker 3: your recollections of some thirty ish years of parent education.
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  Speaker 3: I mentioned at the beginning of the podcast, there's some
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  Speaker 3: major news that we were going to share at the
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  Speaker 3: conclusion of our conversation.
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  Speaker 2: Would you like to share it? Thank you? Justin I will.
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  Speaker 2: I began a company called Pounding Ideas ninety eight I
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  Speaker 2: think it was, and it's been my baby, my pride
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  Speaker 2: and joy. We've grown it over the years and we
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  Speaker 2: work a lot with school as well, so we have
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  Speaker 2: schools memberships as well as talking with mums and dads.
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  Speaker 2: And I've reached the stage and age in my life
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  Speaker 2: where it's time to move on and do other things.
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  Speaker 2: What do you do with Parenting Ideas? But what you
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  Speaker 2: do with Parenting Ideas, which has got a terrific name
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: for quality parenting education, is you look for someone who
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: has the experience, expertise and credibility to take it over.
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  Speaker 2: And that person happens to be the person who's running
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  Speaker 2: this podcast, which is doctor Justin Coulson. So yeah, we've
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  Speaker 2: been working together for a while to make this happen.
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  Speaker 2: So as of yesterday, Parenting Ideas is now under the
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  Speaker 2: auspices of doctor Justin Coulson. Is that the news you're
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  Speaker 2: talking about?
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  Speaker 3: I think that might be the news. Yeah, So what
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  Speaker 3: I really wanted to do was bring you on the
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  Speaker 3: podcast and celebrate the great work and the legacy that
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  Speaker 3: you've created for parents in this country. I actually haven't
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  Speaker 3: shared this in the conversation yet, but I was a
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  Speaker 3: high school graduate in nineteen ten, ninety three, and I
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  Speaker 3: still remember around about that time my mum going to
• 14:06
  Speaker 3: air an affair on the New South Wales Central Coast
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  Speaker 3: so that she could listen to a Michael Gross parenting
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  Speaker 3: seminar back in the early nineteen nineties, because I was
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  Speaker 3: giving hers so much grief obviously that she.
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  Speaker 2: Needed some help and help I believe that you were helpful.
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  Speaker 3: She came away and was grateful for the opportunity that
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  Speaker 3: she had to hear you and be involved. So you've
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  Speaker 3: actually been a part of my life and my family's
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  Speaker 3: experience since the nineteen nineties at the very least. So
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  Speaker 3: thank you for what you've done, thank you for the
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  Speaker 3: legacy I've left, and thanks for trusting me with the
• 14:36
  Speaker 3: opportunity to take on parenting ideas and see what we
• 14:39
  Speaker 3: can do to grow that and make it part of
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  Speaker 3: the happy family's family.
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  Speaker 2: That's a pleasure. Thank you. I'm glad I know that
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  Speaker 2: that ties things up, and that's what we talk about.
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  Speaker 2: You just don't know who's sitting there in an audience
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  Speaker 2: or reading your book or your article or whatever, who's
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  Speaker 2: been touched by it. So lovely. Thank you, Thank you, Justin.
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  Speaker 3: And to our Happy Families podcast audience. Be a little
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  Speaker 3: bit self indulgent to be sharing that news, and I
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  Speaker 3: hope that you'll join with me in celebrating what has
• 15:06
  Speaker 3: been a remarkable parenting education journey for Parenting Ideas and
• 15:12
  Speaker 3: Michael Gross really really honored and delighted to be able
• 15:15
  Speaker 3: to take on the role of running that as well
• 15:17
  Speaker 3: as Happy Families. As always, the Happy Families podcast is
• 15:21
  Speaker 3: produced by Justin Rulan.
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  Speaker 2: And the executive producer is Craig Bruce.
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  Speaker 3: If you'd like more info about making a family happier,
• 15:27
  Speaker 3: you can check out all the information that you need
• 15:29
  Speaker 3: at Parenting Ideas dot com dot a you or Happy
• 15:32
  Speaker 3: Families dot com dot au.