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Community DC WRAP · Community D.C.

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Good morning and welcome to another edition of Community DC.
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: I'm your host, Dennis Glasgow. This morning, we welcome back
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: to the program, Kurt Erickson. He is the president for
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: the Washington Regional Alcohol Program, also known as RAP. And
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: with Halloween just days away, we thought we'd be reminding
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: everybody about Sober Ride during the holiday and the latest
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: happenings from Kurt and his team at RAP. We cover
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: a lot of ground over the next 30 minutes with Kurt,
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: so I hope you enjoy the conversation as much as
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: I did.
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: Good morning, Kurt. Good morning. Thanks for having us on.
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: Happy Halloween, by the way.
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you too. It's right around the corner, and that's
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: why we have you on. And there's so much to
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: talk about over the next 30 minutes. I know a
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: lot of our listeners, since you've been a frequent guest
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: to Kurt on our Community DC program, but for the
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: ones who are being introduced to rap or maybe have
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: heard of rap and Sober Ride, just kind of in
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: the ether, give us the history. How did everything start out?
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: Well, first of all, Dennis, thanks for having us on
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: as often as you do.
• 0:56
  Speaker 3: It's a good opportunity to get the word out, especially
• 0:59
  Speaker 3: about a local and lifesaving group that's been around since 1982.
• 1:03
  Speaker 3: So celebrating its 44th this year called the Washington Regional
• 1:07
  Speaker 3: Alcohol Program, which is a public-private partnership working to prevent
• 1:11
  Speaker 3: drunk driving and underage drinking. We do this through public
• 1:15
  Speaker 3: education programs. innovative health education programs and advocacy. But I
• 1:20
  Speaker 3: think if we're known at all to the Metro Washington public,
• 1:24
  Speaker 3: it's through a safe ride service that you and I
• 1:26
  Speaker 3: have talked about.
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: Over the years.
• 1:28
  Speaker 3: And since we first started offering it in 1991, over
• 1:32
  Speaker 3: 100,000 people have used it, which is the DC Area
• 1:35
  Speaker 3: Sober Ride Program, a program that's designed to prevent drug
• 1:38
  Speaker 3: driving before it occurs and specifically offered on six different
• 1:41
  Speaker 3: holidays throughout the year, Halloween being one of them.
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: Right, and that's exactly why we have you on, so
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: we'll talk about that in just a moment. I was curious, Kurt,
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: as you talk to some of your peers around the country,
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: do they have similar programs? Is there a Soberide in
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: other markets?
• 1:56
  Speaker 3: Yeah, there's Soberide-like programs, and there's a couple that are
• 1:58
  Speaker 3: based specifically on ours, reserved as a consult.
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: That being, and.
• 2:03
  Speaker 3: I can't remember all the other names that they call themselves,
• 2:06
  Speaker 3: we have a trademark name under Soberide. But there's one
• 2:09
  Speaker 3: in Delaware, there's one in Hampton Roads, both of those
• 2:13
  Speaker 3: are Soberide. specific derivatives of the Sober Ride program. There's
• 2:17
  Speaker 3: a startup one that's happening in Richmond. And I think
• 2:20
  Speaker 3: the thought in all of those, no matter what the
• 2:22
  Speaker 3: market is, is that no matter how good your year-round
• 2:25
  Speaker 3: efforts might be on school-based programming and workplace programming and
• 2:30
  Speaker 3: stepped-up law enforcement to identify and apprehend drunk drivers, you've
• 2:34
  Speaker 3: still got to have a safety valve to these high-risk,
• 2:37
  Speaker 3: high-alcohol consumption periods, even if everything goes right during the year.
• 2:40
  Speaker 3: You just got to have the safety net in place,
• 2:42
  Speaker 3: and that's where SoberRide shines and where it exists.
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: Kerr, one of the things I've learned about talking to
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: you over the years is you mentioned this off the
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: top of your advocation for RAP and also SoberRide. Can
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: you talk a little bit about basically your boots on
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: the ground with your team? Because you'll go out and
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: talk to schools. You'll talk to businesses. I know you
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: had different events that we're going to talk about. There's
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: some law enforcement awards coming up, and also Maryland remembers
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: in mid-November that I also want to chat with you
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: about schools. But as far as education, how do you
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: go out there and get the word out? Yeah, so
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: we do it a couple different ways. For youth, which
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: we are trying to bring a pretty straightforward.
• 3:19
  Speaker 3: Message about the consequences of underage drinking and drunk driving.
• 3:23
  Speaker 3: And I say straightforward in the fact that we're not
• 3:25
  Speaker 3: relying on scare tactics.
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: We're not relying on simply putting a crash car in front.
• 3:30
  Speaker 3: Of a school and hoping that alone will have the
• 3:32
  Speaker 3: grand behavioral change that we seek.
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: We really want to educate high school.
• 3:37
  Speaker 3: Youth specifically, and that's our target group, on what the
• 3:40
  Speaker 3: consequences are, both the legal consequences, the economic consequences, the
• 3:45
  Speaker 3: physical consequences of drunk driving and underage drinking.
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: And so we reach as many as, I think it was.
• 3:52
  Speaker 3: 9,000 students last year in the Greenville, Washington area with
• 3:55
  Speaker 3: this free school-based programming. It's basically a 45-minute PowerPoint presentation
• 4:00
  Speaker 3: used with fatal vision goggles. These are the goggles that
• 4:02
  Speaker 3: you can wear that at least simulate what it's like
• 4:05
  Speaker 3: to be visually impaired by substances.
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: And then usually have them do some motor skill.
• 4:10
  Speaker 3: Event, whether they're driving a golf cart, whether they're shooting baskets,
• 4:13
  Speaker 3: whether it's corn hole, to really show what the impact
• 4:16
  Speaker 3: that alcohol can have. And then we do an exact
• 4:18
  Speaker 3: version of that, a little bit different focus, a little
• 4:22
  Speaker 3: bit more mature in workplaces. Believe it or not, traffic
• 4:25
  Speaker 3: crashes are still one of.
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: The leading causes of death in US workplaces.
• 4:29
  Speaker 3: So we have a program called Safe and Vital Employees
• 4:32
  Speaker 3: that we do in workplaces throughout the greater Washington area.
• 4:35
  Speaker 3: Both of those programs, I should say, are free. And
• 4:38
  Speaker 3: we can't do enough of them. Even though we reached
• 4:40
  Speaker 3: 9,000 students last year, we can even reach more. So
• 4:44
  Speaker 3: if anybody's out there interested and has a school or
• 4:47
  Speaker 3: workplace where they think you'd benefit from this, you can
• 4:50
  Speaker 3: look us up at WRAP.org. It's W-R-A-P.org, and it stands
• 4:53
  Speaker 3: for the Washington Regional Alcohol Program.
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: You know, staying on that topic, as I was researching
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: for our conversation today, and I'm always learning something from
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: you or what WRAP is doing or also the agencies
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: around the DMV, I did know that the D.C. Police
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: Department was doing something called wet labs. And this shouldn't
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: surprise me that they're doing it. But basically, they have
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: a building where people are simulated of either being high
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: on substance or drunk. And the police officers actually, as
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: an educational tool, get to work with them and do testing.
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: And I think that's brilliant to do because you can
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: only do so much out in the actual real time
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: with drivers. But to educate the officers, they have these
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: wet labs, which I thought was extraordinary to kind of
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: educate and also teach the police officers in D.C. how
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: to do it.
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and we're a partner in that effort.
• 5:39
  Speaker 3: So funding comes from the DC Highway Safety Office, which
• 5:42
  Speaker 3: is under DDOT in the district. They fund us as
• 5:46
  Speaker 3: a nonprofit, so we're a grantee of them. And what
• 5:49
  Speaker 3: we do is to do a couple of things. We've
• 5:51
  Speaker 3: both provided supplies for these things. When it involves alcohol,
• 5:55
  Speaker 3: it's called a wet lab. When it involves cannabis, it's
• 5:58
  Speaker 3: a green lab. But in both cases... And by the way,
• 6:01
  Speaker 3: the other thing that we do is we actually make
• 6:03
  Speaker 3: sure that volunteers that participate in this, that are willingly
• 6:07
  Speaker 3: getting dosed with either substance, are taken there safely through
• 6:11
  Speaker 3: our Lyft partnership with CellRide, and they're.
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: Taken home safely. Good, good, good to know. to make
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: sure that that goes full circle.
• 6:18
  Speaker 3: But the whole purpose of this is to give training
• 6:20
  Speaker 3: to law enforcement, in this case, the Metropolitan Police Department,
• 6:24
  Speaker 3: on their cadets and even continuing law enforcement officers on
• 6:28
  Speaker 3: how to conduct standard field sobriety tasks, what to look
• 6:32
  Speaker 3: for in terms of judging someone's sobriety and their impairment.
• 6:37
  Speaker 3: And that's where these things can absolutely shine. You're right.
• 6:40
  Speaker 3: It's it's difficult when you do it like through a
• 6:43
  Speaker 3: video or when you can imagine it, but when you're
• 6:45
  Speaker 3: actually working with dosed individuals of which there's.
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: Things that they cannot mask.
• 6:51
  Speaker 3: So for instance, one of the things you'll see is
• 6:54
  Speaker 3: that the pencil test of somebody moving their eye, and
• 6:57
  Speaker 3: there's a horizontal stagnant movement in your eye that will,
• 7:00
  Speaker 3: your eye will jitter as it goes into peripheral vision,
• 7:04
  Speaker 3: which shows a keen sense of impairment. You can't fake that.
• 7:07
  Speaker 3: You can't fake your way around that. And that's one
• 7:09
  Speaker 3: of the key signs.
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: That they look for amongst others.
• 7:12
  Speaker 3: And we're getting people that people are different BAC levels,
• 7:15
  Speaker 3: people have different tolerances. So this is really a great
• 7:18
  Speaker 3: training for law enforcement in their efforts to apprehend and
• 7:22
  Speaker 3: will identify and apprehend drug drivers.
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: Well, it's outstanding they do it, and it's outstanding that
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: you partner with them, and I think it's so smart
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: and real cool. I did want to circle back to
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: talk about numbers. I know that we don't have actually
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: any real-time, right-now numbers, but we can look over the
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: last couple years. But as I've learned from you, and
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: I was kind of researching a little bit about this,
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: and then you can check all my numbers, but it
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: seemed like in the DMV that fatalities have dropped dramatically recently.
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: as much as 26 percent and once again you can
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: correct me this is what it said on the internet
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: i went on a couple sites but i know injuries
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: and crashes are also up by a small percentage but
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: as you take a look at the latest data that
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: you have when it comes to impairment and driving what
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: are we looking at from fatalities and injuries and also
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: crashes what what's the latest Well, first.
• 8:08
  Speaker 3: Of all, your numbers are spot on, and they may
• 8:10
  Speaker 3: be derived from a report that we annually contract the
• 8:14
  Speaker 3: Metropolitan Washington Council of Governments to do.
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: It's called How Safe Are Roads?
• 8:18
  Speaker 3: And I want to say we've done it, I think
• 8:19
  Speaker 3: this is the 33rd year. But the latest report that
• 8:23
  Speaker 3: came out last December that had 2024 numbers in it
• 8:26
  Speaker 3: showed exactly what you said.
• 8:27
  Speaker 2: And I want to make sure that we don't hide
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: from the good news here, because there was indeed good news.
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: is that after two years of increasing drunk driving.
• 8:35
  Speaker 3: Deaths in the region, those fatalities actually went down, and
• 8:38
  Speaker 3: they went down by a whopping double-digit percentage of 26%.
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: That is the lead of the story. That's huge. We
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: don't bury that.
• 8:45
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, it's huge. Conversely, right behind that, you're absolutely right.
• 8:49
  Speaker 3: Drunk driving injuries, however, went up.
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: They went up 3.7%. Drunk driving crashes.
• 8:57
  Speaker 3: Of drunk driving arrests went down.
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: I think when people hear that, oh, there's less people
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: drinking and driving. I don't know that that's accurate.
• 9:03
  Speaker 3: I know that there are less men and women in
• 9:05
  Speaker 3: uniform looking for them.
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: And so that's a concern.
• 9:08
  Speaker 3: But they went down for the third consecutive year. But
• 9:13
  Speaker 3: they still arrested 8,710 persons for drunk driving just in
• 9:18
  Speaker 3: the greater Washington area, just in 2024, which equals a
• 9:22
  Speaker 3: drunk driving arrest somewhere in the DC area every 60 minutes.
• 9:26
  Speaker 3: I mean, you'd think that we should be able to
• 9:27
  Speaker 3: elect this problem. And no matter if those numbers have
• 9:30
  Speaker 3: gone down, that's still a staggering level.
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: You've got a DUI somewhere in the D.C.
• 9:36
  Speaker 3: Market.
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: Kurt, without giving away anything that you can't, when it
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: comes to actually having the stops in the DMV, how
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: do the agencies decide where to put them? I imagine
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: that it is purely on data, but also I'm sure
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: that when they see drinking and driving or some impairment
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: in driving, they also can decide, hey, listen, this is
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: an area that we need to look at. But how
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: do they decide where to put up stops?
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, no, it's hotspot areas. So it's where you, more
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: than not, it's usually areas.
• 10:04
  Speaker 3: That have a high incidence of either drug driving incidents,
• 10:07
  Speaker 3: including drug driving arrests. So it could be incidents in
• 10:10
  Speaker 3: terms of crashes, injuries, and even fatalities. So it's usually
• 10:14
  Speaker 3: a hotspot area. But in addition to that, they're also
• 10:18
  Speaker 3: making to look at these high profile, that sobriety checkpoints
• 10:22
  Speaker 3: are only as good as the number of people affected
• 10:24
  Speaker 3: by them.
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: That doesn't mean arrests.
• 10:26
  Speaker 3: You could have zero arrests and still have.
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: A very successful operation.
• 10:29
  Speaker 3: I think the best example of that is Fairfax County,
• 10:32
  Speaker 3: I don't know whether they still do it, but for years,
• 10:34
  Speaker 3: if they did a sobriety checkpoint on Route 50 somewhere,
• 10:38
  Speaker 3: like any other sobriety checkpoint, they count the number.
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: Of vehicles going through it.
• 10:42
  Speaker 3: That way, they can report that they canvassed.
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: 2,000, 3,000 vehicles, whatever it is.
• 10:47
  Speaker 3: But they'll also lay wires around the other direction of
• 10:49
  Speaker 3: the road. So if they're doing a sobriety checkpoint on
• 10:51
  Speaker 3: the westbound lanes of 50, on the eastbound, when people
• 10:54
  Speaker 3: are perhaps going into the city, they'll count those numbers
• 10:57
  Speaker 3: as well. And the reason is, is that you're hoping
• 10:59
  Speaker 3: people will see this. And by the way, they're hugely visible.
• 11:03
  Speaker 3: They're usually in.
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: Tandem with fire department and all of their lights.
• 11:07
  Speaker 3: That's many officers, many law enforcement vehicles, first responder vehicles.
• 11:11
  Speaker 3: And you're hoping that See that and think twice about
• 11:15
  Speaker 3: how they're going to get home, if they should designate
• 11:16
  Speaker 3: a sober driver, and so forth.
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: Roll to their plans to make sure that they're not
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: getting behind the wheel of a car in there.
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: I know that in both our industries, we have a
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: lot of acronyms out there, and everybody, of course, has
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: heard about DUI. driving under impairment. With that said, impairment
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: isn't booze anymore. And you and I know that very
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: well from all our discussions out there. And we've had
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: police officers that have talked about the different tools that
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: they have now to not only Notice that drivers could
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: be under the impairment of prescription drugs and also cannabis
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: or other illegal drugs. With that said, what kind of
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: data is starting to come in when it comes to
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: impairment beside alcohol when it comes to either prescription drugs
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: or non-prescription drugs that police officers have to deal with
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: when it comes to these stops?
• 12:08
  Speaker 3: Well, the first thing is it's probably not an either
• 12:09
  Speaker 3: or situation. And the fact that the majority of cases
• 12:12
  Speaker 3: are usually poly users.
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: They're both alcohol users and there are drug users and
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: more often than not, illicit drugs.
• 12:19
  Speaker 3: And so but the barrier. So there's plenty of information
• 12:22
  Speaker 3: on alcohol. You know, you've got this per se limit.
• 12:25
  Speaker 3: All but one state have a point zero eight per
• 12:27
  Speaker 3: se limit, meaning that if you're at that limit, no
• 12:29
  Speaker 3: matter what you're demonstrating, the fact is that you are
• 12:32
  Speaker 3: legally impaired. And so you don't have that universal statute
• 12:37
  Speaker 3: for drugs.
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: And yet, you know what?
• 12:39
  Speaker 3: We've got recreational marijuana legal in D.C., Maryland, and Virginia.
• 12:44
  Speaker 3: And Virginia is about to enter a marketplace situation next year,
• 12:48
  Speaker 3: which we think is only going to exacerbate the problem.
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: And by the way, that's not my opinion. I think
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: it was the Insurance Institute.
• 12:55
  Speaker 3: For Highway Safety that said the majority of states that
• 12:57
  Speaker 3: indeed approve recreational marijuana at minimum do indeed see an
• 13:02
  Speaker 3: increase in traffic crashes. And so the tools out there
• 13:06
  Speaker 3: are just in development now. One of the things is
• 13:09
  Speaker 3: an oral fluid test, which rather than a breath test
• 13:12
  Speaker 3: or a blood test or even a urine test, that
• 13:15
  Speaker 3: will show you what somebody consumed or sued the level
• 13:17
  Speaker 3: of somebody's.
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: Impairment in terms of alcohol.
• 13:20
  Speaker 3: And a oral fluid test is much more quick to
• 13:23
  Speaker 3: be able to determine that. You also have drug recognition experts,
• 13:27
  Speaker 3: which are law enforcement that are specifically trained to look
• 13:29
  Speaker 3: for certain drug impairment levels.
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: But the bigger issue is the amount of officers that
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: are out there, the tools.
• 13:36
  Speaker 3: That they have, and then you have the dreaded panel
• 13:40
  Speaker 3: of what they're looking for. In other words, quite often
• 13:42
  Speaker 3: than not, because of costs, If you get alcohol impairment,
• 13:46
  Speaker 3: they stop there. In other words, if you've got somebody
• 13:48
  Speaker 3: driving at a 0.12, they'll stop there. That's enough for
• 13:52
  Speaker 3: a charging document. That's enough to go forward. And they're
• 13:54
  Speaker 3: not looking closer than that if there's other drugs that
• 13:57
  Speaker 3: are involved. Sometimes, when you have a drug panel, it
• 13:59
  Speaker 3: does include all the drugs that are out there. And
• 14:02
  Speaker 3: you can imagine, with manufacturing of drugs, you almost have
• 14:05
  Speaker 3: to change it every single year. And so is there
• 14:08
  Speaker 3: enough cost in municipal dollars to be able to do that?
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: And then lastly, there's drugs that you just don't think about.
• 14:14
  Speaker 3: Until recently, in the District of Columbia, it was 20%
• 14:18
  Speaker 3: or 22% of those, and this is in the last
• 14:20
  Speaker 3: two years, 20% or 22% of those tested for having
• 14:26
  Speaker 3: their blood test for driving impaired tested positive, not for cannabis,
• 14:31
  Speaker 3: not for alcohol, not for fentanyl, but for PCP. So
• 14:35
  Speaker 3: as much as you think that PCP isn't around anymore,
• 14:39
  Speaker 3: it's not making that surge. you have one out of
• 14:42
  Speaker 3: five persons that are being tested of showing positive for
• 14:46
  Speaker 3: the use of PCP. So, yeah, so this is, you know,
• 14:49
  Speaker 3: the whole industry of drug-impaired driving and its detection is
• 14:53
  Speaker 3: still very much in the infancy, but it will catch
• 14:55
  Speaker 3: up at one point. But right now, seemingly, if you've
• 14:58
  Speaker 3: got alcohol in your system, it's mostly polyusers. Those are
• 15:03
  Speaker 3: getting busted, but they usually stop at alcohol once they
• 15:05
  Speaker 3: get a certain low.
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: Boy, that is absolutely extraordinary. And I'm curious, I'm sure
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: that you hear about this and It's 2026, so technology
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: is moving very fast. And now that we have AI,
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: I imagine that there are probably some people working on
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: machinery out there, actual devices that will be able to
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: test people out. Is something being like soft launched anywhere?
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: Do they have the actual technology to test when it
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: comes to certain kind of drugs right now that are
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: outside of the alcohol region?
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a great question. And it is being developed.
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: I don't think it's being pioneered anywhere yet in the D.C., Maryland,
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: and Virginia area.
• 15:40
  Speaker 3: But at the end of the day, that will be
• 15:41
  Speaker 3: the solution, not just a matter of detection, but as
• 15:44
  Speaker 3: a matter of prevention.
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: You and I have talked about the use of ignition
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: interlocks in.
• 15:47
  Speaker 3: Vehicles, that these are these in-car breathalyzers that if it
• 15:51
  Speaker 3: senses that the driver's been drinking, will prevent that car
• 15:55
  Speaker 3: from being operable.
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: And I think the same thing is going to happen
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: at some point. with drugs.
• 16:01
  Speaker 3: And again, you'd like to think that human behavior could
• 16:04
  Speaker 3: win over all this and the logic of not getting
• 16:06
  Speaker 3: behind the wheel of a car impaired, but that clearly
• 16:09
  Speaker 3: hasn't worked out yet. So at the end of the day,
• 16:11
  Speaker 3: it's clearly going to be technology that's going to win
• 16:14
  Speaker 3: the day. But even to launch something out in a
• 16:16
  Speaker 3: fleet vehicle way, what is the average vehicle right now
• 16:19
  Speaker 3: in the US, like 12 years old? So you can
• 16:21
  Speaker 3: imagine that if you rolled something out, if it was
• 16:23
  Speaker 3: available in all cars, it's going to be a couple
• 16:26
  Speaker 3: of decades before this is really going to gain traction.
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: You know, I like you. I think everybody's frustrated that
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: every state has a different legal limit. I'm curious because
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: I really don't know. And I hope I'm not catching
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: you off guard. But how close are D.C., Maryland, Virginia
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: to where the law says that you're impaired? Are they close?
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: No, that's a good question.
• 16:45
  Speaker 3: So D.C., Maryland, Virginia have a lot of things in
• 16:47
  Speaker 3: common and some things that divide them.
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: So they all have a point zero eight difference.
• 16:52
  Speaker 3: Level by which to be deemed to be per se impaired,
• 16:56
  Speaker 3: meaning everybody's impaired at that level. Maryland, in addition, has
• 16:59
  Speaker 3: a 0.07 level, which is driving under the influence. And
• 17:04
  Speaker 3: then you have the.
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: Penalties that mix. So for instance, whether.
• 17:10
  Speaker 3: You're in DC, Maryland, or Virginia, Depending on where you are,
• 17:15
  Speaker 3: you're looking at fines for a first year, first time
• 17:17
  Speaker 3: offense and up to $ 2, 500, up to a year in
• 17:20
  Speaker 3: jail and having your license taken away for a year.
• 17:23
  Speaker 3: In addition, DC, Maryland, Virginia all have that requirement of
• 17:26
  Speaker 3: ignition analogs. So again, it doesn't matter whether it's your
• 17:28
  Speaker 3: first defense or your 31st defense. If you get convicted
• 17:31
  Speaker 3: of a DUI in the District of Columbia, Maryland, or Virginia,
• 17:34
  Speaker 3: You have to put an ignition airlock, these in-car breathalyzers
• 17:38
  Speaker 3: in your car, which again will prevent anybody from operating
• 17:40
  Speaker 3: your vehicle if it senses.
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: That the driver's been drinking. And that's universal.
• 17:45
  Speaker 3: The things that aren't universal is that DC and Maryland
• 17:48
  Speaker 3: are outliers in the fact that they're one of the
• 17:50
  Speaker 3: rare localities.
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: That don't have a felony level charge for a DUI.
• 17:55
  Speaker 3: In other words, in Virginia right now, if you get
• 17:57
  Speaker 3: three DUIs and you get a subsequent one, you're looking
• 18:00
  Speaker 3: at a felony level DUI, which has a whole level
• 18:03
  Speaker 3: of consequences, including vehicle forfeiture, which is an interesting penalty
• 18:09
  Speaker 3: where you're actually physically separating the drunk driver from his
• 18:12
  Speaker 3: or her vehicle.
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: Maryland and Virginia don't have that.
• 18:15
  Speaker 3: Conversely, Virginia doesn't have a primary seatbelt bill, and that's
• 18:19
  Speaker 3: an important nexus with drunk driving, and so many drunk
• 18:21
  Speaker 3: drivers don't buckle up.
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: But they also don't have an open container law.
• 18:26
  Speaker 3: And they annually move millions of dollars from highway construction
• 18:29
  Speaker 3: to safety, which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but because
• 18:34
  Speaker 3: they're not federally compliant, meaning that it is illegal to
• 18:37
  Speaker 3: drink with an open container in Virginia.
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: You're not able to sip through it.
• 18:40
  Speaker 3: Sip it, or consume it, and law enforcement isn't able
• 18:43
  Speaker 3: to see you sip.
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: It without being a violation. But it is legal to
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: have an open container of alcohol in your bar. I
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: don't know why I'm saying this at this point.
• 18:51
  Speaker 3: I feel like I'm giving out news that people can do,
• 18:53
  Speaker 3: but it's really telling people what not to do. But
• 18:56
  Speaker 3: the fact of the matter is that they're long overdue
• 18:58
  Speaker 3: from having a law against it.
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: No, it's great. And by the way, it wouldn't be
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: one of our conversation if I didn't invoke my TikTok viewing,
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: because in my algorithm, I'm always watching cops pull over
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: people that are drinking and driving. And sometimes it can
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: be comical and sometimes it can be, I can't believe
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: this person's behind a wheel. You may not know this.
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: And I was curious, but I watched this one person
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: and I don't know what state it was in, but
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: they weren't driving, but they were intoxicated and they were
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: in their car, I guess, trying to sleep it off
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: or rest. And this officer said, we can still arrest
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: you for this. And they did their whole interrogation. Is
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: that a thing where if you're impaired and you're still
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: in your car behind the wheel, but you're not driving,
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: that still can be an offense?
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: It can be.
• 19:37
  Speaker 3: The more common definition is if you are in operation
• 19:42
  Speaker 3: of your vehicle. So that more often than not is somebody,
• 19:45
  Speaker 3: the classic cases of Virginia, the Supreme Court law there
• 19:49
  Speaker 3: is somebody that, you know, engage their vehicle either to
• 19:52
  Speaker 3: listen to the radio, put the heat on in the winter.
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: And are you exercising control of your vehicle? The Supreme
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: Court has said yes.
• 20:00
  Speaker 3: In the same way that sometimes you hear the stories
• 20:02
  Speaker 3: anecdotally of people, Well, I say anecdotally, but there's case
• 20:06
  Speaker 3: law about it, where a passenger is reaching over and exercising.
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: Control of the wheel.
• 20:12
  Speaker 3: It's for some reason or other, whether they're joking, right,
• 20:15
  Speaker 3: or they're both impaired, and the passenger gets charged with
• 20:18
  Speaker 3: driving under the influence. Oh, wow.
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: I didn't know that. That's incredible. Well, listen, there's a
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: couple of big events that I want to talk about.
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: Maryland Remembers is coming up in mid-November that I want
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: you to highlight because that is a really big deal.
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: And then also you have your annual law enforcement awards
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: that are happening in, I believe, the second week in December.
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: Can you talk about those coming up?
• 20:36
  Speaker 3: Yep. So the Maryland Remembrance Event, and we'll do this
• 20:38
  Speaker 3: in chronological order, that's Thursday, November 12th at 11 a.m.
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: In Towson.
• 20:42
  Speaker 3: This is done by the Maryland Highway Safety Office. RAP
• 20:47
  Speaker 3: serves as the project director of it, so.
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: We actually implement it.
• 20:50
  Speaker 3: But for the last 23 years, and this will be
• 20:52
  Speaker 3: the 23rd year, that honors Marylanders who have lost their
• 20:56
  Speaker 3: lives in motor vehicle crashes, and at the same time,
• 20:59
  Speaker 3: calling for safety during the then upcoming holiday season, that.
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: Being Thanksgiving through New Year.
• 21:04
  Speaker 3: So it's a very solemn event, equal participation from both victims,
• 21:10
  Speaker 3: but also law enforcement. And it really is a touching ceremony.
• 21:13
  Speaker 3: We've had the benefit of having either the Lieutenant Governor
• 21:16
  Speaker 3: of Maryland or the Governor over the years of this event,
• 21:20
  Speaker 3: And it's just, I cannot recommend it more. It is just,
• 21:23
  Speaker 3: and again, it doesn't have to be a drunk driving crash.
• 21:25
  Speaker 3: It could be a crash overall, but that is something
• 21:27
  Speaker 3: where you can find out that at Zero Desk, let
• 21:31
  Speaker 3: me start where it's at, Zero Desk, Maryland. If you
• 21:33
  Speaker 3: just look up Maryland Remembers, it'll come up. And if
• 21:36
  Speaker 3: anybody wants to know, they can find it on our
• 21:38
  Speaker 3: website as well.
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: The other event is our own law enforcement awards, which
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: is that this will be the 29th year for this.
• 21:44
  Speaker 3: Which is that the nonprofit rent, we realize that no
• 21:48
  Speaker 3: matter how good sober ride numbers might be or school
• 21:51
  Speaker 3: or workplace numbers might be, that it's law enforcement that
• 21:54
  Speaker 3: are serving as the front lines in.
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: The local fight against drunk driving.
• 21:57
  Speaker 3: And so we annually recognize them on a law enforcement
• 22:01
  Speaker 3: award ceremony. It's a 200 person event. This year, it's
• 22:04
  Speaker 3: gonna be conducted on December 11th.
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: It's a morning event.
• 22:08
  Speaker 3: It's gonna be conducted in Tysons. That's also on our website.
• 22:11
  Speaker 3: at rep.org. And we annually honor, I think it's 17
• 22:15
  Speaker 3: different law enforcement agencies from around the Beltway from serving
• 22:18
  Speaker 3: in this effort. Sometimes it's the person that made the
• 22:20
  Speaker 3: most arrests. Sometimes it's the trainer of those people. We've
• 22:23
  Speaker 3: had cadets and their role in sobriety checkpoints. We've had
• 22:27
  Speaker 3: helicopter crews. We've had administrators, but you realize that it
• 22:32
  Speaker 3: really takes a village within the law enforcement community to
• 22:36
  Speaker 3: pull off these efforts and to be successful. It's also
• 22:38
  Speaker 3: honoring those lives that have been lost. And we do
• 22:42
  Speaker 3: that in a very solemn way as well. We realize
• 22:45
  Speaker 3: that law enforcement is a dangerous job. At the same point,
• 22:47
  Speaker 3: it's a lifesaving job. So it's a population that's worthy
• 22:50
  Speaker 3: of recognition.
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: And thanks.
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's wonderful you're doing that with the acknowledgement. I'm curious,
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: you may or may not know, but when a police
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: officer is on DUI duty with one of the checkpoints,
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: is that, and I know they have many different jobs,
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: but is that a regular thing they do? Or do
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: you do it for a couple of weeks and then
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: they pull off and put in new people? Every agency
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: is probably different, but how does it work in general?
• 23:13
  Speaker 3: Every agency is different, but there are DUI squads, and
• 23:16
  Speaker 3: those are ones that specifically.
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: Do nothing but that.
• 23:19
  Speaker 3: Now, you have one of the better examples is Fairfax County,
• 23:21
  Speaker 3: where I think it's a nine, 10-person squad, inclusive of
• 23:25
  Speaker 3: two supervisors that are deployed during certain times that do
• 23:28
  Speaker 3: nothing but looking.
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: For law enforcement. I mean, looking for impaired drivers.
• 23:33
  Speaker 3: And then conversely, what was more in the news recently
• 23:36
  Speaker 3: is that Maryland has had a DUI task force that
• 23:39
  Speaker 3: has become somewhat, what's the word I'm looking for, put
• 23:43
  Speaker 3: out to pasture, for lack of a better word. It's
• 23:46
  Speaker 3: still going to be activated during two times a year,
• 23:48
  Speaker 3: but it was something that was activated on.
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: A number of summer months, on a number of different holidays.
• 23:53
  Speaker 3: And reasons that they're stating is staffing. We realize that
• 23:58
  Speaker 3: when DUI numbers are down, so too are staffing at
• 24:01
  Speaker 3: local law enforcement agencies.
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: And you've got to be staffed up. They've got to
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: be resourced. But it's a tough environment to recruit people
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: to law enforcement. It's a tough environment to work in.
• 24:11
  Speaker 3: But we're going to They need to make sure that
• 24:13
  Speaker 3: they're adequately staffed because, again, people drink and drive because
• 24:17
  Speaker 3: they can. And the fact of the matter is we
• 24:20
  Speaker 3: need to make sure that law enforcement is out there
• 24:22
  Speaker 3: to at.
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: Least give them the fear that they will get caught.
• 24:25
  Speaker 3: And again, when you have almost 9000 persons that are
• 24:27
  Speaker 3: arrested just in the D.C. area every year, the odds
• 24:30
  Speaker 3: really are against you. Even with short staff law enforcement departments,
• 24:34
  Speaker 3: I mean, the.
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: Net is tight.
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: I wanted to pivot back to advocation because you mentioned
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: that a couple times. And people may not know, but
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: you're always talking to different politicians and different agencies. And
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: I know you're also frustrated by certain laws out there,
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: especially when you have to work with three different states
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: within your purview. But with that said, when it comes
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: to advocation, what are you working on right now? What
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: do you hope to work on that maybe you want
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: to change that we don't know about right now?
• 25:01
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so I think in Maryland, in fact, I just
• 25:04
  Speaker 3: had a meeting about it today, is that we're going
• 25:06
  Speaker 3: to be looking again at toughening some of the more,
• 25:12
  Speaker 3: the stringent laws in Maryland as they affect DUI offenders
• 25:15
  Speaker 3: in terms of repeat DUI offenders.
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: And the more egregious ones, the ones that are involved
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: in crashes.
• 25:21
  Speaker 3: And so there's been an effort the last two years
• 25:23
  Speaker 3: that unfortunately has failed, that has tried to increase the
• 25:27
  Speaker 3: maximum periods of imprisonment for persons convicted of vehicular manslaughter,
• 25:32
  Speaker 3: especially for persons that have been found guilty of that,
• 25:35
  Speaker 3: and they were previously convicted of DUI.
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: And so there hasn't been an appetite for that in
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: Annapolis yet.
• 25:41
  Speaker 3: I think the tack this year is to do the
• 25:44
  Speaker 3: same thing, but don't focus on the maximum periods of imprisonment.
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: Just try to.
• 25:48
  Speaker 3: Get the crime of involuntary manslaughter, vehicular manslaughter, as a
• 25:53
  Speaker 3: violent crime. When you list it as a violent crime,
• 25:55
  Speaker 3: I do not know why it's not listed as a
• 25:57
  Speaker 3: violent crime now. But if you can get it listed
• 25:59
  Speaker 3: as a violent crime, you're going to get more stern
• 26:02
  Speaker 3: penalties for that. There was also a bill that didn't
• 26:04
  Speaker 3: get attention this year in Annapolis that I would love
• 26:06
  Speaker 3: to have come back up. I'd be surprised if it did, however,
• 26:09
  Speaker 3: because it never got out of committee. But it was
• 26:12
  Speaker 3: very interesting to us, and it was worthy of our support.
• 26:14
  Speaker 3: It would have required alcohol or drug testing for all
• 26:17
  Speaker 3: drivers involved in crashes that result in death or a
• 26:20
  Speaker 3: life-threatening injury. And so when you talked earlier about testing
• 26:24
  Speaker 3: and whether people are under the influence of drugs or
• 26:25
  Speaker 3: alcohol or whether it's not obvious, this would make it obvious.
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: The results would make it obvious, and that would be great.
• 26:32
  Speaker 3: In Virginia, what we are in a position of is
• 26:34
  Speaker 3: there is an appetite for certain things, but it's not
• 26:37
  Speaker 3: always good things. And the fact that we actually— our pride
• 26:40
  Speaker 3: this year was actually helping to secure a rare governor veto.
• 26:46
  Speaker 3: There was legislation that would look to dismiss outright, to
• 26:51
  Speaker 3: give judges the ability to dismiss outright, even under prosecutorial objection,
• 26:57
  Speaker 3: a DUI charge. And that's not something that has happened
• 27:01
  Speaker 3: to date without the input of the Commonwealth attorneys.
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: This actually passed both the House and the Senate. It
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: was going to the.
• 27:08
  Speaker 3: Governor's office, and the governor back on April 14th vetoed
• 27:13
  Speaker 3: the bill. But I think that might be coming up
• 27:15
  Speaker 3: for another day. In addition, as I mentioned, at some point,
• 27:18
  Speaker 3: Virginia's got to wrestle. With primary seatbelt legislation, yes, there's
• 27:23
  Speaker 3: a nexus with drunk driving, of course, but even without
• 27:25
  Speaker 3: that nexus, the amount of lives that could be saved
• 27:29
  Speaker 3: when the majority of states indeed have this, and certainly
• 27:31
  Speaker 3: Maryland and.
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: DC have it.
• 27:34
  Speaker 3: I think it'll open to Taylor at some point as well.
• 27:36
  Speaker 3: And again, there's a new governor in that state. There's
• 27:38
  Speaker 3: a new secretary of transportation. And I think there's an
• 27:42
  Speaker 3: opportunity here to look to see what they might be
• 27:45
  Speaker 3: interested in.
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: Hey, Kurt, we have about a minute and a half left.
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: And I want to give Sober Ride one more spotlight
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: because I want to make sure people take advantage of
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: it during Halloween. At the time of the airing of
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: the interview, we're less than a week away. So on Halloween,
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: how do people take advantage of Sober Ride and how
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: do they activate it?
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: So it's really easy.
• 28:02
  Speaker 3: First of all, this free safe ride service is going
• 28:03
  Speaker 3: to be available not just on Halloween, which is Saturday,
• 28:06
  Speaker 3: October 31st, but on the Friday night before.
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: So from 10 p.m. to 4 a.m.
• 28:11
  Speaker 3: On Friday night, October 30th, and on Saturday, October 31st,
• 28:15
  Speaker 3: we're going to be offering free safe rides home to
• 28:17
  Speaker 3: persons that are celebrating in the D.C. area.
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: They're celebrating with alcohol. We'll pay up to a $ 15
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: fare home. The majority of our rides are.
• 28:24
  Speaker 3: Under $ 15. All you need to do to get information
• 28:27
  Speaker 3: is go to soberride.com. It's also the name of the program.
• 28:33
  Speaker 3: We'll put the codes up there at 9 o'clock on
• 28:36
  Speaker 3: both days. So at Friday and Thursday. Friday at 9 o'clock,
• 28:42
  Speaker 3: we'll put a code. You put that code into your
• 28:44
  Speaker 3: left app. You can get a free ride home. We'll
• 28:46
  Speaker 3: do the same thing on Saturday. This is a holiday
• 28:49
  Speaker 3: where almost a third of traffic fatalities involve drunk drivers.
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: And when you start talking about young drivers.
• 28:56
  Speaker 3: 21 to 34-year-olds, 54% of persons that age that were
• 29:01
  Speaker 3: killed on Halloween involve drunk drivers. So this is a
• 29:04
  Speaker 3: serious holiday to offer this type of safety net, and
• 29:07
  Speaker 3: it will be in place again both on Friday and
• 29:09
  Speaker 3: Saturday night.
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: Okay, and to be very clear, too, also, it goes
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: exclusively through the Lyft app, correct?
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: Yep, it goes through the Lyft app, entire D.C.
• 29:17
  Speaker 3: Area, so Montgomery County, Prince George County, the District of Columbia, Arlington, Fairfax, Loudoun,
• 29:21
  Speaker 3: and Prince William. And last October, we had a record-shattering,
• 29:25
  Speaker 3: over 4,000.
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: People utilize this program.
• 29:28
  Speaker 3: Huge. It's the most we've ever had for a single
• 29:30
  Speaker 3: sobering campaign, and the program's 35-year history. I don't think
• 29:33
  Speaker 3: we'll replicate that again.
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: That's also hard to afford.
• 29:37
  Speaker 3: I think one of the things that you and I
• 29:38
  Speaker 3: have talked about Silver has become institutionalized, and I think
• 29:42
  Speaker 3: people think it's a big faceless government behemoth paying for it,
• 29:45
  Speaker 3: when in fact it's a three-person charitable organization that strokes
• 29:48
  Speaker 3: the check for this. So I doubt we'll see those
• 29:51
  Speaker 3: numbers again, but it is a popular time to offer
• 29:54
  Speaker 3: this local and life-saving service.
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: Outstanding.
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: Kurt, thanks again for joining us on Community DC. We
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: really appreciate it.
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: Dennis, happy Halloween.