Latest / The Starfish Storytellers / Season 5, Episode 6: The Problem of Maria - Poetry, Identity, and the Power of Being Seen with Pilar Quintana

Transcript

Season 5, Episode 6: The Problem of Maria - Poetry, Identity, and the Power of Being Seen with Pilar Quintana · The Starfish Storytellers

0:00
Welcome to the starfish storytellers the podcast
0:03
that makes a difference one story at a time by
0:05
bringing storytelling to life The problem of
0:09
Maria I've spent my life trying to solve for
0:14
X Hispanic child born into a world divided into
0:19
male and female Seeking the solution that will
0:22
put me back together My model is androgynous
0:27
fusion of form or amorphous, the formula of formlessness.
0:34
I am anthropomorphous. Those who cry redundancy
0:39
are not Hispanic, have not spent their lives
0:42
affirming one gender over the other, describing
0:45
themselves as others see them, puzzling the evidence
0:48
that not all forces repel, sensing the magnetic
0:52
pull of the poles, the measureless singularity
0:55
of humanness. The genderless objects I anthropomorphize.
1:02
When my parents immigrated, they changed their
1:04
names, became pronounceable. Miguel became Michael.
1:10
Eli became Maria. I too became Maria. Maria.
1:17
Virgin, mother, queen, woman. Every girl, child
1:22
in the family. Maria of mercy, Maria of sorrows,
1:27
of charity, conception, Maria standing on a pillar.
1:32
We went in vain by our second names. I did not
1:37
like the name. It was a school time necessity,
1:41
a moniker to introduce me to strangers. I learned
1:45
to disassociate. I learned the geometry of gender.
1:50
Sets called girls and boys were closed and I
1:54
was bracketed. The curriculum did not allow for
1:57
fluctuations. I learned that I was jealous of
2:02
tomboy's because they were more male than I.
2:06
I learned that male meant climbing trees and
2:09
dominating sports. I read mysteries and stayed
2:13
up late solving for acts. I took a job at a university.
2:19
I admit the bride said appeal, shrugged off my
2:22
skirt, slipped on instead a name in slacks and
2:27
button -down shirt. A chameleon takes on its
2:31
surroundings. I forgot that I was not Maria,
2:35
forgot I was chameleon. The identifier long disdained
2:40
wrapped herself around my body. No longer skirt
2:44
disguised as uniform stripped away each night.
2:47
She infused my form, taught me to regard how
2:51
others moved, laughed, discoursed in academic
2:55
circles, taught my voice to speak her words,
3:00
made me pronounceable, say it soft, it's almost
3:05
like praying. I became persona and personified
3:10
her. It was disconcertedly easy. In that world
3:15
-renowned bastion of intellectual pursuits where
3:17
denizens came and went with semesters, my fellows
3:20
said, Maria will always be here. Maria stared
3:27
back in the mirror, answered in my voice. Hers
3:29
was the outline in the shadow I cast. My clothes
3:33
could not contain her. Only I could do that.
3:38
Solve for X. There is a line between what I know
3:42
to be true and what I accept that others believe.
3:46
And try though I made emerge sets, the problem
3:49
of duality remains. I behave as if, as if contenta
3:56
and contento mean the same thing, and Ms. is
3:59
just polite address, and a ponytail won't feminize
4:02
me any more than Johnny Depp. I behave as if
4:07
a closed set does not contain boundaries, and
4:10
I exist whether or not I am observed. and the
4:13
difference between X and Y is nonexistent. Although
4:18
some would say that is skirting the issue. I
4:22
don't wear skirts. Somewhere one must draw a
4:26
line and cross it when solving for X. and welcome
4:43
to the Starfish Storytellers. I'm the CEO of
4:46
the Black Dog Group and your host. I'm passionate
4:49
about storytelling and on a mission to raise
4:51
up the next generation of storytellers. We're
4:54
called the Starfish Storytellers after the moral
4:57
of the Starfish story, which centers on the power
4:59
of one. Because no matter how big the challenge,
5:02
every action matters. One step, one starfish,
5:06
and one story at a time. Every episode, we'll
5:09
welcome a new storyteller who will inspire and
5:11
connect with you. So thanks for tuning in. Now
5:14
let's get started. Today's episode is The Problem
5:18
of Maria, Poetry, Identity, and the Power of
5:22
Being Seen. And with me today is Pilar Quintana.
5:26
Pilar is a multidisciplinary artist, poet, and
5:30
educator whose work spans painting, photography,
5:33
music, and performance, but at the heart of it
5:36
all is storytelling through language and expression.
5:40
Recognized as a Renaissance person, Pilar brings
5:43
a deeply personal and creative approach to exploring
5:45
identity, emotion, and human experience. This
5:49
episode is deeply personal for me because in
5:52
addition to being our guest today, Pilar is also
5:56
my cousin, actually in many ways more like my
5:59
sibling. So it's really special for me to have
6:02
them here for this conversation. As someone who
6:06
has many close family members who identify as
6:08
part of the LGBTQ plus community, creating spaces
6:12
for these stories and for the people who tell
6:15
them matters to me. As a poet, Pilar uses language
6:21
not just to tell stories, but to create space
6:24
for reflection, for complexity. For identities
6:28
that don't always fit neatly into traditional
6:31
definitions, their work invites us to slow down,
6:34
to listen differently, and to engage with stories
6:38
in a more nuanced and meaningful way. Pilar also
6:42
plays an active role in the arts community, helping
6:44
others find their voices and express their own
6:47
stories through creative mediums, fostering environments
6:51
that are inclusive, thoughtful, and deeply human.
6:55
So welcome to the Starfish storytellers. Prima,
6:57
I'm really happy you're here. I am so thrilled
7:01
to be here, Prima. So Pilar, we start every episode
7:06
with our guests introducing themselves. So do
7:09
you care to share a bit more about who you are
7:12
in your own words? Sure. So I am a queer and
7:17
genderqueer Cuban -American poet and artist.
7:20
I'm currently the vice president of the Arts
7:22
Institute Group of the Merrimack Valley, and
7:25
I'm also a member of the Great Court Poets. Those
7:28
who are listening who live in the New England
7:30
area might have heard me read or give presentations
7:33
at various libraries or colleges or at the Mass
7:36
Poetry Festival. And on a more personal note,
7:42
so I've always been interested in identity and
7:45
self -expression and rather kind of obsessed
7:48
with it really. So I find I think about it constantly.
7:51
I'm very conscious of how I'm perceived or how
7:55
others perceive me. and that whole existential
7:58
question of to what degree we intrinsically are
8:02
or create ourselves and to what degree we're
8:06
created by taking on the perceptions of others
8:09
and what they would like us to be. As a Latinx
8:13
child of immigrants and someone who has never
8:17
identified as the female that others expect me
8:19
to be, I think it was probably very natural.
8:23
that from as far back as I can remember I saw
8:26
myself as other and I became rather fascinated
8:30
both with examining what otherness means and
8:34
finding ways to communicate with the rest of
8:35
the world with those who are not other who might
8:38
not really understand what it means or what it
8:42
feels like to be me. I wanted to be seen and
8:48
I found that poetry and art are great languages
8:51
to express things like cross -culturally, poetry
8:54
expresses feelings. So they might not understand
8:58
what it's like to be me, but I can show them
9:00
how it feels. Yeah. I mean, thank you for sharing
9:06
your, your poem. We, I heard it the first time
9:10
when we were together doing a storytelling workshop
9:13
at a local library. And I felt that my first
9:18
thought was where have I been all this time that
9:20
I didn't know. who they were. I think that is
9:23
a lot of courage on your part to put your story
9:27
in that poem that way. And I think that's the
9:30
big part of storytelling in these spaces, in
9:34
the LGBTQ spaces, is to open up that space for
9:38
folks to be able to express who they are, because
9:41
it just isn't easy. You know, storytelling doesn't
9:44
always follow this linear path. And as you know,
9:48
doesn't always fit into familiar structures.
9:51
at least the way society has compartmentalized
9:57
it into two genders. And sometimes it lives in
10:00
fragments and rhythm and language, and it feels
10:02
more like emotion than explanation. Poetry has
10:07
a unique ability to hold complexity and to make
10:10
space for identity, for contradiction, and for
10:13
experiences that... don't always have a clear
10:15
definition. And doing so, like we said, it's
10:18
going to allow people not just to be heard, but
10:20
to be seen in a way that feels authentic and
10:22
whole. And I'm looking forward to hearing you
10:24
talk a little bit more about how to guide people
10:28
in that form of storytelling through poetry.
10:32
So we live in a world where it often is asking
10:35
people to simplify who they are in these moments.
10:38
I feel that your work is reminding us that there's
10:42
power in embracing the full story. And even when
10:46
it's not always going to resolve neatly in a
10:48
little box. And that kind of storytelling can
10:51
be incredibly meaningful, especially for those
10:54
who are still trying to find the words for themselves.
11:00
You know, I heard something really interesting
11:03
about poetry recently. I can't remember exactly
11:06
where I wish I could. It was a podcast or an
11:09
audio book that I was listening to, and it was
11:11
actually about anxiety and neurology. So the
11:15
speaker was explaining how poetry actually reduces
11:18
activity in the amygdala, which is that response
11:21
part of the brain there, the fight or flight
11:23
part of the brain, which is responsible for emotions,
11:28
including anxiety and fear. They were saying
11:30
how poetry promotes relaxation because They would
11:35
say the part of the brain, right, that deals
11:38
with language actually shuts down when a person
11:41
experiences trauma. And then we have that expression,
11:44
you know, there are no words, like when we're
11:46
overcome and stuff. And they're saying that was
11:47
very accurate because they said there are no
11:50
words. The language center shuts down. And when
11:54
one listens to poetry, which uses symbolism and
11:58
imagery, it actually calms you down. So it helps
12:01
you process those emotions that there are no
12:04
words for. Like it actually helps you feel safe
12:07
and whole when you express. I think one of the
12:13
things I'd love to hear from you is because we
12:17
talked about this in the workshop about I think
12:19
sometimes when people think poetry, they think
12:21
sort of very rigid definition. And I think what
12:26
you were conveying in the class was that it's
12:29
not, that's not true. That there are types of
12:33
poetry, there's types of poetry, but just try
12:35
it. Like just do it. You know, you don't have
12:37
to not do it because so worried about the rigid
12:41
box that poetry needs to fit into. Yeah. I mean,
12:44
I totally agree. There are many different types
12:47
of poetry. There's poetry. There's very strict
12:50
verses and these rules and meter and rhyme. And,
12:55
but there's also very free. flowing free verse
12:59
poetry, where people can pretty much just express
13:04
themselves using poetic language. I mean, to
13:07
me, I think the most important thing that poetry
13:12
does is that it allows people to say things that
13:17
prose writing doesn't allow you to do. Like the
13:23
way prose allows me to describe a dance, for
13:29
example, but poetry is like dancing with your
13:34
audience and letting them experience the dance.
13:42
So yeah, I would, I totally agree with you. It's
13:46
not a question of which form, it's not a question
13:48
of getting bogged down in forms. It's just a
13:50
question of expressing yourself poetically, letting
13:53
that poetic voice come out. So, I'd love to hear
14:00
your origin story. And I think the listeners
14:03
would love to hear it too. You're a multidisciplinary
14:06
artist. You paint. You do photography. I have
14:08
your art in my home. Music and poetry. But poetry
14:13
in particular feels like such a personal form
14:15
of storytelling for you. When did you first discover
14:19
poetry as a way to tell your story? And what
14:22
drew you to it as the form of expression for
14:26
you? I think it's pretty much what I was just
14:31
talking about that poetry allows me to really
14:37
express how I feel. I think there are things
14:40
that you can say in poetry that you just can't
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say any other way, especially when we're talking
14:46
about writing. I mean, art, of course, is another
14:48
way of the visual arts or other sorts of art
14:50
forms or another way, of course, of expressing
14:53
oneself, expressing things that can't be expressed
14:56
easily in language. or written language at least.
15:00
But as far as the written languages go, I think
15:03
poetry allows for a freedom of expression that
15:13
prose does not. It allows you to express how
15:18
something feels, not just what it is. How old
15:21
were you when you wrote your first poem? Do you
15:25
remember? Yeah. Do you remember what your first
15:27
poems? I can't really recite it at this point,
15:30
but I do remember that it was about my father
15:34
being very big and it was probably I was five.
15:42
I mean, I don't think I wrote it, which is why
15:47
I say maybe I was five because I started learning
15:49
how to write when I was five or six. I think
15:51
I just said it. But it was a rhyme. I was just
15:54
copying rhyming, you know, it was in English.
15:57
So I was past nursery school. But yeah, I was
16:04
young. That's early. So you knew, you experimented
16:10
early. We open the episode with your poem today,
16:14
The Problem of Maria, and it is a really powerful
16:17
layered piece. So when you're writing poetry
16:20
like that, are you even thinking about storytelling?
16:23
Is that something that you're consciously shaping
16:27
or is it just emerging more sort of intuitively
16:31
through the language and the rhythm and the emotion
16:33
that you're sharing? Both. So sometimes I have
16:39
to admit, I do sometimes I go into a poem knowing
16:42
exactly the story I want to tell. And the poem
16:44
we're talking about here, The Problem of Maria
16:46
was like that. I knew the title well I stole
16:50
it from the sound of music but I knew the title
16:52
before I started the poem. I heard that phrase
16:55
and I started thinking about mathematics and
16:58
what I was like as a child and how my identity
17:00
continues to emerge throughout my life and it's
17:04
just been an ongoing problem for me to solve.
17:08
But sometimes I set out to tell one story and
17:11
I actually end up telling another um because
17:13
poetry can be like that it tells us what it wants
17:17
to say sometimes before we even know we want
17:20
to say it or need to say it. And I actually have
17:26
another poem that I'd like to read that started
17:28
out like that. It's a poem called White Woman.
17:32
And when I first started writing the poem, I
17:35
intended it to be about race. I moderated a poetry
17:40
panel on Latinx poetry for the national Hispanic
17:44
Heritage Month a couple of years ago. And it
17:47
focused on identity and belonging and otherness.
17:51
And one of the things we talked about was race.
17:53
Some of the poems the panelists shared dealt
17:56
with being marginalized because of color of your
17:58
skin. Or they talked about losing or compromising
18:02
their identities by trying to appear more white,
18:06
you know, wearing different clothes, straightening
18:07
their hair. And they talked about wanting to
18:11
reclaim their identities as people of color.
18:14
Well, I mean, I come from a place of privilege
18:16
because I pass for white. I often have in my
18:19
life, especially when I was young and desperate
18:24
to fit in. And when people meet me, I mean, even
18:26
fellow Hispanics, they almost always assume I'm
18:29
white, non -Hispanic. And even though I'm fully
18:33
aware of the privilege that this has given me
18:36
and that I can never truly understand what black
18:39
and brown people have to deal with every day.
18:42
I'm going to say something I'm kind of embarrassed
18:44
to say right now. But I have sometimes envied
18:48
darker skinned Hispanics because they can't pass
18:51
for white. And then don't get me wrong, if passing
18:54
wasn't a great advantage, we wouldn't do it.
18:56
So I'm not saying for me, I can pass for white
18:59
and negating how much harder it obviously is
19:03
not to be able to pass for white to never have
19:05
the luxury. of that temptation. But I gave into
19:10
that temptation as a young person, a child, a
19:12
young adult. And I sort of lost myself in the
19:16
process. I felt like I didn't fit in anywhere
19:20
really. And those feelings of non -belonging
19:24
have sort of defined me over time. And I still
19:27
feel that way today. It's self -negating to deny
19:31
oneself. But I actually think that's how many
19:35
of us live if we have our feet in two or more
19:37
cultures, whether it's race or sexual identity
19:39
or gender. You know, we don't fit into the group
19:42
or assigned, but we don't fully fit into the
19:45
dominant group either. So I always had a problem
19:51
with being myself or even trying to figure out
19:53
who myself was. And a big part of that had to
19:56
do with my race and gender, how I was perceived
19:59
as opposed to who I was and how that informed
20:02
from a very young age my sense of self and my
20:06
ability or reluctance to be my authentic self.
20:10
And I wrote the poem White Woman about my experience
20:12
being perceived as both white and a woman, but
20:14
actually being a gender queer Hispanic. I wrote
20:17
it after hearing about a friend's experience
20:21
experiences as a black man. He's biracial, but
20:24
his father is black, but he looks white. And
20:28
how awkward it can be for him to pass for white.
20:31
And my poem started out as a poem about race
20:33
and passing, but it ended up being about me and
20:36
gender and passing. Because passing in order
20:40
to fit into the privilege class is tempting if
20:42
you can pass. This is White Woman. I am like
20:48
a black man who can pass for white. They tell
20:52
black jokes in front of him in white society.
20:55
He plays the role. It's too hard to keep explaining
21:00
himself. It's too inconvenient. Or maybe he just
21:04
doesn't mind being mistaken for white. Except
21:08
he does. It's a drag. Every now and again, someone
21:13
learns his secret and tries to be kind and calls
21:16
him brother. That makes things even more difficult.
21:20
He doesn't know how to respond as a black man.
21:23
His white skin blushes. It behaves as he was
21:27
taught it needed to. in order to mingle with
21:30
society. And the hardest group of all are those
21:35
like himself, those who can pass for white. They
21:39
criticize him for not doing the things they themselves
21:41
do not have the courage to do, or for not doing
21:45
the things they have indeed found the courage
21:46
to do. They're not the same, those like himself.
21:51
They are in gray territory, passing for white,
21:54
passing for black, acknowledging that They are
21:58
neither, trying desperately to explain to those
22:01
who have never felt a need to question that things
22:05
are not always what they seem, that arose by
22:08
the same name as sometimes a tulip in disguise,
22:11
that the rules do not apply. They do not know
22:13
the rules that do. And so they try on one outfit
22:16
after another, looking for one that fits and
22:19
wondering why it looks funny on them in the mirror.
22:24
Some tear off the garments and parade proudly
22:27
in ill -fitting clothes that suit them better.
22:31
Some stand on the sidelines and mock what they
22:33
are afraid they might understand. And some? Some
22:39
tie buttons that face in the wrong direction,
22:42
take a long hard look in the mirror, step out
22:46
into the world, and pass for white. When did
22:57
you write that? Was that 2020? No, no, that was,
23:03
well, I can't remember now several years ago.
23:07
Probably around 2008 or nine, I'm guessing. 2008
23:16
or nine? Yeah, probably. We've come so far. Yeah,
23:22
I know. I've experienced some of this as well.
23:28
I obviously pass for white. I sound white. I
23:32
am white, but I've walked that line. I think
23:37
after my parents got divorced, I went through
23:41
sort of an identity crisis, not crisis, but sort
23:44
of really looking at my identity and who did
23:46
I identify with. I identified with my Cuban heritage
23:51
and I remember after graduating from college
23:56
when I became a social worker. And I started
24:02
working with Latino families in Lawrence and
24:06
Lowell and Springfield and all in the area of
24:09
Massachusetts. And I remember walking in and
24:13
my Spanish was not strong. Sometimes I feel like
24:16
I don't practice enough. I need to practice more.
24:21
Because I was working with families from so many
24:23
different countries, South America, the Caribbean,
24:26
I was picking up all these dialects. So it was
24:29
sort of this hodgepodge of what I would speak.
24:34
And I remember walking in one time and I started
24:36
to speak to someone because these families only
24:38
spoke Spanish. And they stopped and they looked
24:40
at me and they said, what are you? Not who are
24:45
you, but what are you? I felt like I was always
24:52
apologizing for having been born in Cuba and
24:56
raised here. So I have the hips, I have the lips,
25:00
I have the curves, but I felt like I wasn't Cuban
25:03
enough for them. And then on the American side,
25:08
obviously, well, you know my story right now
25:11
as to why we're where we are seated currently.
25:15
But I remember a conversation with a friend And
25:18
she said, I wondered, I thought you were different.
25:23
You know, your face looked different. The way
25:25
you sounded looked different. It sounded different.
25:28
And that having that one foot in each culture
25:31
and trying to, like you said, solve for X. I
25:37
have to be both things. I want so much to embrace
25:42
that Cuban American side, Cuban side, but as
25:47
Cuban living in America, I have to embrace both.
25:54
Yeah, I think it's really difficult. I think
25:56
to some degree, one always feels like I'll never
25:59
be American enough to be American, but I'll never
26:01
be Cuban enough to be Cuban either. I'm going
26:03
to take that back just a little bit because I
26:06
do believe that Cuban Americans are American.
26:11
We all know what I mean. That kind of, you know,
26:16
wasp background American that people think about
26:18
the same reason that the same way that I use
26:21
the word white, for example, in that poem. And
26:24
we're talking about white America, I'm talking
26:25
about white as opposed to, you know, Hispanic,
26:30
I'm not talking just about the shade that one's
26:34
skin is I'm talking about the whole idea of white
26:38
America, you know, which is kind of very anti
26:41
Hispanic in some ways. Yeah. Yeah. It certainly
26:45
is currently. So let's touch again on your poem
26:51
problem of Maria. So we've been talking about
26:53
it. I just love it. You know, I really truly
26:55
felt like I got to know you during that workshop
26:59
and you laid out a powerful thread around names,
27:05
identity, expectations placed on folks culturally
27:09
and socially. I have to say, one of the things
27:14
that I've always struggled with is my name has
27:17
always been pronounced incorrectly. And I'll
27:21
never find a pencil in the souvenir shop with
27:24
my name on it and always correcting people. And
27:27
they'd be moments, periods of my life where I
27:29
would just not bother correcting them because
27:31
it felt like I was always correcting people and
27:34
they would still get it wrong. And so I find
27:37
that I'm really I'm all about honoring the pronunciation
27:44
of people's names as they are and not changing
27:46
them. I know when you talked about in your poem,
27:49
you talked about your parents changing their
27:51
names because at that time they needed to, there
27:55
was no way to assimilate if you didn't do that.
27:58
But you know, if I go into a nail salon and there
28:01
are Korean women in there and they're named Jane,
28:05
I will stop and say to them, help me pronounce
28:08
your beautiful name correctly. And if they say,
28:12
you know, Nguyen Kim, then I will call them by
28:15
their name. That is their name. Their name is
28:17
not Jane. They've made it convenient for their
28:21
customers, but that is not the name that they
28:23
were given. So when you think about the stories
28:27
we inherit from family, from the culture that
28:30
we are in, from the society that we're in, What
28:36
does it take to carry them, reshape them, and
28:39
then let them go? So I think I have another poem
28:46
that does those three things. One of the most
28:49
painful things that I've had to deal with in
28:51
my life is my journey through gender. My inability
28:56
to see myself as others see me has been a constant
28:58
struggle for me from an extremely young age.
29:00
I am well aware of what is expected of me. from
29:04
my family, from my cultures, all of them, from
29:08
the religion I grew up in, and most especially
29:12
from society and especially as we've been saying
29:14
today's increasingly intolerant society or governing
29:17
body at least. But I said that I was often happy
29:22
to pass for white as a young adult, I was never
29:25
happy to pass for female. And yet I did. I was
29:29
born at a time when transitioning was not as
29:32
common, and the results were not as spectacular
29:35
as they are today. I was also born at a time
29:37
before the internet, so perhaps they were incredible
29:40
options out there for me, but I was entirely
29:42
unaware, living in a smallish town in Massachusetts.
29:46
I didn't know any transgender people when I was
29:48
young. And that's actually one of the reasons
29:51
that I think being visible is so important. It's
29:55
the reason why I wanted to focus on my gender
29:57
poetry for this LGBTQ plus episode, because the
30:02
transgender or non -binary community is often
30:06
marginalized even within the LGBTQ plus community,
30:10
and they're certainly the most discriminated
30:12
against, the most likely to be victims of violence,
30:15
and the most likely to commit suicide. I myself
30:21
have not chosen to seek medical intervention
30:24
at this stage in my life. I've also come to realize
30:27
that although I would have preferred a male body
30:29
to a female one, I will always be genderqueer.
30:32
I don't really fit either of the binary models
30:35
very well. But the poem that I'm about to read
30:38
now starts off very binary. It starts off in
30:40
a time when I thought there were only two genders
30:42
and given a choice between the two, I chose male.
30:45
Although I seem to subconsciously know that it
30:48
wasn't as simple as that. And the poem is called
30:52
Scooter. And it's a poem in parts. So part one.
30:59
When I was young, I played with Barbies. My brothers
31:04
played with GI Joes, but they were too angry
31:07
and brutish for me. They were Ken dolls with
31:10
their sculpted chests, but they didn't look like
31:13
anyone I knew. Neither did Barbie with her hard,
31:17
strange, protruding breasts and unnaturally angled
31:20
feet. My favorite was Scooter. A preteen Barbie,
31:26
but I didn't know that. Scooter looked right.
31:31
Flat chest and flat feet. Boyish waist and sun
31:34
-kissed freckles. She wore her hair in ponytails,
31:38
which I took down. Cut her hair so I brushed
31:40
her shoulders. It was after all the summer of
31:43
love. Took her swimming in the bathtub. She had
31:48
a two -piece suit. Boy shorts on bottom, cut
31:51
-off tank up top. I let her swim topless. sat
31:56
her on the edge of the tub, her arm around the
31:59
skipper doll with her long blonde hair wet and
32:02
clinging to her pretty one piece. I forgot to
32:06
remove them after my bath once. My mother found
32:09
them. She never mentioned it, but I knew it was
32:13
wrong. Knew I should not have let her see shirtless
32:17
Scooter with his arm around his girlfriend. Part
32:23
Two. I remember it vividly, the day I woke up
32:29
to breasts. Well, not exactly, but I looked in
32:34
the mirror and my nipples had changed overnight.
32:38
Grown, I noticed with alarm. They protruded from
32:42
slightly swollen skin. I knew what it meant.
32:47
Knew that no one must see them. I reached for
32:51
a shirt, told myself, never will you go shirtless
32:54
again. Petrified my family would ask why I was
32:57
wearing a shirt. My life now revolved around
33:02
two budding unwelcome orbs on my chest, proclaiming
33:07
me feminine before anyone had a chance to ask.
33:12
I hid them for as long as I could. I lied about
33:15
them just like they lied about me. Until the
33:20
day my mother noticed nipples demanding acknowledgement
33:22
under my shirt and bought me a bra. with my siblings
33:25
in tow. Like Hester Prynne's baby covering her
33:31
scarlet letter in vain, the very bra they gave
33:33
me to conceal my breasts served to draw attention
33:36
to them, albeit in a socially acceptable way.
33:41
Did the bra feminize me more than the flesh it
33:43
covered? A question I would spend the rest of
33:46
my life asking. As I hid behind cloth, behind
33:51
flesh, well, I was expected to hide. Women go
33:56
to jail for exposing their breasts. Part three.
34:05
The day I went topless on South Beach, I was
34:08
approached by a man. 30 -something Middle Eastern
34:11
accent. You'll get burned like that. Aren't you
34:15
afraid? The question hung between us. I had watched
34:22
men like him on the beach for years. The water
34:26
licking their chests, the sun warming their skin.
34:31
I had envied them, their freedom to feel. I covered
34:37
my chest, not from the sun, but from the shame
34:40
of flesh that needed hiding, removing, denying.
34:46
I covered my chest out of fear of being discovered.
34:51
Today, I had discovered that the sun feels different
34:54
on skin it has never touched, and that skin once
34:58
touched never forgets. I looked at my accuser's
35:03
fleshy chest. So long had I looked at chests
35:06
like his and striven to forgive myself my own.
35:11
Today, I refuse to forgive or to condemn. My
35:17
suntanned breasts stood defiant. Parts of an
35:20
imperfect body, yes, but no longer the defining
35:24
part. That part lay deeper still in the breast
35:30
of a boy -girl staring at department store dolls
35:34
who knew that no matter what the packaging said,
35:40
Scooter was a boy. And when did you write that
35:51
one? That's a good question. Probably around
36:02
2015 or so. I could look that up, but I don't
36:10
remember. Probably around 2015 or so, I guess.
36:13
Yeah. So you are not just a poet? You're an educator.
36:19
You also help others find their voice through
36:21
art and expression. When you're teaching or working
36:25
with others, how do you help someone who may
36:29
not feel like a storyteller begin to express
36:32
their truth through art? I mean, are you even
36:36
thinking about that when you're working with
36:37
someone? I mean, there are tools for telling
36:44
a story, even if you're not particularly thinking
36:46
about doing it. So one of the things I love to
36:49
do is to create acrostic art or poetry. These
36:53
are works that are created in response to another
36:55
work of art. So for example, sometimes a poem
36:58
will move me and I will want to express what
37:02
I feel about it in a painting. Or sometimes a
37:04
painting moves me to the point where I want to
37:07
sit down and write a poem about it, about how
37:10
I feel about it. And the funny thing is, and
37:13
maybe this is just me, but whenever I start writing
37:16
about something that moves me, I invariably end
37:19
up writing about myself. But I do think that
37:23
oneself always shows up in a poem or a painting.
37:26
It doesn't matter what the actual subject is.
37:29
I think one always brings something of themself
37:32
into the work. So if a person's having a hard
37:37
time telling a story, I would say, don't focus
37:38
on yourself. And you write about something else.
37:42
Don't just write about it. Tell me how it makes
37:45
you feel. Tell me why. Tell me what you wish
37:49
it could give you. Tell me why you hate it, why
37:52
you love it, why you're indifferent to it. It
37:54
doesn't matter. There's no wrong answers. But
37:58
if you tell me what it is that you're feeling,
38:00
if you put those feelings out there, then you're
38:04
speaking your truth. You're telling your story.
38:07
Obviously this episode is part of our Pride series
38:10
and we've mentioned that we create space for
38:13
the LGBTQ plus storytellers and their experiences.
38:17
So from your perspective, what does true inclusion
38:20
look like? I mean, not just in art, but in everyday
38:23
life and can storytelling or how can storytelling
38:26
move us towards that? I have a story for this.
38:35
So I have a brother. who I am quite close to.
38:40
But I never felt comfortable coming out to him
38:43
as trans male or non -binary because I knew how
38:46
he felt about gender. And then one day, I heard
38:51
him talking on the phone in another room and
38:53
he was talking about how gender is a genetic
38:55
fact and he didn't get this whole they pronoun
38:57
thing. They were two genders. And I started feeling
39:02
really uncomfortable and I guess I got worked
39:06
up enough that I also started feeling very reckless.
39:09
And I walked into his room after he hung up and
39:12
I said, I prefer they pronouns. And I told him
39:18
how I never felt female even before I started
39:20
kindergarten. And I told him that I couldn't
39:23
explain why, but I knew from experience that
39:25
it's entirely possible to feel like a male even
39:27
if you were born with female genitalia. And we
39:31
talked about how a lot of the physical attributes
39:33
that we associate with gender are hormone related,
39:37
like developing breasts and body hair, baldness
39:40
and muscle strength. And I knew trans males who
39:44
were on gender -affirming hormone therapy, and
39:46
I defied anyone to guess that they were assigned
39:50
female at birth. I mean, they looked and sounded
39:52
just like my brother's friends and business associates.
39:56
And he seemed I was thoughtful about that last
39:58
bit, so I told him, Google, Google on your own
40:01
trans males and just look at the images and see
40:04
if you can spot the trans males. And I told him
40:09
that I myself had not opted for hormone therapy,
40:13
but at one time I would have loved to. And although
40:16
I never would have been the most masculine male,
40:19
I mean, it would have been the same gender non
40:21
-conforming male I am today in a different body.
40:25
because I'm not a binary person, which is why
40:28
I prefer they pronouns. My brother came back
40:32
to me later that day and he told me that he had
40:34
gone online and searched trans male images and
40:37
that, no, he would not have pegged many of them
40:39
as trans male. And then we didn't talk about
40:43
it again. So fast forward several years. And
40:46
my brother is writing an email introducing me
40:49
to a business associate and we work in a family
40:52
business together. and he CCs me on it. And I
40:56
noticed that when he's referring to me, he writes,
41:00
they are the person who usually handles these
41:02
things. And I was stunned. I reread it over and
41:09
over. I mean, he was using they pronouns for
41:12
me with a colleague, not bothering to explain
41:15
it or anything. He just did it like it was the
41:18
most natural thing in the world. And I went to
41:21
his office and thanked him. And he smiled and
41:25
said, I'm trying. And then that's what inclusion
41:30
looks like to me. And people who may not fully
41:34
understand what it is that you're going through
41:36
or what your experience of life is like, but
41:40
who love you or respect you or maybe just show
41:43
you the common decency of recognizing publicly
41:46
who you are. I mean, I don't really think it's
41:49
our responsibility as other to constantly educate
41:53
everyone, but I do think that the more people
41:57
who hear our stories, the more people we allow
41:59
to see us, the more people will understand or
42:04
at least respect us. They'll see us as just another
42:08
acceptable way to be. That's huge. because in
42:17
the email, he said, they are the person. Because
42:24
sometimes people could say, yeah, I'm going with
42:26
them sort of as a plural, but not as sort of
42:30
the defining pronoun. So that's huge. I know
42:35
your brothers. And so I know how huge this is.
42:39
So kudos to them. So as we're getting ready to
42:43
wrap up, I always like to ask our guests to speak
42:46
directly to our listeners and to give them some
42:49
pointers. So for our listeners who may be on
42:53
their own journey, whether it's around identity,
42:56
expression, or just want to simply feel seen,
43:00
what would you say to someone who's still trying
43:03
to find the words for their own story? Experiment.
43:12
You might not even use words. And as we've been
43:14
saying, it might be music or art or dance. It
43:19
might be what you wear. It might be all of those
43:22
things. You might be a Renaissance person like
43:24
me, but everyone has a story to tell. So find
43:29
your voice and use it. That's a great tip. Thank
43:35
you. Well, I could talk about this all day. but
43:39
then this podcast would go on all day. So that
43:41
is all the time we have for today, Pilar. And
43:44
thank you so much for joining us and reminding
43:47
us that storytelling can happen boldly on a page
43:51
or a stage, but it also happens in the quiet
43:53
work of finding the right words, embracing who
43:57
we are and allowing ourselves to be seen one
44:00
poem at a time. Thank you, Prima. It was wonderful
44:07
to be here. Thank you. And to our listeners,
44:11
whether you've first heard us locally through
44:14
BTV studios in Bedford, Massachusetts, or you're
44:17
tuning in from across the globe on Spotify, Apple
44:20
podcasts or Amazon podcasts, thank you for listening.
44:24
We hope you enjoyed this episode and we'll see
44:26
you next time. Happy storytelling.