Latest / The BlackSheep Podcast: Presented by HM Magazine / Joe Vannucchi on the History of From Indian Lakes

Transcript

Joe Vannucchi on the History of From Indian Lakes · The BlackSheep Podcast: Presented by HM Magazine

• 0:30
  Speaker 1: Today I have Joe from Indian Lakes. From, from Indian Lakes.
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: Does that ever happen when you guys are like, you know,
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: maybe you're getting introduced or whatever? Is it like from,
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: from Indian Lakes? Are you doubling up the from?
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: People do that because surprisingly they don't think that it's
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: where we're from.
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: Oh, like we would choose that. Is it Indian Links, California?
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just a little spot in the mountains. And
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: to me, the name sucks. So I'm shocked when people
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: think that we're like, oh, that's so sick.
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: Why do you think it sucks?
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: It wouldn't be literal. I just think it's not a
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: name that I would choose for myself. like for vibes,
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: you know what I mean? It's very much like needed
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: a name for a flyer. The first time someone asked
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: me to play songs and it was like, it was
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: one of the, it's one of those names where you're like, uh,
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: and then you come up with it. And then later
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: you're like, it's not great. I don't know. It's only
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: when you're, I don't know if you have bands that
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: you've had discussions with people about how good their names are.
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: That's when you realize how, unimpressive your own is, you
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: know what I mean?
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: Interesting.
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: I mean, there's definitely bands where I'm like, I'm not
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: a fan of the name of the band, uh, but
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: I've actually always loved from India because there is like,
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: to me, it's kind of this like joke about like,
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: and maybe this is where like the name came from
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: for you, but like, like you knew a lot of
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: times when you like hear a band or whatever, they'll
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: say where they're from. So I just like kind of
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: got this like vibe from you that like maybe when
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: you were playing shows, maybe even before from Indian Lake
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: started as, as your project, maybe you were like, you know, doing,
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: you know what my I'm Joe, I'm from Indian lakes.
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: And then maybe that just like stuck is like, Oh,
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: that's kind of funny that like, what if you just
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: did the from Indian lakes as like the band name?
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: Um, no, it started because yeah. The, when I first
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: uploaded some like demo kind of songs, it was, it was, uh,
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: songs from Indian lakes. It was like, that was how
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: much I like, couldn't think of a band name. You
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: know what I mean? Like, it was just like, oh,
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: that's kind of cool. And so I think Songs from
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: Indian Lakes is cool, but that's too long, in my opinion,
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: to roll with. So then it turned into From Indian Lakes,
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: and then it was kind of cool at first. But
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: I think, like I said, it's just in the context
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: of a conversation when you're like, oh, Radiohead. Wow, what
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: a genius name. What a classic name. Nirvana. Right. God,
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: what a perfect name. And then it's like from Indian lakes,
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: you know, it's, it's no one's ever going to accuse
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: that of being like this genius as far as like
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: the sound of the music and the vibes and everything.
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: You know what I mean? It's more of like, you know,
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: the context kind of matters.
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Two things. One, one that like, and I don't
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: know why we're getting into band names.
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we don't have to, but sorry.
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: This is funny because it is like making me think about,
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: I was thinking about this the other day. So one
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: of my favorite bands of all time is Me Without You.
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: I'm sure you're familiar with them.
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: Love them, man.
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: And one of the things I love about Me Without
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: You is the name alone, there is something that feels
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: like it encapsulates who they are as a band. Totally. Yeah,
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: it's great. And the way they stylize it makes it sound,
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: or it looks very much like, oh, that's exactly how
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: you would stylize that for that kind of band. Like
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: there's just something contextual about the name that fits perfectly
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: for that band name or for that band. And so,
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: I don't know. There's something to me about From Indian Lakes.
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: It has this like, okay, maybe this is not where
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: you go with this, but like it reminds me of
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: like a letter. Like if you're writing like a really
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: nice letter.
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: Oh, that's nice.
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: And I don't know. There's something about like, especially like
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: your more recent music over the last maybe couple albums.
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: There is kind of this like indie vibe that feels
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: very kind of handwriting lettery kind of. I don't know.
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: But that's like what I hear when, you know, obviously
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: from Indian Lake.
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, I don't know.
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: I kind of get this like handwritten notes, which to
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: me feels very indie.
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I like that. I think I'll hold on to that.
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: There you go. Take that. Take that.
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: Thank you.
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: Well, let's talk about just, yeah, the history from Indian Lakes.
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: I know this is kind of really just like your
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: solo project. To give you maybe some context of me
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: as a fan of your project, I still remember when
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: the first album came out and I'm blinking, The Man
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: With Wooden Legs. I remember when that first came out
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: in 2009. And I think I got it off of,
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: do you remember like uploading it to like Noise Trade?
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: Does that sound familiar? Because I feel like I got it.
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: I feel like I got it from like Bandcamp or
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: Noise Trade or something like that. And I still remember
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: my best friend who is usually on this podcast. He
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: and I were riding around in his Chevy S10 pickup
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: truck one day. And we grew up in the middle
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: of nowhere in South Dakota. And we're just like driving
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: around the country. And he was like, dude, you have
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: to listen to this. This is literally like all the
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: things that we love in music, whether it's like post-hardcore, indie, post-rocky, whatever.
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: Like all the sort of genres that we loved, especially
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: at that time. He was like, it's all here. And
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: so I remember like listening, I think it was maybe
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: the last song on that first album. And again, maybe
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: that song, was it called The Man With Wooden Legs?
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: I think it's, yeah, the titular track.
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: I've never said that, so I'm glad I got to
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: say that. So that song specifically, it just was like, God,
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: this is so good. This is literally everything I loved
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: about music. And so, yeah, I've followed your career since then.
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: I still have an Able Bodies shirt of like the
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: album cover. It still is like the shirt that I
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: wear like oftentimes for bed. sick but it's like it's
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: old now I mean when did that album come out
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: yeah 2012 so that that shit's gotta be like 14
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: years old now and I still wear it every now
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: and then so yeah that's crazy so anyway lifelong fan.
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: Here sweet yeah that's it's funny that you say all
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: that stuff mixed into there cause to me that's what
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: that album feels like is a little bit of kinda
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: not knowing what to which direction to go in right
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: and so there's definitely some something special about that but
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: you could imagine the person that, you know, the crew
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: that was part of it. There's a lot of it that,
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: like if we're rehearsing for tour or we're doing stuff,
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: we're a little bit like, we're kind of laughing at
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: some of the ways some of it's put together. Yeah.
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: We're just like, this is so like, there's not a
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: lot of rhyme or reason to some of it.
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: Right. And it definitely felt like when able, again, we're
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: getting in our head of ourselves, but it did feel
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: like when Able Bodies came out that there was more
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: refinement in the, even just the songwriting that just feels,
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: and I would imagine that's natural as like a songwriter
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: that like, as you get older, you're going to mature
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: and you're going to refine your songwriting.
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah. The first album, I honestly felt like I couldn't
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: even write a song. Like, I know that seems impossible,
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: but when you're a teenager and you're playing in bands,
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: especially when you come from playing in, like I was
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: drumming in metal bands and And like, it was like,
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: I was studying jazz drumming. And so the bands I
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: was in, I was, it was like tech metal. Like,
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: you know, we were obsessed with like Between the Buried
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: and Me and bands like that. And so, so to
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: write a simple song with like a chorus that feels repeatable,
• 8:09
  Speaker 2: like I had no idea how to do that because
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: everything I had done was like, oh, and then the
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: next part is like this crazy part and then the
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: next part after that is like another crazy riff and
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: time signature and so you're coming from this space of
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: like chaos and then you go to write simple kind
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: of stuff and as everyone learns it's really hard to
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: write like really simple repeatable nice songs you know so
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: it's like the journey felt And by able bodies, it
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: felt like I literally remember the moment that it felt
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: like I figured out how to write a song. And
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: it was my manager at the time was like, I
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: sent him a voice memo of a song, me playing
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: it on the acoustic guitar. And he was like, oh,
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: this is like your first real song. And he was
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: a homie.
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: Do you remember what song it was?
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it was that song, We Are Sick.
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and that song is like, at the time, it
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: felt like I was writing, like, I was like, this
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: is so corny. Like, this song is, this might as
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: well be Taylor Swift, is like what it felt like.
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: And then, you know, looking back, it's, that's how it goes.
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: And that's also why when you interact with people who
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: only listen to really aggressive music, and they tell you
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: that some album is like a pop album or something,
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: it's like the, their scope of, What they listen to matters,
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: you know what I mean? Because looking back, that song
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: is just a straight alternative emo rock song. You know
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: what I mean? It's like, it's not pop, but that's
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: what it felt like.
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: What was it about like the process of you getting
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: into that mode of like writing what, you know, maybe
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: you saw as like a pop song at that time.
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: Were you listening to like maybe more pop kind of
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: music that like was inspiring that or what, like what
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: was like maybe, influencing you to get to that point
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: of writing that type of more refined music or music
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: that eventually you would think at that time was pop music?
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: Well, because of my register, I grew up singing songs
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: primarily by women. And so I have this background of
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: like 90s alternative female fronted music that I was obsessed
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: with for a long time, like six months on the
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: richer or the cranberries, the Sundays, you know what I mean?
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: It's like, and so that was kind of in me.
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: And then, you know, I got into my, I had
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: an older sister that would burn me CDs and influence
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: what I got into. And, you know, I got really
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: into new metal and deaf tones and incubus. And I
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: obsessed over that. And then that evolved into, heavy music,
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: continuing to get into heavy music into my teenage years.
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: And then by the time I was doing the for
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: many and like stuff, I was trying to figure out
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: where my, what my voice was. And I kind of
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: went back to that alternative nineties stuff. And I was
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: like recording cranberries covers on my eight track. And I
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: was like, and then, it all kind of meshed with
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: like the first stuff. We're playing shows with a bunch
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: of mathy bands and hardcore bands and emo bands. And
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: then the live shows kind of influencing what's going on.
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: And we're trying to be more aggressive. We're trying to
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: take these demos that I was making and then make
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: them more aggressive to match the live energy of all
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: the shows we're playing. And it kind of is, that's
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: another reason why the first album feels kind of a
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: certain way to me. And then by the time we
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: get to able-bodieds, And like I said, I'm like trying
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: to figure it out. I'm listening back to a lot
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: of that stuff. And then some newer bands, like I
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: remember trying to tap back into, I really loved Eat, Sleep,
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: Repeat by Copeland, which to me, and when I talked
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: to them about this stuff, it is like a Sixpence, Cranberries, Sundays.
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: Like Copeland, that's what they are to me, is like
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: always kind of misunderstood as like, you know, they could
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: have totally put out, like, Kiss Me. You know what
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: I mean? And so bands like that, I was kind
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: of trying to tap back into those influences. And so
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: I think, you know, as far as, like, whether if
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: that's pop, then that's, I guess, what I was trying
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: to tap into. But again, the stuff on Able Bodies
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: doesn't sound anything like that stuff. But that is kind
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: of the influence of, like, trying to tap into pop
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: and structure.
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: Right, just like the writing of it feels definitely more
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: kind of like, yeah, that 90s alternative vibe. Even if
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: the sound itself isn't exactly that, the writing certainly feels
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: like you're at least moving towards that direction.
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and, you know, it's all kind of battling with
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: my growing up going to hardcore and metal shows and, like,
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: being obsessed with those bands too and trying to marry
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: them when in actuality I probably... could have uh i
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: feel like as time goes on things get a little
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: more focused in a way that some bands you know
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: maybe like you would just start like a new band
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: fresh and your first album would be this like absolute
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: honed in banger that everyone's like you know but instead
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: the journey is kind of all there for everybody to
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: listen to since i was like a teenager so it's
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: right It is what it is. But, and that album
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: able bodies too, like if I was to like the,
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: the studio we were at and the producer we were
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: working with, he was like a very like technical, pristine
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: rock producer. And so I, I wish that that album
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: was a little more like just in a room with
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: the gain cranked, like, I don't know if it would
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: be heavier, but I think it would be louder. And
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: then vocally it would probably feel a little bit more
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: like myself.
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: At times, instead of being like very crisp in front of,
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: you know, right in your face, the mix, you know,
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: but then sometimes I'm like yelling, you know what I mean?
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: It would probably be like a little more of a
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: marriage of what naturally sounds a little more like me,
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: but then the music would probably be like heavier.
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: Weirdly. Yeah, I love that. It reminds me of, I'm
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: sure you're like a fan of Foxing, and their last album,
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: was that maybe two years ago now?
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we did that tour.
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and it like, in fact, that's literally, I remember,
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: like I saw you guys play.
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I live in Minneapolis. I saw you guys play there.
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: That's right. I totally forgot about that.
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: I like Minneapolis.
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: But they, what was... what I loved about that album
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: was the, like, you know, they have this kind of
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: eclectic journey of their discography of, of their sound. And
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: obviously with this newer, that new album, um, with the
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: self title, it really turned more into this like hardcore
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: album again, um, which I would imagine some of their
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: roots were that. And so, yeah, I'm like for you, like,
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: do you ever kind of think through that of like,
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: is there a way to write the kind of music
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: that you feel compelled to write, but in like maybe
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: more of a hardcore sound, no kind of going back
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: to maybe some of those original roots?
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I think Head Void, the newest album,
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: was such a huge step in the right direction. It
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: just felt so, and I think that's why it went
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: as well as it did for such a DIY thing
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: as far as like write-ups and tours that we got
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: asked to be on and, you know, fans of the band,
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: their response to it. I think that even though it
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: is like, it's not like a huge leap in a
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: way that feels like, who is this? But it's like,
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: you can feel the, the, that it's just like a
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: pick up a guitar and write a bunch of riffs,
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: but it's still, you know, there's a core songwriter there
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: from the other albums. So I think that's like, to me,
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: the album, and I've talked to people too, like it
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: feels really heavy, even though like when, in your mind,
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: when you're like, thinking of the songs, they feel really heavy.
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: And then when you go to listen to them, they're
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: less heavy than your mental, like, and I think that's
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: kind of perfect. All my favorite albums kind of feel
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: that way. It's like when you, it's like when I
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: saw Dr. Dog for the first time and I was like, dude,
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: this is like a huge, loud, heavy rock show. Like
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: they're like the Beatles. It's like their recordings are so
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: classic and small.
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: I feel that way about like Explosions in the Sky
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: or like Cirgros. Or even like This Will Destroy You.
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: Like all of those bands when you go to their shows,
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: even though it's obviously like not a hardcore show in
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: terms of the style of it. But, you know, there's
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: no Mashi in a Cirgros show. But just the loudness
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: of it has the kind of intensity just by the
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: sheer fact that it's like these loud sounds that are
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: coming out that make it feel very hardcore in that way.
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like, yeah, I think making albums, like there's
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: people that will talk to me and say that we
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: are better live. And it's like, that is, some people
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: might disagree, but that's good. Like, it is better to
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: kind of, like I said, I think like the Beatles
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: and a lot of these classic bands or whatever, you know,
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: they have these like small, nice recordings that are meant
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: for a certain context, which is, you know, they're thinking
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: about where this is going to be listened to and
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: how it's going to be listened to and all that.
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: And then live, you just kind of blow the roof
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: off in this way that's awesome. And so I think
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: the last album has that vibe. And I think it
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: was a good stepping stone to what's going to come next,
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: which is cool. I think it has... I'm really, really
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: happy with its place and where it's going to lead to,
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: which is cool.
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: This whole conversation is like reminding me, uh, and you
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: made like a comment, uh, a bit ago about like,
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: you know, there, there is something to be said about
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: like starting out the band with, with that, that first album, the,
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: the man with wooden legs and with the sound of that.
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: And even like what you would maybe describe as like
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: kind of the lack of refinement of that album. And,
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: And the trajectory or kind of the evolution, maybe that's
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: the better word for it, but the evolution of your
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: sound throughout all of the different albums now. You're at
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: six albums now, yeah. So throughout the evolution of all
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: the albums, it's like one of those things where you
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: could start out with just like, this is the sound
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: and I'm just going to make that sound with every
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: single album. And there are some bands that have done
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: that really well.
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: Totally.
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: But I think one of the things that I've always
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: appreciated about, and I would imagine is probably true for
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: almost all of the bands that I love, whether it's
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: Radiohead or Under Oath or Me Without You or whoever
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: it might be, so many of their albums will change,
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: maybe even just slightly, but they'll change album to album.
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: I think Me Without You might be the best representative
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: of that. And so, yeah, I know that maybe some
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: artists maybe have insecurity around the the fact that maybe
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: they they start out sounding kind of one thing and
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: then as they like grow as an artist they kind
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: of refine and figure out kind of where maybe they
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: really feel most comfortable with their sound but i i
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: don't know i think there's something really beautiful about hearing
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: the difference of sounds throughout uh an entire catalog uh
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: and hearing that evolution i think there's just something really
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: beautiful and i would imagine you probably uh would agree
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: with that especially for probably some of your favorite musicians
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: as well.
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: I think Yes, I do agree with you. I think
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: streaming like Spotify has kind of fucked up a lot
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: of that vibe that you're talking about.
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because you're only listening to like maybe one song
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: or just even a 60 second clip of something.
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: You know, like there was like a sweet spot where
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: streaming was happening and iTunes was still working and people
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: were buying physical stuff and someone could say like, oh,
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: you should check out this band. and you'd go check
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: them out. And the first thing you would hear is
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: probably the best representation of what they sound like. And
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: now when you go to Spotify, if someone made a
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: playlist of like, and total outlier of like an old
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: song and that playlist became like really, really popular. And
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: then it just kept snowballing. Cause it's continued to be
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: like the first thing that people do. It's like now
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: you'll it's, it's, it's uh i wouldn't say that i'm
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: insecure about the old stuff but it definitely gets in
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: the way more than ever as far as like people
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: being like oh that band i love that band and
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: then they'll name a song that you're just like you
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: know they're like you didn't play that song and i'm
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: like yeah we would never play that song it's like
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: you know out of six albums that song is like
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: even on the album it's on, it's a total outlier
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: or it'll be someone that's like, Oh yeah, I checked
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: them out. I hate it. And it's maybe they heard
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: that song, you know what I mean? So it's like,
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: it can be, it can be a really cool journey,
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: but sometimes the new streaming world we're in can make
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: people with their teenage diary out there for everybody to read.
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: It can make staying ahead like a little bit more difficult,
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: you know what I mean? Yeah.
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, it's just like it ends up a lot
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: of songs that people know of a band, whether they
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: like it or don't like it, a lot of songs
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: end up being not actually very representative of what that
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: band actually sounds like.
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: Totally, exactly. Yeah, so like, you know, especially if you're
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: as DIY as we've been, it's sometimes hard to get
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: into some of the spaces where maybe you would fit
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: in great, you know what I mean? Because of some
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: of that stuff. from when you were really young that
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: was like, you were trying to figure it out and
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: people are like, no, that's what you sound like. Like you're,
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: that's it. Don't try to show us this other stuff. Right.
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah. It would be, it would feel like, you know, again,
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: like if you think of like, uh, under oath or whatever,
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: it's like if, if people still expected under oath to
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: sound like, I don't know, uh, like their black metal days,
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: like it would just, it would like, it wouldn't be
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: helpful for that band, nor would it be, I don't know.
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: I think just allowing the band to like grow, um,
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: just like any person would ever grow and like allowing
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: that person to be who they are, they're coming in
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: to be and accepting that is important. And so, yeah,
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: I think we, we should think the same way about
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: like musicians and artists. And so even if that doesn't
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: necessarily mean like I'm going to love like every single album, um,
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: that will, you know, a band, even a favorite band
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: of mine that they might put out. But I can
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: always still appreciate the fact that they're still trying to
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: like evolve and sort of refine or figure out that
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: sound that they're chasing. Because I would imagine like the
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: sound for any band isn't like, there isn't like this
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: like actual thing that actually exists. Like, you know, I
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: would imagine for Indian Lakes, like there isn't this like
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: actual attainable sound that is like, that is the perfect
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: from Indian Lakes sound. And we can't, if we ever
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: got it, then we can ever deviate from that. Like,
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: I can't imagine that actually exists. But you probably do
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: have some sense of there's something that's compelling you or
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: it's pulling you towards it that does feel like, oh,
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: that at least needs to be the sound for this, like,
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: coming album or this, like, next song or whatever. Like,
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: there must be something that's, like, compelling you towards something
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: that feels right in the moment, even if that what
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: felt right in that moment then doesn't feel right in
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: the moment later on, let's say two years from now.
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think... I think if you write a lot
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: of music and you record a lot of music, then
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: it just feels like you're constantly working and getting better.
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: And I think that you get into this flow where
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: you let it come to you. And so I think
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: sometimes people think there's more of a goal, but in
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: reality it's like, you just make a bunch of songs
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: and then one or two of them, you're like, Oh,
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: that's kind of cool. But maybe it's like there, there's
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: a bunch of new stuff. And when it ended up once,
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: like from the demos to the studio time, what ended
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: up being like, there's a really, really aggressive song that
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: just wanted to be more and more gnarly. And it
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: was just like, and then by the time it was
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: over with and friends were coming through and hanging, And
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: it was just obvious that that song, like we were
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: just like, God, this is like such a banger. And
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: maybe this is what needs to be like a single
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: or something. You know what I mean? But when those
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: songs were first being made, it was just another day,
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: another vibe that you were just kind of rolling with.
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: You know what I mean? And if someone was like,
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: what inspired this song? It's like, I have no idea.
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: I mean, I don't remember anything about writing the song
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: besides being like, Oh, that's kind of sick. And then
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: continuing to kind of cook on it. You know what
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: I mean? So I think it's people think about music
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: in this way. That's different from all the other trades,
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: but it's really the same as far as like how
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: things get built and how art gets made. It's, it's
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: a little less like once you get into the spaces
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: where there's like a billion writers in a room and
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: they're trying to see what if they can make something
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: that's going to make the most money possible, that is
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: like such a small, that's like 0.001 of the industry.
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: You know what I mean? But I think people think
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: that's like the core of it.
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: Right. And like, that's representative of what every artist is like. Totally.
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: It's certainly not the case. Yeah.
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: It's mostly just people like pulling out a canvas, seeing
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: what color speaks to them, seeing what, direction things start
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: to go with, you know what I mean? It's like,
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: it's very, it's, it's a lot less, uh, pointed.
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Along those lines, how do songs come to you? Like, I,
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: I know for some artists, it's like one of those
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: things where like, they just hear something in their head
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: and they just can't get it out. Uh, and they
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: maybe like quickly like try to record just like maybe
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: the chord progression or whatever it is. I know certainly
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: there are some artists where they're just like tinkering around
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: on their guitar and then they like find like, Oh,
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: that's like, that sounds cool. Uh, and they, Maybe it's
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: a combo of all of that, but how do songs
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: typically come to you? Do you have that sound that
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: just starts coming to your head? Are you listening to
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: another song and then in your head you veer off
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: or maybe riff off of that song that you were
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: listening to? I don't know. I'm always curious for songwriters
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: how they're coming up with songs.
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: It varies. I'm definitely in the camp of creators that
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: believes that every song you're going to write already exists
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: and you just kind of need to like get to it.
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: And you can't get to the good songs until you
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: get through the bad songs. And it's just like, just go, go, go, go.
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: So like, um, you know, something will pop into my
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: brain and I'll hum it into a voice memo or
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: I'll think of something, a progression and I'll grab a
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: guitar and like, get going i remember on the album
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: uh everything feels better now half those songs were like
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: my first time having trying to build out like a
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: home studio setup and i was just starting every session
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: with a drum beat so a lot of that album
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: is like starting with drums which is really different yeah
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: um but that was cool because it led to some
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: of my favorite stuff and I think it created a
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: lot of space for like that anniversary, 10 year anniversary
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: is this year. And people have asked if we're going
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: to do something. And it's like that album, none of
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: us want to like try to learn the riffs and stuff. Like,
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: it's just, it's like, yeah, that could be cool, but
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: it just sounds like so much work. Cause that album
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: is so groovy and like the bass and everything just
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: goes crazy. So it's like, you know?
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: But then like head void, it was every, almost every
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: song was like, just picking up a guitar, being in
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: a new proper home studio that I was building and
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: picking up a guitar and just like wanting to write
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: really like kind of simple but riffy riffs that were
• 29:54
  Speaker 2: like really high gain the whole time it's like a
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: a lot of that. So yeah, I don't know. And
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: if I'm writing like folk music for my, when I
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: put out folk records under my name, it's like, um, there's,
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: there's a song that I was listening to, uh, Alison's halo.
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: And I liked the chord progression. They're just like an
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: old kind of under the radar shoegaze band from Seattle
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: from the 90s. And I really liked the chord progression.
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: So I made a song with that exact chord progression
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: in that key, but because it's a folk song, you know,
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: it's not like it's just, it sounds very different. No where. Yeah.
• 30:38
  Speaker 2: It's not like, Oh, this is a copy of that
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: one song. It's like, it's in, that's kind of one
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: of those moments in the tradition of like Dolly Parton and, uh,
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: you know, people who just sing the same song with
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: different lyrics. Like, 20 times all these different artists you
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: know i mean it's like that's like a folk tradition
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: so it just kind of depends on depends on what
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: i'm right maybe it usually depends on what kind of
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: rut i'm feeling like i'm in and what i need
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: to do to try to get out of it so.
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: Do you find yourself to be like one of those
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: people where you can't help but write songs? Is it
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: just something where it feels as natural as breathing or
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: drinking water? Like, does it just feel like something like
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: you could be 80 years old and, you know, in
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: the hospital, you know, hospice or whatever, and you're still
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: going to be writing songs? Like, does it feel like
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: one of those things where you just can't help but
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: write music?
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: I think so. I write, you know, I mean, even
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: if I'm just like, you know, I'm making up a
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: song and singing it to my dog in the kitchen,
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: like I am I won't pretend not to be this
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: like musical person or something, you know, like have some
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: kind of like cooler mystique to it or something. But
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: in reality, like I do think that I am meant
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: to write songs and yeah. I mean, I remember when
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: we got home from Europe, uh, I think maybe 2015
• 32:13
  Speaker 2: or 16, I can't remember, but I was, depressed. We had,
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: we'd been touring too much classically. Every single band will
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: tell you those moments where like you're saying yes to
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: everything and you think that this is just like what
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: you got to do. And you do kind of have to, unfortunately,
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: but it's why some of us, we just get so
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: burnt out and so depressed. And when I got home,
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: I told we had a, a tour camera. I think
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: it was like a thrice tour or something. It was
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: like thrice. And then law dispute was direct support. And
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: then it'd be us, which, um, you know, at the time.
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: That's a great ticket.
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: It is great. And what's funny is we're homies with
• 32:53
  Speaker 2: these bands now and like we just did a tour
• 32:55
  Speaker 2: with Law Dispute and they're like having this viral massive moment.
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: We're playing to like 2,500 people and it's like at
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: the time I just thought I was depressed. I didn't
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: want to be around anyone anymore that I was touring with.
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: I was in debt.
• 33:12
  Speaker 2: I felt like dissatisfied with the label situation and just,
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: just everything. And I told our agent and everybody like
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: no to the tour. And I was like, maybe I'm
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: just done with, maybe I'll just never write another rock song.
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: Like I'm just so fucking done with this. I'm, I'm
• 33:30
  Speaker 2: going to like get a job in a warehouse somewhere
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: moving like bags of sand or something. And then, yeah.
• 33:39
  Speaker 2: And that was one of those things too, where it
• 33:40
  Speaker 2: was like, no offense to the bands, but I was like,
• 33:46
  Speaker 2: What do I want to play to some crowd that's
• 33:48
  Speaker 2: probably not going to like us? And I'm going to
• 33:51
  Speaker 2: be in the green room two weeks and the crowd's
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: not liking us. They're not buying our merch. And I'm
• 33:56
  Speaker 2: listening to people just screaming and yelling off in the
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: distance on stage. And I'm going to just be like, God,
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: I wish I was home. I hate my life. But
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: now it's like I'm in a different space. But even then,
• 34:12
  Speaker 2: as soon after that, I just... like felt inspired and
• 34:19
  Speaker 2: started writing again sometime after that, you know, it was
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: kind of a while and nobody, and everybody was kind
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: of upset with me that is on my team. And
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: they were like, you're going to, you're probably going to
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: be done if you take like a long break. Cause
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: you can't do that.
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 34:36
  Speaker 2: And, uh, yeah, I mean, eventually you just feel inspired
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: and something clicks and And also, you know, it's probably
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: how I... It's probably therapeutic for me. So, yeah, because
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: I get that way every once in a while still.
• 34:59
  Speaker 2: But I think writing is part of the cure for me.
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah. You mentioned just kind of this experience with, like, touring.
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: And I'm curious for, like, especially, like, a band like
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: from Indian Lakes, how... What are the factors that you
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: maybe feel like the most important factors for whether or
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: not you're going to say yes or no to a tour?
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: What are those factors that I would imagine would make
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: it or break it in terms of you just enjoying
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: the two or three or four weeks or however long
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: you'd be on tour? There must be some level of
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: factors or most important factors to you in deciding whether
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: you say yes or no. Well, I mean, now.
• 35:45
  Speaker 2: we're really good at touring, which, you know, I'm, I'm
• 35:49
  Speaker 2: more comfortable on tour than I am at home because
• 35:51
  Speaker 2: I've been doing it for, I mean, now it's been
• 35:56
  Speaker 2: 15 plus years. I started touring when I was in
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: my teens. So it's like, you kind of just get
• 36:03
  Speaker 2: good at, you know, you know exactly what you're doing,
• 36:07
  Speaker 2: why you're doing what you're doing that day. You have
• 36:10
  Speaker 2: a routine that, it's just a different kind of vibe.
• 36:14
  Speaker 2: And so choosing a tour is, you know, our crew,
• 36:19
  Speaker 2: half the reason we get invited on all these tours,
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: cause I've, it's kind of interesting. I have people constantly
• 36:24
  Speaker 2: being like, why are you guys getting all these good tours?
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: Which is a little bit of a burn, but I
• 36:29
  Speaker 2: understand what they're saying is like, you know, it's not
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: like we're young, like TikTok 25 year olds or something.
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: Like why, why are we getting all these like good tours?
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: But it's partly because we're, We have a reputation for
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: being extremely mellow on tour and mellow to be around.
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: We're respectful. We came from basements and house shows, and
• 36:55
  Speaker 2: we care about who we're on tour with and the
• 37:01
  Speaker 2: venues and the people that work at the venues. And
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: we're just kind of one of those kind of classic bands.
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: We're from small towns. So we also kind of have
• 37:11
  Speaker 2: a little bit of that small town vibe to us
• 37:14
  Speaker 2: when it comes to how we treat people and how
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: we act. And so usually when we're getting invited on
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: a tour, it's because they think we sound cool enough,
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: but they also have heard from people that we're going
• 37:26
  Speaker 2: to make the tour pretty chill. So I think the
• 37:30
  Speaker 2: tours we get invited on usually make sense. And if
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: they don't make sense... it's like we had some homies
• 37:40
  Speaker 2: that we love their music and would have been a
• 37:46
  Speaker 2: sick tour, but like the venues on the tour, we
• 37:49
  Speaker 2: were like, like we're that we're to that point in
• 37:51
  Speaker 2: our career where we were just like, yeah, we're not
• 37:52
  Speaker 2: playing these venues. Like a few of these, we've just
• 37:58
  Speaker 2: had such bad experiences at that. We were like, no thanks.
• 38:03
  Speaker 2: You know, it can be that simple where we're like, Oh,
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: this would be sick. But, it's a little bit of
• 38:07
  Speaker 2: an inconvenient time to go on tour and the venues,
• 38:12
  Speaker 2: you know, one of the venues were banned from actually
• 38:16
  Speaker 2: was part of the discussion of us being the way
• 38:19
  Speaker 2: we are. It's really funny that there's like a couple
• 38:21
  Speaker 2: of venues that were banned from for reasons that.
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: I'm just imagining.
• 38:27
  Speaker 2: I want to say outside of our control, but that's
• 38:28
  Speaker 2: not true.
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: I get like some like maybe crazy hardcore bands or
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: something being, you know, like G.G. Allen type bands that
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: are getting banned from venues. But like, I'm trying to
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: imagine like what you guys would have been able to
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: do that would have gotten you banned from some place.
• 38:40
  Speaker 2: There's a lot of popular punk and hardcore bands that
• 38:43
  Speaker 2: don't stick to their principles the way that a band
• 38:46
  Speaker 2: like ours will, which is like, I know a big
• 38:49
  Speaker 2: thing to say, but only in recent years. the more
• 38:52
  Speaker 2: people I know and the more people talk to me
• 38:54
  Speaker 2: about what some bands do that are supposed to stand
• 38:58
  Speaker 2: for certain things. And I'm just like, wow, that's interesting
• 39:02
  Speaker 2: because a band like ours, you know, somebody will try
• 39:07
  Speaker 2: to charge us a merch cut or something and we'll
• 39:12
  Speaker 2: be like, fuck off, you know? And it's like, that's
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: the kind of thing that, will get you in a
• 39:19
  Speaker 2: lot of trouble with your agents and the promoters and
• 39:21
  Speaker 2: different stuff. But people act like they care about that
• 39:25
  Speaker 2: stuff until it's time to, to do it. And it's like,
• 39:29
  Speaker 2: you know, that's the kind of stuff that'll get you banned.
• 39:32
  Speaker 2: Even if you weren't like assholes in a traditional sense.
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 39:37
  Speaker 2: So yeah, stuff like that. Or, uh, there's another venue
• 39:42
  Speaker 2: we're banned from because we were playing and they had
• 39:46
  Speaker 2: misprinted their schedule sheet for the show. So the sound
• 39:50
  Speaker 2: guy gave us the like, this is your last song suddenly.
• 39:58
  Speaker 2: And we were only like 30-ish minutes into our set
• 40:03
  Speaker 2: or something. And it was a headlining show. And so
• 40:06
  Speaker 2: we were like, okay, that can't be true. So we
• 40:09
  Speaker 2: just kind of ignored them. And then they like turned
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: the sound off after like a couple songs. And so
• 40:16
  Speaker 2: it turned into this whole... thing and it's this like
• 40:19
  Speaker 2: old punk venue that's very famous and the staff is
• 40:23
  Speaker 2: not nice which normally we're so polite that it's like
• 40:28
  Speaker 2: who cares we can we can get along with anybody
• 40:30
  Speaker 2: but this was like one of those moments that was
• 40:33
  Speaker 2: what could create a hostile hostile environment right and so
• 40:40
  Speaker 2: by the time we left these guys were like you're
• 40:42
  Speaker 2: never playing here again because we our team was like
• 40:46
  Speaker 2: you know not happy Right.
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: So I would imagine. So that's, yeah.
• 40:51
  Speaker 2: Sorry. I'm, I'm really bad at like, when I do interviews,
• 40:55
  Speaker 2: I always get things, steer, steer things in different directions
• 40:59
  Speaker 2: than what it's interesting.
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: You mentioned a bit ago about like a, a huge
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: factor for why you're invited. You guys' band is invited
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: on good tours is the fact that you all are
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: chill and And the amount of times that Cullen and
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: I hear this, um, and it's not even just maybe
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: for tours, but just like why certain band members get asked, uh,
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: you know, like if there's somebody who wasn't like an
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: original member, but they like get added to the band
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: later on, almost always the, the answer is, well, I
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: just was like, we were like, chill. Like they were like,
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: and it's just funny how like, because at, at the
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: level that, you know, when you're touring, you're recording professionally,
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: all of those sorts of things, when you're at that level,
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: like everybody's talented to some degree. Obviously some people are
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: more talented than others, but like everybody's talented to some
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: degree where it's not like you have like some, you know,
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: middle school kid that's, you know, not, doesn't know what
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: they're doing on a guitar or drums or whatever. So
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: like you, you, everyone is talented enough to like be there.
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: It's like, so like all these other factors end up
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: making a huge difference. And it seems as if like
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: the biggest one is just like, are you a good hang?
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: If you're a good hang, then you're going to get
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: great opportunities. And if you're not a good hang, you're
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: probably not going to get many opportunities because there's going
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: to be somebody who is just as talented as you
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: that is going to be a good hang. Yeah.
• 42:21
  Speaker 2: We all know the people that have been difficult to
• 42:24
  Speaker 2: tour with. All the bands in every scene. Especially a
• 42:29
  Speaker 2: band like ours. We are like a crew's band. Every
• 42:32
  Speaker 2: crew that does merch or sound or whatever at this
• 42:36
  Speaker 2: point on every tour that you see I feel like
• 42:40
  Speaker 2: they all were homies with all of them. So like
• 42:42
  Speaker 2: anytime I'm hanging with anybody and you know, they're probably
• 42:45
  Speaker 2: going to talk some shit and everybody knows like which
• 42:48
  Speaker 2: bands are not chill. And so, you know, and sometimes
• 42:53
  Speaker 2: it can just be harmless, you know, or sometimes it's
• 42:56
  Speaker 2: like horrible stuff. But in, in general, it's just easier to,
• 43:01
  Speaker 2: I mean, a lot of the homies that I first
• 43:05
  Speaker 2: was touring with, you know, they'd either, stop because maybe
• 43:09
  Speaker 2: they wanted to like go back to school or they'd
• 43:11
  Speaker 2: start whatever the career they had intended or whatever. And
• 43:16
  Speaker 2: they were originally, we would just be hanging and it
• 43:19
  Speaker 2: was like, we should like, you should tour with us.
• 43:23
  Speaker 2: You know, it's like, let's figure out the drums. Let's
• 43:28
  Speaker 2: figure out some keys or whatever. You know, it's like
• 43:30
  Speaker 2: a lot of the homies that I grew up with
• 43:32
  Speaker 2: would just be like, Oh, like you need a drummer.
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: Like I'll figure it out. And then you'd see us
• 43:41
  Speaker 2: and maybe the set was a little, a little rough,
• 43:46
  Speaker 2: but it's like, whatever, we're just like playing shows and
• 43:50
  Speaker 2: we want to be around people that are chill. And
• 43:51
  Speaker 2: when you tour with people that aren't nice to be
• 43:54
  Speaker 2: on tour with, it's no matter how good at music
• 43:58
  Speaker 2: they are, it's just like touring is like, if you're
• 44:04
  Speaker 2: on an opening slot on a tour, I don't think
• 44:07
  Speaker 2: people realize like your set is like 30 minutes of
• 44:10
  Speaker 2: your day.
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 44:11
  Speaker 2: And the rest of the day is with somebody who
• 44:14
  Speaker 2: maybe is making your life miserable. So it's like, you
• 44:17
  Speaker 2: can absolutely justify having somebody that you love being around
• 44:24
  Speaker 2: who is half as good at music as somebody else.
• 44:28
  Speaker 2: Like you can, you can definitely find a way to
• 44:32
  Speaker 2: justify that and be like, yeah, that's, That's better because,
• 44:36
  Speaker 2: you know, I'd rather be in a van with this
• 44:39
  Speaker 2: person or, you know.
• 44:40
  Speaker 1: Right, right. Just because, yeah, they're easier to get along with. They,
• 44:44
  Speaker 1: you know, maybe work hard or they're, yeah, they're kind,
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: whatever it might be.
• 44:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, totally.
• 44:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah. When you look back at your career now with
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: From Indian Lakes, and it's been 17 years since the
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: first album came out, you know, like I would imagine
• 44:58
  Speaker 1: it's like close to half your life.
• 45:00
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 45:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Because how old are you now?
• 45:04
  Speaker 2: Uh, I am 37, 37. So yeah, like I've been
• 45:08
  Speaker 2: 37 for two years. So, cause I told everyone I
• 45:12
  Speaker 2: was 37 last year too.
• 45:15
  Speaker 1: So like, I mean, nearly half of your life you've
• 45:17
  Speaker 1: been doing this band.
• 45:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: I'm just like curious, like when you think back to
• 45:22
  Speaker 1: like all of these years of doing this band, yeah. Like,
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: like what, what comes to mind? Like what, what are
• 45:27
  Speaker 1: some of those, like maybe the cool things that happen
• 45:31
  Speaker 1: or like, the things that you're maybe most proud of,
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: but yeah, like what, what are, what are some of
• 45:35
  Speaker 1: those things that come to mind when you think of, of, uh, your,
• 45:38
  Speaker 1: I don't know if you'd think of it as like legacy,
• 45:40
  Speaker 1: but yeah, when you think back to your, uh, all the,
• 45:42
  Speaker 1: all of these years and from Indian lakes.
• 45:46
  Speaker 2: I mean, I think I've met a lot of my heroes,
• 45:49
  Speaker 2: which is really cool. Um, and some of those heroes,
• 45:56
  Speaker 2: me and my dudes have awesome memories with, and America,
• 46:00
  Speaker 2: different countries, you know, just like really special, cool things
• 46:06
  Speaker 2: that when you, you know, you're getting a tattoo in
• 46:10
  Speaker 2: a hotel room in Paris and you're on tour with
• 46:17
  Speaker 2: Circus Revive and RX Bandits and, you know, life is crazy.
• 46:21
  Speaker 2: You know, it's like those kinds of moments are really special.
• 46:24
  Speaker 2: And then, yeah, I mean, then there's also just being
• 46:28
  Speaker 2: back in A while back, we moved back to the
• 46:31
  Speaker 2: area that I grew up in and going into bars
• 46:37
  Speaker 2: and people talking to me about the music and, you know,
• 46:43
  Speaker 2: that's special. Most of the time, those interactions are nice.
• 46:48
  Speaker 2: Sometimes they're harsh. Sometimes it's some young person telling me
• 46:53
  Speaker 2: they used to love my music or something and me
• 46:58
  Speaker 2: saying thanks. And then when they walk away, the person
• 47:00
  Speaker 2: next to me being like, I don't think they realize
• 47:02
  Speaker 2: that's actually pretty harsh.
• 47:05
  Speaker 1: Like, yeah. Like you saying used to like, Oh.
• 47:07
  Speaker 2: Man, I used to listen to you all the time.
• 47:09
  Speaker 2: It's like, you know, until I, until I wised up
• 47:11
  Speaker 2: is basically what they're saying. You know what I mean?
• 47:12
  Speaker 2: But it's like, even that stuff, it's, it's cool. Like I,
• 47:18
  Speaker 2: it is harsh, but like ultimately it's to have made
• 47:21
  Speaker 2: anything that at any point on the timeline, anybody, is
• 47:26
  Speaker 2: connected to is is you know the industry is huge
• 47:31
  Speaker 2: and there's so many people making music to be in
• 47:34
  Speaker 2: that kind of top 5% of making anything that anyone
• 47:41
  Speaker 2: is a fan of right you know is like super
• 47:44
  Speaker 2: cool it's very cool so so yeah I think when
• 47:48
  Speaker 2: I think about legacy stuff it's mostly cool yeah I
• 47:53
  Speaker 2: don't really think about that stuff often because I write
• 47:58
  Speaker 2: so much and I'm constantly, I play in so many
• 48:02
  Speaker 2: different projects and I feel like I'm just always, and
• 48:06
  Speaker 2: you know, people will tell you that I am an
• 48:08
  Speaker 2: extremely present person, uh, to a fault. So like that's, yeah,
• 48:16
  Speaker 2: I don't look back that often, but, but, uh, yeah,
• 48:21
  Speaker 2: I don't know if that answers.
• 48:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. For sure. Yeah.
• 48:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah.
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: I would imagine like to some degree, like if you,
• 48:27
  Speaker 1: cause I'm sure that first album must've, must've came out
• 48:30
  Speaker 1: when you were like in your early twenties. Like I
• 48:32
  Speaker 1: can't imagine that like you put that album out when
• 48:36
  Speaker 1: you're in your early twenties and you can't imagine that
• 48:38
  Speaker 1: 17 years later, you're still doing this. Like I, and
• 48:41
  Speaker 1: maybe that was a dream or a goal, but like
• 48:44
  Speaker 1: it's maybe at when you're 20 or 21 years old
• 48:46
  Speaker 1: or 19 or however old you were, I can't imagine
• 48:49
  Speaker 1: that you would have thought that like that actually would happen.
• 48:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, especially at the time, we were just
• 48:55
  Speaker 2: playing local shows when I was like 19, 20. And
• 49:01
  Speaker 2: a band came through. I'm still really close to one
• 49:03
  Speaker 2: of the guys. Well, I'm close to a couple of them,
• 49:05
  Speaker 2: but I talk almost every week with one of them.
• 49:09
  Speaker 2: And he was like, they were on tour and they
• 49:15
  Speaker 2: were like, you guys have something you should record. it
• 49:22
  Speaker 2: like professionally. And we had already done a tour when
• 49:28
  Speaker 2: I was like 19 and it just went, it was
• 49:30
  Speaker 2: so harsh. It was just one of those classic, like
• 49:33
  Speaker 2: you just book a bunch of shows for like 20
• 49:36
  Speaker 2: days and no one's there. And, um, bars and you
• 49:40
  Speaker 2: know it's very just it's very much like alright I
• 49:42
  Speaker 2: guess we'll just I'll sign back up for more classes
• 49:45
  Speaker 2: and just get back to reality so like yeah I
• 49:48
  Speaker 2: never thought that even just recently with like us playing
• 49:52
  Speaker 2: these Circus Survive reunion shows in the fall getting texts
• 49:57
  Speaker 2: from Anthony about songs we're working on or like things
• 50:02
  Speaker 2: will happen and I'll just be like you know I'll
• 50:05
  Speaker 2: tell my wife like this is such a like bizarre
• 50:08
  Speaker 2: like uh you know 16 year old me would just
• 50:14
  Speaker 2: be like well yeah what like wouldn't understand the context
• 50:18
  Speaker 2: of this you know what i mean yeah of yeah
• 50:21
  Speaker 2: so it's like yeah it's it's very strange to think
• 50:27
  Speaker 2: about yeah i never would every single thing that's ever
• 50:30
  Speaker 2: happened to us i i genuinely people think that i'm
• 50:32
  Speaker 2: a pessimist but i just i think i'm a realist
• 50:35
  Speaker 2: and i never think anything even this year, last year,
• 50:39
  Speaker 2: like anything that's happening, I just am shocked at all
• 50:43
  Speaker 2: times that it's, you know, the universe is mysterious.
• 50:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 50:48
  Speaker 2: So yeah.
• 50:49
  Speaker 1: Love that. You mentioned a bit ago, like you're, you're
• 50:54
  Speaker 1: kind of in this place of constantly writing. I know
• 50:56
  Speaker 1: it's only been like two years since a head void
• 50:59
  Speaker 1: came out, but could we, as from Indian lakes fans,
• 51:02
  Speaker 1: could we expect any new music anytime soon? Like where
• 51:05
  Speaker 1: are you at in that process?
• 51:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm listening to mixes right now and sending notes.
• 51:10
  Speaker 1: Oh, damn.
• 51:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, did an album with Will Yip, which is just
• 51:19
  Speaker 2: the whole thing is so strange that he's so visible
• 51:24
  Speaker 2: right now. And I don't know why he has chosen
• 51:28
  Speaker 2: to spend time with me because everyone is bothering him.
• 51:34
  Speaker 2: But it is pretty sick. We made an album that
• 51:37
  Speaker 2: is like very, very awesome. I, I'm not sure if
• 51:42
  Speaker 2: it's the best Phil record, but it's definitely like gonna
• 51:48
  Speaker 2: hit and it's really special. And yeah, I don't know. It's,
• 51:55
  Speaker 2: it's like very much the next thing from head void
• 51:59
  Speaker 2: that is different, but kind of, it just feels like very,
• 52:04
  Speaker 2: it feels like head void was like closer to realizing
• 52:08
  Speaker 2: what the band sounds like. And I think this album
• 52:11
  Speaker 2: is another, like really close to that. Yeah. It's just,
• 52:16
  Speaker 2: it's really, I really, really think it's awesome. Yeah.
• 52:21
  Speaker 1: One of the things that I've always loved about the
• 52:23
  Speaker 1: albums that he produces, uh, will get produces is he,
• 52:26
  Speaker 1: he like, he's able to sort of capture this sound
• 52:30
  Speaker 1: that feels like, so full from like for a band,
• 52:34
  Speaker 1: a lot of, especially in the more recent albums that, uh,
• 52:37
  Speaker 1: that he's been putting out, uh, there's just some really
• 52:40
  Speaker 1: something just that feels really full. And also, you know,
• 52:43
  Speaker 1: you add like all of the sort of layers of
• 52:45
  Speaker 1: sounds that a lot of times, a lot of the
• 52:46
  Speaker 1: bands that he's been producing add, there's just, yeah, it
• 52:49
  Speaker 1: just feels like very luscious and full. A lot of
• 52:51
  Speaker 1: the albums, whether it's like more of like a hardcore
• 52:52
  Speaker 1: album or alternative rock or whatever it is that he's doing. Um,
• 52:55
  Speaker 1: there's something really full and luscious about the sounds that
• 52:58
  Speaker 1: he's been able to, to put out lately.
• 53:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, him and I are really, really similar. When we
• 53:04
  Speaker 2: were working together from week one, it was like, oh man,
• 53:08
  Speaker 2: this is so easy. This is going to be easy.
• 53:14
  Speaker 2: And he was in the room more than he thought
• 53:18
  Speaker 2: he would be because we were just clicking so well
• 53:21
  Speaker 2: and the songs were just coming together so well. And
• 53:26
  Speaker 2: we like a lot of the same rock records more
• 53:30
  Speaker 2: we're agreeing on a lot of the same, like kind of,
• 53:36
  Speaker 2: you know, it's like, Oh, you know, like Butch Vig
• 53:40
  Speaker 2: style or like, like, uh, you're kind of like during
• 53:47
  Speaker 2: the discussions of like recording everything, like we, we are
• 53:50
  Speaker 2: in line a lot. And so a lot of his
• 53:52
  Speaker 2: records talking to him about them is awesome because, you know,
• 54:00
  Speaker 2: like title fight. And I mean, we've toured with, I'm really,
• 54:03
  Speaker 2: really close to the guys in balancing composure and they know,
• 54:06
  Speaker 2: they know that I'm like also just a massive fan.
• 54:09
  Speaker 2: Like I love their band so much and I've been
• 54:12
  Speaker 2: lucky to like be a part of some of their
• 54:15
  Speaker 2: recordings and like, yeah, I just think he, he makes
• 54:21
  Speaker 2: stuff that just like, it sounds awesome, but it retains like,
• 54:29
  Speaker 2: most of the bands, you know, it's, it retains, it retains,
• 54:32
  Speaker 2: like we were talking about the dice pits record that
• 54:34
  Speaker 2: he made.
• 54:34
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 54:35
  Speaker 2: And it's just like, I saw them years ago open
• 54:41
  Speaker 2: for Amel and the Sniffers. And I was like, this
• 54:46
  Speaker 2: band is going to be so huge. Like, and the
• 54:49
  Speaker 2: people I was with were like, yeah, you know, there's
• 54:51
  Speaker 2: the music's fun. You know? And I was like, no,
• 54:54
  Speaker 2: they're going to be massive. Like, and the swag that
• 54:58
  Speaker 2: they have like comes through on the record they made
• 55:02
  Speaker 2: with will like, and I, we, him and I talked
• 55:05
  Speaker 2: about how important that is. It's like the album needs
• 55:09
  Speaker 2: to sound good and all that, but a band that
• 55:14
  Speaker 2: has that much swag, like he agreed that like your
• 55:18
  Speaker 2: job was almost like 80% to make sure that swag
• 55:22
  Speaker 2: comes through.
• 55:23
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 55:23
  Speaker 2: Right. And it does. you know, same with like hyper
• 55:26
  Speaker 2: view from title fight or whatever.
• 55:27
  Speaker 1: It's like, right.
• 55:28
  Speaker 2: The swag just like comes through. Even if somebody who
• 55:32
  Speaker 2: is just like a very, someone who thinks in sort
• 55:35
  Speaker 2: of linear terms, like if they're like, yeah, these songs
• 55:38
  Speaker 2: are okay. It's like the vibes are just so high
• 55:44
  Speaker 2: on that record.
• 55:45
  Speaker 1: You know? Yeah. He just like his discovery, I'm looking
• 55:48
  Speaker 1: through his catalog right now and it's just like, every
• 55:51
  Speaker 1: band is like so freaking good. It's just crazy. Like, yeah. Yeah.
• 55:54
  Speaker 2: A lot of, a lot of the, he's got great taste.
• 55:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah. He just, he really knows what he's doing and
• 55:59
  Speaker 1: does it well. And yeah, it just, it just seems
• 56:01
  Speaker 1: like the, he taught like everything he touches is gold.
• 56:06
  Speaker 1: And it's certainly one of those things where like the
• 56:08
  Speaker 1: bands that he's working with right now, whether they're newer
• 56:10
  Speaker 1: or older bands, they just are, these are all bands
• 56:13
  Speaker 1: that are just like really respected in their respective scenes.
• 56:15
  Speaker 1: So he like, again, he just like really has a
• 56:18
  Speaker 1: clear vision of what he's doing and he's nailing it
• 56:21
  Speaker 1: he's so good yeah so.
• 56:22
  Speaker 2: He's awesome he's awesome and yeah i'm excited for i'm
• 56:28
  Speaker 2: excited for people to hear it i'm a little nervous
• 56:31
  Speaker 2: because of how every day it feels like he's more
• 56:34
  Speaker 2: and more famous and like visible and i'm like okay
• 56:38
  Speaker 2: i don't want people to get their hopes like too
• 56:40
  Speaker 2: high i was hoping to like surprise people so so
• 56:44
  Speaker 2: we'll see.
• 56:46
  Speaker 1: Well, I'll keep my, when I think of from Indian lakes,
• 56:48
  Speaker 1: I think of keeping my hopes very, very low. So
• 56:51
  Speaker 1: I'll make sure.
• 56:53
  Speaker 2: I know you're kidding, but I appreciate that. Honestly, like
• 56:57
  Speaker 2: that's the kind of thing that people usually think I'm kidding,
• 57:00
  Speaker 2: but it's like, that's what you just said is actually
• 57:01
  Speaker 2: perfect for me.
• 57:03
  Speaker 1: Perfect. Great. I'll keep them low then. I'll keep them
• 57:05
  Speaker 1: low and then I'll be, I'll always be surprised then.
• 57:07
  Speaker 1: So cool, Joe. Well, what do you want to plug?
• 57:10
  Speaker 1: So obviously it sounds like eventually new material will come out.
• 57:13
  Speaker 1: obviously you guys are touring quite a bit. Yeah. What
• 57:15
  Speaker 1: do you want to plug?
• 57:19
  Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, I would say everyone, you know, listen
• 57:23
  Speaker 2: to Ed Void and all that, and then prepare for
• 57:27
  Speaker 2: whenever I wish I knew when anything was going to happen,
• 57:31
  Speaker 2: but that's kind of like the nature of working with
• 57:34
  Speaker 2: famous people is that I don't create the schedule. So
• 57:39
  Speaker 2: I'm not sure when new stuff's going to come out,
• 57:40
  Speaker 2: but should be pretty soon.
• 57:43
  Speaker 1: Well, yeah, it sounds like, I mean, if you're getting
• 57:45
  Speaker 1: mixes back, it sounds like it's going to be sooner
• 57:47
  Speaker 1: rather than later. Yeah.
• 57:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah. No, I mean, and it's sounding awesome. So.
• 57:52
  Speaker 1: Love it. Love it. Sweet. Anything else you'd like to plug, Joe? No.
• 57:59
  Speaker 1: No problem. Well, I am just, I feel very honored
• 58:04
  Speaker 1: to interview you again, like from Indian lakes is just
• 58:06
  Speaker 1: like one of those bands that I've been listening to
• 58:09
  Speaker 1: for a very, very long time. You know, you're, you're, Again,
• 58:12
  Speaker 1: that first album, I was listening to that all throughout
• 58:15
  Speaker 1: high school. It was just like one of my favorites.
• 58:17
  Speaker 1: And so, yeah, I just feel very honored that whenever
• 58:20
  Speaker 1: I get to interview a band where it's like this
• 58:22
  Speaker 1: is a band that's been a part of my life
• 58:24
  Speaker 1: for a very long time, it just feels like special.
• 58:26
  Speaker 1: You know, you mentioned before that this project has allowed
• 58:29
  Speaker 1: you to meet a lot of your heroes. And that
• 58:31
  Speaker 1: certainly feels like the case for me when I'm doing
• 58:34
  Speaker 1: this podcast. So, yeah, for many, you guys have been
• 58:37
  Speaker 1: around for a while. and again, a band that I've
• 58:40
  Speaker 1: been listening to for quite some time. So I just, yeah,
• 58:42
  Speaker 1: I feel very honored, uh, for you to chat with me.
• 58:45
  Speaker 2: Wow. Thanks. That's, uh, I appreciate you saying that. That's,
• 58:49
  Speaker 2: that's really nice.
• 58:51
  Speaker 1: Oh, great. Well, thanks so much, Joe. Yeah.
• 58:53
  Speaker 2: Thanks a lot. I'm never coming back again. I'm never
• 59:20
  Speaker 2: coming back again.