Latest / Life Lived Better / Episode 148: Addiction - Loving Without Enabling: Supporting Someone Through Addiction

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Episode 148: Addiction - Loving Without Enabling: Supporting Someone Through Addiction · Life Lived Better

0:03
Hi, this is Paula. And I'm Joseph, and you're
0:06
listening to Life Lived Better. Well, welcome back to our series
0:12
on addiction. We have covered a lot of ground
0:16
on this topic. And in this episode, we're going
0:19
to be talking about the many pathways to recovery and share
0:22
questions that someone who is looking for addiction treatment
0:25
can ask before choosing the place to go to treatment.
0:29
We're also going to be turning our attention to the family,
0:31
which unfortunately is often forgotten when topics around
0:35
addiction and recovery are addressed.
0:38
So we want to take a look at how addiction impacts the family
0:41
because we know it definitely does and and it impacts family
0:45
and loved ones and give you some useful tools how to support
0:49
somebody with addiction without enabling them.
0:52
Love it. We have a lot to cover, so let's
0:55
get into it. So Paula, I know you have
0:59
searched and taught on the topic of many pathways to recovery and
1:02
you have mentioned that it seems to be a very controversial
1:06
topic. So can you talk a little bit
1:08
about the reasons it seems so controversial?
1:11
Sure, sure. Yeah, I worked on a grant for
1:13
almost 10 years at where we we developed curriculum for
1:18
addiction studies students. And one of the modules that I
1:23
developed was many pathways to recovery.
1:26
And if you think back like over 10 years ago, we were still kind
1:30
of at the end of treatment being all abstinence based, 12 step
1:37
modelled. We had just started kind of
1:39
opening the ideas of using other tools in recovery and like
1:45
accepting the idea that someone's in recovery if they
1:47
don't go to 12 step programs or maybe someone's in recovery if
1:52
they're in a medication assisted treatment program.
1:55
It's hard to believe that it's just been like in the last
1:58
decade or, or decade and 1/2 that we've opened our our minds
2:03
to that concept. But I think that's what made it
2:05
controversial is when people heard many pathways, I think
2:09
what they really heard was not abstinence and not 12 steps,
2:14
which is not at all what many pathways means.
2:18
It really just means all the stuff that you can do to enrich
2:23
and make your recovery as robust as possible.
2:27
And the concept of many pathways to recovery began.
2:31
It was put together by SAMSA, the the National Clearing House,
2:35
if you will, for the data related to substances and
2:38
addiction in the United States and many pathways.
2:42
Just the idea is that in in addiction and behavioral health,
2:47
there isn't just one right road to healing.
2:49
That different people take different approaches depending
2:52
on their needs, their cultures, their values, their goals and
2:56
recovery is personal. It's not a one-size-fits-all.
2:59
It's it's personal, it's social, it's clinical, it's spiritual,
3:04
it's secular. I mean, it's kind of a mix of
3:06
lots of different paths that somebody builds and it's about
3:10
kind of building health, Wellness, and meaningful life
3:14
changes, so improving the quality of life.
3:17
And we'll try to provide you a breakdown of some common ways
3:21
and pathways that people use. You know, it's not an exhaustive
3:25
list, but I think it'll show you kind of the breadth of options
3:29
included under the many pathways concept.
3:32
So there are many, like you've said, and I think we've talked
3:37
about this in the past, like everybody's journey is
3:40
different, but just to breakdown some of the clinical and
3:43
professional pathways. These, you know, involved
3:46
trained healthcare providers, licensed clinicians and formal
3:51
treatment settings. We have medical detox and
3:54
residential treatment, which is structured care for withdrawal
3:57
and stabilization. There's also outpatient,
4:00
intensive outpatient programs, IOP, PHP.
4:04
This is scheduled therapy while living in the community.
4:07
So you're able to still work and you know, do out thing, do
4:10
things. And then you go to these
4:12
meetings maybe in the evenings or in the mornings, couple times
4:15
a week. There are therapies with
4:16
clinicians and that includes things like cognitive behavioral
4:20
therapy, CBT, motivational interviewing, ACT, family
4:25
therapy, those types of things. And then there's medication
4:29
assisted treatment, which is often referred to as MAT, and
4:32
this is using medications like buprenorphine, methadone,
4:35
naltroxone to support people in recovery.
4:38
And then you have the holistic clinical services.
4:41
So this is integrated care like heart therapy, mindfulness,
4:44
yoga, all integrated with formal care.
4:47
And people can use multiple of these pathways, you know, I
4:52
think you just kind of get a combination of what works best
4:55
for you and it's in recovery. So that doesn't necessarily mean
4:59
that maybe someone doesn't get traditional treatment.
5:02
But we also have like a peer and community based pathways and
5:06
these don't require clinicians. They're more like community
5:09
driven and peer LED. So like the peer support
5:12
services, like we have recovery coaches now who are a great
5:17
addition to treat. They are people who have lived
5:21
experience in recovery and they can do recovery coaching and
5:24
peer support and help connect people with sober social
5:28
networks that that counselors can't do.
5:31
And then also the mutual aid groups that most people used to
5:35
refer to as self help, they've changed it to mutual aid just
5:39
because you're really not helping yourself.
5:40
It's peers helping one another. And that's like the 12 step
5:43
programs, A, A and NA. And then the ones that aren't 12
5:47
step like SMART Recovery and Women for Sobriety, etcetera.
5:52
And then they're also recovery community centers and recovery
5:55
housing. Like we have one of the biggest
5:57
in the nation in Dallas right next to Parkland Hospital.
6:01
And that's like a social support hub and that's like you can go
6:06
there and know sober people are hanging out.
6:08
And then also employment and education supports.
6:12
That's also something that strengthens recovery is programs
6:16
that help with job skills or helping people get into schools
6:20
or some sort of vocational goals that are connected to and
6:23
supportive of recovery. Some great options and for the
6:27
family, I know we may get into this later, but there's also
6:30
like Alan on groups and things like that that I think would
6:32
fall into that category. Absolutely.
6:35
So we also have personal and self-directed pathways.
6:38
So some people recover through changes that they make without
6:42
any of these things, just without formal programs.
6:45
And that might look like natural recovery or self change.
6:48
So personal transformation without formal services, using
6:53
self help tools like books, online programs or so many apps,
6:58
journaling, it's something I'm a huge fan of.
7:00
And just overall mindful practices.
7:03
And then there's lifestyle changes.
7:04
So making sure that your nutrition is good, that you're
7:07
exercising, that you're managing your stress, just meaningful
7:10
daily activities that change in a positive way.
7:13
I think that one is controversial because people in
7:18
the field might think you can't change without some sort of
7:22
professional intervention or professional, but people can.
7:26
I mean, we've known people that have lost significant amounts of
7:29
weight and change their whole lives because of that.
7:32
And they did that because one day they just got sick and tired
7:35
of being sick and tired and changed everything about their
7:38
eating and exercise regimen. So it's possible to make changes
7:42
on your own through all the resources we have before us and
7:46
in books and and on the Internet and through just maybe the help
7:50
of friends and doctors and such. Yeah.
7:53
And this is probably one that folks that don't have a
7:57
knowledge of treatment or maybe they don't believe in treatment
8:01
and maybe they have a family member that's struggling.
8:03
And I think this is kind of maybe the pathways they would
8:05
choose for their family member because they don't believe in
8:08
treatment, traditional treatment, just, you know, be
8:11
strong, be tough, get better self-control, that kind of that
8:15
kind of thinking. And I, one of the things that's
8:18
important to remember is that because you take one pathway
8:22
doesn't mean you stay on that pathway.
8:24
You may change, you know, you may go to a A for five years and
8:28
then realize you want to add therapy.
8:30
And then you also want to strengthen your spiritual life.
8:34
So you add a religious based group or something.
8:37
So it doesn't mean you commit to 1 and it's forever.
8:41
We also have the faith and culture and values based
8:44
pathways. And these are recovery supported
8:46
by cultural or spiritual context.
8:48
So these are the faith-based, faith-based recovery groups like
8:52
Celebrate Recovery, the one the, the, the recovery type programs
8:57
that are culturally grounded, spiritually grounded, and they
9:01
are for people who want to find some strength in a spiritual
9:05
community. And so there's lots of
9:07
traditions that are rooted in healing practices that would fit
9:11
into that that we want to incorporate.
9:14
So someone can read the Bible and the Big Book and it be just
9:18
something that just continues to strengthen and build their
9:21
recovery. And then there's some other
9:23
models and goals. So, you know, every goals
9:25
themselves can really differ in the pathways reflect that for
9:30
sure. One of the ways maybe just
9:32
abstinence focus so that this is like the traditional goal of
9:36
just stopping all substance use. So just completely abstaining
9:40
from everything. And then you have something
9:42
called harm reduction or managed use.
9:45
And this is something that's, you know, lots of opinions on
9:48
this one. The harm reduction is basically
9:50
reducing the harm rather than insisting that someone be
9:54
absent, give up, you know, complete.
9:57
And that that can look like that MAT treatment where someone
10:00
maybe uses medication to help kind of offset cravings, but
10:03
they're still using a little bit firm reductions about using
10:06
less. It's about using safer, maybe
10:09
less dangerous substances. So I think this is one that has
10:13
a lot of kind of controversy around it.
10:16
And then you have like the control their moderation goals.
10:18
So this is for individuals that are just looking to moderate
10:22
their use or reduce it as kind of their their preferred goal.
10:27
And when we mentioned controversial topics with at the
10:31
start of the episode, I had two controversial modules that I
10:36
created. The one was many pathways.
10:38
The other one was medication assisted treatment and that was
10:42
also controversial. So yes, they are.
10:45
And and, you know, we probably should mention, you know,
10:48
abstinence based traditional recovery and treatment is still
10:52
the number one way that people use.
10:55
It is still the most frequently used.
10:57
So we're not suggesting people not go that way.
11:00
I think ideally it is probably the safest way, Yeah.
11:04
And I think it's important to have shared about this topic of
11:07
many pathways to recovery, since not everyone knows that there
11:11
are multiple ways and supports that somebody can include in
11:14
their recovery process, that there's not just one way or just
11:18
one tool. And in the core idea is that
11:22
recovery is personal and flexible.
11:25
You know, it can be clinical, it can be community, it can be
11:29
personal, or it can be a blend of all of them.
11:32
Somebody might use multiple pathways, you know, at once, you
11:36
know, therapy and peer support and self help altogether.
11:39
Or for others, a single approach might be what they want.
11:43
Like they go to 12 steps and it's just, you know, the
11:46
lifestyle change with that, that program is what they need and
11:50
what works for them. I.
11:52
Just truly think it's one of those things where you have to
11:54
try, try multiple pathways for most people in order to kind of
11:58
figure out what works best for you.
12:00
And what I see a lot of folks is, is that it's a combination
12:04
of things like you said. And that it's very personal.
12:07
It's not something for us to judge or prescribe for someone
12:10
else. Yeah.
12:11
And I think a lot of people have like a very specific idea of
12:15
what they think recovery is. And then if you're not following
12:17
that specific way, then you're not really recovering.
12:21
Exactly. Exactly.
12:23
Yeah. So well, now let's transition
12:26
into how addiction really affects the family.
12:29
And one of the first points is that we need to address is that
12:33
addiction is the family disease. So it doesn't affect only the
12:36
person using substances. It really impacts the entire
12:40
family system. And family members often change
12:43
their behaviors, their roles and even emotions.
12:46
And in response to the addiction or the addicted person, overtime
12:51
the family can become organized around substance use rather than
12:54
healthy functioning and kind of kind of excusing the behavior.
12:59
And you know, it's and it's really just important to take
13:03
away from this one is just to remember that even if only one
13:06
person is using, everyone is affected around that person.
13:11
So important, so many clients go to treatment, they get
13:14
treatment, the family doesn't change anything.
13:17
And then they wonder why the client goes back to use when
13:20
they leave treatment and go back into that environment.
13:23
You know, the whole environment doesn't change.
13:25
It's difficult. And I, I, I'm sure I've said
13:28
this. I know I've said this before but
13:30
I think of the ripple effect dropping a Pebble in a puddle of
13:34
water and how it ripples out like the family is in the ripple
13:38
zone so it affects everyone. And I think about the fact that
13:44
an airplane leaves air, you know, air wake.
13:48
The boats leave a wake of, you know, waves behind them.
13:52
And sometimes the wake is so powerful it can destroy the
13:55
smaller crafts, you know, So it's the same thing with the
14:00
ripple effect of addiction. It can destroy the family, and
14:04
the family never uses a thing like.
14:06
That. There's also an emotional impact
14:09
on family members. Families that have addiction
14:13
going on inside of them will often experience chronic stress
14:18
and anxiety just like ever Looming chronic stress and
14:21
anxiety, a lot of fear about the safety of their loved one, about
14:26
overdose, of legal troubles. And then they'll experience
14:30
anger and resentment just like why are you doing this to us?
14:34
And lots of guilt and shame. Wondering, did I 'cause this?
14:37
Is it because of something I said or did?
14:40
Especially parents I. Think, Oh yeah, parents.
14:43
That's always, that's always a question for parents.
14:45
What did I do? Where did I go wrong?
14:47
Everything that a child does. Exactly.
14:51
And then there's grief and loss, you know, mourning the person
14:54
that they knew before the substances became part and
14:57
mourning the dream of what could be for them.
15:01
And then just emotional exhaustion and burnout because
15:04
it takes so much out of you to deal with someone elses
15:07
addiction because you have no control over it.
15:09
Just day after day. And those emotions can fluctuate
15:13
and sometimes exist all at one time.
15:16
Well, and something else is, you know, changes in the family
15:19
roles. So we talk about the family
15:20
roles. I think we have an episode way
15:23
back on, on the different roles that the family members play and
15:26
an addictive family. But it disrupts the normal
15:29
family roles and creates like survival based patterns.
15:33
And you know, for the different family roles, those things can
15:36
look like for the caretaker or the enabler, they try to fix,
15:40
rescue or manage the person that's using.
15:43
For the family hero, they've become overachievers to
15:46
compensate or bring stability to the family.
15:48
And the scapegoat really acts out and draws attention away
15:52
from the addiction. The lost child will withdraw
15:56
emotionally and typically becomes kind of invisible.
16:00
And then you have the mascot, which uses humor to reduce
16:03
tension. I love that one.
16:06
I do too. And these roles really help
16:08
families cope short term, but often it causes a lot of long
16:13
term harm. And maybe it's time for us to do
16:15
another episode about the family roles and rules.
16:18
Absolutely, yeah. There's also obviously an impact
16:21
on communication with a family. Communication might become
16:25
avoidant and, and definitely dishonest or just driven by
16:29
conflict. Lots of families feel like
16:31
they're walking on egg shells so they don't trigger the person's
16:35
use, which you, you, you aren't going to, you're not going to do
16:39
that, but we feel like we will. And lots of important topics are
16:43
avoided because you just have to kind of deal with the addiction
16:46
issue day after day. And so of course, lots of trust
16:49
breaks down because broken promises happen every day and
16:54
secrecy is required of the family because you don't really
16:57
want others to know about it. And it just results in families
17:01
that stop talking to each other and they start talking around
17:04
the big, huge problem. You know the elephant in the
17:06
room, if you will. That's so funny.
17:09
I'm printing a 3D elephant for my office so that we can talk
17:14
about the elephant in the room. That's.
17:17
Awesome, I love that. So some other things that it can
17:21
impact are the children and the effects on the children can be
17:25
extreme and and some of those may look like experiencing
17:29
really inconsistent caregiving. They sometimes will take on
17:33
adult responsibilities like too early in their life.
17:36
And this was something referred to as parentification.
17:39
I think that's a type of abuse too, isn't it?
17:42
Yeah, yeah. So they may feel confused.
17:44
They may feel unsafe or emotionally neglected.
17:48
They sometimes develop anxiety, depression and even like
17:51
behavioral issues are very common.
17:53
They also are at an increased risk level for, you know,
17:57
experiencing their own substance use later in life.
18:01
Often times, children often internalize that belief that
18:05
somehow this is my fault. You know, somehow I'm
18:08
responsible for this. Kids do that automatically.
18:11
They do that with divorce. They just, they don't have the
18:14
adults way to kind of make logic of the the things or separate
18:19
it. It's very sad for them to feel
18:21
responsible for use because even adults can't control another
18:26
person's use. And of course if there is
18:28
addiction going on, there's probably financial strain and
18:33
just the practical daily strain because addiction can lead to
18:37
loss of income or employment, medical, legal or even treatment
18:42
related debt that you wouldn't have otherwise.
18:45
Housing instability. If you're spending all your
18:48
paycheck on substances or you lose your job because of the
18:52
substances, it's hard to pay bills, it's hard to pay rent,
18:55
and sometimes even neglect of basic needs and ongoing crisis
19:00
management because things are just always in chaos.
19:03
And that's why families with substance use going on kind of
19:07
operate in a survival mode, just leaving little space for any
19:11
kind of emotional healing or deep work to be going on.
19:14
Yeah. And it's kind of like, you know,
19:16
people tend to really focus on the problem and not everything
19:21
else that's going on that's leading to the problem or
19:24
contributing to the problem. And you really have to look at
19:27
everything when you're dealing with, you know, treatment of
19:31
addiction. It's not just the addiction
19:33
itself. It's, it's all the other stuff,
19:35
the family, the emotions, the spiritual, the, you know, all of
19:39
it. Yes.
19:41
So it's clear that there are a lot of pathways and, and looking
19:45
into addiction treatment can really be overwhelming for a lot
19:48
of people. So something that's good is
19:50
having a good list of questions in your back pocket.
19:55
This really matters. It's really helpful.
19:57
So we're going to go over some clear and practical questions
20:01
organized by topic that people or even families can use to
20:05
figure out whether a program is ethical effective.
20:09
Or even a good fit. So as you call around and visit
20:13
treatment centers, here is an exhaustive list of some things
20:18
you might want to ask about the treatment programs you contact.
20:21
You might want to ask him about the treatment approach and
20:24
philosophy. You know, like what's your
20:26
approach to addiction treatment? And you know, is addiction a
20:29
disease? Do you think it's a behavior
20:31
issue? Do you deal with trauma or do
20:33
you use evidence based programs? And you know, is your treatment
20:38
individualized or is it A1 size fits all model?
20:41
And, and then do they address other issues and conditions that
20:45
a person might have, you know, other mental health issues or
20:49
PTSD or anything other than addiction?
20:52
Think that last one is super important.
20:55
So important. So something else is assessments
20:57
and personalization of the program.
20:59
So, you know, how do you assess a client before treatment
21:03
begins? Will the treatment be tailored
21:05
to the person's history, their substance use, and their
21:09
specific goals? And as a family member, am I
21:13
involved in setting the treatment?
21:15
Goals. Some people in treatment in the
21:18
profession would think that sounds very enabling of you to
21:21
ask, but honestly, you want a family member to be involved in
21:25
the client's treatment if it's going to be effective.
21:28
Well, the family sees so much of it that a lot of times the
21:32
person struggling does not. Exactly.
21:35
If they see it more objectively and then you want to look at the
21:39
medical care and medication, you know, is detox available right
21:43
there on side or does it have to be coordinated somewhere else?
21:47
Many treatment centers don't do detox.
21:49
You detox, then go to the treatment center.
21:51
So that has to be coordinated. And then if even if they don't
21:55
do detox, is there medical supervision at the treatment
21:58
center? Do you offer medications?
22:01
You know, can a client take medications while they're there?
22:04
Do you, can you take the medications that assist
22:06
treatment like like buprenorphine, Suboxone?
22:09
And how are medications monitored and adjusted?
22:13
And how do you manage withdrawal?
22:15
You know, how is that taking if you're not a withdrawal
22:18
facility? How do you make sure they're
22:20
safe? Yeah, that's that's a big one.
22:22
And a lot of people seeking treatment are generally really
22:26
concerned about withdrawals and how that's going to play about.
22:29
Something else that's important is asking about staff
22:31
qualifications. So questions like, you know,
22:34
what licenses and credentials do your counselors or clinicians
22:37
hold? Is there a licensed mental
22:39
health professional on staff, someone that you know,
22:42
psychiatrists that you know, can oversee things?
22:46
What training do staff have in specifically addiction, trauma
22:51
and ethics? What is the staff to client
22:54
ratio? Sometimes you have facilities
22:56
that have huge numbers of patients and not so many
22:58
counselors and so you want a good a good ratio.
23:02
And is the staff supervised regularly?
23:05
And I can already see some people answering the telephones
23:09
being very like, oh, come on with all these questions.
23:13
But you know, you're look, you're about to invest a lot of
23:16
money and time into something. You want it to be the best
23:20
option possible. You also want to find out about
23:22
the program structure, just like what daily life would look like,
23:26
what takes place in a typical day and how many hours a week
23:29
are spent in individual therapy versus group therapy.
23:32
You know, some facilities see a client three times a week
23:36
individually where others only do it once a week.
23:39
You know, does that matter to you?
23:40
And, you know, how does that play into your thoughts?
23:43
If they're going to residential treatment where they live there,
23:46
they have to be in services at least 30 hours a week.
23:49
Some places offer more than 30 hours a week, a week, you know,
23:52
is that what you're looking for? It may or may not be.
23:55
And what kind of groups are you offering?
23:57
Are there family sessions? Is there an opportunity for
24:00
family to get counseling too, you know, and how much structure
24:05
versus, you know, unstructured free time is there?
24:09
And you want to consider length of stay and level of care.
24:12
So you want to ask things like how long is the recommended
24:16
length of treatment? Is the length of stay flexible
24:19
based on progress? Some places it's, you know,
24:21
you're, you're 28 days or 30 days and I think sometimes
24:25
that's more insurance based and treatment based.
24:29
What levels of care do you offer?
24:31
Do you offer detox, residential, PHP, IOP, outpatient, aftercare,
24:37
things like that? And how do you determine when
24:39
someone is ready to step down or discharge from the program?
24:43
And I think that answer should be based on their progress, not
24:46
just everyone must be here 30 days and no longer no shorter,
24:52
right? And then you want to also look
24:54
at recovery support and aftercare.
24:56
So after treatment is finished, what kind of aftercare planning
25:00
is provided? You know, do they help with
25:03
preventing the return to use? Are there alumni programs or
25:07
follow up services? And, and do you connect clients
25:11
with community resources or support groups?
25:13
Or do you know, is that something they do on their own?
25:16
And how do you support clients right after their discharge when
25:19
they're early in their recovery? Yeah, in good case management
25:23
and discharge planning I think is super important.
25:25
It really is. It's, you know, that's called
25:28
the treatment gap. That's where so many recurrence
25:31
abuse cases happen. Well, and then also family
25:35
involvement is really important. So asking you know, how are
25:38
families involved in the treatment?
25:41
Do you offer family education or therapy for the family members?
25:45
How do you handle boundaries and confidentiality with family
25:49
members and do you help families understand addiction and
25:53
recovery? Because a lot of families don't
25:55
understand it and they need education.
25:58
And you also want to ask about their outcomes and
26:01
accountability because you might ask someone their success rate
26:05
and they may tell you. But honestly, you want to know
26:08
how do you measure the success? Because the like license
26:12
facilities, the state doesn't give us a way to manage, I mean,
26:16
to monitor or determine a treatment success.
26:19
So you want to find out what does that mean?
26:22
Does that mean 99% of the clients tested negative on urine
26:26
screens while they were in treatment?
26:28
You know that that doesn't, Or does that mean 80% of the
26:33
clients stayed in recovery a year after treatment?
26:36
You know, you want to find out that answer and how do they
26:40
track that? Where do they get that data, and
26:43
what do they do if somebody returns to use?
26:45
What happens if they do it during treatment or after
26:48
treatment? What are their options and how
26:50
do they support clients who are struggling once they are
26:53
discharged from the program or they're gone and not a official
26:57
client anymore? Great questions.
26:59
Then you have the question of ethics, safety and client
27:03
rights. So questions look like how do
27:05
you protect client confidentiality?
27:08
That's so incredibly important. Clients oftentimes don't want to
27:12
share things things because they fear who's going to find out
27:15
this information? Is this all going to go right
27:17
back to my family? So I think that's important to
27:20
understand upfront. What are the rights as a client?
27:24
What rights do I have when I'm here?
27:26
How do you handle grievances or complaints?
27:29
If there's an issue with another patient or even a therapist, how
27:32
do you handle that? What's your policy on
27:34
restraints, isolation, or discharge for rule violations?
27:40
Question. Non compliant stuff And how do
27:43
you ensure clients are treated with dignity and respect?
27:46
And then, of course, you know, you have to ask about the cost
27:50
if you're going to use insurance and just the transparency of all
27:53
of that. We're obligated to disclose any
27:56
cost formed by clients before they come into the program.
28:00
And that has to just be shared and it has to be in writing.
28:04
So you have to find out the cost of treatment, what it includes,
28:08
what it doesn't include. Do they accept your insurance?
28:12
And if it's like a situation where you're going to have to be
28:15
out of pocket something, how much is that?
28:18
And while the client is there, are there any additional fees
28:21
that I should expect, like, you know, walking around money or
28:24
field trips maybe that they take or items that they'll want to
28:28
purchase Some treatments at bookstores, you know, and the
28:31
counselor might, you know, recommend books out of the
28:34
bookstore. And what's the refund?
28:36
Or if there's an early discharge, what happens with the
28:40
money? Well, and when you're doing all
28:43
this homework, you also want to look out for red flags and some
28:47
things that you want to pay attention to is if they offer a
28:50
guarantee cure, 100% success rate that's actually just
28:57
recently learned about AI guess it would be called a procedure.
29:03
Maybe that can be done and on their website it's got to pay
29:07
cash $20,000 and it's 100% guaranteed to cure someone of
29:14
opioid addiction. Really.
29:18
Lots of great reviews and you know, companies aren't going to
29:21
post bad reviews so. What kind of proceed?
29:25
I'm going to have a look. At that, talk about it and we'll
29:27
talk about it offline. That is scary.
29:31
Pressure to commit immediately without an assessment.
29:34
So, you know, feeling like you have to like sign up right then
29:37
and there without gathering all the information necessary.
29:41
Lack of license or credentialed staff.
29:45
That's huge. You don't want to be working
29:48
with a lot of folks that you know, are not being monitored by
29:53
the state with her licensures, vague answers about treatment
29:57
methods or outcomes. So just having error or even
29:59
having trouble answering those types of questions and
30:03
discouraging outside support or even second opinions.
30:06
Like, you know, we've we've got it all all you need right here.
30:09
And you know, this is all you need to know.
30:11
And you know, probably talking poorly about other treatment
30:15
centers, things like that. Huge red flags.
30:18
That if they get just really upset with you for asking the
30:20
questions, this sounds like you just are going to want too much.
30:26
Yeah. And you know, realistically,
30:28
when you're calling these places, you may be talking to
30:30
just like an intake coordinator that can't answer all these
30:33
questions. So it might be more than one
30:36
conversation that you have to have.
30:37
Certainly we plan to end this episode with information about
30:42
how to support someone who has an addiction without enabling
30:45
them. However, after talking about it
30:48
a little more, we decided that that is such an involved topic,
30:51
it deserves its own episode. So we will cover that in our
30:54
next long episode. We hope that you valued the
30:58
information we've given you in this series up to this point,
31:01
and we look forward to you coming back with us for our next
31:05
conversation. And we want to come back to talk
31:09
about people who are have experiencing addiction and
31:12
supporting them without enabling them.
31:15
So important and if you know someone who would benefit from
31:19
the content in the series, we hope you will share it with
31:22
them. Keep interacting with us and one
31:24
another on our socials. Reach out to us to learn more
31:28
about the podcast. If you have questions, topic
31:32
ideas, you can go to our website.
31:34
Reach us through their life livebetter.net.
31:37
And as always, don't forget that knowledge leads to a life.
31:40
Live better. Thank you for listening to Life
31:47
Live Better with Paula and Joseph.
31:52
Yay. Thank you for listening to the
31:54
Life Live Better Podcast. Please subscribe, rate, review
31:57
and share our show with others you think will enjoy our
31:59
content. You can also find us on most
32:01
social media platforms and our website lifelivebetter.net.
32:05
This episode was written by Paula Garland, edited by Joseph
32:08
Massey, and recorded on Spotify. Information used in this episode
32:12
and other content data can be found in our show notes.
32:14
We look forward to seeing you again in two weeks.