Latest / NO FILTER / Joe Rogan Experience _2425 - Ethan Hawke(M4A_128K)

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Joe Rogan Experience _2425 - Ethan Hawke(M4A_128K) · NO FILTER

• 0:02
  Speaker 1: Roman Podcast check it out.
• 0:03
  Speaker 2: But Joe Rogan Experience Train My Day, Joe.
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: Rogan Podcast by Night. All Day's a nice Joe.
• 0:14
  Speaker 2: Nice to meet you.
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: Great to meet you. Man. It's weird when you've see
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: someone in so many fucking movies and then you meet
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: him in real life, Like, Okay, there's a regular person right.
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: There, Yeah, staring me in the face. He just took
• 0:24
  Speaker 2: a leak.
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah, dude, you've been in some fucking banger movies. Man,
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: it's like you've had an incredible career. Yeah, pull that sucker.
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: Uh yeah, you pull it towards me.
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's very good. Yeah, it's been a long, strange trip.
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: It's been a wild one. Huh. Yeah, when did you
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: start acting?
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: How old we all right, So I'm like twelve years old.
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: I don't have a winter sport. My mother doesn't know
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: what to do with me, and uh, my next door
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: neighbor you live like four houses down, and he took
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: an acting class at the Paul Robeson Center of Performing Arts,
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: and so my mother signed me up so that I
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: could get picked up by his mom, you know, taken
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: to acting class in the winter and get dropped off,
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: you know, and be at home, and I went there
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: and this head of a local theater company came by
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: to teach in improv seminar kind of thing. I'm twelve
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: years old, right, And afterwards in the parking lot, he said, hey,
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: you want to be in a play? I said, what
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: do you mean? He says, I got a part of
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: a guy who's a night. You get to have a sword.
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: And said, well, I have any lines? He said, you'll
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: have one line. I said, all right, cool. And I
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: asked my mom and she said, do I have to pay,
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: you know? And I said, I don't think so. I
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: think they're going to pay me. So I went and
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: I did this play and it was George Bernard Shaw's
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: Saint John at the Macarter Theater in New Jersey.
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: And it was a real play.
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it was. It was a proper play. And it
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: was an incredible experience, to be honest with you, because
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: my parents hated their jobs. You know, they would go
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: to work and their life happened on the periphery of
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: their employment. And my mom would take the train to
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: New York and so she wouldn't get home till seven
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: point thirty something. She would leave at dawn, and the
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: shoes as miserable at work, I mean. And I went
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: to this rehearsal and everyone was They were talking about
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: whether or not God existed, they were talking about what
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: they believed in. They would dress up in these crazy
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: outfits and then we did the play and they got
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: a standing ovation and it was so much fun. And
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: it was the first time I said, was that you
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: could do this for a living. You know, a lot
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: of the actors aren't people you've heard of or anything
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: like that, but they were real actors and they loved
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: their job. And the rehearsal room was still kind of
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: thrilling watching them figure out where people should stand and
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: what was important, what was a scene about, and what
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: was the theme of the play, and how could this
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: scene fit in with the larger content text. And I
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: just decided that's what I wanted to do. And a
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: lot of kids want to act, so that doesn't mean
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: very much. But I through this other friend of mine,
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: I started hearing about open casting calls in New York
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: and I asked my mom if I could go on
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: some of these big auditions, and again she said, is
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: it going to cost me any money? Said if I
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: paid for my own train fare, I could go to
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: these auditions. So I took some polaroids and went on
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: a few of these big auditions and I got one
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: of them, and it was for this big in nineteen
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: eighty four. It was a thirty million dollar movie directed
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: by the guy who just done Gremlins, right, Joe Dante,
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: And I thought I was a made man. I mean,
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: it was just it was absolutely incredible to be sucked
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: out of suburban America and brought to La. My first
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: scene partner was River Phoenix, and all of a sudden, Wow,
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: I'm in La. And you know, my mom couldn't quitter
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: or anything. So my mom had a really turbulent relationship
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: with her mother. But her mother, her mother and she
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: didn't really know each other, and so her mother said
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: she'd be my guardian, and my mom designed this as
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: a way to maybe have a family healing. But my
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: grandmother was a piece of work. And we lived together
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: in Korea Town, that's what they called it, and it
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: was wild, and she remember we drove into Paramount Studios.
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: You know, you can picture it the image from the
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: Godfather and you had the big gates. And my grandmother
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: had always wanted to be a movie star. Wow, you know,
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: and she had she was from here, She's from Austin,
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: Texas well, really Fort Worth, but you know, she would
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: talk about going to see Gone with the Wind at
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: the Paramount here in Austin, you know, and she would
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: she would watch Going with the Wind, you know, three
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: times a week. And she had dreamed of being a
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: movie star. And I remember we were in a big
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: van driving me to set the first day, and we
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: went through the gates Paramount opening up, and she was
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: smoking an Eves cigarette in the van. Of course it's
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: nineteen eighty four, and she's just like, yeah, my first
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: time in Hollywood as a fucking guardian. Yeah. And so
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: the whole child actor thing was a trip. And I
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: finished the movie. And there's a lot of drama involved
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: in that if I was to complete that story. But
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: I finished it. The movie was a big turkey. How
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: old were you at the time? Fourteen? Rever and I
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: were both fourteen. We yeah, yeah, but see we look
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: so young in that picture, right. But you gotta understand,
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: you know, when you're that age, you think you're dying
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: to be eighteen, dying to be sixteen. We went off
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: river and I stole a pack of camel cigarettes because
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: we both wanted to be like James Dean, uh, and
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: we had a We had a lot of fun, that's
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: the truth. But the movie came out and I remember
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: River and I going to the bathroom at the premiere,
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: and we had grown a lot from the time we
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: shot the movie to the time it came out, and
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: nobody in the bathroom really recognized us, and they were
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: all talking about what a turkey the movie was, how
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: terrible was and I remember just looking in the eyes
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: like it wasn't the narrative we thought, you know, we'd
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: bought into the dream that you know, we were going
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: to be whatever teen icon we were thinking of at
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: the time, and it died a quick and salty death
• 6:31
  Speaker 2: my dream, and I went back to high school and
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: put away my dream of being an actor. It seemed
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: like it was this isolated, almost like Choose your Own
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: Adventure book or something, where I got to see what
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: Hollywood was like, but then have it denied, and it
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: kind of like put in your hand in a flame.
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: It was not a good feeling when it was over.
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: And then, you know, four years so went by, and
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: I graduated high school and I was off of college
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: and I heard about these auditions from a movie called
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: Dead Poets Society. And I hated college. I was miserable,
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: and I thought, I'll take the bus in and I'll
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: go on one of these open casting calls again, and
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: if I get the part. This is what I decided.
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: If I get the part, I'll do that. And if
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: I don't get the part, I'll join the Merchant Marines
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: and be like Jack London. That was my fantasy at
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: the time. I remember calling my sister and saying, all right,
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: there's seven parts. This is how dull my west. I
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: was like, there's seven parts. If I don't get one
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: of those, I must suck you know. So he's not
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: true at all. But I ended up getting one of them,
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: and I dropped out of college, and that the success
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: of Dead Poets Society sent me. You know, it was
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: like a trajectory of shot me down a different course
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: of water than I was on before.
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: It's probably a much better path than the first film,
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: being successful and become a child star.
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: I cannot tell you how grateful I am for that
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: first experience. First of all, if for no other reason, then,
• 8:09
  Speaker 2: in the success of Dead Poets Society, I didn't take
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: it seriously at all. I didn't even realize that the
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: movie was successful until a couple of years later, because
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: I had so braced myself for failure, you know, perception
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: of failure.
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: Anyway, because of the first experience.
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because everybody's saying all the movies so great. I'm like, yeah,
• 8:25
  Speaker 2: they said this last time. It doesn't mean anything, you know,
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: And so it kind of taught me at a really
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: young age about to ask yourself why you're doing something,
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: you know, like are you doing it for the results
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: of what happens or are you doing it to do it?
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: And I by coming back to acting a few years later,
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: I was just fully braced for it not to go
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: well and it was still going to be worth it,
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: And so I think it gave me a slight bit
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: of ballast to handle the success of.
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: That you went into it for the enjoyment of doing
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: it rather than star.
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: I had no expectations, but I was certain I wasn't
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: going to be a star. I was positive of it.
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: I saw it as a way to make some money
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: and maybe learn about writing and learn about film, and
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: a way to get out of college. Now what happened
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: is when I got there, I met all these other
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: young men who were in love with acting, and that
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: I started watching movies with them and talking about movies
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: with them and seeing the light in their eyes. And
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: we'd go to set and there was Robin Williams. You know,
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: we had Peter Weir who had just directed Witness, one
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: of my favorite movies of all time at that point,
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: and he was a master. I mean, he was not
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: a lightweight human being. He was a heavyweight human being.
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: And he would lead rehearsals and he would talk about
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: acting and performance in a way that I hadn't well,
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: you know, I heard people talk about it that way
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: when we were doing Saint John, when I was doing
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: the like he talked about it like we were making
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: art and like we were on a mission beyond success
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: or failure. And it was it was an invitation to
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: a lifestyle, a life commitment. And what I didn't realize
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: at the time, that's what that movie's about too, you know.
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: So the movie itself is a guided meditation on carpe
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: dm right, It's a meditation on gather ye rosebuds, while
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: ye may I sound my barbaric yop over the rooftops
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: of the world. You know, this is kind of stuff
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: that I was getting inundated with and rehearsal, and so
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: that was I didn't I wouldn't have told you that
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: on the day I wrapped Dead Poet Society that my
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: life had changed.
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: But looking back, it had, it had planted the seeds. Yeah,
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: I was thinking, I've never met a person who became
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: famous at fourteen who came out of it. Okay, of
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: yet too. I heard Jody Foster school. I've never met
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: anybody that became famous very young.
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: I read every interview she does for exactly that reason.
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: It's it's so difficult. I tell parents all the time,
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: like children, acting is a wonderful thing. Put them in
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: the school play, it's so good for him. Get them
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: singing lessons, it's so good for him, singing the church choir.
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: It's so good for him. But to be a professional
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: actor at a young age is.
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: It.
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: It's dangerous and extremely insidious ways that are very very
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: hard to perceive when it's happening.
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: That's a great way to put it. Yeah, it's it.
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: I think it completely impedes your developmental process. And the
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: way I liken it to is like concrete. When you
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: make concrete, there's a bunch of very specific ingredients. You
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: put them with very specific mixture, Like you have to
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: have this amount of water, that amount of sand, this
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: amount of rocks, all the If it's off, it's never fixed.
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: You can't add water. After it's cured, it's done. It's
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: fucked forever. This is bad concrete. Now, this is what
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: happens to a lot of young human beings that become famous,
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: whether it's th're acting or singing.
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's not just fame that analogy works for
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: all walks of life. Really, you know, if you have
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: a really uh something really traumatic happens in childhood, it's
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: very hard to recover. It's a tremendous amount of work
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: to recover. And I agree with you, Like I think
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: celebrity is like it's like a tiny drop of mercury,
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: or it's poison. It's poison for your brain. Now, if
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: you're mature, you can handle it. And if you get
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: it in slow in like I got it in slow increments,
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: Dead Poets Society happened. I had a little taste of fame,
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: but I wasn't. Nobody knew my name. I was Yeah,
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: I was that kid from Dead Poets Society. Oh, look
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: at it. Man. But but and I got it in slow.
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: I got to develop what what do you call it?
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: When you're you get a little bit of poison, like
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: a resistance, Yeah, resistance to it. And it came so
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: slowly from me. I even think about people. I remember
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: the weekend Pretty Women came out two days before, no
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: one had ever heard of Julia Roberts. Two days afterwards,
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: she's the most famous woman in America. I think that's
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: a huge thing to absorb. I wouldn't wish that on anyone.
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: And I know that my personality couldn't have handled it.
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: I've worked hard to handle it as poorly or wellly
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: as I have.
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: You know, Yeah, it's I think you going back to
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: school and living a normal life for you know, five
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: six years or whatever it was before you left college.
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: That's I just think that's critical. That's the developmental process
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: of the normal maturation of a person when they go
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: through adolescents, teenage years into college, young adults. Then you
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: can kind of handle things. And then maybe you're also
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: fortunate that, like you said, dead poets, society not you know,
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: you didn't get too huge from it. You just got
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: some juice, a little bit of juice, a little bit
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: of confidence that you know, it's like something's happening.
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: Something's happening. But then I had the years after that that,
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: you know, I have to give some a shout out
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: to my mom, who was just so devastated that I
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: dropped out of college. I mean, she just couldn't stop
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: crying about it, you know, And it filled me with
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: desire to show her that I was taking responsibility for
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: my own education, which is what I said I would do.
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: And so I started a theater company and I worked
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: really hard at a lot of different things, writing and
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: reading and thinking, and mostly with this theater company, where
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: I met a lot of young people who were interested
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: in what I was doing. But we weren't paid any money,
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: and we worked our asses off and we built sets
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: and we you know, it was fun. I don't want
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: to lie. We had a great time. But it was
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: a college experience that I gave myself through this theater company,
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: and that changed me because I met a lot of
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: people who were really excellent at what I do that
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: weren't making a lot of money. I met a lot
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: of people who loved it as much as I do,
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: who weren't getting their picture taken. Who weren't being told
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: they were special. I knew how gifted they were. I
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: could understand I had a little bit of balance and
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: a little bit of humility to go along with the
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: superficial elements of my chosen field.
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: Hmmm. Do you ever think about what would have happened
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: if that guy didn't invite you to do that play
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: when you were twelve. It's kind of crazy how there's
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: these pivotal moments in your life.
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: You know, he just died. Nagel Jackson was his name,
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: and he was a great theater director. I mean, I
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: don't know if you feel this way. I don't know what.
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: I have the sense often, and I know this sounds
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: really dopey to say, but I sometimes have a sense
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: of a guardian angel of some kind of why did
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: this guy talk to me in the parking lot and
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: why was he such a kind, decent human being? Throughout
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: my life I have had opportunities presented to me, and
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: I had enough intuition and enough intelligence maybe to follow it.
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: But I do think about I think about it all
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: the time, all the ways that are imperceptible in the
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: Tuesday and Wednesday and Thursday that they happen, but where
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: your life is kind of guided and it doesn't really
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: feel by your own doing.
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I know it sounds wacky to say, but I
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: believe it too. I mean I don't publicly profess it
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: as the definite reason why everything happens, but there's a
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: bunch of I think most people that have gotten anywhere
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: in life, there's moments in their life long ago. How
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: did that happen?
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: Like what?
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: Why did this feel like it was a destined path?
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: Like why why was I compelled to try this? What
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: was the what was the thought behind that? And why
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: am I being guided? There is fate real.
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: I wonder how other people feel, But I do think
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: one of the keys. I think that probably everybody has
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: a path that is there for them. And the trick
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: about knowing yourself the value and taking time to like
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: be still with yourself and you listen to yourself. You
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: know that there's an expression. The voice of our spirit
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: is extremely gentle. It's difficult to hear it. It's quiet,
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: but if you can hear it, that thing intuition, that thing,
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: the path, the idea of a guardian angel would have
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: you can see what's happening around you. If you're in
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: touch with yourself. And if you're not in touch with yourself,
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: you keep tripping on the same you're not seeing the
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: angles and the roads that might be available to you.
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: I do think that part of the trick is taking
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: time to actually get to know yourself so that you
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: can see the light when it appears, because I bet
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: you everybody hasn't.
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: I bet they do too. I bet there's also a
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: real factor in recognizing the misery of your mother's life.
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: What she was doing where she didn't take these chances.
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: She didn't she had responsibility.
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: She was Yeah, I canna take something funny about that.
• 18:30
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• 20:03
  Speaker 2: So she was eighteen when I was born, right, So
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: that's that's tough. You don't really have a childhood right, right.
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: But in her mid forties she took it. She joined
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: the Peace Corps in her mid forties. After you know,
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: once I was okay. And it was right around the
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: time my oldest Maya was born.
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: She's a single, single child.
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, And I think I was a big
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: part of her on her brain a lot worrying. It
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: was a big is this kid going to be all right?
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: Is this kid going to be all right? It makes
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: a lot of noise in your head, you know. And
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: I was all right. And she looked around, and I
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: remember her saying that, you know, if an accident happened today,
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: when they do happen and I died, I would be
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: extremely disappointed in myself. She was probably I don't know,
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: forty six or something when she said, this, younger than
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: I am now. And she said, I don't want to
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: be disappointed in my life. So she joined the Peace Corps,
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: of which she wasn't all that impressed with. But they
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: sent her to Romania, and she fell in love with Romania,
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: and she fell in love with the people there, and
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: she got obsessed with the racism against the Gypsy culture,
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: the Roma culture I'm supposed to call it, and it
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: reminded her a lot of growing up here in the sixties,
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: in the racism she saw as a young girl, and
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: she just decided to do something about it. And she
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: spent twenty five years there and she got thousands of
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: kids into school who wouldn't have gone to school. She
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: just recently retired back to Fort Worth. And she's a
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: different woman than the woman I grew up with, which
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: is I think a remarkable story. I loved both the women,
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: the woman now and the woman I grew up with.
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: I don't want to paint some portrait that she was miserable.
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: She had so much. She just was miserable at work, right,
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: you know, she was not a miserable person to be
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: with the opposite, and she kept that fire in herself
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: alive enough to when the window presented itself, she took it,
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: and she took it hard. I mean, she disappeared for
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: a quarter of a century to Romania. It's a young
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: woman born and for Worth, right, and that's a wild
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: thing to do. And she made a huge impact. And
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: I'm extremely proud of her and proud of the work
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: that she's done, and so is everybody who knows her.
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: And now she's in fort worth doing her thing and
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: has a different sense of herself because she followed her
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: own intuition and her own path.
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: It just she had to deal with the responsibility of
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: raising a child for a long time. Yeah yeah, yeah,
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: well that develops a different kind of character too, you know,
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: the character of a woman trying to raise a child.
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: And it's also a boy. You know, I have all daughters,
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: you do, Yeah, I.
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: Have three daughters and one boy. Yeah.
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah. All my friends are boys. Like dude, It is
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: so much harder. It's just that you're just trying to
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: keep them from burning the house down.
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: It was a pain, of course, And if you're a
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: single child, you know, but she must have gotten some
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: inspiration from your path, from your choices.
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: I wonder that you wait, you have to ask her.
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: I think she had, in her own way, went for
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: it because everybody told her not to have a baby,
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: and she wanted to, and she didn't want to run
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: with the pack. No she didn't. I don't think when
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: you're eighteen you don't understand the ramifications of the decision
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: of having a child, right, you know how you know permanent?
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: You know?
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: I remember she told me when Maya was born, here. Well, congratulations,
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: you know, you now have something to worry about the
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: rest of your life.
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: You know, Yeah, I think it's a gift though. I mean,
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: I certainly think it changes you as a human being,
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: and in my case the most positive ways possible. I
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: could imagine being a single mother, though it's a much
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: more difficult position to.
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: Be in, and there's a lot of pressure on women,
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: you know, sure, you know if if you work, you're
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: a bad mother. If you're just to stay at home mom,
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: you're not a good strong woman, you know. I mean,
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: they're damned if they do. They're damned if they don't.
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: That's the position they get put in.
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, absolutely, Yeah, it's all those experiences when as
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: an actor. I mean, one of the more fascinating things
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: to me about watching people is how they can assume
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: different identities and how critical is it to have had
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: so many different people in your life and different life
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: experiences to draw from to try to understand things through
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: their eyes. If you're a regular person running tough, if
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: you're a stockbroker, you're running through the world thinking like
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: a stockbroker, you know, you're not thinking what would you
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: like to be a janitor? Like what is it like
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: to be this guy who's trying to raise a family
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: and he's got a drug dealer in his neighborhood that's
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: causing problems, and your life is this constant state of drama,
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: Like you're drawing from all these different experiences. So having
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: had like not I mean, I wouldn't say it's your
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: life was complicated, but it sounds like you have a
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: really good mom, but complicated like and not necessarily that
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: stable in that way. You're young, and you're you know,
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: you're trying this thing out, and you're going off to
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: Hollywood and then you're coming back and going to college,
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: like having all these different bizarre interactions with people in
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: life experiences. How much do you draw upon that when
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: you're trying to create a character.
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: Well that's a really big question, is well, I so
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: I have to break it into parts.
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: Are getting bigger as all that? Yeah?
• 26:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because it's kind of two parts. But the first
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: part about drawing on a character is touching on my
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: favorite aspect of my life and my job. Most people,
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: if you're an actuary, you're an actuary. You think in numbers,
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: you think in this this is and it's your job.
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: You have to you know you I have.
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: I got to play a World War two vet, got
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: taken out to basic training. I got to read World
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: War two veterans journals over and over again. I got
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: to wear the clothes they wore. I was working in
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: that movie for a few months, reading all kinds of books,
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: watching documentaries about that. Then that movie's over. Moving on now,
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: I'm gonna get cast as a LA cop, going to
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: do ride arounds through Los Angeles in the back seat
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: of a cop car right when the crash unit thing
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: was happening. And I'm thinking like a cop and I'm not.
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: It's not it's even it's it's different than being a
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: journalist and writing about it. I'm really trying to imagine
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: being them, and I'm not looking at it from a
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: judgmental point of view. I don't have an agenda about
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: whether they're a good person or a bad person, or
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: whether this army sergeant should have made that decision or
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: that one. I'm thinking, why did he make it, Why
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: did he make it? Why did he do that? Right?
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: I play a jazz musician, a drug addict, Right, I'm
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: not sitting there judging him. What what a bad person?
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: You know?
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: I'm thinking, why do you do it? You know it's
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: a painkiller? Why's he taking it? Where's this music come from?
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: Why is it so important to him? Why is he
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: practiced twelve hours a day? What is that about? You know? You?
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: All these characters are these invitations to a expand your
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: own sense of what identity means, Like is who is
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: Joe Rogan right? And who Joe Rogan is with his
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: mom is a little different than he's watching the super
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: Ball with his best friends. Who Joe Rogan is at
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: forty is different than he is at twenty. We have
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: inside of us so many aspects to ourselves. You know,
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: when you're we're in love, you change. When you see
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: your child for the first time, you change your biology.
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: Your chemicals start to shift a little bit. If you're
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: in a violent situation, you know, your molecular structure alters
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: a little bit, and you start to realize that that's
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: not you, and that's not you, and that's not you.
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: They're all you and that's what performing is like. And
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: you start to see society and see yourself and see
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: a continuity that is really kind of exciting I've had.
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: If you don't get ruined by oh, breaking your arm,
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: patting yourself in the back, or something like that. I've
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: met a bunch of older actors who've lived really interesting
• 28:57
  Speaker 2: lives that I've learned. It's like I once had dinner
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: with Vanessa Redgrave as old English actors. She'd spent her
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: life doing Shakespeare and Chekhov and Beckett and Tennessee Williams.
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: She'd spent her life with some of the greatest minds
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: of the last fifty years. And she carries that whi her.
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: She's powerfully intelligent and powerfully humble woman, And it's like
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: being next to somebody you really admire. You know, a
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: master craftsman. Doesn't matter what the craft is. Why when
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: you take it to a high level, it has a
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: lot to teach you. So anyway, that was a multi
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: part question. The other thing that part of your question
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: is how did I stay balanced? And a lot of
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: it had to do with my father, who has He
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: doesn't care about celebrity, doesn't particularly think it's very interesting
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: and not in a judgmental way. Really cares about integrity
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: and whether you're a good person and whether you tell
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: the truth. And it's not interesting to him how much
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: money you make. That's not where his value system is
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: placed on whether he's naturally suspicious of people who want
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: too much attention, not naturally suspicious of that in me,
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: which was good for me. It's a healthy suspicion he had.
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: Was very realistic about the chances I had of making
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: a profession out of this. That's not a bad thing.
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: You know. Everybody says so great to tell people to
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: follow your dreams, and it is important to follow your dreams,
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: but it's also important to be realistic and have a
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: plan and take care of yourself and when you say
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: you're going to do something, to do it, to show
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: up when you're asked to tell the truth. All these
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: things that so, when ever things would start to go well,
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: I had this person in my life that's very important
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: to me, who doesn't place a value on anything superficial.
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: And when we talked about why it's so hard to
• 31:02
  Speaker 2: meet young people in this profession who make it. What
• 31:07
  Speaker 2: starts to happen regardless of how good or not good
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: your parents are or something, your circle can get infiltrated
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: with a lot of people trying to make money off you,
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: and that's dangerous because they don't care about you.
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that is an issue. There's an issue of people
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: trying to get you to take work that you really
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: shouldn't take just because they're going to get a percentage
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: of it.
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: It's gonna be good for you in the next three years,
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: but they don't have your long term right. You know,
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: what is going to be good for the sixty five
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: year old version of you? You know, is this Like
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: you said, Yeah, if I could have, if I could
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: have decided my life, Explorers would have been a huge hit.
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: It would have been et big And you know what,
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: I wouldn't be here on this talk show today, you know,
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: so I don't want to be in charge of my
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: whole life in that way.
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: You know you maybe it would, but it would be different.
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: You'd be coming out of a rehab.
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: Oh for sure, Charlie Sheen's Yeah, dude, I'd be on
• 31:58
  Speaker 2: marriage eighteen.
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: But by the way, it was a fantastic guy to
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: talk to. I bet he was.
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: I listened to it.
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: It was fantastic, wonderful guy, like a sweetheart of a guy,
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: a guy who went through the exact opposite of what
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: I'm saying.
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: Is good for you if you survive. Yeah, anything is
• 32:15
  Speaker 2: a learning to him, right, I mean some of you.
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: You must have this. Some of the wisest people I
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: know have been through the twelve step program. Yes, and
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: so addiction and misery can be an unbelievable teacher if
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: you can, if you pull yourself out of it, if
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: you survive. It's not I wouldn't wish it for my children.
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: It's not a dare I want them to take. Oh hey,
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: one path of wisdoms? Well yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. A
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: lot of my friends died from it, but a couple
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: of them are really wise from it. I read a book, Okay,
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: I remember.
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: It's funny.
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: Even as you said, I remember when I was about
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: twenty four, starting to get successful. I met my friend
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: Richard Linkletter, and we were hanging out in New York
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: and we met this really coolest guy. We really admired,
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: fancy pants writer, really badass, you know you kind of
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: just and we were smoking cigarettes what Rick wasn't, of course,
• 33:12
  Speaker 2: but we're shooting pool and this guy said to me,
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: you know what, You're almost interesting. He said to me,
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: you know you gotta do you go, I gotta go
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: down to Mexico and disappear for a couple of years,
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: you know, live life a little bit, then you'll be
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: somebody and the guy. Finally, when the night we're walking
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: home with Rick, and Rick said, let me tell you
• 33:30
  Speaker 2: what you don't need to do. What do you read
• 33:35
  Speaker 2: some William Burrows That might be a good idea. Read
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: some Hunter S. Thompson. Skip the addiction path, you know,
• 33:41
  Speaker 2: learn what you don't have to. You don't have to
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: do it. You know you don't need to. That's that's
• 33:47
  Speaker 2: not the path to wisdom. You know. It has worked
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: for a handful of people, but most of us, you know.
• 33:53
  Speaker 2: I keep coming back to this conversation with Jody Foster much.
• 33:56
  Speaker 2: I read her interviews because I admire because I know
• 33:59
  Speaker 2: what she survived. But but she's wicked smart. Yes, you know,
• 34:04
  Speaker 2: you don't want to you don't want to place your
• 34:06
  Speaker 2: bet that you're as smart as she is.
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, she's smart and also wise. That's the odd thing
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: of someone who was in like how old was she
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: in Taxi Driver twelve fourteen? Crazy? Crazy? And it's a
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: very bizarre movie for a young child to be sexualized
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: in this very weird, psychotic movie.
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: But what she took from it was this great mentor
• 34:30
  Speaker 2: in Martin Scorsese, and she kind of understood she was
• 34:33
  Speaker 2: making art. That's where the wisdom comes in. She's just
• 34:36
  Speaker 2: naturally precociously wise that way that she didn't get hung
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: up on the the they are, the CD aspects, the
• 34:45
  Speaker 2: sexuality aspects of it. She got hung up on who's
• 34:49
  Speaker 2: this guy, Martin Scorsese, what is he doing? What is
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: this movie? Saying? How could I be a part of that?
• 34:54
  Speaker 2: You know? And that's how I think she survived. But
• 34:56
  Speaker 2: I don't know the woman, so I shouldn't speak.
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't or either, but I do admire her
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: when I hear her talk.
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, me too.
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: That's why I always bring her up as the lone
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: example that I've ever come across with someone who's been
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: through childhood stardom that seems to be like very well
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: and put together.
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and she's still really good at her job.
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah right right, It's like that.
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: That to me is really exciting.
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: You know.
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: See, if you're me, you're like I look at Jeff
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: Bridges a lot too. So like when Dead Poets Society
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: came out, I went, I remember, I went this long
• 35:28
  Speaker 2: talk with myself. I was like it was like sunrise
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: and I'd been up all night and it was new
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: York and I was about nineteen or something, and I
• 35:37
  Speaker 2: was just thinking about who had gone through this that
• 35:41
  Speaker 2: I actually admire when I look at them, and I
• 35:43
  Speaker 2: admire and Jeff Bridges had starred in the Last Picture Show,
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: which was one of MY favorite movies, and he was
• 35:49
  Speaker 2: amazing in it. And he just slowly got better and
• 35:53
  Speaker 2: better and better and better. And I was like, all right,
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: so it can be done. You know this. You know
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: he's got an amazing wife. He's really super into Buddhism.
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: I started getting like, what is it. He's really into photography,
• 36:08
  Speaker 2: like he takes I mean, I don't know him either, right,
• 36:11
  Speaker 2: so I'm just I'm talking like a fan here. It's
• 36:13
  Speaker 2: not I don't know these people. But I watched him
• 36:16
  Speaker 2: from Afar. It's like, Okay, this race can be won.
• 36:20
  Speaker 2: And I've always thought. I remember I was so happy
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: he won the Academy Award for True Grid. I guess
• 36:25
  Speaker 2: it was. And I was like, damn, what a long
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: slow burn he had. And he just keeps getting better
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: and more interesting. He comes out these weird little books
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: I love and I read them, and he writes books. Yeah,
• 36:38
  Speaker 2: he has this book with his like he has a
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: mentor in Buddhism, and they kind of wrote a book
• 36:44
  Speaker 2: together about the Doao of the Dude or something like that.
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: But it's actually, you know, I don't know if you've
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: read The daw Willie. I love all these kind of
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: to the left versions of Sometimes I find it hard
• 36:56
  Speaker 2: to read the I don't want to read what Willy
• 36:58
  Speaker 2: thinks that about the dump pot up more than I
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: want to read the dumb out of myself. Yeah, there
• 37:02
  Speaker 2: it is. Yeah, The Dude in the Zenmester, it's a
• 37:04
  Speaker 2: great book. By the way. He has a mantra in
• 37:08
  Speaker 2: it that I just love, which is a row, row,
• 37:11
  Speaker 2: row your boat gently down the stream, merrily, merrily, merrily.
• 37:14
  Speaker 2: Life is but a dream. And he talks about how
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: valuable that song has been to him. I'm probably misquoted,
• 37:21
  Speaker 2: but it meant a lot to me. And it's just
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: like one step at a time, one step at a time.
• 37:27
  Speaker 2: Keep keep a smile on your face, you know, don't forget.
• 37:30
  Speaker 2: It's all a dream, you know. It's like it's a
• 37:33
  Speaker 2: great mantra.
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: It is, and it's it's always great to have someone
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: who has gone through it all and has come out fascinating,
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: interesting and wise. So you go Oh, it can be
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: it can be done.
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: Did you ever meet Chris Christofferson.
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: No, he was cool.
• 37:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, Well I my secret fantasy is is your job?
• 37:56
  Speaker 2: You know? I wrote a profile on Chris, I don't know,
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: fifteen years ago now for Rolling Stone magazine. And I
• 38:03
  Speaker 2: made a documentary about Paul Newman and joined Woodward and
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: I just finished a documentary about Merle Haggard. And I
• 38:09
  Speaker 2: really enjoy studying other people. But Chris, you know, his
• 38:19
  Speaker 2: his life stories, do you know what all I mean?
• 38:21
  Speaker 2: He was in the military and then he gave up
• 38:23
  Speaker 2: everything became a songwriter. And it's kind of like imagine
• 38:28
  Speaker 2: if you know, the equipment is like at the point
• 38:33
  Speaker 2: of the height of his career. It's like imagining if
• 38:37
  Speaker 2: Brad Pitt had also written a number one single for
• 38:42
  Speaker 2: Amy Winehouse. And you know what I mean. I mean,
• 38:46
  Speaker 2: I mean, you know he wrote me and Bobby McGee
• 38:48
  Speaker 2: for Janis Joplin and yeah, oh yeah wow. And he was,
• 38:52
  Speaker 2: you know, a helicopter pilot, and he wrote songs for
• 38:54
  Speaker 2: Johnny Cash and he was acting in Sam peckin Paul movies.
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: Blade.
• 39:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he was in Blade. Yeah. But he was a
• 39:04
  Speaker 2: real he's a Rhodes, scholar and a boxer. You would
• 39:08
  Speaker 2: like this guy. He would be right up your alley,
• 39:10
  Speaker 2: a real free thinker and didn't trap himself in any
• 39:15
  Speaker 2: way of thinking and really fought for individual rights. And
• 39:20
  Speaker 2: he was a great, great guy. Got to interview him,
• 39:23
  Speaker 2: and he actually starred in my first movie I directed to,
• 39:26
  Speaker 2: so I got to know what was a still movie
• 39:29
  Speaker 2: called Chelsea Walls. I don't necessarily recommend you watch it
• 39:34
  Speaker 2: again if you want to. I learned a lot making it.
• 39:38
  Speaker 2: I like it a lot, but I was learning, you know,
• 39:43
  Speaker 2: I was learning a lot. But Chris, Chris was in it,
• 39:46
  Speaker 2: and he was amazing.
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, having known people like that is so beneficial in
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: your life. That they they're not just like inspirational. It's
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: like a mental fuel, a type of a type of
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: nutrient almost. It's like having a person that you know exists,
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: that's been through something, has come out amazing, and is
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: so not tied down to anyone specific identity, has varied interests,
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: pursues them all with passion.
• 40:16
  Speaker 2: Having mentors. Yes, it's like, you know, how are you
• 40:19
  Speaker 2: going to be a samurai if you don't know a samurai?
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: Right?
• 40:22
  Speaker 2: You know, you got to see the way they tie
• 40:24
  Speaker 2: their shoes. You gotta see the way they make dinner.
• 40:26
  Speaker 2: You don't just got to see the fancy sword play.
• 40:28
  Speaker 2: That stuff is hard earned. And so I'm not scared
• 40:34
  Speaker 2: of that. You know, you don't. You don't have to
• 40:36
  Speaker 2: hero worship people. You don't have to turn them into deities.
• 40:39
  Speaker 2: They're human beings. But when you get to experience and
• 40:43
  Speaker 2: see that, people like, oh, you don't have to lie.
• 40:48
  Speaker 2: I knew a guy once who didn't lie. You know,
• 40:52
  Speaker 2: you don't have to back down when somebody says that
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: I watched the person that back. You can be a
• 40:56
  Speaker 2: good parent. You can have your parent your children say
• 40:59
  Speaker 2: I love them dad. It's not going to come easy,
• 41:03
  Speaker 2: but it can be done. And so I like heroes.
• 41:08
  Speaker 2: I have no I like I also like seeing older people.
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: You know, there's not the fixation on the twenty three
• 41:16
  Speaker 2: year old James Dean, you know, but a fixation on
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: you know, the seventy two year old Chris Christofferson, you know,
• 41:23
  Speaker 2: you know, pick whoever yours are. There's yeah, you know,
• 41:27
  Speaker 2: Muhammad Ali. I mean, there's so many amazing people that
• 41:30
  Speaker 2: you can say, like, wow, life was not always a
• 41:32
  Speaker 2: picnic for them? How did they handle it and then
• 41:35
  Speaker 2: you cannot be, you know, too upset when life's not
• 41:39
  Speaker 2: a picnic for you. You can just ask yourself, how
• 41:41
  Speaker 2: did you handle it?
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't think there's anything wrong with really appreciating people.
• 41:46
  Speaker 1: That concern of hero worship is legitimate, because I think
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: there are some people that will take a person and
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: change who they are and make them not just extraordinary
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: but not even human.
• 41:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a mistake.
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: It is a mistake, but it doesn't mean you can't
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: love and deeply appreciate who they actually are, flaws and all,
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: because that's what we all are. And when someone is
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: extraordinary and they have gone through so much or they
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: have expressed so much and they do resonate with you
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: so much, that's a valuable person and you should treat
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: them like they're a valuable person. It's not necessarily hero worship.
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: It's just appreciation.
• 42:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Like I'll tell you, I don't know why. I
• 42:24
  Speaker 2: just flashed through my brain. And when I was making
• 42:28
  Speaker 2: this film Chelsea Walls, you have to understand, like digital video,
• 42:30
  Speaker 2: it just came out, this movie, the Celebration, this Danish film,
• 42:33
  Speaker 2: amazing movie. Thomas Vinterberg directed it, and it just kind
• 42:36
  Speaker 2: of changed the rules. The camera was cheap, like movies
• 42:39
  Speaker 2: were always so expensive to make, and now you could
• 42:41
  Speaker 2: just I was like, all right, I want I made
• 42:43
  Speaker 2: this movie for one hundred thousand dollars in a two thousand,
• 42:46
  Speaker 2: and I was like, all right, we're just going to
• 42:48
  Speaker 2: play with this new camera. And I talk Chris Christopherson
• 42:51
  Speaker 2: into being it. He was my hero, and he can't
• 42:54
  Speaker 2: he agreed to do it. I couldn't believe it. You know.
• 42:57
  Speaker 2: He shows up on the set and I had this
• 43:01
  Speaker 2: elaborate shot I had planned. I'd found this apartment that
• 43:05
  Speaker 2: was means, I hope this isn't boring, but I think
• 43:06
  Speaker 2: it say it's a funny story. So it's my first
• 43:08
  Speaker 2: day with Chris, and I'm really trying to press him,
• 43:10
  Speaker 2: like I've ripped this shot off from this French film
• 43:12
  Speaker 2: I've seen. It's amazing. You're gonna come into You're gonna
• 43:15
  Speaker 2: his character orders a bottle whiskey, and the guy delivers
• 43:17
  Speaker 2: a bottle whiskey to the room. And in my idea,
• 43:20
  Speaker 2: from this apartment, you could walk from the living room
• 43:23
  Speaker 2: into the bedroom, and from the bedroom to the bathroom,
• 43:27
  Speaker 2: and then out of the bathroom into the kitchen, and
• 43:29
  Speaker 2: the kitchen opened back up into the living room. It
• 43:31
  Speaker 2: was one of those New York City Square apartments in
• 43:33
  Speaker 2: the Chelsea Hotel, right, And I showed him this path
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: I want him to take, and he was gonna turn
• 43:38
  Speaker 2: on the lights in this room, and he was gonna
• 43:40
  Speaker 2: put on a cowboy hat while he's talking on the phone.
• 43:42
  Speaker 2: He's gonna look in the mirror and point the things.
• 43:43
  Speaker 2: And he's gonna walk in the bathroom and flick that
• 43:45
  Speaker 2: light on and then slam the mirror shut and then
• 43:47
  Speaker 2: walk out and then sit down in the kitchen right
• 43:50
  Speaker 2: where he was, pop up in the whiskey and pour
• 43:52
  Speaker 2: himself a glass. Right as he says the last line
• 43:54
  Speaker 2: of the monologue, and he looks at me and he goes,
• 43:58
  Speaker 2: are you an alcoholic? And I was like, uh no, no,
• 44:05
  Speaker 2: not really know I'm an alcoholic. I said, Oh, okay,
• 44:10
  Speaker 2: his character's name is Buddies. Bud's an alcoholic. Yeah, So
• 44:15
  Speaker 2: you mean to tell me I order a bottle of whiskey,
• 44:18
  Speaker 2: I'm about to fall off the wagon. And I don't
• 44:21
  Speaker 2: open the fucker until I walk through this room, turn
• 44:24
  Speaker 2: on a light, trying a cowboy hat, flip on a
• 44:27
  Speaker 2: light slam a mirror and then sit down. I was like, well,
• 44:31
  Speaker 2: I think it would be a great shot. And He's said, Ethan,
• 44:35
  Speaker 2: there's no way in hell that I can remember all
• 44:39
  Speaker 2: those lines and do all that that you're asking me.
• 44:43
  Speaker 2: That shot will never work. So what I think is
• 44:46
  Speaker 2: Bud's an alcoholic and he's gonna get his bottle. He's
• 44:48
  Speaker 2: gonna open it, and I'm gonna sit down, save my
• 44:51
  Speaker 2: monologue and drink my whiskey. Okay, great, let's do that.
• 44:59
  Speaker 1: Because most of the terror of someone you deeply admired
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: not liking your idea, which.
• 45:04
  Speaker 2: Is your whole body, just shrivels up. You know, you know,
• 45:08
  Speaker 2: you know you didn't see the guitar film. I don't
• 45:10
  Speaker 2: give a shit about the guitar film. There's no way
• 45:13
  Speaker 2: I'm gonna remember those lines. But then to finish it,
• 45:17
  Speaker 2: I'll say when he wrapped the movie, he was getting
• 45:23
  Speaker 2: he you know, said his goodbyes and everything was getting
• 45:24
  Speaker 2: in the elevator to leave, and I ran out and
• 45:26
  Speaker 2: I said to him and say, hey, listen, you know
• 45:28
  Speaker 2: you've given so much this whole project, and I know that,
• 45:30
  Speaker 2: but you know this whole crew is working for free, right,
• 45:34
  Speaker 2: and could I beg you, would you come in and
• 45:39
  Speaker 2: sing one song for us, just like just for the
• 45:43
  Speaker 2: crew for me. Is there any way you do that? Yeah?
• 45:46
  Speaker 2: You got a guitar, I do. I do. So he
• 45:49
  Speaker 2: sat down and he proceeded to tell this elaborate story
• 45:53
  Speaker 2: that I'm sure he's told a thousand times, but it
• 45:56
  Speaker 2: was such a gift the room. He sat and told
• 45:57
  Speaker 2: a story about how he met Janis John Opplin in
• 46:00
  Speaker 2: the elevator of this very building and we and she
• 46:04
  Speaker 2: fucked me about four minutes later, and I played her
• 46:08
  Speaker 2: this song and he's played you know, busted Flat and
• 46:12
  Speaker 2: Bad and Rouge waiting for a Tree. I was feeling
• 46:15
  Speaker 2: by his faith right in the whole crew. Everybody's crying,
• 46:19
  Speaker 2: everybody's so happy. I mean, he was just he was
• 46:21
  Speaker 2: that giving, you know, to everybody, and understood what it
• 46:27
  Speaker 2: would mean to this group of young artists, you know,
• 46:30
  Speaker 2: and so. But he wasn't perfect. Yeah, he was a
• 46:35
  Speaker 2: real dude with real issues and you know, and I
• 46:39
  Speaker 2: loved him.
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah he was. I mean, you think about what he
• 46:46
  Speaker 1: did and all the different songs that he performed and
• 46:48
  Speaker 1: movies he was in and different things that he did.
• 46:52
  Speaker 1: That was an extraordinary life.
• 46:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'll stop in one second. But for some of you, yeah,
• 46:56
  Speaker 2: I think you love this. Apparently the legend Johnny Cash
• 46:59
  Speaker 2: used to say that, you know that song Sunday Morning
• 47:01
  Speaker 2: coming down. I woke up Sunday morning with no way
• 47:03
  Speaker 2: to hold my head. That didn't hurt, and the beer
• 47:05
  Speaker 2: I had for breakfast wasn't bad, so I had one
• 47:07
  Speaker 2: more for a dessert. Great song, Okay. So Johnny Cash
• 47:10
  Speaker 2: had a number one single out of this song. And
• 47:13
  Speaker 2: Johnny Cash would tell the story how Chris was flying
• 47:17
  Speaker 2: helicopters offshore oil and he landed in Johnny Cash's front
• 47:23
  Speaker 2: yard with a beer in one hand and the song
• 47:25
  Speaker 2: in the other and his helicopter and said, damn it,
• 47:27
  Speaker 2: you got to listen to my song. And I listened
• 47:29
  Speaker 2: to it and went straight to number one. That's the
• 47:31
  Speaker 2: story that you know, Cash would tell. And I asked
• 47:34
  Speaker 2: Chris about it, and he said, have you ever flown
• 47:36
  Speaker 2: such and such chopper? And I said, I said no,
• 47:40
  Speaker 2: I haven't. Guess there ain't no way in hell you
• 47:42
  Speaker 2: can fly that thing with beer in one hand and
• 47:44
  Speaker 2: a cassette and the other. That story, I don't know
• 47:48
  Speaker 2: where he came up with that story. He's just trying
• 47:51
  Speaker 2: to help out my career and make a legend out
• 47:53
  Speaker 2: of me too. But no, no, I just I sent
• 47:56
  Speaker 2: it to him via airmail.
• 47:59
  Speaker 1: For a person that watches movies, I've done a small
• 48:02
  Speaker 1: amount of acting, but I'm not good at it. For
• 48:05
  Speaker 1: a person who watches movies, there's a thing that happens,
• 48:12
  Speaker 1: like a hypnosis when someone is a really good actor,
• 48:17
  Speaker 1: where they become that person. And even though I know
• 48:21
  Speaker 1: it's Ethan Hawke, I know it's fill in the blank,
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: Daniel day Lewis. I know who it is, but it's
• 48:27
  Speaker 1: not them at this moment. They're so good that they've
• 48:30
  Speaker 1: convinced me that they're this other person. What is that?
• 48:36
  Speaker 1: Because there are moments where I see a good actor
• 48:41
  Speaker 1: and I say, I don't believe them. I think they're
• 48:45
  Speaker 1: phoning it in. They're saying it the right way, but
• 48:48
  Speaker 1: there's just something in the air. There's a missing connection,
• 48:54
  Speaker 1: and it is the key to a great movie. The
• 48:57
  Speaker 1: key to a great movie is everybody has to be
• 49:00
  Speaker 1: in that fucking weird zone, that weird zone where you
• 49:04
  Speaker 1: become a different person.
• 49:07
  Speaker 2: You use the essential word in your first sentence, which
• 49:12
  Speaker 2: is hypnosis. I've spent my life studying what you just
• 49:16
  Speaker 2: talked about. And when you're acting with Denzel Washington, the
• 49:23
  Speaker 2: power and strength and completeness of his imagination is hypnotizing,
• 49:31
  Speaker 2: and it's an invitation to join him. And a great
• 49:34
  Speaker 2: film is a collective, imaginative experience. When you watch The Godfather,
• 49:41
  Speaker 2: you're not fucking thinking about al Pacino or James conn Or.
• 49:44
  Speaker 2: You think about Michael and Sonny and Tom and you
• 49:49
  Speaker 2: know Veto. I remember I watched The Godfather and I
• 49:52
  Speaker 2: felt like I'd see those guys at the Nick game tomorrow.
• 49:54
  Speaker 2: That's how That's how much you're not thinking about the music,
• 49:57
  Speaker 2: you're not thinking about the shots. It's all one thing.
• 50:01
  Speaker 2: All these disparate elements turn into one fist. You cannot
• 50:05
  Speaker 2: do it alone, right, But the best people I've worked with,
• 50:11
  Speaker 2: it's like the easiest example to show it, Like for anybody.
• 50:17
  Speaker 2: When you go to a concert, every now and then
• 50:19
  Speaker 2: it happens, the performer hypnotizes you and you disappear. Yeah,
• 50:25
  Speaker 2: you're inside those songs. Yeah you know, you're not talking
• 50:29
  Speaker 2: about those songs, you're not looking at them, you're not less,
• 50:31
  Speaker 2: you are inside the song. You're inside a dream. And
• 50:38
  Speaker 2: bad acting for me, is glib. Bad acting is commenting
• 50:40
  Speaker 2: on the song. Bad acting is slightly the feeling you're
• 50:43
  Speaker 2: talking about is when somebody's slightly outside of it. It's very,
• 50:47
  Speaker 2: very hard to do, and a lot of people study
• 50:52
  Speaker 2: it and work on it, and voice and speech is
• 50:54
  Speaker 2: a huge I mean, this stuff is very It's way
• 50:58
  Speaker 2: more interesting to me than it would be to our
• 51:00
  Speaker 2: audience here today. But it's like all these elements of
• 51:04
  Speaker 2: what creates hypnosis. If you were if we're talking about
• 51:08
  Speaker 2: the violin, there are ways to practice the violin, and
• 51:12
  Speaker 2: I'm not going to make somebody virtuoso, but I can,
• 51:15
  Speaker 2: if I'm an expert violin pedge help you be better.
• 51:19
  Speaker 2: And I think the same is true for acting. Acting
• 51:22
  Speaker 2: is an art form. It's beautiful. It's some weird collage
• 51:27
  Speaker 2: of where performance and writing and all these elements music,
• 51:36
  Speaker 2: it's all a part of it. And when it's happening,
• 51:39
  Speaker 2: it's all effortless, and there's a lot of work you
• 51:42
  Speaker 2: can do to inch it to being easier and to
• 51:45
  Speaker 2: insure scene partner into being easier. And there are ways
• 51:47
  Speaker 2: that they can help you, and there's ways that they
• 51:48
  Speaker 2: can ruin it. They can break the dream. But when
• 51:52
  Speaker 2: it's good. It is like diving into a dream. And
• 51:56
  Speaker 2: it's a feeling that I got for the first time
• 52:01
  Speaker 2: when I was eighteen years old acting in Dead Poet Society,
• 52:05
  Speaker 2: and it is a feeling. It was it was seconds long.
• 52:10
  Speaker 2: I mean, it was not much, but a feeling of disappearing.
• 52:14
  Speaker 2: And that's the irony I always feel about acting, is that,
• 52:18
  Speaker 2: you know, people think about actors and they see these
• 52:19
  Speaker 2: pictures in the red carpet or something, they think that's
• 52:21
  Speaker 2: what acting is. You know what it really is. It's
• 52:24
  Speaker 2: a life of It's completely antithetical to that of trying
• 52:28
  Speaker 2: to disappear. It feels like the celebration of the self,
• 52:32
  Speaker 2: the celebration of the personality. Though, but when you're doing
• 52:37
  Speaker 2: a scene with Philip Seymour Hoffman, you know as not
• 52:42
  Speaker 2: phil that's talking to you, you know, it's it's it's
• 52:48
  Speaker 2: like you know in the cartoon when the eyes go
• 52:50
  Speaker 2: all squirrely and like that. Yeah, and then all of
• 52:55
  Speaker 2: a sudden, I'm not me and if I've done my
• 52:58
  Speaker 2: work right, all of a sudden, I'm saying, what's coming
• 53:02
  Speaker 2: out of my mouth is what I prepared, what's coming
• 53:05
  Speaker 2: out of my pocket is what I prepared. The way
• 53:08
  Speaker 2: I'm moving is what I'm prepared because and I'm not
• 53:10
  Speaker 2: thinking about it. It's like watching a great athlete. When
• 53:13
  Speaker 2: a great athlete makes it behind the back pass to
• 53:17
  Speaker 2: the guy at the perfect second, he's not thinking, Oh,
• 53:19
  Speaker 2: I've got a cool idea. I'm going to throw it
• 53:21
  Speaker 2: behind my back and I'll catch him right as he's
• 53:22
  Speaker 2: in strade. It's years of practice that have let them
• 53:27
  Speaker 2: know that I know where he is, because where else
• 53:30
  Speaker 2: would he be? You know, and things that are at
• 53:34
  Speaker 2: first difficult become easy, and then you can even get
• 53:39
  Speaker 2: better from there and get better from there. But that's
• 53:41
  Speaker 2: the difference people talk about. You know, I love Daniel
• 53:44
  Speaker 2: de Lewis too. I think he's kind of the high
• 53:46
  Speaker 2: water mark of my trade. And you know, you hear
• 53:51
  Speaker 2: these stories about what he does and people say, well,
• 53:55
  Speaker 2: is that what you're supposed to do? And the thing
• 53:57
  Speaker 2: about when people say method acting is they really don't
• 53:59
  Speaker 2: fundamentally understand what the method is. The method is an
• 54:05
  Speaker 2: invitation to find out for yourself what will unlock your imagination.
• 54:10
  Speaker 2: And that might be going hungry for two weeks, that
• 54:13
  Speaker 2: might be sleeping in a jail cell. It might be
• 54:16
  Speaker 2: reading twenty five books about it. It might be wearing
• 54:19
  Speaker 2: a weird headpiece. It's not a rule. It's about how
• 54:24
  Speaker 2: to unlock what's in here and bring it forward. That's
• 54:29
  Speaker 2: what the greats do.
• 54:30
  Speaker 1: And find that zone. This episode is brought to you
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  Speaker 1: by Uber Eats. Every football season, the same thing happens.
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  Speaker 1: The game somehow makes everyone really hungry. Quarterback scrambles clearly assigned,
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  Speaker 1: And when you're watching a movie, it does the exact
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  Speaker 1: same feeling, like I'm there with you whatever you're experiencing.
• 55:28
  Speaker 1: When you are in that zone and you really are
• 55:32
  Speaker 1: that person. I am not just saying, oh, he really
• 55:37
  Speaker 1: is that person. I'm with you. I'm with you in
• 55:40
  Speaker 1: the moment. I feel your anxiety. The scene in the
• 55:43
  Speaker 1: God damn, I forget the name of it. The film
• 55:45
  Speaker 1: you did with Julia Roberts, the dystopian End of Association movie.
• 55:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. Now that you said it went out of
• 55:51
  Speaker 2: my head too.
• 55:52
  Speaker 1: It's a great movie, All the Tesla's Crash.
• 55:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, with Mersha Ali and I.
• 55:59
  Speaker 1: Thank you.
• 55:59
  Speaker 2: That's a embarrassing for me. I'm supposed to know, but
• 56:01
  Speaker 2: when you said you could remember it and then all
• 56:03
  Speaker 2: of a sudden it went out of my mind.
• 56:03
  Speaker 1: Less embarrassing for me now that you didn't remember it,
• 56:06
  Speaker 1: because I was like, shit, I gotta remember that name
• 56:08
  Speaker 1: the scene where you grew up to the guy's house
• 56:11
  Speaker 1: and you pulls have gone on you. Yeah, I'm right
• 56:13
  Speaker 1: there with you. I'm like, oh shit, it was a
• 56:17
  Speaker 1: great scene.
• 56:18
  Speaker 2: It was a Kevin Bacon, yeah.
• 56:19
  Speaker 1: Phenomenal performance. Because I fucking believed you. I believed him.
• 56:24
  Speaker 1: I believe you. I believed it was happening, and I
• 56:27
  Speaker 1: was like, oh shit, it was oh shit, Like it
• 56:31
  Speaker 1: wasn't like that acting.
• 56:32
  Speaker 2: That scene is exactly what I'm talking about. Yeah, because
• 56:35
  Speaker 2: that's herschel Ali, Kevin Bacon, and myself in a very
• 56:39
  Speaker 2: well written scene. And those two guys are so easy
• 56:43
  Speaker 2: to act with. They are so they are is so
• 56:47
  Speaker 2: easy to disappear with them. We did that scene over
• 56:51
  Speaker 2: and over and over again, fifteen thousand different ways and
• 56:53
  Speaker 2: blah blah, and it was always I always loved it,
• 56:56
  Speaker 2: and you know I did. I had a temper tantrum
• 57:00
  Speaker 2: that day on set. But because your body, you're you're
• 57:12
  Speaker 2: winding your body up in such a way that it's
• 57:14
  Speaker 2: like an emotional currency or something. You have this thing
• 57:18
  Speaker 2: you're going to spend, but you have your body doesn't know.
• 57:20
  Speaker 2: It's vague. And if you do it right, you trick
• 57:25
  Speaker 2: your body into believing that I'm begging for my child's life.
• 57:29
  Speaker 2: I'm not acting. I'm begging Kevin Bacon for my child's life,
• 57:32
  Speaker 2: and he's going to decide whether or not my child
• 57:34
  Speaker 2: gets to live. Right. And if if you can get that,
• 57:38
  Speaker 2: that going shit starts to happen to you right things
• 57:43
  Speaker 2: you don't plan. And if Kevin is good, which he is,
• 57:46
  Speaker 2: Commerciall is good, then they're doing the same thing right.
• 57:52
  Speaker 2: He's if he gives me this thing that I need,
• 57:54
  Speaker 2: he's putting his wife at risk. You're not gonna do it.
• 57:58
  Speaker 2: I don't care about your kid, you know. And then
• 58:00
  Speaker 2: Herschel has got his character in his head. And then
• 58:03
  Speaker 2: then all of a sudden, people are actually behaving. They're
• 58:06
  Speaker 2: not reciting lines, they're not It's like I did one
• 58:09
  Speaker 2: of my earlier movies with a wolf. Right. It was
• 58:12
  Speaker 2: the best acting teacher I ever had, this wolf because
• 58:14
  Speaker 2: it was this movie called White Fang, right, little Disney
• 58:17
  Speaker 2: kids movie. Right, But it was a great teacher because
• 58:20
  Speaker 2: I had to do these scenes with this half half
• 58:22
  Speaker 2: breed wolf. And if I'm if you're the wolf, all right,
• 58:26
  Speaker 2: and we're doing a scene together, and what I'm really
• 58:29
  Speaker 2: thinking about is the camera. You know, the wolf turns around,
• 58:33
  Speaker 2: looks at the camera. Mmm. You know. You know when
• 58:38
  Speaker 2: you meet somebody and you know they're self conscious? Right?
• 58:41
  Speaker 2: You know why she's why she's so tense that you
• 58:43
  Speaker 2: don't you just we're nonverbal. We can communicate with each other.
• 58:48
  Speaker 2: Animals pick up on it instantly. If I'm actually talking
• 58:50
  Speaker 2: to the dog the wolf, if I'm actually in if
• 58:53
  Speaker 2: I'm present with this animal, the animal interacts with me,
• 58:59
  Speaker 2: you know, and especially especially a wolf. Many damn thing
• 59:06
  Speaker 2: bit me that day.
• 59:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah hard, Yeah, why to buite you? All right?
• 59:11
  Speaker 2: This is one of the best days of filming in
• 59:13
  Speaker 2: my life, no kidding, all right, which is an amazing
• 59:16
  Speaker 2: animal trainer. Clint were Out was his name, and we
• 59:20
  Speaker 2: wanted it. It was a scene where I'm getting the
• 59:21
  Speaker 2: wolf to trust me and uh, and it's gonna eat
• 59:26
  Speaker 2: out of my hand for the first time. And so
• 59:28
  Speaker 2: Clint had this amazing idea. It's like, what if you
• 59:30
  Speaker 2: could see for even from that shot, how far that's
• 59:32
  Speaker 2: a long lands? That thing put me on a little
• 59:35
  Speaker 2: tiny island where to you know, like some two rivers fork,
• 59:39
  Speaker 2: and so there's a little island of land right there.
• 59:42
  Speaker 2: And so we put see this wolf surrounded by water,
• 59:48
  Speaker 2: right and and I, this is flame. This isn't the
• 59:53
  Speaker 2: the animal that I knew really well. But the way
• 59:57
  Speaker 2: to get it to look like it is we have
• 59:59
  Speaker 2: to not know each other. And I spent all day
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 2: out there with this wolf, and whenever the camera started
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 2: thinking I might have a chance of getting to pet him,
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 2: they would start rolling and I just talked to the
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 2: wolf and I'd walk around and play and I just
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 2: had to try to be real with him and he
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 2: started to like me. I was, it's not boring, and
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 2: this is I'm getting close because he's starting to like me.
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 2: We've been playing a lot and it comes over and
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 2: okay you'll see you'll see him bite me if you want.
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 2: But amazing, amazing animal. But the point I'm trying to
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 2: say is I I sat out there for eleven hours
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 2: with this starving wolf, right trying to get him to
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 2: eat ready ready, and ouch, Okay, that wasn't that bad.
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 2: It wasn't that bad.
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 1: Well, bled Joe, but it didn't look he was trying
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 1: to hurt you.
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 2: No, No, he wasn't. He wouldn't. That's what I mean.
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 2: He wasn't he and so and by the end of
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 2: the day, check this out, man, I mean, it was
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 2: one of the most incredible experiences in my life. I
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 2: know it's the corny kids movie or whatever, but but.
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 1: But it's a real wolf and he doesn't noise acting.
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and he doesn't know he's acting. Yeah, right, And
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 2: so I got to be real. And I mean I
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 2: wept when that dog died, you know, because and I
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 2: think about that scene if when I'm doing anything you
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 2: know about being present, right, and that's uh, if I'm
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 2: trying to get the shot, the dog is not going
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 2: to eat out of my hand. If I actually want
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 2: to say, hey, oh you can trust me, right, you know,
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 2: I'd have to give up for hours, you know, and
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 2: just sit there. And we didn't have a phone. I'd
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 2: just sit there and whittle or something and walk over there,
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 2: toss the rocks for a little bit until he got
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 2: you know, it was it was such a fascinating experience.
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 1: Wow, well that's yeah. You can't act and you never can.
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 2: You never can. You never can. And one of the
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 2: things about you know, just a handful Laurie Metcalf comes
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 2: to the line, Denzel Washington, Sally Hawkins, Laura Lenny, there's
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 2: a handful. I mean I could a bunch of them,
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 2: Philip Seymore. There's a lot of great actors I've worked
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 2: with in my life. And what's so wonderful about them
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 2: is if you start acting, what are you doing? Kind
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 2: of sensor? Yeah, something smells weird. Phil is the best
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 2: at it because it wasn't it wouldn't just be about you.
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 2: Phil was amazing. You'd sit down to do a scene
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 2: with him and you'd be running it and stuff and
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 2: just what is it? Something smells bad?
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 1: What is it?
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 2: He is?
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 1: Me?
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 2: I don't know, man, it's the cups? The cup wrong? Maybe?
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 2: Should I be sitting over there? What smells wrong? Some fake?
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 1: What is it?
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 2: What's fake? Pasce it up? Let's try pascing it up. No,
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 2: that's not it. It's still bad, all right, I mean,
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 2: let me try this. And then the next day we'd
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 2: scream at you or something and everything would shift and
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 2: you know, the smell would change in the room. Yeah,
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 2: and it was like, it's like we're just shaking out.
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 2: What is self conscious? Something is self conscious here? Somebody's posing?
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 1: Is it me? Is it you?
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 2: Is it? The fucking prop? Is a table wrong? I
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 2: don't I don't believe this scene. And what it means
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 2: is when you're watching the movie, you the paying owience
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 2: aren't gonna be able to disappear something. You know, have
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 2: you ever seen you see a movie? Sometimes you're like,
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 2: why is she wearing that red jacket? Who thought that
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 2: was a good idea? And all you're thinking about is
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 2: a red jacket? Is this wrong? I don't know why
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 2: it's wrong, but everybody knows it. It's getting a wrong note.
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 1: I don't necessarily notice with clothes because I'm not very
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 1: close conscious, but I do notice what you're saying about
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 1: self consciousness, and I don't understand what it is. It's
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 1: like this untouchable, unweighable, unmeasurable element that just exists and
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 1: we know it. We know it's real.
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 2: Don't you feel it in here? Yeah, when somebody's being
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 2: funny with you? Oh yeah, Oh, somebody has a big
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 2: agenda about what they want to accomplish in your show
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 2: or something like that.
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 1: Oh for sure, especially political people or people that have
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 1: some sort of a controversial technology that really probably should
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 1: be regulated. Like I think, what we're going to be
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 1: able to do, there's amazing things.
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 2: And they get that tone that that Charlie Brown.
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 1: It's just an air of bullshit and I don't know
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 1: what that is and it's but it exists in acting.
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 1: It certainly exists in comedy too. I always say that
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 1: when I watch a great comic on stage, they take
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 1: me on a ride, like I let them think for me.
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 1: I'm sitting down think for me. You're thinking for me.
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 1: And when someone's thinking for you, it's just like your
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 1: your your free to explore their mind, and it's if
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 1: they're self conscious, you'll feel it. Like I see someone tense,
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 1: Like I have a club and a comedy club in town,
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 1: and when new people audition there or perform there, you
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 1: fucking feel the nerves. You feel the nerves, and I'm
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 1: always like, just give him a few minutes. Let them
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 1: shake it out. Just let them shake that. It's so
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 1: hard when so much is on the line to not
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 1: be self conscious. It's to be present, but.
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 2: You're smart to give him space. That's always what I feel.
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 2: Just give me space, give me space, give me space
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 2: to be bad. I need space to be bad. And
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 2: it's kind of like in the basketball, you got to
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 2: touch the ball. Let me touch the ball, me let
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 2: me make the links of it.
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 1: Well, we've all been bad, so it doesn't mean he
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 1: can't be good. When I see someone on stage and
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 1: they're self conscious and clunky, I'm like, this is a process.
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 1: This is not This is not like a rocket that
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 1: when you screw in the last rivets, you're ready to
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 1: light the fuse.
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 2: Love watching an actor I admire or be bad. I
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 2: love it. I love it because it's it's not it's
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 2: not a.
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 1: Science, right, it's not a science, and sometimes you.
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 2: Got to take a shot, and sometimes you miss well.
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 1: And sometimes you're going through a divorce, or you got
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 1: a fucking drug problem.
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 2: Or the directorshole or the you know, or they change
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 2: the script the other day, or or you hate the DP.
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 2: But what I was, I always tell my kids who
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 2: are really interested in my profession, or any young actor,
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 2: is like, I call that permission to fail is I don't.
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 2: I don't give anybody my I don't have permission to fail.
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 2: You know you, I don't care if you don't like
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 2: the first dad, I don't care if you don't like this.
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 2: This cannot give them that ability. I still fail. I'm
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 2: not saying that, but I don't want to see it,
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 2: you know. Yeah, And but that takes time. I spent
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 2: the first fifteen years of my career saying I didn't
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 2: do a good job because that guy as a jerriker,
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 2: I didn't do a good job because they changed the script,
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 2: or I didn't do a good job because of this,
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 2: that and the other thing. And then you see people
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 2: like back to our hero thing, you know, and then
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 2: you see people are really good and they don't they
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 2: don't Robert DeNiro doesn't give somebody the ability to screw
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 2: up his workday. They don't have that power. He takes
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 2: responsibility for that power.
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 1: Is that a learned thing or you could certainly learn
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 1: some of it from watching other people? But is that
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 1: just an experience thing?
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 2: I think it's it's the right manifestation of confidence, right.
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 2: Young people have to fake confidence. They just have to.
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 2: When you watch a young person in your club, they
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 2: gotta fake it. Of course, they're gonna have to go
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 2: burn through their nerves. They're gonna have to. But once
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 2: you have experience, you can have real confidence because you
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 2: fought this battle before. I know I have a certain
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 2: if I'm overwhelmed with if my nervous system is at
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 2: war with myself, I have a certain process I can
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 2: I've walked these woods before. You know, I know why
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 2: I'm lost, and I know what I need to do.
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 2: And it doesn't mean I'll always work through it. But
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 2: I'm much more likely too than I was twenty years ago.
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 1: You know, it's knowing that it's this process. When you
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 1: watch younger people do it, Do you ever, like, are
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 1: you ever working with a young person and it's not
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 1: clicking somehow and you're trying to figure out how to
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 1: help them, Like, is there a thing you can say
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 1: to them? Is there? Can you just do it by example? Only?
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 2: Example is the best the best teachers. Example unasked for
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 2: advice is never heard from the problem with young people
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 2: they don't often ask for advice, right they think they're
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 2: trying so hard to pretend like they know everything that
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 2: they feel like to ask advice.
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 1: I kind of feel like that's a generalization though, because
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 1: I do know a lot of young people that do
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 1: ask advice.
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 2: All right, Well, one of my thing is I can't
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 2: I cannot believe the amount of young people show up
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 2: on set with their phone. Oh yeah, and you were
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 2: saying about hypnosis. Let me tell you what's a destroyer
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 2: of collective imagination is our phones.
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 1: I was reading an article today, and I think it
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 1: was Psychology today about a study that they've done recently
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 1: on the impact of social media on cognitive function for children,
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 1: and that it's just fucking nuking their brains. I have
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 1: a fifteen year old, and a seventeen year old and
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 1: a twenty eight year old.
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 2: So what is your like, Because my wife and I
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 2: go through this all they want it's so bad and you,
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 2: as a parent, you want them to be happy, and
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 2: all their friends have Instagram. I know it destroys my brain.
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 2: How could it not hurt theirs? I find my own
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 2: powers of concentration are suffering. I'll be reading a book,
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 2: which I used to do all the time, and every
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 2: ten pages I take a break to look at my phone.
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 2: What's happening? Why am I doing this right? You know what?
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 2: So but they want it so bad and I want
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 2: them to be How do you handle that.
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 1: I do not put restrictions on my children's use of
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 1: social media, but we do have discussions about it because
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 1: I think it is an inexorable part of modern society,
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 1: and I think there is a social ostrasation that comes
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 1: from eliminating social media. Telling your kid they can have
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 1: a phone. I see it in other kids. I don't
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 1: think that's the solution.
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 2: My daughter is loving you right now. She is just
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 2: like see because she says, let me be teach me
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 2: to be responsible for it myself.
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 1: Help me do that. That's what I believe.
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 2: And you know, when we were thinking about what restrictions
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 2: we're going to do, we went on this walk with
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 2: this really good friend of mine. Richard Linklatter is an
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 2: amazing person, and they tried to My daughters hit him
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 2: up of what he thinks. He said, I don't know.
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 2: All I know is that the most important thing is
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 2: to be your own best friend, and that this is
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 2: a slight obstacle to it, that boredom, boredom and sitting
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 2: still with yourself is a membrane you kind of have
• 1:11:19
  Speaker 2: to pass through. And if you can make best friends
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 2: with yourself, then your best friend is always with you.
• 1:11:25
  Speaker 2: And so that's been my solution too, is to say,
• 1:11:28
  Speaker 2: all right, let's all there aren't limitations, but let's all
• 1:11:32
  Speaker 2: sit down and look at I'll show you how much
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 2: I looked at it, how much did you look at it?
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 2: How we doing? Do you feel? Is it helping? Is
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 2: it hurting? Because what you're one thousand percent right about
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 2: is it's part of the social structure of their lives,
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 2: and to isolate them from it is to you can't
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 2: pretend that doesn't have negative side effects.
• 1:11:55
  Speaker 1: Well, one of my children, well both of my children,
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 1: my young children, are very disciplined, and one of them
• 1:12:01
  Speaker 1: just opted out, just decided she's not going to get
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 1: on social media anymore. And she got this app and
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 1: this is nobody forced her to do this. She got
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 1: this app that locks you out and it shows you
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 1: how many days you've been off of Instagram, so to
• 1:12:15
  Speaker 1: sort of incentivize you, you know, to stay off of it.
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 1: You know, the last time she checks, she been off
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 1: like ninety nine days or something like that. No Instagram,
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 1: no nothing. But it is addictive, and but there's a
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 1: lot of things in life that are addictive, and so
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 1: the question is like how addictive is it? Like what
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 1: is calling you to get nothing? Because that's what you get.
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 1: You get nothing. You get these like tiny dopamine hits,
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 1: like staring at something for a few seconds, like that's
• 1:12:46
  Speaker 1: provocative or that's crazy, Like why is he saying that?
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 1: Or why is that happening? Oh my god, they're gonna die,
• 1:12:51
  Speaker 1: you know. Like what I have this terrible text the
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 1: right but me and my friend Tom Sigura, where we
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 1: send each other the absolute worst things that we find
• 1:12:59
  Speaker 1: online every day, Like every day it's a guy got
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 1: you can run over by a train, car accidents, gunshots,
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 1: South American assassinations, it's just all every day. It's just
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 1: all the worst things you could possibly find on the internet.
• 1:13:13
  Speaker 1: There's no good in that, you know, we do that
• 1:13:15
  Speaker 1: to fuck with each other because it's kind of funny
• 1:13:17
  Speaker 1: because he's a comedian too, and we just fuck with
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 1: each other. It's just like silly, like oh boy, Like
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 1: he sends me things and I send him things. But
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 1: for the most part I get nothing. It's mostly nothing.
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 1: Occasionally I say it's like as a I make this excuse,
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 1: like as a comic, Oh, I need to be up
• 1:13:33
  Speaker 1: on the zeitgeist. You need to be paying attention to
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 1: what people are paying attention to. But you kind of
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 1: get it anyway. You kind of get it anyway, just
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 1: through life, and it's better that way because then you
• 1:13:43
  Speaker 1: only get the real significant things. You don't get the
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 1: the you don't have to sift through everything. It's like
• 1:13:48
  Speaker 1: you have a you have a filter. Society acts as
• 1:13:51
  Speaker 1: your filter to get you the most pertinent information. But
• 1:13:57
  Speaker 1: I think leading by example with kids is the best
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 1: way with everything. My kids are both very disciplined. They
• 1:14:03
  Speaker 1: get a lot of things done, and they work really hard,
• 1:14:06
  Speaker 1: which I'm very proud of. They're also really nice, which
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 1: I'm also very proud of. I think that's it's the
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 1: hardest fucking thing to do, is to just be nice,
• 1:14:15
  Speaker 1: to be a kind person. The worst thing for kindness
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 1: is social media. Children in particular are so fucking mean
• 1:14:26
  Speaker 1: to each other on social media. There's so mean to
• 1:14:29
  Speaker 1: each other in comments, and they talk about how one
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 1: of their friends is getting bullied and this person is
• 1:14:33
  Speaker 1: doing this, and they're leaving comments on this and from
• 1:14:36
  Speaker 1: a rival high school and this and a that, and
• 1:14:38
  Speaker 1: like it's like, but I also think that that process
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 1: of understanding that this there is this bizarre social interaction
• 1:14:45
  Speaker 1: that's not real, that is a part of life, and
• 1:14:50
  Speaker 1: that you have to develop a resilience to this.
• 1:14:52
  Speaker 2: Getting tough is important. Like I think one of the
• 1:14:55
  Speaker 2: things kids are experiencing now is what I experienced with
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 2: the first blush of celebrity. I mean, you want to
• 1:15:02
  Speaker 2: tell about negative comments, try being an actor or everybody's
• 1:15:06
  Speaker 2: got opinion about you?
• 1:15:07
  Speaker 1: What to fake? You are?
• 1:15:08
  Speaker 2: What a phoney you are? This sucks about you? You're
• 1:15:11
  Speaker 2: this is dumb, this is what you're like. You know,
• 1:15:15
  Speaker 2: it's I have lost unbelievable, ridiculous amount of hours to
• 1:15:21
  Speaker 2: my mother will send me a really nice review of something,
• 1:15:25
  Speaker 2: something positive about me, Right, I'll look at it and
• 1:15:28
  Speaker 2: my brain goes, what are the comments nasty? I mean,
• 1:15:33
  Speaker 2: just the nastiest things, and you can't believe that's some
• 1:15:36
  Speaker 2: But I don't want to, you know, give it too
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 2: much time. But I actually think it really makes you
• 1:15:42
  Speaker 2: stronger to realize. Of course people don't like you.
• 1:15:46
  Speaker 1: Over time, it's fine.
• 1:15:48
  Speaker 2: They don't like you. Guess what, Half the people every
• 1:15:50
  Speaker 2: party you went to didn't like you. Okay, but they're
• 1:15:52
  Speaker 2: also not thinking very much about you. They're thinking about themselves.
• 1:15:55
  Speaker 2: And you start to realize that this is just people
• 1:15:59
  Speaker 2: talking at the barber shop. People have been gossiping their
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 2: whole throughout the history of mankind. Now you can read
• 1:16:05
  Speaker 2: it if you want, but it's it has no venom
• 1:16:10
  Speaker 2: in it. It's not real, right. And the sooner you
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 2: learn that other people's opinions don't have to affect you,
• 1:16:17
  Speaker 2: I think the better off you are so in that way, Eh,
• 1:16:21
  Speaker 2: it hurt me. I've seen it happen to actors, especially
• 1:16:23
  Speaker 2: if you're doing stage. I'm sure with comics. When you're
• 1:16:26
  Speaker 2: doing a play and you have to do it every night,
• 1:16:29
  Speaker 2: and you start reading a lot of bad things that
• 1:16:32
  Speaker 2: people say about you, it is it is demolishing to
• 1:16:38
  Speaker 2: your confidence, you know. I mean I had this actor
• 1:16:42
  Speaker 2: friend of mine. We shared dressing room, and one day
• 1:16:45
  Speaker 2: he came in and he was great in the show.
• 1:16:46
  Speaker 2: And he came in and it's just his whole energy
• 1:16:49
  Speaker 2: was dark. It's like yards, I went down the rabbit
• 1:16:52
  Speaker 2: hole last night. Read what people are saying about me
• 1:16:57
  Speaker 2: the internet. Everybody's sound terrible in this play, and I'm like,
• 1:17:02
  Speaker 2: they don't like your character, you know, like they're people
• 1:17:06
  Speaker 2: are not so brilliant. You know, there's there's an all
• 1:17:09
  Speaker 2: geniuses out there chiming in on what a jerk you
• 1:17:11
  Speaker 2: are at three in the morning. Right, Okay, you don't
• 1:17:15
  Speaker 2: have to take serious, but you know, it took him
• 1:17:18
  Speaker 2: weeks to get his mojo back, because he would step
• 1:17:21
  Speaker 2: out on stage just imagining this chorus of hate.
• 1:17:25
  Speaker 1: I had the exact same conversation last night with a
• 1:17:28
  Speaker 1: famous comedian friend of mine. Really say his name, but
• 1:17:30
  Speaker 1: he went down a Reddit rabbit hole the other night.
• 1:17:33
  Speaker 2: I don't do it anymode, I don't do it.
• 1:17:35
  Speaker 1: He goes, I fucked up and I went down this.
• 1:17:36
  Speaker 2: Rat it don't do it. No good comes from it.
• 1:17:39
  Speaker 1: And he was like, they fucking hate me. I go, no, no, no,
• 1:17:42
  Speaker 1: they hate themselves, they hate everything. There's no like Michael
• 1:17:47
  Speaker 1: Jordan's not leaving Reddit comments. You know what I'm saying, like,
• 1:17:49
  Speaker 1: there's not winners. These are fucking people that are not
• 1:17:53
  Speaker 1: doing what they want to be doing, and they want
• 1:17:55
  Speaker 1: to hate on everybody that's out there that's out there
• 1:17:58
  Speaker 1: in the public eye. Some of it is valid, you know.
• 1:18:02
  Speaker 1: The really the scary hate is when you get hate
• 1:18:04
  Speaker 1: like from Quentin Tarantino where he's going off on that
• 1:18:06
  Speaker 1: guy from all Dan Blood.
• 1:18:08
  Speaker 2: But here that's a great lesson, it is, actually there's
• 1:18:12
  Speaker 2: a great lesson that you know what. I don't think
• 1:18:14
  Speaker 2: Paul Dano ever knew that so many people loved him,
• 1:18:18
  Speaker 2: right yet, right, I don't know where Paul Daniels just
• 1:18:22
  Speaker 2: going abat his life. He's got to wake up one
• 1:18:24
  Speaker 2: morning and find out this directors just went off on
• 1:18:26
  Speaker 2: him and saying this hateful things. But anybody that knows
• 1:18:30
  Speaker 2: Quenton knows he just talks, talks, talks, talk, talk talks. Right,
• 1:18:33
  Speaker 2: anybody knows Paul knows he's a great, world class human being.
• 1:18:36
  Speaker 2: And you know, and all this love for Paul's coming out,
• 1:18:39
  Speaker 2: and it's a great lesson in that that you don't
• 1:18:41
  Speaker 2: have to worry about the negativity that people send you.
• 1:18:43
  Speaker 2: A way you have to worry about it.
• 1:18:45
  Speaker 1: All from one of the greatest actors or one of
• 1:18:47
  Speaker 1: the greatest directors of all. Yeah, yeah, it's okay.
• 1:18:49
  Speaker 2: And guess what, every you know, I'm positive positive. There
• 1:18:54
  Speaker 2: are great directors that think I suck. I'm positive, Quinny says.
• 1:19:00
  Speaker 2: You know, he just says whatever comes into his mind.
• 1:19:02
  Speaker 2: I remember once I met I met some director and
• 1:19:06
  Speaker 2: I won't say his name, at a bar is dive
• 1:19:09
  Speaker 2: bar in New York except but he's a really famous
• 1:19:11
  Speaker 2: big shot. Directory's sitting there and he just seen my
• 1:19:14
  Speaker 2: most recent movie. He's like, you know, you were pretty
• 1:19:18
  Speaker 2: good no One. And in the comment was the subtitle
• 1:19:24
  Speaker 2: underneath it was I have hated you for twenty seven years.
• 1:19:28
  Speaker 2: That's it was so clear, you know, and know this
• 1:19:32
  Speaker 2: came through Yeah, I mean it was so close. I
• 1:19:34
  Speaker 2: was like, wow, wow, well, no, wonder you've never offered
• 1:19:36
  Speaker 2: me a movie. And directors have opinions, right, they have
• 1:19:40
  Speaker 2: super strong opinions. What do they have a strong opinions
• 1:19:43
  Speaker 2: about acting?
• 1:19:44
  Speaker 1: Right?
• 1:19:44
  Speaker 2: And you know what he's talking about the movie he
• 1:19:46
  Speaker 2: would have directed. Okay, that's not talking about Paul Danoh,
• 1:19:50
  Speaker 2: He's talking about something else. He's like, you said about
• 1:19:52
  Speaker 2: the thing. They're talking about themselves. Obviously, whenever anybody says
• 1:19:56
  Speaker 2: something hateful, they're talking about themselves. That's that's who they're
• 1:19:59
  Speaker 2: talking And the punchline this whole thing is, you know,
• 1:20:03
  Speaker 2: I've worked with Paul a couple of different times, and
• 1:20:06
  Speaker 2: I love the guy and I'm so happy for him. Immediately,
• 1:20:10
  Speaker 2: every other comment everywhere, somebodys saying something great about Paul Danels.
• 1:20:14
  Speaker 1: So the majority, the vast majority of comments were really
• 1:20:17
  Speaker 1: positive about him, and I went and rewatched the scene
• 1:20:20
  Speaker 1: because of it. He was fucking great in it. He
• 1:20:23
  Speaker 1: played a great like that guy.
• 1:20:27
  Speaker 2: It's not up for debate. It's you know, it's not
• 1:20:29
  Speaker 2: up for debate.
• 1:20:30
  Speaker 1: I'm sure if you were.
• 1:20:32
  Speaker 2: Alone drinking with Steven Spielberg, he'd shock you with some
• 1:20:35
  Speaker 2: opinion he you know, he hates Orson Welles or something
• 1:20:39
  Speaker 2: like that.
• 1:20:40
  Speaker 1: You know what I mean.
• 1:20:40
  Speaker 2: I mean, we wouldn't be a good director if he
• 1:20:43
  Speaker 2: wasn't opinionated. Of course, you know, it doesn't mean he's
• 1:20:45
  Speaker 2: the truth.
• 1:20:46
  Speaker 1: Of course. It's just the opening up your vulnerability to
• 1:20:53
  Speaker 1: the masses and the most trivial and flippant ways of commenting,
• 1:21:00
  Speaker 1: which is like leaving a comment on a YouTube video
• 1:21:03
  Speaker 1: or something like that. It's just not wise. It's not good,
• 1:21:06
  Speaker 1: especially if you actually let it get into your psyche
• 1:21:09
  Speaker 1: and you take it in as real, because we are
• 1:21:11
  Speaker 1: designed to recognize threats, danger, negativity, because it's important.
• 1:21:18
  Speaker 2: Like that's sorry to cut you off, but that's the truth.
• 1:21:21
  Speaker 2: The reason why it hurts me when it comes is
• 1:21:25
  Speaker 2: exactly what you I'm worried they're gonna take my career away.
• 1:21:28
  Speaker 2: I love what I do. If I do a big
• 1:21:31
  Speaker 2: movie and I really work hard. In the New York
• 1:21:34
  Speaker 2: Times and the LA Times says that he sucks. I
• 1:21:38
  Speaker 2: don't really care about that critics opinion.
• 1:21:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah I care.
• 1:21:42
  Speaker 2: Is this gonna stop me from doing what I love?
• 1:21:45
  Speaker 2: Because I know it's fragile. I know that there are
• 1:21:48
  Speaker 2: a million talented people, right, I know that. I know
• 1:21:53
  Speaker 2: that I'm lucky. I know that I'm fortunate. So it
• 1:21:55
  Speaker 2: is scary. It is a threat, right, I mean, but
• 1:21:59
  Speaker 2: it is, but you got you gotta get tough. I'm
• 1:22:02
  Speaker 2: sorry I cut you off.
• 1:22:03
  Speaker 1: And I have a good point. It's funny, you know
• 1:22:05
  Speaker 1: what I mean? Yeah, you do, And I mean I
• 1:22:09
  Speaker 1: don't want to be cruel, but I also this is
• 1:22:11
  Speaker 1: how I feel critics in particular, I do not think
• 1:22:15
  Speaker 1: they want to be critics. And I feel like most
• 1:22:18
  Speaker 1: people who become critics become critics because they don't have
• 1:22:21
  Speaker 1: anything to contribute. They're not great writers. They or they
• 1:22:26
  Speaker 1: never developed the ability to be a great writer, or
• 1:22:28
  Speaker 1: they never pursued it, or whatever it is. They don't.
• 1:22:31
  Speaker 1: They're not great actors. They're not they're just criticizing. Criticizing,
• 1:22:36
  Speaker 1: Like criticizing from Quentin Tarantino was a very different thing
• 1:22:39
  Speaker 1: than a criticism that comes from a person that's just
• 1:22:42
  Speaker 1: a critic. And I remember I had this, There was
• 1:22:45
  Speaker 1: this moment when Fear Factor came out, Like, Fear Factor
• 1:22:48
  Speaker 1: is a fucking completely idiotic show. It's just that's all
• 1:22:53
  Speaker 1: it is, is just escapism. It's chaos, people doing stupid
• 1:22:57
  Speaker 1: shit for money. This is crazy, this is nuts. All
• 1:23:00
  Speaker 1: oh my god, are they really gonna do this?
• 1:23:01
  Speaker 2: Ah?
• 1:23:02
  Speaker 1: And maybe you get something out of the end, like
• 1:23:04
  Speaker 1: that guy pulled it out or she did it.
• 1:23:06
  Speaker 2: She didn't want to do Face the Snake.
• 1:23:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but it's really usually like the end thing is
• 1:23:10
  Speaker 1: like something physical. But Fear Factor came out right after
• 1:23:14
  Speaker 1: nine to eleven, That's when it came out, and One
• 1:23:18
  Speaker 1: of the criticisms was, do you really think America needs
• 1:23:22
  Speaker 1: to be facing fear after we just experienced September eleventh
• 1:23:26
  Speaker 1: terrorist attack? And I got this question in an interview,
• 1:23:30
  Speaker 1: and you know, my perspective on fear factor in the
• 1:23:34
  Speaker 1: beginning was I'm only doing this because I think it's
• 1:23:36
  Speaker 1: gonna get canceled. I'm like, I'll get some material out
• 1:23:38
  Speaker 1: of this, like they're gonna stick dogs on people and
• 1:23:40
  Speaker 1: make meat animal dicks. I'm in, I'm like, this is
• 1:23:44
  Speaker 1: gonna this is gonna get canceled like fucking three weeks,
• 1:23:46
  Speaker 1: and I'm gonna have a bit on how fucking stupid
• 1:23:49
  Speaker 1: this show was. And it wound up doing like one
• 1:23:51
  Speaker 1: hundred and sixty eight episodes. It was ridiculous, And I said,
• 1:23:55
  Speaker 1: and I got upset in this interview. I go, that's
• 1:23:58
  Speaker 1: just ridiculous. Like they were questioning me whether or not
• 1:24:01
  Speaker 1: America needs to be scared after nine eleven. I'm going,
• 1:24:04
  Speaker 1: it's not fucking scary. And I'm like, what do you
• 1:24:07
  Speaker 1: talk You're making something into something it's not just so
• 1:24:10
  Speaker 1: that you can write an article like this is nonsense.
• 1:24:13
  Speaker 1: And I go that kind of criticism is the type
• 1:24:15
  Speaker 1: of criticism from a person where I'm not interested in
• 1:24:18
  Speaker 1: your opinion. I don't think you're a particularly unique thinker,
• 1:24:22
  Speaker 1: and you're saying something that's nonsense. It's nonsense. It's a
• 1:24:26
  Speaker 1: stupid show. I'll tell you it's a stupid show, and
• 1:24:28
  Speaker 1: it's my fucking show. I don't care. It's just entertainment,
• 1:24:32
  Speaker 1: that's all it is. And I think the people that
• 1:24:34
  Speaker 1: write this are writing this in that way because you
• 1:24:37
  Speaker 1: don't have anything to contribute. And I met that person
• 1:24:40
  Speaker 1: at a party. There was one of those you know
• 1:24:43
  Speaker 1: they have, like if you're on a television show. They
• 1:24:45
  Speaker 1: have those NBC things where you go and it's like
• 1:24:47
  Speaker 1: there's all these different reporters and all the actors from
• 1:24:50
  Speaker 1: all the shows are there. And the guy was like,
• 1:24:51
  Speaker 1: you know, I gotta tell you that really pissed me off.
• 1:24:53
  Speaker 1: I go, why because it's accurate? I go, what pissed
• 1:24:56
  Speaker 1: you off? I go? You say horrible, hurtful things about
• 1:24:59
  Speaker 1: all the different people, and the course of their career
• 1:25:03
  Speaker 1: is dependent upon your opinions. To a certain extent, you
• 1:25:07
  Speaker 1: could shape other people's narratives about who this actor is,
• 1:25:12
  Speaker 1: about who this person is, and you just do it
• 1:25:14
  Speaker 1: because you don't have anything else to contribute. And so
• 1:25:17
  Speaker 1: when I said you don't have anything else to contribute,
• 1:25:18
  Speaker 1: that hurt your feelings. That's why I pissed you off.
• 1:25:21
  Speaker 1: It didn't pissed you off because it wasn't accurate. And
• 1:25:24
  Speaker 1: we had this like weird moment, you know, where he
• 1:25:27
  Speaker 1: was like taken into consideration what I was saying, and
• 1:25:30
  Speaker 1: he was like okay, And I go, okay, I'm not
• 1:25:32
  Speaker 1: a bad guy, and I don't think you're a bad guy,
• 1:25:34
  Speaker 1: but you have to realize this weight to your words.
• 1:25:36
  Speaker 1: And I realized there's weight to my words. That's why
• 1:25:38
  Speaker 1: I lashed out like that. I think this is stupid.
• 1:25:41
  Speaker 1: I'll tell you this show stupid. It's a stupid show.
• 1:25:45
  Speaker 1: We're not making fucking Shakespeare in the Park, bro, We're
• 1:25:48
  Speaker 1: making people like line up, cough and fill with rats.
• 1:25:51
  Speaker 1: It's retarded. But it's okay. It's okay to have dumb shit.
• 1:25:54
  Speaker 1: It's okay to have burgers, it's okay to have you know,
• 1:25:57
  Speaker 1: Filet mignon at a fine restaurant. Absolutely all these things
• 1:26:00
  Speaker 1: are okay. Like, but call it what it is. If
• 1:26:02
  Speaker 1: you want to say it's a dumb show, I'm right
• 1:26:04
  Speaker 1: there with you. But if you want to say, like,
• 1:26:06
  Speaker 1: this is bad for America because America just got attacked
• 1:26:09
  Speaker 1: by and it's called fear factor, like shut up, just
• 1:26:12
  Speaker 1: shut up. And I just think he didn't like the
• 1:26:15
  Speaker 1: fact that I was.
• 1:26:16
  Speaker 2: That you were criticizing him.
• 1:26:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well I was willing to do what he does
• 1:26:20
  Speaker 1: to him without fear because I had already checked out
• 1:26:22
  Speaker 1: of acting. I did five years on news radio and
• 1:26:25
  Speaker 1: I decided I'm done acting. I was like, I don't
• 1:26:26
  Speaker 1: want to do this anymore. I only did it for
• 1:26:28
  Speaker 1: money in the first place. I never wanted to be
• 1:26:29
  Speaker 1: an actor. The only reason why I ever got on
• 1:26:31
  Speaker 1: a I got on a sitcom with zero acting experience. Zero.
• 1:26:36
  Speaker 1: I mean I had nouns how I did. I did
• 1:26:39
  Speaker 1: MTV half hour Comedy Hour, which was this comedy show
• 1:26:42
  Speaker 1: that you used to be on MTV. I did like
• 1:26:44
  Speaker 1: a ten minute set and I got a development deal.
• 1:26:46
  Speaker 1: I was like, what, Like, all of a sudden, they
• 1:26:48
  Speaker 1: gave me money. I was poor my whole life, and
• 1:26:50
  Speaker 1: then all of a sudden, I had one hundred and
• 1:26:51
  Speaker 1: fifty thousand dollars. I'm like, this is crazy. I have money,
• 1:26:55
  Speaker 1: like it was nuts, And my manager actually thought I
• 1:26:58
  Speaker 1: had a gambling problem because I was spending so much money,
• 1:27:00
  Speaker 1: and he was like, what are you spending money? I'm
• 1:27:01
  Speaker 1: like eating lobster every night. I was so dumb. I
• 1:27:05
  Speaker 1: thought it was just gonna run out and then I'd
• 1:27:06
  Speaker 1: go back to being poor again. But all of a sudden,
• 1:27:08
  Speaker 1: I'm on this show and I'm acting, and I realized
• 1:27:12
  Speaker 1: at the end of five years, it was a wonderful
• 1:27:15
  Speaker 1: job with an amazing, incredible group of talented people. But
• 1:27:18
  Speaker 1: I don't want to do it again. It's not my thing.
• 1:27:20
  Speaker 1: I don't like it. So when fear Factor came up,
• 1:27:22
  Speaker 1: I'm like, ooh, this is a way to make a
• 1:27:24
  Speaker 1: lot of money without doing anything that's acting. Okay, I'll
• 1:27:28
  Speaker 1: do it. And so dealing with these people that I'd
• 1:27:31
  Speaker 1: seen the impact of their words on all the people
• 1:27:34
  Speaker 1: that I worked with, Like we used to sit around,
• 1:27:37
  Speaker 1: you know, you have the table reads, and then people
• 1:27:40
  Speaker 1: would start reading Variety, and they'd start reading the Hollywood
• 1:27:43
  Speaker 1: Reporter and all lost of things, and they would all
• 1:27:45
  Speaker 1: be super bummed out, and I would call it the
• 1:27:47
  Speaker 1: Devil's Rag. So I'd go there, oh, you guys are
• 1:27:49
  Speaker 1: reading the Devil's Rag again. I go fucking throw that away.
• 1:27:52
  Speaker 1: It was like the early versions of don't read the comments,
• 1:27:54
  Speaker 1: I go, you guys are reading the Devil's Rag. Don't
• 1:27:56
  Speaker 1: fucking read that, because then they would be all bummed out, like, oh,
• 1:27:59
  Speaker 1: they think we sho now that they suck. We're trying
• 1:28:03
  Speaker 1: to make a good sitcom. Let's just try harder. The
• 1:28:06
  Speaker 1: best way to not make a good sitcom is to
• 1:28:08
  Speaker 1: read shitty things about you.
• 1:28:10
  Speaker 2: Definitely you're gonna.
• 1:28:11
  Speaker 1: Go in and be really bummed out. And this constant
• 1:28:15
  Speaker 1: process of dealing with other people's opinions, and especially negative
• 1:28:19
  Speaker 1: opinions from people that you don't really like in the
• 1:28:22
  Speaker 1: first place. They're not happy people. It is. It's such
• 1:28:25
  Speaker 1: a it's such a poison for your mind.
• 1:28:29
  Speaker 2: Well, and that's why we're talking about the same thing
• 1:28:31
  Speaker 2: with the Internet, is figuring out a way to give
• 1:28:35
  Speaker 2: it no space in your mind, because you know people
• 1:28:38
  Speaker 2: are gonna do what they're gonna do, and they're you're
• 1:28:39
  Speaker 2: not in charge of them. That's what I feel like
• 1:28:42
  Speaker 2: that when you absorb too much of that hate and
• 1:28:45
  Speaker 2: take it on yourself, you're forgetting that somebody writes something
• 1:28:50
  Speaker 2: hateful about somebody else, whether it's Quentin or whether it's
• 1:28:53
  Speaker 2: this person or that person or whatever. Most people hear
• 1:28:57
  Speaker 2: it and think, Wow, I wonder why he said that,
• 1:29:00
  Speaker 2: what's wrong with him? They don't think something. So when
• 1:29:03
  Speaker 2: a lot of times I might take it really personally,
• 1:29:05
  Speaker 2: something that somebody hateful writes about me, but the world
• 1:29:09
  Speaker 2: believes it. The world has people Michael Jordan, who's not
• 1:29:13
  Speaker 2: writing comments, might come across that and think, God, that
• 1:29:16
  Speaker 2: writer's an asshole. That's what he's not thinking. You're an asshole,
• 1:29:19
  Speaker 2: or you know, if you're not saying something substantive. Other
• 1:29:23
  Speaker 2: people have a brain in their head and they know it,
• 1:29:26
  Speaker 2: and so you can just ignore. I feel he can
• 1:29:28
  Speaker 2: just ignore it. I've never gained anything except perhaps the
• 1:29:33
  Speaker 2: value of a thick skin from all that.
• 1:29:34
  Speaker 1: The value of a thick skin is important, though, and
• 1:29:37
  Speaker 1: there's some value to being pert, to taking it in
• 1:29:42
  Speaker 1: and then realize it's dangerous to take it.
• 1:29:44
  Speaker 2: In and you must know. Like with your show, I imagine
• 1:29:48
  Speaker 2: I don't really understand really how this works, but there's
• 1:29:51
  Speaker 2: people who finance it and distribute it. There's people you
• 1:29:54
  Speaker 2: have to work with, and they all have opinions, and
• 1:29:56
  Speaker 2: like I'm doing this show right now, the Lowdown with
• 1:29:59
  Speaker 2: FX right it's the first time I've ever done a
• 1:30:01
  Speaker 2: television show, and I'm having a great experience with it.
• 1:30:05
  Speaker 2: But you have to figure out you're working with a
• 1:30:08
  Speaker 2: lot of different people. You got FX has got their
• 1:30:11
  Speaker 2: opinions about how the show is, and they're going to
• 1:30:13
  Speaker 2: be distributed on Hulu, and they're owned by Disney and everybody.
• 1:30:17
  Speaker 2: And you have to learn how to take criticism go
• 1:30:21
  Speaker 2: all right, and also how to stand up for yourself
• 1:30:24
  Speaker 2: when you know what you know your aim is true,
• 1:30:28
  Speaker 2: and you have to be humble enough to tell the
• 1:30:30
  Speaker 2: difference because anybody wh thinks they're always right as an
• 1:30:32
  Speaker 2: asshole right. So sometimes you need their help and you
• 1:30:37
  Speaker 2: have things to be taught, and sometimes you have to
• 1:30:40
  Speaker 2: stand up for yourself and say, this is the kind
• 1:30:42
  Speaker 2: of art I want to make, and I'm living and
• 1:30:44
  Speaker 2: dying on this, but actually what you're saying actually could
• 1:30:49
  Speaker 2: help me do what I'm doing. And the same thing
• 1:30:51
  Speaker 2: with directors if you can't. When you were talking about
• 1:30:54
  Speaker 2: advice for young people, the first thing that popped in
• 1:30:58
  Speaker 2: my head is something one of my first directors said
• 1:31:04
  Speaker 2: to me, which was he said, what I was twenty one,
• 1:31:08
  Speaker 2: I was doing my first I was making my Broadway
• 1:31:09
  Speaker 2: debut and this director said, what have you done? And
• 1:31:12
  Speaker 2: I said, well, I did Explorers, you know, when I
• 1:31:15
  Speaker 2: was a kid, and I did this movie, did Poet Society,
• 1:31:17
  Speaker 2: and I acted in this school play. I played Tom
• 1:31:20
  Speaker 2: and Glass Bannagerie my senior year, and you know. And
• 1:31:23
  Speaker 2: this director looked at me and said, so you've done nothing.
• 1:31:29
  Speaker 2: And I took offense at that, you know, I said,
• 1:31:32
  Speaker 2: I have done some things. He said, I need you
• 1:31:34
  Speaker 2: to say I've done nothing. I need you to say
• 1:31:40
  Speaker 2: I don't know. And if you can say I don't know,
• 1:31:45
  Speaker 2: I can teach you. And if you can't say I
• 1:31:48
  Speaker 2: don't know, then I really can't teach you. And it
• 1:31:52
  Speaker 2: was my twenty one year old ego, like was just buckling.
• 1:31:57
  Speaker 2: You know, I do know what I do I'm doing.
• 1:31:58
  Speaker 2: I do know what I'm doing. And he said, you've
• 1:32:02
  Speaker 2: never been on Broadway before, you've never done Chekhov before,
• 1:32:05
  Speaker 2: and you can't say I don't know what I'm doing.
• 1:32:09
  Speaker 2: So I can't say that I don't know what I'm doing.
• 1:32:11
  Speaker 2: See it's not that hard, you know, because if you
• 1:32:14
  Speaker 2: can say that. I remember this like the first time
• 1:32:17
  Speaker 2: going out surfing once, like somebody's trying to teach me.
• 1:32:20
  Speaker 2: How to surfing. And I was like sixteen. I kept
• 1:32:21
  Speaker 2: saying I know how to do it. I know I
• 1:32:23
  Speaker 2: know how to do it. I didn't know how to
• 1:32:25
  Speaker 2: do it, but I couldn't. My ego couldn't buck. And
• 1:32:29
  Speaker 2: if you can get to that zen taboola rasa's no
• 1:32:33
  Speaker 2: place the beginner's mind. See now, at fifty five, I
• 1:32:36
  Speaker 2: always say I don't know what I'm doing. It's so
• 1:32:39
  Speaker 2: easy for me to say it, you know, it is
• 1:32:42
  Speaker 2: so easy. You know, one lifetime is not enough to
• 1:32:45
  Speaker 2: know what you're doing. There are so many more rooms,
• 1:32:48
  Speaker 2: There's so many more layers, you know. And so that's
• 1:32:53
  Speaker 2: the advice I have for young people's story is to
• 1:32:56
  Speaker 2: be humble and admit because you've done a handful of
• 1:32:59
  Speaker 2: things doesn't mean you know what you're doing. And even
• 1:33:03
  Speaker 2: though I might have even had some success, I didn't
• 1:33:05
  Speaker 2: know why it was successful.
• 1:33:07
  Speaker 1: Right, You know, that's a great The beginner's mind is
• 1:33:12
  Speaker 1: a great point to start, because even if you're really
• 1:33:17
  Speaker 1: good at something like say you're a good piano player
• 1:33:19
  Speaker 1: and you want to learn how to play tennis, you
• 1:33:22
  Speaker 1: start from a beginner's mind. You have to. And if
• 1:33:25
  Speaker 1: you go into that tennis lesson, going do you know
• 1:33:28
  Speaker 1: how fucking good I am a piano? Like, don't talk
• 1:33:31
  Speaker 1: to me like that, Like, no, you don't know how
• 1:33:33
  Speaker 1: to play tennis, Let me show you how to play tennis.
• 1:33:35
  Speaker 1: Like everyone is a beginner at a thing they don't know,
• 1:33:37
  Speaker 1: and to take on as many things as you don't
• 1:33:39
  Speaker 1: know as possible to keep that beginner's mind is actually
• 1:33:43
  Speaker 1: immensely beneficial for your ego, for your objectivity, for everything.
• 1:33:47
  Speaker 2: For everything. You could see it with somebody like you
• 1:33:49
  Speaker 2: who's had a lot of transitions in your life about
• 1:33:52
  Speaker 2: different career paths and different things that you're that's always
• 1:33:55
  Speaker 2: forcing you into a beginner's mind. And that's I think
• 1:33:59
  Speaker 2: I'm the same thing to myself, you know. Like what
• 1:34:02
  Speaker 2: keeps me excited is like, all right, got it. I
• 1:34:05
  Speaker 2: don't know. I'm gonna write a graphic novel. I'm gonna
• 1:34:07
  Speaker 2: work with this guy, Greg Ruth. He's a brilliant illustrator.
• 1:34:09
  Speaker 2: I'm gonna make a graphic novel. Now, I've never done
• 1:34:11
  Speaker 2: that before. I have no idea how graphic novel works.
• 1:34:14
  Speaker 2: I know I've loved them my whole life, but I've
• 1:34:16
  Speaker 2: never made one. Greg has right. We work together. He
• 1:34:19
  Speaker 2: teaches me Sterlin har Joe with the show The Lowdown Boom.
• 1:34:22
  Speaker 2: I've never done a show. He made Reservation Dogs, He's
• 1:34:24
  Speaker 2: done this. I don't know this landscape, and I love
• 1:34:27
  Speaker 2: that feeling because I don't lose all the value of
• 1:34:30
  Speaker 2: the things I do know about. It's all there for me.
• 1:34:32
  Speaker 2: It's all there for me. I don't have to announce
• 1:34:34
  Speaker 2: it all for everybody. It's not going anywhere. But if
• 1:34:37
  Speaker 2: I can orient myself into learning. I like making these
• 1:34:41
  Speaker 2: documentaries because I'm not a professional documentarian. But what's weird
• 1:34:45
  Speaker 2: about it is if I do that and I get
• 1:34:47
  Speaker 2: in this real kind of open space, and then I
• 1:34:50
  Speaker 2: come back to acting, that beginner's mind channel is open,
• 1:34:58
  Speaker 2: and I'm available to learn something from somebody else that
• 1:35:01
  Speaker 2: maybe I might because one of the things I thought
• 1:35:03
  Speaker 2: when I was young is I thought there was a
• 1:35:05
  Speaker 2: right way to be an actor, and I was obsessed
• 1:35:08
  Speaker 2: with somebody doing it wrong. This director is a fucking moron,
• 1:35:12
  Speaker 2: and he's ruining my work, you know. And then slowly
• 1:35:17
  Speaker 2: I really realized this is so obvious. There isn't a
• 1:35:20
  Speaker 2: right way to make art. There are successful ways and
• 1:35:24
  Speaker 2: unsuccessful ways. But I wanted everybody to be Peter Weir.
• 1:35:29
  Speaker 2: That's what I wanted. Peter Weir had made Dead Poets Society,
• 1:35:33
  Speaker 2: and that's what rehearsal was supposed to be, like, that's
• 1:35:36
  Speaker 2: what the set is supposed to be, like, That's that's
• 1:35:38
  Speaker 2: how you're supposed to talk to other people. I didn't
• 1:35:40
  Speaker 2: know my mentor was a card carrying, awesome human being,
• 1:35:44
  Speaker 2: and I was having unrealistic expectations about other people on
• 1:35:49
  Speaker 2: their path. They haven't they haven't done all that Peter's done.
• 1:35:51
  Speaker 2: They don't know it all, and I just it would
• 1:35:54
  Speaker 2: anger me that they weren't, you know. And then if
• 1:35:58
  Speaker 2: you can get in a kind of a more open mind,
• 1:36:01
  Speaker 2: then you can really listen to people and absorb where
• 1:36:04
  Speaker 2: they're at in their journey. And you're not going to
• 1:36:07
  Speaker 2: change them, you know, You're not this idea that you know,
• 1:36:10
  Speaker 2: especially in a film shoot three, you're not going to
• 1:36:12
  Speaker 2: change the way they think. You know. You've got to
• 1:36:15
  Speaker 2: try to do your thing, lead by example, you know,
• 1:36:20
  Speaker 2: and try to let them not negatively impact you. But
• 1:36:23
  Speaker 2: maybe you can be open and learn something from them.
• 1:36:25
  Speaker 1: And then that whole beginner's mindset is just immensely beneficial.
• 1:36:30
  Speaker 1: Like you're saying, how you carry it over to your acting.
• 1:36:33
  Speaker 1: I would recommend that with anybody who does anything, find
• 1:36:36
  Speaker 1: another thing that you're not good at at all and
• 1:36:39
  Speaker 1: get into that, because that will help you with the
• 1:36:41
  Speaker 1: thing that you're good at.
• 1:36:42
  Speaker 2: And heaven evenness, like I took, it happens so often
• 1:36:47
  Speaker 2: that it's funny. Like I take my son out to
• 1:36:49
  Speaker 2: teach them how to shoot right first skeip thing. You
• 1:36:52
  Speaker 2: just blast it right out of there. Second one, bless
• 1:36:54
  Speaker 2: it right out of there right. You know, you teach
• 1:36:56
  Speaker 2: somebody to shoot a bow or something first air, they fly,
• 1:37:00
  Speaker 2: then they don't have to target again. You know, you
• 1:37:03
  Speaker 2: start thinking too much, you know, hear I hear. I
• 1:37:06
  Speaker 2: don't know anything about golf, but I hear the same
• 1:37:07
  Speaker 2: thing as true with golf. Young people are often great actors.
• 1:37:11
  Speaker 2: It's adolescents in life that makes it harder to get
• 1:37:14
  Speaker 2: back to that childlike place, you know. And so I
• 1:37:19
  Speaker 2: think I've even been talking to my wife a lot
• 1:37:21
  Speaker 2: about it. I want to start trying to take piano lessons,
• 1:37:23
  Speaker 2: just to do something I've never done, because I know
• 1:37:26
  Speaker 2: it rattles my brain and makes my brain see things diff.
• 1:37:30
  Speaker 1: Take a new language on, learn how to play chess,
• 1:37:33
  Speaker 1: do something, Yeah, it's hugely beneficial to be a beginner.
• 1:37:37
  Speaker 1: I think a person that only does one thing, there's
• 1:37:39
  Speaker 1: something very valuable in that too. But do one thing,
• 1:37:42
  Speaker 1: Immerse yourself in that one thing, and do it the
• 1:37:44
  Speaker 1: best you can.
• 1:37:44
  Speaker 2: That's true, It's true.
• 1:37:46
  Speaker 1: You know the term kaisen, it's a Japanese term for
• 1:37:51
  Speaker 1: refining something over and over and over and over again
• 1:37:55
  Speaker 1: for decades until you absolutely have it perfected.
• 1:37:59
  Speaker 2: And I believe even that entirely. But I also believe
• 1:38:02
  Speaker 2: that to master a craft you have to apprentice three
• 1:38:06
  Speaker 2: or four that it's it's good for Like I, I'm
• 1:38:10
  Speaker 2: an actor and I'm gonna die an actor, and this
• 1:38:13
  Speaker 2: is what I'm gonna do. And I have met older
• 1:38:17
  Speaker 2: actors who are amazing, who I know I'm not as
• 1:38:20
  Speaker 2: good as. And it kind of thrills me. It it
• 1:38:25
  Speaker 2: thrills me. How don't There's little nuances of conversation that
• 1:38:30
  Speaker 2: I don't quite understand yet, but I know that they do,
• 1:38:32
  Speaker 2: and I know that they're right, and I want to
• 1:38:34
  Speaker 2: understand more deeply, and I just feel that I don't know,
• 1:38:41
  Speaker 2: I lost my train of thought about that. I don't know.
• 1:38:43
  Speaker 2: I just totally my computer to shut down. I forgot
• 1:38:46
  Speaker 2: what I was talking about.
• 1:38:46
  Speaker 1: It's okay, it's I think more people need. I think
• 1:38:51
  Speaker 1: the problem is when you're really good at something, you
• 1:38:53
  Speaker 1: find identity in it.
• 1:38:54
  Speaker 2: Oh. Oh, that's what I was saying. It's like, I
• 1:38:56
  Speaker 2: know I want to excel at this one craft. But
• 1:39:00
  Speaker 2: I know that when I direct something, when I write something,
• 1:39:04
  Speaker 2: if I make a graphic novel, a documentary, I'm learning
• 1:39:08
  Speaker 2: about things that are adjacent to my specialty. And by
• 1:39:13
  Speaker 2: doing that when I go when I go to set
• 1:39:15
  Speaker 2: and I'm talking to a writer, I know how hard
• 1:39:17
  Speaker 2: he worked on the script. I'm not gonna Willy Nelly
• 1:39:20
  Speaker 2: change his lines because I'm not in the mood, or
• 1:39:23
  Speaker 2: I don't like the way my hair looks or something
• 1:39:24
  Speaker 2: like that. I'm not going to do that. I have
• 1:39:26
  Speaker 2: respect for what he did, and because I have that respect,
• 1:39:32
  Speaker 2: I can offer him my thoughts and we can probably
• 1:39:36
  Speaker 2: get involved in a really mutually beneficial conversation. Because I've directed,
• 1:39:40
  Speaker 2: I don't look at some director and think, well, like
• 1:39:44
  Speaker 2: I did when I was younger, he's stopping me. I'm thinking,
• 1:39:46
  Speaker 2: I know this guy's sweat this. I know this guy
• 1:39:48
  Speaker 2: picked this location for a reason. I know this guy
• 1:39:50
  Speaker 2: is a tenuous relationship with a cinematographer. I know the
• 1:39:53
  Speaker 2: producers are breathing down his neck. I know he's got
• 1:39:55
  Speaker 2: a lot of headaches. I'm going to help him, and
• 1:39:57
  Speaker 2: I'm going to try to find an app you know
• 1:39:59
  Speaker 2: what I mean. So these ancillary I do want to
• 1:40:03
  Speaker 2: have a specialty. But I do think learning the piano
• 1:40:06
  Speaker 2: might help me be a better actor. Like I don't
• 1:40:08
  Speaker 2: know why, I don't know the logic behind me.
• 1:40:11
  Speaker 1: I think, in particular, in acting that would be true
• 1:40:14
  Speaker 1: because acting is you becoming someone else who's in life,
• 1:40:23
  Speaker 1: and life involves a lot of different aspects. There's a
• 1:40:26
  Speaker 1: lot of different things that go on in a human
• 1:40:29
  Speaker 1: being's mind. The more you can introduce to your mind,
• 1:40:33
  Speaker 1: the more that would help you become a variety of
• 1:40:36
  Speaker 1: different people that you're performing us.
• 1:40:38
  Speaker 2: See, I mean, wouldn't it be phenomenal? Be very weird?
• 1:40:41
  Speaker 2: But like, so, you and I've been talking, and I
• 1:40:44
  Speaker 2: would venture to say we're doing pretty well. Three quarters
• 1:40:47
  Speaker 2: of the time. We're completely immersed in what we're talking about.
• 1:40:52
  Speaker 2: And then my brain why my computer shut down? As
• 1:40:55
  Speaker 2: I start thinking about this actor that I love, Richard Easton,
• 1:40:57
  Speaker 2: and I start thinking about how I'm still not as
• 1:40:59
  Speaker 2: good as he is, and people he's not even famous, right,
• 1:41:01
  Speaker 2: And then I couldn't remember what I was gonna say. Right,
• 1:41:04
  Speaker 2: And you're talking to me about your kids or something
• 1:41:06
  Speaker 2: your there's no way your mind doesn't drift to something
• 1:41:08
  Speaker 2: going on in your life, and mine does too, right,
• 1:41:11
  Speaker 2: And and so that's what real life is like. And
• 1:41:15
  Speaker 2: the actor's job is to figure out the text and
• 1:41:18
  Speaker 2: the text to be so clear and in there that
• 1:41:21
  Speaker 2: then you can figure out all the other wavelengths. You know,
• 1:41:24
  Speaker 2: when you're watching somebody great, there's all these other wavelengths
• 1:41:27
  Speaker 2: that are happening. They have nothing that It's not that
• 1:41:30
  Speaker 2: they have nothing to do with the script, but it's
• 1:41:33
  Speaker 2: like it's like the difference between a sketch and an
• 1:41:35
  Speaker 2: oil painting. You know, the script is kind of a
• 1:41:38
  Speaker 2: beautiful sketch in the actor's job, director's job, production designs
• 1:41:42
  Speaker 2: that we're turning that into an oil painting. And so anyway,
• 1:41:47
  Speaker 2: I'm just saying, wouldn't it if I could put a
• 1:41:51
  Speaker 2: subtitle under everything we're really thinking while we're talking, how
• 1:41:54
  Speaker 2: different would it be? And how much more would I
• 1:41:56
  Speaker 2: learn about you? If I knew what you know? What
• 1:41:59
  Speaker 2: your guys are relationship is really like, does he get
• 1:42:01
  Speaker 2: on your nerves? Do you hate it? You know that
• 1:42:03
  Speaker 2: he wears a black cap? Do you wish you wear
• 1:42:05
  Speaker 2: the red one? Do you know you know? You know,
• 1:42:08
  Speaker 2: you know what I'm saying. I got to do so
• 1:42:10
  Speaker 2: much about when I'm in your space so much. I
• 1:42:12
  Speaker 2: don't know about what's going on today and what you
• 1:42:13
  Speaker 2: guys are doing later today, or how you cut the show,
• 1:42:16
  Speaker 2: or what's important to you about the show, or well.
• 1:42:18
  Speaker 1: I forget about things I'm talking about all the time
• 1:42:21
  Speaker 1: because I'm trying to lock into the other person's brain,
• 1:42:24
  Speaker 1: and sometimes I forget what I want to say because
• 1:42:27
  Speaker 1: I'm trying to, like I'm trying to think like you.
• 1:42:31
  Speaker 1: I'm trying to like completely be in the moment and
• 1:42:34
  Speaker 1: think like you. That's what I try to do when
• 1:42:37
  Speaker 1: i'm doing when I'm having a conversation with a person,
• 1:42:39
  Speaker 1: I try to be as completely locked in as possible,
• 1:42:43
  Speaker 1: so much so that sometimes I forget people's names that
• 1:42:46
  Speaker 1: I know really well. I forget all kinds of things
• 1:42:49
  Speaker 1: cool because I'm not thinking about anything else other than
• 1:42:53
  Speaker 1: what that person's thinking and saying and trying to like
• 1:42:56
  Speaker 1: decipher it and trying to like trying to, like, you know,
• 1:43:00
  Speaker 1: guide the conversation in some sort of an interesting way.
• 1:43:04
  Speaker 1: But I forget all kinds of things. I'll forget important
• 1:43:09
  Speaker 1: people's phone numbers, birthdays, I don't remember anything, like so
• 1:43:14
  Speaker 1: many times I'll ask Jamie. Of course, I'm like, who
• 1:43:16
  Speaker 1: is that fucking what? What is his fucking name? And
• 1:43:19
  Speaker 1: then I can't believe I can't remember. It's because I'm
• 1:43:21
  Speaker 1: not there. I'm lost in what this person is saying.
• 1:43:26
  Speaker 1: So I have to like sit down and open up
• 1:43:29
  Speaker 1: my files and go, oh, there's all the information again.
• 1:43:32
  Speaker 1: But I'm not there, so I can't do that. So
• 1:43:34
  Speaker 1: I gotta go. Let me go back to my desk
• 1:43:36
  Speaker 1: and I'll open up my files and now I have
• 1:43:38
  Speaker 1: my information. But when I'm talking to you, I'm not
• 1:43:40
  Speaker 1: at my desk.
• 1:43:41
  Speaker 2: That's what it's like for me to have a great role. Hm.
• 1:43:45
  Speaker 2: My brain disappears into that other psyche, and I can
• 1:43:52
  Speaker 2: kind of do some of the normal stuff of life,
• 1:43:55
  Speaker 2: driving my kids to school and do some things, but
• 1:43:59
  Speaker 2: this part of me is floating over here, imagining was
• 1:44:03
  Speaker 2: this the right way to how should I wear the jacket?
• 1:44:07
  Speaker 2: Would you drive a car? What kind of car? What
• 1:44:08
  Speaker 2: he drives, that the right car is that the right leg,
• 1:44:11
  Speaker 2: you know, and just my imagination. When it's really cooking,
• 1:44:16
  Speaker 2: it takes me away. My favorite things about it is
• 1:44:18
  Speaker 2: I don't think about my phone. I don't think about
• 1:44:21
  Speaker 2: the emails I didn't return. I didn't think about whether
• 1:44:24
  Speaker 2: I forgot so and So's birthday. For this period of time,
• 1:44:29
  Speaker 2: this job is so important to me that I'm willing
• 1:44:32
  Speaker 2: to say nothing else matters, but doing as good as
• 1:44:39
  Speaker 2: I can in this moment. Obviously, it's going to matter
• 1:44:41
  Speaker 2: again when I leave the dressing room. And when I
• 1:44:44
  Speaker 2: do this. Obviously I'm trying to be a good adult
• 1:44:46
  Speaker 2: and father and husband and citizen, all that stuff. But
• 1:44:51
  Speaker 2: it gives me a space where everything else can disappear
• 1:44:55
  Speaker 2: everything else. And that's what's so fun about a big,
• 1:45:00
  Speaker 2: a big ensemble, Like I don't people may like the
• 1:45:04
  Speaker 2: movie or not like the movie, but I did this
• 1:45:05
  Speaker 2: remake of Magnificent seven, right, And when you have a
• 1:45:08
  Speaker 2: big cast and everybody's in period costume, you know, and
• 1:45:12
  Speaker 2: everybody's on their horse and your jackets from eighteen seventy
• 1:45:17
  Speaker 2: six and their shirt is from you know, from the
• 1:45:21
  Speaker 2: Civil Wars something like that, and it's all real, and
• 1:45:23
  Speaker 2: there's these old taverns built, and there's dogs on the
• 1:45:27
  Speaker 2: set and horses peeing and you know what I mean.
• 1:45:30
  Speaker 2: It's all so real and my life is gone, yes,
• 1:45:35
  Speaker 2: and I'm just good night robo show. Yeah, and you know,
• 1:45:38
  Speaker 2: and I got to worry about how many bullets I
• 1:45:40
  Speaker 2: have left in my thing, and you know, and it's
• 1:45:43
  Speaker 2: it's a it's back to hypnosis and it's a wonderful relaxation.
• 1:45:48
  Speaker 2: And that's the strange thing about it is it's like,
• 1:45:51
  Speaker 2: you know, when you're a kid and you first look
• 1:45:54
  Speaker 2: at the stars of the ocean or something and you
• 1:45:57
  Speaker 2: feel powerfully your own insignificance. In your intellectual brain would
• 1:46:01
  Speaker 2: think that that would feel bad. Oh you're if somebody
• 1:46:04
  Speaker 2: told you, hey, you're insignificant, that feels bad. But when
• 1:46:07
  Speaker 2: you look at the stars, it feels great.
• 1:46:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:46:10
  Speaker 2: And it's it's the same feeling of like, why would
• 1:46:14
  Speaker 2: disappearing feel so good? I did when I was young,
• 1:46:19
  Speaker 2: I did this play with Steve's on Great Activity. If
• 1:46:21
  Speaker 2: you had Steve on your show, Oh he's a genius
• 1:46:24
  Speaker 2: and he's so funny, and we were doing a play
• 1:46:25
  Speaker 2: together and and I would say to him that tonight
• 1:46:31
  Speaker 2: show went really good? Do you think did you think
• 1:46:32
  Speaker 2: I went well? Yeah? I thought it went really well. Yeah.
• 1:46:35
  Speaker 2: And then the next time I come back, tonight sucked
• 1:46:38
  Speaker 2: and it sucks. We thought it went really well, you know,
• 1:46:41
  Speaker 2: and you always think it goes really well, he goes.
• 1:46:44
  Speaker 2: I never remember. And the truth is he's so zen,
• 1:46:52
  Speaker 2: he's so in the moment what you're talking about when
• 1:46:54
  Speaker 2: you do comedy or when you do your interviews, he
• 1:46:56
  Speaker 2: is so in he's so present that he honestly doesn't remember.
• 1:47:00
  Speaker 2: And that's the trick because he doesn't have a huge opinion. Yeah,
• 1:47:03
  Speaker 2: because the opinion gets in your way all the time.
• 1:47:06
  Speaker 1: Yes, it really can.
• 1:47:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:47:09
  Speaker 1: And I think the ultimate in the moment for a
• 1:47:12
  Speaker 1: person that doesn't have a craft or a thing is
• 1:47:15
  Speaker 1: staring at the stars because you realize you are a
• 1:47:18
  Speaker 1: part of everything, and you are in this infinite soup
• 1:47:22
  Speaker 1: of existence that all of your troubles in your it
• 1:47:27
  Speaker 1: seems so insignificant in comparison to the vastness of what's
• 1:47:32
  Speaker 1: in front.
• 1:47:33
  Speaker 2: Of you, and that lets your shoulders light it. Yeah,
• 1:47:36
  Speaker 2: and then you can handle what you can handle.
• 1:47:39
  Speaker 1: I've talked about this before, but I'll tell you when
• 1:47:42
  Speaker 1: I was younger. When my oldest daughter was I think
• 1:47:45
  Speaker 1: she was one five or six. We went to the
• 1:47:47
  Speaker 1: Kech Observatory in Hawaii, and I don't know if you
• 1:47:51
  Speaker 1: haven't been there. It's on the Hag Island, but they
• 1:47:54
  Speaker 1: told us it's like an hour and a half drive.
• 1:47:56
  Speaker 1: They told us. When you're driving up there go you're
• 1:48:00
  Speaker 1: you know, you're gonna go to the top and hopefully
• 1:48:02
  Speaker 1: there won't be any clouds, so you get a clear
• 1:48:05
  Speaker 1: vision of the sky. So as we're driving up, it's
• 1:48:08
  Speaker 1: all these fucking clouds. I'm like, Oh, this sucks. It's
• 1:48:11
  Speaker 1: gonna suck. We're driving all this We're not gonna see
• 1:48:13
  Speaker 1: any stars. We drive through the clouds because it's really high,
• 1:48:17
  Speaker 1: and you get up to the top and you're above
• 1:48:19
  Speaker 1: the clouds, and we got out of the car and
• 1:48:21
  Speaker 1: my fucking jaw dropped.
• 1:48:24
  Speaker 2: It was nuts.
• 1:48:25
  Speaker 1: It was the craziest image. And I've been there three
• 1:48:28
  Speaker 1: times since. Never recreated it. There's always been cloud cover
• 1:48:32
  Speaker 1: that's higher up. I just caught it the first time
• 1:48:34
  Speaker 1: I went there, at the absolute perfect It changed my life.
• 1:48:37
  Speaker 1: It changed my perspective on the universe itself, because it
• 1:48:42
  Speaker 1: felt like I was It felt psychedelic. It felt like
• 1:48:45
  Speaker 1: it was in a spaceship, like a convertible spaceship. And
• 1:48:49
  Speaker 1: I was looking through the windshield and we were flying
• 1:48:51
  Speaker 1: through the Cosmos, and there was an impossible amount of
• 1:48:54
  Speaker 1: stars in the sky. There wasn't a spot in the
• 1:48:56
  Speaker 1: sky that wasn't filled with stars. The Milky Way was
• 1:48:59
  Speaker 1: clean year is day. It was fucking bananas. That's what
• 1:49:03
  Speaker 1: it looked like.
• 1:49:04
  Speaker 2: You didn't feel like you were in a spaceship. You
• 1:49:07
  Speaker 2: are on one.
• 1:49:08
  Speaker 1: You're realized. Shit, yeah, yeah, look at that.
• 1:49:11
  Speaker 2: That's it.
• 1:49:12
  Speaker 1: That's well, that's what it kind of looks like. But
• 1:49:15
  Speaker 1: it's actually even more profound than you know, see that
• 1:49:17
  Speaker 1: the observatory.
• 1:49:18
  Speaker 2: You knew when I was telling you about White Thing
• 1:49:20
  Speaker 2: my experience with so I was out there. This is
• 1:49:24
  Speaker 2: nineteen eighty nine, right, I mean Haines, Alaska. It's about
• 1:49:27
  Speaker 2: one hundred miles north of Juno. There's no internet. The
• 1:49:31
  Speaker 2: mail comes once a week on Monday. If it's bad weather,
• 1:49:34
  Speaker 2: the mail doesn't come till the next week. Right, I'm
• 1:49:37
  Speaker 2: there for six months. I'm nineteen years old. There's nobody
• 1:49:43
  Speaker 2: to talk to. I mean, there's no close star. The
• 1:49:46
  Speaker 2: only nineteen year old there listen is the guy who
• 1:49:49
  Speaker 2: is the production you know, the production manager or whatever.
• 1:49:53
  Speaker 2: He was hyper aa right, and there's one bar in
• 1:49:58
  Speaker 2: town and he told the man if I was seen
• 1:50:01
  Speaker 2: in there, he would shut it down. There was nowhere
• 1:50:05
  Speaker 2: else to go. I was like, I told the guy,
• 1:50:08
  Speaker 2: I said, look, I'm not gonna drink. I got it.
• 1:50:10
  Speaker 2: Like the stunt men are hanging in there, all the
• 1:50:11
  Speaker 2: other actors are hanging out in there, and I had
• 1:50:14
  Speaker 2: nothing to do because I couldn't go in the one
• 1:50:17
  Speaker 2: freakin' bar, right. And for the first three months I
• 1:50:21
  Speaker 2: was there was always dark, right, and then the second
• 1:50:23
  Speaker 2: three months was always light and it was just But anyway,
• 1:50:27
  Speaker 2: the point is I went on this long walk and
• 1:50:30
  Speaker 2: I saw the Roa Borealis by myself, you know, and
• 1:50:34
  Speaker 2: I'd see it night after night. So I just see
• 1:50:37
  Speaker 2: the sky rippling and it was like, what you're talking about?
• 1:50:41
  Speaker 2: It was like it actually made me laugh. Wow, you know,
• 1:50:46
  Speaker 2: it just seemed it was funny. It was like the
• 1:50:48
  Speaker 2: Cosmos was teasing me, going, oh, you think all this
• 1:50:52
  Speaker 2: is real?
• 1:50:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah?
• 1:50:53
  Speaker 2: I was like, I do. I do think it matters
• 1:50:55
  Speaker 2: whether White Fighting is a good movie. And then I
• 1:50:57
  Speaker 2: just giggle, you know, and I was like, oh, you
• 1:51:00
  Speaker 2: have no idea what's going on? And it was it
• 1:51:04
  Speaker 2: was like, you're talking. It's something you don't unsee.
• 1:51:07
  Speaker 1: Yes, you know.
• 1:51:08
  Speaker 2: I still have over my desk, I have a little
• 1:51:10
  Speaker 2: postcard from Haines, Alaska, and it still comes to me
• 1:51:13
  Speaker 2: in my dreams all the time. I'm back there.
• 1:51:16
  Speaker 1: Wow. I think we're being robbed at that because of cities.
• 1:51:21
  Speaker 1: Light pollution has robbed us of what I think all
• 1:51:24
  Speaker 1: of our ancestors always inherently observed when nighttime came around,
• 1:51:29
  Speaker 1: everybody realized, well, you're you're a part of the infinite cosmos,
• 1:51:32
  Speaker 1: and there's magic to the universe, which is why there
• 1:51:36
  Speaker 1: were so many people, you know, hundreds of not thousands
• 1:51:40
  Speaker 1: of years ago that had these whimsical tales and these
• 1:51:45
  Speaker 1: ideas of the importance of life and existence when they're
• 1:51:48
  Speaker 1: in the most brutal moments of history. They're in the
• 1:51:51
  Speaker 1: most brutal moments of life, life or death, hunter gatherers,
• 1:51:56
  Speaker 1: warring tribes. But yet at night you're present with this
• 1:52:01
  Speaker 1: impossible majesty of the cosmos above your head every night.
• 1:52:06
  Speaker 1: Now today we have fucking social media. This is your sun,
• 1:52:10
  Speaker 1: this is your star. You're staring at a stupid fucking screen,
• 1:52:13
  Speaker 1: and when you look up, you just see nothing but blackness.
• 1:52:15
  Speaker 1: Because there's all these cities skyscrapers, it's blinded out. The
• 1:52:21
  Speaker 1: one thing that is like one of the most important
• 1:52:24
  Speaker 1: humil humbling like grounding experiences, appearing at the cosmos.
• 1:52:30
  Speaker 2: It's still weird. It's so hard to be in a
• 1:52:31
  Speaker 2: bad mood when you're looking at the stars. It's so
• 1:52:34
  Speaker 2: hard to be in a bad mood when you're riding
• 1:52:36
  Speaker 2: a bicycle and you feel the wind and it's Funny's
• 1:52:39
  Speaker 2: such a simple little thing, stupid little invention, this bicycle.
• 1:52:42
  Speaker 2: But you get in and you're right around. It's very
• 1:52:44
  Speaker 2: hard to stay in a bad mood if you spend
• 1:52:46
  Speaker 2: two hours on a bicycle. Yeah, And there's so many
• 1:52:49
  Speaker 2: things like that that we rob ourselves of, you know.
• 1:52:52
  Speaker 2: I don't know even like I find when I'm in
• 1:52:56
  Speaker 2: nature exercise, when I run out side and I'm running
• 1:53:01
  Speaker 2: through the trees and I see a hawk and I
• 1:53:04
  Speaker 2: see the wind blowing through, and I pass a farm
• 1:53:06
  Speaker 2: with sheep, and I it's like I come back from
• 1:53:09
  Speaker 2: a long run high and I feel like I like myself,
• 1:53:14
  Speaker 2: you know. In the city, I go to the gym,
• 1:53:18
  Speaker 2: and I got on one thing, highlights of all my
• 1:53:22
  Speaker 2: sports teams that I love, and they're blinking up and down.
• 1:53:24
  Speaker 2: And then I got the world is ending on all
• 1:53:26
  Speaker 2: the news channels, blinking up and down. And I got
• 1:53:29
  Speaker 2: guys who are in better shape than me walking by,
• 1:53:31
  Speaker 2: and girls who are super hot walking by. Is that
• 1:53:34
  Speaker 2: I'm trying not to look at and be a good person.
• 1:53:36
  Speaker 2: And I walk out of the damn gym and I
• 1:53:38
  Speaker 2: hate myself, you know what I mean. I mean, I've
• 1:53:41
  Speaker 2: got some exercise, but it wasn't I long for the
• 1:53:44
  Speaker 2: country and like, But anyway.
• 1:53:46
  Speaker 1: It's certainly a different experience. Yeah, doing it outside?
• 1:53:50
  Speaker 2: Is that too much information?
• 1:53:51
  Speaker 1: That's us, that's me, that's everybody, and you know. And
• 1:53:55
  Speaker 1: the thing is like the gym wants to keep you
• 1:53:58
  Speaker 1: occupied because then you'll show up more often. It won't
• 1:54:01
  Speaker 1: be incredibly boring if you go to a dank dungeon
• 1:54:03
  Speaker 1: of a gym with nothing on the walls other than
• 1:54:06
  Speaker 1: a small mirror that's covered with other people's spit, you know.
• 1:54:09
  Speaker 2: And that's what we all liked in Rocky when you
• 1:54:11
  Speaker 2: like go goes out, especially Rocky four. That's what I'm thinking,
• 1:54:17
  Speaker 2: that's the one I'm thinking is freezing out and it's
• 1:54:19
  Speaker 2: just him and.
• 1:54:19
  Speaker 1: It's carrying the log. Yeah, it's hilarious. Yeah, well, we
• 1:54:25
  Speaker 1: like the idea when and I was going to bring
• 1:54:27
  Speaker 1: that up earlier when you were talking about immersing yourself
• 1:54:29
  Speaker 1: in a role and preparing for a thing. Is one
• 1:54:32
  Speaker 1: of the more romantic things to me about fighting when
• 1:54:37
  Speaker 1: when I know that, like when like this past weekend
• 1:54:39
  Speaker 1: there was a big UFC, when a fighter goes into
• 1:54:42
  Speaker 1: a camp, they go off somewhere, they leave their family behind,
• 1:54:46
  Speaker 1: off and for like two months at a time, and
• 1:54:49
  Speaker 1: they just completely immerse themselves in preparation for this one
• 1:54:54
  Speaker 1: thing that's going to happen. And every little thing that
• 1:54:58
  Speaker 1: distracts you robs you away from the potential of that
• 1:55:03
  Speaker 1: one possible majestic performance, that one career defining performance which
• 1:55:09
  Speaker 1: they're all chasing after. And for a championship level fighter,
• 1:55:13
  Speaker 1: it's like the immense pressure and then this thing this,
• 1:55:21
  Speaker 1: well you call it romantic because it is kind of romantic,
• 1:55:25
  Speaker 1: this romantic task.
• 1:55:28
  Speaker 2: Oh, it's dedication to excellence, its full dedication, full complete dedication.
• 1:55:34
  Speaker 2: The way that you're even talking about trying to do
• 1:55:35
  Speaker 2: your interviews are trying to do your comedy. You're trying
• 1:55:37
  Speaker 2: to be insane, but to have something. So I mean
• 1:55:40
  Speaker 2: I envy that when I read about fighters and the dedication,
• 1:55:44
  Speaker 2: I really kind of loan for that experience, that idea
• 1:55:47
  Speaker 2: of going away. And I think there's something about I've
• 1:55:52
  Speaker 2: always I don't know if you think this, but whenever
• 1:55:54
  Speaker 2: I pass by a monastery, the conventers and these people
• 1:56:00
  Speaker 2: who are dedicated to their spiritual calling so completely that
• 1:56:04
  Speaker 2: they've isolated out all the noise of life, I find
• 1:56:08
  Speaker 2: I'm like, I'm really glad they exist. I'm glad in
• 1:56:11
  Speaker 2: the same way I feel about fighters. I feel like,
• 1:56:13
  Speaker 2: I mean, with the fighters, I really envy it because
• 1:56:15
  Speaker 2: we all would like to test ourselves. How how much
• 1:56:20
  Speaker 2: could I dedicate myself? How could I could I go
• 1:56:24
  Speaker 2: to the next level? How far can I go? And
• 1:56:27
  Speaker 2: I think that, oh, just singularity of focus. It feels
• 1:56:34
  Speaker 2: really good, And there is something I think. I love
• 1:56:38
  Speaker 2: stories about fighters and for just that, just and and
• 1:56:41
  Speaker 2: the fact that it all rests on these x amount
• 1:56:44
  Speaker 2: of minutes and chaos and just what was it.
• 1:56:48
  Speaker 1: Like watching no fighting? Terrifying? Yeah?
• 1:56:54
  Speaker 2: Did you ever would you ever get to a place
• 1:56:56
  Speaker 2: I've always wanted. Would you ever get to the place
• 1:56:58
  Speaker 2: where you were walking into the ring and you weren't aFrame?
• 1:57:00
  Speaker 1: No, If I did, I didn't perform well. There was
• 1:57:03
  Speaker 1: a few times where I was overconfident and I didn't
• 1:57:05
  Speaker 1: perform well because I tricked myself in not being scared,
• 1:57:09
  Speaker 1: so because I wasn't scared, because I didn't like being nervous.
• 1:57:11
  Speaker 1: So I tricked myself into thinking I'm so good, I
• 1:57:14
  Speaker 1: don't have to be nervous, and that I'd fought so
• 1:57:16
  Speaker 1: many times, Like the problem is complacency. So if I
• 1:57:20
  Speaker 1: probably when I was competing, I probably had somewhere in
• 1:57:26
  Speaker 1: the neighbor of one hundred fights in martial arts, and
• 1:57:29
  Speaker 1: so I did nothing about that. From age fifteen to
• 1:57:33
  Speaker 1: twenty one, traveled around the country, and there was times
• 1:57:37
  Speaker 1: where I did it so much that I was not nervous,
• 1:57:40
  Speaker 1: and then I would go there and I wouldn't fight well,
• 1:57:42
  Speaker 1: and then I would go why I missed opportunities? Even
• 1:57:46
  Speaker 1: if I won, I was like hypercritical. Even if I won,
• 1:57:49
  Speaker 1: I just didn't like I got hit when I shouldn't
• 1:57:51
  Speaker 1: have got hit, Like something was off. I didn't perform
• 1:57:53
  Speaker 1: that well, And I realized somewhere along the line. I
• 1:57:56
  Speaker 1: think right around was like probably nineteen or twenty when
• 1:57:59
  Speaker 1: I really started to figure it out. I was like, Oh,
• 1:58:00
  Speaker 1: you have to be scared that thing that you don't like,
• 1:58:04
  Speaker 1: that's critical. It's critical to your performance because he keeps
• 1:58:07
  Speaker 1: you on edge. You have to be nervous, you have
• 1:58:09
  Speaker 1: to be Mike Tyson talked about it. There's a fantastic
• 1:58:12
  Speaker 1: video of Mike Tyson from his documentary where he's talking
• 1:58:16
  Speaker 1: about his mindset leading to him getting into the ring,
• 1:58:21
  Speaker 1: and that you know, he talks about, see if you
• 1:58:25
  Speaker 1: can find that, Jamie. It's fucking excellent because this was
• 1:58:29
  Speaker 1: Mike Tyson when he was Mike Tyson, when he was
• 1:58:31
  Speaker 1: the most terrifying heavyweight boxer that ever walked the face
• 1:58:35
  Speaker 1: of the earth. There was a period of time over
• 1:58:37
  Speaker 1: like two or three years where I don't think anybody
• 1:58:39
  Speaker 1: has ever come close to Mike Tyson.
• 1:58:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he was just supreme.
• 1:58:46
  Speaker 1: He was so good and so different than anybody before him.
• 1:58:50
  Speaker 1: But it was also his mindset. He's a great scholar
• 1:58:53
  Speaker 1: of history. You know. I had a fantastic conversation with
• 1:58:56
  Speaker 1: him about Genghis Khan, and when we started talking about it,
• 1:58:59
  Speaker 1: he knew Ganis Khan's real name. His real name is Temigen.
• 1:59:02
  Speaker 1: He knew his history.
• 1:59:03
  Speaker 2: That you know that such an interesting person.
• 1:59:06
  Speaker 1: He knew that Genghis Khan's mother had been kidnapped by
• 1:59:11
  Speaker 1: on her wedding day, been kidnapped by a rival man
• 1:59:14
  Speaker 1: and taken away and impregnated it. And the man that
• 1:59:16
  Speaker 1: she was supposed to marry she never saw again. And
• 1:59:19
  Speaker 1: then that Ginghis Khan was born with a blood clot
• 1:59:22
  Speaker 1: in his hand. He was holding on to a blood
• 1:59:25
  Speaker 1: clot as he was a young boy, and it was
• 1:59:28
  Speaker 1: like a sign that he was going to be a
• 1:59:30
  Speaker 1: great conquer and a warrior. But listen, listen to this.
• 1:59:34
  Speaker 3: I might have supreme confidence, and I'm scared to death.
• 1:59:37
  Speaker 3: I'm totally afraid. I'm afraid of every name. I'm afraid
• 1:59:39
  Speaker 3: of blue, and I'm afraid of being humiliated. Close I
• 1:59:42
  Speaker 3: get to the ring, more confident I get close. I'm
• 1:59:44
  Speaker 3: more confident. I get all during my train, and I've
• 1:59:47
  Speaker 3: been afraid of this man's close. As I get to
• 1:59:49
  Speaker 3: the ring, I'm more confident. Once I'm in the ring,
• 1:59:51
  Speaker 3: I'm a god. No one could beat me.
• 1:59:56
  Speaker 1: That's an abbreviated version of it. It's different in the
• 1:59:59
  Speaker 1: in the film, it's like a little bit more drawn out.
• 2:00:01
  Speaker 1: Somebody edited that down for Instagram. But it's this thing
• 2:00:05
  Speaker 1: where you would think, how could that guy be afraid?
• 2:00:08
  Speaker 1: How's he afraid? He's Mike Tyson and this was Mike
• 2:00:11
  Speaker 1: Tison in his prime. But you have to be afraid.
• 2:00:14
  Speaker 1: You've got to be nervous. If you're not nervous, you're
• 2:00:16
  Speaker 1: not going to perform. Well.
• 2:00:17
  Speaker 2: Well, it makes me think about earlier in our conversation
• 2:00:19
  Speaker 2: when I was talking about, oh, you know, when I
• 2:00:23
  Speaker 2: think about when I was young and I would be
• 2:00:25
  Speaker 2: really nervous and pretending I wasn't nervous, and that was
• 2:00:27
  Speaker 2: the problem, and that now I said to you, I
• 2:00:31
  Speaker 2: still experienced it. I just know what to do. Remember
• 2:00:34
  Speaker 2: like that we're talking like that. What I was what
• 2:00:37
  Speaker 2: I know what to do is not to pretend that
• 2:00:39
  Speaker 2: I'm not nervous, right, That's It's as simple as that.
• 2:00:43
  Speaker 2: When when he's singing I'm afraid, that's very powerful. It's
• 2:00:48
  Speaker 2: kind of the same, a different spin on when I'm
• 2:00:50
  Speaker 2: saying about it. It's okay to say I don't know,
• 2:00:53
  Speaker 2: you know, I am afraid, And there's there's a great
• 2:00:58
  Speaker 2: Sarah Bernhardt's story about this young actress comes up to
• 2:01:02
  Speaker 2: Sarah Bernhardt. She's this great actress from the previous you know,
• 2:01:06
  Speaker 2: a long time ago. But this before Sarah Bernhard was
• 2:01:09
  Speaker 2: about to go on stage, this young actress asked her
• 2:01:11
  Speaker 2: to sign her program, Sarah Bernhard to get it, and
• 2:01:14
  Speaker 2: her hands were shaking, and this young actress said, why
• 2:01:17
  Speaker 2: are your hands shaking, I'm nervous. And the young person said,
• 2:01:22
  Speaker 2: I'm never nervous when I act, Sarah Bernhard. When you
• 2:01:25
  Speaker 2: know what you're doing, you will be And it's a
• 2:01:30
  Speaker 2: part of like what you're talking about with your fighting,
• 2:01:33
  Speaker 2: knowing that there's nothing wrong with anxiety and with nerves.
• 2:01:40
  Speaker 2: They can be your friend. They are there. They are
• 2:01:43
  Speaker 2: here to warn you, prepare you, make you train a
• 2:01:45
  Speaker 2: little harder, make you think a little sharper, treating it
• 2:01:49
  Speaker 2: like I'm embarrassed. I'm ashamed of being nervous. You know.
• 2:01:53
  Speaker 2: Bill Russell apparently would like be sick to stomach before
• 2:01:57
  Speaker 2: every game. This is the most winning basketball player in history.
• 2:01:59
  Speaker 2: He was still and that's why he want so much.
• 2:02:02
  Speaker 2: You know, you have to care, you have to care
• 2:02:05
  Speaker 2: to hear. And then, strangely, what that Tyson clip gets
• 2:02:09
  Speaker 2: it if you can say that the closer you get
• 2:02:13
  Speaker 2: to game moment, now you're not pretending and you realize, Oh,
• 2:02:18
  Speaker 2: for me, it's it's just a scene, it's just a play.
• 2:02:21
  Speaker 2: It's just I can handle it. This is you remember that
• 2:02:25
  Speaker 2: Jaguar Parr and Paul and Apocalypto when he has that
• 2:02:28
  Speaker 2: moment he's running tough the woods and he's so afraid
• 2:02:30
  Speaker 2: and he realizes this is my forest. You know, He's like,
• 2:02:33
  Speaker 2: I don't I don't have to be afraid in my forest.
• 2:02:37
  Speaker 2: You know, I'll fight these guys. I don't want to
• 2:02:39
  Speaker 2: stop running. It's a great moment in that movie, and
• 2:02:42
  Speaker 2: I feel that way when before him doing something. This
• 2:02:46
  Speaker 2: last movie I did Blue Moon, really really challenging part.
• 2:02:50
  Speaker 2: I had so much confidence when we were talking about
• 2:02:53
  Speaker 2: making the movie. Then all of a sudden it was
• 2:02:55
  Speaker 2: greenlit and so but like when I flew to the
• 2:02:58
  Speaker 2: location and I said all this set, I was like, oh,
• 2:03:01
  Speaker 2: it was the weekend before we started. I got so nervous.
• 2:03:05
  Speaker 2: I got sick.
• 2:03:08
  Speaker 1: You know.
• 2:03:08
  Speaker 2: I woke up in the middle of night, just in
• 2:03:09
  Speaker 2: pools of sweat, and my body was just like going, Ethan,
• 2:03:17
  Speaker 2: this is gonna are you ready, Are you ready? You know?
• 2:03:20
  Speaker 2: And I would wake up. I would had to get
• 2:03:22
  Speaker 2: up so early to go to work. I'd wake up
• 2:03:23
  Speaker 2: an hour and a half before I was supposed Like,
• 2:03:27
  Speaker 2: I gotta go over these lines again. I gotta go
• 2:03:28
  Speaker 2: over this. How is this character walking? What is he doing?
• 2:03:30
  Speaker 2: What is he saying? Is this part ready? Is this
• 2:03:33
  Speaker 2: thing ready? Do they know what they're doing on that shot? Cigars?
• 2:03:36
  Speaker 1: Ready?
• 2:03:37
  Speaker 2: All the things? What are the things that are going
• 2:03:38
  Speaker 2: to be that screw it today?
• 2:03:39
  Speaker 1: Up?
• 2:03:39
  Speaker 2: I guess how much can I see the day so
• 2:03:43
  Speaker 2: that none of these things that might screw it up
• 2:03:45
  Speaker 2: are gonna screw it up? And so I kind of
• 2:03:47
  Speaker 2: know what he means when it comes to you've passed
• 2:03:51
  Speaker 2: through the fire. So when it comes to fighting, well,
• 2:03:53
  Speaker 2: he's either gonna lose, win or lose. It's gonna be okay.
• 2:03:55
  Speaker 2: But you know, there's something powerful anxiety can be a
• 2:04:01
  Speaker 2: great friend.
• 2:04:02
  Speaker 1: His mentor custom model, who was also a hypnotist. Yes,
• 2:04:08
  Speaker 1: he was a psychologist.
• 2:04:09
  Speaker 2: I know.
• 2:04:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he's a completely fascinating guy. He started hypnotizing Mike
• 2:04:14
  Speaker 1: when he was thirteen. One of the things that he
• 2:04:17
  Speaker 1: told Mike he said, fear is like a fire. It
• 2:04:21
  Speaker 1: can cook your food, or it can burn your house down.
• 2:04:24
  Speaker 1: It depends on how you control it.
• 2:04:26
  Speaker 2: I feel the same way about money, feel the same
• 2:04:29
  Speaker 2: way about ego. It can be the fuel of a
• 2:04:33
  Speaker 2: healthy life, but it has to be has to be
• 2:04:38
  Speaker 2: managed really well. And it's sadly daily, yeah, daily. It's
• 2:04:44
  Speaker 2: not like you. I'm sure we're both old enough to know.
• 2:04:46
  Speaker 2: It's not like you have some breakthrough when you're thirty three.
• 2:04:48
  Speaker 2: I've had breakthroughs. I feel like, Oh, I get it,
• 2:04:50
  Speaker 2: I get it, I get it. It's gone. You know,
• 2:04:55
  Speaker 2: it happens to you over and over again. And I
• 2:04:59
  Speaker 2: that's life if.
• 2:05:00
  Speaker 1: I think, yes, that is life. Yeah, and that's that's
• 2:05:03
  Speaker 1: great for young people to hear because they think that
• 2:05:05
  Speaker 1: there's gonna come a point in time where they made it,
• 2:05:08
  Speaker 1: where there's no fear. And I'm telling I'm here to
• 2:05:10
  Speaker 1: tell you you don't want that. You don't want it.
• 2:05:13
  Speaker 1: It's never gonna come, and you don't come. You don't
• 2:05:15
  Speaker 1: want it. It's it'll rob you of the exciting part
• 2:05:18
  Speaker 1: of life.
• 2:05:19
  Speaker 2: You ever hear that Jim Carrey bit always makes you laugh.
• 2:05:21
  Speaker 2: He's like he wins the Golden Globe and he goes
• 2:05:23
  Speaker 2: to bed at night, because gosh, I'm a Golden Globe winner.
• 2:05:28
  Speaker 2: What if I could be a two time Golden Globe winner?
• 2:05:32
  Speaker 2: What if I could be a three? You know, the
• 2:05:33
  Speaker 2: brain brain always wants more, always, it's just it can't stop.
• 2:05:37
  Speaker 1: That's why billionaires still work. Yeah, yeah, yeah, why they're
• 2:05:41
  Speaker 1: so miserable because it's just chasing some numbers. Chasing numbers.
• 2:05:46
  Speaker 2: One of the thing about in the rooms that I've
• 2:05:48
  Speaker 2: been in with a lot of money compared to the
• 2:05:53
  Speaker 2: rooms I've been in where there isn't a lot of money,
• 2:05:55
  Speaker 2: If you compare the.
• 2:05:56
  Speaker 1: Laughter, right, yeah, it's a no context. Well there's so
• 2:06:01
  Speaker 1: much pressure involved in that kind of so why would
• 2:06:04
  Speaker 1: you want a house with no laughter? You know, I
• 2:06:08
  Speaker 1: don't think they have options at that point. I think
• 2:06:10
  Speaker 1: they're so locked into what they.
• 2:06:11
  Speaker 2: Do and it gets so competitive they get I've seen
• 2:06:15
  Speaker 2: guys like that who get so happy about a deal
• 2:06:18
  Speaker 2: gone right. That's what it's fascinating to me. I mean,
• 2:06:22
  Speaker 2: it's like, wow, I didn't, I didn't, But because because
• 2:06:28
  Speaker 2: thean verse is true, if that makes you so happy,
• 2:06:31
  Speaker 2: what happens if you lose that right million to bucks
• 2:06:34
  Speaker 2: or whatever twenty minutes and it makes you happy?
• 2:06:36
  Speaker 1: For a brief amount of time, because the reality is,
• 2:06:39
  Speaker 1: once you're wealthy, everything else is My friend Brian says
• 2:06:42
  Speaker 1: something to me a long time agoes, Oh, the only
• 2:06:44
  Speaker 1: amount of money you want is where you can go
• 2:06:45
  Speaker 1: to a restaurant and not worry what the bill costs.
• 2:06:48
  Speaker 1: Everything else is bullshit.
• 2:06:50
  Speaker 2: Well I liken it too. What happens if you get
• 2:06:53
  Speaker 2: an a fender bender? You know, I don't want to
• 2:06:55
  Speaker 2: get an a fender bender and have a lot of trouble,
• 2:06:58
  Speaker 2: right Like I wanted that to taken care of. You don't.
• 2:07:02
  Speaker 2: You don't want to not be able to pay your
• 2:07:03
  Speaker 2: rent because you're a a fender bender. You don't want
• 2:07:05
  Speaker 2: your kid not to get their medics because you've got
• 2:07:06
  Speaker 2: a fender bender, you know, like you like you need
• 2:07:09
  Speaker 2: to have room, a little padding to like I've never
• 2:07:15
  Speaker 2: there's no expense vacation. An expensive vacation with my kids
• 2:07:21
  Speaker 2: is not better than any vacation with my.
• 2:07:24
  Speaker 1: Kids, right right, right right?
• 2:07:27
  Speaker 2: Romant same thing. Yeah, you know you can spend a
• 2:07:30
  Speaker 2: fortune on a romantic weekend. It's not as great as
• 2:07:33
  Speaker 2: it is. Get stuck in a car. I was a
• 2:07:35
  Speaker 2: blizzard out and you listen to a great record and
• 2:07:38
  Speaker 2: she looks beautiful and says something funny, and you both
• 2:07:41
  Speaker 2: left that's you can't buy that, and and but there's
• 2:07:47
  Speaker 2: this feeling like you could.
• 2:07:49
  Speaker 1: Well, our society puts someone's emphasis on ultimate success, like
• 2:07:53
  Speaker 1: who's the richest man in the world, Well, do you
• 2:07:56
  Speaker 1: think the richest man of the world is happier than
• 2:07:59
  Speaker 1: the third richest man in the world. They're all rich
• 2:08:02
  Speaker 1: as fuck, like everything is available to them. It's all
• 2:08:05
  Speaker 1: nonsense after that, after a certain point, like what are
• 2:08:08
  Speaker 1: you doing? Why are you still working? Why are you
• 2:08:10
  Speaker 1: still chasing zeros and ones? Like what is the point?
• 2:08:14
  Speaker 1: What are you chasing me?
• 2:08:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah?
• 2:08:17
  Speaker 1: I don't. I don't think I'm chasing anything. I try
• 2:08:20
  Speaker 1: not to be. I just enjoy what I do.
• 2:08:22
  Speaker 2: I try to I don't relate to it, because that's
• 2:08:24
  Speaker 2: that's what led me the questions, like I'm like, what
• 2:08:27
  Speaker 2: am I chasing? You know what I'm chasing what I
• 2:08:32
  Speaker 2: said earlier, like I the last thing I shot, we
• 2:08:38
  Speaker 2: had a couple of moments of grace, you know, just weird,
• 2:08:42
  Speaker 2: like I can tell the crews losing their lunch and
• 2:08:45
  Speaker 2: everybody's so happy with the take that we got, and
• 2:08:48
  Speaker 2: it's kind of moving and oh it was perfect and
• 2:08:50
  Speaker 2: the light came to the window at the right time,
• 2:08:52
  Speaker 2: and then Peter Dinklish said this hysterical thing and he
• 2:08:55
  Speaker 2: wasn't supposed to say it, but it worked out perfect
• 2:08:57
  Speaker 2: because then the other actress then she responded that way,
• 2:09:00
  Speaker 2: and then my hat fell off and everybody's and it's
• 2:09:03
  Speaker 2: just it's high and I drive home and I want
• 2:09:07
  Speaker 2: to tell everybody and I can't wait for the world.
• 2:09:08
  Speaker 1: To see it.
• 2:09:09
  Speaker 2: You know, I am chasing that, like could that happen again? Yeah,
• 2:09:14
  Speaker 2: you know, but it's not something I control. It's not
• 2:09:17
  Speaker 2: something that it's a feeling I'm chasing.
• 2:09:21
  Speaker 1: But it's a tangible thing. It's not status or money.
• 2:09:24
  Speaker 1: It's you're chasing. You're doing, you know, for lack of
• 2:09:28
  Speaker 1: a better word, art, you know, and art has a
• 2:09:32
  Speaker 1: sort of a pretentious air to it a lot of people,
• 2:09:35
  Speaker 1: you know, there's there's certain words that have been sort
• 2:09:37
  Speaker 1: of co opted. But the art of creation.
• 2:09:42
  Speaker 2: You doing everything you would never I mean, I know,
• 2:09:45
  Speaker 2: you're exactly right. And it happens to me all the time,
• 2:09:47
  Speaker 2: and it bothers me that what what people think is
• 2:09:49
  Speaker 2: pretentious and what people if I say to you, you know,
• 2:09:51
  Speaker 2: I really want to make a hundred million dollars. Nobody
• 2:09:53
  Speaker 2: says unpretentious? Right If I say, you know, I really
• 2:09:58
  Speaker 2: would like to make something, to make something beautiful, it
• 2:10:01
  Speaker 2: really moves people. What a pretentious ass?
• 2:10:03
  Speaker 1: Right now?
• 2:10:04
  Speaker 2: Why is it?
• 2:10:04
  Speaker 1: What I was going to say with you, it's sincerity
• 2:10:07
  Speaker 1: because some people say that and they don't mean it.
• 2:10:10
  Speaker 1: And that's most of the people that say that.
• 2:10:12
  Speaker 2: And that's true. But what I was going to say
• 2:10:14
  Speaker 2: is like, if you're you, say, fifteen fourteen, your daughter,
• 2:10:18
  Speaker 2: your youngest fifteen, if you came home today and she
• 2:10:22
  Speaker 2: had made this crazy collage and it was combining pictures
• 2:10:27
  Speaker 2: of our friends from high school and this beautiful watercolor
• 2:10:30
  Speaker 2: that she did around it, and she sprinkled glue on
• 2:10:32
  Speaker 2: it and dropped sparkles on it and put it in
• 2:10:35
  Speaker 2: a weird wood frame that her mother had given her
• 2:10:38
  Speaker 2: that she'd like, and she said, isn't it beautiful? Dead
• 2:10:41
  Speaker 2: you would you ever say that's pretentious? Of course not?
• 2:10:47
  Speaker 2: But the goal I've when somebody says the word art
• 2:10:50
  Speaker 2: to me, I don't hear pretentious. I hear the solar system.
• 2:10:55
  Speaker 2: I hear like human creativity inside of us, man, it
• 2:10:59
  Speaker 2: is inside me and it's inside you. And when I
• 2:11:02
  Speaker 2: see a great movie, or when I hear Jimmy Hendrix
• 2:11:06
  Speaker 2: rip a killer solo, then my whole body vibrates. Oh hey,
• 2:11:10
  Speaker 2: we're alive. Yes, you know, when Johnny Cash comes out
• 2:11:13
  Speaker 2: with a sound you've never heard before, when it's a
• 2:11:15
  Speaker 2: great rap song, You're like, I got to hear that again.
• 2:11:18
  Speaker 2: I feel my heart beat with that. That's art. It's
• 2:11:21
  Speaker 2: not pretentious, it's it's real. And so I feel that
• 2:11:27
  Speaker 2: way very strongly, and that makes me want to go
• 2:11:29
  Speaker 2: to set, and that makes me not care whether the
• 2:11:32
  Speaker 2: movie makes a billion dollars it makes two cents. There's
• 2:11:35
  Speaker 2: a great one of the great old English actor, Paul Schofield.
• 2:11:39
  Speaker 2: I'm gonna destroy this quote, but it was in his
• 2:11:43
  Speaker 2: obituary and he was in this great movie when I
• 2:11:45
  Speaker 2: was a kid man for All Seasons, and he was
• 2:11:47
  Speaker 2: in Redford's Quiz Show and it was a great English actor.
• 2:11:50
  Speaker 2: And when he died. In his obituary there was an
• 2:11:53
  Speaker 2: interview with him. He said, you were performing King Lear
• 2:11:56
  Speaker 2: at your local church at Why weren't you doing it
• 2:11:59
  Speaker 2: on the West End? You know, because you were you
• 2:12:01
  Speaker 2: were healthy enough. They were asking him, why are you
• 2:12:02
  Speaker 2: doing he was doing a play at a local church
• 2:12:05
  Speaker 2: near me, saying, I really like walking to work. And
• 2:12:09
  Speaker 2: I've realized that I really have always only performed for
• 2:12:15
  Speaker 2: whoever it was is that made me. And I can
• 2:12:19
  Speaker 2: do that anywhere. I can do it on Broadway, I
• 2:12:21
  Speaker 2: can do it in a Robert Redford movie, and I
• 2:12:23
  Speaker 2: can do it in my local theater. It's the same action.
• 2:12:28
  Speaker 2: And it's taken me a lifetime to realize that it doesn't.
• 2:12:30
  Speaker 2: I just love to do it. And He's like, and
• 2:12:32
  Speaker 2: I'd like to walk to work, so I'm not going
• 2:12:34
  Speaker 2: to West End, And I thought, I love this guy.
• 2:12:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well that is real purity. Yeah, when you're you're
• 2:12:42
  Speaker 1: not chasing any prestige, You're you're only doing it for
• 2:12:45
  Speaker 1: the thing.
• 2:12:46
  Speaker 2: And I bet there are people that he loved there.
• 2:12:50
  Speaker 1: Of course, other people you're doing that for, Yeah, of course. Yeah.
• 2:12:55
  Speaker 1: And it's probably more purity to it knowing that it's
• 2:12:59
  Speaker 1: not going to be reviewed in the New York Times.
• 2:13:01
  Speaker 1: It's like you're doing something that you're only doing it
• 2:13:04
  Speaker 1: for the love of.
• 2:13:04
  Speaker 2: It and if you want to be but if you
• 2:13:06
  Speaker 2: want to play pro ball, you know, there's certain things
• 2:13:10
  Speaker 2: you know if you're you know, the Algi the Great
• 2:13:16
  Speaker 2: he used to coach for ut Baseball, his great thing.
• 2:13:20
  Speaker 2: He'd say that why he didn't coach the Yankees or
• 2:13:23
  Speaker 2: the Red Sox, because he won five NCAA championships. So
• 2:13:27
  Speaker 2: the problem is with pro ball, the object of the
• 2:13:30
  Speaker 2: game is to win, and in college sports, my job
• 2:13:35
  Speaker 2: is to develop young men, and if I do that right,
• 2:13:39
  Speaker 2: we will win. But it's I like the priority, and
• 2:13:44
  Speaker 2: I feel like if the priority is my own development,
• 2:13:48
  Speaker 2: you know, then more times than not, something good will happen.
• 2:13:52
  Speaker 2: If my priority is to win, make cash, be a
• 2:13:56
  Speaker 2: big shot, blah blah blah, I've kind of lost why
• 2:14:00
  Speaker 2: should play the game? And the trick for me is, well,
• 2:14:04
  Speaker 2: I do want to be a professional actor. Like I
• 2:14:07
  Speaker 2: like being relevant, I like making relevant art. I like
• 2:14:11
  Speaker 2: talking to people and communicating with people. So you have
• 2:14:14
  Speaker 2: to figure out that balance of like, all right, this
• 2:14:16
  Speaker 2: is how I pay my bills, this is you know,
• 2:14:19
  Speaker 2: what facilitates all my whole life. So I have to
• 2:14:25
  Speaker 2: be a little attentive to the professional part of my
• 2:14:27
  Speaker 2: brain and not let it diminish the kid in me. Yeah,
• 2:14:31
  Speaker 2: you know, and to keep them both in some kind
• 2:14:34
  Speaker 2: of balance. And that's for me been my adult life.
• 2:14:38
  Speaker 1: The term developing men or developing people, developing young people
• 2:14:43
  Speaker 1: my martial arts instructor. When I was a young boy,
• 2:14:46
  Speaker 1: there was like a pamphlet that they had released explaining
• 2:14:51
  Speaker 1: what the classes were all about. And in one of
• 2:14:54
  Speaker 1: the quotes that always stuck with me forever is martial
• 2:14:56
  Speaker 1: arts are a vehicle for developing your human potential. So
• 2:15:01
  Speaker 1: is acting, Yes, so is anything. So it's playing chessy,
• 2:15:04
  Speaker 1: So it's playing music. If you do it right, everything everything. Yeah.
• 2:15:09
  Speaker 1: Mia Malta Musashi, the famous samurai, had a great quote,
• 2:15:11
  Speaker 1: once you understand the way broadly, you can see it
• 2:15:14
  Speaker 1: in all things. Yeah.
• 2:15:18
  Speaker 2: Then in the art of motorcycle maintenance, it's the same idea.
• 2:15:22
  Speaker 1: There's it's the the real, the real beauty of it
• 2:15:25
  Speaker 1: all is concentrating on the development of the thing, and
• 2:15:30
  Speaker 1: in that thing you will grow as a human.
• 2:15:32
  Speaker 2: And that's the thing where we're talking about boxing or
• 2:15:34
  Speaker 2: fighting or acting or whatever. The thing about the one
• 2:15:37
  Speaker 2: hundred focus is it, it's it's kind of by shedding everything.
• 2:15:47
  Speaker 2: There's a discipline to that about seeing all the little details.
• 2:15:51
  Speaker 2: I find. For example, in acting, they always talk about this,
• 2:15:55
  Speaker 2: is he a good listener? Like one of the things
• 2:15:57
  Speaker 2: like are you responding naturally like human being? Can you listen?
• 2:16:02
  Speaker 2: And in the art of teaching myself to about acting
• 2:16:05
  Speaker 2: about how to be present with my scene partner, I've
• 2:16:08
  Speaker 2: learned how to be present with you with my kids.
• 2:16:13
  Speaker 2: When I'm at a baseball game with my friends, right
• 2:16:17
  Speaker 2: it actually it's like it's meaning. I'm taking the same
• 2:16:20
  Speaker 2: idea that if you train to do a fight well
• 2:16:23
  Speaker 2: and you really feel what excellence at that level is like,
• 2:16:27
  Speaker 2: you can feel it in other things. It can translate.
• 2:16:30
  Speaker 2: You know what slopy thinking is if you've been relaxed
• 2:16:35
  Speaker 2: while you're doing something hard, you know what it's like
• 2:16:39
  Speaker 2: when you're tense because it's not having that feeling that
• 2:16:42
  Speaker 2: you had in that fight where you were really great.
• 2:16:44
  Speaker 2: That's the same with my I've done performances where it
• 2:16:49
  Speaker 2: goes up all by itself and it's amazing feeling. A
• 2:16:52
  Speaker 2: lot of work and preparation is to go into that
• 2:16:55
  Speaker 2: feeling of disappearing. But now I know when it's not happening.
• 2:16:58
  Speaker 2: And it doesn't mean I can make get happen, but
• 2:17:01
  Speaker 2: at least an awareness that it's not happening is a
• 2:17:04
  Speaker 2: great starting place to go. Why is it not.
• 2:17:06
  Speaker 1: Happening, right. Something smells something smells like philis. Yeah, yeah,
• 2:17:10
  Speaker 1: I want to talk to you about because Jamie brought
• 2:17:12
  Speaker 1: us up yesterday, Denzel Washington, when you're doing training day
• 2:17:15
  Speaker 1: like so much. Apparently Jamie was saying of the dialogue
• 2:17:20
  Speaker 1: that you guys had was completely improvised by Denzel.
• 2:17:24
  Speaker 2: He is an astonishing I mean, it's like, yes, the
• 2:17:33
  Speaker 2: short answer to your question is it was. We would
• 2:17:37
  Speaker 2: be doing ride arounds, you know, in the back of
• 2:17:40
  Speaker 2: these cop cars, watching these arrests or talking to some
• 2:17:42
  Speaker 2: of these people who really lived the life that we
• 2:17:44
  Speaker 2: were doing, and they would say something really funny, you know,
• 2:17:49
  Speaker 2: and I would just see Denzel would like glance at me,
• 2:17:53
  Speaker 2: and I realized, oh, that just went the computer, you know,
• 2:17:57
  Speaker 2: and then it would come out, you know, in a scene.
• 2:18:00
  Speaker 2: I mean two months later, that line that that guy
• 2:18:02
  Speaker 2: said exactly, it would come out. It was a great script.
• 2:18:06
  Speaker 2: I don't want to David erwod the script. It's a
• 2:18:08
  Speaker 2: phenomenal script. I mean when I read that script, I
• 2:18:12
  Speaker 2: wanted that part so badly. Denzel's one of my favorite actors.
• 2:18:16
  Speaker 2: He is probably my favorite actor. I think, you know,
• 2:18:20
  Speaker 2: Malcolm X and Raging Bull are two towering, maybe Nicholson
• 2:18:24
  Speaker 2: one full of the Kouka's nest like lives like the
• 2:18:27
  Speaker 2: three great performances of my lifetime. And but his he's
• 2:18:35
  Speaker 2: always listening, always listening, talking, asking, thinking, curious, so present,
• 2:18:44
  Speaker 2: so commanding. And if you take responsibility for your own work,
• 2:18:53
  Speaker 2: you can you can have a great experience. And if
• 2:18:56
  Speaker 2: you don't, he'll run you over.
• 2:19:00
  Speaker 1: Like I heard, like King Kong and got shit on me.
• 2:19:02
  Speaker 1: That was all just completely improvised.
• 2:19:04
  Speaker 2: So it's slick towards the last day of the shoot,
• 2:19:08
  Speaker 2: and I had been. When people say improvised, they think, oh,
• 2:19:13
  Speaker 2: just some magic lightning bolt happened. It's months of work.
• 2:19:18
  Speaker 2: It was improvised. He's just supposed to yell fuck you
• 2:19:21
  Speaker 2: or something. As I'm walking away, and this monologue flew
• 2:19:26
  Speaker 2: out of his mouth. You know, y'all gonna be playing
• 2:19:29
  Speaker 2: for the Pelican Bay All Stars. This is my neighborhood.
• 2:19:32
  Speaker 2: Y' all just live here. King Kong ain't got nothing
• 2:19:35
  Speaker 2: on me, just all this stuff. And it was it
• 2:19:38
  Speaker 2: was a last day of shooting or third to last
• 2:19:40
  Speaker 2: day or something, and it was all his prep. Just
• 2:19:44
  Speaker 2: he's just this is here's here's a line that didn't
• 2:19:47
  Speaker 2: make the movie. Here's another line that didn't make them.
• 2:19:48
  Speaker 2: Here's another thing I wanted to say, here's another thing.
• 2:19:50
  Speaker 2: And he just started throwing them all out there, and
• 2:19:53
  Speaker 2: I shit, you not man the shots. It's on me.
• 2:19:57
  Speaker 2: I'm walking out of the you know, walking away from me,
• 2:20:00
  Speaker 2: screaming all this stuff. And that's when I say, I'm
• 2:20:04
  Speaker 2: chasing a feeling like that's one of the I mean
• 2:20:07
  Speaker 2: to just be there that day, you know, to watch
• 2:20:10
  Speaker 2: a you know, a great somebody's working on a different
• 2:20:14
  Speaker 2: level than everybody else. You know, he's he you know,
• 2:20:17
  Speaker 2: he makes all of us look like we're mastering checkers,
• 2:20:20
  Speaker 2: you know, and and he's and but to be there
• 2:20:22
  Speaker 2: and be part of the magic. And I knew where
• 2:20:24
  Speaker 2: I'd heard him auditioned some of those lines, other places,
• 2:20:27
  Speaker 2: you know, we'd wear lines together, and he tried this
• 2:20:30
  Speaker 2: the other things he was. He was amazing, amazing, That's
• 2:20:34
  Speaker 2: what I mean about the power of his imagination.
• 2:20:36
  Speaker 1: He was Alonso.
• 2:20:38
  Speaker 2: And anything that he would pick up or hear would
• 2:20:41
  Speaker 2: go into the computer and then it would he would
• 2:20:43
  Speaker 2: look for the ways that it could help the script,
• 2:20:46
  Speaker 2: look look for a way you know, he wasn't you know,
• 2:20:50
  Speaker 2: he wasn't putting selfishly tearing the saale up to make
• 2:20:53
  Speaker 2: it about him. He's always looking to help. I even
• 2:20:56
  Speaker 2: remember he came to the set the day I have
• 2:20:58
  Speaker 2: the scene that he's not in with the the chill
• 2:21:02
  Speaker 2: O Gang, you know, and there we're playing cards and
• 2:21:05
  Speaker 2: you know, get ready to ship pushed in that scene,
• 2:21:07
  Speaker 2: you know. But they put me in the bathtub, and
• 2:21:11
  Speaker 2: Denzel came to set and he watched the scene. He
• 2:21:14
  Speaker 2: was like, damn, I'm like, what this is gonna be
• 2:21:17
  Speaker 2: the best scene in the movie and I'm not in it.
• 2:21:19
  Speaker 2: I hate this scene. It's funny he walked away. It was,
• 2:21:24
  Speaker 2: but it was very great. I mean he was all
• 2:21:26
  Speaker 2: in that movie.
• 2:21:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's awesome. That's awesome, Ethan. Thank you very much, man,
• 2:21:32
  Speaker 1: this is a really fun conversation. I really enjoyed it.
• 2:21:34
  Speaker 2: I'm really glad you had me.
• 2:21:35
  Speaker 1: Thank you, and thank you for all the movies.
• 2:21:37
  Speaker 2: Man. If you can't tell it's been my pleasure.
• 2:21:40
  Speaker 1: Thank you might as well. Thank you by everybody.