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Jennie Cramer - The Belle of New Haven · Wicked and Grim: A True Crime Podcast

0:07
Speaker 1: On a warm August morning in eighteen eighty one, the
0:11
Speaker 1: lifeless body of a young woman dressed in white was
0:15
Speaker 1: discovered gently rocking in shallow waters. She was soon identified
0:20
Speaker 1: as young Jenny Kramer, the Bell of new Haven, whose
0:25
Speaker 1: charm and allure had captivated the town. As news of
0:29
Speaker 1: her death spread, so did whispers of love and betrayal.
0:34
Speaker 1: Was Jenny's death the cruel accident, a desperate act or
0:38
Speaker 1: was it the work of sinister hands hidden behind wealth
0:42
Speaker 1: and privilege. This is the story of Jenny Kramer, the
0:48
Speaker 1: Bell of new Haven.
0:51
Speaker 2: My name's Ben, I'm Nicole, and you're listening to Wicked
0:54
Speaker 2: and Grim, a true crime podcast.
0:58
Speaker 1: The following dan intended for your audience. Listener discution. We
1:29
Speaker 1: haven't uploaded an episode since last years.
1:32
Speaker 2: Oh, we've been really slacking over here forever.
1:37
Speaker 1: Happy New Year, It's twenty twenty five. Hopefully you guys
1:39
Speaker 1: had a great one and hopefully the next one here
1:42
Speaker 1: coming up in twenty twenty five. This whole year is great.
1:45
Speaker 2: As well for you, just as great better.
1:48
Speaker 1: Oh, the bestest of betters, all the betterness period. I
1:54
Speaker 1: didn't know where I was going with that, just all
1:56
Speaker 1: the betterness.
1:56
Speaker 2: There we go that's We just hope you have a
1:59
Speaker 2: good year and that you had a good holiday, and
2:01
Speaker 2: you know, it's back to reality now, so exactly officially,
2:05
Speaker 2: or maybe I feel like officially it might probably Monday
2:09
Speaker 2: next Monday, because I think like kids go back to
2:12
Speaker 2: school then and stuff, so.
2:13
Speaker 1: Exactly, so maybe the reality will set in, you know,
2:17
Speaker 1: And we got to kind of I don't know about
2:19
Speaker 1: you guys, but I got to start watching my calorie
2:20
Speaker 1: and take a little bit more. I certainly put on
2:23
Speaker 1: a couple pounds over the holidays.
2:26
Speaker 2: So yeah, I mean, tis the season. It's so hard
2:30
Speaker 2: not to There's just so much temptation like good bevyes,
2:35
Speaker 2: such good food like appies, and I don't know, I
2:38
Speaker 2: could go on, and the relaxing, you know, oh yeah,
2:41
Speaker 2: and then not moving exactly, so.
2:43
Speaker 1: It all accumulates. But yeah, we're no longer going to
2:47
Speaker 1: be sitting here talking about Christmas or New Year's anymore.
2:50
Speaker 1: We are, of course, this is a true Cram podcast.
2:52
Speaker 1: We're going to talk about a murder and we're going
2:54
Speaker 1: to go all the way back to the eighteen hundreds
2:56
Speaker 1: for this one today. Okay, I don't know if you've noticed,
3:00
Speaker 1: but I've been in a bit of a mystery binge lately,
3:03
Speaker 1: unsolved kind of binge lately lately.
3:07
Speaker 2: I feel like you always are, well.
3:08
Speaker 1: I always am, Yes, But I mean the ones I'm
3:10
Speaker 1: putting out there into the ether of this podcast are
3:13
Speaker 1: a little bit more unsolved episodes.
3:16
Speaker 2: You know what I mean.
3:17
Speaker 1: Yeah, and this one is technically unsolved.
3:21
Speaker 2: I don't think we've done an old one like this
3:23
Speaker 2: for a little bit.
3:24
Speaker 1: Eh, it's been a while for sure. Uh so we are. Yeah,
3:28
Speaker 1: it's we're gonna go back old timy. It is a mystery,
3:32
Speaker 1: though many people believe they know exactly what happened and
3:36
Speaker 1: who did it.
3:37
Speaker 2: Oh.
3:37
Speaker 1: Okay, so technically unsolved. But yeah, you're probably gonna have
3:43
Speaker 1: a very strong opinion at the end of this case.
3:46
Speaker 2: Okay. So it maybe should be solved.
3:50
Speaker 1: It maybe could be should be It's up for you to.
3:54
Speaker 2: Decide, Okay. Okay, Well, let's hear it.
3:56
Speaker 1: Okay. So we're starting off with an individual by the
3:59
Speaker 1: name of Jenny Kramer. Now. Jenny came into the world
4:02
Speaker 1: in the spring of eighteen sixty. Born and raised in
4:05
Speaker 1: the bustling city of New Haven, Connecticut. She was one
4:08
Speaker 1: of three children born to Jacob and Christina Kramer, a
4:12
Speaker 1: hard working couple who ran a small cigar shop in town.
4:16
Speaker 1: Jenny's childhood was a mix of discipline and indulgence, as
4:19
Speaker 1: her parents ensured that she was well cared for. Like
4:23
Speaker 1: most kids of her time, Jenny attended school, but she
4:26
Speaker 1: left her studies behind at just fifteen years old. And
4:29
Speaker 1: while that may seem young today, back in the eighteen hundreds,
4:32
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm sure it wasn't exactly unusual, especially for girls,
4:35
Speaker 1: you know, often not following through the pursuit of education
4:38
Speaker 1: and going straight to work instead. Right now, What did
4:42
Speaker 1: set Jenny apart from her peers, though, was she didn't
4:45
Speaker 1: just go straight from school and go find a job
4:47
Speaker 1: and go work. Instead, she stayed at home with her parents.
4:52
Speaker 1: This was somewhat out of the ordinary for a young
4:54
Speaker 1: woman her age in the mid eighteen seventies and eighteen
4:57
Speaker 1: eighties kind of era. But many of whom to work
5:00
Speaker 1: and other factories and other trades, you know, like that's
5:02
Speaker 1: just kind of the normal. But yeah, Jenny didn't. Now,
5:06
Speaker 1: as Jenny grew older, her beauty began to turn heads
5:08
Speaker 1: around New Haven. She had a natural charm and she
5:12
Speaker 1: took great care in her appearance as well, always stepping
5:15
Speaker 1: out in stylish clothing and ensuring that her makeup and
5:18
Speaker 1: skin were impeccable. People of course took notice. They looked,
5:23
Speaker 1: and they saw beauty, and Jenny quickly became known as
5:26
Speaker 1: one of the most attractive young women in the area.
5:30
Speaker 2: Really hay wow, that is quite the title.
5:34
Speaker 1: Yeah, I already mentioned it in the intro, but she
5:38
Speaker 1: has another title here that we're about to touch on here.
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Speaker 2: Okay.
5:41
Speaker 1: So her striking looks didn't go unnoticed by her mother,
5:44
Speaker 1: who understood the challenges that came with being a young
5:47
Speaker 1: woman in a society obsessed with appearances and reputations. Now,
5:51
Speaker 1: her mother, Christina, kept a close eye on Jenny's social life,
5:55
Speaker 1: knowing full well that a young lady's good name could
5:58
Speaker 1: easily be tarnished by gossip or of course poor choices
6:01
Speaker 1: as well, particularly poor choicing company, which can of course
6:04
Speaker 1: turn sour. She was determined to protect her daughter's image
6:08
Speaker 1: as the Belle of New Haven, which she had recently
6:12
Speaker 1: been dubbed.
6:13
Speaker 2: Okay, okay, so yeah, I mean I was saying the
6:16
Speaker 2: title of like, most attractive in the town or whatever.
6:19
Speaker 1: But she literally got a title, yeah, the Belle, the
6:23
Speaker 1: Belle of New Haven, of New Haven. Yeah, you know,
6:25
Speaker 1: people always say, oh, the bell of the ball, right, yeah, No,
6:28
Speaker 1: she's the belle of the town, not just the event,
6:31
Speaker 1: She's the belle of the fucking town.
6:33
Speaker 2: Oh huh. Yeah, I'm sure there's like a lineup of
6:38
Speaker 2: men then wanting in on this, say.
6:42
Speaker 1: Pretty much which we will touch on, okay now. Despite
6:45
Speaker 1: missus Kramer's watchful eye, Jenny often found ways to step
6:50
Speaker 1: out and enjoy the world beyond her family's cigar shop.
6:52
Speaker 1: She relished the attention she received, particularly from men, and
6:56
Speaker 1: didn't shy away from meeting new admirers. Among them was
7:00
Speaker 1: a man named James Mallee Junior, whose uncle, Edward Mallee,
7:04
Speaker 1: owned a prosperous dry goods store located conveniently across the
7:07
Speaker 1: street from the Kramer's cigar shop. Jenny met James in
7:11
Speaker 1: eighteen eighty one, when she was twenty one years old.
7:14
Speaker 1: I mean, their introduction seemed almost inevitable given the proximity
7:17
Speaker 1: of the family businesses to each other, and it didn't
7:21
Speaker 1: take long for James to develop an intense, in fact
7:24
Speaker 1: infatuation with Jenny. I mean, like you said, there's pretty
7:27
Speaker 1: much like men lining up for her right So he
7:30
Speaker 1: was one of those men who right away was like, damn,
7:33
Speaker 1: gotta get on on this soun like you. Yeah, So
7:36
Speaker 1: he began sending her notes, often delivered directly to the
7:39
Speaker 1: cigar shop, you know, writing love letters to her sort
7:42
Speaker 1: of thing, expressing his admiration. But while James was clearly smitten,
7:46
Speaker 1: this wasn't a romance in the making. Jenny seemed only
7:50
Speaker 1: mildly interested in him. She accepted his invitations for evening
7:54
Speaker 1: walks now and then, but mostly for her own enjoyment
7:57
Speaker 1: of anything else. She loved being out in the warm
8:00
Speaker 1: summer nights and wasn't opposed to extra attention that James
8:03
Speaker 1: was lavishing her in either. Jenny's walks with James were
8:07
Speaker 1: never one on one to appease her mother's concerns. They
8:10
Speaker 1: were always joined by James's cousin, Walter Malley. Walter was
8:15
Speaker 1: his parents were the ones who owned the Malle's dry
8:18
Speaker 1: goods store, okay, yeah, and he was a bit of
8:20
Speaker 1: a stark contrast from James. He was quiet and reserved,
8:24
Speaker 1: and Walter had an academic background that included a stint
8:27
Speaker 1: and prestigious school and a brief time at Yale even
8:30
Speaker 1: though he hadn't finished his studies. Walter, for his part,
8:34
Speaker 1: seemed to have little interest in Jenny beyond fulfilling the
8:37
Speaker 1: role of a chaperone for his cousin and her. He
8:40
Speaker 1: was reportedly in a relationship with a young woman named
8:42
Speaker 1: Blanche Douglas, who he and James claimed to have met
8:45
Speaker 1: in New York. They described Blanche as a wealthy socialite
8:49
Speaker 1: from Long Island, and hinted that Walter and Blanche were
8:52
Speaker 1: even on the verge of engagement soon. Okay, yeah, Now,
8:58
Speaker 1: while James's attention towards Jenny Borden bordered on obsession, her feelings,
9:03
Speaker 1: of course, remained ambiguous. She enjoyed these social outings the admiration,
9:08
Speaker 1: but she never gave any indication that she saw James
9:12
Speaker 1: as more than just a casual companion a friend. Right,
9:15
Speaker 1: She's she's keeping him friend zoned, is basically what's happening here, right.
9:19
Speaker 2: And he's trying to push the limits.
9:21
Speaker 1: Well, he's not necessarily trying to push the limits right now,
9:24
Speaker 1: but he's definitely trying to swoone her.
9:25
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, he's letting his feelings be known, I suppose
9:29
Speaker 2: for sure.
9:30
Speaker 1: Now, at twenty three years old, James was a lively
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Speaker 1: and outgoing young man, and his family's wealth was well
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Speaker 1: known throughout New Haven. It wasn't just his cousin's parents
9:39
Speaker 1: who owned a shop and was well off. His parents
9:42
Speaker 1: also were quite well off. Okay, However, Jenny wasn't swayed
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Speaker 1: by his privileged background. She had no intention of committing
9:50
Speaker 1: herself to James or anyone else just yet for that matter. Either.
9:53
Speaker 1: Jenny was keenly aware of her own value that she
9:56
Speaker 1: brought and believed that her beauty and charm would secure
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Speaker 1: her her a husband of her choosing one day, preferably
10:03
Speaker 1: someone from a family is affluent as the Malleys, but
10:06
Speaker 1: someone of her choosing, someone that she wanted as well. Okay,
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Speaker 1: she knows her worth, she knows her worth, and she's
10:12
Speaker 1: holding out for it basse.
10:14
Speaker 2: Yeah, but it also doesn't sound like this guy like
10:16
Speaker 2: he's uh, oh, what would be the word, like a
10:19
Speaker 2: desirable bachelor as well? Potentially right, he doesn'tly she just
10:23
Speaker 2: I don't know.
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Speaker 1: Maybe he wasn't very hot, who knows, Yeah, she's just
10:26
Speaker 1: looking for someone else. Maybe he's I don't know, maybe
10:29
Speaker 1: he's a little bit of a nerd or something. Whatever.
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Speaker 1: It was in her perspective, he wasn't the guy for
10:34
Speaker 1: her fair enough, Yeah, and I don't think that she
10:36
Speaker 1: was particularly keen on settling down anytime soon either. She
10:41
Speaker 1: was enjoying the attention, you know, the bachelorette lifestyle sort
10:44
Speaker 1: of sort of say so, she was just living her
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Speaker 1: best life, knowing she's worth it and holding out until
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Speaker 1: she finds mister.
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Speaker 2: Right, the guy that she can't stop thinking about now.
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Speaker 1: In the evening of July twenty third, eighteen eight, Jenny
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Speaker 1: went out again with James Walter, and this time with Blench.
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Speaker 1: It was an unusual, unusually warm summer that night, and
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Speaker 1: Jenny didn't return home until the early hours of the morning.
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Speaker 1: Her late return did not sit well with her mother,
11:15
Speaker 1: though Miss Cramer was deeply concerned and reminded Jenny that
11:19
Speaker 1: it was inappropriate for a young woman to stay out
11:22
Speaker 1: so late. Reputation was everything, and Miss Kramer warned her
11:27
Speaker 1: daughter to avoid any behavior that could invite gossip into
11:31
Speaker 1: her life. Jenny tried to explain herself, saying that she'd
11:35
Speaker 1: been invited to the Mally's mansion and had difficulty finding
11:39
Speaker 1: someone to escort her home, so after a tense conversation,
11:42
Speaker 1: Miss Kramer felt reassured that Jenny understood the importance of
11:46
Speaker 1: maintaining her good name and hoped she wouldn't repeat such
11:49
Speaker 1: behavior again. But less than two weeks later, on August third,
11:54
Speaker 1: Jenny went out once again, and this time she didn't
11:57
Speaker 1: come home at all. The morning of August fourth, her
12:01
Speaker 1: mother was beside herself, worrying and angry. Miss Kramer felt
12:05
Speaker 1: Jenny's actions were no longer befitting of a respectable young lady,
12:09
Speaker 1: and she feared her daughter's behavior could lead to ruin.
12:13
Speaker 1: Jenny eventually returned home that morning, accompanied by Blanche Douglas.
12:18
Speaker 1: Blanche explained to Miss Cramer that the two of them
12:20
Speaker 1: had spent the previous night together at a lady's only
12:23
Speaker 1: lodging house. The relieve that her daughter was safe, Miss
12:28
Speaker 1: Kramer remained very skeptical. She didn't exactly trust Blanche and
12:32
Speaker 1: didn't consider her a suitable companion for Jenny. In her eyes,
12:36
Speaker 1: Blanche's influence could only bring trouble, and she made no
12:39
Speaker 1: secret of her disapproval. Miss Cramer was deeply upset with
12:43
Speaker 1: Jenny's behavior and made her feelings clear. Once again. She
12:47
Speaker 1: reminded her daughter that her actions were not only unacceptable
12:50
Speaker 1: but also a poor example for her younger sister, who
12:53
Speaker 1: would soon be returning home. Miss Kramer, visibly emotional, went
12:57
Speaker 1: so far as to issue an ultimate made them to
13:00
Speaker 1: her daughter. If she couldn't change her ways, she would
13:04
Speaker 1: no longer be welcome in the family home and would
13:06
Speaker 1: need to find somewhere else to live.
13:09
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I guess if she's like keeping her mom up,
13:12
Speaker 2: you know at night and stuff worrying for sure, right, So.
13:17
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean you're not returning home at night, You're
13:18
Speaker 1: returning the next day now, no communications or Yeah, that's scary,
13:23
Speaker 1: And I mean your reputation may not go just as
13:26
Speaker 1: far as you, but it could spill onto your family
13:28
Speaker 1: as well. So the situation is more complex, and just
13:31
Speaker 1: you know, she's being frivolous and running out and enjoying herself.
13:34
Speaker 1: There's much more to it as that, and not only
13:36
Speaker 1: being like maybe spreading onto the family, but her mom
13:39
Speaker 1: is worried about her daughter's singular reputation, right, So being
13:43
Speaker 1: you know, the belle of New Haven with all these
13:45
Speaker 1: men talking about her and all these women maybe even
13:48
Speaker 1: being jealous of.
13:48
Speaker 2: Her, right and starting rumors and gossip.
13:51
Speaker 1: Exactly, one little slip up could ruin her at this point,
13:54
Speaker 1: maybe she won't be able to find a husband then
13:56
Speaker 1: maybe holding out for the mister right, if you get
13:59
Speaker 1: that one rumor out there could ruin her and she
14:02
Speaker 1: may never find anyone.
14:03
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, I feel like she could probably do
14:06
Speaker 2: nothing and still her rumors started about her. Potentially, oh
14:10
Speaker 2: for sure.
14:10
Speaker 1: But I mean if the entire town like, oh I
14:13
Speaker 1: saw her out late, Yeah, and then it's like all
14:16
Speaker 1: these guys are like, well, I don't want her. If
14:17
Speaker 1: she's like that, then then maybe she doesn't even have
14:20
Speaker 1: any options anymore.
14:21
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly.
14:22
Speaker 1: So there's there's a lot of fine lines that are
14:26
Speaker 1: being walked here, and especially ones that I'm sure we
14:28
Speaker 1: don't fully understand given the error in the time.
14:30
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was just going to say, the times were
14:32
Speaker 2: very different back then.
14:35
Speaker 1: So after delivering this stern warning and ultimatum to her daughter,
14:38
Speaker 1: miss miss Kramer left the room to collect herself, and
14:42
Speaker 1: when she returned, she was startled to find that both
14:45
Speaker 1: Jenny and Blanche were gone. They had left without a word,
14:49
Speaker 1: and it seemed that the confrontation had been a breaking
14:51
Speaker 1: point for both mother and daughter. The following day, there
14:56
Speaker 1: was no sign of Jenny. Miss Kramer didn't hear her
14:59
Speaker 1: from her, and her concern just began to grow, just
15:02
Speaker 1: like before.
15:03
Speaker 2: Ah shit hey.
15:05
Speaker 1: But it was early on the morning of Saturday, August
15:07
Speaker 1: sixth that the events took a tragic and unexpected turn.
15:12
Speaker 1: A local oysterman named Osiel Curtis was preparing his boat
15:16
Speaker 1: for hard's day work on the water There we Go,
15:20
Speaker 1: when he noticed something unusual in the shallows of the
15:22
Speaker 1: water near shore. The waves lapped up against a strange,
15:26
Speaker 1: indistinct shape catched his attention, and he was intrigued and
15:31
Speaker 1: a little uneasy, but he decided to investigate. As the
15:35
Speaker 1: man drew closer, he strained to make out what he
15:37
Speaker 1: was seeing. The shape eventually became clearer with each step,
15:41
Speaker 1: and the sickening realization dawned upon him. Floating in the water,
15:45
Speaker 1: partially obscured by the waves, crashing on the shore was
15:48
Speaker 1: the lifeless body of a young woman dressed in a
15:51
Speaker 1: white gown. Osi l bent down and gently lifted the
15:56
Speaker 1: young woman's lifeless body into his arms from the water
15:59
Speaker 1: and carried her to the shore. The grim discovery quickly
16:02
Speaker 1: attracted the attention of locals, and a crowd began to gather.
16:06
Speaker 1: Osaiel alerted the authorities, and police arrived soon after taking
16:10
Speaker 1: charge of the situation. Among the murmurs of the crowd,
16:13
Speaker 1: someone recognized the deceased as none other than Jenny Kramer,
16:17
Speaker 1: the well known belle of New Haven. The officers, now
16:22
Speaker 1: faced with identifying her for certain and understanding the circumstances
16:26
Speaker 1: of her death, began piecing together the initial theory. Though
16:30
Speaker 1: they lacked concrete evidence, they speculated that Jenny might have drowned.
16:35
Speaker 1: One possible scenario, they entertained, was that she had taken
16:37
Speaker 1: her own life, in fact, perhaps in despair over an
16:40
Speaker 1: unwonted pregnancy, given the societal pressures and stigmas of the time. Now,
16:46
Speaker 1: Jenny's body was moved to a nearby boat house, where
16:48
Speaker 1: she was eventually identified for certain, and two doctors were
16:52
Speaker 1: called to examine her remains and determine the cause of
16:55
Speaker 1: her death. The initial findings cast doubt on the police's
16:59
Speaker 1: original theory of a potential suicide, especially one with a
17:02
Speaker 1: potential pregnancy, as both doctors noted inconsistencies that suggested drowning
17:08
Speaker 1: might have been a cause at all. To confirm their suspicions.
17:11
Speaker 1: An autopsy was conducted. The results were conclusive. There was
17:16
Speaker 1: no water in Jenny's lungs or stomach, ruling out drowning
17:20
Speaker 1: as a cause of death.
17:23
Speaker 2: Gang. Yeah, okay, and how old was she? Like early
17:28
Speaker 2: twenties right.
17:29
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm not sure her exact age. I don't know
17:32
Speaker 1: if I have it written down anywhere, but yes, she
17:33
Speaker 1: would have been I believe twenty one or something like that.
17:36
Speaker 2: Yeah. And so her oh and the last time her
17:39
Speaker 2: mom would have seen her alive then was like when
17:42
Speaker 2: they were arguing, yep, which is so sad.
17:45
Speaker 1: She gave her the ultimatum.
17:47
Speaker 2: Yeah, oh shit, oh gosh, okay, that's.
17:51
Speaker 1: The worst yeap, So she gave her that ultimatum, Jenny
17:55
Speaker 1: m blanche took off yep, and then her mom came
17:58
Speaker 1: back in the room to find they were gone. She
18:00
Speaker 1: didn't return home the next day, and then the day
18:02
Speaker 1: after that her body was found.
18:04
Speaker 2: Oh no, yeah.
18:09
Speaker 1: So yeah. This revelation of no water in her lungs
18:13
Speaker 1: and everything showing that she did not drowned really shifted
18:16
Speaker 1: the case from a presumed tragic accident or suicide to
18:20
Speaker 1: a possible homicide. Yeah. And this also escalated things in
18:27
Speaker 1: this possible homicide category, especially when considering some more sinister
18:31
Speaker 1: discoveries that came from the autopsy. See was also discovered
18:35
Speaker 1: that this young lady, Jenny, had been subjected to a
18:38
Speaker 1: physical attack prior, and she was most likely sexually assaulted
18:43
Speaker 1: and raped.
18:46
Speaker 2: Oh gosh, okay yeah.
18:49
Speaker 1: The body of Jenny was found near the Savin Rock
18:52
Speaker 1: Amusement Park, a bustling seaside attraction in West Haven, and
18:56
Speaker 1: as police began their investigation, witnesses came forward with intriguing
18:59
Speaker 1: account Several claimed that they had seen the young woman
19:03
Speaker 1: matching Jenny's description in a company of a young man
19:06
Speaker 1: with a mustache on the evening of Friday, August fifth,
19:09
Speaker 1: the day before her body was discovered. These accounts eventually
19:13
Speaker 1: led investigators to James malleie.
19:17
Speaker 2: Does he have a fucking mustache.
19:18
Speaker 1: Who was known to have a mustache at the time.
19:23
Speaker 1: It also led them to his cousin Walter Malley and
19:26
Speaker 1: their companion Blanche Douglas. The trio admitted to have been
19:31
Speaker 1: with Jenny on Wednesday, August third, but claimed to have
19:34
Speaker 1: not seen her since the morning of Thursday, August fourth,
19:38
Speaker 1: the day Jenny last spoke with her mother. Around this time,
19:43
Speaker 1: Edward Malley, the prominent patriarch the Mallee family, returned from
19:46
Speaker 1: his business trip to find his son James and his
19:49
Speaker 1: nephew Walter under police scrutiny. Alarmed and protective, Edward immediately
19:56
Speaker 1: hired a team of high profile lawyers and private detectives
19:59
Speaker 1: to defend these well kids.
20:02
Speaker 2: I guess right, well, they were young adults.
20:04
Speaker 1: They were young adults, but like in his eyes, like
20:06
Speaker 1: these young kids, like you know, like these young men.
20:08
Speaker 1: How's that? Yeah, So, not long after, rumors began to
20:12
Speaker 1: swirl that witnesses that were saying that, you know, they
20:15
Speaker 1: saw someone with this woman matching her description with the
20:18
Speaker 1: mustache right right, all these witnesses coming in with these reports,
20:22
Speaker 1: these these rumors began to swirl that they were being
20:26
Speaker 1: persuaded and perhaps even bribe to alter their testimonies. Because
20:30
Speaker 1: witnesses who previously told police they'd seen Jenny with James
20:33
Speaker 1: or Walter or Blanche on the evening of the fifth
20:36
Speaker 1: began to recant or express doubts about their earlier statements.
20:38
Speaker 1: You know, maybe I was wrong. No, No, I think
20:41
Speaker 1: it might have been the day before, like things like that.
20:44
Speaker 2: And this family has like a lot of money and shit.
20:46
Speaker 1: Right, they have a lot of money and a lot
20:48
Speaker 1: of power. So these inconsistencies complicated the investigation and it
20:53
Speaker 1: fueled public speculation about what had truly happened to Jenny.
21:00
Speaker 1: Was soon held during which Blanche Douglas testified about her
21:04
Speaker 1: time with Jenny. Blanche stated that on the evening of Wednesday,
21:08
Speaker 1: August third, she, Jenny, James, and Walter had been at
21:12
Speaker 1: the Mallee mansion. Blanche claimed she began to feel a
21:17
Speaker 1: little bit unwell, so she decided that she was going
21:20
Speaker 1: to stay at the mansion instead of returning to her
21:22
Speaker 1: lodging house.
21:24
Speaker 2: Oh okay, but they had told them They had told
21:28
Speaker 2: the mom that they were at like a woman's only.
21:31
Speaker 1: Lodging home, lodge or something. Yes, so I believe that
21:34
Speaker 1: lodging home, though I'm not factually sure, I believe that's
21:37
Speaker 1: where Blanche was living or staying. Okay, So, yes, they
21:43
Speaker 1: told Jenny's mother that that's where they slept that night.
21:47
Speaker 1: But now Blanche is telling police that she was feeling
21:49
Speaker 1: uneasy that that night and didn't return to the lodging home.
21:53
Speaker 2: Okay, so was at the Mallee. She had stayed there
21:55
Speaker 2: or whatever to rest or something. Okay, so we have
21:58
Speaker 2: like no idea what Jenny was actually where she was.
22:02
Speaker 1: Pretty much okay. She further testified that she and Jenny
22:06
Speaker 1: had shared a room that evening, so she's basically saying
22:09
Speaker 1: that Jenny was actually staying at that manch So there
22:12
Speaker 1: is a possibility that they were like, hey, mom, yeah,
22:15
Speaker 1: I know, it's all good, we were at Blanche's house
22:18
Speaker 1: when really they were at some dude's house, like you know, yeah,
22:20
Speaker 1: Which isn't a farfetch story for a young woman to
22:22
Speaker 1: tell their worried mother, because.
22:24
Speaker 2: The mom would not have been okay, yes, with her
22:27
Speaker 2: being there for the night exactly.
22:29
Speaker 1: So it doesn't sound like a farfet story that this
22:32
Speaker 1: is the case the real situation. Now, after testifying in
22:36
Speaker 1: an inquest, Blanche Douglas returned to New York, where she
22:38
Speaker 1: initially was from. However, investigators were not convinced that she
22:42
Speaker 1: had revealed everything that she knew about Jenny's death, so,
22:46
Speaker 1: determined to learn more, the police traveled to New York
22:50
Speaker 1: to track her down and question her further. What they uncovered, though,
22:53
Speaker 1: shocked them a bit. Blanche was not living at the
22:56
Speaker 1: address she provided during her testimony. Instead, they found her
23:00
Speaker 1: working in a brothel, and, confronted with this discovery, Blanche
23:04
Speaker 1: admitted that her real name was actually Anna Karns. She
23:09
Speaker 1: revealed that she had previously been married to an abusive man,
23:12
Speaker 1: which led her to leave him and adopt the name
23:14
Speaker 1: Blanche Douglas in an effort to start over and remain
23:17
Speaker 1: under the radar. Again, not a far fetched.
23:20
Speaker 2: Story, no, no, So was she actually engaged to that
23:24
Speaker 2: cousin then, or the guess they weren't actually engaged. They
23:26
Speaker 2: were like dating.
23:27
Speaker 1: They were dating and they're like, oh, we might get
23:29
Speaker 1: engaged soon, sort there was talk of like a proposal
23:32
Speaker 1: kind of happening soon or like oh, like she's the one,
23:35
Speaker 1: you know. Okay, so it was just talk of potential engagement. Now,
23:40
Speaker 1: Blanche confessed that she had met James and Walter Malley
23:43
Speaker 1: earlier in the year when they visited this particular establishment
23:47
Speaker 1: where she worked in New York.
23:49
Speaker 2: Oh okay, so.
23:50
Speaker 1: When they told Jenny that they met Blanche in New York,
23:53
Speaker 1: they certainly did. They just left out the part where
23:55
Speaker 1: they visited the brothel.
23:56
Speaker 2: Yeah, Oh my gosh.
24:00
Speaker 1: Walter, she said, became infatuated with her there and began
24:04
Speaker 1: sending her love notes and eventually inviting her to his
24:07
Speaker 1: family mansion in New Haven, which is when she moved over,
24:11
Speaker 1: and then that is when she first met Jenny. Now
24:15
Speaker 1: the police pressured Blanche to tell more, tell the full truth.
24:20
Speaker 1: They warned her that the Mallys, yes, they were an
24:22
Speaker 1: influential and wealthy family capable of hiring the best legal
24:25
Speaker 1: defense in the state. But they also made it very
24:28
Speaker 1: clear that if she withheld any information, she could be
24:31
Speaker 1: implicated as a suspect in murder.
24:34
Speaker 2: Yep.
24:36
Speaker 1: Faced with these warnings, with police looming over her, Blanche
24:39
Speaker 1: decided to reveal more details. She admitted that on the
24:43
Speaker 1: night that Jenny had returned home late in July, that
24:46
Speaker 1: very first time she was late, they had been at
24:50
Speaker 1: a restaurant with accommodations. Blanche went to her room with
24:53
Speaker 1: Walter while James tried to coax Jenny into another room
24:56
Speaker 1: with him. She recalled hearing Jenny shouting quote don't don't,
25:01
Speaker 1: suggesting that she was in some sort of distress. Now,
25:04
Speaker 1: Blanche continued describing the events of Wednesday, August third week
25:08
Speaker 1: or two later, and she claimed that they were all
25:10
Speaker 1: at the Malle's mansion that evening, where they had been
25:13
Speaker 1: drinking with Edward Malley away, the group had the house
25:17
Speaker 1: to themselves, so it was just them and no parents.
25:21
Speaker 1: Blanche stated that James was infatuated with Jenny and enlisted
25:24
Speaker 1: her and Walter's help in persuading Jenny to spend the
25:27
Speaker 1: night with him. According to Blanche, Jenny resisted. James eventually
25:33
Speaker 1: took Jenny to a room against her will, and Blanche
25:37
Speaker 1: heard Jenny screaming.
25:38
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, So this James guy's a piece of shit.
25:43
Speaker 1: Yeah, holy crap.
25:45
Speaker 2: Okay, and she kept hanging out with him, but I
25:48
Speaker 2: guess it's like she liked his friendship potentially, right, so.
25:52
Speaker 1: Or the attention or yeah, oh dang. Now Blanche herself
25:57
Speaker 1: went to another room with Walter. She insisted that she
26:00
Speaker 1: had not seen Jenny after the morning of Thursday, August fourth,
26:05
Speaker 1: So the morning they returned home and talked to her mother,
26:07
Speaker 1: that ultimatum was given. She's insisting that's the last time
26:10
Speaker 1: she saw Jenny.
26:11
Speaker 2: Okay, but that yeah, the night before Jenny was in distress. Then, yes,
26:17
Speaker 2: because of this fucking James guy.
26:19
Speaker 1: Yeah now. Blanche also revealed that after returning to New York,
26:23
Speaker 1: two men allegedly visited her, one of whom she believed
26:28
Speaker 1: to be Edward Malley's brother, and these two men offered
26:32
Speaker 1: to pay for her to travel to Europe to keep
26:35
Speaker 1: her away from the investigation until things settled down, which
26:39
Speaker 1: raised a lot of suspicions that efforts were specifically being
26:43
Speaker 1: made to protect the Malle family. When asked again if
26:48
Speaker 1: she had seen Jenny after August fourth, Blanche denied it. However,
26:52
Speaker 1: inconsistencies in her accounts and how she was telling the story,
26:56
Speaker 1: and new revelations led authorities to charge her with perjec
27:00
Speaker 1: and arrested her, making her or sorting making a significant
27:03
Speaker 1: turn in the investigation into Jenny's mysterious, mysterious death. But
27:08
Speaker 1: after her arrest, the case took an even stranger turn
27:12
Speaker 1: when a chemical analysis of Jenny's organs revealed significant traces
27:17
Speaker 1: of arsenic.
27:21
Speaker 2: What would that do? Like, I don't even know what
27:23
Speaker 2: that would do.
27:24
Speaker 1: It's a poison, arsenic poisoning, you.
27:25
Speaker 2: Know, Okay, Yeah.
27:28
Speaker 1: Now, during the late nineteenth century, it was not uncommon
27:30
Speaker 1: for women to use small amounts of arsenic by ingesting
27:33
Speaker 1: it and rubbing it on their skin, believing it improved
27:36
Speaker 1: their complexion. Now, Jenny, known for her beauty and you know,
27:40
Speaker 1: dolling up a little bit, might have engaged in this practice. However,
27:45
Speaker 1: the quantity found in her system far exceeded what could
27:48
Speaker 1: be explained by cosmetic use, indicating that she'd ingested a
27:52
Speaker 1: much larger, potentially lethal dose dose shortly before she died.
27:59
Speaker 1: On August fifteenth, James and Walter Malley were also arrested
28:03
Speaker 1: for Jenny's murder. In a peculiar twist, while awaiting trial,
28:08
Speaker 1: Walter Malley composed a waltz titled Under the Elms, which
28:14
Speaker 1: was later published and remains accessible to this day. You
28:17
Speaker 1: can actually post a link in the description of this podcast.
28:20
Speaker 1: You can go check it out if you're so curious
28:22
Speaker 1: about it, and you can go get the sheet music
28:25
Speaker 1: all that. It's actually in the public domain now. But anyways,
28:28
Speaker 1: I digress, just a little morbide fact for you.
28:30
Speaker 2: You did like play a little bit of it. It
28:32
Speaker 2: was quite good, really.
28:34
Speaker 1: Yeah, but well before we turn the podcast recording on,
28:36
Speaker 1: I played it for you, but knowing that, hey, like
28:39
Speaker 1: this is a murderer. Potentially you wrote this while sitting
28:44
Speaker 1: on trial.
28:45
Speaker 2: It's a little haunting, yeah, but I mean, I guess
28:47
Speaker 2: what else are you supposed to do in there? Yeah,
28:50
Speaker 2: at least he made something up of his time. I guess,
28:52
Speaker 2: I don't know.
28:53
Speaker 1: Kind of productive. Yeah. Now, the trial was set for
28:57
Speaker 1: April twenty fifth, and the charges against James, Walter and
29:00
Speaker 1: Blanche were consolidated to first degree murder. Jury selection for
29:06
Speaker 1: the trial was a bit of a challenge, though, as
29:09
Speaker 1: a case had become a local sensation, everyone in New
29:12
Speaker 1: Haven seemed to have already made their opinions about whether
29:15
Speaker 1: the trio were guilty or innocent, So finding some unbiased
29:19
Speaker 1: individuals was a bit difficult.
29:21
Speaker 2: Yeah.
29:22
Speaker 1: Now, to bolster the case, Jenny's body was exhumed for
29:25
Speaker 1: a second autopsy. This time, pathologists aimed to quantify the
29:30
Speaker 1: arsenic levels a little more precisely. The finding showed only
29:34
Speaker 1: minimal arsenic found in Jenny's bones, which contradicted the defense's
29:40
Speaker 1: claim that she had chronically ingested the substance to enhance
29:43
Speaker 1: her complexion. So basically, what the defense was starting to
29:48
Speaker 1: say was that Jenny was taking the arsenic for her skin.
29:52
Speaker 2: Maybe there was a build up or something.
29:54
Speaker 1: Yeah, and there's a build up. And so basically, now
29:57
Speaker 1: with this second autopsy checking her bone for the arsenic
30:01
Speaker 1: they found minimal, like a little bit in her bones. Now,
30:06
Speaker 1: the reason why this contradicts the defense saying that she
30:08
Speaker 1: ingested it over time is if she did ingest it
30:11
Speaker 1: over time, it would have absorbed into her bones and
30:13
Speaker 1: they would have found more in her bones. Okay, considering
30:17
Speaker 1: the large amount in her system. Right, So they found
30:19
Speaker 1: large amounts in her system and a little in her bones,
30:22
Speaker 1: and if it was cosmetic, it would have been more
30:25
Speaker 1: in her bones and a little in her system.
30:26
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, so kind of proving that it wasn't a
30:29
Speaker 2: build up exactly.
30:31
Speaker 1: Yeah, it basically suggested that Jenny had consumed a significant
30:35
Speaker 1: amount of arsenic before her death instead of this the
30:39
Speaker 1: beauty routine. Basically it ruled out the beauty routine thing.
30:42
Speaker 2: Yeah, because I almost wondered if it could be like
30:44
Speaker 2: a build up too. It did cross my mind.
30:46
Speaker 1: So yeah, Now, I mean, maybe the bones is a
30:48
Speaker 1: bit of build up from cosmetic. Maybe she did have
30:51
Speaker 1: a little bit that she was using once once in
30:52
Speaker 1: a while. Yeah, but if that was the cause of
30:55
Speaker 1: her death, it would have been more in her bones.
30:57
Speaker 2: Right.
30:58
Speaker 1: So where are we here? So yes, I totally lost
31:03
Speaker 1: my spot. Okay, got it?
31:04
Speaker 2: Okay.
31:05
Speaker 1: So the trial captivated the public. Newspapers provided daily updates,
31:09
Speaker 1: and the case became the talk of New Haven. With
31:12
Speaker 1: its mix of wealth, scandal tragedy, it basically seemed like
31:16
Speaker 1: a Victorian era soap opera that was unfolding in real time.
31:19
Speaker 1: The involvement of the Malley family, you know, one of
31:21
Speaker 1: the richest in the area, only heightened the public fascination,
31:25
Speaker 1: particularly since James and Walter were accused alongside Blanche, a
31:29
Speaker 1: woman with a saucy backstory who's tied to a brothel
31:32
Speaker 1: in New York.
31:33
Speaker 2: Yeah.
31:34
Speaker 1: When you put it that way, it literally sounds like
31:36
Speaker 1: a like a soap opera. Yeah.
31:38
Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, I just I do have to say too,
31:40
Speaker 2: like Jenny, after she got in that argument with her mom,
31:44
Speaker 2: you know, maybe you wouldn't have had anywhere else to
31:46
Speaker 2: go other than like James's, right, since they had this
31:49
Speaker 2: like friendship thing going on.
31:51
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's very possible.
31:53
Speaker 2: Oh okay, gosh, this is making me kind of frustrated.
31:58
Speaker 1: Fair enough, it's a frustrating one. But I do have
32:01
Speaker 1: to say this is a very well documented case. I mean,
32:05
Speaker 1: we're talking about something from the eighteen.
32:06
Speaker 2: High Yeah, for that time.
32:07
Speaker 1: Yeah, so when we've done ones from this era before.
32:11
Speaker 1: There's a lot of missing information and stuff that we
32:13
Speaker 1: can't generally pull. There's quite a bit of documentation from
32:16
Speaker 1: this one, so it's quite interesting to actually look back
32:19
Speaker 1: with this level of information.
32:20
Speaker 2: No kidding, Ye, how many.
32:21
Speaker 1: Times did I say information in the last thirty seconds?
32:23
Speaker 2: I don't know. You want to give it a go again, No.
32:25
Speaker 1: I'm good. Okay, Well I will say it one more time.
32:30
Speaker 1: Because the demand for information about this case was so
32:33
Speaker 1: high that booklet detailings of the events were published and
32:36
Speaker 1: sold out almost immediately.
32:39
Speaker 2: Seriously, yes, oh man, people were all up in this business.
32:43
Speaker 1: Yeah. So they basically had like a little leaflet kind
32:45
Speaker 1: of mini newspaper, almost directly solely about this case, and
32:50
Speaker 1: they were selling out immediately. However, rumors spread that the
32:55
Speaker 1: Malle family were actually purchasing all the copies in an
32:59
Speaker 1: effort to press the public knowledge and widespread information.
33:03
Speaker 2: Okay, that's not super far fetched, tachnal. Yeah.
33:07
Speaker 1: So, as the proceedings began, all three defendants, James, Walter
33:11
Speaker 1: and Blanche pled not guilty, maintaining that they had not
33:15
Speaker 1: seen Jenny after Thursday, August the fourth. Now, strangely, several
33:20
Speaker 1: prosecution witnesses who had initially claimed that they saw Jenny
33:23
Speaker 1: with the trio on August fourth and even August fifth
33:26
Speaker 1: began to recant or express doubts about their memories, And
33:30
Speaker 1: of course, these sudden changes in testimony raised questions about
33:32
Speaker 1: whether they were actually being persuaded, influence, paid off, whatever
33:36
Speaker 1: by the fact the Mallee family, right, something we kind
33:39
Speaker 1: of already alluded to now, during the trial, a woman
33:42
Speaker 1: did testify that she had seen all three defendants, James Malley,
33:46
Speaker 1: Walter Malley, and Blanche Douglas together with Jenny Kramer on Thursday,
33:50
Speaker 1: August fourth, so saying they're like, oh, yeah, we haven't
33:52
Speaker 1: seen her since the morning of right, like when she
33:54
Speaker 1: left sort of thing.
33:55
Speaker 2: Someone did stick to their.
33:56
Speaker 1: Guns, someone stuck to their guns and saying, yeah, I
33:59
Speaker 1: saw them on the fourth together. And another witness claimed
34:01
Speaker 1: to have seen Blanche and Jenny quote taking refreshments together
34:06
Speaker 1: that same day, So on the fourth. Now, taking refreshments
34:09
Speaker 1: is an old fashioned phrase, basically someone going out to
34:13
Speaker 1: eat or grab refreshments together, right, like let's go grab
34:15
Speaker 1: a bite, let's go get a drink, Like that's what
34:18
Speaker 1: they're saying. Okay, So another second person stuck to their
34:21
Speaker 1: guns and saying, yeah, I saw Jenny with her out
34:23
Speaker 1: like grabbing a bite. The defense in turn called their
34:27
Speaker 1: own medical expert to the stand in an effort to
34:30
Speaker 1: discredit the prosecution's findings. The expert argued that the conclusions
34:35
Speaker 1: of the autopsy disputing the claim that Jenny had been
34:37
Speaker 1: assaulted before her death, and he also suggested that the
34:40
Speaker 1: amount of arsenic found in her system was consistent with
34:43
Speaker 1: frequent use, casting doubt in the idea that she was
34:46
Speaker 1: poisoned intentionally. So he's saying, nope, it is consistent use.
34:51
Speaker 2: Okay, Yeah.
34:53
Speaker 1: The defense attorney also argued that suicide had not been
34:56
Speaker 1: adequately ruled out. They contended that Jenny may have act
35:00
Speaker 1: taken her own life or drowned accidentally, a possibility that
35:03
Speaker 1: they felt had been overlooked amid the scientific evidence. Now,
35:08
Speaker 1: I do want to say, I think the suicide thing
35:11
Speaker 1: is has actually been ruled out. They've ruled out the
35:14
Speaker 1: water in the lung suicide.
35:16
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, if there's no like, how would she have
35:18
Speaker 2: drowned if there was no water in her lungs.
35:21
Speaker 1: However, it's not ruled out when you consider the fact
35:24
Speaker 1: of maybe she took the arsenic.
35:27
Speaker 2: Okay, I guess so.
35:30
Speaker 1: One of the ways of it is ruled out because
35:32
Speaker 1: she didn't drown, But she could have just taken it herself.
35:35
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean things weren't super great, like within her
35:39
Speaker 2: home life at that time or moment.
35:41
Speaker 1: Yeah. And because of this this perspective, the defense said
35:46
Speaker 1: there's no evidence directly linking the defendants to the ones
35:49
Speaker 1: to being administering it, saying maybe someone else did, or
35:51
Speaker 1: maybe she did of her own free will. Sure, maybe
35:54
Speaker 1: that it's not a cosmetic use in he system. Who's
35:57
Speaker 1: to say that she didn't take it her fucking self.
36:01
Speaker 1: She just maybe got kicked out of her house, you know.
36:04
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, and then didn't have anywhere else to maybe
36:06
Speaker 2: turn to other than this complete asshole. So I don't know,
36:10
Speaker 2: but I don't know. That's tough.
36:13
Speaker 1: Yeah. Now. On June thirtieth, eighteen eighty two, after all
36:17
Speaker 1: the arguments were made, the jury was instructed to deliberate.
36:21
Speaker 1: The judge was clear in his directions the jury's task
36:24
Speaker 1: was to determine whether defendants had killed Jenny Kramer by
36:27
Speaker 1: poisoning her with arsenic. He emphasized that they were not
36:31
Speaker 1: being charged with any other crime. So they were to
36:35
Speaker 1: determine did they kill her with arsenic and yes or no?
36:40
Speaker 2: Yes? No, that's the only options.
36:42
Speaker 1: That's the only options.
36:44
Speaker 2: Hummm okay.
36:45
Speaker 1: With a mix of witness testimonies conflicting each other and
36:48
Speaker 1: much of the evidence being circumstantial, only the jury needed
36:52
Speaker 1: just one hour to reach their verdict. They found all
36:56
Speaker 1: three defendants not guilty.
36:59
Speaker 2: Okay, I was thinking, that's how that was gonna go.
37:02
Speaker 1: Yeah. The aftermath of the trial brought tragedy to Jenny's family.
37:07
Speaker 1: Her father was so devastated by her death that he
37:11
Speaker 1: perceived a failure of the justice system, and so much
37:15
Speaker 1: so that he took his own life even before the
37:17
Speaker 1: trial was over.
37:19
Speaker 2: Shit really, yeah.
37:22
Speaker 1: Losing both him and her daughter. Yeah. Jenny's mother also
37:27
Speaker 1: suffered overwhelming grief, and she later hanged herself.
37:30
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh. Well yeah, I was like, how is
37:33
Speaker 2: this gonna like? The mom is probably already just completely wrecked. Yeah.
37:38
Speaker 2: Oh no.
37:40
Speaker 1: Now, despite the tragedy and the scandal, the Malley family
37:43
Speaker 1: appeared to escape pretty much unscathed. In fact, they threw
37:46
Speaker 1: a very large, lavish party to celebrate the acquittal.
37:50
Speaker 2: Fuck them, I'm pissed with them. I'm done with them.
37:53
Speaker 1: A lot of people actually criticize this party and kind
37:57
Speaker 1: of condemned them, and even the public was writing stories
37:59
Speaker 1: about how that's you don't do that well.
38:01
Speaker 2: Yes, like someone regardless if you got like like away
38:06
Speaker 2: from your charges, someone still like died, yeah, and also
38:09
Speaker 2: like the dad died and stuff at that point too,
38:11
Speaker 2: so like fuck you.
38:12
Speaker 1: And they threw a celebration party.
38:14
Speaker 2: That's terrible. Yeah.
38:16
Speaker 1: Many in New Haven believed that James and Walter had
38:18
Speaker 1: gotten away with murder, but regardless of the public opinion,
38:22
Speaker 1: Edward Malley's business continued to thrive for nearly a century,
38:27
Speaker 1: finally closing in nineteen eighty. As for Walter Mally and
38:31
Speaker 1: Blanche Douglas, their connection persisted after the trial. Eventually, Walter
38:36
Speaker 1: married a woman by the name of Anna Madden, though
38:39
Speaker 1: though many believed that Anna was actually Blanched living under
38:43
Speaker 1: yet another assumed name. To this day, the mysterious death
38:48
Speaker 1: of Jenny Kramer, the Belle of New Haven, remains unsolved.
38:53
Speaker 1: The exact circumstances of her death are just unknown, leaving
38:56
Speaker 1: it to one of Connecticut's most haunted historical mysteries to
39:01
Speaker 1: this day. Even if people do believe they know who
39:05
Speaker 1: did it or not. And that's the story of Jenny Kramer,
39:09
Speaker 1: the belle of New Haven's.
39:10
Speaker 2: So they're believing that it's James. I'm curious why everyone
39:15
Speaker 2: thinks it's both of them.
39:16
Speaker 1: Hey, well, both of them were most likely involved. I mean,
39:20
Speaker 1: Jenny never really went out without James, and it seems
39:23
Speaker 1: like James was implicated and trying to get them together
39:26
Speaker 1: too mean Walter though, or sorry Walter, Yeah sorry, yeah, Walter.
39:31
Speaker 1: James never went out with his cother cousin Walter, and
39:33
Speaker 1: Walter was trying to get James. Yeah, sorry, I.
39:35
Speaker 2: Guess trying to help. Yeah. Oh my gosh. This just
39:40
Speaker 2: that just seems so devastating. And it's also just devastating
39:45
Speaker 2: that they didn't. I don't know. I mean, there's the
39:47
Speaker 2: chance it wasn't them, but I don't think she took
39:52
Speaker 2: her own life.
39:52
Speaker 1: I don't think so either. I don't think so whatsoever.
39:57
Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure it's I'm pretty sure we know exactly
40:00
Speaker 1: who did it. Someone who yeah, who wants her and
40:05
Speaker 1: couldn't have her and and attacked her and then got
40:12
Speaker 1: rid of her.
40:13
Speaker 2: Yeah well oh okay, but then so he had attacked
40:19
Speaker 2: her twice that we knew of, right, basic kind of yes,
40:25
Speaker 2: and then there's probably a third and maybe it really
40:27
Speaker 2: didn't go well exactly.
40:29
Speaker 1: And now the details about those two quote attacks, we
40:35
Speaker 1: don't know. She's screaming like don't and stuff, and she's
40:39
Speaker 1: clearly not happy, but we don't know what's going on
40:42
Speaker 1: other than her screaming and being forced into a room.
40:48
Speaker 2: Oh gosh, okay, dang. And then I just feel like
40:54
Speaker 2: the mom is probably just was just like, you know,
40:58
Speaker 2: how feeling like how could you she've done something differently
41:01
Speaker 2: or whatever? Right, Like if if she had like you're
41:04
Speaker 2: just staying home, like I'm locking you in your room
41:06
Speaker 2: or whatever, she was a grown ass woman, so.
41:09
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, you can't do that. She was trying to
41:12
Speaker 1: keep her broader safe, not physically but also from like
41:15
Speaker 1: the malice of the public, but she couldn't.
41:20
Speaker 2: I wonder how she had felt about this Dreames guy.
41:24
Speaker 1: You know, I don't know hard to say.
41:27
Speaker 2: Huh, well that's shit, that sucks.
41:29
Speaker 1: Well, that's shit.
41:31
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's real shitty, because like she this like Jenny
41:34
Speaker 2: could have gone on to just have like such a
41:36
Speaker 2: beautiful life.
41:37
Speaker 1: Yeah. I do like the contrast in like the different
41:41
Speaker 1: centuries though, too, because it's like, this is Jenny the
41:45
Speaker 1: Bell of the Ball, and then you like, go, I
41:47
Speaker 1: know it's not modern because it's an older song, but
41:50
Speaker 1: then you got like Jenny from the Block. You know,
41:52
Speaker 1: it's like it just shows how times have changed.
41:56
Speaker 2: Right, I guess I never correlated those two, No, I did,
42:02
Speaker 2: Like immediately you're so you're just like in there research
42:05
Speaker 2: and singing Jenny from the Black. I'm still Jenny from.
42:09
Speaker 1: A little at Yeah, good to know. Sorry, hopefully you
42:17
Speaker 1: guys enjoyed this case. Yeah, it was a little bit
42:19
Speaker 1: different going back in time. We haven't done that for
42:21
Speaker 1: a while, like Nicole said, but yeah, hopefully enjoy that.
42:24
Speaker 1: If you guys want to check out, like I said,
42:26
Speaker 1: that song under the elms, I'll play a little snippet
42:31
Speaker 1: here right at the end for you guys. But if
42:32
Speaker 1: you want to hear the whole track, maybe the sheet music,
42:35
Speaker 1: it's going to be in the description of this podcast.
42:36
Speaker 1: You can check it out. And yeah, hopefully you maybe
42:39
Speaker 1: check out some of our other links too, maybe a
42:42
Speaker 1: Patreon or Instagram or YouTube. I don't know why I
42:44
Speaker 1: got the axon on me all of a sudden, but
42:46
Speaker 1: I do, and Uh. Yeah, we're an indie produced podcast.
42:50
Speaker 1: We yeh, don't have a big company pulling the strings.
42:53
Speaker 1: It's us we do this. So your port is your port.
42:57
Speaker 1: Your support is greatly appreciated.
43:01
Speaker 2: It is.
43:01
Speaker 1: And Nicole, I caught you on a in the middle
43:03
Speaker 1: of a yawn. Well was my story that boring?
43:06
Speaker 2: No, it wasn't. It wasn't boring at all. I'm just like,
43:09
Speaker 2: I don't know. The holidays, you know, I'm going to
43:11
Speaker 2: catch up on some sleep. Didn't you get enough sleep
43:14
Speaker 2: during the holidays some nights, I guess some nights. Yeah,
43:18
Speaker 2: I don't know. I don't know. I need like some
43:21
Speaker 2: sun or something, maybe like a vacation, like a holl vacation.
43:25
Speaker 2: I see, this isn't going to be happening.
43:27
Speaker 1: Winter's getting to you.
43:29
Speaker 2: It's a winter blues eh. Yeah, but no, no, I
43:32
Speaker 2: actually thought this was really interesting. Yeah, well hopefully you
43:34
Speaker 2: guys enjoyed it too, but also very frustrating. I wanted
43:38
Speaker 2: to say that too.
43:38
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, So what's going to happen is, uh, I'm
43:41
Speaker 1: going to do a little like play out, and then
43:44
Speaker 1: Nicole's going to say stay wicked, and instead of our
43:46
Speaker 1: regular music, I'm going to play a little bit of
43:49
Speaker 1: this for you. Sounds good, okay, so here we go.
43:52
Speaker 1: Get ready okay, Well, thank you for being here, hopefully
43:55
Speaker 1: enjoyed that, and until next
43:57
Speaker 2: Time, stay wicked.