Latest / Conservation Stories / Protecting Cotton: Research, Pests, and Practical Solutions

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Protecting Cotton: Research, Pests, and Practical Solutions · Conservation Stories

• 0:00
  Speaker A: Foreign. Welcome back to another episode of Conservation Stories. Conservation Stories is a podcast brought to you by the Sand Hill Area Research association, or sara. And you know, if you've been listening at any time that we love to have people on that are doing research and making changes in our area and bringing about new ideas. And that is why we have asked Mr. Carrie Sders to be here with us. And Carrie is the manager of the Barker Research Farm, which is an exciting project that I've been wanting to learn more about. But let's start, Carrie, with you giving us a little bit of your background, kind of tell us where you're from. Did you grow up in ag and those kind of things.
• 0:52
  Speaker B: I don't want to correct you, but although I do kind of oversee a lot of the Barker farm, I'm, I'm, I have many other hats. Well, it is the primary hat is extension program specialist for seven counties.
• 1:06
  Speaker A: Okay. Well, it is totally okay to correct me because I'm often wrong.
• 1:11
  Speaker B: But, you know, I do. I'm kind of the doorkeeper at the Barker Research Farm. So if somebody wants to do a project out there, they usually pick up the phone and, and call me. And the reason being in the fall of 22, and I'll get back to your question on some of my background. But on the Barker, in I think it was November of 22, Ms. Dolly Barker called me and said, hey, the home place here where I live, I'd like to make it available to you Kerry Siders to do research. And I thought, oh, my goodness, that's a big farm. I mean, that's a couple hundred acres. And I'd love to do justice to the old farm. But I said, would you allow me to invite others, particularly, you know, A and M research and extension folks to also do some projects out here? And of course, we end up inviting some folks from West Texas, A and M, and of course, my son was going to school there at that time, and other entities, of course, the, the water district and, you know, many other entities to be involved in that. And so that obviously, you know, I've been with extension for over 30 years, so I know the more partners, as you well know, that you have involved, the stronger the work that's produced. To your question about some of my background, I grew up down the Rio Grande Valley in McAllen, and my dad was in ag research for a major chemical company. And, and so I grew up not commercial farming, but around particularly research and, and that side of things. And so that's what piqued my interest As I went through my undergraduate down which now is part of the A and M system, Kingsville, it was Texas A and I at that time and then went on to graduate school at Texas Tech. And so you know, hate to say this but A and M might be in a world of hurt if it wasn't for Texas Tech in this part of the world. That's a true statement. I think there's a lot of us that were framed that went through the tech system and really in the field we work extremely well. A lot of folks look at that from the standpoint of sports or history of sports.
• 3:26
  Speaker A: Right, right. Well and you know when you're, you're the. What I've found is the. Those folks that are doing the day to day research and interacting, they. They're partners then they know it. You know. And so it's when you. Because you're not involved in the politics of all of that and really makes things can happen.
• 3:45
  Speaker B: And I'll back up on the, on the Barker farm. Of course tech plays an important role out there as well. So finished my graduate studies at Texas Tech in weed science under Wayne Keeling. And of course Wayne is known for his work in weed science but also systems work. A lot of the, you know, rotation work, a lot of the original work here on the high Plains was from a lot of Wayne Keeling's work from not only in the Lubbock area but also halfway and lamisa a lot of that down with Berkey Slaughter down in the Wellman area.
• 4:22
  Speaker A: Oh yeah. Oh yeah.
• 4:23
  Speaker B: So you know, a lot of that work and that was one of my graduate projects was trying to to utilize minimum tillage with some of the conventional herbicides at time for, you know, for good weed control which is a limiting factor on minimum till. In fact the name of it was incorporation of yellow dinitroanil and herbicides in minimum foliage cotton. And we were using at that time it was a bush hog rottill unit. It had a ripper shank that had a rolling basket in the back and we would spray a yellow herbicide. Of course this was in some wheat residue and. And so we were incorporating yellow right in the. The plant row. Where is this?
• 5:07
  Speaker A: Be like mid-80s, early 90s.
• 5:09
  Speaker B: It was late 80s. I was at tech at 87 through 89. So that's when a lot of that there was, you know, Berkey Slaughter. And so those folks were working on similar projects like that down in that Wellmanarians scattered throughout the High Plains. But that was some of the very first Research.
• 5:29
  Speaker A: My. My husband's uncle. My uncle by extension. I hate to admit this. Barry Sims.
• 5:37
  Speaker B: Okay.
• 5:38
  Speaker A: I remember that when I first heard about him, I actually did like a little stint at the usda, which was not called the FSA at that time. It was called. What was it called before we called it Farm Service Agency. I don't remember.
• 5:52
  Speaker B: I know it. But it's there.
• 5:54
  Speaker A: It'll come to us in a little disaster. You know, set a little section there where in time when they needed extra help. And I remember seeing his. The map of his place and he was farming in trash is what people were calling it.
• 6:10
  Speaker B: Yeah, that's that. Yeah, that's. That was the kind of the, the reputation of, you know, even letting some of the weeds go because they weren't necessarily an economic problem at certain points.
• 6:22
  Speaker A: Right.
• 6:22
  Speaker B: The crop made. Now, you know, I didn't grow up that way because you saw one. One pigweed or one particularly, you know, dad would. There was a cockleburger out in the field. You got out. It didn't matter if you were going to church. You get that.
• 6:36
  Speaker A: We've told this story several times, but my brother, his first farm that he, he was leasing was my. My grandmother's very good friend and neighbor. And I think it was maybe 40 acres right there by their house. And he came out one day at lunch and my grandmother was out there hoeing.
• 6:56
  Speaker B: Probably in her apron and. Yes, yeah.
• 6:58
  Speaker A: Yes, yes.
• 6:59
  Speaker B: So, yeah, that's, you know, that motivated.
• 7:02
  Speaker A: Him to keep a clean field.
• 7:03
  Speaker B: Sure. And that's a mindset that we've had for. For many years. Of course, economics have kind of changed our mindset on that, that there's a certain amount that we can tolerate after. Tolerate after a certain period and usually after those first 40 days. So, you know, that's kind of where I've. I cut my teeth. You know, I had a love for research but. And, and education, but I wasn't really designed for classroom teaching, even though I.
• 7:30
  Speaker A: Gave that applied education out in the field is. Is really what. What agri life sure is. I mean, that's the purpose. And the point is, you know. Yeah, you might have a classroom session on something at the extension station, but mostly it's going to be a phone call from a producer or somebody else is going to get a, you know, phone used to be, you know.
• 7:56
  Speaker B: Oh, yeah, no, it still. I mean, I had to put my phone on silence because it. Even though it's, you know, mid December and harvest is practically done, these guys are thinking about Plan A B and C for 26 already.
• 8:09
  Speaker A: So tell us, how many counties is that, that you're in? Which counties are they?
• 8:13
  Speaker B: Well, so currently I service seven counties. But in this current position as an extension program specialist, that just changed in September. Just prior to that point, we were agents. We were assigned to the district. So I was. I'm officed out of Levelland in Hockley.
• 8:37
  Speaker A: So you have a new name. Do the same thing.
• 8:40
  Speaker B: Same thing. That often happens. But. So Hockley and Cochrane were the original two counties that I started in. Now I have. I started actually in Dimmitt in Castro county years. That was my first appointment. Castro and Lamb in 1990. And then Floyd County 92 to 94. And then Terry county from, oh, the LATTER Part of 94 through the end of about October 96.
• 9:10
  Speaker A: So you were there when my husband and I were farming?
• 9:12
  Speaker B: Probably so.
• 9:13
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 9:13
  Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. I still have quite a few contacts down in that.
• 9:17
  Speaker A: Yeah, we were like, down there back in that kind of like loop and Wellman and we were kind of like right in there.
• 9:23
  Speaker B: Okay.
• 9:24
  Speaker A: By, you know, nobody, Nothing.
• 9:28
  Speaker B: Well, you're. Yeah, it's pretty.
• 9:29
  Speaker A: We were pretty much right on the Gaines county line.
• 9:31
  Speaker B: Sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's good country, but there's. It's.
• 9:34
  Speaker A: Oh, it was the Sahara Desert. We farmed there. It hadn't rained in 18 months. We wound up moving north. And I've got a picture of my son on a tricycle. And as far as you can see, it's just brown. Like, I mean, as far as you can see and then blue sky.
• 9:52
  Speaker B: Right.
• 9:52
  Speaker A: You know, and I just remember, oh.
• 9:56
  Speaker B: My goodness, that's called population control. You know, that people. I'll tell you, places like that.
• 10:03
  Speaker A: That is the truth. That is the truth. And thank goodness Barry was farming in trash or my house. I mean, we did get covered up in sand.
• 10:10
  Speaker B: Oh, yeah.
• 10:10
  Speaker A: But it wasn't. It wasn't. We were on berries, you know, and now I look back and I'm really grateful.
• 10:16
  Speaker B: Sure.
• 10:17
  Speaker A: Because it could have been much worse.
• 10:19
  Speaker B: Yeah. Repeat of the. The Dust bowl days. You know, there's times we think we're pretty close to that already.
• 10:25
  Speaker A: Does feel like it sometimes, doesn't it? Yeah.
• 10:28
  Speaker B: But I was county agent in Floyd and Terry county. And I came back to the extension agent IPM position when I moved to Levelland. And originally it was Hockley and Cochrane county. And then, oh, in the early 2000s, they added Lamb county to that. And then here just in September, even though I'll continue to do basically the same thing in Hockley Cochrane and Lamb counties. I'll be available for programming in Lubbock, Crosby, Lynn and Garza counties.
• 11:01
  Speaker A: Oh my goodness. They're sending you east?
• 11:03
  Speaker B: Sure. Yeah.
• 11:04
  Speaker A: Oh, now that's, that's really. I mean, you're gonna have quite a.
• 11:07
  Speaker B: There'S quite a diversity of production, really.
• 11:09
  Speaker A: There is, yeah.
• 11:10
  Speaker B: So, but from an entomological standpoint, and that's my area. I mean, ipm, we get mostly, you know, insect type questions, so.
• 11:19
  Speaker A: IPM for people that don't know what it is.
• 11:21
  Speaker B: Yeah. Integrated Pest Management.
• 11:22
  Speaker A: Pest Management for people that it's bugs.
• 11:25
  Speaker B: That's right. Well, that's true. I mean most, when you say pests, most people, their mind goes to insects.
• 11:31
  Speaker A: Yeah, that's true.
• 11:31
  Speaker B: But that does take in weeds and diseases.
• 11:34
  Speaker A: It's like saying pesticides are actually herbicides and pesticides are two categories, but a lot of times we put them all under one.
• 11:41
  Speaker B: Yeah. And even fungicides that, that deal.
• 11:43
  Speaker A: Sure.
• 11:44
  Speaker B: With pathogens. So with a weed science background, I mean, it's kind of unusual that I'm now a part of the entomology department department. But the IPM program through the years has seen fit to bring in some of us, you know, pathology people and weed science people, agronomists into the program to, you know, kind of beef up this IPM program at the entomology department at A and M has. And, and so that's, I'm, I'm kind of the weed guy amongst the group. And we, we've got a couple others that have both weed science.
• 12:17
  Speaker A: And we had doctor Dot Tre here not too long ago.
• 12:20
  Speaker B: Of course, he's not part of the entomology department. He's.
• 12:23
  Speaker A: Oh, that's right. But he will, oh my gosh.
• 12:25
  Speaker B: Of course he has a joint appointment with both A and M and Texas. Texas. So we're solely Texas A and M. Okay. But yeah, Pete's a good friend and we, we lean on him heavily for our weed science and weed control and just all, all things weeds. He's, he's our go to guy there. But so, you know, it is a pretty diverse area. But, but when you look at the, you know, I spend most 90% of my time in cotton production. I do, of course, deal with peanuts and grain, sorghum and even corn and all things in between from sunflowers to, you know, black eyed peas, you name it a little bit with homeowners, of course we get calls from homeowners, but yes. And I love dealing with kids, you know, so we, we try to help out when when the counties have their ag awareness type events for kids, I try to, yes. You know, help Terry County, Gaines County. Sure. They all, most of them have some kind of an egg awareness event for particularly the fourth grade age. That's a. I don't think we have.
• 13:31
  Speaker A: Anything here in Lubbock. We need to have something.
• 13:33
  Speaker B: They used to, it was a. Yeah. Like kids, cows and more at, during. I don't think it was necessarily doing during the fair, but they. Yeah, of course.
• 13:41
  Speaker A: That would be such a great time to have something.
• 13:43
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 13:43
  Speaker A: But I, I keep saying we need to have a farm tour in Lubbock. Like, I think it'd be great to have our urban neighbors.
• 13:49
  Speaker B: Yes.
• 13:49
  Speaker A: Be able to go out and see what I mean. Because I think they're not probably aware of the, the enormous impact that ag has on their, the economy of Lubbock and how that impacts their day to day life.
• 14:02
  Speaker B: Right.
• 14:03
  Speaker A: How many restaurants are going to be open?
• 14:04
  Speaker B: Sure. Yeah. Yeah. How many dollars roll through the economy. Yeah. And so, you know, at one time we had the farm show out on the east side of town, but I'm not sure if something like that could be resurrected. But it, there is a need for that type of education, not just for the choir, the. Those that are involved day to day in agriculture, but those that, others that really need to be aware, especially kids, because those will be voters someday that need to be aware of what's going on as they grow up here. They most likely won't stay here all their life. And so if they move off to wherever it may be, they've, they have an appreciation for what we, you know, drives our economy.
• 14:49
  Speaker A: Well, when we were in Terry county, there was a family on that tour. They had three kids and they, you know, were living Brownfield. They've been there. I think that was their second year to go on the tour and, and I think there's a lot of people, I think in Lubbock that would, would also be willing to want to take advantage of that.
• 15:06
  Speaker B: You bet. Yeah. It's a, that's an important thing. And I've tried to help out as much as I can when it comes to crops and conservation and all the things that from actual production standpoint, not just the fun things that kids. Oh, let's go pet some animals or something like that. I'd like them to actually put, put some hands on some, you know, cotton bowls and.
• 15:29
  Speaker A: Absolutely.
• 15:29
  Speaker B: And see what, what. I think there's a really amazing story that even their teachers get wide eyed and kind of like I had no Idea.
• 15:37
  Speaker A: Well, no wonder too, you do have the fiber max now and, and there's a, you know, I know that kids are coming in through there and so wonder if that's kind of replaced that need in Levitt county, maybe.
• 15:49
  Speaker B: Well, probably so. Yeah. I think as long as it's being utilized and families, you know, even when they've got some free time should, should really take advantage of those things.
• 15:58
  Speaker A: Absolutely, absolutely. And I know they do bring kids in there and now what they've done there, adding that children's wing.
• 16:04
  Speaker B: Sure.
• 16:05
  Speaker A: It is phenomenal.
• 16:07
  Speaker B: You bet.
• 16:07
  Speaker A: Phenomenal. If people haven't been out there to the fibermax center for Discovery.
• 16:11
  Speaker B: Right.
• 16:12
  Speaker A: Go and take your kids.
• 16:13
  Speaker B: You bet. You bet.
• 16:14
  Speaker A: It's amazing. I'm not, I'm not sure if that wing is open yet or not, but it would be working shortly. Yeah.
• 16:20
  Speaker B: Yes, that's right. So that's, you know, from an educational standpoint, of course we get the, you know, the emergency calls, you know, this pass or that pest. But, but I think from an education standpoint, when we're dealing with both general clientele and youth, that's something that we really try to.
• 16:38
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 16:38
  Speaker B: Make folks aware of as well.
• 16:40
  Speaker A: So, so what kind of, what kind of questions are you getting right now? People are getting ready for, for next year? They're thinking about it.
• 16:49
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 16:50
  Speaker A: And I've, I mean I've heard, in fact I heard yesterday a friend of mine that said just three neighbors around him, her that she said I opened the sale paper so I didn't know. So they're, you know, they're at an auction right now and so they're, you know, and so that's, you know, an ongoing, probably going to be ongoing through the spring and. No doubt.
• 17:13
  Speaker B: No doubt.
• 17:13
  Speaker A: And I mean we've got some funds coming in to help people, but just for people to understand that like even though it's valuable and appreciated, there's a limit to how much farmers, you know, can receive. And for the vast majority of farmers, that money will go directly to the bank.
• 17:33
  Speaker B: Right.
• 17:33
  Speaker A: To pay for, to pay for commitments. And when you have maybe a million dollar operating budget every year, $150,000, you know, even though I understand, you know, but it's, it's a drop in the bucket for really.
• 17:52
  Speaker B: Well, most of my conversations, you know, revolve around the agronomics and the pest and the things of that nature. But you know, as an example, we had a meeting in Littlefield on Tuesday and my discussion revolved around three pests that I wanted them to really be thinking about. Number one was wireworms, number two was the corn leaf hopper and third was a new one, the cotton jazzed. Yeah, it's a, it's a, it's a leaf hopper that's been identified down in the Rio Grande valley and along the coastal bend. It's, it's, it's very new and it's not been identified up here. But you know, so we talk about these new pests and you know, and if it, if it plays out the way it could, I mean we're talking about an additional one, possibly four applications of an insecticide that, you know, could cost anywhere from 10 to $20 per an application. Well, that blows.
• 18:52
  Speaker A: That means per acre. Per acre. Yes, sure. Yes.
• 18:56
  Speaker B: Yeah. Let's say if it is $10, that's perfect. Per application. Per. Per acre. Yeah. So multiply that by you know, a field that's a, you know, just one field of 120 acres. So.
• 19:07
  Speaker A: Well, when you're already like at almost, I mean generally at prices the way they are, you're either like man, if, if I can just cover the cost of production, that, that'd be great. Well that puts you.
• 19:21
  Speaker B: Oh well, yeah, that just digs the hole that much deeper.
• 19:24
  Speaker A: So this bug. Say the name again.
• 19:26
  Speaker B: Cotton Jazz.
• 19:27
  Speaker A: It.
• 19:28
  Speaker B: And that's kind of the short version. There's actually. Yeah, there's a, it's the two spot cotton leaf hopper. And so instead it's all those words. It's a, it originated out of the portions of Africa and Asia and it's, it's nothing new to them. That's, that's probably their number one. Particularly in the Asian countries that produce cotton, it's their number one cotton pest.
• 19:54
  Speaker A: So how do new. This is, you know, not a scientist. How do these new insects, how are they getting. Are they coming on transport like as we're like they're just all the above hitchhiking above.
• 20:08
  Speaker B: I, I would say that. So right now we've got. So in Texas, the cotton jazz was first noted mid-1920. 25. The Southeast United States, particularly cotton production areas dealt with it. You know it hit their pocketbook in this last growing season. But it, it was noted in Florida November of 24. But it is, it has been noted in Texas primarily in big box nursery locations. Hibiscus. So we're talking about an insect. You know, it's one of those pests that have multiple hosts. And so when the transport of landscape plants move from wherever, Georgia or Florida and they move into Texas, they bring in, they're Supposed to.
• 21:06
  Speaker A: But they're. Yeah, they're supposed to be inspected. But also you can't inspect every one of them. No.
• 21:11
  Speaker B: And some of those are not regulated yet. They're so new that they. There's no regulation form. So a lot of that kind of slips through the cracks until it elevates to a point and it's now at that point.
• 21:22
  Speaker A: So I think this is a great place to stop and make note of the fact that we have a system in the country.
• 21:32
  Speaker B: No doubt through.
• 21:33
  Speaker A: It's through like extension is how we get the information out. But if we didn't have this, that this is very important.
• 21:42
  Speaker B: No doubt this could be the.
• 21:44
  Speaker A: This is important for us to catch these insects at and to think about how early on we're catching them.
• 21:50
  Speaker B: No doubt it's not here yet.
• 21:52
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 21:52
  Speaker B: That's amazing. And identification is critical. And the unique thing about this particular leaf hopper, leafhoppers are not unusual. There are several species out there. As an entomologist, I typically ignore a many species. Now the corn leaf hopper is also one of those hoppers that we have learned to pay attention to in corn this cotton jazz. And we will, if we start finding unusually looking with these two black spots on their wings as adults, you know that's going to raise the red flag real quick. And so, you know, we've got to train the consultants and field people that are out there to identify this thing.
• 22:35
  Speaker A: I'm not trying to see if we can find picture and post it like when we can add it to the.
• 22:39
  Speaker B: Yeah. Cotton jazz.
• 22:40
  Speaker A: It.
• 22:40
  Speaker B: It should be a fairly common.
• 22:42
  Speaker A: How do you spell that last?
• 22:43
  Speaker B: The last J A S S I D. Yeah, yeah. And that's a, that's a common name for leaf hoppers, but it's the cotton jazz. And so. Okay. And it's, you know, it's, you know the. And I don't want to confuse the two. The corn leaf hopper, which I mentioned while ago, through its feeding it transmits a disease which is known as red red stunt disease and it discolors the plant takes on this red color. And in fact, Dr. Pat Porter and Dr. Suhas Vahari did some studies here in Lubbock this last summer where the corn leaf hopper reduced yield by near 70%. It's a devastating insect, but it's because of a disease on the cotton jazzed this one that impacts cotton, its feeding damage. It doesn't transmit a pathogen, but its feeding damage is significant enough that it actually looks like something like Verticillium wilt, which I think most Producers are very familiar with.
• 23:53
  Speaker A: So it eats it.
• 23:55
  Speaker B: Oh, it eats it. And it results in this wilting symptoms. A lot of times it's a common entomological term is hopper burn. And over the course, you know, if it's a severe infestation, 10 to 14 days after infestation can cause complete defoliation of a field. So, you know, you lose the leaves, you lose the, the source, which is, you know, supplying the energy to product, to produce cotton bolts. And so it's one that's, you know, I don't want to alarm anybody. The first thing is identification. And yes, to your point about, you know, that's. We got, we do have a great system and extension is education, but we're also boots on the ground to help producers and consultants help with the identification and the scouting and all the things that go along with that system that.
• 24:50
  Speaker A: We'Re runs across the United States.
• 24:53
  Speaker B: Mostly there's, there's some gaps, no doubt, you know, and I think most of the cotton states, the cotton belt into, you know, extension and research are fairly intact. There's some other northern states that may not. They've kind of lost some.
• 25:10
  Speaker A: Well, you look at places where this, that AG is just not a primary driver there, right? A lot of, A lot of times, I'm sure.
• 25:18
  Speaker B: Well, in some, you know, particular, like in the corn belt, you know, where you have mostly corn or soybeans, I think there's maybe a thought that maybe industry can replace some of that. And, and I think they're doing a fair job. But to me, Agrillo fill in the.
• 25:39
  Speaker A: Gaps and that's me. AgriLife is intended, though AgriLife should be neutral.
• 25:45
  Speaker B: Well, we are. Yeah. That's the thing. We don't, we don't really have a dog in the fight. I mean, you know, we, we want producers to, you know, be sustainable, you know, be in business for many years. But we, I, if somebody asked me for a recommendation, whatever it is, whether it's control weeds and, or control insects, I'm going to give them a long list I don't have.
• 26:07
  Speaker A: Yeah, yeah.
• 26:08
  Speaker B: If they say, well, which one may be slightly better? I'll try to maybe narrow it down a little bit, but I don't know, I can't legally, I can't do that.
• 26:17
  Speaker A: Right. You can't recommend one specific thing.
• 26:20
  Speaker B: But now if there's only one that does the job, then sure, we can do that. So, no, we're not biased and we always keep an eye on economics. Which one is the most affordable but also which is the most effective and also has from an environmental standpoint. So I think it's, you know, I mentioned wire worms earlier and you know, we've been through a period where we've, you know, you know, your days back in Terry county, that's where I was at when the boll weevil hit.
• 26:58
  Speaker A: Oh yeah.
• 26:58
  Speaker B: And you know, the 95, 96 period. And so ever since boll weevil, you know, insecticide use has changed quite a bit. Of course, you know, you know we have technologies whether it's you know, BT cottons we have thrive on for thrips. We have, you know, technologies that have, you know, kind of lightened the load in terms of insect issues. But insecticides have also become very specific, very targeted and rightly so. They protect the beneficials. We're not using harsh insecticides like we were back in the days when bowworms were bad. We were using pyrethroids and, and even to some extent aldicarb, you know used to most producers on irrigated land were using timic.
• 27:48
  Speaker A: Oh my gosh, great product. But yeah, I have a sibling who nearly that was a scary chemical.
• 27:57
  Speaker B: Great product. But it has some baggage, you know, in terms of you know, some dangers and, and we still have some out of car products out there that we use. But that's one of those that we have to be extremely careful with.
• 28:09
  Speaker A: Oh my goodness.
• 28:10
  Speaker B: But the point being they were very non selective and you know, even though we were using it maybe for a particular pest, it took care of a lot of other things and it even reduced some of the beneficial. So we've kind of gotten away from that.
• 28:25
  Speaker A: Right. Well and I think that's an important thing to discuss too is just how, how, how much pesticide use has decreased. I know that, that I we, I think it was with Dr. Do was here we were discussing, I know that there was this cotton report, you know, dirty cotton report put out about, you know, and I had you know, someone say your area's, you know, terrible. And I was like well and then I'm thinking wait a second. Like I remember growing up like it is if you first of all too like that information isn't like readily available. So whatever's in that report, I'm like how accurate is that? But that second too, I'm like also compared to what?
• 29:07
  Speaker B: Right?
• 29:08
  Speaker A: And so when you start, you know, people who are working and list their they're hearing you, they're concerned and farmers are concerned about the same things that other people are concerned about about the environment. They're hearing you, they're working to do better because they don't want to hurt themselves or their land or bees or. Right. And then you go after them.
• 29:32
  Speaker B: Right. Yeah.
• 29:34
  Speaker A: You're just, it's. Yeah, sure, things need to change. But I wonder sometimes, like, can't we figure out how to dig in and to the positives.
• 29:45
  Speaker B: Sure.
• 29:46
  Speaker A: And use that well, and I think.
• 29:48
  Speaker B: We'Ve lost some institutional memory to somebody like me that, you know, remembers what it was like in the early 90s when we were using a lot of pyrethroids. And pyrethroids have their place. We still have, but we don't use them like we used to. They're very limited in their use.
• 30:03
  Speaker A: Right. But. But when you need it, you need it.
• 30:05
  Speaker B: Well, sure. Yeah. I mean, so I guess my point too, since we've backed off using some of those harsher chemistry, chemistries are very specific. Again, whether it's weeds or insecticides, what's come with that is some unintended consequences. And so wire worms, as an example, is one of those where, you know, where we used to use pyrethroids or even timic. We were taking out the adults, we were taking out the larva in the soil. And since we were not using those insecticides or, well, pesticides in general, those that particular pest has now been elevated to a primary, not a secondary or an occasional pest. Now it's a real problem. Point two on that is I don't think that we could say that on these leaf hoppers. Those are, those are not an unintended consequence of backing off. These are, I think, really new. Well, yeah, this is something that's been moved in here. So.
• 31:05
  Speaker A: So for people to understand, cotton is in the hibiscus family.
• 31:09
  Speaker B: It is a malabace. Yeah. Well, just, just like okra. Okra, exactly. And, and in fact, okra is probably, probably the, you know, if you've got a backyard garden, you're probably going to pick up these cotton jazzards there first. And it can be devastating. You'll know pretty quick if you've got interesting cotton jazz. It. In fact, I think even like in Florida, where they have some okra production, that's been the biggest problem. They also love chilies. And I know we're, you know, here in our own backyard, we've got, we.
• 31:40
  Speaker A: Have chili commercial production, production of chilies. So that's another thing we have, you.
• 31:44
  Speaker B: Know, so the nursery industry, I think, you know, I think it's going to be important, even like our master gardener program within extension, to alert them of you know, keeping an eye on some of these situations where this cotton jazz will come out.
• 31:58
  Speaker A: Yeah. And I mean, that's why I think extension the network that's here. And I'm always talking about, I mean, it's not perfect. It's not perfect, but it's there and it's there for people to take advantage of. And a lot of people don't know about it.
• 32:15
  Speaker B: Sure.
• 32:16
  Speaker A: You know, and so I.
• 32:17
  Speaker B: Well, it's a living library. I mean, it's such a good way to put it. And you can, you know, call us and I may not be able to answer the question immediately, but we have the resources like a library, the old school library. Not just Google it, but an unbiased way to, you know, eventually get your answer for, for most questions, even for homeowners and, and something like this.
• 32:43
  Speaker A: Interesting. AgriLife needs a little chat GTP with its own data in it so that you can like give an app to a farmer and you know, because you guys are not going to be here forever.
• 32:54
  Speaker B: No. And I mentioned, you know, that institutional memory and.
• 32:58
  Speaker A: That's exactly right.
• 32:59
  Speaker B: You lose some of that perspective. To put these things again, in perspective of how that. The reason why we're dealing with that today, you know, because we've, we've taken care of the boll weevil program problem. We've taken care of even the, the bow worms that we used to deal with in cotton. Well, the technology. And everybody complains about, you know, bioengineered. Yeah. And GMOs are, you know, kind of a bad term. But, but that's caused us to reduce the amount of, you know, pyrethroids and some of the other things that have greater consequences.
• 33:37
  Speaker A: Exactly. And it's come with its own unintended consequences socially. It has, has had some, you know, struggles, you know, drift and that kind of stuff. But you, you know, every decision has consequences and some of them, you just don't know what they're going to be. But the, the problem comes when you aren't willing to deal with them. Right. And talk about them and say, yeah, this is an unintended consequence, but the good is outweighing the bad here.
• 34:04
  Speaker B: That's exactly right.
• 34:04
  Speaker A: So let's figure out how we can continue to make improvements in this innovation to that, you know.
• 34:11
  Speaker B: That's right. And I think, you know, as a. Within our own. In fact, that was a meeting that I walked out of an hour or so ago was we were reviewing some of the science from 25 and, and, you know, helping each other, you Know for. With presentations that'll come up between now and March, talking about cotton, jazz it and sharing that, that you know, all that information within house that. So that when questions come up of, you know, why are we dealing with this pest that we're aware we don't want to point the finger squarely at, you know, the big box, you know, nursery stores and places like that. There's other means but that is right now the primary source of spread. And so you know what, you know, to alert homeowners, to alert landscapers, to, you know, those folks to be aware.
• 35:07
  Speaker A: Of what this in my backyard.
• 35:08
  Speaker B: Yeah, be watching those things because that will then help the, the agriculture side or the general production cotton and even gardeners. So it's all intertwined. But you've got to know those things in order to be able to apply it to all those areas.
• 35:30
  Speaker A: Exactly. So let's circle back to Dolly's place. Dolly, I met her like 20. 20 ish, 19 ish, something like that. And have always just thought a lot of her, really a lot of respect for her. And then that hearing that she was doing this was just wow.
• 35:49
  Speaker B: Yeah, it's an awesome thing that she.
• 35:50
  Speaker A: It is. Do we have. I know we have a place in Dawson county where some land was donated.
• 35:57
  Speaker B: Yeah, the Egg Cares somewhat similar. That was more of a consortium of.
• 36:02
  Speaker A: Yes, it was a group of people.
• 36:03
  Speaker B: Group of people and companies that bought that farm. And it's been there now. In fact, I, I helped John Ferris, the county agent there in la Mesa in 1990 put the first drop nozzles on the pivot that sits out there at ag. I don't know if John Ferris brings back any memories, but he was a county agent there for many years. So. But that, so that farm has been there now for, you know, 35 years. And most farms like that, the life expectancy is about 30 years. We, you know, kind of want to give the opportunity to give it back. Of course that one was bought outright.
• 36:41
  Speaker A: Right.
• 36:41
  Speaker B: Dolly's. We have a 30 year lease with Dolly.
• 36:44
  Speaker A: Okay.
• 36:44
  Speaker B: We're into it now, three years. But in a conversation with her not too long ago, she is most likely we'll extend that course. Yeah, I doubt if I'm still on this earth, but those things hopefully continue on, you know. And she's provided a great.
• 37:00
  Speaker A: And that's a stop where we were going to. We were going to bring our NASA tour which got impacted by the government shut down.
• 37:06
  Speaker B: Yeah, that would have been an awesome thing.
• 37:08
  Speaker A: Yeah. But we are, we're getting some word back from them and, and re getting that on the, on the calendar for probably fall of next year. So. So it's gonna happen. It's gonna happen.
• 37:18
  Speaker B: Good. So, yeah, Dolly's given us, you know, some land that has, you know, some irrigation, both a center pivot and some drip irrigation. And then of course, some dry land corners and some other areas around there. So, you know, the Morton area is a little unique in its soil type compared to, you know, other research stations or satellite stations like Halfway or Lamisa. It's, you know, it's, it's a lot different out on the west plains along that.
• 37:52
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 37:52
  Speaker B: And it also represents Samaria and eastern New Mexico too. So they, excuse me, will benefit.
• 37:59
  Speaker A: So what is that soil? What is that soil like out there? Is it as sandy as, like parts of Terry County?
• 38:03
  Speaker B: It can be, but it's, it's, it's a little more chalky at times too. It's a little more calcareous. So it's, it is very variable. It's got some heavy soil in it, but yet it is still very sandy and can let loose and blow just like Terry county can.
• 38:20
  Speaker A: Yeah, but there's some, also a little more oil and gas production kind of in that area too.
• 38:28
  Speaker B: Well, it's not as intense right there, I think, as you go a little further south, closer to sundown, even east towards level end. But there are, we don't, fortunately we don't have any pump jacks right there on the farm.
• 38:41
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 38:42
  Speaker B: But yeah, we're not too far from that and that. And I think, you know, when you look at the Hockley Cochrane county area that I've been in for quite some time, drip irrigation is really taken off the last 20 years primarily because of the oil field so that we can irrigate around all those pump jacks.
• 39:02
  Speaker A: And I, so, and I. You may not be able to answer this question, but one, one of the things I have heard was that the people that made money this year in cotton were drip irrigation cotton producers. Or that was maybe the, that was maybe the guess of prediction.
• 39:19
  Speaker B: Yeah, it's all over the board. I mean, I, I've seen that we, we had some good cotton under pivots. We, we had some good dry land.
• 39:26
  Speaker A: There was some good dry land cotton this year because of all the rain.
• 39:29
  Speaker B: Yeah, it's hit or miss, you know, and I think producers that, that tried in terms of, know, controlling the weeds, you know, all the things that it takes to make a crop if they were blessed with some rain. It paid off. Yeah, hopefully it paid off. I mean, well, the price of cotton was not.
• 39:49
  Speaker A: Cotton is so bad.
• 39:50
  Speaker B: That's right.
• 39:51
  Speaker A: It is. It really is bad. And.
• 39:52
  Speaker B: And hopefully at least it paid those commitments that they had made it. There's not much gravy in here anyway. But I would say this year has been better than the last year too, which has been really difficult. Yeah. And we'd lost some acres early. They did move a lot of that to grain sorghum. And the grain sorghum was pretty good to us this year.
• 40:16
  Speaker A: Well, we're about out of time, but I would love to have you back. Well, I'd love to come back because I have questions.
• 40:21
  Speaker B: Well, we haven't really talked about the farm in all the way.
• 40:24
  Speaker A: We haven't. And I also have questions. I was having a conversation with a friend of mine Friday on Deep Breaking.
• 40:32
  Speaker B: Sure. And.
• 40:34
  Speaker A: Or. And I would love to have some more conversation about that. And just, you know, I. I think maybe this is something. Maybe just the regular person might not be a man on the street, but. Well, fair warning, farmers.
• 40:48
  Speaker B: Fair warning. I, you know, I love minima till and you know, that's where I did a lot of my graduate studies.
• 40:53
  Speaker A: Yes, yes, yes.
• 40:54
  Speaker B: And I'm a proponent of it. But I do think our soils tillage once in a while has a place. And I really hearken back to my days in Terry county, that we lose a lot of that soil structure over a period of time when we don't bring back some of those smaller soil particles.
• 41:15
  Speaker A: So two times recently I have heard, one was a interview with my husband's grandparents and they asked them what was. What do you think has been the biggest. Had. Had the biggest agricultural impact. And they said deep breaking. And then I was on the Terry county tour and our tour guide said that her granddad was like, deep breaking had the best. The biggest impact on agriculture. And I was like, those are two Terry county people. So I'm like, interesting. They're talking about like, probably the 30s and 40s.
• 41:47
  Speaker B: Sure. You know, and even from weed control standpoint. So there's. There are some benefits that we need to take advantage of once in a while.
• 41:55
  Speaker A: It's easy to see that something works and think it's always going to work and that you. When you're dealing with nature, you're dealing with this living. Lots of living systems.
• 42:10
  Speaker B: Sure. Yeah.
• 42:11
  Speaker A: That, you know, so there's so many things to take into consideration. But I really appreciate you being here.
• 42:15
  Speaker B: This.
• 42:15
  Speaker A: This is tons of fun. I appreciate the opportunity we will do together in It's.
• 42:19
  Speaker B: That sounds like plan.
• 42:20
  Speaker A: Friends, thanks for being with us. I hope that you found this interesting and maybe some of it you might not have understood, but we'll also try to find a picture of the cotton jazzy and jazzed, and see if we can put that up for people to identify. So, friends, we look forward to having you join us again for another episode of Conservation Stories. Thanks. Sat.