Latest / CrossPolitic Show / How to Reform a Church Without Losing the Parishioners w/ Pastor Scott Pettus
Transcript
- Hey y'all, welcome to Cross-Politics, one-on-one with the Waterboy. It's going to be with you. It's been, what, three weeks since I last recorded, four weeks since I last recorded. And it's all, I blame it all on the conference. We're at the Fight Life East Conference in Franklin, Tennessee, two weeks ago. It's been two weeks already, but in Franklin, Tennessee, and that week I was also at CREC Council. And I'll talk actually a little bit about that here in the show. So that whole week, including my conference, it just takes me a week or two to recover. I got back Sunday night from the Fight Life East Conference and literally slept 13 hours. I haven't done this as like college. I was out. And then woke up and started to kind of slowly get back into work on Monday. And I ended up getting sick that week. Of course, I go to my conference. I meet a thousand people and I get sick. So kind of recovered. And I'm fully back. I would say really yesterday is my first day to start thinking clearly again. So it took me about a week, week and a half to kind of, the sickness was horrible. I had no temperature. It's just a big head cold kind of thing. But anyways, I finally started thinking clear yesterday and able to kind of get back to feeling like 100% this week and everything. But the conference is great. Really missed you guys at the Fight Life East Conference. If you guys did not hear, we're launching Fight Life East Canada. Fight Life East Canada Conference in May. Make sure you guys tell your Canadian friends about it to get there to sign up, support the conference, bend at the conference. The whole thing. We got a great location just out about an hour and 20 minutes outside of Toronto in a city called London. They actually similar situation in Franklin, Tennessee, where it's an old factory that they converted into an event center called the factory in London and everything. So very excited. We're going to be working with Nate Wright and their church and Ezra Institute on the Fight Life East Conference in May. So we hope to see as many of you guys up there as possible. Of course, we're kicking our conference off. Bearing soloms, the whole works, everything up in Canada. So for my Canadian listeners, make sure you guys go to FightLife East.com, sign up. And if you want to bend at the conference, you can sign up there too and all that jazz. Very excited about coming to Canada for our FightLife East Conference. So with that said, I have a guest I want to introduce you guys to, Pastor Scott Petis. Pastor Scott Petis is the head pastor of first church artigia in Artigia, New Mexico. This church and this introduction is actually kind of important here. It's a West minister affirming reform congregation that grew out of the town's first church ever in Artigia in 1903. First Presbyterian church was planted in 1903. It was a PCUSH church. He came to the pulpit after a career in the Marine Corps, retiring and returning with his wife, Marty to their hometown. And he's been there, senior pastor since 2021. He writes as a militant churchman, the church militant, brilliance and basics and Christian present, a Christ's present, present lordship over every sphere. Pastor Scott Petis, thank you for coming on Cross Ball to go on a one. Thanks, Gabe, Brad Mellon. Yes, sir, you bet. So obviously you are, you were born in 1903. And my kids think so. Yeah, but it sounds like Artigia is your hometown. So you sworn in Artigia, grew up in Artigia and then me out. So the military like, let's start with a little bit of your life story before we get into the church situation. Yeah, actually, I moved to the town when I was about six years old. And so I did grow up here, graduated here in 1993, went off the Marine Corps, did that for 25 years before I retired and brought my family home. And so your kids kind of became military kids? They're definitely the whole different kind of MK, you know, so they were military kids, but it's funny even living all over the country, coast to coast, they still always called New Mexico home, even though they'd never lived here. Yeah. So I think we're in Artigia. Why did you decide to move back to Artigia? I mean, it seems like you kind of leave a small town in New Mexico, you tour around, become a military guy. You don't end up in, you know, Nashville or Dallas or some other city that would have seen more attractive than Artigia. Why did you end up coming back to Artigia? I think it's too full. I married my wife in 1996 right here in town and I promised always bring her home. And so I filled my promise that I would bring her home. All of our family lives here, her family, my family. And so we thought that was the right thing to do. And as the Lord was leading me into the ministry, those last couple of years in the core, I knew that where I needed a minister was here, back home. Yeah, that's good. And so were you a Christian when you went, would you grow up a Christian? Yeah, I was baptized about 12 miles down the road at eight years old in a small Southern Baptist church and lived my life as a Christian. And you know, it came into the reformed understanding of faith. Oddly enough in 2017. And the Lord worked on me from that point on. Yeah. How did you start kind of getting into the reforms view of Christianity? We were attending a small Baptist church there in North Carolina where we were living at the time as I'm a last duty station and befriended the pastor there. And he had started to dip his toe into reformed understanding. I had started to come across it because I'd really dug in. I was a big apologetics guy. And so I started digging in and watching a lot of apology, a lot of James White. And we both kind of came into it that year and he preached a five month series on the five solas. And it was kind of on from there. It just kept rolling. And then so you come back to your hometown. What year did you come back? You said 2019? 2020. January, 2020 is when I retired. My goodness. Yeah. We got here the week. I think we've been home a week when everything went into lockdown. Really? Yeah. Wow. So then yet you already thought on retirement military, I'm going to the ministry. Have you already thought about doing that? Yeah, I'd already, as I finished up my undergraduate degree in 2018, much to the sugar end of my lovely bride. I decided to enter seminary a month later. And I, from 2018 to 2020, I worked on my degree as seminary and completed that as I retired. Yeah. What seminary? Southern Baptist Theological Seminary. OK. You probably crossed paths with some of my friends. Some of my friends that I even hear had a friend who with the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary and same thing in 2020 and moved out there to go in 2020. It sounds like you did it online. Yeah, I had to do it online. Obviously I was still an active duty marine finishing up my degree. And they've got a really good program for active duty service members. And it was a huge blessing for me. But I didn't get to go get my diploma. I didn't get to go walk. Yeah. I was so, it was, it was probably one of the most soul crushing things. I'm like, I got a master's degree. It's now I can't even go get it, you know? And, you know, I think Al Muller's board was the problem there. I don't think Al Muller was. I think it's bored. I agree. Really went weak in 2020. So you end up back in Artisia. What did you already have a call? Or you're just like, I'm going back. Don't get to find any. We, we, I did have a job as a, as a, as, as doing a maintenance at one of the local churches and kind of serving part time as minister there, ministering to the Federal law enforcement training center students that we that we have here in town. So right here in Artisia, right behind my back, you know, you know, half mile away is the Border Patrol training academy. And so I had been hired on at a local church to do that. Yeah. And so this was not with first. No, this was not with first church. No. And so you end up, how did you end up? Because first church was a PC USA church. Now at that time, they had already moved EPC. They had left the PC USA in 2011 and become EPC. And I was really good friends with the minister there. Because considering we were kind of really the only two reform guys in town. And as he was leaving, I felt called to go over there and help out. And things, you know, the Lord, Lord made things move and they hired me on. Wow. So the, the pastor of what was then became the EPC church, he had been going reformed. And then you, and then he was slowly starting to leave. And then you came in and replaced him as an EPC pastor that was going for him. How? That was going to reform this church. Well, they were, they were reformed. They didn't really know it. They were Presbyterians. That's what they knew. Were Presbyterians. And it was an EPC church. It's at the EPC like, did you have a woman, a woman elder? I did. I had two of them. Oh, wow. Yeah. And I, and I, I was not, I was, I did not hide my biblical stance on women elders. And they said, that's fine. We're still hiring you. So you got, you got hired on at this EPC church with two women elders. They voted the hire you as their pastor, knowing that you were against women as elders. Yeah, I mean, and those two women still tend to that church church to this day. It didn't lose a single one of the families. There was only three families left. There was eight people left in the church. Oh, really? Yeah. And they, they saw that I had a vision and a love for Christ and a love for them. And they were willing to take a risk on me. And God has, God has blessed it, multifold. When, when were you hired on what year? I would have been June 2021. So how did you navigate with your new elderboard? And it sounds like your church has grown. Sounds like there's more people there now. Yeah, we, we run, we run about 45 to 50 on Sunday mornings. And so how did you navigate this with the, with the women elders as, and obviously at some point, because you guys are trying to make it into, get into the CREC now. We are, we are seated as a church. You're officially, we are a particularized church. Yes. Yeah. OK. And that happened this last council, correct? Yes, sir. So in four years, you went from women elders to coming into the CREC. How did you navigate that process without shutting the church down? A lot of prayer, a lot of teaching, a lot of time in scripture, really introducing them to reform thought. Like I said, did they, they understood they were press tearing, they didn't understand the press tearing meant reformed. And as we, as we all live together, and we, we, we made a family. And within family, we were able to go to scripture together and come to that understanding that what is, what is actually truly right. And everyone was quite content with it. And so, I mean, obviously, at some point, you had to have a governance shift change vote to the women step down. How did they, like close up, like, governmental process for what? These ladies, these ladies were tired and ready to be off the session as it was. And as the church grew and qualified men came along, they were more than willing to step back. And we, we elected a whole new session. And then we started navigating the problems with the EPC that we saw. Yeah, because you, and then from there, you, you, you, exited the EPC and then obviously joined the CREC. So it's session. And so these women basically voted men in and voted to not have women be elders anymore at, at the church. And was it like the governance vote? So it, it, it, it, it wasn't a singular overnight, you know, change. It just took time. And as they began to see the problems and that were coming out of the EPC. And what was there? And they come to the same conclusion in understanding as us as to who should lead the church. And, and it's, it's, it's been a huge blessing sense. Yeah. Man, that's, that's quite a fun story to, to see this PC USA church. Go EPC and the EPC was actually a step in the right direction for them. Coming out of the PC USA into the EPC was actually going the right direction, which is funny. And, and then having women elders hire you and then you kind of go through leading and discipling and, and them into, entering into the CREC church and everything. And he said, those, those women, former women elders, they're still with the church today. To know what the church to this day. So what's it like ministering in Artisia? What's the challenges? What's, you know, what's going on in the land? There's a, there's a couple of things. I think one of the biggest things is being a confessional church, a reformed church, you know, in a small town country environment like what we're in. Even I grew up thinking there was only two churches, the Baptist church and the Catholic church. And, you know, everybody else was just weird. And so it's, it's tough to navigate with people to understand, you know, because you say, well, what, what kind of church are you say, well, we're a reformed church. And, you know, or we're, even if you say, we're presbyterian, they had nobody understands what you're saying. And so it, it takes, it takes time to educate people and to get the word out there. And, and so that, that in itself, if it's a challenge, I think the other challenge is, you know, everybody in town has a church. Just nobody goes to it. You know, you, you look at the numbers and I've run the numbers here in this town, you know, 80, probably 85 plus percent, if not 90 percent of the church tell you, they're followers of Christ. And God bless them. I believe in every one of them as they make that expression. But on Sunday mornings, because we are small enough town now, town is 12,000 people, we got about 42 churches. But, you know, overall numbers, we're probably less than 2,000 people worshiping on any given Sunday. So, you know, you look at those percentage numbers, you realize, it's not, we're living in nominal Christianity, you know, cultural Christianity down here. And so, you, it takes some effort to evangelize and bring people into the church and convince them of the need of belonging to the body of Christ and the, and the fellowship that comes along with that and, and the importance of it. Yeah, and it seems that, you know, that's always such a funny one to me. I haven't gone up to text the same kind of concept where it's like, everyone would say they're a Christian, but none of them are really going to church. Yeah, of that kind of thing. And it's always surprising to me because like, how much the scriptures talks about, especially the Psalms and the through Testament, where it talks about worshiping with the assembly of the saints, going to the God's house, you know, time and time again, about how central that was to David's life. And then how Paul talks about how central that is to our life, the church is the villain and ground of truth, Christ talking about how the church is the city on a hill. And yet, we have a, there's a, a big gap between what they're saying that I'm a Christian and what that actually means about actually participating and going to and being part of the body of a local church. Yeah, I, you know, I point people to two things. You can't love the head without loving the body. And you can't love one another if you never get together. And so it's, and it's one of those situations in which you have to do like I did with the church. It's got to be a slow steady. All right, y'all. So it's got, Pastor Scott had a couple of technical problems. We got to fix we're back. And as we were kind of talking about, you know, the Christian Christians or people can confessing Christians who don't go to church, or we're talking about kind of Scott's, Pastor Scott's area in our, our TGIA where he's got about 12,000 people in his town and maybe about 2000 attend church regularly. In addition to that Pastor Scott, you kind of have the, the challenge of people, you know, thinking either there's the evangelical Baptist church or Catholic church, but your Presbyterian is that you have kind of the additional challenge of maybe getting people to understand what does it mean to be a Presbyterian church in the midst of your town. So I know, also that kind of jogs your memory, but kind of made it go up where we left off there. Yeah, it's like I said, it's a challenge. But, you know, I think the means by over that I've sought to overcome it is by getting out and being involved in the city. You know, we meet on Sundays, we worship, we fellowship amongst our church members, but we try to participate in the town. I'm heavily involved. I host a talk radio show twice a week here in town. And I jokingly, I jokingly call it the Harbor Freight Cross-Politik or the Team-U briefing. And nice. And, and, you know, I'm out there preaching gospel on terrestrial radio twice a week and involved in as much as I can, the local fair. You know, I lead the efforts to put on a Christian concert at the local county fair every year. And we just get out and we try to get involved with people and let them know that just shown the love of Christ and not being some separate and different and we're not off to the side. But yet here we are, members of this society and this this town living out Christ. So, so let me ask you this kind of last question here. Because I bet there's a lot of listeners who have heard your story. You took over this church that was coming out of the PC USA, coming into the EPC. You had women elders. You know, how did you, you know, what are your thoughts on how did how what advice would you give other people who are in not ideal church circumstances, but want to work through it the best they can and get on the other side of those challenges and be more biblical on the other side of it? How did what were you thinking and what advice you have for churches to be patient and to walk the way you walk through your church? A lot of what guided me and directed me as as as a dug through scripture is understanding that all of the stuff that we're encountering all of this that we're having is is is an Ephesians 6 issue putting on the armor of Christ. We are in a battle and the enemy is in the midst of just about everything and when you, you know, had having spent all my years I was blessed by God to go and serve within the special forces. I was not an operator. I was commonly referred to as was a pogue person, other and grunt. And so I served those men, but I learned lessons of battle serving alongside of those guys and you can't approach every every problem head on like like an infantry line and battle just trying to crush everything. It takes time, it takes patience, it takes wisdom and you have to take things slowly and deal with them in little bits and pieces all the while constantly preaching the faithful word, the fullness of the gospel and showing people that you love them and getting there over time. I'm a charge ahead type guy and so it takes a lot of effort for me to hold myself back oftentimes and to take those little baby steps one at a time to get to where you need to go, but the big thing is gotta know where you're headed. Where is it you want, what is it you want to achieve and then have a battle plan going forward to get there and not crush the souls of the people that you're leading forward because if you run too fast you'll leave the whole platoon behind and that's then you're then you're left standing there alone. Yeah, you might have your perfect little church at the end, but it'll just be you in a couple of Theobrose that are high five in each other. That's not good. Thank you, Pastor Scott. How should people follow you? How should they find out? How can they find out more about your church if they're in the area where should they go? Check us out at artesiareformed.com. You can watch me on ksvptv.com. We stream our church on there. If you go to our website you can watch all of our services. I blog on occasion as militantminister.com and just check us out. Keep an eye on us and watch how we go forward. Well, thank you. Pastor Scott, appreciate you. Glad to have you guys in the fold of the CREC. It's a great meeting you actually in Tennessee a couple weeks ago and pray to Lord blesses your word for everyone else. Make sure you guys check out his church. If you're driving through artesia, New Mexico, stop by and stop by on Sunday. It's got the church and everything. So make sure you guys follow Pastor Scott and what he does. But also, again, as I start off the show at the very beginning, please tell your friends about what's going on in our conference in Canada. Go to fightlapfist.com. Point your friends that way. We really would help love to help minister to all our friends in Canada and the surrounding area. From British Columbia all the way to St. John. So spread the word. We look forward to seeing everybody in Canada in the end of April beginning of May. So thank you guys for joining Cross-Paltice one on one with the water break. We'll see you guys next week.