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596: #596 Jason Flom with Terrel Barros · Wrongful Conviction Podcasts

• 00:00:00 Speaker 1: When we last brought you Terrell Barrows' story, there had been a major breakthrough. After spending 11 years in prison for a murder he's always maintained he didn't commit, Terrell's conviction was vacated in 2023, and he was released on bail into the waiting arms of his mother. But the state of Rhode Island appealed that decision. Now, we finally have some very good news. In July of this year, the Rhode Island Supreme Court affirmed the decision that overturned Terrell's convictions. At the center of the case was powerful new evidence. The cousin of Stephen Bodden, the man Terrell has always said was the actual shooter, testified that Bodden confessed to her on multiple occasions. On the night of the shooting, Bodden himself had told police, it's me, it's all me, it's all mine, end quote. The lower court bound the new witness credible and concluded that her testimony could have, and let's face it, probably would have changed the verdict. the Rhode Island Supreme Court agreed that this powerful, newly discovered evidence justified overturning Terrell's conviction, and they upheld the ruling, granting him post-conviction relief. So the case now goes back to Superior Court, and the state has to decide whether it's going to try Terrell again. So, the fight isn't completely over. But after more than a decade behind bars, as well as years spent fighting to prove what he has said from the very beginning— one of the biggest obstacles standing between Terrell and his freedom has finally fallen. Now, here is Terrell's story. 00:01:42 Speaker 2: Welcome back to Wrongful Conviction with Jason Flom. Today, we're going to be discussing the really troubling case of Terrell Barrows, who was wrongfully convicted of a shooting in which one person was killed and another was badly injured. And with us today, we have a student at Georgetown who's been doing incredible work investigating his case under the leadership of my friend, Professor Mark Howard. So Nirjana Hendy, welcome to the show. 00:02:10 Speaker 3: Thank you, Jason. 00:02:11 Speaker 2: The Georgetown class that Nurjana is a student in is taught by Mark Howard and a name that you'll recognize from being on our show more than once, Marty Tankliff. And of course, this class was directly responsible for the exoneration of Valentino Dixon. If you haven't heard his episode, please go back and listen to it. 00:02:31 Speaker 4: It's extraordinary. 00:02:33 Speaker 2: We hope to be hearing from Terrell Barrows very soon. Of course, in this COVID time that we're in, it's very hard to get to the phones in prison, but we will be discussing his case and hopefully hearing from him as the podcast progresses. So let's go back to 2012. Back in August of 2012, Terrell. 00:02:53 Speaker 5: Barrows and a group of friends headed out to Monet Lounge in Providence, Rhode Island. While they're in the club, there's some sort of verbal altercation between Terrell's group and a couple of members of another group, including the two that got shot. One was Rokeem Henley, who got shot in the leg and who I spoke with a couple of times over the past few months. And then Jamal Cruz, who ended up dying that night. But Terrell wasn't a part of that verbal altercation. It was Stefan Bodden who was. And so a name was called, someone's hat got tapped off their head, and then no one really stays. 00:03:31 Speaker 3: There's not a physical altercation at all. 00:03:34 Speaker 5: Later on in the night, Stefan Bodden asked Terrell, he goes, hey, let me get the tactical, get your car keys. So as he's heading over, there is another car that is parked bumper to bumper with Terrell's car. And it just happens to be the car of Jamal Crews, Stefan thought that Jamal and Rokeem were coming to cause problems when in reality they were just walking to their car. Stefan grabs the gun and, you know, witnesses say he told them don't come any closer. And at this point, Terrell starts heading over to his car with his group of friends. 00:04:12 Speaker 3: Terrell is about. 00:04:13 Speaker 5: 10 to 15 feet away from Stefan Bowden and Jamal Cruz, which is where all eyewitnesses place him as well. And he's actually walking to get to the other side of his car to hop in the driver's seat because he knows that there's trouble about to happen. He doesn't want to be a part of it. He hears two gunshots. He jumps into the driver's seat and almost immediately, Stefan jumps into the passenger seat and the cops are there to arrest them. 00:04:38 Speaker 2: And there's more to this, too, because when Stefan jumped into the passenger seat, he had sort of a moment of self-awareness, right, where he started apologizing to Terrell for sort of involving him in this. 00:04:52 Speaker 3: Yeah. 00:04:52 Speaker 5: You know, at this point, the arresting officers are on either side and the gun is still with Stefan Baden. He is caught concealing the gun in the passenger side door. And Stefan actually confesses on the scene. He said, it's me. It's all me. It's all mine. Yet they are both arrested. taken to a paddy wagon, and then there's a show-up that is done. Now, I spoke with a couple of jury members who told me this is what caused us to believe Terrell is guilty. So, in the show-ups, they bring Stefan over to Jamal, who is in critical condition on the floor, extremely intoxicated, and they say, is this the man that shot you? And Jamal looks away. Apparently, when they bring over Terrell... Detective Matrasi says Jamal nods. 00:05:43 Speaker 2: That's what they say he did. It doesn't matter if he nodded or not. He was in no position to make any identification of anyone, and we still don't know if he did. It's not like he stuck his finger out and went, yeah, that's the guy who shot me, and he's out, right? That's not what happened. 00:05:58 Speaker 5: They actually did not even do a show-up identification with the other guy, Rokeem Henley, who was shot, and he was not in critical condition. 00:06:06 Speaker 2: They also didn't bother to swab the hands of either Terrell or Stefan, right? That would be so critical to figuring out who did or did not commit this horrible crime. 00:06:18 Speaker 5: And Jason, I think it was clear to arresting officers. This had to have been Stefan. It was in his hand. He confesses. That's probably why they didn't even swab their hands. And then, you know, somehow the story gets twisted. And it's now in Terrell because of what they call a dying declaration. Terrell always says, he goes, there were two lives lost that night. 00:06:40 Speaker 6: Mine. 00:06:41 Speaker 5: And Jamal Cruz. And I feel bad because Jamal Cruz didn't get justice. 00:06:46 Speaker 7: This is a free call from an inmate at Maximum Security Facility. Thank you for using Securus. You may start the conversation now. 00:07:00 Speaker 6: Hello. 00:07:01 Speaker 4: Hey, Terrell. 00:07:04 Speaker 2: Thanks for calling in. I know we have limited time, so let's get right to it. Can you take us back to the awful night of this crime and give us your perspective having lived through this nightmare yourself? 00:07:16 Speaker 6: Well, back at that night, the two dudes approached, and they were talking to Stephan about something. The problem wasn't with me. So we went outside in front of the club. Stephan wanted my keys to go get his cigarettes. So when we go to the car, the two dudes are approaching. So I see them two dudes. I'm like, oh, man, here we go. So I turned around to go to the driver's side of the car. Then I hear shots. So I just run into my car. As soon as I run into my car, the cop is like, honest. He had the gun on me. You know, put your hands on the steering wheel. So I put my hands on the steering wheel, and he keeps on saying it. But he's talking to Stefan. So he puts his hands on the steering wheel, and he's like, yo, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I love you, I love you. The police officer's talking, and he's like, oh, yo, the passenger's got the gun. So as soon as he opens up the door... Stefan says, it's me, it's all me, it's all mine. He's like, it's you? He's like, yeah, it's me. So when he took him out, he's already handcuffed him. The other cop that had the gun on us, he comes, he slaps the cuffs on the wrist, my wrist, and slams me on the floor. Brings me back to the paddy wagon. There was a guy that was shot. I didn't know no one was shot. I could see blood. This dude was hurt. So this dude was shot in the chest. And this dude was like doing a show up with this guy shot in the chest. Asking him, this him, this him, this him. The guy just looked at me and put his head down. He didn't say nothing. He didn't do nothing. He didn't say nothing. He just put his head down. So then they had put me back in the paddy wagon. They bring me back to the station. When they bring me back to the station, you know, they do the mugshot, the fingerprints, whatever. They brought me to a room with two detectives. I asked for my lawyer. Detective Angelo Avant was the lead detective. He was the one that questioned me the first time and the first night. So he's like, oh, you know, he wants a cigarette. You want a cigarette? I'm like, no. He's like, you want water? I'm like, no. And he kept on trying to talk to me. And I'm like, I want my lawyer. I want my lawyer. I want my lawyer. So he leaves the room, and he comes back, and he brings back the holding cell. So one of the times, I'm like, yo, I'm banging on the door. A cop comes. He's like, oh, what you banging on the door? I'm like, I want my phone call. He's like, phone call? I'm like, yeah. He's like, are you getting plenty of phone calls? We are going. I'm like, where am I going? He's like, we're going to jail. Huh, what the hell? They bring me in the bus. They transport me there. And I find out Monday, the arraignment, that I'm getting charged with murder. I go up into the courtroom. I had to split up. Stephan was on the left side, I was on the right side. So they reached Stephan in his charges. Stephan Bolton possessed him with a firearm. And that was that. It was a Terrell Barrows first-degree murder. I'm like, they charging me with murder? I promise you on everything I love, I did not do it. He had I don't understand it either because it should have been over right then and there. The caller has hung up. 00:10:24 Speaker 2: You're listening to Wrongful Conviction. You can listen to this and all the Lava for Good podcasts one week early and ad free by subscribing to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. I have never and may never again hear of a case in which the actual shooter skates on the charges after confessing on the scene, right? I mean, at that point, this should be a very short podcast. That should be the end of it. I mean, this would be funny, except it's so freaking serious, right? And this is the system that we all rely on day in and day out. I'd like to believe that we have people who are doing the job that they're paid to do. In this case, it's absolutely true. It failed society. It failed the victim. It failed Terrell. And that's what we're here to talk about. And then it gets weirder because then you start with the the eyewitness. The only eyewitness is a guy named Gregory Zorabedian. And he initially claims he didn't see the shooting and then changed his testimony six days before the trial to say he saw Terrell do it. We have a document signed by the assistant attorney general promising not to charge him for perjury should he alter his testimony. That's maybe just a little bit of a red flag there. Now, get this, okay? This Gregory Zorabedian guy had Well, let's just call it an extensive criminal history, but that might not even be doing it justice. So his rap sheet went back 30 years. It included convictions, not arrests, convictions for living off the earnings of a prostitute, grand larceny, DUI causing death, cocaine possession, burglary, theft, escape. And that's just the beginning. So do we think that after doing all these other things he's done, he might be willing to lie in exchange for a deal? I would say that's a pretty good likelihood. And then let's get to Detective Charles Matrasio. Do you want to take that one, Eugena? 00:12:26 Speaker 5: He was actually the one who claims that he saw Jamal Cruz nod. When they brought over Terrell, I asked Terrell, I said, yo, were you watching Jamal? 00:12:36 Speaker 3: He said, yeah, I was watching him. I said, did he not? 00:12:38 Speaker 5: He said, no, he didn't do anything. So whether he did or did not is another story. But again, Jamal Cruz was under the influence of alcohol. He had a BAC of 0.162, which seems like a lot until we look at Rakeem, who had an actually higher BAC as well. And then both Stefan and Terrell were wearing white t-shirts and darker pants. Out of the group that Terrell was in, he was not the only one with two long black braids. 00:13:03 Speaker 3: He just wasn't. It was a style. 00:13:05 Speaker 5: If you look at the pictures of his friend group, he's not the only one with two long black braids. 00:13:09 Speaker 3: And so. 00:13:10 Speaker 5: Out of a group of people wearing white shirts, dark pants, two long black braids, you're dying on the floor. And Detective Matrasi says, yeah, he nodded when we brought over Terrell. 00:13:21 Speaker 3: I mean, how unreal could that be? 00:13:22 Speaker 5: And so now we're moving into GSR testing. 00:13:27 Speaker 2: GSR stands for gunshot residue. 00:13:29 Speaker 5: Yep. And there are three particles of gunshot residue that they test for. 00:13:34 Speaker 3: When they're looking at clothing. 00:13:35 Speaker 5: So when Stefan and Terrell were initially arrested, Stefan was pulled out of the car and he was slammed against the side of the car. When Terrell was arrested, he was pulled out of the car and slammed to the ground. So he actually had some dirt on his white shirt in a specific area. What they initially tested was the chest area of both Terrell and and of Stefan, because the theory is if someone is a shooter and they hold the gun straight ahead, that the gunshot residue will recoil and hit them in the chest area. 00:14:10 Speaker 3: So they talk about Stefan, they go, well, we found lead on Stefan. 00:14:13 Speaker 5: And they say, well, you also found lead on Terrell. So Terrell whispers to his attorney, ask if they happened to find the lead where my shirt was dirty. 00:14:23 Speaker 3: They said, yes. 00:14:24 Speaker 5: So it makes sense that that's the only place on his clothing where they found lead. So this is all the information they had in terms of GSR at trial, but there is more GSR evidence to come, which is part of what we are motioning for with the new hearing coming up. 00:14:40 Speaker 2: Well, we're on initials, right? We'll go from GSR to DNA. And the DNA report excluded Terrell from having held the gun. So let's touch for a second on the DNA expert for the state, who we know was, well, I mean, most, unfortunately, quote unquote, experts are pro-prosecution. In fact, the whole system is pro-prosecution. Over 80% of judges are former prosecutors. So Throughout the process, there's a tilt towards prosecution, and the experts that you're seeing may not be objective at all. And this is one of those cases where I think that there's a strong argument to that effect. So, Nurjana, can you talk about that? 00:15:19 Speaker 5: Yeah, Cara Lupino gave extremely pro-prosecution testimony. And the way that she had presented it, the attorney would ask a question, the prosecutor. She would respond and say, yes, and Terrell was included. And then you all of a sudden get to the very, very, very end. And they really quickly sneak in a couple of lines of Terrell was excluded and Stefan Bodden's DNA could not be excluded. So when I'm talking to the juror, she goes, I don't even really remember him being excluded. 00:15:49 Speaker 3: It was so confusing. There were a lot of numbers thrown out. 00:15:52 Speaker 5: Terrell seemed to be included in almost every mixture that they're talking about. It's absolutely insane. And if I was in the jury, I would have thought the same thing. 00:16:01 Speaker 2: The state's witness essentially muddied the waters of what was a pretty cut-and-dried DNA report that excluded Terrell from having ever held the gun. But then there's Rokeem Henley, the other guy who got shot that night. His testimony... along with the ballistic evidence known at the time of trial, make it an actual impossibility that Terrell could have been the shooter. 00:16:26 Speaker 5: He does testify, and when I asked him the same question when I met with him, he said the only person standing close to Jamal Cruz was Stephen Bodden. So I said, here's the discrepancy. Did you see who shot you? 00:16:42 Speaker 3: He said no. I said, okay, well, ballistic evidence. 00:16:47 Speaker 5: proves that the shot was made from near contact to 18 inches away. And you are telling me that the only person standing near contact to 18 inches away from Jamal Cruz was Stefan Bodden. He said yes, but I didn't see him shoot the gun. It's kind of a confusing testimony. You don't see Stefan do it, but you also claim you did not see Terrell outside. You don't know who Terrell is. The only time he saw Terrell was at trial. So if Rokeem had never seen Terrell and the shot was made from near contact to 18 inches away, it is impossible that Terrell was the shooter. 00:17:27 Speaker 2: Nevertheless, the incentivized witness, the muddy DNA report, and of course, the testimony of Detective Matrasia were too much to overcome. And Terrell was sentenced to two life sentences plus 30 years. 00:17:42 Speaker 7: This is a free call from Terrell, an inmate at Maximum Security Facility. Thank you for using Securus. You may start the conversation now. 00:17:56 Speaker 6: Hello? 00:17:57 Speaker 4: Okay. 00:17:57 Speaker 2: The investigators in your case, Terrell, it was Detective Matrascia and Detective Angelo, right? 00:18:03 Speaker 6: Yeah. Detective Angelo was the leader of the case. Matrascia was the one that lied about Jamal saying it was me at the show up. So what I was told was this from a lot of lawyers, and they all gave me the same answer. Y'all are in this situation. They pin this on you. It's because you asked for your lawyer. I asked for my lawyer. That's my right. They said, yeah, but you didn't tell them what they wanted to hear, and they threw it on you. Jamal ain't here. So you can put any words in that man's mouth you want because you can't put him on the stand and cross-examine him. So what the cops do, they go on the stand and they think, no, they know they know that the jury look at them as superheroes. The jury don't think that the cops are going to go on the stand and lie. And that's what they did. And Jamal ain't here. Now, this was before this even going on with George Floyd. This was in like 2012, 2013. So around that time, that climate was like, oh, no, the police ain't going to lie on this kid. 00:19:09 Speaker 2: Terrell, you've gone through this insane nightmare. Everything that could go wrong has gone wrong so far. But then comes the moment where the jury goes out and they come back in. Did you think that they were going to find you innocent? Tell us about that moment. 00:19:25 Speaker 6: They bring me down to the elevator to the courtroom. And you can just feel, like, the tension in the courtroom. And the jury come in. Their faces are funny. They said I was guilty. And then everybody, just my family, everybody was just like, no, he's innocent. Like, they just went crazy. I'm just sitting there, like, in shock. I'm in shock. Like, everybody's standing up. I'm the only one sitting down. And what got me out of the trance is I seen Detective Angelo Pavone laughing. So I said, yo, what you think this is, funny? He just looked at me. And I looked at Jamal's family. And I turned around to him. I said, I didn't do this to your son. I promise you, I promise you, I did not do this to your son. I did not do this. They didn't get justice for your son. They're lying to you. And they're just looking at me, like, in a shock. Everyone's going crazy. So during that commotion, I seen the prosecutor, like, hug the brother, like they were in the Super Bowl, smacking his back, like, yeah, yeah, we got him. And I'm just looking at him like, you're lying to this family. Like, this is a big lie. Like, you just found an innocent kid guilty for a crime you didn't do. They just wanted the conviction. I know they know I didn't do it because the prosecutor, you know, when you see bogus charges, but you still go forward with it because you want a conviction. They don't care if you're innocent. 00:20:51 Speaker 2: Yeah, they're thinking about their future, their aspirations, the way they can be successful. They know that's by having a good conviction rate by and large, but it's like it's some sort of sick scoreboard. And There are decent prosecutors out there. There are some really good ones, too. But the ones that are willing to ignore evidence of innocence and prosecute clearly bogus cases like yours just to get another notch on their belt, just to move up the ladder, they're a disgrace. And they're actually a menace to public safety. 00:21:22 Speaker 6: They use our backs as a stepping stone to the top. They ruin our family to make their family better. Yeah, they just look at it as a money sign. 00:21:32 Speaker 4: And as if. 00:21:45 Speaker 2: This case couldn't get worse or weirder, Stefan Baden put out a song. I guess he was trying to rid himself of the guilt of skating on the murder rap. And allowing his friend to rot in prison, right? 00:22:00 Speaker 5: He wrote this song called Letter to Terrell. It's really more of a guilt trip. Saying things like, we should have never went out to the club that night. It's painful that you're in that cell. It's painful on my mother. 00:22:12 Speaker 1: How is he out and Terrell's in prison? 00:22:22 Speaker 3: Stephen Bodden is now dead. 00:22:24 Speaker 5: He was shot in a car shooting in 2017. 00:22:29 Speaker 2: It's too much. 00:22:30 Speaker 4: I mean, the. 00:22:33 Speaker 2: Good news is he's the only good news here, I guess, is that he's got a fantastic team now. We've got some momentum. Can you talk about that new evidence? Talk about his new lawyer and what lays ahead? 00:22:44 Speaker 5: The original theory was if you hold a gun straight out in front of you, the GSR or gunshot residue will fly back and hit the chest area, as I mentioned before. 00:22:56 Speaker 3: However, Bob Kando. 00:22:59 Speaker 5: Terrell's newer attorney, went ahead and looked at the trajectory of the bullets and he had a couple of questions about where the shot was actually made from. How is it possible that Rakeem didn't see the shooter? How is it possible that if Jamal gave a dying declaration that he gave it to the wrong person? And how is it possible that if Stefan's the real shooter, we find only lead on him? 00:23:22 Speaker 3: Where are the other particles of GSR? 00:23:25 Speaker 5: So Bob Kando goes ahead and puts in a request for other areas of Bodden's clothing to be analyzed, including his crotch and belt area. Lo and behold, they come back with more particles of GSR, which ends up being huge news. putting together trajectory of the bullets, putting together GSR, Stefan Baden actually took the shots from right next to his belt. He actually did not hold the gun straight ahead. So if that were to happen, someone who's extremely intoxicated wouldn't be able to see the gun. 00:23:58 Speaker 3: And when I actually ended up speaking. 00:23:59 Speaker 5: To Rakim later, I said, well, you know, the new evidence really says that the gun was next to him. He responds, he goes, oh, that might explain it. So the that might explain why Rokeem didn't see that Stefan shot him. 00:24:14 Speaker 3: So that's very exciting. 00:24:15 Speaker 5: And with this new evidence, with the new affidavit that we have written, new eyewitnesses who are coming forward, family members of Stefan Bodden who are coming forward and saying, I know Stefan did it. 00:24:28 Speaker 3: He told me multiple times. We are taking all of this. 00:24:31 Speaker 5: And Bob is pushing for a hearing in September with a motion for a new trial. And we're hoping that we can get Terrell home very soon. 00:24:39 Speaker 2: And that leads to what happens now and what can people do? 00:24:44 Speaker 5: A mini documentary came out about Terrell Barrows. 00:24:48 Speaker 3: Please check it out. The title of it is on YouTube. 00:24:50 Speaker 5: It's called Making an Exoneree 2020-The Story of Terrell Barrows. And in that, you'll really see everything that we outlined throughout this entire podcast, as well as getting to hear from people who heard from Stefan himself that he did it. And then there's also a Change.org petition that sends a letter to the governor who has been pretty vocal about, you know, the BLM movement and everything that's happening right now. So we're hoping that she'll also hop onto this. Change.org slash Free Terrell Barrows. So it's Change.org slash Free Terrell Barrows. 00:25:26 Speaker 2: Our wonderful producers have put the link in the podcast description below. So you can just scroll down on whatever platform you're listening to. Please share it on social media. Tell people, listen to the episode, watch the video content that's out there. We can win this. So now this is the part where I get to thank our guests in this case, Nourjana Hendy. Thank you for being here. And of course, Terrell Barros. We're here for you. We're going to fight for you. And thank you as well for sharing. your thoughts with us. Now I'm going to turn off my microphone, kick back in my chair and let Norjana Handy share her final thoughts in the segment we call Closing Arguments. 00:26:14 Speaker 5: Terrell is an amazing man. I could go on and on about who he is as a person, the character that he has and the change that he will make when he is brought home. And It has been such an honor to be in his life, to be in his mother's life, to be in his attorney's life. And I'm hoping that we can prove Terrell's innocence and bring him home to his mom, to his family, and to society where he belongs and where I am 1000% sure that he is going to make a difference. this is not the end and it's definitely not the beginning. This, you know, story with Terrell has happened many times in the past and unfortunately will continue to happen unless people like me, like you, Jason, come together and bring Terrell home. 00:27:03 Speaker 2: And now over to you, Terrell. Again, thank you for being here and thank you for your courage and your spirit. Hang in there. We're all out here rooting for you and more importantly, fighting for you. So now, Over to you for closing arguments. 00:27:19 Speaker 6: I just want to thank everybody for listening. And I want to start off by thanking Jason for giving me this platform to explain my situation. We need people like Jason, Mark Howard, Marty Tankwood, the Georgetown students, Najana, Leo, Caroline. They are fighting so hard for me. My attorney, Robert Kando, I just want to thank him for being there for me and really fighting for me because he knows I'm really innocent, you know? I also got to thank the two main women in my life, my mother and Anne-Lisha. If it wasn't for Anne-Lisha reaching out to Mark, I would have none of this right now, this interview, the documentary, the petition, none of this would be going on right now if this wasn't for her. I want to thank my mother for always being there for me. Her strength is where I get it from. But right here, I'm innocent. And she told me to fight, fight, fight until I get my freedom. I got a post-conviction hearing coming up. And I'm fighting for a new trial. And I'm fighting for freedom. I need your help. I just need as much people to sign this petition. 00:28:31 Speaker 7: You have one minute left. 00:28:33 Speaker 6: And spread the word. We need allies. There's a lot of us in here. that are voiceless. And I am blessed to have the family I have, to have this voice to speak, because it's given me a platform to speak for the voiceless in this prison. I feel like people are putting in my life for a reason. I know that I'm going to get out of jail, and I've got to fight on if I want to kill people who are innocent in prison, because it has to stop. These cops need to be held accountable. They're not just killing us in the streets. They're killing us in these courts. And there's no consequences when they do it. They need to be accomplished. Too many people in the prison system with their lives took in for something they didn't do. It has to stop. 00:29:39 Speaker 2: Don't forget. to give us a fantastic review wherever you get your podcasts. 00:29:43 Speaker 6: It really helps. 00:29:44 Speaker 2: And I'm a proud donor to the Innocence Project, and I really hope you'll join me in supporting this very important cause and helping to prevent future wrongful convictions. Go to InnocenceProject.org to learn how to donate and get involved. I'd like to thank our production team, Connor Hall and Kevin Wardus. The music in the show is by three-time Oscar-nominated composer. 00:30:05 Speaker 1: Jay Ralph. 00:30:06 Speaker 2: Be sure to follow us on Instagram at Wrongful Conviction and on Facebook at Wrongful Conviction Podcast. Wrongful Conviction with Jason Flom is a production of Lava for Good Podcast in association with Signal Company No. 1.