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The Bizarre Saga of the Red Solo Cup · Ridiculous History

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  Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome back to
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: the show, fellow Ridiculous Historians. Thank you, as always so
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: much for tuning in. Let's hear it for our super producer,
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  Speaker 1: mister Max Party America Premium Williams.
• 0:43
  Speaker 2: I don't understand, but I couldn't get at. I can't retard.
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: Max says, that's none other than the legendary mister Noel Brown.
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: In his mind.
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  Speaker 1: Yes, yes, they call me, Ben Bullen, your legendary in
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  Speaker 1: my mind as well and my heart. Oh my gosh,
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  Speaker 1: Hey guys, when's the last time you had a solo
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  Speaker 1: cup by myself? Ah, that's a great question, nol. But
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  Speaker 1: we're specifically talking about those plastic red cups. Yeahs, you
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  Speaker 1: know it's funny, Ben, it's been a minute.
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  Speaker 2: I don't really see those pop up as much. But
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  Speaker 2: you know what I always think of, and I'm not
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  Speaker 2: a fan of modern country and Western music, red solo cup.
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  Speaker 2: I feel you up, Let's have a party. It became
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  Speaker 2: a bit of a like a pop cultural touchstone for
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: the redneck class in any pejorative sense. I think they
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  Speaker 2: would gladly accept that term in the country music world
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  Speaker 2: and embrace it.
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  Speaker 1: And I will argue that Toby Keith is somewhat of
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  Speaker 1: a bankrupt artist.
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  Speaker 2: Is that who does that song? Yes?
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  Speaker 1: Uh, it is the guy who does that song. It
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  Speaker 1: will share more of the lyrics as well. The Internet
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  Speaker 1: calls it a novelty country song. Yes and uh. Mister
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  Speaker 1: Keith himself, also in an interview, called it the worst
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  Speaker 1: song he had ever heard.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, it reminds me of a well it's funny.
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  Speaker 2: At least he owns it.
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  Speaker 1: It reminds me of a song about the Zach brown
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  Speaker 1: Man that goes just a little chicken fry, cold b
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  Speaker 1: are on a Friday night, a pair of pants.
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  Speaker 2: The fits just right. It also, Yeah, I agree with you.
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  Speaker 1: It feels very American such that it reminds me of
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  Speaker 1: the Alan Jackson song where they're like way down yonder
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  Speaker 1: on the chat hooch. Never knew how much I've went to.
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  Speaker 2: Is that that muddy water? How much that much muddy
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  Speaker 2: waters to me? But I learned how to swim, and
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: I learned what a lot about living in a little bit.
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: What the second thing you learned how to do? The swim?
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  Speaker 2: He learned.
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  Speaker 1: I learned how to swim, and I learned who I
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  Speaker 1: was who I was living in a little bit.
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  Speaker 2: See, I was picturing its sort of like the mud
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  Speaker 2: skipper emerging from the water and swimming and then immediately
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  Speaker 2: sprouting legs, evolutionarily speaking down on the chattahoots.
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  Speaker 1: So if you are so Pardner, are very specific references here, folks.
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  Speaker 1: This is not just for our American ridiculous historians in
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  Speaker 1: the crowd. Yeah, hey, right on, brother, But if you
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  Speaker 1: are from the United States or have spent some time
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  Speaker 1: in this country, you are going to recognize this bad boy,
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  Speaker 1: the humble red solo cup instantly. They're at cookouts, there
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  Speaker 1: are picnics, there are house parties, they're at college campuses.
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  Speaker 1: Noll Backwen, our pal Max used to work at the hospitality,
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  Speaker 1: beverage entertainment industry. You would give people plastic cups if
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  Speaker 1: you knew they would break a glass.
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  Speaker 3: We actually had all of our rocks glasses for a
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  Speaker 3: very very very long time. We're just plastic rocks glasses.
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  Speaker 3: It's a very large concerned effort to actually switch them
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  Speaker 3: to real glass like many years later. But we also
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  Speaker 3: were known for being a place that would involve some
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  Speaker 3: fights and a little bit of vomit.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, yes, you learn who you was. Yeah, a little vomit.
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  Speaker 1: Ben.
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  Speaker 2: By the way, research associated shortened air on this particular topic.
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  Speaker 2: I grew up in the shadow of a Dixie cup
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  Speaker 2: factory in my hometown of Augusta, Georgia, where the building,
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  Speaker 2: the facade of the building looks like a giant cup.
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  Speaker 2: Amazing phenomenal. Yeah, and I think there's Dixie down in Dixie.
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  Speaker 2: Dixie plays into this, Yes.
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  Speaker 1: Very much so, Noel, you're correct. The solo cup that
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  Speaker 1: you are going to see in film and fiction and
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  Speaker 1: television shows today, it's ubiquitous, it's cheap, disposable, it's pretty
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  Speaker 1: bad for the environment. It is super convenient. It's one
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  Speaker 1: of those inventions we take for granted. I remember a
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  Speaker 1: few episodes ago we were talking about how we all
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  Speaker 1: took cups for granted. But we have to remember that
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  Speaker 1: somebody at some point in history looked at water and said,
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  Speaker 1: what if I could take this somewhere?
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  Speaker 2: Oh, a vessel perhaps, right? Right? We were so appressed.
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  Speaker 2: What if it didn't leak? Right? What if it was
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  Speaker 2: not a sieve?
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  Speaker 1: Why are we dedicating an entire episode to solo cups today?
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  Speaker 1: It's because there is more to these cups that meets
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  Speaker 1: the eye, the red Solo cup in particular, and it
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  Speaker 1: is a brand name owned by a place called the
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  Speaker 1: Dark Corporation. Now it has become this ambassador for American culture.
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  Speaker 1: It's celebrated or venerated. If we want to use that
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  Speaker 1: word across the planet. How do we get there? We
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  Speaker 1: got to start at the beginning. You absolutely nailed it.
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  Speaker 2: Null. It really starts with Dixie cups. So to your point,
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  Speaker 2: Ben about you know, glassware versus disposable cups. It takes
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  Speaker 2: for granted that there was a time where disposable cups
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  Speaker 2: just weren't a thing, dude, not even individual cups. Maybe
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  Speaker 2: at the dentist, you know, where you'd spit into something,
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  Speaker 2: or like those tiny cups you'd see at the water cooler,
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  Speaker 2: but it wasn't as much of an ubiquitous thing. At barbecues,
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  Speaker 2: people would have like plastic, stacky reusable cups or glassware.
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  Speaker 2: Way before this man.
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  Speaker 1: This is one of the first ridiculous facts of the
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  Speaker 1: day of this episode. Individual cups, folks, were not always
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  Speaker 1: a thing. It wasn't until the early twentieth century that
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  Speaker 1: people in the United States figured out cups for yourselves. Uh,
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  Speaker 1: it was common it was commonplace for the public to
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  Speaker 1: use communal cups. They called them ten dippers. So instead
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  Speaker 1: of a water fountain at your railway station or a
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  Speaker 1: public building, there would be a barrel of standing water
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  Speaker 1: and there would be a little ten thing that looks
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  Speaker 1: like kind of a ladle exactly.
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  Speaker 2: I've certainly seen that depicted in I want to say
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  Speaker 2: dead would those kinds of shows, but yeah, I mean
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  Speaker 2: you would literally just scoop yourself up a swig and
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  Speaker 2: guzzle it down. It's a lot like what does perpetual stew?
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  Speaker 1: Yes, Oh, distressingly so, man, because this was a pool
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  Speaker 1: for all the germs. It was before the invention of
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  Speaker 1: the water fountains you will see in schools and hospitals today,
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  Speaker 1: which people still call dirty. This stuff, this communal idea
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  Speaker 1: was cheap to manufacture, but it was a disaster for
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  Speaker 1: public health because think about it, all it takes is
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  Speaker 1: one thirsty guy with a communicable disease to.
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  Speaker 2: Hit that little tin dipper, and their mouths are gross,
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  Speaker 2: even the circumstances reminkable diseases assigned. Yeah, all it.
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  Speaker 1: Took was one thirsty person and everybody after that person
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  Speaker 1: who hit up that communal tin dipper was going to
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  Speaker 1: be exposed to all sorts of nasty conditions. The buffins
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  Speaker 1: of the day, like the biologists, the public health folks,
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  Speaker 1: they embraced what we know as germ theory. By the
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  Speaker 1: eighteen nineties they said, yeah, this is real. The things
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  Speaker 1: that are too small for your eye to see can
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  Speaker 1: transmit between you. They can kill you. Microscopic organisms, bacteria, virus,
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  Speaker 1: but similar to the covid pandemic which continues today. Most
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  Speaker 1: Americans in the late eighteen hundreds, early nineteen hundreds, they
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  Speaker 1: still fought against the idea. They were like, who are
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  Speaker 1: these nerds? If I can't see it, if I can't
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  Speaker 1: smell it, why would it make me sick?
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  Speaker 2: Get out of here, pencil neck egghead? Get out of here.
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  Speaker 1: And this is where we have on to the stage
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  Speaker 1: of history. Strolling two brothers in law, Lawrence Llewellyn and
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  Speaker 1: Hugh Moore that's his real name. I have to note
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  Speaker 1: this because you know I love a dumb joke, nol
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  Speaker 1: Hugh Hugh Moore Moore, But Hugh Moore, that's his real name.
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  Speaker 2: Was he a funny guy? Do you think? I hope
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  Speaker 2: so it was a fun guy. I hope so.
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  Speaker 1: Was his brother in law. Lawrence was a lawyer in Boston,
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  Speaker 1: and one of Lawrence's clients was this physician. And this
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  Speaker 1: physician came up and asked the same thing that you
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  Speaker 1: were talking about earlier. He said, Look, I got a
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  Speaker 1: lot of tuberculosis patients. I need easily disposable cups so
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  Speaker 1: I can test their fluids or spoot them.
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  Speaker 2: Jesus, yeah, man spewed them. That's sort of like the
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  Speaker 2: froth that is ejected from one's lips when speaking a
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  Speaker 2: little too robustly. Yeah, taker, shout out to Doc Holiday. Right.
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  Speaker 1: So our buddy, who is again an attorney in Boston,
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  Speaker 1: he creates this small, pleated, wax coded paper cup, and
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  Speaker 1: then he further comes up with this idea of or cups,
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  Speaker 1: up with this idea of a vending machine. Right, so
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  Speaker 1: you put a penny in this awkward looking porcelain device,
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  Speaker 1: it will dispense a cup made of wax coded paper
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  Speaker 1: filled with cold water. This is the ancestor of the
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  Speaker 1: modern dixie cup.
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  Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I don't. And again, those little mouthwashed cups,
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  Speaker 2: the little dentist cups that we remember from our childhood,
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  Speaker 2: wax coated I remember that distinct tactile sensation of a
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  Speaker 2: waxy cup. I even remember scratching on him, making little
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  Speaker 2: etchings or whatever. It doesn't seem like those are nearly
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  Speaker 2: as popular anymore. You don't see the waxy cups as much.
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  Speaker 2: Maybe in a water cooler, but even nowadays you see
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  Speaker 2: more little plastic ridged cups in the water dispenser in
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  Speaker 2: an officer like a waiting room.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah and okay, so this guy's brother in law, Hugh
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  Speaker 1: Moore never not funny name. Sorry about history there, Bud,
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  Speaker 1: but he was. This guy is a pretty smart dude.
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  Speaker 1: He had actually moved into the neighborhood in Boston to
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  Speaker 1: go to Harvard, but as soon as he learned about
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  Speaker 1: this cup idea, he dropped out of one of the
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  Speaker 1: best schools in the nation to help with this business,
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  Speaker 1: and he got into politics. He joined the progressive movement
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  Speaker 1: at the time to abolish ten dippers.
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  Speaker 2: What a cost. I think we can all support that. No,
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  Speaker 2: no more ten dippers. It's fun to stillboards, share cups.
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  Speaker 2: But also little self interested right, I mean absolutely was
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  Speaker 2: he was lobbying. Yes, I mean he had a business
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  Speaker 2: plan that would directly benefit from the abolition of the
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  Speaker 2: ten dipper and it also happened to align with the
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  Speaker 2: greater good.
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  Speaker 1: Yes, happened to is the perfect phrase. It's nineteen oh
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  Speaker 1: eight and the brothers in law they incorporate something they
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  Speaker 1: call the American Water Supply Company of New England, and
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  Speaker 1: their whole business is creating, installing, and servicing these vending
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  Speaker 1: machines that will give you a paper cup of water
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  Speaker 1: for one penny.
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  Speaker 2: One single penny. Writing for Canals, historian Martha Capwell Fox
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  Speaker 2: put it this way. The same year, a Lafayette College
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  Speaker 2: biology professor Alvin Davison published Death in School Drinking Cups
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  Speaker 2: The Lurid. The title was understated compared to the results
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  Speaker 2: of his study of illness and Eastern school children as
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  Speaker 2: a result of common cup hyphenated contamination CCC. Yeah, yeah,
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  Speaker 2: she goes on paraphrasing here. He found, Davison that classroom
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  Speaker 2: cups were absolutely riddled, as you like to say, ben
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  Speaker 2: with germs, causing everything from colds and flus to more
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  Speaker 2: serious conditions that didn't even have vaccinations. I believe at
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  Speaker 2: the time, things like chicken pox and diphtheria. I mean,
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  Speaker 2: we already know that schools, especially elementary and middle are
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  Speaker 2: already breeding grounds for these kinds of illnesses, let alone
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  Speaker 2: introducing shared you know, spit troughs into the.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, he reminds me of how every year, without fail,
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  Speaker 1: one of my friend's children will get hoof and mouth disease,
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  Speaker 1: foot and mouth disease.
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  Speaker 2: Like, why is that a thing? This guy that we're.
• 14:15
  Speaker 3: Mouth humans, but foot foot mouth definitely is.
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  Speaker 2: That's the one we're looking for.
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  Speaker 3: And the real name of it is cocksacky virus.
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  Speaker 2: Phones bags And he dropped in the knowledge.
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  Speaker 1: It's just for you.
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  Speaker 2: So good there we go, all right, what's your mouth? Right?
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  Speaker 1: So most children, human children do not have hoofs. We
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  Speaker 1: have confirmed it here for the first time. This guy,
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  Speaker 1: this professor Alvin Davidson, found that, look, there is a problem.
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  Speaker 1: He went to various public health institutions, various political outfits,
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  Speaker 1: and said, you know what's really smart, This guy Llewellyn
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  Speaker 1: has invented a vending machine with disposable paper cups. And
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  Speaker 1: so state after state begins passing laws that ban those
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  Speaker 1: shared cups, those tin dippers, and railroads start saying, hey,
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: if we want to look fancy, we're going to put
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  Speaker 1: something like this in our passenger cars. We'll have a
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: closed tank of water in each car. These guys are
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  Speaker 1: blowing up, dude. This is like, this is like when
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: podcasts became a thing. It's nineteen oh nine. The guys
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: have to move past Boston. They move their operation to
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  Speaker 1: New York City, where they eventually get New York City.
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  Speaker 2: But also the most clever name for any company ever,
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  Speaker 2: I have to say, the Individual Drinking Cup Company. That's
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  Speaker 2: almost as good as the company the Individual Drinking Cup
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  Speaker 2: Company of New York's. Yea, we needed to know where
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  Speaker 2: they were headquartered.
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  Speaker 1: Right, They had to put it in the name, apparently,
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  Speaker 1: and their business skyrockets. A few years later, they're selling
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  Speaker 1: something they're calling the health Cup with a K, and
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  Speaker 1: they make a lot of money during the influenza epidemic
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  Speaker 1: of nineteen eighteen. But they're still not called Dixie cups.
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  Speaker 1: So riddle us this know. How did they become called
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  Speaker 1: Dixie cups?
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  Speaker 2: It's kind of weird, man. I didn't know this at all,
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  Speaker 2: but mister Moore had the idea that the term Dixie
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  Speaker 2: might be a positive association to make with the cup
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  Speaker 2: because of the Civil War and the Dixie dollar. It
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  Speaker 2: was a type of yeah currency that was used. They
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  Speaker 2: called it the what is it the French French dix
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  Speaker 2: yayya French word for ted uh huh okay. I wish
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  Speaker 2: I was in Dixie. Hooray, hooray Dixie l I don't
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  Speaker 2: know about all that, guys, but at the time it
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  Speaker 2: seemed like it was gonna hit. But unfortunately there was
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: already a doll company. Yeah, that's right, like dolls, like
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: like QB Dolls, but you know, not that brand that
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  Speaker 2: bore the name Dixie, the Dixie Doll Company, of course.
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  Speaker 2: And so he asked the doll maker laureate there if
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  Speaker 2: he could borrow the business name Dixie and use it
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  Speaker 2: as a marketing tool, because he figured that adding that
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: very popular and zeitgeisty name word to it was going
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: to convey a sense of reliability, kind of finding because
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: no one only no one really talks about the Dixie
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  Speaker 2: Buck anymore. But I guess at the time it was
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  Speaker 2: it made sense. It would read as like, oh, this
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: is an old trustee that's gonna get us through the
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: hard times.
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  Speaker 1: It's kind of like naming your disposable cup old reliable.
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  Speaker 2: Because just so they should put that in the name
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  Speaker 2: of the company.
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  Speaker 1: They should have Maybe they didn't they didn't have the
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  Speaker 1: space to print it.
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  Speaker 2: The old reliable Dixie Cup Company of New York. Oh wow, perfect.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, the French issued a currency in Louisiana, or was
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: French language prior to the Civil War. So it's a
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  Speaker 1: weird thing for our buddy Hugh Moore to seek out.
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: It is out of the box thinking. This is just
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  Speaker 1: what the company needed. Their reputation as a dixie cup
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: grows over time, and they get this huge boost when
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: soda fountains throughout the United States introduce their own vending machines,
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: kind of automatic machines that can fill a cup with
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: two flavors of ice cream at.
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  Speaker 2: The same time. Nice. Nice, right forward to the future,
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: sure a girl.
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, just so, we're not at Neapolitan just yet.
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: But we're on the way. This is also quite soft serve,
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: it's not. I believe you're correct. You know, we should
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: do we should do a history of soft serve because
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: there's a lot of interesting technology and cultural significance in
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: soft serve. You know that really popular thing in Japan.
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: There's like a whole milk based soft serve. The people
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: are screaming about it finally made its way over here.
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: I would love to know about all of those things.
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: We should do it.
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: That's an excellent idea, Nol. We also know that there
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: was a new kind of cup that came along with
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: all these new ice cream machines. It is called the
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: ice cream Dixie. It's still the same cup, and the
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: Dixie brand is around today. But this is not answering
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: our question about the solo cups. So while the Dixie company,
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: or while this paper cup manufact company is blowing up,
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: there is a guy who works there named Leo Holsman.
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  Speaker 1: It's yeah, yeah, this is our solo cup guy. By
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  Speaker 1: the way, Ben, there's apparently even a historical debate on
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: who invented soft serve, So we've got to do it.
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: We have to. There's a lot of science behind it. Sorry,
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: just putting that out there. It's between Tom Carvel and
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: Dairy Queen, the big beef, the soft served beef. So
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: we'll get to that in a future episode. Feels real
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: pepsi versus coke, It really does. So, as you said, Ben,
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  Speaker 2: we've got Leo Holtzman Hoolsman entering the Chat nineteen thirty six.
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: He ventured out on his own and founded another brilliantly
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: descriptively named paper container Manufacturing Company, not of Chicago. It
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: wasn't in the name, but it was in Chicago. And
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: by this point a lot of folks were trying to
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: get into the old paper cup game. There was a
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: boom time for the big cup. Yeah again like podcast.
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: During the pandemic, public opinion grew increasingly on board with
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: germ theory. Paper cups are a huge business, and their
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: business is often supported by the medical community and politicians.
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: So what we're saying here is if there was ever
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: a tin dipper communal cup lobby, they were done for
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: at this point. Holsman's the paper container Manufacturing Company. Again,
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: weird name. I agree with you. There they created a
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: signature item. It was not read, it was not round.
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: It was a cone, so very familiar to the kind
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: of cone paper you might see it a dentist office.
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: Right. That's right, Then you really nailed it, because I
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: wasn't even hearkening back that far. But that's certainly you're
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: triggering a core memory from me because the earlier days
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: were a come. But problem there is you can't set
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: a cone.
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: Down, no, just throw it away, right, It's a paper
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: cone for a limited time.
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: It was Aldso that's kind of a feature, not a bug,
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: isn't it. You don't want people setting them down. You
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: want them drinking it once and then tossing it because
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: it was a built in safeguard from maybe somebody accidentally
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: sharing it.
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because you can't put it on the table. God forbid,
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: there'd be some sketchy dude who rocks up and sees
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: a sees a paper cup of unidentified liquid and says,
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: is that tuberculosis?
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: Spit mary over right? But you know it's funny. Then
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: those paper cones did still get some use at places
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: like diners who invented these little little cone holder things.
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: So you'd have a cone full of say French fries
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: or even a moll and it would be in one
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: of these paper cones, and then the cone would go
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: in these weird little little uh what do you call
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: it caddies kind of you know, okay, yeah, kind of
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: defeats the purpose a little bit. Yeah, that's maybe that's
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: discussion for another. It's a good way to serve fries.
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: Also, we have to emphasize that these little guys, these
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: cone cups, they were called solo cups first, meaning cups
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: you don't have to share with strangers, just for you,
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: just for you.
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: This Solo cups, Solo Dolo and Solo You.
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: And so Solo went on to make other innovations. They
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: made disposable coffee cups. They made the cups that you
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: will see in movie theaters, fast food restaurants. So if
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: you go to a theater and you get a medium soda,
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: or you go to a fast food place and you
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: order a drink with your combo meal, you'll see that
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: the inner and outer lining is wax. That's the Solo cup.
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: Guys. They're the ones who figured that out. But it
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: wasn't until the nineteen seventies that Leo's son, Robert Leo Hoolseman,
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: decided to do a little bit of rebranding because you know,
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: when we think of the Solo cup, we always think
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: of the quintessentially fire engine red version. Kim Healy, who
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: is the VP of Consumer Business for Solo in twenty eleven,
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: actually admits that the history might be considered a little
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: bit sketchy, a little bit of a gray area. However,
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: the company does maintain we know we were one of
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: the first to introduce a party cup, so making it right,
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: was just making it fun. It's a fun cup, a
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: party cup that sounds so crazy. I have a party.
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: We've been in a lot of situations, folks, the three
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: of us over the years, and we have walked into
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: places where someone says, oh, do you have your badge,
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: do you have your bracelet or whatever, here's your party cup.
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: We've been in those situations.
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: Well.
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: The funny thing about these these cups as well, Ben,
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: is they're practically I mean, are you not supposed to
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: dishwash them? I feel like they're not gonna melt if
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: they're top dishwasher top top exactly. They're top rack.
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: So I mean, it's sort of like they're becoming less
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: disposable at this point, but it's more a product of
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: consumerism that they're still considered disposable.
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: It's interesting. It's just sort of a cheap plastic cup
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: that is fun looking, right.
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: Steve Stevenson, writing for Slate back in twenty eleven, describes
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: it as the Sherman Tank of disposable mealware. It is
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: made of a thick, molded, specific type of polystyrene, and
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: it gets uh, let's just.
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: Give you the pack. Oh he's good. This is good writing.
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: Okay, so he says, quote, the Sulu party cup could
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: be squeezed in meadi frat guy pauls it could be
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: dropped to the ground by tipsy high school cheerleaders and
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: mercilessly battered by flip cup contestants all the wild, maintaining
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: shape and functionality. It was stiffer and more resilient than
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: competitor party cups like Dixies.
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: Just squeeze it.
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: Throw it, drop it, flip it, bop it, et cetera.
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: The Solo cup.
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: And it's so funny because it's just as simple as
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: like making a cup a color that was innovation at
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: the time. What if what if they were a color? Right?
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: And then he's got to pick one, and they went
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: with red, and Solo company representatives told Slay that the
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: red cups make up about sixty percent of Solo Party
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: cup sales to this day, with the distantly second blue
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: cups as the runner up. Right. Yeah, And they've tested
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: over and over again, no matter what colors or designs
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: they try, it just seems like the red Solo cup
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: just really stuck. That's the thing.
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean you can see blue cups, as you said,
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: yellow cups I've seen some green ones in the same design.
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: Maybe why red. Maybe it's because it is the expected color.
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: At this point, I was people are creatures of habit
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: right and tradition and legacy. So maybe, for example, we
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: could imagine how off putting it would be to walk
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: through your favorite store and you see your usual can
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: of Coca cola but it's blue, or you see your
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: usual can of pepsi but it's red. You know you
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: you wouldn't trust it.
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: No, No, that's why I like. I mean, sometimes brand
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: recognition is more important than the quality of the product
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: quite often.
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: Actually, there's also this color theory argument. We've talked about
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: this a little bit in the past. The argument of
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: color theory proposes that there are certain hues or certain
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: colors that incite immediate primal reactions and human psychology. So
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: red in color theory would signify the ideas of things
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: like high energy or passion or emotional and redsity yes,
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: seeing red, yeah, And blue is more tranquility and depth
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: or consideration or thought. And I believe they say that
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: yellow it makes you hungry. So combining red for that
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: excitement and yellow for hunger makes a whole lot of
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: sense for the golden arches.
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: You know. That's a great point. Yeah.
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: And also yellow in large amounts can apparently make people
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: panic a little. So that's why you always felt weird
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: in a yellow kitchen, folks. Apollo gets it, Pile gets it.
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: So perhaps if color theory holds, a red colored cup
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: just feels psychologically somehow more correct for your next frat rager.
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: You know what I mean. It's the associations, man, And
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: I mean like when I think of beer pong, which
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: I've never in my life participated in, I think of
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: red solo cups, and they even sell little small versions
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: that are specifically for like shots or for those kind
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: of games.
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: We both spent a lot of time in Athens, Georgia.
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: And you know what's funny. I never went to fraternity.
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: I was never in a college that had fraternities. I
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: never went to frat parties when I was actually of
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: college age. But when I moved to Athens as a adult,
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: I had some younger friends who invited me to these
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: frat parties that I went to more a sociological experiments,
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: and man, red solo cups were everywhere.
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: Yes, Debri Gore, Yeah, solo keg cups. In particular, they
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: hold more liquid than competing cups. They have an eighteen
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: ounce flush fill. The company calls it as opposed to
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: the sixteen outs fill offered by their competitors. So let's
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: exercise empathy if we're a college kid with a perishing
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: third and not much in the way of cash. The
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: big cups maximize the amount of cheap beer you can
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: scarf at a single time, which is why they're at
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: every party and they're grippy, and they're grippy, you're pounding
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: it back for knocking them back, as they say.
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they evolved.
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: Now the current cup model has four grips, one on
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: each side for indentations.
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: Which is funny though because they still, to the naked eye,
• 30:27
  Speaker 2: appear round. They're not like square cups. But they have
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: these edges. It's a pretty clever design, if I'm being honest. Yeah,
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: it's a very clever design. The earlier versions had ridges
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: that people made folklore about, like the red cup has
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: become folklore. The idea was you could measure liquid. You
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: could even if you needed to mix cocktails based on
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: the ridges. The horizontal ridges in the solo cup, and
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: there are some substance abuse educators that even say college
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: students should use the lines in the solo cup to
• 31:07
  Speaker 2: monitor how much alcohol they are ingesting. Pretty weird. Good
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: luck getting them to do that, right.
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: But this is not the end of the story. As
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: we tease, Nola, I think you did a beautiful job
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: in this. In particular, as we tease, the United States
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: is more than just home to the Solo cups. It's
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: also home to one of the world's largest, most successful
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: entertainment industries. It's been one of Uncle Sam's largest exports
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: post World War Two, up there with the arms trade
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: and the defense industry. So if you are European or
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: Australia and South America, if you are heck, a person
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: from any but the United States, you will see so
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: many films and TV shows that feature red solo cups
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: at every party. This became more than a product, It
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: became a symbol. Like when I can't remember the last
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: time you were in Europe. The last time I was
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: in Europe, I did go to an American party. They
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: had solo cups as a themed prop, and weirdly a
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: lot of peanut butter.
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: You know, there's this arcade that I love to go
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: to called Round One that specializes in a lot of
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: kind of more obscure Japanese cabinet games and rhythm games.
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: And there is a Japanese game that is a beer
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: pong simulator that absolutely has read solo cups, but not
• 32:49
  Speaker 2: actually branded. It's just that's the look, because that is
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: how they see us.
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: That's the folklore, you know. And it's weird because a
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: lot of people might travel to the US and look
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: for low cost souvenirs instead of partying and chucking the
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: cups in the trash the way so many people in
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: the States do. Folks in Europe wash them, put them
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: in the top rack of the dishwasher, and then reuse them.
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: This does not seem to be the result of a conspiracy,
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: does not seem to be the result of a backroom
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: deal or some crazy awesome Bernese level pr campaign. These
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: cups are cheap, handy, convenient, ubiquitous. Now they're thoroughly American.
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: We even mentioned at the top Toby Keith, who recorded
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: a weirdly addictive homage to the Red Solo Cup in
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: twenty eleven. So, now, for better or worse, this is
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: a piece of Americana. I don't know how it works
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: for everybody in this wide, beautiful country of ours, but
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: we do have to debunk one thing. The lines on
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: the cups. Man, I think they're plastic extrusion. And then
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: later the Solo Cup company went back and said, here
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: will publish a guide to how to measure stuff.
• 34:15
  Speaker 2: But they do acknowledge that it was arbitrary and that
• 34:19
  Speaker 2: they were sort of just I kind of give them
• 34:21
  Speaker 2: props for this, you know, the point that you made
• 34:25
  Speaker 2: about how much liquor you should consume, how much wine
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: or how much beer. They say, what you've seen in
• 34:30
  Speaker 2: this advertisements. The real understanding of lines on Solo cup
• 34:34
  Speaker 2: from the Solo company, not true or an original part
• 34:38
  Speaker 2: of Solo cup design, but surprisingly accurate. Yeah.
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah. They have a great breakdown of an old school
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: Solo cup, the one without the grips, but the one
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: that does have the lines over the cup. They have
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: one picture that says, twelve ounces of beer. That's the
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: help me out here.
• 35:00
  Speaker 2: In the third line down, there's a double line around
• 35:04
  Speaker 2: the ridge and there's two big lines, so it would
• 35:06
  Speaker 2: be the second big line would be like, okay, that'd
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: be your fill line for around twelve ounces of beer.
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: Okay, and then five ounces they have lower wine. They
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: have one ounce for liquor. But then they go to
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: the next picture and they have the same beer line
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: twelve ounces and they say this is the amount of
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: water you should drink five times a day, and then.
• 35:31
  Speaker 2: Then five ounces for cereal standard serving of cereal, and
• 35:34
  Speaker 2: then one ounce. I love this because it's the same
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: as a shot of liquor. So you know, if you
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: if you're out of liquor and you want to just
• 35:40
  Speaker 2: pound some mouthwash, the same amount h super christ, Wow,
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: a pretty solid amount of mouthwash each morning. Do not
• 35:49
  Speaker 2: drink it. I was joking.
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: And they also give you other things like five ounces
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: a perfect amount of juice for kids. One out, this
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: is how much chocolate syrup you need to make chocolate milk. Look,
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: these folks are selling.
• 36:06
  Speaker 2: Cups, no doubt that hard doing a fine job of it.
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and we do know that obviously, this kind of
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: mass production can be controversial because these cups are made
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: from number six thermoplastic polystyrene. It is multiple, it is ductile,
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: it's very cheap to make it, but it is also
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: very difficult to recycle it.
• 36:30
  Speaker 2: And it's inside of all of our bodies.
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: And all your bits, and these profits from the Solo Cup,
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: we're happy to report have helped make the world a
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: better place in other ways. The guy you mentioned earlier,
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: Noel Hulsman Senior, was super big on philanthropy. He donated
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: a ton of his money to Catholic education, to anti
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: poverty initiatives, and religious unities.
• 37:01
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: I didn't know that you never played flip cup. Well,
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: I played the game at the arcade.
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: Ha. Yes, well, okay, good for anyone that doesn't know, though, Ben,
• 37:11
  Speaker 2: Oh sorry, flip cups different. I played the beer pong
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: simulator for anyone that doesn't know, myself included. I don't
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: think I know what flip cup is.
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: Flip cup is where you have to take a standing
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: cup and then flip it perfectly upside down. Oh, kind
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: of like a bottle flip right, Yeah, just so on
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: a horizontal surface.
• 37:30
  Speaker 2: And at which point you're punished or rewarded by having
• 37:33
  Speaker 2: to take a drink.
• 37:33
  Speaker 3: The beer and you put it down. You have to
• 37:35
  Speaker 3: flip it.
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and if you flinch, you have to marry your
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: mother in law.
• 37:40
  Speaker 2: Got it. Yeah, it's a it's a it's a reference too.
• 37:43
  Speaker 2: I think you should leave. We're a lot of fun
• 37:45
  Speaker 2: at parties. Next, how do we have a car with
• 37:48
  Speaker 2: steering wheel? It doesn't fly off, fly out your hands
• 37:52
  Speaker 2: and you turn it. I don't know how goes look
• 37:55
  Speaker 2: at me, admits it.
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: So thank you so much for tuning in, fellow ridiculous historians.
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: We had a great time with this one. We hope
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: you tune in as we continue to explore the ridiculous
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: history of potatoes. Max, you've got some background on this
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: holp we do overall with red solo cups.
• 38:16
  Speaker 3: You did them well, you served them well.
• 38:19
  Speaker 2: I will say that they've served us well, you know.
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: Big thanks to our super producer, mister Max Williams. Big
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: thanks to Alex Williams who composed this slap and bop.
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: Big thanks to everybody who is playing flip cup tonight
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: right now?
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: Noel? Who else? Well, first of all, drink responsibly when
• 38:39
  Speaker 2: playing flip cup or beer pong or you know, attending
• 38:44
  Speaker 2: frat parties. Gosh, who else? You know? Who we heard
• 38:47
  Speaker 2: from today via email our buddy the puzzler A J.
• 38:51
  Speaker 2: Bahamas Jacobs. I think we're going to get him to
• 38:53
  Speaker 2: come back around real soon. Jonathan Strickland aka the Quist
• 38:58
  Speaker 2: who he did not hear from today.
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: And big thanks, of course to our returning friend of
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: the show, Jordan run Todd. Check him out very soon.
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: We're gonna be getting weird with Elvis. Big thanks to
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: the rude dudes over a ridiculous crime. If you dug
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: our story about Dali and Rikers Island, you will.
• 39:20
  Speaker 2: Love these folks.
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: So hie thee to a podcast platform of your choice
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: check him out ed. You know what, I'll say it.
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: We can prank them a little bit, Nola Max. Just
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: write to them and challenge them to a game of
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: flip cup.
• 39:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and Ben, thanks to you for the research on
• 39:37
  Speaker 2: this one. I thoroughly enjoyed it. Oh Man, same thanks.
• 39:42
  Speaker 2: Heck yeah, We'll see you next time. Folks. For more
• 39:51
  Speaker 2: podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or
• 39:55
  Speaker 2: wherever you listen to your favorite shows.