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Women in Leadership & International Networking with Kristin Engvig · Authentic Living

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  Welcome to authentic living with Roxanne, a place where we have as conversations about
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  things that really matter in our lives.
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  And now here's your host, Roxanne Derhodge.
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  Hi, everyone.
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  It's Roxanne Derhartch.
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  Thanks for tuning in again this week.
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  Today, I have a special colleague, Christian Envig, here with us.
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  She's in Switzerland and she's gonna talk to us today about an amazing organization that she
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  started 25 years ago.
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  That's a Kristen, that's a long time to be dealing with women in leadership.
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  So thanks for coming, coming on to have this call.
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  With us today.
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  Thank you.
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  It's an honor to be here with you and to share my journey and to be in conversation with you
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  as well.
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  So, you know, I think, for the last couple of years, there's been pain points that have been
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  highlighted that clearly globally, we need to focus on certain things.
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  Obviously, you know, diversity and inclusion, female issues obviously with the woman, leaving
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  unfortunately, positions in droves because of the pressures that they've been under those
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  types of things.
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  I wanna talk a little bit about 25 years ago.
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  So I'm trying to think of, yeah, what what got you on that path, and I'm gonna save that
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  probably back then.
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  That may have been a a lonely or quieter path without a knowledge back then.
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  So what got you working with women.
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  Yes.
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  It's a it's a very interesting thing.
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  Sometimes I've wondered too, but I I will share three sort of triggering, moments in my life
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  that made me start doing this and one was I was working at straight out of an MBA.
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  I started working banking.
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  The top firms are doing, you know, the the the kind of right job at the time when that was the
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  thing to do.
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  But working there, I felt felt I was good at my job technically speaking, but I found that
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  there was something in the environment that didn't really fit.
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  I didn't feel happy.
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  I didn't feel thriving and I didn't there was something as if I wore a suit that wasn't mine
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  that didn't fit me.
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  So I didn't know.
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  I couldn't pinpoint.
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  I couldn't say why, and I didn't even think it had anything to do with gender.
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  I thought maybe because I was young, it was difficult to be heard maybe because I was a
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  foreigner.
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  I wasn't listened to.
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  There were many things I had in my mind.
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  Now, I left at a certain point reading pincola Estes book on women running with and the ugly
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  duck duckling, which is the story of H.
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  C.
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  Anderson.
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  And then I realized, That story of an ugly duckling who suddenly realized he was or she
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  was a swan, but that's me.
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  So the power of context of being in a place in a culture, in a corporate culture that made me
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  feel like an ugly duckling it was very powerful, and I realized that, why if I am in
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  another context, where I'm more seeing her value than even felt, I can be wary.
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  I'm a swab playing with other swabs and making beauty in the world.
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  Something.
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  I'm I'm, you know, something like that.
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  And then, I quit and I got a job, kinda fast.
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  Someone was looking for teachers to teach thing in Eastern Europe.
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  And I have that was my specialization in school, and this was this European Union funded
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  projects to make Eastern Europe get into market economy.
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  So I I was I was jumping on this project and I went to many countries including Russia,
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  Bulgaria, Lithuania, travel around the world.
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  And it was on these trips that I realized that, these bright women didn't always have the same
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  choices as me.
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  And I mean, I've been to Latin America.
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  I've been to Africa.
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  I've been all over.
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  And and that's an origin woman.
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  I grew up in search egalitarian.
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  And such possibilities.
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  I traveled because I wanted to travel.
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  I got educated.
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  The state gives you support.
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  There's I had all the choices.
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  At least I thought so.
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  I also realized I had to work with myself, but there was something that triggered me one time.
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  I was was in in in some little town in Russia, and all the women wanted to get out of there,
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  and and they'd want to be there.
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  I thought,
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  oh, why Why?
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  Why?
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  And I started to to reflect.
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  And and back in Milan where I lived at that time, I was very active in a women's network,
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  which I love because that's where it was became my family, my community, and living away from
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  my home country at the time.
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  I was like, so happy with that family feeding and that networking and that helping each
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  other.
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  So one day, let's do something to for the women.
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  And how about an event where we where we discuss the big picture thing, the world, you
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  know, to make it easier for all women because I've experienced that not all women had choice.
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  And then also, let's look at the workplace.
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  So we are all in a context where we can try because my experience and believe it wasn't
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  always like that.
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  And then at an individual level, let's help each other, let's network, let's create
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  communities, and let's keep learning.
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  So these are sort of the 3 background moments that started me, but it was really like, oh,
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  let's do one.
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  There was a one off event, and it was very impactful.
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  And people wanted it again.
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  And then Lady from IBM was sitting next to me and she said, oh, next time, if you do it
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  again, I can give you the venue.
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  Somebody else came in.
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  I can sponsor you the copy.
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  So it started very much as a kitchen operation as a momentary thing and it continued like that
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  for quite a while until it got too big and we had had to transform it into something more
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  professional.
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  But yeah.
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  So I think naturally, the women I think an it's because we're the way we're socialized.
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  We have that innate capacity to just be around each other and and connect at the profound
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  level.
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  Yeah.
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  And with transformational leadership, what we know is that women bring that to the 4.
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  They they bring that.
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  And sometimes intuitively, they're not even aware that they're doing that.
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  So it sounds like what you did was you kind of recognized, wow, this is a nice space, and I've
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  been I was in corporate for 25 years.
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  And a lot of times, you you know, there's a squickleness prickliness that comes with being
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  in corporate.
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  And as a woman, and I was in my twenties, you you just kinda keep pushing through.
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  Right?
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  Like, Yeah.
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  Well, that's probably not because I'm a woman, but, you know, you try to maybe make up some
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  ideas why potentially you might be being treated this way.
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  25 years ago.
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  Absolutely.
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  Yeah.
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  And and today, we we openly talk about mentors, mentees, you know, you know, all these concepts
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  like a lie ship.
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  So we come a vast we've we've had a vast voyage, and I can see how wind would have been
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  a part of that process.
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  In your early years, what were some of the the limitations that you came up against with
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  having people recognize authentic female leadership.
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  Yeah.
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  I'll yeah.
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  There are many challenges.
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  First of all, and for me, it was also difficult to be young.
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  But then I realized it can be anything because later in life, it can be even difficult that
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  you're older.
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  So whatever excuse it is out there, but it's but I did have that as, as a challenge.
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  This thing of being that young.
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  I brought with me people that were older at me at meetings.
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  Just telling them not to talk.
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  Because maybe they didn't know what they were gonna say, but they look the older.
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  So I tried to bring some I had this particular person with me off to a lot of meetings.
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  When it come to authenticity, I thought that was very interesting.
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  So I started a whole exploration on authenticity And today, also, the whole
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  organization has a tagline, a leadership journey because I've seen that at an individual
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  level.
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  So many of all sorts of work to explore who am I, what is my authentic self and how can I
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  contribute with the with the uniqueness of me?
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  And then I noticed that many women around the whole planet are part of doing that too.
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  So it's also a collecting of pricing of women, longing at least to be more authentic.
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  And but what I saw that was so difficult is that this corporate cultures or even even
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  political cultures, even in society, there's so many systems that have been designed, the whole
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  architect of our societies and particularly many cultures are made by this sort of
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  musculine or the the muscling way of thinking.
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  And and the even women, we have grown up in these cultures and believing too that this is
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  okay, and it's the way it's supposed to be.
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  So only when we start exploring who am I and learning about more of the feminine musculine
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  balance, we start thinking, oh, yeah.
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  Maybe there is another way.
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  So but the challenges I think have been on many levels, one in society level, but 2 also, being
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  for my generation at least amongst the early people starting this exploration.
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  Nothing.
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  You also have been amongst the early ones.
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  So when you started that work early, there were a few other people understanding.
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  What I was talking about.
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  So then even the women themselves could be a hinder somehow because they were also very keen
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  on being accepted into the corporate cultures into the political cultures instead of, trying
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  to take out their own way.
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  And of course, I've learned that we didn't we need to balance it a little bit because we need
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  to also fit in a little bit and then slowly start changing.
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  This this balance, but this consciousness is awareness about what's going on it was really,
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  really important.
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  I found that sometimes female executives, in my early career, was sometimes the most difficult
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  colleagues to find my grounding with.
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  And at at times, you know, the male colleagues were actually easier to kind of accept you,
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  into that space.
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  And so definitely I know now with, younger female, leaders, they're they're constantly
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  looking at sponsorship and how they can assist.
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  So it's It's such a refreshing, space now, you know, like you said, with the newer generation
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  to look at them and go, and then when they openly say, how can I how can I help, in the
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  different, you know, masterminds or Forbes where I'm involved with, and you will open to
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  hear female CEOs start talking about, you know, their their real journey, not the journey that
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  the public sees, but they will openly talk about you know, when I started my business or
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  when I sat on that board and and and so it's, you know, it's it's interesting?
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  So back, you know, in the nineties, when I was in corporate, you're you're quite literally
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  keeping so much in because you're trying to not show that vulnerability because Yeah.
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  The perception and sometimes the reality is If you were too vulnerable, it means you couldn't
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  handle it.
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  Yeah.
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  And and the, you know, the doors that should have been open for you, something that's got
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  shut because of that space.
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  So Yeah.
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  Yeah.
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  You know, now when you think about that, right, like, and and kind of where we're at.
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  How is it that you think corporates, or different environments with female leaders are
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  accepting that element of vulnerability?
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  Yeah.
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  So since the early start when we were sort of preaching that at the wind conference, And when
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  it was in a way, a complete revolution, right, was that revolution?
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  And I feel that wind was also pioneering a lot of mistakes because it was even before Renee
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  Brown and everybody.
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  So now when you have thousands of people having read or millions, Renee Brown, on
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  vulnerability, and this is a corporate text, let's say.
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  One would believe that now in corporate, one is more open to it.
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  But it's hard because I think we are in these incredible shifts because I meet the network
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  because conference participant many, many are coming in from corporations.
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  So amid this amazing humans that are open vulnerable on their authentic path.
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  And a working group.
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  And at the same time, in the same corporations, you still have some We're playing with the and,
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  you know, taking advantage doing political.
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  Yeah.
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  So I think at the moment, you have this spoke and we see that also outside in society, it's a
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  it's a it's incredible group of people now.
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  They're becoming more conscious, more heart based, and more authentic.
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  And the other part is also still there.
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  So So I think it's very exciting.
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  What's happening on the one side now with all these amazing people coming up and who are then
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  COVID played a big role.
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  It's locked down now.
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  You can use different language that before weren't even accepted.
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  But the other part is still there too.
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  So so it's it's, yeah, the contrast is is is getting wider, but I do have a lot of hope that
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  that it's impossible.
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  So you have still have that juxtaposition but we've we've so far we've come so far along.
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  Yeah.
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  So what I'm curious about is for fee emerging leaders.
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  Yeah.
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  I would say if if
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  for emerging female leaders, my I would say you're in the right time.
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  Right?
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  Yeah.
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  Yes.
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  Yeah.
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  You can you can kind of strategically plan where you wanna be.
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  Yeah.
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  Yes.
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  However, however in certain sectors, we can agree that that divide is still exists.
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  Yes.
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  It does.
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  So let's say you're a female emerging leader and you're, you know, you've kind of have a a
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  good kind of tenure behind you, but you're looking to go forward.
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  And maybe you're going into, you know, an an arena that is maybe more, like you said, for
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  with the male concept of leadership.
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  What kind of things might you can suggests that these female leaders think about as they
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  approach those environments versus deterring away from them altogether.
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  Yes.
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  So if you choose to be there and plan to be there, I think it's is a great opportunity in
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  one way to learn about how those environments work.
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  And be very aware, of ring fencing, so to speak, time to reflect and to take care of
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  yourself.
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  I noticed myself, but I was in in a very push environment in a bank where everything was very
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  fast.
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  I remember my husband at the time telling me how rude I had become.
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  Yeah.
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  So it was on the page floor and you're, you know, and I didn't notice I have become like
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  that.
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  And and, so I think that you have to be very alert in the wake to the power of culture and
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  context.
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  So and and using this bow, now learn to play learn to be gender bilingual.
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  As my friend, Aviso, it's like, we can learn the main way.
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  We can learn the feminine way and and the whole human beings that can play on front.
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  So that's one thing we can do.
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  And then the second thing we can do or is, yeah, or a moment now on her way up can do is
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  also to understand that not one, not everything is about gender.
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  So bad things that happen is maybe not with her being a woman, but also that some bad things
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  that happened, my tags in the with gender and not with her personally.
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  Because there are a lot of women, particularly the young women who think it's something wrong
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  with them at an individual level, and they don't realize it's the whole system.
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  It's a systemic discrimination, and it could be the systemic culture systemic way way of making
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  decisions is a systemic and that they need to be awake too in order not to blame themselves.
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  So it's, again, it's 2 things, but there also even is, ah, you know, I cannot join this board
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  because I'm a woman.
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  Are you qualified?
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  You know, you also have to.
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  It's not only about gender.
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  It's not only about our various diversities, and it is also about that.
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  So it's interesting.
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  So to have an objective lens really and and and to look at yourself and say, you know, what are
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  my strengths with my limitations?
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  What are what are the realities of this bureaucratic potential structure that I'm
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  wanting to enter?
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  It's really I I, you know, in my new book, R WAR, I talk a little bit about, you know,
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  assessing your own skills as a an authentic heart leader, really, and we all, you know,
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  human beings, we love to look at our our our strengths, but we, you know, the I I believe
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  the, gift is in looking at your limitations and recognizing things and figuring out, you know,
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  what steps do I need?
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  And then also who do I need to surround myself with in order to get these skills too.
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  And sometimes it may be a male colleague.
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  That's
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  I know.
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  It's also that.
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  You know?
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  And, there was also something else that came to mind just before, and that is that there's
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  many, many, many women now who extremely well educated.
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  So young women do all over the world, at least in countries where you get access to education
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  and so on.
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  They do well at school.
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  They get good grades.
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  We have higher and higher education.
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  So and then we start working many women start working, and it's still about sort of doing the
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  excellent job to get the good grade to and and we ought to be careful.
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  So it's not too much about pleasing in the hope of being one day recognized.
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  We're not good girl.
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  So this is I mean, I'm telling that.
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  I believe there's a lot of people I know.
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  And then years later, you were like, exhausted and burned out.
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  And and so I don't know how the hard to get the younger women to to to pick that up, but it's
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  an important part of Yeah.
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  This perfection and perfectionism.
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  This being there's something.
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  I think that, you know, the gen zeds and the gen x are are more coming from the space of
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  value alignment.
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  Say, I could say that, you know, a lot of female leaders at my time, we were on that
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  treadmill.
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  Absolutely.
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  Right?
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  And but now I when I meet younger female leaders, they'll say, you know, when I go for a
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  situation or a a an interview, I'm looking for what where's that value alignment with me?
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  This is, again, this is so cool now.
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  And this is You know, earlier in here, I'm when I started my career, I was like, okay.
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  Well, I know I wanna get.
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  So which hoops do I have to jump through to get that?
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  And I'm just gonna get it done.
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  And now when I'm talking to younger female leaders, they're like, Well, I wanna see what
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  they're doing with the environments.
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  Or at fact, I'd like to see, you know, how my leadership story which I'm, you know, I'm
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  talking to maybe somebody in their twenties, and they're talking about their leadership
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  story, which is really refreshing to hear because I'm thinking I'm looking at a lot of
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  female leaders that are older that are now figuring out what their leader was.
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  Even though they've been embodying it all along, So I think it's in generationally, there
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  is I have experienced that I'm sure you have too.
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  They're coming from a a place of strength that says I bring these things.
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  I'm a female.
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  However, I recognize there's limitations, but it's not about me.
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  The ones that have done a bit of you know, coaching an awareness and, you know, an
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  awareness is such the gift that I think, you know, now it's kind of a bit of a given.
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  Right?
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  So you you just have the mentor.
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  You, you know, you do your coaching.
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  You have that awareness and you look at yourself holistically.
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  Versus before it was kinda like, how am I gonna fit into this role?
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  And, you know, what am I gonna do to morph myself?
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  Yeah.
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  You know?
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  This was such a great interview that we decided to turn it into a 2 part series.
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  Be sure to tune in next week for part 2.
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