Latest / The DEX Show: A Show for IT Change Makers / The past, present, and future of the XLA w/ Neil Keating

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The past, present, and future of the XLA w/ Neil Keating · The DEX Show: A Show for IT Change Makers

0:01
Welcome it, change makers to the deck Show with Tim Flower and Tom McGraw.
0:07
Let's get into it. Hello, everybody, welcome to your deck show.
0:12
I'm Tom McGraw, joined us ever by Tim Flower. Tim, so
0:15
you were just saying earlier of it, your your house is a little delayed
0:19
if listeners don't overseeing the building. The construction of a very beautiful new home.
0:26
What is the main what is the main cause of it delayed him?
0:28
Yeah, So it's a it's a really nice timber frame. It's a barn
0:32
style post and beam. So it's a little more complicated. It's a bit
0:36
of a like our work environment, it's a bit of a hybrid some traditional
0:39
plus some ancient kind of building techniques. And because of that, you know,
0:44
there's just some inherent delays with construction and supply chain, sighting gets delayed,
0:50
electrical, all the all the things you rely on. The very first
0:54
thing I did has been a year build process. The very first thing I
0:56
did was order appliances, and I just heard that they are in so at
1:00
least that's some good news. Oh yeah, getting there, getting there well,
1:03
Speaking of renovations, listen, one of our favorite collaborators, not only
1:07
on the Deck show, but next think in general is definitely a LA Colab.
1:14
And of course we've had previous XLA Colab CEO, Alan Announcey's been on
1:19
this show a couple of times, a couple of great episodes of Alan.
1:22
Always enjoy speaking to him. But today we're welcoming Alan's successor, Neil Keating
1:29
to the show. High Neil, how's it going? Oh? Good?
1:30
Thank you? Yeah, nice to be here, Nice to see you,
1:33
bas aweful to have you. And I'm listening. We're going to hear a
1:36
bit about XLA Colab and its new name and it's it's general evolution in just
1:42
a minute. But first of all, I reckon if you could begin by
1:45
introducing yourself, please, Neil, so our listeners hear a bit about you.
1:49
Yeah, sure, Well, Hi everybody. My names Neil Keating.
1:53
I've been running a company called bright Horse for many years. Bright Horse are
2:00
entrenched in the experienced management world. So we've been doing experienced management x LAS
2:06
since probably about two thousand and seventeen, and we do it. We do
2:10
experience management in sort of three ways. We do education, we do consultancy,
2:15
and we do technology. We work with partners like yourselves, that next
2:19
thing as well. So that's what we've been doing for you for quite a
2:23
few years now. And I'm sure we'll come onto him in a minute.
2:24
But yes, we've now had an opportunity to expand, and we've taken over
2:30
x LA Colab as well. I see, so I didn't realize. So
2:34
xcel Collab has now come under the bright Horse. Is that approximately right now?
2:39
You few of you combined into war, so nearly. So what we
2:45
what we've actually done is we've set up a new company called Experienced Collab,
2:51
and so we still have bright Horse. Bright Horse remains independent from this,
2:54
but we have a new company called Experienced Collab, and that's acquired Xcela Colab.
3:00
And the rationale for that really is that partly, I've been working with
3:04
XLA Colab for years. I've known Alan for years, I've known Bill for
3:07
years, and I've known Lisa for years. There were the three founders of
3:10
Excela Colab, and I've collaborated with them on the education I've worked with them
3:15
on consulting projects. So we've been working together for a long time. And
3:21
I guess we just liked we liked what they were doing, we liked the
3:23
work that where the education and the consulting and all those products were coming from.
3:29
So we acquired it, but we bought it under a new entity because
3:32
we licensed the education across globally. So the idea being that Experienced Collab is
3:39
a experience education and consulting company that licenses education consulting products throughout the world.
3:47
And so now we have some global partners coming on board. We've just taken
3:52
over some of the work that Alan, Bill and Lisa have been doing,
3:54
and we're just expanding the opportunities to support our global network so that more and
4:00
more XLAS, more and more XLA Education can get to more and more companies
4:03
throughout the world. Really, um, Alan, Alan Bill and Lisa,
4:08
by the way, aren't completely leaving. They remain board advisors to the new
4:11
co, so they are still around us. Still speak to them every week,
4:15
so I'm sure you can get Alan back on the shirt at some point
4:17
as well. So yeah, we will excellent, excellent, that sounds very
4:23
good. I mean, obviously, um um XLA Collab has been a principal
4:28
innovator and thought leader in the experience base kind of really outside of its kind
4:32
of contributions to it, to its customer base. Um, not least I
4:38
believe, correct me if I'm wrong, Neil for coining the term XLA in
4:42
the first place. Um, So, I'll be interested to get your view.
4:46
And obviously you've got you know, long experience in the industry in general
4:50
of where the industry is currently at in general and how XLA has become this
4:57
quite dominant concept more broadly speaking than it was maybe just three four years ago.
5:02
Yeah. Sure, I mean it's certainly you know, since Alan and
5:08
I and Bill and Lisa we started out with xlays. I think actually the
5:11
word x LA was coined before this. To be fair toward us, I
5:15
don't think any of us really coined the term, but it's been it's been
5:18
Alan and co and our support in the UK that's been really pushing XLAS for
5:26
the last four or five years, if not longer, and I guess it's
5:29
quite impressive. I think where that's got to the truth is the market is
5:33
still quite immature. So this is not a mature, modern, mature market
5:40
that everyone is knowing exactly what to do and how to do it. And
5:43
that's why the education becomes so vital here because it's about teaching people the different
5:47
variants how you get started and what you do. But it is impressive how
5:51
the market has grown since we've been doing it. It's grown tremendously over the
5:56
last five years, and now it is still on the agenda single CIO.
6:00
You read all the Gardner reports, you read the Forester reports, and it's
6:03
quite clear that every CIO recognize is that delivering good experience management is key to
6:11
actually it performing well. So there's no doubt that, even though it's still
6:15
an immature market, that it has now entered what we call the experience economy.
6:20
Again, that's not phrase we came up with particularly, that was two
6:24
people in America's a book called Welcome to the Experience Economy, I think published
6:28
in nineteen ninety nine, So that tells you how long ago that was.
6:30
But what that means is that the it has left sort of moved from services
6:34
just delivering services and all the slays and KPIs associated with that, into well,
6:41
we also need to be delivering something else, and that's something else.
6:44
Is normally about outcomes. Services has been about outputs, and what people are
6:47
demanding now in the experience economy is outcomes. They want to be productive,
6:51
they want to be enabled. They want to be able to do their job
6:54
better, and that's really what it need to do. And I think more
6:58
and more IT department are seeing that actually this is about outcomes, and actually
7:02
the success of it is really should be measured on the success of those people
7:09
consuming it. And that's really where Excellator taking that massive growth over the last
7:13
few years. And like a lot of things that we do in IT,
7:16
it's maybe I feel like it's an overused phrase, but it's still applicable.
7:21
We've got to look at all three pieces of the equation that people process and
7:25
technology, and I think as we talk about when we say the terms the
7:29
market, it feels like it's a combination of those three. But I'm curious
7:33
in the one space kind of since next Think obviously is a vendor. We're
7:39
on the technology side. As we see the vendor space getting bigger and more
7:44
broad and more organizations involving themselves in delivering better experience, is there a risk
7:51
here? In other words, is there a danger of forgetting some of the
7:56
core founding principles of decks in favor of definition scope creep and do we need
8:03
to guard against that? If we do, how do we do that U.
8:05
Yeah, I think that's a fair point, and I think the answer
8:09
is yes. In my view, there is a risk that as more and
8:11
more companies and organizations jump into the industry that we can lose some of the
8:16
initial thinking about how we're matching sentiment with operational criteria and other experience impacts.
8:24
So I think that's definitely a risk in what we're doing. I guess I
8:28
think, you know, from from my point of view, you know,
8:30
with experienced colab I think generally speaking, more and more companies entering the market
8:35
is probably good news. Actually, I think it's probably good news for people
8:37
like yourself as well, because that that certainly tells you the market is growing.
8:43
That certainly tells you that the market is is maturing because more and more
8:46
people kind of want to do that. But when they come inside the market,
8:50
we call it experience washing. I don't know if you've heard that phrase
8:54
before, but where where where organizations are just sort of washing themselves with experience
9:00
a cover and they're just saying, well, yeah, we do experience too,
9:01
and we're in the experience market as well. And if the reality is
9:05
they're not, and the reality is they're just trying to market themselves into that
9:09
position. That does confuse people, and I think I see particularly actually in
9:16
the technology space, particularly in deck. There's lots more companies saying that they
9:20
do decks, but when you get under the covers of that, they don't
9:24
really they're just measuring technology. They're just doing uptime and downtime. That's not
9:28
digital experience. I'd say the same with some of the survey vendors. More
9:33
and more companies now saying we do employee experience surveys as opposed to you know,
9:37
I know, customer experience surveys. It's the same thing in a different
9:41
in a different clothing, really, so that can confuse the market, and
9:46
I think that's that's been happening over the last couple of years. One of
9:50
the things we're trying to do to guard against that. To answer your other
9:52
part of the question is that we're working with our partners and we're coming up
9:56
with XCELA versions. So we started with x LA one point zero, we
10:01
now moved to x LA two point zero, and we have x LA three
10:05
point zero. And that purpose of doing that really is to try and help
10:09
organizations say, well, look, if you just want to gather sentiment and
10:13
you're not going to match it with other indicators. That's absolutely fine, you're
10:15
still doing a good thing. That's x LA one point zero. If you
10:18
want to start like proper DEX does and start saying, well, we're gonna
10:22
match sentiment with technical requirements and we might want to match that with support slays
10:26
and KPIs as well to get that context of why people feel the way they
10:31
do, well, that's x LA two point zero. It's a multichannel,
10:33
the dual channel approach to DEX and experience. And then you can have x
10:37
LAY three point zero, which is really about taking that concept and applying it
10:43
to different parts of organizations maybe even different persona groups and things like that.
10:48
And I think we can get that out into the market and it's a maturity
10:50
step. Then I think people will actually recognize that, well, what technologies
10:56
are right for what part of that journey really and where other technical companies or
11:01
other companies that are coming into the market don't really meet any of those criteria.
11:05
So I think it's a I think genuinely overcoming that. It's about market
11:09
education and helping people understand what x lays are. Helping people really understand what
11:13
DEX is, and then people can start recognizing what tools are available to them
11:18
to help them with their part of the journey. I guess that's what we're
11:20
trying to do. That's I think that's anyway you can guard against that principles
11:22
because it is about people process technology. If we can get the people understanding
11:28
exactly what lays are and what the different types are, then they can work
11:31
out, well, what's right for my organization. That's the way to do
11:35
it. I think, Yeah, I really like that structure because it aligns
11:39
with say, for instance, itel versions rights. It gives better definition to
11:46
the different stages and where you are. It allows for better education, better
11:50
definition. You can even certify against each stage, and then at based on
11:56
where you are and where you want to go, you can now assess what
12:00
capabilities you need to implement to be able to get there. I think that's
12:01
really great, and I think that that whole assessment piece becomes quite important as
12:05
well. So the education that we're we've taken over the education from XCELA Colab.
12:11
We're just updating some of that. We're just getting to a version two
12:13
of that education to make it a more simple approach to certification and You're absolutely
12:20
right. You can now certify yourself against different versions, and that's really key.
12:22
You can also with that maturity assess where are you now, where do
12:28
you want to get to? And then well, how are we going to
12:31
get you there? What tools you need, what skills do you need,
12:33
What education do you need? What processes might you need to get you there?
12:35
So this is about market maturity, and I think all of those things
12:39
will help. I think, so let's talk about a little bit about technology
12:43
advancements. There's been quite a few over the last few years that feel like
12:48
they've just come out of nowhere, you know, obviously developed over a number
12:52
of years and years. What do you see in terms of tech advancement,
12:56
what stands out to you as having the biggest potential impact on the advancement of
13:01
xcelas maybe this year and next year. For example. There's always a lot
13:05
of chatter around chat GPT whenever we talk about new tech. What do you
13:11
see as really helping the XLA movement move forward with new tech? Well,
13:16
I think there's a few. Funny you mentioned chat GPT because yesterday I was
13:20
working with a customer and they are implementing XLAS and one of the things that
13:26
we were doing for them was was helping them with experienced surveys. Now,
13:28
experienced surveys are far different from any sort of other survey that you people have
13:33
been used to doing, you know, such as customer satisfaction surveys and things
13:37
like that. They are they're a different beast altogether. And I took them
13:39
through all the best practices to get an experienced survey, and it can get
13:43
quite technical, and it's there's a lot of best practices out there how you
13:46
can make sure you're getting the right questions answered and the right responses, and
13:52
right at the last minute, the one of the people in the workshop said,
13:54
you know what I'd be really interested in is running We've crafted them as
13:58
some experience ambitious statements, running that through chat GBT and asking that to see
14:03
if we can develop some questions. I thought, well, that could be
14:05
a really good advancement. So I'm totally with you on that one. I
14:09
think the others though, are probably I mean, we talk a lot about
14:13
AI, and I think you know that data mining and using sort of tools
14:18
to actually do data mining are going to help. Currently, most of the
14:22
sentiment we gather comes from a survey whether it's a you know, a pop
14:24
up, whether it's an email survey where there's an answer in the email comes
14:28
from some form of survey. I think as technology advances, will get better
14:31
ways of gathering sentiment. And the ones that I think are closer to it,
14:35
which kind of excite me a bit more at the moment, are things
14:39
like active listening on service desk calls, where they're kind of using technology to
14:43
listen into services desk calls and understand sentiment that's coming through that, or not
14:48
even just service desk, other types of contact center calls, for example,
14:52
amount of time the agent says sorry could be an interesting indicator that experience has
14:58
been bad. You know, you using using that sort of technology to analyze
15:03
chat on teams or yama or whatever the technology is using. You've got to
15:07
do all those things openly, of course, but I think that's quite an
15:09
exciting industry trend that could help us not just solely rely on surveys to get
15:16
sentiment. I think the bigger area that I think is coming is dashboard and
15:22
data mining for for putting everything onto a up to date, modern style dashboard.
15:28
And that's think that's if you've got multi channeled XILA. So you're measuring
15:33
sentiment, and you're measuring the impact of slays and KPIs on how that impacts
15:39
experience, and you're using something like next thing decks to measure the impact of
15:45
devices and technology on people's experience. Bringing all that together into an up to
15:50
date, you know, highly responsive layer dashboard, I think could be really
15:56
exciting because then you couldn't start not just seeing how people feel now, but
16:00
you could actually start predicting experience as well, because we can start using some
16:04
of those indicators because we would have seen it all before. I say,
16:07
if that happens alongside that, we believe something's gonna these group of people are
16:12
gonna have a poor experience. And I think suddenly that becomes a very exciting
16:15
moment in x LA development, because we're moving from reactive experience management to really
16:22
predicting how people feel and what we need to do about that. So I
16:25
think that's probably you know, coming in the next couple of years as well.
16:27
So I think that's quite exciting development too. Yeah, bubbling up their
16:32
right data at the right time to turn it into actionable information. The predictive
16:37
is the huge part of it, you know, it's great. Automation is
16:41
great, and fixing people quickly is great. What's even better is that we
16:45
don't break them to begin with, and we give them the experience that they're
16:48
supposed to have without technology getting in the way. Yeah. And I think
16:52
the more the more we have that in the dashboard and in the data like
16:57
that we're seeing because we can start draw parallels between different situations, so we
17:02
know that you know, if if if the if the memory usage on certain
17:07
devices is running very high, that's going to cause a problem elsewhere, which
17:10
means that you know, we're gonna have a we're gonna have a poor experience
17:12
next week. You can start doing really good predictive analysis and we could fix
17:17
that at the route and say, right, we'll fix that now and let's
17:19
avoid that experience issue. I think that is a really exciting time for xolas
17:23
and the whole experience movement. I think, and then start using AI to
17:29
compare experience of different cohorts. Right, people on laptops on a Starbucks IP
17:33
range have poor quality. People that are in their home on their Wi Fi
17:37
a better quality. So start to analyze who's what the actual impacts are to
17:42
experience I'm curious on that note. Um, you know, another maybe overused
17:48
term, the new normal, remote distributed hybrid workplace. We're living in this
17:53
now for three years at MASS. What challenges have you seen around kind of
18:00
the last couple of years in terms of the art of the XLA. You
18:06
mentioned XLAS go back, you know, into the late nineties, But how
18:10
is the last couple of years challenged or disrupted that art of measuring XLING.
18:15
It's an interesting point, actually, I think there's been some positives out of
18:19
that with the experience management, but there has been some challenges to it as
18:23
well. I mean, I think the biggest positive that's come out of this
18:26
whole movement from people from a workplace and work being a place you place you
18:32
go to, a thing you do, and people working from home, I
18:34
think is that the organizations probably found it easier to measure experience when everyone was
18:40
in one place or two places, because they could probably see people who meet
18:42
people and understand that a lot lot easier. When people moved to work from
18:48
home, actually became very challenging to suddenly realize that, oh, hang on
18:52
a minute, how do they feel and are they getting the same experience from
18:56
home? That they used to get from work, and I think lots of
19:00
IT teams did amazingly great jobs to help organizations do that. But that actually
19:04
advanced some of the EXCELA development because I think CIOs and organizations realize we should
19:11
be measuring this. Why weren't we measuring here? We now need to measure
19:14
that in a different way. So I think we've seen over the last few
19:17
years lots of companies say we now recognize we need to measure experience because we
19:22
recognize it's it's out of our control. There are lots of elements out of
19:26
our control, and I think that's bought challenges in terms of organizations have had
19:30
to change their experience ambitions. So explain that for a second. One of
19:34
the one of the things we say when we think about experience management is if
19:37
you're going to measure experience, of course you can just measure it generally,
19:41
how do people feel? And you know, what could we do to improview
19:45
experience within it? But what's sometimes better is to measure it specifically. So
19:48
let's come up with some ambitions. What's experience do you want to stage for
19:52
people? What experience do you think people deserve? When organization what experience do
19:56
you want to give them, what can you afford to give them? And
19:59
we craft these ambitions that enable IT teams to understand this is the experience that
20:04
people get when they come and use our services. But they've had to really
20:07
change over the last few years, and they've got more complex because previously it
20:11
might have been about productivity, and I think there's a massive drive productivity at
20:15
the moment. But previously it was just about productivity, but now it's about
20:19
you mentioned Starbucks, it's about being productive in any location and pretty much any
20:26
time. When people work from home, their days kind of elongated bit.
20:32
So you might be working more into the evenings, but you might have to
20:33
take your dog for a walk at lunch time or put your children up from
20:36
the nursery, so so the dais elongate. So we have to be making
20:38
sure people who are productive on pretty much any device, any location, at
20:42
any time, and that's become very challenging to measure, and you need something
20:45
like XLAS to help you understand or how do people feel about whether they're when
20:51
they're working from home, How do people feel about it when they're working in
20:53
the office. Is there a difference between the two how do they feel when
20:57
they're in transit or they're at Starbuck. You know, what can we do
21:00
to improve that experience across the piece. I think the other thing that's been
21:04
interesting is that the ways that we've had to try and gather data, So
21:11
that's also been interesting. You know, next thing's done some great developments about
21:15
gathering data from home wifis, for example, So that's a that's a great
21:18
development to make sure we can still improve experience. But if we're gathering sentiment
21:23
data, that's also changed because people have many more distractions now than they ever
21:29
did before when they're working from home. You know, got all sorts of
21:32
things going on in the home life. They're also now trying to compete time
21:34
with so crafting some form of survey becomes a challenge. And also the time
21:40
of that survey. You know, I don't know if you ever knew this,
21:41
but the best time to ever ask someone how they feel was always Tuesday
21:45
morning at eleven o'clock. And the rationale from that was that Monday you'd be
21:52
the first day back in the office, and so you know, you're catching
21:55
up with everybody and you're getting challenged and you're trying to plan your week.
21:59
Tuesday, you'd be back in the office and your day, your week sorted,
22:03
You've got your coffee, you've sorted out your your emergency emails. It's
22:07
about half ust ten eleven o'clock, and then suddenly you get a survey through
22:11
or something that you're more likely to answer at that time than you ever were
22:12
before. By the way, that that's the same. If you ever get
22:15
lots of cold calling emails, they always come Tuesday at eleven o'clock. You
22:19
might notice that if you didn't know that from before. But I reckon that's
22:23
changed because I don't think Monday is the first day people are back in the
22:26
office anymore. People aren't even going back into the office or Tuesday's off in
22:30
the first day, and Monday they work from home. So people are realizing
22:33
that the whole way we get sentiment has to change as well as the other
22:37
measures that we take. So we're measuring sentiment, we're measuring technical data.
22:41
Then we need to make sure we're doing that in the right way, because
22:44
that's completely changed now people who work from home than ever did before. I
22:47
think, and then just a final disclaimer and I'll throw it back the time.
22:53
Starbucks is a great customer of ours. I'm sure they have wonderful WiFi.
22:57
Don't disparage co quality at the at and Starbucks put lots of differences between
23:03
being in a coffee shop versus being in the office. I think, just
23:07
just on that point that actually Starbucks are definitely in the in the in the
23:12
the experience industry. They've moved into the experience trans long time ago. I
23:17
think they deliver great. People go into Starbucks not just for the coffee anymore.
23:19
They go in there because they're using their WiFi, you're listening to their
23:22
music, you're charging them from your phones in their electricity. You see people
23:26
have meetings in there, you see people students do their work from there.
23:29
Because it's an experience. They're definitely in the experience economy. So yeah,
23:33
I agree with with with what you're saying. Actually, that's a pretty good
23:40
Starbucks WiFi. At my time, it's always bad. Generally, I think
23:44
they're pretty good, to be honest. But anyway, that's a side thing.
23:48
Anybody recording this podcast with us will know sometimes I do better to be
23:52
at Starbucks and I do at my home office. But then Neil, we
23:56
touched upon a few a few, a few kind of hot topics there.
24:00
But I wonder if there's any any big experience trends we've yet to touch upon
24:06
what we've left out for twenty twenty three of that you'd like to just bring
24:08
up and highlight. I think there's probably a couple. I think this is
24:15
going to be an interesting year, I think. But I think this is
24:18
the year that lays really do start to drive business value if you think about
24:23
them. The biggest trend, you know, and not a technical trend or
24:27
I think, but the biggest industry drive at the moment is companies are you
24:33
know, shortening their growth. The growth is being downturned, Inflation is very
24:37
high. Some economies are still talking about going into a session. So that's
24:41
a challenge for any organization. So therefore, this is becoming not just a
24:45
good thing to do because we should be measuring experience, but X lays are
24:49
becoming a must do thing because we need to measure productivity. We need to
24:52
make sure that our team are productive because without that then you know, we
24:59
don't know where or how well we are doing. So some productivity is measured
25:03
easy through outputs. You know, if you make shoes, you can easily
25:06
tell how many more shoes you make at the end of the day, but
25:08
sometimes it's not as easy as that. You know, how do you how
25:11
do you know whether the finance team have been productive? How do you know
25:14
whether the police force are more productive than they ever were? So, you
25:18
know, I think in this downturn, then I think what happens with experienced
25:22
measures is people say, well, we really need to get to the root
25:25
course of what what we're measuring and why we should do that. And I
25:27
think this is where lays come in and say, we can absolutely measure productivity
25:33
of those employees using your technology, how well it enabling your company to do
25:41
the jobs that they actually do. And I think the number one driver we
25:44
always get is productivity. And I think that's coming into coming into many more
25:49
organizations now because they need to make sure they're productive. So I think that's
25:52
a big drive at the moment. I think that's a big trend that we're
25:56
seeing with x LAS. I say, number one way, why reason why
26:00
people do it? Productivity? The other trend I see, though, outside
26:04
of that kind of related I suppose is there are more and more and more
26:10
experienced roles being created in organizations if you go back a couple of years,
26:14
it was very rare you saw a dex manager or a head of xmoor or
26:19
a chief experience officer. More and more of these big companies are now creating
26:23
experience departments or creating experienced roles that are trying to drive not just sex customer
26:30
experience type activity, but they're creating these roles to measure employee experience activity,
26:37
to make sure their employees are getting a good experience whilst they're in that organization.
26:41
Not always solely it, but it plays a large part to that.
26:45
So we're seeing more and more of those coming into play. And I think
26:49
the reason for that actually perhaps the pendulin with swimming swinging back a bit.
26:55
But as you well know, the last few years, we've seen people leave
27:00
organizations. You know, there's been a massive exodus for people in organizations stats
27:03
coming from ten percent nutrition rates to thirty percent nutrition rates, huge numbers of
27:08
people kind of thinking they're going to move or moving. Well, maybe that
27:11
pendulum swim back because of the perhaps more difficult times, but there is still
27:15
a massive demand for top talent. There was still a lot of competition for
27:21
well talented individuals, and I think organizations are recognizing that too, and so
27:26
they're having to put employee experience measures in not just because of productivity, but
27:32
also to retain the good people that they've got working for them, because if
27:34
they don't, those people will for surely leave, and if they don't even
27:38
leave, perhaps worse than that they state at the organization, but they do
27:41
what's now called quietly quitting, where they're just doing the minimally accepted work they
27:48
can do to get paid at the end of the month, knowing that they're
27:49
going to move on at some point. So experienced measures from that point have
27:53
become really key as well. So we're seeing more and more roles being developed
27:56
and more and more experienced management officers being develop and I think that's a great
28:00
thing for the market as as it continues to expand, and we gotta love
28:07
to see it, right, gentlemen, it's no bad thing, no bad
28:10
things, absolutely. I Neil has been great to have you on and as
28:15
good to know we can have Alan back again later this year. To love
28:19
to hear that and excited to hear everything that's happening there. Um listen,
28:22
Just finally for the audience, if people want to reach out to you,
28:26
Neil, get in touch with you. Where should they go? Who should
28:29
we talk to you? Um, you can reach out to me directly.
28:32
I'm on LinkedIn, so yeah, Neil Keating. You'll see me on LinkedIn
28:37
under either bright Horse or Experienced Collab. If you want to drop me an
28:40
email then yeah, please feel free to do that as well. So that
28:42
will be Neil dot Keating at experienced collab dot com. Um, yeah,
28:48
I'd love to anyone who's out there interested in anything to do with experience management,
28:52
the frameworks, the education or just what to do generally, just drop
28:55
me an email to that email address and all yeah, happily answer. So
28:59
that'd be great, superb. We'll have a link in the show notes and
29:02
we'll link to some of our favorite x LA pieces from the Deck Show Deck
29:07
Cub Mothership as well. Neil, thanks so much for coming on for your
29:10
first appearance. Hope to have you back again soon and best to love miss
29:12
you. Thank you very much been a pleasure to make sure that you never
29:15
miss an episode. Subscribe to the show in Apple Podcasts, Spotify for your
29:19
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podcast deserves. If you'd like to learn more about how next Think can help
29:30
me improve your digital employee experience, head over to nextthink dot com. Thank
29:36
you so much for listening. Until next time,