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Mind Matters : Knowing When to Call an Educational Psychologist · Let Them Fly - Heather Harries Ed Hub

• 0:08
  SPEAKER_01: Good morning and welcome to Let Them Fly.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_01: Today we're here with Ezra in Connect Psychology.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_01: Now I always get very confused when I go to psychologists.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_01: I've never I'm never sure exactly what the difference is between psychologists and psychotherapy and all the other things that go there.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_01: So I am going to hand over to you to introduce yourself and explain before I get make a mess of it exactly who you are, what you do, and what is a psych a psychologist.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_00: Oh okay, I'll explain for you, Heather.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_00: Good morning, and thank you for coming to visit us today.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm an educational psychologist.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_00: There's lots of different types of psychologists.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_00: So you can have clinical psychologists, which I think everyone's very familiar with that job title.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_00: We can have health psychologists, educational psychologists, sports psychologists, organizational, forensic.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_00: So there's lots of different branches of psychology.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_00: And each one has a different focus and a different group of people that they tend to work with.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_00: However, in general, very broadly speaking, all psychologists are interested in behavior, in human nature, and individual differences.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_00: As an educational psychologist, I'm predominantly work with schools.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_00: I work with children and families.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_00: A big part of my role is helping schools to support children who might have some additional needs.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_00: But we also work, as you mentioned, psychotherapy.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_00: We also work therapeutically in the clinic setting, offering therapy for children and families who may be facing things like anxiety or low mood, it could be loss.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_00: There's a whole, you know, a whole host of difficulties that individuals might be navigating, and our job is to help them through that.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_01: It's just so lovely to know there's always a solution out there.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_01: Now, why would I bring my child?
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_01: What are the kind of trigger signs that would make me think my child would benefit from coming to see a psychologist?
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_00: So often parents come for an initial consultation first because they feel that things at home, either there's been um something happened, as I mentioned, maybe a bereavement or loss, or maybe their child's gone through something difficult such as bullying.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_00: So there may be a you know a life event that triggers families to come and see us.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes it's just changes in their child's behaviour, or it could be, for example, new parents who are seeing maybe that their child's development might be different from what they're seeing with their peers.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_00: So there's lots of reasons, but generally it's families who come and they just want to discuss what they're experiencing at home, things that they might be finding challenging, and seeing, well, is there a role for a psychologist here, or um other things that we could be doing differently at home?
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_01: And generally, I mean I always say to parents, if you think there's a reason, or as a mum, you have a sort of second sense really.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_01: Would you say that's right that as a mum, if you think there's something, it's certainly worth it.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_01: Even if everyone tells you it's not, mums know, don't they?
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_00: You know your child better than anyone.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_00: So if you feel like there's something that they need help with that you feel there's something that you're missing, that you just don't quite understand how to support them, then absolutely come and have that initial consultation.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um, if it you know it can just put your mind at rest or it can point you in the right direction, and then at least you know you're not just trying different things and not actually sure what's going to help and and what's just you know out there that you've been recommended, but you're not sure if it's evidence-based or if it's the right recommendation for you.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, come along and and have that conversation.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_00: And we understand it can be quite daunting to come and see a psychologist for the first time, um, and and that's completely understandable.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I hope that now there's been much more awareness about mental health, about inclusion, that schools and families when they come here they feel comfortable and they can talk to us about you know what they're going through.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_01: And I think you're right.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_01: That you know, whenever you talk about mental health, there is still a st a stigma, but actually there's no need because if you break your arm, you go and see a doctor.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_01: If you if your brain or your head's not right, you go and see a doctor.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_01: I mean it is that simple, isn't it?
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_00: It is, and and that's really you know what I think all mental health professionals, psychologists, psychiatrists, we're all working towards that, just normalizing that we all have mental health, we all have ups and downs, um, and and some of us may have you know longer periods of where we need support than others.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_00: Some people need psychotherapy.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_00: In fact, you know, we could say that most people would benefit from um some sort of talking therapy in in at some point in their lives, and it's certainly not something that we should be um ashamed of or worried about talking about, but there is that, as you say, there is still that stigma there.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I think Sus, I think you're right, it it it's about talking, and we all have bad days, and it's how long they go on for.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_01: But I think Dubai particularly, there's a lot of stress here.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_01: There's very, very few true true friends you want to unload to, and I think there probably is a bigger build-up and a bigger need here than elsewhere.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, Dubai is quite a unique setting, if we could put it like that.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_00: So, like you mentioned, there's lots of transition, there's lots of change.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it is a high-pressured city, you know, there's a um a wonderful lifestyle here, but um at the expense of you know, sometimes your your working life can be very intense as well.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_00: So there's a lot of pressures on families.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_00: There's a lot of families where um one parent is traveling um quite a lot, so that adds another pressure.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously, you've not got the support of your home network, and and some of the services out there can be very expensive for families.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, it's a it's a unique um combination of factors that can influence people's well-being here.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um, there is a lot of research coming out of the Middle East in terms of things like corporate well-being and understanding what employees need to have better well-being in the workplace.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um, these conversations are all happening and and and it's all very new.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_00: So there's there's certainly progress always being made.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_00: And within the education um systems, you know, we're always looking now at well-being in schools, teacher well-being.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_00: The KHDA have um developed a well-being inspection, a strand of their inspection, is all about well-being.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_00: So there's certainly um really positive steps being taken to take all these you know unique factors into consideration.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I I mean I think it's great, and I it's certainly we've been here 20 years and the change is is massive.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and you mentioned earlier you work with schools.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_01: So you work with schools, inclusion departments?
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we work with um inclusion teams, we work with Senco's, uh, inclusion teachers, and with well-being teams as well.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_00: So often the processes that uh a child will come to us with uh their parents, usually that will be then an assessment happens, an assessment following the consultation.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um and the assessment is to identify where are this child's really um learning needs, where are their strengths.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_00: So we uh want to build a really in-depth understanding of this child's learning profile, and then we meet with the school as well, and we talk about what the assessment means, and then importantly, how does that translate into classroom supports, what needs to be done in the classroom to help a student access the curriculum.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_01: And can that um that arrival with you can that be either triggered by the school or by the parent or by a doctor?
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we have referrals come from schools, um schools will recommend that an educational psychologist works with a family.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_00: So usually what happens is that schools will have their own steps to identifying needs, and that might involve things like classroom observations or they might do a few weeks of uh targeted support for a child.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_00: They might do some intervention, then they'll review.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_00: If they still think there's more needs there that they've not quite understood, then they'll make a referral and they'll suggest to the family that it would be helpful to have an educational psychologist involved.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um and just talk me through what an educational psychologist consult would look like for a parent and a child.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_00: A bit like this, really.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_00: We were just sitting, um, you know what we we want to create a very, very welcoming, you know, um supportive space, and it's a non-judgmental conversation, really.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_00: We gather background information, so we go right back to the early development, we look at developmental milestones, we'll talk about significant life events, um, any changes that have happened, social development, um, emotional development.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_00: So we really look at you know that that whole um the child's whole history, really, and then we look at educational, you know, has there been a lot of changes in education, changes in um schools?
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_00: So we do things um like that, we talk about all those things, and then we look at right what's the presenting need right now, you know, what is it we're seeing in the class, what are schools saying, and then we we speak to school as well, so we have that full um picture of what's going on for that young person.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and that's the the consultation.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_00: At that, we then agree what the next steps would be.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um, that could be that I say, Well, why don't I go in and do a classroom observation in the school, or it could be that we do um an educational assessment, or it could be that we're hearing that maybe there's signs of um ADHD or traits of autism, so then we can do a neurodevelopmental assessment.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_00: So there's different directions that that process can take you.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_00: I mean what we're seeing a lot or we're hearing a lot is parents saying, but I don't want them to have a label.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, and that that's understandable that's a concern for for many families.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um and there's different schools of thought on that, to be honest.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_00: You know, there are some um I'm trained in the UK from Scotland.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um, when I did my training, that there was a a lot of debate about um the the benefits or not of having a diagnosis and having a label, and I think it's still happening that conversation, um, you know, whether or not that that's good for a child or a family, or whether or not it creates, as you say, more stigma um around needs.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um, my experience is that I would say most or all families who have a label or a diagnosis find it incredibly helpful.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um, the reason it's helpful is because it then is a clear you know signposting what needs to happen next.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_00: And and also for the young person, um, you know, they they're already recognizing if they're having difficulties with their learning, if they're having difficulties socially, they can see that, they feel that.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_00: Now the narrative they're telling themselves can be something quite negative.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_00: They can say it's something wrong with me, um, I'm just not smart.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_00: So there's lots of things that children will be telling themselves.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_00: Having an accurate diagnosis is it lifts that away and it says this is the reason why you're not finding it easy to learn to read, for example.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um that and then they learn about dyslexia or dysgraphia, or whatever that um assessment might show up.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_00: And that can be so empowering because then that young person can learn more about how they think, how they learn, and can actually speak up for themselves as they get older and can say, you know, I've got dyslexia, therefore I benefit from using a laptop where I need a little bit more time to finish my exams.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_00: So it can really um yes, it lift a lot of that um kind of negative self-talk that young people might be developing.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_01: I think there's I think there's been a huge difference as well.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_01: And I think the problem is parents that are my age, you know, um and most probably even young, probably a few years younger, is that you know, a label was an excuse for not achieving.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_01: Nowadays, a label is just a a direction that you can learn differently.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_01: And I've got two children, and my eldest one was very much, you know, the the school used to say, Oh, well, he's dyslexic, he can't achieve.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_01: The middle one, who's also dyslexic, that even seven years difference was, oh, well, we just need to change his learning to be like this.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_01: So I think sometimes if you once you get that diagnosis, one, it helps your child to know to understand the learning, two, it helps you as a parent to understand how to pivot that learning to make that work.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_01: But but three, it's it's kind of if you like, it's the way of just ensuring that everybody's on the same page.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_01: You can't there's that that lovely saying of, you know, if you judge a fish on its ability to climb trees, they'll never they'll never succeed.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_01: And I think you know, that's exactly it.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_01: You're you're giving a dyslexic child saying, well, you've got to learn the same way as everyone else, and that's not possible.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_01: They can learn and exceed and do far better than everyone else, but only if they learn in the right way.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um and I think that now we're seeing, you know, lots of, particularly in the public um eye, lots of famous people are are coming out and saying, Well, you know, I've got dyslexia, or I've been diagnosed with Tourette's or um anxiety, and it it's just it's wonderful to see because then young people have got, you know, they can connect to that, they can relate, and they say, All right, so you're successful, you're a high achiever, and you've went through school with dyslexia and then still managed to achieve all these great things.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_00: And it I think it just really demonstrates that those barriers it are created by systems, actually, um, rather than being a barrier for the individual.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_00: And once that's recognised, it it it can be navigated much easier.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_01: And um Richard Branson, who's my absolute hero, and he he's done so much work with dyslexia, and I I I love, I just follow him so avidly because he's such an ambassador for just proving that it, you know, it's not about failing with dyslexia, it's about absolutely flying.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_00: And and also that that assessment process is not a focus on deficits.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_00: It's absolutely not the reason why children and young people are coming here um for assessment.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_00: It's to understand the big picture, the whole profile of of yourself.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_00: How they learn, yes.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_00: So it's not uh an assessment where you come out and get told all the things that you can't do.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_00: That that's just you know pointless.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_00: That the whole point is that we have a better understanding of how, like you say, how we can put um supports in place and accommodations to help children fly, and that's what the aim is.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_01: One of the things I find particularly interesting is when I'm working with children who are dyslexic and and they've been diagnosed, and you'll be sat and dad will be in the you know in the room talking and he'll say, Do you know what?
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_01: I think I'm probably dyslexic.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_01: And it's true, it is actually runs through generations.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_01: There's some real evidence that it's it's inherited, isn't it?
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, and um you know that's something we also work with adults here at Connect.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_00: We do um adult assessment for ADHD and autism, and often at feedback meetings, um either one or both parents will say, That sounds exactly like me, and then may even book in themselves because they have felt that they have struggled their whole life or they've had to take, you know, just work incredibly hard or take extra steps to help with their organization, and and again, very high achieving, but at a cost, because then that comes with often increased anxiety, um, you know, higher levels of stress, um, because you're you're grappling with a different way of thinking, um, and and that's been something that you've managed your whole life.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and it can be again quite a relief for parents to say, maybe that's maybe that's what I've been struggling with all these years.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, because I went through that journey.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_01: So my son, when he was diagnosed, I suddenly went, Oh my goodness, that's why I found work.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I failed school, and I mean I know I'm running education now, but I failed in school because I couldn't learn and I was just considered not very clever.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_01: And actually, you know, I left I left school and have flown because it wasn't you I didn't have to work the way I was told to in school.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_01: In school, I mean I'm going back, you know, a very long time.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_01: I'm very old now, so school was very inflexible at that time.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_01: And and now understanding that learning journey, and I love being able to share that with parents because it's so important to change the way you learn, you know, and my children, you know, my my son particularly, he really struggled through school with dyslexia and dysgraphia, and you know, we pivoted because I had my own understanding, I could pivot that learning for him, and he's now in his last year of university, will hopefully fingers crossed, pass his degree, you know, really well.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_01: But he couldn't have done that without being diagnosed if it was.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so that's uh that's an amazing example of how having that understanding and how having a diagnosis can just, you know, it just makes it so clear what the next steps can be, um, and yeah, the outcomes completely different from had he not known that.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_01: And I say to so many children, I say you just have to get through school, and some schools are very much better than they were, but it's still it's a tough journey, and I think inclusion departments are full now, which doesn't help.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I think you know, some teachers just don't they don't get it, and and some students do really struggle, and I think you know it is good that they can be diagnosed.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_01: So tell me, in terms of psychology, what what are you seeing most common at the moment?
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_00: We um we work with a lot of young people who are experiencing anxiety.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um we have had ongoing over the past few years, there's just been an increased awareness, particularly um around girls with autism and how girls can present very differently to boys.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_00: So there's a huge amount of um say research and increased understanding about that.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and we're seeing now um a lot of referrals for autism assessment and also for ADHD assessment being triggered more uh increased press coverage.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_00: There's a lot of you know that that's um certainly helped people reflect and to learn more.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um COVID also um that was a time when you know we were in very unnatural circumstances and caused a lot of families to feel under stress.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um so things came out then that maybe wouldn't have um had we been just you know carrying on as normal.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_00: So, in terms of mental health awareness, um having had that you know lived through a pandemic, I think that's certainly the outcome, if we can think of positives, is that we're all very much more aware of our mental health and um our vulnerabilities and and when we feel most fragile and um under pressure.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_00: So, in some ways that's been good because it has prompted people to to seek out support.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_01: So So I mean a lot of a lot of anxiety I know for parents, and we we deal with this a lot with where children are just refusing to go to school.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_01: What are your tips for dealing with children with anxieties?
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_00: So there's different you know, what you described there, you know, there's that the whole um school emotionally based school avoidance.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_00: Importantly, I would say, is to understand first what you know what what's this young person presenting with.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_00: So is it a social anxiety, is it a general anxiety, so there's different types of anxiety.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um so it'd be important to have that um assessment and accurate formulation of what their needs are while we're planning what therapy would be most helpful.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_00: For school avoidance, um, yes, there's been a huge increase.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_00: I know, particularly the numbers coming out of the UK, um, and a lot of that has been attributed to the education system is not meeting um everyone's needs, and that there's a huge pressure to attend 100%, and children with additional needs are not able to meet that um attendance you know expectation, and families are being put under incredible amounts of pressure to get their children into school who are struggling with anxiety.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, when we look at some of the figures in more depth, uh we can see that a lot of the children who are accusers may also be presenting with traits and characteristics of autism.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and that's some you know some recent research that's um been published.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_00: So it's there's a lot of overlap there, um, and I think that to expect everyone to get into school and learn in exactly the same way is part of the reason why we're seeing this um rejection of this the system that's in place.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_01: And we talked we've mentioned a couple of times about autism, and I know a lot of parents really worry about this.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_01: What are the key things that would make you trigger you as a parent to say, mm, I want to check that out?
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_00: So there's different um presentations of autism, as you said earlier, um, it's known as a spectrum.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um so the spectrum um is not sort of linear in that you're sort of very autistic or or not autistic.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_00: Within that, there's a whole um range of different profiles, and there's a nice saying that you've met one autistic child, you've met one autistic child.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_00: So everyone's very different.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_00: We're all different in how we think and behave.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_00: So um we would very generally though, um, there is a a criteria um in the DSM, the diagnostic statistical manual, that we would be following when we're making diagnoses, um, and that would be differences with social communication, so social interactions and social understanding, and sensory needs are part of the autism profile, so sensory sensitivities, um, and then there's also a part which is um restricted or um sort of a preference for sameness or repetitiveness.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um so within that DSM 5 criteria, uh children have to have met certain um you know number of those symptoms or characteristics of autism, and that's the way that the process, the assessment process involves say detailed developmental history.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um there's a very in-depth parent interview that that happens.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um often that's looking at very early language skills, um, early language development, and again, sometimes parents may not have noticed any differences in that.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um so sort of the kind of typical presentation of autism um would be that maybe children learn to speak and then there's a regression or that they lose skills.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_00: That's not always the case.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_00: So it is that assessment process and being in a clinic where there's a an you know a level of expertise of autism is really important.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_00: So um there's a detailed interview and then there's usually a a classroom observation, a school observation.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_00: There would also be a structured play based assessment.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_00: And often then we'll do like a cognitive assessment if we can as well and some attainment tests.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_00: So it's a quite a lengthy process.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_01: And is there an optimum age for children for parents to take children to be diagnosed?
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_01: So you know I know some t I know with my with my son when he was three, I knew, I instantly knew he was dyslexic.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I used I used to say to the teacher on his first nursery, I say he's dyslexic.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_01: She'd go, No, no, you you can't possibly know.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_01: Now I did, and he was, but we didn't get him assessed till he was about eight.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_01: And I'd always been told sort of seven or eight is an optimal age.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_01: Is that correct?
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_00: There's different every every child's different.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_00: So some children are diagnosed very early, um, you know, that you can diagnose um from two, three for for autism.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um, dyslexia, I would say wait longer, you know, um ADHD also, you know, because um the the sort of behaviours that we're observing in ADHD um developmentally, depending on how old the child is, obviously, could seem more typical.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, a four-year-old jumping about all over the sofa or you know, finding it hard to sit still or only working on things for a short time would be much more developmentally appropriate than if that was a 12-year-old.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, we have to think about the the whole family life, the bigger picture, um, the the individual child.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_00: So I would say if you're concerned, certainly find out more.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um, have those consultations, have meetings with a psychologist, or go to your GP, your pediatrician, find out more, raise your concerns, um, and if it feels like the right time to proceed with a diagnosis, then yes, go go ahead and do that.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_01: And what about and other things coming away from education?
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_01: I know a lot of teenagers, you know, with eating disorders, and is that something that we they would also come to you for?
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_00: Not to me personally, because I I'm educational, so that's not my area of of expertise, but within the team we have two clinical psychologists, so that would be uh something that they would be able to support with and advise on.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um and there's also within Dubai, you know, there's some excellent um specialist eating disorder clinics as well.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_01: So just talk to me.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_01: So Kinect Psychology, that's yours, you set it up, and I know you're so passionate about it.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_01: You're two years old now and growing.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_01: I every time I've I meet you, you seem to have grown.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_01: Tell me a little bit more about Kinect Psychology and what you do and how people approach you because I love coming here, I have to say.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_00: We we work across the age range, um, so we work with you know from babies and from new mums supporting them all the way through to adults.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_00: So we have a team here of educational psychologists, clinical psychologists, and health psychologists.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_00: And health psychology is quite underrepresented in Dubai, so we're very proud to be able to offer a health psychology service, um, and that supports anyone who's suffering from the psychological impact of um physical ill health.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um, that could be, for example, if you're you're going through or had been through cancer treatment, um, it can be lifestyle change that you're trying to make for your fitness, for your well-being, um, and it can also be if you're if you've got a child who's had a you know a long-term condition, or if you yourself have got a long-term condition such as chronic pain supporting you through that.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_00: And again, in the UK, that's a service that would be much more readily available to people, and but it's it's a growing area here, which is amazing.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_00: And and tell me, so just the la last question.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I love one of you I love talking to you because you're so passionate, you're so calm, and it's like everything I'd expect a psychologist to be.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_01: So just tell me how did you get into psychology and tell me a bit about your life history.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so um I I grew up in Glasgow and um you know Glasgow's a city where there's um there's you know pockets of of deprivation, you would say.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_00: There's um certainly within uh you know the west of Scotland generally, there's uh mental health difficulties um due to various factors um to do with you know opportunity and um education.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_00: So it's always been something that I've been aware of, um, you know, sort of mental health inequality really, and um it was something that I've just been fascinated by in in terms of individual difference, you know, when you think about why do some people um thrive at at times when maybe someone else would really struggle with that, you know, resilience, just difference between how we respond to situations.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um so that's always been an interest, and then um yeah, I just went on to to study psychology after school and then as an undergraduate degree, um, and then I actually worked overseas for a while, um, so that gave me uh a really good experience in international schools, and that's what put me towards educational because I said at the start there's you know different branches of psychology that you can go into, but working in a school was what made me really want to then study educational psychology, so then went back and did a postgraduate degree in that um and then worked in the UK for a number of years before moving to Dubai.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_00: So and what made you set up your own business?
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, um I I think just because we you know we've been here 11 years and you see that there is a need there.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but there's you know that there's different ways that people approach mental health, and we wanted to set up a clinic where we say normalized that everyone has mental health, um, where we brought together like-minded professionals who can offer that safe space for families and individuals in Dubai, um, and and really just that we wanted to bring excellent support because we know that there's a need out there.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so that that was really the main drive behind Connect.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_01: That's lovely.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much for inviting us here to have a chat.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_01: So, Connect Psychology, it's based in JLT, super easy.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_01: We'll we'll drop the um details within the link.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_01: Super easy to get an appointment with you.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_01: You don't have months and months of waiting, and just a really, really lovely team.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_01: So ask for Ezra would be my advice.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks, Heather.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_00: It's been lovely to have you here.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, please, you know, we offer sort of um introductory calls.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_00: If if someone wants to just have a chat, of course, that's fine.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you can speak to one of our team, um, you can ask them about therapy.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_00: We really want to break down barriers to people accessing therapy.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_00: If you want to pop in and have a coffee, you're welcome to do that.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um we've had clients come in just to see the place first and and then they come back for therapy, and it just makes you feel you know that you've been there before, it's some somewhere more familiar.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um and we also offer online sessions if you would prefer to do that as well.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_01: So I've seen so many psychologist companies recently.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_01: How does a family choose the right psychologist for them?
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_00: That's a great question, um, Heather, and I'm really glad you've asked it because there it does feel like there's a lot of choice out there, and it's hard to know um you know who to go to.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_00: I would say, um, and this is really important, and not many people are aware of this, um, but in the UK in particular, um, the term psychologist is not what we call a protected title.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and that means that you can say that you're a psychologist, um, but maybe don't have the qualifications required to be registered with our governing body, which is the HCPC.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_00: Now, if you're registered with the HCPC, which I am, and the uh UK members of the team are, then that means that you have done the qualifications to a level that is expected for that profession, and then your um work, your job title is then protected.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_00: So educational psychologist is a protected title, health psychologist is protected, clinical psychologist, counselling psychologist, but psychologist as a standalone is not.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_00: So for families, I would say do your research on the clinic, um, check that everyone is licensed, and if you want to, you know, have a conversation about it, speak to the psychologist on the phone.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_00: Most clinics um would be happy to do that and be able to provide you with that information.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_00: In Dubai, all psychologists should be licensed by the CDA or the DHA.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_00: However, there is that caveat that that's not the same level as the UK standards, which is the HCPC registration.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_00: So it's slightly different.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um there's obviously differences with international degrees and how different countries uh qualify as a psychologist.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_00: So it's just something to be aware of and check that your psychologist's clinic is licensed by the CDA and or the DHA, and that everyone has insurance and their own professional license.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_00: So that would be something I would really stress.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_00: You know, your mental health is so important.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_00: The mental health and well-being of your family is so important.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_00: So please make the decision in an informed way and do your research.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, I think there are a lot of people out here who operate across a lot of different industries who aren't regulated, and I think it's so important, as you say, to make sure they are.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_00: So give me that name again, the CP.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_00: In Dubai, it's the CDA, the Community Development Authority, and the DHA, Dubai Health Authority.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_00: So the clinic, you would expect them to be regulated by one or both of those organisations.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_00: The psychologists themselves should also be licensed by one or both, depending on which branch of psychology they're in.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_00: And if it's a UK practice, or like for example, we've been set up as a UK practice, um the HCPC would be the governing body for the psychologists here.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_00: So HPCP, okay.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um and then just just as an aside, what would a family expect to pay for one initial consultation or two a full-blown educational psychology?
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_00: Ranges from um a consultation here at Connect is 700 dirhams.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um therapy is the same.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um we can do shorter sessions, they're at 400, and our assessments start from 5,000.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so 5,000, that's not bad because there's an awful lot of people charging a lot more money out there.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_00: So it it really varies.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and also most of our clients are able to claim it back on their insurance.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_00: So check with your insurance provider if psychological services is covered, and then we can sign and stamp your claim form.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_00: Amazing.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_01: And we will be back.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_01: You have so much information and you're so useful.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_01: We'll definitely be back shortly.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_01: Speak to you soon.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you, Ezra.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_01: As always, Connect Psychology welcomed us warmly, and we find they're a source of valuable information.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much for joining us on Let Them Fly, and we hope you'll tune in again next week.