Latest / This Jungian Life Podcast / DOG SYMBOLISM IN DREAMS: companions, protectors, and guides of souls

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DOG SYMBOLISM IN DREAMS: companions, protectors, and guides of souls · This Jungian Life Podcast

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Welcome to This Jungian Life. Three good friends and Jungian analysts,
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Lisa Marciano, Deborah Stewart, and Joseph Lee, invite you to
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: join them for an intimate and honest conversation that brings
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: a psychological perspective to important issues of the day.
• 0:19
  Speaker 2: I'm Lisa Marciano, and I'm a Jungian analyst in Philadelphia.
• 0:22
  Speaker 3: I'm Joseph Lee, and I'm a Jungian analyst in Virginia Beach, Virginia.
• 0:27
  Speaker 4: I'm Deborah Stewart, a Jungian analyst in Cape Cod.
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: The three of us have written a book. It's called Dreamwise,
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: Unlocking the Meaning of Your Dreams. And we're so proud
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: of having written it. And we're thrilled that it's going
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: to be out in the world soon. It will be
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: available on November 12th. So we encourage you to pre-order
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: it now. You can go to our brand new, beautiful
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: new website, dreamwisebook.com. And if you pre-ordered the book, you
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: can claim a free PDF to help with dream recall.
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: Also on the site, there's information about our dreamography project.
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: For the next 12 months, we're going to be exploring
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: a different type of dream. And this month, to kick
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: it off, we're looking at dog dreams. And that's what
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: today's episode is about. So we got lots of wonderful
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: submissions about dog dreams. Today, we're going to talk about
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: the archetype of the dog and look at as many
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: examples as possible. of how dogs show up in dreams.
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: And then we'll have a blog post about it, including
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: we'll publish some of the many fine examples that we
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: got so that you can look at the different ways
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: that dogs show up in dreams. Next up, we're looking
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: at wedding dreams. So you can head over to dreamwisebook.com
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: and click on Dreamography and share your wedding dream for
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: our November 2024 episode. So without further ado... Let's talk
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: about dogs and how they show up in dreams.
• 2:06
  Speaker 3: So, I mean, the first thing that's so important is
• 2:09
  Speaker 3: that dogs have been part of the human experience for
• 2:13
  Speaker 3: just an enormous amount of times. And there's a lot
• 2:17
  Speaker 3: of interesting anthropologic, archeologic interest in what is it about
• 2:22
  Speaker 3: humans and dogs?
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they've kind of co-evolved.
• 2:25
  Speaker 3: They've co-evolved. And interestingly, one theory is that When human
• 2:31
  Speaker 3: communities became large enough and sophisticated enough to create trash dumps, truly,
• 2:40
  Speaker 3: that a certain species of canine discovered that as a resource.
• 2:46
  Speaker 3: And so they would follow the humans and in a
• 2:49
  Speaker 3: sense slowly become dependent on them. There's another really interesting
• 2:54
  Speaker 3: piece of research that was done, I think in Russia,
• 2:57
  Speaker 3: where they were taking wild foxes. And they were breeding them.
• 3:00
  Speaker 3: And what they would do is that they would prioritize
• 3:04
  Speaker 3: foxes that were naturally less aggressive towards humans. And then
• 3:09
  Speaker 3: they would rebreed the less aggressive foxes. And the more
• 3:13
  Speaker 3: they rebred them, the more they started to look like dogs.
• 3:17
  Speaker 4: Oh, my goodness.
• 3:17
  Speaker 3: Modern dogs.
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 3:19
  Speaker 3: So there's something really interesting about this relationship between this
• 3:26
  Speaker 3: wild creature and humans.
• 3:27
  Speaker 4: That's really cool. And here is a link, you know,
• 3:32
  Speaker 4: in dogs, maybe to some extent cats, but our link
• 3:36
  Speaker 4: with the instinctual realm of the animal with its acute smell, hearing,
• 3:44
  Speaker 4: and more, and domesticity. And I'm just thinking about the
• 3:50
  Speaker 4: dogs that we had as pets and Absolutely fully fledged
• 3:57
  Speaker 4: members of the family. And how many people, millions upon millions.
• 4:03
  Speaker 4: We love our dogs. They love us. And we dream
• 4:07
  Speaker 4: about them.
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, the relationship between a person and their
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: dog can be so profound and so soulful. And don't worry,
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: we'll probably also do cat dreams too. So hang on,
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: cat lovers. But dogs, they protect us. They work for us.
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: They love us. And it's an incredibly soulful experience to
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: have that kind of relationship with a dog. And, you know,
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: I don't know about you, but it is so common
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: that dog dreams come into my practice. People a lot
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: of times dream about their own dog or maybe a
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: dog from childhood. But sometimes dogs appear in a more
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: mythological fashion as well. And I think You know, as
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: you were saying, Deb, dogs have such cute senses that
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  Speaker 2: they're a really wonderful symbol for an ability to sniff
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  Speaker 2: out things in the unconscious.
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  Speaker 4: Yes. And they bridge the realms. You know, the world
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  Speaker 4: of instinct, unconscious powers that we don't possess as humans.
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  Speaker 4: And they're our companions and live in our homes. And
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  Speaker 4: so they link us to realms of wildness in a
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  Speaker 4: really friendly kind of way. And they're also the guides
• 5:35
  Speaker 4: of our souls. They are the guides to the underworld
• 5:39
  Speaker 4: in mythology, the psychopomps who bridge the realms from the
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  Speaker 4: underworld to above ground, unconscious and provide that kind of
• 5:56
  Speaker 4: really important linking function.
• 6:00
  Speaker 3: And as we look at the dog from a mythic
• 6:04
  Speaker 3: and historical standpoint, the sentimental attitude towards dogs is fairly modern. Actually,
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  Speaker 3: dogs chose humans. Humans didn't choose dogs. Dogs discovered, for instance,
• 6:18
  Speaker 3: human refuse, and they just kept following along. And in
• 6:22
  Speaker 3: the ancient world, dogs were not, for the most part,
• 6:25
  Speaker 3: lap dogs, that they were part of the working environment,
• 6:30
  Speaker 3: that they were allies, that they were not held with
• 6:34
  Speaker 3: the same kind of child-parent dynamic which we have in
• 6:40
  Speaker 3: the modern world and love so much, by the way.
• 6:43
  Speaker 3: The dog to become our babies. But I have to
• 6:45
  Speaker 3: say that that's new. And in part, that has to
• 6:49
  Speaker 3: do with kind of socioeconomic resources, you know, one or
• 6:54
  Speaker 3: two generations ago, it's 1930, 1920, you had enough food
• 7:00
  Speaker 3: for your family that you weren't getting special food for
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  Speaker 3: your dog. Your dog kind of lived outside and loved you,
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  Speaker 3: protected you, but was much more in the realm of
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  Speaker 3: that wild aspect. We've domesticated them beautifully so, and I've
• 7:19
  Speaker 3: loved my dogs. But when we start thinking about how
• 7:23
  Speaker 3: they show up in dreams and how they show up
• 7:25
  Speaker 3: in mythology, I think we need to understand how much
• 7:30
  Speaker 3: more in the wild that the energy of the dog
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  Speaker 3: really is. One foot there and one foot with us.
• 7:37
  Speaker 3: One paw, excuse me.
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: Before we move on to sort of a mythological discussion
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  Speaker 2: and then we'll get to the dreams, I just actually
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: want to share a dog story from sort of personal mythology.
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  Speaker 2: which is a story that my dad has told me
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: from his childhood. So my dad grew up in North Georgia,
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: which is rattlesnake country. And they had a dog. I
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: can't remember the dog's name, but my dad still remembers it.
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  Speaker 2: And that dog was my dad's companion as he traipsed
• 8:09
  Speaker 2: all over the farm. It was, you know, acres and acres.
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  Speaker 2: So he's walking through the woods one day and the
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: dog is behind him. And then the dog, for whatever reason,
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: gets up in front of him. And a few feet later,
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: a rattlesnake jumps out and bites the dog. And so
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: it would have been my dad who would have been bitten. Now,
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: the dog, if I recall the story, the dog was okay.
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: They were able to treat it and the dog was okay.
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: So it's a happy ending. But just this remarkable thing,
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  Speaker 2: my dad has always felt like the dog had a
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: sense and did it to save him. So it's just
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: a great story.
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  Speaker 4: It's a wonderful story. And ironically enough, it takes me
• 8:57
  Speaker 4: to the flip side that we haven't talked about yet
• 9:00
  Speaker 4: of dogs in their more ferocious attacking ways. Guys, your
• 9:08
  Speaker 4: dad's dog attacked or was going to attack the snake.
• 9:12
  Speaker 4: Dogs have been used in warfare. Guard dogs, we've all
• 9:17
  Speaker 4: seen photos of German shepherds and other big dogs.
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  Speaker 2: German shepherds scare me.
• 9:24
  Speaker 4: Well... And so there it is of the dog that
• 9:29
  Speaker 4: can be harnessed for protective and, if necessary, lethal wounding
• 9:37
  Speaker 4: of a presumed enemy.
• 9:40
  Speaker 3: Sure.
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  Speaker 2: And dogs, every year, they maul and kill a certain
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: number of people. I don't have statistics on that, but
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: that is not unheard of. You know, walking in a neighborhood,
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: for example, where people don't fence or chain their dogs
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: and the dog comes leaping out at you, it's very unnerving.
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  Speaker 2: You feel really threatened when the dog does that.
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  Speaker 3: There was a famous movie in 1988 called The Cry
• 10:06
  Speaker 3: in the Dark that stars Meryl Streep, which was taken
• 10:11
  Speaker 3: from a terrible, tragic trial in Australia where a couple
• 10:17
  Speaker 3: was camping. They turned around and a wild dingo had
• 10:21
  Speaker 3: taken their baby. And because the mother was traumatized and
• 10:26
  Speaker 3: kind of stony, she was prosecuted because she couldn't convince
• 10:31
  Speaker 3: people that actually an animal had run off with a child.
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  Speaker 2: Oh, God.
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  Speaker 3: So, yes, dogs are amazing in so many areas of
• 10:42
  Speaker 3: the instinctive, the wild, the companion, the loved one. The
• 10:49
  Speaker 3: boy's best friend.
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 10:52
  Speaker 3: Incredible range of feelings and qualities, I think, most importantly,
• 10:58
  Speaker 3: that dogs can embody and do embody. And dogs were
• 11:03
  Speaker 3: used in the Deep South to hunt slaves that had
• 11:08
  Speaker 3: run away. So there is a kind of enormous cultural
• 11:12
  Speaker 3: trauma in the South about setting the dogs upon someone.
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  Speaker 4: Yep.
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  Speaker 3: That is still a terrifying remnant.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah. And still today with something like escaped prisoners or
• 11:29
  Speaker 4: we set the dogs out. And there is something very
• 11:34
  Speaker 4: terrifying about that. As I imagine, there must be for
• 11:38
  Speaker 4: the fox and the traditional fox hunt thing where the
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  Speaker 4: hounds are baying and pursuing in a way that is
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  Speaker 4: Almost Dionysian in the ecstasy that the dog experiences.
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  Speaker 2: And the people experience right alongside, I'm sure.
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  Speaker 4: Yes, exactly.
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  Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.
• 11:59
  Speaker 4: So they can link us.
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: The fever of the hunt.
• 12:02
  Speaker 4: Right, exactly. And they can inspire that in us.
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  Speaker 2: And that brings up what happened to Actaeon, right? When
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: he spied Artemis bathing and she did not like that
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: and she turned him into a stag and his own
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  Speaker 2: dogs ripped him limb to limb.
• 12:20
  Speaker 3: And there you are in the ancient world where dogs
• 12:25
  Speaker 3: were not lap dogs.
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  Speaker 4: Right.
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  Speaker 3: That they were powerful dogs. allies to humans, but they
• 12:31
  Speaker 3: were in their own right, fierce and dangerous and skilled,
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  Speaker 3: and they were hunters and protectors.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah.
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  Speaker 4: So what do we make of what dogs have become
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  Speaker 4: in a more modern era with, I don't know how
• 12:45
  Speaker 4: many different breeds that are shown in dog shows, and
• 12:50
  Speaker 4: the number of times that we have all, in any
• 12:53
  Speaker 4: town that I go into now, it seems, people are
• 12:57
  Speaker 4: wheeling their dogs around in strollers.
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  Speaker 3: But I think that the beautiful plasticity of the archetype
• 13:03
  Speaker 3: of the dog is how malleable the idea of the
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  Speaker 3: dog can be. If it's 1940 and you're on a farm,
• 13:14
  Speaker 3: a dog is malleable enough to leave out in the field.
• 13:19
  Speaker 3: And if you raise them with sheep, it'll think it's
• 13:21
  Speaker 3: a sheep and it'll extend all its protective ferocity and
• 13:24
  Speaker 3: drive wolves away in the modern era. Yeah. where we're
• 13:29
  Speaker 3: not living on farms, most of us aren't, but we
• 13:32
  Speaker 3: still have a need, the need to feel loved by
• 13:38
  Speaker 3: and to love and care for something that will return
• 13:41
  Speaker 3: our affection with enormous enthusiasm and companionship. We need a companion.
• 13:48
  Speaker 3: Dogs are malleable and we can shape them into being
• 13:51
  Speaker 3: our loving babies and our ever enthusiastic, innocent toddlers that
• 13:56
  Speaker 3: live in our homes. So the remarkable story is dogs
• 14:00
  Speaker 3: seem to become what we need in a given time
• 14:05
  Speaker 3: and space.
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  Speaker 4: I think that is really interesting and really important that
• 14:11
  Speaker 4: dogs take on our projections for what we need.
• 14:18
  Speaker 3: And they change in response to that because we treat
• 14:22
  Speaker 3: our dogs or we breed them a couple of different
• 14:24
  Speaker 3: ways to make them into sweet little babies and we
• 14:27
  Speaker 3: have You know, the little Tibetan dogs that they would
• 14:31
  Speaker 3: hide in the sleeves of their robes. They would just
• 14:34
  Speaker 3: live with them, these little Tibetan lap dogs. So they
• 14:40
  Speaker 3: become what we want and what we need over and
• 14:44
  Speaker 3: over and over again. Which is, when I say it
• 14:47
  Speaker 3: that way, it sounds a little intense, right? And they're still.
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: Animal and other animals.
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  Speaker 3: They are.
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: And so there is that sense of being allied and
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: having a deep connection with an instinctual being, even if
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: it's a little lap dog.
• 15:10
  Speaker 3: And they tolerate these multiple iterations of breedings. Not all
• 15:15
  Speaker 3: creatures also have such a malleable genetic dance that respond
• 15:22
  Speaker 3: to all kinds of varieties. And I suppose it's our
• 15:25
  Speaker 3: interest in combining and recombining. And now the doodling of
• 15:29
  Speaker 3: American dogs, you know, you're taking poodles and breeding them
• 15:34
  Speaker 3: with Labradors and their Labradoodles. Burmese mountain dogs and, you know, Burmadoodles.
• 15:43
  Speaker 4: Oh my gosh.
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: What are they called?
• 15:45
  Speaker 3: Burmadoodles.
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: No, I haven't seen that.
• 15:47
  Speaker 3: Yeah, my sister just got one. So, and now again,
• 15:52
  Speaker 3: The incredible plasticity of their own genetic code among various species.
• 15:59
  Speaker 3: You know, chihuahuas and Burmese mountain dogs can be bred
• 16:04
  Speaker 3: together and produce all kinds of interesting things. So this
• 16:11
  Speaker 3: incredible amount of varieties and traits. And dogs are responsive
• 16:15
  Speaker 3: to that. And of course, they're responsive to our imaginations.
• 16:19
  Speaker 3: They possibleize things. things in the human imagination.
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: I'm thinking about the little archetypal energy that they carry.
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: And I'm thinking about being in, say, a crowded train station,
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: and the gendarme comes along with a German shepherd tightly
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: held on a leash. And that dog is sniffing around,
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: and you know he's sniffing for drugs or bombs or whatever.
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: And it just gives me a little thrill my spine
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: that there's something numinous about that particular dog energy for me. And,
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: you know, and I think that they're so remarkable. You know,
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: there's some research that shows that they can detect cancer
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: in the urine of sufferers long before other tests can.
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: And that is where it feels like this is something, oh,
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: this is not something human. This is something really other.
• 17:22
  Speaker 4: Of course, I'm sure we're all familiar with, you know,
• 17:26
  Speaker 4: reading into people the characteristics of the dog they choose
• 17:31
  Speaker 4: to own. Yeah. And that the guards and police in
• 17:37
  Speaker 4: train stations, you know, they're with German shepherds. What about
• 17:42
  Speaker 4: the person who's walking a Yorkie? Yeah. They're so cute. And,
• 17:49
  Speaker 4: you know, and so it goes. You know, we read
• 17:53
  Speaker 4: something into that. And, you know, I've heard it said
• 17:58
  Speaker 4: that people look like their dogs. So it says something
• 18:03
  Speaker 4: about our own psychology of here's my pet dog and
• 18:08
  Speaker 4: which one is it? You know, is it a husky?
• 18:11
  Speaker 4: Is it a bloodhound? Is it a water dog? Right.
• 18:16
  Speaker 4: Or is it a little teacup poodle? Right.
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: So, Deb, you brought up before the fact that dogs
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: and mythology are often psychopomps or guides of souls. And
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: in a very particular way, too, because dogs are often
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: in mythology universally in just about every single culture. The
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: dog is either a guardian of the underworld or he
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: who guides the souls of the dead to the underworld.
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: So I'm thinking, of course, of Cerberus, the three-headed dog
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: of Greek mythology, who stands guard at the entrance to
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: the underworld, to Hades. And there's also, in Norse mythology,
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: there's a dog named Garm who guards Niflheim. In Aztec mythology,
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: there's Zolotl. And Zolotl was a dog-headed man who accompanied
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: the sun on his journey into darkness every day and
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: also served to guide souls to the underworld. And, you know,
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: it's in lots of other mythologies, too. I know, Joseph,
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: you're pretty versed in Egyptian mythology.
• 19:35
  Speaker 3: Yes, I think Anubis is a remarkable and wonderful image.
• 19:42
  Speaker 3: And particularly along the lines that we're talking about having
• 19:45
  Speaker 3: the archetype of the dog has a foot in more
• 19:49
  Speaker 3: than one world. in the evolution of God images which
• 19:55
  Speaker 3: Jung talks about in Ion we go from as humanity
• 20:01
  Speaker 3: worshipping animals and then we go to this worshipping of
• 20:05
  Speaker 3: animal-human hybrids so With Anubis, we have a human body,
• 20:11
  Speaker 3: but the head of an animal. And that captures some
• 20:15
  Speaker 3: of the things that we've been talking about, that there
• 20:18
  Speaker 3: is some part of our psyche that thinks of dogs
• 20:22
  Speaker 3: as human and dog-like. And that's captured very much in
• 20:29
  Speaker 3: the jackal-headed, not dog-headed, but jackal-headed creature. So Anubis was
• 20:36
  Speaker 3: really important in Egyptian cosmology that he was connected to
• 20:42
  Speaker 3: death and burial and the afterlife. And Anubis was the
• 20:48
  Speaker 3: protector of tombs and graves. And if we remember in
• 20:53
  Speaker 3: the ancient world, if your body was buried, animals could
• 20:58
  Speaker 3: dig it up.
• 20:58
  Speaker 4: Sure.
• 20:59
  Speaker 3: And of course, robbers could rob the things that had
• 21:05
  Speaker 3: been buried, which was considered a horrific event. violation because
• 21:10
  Speaker 3: the dead needed these objects that had been apportioned to them.
• 21:15
  Speaker 3: So Anubis was the archetype of who will guard us
• 21:21
  Speaker 3: when we are so vulnerable, when we're returned to that
• 21:26
  Speaker 3: state in the underworld of being swaddled and baby-like as
• 21:31
  Speaker 3: we are in the grave, that we need, psychologically, we
• 21:36
  Speaker 3: need to feel that something is going to protect us
• 21:40
  Speaker 3: when we are in that deep, deep, quiet place. By
• 21:46
  Speaker 3: the way, one of the places I've seen this in
• 21:48
  Speaker 3: my practice over and again is that when people fall
• 21:51
  Speaker 3: into an enormous depression, often their dog is the absolute lifeline. Yep, totally.
• 21:59
  Speaker 3: It's the thing that will never leave them, that is
• 22:02
  Speaker 3: always happy to see them.
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: And if you're suicidal, you think, I can't kill myself
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: because then what would happen to my dog?
• 22:10
  Speaker 3: So there is a way in which even now Anubis
• 22:13
  Speaker 3: is with you when you go into the psychological grave
• 22:16
  Speaker 3: and protects you and companions you. Anubis was one of
• 22:23
  Speaker 3: many God's guiding the souls of the dead to Hades.
• 22:29
  Speaker 3: So we can understand this in a way. In the
• 22:32
  Speaker 3: ancient world, there were no street lamps, no flashlights, and
• 22:36
  Speaker 3: if you had a candle, you weren't really going to
• 22:38
  Speaker 3: be able to take that on a mile walk between
• 22:41
  Speaker 3: houses or farms. Very few modern folks have ever been
• 22:46
  Speaker 3: outdoors at a time when it was so dark you
• 22:49
  Speaker 3: could not see your hand in front of your face.
• 22:53
  Speaker 3: And the first time I experienced that when I was
• 22:56
  Speaker 3: camping with the Boy Scouts, I didn't even know it
• 23:00
  Speaker 3: was possible to be in a darkness where I could
• 23:04
  Speaker 3: not see my hand an inch from my face. Joseph,
• 23:09
  Speaker 3: you were in the Boy Scouts? I loved the Boy Scouts.
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: All right, that's another story for another time, but I'm
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: putting a bookmark there.
• 23:14
  Speaker 3: Okay, go ahead. So if you needed to be outdoors,
• 23:21
  Speaker 3: both in terms of being protected, but also What could
• 23:25
  Speaker 3: find the way from your house to the barn even?
• 23:30
  Speaker 3: You would tie a rope to your dog and you
• 23:32
  Speaker 3: wouldn't just hold the rope, you would tie the rope
• 23:35
  Speaker 3: to you. Because if you drop that rope and the
• 23:39
  Speaker 3: dog goes off running somewhere, you're out of luck. And
• 23:42
  Speaker 3: you would depend 100% on your dog being able to
• 23:47
  Speaker 3: see in such low light to get you to the
• 23:51
  Speaker 3: barn or the neighbor's house and also to spy out danger.
• 23:56
  Speaker 3: So what a perfect mythologic figure to take you into
• 24:02
  Speaker 3: the darkest of dark places, which would be Hades and
• 24:06
  Speaker 3: the underworld. Anubis also, for reasons that I can't quite
• 24:11
  Speaker 3: wrap my head around, but aided Isis in both finding
• 24:18
  Speaker 3: the secrets of resurrection and aiding her in resurrecting Osiris.
• 24:27
  Speaker 3: The last bit that I would say, which I think
• 24:29
  Speaker 3: we can all identify with, is that in the symbolism
• 24:34
  Speaker 3: of Osiris, after he has died and been resurrected, that
• 24:39
  Speaker 3: he resides in the underworld in the hole of mat,
• 24:43
  Speaker 3: and he decides which of the souls of the dead
• 24:47
  Speaker 3: will be eaten, and disposed of in which of the
• 24:51
  Speaker 3: souls of the dead will be allowed to move into
• 24:55
  Speaker 3: an eternal life. And so the heart of the dead
• 24:59
  Speaker 3: is put on the scale and on one side is
• 25:03
  Speaker 3: the heart and the other is the feather of mat,
• 25:06
  Speaker 3: which is truth. But the one who holds the scale
• 25:10
  Speaker 3: is Anubis. And so it is a really interesting idea
• 25:15
  Speaker 3: that will you at the end of your life, Have
• 25:19
  Speaker 3: a heart that is like your dog's, that is that faithful,
• 25:24
  Speaker 3: that loving, that forgiving, that loyal, that enthusiastic. Or will
• 25:33
  Speaker 3: your heart be something else?
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: And so this is maybe where we can start to
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: move into the dream material because if you think about
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: all of these qualities that we've been talking about with dogs,
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: part of what they symbolize is The dog sense in us,
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: the unconscious perception that can see into the dark or
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: can sense the true quality of another person's character. And
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: so the dog is a tremendous symbol for our own
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: instincts and intuition.
• 26:10
  Speaker 4: And ongoing relatedness, almost no matter what the loyalty, connection, companioning, faithfulness,
• 26:21
  Speaker 4: you know, dogs by and large are good-hearted. And that
• 26:26
  Speaker 4: helps their souls weigh less than a feather.
• 26:32
  Speaker 3: And they are also the protector of the psyche.
• 26:34
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 26:35
  Speaker 3: That we wish we had internalized dogs so that when
• 26:38
  Speaker 3: we're in situations that don't smell right or somebody looks aggressive,
• 26:43
  Speaker 3: something in us, it'd be nice if something in us
• 26:45
  Speaker 3: just growled a little bit.
• 26:46
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 26:47
  Speaker 3: Like, I don't know about that car salesman. It'd be
• 26:55
  Speaker 3: nice to feel a little of that. You can tell
• 26:58
  Speaker 3: I have quite an inner dog.
• 27:00
  Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah. And our ability to similarly just sniff things out.
• 27:05
  Speaker 4: So here goes. That's right.
• 27:08
  Speaker 3: You get to come right up. It proves that easy
• 27:10
  Speaker 3: to choose a mate. Smells okay to me.
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: I'm not going there. I'm not going there. So we
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: got so many great dog dreams, and it was just
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: really hard to pick. I mean, just everyone was really great.
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: There's a couple themes. I think we have four that
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: we'll go into with a little more depth. But I'm
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: just going to read a couple. We're only going to
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: maybe comment briefly on some of these. But here's one.
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: This one comes from a woman who's 50 years old.
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: I'm inside somewhere, and there's a wood-burning stove. My dog
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: is with me and either she's trying to do something
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: with a heat or I've asked her to do something
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: with a heat, but she puts her front paws inside
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: a pile of ash and embers below the stove and
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: burns both paws. My husband gives me a paste to
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: put on the wounds, but I don't use it. I'm
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: alarmed that she burned herself, but I just watch her.
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: My husband then takes the paste and begins applying it
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: to her wounds. I know that she's in pain. I
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: think about all the dogs that burn up in house
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: fires and I'm sad for them because it would be
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: a very painful way to go. Our dog yelps a
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: bit as we apply the balm and I think that
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: maybe we should also bandage her paws so they can
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: heal and not get stuff stuck in the balm. Yeah,
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: so she notes that she had this dream three days
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: after her 50th birthday and the birthday felt significant to her.
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: And she had been sad because she hadn't felt celebrated
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: by her husband. So any quick thoughts about this one?
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: We're just going to brush over it a bit.
• 28:47
  Speaker 4: What I'm wondering about here, just from the very beginning,
• 28:52
  Speaker 4: is that the dog is trying to do something with
• 28:55
  Speaker 4: the heat.
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 28:57
  Speaker 4: Or I've asked her to do something with the heat.
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: Is the dog taking the heat somehow?
• 29:02
  Speaker 4: Exactly.
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: Exactly.
• 29:03
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 29:04
  Speaker 4: Exactly. Yeah. the dog part of her willing to take
• 29:08
  Speaker 4: the heat and the injury. A 50th birthday is a
• 29:15
  Speaker 4: big milestone. It's a big one. And she had not felt.
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: I wouldn't remember. It was so long ago.
• 29:25
  Speaker 4: Mine was just a year or so ago, so it's
• 29:27
  Speaker 4: still vivid. But that's it. A part of her is
• 29:34
  Speaker 4: taking the heat. for where she felt burned by... the
• 29:40
  Speaker 4: inattentiveness to her on this milestone birthday.
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: And then the husband is trying to effect a repair somehow.
• 29:49
  Speaker 3: So if I think of the dream as a medicine,
• 29:53
  Speaker 3: not simply just reflecting her known experience, the dream is
• 29:58
  Speaker 3: also saying, You had something to do with feeling burned.
• 30:05
  Speaker 3: You asked your dog to investigate the heat. The dog
• 30:09
  Speaker 3: is also part of you. So your instincts are off
• 30:16
  Speaker 3: because the dog wouldn't stick its paws in live coals.
• 30:22
  Speaker 3: So where might have you pushed your psyche into something
• 30:27
  Speaker 3: that's going to burn you so that The husband then
• 30:33
  Speaker 3: becomes alarmed and then has to tend you as if
• 30:37
  Speaker 3: you are wounded. Yeah. And that can be a really
• 30:40
  Speaker 3: complicated behavior that we do to get attention because we
• 30:46
  Speaker 3: don't feel like we're being seen as well as we
• 30:48
  Speaker 3: wish that we had.
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 30:51
  Speaker 3: So the dream is offering a tricky thing.
• 30:54
  Speaker 4: A way of making the wound visible. Hmm. You know,
• 31:01
  Speaker 4: we have hurt feelings or whatever. Those are inside. And
• 31:05
  Speaker 4: if we manifest something, as the dream does, as an
• 31:10
  Speaker 4: external bodily injury, how do we make it obvious? How
• 31:14
  Speaker 4: do we make it visible so as to get tending
• 31:19
  Speaker 4: and care?
• 31:20
  Speaker 3: And she's rather indifferent to what's happened. We don't have
• 31:26
  Speaker 3: a sense that she is horrified the way somebody might
• 31:29
  Speaker 3: be if they saw something. Or if you saw your
• 31:32
  Speaker 3: baby getting near something dangerous, you'd be flying across the room,
• 31:35
  Speaker 3: of course. She's just kind of there watching it happens.
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: But, you know, I think the stream is a good
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: example of a type where the dog kind of represents
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: a tender, innocent part of us. And that comes up
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: a lot. So let's look at another one. The next
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: one is a woman who's 34 years old. She says,
• 31:57
  Speaker 2: I'm in the hallway of my childhood home. Around the
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: corner of the hallway, you can see the back door.
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: The whole door is of window panels. It is night
• 32:06
  Speaker 2: and dark in the house, and I find myself feeling
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: terrified and looking around the corner to the back door.
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: I see the clown from It staring hungrily back at
• 32:15
  Speaker 2: me through the window panels. I immediately hide back in
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: the hallway. I think about my childhood golden retriever buddy
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: in the backyard with a killer clown. I later gather
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: enough courage to look back at the door and there
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: is no clown. I am somehow brave enough to tiptoe
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: up to the door and peer through the panels looking
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: for my furry friend. There he is laying down on
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: the back deck. He doesn't notice me, but he looks
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: tired and old. I am more than relieved and deeply
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: comforted to see him there. Again, so just quickly, what
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: do we, what do we think of this one? I mean, this,
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: this shows something really common. It happens in a lot
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: of dreams where their childhood dog appears.
• 33:00
  Speaker 3: What I think is so important here is that it
• 33:04
  Speaker 3: is like a horrifying fantasy from the film. Yeah. And
• 33:09
  Speaker 3: dogs marvelously being more instinctive. all right, as neurotic as
• 33:14
  Speaker 3: we are. We can be having a horrifying fantasy of
• 33:19
  Speaker 3: like some clown coming out of a sewer that's actually
• 33:22
  Speaker 3: a monster and your dog's like, oh, go to sleep. Oh,
• 33:25
  Speaker 3: just stop already.
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: Well, I just want to say some dogs are less neurotic, right?
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: There are neurotic dogs. But I really like that, Joseph,
• 33:32
  Speaker 2: that your instincts, like your ego can get all spun up, right?
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: And neurotically, you know, twisted. But your instincts are like, Snore.
• 33:42
  Speaker 3: Exactly. So she sees the image of the dog and
• 33:45
  Speaker 3: then a little dog dose comes into her, which is, oh,
• 33:47
  Speaker 3: I suddenly feel comforted. Right. And everything's okay. So the
• 33:51
  Speaker 3: dog is a medicine for the phantasmagoria of horrors that
• 33:56
  Speaker 3: we can get caught up in in our own minds.
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: Should we do another quick one, and then we'll go
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: and take a little deeper dive with a few of them?
• 34:05
  Speaker 4: Sure.
• 34:06
  Speaker 2: Okay, here's another quick one.
• 34:08
  Speaker 4: Does this one have a title?
• 34:12
  Speaker 2: This one, I called it Bubba Resurrected. So this is
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: a woman who's 52 years old. I often dream about
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: my beloved dog, Bubba, who passed away five years ago.
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: During my last dream, I saw that Bubba was resurrected
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: from his grave. I was so happy that I saw
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: that happening. He looked young again and very vibrant. My
• 34:37
  Speaker 2: only agony was that I didn't know how to count
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: how old he was this time around. He passed away
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: when he was 18, and I was wondering if I
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: should count the five years that he had been dead,
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: making him 23, or if I should start over. Both
• 34:54
  Speaker 2: options made me happy. If he was 23, that meant
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: I took really good care of him and he was
• 34:59
  Speaker 2: one of the most unique and long-lived dogs in the world.
• 35:03
  Speaker 2: The other option meant that he will be having another
• 35:06
  Speaker 2: full life to live with me. I was so happy
• 35:09
  Speaker 2: that he was alive. I felt complete again. I was
• 35:13
  Speaker 2: waking up though and realizing it was just a dream
• 35:16
  Speaker 2: and I became very sad and I started crying. And
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: she notes that she's currently going through menopause and finds
• 35:24
  Speaker 2: it She says, these are interesting associations. I also find
• 35:28
  Speaker 2: it difficult to find joy. I'm not experiencing depressive feelings,
• 35:32
  Speaker 2: but I rather find it hard to enjoy things that
• 35:34
  Speaker 2: used to make me happy. I do genuinely miss my dog.
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: I think I am experiencing complicated grief. And one thing
• 35:41
  Speaker 2: I want to say to the streamer, if she's listening,
• 35:45
  Speaker 2: is that being unable to enjoy things that you used
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: to like is a symptom of depression.
• 35:52
  Speaker 3: And Hedonia.
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so I think you might be underestimating. I think
• 35:57
  Speaker 2: you might be depressed is what I want to say
• 35:59
  Speaker 2: to this dreamer and would suggest that she look into
• 36:03
  Speaker 2: that perhaps.
• 36:05
  Speaker 3: A wonderful thing also is that for a moment, you
• 36:10
  Speaker 3: felt joy in your dreams.
• 36:12
  Speaker 4: Exactly.
• 36:13
  Speaker 3: Which is proof that even though when you're awake, you
• 36:16
  Speaker 3: can't imagine your own psyche being able to generate joy.
• 36:22
  Speaker 3: It really can. Somewhere that joy button is still alive
• 36:26
  Speaker 3: and well in you, even though in the waking mind
• 36:29
  Speaker 3: you can't find handles for that.
• 36:32
  Speaker 4: Yes. And dreams are famously, according to Jung, compensatory. So
• 36:39
  Speaker 4: while you're feeling all these more downhearted, possibly depressive symptoms,
• 36:45
  Speaker 4: the dream maker reminds you of the joy and understanding love, connection,
• 36:55
  Speaker 4: loving Eros, and allows you to wake up and experience
• 37:03
  Speaker 4: consciously the sadness. Sadness is not depression. Right. Tears are healing.
• 37:09
  Speaker 3: Exactly.
• 37:11
  Speaker 4: And so look at what a wonderful service the Dream
• 37:16
  Speaker 4: Maker has provided to you With this image, experience, memory
• 37:23
  Speaker 4: of love, attachment, connection, all the things that you write
• 37:29
  Speaker 4: in your comments of happiness and joy.
• 37:31
  Speaker 2: And Joseph, I'm thinking, you did a beautiful job a
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: minute ago about talking about how dogs accompany us during
• 37:38
  Speaker 2: a depression. Here's a great example where that shows up
• 37:42
  Speaker 2: in a dream. I mean, I'm assuming there is some
• 37:44
  Speaker 2: depression there. We don't actually know. Yeah, so true. But
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: certainly sadness. All right, let's take a little deeper dive next.
• 37:53
  Speaker 2: The ones that we're gonna talk about in a little
• 37:55
  Speaker 2: more depth are, we're doing so because they show some
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: themes that are common, I think. So this one is
• 38:08
  Speaker 2: about the dachshund in the cupboard. And it's from a
• 38:12
  Speaker 2: woman who's 31 years old. And she says, I got
• 38:16
  Speaker 2: woken up by this dream in the middle of the night.
• 38:19
  Speaker 2: And I think this is where the dream begins. I
• 38:21
  Speaker 2: moved into a new apartment. A friend and I had
• 38:24
  Speaker 2: been living together and now I was on my own.
• 38:27
  Speaker 2: My friend was having some conflict in her relationship. She
• 38:31
  Speaker 2: had told her partner something they didn't know yet about
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: another friend. And her partner became angry at this and
• 38:38
  Speaker 2: at her for saying it. Now I was in this
• 38:41
  Speaker 2: new apartment living alone. thinking about getting more phone chargers
• 38:46
  Speaker 2: and where I would store them. Suddenly, I heard squeaking, barking.
• 38:52
  Speaker 2: I opened a cupboard and found my dog there. He
• 38:55
  Speaker 2: was a very small dachshund. I had left him in
• 38:59
  Speaker 2: there all day while I was at work, in this
• 39:02
  Speaker 2: tiny cupboard. I must have put him in there while
• 39:05
  Speaker 2: moving and forgotten. I forgot all about him. I forgot
• 39:10
  Speaker 2: I even had a dog. I was so ashamed of this.
• 39:14
  Speaker 2: Once I opened the cupboard, I held him close to me,
• 39:17
  Speaker 2: and we were both so glad I was there. He
• 39:20
  Speaker 2: was so shaken. He could talk and said, the phone
• 39:25
  Speaker 2: kept notifying me, left dad at apartment. I was dazzled.
• 39:30
  Speaker 2: The dog was calling me dad. My phone or his
• 39:33
  Speaker 2: phone was in the cupboard with him. Sending him these
• 39:37
  Speaker 2: notifications about us being separated. He was probably barking all day,
• 39:41
  Speaker 2: not knowing where I was. And for context, she notes
• 39:45
  Speaker 2: the following. Four months ago, my partner and I broke up.
• 39:49
  Speaker 2: it still feels very recent and unhealed. My ex and
• 39:53
  Speaker 2: I really loved and connected with this Jungian life and
• 39:56
  Speaker 2: liked talking about our dreams. Back when our relationship was
• 40:00
  Speaker 2: starting to feel more serious, I got to an insecure,
• 40:04
  Speaker 2: fearful place about sharing my dreams, and that fear coincided
• 40:08
  Speaker 2: with a The guilt and humiliation that I felt in
• 40:15
  Speaker 2: this dream were stronger than any feeling I've ever felt
• 40:19
  Speaker 2: in my life.
• 40:20
  Speaker 4: Wow.
• 40:20
  Speaker 2: It was surprising to see that I could have this
• 40:23
  Speaker 2: strong of a feeling in a dream. I had so
• 40:26
  Speaker 2: much disappointment in myself for forgetting about the dog and
• 40:29
  Speaker 2: treating him this way, stuffing him in a closet. When
• 40:33
  Speaker 2: I reconnected with the dog and held him, it was
• 40:35
  Speaker 2: so comforting and loving, like reconnecting with a partner after
• 40:39
  Speaker 2: a long, long time away. And she also notes, I
• 40:43
  Speaker 2: grew up in a very dog-friendly family. We always had
• 40:46
  Speaker 2: one or two dogs at a time. I've always worked
• 40:49
  Speaker 2: as a dog walker, and she says, sorry, I've also
• 40:52
  Speaker 2: worked as a dog walker, and I love them but
• 40:55
  Speaker 2: don't have one of my own. I'm not in a
• 40:57
  Speaker 2: place in my life where I can have my own,
• 40:59
  Speaker 2: but I would like to one day. Two years ago,
• 41:02
  Speaker 2: I had a series of dreams about other people's pets,
• 41:05
  Speaker 2: often dogs escaping, sometimes biting me, and in one case,
• 41:09
  Speaker 2: comfortably roaming around a fenced-in street. It was always other
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: people's pets, friends whose houses I was in. I don't
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: remember having any dreams about my dog.
• 41:22
  Speaker 3: This dream makes me feel very emotional. I feel kind
• 41:24
  Speaker 3: of tearful just holding it.
• 41:29
  Speaker 4: You know, just as an overview, people do have dreams
• 41:37
  Speaker 4: about having abandoned a pet. with a theme of I
• 41:42
  Speaker 4: forgot all about it, and the sense of having abandoned
• 41:48
  Speaker 4: a feelingful part of oneself, you know, in the interest
• 41:55
  Speaker 4: of leading your life and being reality-based and doing the
• 42:00
  Speaker 4: things that make sense. And the abandoned pet shows up.
• 42:06
  Speaker 4: to remind us of our feeling and our attachment. And
• 42:13
  Speaker 4: what has been lost is the connection to that part
• 42:17
  Speaker 4: of ourselves that is loving and full of life. And
• 42:22
  Speaker 4: so this happens here, that somehow, by accident, the dog
• 42:27
  Speaker 4: got locked in a cupboard. And then the reunion of
• 42:33
  Speaker 4: feeling so ashamed and so guilty and holding him close
• 42:40
  Speaker 4: is a reuniting with part of herself.
• 42:43
  Speaker 2: And, you know, the Red Book begins something like, and
• 42:46
  Speaker 2: I wish I had the quote right in front of me,
• 42:47
  Speaker 2: but the Red Books, Jung's Red Book starts with, my soul,
• 42:51
  Speaker 2: my soul, where are you? Yeah.
• 42:53
  Speaker 4: Yeah. I am curious to see if you guys have
• 42:58
  Speaker 4: any thoughts about, this could have been another kind of animal.
• 43:04
  Speaker 4: Sometimes people, kittens are featured in this.
• 43:07
  Speaker 2: Type of- Sure, or babies. Babies. Babies. We've got babies
• 43:10
  Speaker 2: in dreams. That may be another episode.
• 43:12
  Speaker 4: Not only a dog, but a dachshund.
• 43:16
  Speaker 3: I just want to put on the table, I am curious,
• 43:18
  Speaker 3: because dachshunds are hunting dogs. They go underground and they
• 43:21
  Speaker 3: hunt badgers.
• 43:22
  Speaker 2: Really?
• 43:22
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah. full-sized dachshunds are big and they're like
• 43:27
  Speaker 3: going kill like big badgers under the ground um so
• 43:34
  Speaker 3: to me i think what seems significant is that she's
• 43:38
  Speaker 3: had this loss so there's a separation between her and
• 43:41
  Speaker 3: her part and then she has a dream where a
• 43:43
  Speaker 3: shadow figure has said something to the partner and the
• 43:48
  Speaker 3: partner has become angry and created stress so there's the word,
• 43:54
  Speaker 3: the thing that is spoken that creates disharmony. The next scene,
• 43:59
  Speaker 3: she's single. There's something that's been hidden away. Most importantly,
• 44:04
  Speaker 3: when she does find the ducks and they're so glad
• 44:07
  Speaker 3: to be together. So this capacity to attach comes back.
• 44:14
  Speaker 3: How many times when we Lose a relationship. We have
• 44:18
  Speaker 3: to harden ourselves.
• 44:20
  Speaker 4: Exactly.
• 44:21
  Speaker 3: I don't need anybody. I'm not going to think about it.
• 44:24
  Speaker 3: I'm a singular being, which we need to do in
• 44:28
  Speaker 3: brief or else we'll just bleed out emotionally on the ground.
• 44:31
  Speaker 3: We have to get a little angry.
• 44:33
  Speaker 2: Tough.
• 44:34
  Speaker 3: But the thing that's so important to me is that
• 44:37
  Speaker 3: the little one that holds gladness in the reunion is
• 44:42
  Speaker 3: talking about dad leaving. Yeah.
• 44:44
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 44:44
  Speaker 3: And so there's a probably very gentle and very vulnerable
• 44:49
  Speaker 3: story about some wound about dad leaving, an attachment wound
• 44:57
  Speaker 3: between she as a little one, dad leaving, that somehow
• 45:03
  Speaker 3: is echoing in the separation and the loss with the partner.
• 45:07
  Speaker 3: Leaving and dad leaving is vibrating down to this really little, vulnerable,
• 45:15
  Speaker 3: sweet part of her. And that she's comforting that part
• 45:19
  Speaker 3: of herself in the dream.
• 45:21
  Speaker 2: But she's also left herself.
• 45:25
  Speaker 3: Yes, she put away that part of herself. I think
• 45:29
  Speaker 3: that's what I'm saying.
• 45:30
  Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah.
• 45:30
  Speaker 2: No, I'm agreeing with you that there's been these multiple losses.
• 45:34
  Speaker 2: I really like what you did with dad there. The
• 45:37
  Speaker 2: dad may have left in some way, even if it
• 45:39
  Speaker 2: was just emotionally. The partner left. And in a way,
• 45:42
  Speaker 2: she left herself. It's just these multiple layers. That's really lovely, Joseph.
• 45:47
  Speaker 2: You know, I want to say, too, that in DreamWise,
• 45:50
  Speaker 2: Unlocking the Meaning of Your Dreams, which is our new book,
• 45:52
  Speaker 2: which you can pre-order. And we hope you will. You know,
• 45:56
  Speaker 2: this is a common theme, Deb, that you talked about,
• 45:59
  Speaker 2: about sort of the abandoned, the forgotten pet or the
• 46:01
  Speaker 2: forgotten child. And there actually is a really lovely dream
• 46:05
  Speaker 2: in DreamWise. about a forgotten dog, actually forgotten dog and children.
• 46:10
  Speaker 2: There are about, I think, 160 sample dreams in DreamWise,
• 46:15
  Speaker 2: and many of them come from you, our listeners, as
• 46:19
  Speaker 2: this dream I just referenced did. So take a look
• 46:21
  Speaker 2: at that, too.
• 46:22
  Speaker 4: Yeah. And the reconnection with the innocent, young, vulnerable part
• 46:31
  Speaker 4: of the self that the animal represents. And how important
• 46:38
  Speaker 4: it is to have the reuniting. Okay.
• 46:42
  Speaker 2: Let's drill down into another one.
• 46:46
  Speaker 4: This is, this is like speed dating. It is.
• 46:51
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 46:54
  Speaker 2: I am looking for a certain one.
• 46:56
  Speaker 4: Oh, come on.
• 46:57
  Speaker 3: Wouldn't that be hilarious form of speed dating that, A
• 47:01
  Speaker 3: bunch of people want to date, but you have to
• 47:03
  Speaker 3: tell a dream instead of like anything else you might say.
• 47:06
  Speaker 3: You have five minutes.
• 47:07
  Speaker 2: That's great.
• 47:07
  Speaker 3: Both of you tell a dream and then you're on
• 47:09
  Speaker 3: to the next.
• 47:11
  Speaker 2: Joseph?
• 47:12
  Speaker 3: A million dollar idea, man.
• 47:14
  Speaker 2: That is the next reality TV show.
• 47:16
  Speaker 3: That's right. Speed dream dating.
• 47:19
  Speaker 2: Speed dream dating.
• 47:20
  Speaker 4: All right.
• 47:20
  Speaker 2: This next one is called, I called it, so you
• 47:24
  Speaker 2: guys can find it. I called it the Emaciated Dog Series.
• 47:28
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 47:30
  Speaker 2: And this is super interesting. You know, one of the
• 47:32
  Speaker 2: things that we haven't talked about on the podcast yet
• 47:36
  Speaker 2: is the Importance of Dreams series, which I really, I
• 47:39
  Speaker 2: hope we can do an episode about that one day.
• 47:40
  Speaker 2: But this is a great example of a series. Okay.
• 47:43
  Speaker 2: So this comes from a woman in her early 60s.
• 47:47
  Speaker 2: She says, over a period of two and a half years,
• 47:49
  Speaker 2: I had a series of dreams about my dog, who
• 47:52
  Speaker 2: was my companion from the age of 16 through 26.
• 47:57
  Speaker 2: The first dream began with her coming up to me
• 47:59
  Speaker 2: and wagging her tail. I was so happy to see her.
• 48:03
  Speaker 2: It had been so many years since we had been together.
• 48:07
  Speaker 2: But then I realized, oh my God, all this time
• 48:10
  Speaker 2: I had forgotten to feed her and take care of her.
• 48:13
  Speaker 2: So I quickly filled a bowl and put it down
• 48:16
  Speaker 2: for her to eat. Each successive dream she came to me.
• 48:20
  Speaker 2: But with each dream, she became more emaciated until finally
• 48:25
  Speaker 2: she died at my feet. However, in the final dream
• 48:29
  Speaker 2: of the series, she came back to me all fat
• 48:33
  Speaker 2: and happy, her fur coat all full and luxurious, her
• 48:37
  Speaker 2: deep brown eyes full of love and wisdom. And here's
• 48:42
  Speaker 2: the context. These dreams began shortly after my dissertation research
• 48:47
  Speaker 2: proposal was approved in the spring of 2020 and continued
• 48:52
  Speaker 2: through the research and hardest part of the analysis. Although
• 48:56
  Speaker 2: the research involved individual interviews with a small group of participants,
• 49:01
  Speaker 2: it was also a very personal topic for me. As
• 49:05
  Speaker 2: part of the research process, I had to keep a
• 49:07
  Speaker 2: reflective journal, so there was a record of ongoing personal
• 49:11
  Speaker 2: challenges and insights as the work progressed. Notably, the dream
• 49:15
  Speaker 2: in which my dog was reborn came after the bulk
• 49:18
  Speaker 2: of analysis was complete. and I had just written a
• 49:21
  Speaker 2: draft of the closing sections of the paper. So the
• 49:26
  Speaker 2: main feelings in the dream were, I was so happy
• 49:30
  Speaker 2: to see my sweet dog again, but with each successive dream,
• 49:34
  Speaker 2: I became more distraught and anxious and eventually horrified about
• 49:39
  Speaker 2: her deteriorating condition. The feelings would last for days after
• 49:44
  Speaker 2: each dream. Thinking about those dreams still makes me cry.
• 49:48
  Speaker 2: At first, I thought the dreams and associated emotions were
• 49:51
  Speaker 2: related to the pandemic and lockdowns, which began the same
• 49:54
  Speaker 2: month my research proposal was approved. However, after the final
• 49:58
  Speaker 2: dream in which she returned, I realized that these dreams
• 50:01
  Speaker 2: were more deeply personal. And here are some of her
• 50:04
  Speaker 2: associations with dogs and other elements of the dreams. After
• 50:09
  Speaker 2: the final dream, I began to wonder in earnest what
• 50:11
  Speaker 2: the dream series meant symbolically. As luck would have it,
• 50:14
  Speaker 2: I came across a book by Jungian analyst Eleanor Walloy,
• 50:18
  Speaker 2: friend of Joseph Lee, the symbol of the dog and
• 50:21
  Speaker 2: the human psyche. Walloy first discusses the nature of the
• 50:25
  Speaker 2: human-dog bond in terms of attachment, where the dog can
• 50:29
  Speaker 2: also serve as a transitional object. This struck me as
• 50:33
  Speaker 2: right on. She also talks about how symbolically the dog
• 50:37
  Speaker 2: is representative of our instinctual nature and, in mythology, often
• 50:42
  Speaker 2: serves as a psychopomp. At this point, I realized that
• 50:45
  Speaker 2: my dog's death and rebirth represented a deep-seated personal transformation
• 50:50
  Speaker 2: as a result of the research process. Notably, my research
• 50:54
  Speaker 2: was about closed adoption, understanding attachment archetypally, and myths and
• 51:01
  Speaker 2: stories deeply. that were important to the adoptees participants as
• 51:06
  Speaker 2: part of their personal experience. So really profound stuff here and,
• 51:13
  Speaker 2: and brings in a lot of themes.
• 51:17
  Speaker 4: Well, I think this dreamer has done quite a really
• 51:20
  Speaker 4: good job of analyzing and understanding her own dream. And I'm,
• 51:26
  Speaker 4: I'm touched by the topic of her research project. Yep. It,
• 51:32
  Speaker 4: is a topic that is very full of feeling. Adoption
• 51:40
  Speaker 4: and losses and gains and attachment are very much intertwined.
• 51:47
  Speaker 4: What I am most heartened by is that as the
• 51:52
  Speaker 4: streamer's dissertation topic was approved and she engaged in it,
• 51:58
  Speaker 4: that the ending... The resolution, the lysis, as we say,
• 52:04
  Speaker 4: is that the dog came back all fat and happy,
• 52:08
  Speaker 4: her coat full and luxurious, and her deep brown eyes
• 52:13
  Speaker 4: full of love and wisdom. And if that's not an
• 52:16
  Speaker 4: image of the psychic journey this dreamer was on as
• 52:23
  Speaker 4: she had these dreams and undertook her dissertation journey, I
• 52:27
  Speaker 4: don't know what is.
• 52:29
  Speaker 2: Well, it also, I think, lifts up this point about dogs,
• 52:34
  Speaker 2: you know, link with the underworld, the underworld of death,
• 52:37
  Speaker 2: because there was a symbolic death and resurrection, and depression,
• 52:41
  Speaker 2: the underworld of depression, that she was on this journey
• 52:45
  Speaker 2: and her dog was too. And the sorrow that she
• 52:49
  Speaker 2: felt for the dog was, of course, sorrow for her
• 52:52
  Speaker 2: own attachment, early life attachment wounds.
• 52:54
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 52:58
  Speaker 3: It makes me think about how many things we have
• 53:03
  Speaker 3: to set aside in order to take on an enormous
• 53:06
  Speaker 3: project like writing a thesis. And in a sense, the
• 53:11
  Speaker 3: dog was sacrificed to the great task of writing the thesis.
• 53:17
  Speaker 3: I think one of the things we can take away
• 53:19
  Speaker 3: from the dream is even when we hit the nadir
• 53:24
  Speaker 3: of a point of suffering, Very few things in the
• 53:28
  Speaker 3: psyche actually die, even though we're sure that something in
• 53:33
  Speaker 3: us has suffered unto death. And yet when the libido
• 53:38
  Speaker 3: is freed up from the great task of the research paper,
• 53:41
  Speaker 3: the water of life diverts again to some other images
• 53:46
  Speaker 3: inside of the psyche, and here perhaps even to one
• 53:49
  Speaker 3: of the symbols of relationship. When I think of my
• 53:53
  Speaker 3: own struggles to write a thesis, our own three of
• 53:57
  Speaker 3: us struggles with our training program. How many relationships, both
• 54:02
  Speaker 3: intimate and otherwise, did we have to pull water away from,
• 54:07
  Speaker 3: pull resource away from in order to just have the
• 54:10
  Speaker 3: time and energy to do this reconstructive great task? So
• 54:16
  Speaker 3: I think the dream really offers her an opportunity upon
• 54:22
  Speaker 3: reflection to think about what it cost her to sequester
• 54:28
  Speaker 3: herself to do this writing, the kind of suffering that
• 54:34
  Speaker 3: being secluded and focused induces, what parts of her soul
• 54:38
  Speaker 3: went unfed that had to be set aside and maybe
• 54:43
  Speaker 3: even ignored, and what an enormous relief it is to
• 54:47
  Speaker 3: be completed with a Herculean task and being able to
• 54:52
  Speaker 3: rest back into your natural personality and once again tend
• 54:57
  Speaker 3: the things that give you joy and love and wisdom.
• 55:02
  Speaker 3: So the time of sacrifice and austerity has finished, the
• 55:08
  Speaker 3: labor is done, and now can you flourish again? And
• 55:12
  Speaker 3: the dream is suggesting fat, happy, luxurious love, wisdom, it
• 55:18
  Speaker 3: didn't die, your life's come back. All the austerity of
• 55:25
  Speaker 3: writing the book like John of the Cross, you know,
• 55:28
  Speaker 3: and Patmos, it's over. You know, the good stuff can
• 55:31
  Speaker 3: come back.
• 55:33
  Speaker 2: So one of the things I wanted to lift up
• 55:35
  Speaker 2: about this dream is how are these the series of
• 55:37
  Speaker 2: dreams is how it relates to some of the dreams
• 55:40
  Speaker 2: we've just looked at, right? The return of a childhood
• 55:43
  Speaker 2: or a dog from an earlier time. And we might
• 55:47
  Speaker 2: wonder in those cases about, you know, what was going
• 55:50
  Speaker 2: on in your life and the time that you had
• 55:52
  Speaker 2: the dog who reappears in your dream. There's literally a
• 55:54
  Speaker 2: dog that comes back to life. We've now seen that twice.
• 55:57
  Speaker 2: And also the forgotten dog. Oh, gosh, I forgot about
• 56:00
  Speaker 2: this dog. I left it untended for. I mean, you know,
• 56:04
  Speaker 2: writing something that's deeply personal, it is a process of
• 56:07
  Speaker 2: psychological work. And what I imagine purely my fantasy is
• 56:12
  Speaker 2: that when we've been adopted, there is so much There's
• 56:17
  Speaker 2: so many unshed tears. There's so much unmetabolized grief, especially
• 56:22
  Speaker 2: if the adoption happened early in life that we just don't,
• 56:27
  Speaker 2: we know, I mean, as an infant, you have some
• 56:29
  Speaker 2: sense of my mom was there and then she's not.
• 56:31
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's not a, it can't be a biographical memory,
• 56:35
  Speaker 2: but there's some sense of that. There's some imprint of
• 56:37
  Speaker 2: that and it doesn't get mourned. And my imagination is
• 56:42
  Speaker 2: that this process of writing was a mourning and that
• 56:45
  Speaker 2: the dream's show that process of mourning that which wasn't.
• 56:51
  Speaker 2: But there was a final integration as there often is
• 56:55
  Speaker 2: when we do real deep psychological work.
• 56:59
  Speaker 3: Well said.
• 57:00
  Speaker 2: Okay, let's look at another one. Okay, so this one
• 57:07
  Speaker 2: is called, I called it German Shepherd Attacking. And I
• 57:12
  Speaker 2: wanted to make sure we got this one in because
• 57:16
  Speaker 2: most dog dreams, I think, are like the ones we've
• 57:18
  Speaker 2: heard already, where the dog kind of represents a kind
• 57:21
  Speaker 2: of tender part of us that maybe is wounded, that
• 57:24
  Speaker 2: needs our care and love. But this is a very
• 57:26
  Speaker 2: different aspect of the dog archetype, but an important one,
• 57:30
  Speaker 2: as we discussed earlier. So this is a woman who's
• 57:34
  Speaker 2: 26 years old. And here's the dream. A dark German
• 57:38
  Speaker 2: shepherd dog or something similar was attacking me. It felt
• 57:42
  Speaker 2: like I really knew this dog, like it wasn't just
• 57:44
  Speaker 2: some random dog on the street. It felt personal. I
• 57:48
  Speaker 2: didn't notice any blood or wounds, but that I kept
• 57:50
  Speaker 2: trying to get the dog to see I was an
• 57:52
  Speaker 2: okay human and that it didn't need to attack me.
• 57:56
  Speaker 2: I repeatedly tried to stroke it and calm it, even
• 57:59
  Speaker 2: though I was a little scared, but I tried to
• 58:01
  Speaker 2: hide that fear. It felt like desperation, like my heart
• 58:05
  Speaker 2: was hurting because I wanted it to love me. I
• 58:08
  Speaker 2: think I had tears in my eyes. And she notes,
• 58:10
  Speaker 2: I love dogs. I've grown up with dogs my whole
• 58:13
  Speaker 2: life and feel quite confident with them. And for the context,
• 58:17
  Speaker 2: she says, dealing with grief and the loss of family members,
• 58:20
  Speaker 2: the realization that one day everyone I love will die too,
• 58:24
  Speaker 2: as will I. Getting older and understanding what that means
• 58:28
  Speaker 2: beyond a superficial level, trying to do shadow work and
• 58:31
  Speaker 2: make my darkness more conscious so I can be a
• 58:34
  Speaker 2: better and less angry person. trying to understand my attachment
• 58:37
  Speaker 2: style and also the fear I have of not being
• 58:40
  Speaker 2: good enough for anyone, mostly romantically, but generally too, trying
• 58:44
  Speaker 2: to get over someone who couldn't show up for me
• 58:46
  Speaker 2: in the way I was willing to show up for them.
• 58:49
  Speaker 2: The main feelings in the dream were sad. I just
• 58:52
  Speaker 2: wanted the dog to know that I was okay and
• 58:54
  Speaker 2: I wasn't going to hurt it. I wanted it to
• 58:56
  Speaker 2: see the real me and that I just want to
• 58:59
  Speaker 2: be loved. I also felt scared, but I was very
• 59:02
  Speaker 2: patient and persevered with my efforts. She says, well, maybe
• 59:07
  Speaker 2: the dog is me, the very wounded and hurt part
• 59:09
  Speaker 2: of me. who doesn't feel like she can trust anyone.
• 59:12
  Speaker 2: Maybe I know my loyalty. Dogs are usually very loyal, right?
• 59:16
  Speaker 2: And don't expect anyone else to be so loyal. Maybe
• 59:19
  Speaker 2: I expect that people will always hurt me or I
• 59:21
  Speaker 2: have to be cautious. Or maybe the dog is the
• 59:24
  Speaker 2: people who hurt me that I run towards trying to
• 59:26
  Speaker 2: convince them that I'm lovable and And worthy of sticking
• 59:29
  Speaker 2: by for life.
• 59:31
  Speaker 3: One thing that I think is important is that the
• 59:34
  Speaker 3: dream ego interprets this as being attacked, but she doesn't
• 59:38
  Speaker 3: notice any blood or any wounds. Which gives me a
• 59:42
  Speaker 3: sense that what we're seeing is that the dog is
• 59:45
  Speaker 3: being aggressive. And we're also seeing a dynamic that's really,
• 59:50
  Speaker 3: really primal. That in a pack of dogs, if the
• 59:55
  Speaker 3: alpha dog starts snapping and growling and grabbing the other
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 3: dogs who are, if they're not going to challenge, fawn.
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 3: They go on their bellies, they lick, they wag their tails,
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 3: become submissive. And so this primal pattern is absolutely happening
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 3: in this dream. If we imagined her being another puppy
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 3: or a dog in the pack, she's doing exactly what
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 3: one would do in order to be part of to
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 3: fit in. So my question would be, and I'm not
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 3: sure what she would make of it, is what does
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 3: the German shepherd represent in the psyche that is determined
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 3: to be the dominant in the psychic environment? And it
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 3: is part of her. So something that isn't the ego
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 3: is saying, I'm in charge. I'm the one that's going
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 3: to smell out things, I'm going to find the food,
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 3: I'm going to lead the pack through the wilderness and
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 3: take care. And it expects the ego to be subordinate,
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 3: and the ego, in fact, does play the subordinate role.
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 3: Don't know whether that's good or bad for her psychic structure,
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 3: but what's playing out is really primal. Yep.
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 4: What I'm paying attention to here is our dream ego...
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 4: Trying to befriend this dog.
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 4: And fairy tales teach us all kinds of ways. They're
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 4: sort of our big collective history of psychic options in
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 4: a dilemma. You know, we can run away, we can fight,
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 4: we can trick people, we can befriend people. But what
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 4: I pay attention to here is our dream ego's insistence
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 4: on befriending. My heart was hurting because I wanted it
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 4: to love me. She was scared, tries to hide the fear.
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 4: And then there's desperation that this loving intention has to
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 4: somehow land. And her comments reflect the same dynamic. Whereas
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 4: I wonder if what it would be like if the
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 4: dream ego or perhaps our dreamer took a more authoritative stance.
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 4: Which builds on what I think you were referring to, Joseph,
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 4: with the pack, that if you have to be the leader,
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 4: you have to be authoritative, you have to be in
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 4: charge of set Sit, lie down, stop. Is it necessary
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 4: somehow to give up the hope for attachment and bonding
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 4: and affection in order to assert one's own authority, separateness,
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 4: and will?
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 2: So I'm going to just take that just another notch forward,
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 2: I think, which is I have this hypothesis that's in
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 2: the associations. She says a lot about I'm loyal. I
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 2: want to be loved. I just want people to like me.
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 2: I want to, you know, I don't know why I'm
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 2: not loved. But she also says that she's trying to
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 2: be a less angry person, which tells me that she
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 2: considers herself to be an angry person. And Deb.
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 2: Picking up on what you're saying, her reaction to the
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 2: dog is, oh, let me pet you. Let me pet you.
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 2: But the dog part of her psyche might be looking
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 2: for a different kind of engagement. I mean, stroking and
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 2: petting and kissing is not the only way to bond.
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 2: And in really engaging it with some muscularity might be
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 2: actually what the dog part of her psyche has showed
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 2: in the dream is looking for. Because we might imagine...
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 2: that this is the aggressive, angry part of her. And
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 2: she's not in a right relationship with it because she's
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 2: expecting it to be docile. And it may be that
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 2: she's trying to make herself be docile, but the invitation
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 2: might be, well, could you step into the angry dog
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 2: role a little bit more? If you do that with consciousness,
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 2: it can be very effective.
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 3: A last thought I wanted to pick up on, Lisa,
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 3: which you were inferring is that there's a paradigm in
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 3: the dream of the alpha aggressive German Shepherd and expecting
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 3: the ego or perhaps anyone else around it to become
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 3: submissive to it in order to be part of the pack.
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 3: And yes, the ego might identify with the alpha dog attitude.
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 3: Maybe that is important for her sometimes or any of
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 3: the other responses. But There is, from a naturalistic standpoint,
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 3: there is something troubling about the human ego being subordinate
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 3: to the animal. So it may well be that the
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 3: ego needs to stand up and take a Caesar Milan
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 3: dog whisperer courses and feel confident and be able to
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 3: take that instinctive aggression inside of her and not hurt
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 3: it yes actually harness it like figure out how to
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 3: companion this really vibrant um yeah what could be a
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 3: positive animus figure so if if the dog was really
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 3: her ally it would protect her smell things out keep
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 3: her company might be a really serious muscular part of
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 3: her psyche but i mean a well-trained german shepherd can
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 3: can be rather a wonderful thing.
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 2: I have fantasies of having a well-trained German shepherd because
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 2: I think as much as they scare me when they
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 2: belong to someone else, I was like, wouldn't it be
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 2: great to have one? You know, they're.
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 4: Loyal to you.
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. So, we hope you've enjoyed the episode. You
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 2: can check out, there'll be a blog post to go
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 2: along with the episode that's a little bit more fulsome
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 2: than our usual show notes with some some extra dreams.
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 2: And you can read all about dog dreams at dreamwisebook.com.
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 2: And that'll be on the on the blog section of
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 2: the site. And next up, we'll be looking at wedding dreams.
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 2: So check out dreamwisebook.com. Click on dreamography and submit your
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 2: wedding dream for our next dreamography episode next month. Thank
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 2: you so much. Thanks for listening. To submit a dream,
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 2: suggest an episode topic, or join our mailing list, visit
• 1:06:44
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• 1:06:49
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