Latest / The Advancing Healthcare Innovation Show / E175: Regine Villain and the Weight Behind the Title

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E175: Regine Villain and the Weight Behind the Title · The Advancing Healthcare Innovation Show

0:11
Hello and welcome back to the Advancing
0:12
Health Innovation Show. I am your host,
0:15
Michael Stamatinos. Welcome. Great to
0:18
have you here. And if you're new to us,
0:19
we're super excited because we're having
0:21
just some really great conversations,
0:23
candid conversations with real leaders
0:26
that are painstakingly reshaping the
0:28
future of healthcare and care delivery.
0:30
And we're happen to be passionate about
0:31
a few different areas. We're passionate
0:33
about healthcare innovation, about
0:34
leadership, about access, and the
0:37
adoption of those innovations. And if
0:39
it's your first time tuning in, let me
0:41
just let me just take a quick step back
0:42
here and just give you a little bit more
0:43
of the of the rundown of what we're uh
0:46
trying to get done here. So, our focus
0:48
is on bringing real stories of
0:50
innovation to life. Not just the stuff
0:52
that you see on the highlight reels, but
0:55
real stuff, people that are really
0:56
innovating and getting things done and
0:58
also talking about the wins and talking
1:00
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1:02
opportunity for the guests to be able to
1:04
share their story, all those things to
1:07
our community and ultimately with the
1:10
world. And wherever you are, if you
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1:13
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this, hit the subscribe button now so
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that any of the new episodes come
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directly to you. Okay. So before we
1:26
start in this episode, uh I just want to
1:28
be very clear about something. This
1:30
conversation today, uh despite this
1:33
senior leader being a supply chain
1:35
leader is actually not about supply
1:36
chain. It's actually about leadership.
1:40
the part that people don't talk about uh
1:42
the quiet pressure, the long days, the
1:46
weight of the responsibility that
1:48
doesn't turn off. So my guest today is
1:52
Rejene Villain, the chief supply chain
1:55
officer at Auctioner Health. Honestly
1:58
guys, she's so impressive. Uh she leads
2:01
one of the most complex operations in
2:03
healthcare. Um her title is not the
2:06
story. The story that we're going to
2:08
share today is really around what it
2:10
means to carry the weight of that
2:11
responsibility for people especially
2:14
when things are uncertain and if there's
2:16
anything that we've seen over the last
2:17
few years things are very uncertain. So
2:19
Rejine has led through moments where the
2:23
system kind of was held together but
2:24
she's also led through moments where
2:27
things barely were held together. And I
2:30
think what sets her apart from sort of
2:32
our short relationship that we've uh
2:34
since started out is she's not like a
2:37
performative leader. Um she's super
2:40
serious about the work that it takes
2:42
behind the scenes and connecting with
2:44
people and really leveling with them. So
2:46
this conversation today is about the
2:49
type of leadership that rarely gets
2:51
named um and the discipline that it
2:54
takes to stay steady especially when
2:57
when others around you need you to keep
2:59
moving forward. So my hope is that it's
3:01
going to be just like our other
3:03
conversations which have been rigorously
3:05
honest. Uh and I'm grateful that she
3:08
agreed and said yes to this. So Rejime
3:10
it's great to see you. Welcome to the
3:12
show.
3:14
Wow, Michael, listening to you, you
3:17
certainly make me sound very, very
3:20
impressive and I'll remember to take you
3:22
with me everywhere I go. I love it. So,
3:26
>> we did, we did record it, so you have
3:28
it. It's good for you. You know, you
3:30
could you could bring it in. Maybe we
3:31
could use it as like a, you know, a hype
3:33
person getting the crowd pumped up when
3:35
you go in. Um,
3:37
>> I got to tell you again, the alignment
3:39
is amazing. In my head, I'm thinking the
3:41
high person and you said it. So, yes.
3:45
>> All right. So, hey, so before we before
3:47
we get into the work, like how are you
3:48
uh how are you really doing right now?
3:51
>> You know what? I'm doing great. It's uh
3:54
I mean, it's it's a great time to be in
3:57
leadership these days. It's a great time
3:59
to be alive and I am just really
4:04
thankful and grateful
4:06
>> for all of the things that have happened
4:10
before that have made me the person that
4:11
I am today. I walk around with joy and
4:15
purpose and you asking me this question
4:18
lets me know that it's important really
4:21
to lean on that because I think it's
4:23
very it's very interesting as you talked
4:26
about all of the different things that
4:28
happen um in leadership especially in
4:31
the role that I am currently uh and the
4:33
role that I've really held in the last
4:35
30 years in healthcare supply chain is
4:38
an area that is always fraught with
4:40
pressure
4:41
>> and So, I'm doing well. Thank you so
4:45
much.
4:45
>> That's good.
4:46
>> All right. So, you mentioned about sort
4:48
of your your origin story, your
4:49
background. What did uh what did the
4:51
young regime think success looked like?
4:56
>> Well, the young regime who grew up in
5:00
Haiti, so that's where I'm from and
5:03
that's where I did um you know, my
5:05
studies all the way through the
5:06
equivalent of um high school. Young
5:09
Reine was driven from as long as I can
5:13
remember. Um, I was the kid who always
5:18
stayed in her room, stayed back to study
5:21
when other friends and other kids were
5:23
playing outside. Um, I wouldn't go play
5:27
until I knew that I had taken care of
5:29
whatever it is that I was I had taken
5:31
care of. I was that kid who at about
5:35
eight or nine years old during summer
5:37
breaks um asked my mom to buy me a big
5:42
white board. At the time they were green
5:43
boards. I don't know if you remember
5:45
those, right? Green.
5:47
>> I remember the green chalk boards.
5:48
>> Yeah, the green chalk boards. Yeah. and
5:52
um invited some of my uh friends over
5:55
and we basically stayed on top of our
5:58
studies and I was leading math school
6:01
and I was reading leading grammar school
6:03
in my house. So Reene was very driven. I
6:07
was that nerd very driven and it
6:09
translates today as well. But growing
6:12
up, I always thought I was going to be a
6:17
doctor. Very specifically a
6:20
pediatrician.
6:22
>> Pediatrician is what I've always said.
6:24
And I'll tell you one of the reasons why
6:26
is because growing up my dad always I I
6:31
used to hear my dad talk about the fact
6:33
that you know being in in healthcare,
6:36
being in medicine, being a doctor was
6:40
something very noble and that he would
6:43
be honored for any one of his children,
6:46
you know, to be in that profession. And
6:49
so I bookmarked that and in my mind I
6:52
said, "Okay, well I'm gonna be the one
6:54
who's going to be the doctor and I'm
6:56
gonna be the one who's going to go into
6:58
healthcare because I was a daddy's girl,
7:01
you know, all the way through. So
7:03
growing up, I wanted to be a
7:04
pediatrician and I was convinced. So
7:07
anything science, anything especially
7:10
around the human anatomy and all of that
7:14
I was fascinated with. I watched, I
7:17
think, every show that had anything to
7:21
do with, you know, medical innovations
7:25
and medical stuff, clinical stuff, even
7:28
all the way down to some fairly gory
7:31
things because I figured that if I'm
7:33
going to be a doctor, I need to be I
7:35
need to be ready for that.
7:37
>> You got to be comfortable in those
7:38
situations.
7:38
>> Yes. I have to be comfortable. And so I
7:41
probably knew things about the human
7:44
anatomy at that time that most people or
7:47
most kids my age didn't know because I
7:49
was focused.
7:50
>> I was laser focused on being a doctor
7:54
and becoming a pediatrician. And then
7:58
>> when it was time for me to um to to
8:02
graduate the equivalent of because it's
8:04
the European French system, so it's the
8:07
balorate. So the equivalent of that last
8:10
year, which would be my senior year,
8:13
then there were lots of unrest that
8:15
really were kicking up in Haiti. And
8:19
really going into the university was not
8:22
very assured. And for me being that
8:24
nerd, I could not fathom not being able
8:27
to go to school because of whatever
8:29
unrest was going on. So I convinced my
8:32
parents to leave Haiti and to go
8:34
elsewhere. So I ended up in in uh in
8:38
Puerto Rico. So in my mind though, not
8:42
having I guess educated myself enough, I
8:45
thought that in order to become a
8:48
doctor, I had to have all of my funding
8:52
available at once and that I needed to
8:55
be ready right away. And so I also did
8:58
not want to be a financial burden on my
9:00
parents, right? So, I said to myself,
9:04
well, it doesn't look like I'm going to
9:06
be able to pay for med school, but the
9:10
next best thing, which is that nerdy
9:14
math, all math science person, that
9:16
maybe I can go and I can be an engineer.
9:19
>> Okay.
9:20
>> So, I decided that I was going to become
9:22
an engineer. Not necessarily letting go
9:25
of that dream, but in my mind, I said,
9:27
"Okay, let me at least be an engineer
9:29
and then we'll figure it out.
9:32
So, so when you were younger though, did
9:33
you did you like imagine yourself
9:36
leading or did leadership kind of just
9:39
like find you?
9:41
>> No, I I definitely knew I was going to
9:45
be a leader. I saw myself leading and
9:49
everybody around me said the same thing
9:50
as well. I I told you I I'm I took the
9:54
initiative and told my mom to buy me a
9:56
green chalkboard, the biggest that she
9:58
could find. and she installed it and
10:00
then I held classes in my home during
10:04
summer break just to make sure that we
10:07
kept our minds fresh and going into the
10:09
next year. I was the math teacher and
10:12
then in school throughout my years in
10:14
high school whenever teachers came
10:17
especially math and sciences I was
10:19
especially gifted in those um teachers
10:22
would come and they would sit in the
10:24
back and say regime you have the class
10:25
today um you're going to teach today so
10:29
I've been put in positions where because
10:32
of the person that I am because of how
10:35
focused I've always been
10:38
I've been afforded the opportunity to
10:41
lead in instances where now that I think
10:44
back of it, it's like, wow, how did this
10:46
happen?
10:46
>> Yeah.
10:47
>> Like during school when we had to do the
10:51
pledge of allegiance and it had to be
10:53
over the mic and then we had to um you
10:57
know sing for the anthem every morning
10:59
and I was picked as the person who was
11:02
the voice. So, I would go into the
11:04
director's office and I was the voice,
11:06
you know, like talking about, you know,
11:09
pledging the allegiance and singing the
11:11
the the hymn when I was when I was in
11:15
any audience and they needed a speaker.
11:17
>> I was the one chosen. So, I've been in
11:20
that role
11:22
>> and I always knew that I would continue
11:24
to be in that role because I loved being
11:26
in that role.
11:27
>> Did you did you feel pressure early on,
11:29
too? And what did you do with that
11:31
pressure or how did you like get through
11:34
it?
11:35
>> The pressure definitely, but I think it
11:37
was more self pressure.
11:40
>> Pressure to to always be on point.
11:43
Pressure to always be, you know, as
11:47
elevated as possible, as polished as
11:49
possible. Um, pressure to just, you
11:53
know, connect. pressure to make sure
11:56
that you know I'm resonating and that
11:59
when I'm walking away or whatever
12:01
interaction that I'm having that it's a
12:04
meaningful interaction. So it was really
12:07
more self pressure than anything but
12:10
that pressure was also my motivation.
12:14
>> Okay. And and then when you kind of got
12:16
through that initial early stage in your
12:17
life and your career and you got into
12:19
your professional kind of career into
12:20
that that ladder who I guess what
12:24
leaders I mean who who believed in you
12:26
before you had like you know proof right
12:29
like like a track record like who saw
12:31
that in you? Um maybe you can name them
12:34
uh if you want just kind of give them a
12:36
shout out.
12:36
>> Yeah absolutely. So, so the the the rest
12:40
of that story is that when I went
12:43
through I I became an engineer, went to
12:47
the University of Florida, did my
12:48
studies in industrial and systems
12:50
engineering, started working as an
12:53
engineer, you know, in corrugated plants
12:55
and thought to myself, what am I doing
12:57
here? And then fortuitously, and you
13:01
know how I feel about that, God had a
13:05
friend call me and said to me,
13:09
>> I am a fellow at one of the largest
13:13
hospitals in New York at the current
13:15
time and they are looking and I heard
13:16
them say they're looking for somebody
13:18
with engineering background. I know
13:20
you've always said you wanted to be in
13:22
healthcare. Perhaps it's an opportunity
13:25
for you. I just wanted to let you know.
13:27
I just thought to myself, "Wow,
13:30
I called." The rest was history. So, I
13:33
found myself in New York
13:36
at a hospital,
13:39
the closest that I was ever to that
13:42
dream, that little girl who wanted to be
13:43
a pediatrician, but not yet a
13:46
pediatrician.
13:47
But in a moment of clarity, I realized
13:50
that making a difference in those
13:52
people's lives that I've been studying
13:54
for the past, you know, 18, 19, 20
13:57
years, I've been doing it in a way where
14:01
now my role can still allow me to make a
14:04
difference their lives.
14:06
>> So when I entered this was a completely
14:09
foreign world to me.
14:11
>> Yeah. and trying to navigate through. I
14:15
found in one of the leaders who
14:19
interestingly enough became my employee
14:22
later in life was just like amazing, you
14:26
know, how it went around.
14:28
>> Wow. Full circle moment there. So
14:30
>> circle moment,
14:31
>> right? So you so you get in there and
14:34
you start to realize that you know what,
14:36
I'm going to be able to serve those that
14:38
I wanted to be just like. So, I get to
14:41
impact them because they're now in
14:43
essence um in they're your customers,
14:47
right? Those physicians, they're the
14:48
clinicians, they're your customers. You
14:50
serve them internally. They're your
14:51
internal customer. And and now, uh as
14:56
you start to grow and scale, do you have
14:58
a level of interaction with them on a
15:00
day-to-day basis, what are those
15:02
relationships like? What is that what is
15:04
that dynamic like for you? So, so again,
15:09
remember that's the little girl that's
15:11
been curious, that's been thrown in a
15:13
lot of, you know, a lot of situations
15:16
where she's fearless and she she just
15:19
thinks that the world is her oysters.
15:21
Actually, that's what my dad used to
15:23
tell me, my dad and my mom, that you
15:26
know what? Um, never let anybody define
15:30
what next is for you and never let
15:32
somebody define where that ceiling is
15:35
until you've reached that ceiling. So,
15:37
basically, the sky's is the limit. Both
15:39
my parents told me that. So I walked
15:42
into a world that was foreign to me but
15:44
realizing at that moment that I could
15:46
still make an impact in those people's
15:48
lives that I have been passionately you
15:51
know preparing for. So I just found
15:54
myself entering I just walked in into
15:57
the CEO's office one day
16:00
this person walking in a CEO's office. I
16:04
just said do you have a minute? Um and I
16:08
I never forgot. I'm I'm I'm reliving a
16:10
moment now. The folks in that office cuz
16:13
it's an office suite like it always is
16:15
walking in and just saying, "Hi, I need
16:18
to see the CEO."
16:21
And so when I enter finally, I think he
16:24
was amused. And so he said, "Sure, come
16:27
in. How can I help you, young lady?"
16:29
And so I I said who I was and I said
16:31
that I was very new in the organization
16:33
but that that I didn't know anything in
16:35
healthcare because you know I I went did
16:38
my studies and became an engineer but
16:40
I'm I'm really I I've always loved
16:42
healthcare and I want to know what I
16:44
need to do to be in your chair one day.
16:47
That's what I told him.
16:48
>> Let's go.
16:51
>> Let's go. So I he was just absolutely
16:56
tickled and said wow. So, who do you
16:59
work with? Who do you work for here?
17:01
Where did you come in? And so, so he
17:03
said, you know what?
17:04
>> He probably more impressed like, how the
17:05
hell did you get into my office?
17:07
>> I'm telling you, people who had been
17:09
there for however many years when I told
17:11
him the HOW DID YOU EVEN GET THERE? I
17:14
just walked and I'm like, you know what?
17:16
And since it's it's been my model,
17:18
what's the worst that can happen? They
17:20
say, "No, sorry, you can't see him.
17:22
Sorry, you can't be here. Sorry, you
17:24
have to have an appointment." But what
17:26
if there's a chance that they say, "You
17:28
know what? He has 20 minutes and is he
17:32
available?" Sure. Do you want to talk to
17:34
her? Yeah. And that's what happens. So
17:37
that happened and then my leader at the
17:40
time, Dave Tommpkins,
17:42
is the person who really encouraged me.
17:46
He was an incredibly
17:48
kind and supportive individual. Again,
17:52
the way I'm framing this, this person
17:54
who comes in doesn't know anything about
17:56
healthcare, walking into CEO's office,
17:59
asking questions that nobody dares to
18:01
ask just because I felt like I was bold
18:04
and brave. But just because for me, in
18:07
order to be that best self, that best
18:10
person that's going to ultimately serve
18:12
those people that I was passionately
18:15
looking at, I needed to know. And so in
18:18
order to know, in order to learn, you
18:20
have to go to the people who know who
18:22
can tell you what to do. So that to me
18:25
was my compass. And Dave was an
18:28
incredibly amazing leader whom I never,
18:33
you know, who who I never forgot
18:36
>> and I always credited for really
18:40
grounding me and getting me to become
18:44
the leader that I am today. And then
18:48
when I fast forward just few years later
18:52
um when I went back to New York uh I
18:56
became part of an organization that
18:59
acquired the hospital where Dave was the
19:02
leader and by by that virtue I became
19:07
his leader.
19:09
>> Wow. And it was an incredibly
19:13
emotional and humble moment for me. And
19:17
I credit him every single time that I
19:21
had an opportunity at meetings
19:23
regardless of the fact that I was his
19:26
leader. I never saw it that way because
19:30
I always saw him as that person who was
19:34
incredibly kind to me at the beginning
19:36
of my career, who was just this open
19:40
person who allowed me to ask all kinds
19:43
of crazy questions into his office. Now
19:46
Dave was not the CEO, he was the leader
19:48
of supply chain. But as I progressed
19:51
into it and then I started to really go
19:54
in and ask questions, wanted to know
19:56
things, wanted to wanted to ask for
19:58
more, you know, hey, all right, I'm
19:59
doing this. I'm bored now. I learned
20:02
this already. Can we do something else?
20:04
You know, can you help?
20:05
>> It's kind of like a game. It's like a
20:06
game. You kind of continue to like, hey,
20:08
I beat this level. Like, what else you
20:10
got for me?
20:11
>> That's actually a very good way of
20:13
saying it because that's that's exactly
20:15
it. And so it's like, okay, I've beat
20:17
this level and I've played it multiple
20:19
times already. I feel like I already
20:21
know where that that, you know, the bad
20:23
guy is gonna jump in. I already have my
20:25
move ready.
20:27
>> So what else can we do? And so that's
20:29
how with somebody like Dave, I was able
20:32
to start to not only ground myself
20:35
really learn because then again, like I
20:37
said, I made the decision if I'm not
20:39
going to be a pediatrician slash a
20:42
doctor, then I'm going to be the best
20:45
darn healthc care leader who can still
20:48
make an impact in people's lives.
20:51
>> And so I'm going to embrace it all. I'm
20:53
going to learn. I'm going to ask
20:55
questions. I don't care. I'm going to
20:56
walk into rooms and I'm going to be
20:59
charming. They're not going to be able
21:01
to resist me and I'm going to get
21:03
answers.
21:06
>> So, look, clearly you don't know how to
21:08
take no for an answer, which is great.
21:11
What um
21:13
trying to be on that road to being a
21:15
great healthcare leader, what part of
21:19
leadership um like drains you the most?
21:25
Um the part of leadership that I feel
21:29
drains me the most is is you know having
21:33
to deal with people whose to me whose
21:38
alignment are not are not correct you
21:40
know not only with themselves or
21:42
organizations because I'm a people
21:44
person
21:45
>> I lead through the lens of humanity
21:49
right I believe that
21:52
>> without that whole yourself. You can't
21:54
be your best.
21:56
>> However, there are individuals that I've
21:59
encountered during my career who almost
22:04
have been like career
22:07
um
22:09
how do you call these folks? It's almost
22:11
like they're they're they're obstacles,
22:14
right? And so they made their careers
22:17
being obstacles but not in a way that
22:21
is, you know, like curious. I'm just
22:23
trying to understand. So that's why
22:24
maybe I'm in the way. But people who
22:26
have been maliciously, you know,
22:29
obstacles and who have made it hard for
22:32
people and who have not been kind, that
22:34
to me drains me because
22:37
>> you don't walk into a place where you
22:40
spend 8, nine, 10 hours of your day
22:44
and purposely try to like, you know,
22:47
poison the environment. To me, that was
22:50
always very hard trying to figure out
22:52
how do we either gain these people back
22:55
or how to get these people to understand
22:57
that perhaps this is not the thing for
22:59
you because obviously it's not for
23:01
everyone because health care is hard.
23:04
>> Health care, regardless of where you
23:06
are, when you work in health care, it's
23:09
it's it's not easy. It's not just that
23:11
kind of thing.
23:13
>> It's hard because it's human, right?
23:16
Yeah,
23:16
>> because what about fitness?
23:20
>> And so when you're talking about
23:22
people draining ones that are
23:25
misaligned,
23:27
trying to weed those bad apples out of
23:29
an organization because I do believe
23:31
they can they can kill the spirit of an
23:33
organization. Um, and leadership, you
23:35
know, people love talking about the
23:36
highlight reels just like, hey,
23:38
leadership, look how great this is. But
23:39
what is what is like a bad
23:42
leadership day look like for you? you
23:45
know, someone that's in your seat.
23:47
What's like a rough day look like?
23:50
>> I mean, I think for me a rough day is a
23:53
day where well, I mean, we're going to
23:55
start with the obvious, where it feels
23:57
like nothing is working, right? And by
23:59
that I mean you may start the day with
24:03
um something like a disruption a
24:05
disruption that is very sensitive um to
24:09
the operation because you know that wait
24:11
a minute let's just use something like
24:13
you know oxygen tanks for example we
24:15
know that in order to sustain life
24:17
especially in a lot in certain cases you
24:19
need to have oxygen right I'm using that
24:22
example
24:23
>> so you walk into a situation where you
24:25
start your day where there's an issue
24:27
with that and so that almost like starts
24:30
to get you, oh my goodness, wow, I need
24:33
to figure out how we find our way to
24:36
really resolving this issue. And then
24:38
usually you have that and what what
24:42
>> does that get escalated to you right
24:44
away? Because presumably there's others
24:46
on your team like when does that get
24:47
escalated to you? Like how bad does it
24:49
have to get before it comes to you?
24:51
Well, something like this in the example
24:53
that I gave um it would it would I would
24:56
be involved in this almost right away
24:58
because the implications are far and
25:00
wide. But you're absolutely correct that
25:02
there are people on the team who are
25:05
absolutely the most appropriate and very
25:09
diligent in taking care of that. But
25:11
something like that because of what it
25:13
carries there there's definitely a
25:16
likelihood that they're going to involve
25:18
me right away. Not only because of that,
25:20
but because I've always positioned
25:22
myself as well as the person that brings
25:24
the outside in. I'm the person who
25:26
bought a lot of the outside
25:28
relationships, a lot of those
25:29
conversations with vendors. So perhaps
25:32
it's in a bid to say, "Hey, Reene, we
25:34
may have an issue." And then maybe then
25:37
I can activate my relationship either
25:39
with an alternative, you know, vendor by
25:43
saying, "Hey, you know what? I know we
25:45
don't have because it's happened. I know
25:47
we don't have a relationship with you
25:48
but um I'm wondering if you can help me
25:51
and just based on the fact that you have
25:53
a relationship a long-standing
25:54
relationship with that person or that
25:56
organization sometimes it works right
25:59
>> so for me that that can start a day and
26:02
then when you also have again it always
26:04
goes around the people who are obstacles
26:07
and for me there are people not only on
26:09
your team but there are people around
26:10
the organization that become obstacles
26:12
as well
26:13
>> and so that to me is draining
26:16
Because especially in the frame that I'm
26:19
using right now, there's a sense of, you
26:22
know, there's a sense of urgency that
26:25
you want to move from A to B to C so
26:27
that you can really get to a place where
26:30
you're sure that the issue is going to
26:31
be taken care of because again, the
26:34
center of everything that I do,
26:36
>> I want to make sure that my patients,
26:38
and I call them my patients because
26:40
that's what really connects me to
26:41
purpose. they're my patient.
26:43
>> I want to make sure that my patients are
26:45
okay. I want to make sure that my
26:47
physicians, my nurses, my clinical
26:50
folks, whoever they are, have what they
26:51
need in order to take care of that
26:54
patient. So, it's that balance of
26:59
resiliency
27:00
without martyrdom because a lot of time
27:04
as well you have the resiliency and it
27:08
means absorbing more pressure, right? M
27:11
>> so you start absorbing that pressure and
27:14
it's trying to figure out how you build
27:17
the systems and the people and the
27:20
processes around that don't just require
27:23
the heroics to function. And so in that
27:26
you're trying to maneuver through
27:29
something like that, trying to maneuver
27:31
through the levels, the many levels of
27:34
obstacles that usually come your way.
27:37
whether it's from somebody who doesn't
27:38
understand or somebody who just wants to
27:41
be, you know, an obstructionist. And
27:43
then usually, you know, as as I'm
27:46
looking at a scenario like that,
27:48
something like this would absolutely
27:50
drain me and really really get me almost
27:55
depleted by the end of the day where I
27:57
would have to go and recharge myself.
28:00
you know, as you start to kind of as you
28:02
climb the organization, right? And you
28:03
get to bigger seats, bigger chairs, more
28:05
responsibility, more pressure, more
28:07
expectations, naturally, um, when you're
28:11
when you're kind and you're generous,
28:12
you like to say yes to things. But
28:14
inadvertently, when you say yes to too
28:16
many things, you end up saying no to
28:18
some very important things. What do you
28:20
say no to now that you used to say yes
28:25
to?
28:26
>> Wow. It's as if you know me because um I
28:31
I have a hard time saying no.
28:35
Um
28:35
>> yeah, I'm I'm a recovering people
28:37
pleaser. You know, I got it. I got you.
28:39
>> Yeah. The people pleaser part of me is
28:42
is definitely one thing, but also the
28:45
notion that in my head, you know what? I
28:48
have to just take care of it. I just
28:50
have to get it get it over with. Take
28:52
care of it and do it. or somebody asks
28:55
me something, you just want to be that
28:57
person who's always, you know, seen as
29:00
being flexible, colleial, you know, all
29:04
of those things, friendly and all of
29:06
that. But inevitably, what happens is
29:08
really it depletes you as well, right?
29:11
That is really not leadership. And I
29:13
don't know if you had the opportunity to
29:14
see the last article that I published on
29:17
LinkedIn. I actually talked about that
29:19
when I talked about things that I'm
29:21
going to let go this year. And this is
29:23
one of them, right, that I've been
29:25
intentionally working through. You know,
29:28
learning to say no when it's
29:30
appropriate. You know, there are things
29:32
that especially things that require a
29:34
lot of you and a lot of your energy. You
29:37
know, I'm more into that energy
29:39
protection season, right? Let's protect
29:42
my energy so that I can deploy it where
29:45
it's really the most needed and the most
29:48
necessary. So, for example, you know,
29:51
people get involved in their little, I
29:53
don't know, squables and stuff and I
29:56
don't want to get involved into it. Um,
29:58
you know, do you want to go to this
30:01
conference and this conference and that
30:02
conference and this conference? I can't
30:04
go to five conferences at the same time.
30:07
I can't I can't split myself in five.
30:09
>> That's right. That's right. in the past,
30:11
you know, the need and the desire to not
30:14
only be on the forefront of what's going
30:16
on, but be seen as this person who's,
30:19
you know, always there, always, you
30:21
know, again, again, that collegial
30:23
person. It's like, wait a minute, then
30:25
I'm going from conference to conference.
30:28
I'm splitting myself in five. I come
30:30
back, I'm just exhausted. Yeah.
30:33
>> And I still have 50 things that I have
30:36
to take care of. And so it's just like
30:39
you just have to learn even when people
30:41
ask you to participate, people ask you
30:43
to do I mean I want to say yes and so I
30:47
am still in the recovery phases. I can't
30:49
quite say that I am a recovering people
30:52
pleaser like you are
30:54
>> but I have definitely
30:56
>> what is the what is the matrix? What is
30:58
the matrix that like people go through
31:00
in order for you to say decisive yes or
31:03
hey it's a no because xyz. Do you have
31:06
like a framework that you use? I'm just
31:08
thinking about this for other rising
31:10
leaders. What are some things that they
31:12
can kind of use, incorporate, implement
31:13
into their day-to-days? So, if they're
31:16
grappling with saying no, you know,
31:17
somebody who's going through it, maybe
31:19
share that.
31:20
>> Yeah. I mean, for me, it's like you
31:21
start asking yourself this question. How
31:24
is this, you know, meeting the purpose
31:26
that I've set for myself, right? The
31:28
goal that I've set for myself, whatever
31:30
that goal is. And so, you know, does
31:33
this really fulfill the mission?
31:37
And if the answer is kind of like, well,
31:39
not really, then perhaps it's a pass,
31:42
right? Even if you put it in a parking
31:44
lot, but it's not a yes, right? And for
31:48
me at least, I know that once I move it
31:51
to the parking lot, it's likely going to
31:53
be a no because I would have already
31:55
said yes,
31:56
>> right? And so you have to force yourself
31:58
to ask the question, how is this
32:02
fulfilling my purpose, the purpose of
32:04
the organization? Um what I've set out
32:06
for myself as a as a goal and you know
32:10
all of those questions you have to like
32:12
be real with yourself. And of course
32:14
you're asking yourself that question. So
32:16
you must be real to yourself as well
32:18
because if not then that's another
32:20
issue, right? And so you once you really
32:25
think about this and say, well, does
32:26
this really fulfill? Is this necessary?
32:29
And the answer is not a a clear
32:30
resounding yes,
32:32
>> then it's likely going to be a no.
32:35
>> And so you have to learn to just like,
32:38
you know, it's not it's not quantity,
32:40
it's quality,
32:42
>> right? Absolutely. Because, you know,
32:44
look, there's everyone that's just vying
32:45
for your time. They
32:46
>> see a title, they v they v for your
32:48
time.
32:49
>> Yeah. I I I'm curious as you as you
32:52
started to kind of throughout your
32:53
career presumably there's been a lot of
32:56
um I'll call them you know tours of duty
33:00
and throughout some of those tours of
33:01
duty there's been maybe some memorable
33:04
mistakes slash lessons which I mean is
33:08
there a story that you can share maybe a
33:09
mistake that um maybe taught you the
33:12
most uh maybe took you the longest to
33:15
even forgive yourself if it did happen.
33:20
Um
33:23
when I think about
33:26
stories where I feel like I just want to
33:29
bury my head, you know, a lot of them
33:33
are stories around making decisions
33:37
without necessarily fully involving all
33:40
stakeholders
33:42
>> and then finding yourself in a situation
33:44
where it's like, "Oh my goodness, how
33:46
could I have gotten that far and not
33:48
thought this through?" Right. Almost
33:51
like a little bit of the version of egg
33:53
on your face
33:54
>> when even though it's coming with good
33:57
intention but having done some things
34:00
and making decisions like far along
34:04
without involving all the right folks
34:08
and then finding those people being very
34:11
upset or uh very disappointed
34:15
in the fact that some decisions have
34:17
been made or that we at the point of a
34:20
decision without having had their input.
34:23
And again, I talk about being an empath,
34:25
that person in me that wants to absorb,
34:28
you know, people's emotions and stuff,
34:31
you know, that almost immediately
34:34
um, you know, affects me because I don't
34:37
like I don't like to to to be in a
34:40
position where I feel like I've
34:41
disappointed people
34:43
>> um, intentionally or unintentionally.
34:47
And so I take that very hard and I take
34:50
it to heart.
34:52
>> But I've learned that obviously, you
34:55
know, there's no perfection. No one is
34:57
perfect.
34:58
>> And I've learned that when you are your
35:01
authentic self, even in those moments,
35:04
and you acknowledge the faults, you
35:07
acknowledge the gaps, you acknowledge
35:09
what could have been done a little bit
35:11
differently.
35:12
Um I I find that you know it goes a long
35:16
way and it really helps cure
35:19
>> the ills that you know maybe one has
35:22
created like if I've I've created
35:24
something then I know that I need to
35:26
like be brave
35:29
>> and go and admit to whatever it is and
35:32
just say listen I'm really sorry that it
35:35
got to that point but just know that it
35:36
wasn't my intention but in that case
35:38
intention is not really what matters
35:42
And so I've had a few of those, but then
35:45
I also think about the other side of it
35:48
where I've been in situations where I
35:52
felt um miserable because being in a
35:58
situation where
36:01
um leaders were not very respectful
36:08
>> openly in rooms and in environments
36:11
where the lack of respect for people,
36:14
not necessarily me, but the lack of
36:17
respect general for people
36:20
um the some of the crassness of the
36:23
comments made.
36:25
>> Yeah. I found myself really thinking and
36:29
projecting myself in this environment
36:31
saying if I can be in this environment
36:34
and if even if I look like I'm okay in
36:36
an environment like this I think it also
36:40
says that I agree with that and
36:42
internally that really really really
36:44
really
36:47
>> um almost like made me ill.
36:49
>> Yeah. It's not what you uh I mean
36:51
leadership culture it's not what you say
36:52
it's what you tolerate. you know,
36:54
somebody's behaving that way and it's
36:55
like you're not saying anything about
36:57
it. It's you're just as just as guilty
37:00
in that sense. Um, that's that's
37:03
interesting to sort of hear that. You
37:05
know, there's a
37:08
there's a few things that you mentioned
37:09
in in in an earlier conversation off
37:11
camera around just kind of managing by
37:14
walking around and kind of getting a
37:15
pulse on things. How important do you
37:17
think that is from a visibility
37:19
standpoint that your team sees you out
37:22
there with them where you're conversing
37:24
with them? Can you maybe share a little
37:27
bit more about that? And do you feel
37:29
like as you've risen through the ranks,
37:32
is that sort of been a staple that has
37:34
been throughout your sort of leadership
37:37
mantra
37:38
>> as a leader? Um what gives me the most
37:42
joy and what gives me the most um
37:45
fulfillment is to be able to spend time
37:49
with the folks that are part of my team
37:51
but specifically so the people who are
37:55
considered entry level um you know in
37:58
the organization the people that are
38:00
most often unseen
38:03
>> where I have had the most fulfilling
38:05
time as a leader is when I've walked a
38:09
mile or through in their shoes literally
38:13
where I have gone into an O and dawned
38:18
you know the um the proper PPEs to enter
38:22
into the O sitting on the floor counting
38:25
the widgets inventorying with them and
38:29
helping them to put away whatever the
38:31
stock is at the moment and asking them
38:35
you know questions about things that
38:37
they see that could be done differently
38:38
because frankly Let's not kid ourselves.
38:41
You know, we sit in the boardrooms or we
38:43
sit in those um beautiful conference
38:45
rooms in the corporate offices and we're
38:48
coming up with a lot of ideas about what
38:50
we need to do differently, how we need
38:52
to improve XYZ, how we need to optimize
38:55
XYZ, but often we don't think to ask the
38:58
people who are really part of it. And
39:01
that's where for me the difference to
39:03
expertise is something that I really say
39:06
a lot
39:07
>> and I've said it too many times to be
39:10
counted that the difference to expertise
39:13
is something that we must abide by even
39:16
as leaders because my title
39:18
>> does not equal expertise. My title is
39:22
just that. But if I'm looking at
39:24
optimizing the operations on the loading
39:27
dock, I cannot possibly do it without
39:29
making sure that the expert
39:32
>> on that loading dock is part of that
39:34
conversation. In that conversation, in
39:37
that moment, in that realm, they are the
39:40
expert. And often leaders forget that
39:44
expertise is not title.
39:48
>> That's that's probably very quotable.
39:50
Expertise is not title. That's a That's
39:53
a That's a writer downer.
39:56
>> I'm gonna remember that one.
40:00
>> Yeah. Expertise in that title. I'm
40:02
databasing that for sure.
40:04
>> Yeah. So, it's really important. It's
40:07
important that we take the time to go
40:09
and talk to the folks. Um, and I'm
40:12
saying that it makes the most difference
40:14
when you're talking to the people who
40:17
are often unseen within the
40:19
organization.
40:20
>> Right? I'm not talking to the people who
40:22
are, let's say, even direct reports.
40:24
Those are still people who are
40:26
considered senior leaders in the
40:27
organization. You know, they have a
40:30
position of privilege in the
40:31
organization. We're not talking about
40:32
that. We're talking about that person
40:35
who is trying to figure out, okay, what
40:37
is my purpose today? Why am I here on
40:40
this loading dock? This is now the
40:42
second or third truck in the last 30
40:44
minutes that has come in here and I'm
40:47
just by myself unloading all these boxes
40:50
and trying to figure out exactly what to
40:52
do. Where's my purpose? So, it's really
40:55
important to keep that purpose and the
40:58
thing the other thing that I say a lot
41:00
especially when I go and talk to those
41:01
folks that are on the loading dock that
41:04
are in that you know inventory room
41:06
getting them to understand that it's not
41:08
just a box. And I just wrote an article
41:11
about that and I bet I'm going to be
41:12
publishing too.
41:14
>> It's not just a box because inside that
41:16
box is a life-saving device, right?
41:19
Until you connect to that purpose and
41:22
stop seeing it as just a box that is
41:25
filling up your loading dot that is
41:27
driving you crazy because you're
41:29
surrounded by boxes. But when you
41:32
realize that if you had X-ray vision and
41:35
you could see that this box had a
41:38
pacemaker inside of it.
41:40
>> Right.
41:41
>> Right. A pacemaker that a grandmother
41:45
is being prepped for in surgery that is
41:48
going to allow her to spend time with
41:51
her first grandbaby.
41:54
That
41:55
is purpose.
41:57
>> That's right. That's right.
41:59
I I love this. Um, it's not just a box,
42:03
by the way. That's probably a book
42:05
title. Um, so just you said it here, so
42:08
you own that. You talk to the number.
42:11
>> The article came out and, you know, I'm
42:14
trademarking that, too.
42:15
>> Listen, we're gonna we're we're putting
42:17
all those um in the description of this
42:20
so people can read them and have have
42:22
access to those to those assets and
42:24
those articles.
42:26
I'm I'm because you're so collaborative
42:28
in nature when you likely you probably
42:30
talked to a lot of other health system
42:32
leaders throughout the country. What's
42:33
like one thing that you wish like other
42:37
health systems leaders talked about more
42:40
like openly?
42:44
>> Uh
42:46
I mean I think are you saying generally
42:48
or around the role that I have? It can
42:52
be any way that you want to take it.
42:54
Your episode.
42:57
>> Well, no. I I just think that
43:00
I I'm gonna I'm gonna go around culture
43:03
because
43:04
>> yeah,
43:04
>> where I found myself
43:08
um feeling a little bit misaligned
43:10
sometimes is
43:13
around culture of organizations
43:16
and
43:18
not necessarily completely either being
43:21
fully realized or fully aligned.
43:24
And I would I would tell leaders
43:29
that if you're going to go on a limb and
43:34
make it a big to-do about certain
43:39
>> leadership principles or certain
43:41
cultural qualities that you want the
43:44
organization to aspire to, you really
43:47
have to go all in. You got to go all in
43:49
and it can't just be surface level,
43:52
right? Mhm.
43:53
>> So I wish that because it's the thing
43:56
that they say all the time, culture, you
43:59
know, eat strategy for breakfast every
44:01
day.
44:01
>> Yeah. Yeah. It is so true because all
44:04
the things that we've been talking about
44:06
whether it's this wonderful person
44:08
whether it's the wonderful you know um
44:10
things that we've done when you're
44:13
inside an ecosystem
44:15
where you also have cultural
44:18
misalignment and the culture of the
44:19
organization does not quite resonate I
44:22
think it creates you know you know
44:25
misalignments disengagements throughout
44:28
that permeates and that show themselves
44:31
up in different ways. And so would
44:34
really encourage leaders to think hard
44:38
and fast about how they are talking
44:42
about the culture and what they're doing
44:45
to really emulate those words that are
44:48
being said and the beautiful PowerPoint
44:50
slides that are usually presented.
44:53
>> Yeah.
44:54
Uh before we before we kind of go to
44:57
rap, I just want people to know like how
44:59
do they
45:01
how do they follow your work because
45:03
clearly you you know you present you go
45:05
all over the country, you do things, but
45:07
how do they follow you and the things
45:08
that you kind of stand for the
45:10
organization? Maybe maybe we just kind
45:13
of give you the the mic here for a
45:15
moment or so uh for you to just sort of
45:17
share that where people can hear more of
45:20
you. Well, thank you for that and this
45:24
is absolutely um the the time where I am
45:28
defining that but I would say uh you can
45:31
start with LinkedIn uh because I am
45:34
really truly um fully
45:38
uh expanding
45:40
uh the work and the activities that I
45:42
have on LinkedIn. This is where I've
45:43
been amplifying my voice you know more
45:46
and more in the past few months and I
45:48
intend to continue to do that. There are
45:50
a few other projects that I'm working on
45:53
right now that will also come out on
45:57
LinkedIn, you know, that I'll I'll talk
45:59
about on LinkedIn and, you know, I'll
46:02
reveal um at the right time. But I would
46:06
say LinkedIn is really the place where I
46:10
want to continue to build that brand and
46:13
continue to make sure that also, you
46:16
know, I talk about the word grounded.
46:17
you know, it's really important for me
46:19
to feel grounded.
46:21
>> So, this is a season of alignment for
46:23
me. And you know, I'm really trying to
46:27
use what I've learned. And that's both
46:30
successes and scars alike to really um
46:34
find my way to scale beyond just a
46:37
single entity and create what I consider
46:41
my full realized purpose.
46:45
um which is to to be um a beacon of
46:51
light, a beacon of optimism
46:54
and you know and also that innovative,
46:59
that bold leader who does not take no
47:02
for an answer, who does not know how to
47:05
say no, but who does not take no for an
47:07
answer. Right?
47:08
>> For me, when I hear no, I flip it around
47:10
and I say, you know what, it's on.
47:16
That's another third one. You got a
47:18
third one.
47:19
>> Hey, you're just you're you're on a roll
47:20
right now. So, it's like I don't even
47:22
want to just want to keep keep it going.
47:24
So, look, let's just say there's uh
47:27
you're talking to um your younger self,
47:31
you know, 20 plus years ago. Maybe maybe
47:34
it's a regime that doesn't have the type
47:36
of
47:38
the type of leadership inner inner game
47:41
that you had.
47:43
Maybe it's someone that's uh quietly
47:45
struggling with their their leadership
47:48
um and they're in an important role.
47:50
What do you say to them? What do you
47:52
want them to hear? I think that's
47:54
probably what we leave off with.
47:56
Well, I think it's important for them to
47:58
know that if they are already in a
48:01
position that is important that they
48:04
need to remember that being in that
48:06
position, they've b they've they've
48:09
gotten there because of whatever it is
48:12
that they've been able to do. And so,
48:14
you need to carry that confidence with
48:16
yourself in every conversation in any in
48:20
every room that you're walking in. I
48:22
mean this I'm thinking very specifically
48:25
um most specifically for women leaders
48:27
cuz women especially young women um
48:32
generally tend to look at themselves you
48:35
know in a room um in a role and not
48:38
necessarily feel very confident. I can
48:41
say that as a woman even though I don't
48:42
lead as a woman like I don't walk into a
48:46
room saying I'm a woman leader but
48:49
especially women that's right I'm a
48:51
leader remember that you are commending
48:56
your knowledge you're commending the
48:58
room you're commending the table that
49:00
you're on and you belong just like
49:02
anybody else because if you're already
49:05
in a place where you have the title just
49:07
based on what you've talked about and
49:09
you've already started ed to make some
49:11
inroads. Just remember to just dig in
49:14
and remember that you are part of this
49:17
conversation for a reason and that you
49:18
belong there as much as anybody else.
49:22
>> I love that. This has been um we're
49:25
probably going to have more episodes of
49:26
you coming on because it's just really
49:28
it's a lot of fun. But uh you know if
49:31
you're listening to this actually before
49:34
we wrap I want to say this leadership
49:36
doesn't just look like a moment on stage
49:39
or a highlight reel. It's like a lot of
49:41
quiet decisions. It's long days. It's um
49:44
you know choosing to do hard versus
49:47
doing easy. You know you don't nec
49:49
there's a difference between being nice
49:51
and being kind. And you can still have
49:53
really high standards and still be kind.
49:56
And I think what you shared today wasn't
49:58
necessarily what you shared. It was the
50:00
mannerisms in which how you shared it,
50:02
how you articulated it with stories and
50:04
it just grounded it. Quite frankly,
50:06
there was a lot of golden nuggets that
50:08
came from it. So I think it's it's if
50:11
there's a few takeaways from this, it's
50:13
like you don't you're not an expert just
50:15
because you have a title. I think that's
50:16
like huge. It's more than just what's in
50:19
the box, you know? That's another huge
50:21
one. And I honestly, Reene, I just thank
50:23
you for your cander. I knew that you
50:24
were going to be candid going into this,
50:26
but like it's just it was really nice
50:28
and for you to just show up and um with
50:30
a level of humility that uh that really
50:32
goes a long way. So, for those that have
50:35
been listening, if you're listening to
50:36
this and you found it extremely helpful,
50:38
please share it, like it, comment on it,
50:41
uh let us know what you felt was, you
50:43
know, something that stood out to you.
50:45
And if there is a topic that you want us
50:47
to explore or if there's a leader that
50:48
you want to come on to the show, you
50:50
know, um let us know. We do read the
50:52
comments. We want to make sure that we
50:54
continue to bring uh a number of
50:56
wonderful people onto the show that can
50:57
add a lot of value to the community
50:59
because it's not just about content.
51:01
That is about a community. So, thank you
51:03
for listening and uh keep building with
51:06
purpose, keep staying aligned and we'll
51:07
see you next time on the Advancing
51:09
Health Innovation Show. Thanks, Reene.
51:12
>> Thank you, Michael. This has been an
51:14
absolute pleasure and it was a point of
51:17
privilege to be able to um come on your
51:20
show as well. you know, having met you
51:23
not so long ago, but feeling absolute
51:25
alignment with you. Uh, and uh, I I
51:29
definitely enjoyed it and as you
51:31
mentioned, you know, those of you who
51:33
want to uh, connect with me, you can do
51:36
so on LinkedIn and I know I referenced a
51:38
couple of articles and we'll make sure
51:40
that you have uh, access to those as
51:43
well. And I'm here at your service,
51:46
right? Um, I don't have it all figured
51:48
out, but uh, you know, with the help
51:51
with people like Michael and others out
51:54
there, you know, we're building that
51:55
community. And again, it's a privilege
51:58
to be part of it. So, thank you so much.
52:00
>> You're so welcome.