Latest / Deep Tech Germany – AI, Robotics & Frontier Innovation by Startuprad.io™ / Biopharma Startups: Ningaloo, NanoStruct & Greenable

Transcript

Biopharma Startups: Ningaloo, NanoStruct & Greenable · Deep Tech Germany – AI, Robotics & Frontier Innovation by Startuprad.io™

• WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:07.920 Music. 00:00:07.762 --> 00:00:14.742 Your podcast and YouTube blog covering the German startup scene with news, 00:00:14.982 --> 00:00:17.642 interviews, and live events. 00:00:19.682 --> 00:00:23.882 Hello and welcome everybody. This is Joe from StartupRate.io, 00:00:24.022 --> 00:00:27.922 your startup podcast and YouTube blog from Germany. 00:00:27.922 --> 00:00:34.082 Today, I'm bringing you an episode that I've put together with four startup 00:00:34.082 --> 00:00:42.982 interviews that I did on site towards the end of November 2024 on the Deutsche Business Angel Talk, 00:00:43.302 --> 00:00:50.462 which is the biannual meeting of the German Business Angel Association, 00:00:50.482 --> 00:00:53.262 which is using the acronym BAND. 00:00:53.262 --> 00:00:59.002 And there, of course, was a startup exhibition, and we saw seven interesting 00:00:59.002 --> 00:01:02.962 startups in total that we could get to interview right on site. 00:01:02.962 --> 00:01:07.502 So that's why you may hear a little bit background noise. 00:01:07.502 --> 00:01:11.542 You may hear people talking and you may hear some wind from time to time. 00:01:11.542 --> 00:01:17.062 I hope you can understand that this is the price to pay when you really want 00:01:17.062 --> 00:01:21.022 to have some of the brightest minds coming in front of your microphone here 00:01:21.022 --> 00:01:23.882 on site instantly and do a little interview. 00:01:24.082 --> 00:01:30.142 On the other hand, all those interviews are pretty short and I really hope you enjoy it. 00:01:30.302 --> 00:01:35.282 As I said, it was towards the end of November 2024. The location was on site 00:01:35.282 --> 00:01:42.322 in the city of Mainz, and we have been attending the biannual Business Angel 00:01:42.322 --> 00:01:44.882 meeting taking place in the city. 00:01:46.472 --> 00:01:55.052 We do have quite a diverse group of different startups with a little bit tending 00:01:55.052 --> 00:01:56.912 towards biotech, of course, 00:01:57.552 --> 00:02:02.712 due to the city of Mainz being an emerging biotech hub. 00:02:02.872 --> 00:02:08.472 You may remember that we've already had a few interviews, plus the home of biotech. 00:02:09.232 --> 00:02:12.812 I'll leave you with this right now. 00:02:13.212 --> 00:02:18.352 As always, happy to have your feedback. Hello and welcome everybody, 00:02:18.632 --> 00:02:20.072 this is Joe from Celebrate.io. 00:02:20.592 --> 00:02:25.252 We welcome Ningaloo Biosystems in the person of? I'm Albert Njartlan, 00:02:25.792 --> 00:02:27.552 co-founder of Ningaloo Biosystems. 00:02:28.352 --> 00:02:32.652 Can you tell us a little bit what your company Ningaloo Biosystems actually does? 00:02:33.172 --> 00:02:39.012 Yeah, we revolutionized the way new drugs, the next generation for cancer therapy, 00:02:39.692 --> 00:02:44.252 the next generation of drugs for autoimmune diseases and genetic disorders will 00:02:44.252 --> 00:02:52.352 be made in the scalably and affordably for a large market that actually waits for these drugs to get. 00:02:54.172 --> 00:02:58.432 What kind of drugs are we talking about? We're mostly talking about the next 00:02:58.432 --> 00:03:03.032 generation of cancer therapeutics like antibody formats, 00:03:03.632 --> 00:03:08.212 so not just monoclonal antibodies that have already been very successful in 00:03:08.212 --> 00:03:13.232 the market already and with many saving a lot of lives already. 00:03:13.492 --> 00:03:18.612 The next generation of more complex drugs are now in the starting drugs to actually 00:03:18.612 --> 00:03:21.452 cure many of the more aggressive types of cancers. 00:03:21.872 --> 00:03:26.952 That's one example. The other example is gene therapeutics, which actually cannot just, 00:03:27.712 --> 00:03:37.392 cure genetic disorders that are found in the whole market or in the small niche of patients, 00:03:37.392 --> 00:03:44.752 sorry but also broad address broader topics like metabolic disease and the problem 00:03:44.752 --> 00:03:51.212 really is they are still essentially unaffordable one dose can cost in manufacturing 00:03:51.212 --> 00:03:53.492 hundred thousands of years, 00:03:54.112 --> 00:03:58.872 that needs to change and that's what you're working on that's what we are working 00:03:58.872 --> 00:04:05.452 on can Can you tell us just a tiny bit for a non-geeky audience how this works? 00:04:09.752 --> 00:04:13.872 Making these types of drugs, and with the first generation, like monoclonal 00:04:13.872 --> 00:04:17.832 antibodies, that already works very well, is a little bit like brewing beer. 00:04:18.232 --> 00:04:22.292 We essentially have a big pot where you put some nutrients in, 00:04:22.392 --> 00:04:25.412 you put cells in, and the cells actually produce what you want to have. 00:04:25.632 --> 00:04:30.452 In this case, it's not alcohol, it's the drug, actually, the biological drug that's made. 00:04:30.452 --> 00:04:33.512 The problem with that is that you 00:04:33.512 --> 00:04:39.032 essentially like doing the burn game to just put everything that their cells 00:04:39.032 --> 00:04:45.052 need into the bioreactor and essentially you wait for 14 days for the process 00:04:45.052 --> 00:04:50.692 to run without the opportunity to actually interfere or steer the process itself. 00:04:51.132 --> 00:04:52.612 That's what we want to change. 00:04:53.172 --> 00:04:58.452 We introduce a technology that in real time you can control the cells for the 00:04:58.452 --> 00:05:03.292 first time so you can actually send blue light into a bioreactor and switch 00:05:03.292 --> 00:05:06.312 on a gene in the production cell, switch it off again. 00:05:07.232 --> 00:05:10.652 You can use a red light to activate an enzyme, and so forth. 00:05:11.072 --> 00:05:15.972 So this is sort of a remote control for the production machines that are swimming in the bioreactor. 00:05:16.652 --> 00:05:21.592 That's, of course, now opening up a whole range of possibilities to control the process. 00:05:23.792 --> 00:05:28.392 Can you talk about the current status? How far are you in your startup journey right now? 00:05:28.392 --> 00:05:32.632 So we know that the technology works, and we are working in collaborations on 00:05:32.632 --> 00:05:37.132 two projects, one on a cancer therapeutic and actually another one on the gene 00:05:37.132 --> 00:05:40.472 delivery vector, which is used for genetic diseases, for example, 00:05:41.212 --> 00:05:43.672 as the first pilot project essentially. 00:05:44.112 --> 00:05:47.212 And we could already show that we can influence the composition, 00:05:47.472 --> 00:05:53.532 also the byproducts that are produced in these processes, to actually optimize 00:05:53.532 --> 00:05:54.692 the process down the road. 00:05:54.792 --> 00:05:59.232 It's still small scale, so it's lab scale. That's exactly the entry point for 00:05:59.232 --> 00:06:02.472 us into the market because process developer and seller developers, 00:06:03.672 --> 00:06:07.952 They develop a process for making these types of products exactly start on the 00:06:07.952 --> 00:06:15.192 bench top in the app scale before going into the Next months we will move forward in scaling. 00:06:17.572 --> 00:06:22.152 What is your current funding status since you are here on a business angel event, 00:06:22.372 --> 00:06:27.092 I assume you're looking for investors Yes, we have first pre-seed money, 00:06:27.392 --> 00:06:29.872 actually mostly from business angels. 00:06:30.412 --> 00:06:35.372 We are now looking into raising more money to actually show the next milestones 00:06:35.372 --> 00:06:37.132 in terms of scaling our technology. 00:06:37.672 --> 00:06:42.692 And then in order to get ready and get into pre-clinical projects with our customers 00:06:42.692 --> 00:06:47.572 and partners, then we will be raising a seed round of roughly three million. 00:06:47.772 --> 00:06:49.992 So that's something for next year, 2020. 00:06:51.192 --> 00:06:56.952 What strategies do you employ in order to get Ningaloo Biosystems integrated 00:06:56.952 --> 00:06:59.012 in the production, in the biopharma industry? 00:06:59.412 --> 00:07:05.652 So, in my previous life, I worked for a large organization that actually is 00:07:05.652 --> 00:07:07.652 a specialist in producing these types. 00:07:08.744 --> 00:07:11.764 So i know what the hurdles are i know what the entry points 00:07:11.764 --> 00:07:17.244 are i know what the regulatory environment essentially needs in this so it's 00:07:17.244 --> 00:07:21.644 important to focus on on the initial in the initial steps of designing such 00:07:21.644 --> 00:07:26.064 a solution to cover all of them and work with the partners that are experts 00:07:26.064 --> 00:07:30.484 for these types of drugs and the manufacturing environment to actually get ready, 00:07:31.064 --> 00:07:37.384 to enter such such processes with a new technology it's not easy because pharma 00:07:37.384 --> 00:07:41.044 industry biopharma industry is sort of conservative if it comes to quality. 00:07:41.244 --> 00:07:48.104 So, you need to show that you can actually improve quality and robustness of the processes. 00:07:48.384 --> 00:07:52.044 That's a big driver for our partners to take on such a need. 00:07:53.504 --> 00:07:59.304 Talking about the new technology, what KPIs do you use to assess the effectiveness, 00:08:00.124 --> 00:08:05.984 of your tools, your product, and what successes can you already show at this lab stage? 00:08:05.984 --> 00:08:12.024 So, that's actually quite dependent on the particular project. 00:08:12.524 --> 00:08:21.904 For example, with more complex antibody species, many people are concerned about byproducts. 00:08:24.404 --> 00:08:30.104 So, it's much about shifting the composition of the product towards the right 00:08:30.104 --> 00:08:34.564 product so that I don't need to purify away all the massive byproducts. 00:08:35.224 --> 00:08:40.304 In order to then, you know, lose also a lot of the corrective. 00:08:41.244 --> 00:08:48.504 In terms of gene therapy, you know, one of the most popular vectors in this area, 00:08:48.704 --> 00:08:52.444 which is AAV, a particular virus that's very popular there, the big challenge 00:08:52.444 --> 00:08:57.524 is you get a lot of empty viruses that you don't want because they're immunogenic, 00:08:58.004 --> 00:08:59.924 but don't deliver the therapy. 00:08:59.924 --> 00:09:04.024 So you need also to purify away which is costly and also loses, 00:09:04.304 --> 00:09:05.664 you know, the loosed product. 00:09:06.464 --> 00:09:13.884 So in this way, it's actually much more about shifting the production of this 00:09:13.884 --> 00:09:17.324 virus to get more cured virus. 00:09:18.044 --> 00:09:23.304 So that's why you need to work in these types of pilots with these clients to 00:09:23.304 --> 00:09:28.584 exactly understand what they want and where the pain is highest to improve that process. 00:09:29.584 --> 00:09:33.804 Great. Best of luck. Let us know when you have a successful funding. 00:09:34.064 --> 00:09:38.244 Thank you very much. Thank you. Hello and welcome back. I would like to reintroduce 00:09:38.244 --> 00:09:40.444 you to a former guest. Can you introduce yourself? 00:09:40.884 --> 00:09:46.104 Hi, my name is Henriette Maas. I'm a physicist and founder of Nanostruct BNBH. 00:09:47.444 --> 00:09:52.704 You've been a guest in the past. I looked it up in June 2021 with the publication. 00:09:52.984 --> 00:09:58.604 Can you give us First, a little idea for all the people who did not hear or 00:09:58.604 --> 00:10:00.964 see your interview, what you guys are doing. 00:10:02.443 --> 00:10:06.983 With Nanostruck, we are developing a method to detect bacteria within minutes. 00:10:07.343 --> 00:10:11.803 This is a very, very cool thing because at the moment, it takes several days 00:10:11.803 --> 00:10:13.963 to know which bacteria is causing a problem. 00:10:14.223 --> 00:10:17.123 We can do the same thing in a very, very short time. 00:10:18.143 --> 00:10:23.283 And can you tell us what development steps you have taken since the last interview? 00:10:23.283 --> 00:10:33.303 Because my understanding was at this time you were working on reliably building nanostructures. 00:10:33.563 --> 00:10:38.483 That's right. And these nanostructures are the core of our method and allow 00:10:38.483 --> 00:10:41.523 to detect always the same amount 00:10:41.523 --> 00:10:46.443 of bacteria and to make the method available in an industrial sense. 00:10:47.403 --> 00:10:54.863 So since last time, what we did was we worked with many different types of contaminants. 00:10:55.463 --> 00:10:59.883 And now we are focusing on only a few. 00:10:59.983 --> 00:11:04.163 And one of these is bacteria, which are incredibly interesting for many, 00:11:04.203 --> 00:11:05.363 many different industries. 00:11:06.143 --> 00:11:11.463 What is your current stage of development? We are close to having a prototype 00:11:11.463 --> 00:11:14.003 for the bacterial analysis for laboratories. 00:11:14.003 --> 00:11:19.843 We will have the prototype ready next year and be ready to start into the market 00:11:19.843 --> 00:11:22.763 with this product at the end of next year. 00:11:23.203 --> 00:11:26.863 Most of our audience does have a business background. 00:11:27.543 --> 00:11:33.863 Can you elaborate what your prototype could be doing or would be doing like 00:11:33.863 --> 00:11:35.043 Dumb It Down Barney style? 00:11:35.483 --> 00:11:43.343 So what our prototype will be doing is it will help laboratories to analyze bacteria very fast. 00:11:43.343 --> 00:11:51.323 So we will use the current processes which are very regulated and we will take 00:11:51.323 --> 00:11:57.963 the first step without changing it and then we will step in and take a liquid 00:11:57.963 --> 00:12:01.703 out of the process and detect whether there are bacteria in there. 00:12:03.542 --> 00:12:11.022 And just for me as a non-scientist, what is it useful for and how much can you 00:12:11.022 --> 00:12:16.322 kind of cut in terms of time the sample spends in the laboratory? 00:12:16.722 --> 00:12:23.482 So it is useful because at the moment it takes several days to identify bacteria. 00:12:23.682 --> 00:12:29.542 Bacteria can cause a lot of problems. We are now working mainly with food laboratories 00:12:29.542 --> 00:12:30.702 and with food producers. 00:12:30.702 --> 00:12:35.222 And you can imagine if you have a piece of food and there are bacteria in there 00:12:35.222 --> 00:12:39.942 and these bacteria are harmful, pathogenic bacteria, which can really hurt people 00:12:39.942 --> 00:12:43.282 and it takes several days to detect whether they are there. 00:12:43.502 --> 00:12:47.822 This means the food is very likely already eaten once you know that there has 00:12:47.822 --> 00:12:52.062 been a problem and we have many cases where producers have to make recalls, 00:12:52.162 --> 00:12:57.642 bring back food or where people get sick because of bacteria that have been overlooked. 00:12:58.602 --> 00:13:02.382 With our tool, we can do the same process, the same analysis, 00:13:02.402 --> 00:13:06.182 not within days, but in the best case, within minutes. 00:13:06.602 --> 00:13:11.862 Therefore, it will be possible to detect bacteria before the food goes out to 00:13:11.862 --> 00:13:17.522 the supermarkets, to the consumers, and we will really save people from getting ill and from dying. 00:13:18.802 --> 00:13:23.102 How are you currently funded and are you seeking additional investments? 00:13:23.102 --> 00:13:28.902 We are currently funded via Business Angels and public funds. 00:13:29.982 --> 00:13:33.362 We are not yet looking for funding, but we will be next year. 00:13:33.862 --> 00:13:41.122 So if you like the idea which you have, feel free to connect and ask us for more information. 00:13:44.482 --> 00:13:51.862 What KPIs and key metrics are you tracking and what results can you show to date? 00:13:51.862 --> 00:13:59.982 So, one important thing for us in our current status is basically what bacteria 00:13:59.982 --> 00:14:02.542 can we detect in what concentration. 00:14:03.002 --> 00:14:07.882 So, both are KPIs, the type of bacteria which we have already in our data bank 00:14:07.882 --> 00:14:15.502 and which concentrations, depending on the matrix we are working with, are possible to detect. 00:14:15.682 --> 00:14:20.202 And these are two parts which we are constantly working on to increasing and decreasing. 00:14:20.202 --> 00:14:23.062 Increasing for the first one decreasing for the second 00:14:23.062 --> 00:14:26.082 one of course and when do your milestones coming 00:14:26.082 --> 00:14:31.062 up when do you think you'll have a product ready and when do you think you're 00:14:31.062 --> 00:14:37.142 going to to the next funding round yes so we want to have our prototype ready 00:14:37.142 --> 00:14:41.842 next year in the middle of next year and once it's ready we can go into a validation 00:14:41.842 --> 00:14:45.902 the validation is important because without validating our tool, 00:14:45.922 --> 00:14:49.242 we will not be able to place it in the industry. 00:14:49.462 --> 00:14:53.782 This means validation will take another three to six months and we will be ready 00:14:53.782 --> 00:14:55.842 to market at the end of next year. 00:14:56.664 --> 00:15:01.644 It's very sunny, so I have to travel like this. Don't worry. 00:15:02.084 --> 00:15:05.904 Everything is fine. Henriette, thank you very much. It was great having you 00:15:05.904 --> 00:15:07.564 here, especially with such a great smile. 00:15:08.004 --> 00:15:11.584 Thank you very much. Thank you. Hello and welcome back. We bring you another 00:15:11.584 --> 00:15:15.824 interview from the Business Angel Summit 2024 Germany. 00:15:16.664 --> 00:15:19.804 Today I would like to welcome Bernd Kulke. 00:15:20.184 --> 00:15:27.264 And you are from Nutrilose, the app for oncology patients. Can you tell us a 00:15:27.264 --> 00:15:32.444 little bit what specific challenges related to the malnutrition in casia patients 00:15:32.444 --> 00:15:34.544 does Nutrilose address? 00:15:34.904 --> 00:15:40.784 Yes. So, in general, the issue is with the nutritional aspects and then oncology 00:15:40.784 --> 00:15:46.224 therapy is that the nutritional aspects do not get, until today, 00:15:46.324 --> 00:15:48.064 in most cases, a necessary relevance. 00:15:48.384 --> 00:15:53.384 We all know that there is a drug therapy, which are the cancer drugs more or 00:15:53.384 --> 00:15:56.664 less, and And in parallel, there's a kind of secondary therapy, 00:15:56.704 --> 00:16:01.604 it should be, which is a nutritional aspect, because we all know, based on, 00:16:03.308 --> 00:16:06.648 based on pretty much 00:16:06.648 --> 00:16:09.828 studies which are unfortunately mostly not conducted 00:16:09.828 --> 00:16:13.568 in Germany but in the US and Switzerland all over that 00:16:13.568 --> 00:16:18.588 the nutritional aspects have a very big impact on the positive outcome on a 00:16:18.588 --> 00:16:23.968 good outcome of the drug of the oncology therapy but as said unfortunately this 00:16:23.968 --> 00:16:30.908 is not tackled and yet in in Germany so far for different reasons and the Nutrilose, this app. 00:16:31.588 --> 00:16:39.868 Should just tackle this issue and really generate a much better therapy outcome for oncology patients. 00:16:40.228 --> 00:16:42.468 Can you tell us what usually goes wrong? 00:16:42.908 --> 00:16:48.888 What usually goes wrong is there are several aspects, I would say. 00:16:49.088 --> 00:16:54.428 The most relevant, or one of the most relevant ones, is that the oncologists, 00:16:54.568 --> 00:16:57.468 the doctors, do not pay the right 00:16:57.468 --> 00:17:00.668 attention, the necessary attention to nutritional aspects in the therapy. 00:17:00.908 --> 00:17:03.348 That's one case. The reason is why is it as it is? 00:17:03.988 --> 00:17:10.488 These have different reasons. One is that it's not reimbursed by health insurance 00:17:10.488 --> 00:17:11.968 companies yet for different reasons. 00:17:12.128 --> 00:17:17.928 So they only reimburse a drug and everything which is directly related to the cancer drug therapy. 00:17:17.928 --> 00:17:20.708 And the second thing is that 00:17:20.708 --> 00:17:23.588 based on the education they are not so much aware 00:17:23.588 --> 00:17:27.248 of nutritional aspects and correlation to a 00:17:27.248 --> 00:17:34.168 very positive oncology therapy and the third is and here I think it is important 00:17:34.168 --> 00:17:41.228 where we start with the Nutrilotser is that proper tools and guidelines for 00:17:41.228 --> 00:17:44.068 documentation are missing for different reasons You know, 00:17:44.568 --> 00:17:49.888 normally you have your visiting your doctor maybe once a month, 00:17:50.328 --> 00:17:52.528 two times a month, depending on the stage of therapy. 00:17:53.508 --> 00:17:59.048 And in between, there is no proper monitoring of the patient's. 00:18:00.410 --> 00:18:03.590 How the patient is in terms of nutritional aspects 00:18:03.590 --> 00:18:09.010 overall well feeling all these things are missing so if you go to the doctor 00:18:09.010 --> 00:18:13.910 for your new next appointment then they are checking all the medical topics 00:18:13.910 --> 00:18:23.570 but the focus on the nutritional aspects and on the overall well-being is not. 00:18:24.290 --> 00:18:27.510 So much in focus for the doctors it only becomes 00:18:27.510 --> 00:18:30.830 relevant most cases if 00:18:30.830 --> 00:18:33.730 it's really visible so if the patient is really 00:18:33.730 --> 00:18:36.870 getting into a very weak into a very bad stage 00:18:36.870 --> 00:18:42.970 then several cases not in each case unfortunately then the doctor is starting 00:18:42.970 --> 00:18:51.010 with a topic of malnutrition and then often it's It means that you have to start 00:18:51.010 --> 00:18:54.070 a nutritional therapy, which is very expensive, 00:18:54.330 --> 00:18:57.830 because these are then often you directly start with parenteral drugs. 00:18:58.130 --> 00:18:59.290 You know, these are wee things. 00:18:59.730 --> 00:19:05.250 And there you have costs per day for a patient of more than 200 euros. 00:19:05.490 --> 00:19:09.730 And you can sum it up for the average length of a therapy, which is six months. 00:19:09.730 --> 00:19:14.950 And then you can see how much the financial impact is of a therapy, 00:19:15.110 --> 00:19:17.990 parenteral therapy, which was initiated too late. 00:19:18.430 --> 00:19:23.290 And here we start with Nutriloetze. For us, it's important that just from the 00:19:23.290 --> 00:19:25.450 first meeting with the doctor, 00:19:25.630 --> 00:19:30.930 with all the experts which you have in your oncology first meeting, 00:19:31.090 --> 00:19:34.770 kickoff meeting, let's call it like this, even if that's tough to say for a 00:19:34.770 --> 00:19:35.850 patient, kickoff meeting. 00:19:35.850 --> 00:19:41.290 But anyhow, in general, then you already should start using our app, 00:19:41.330 --> 00:19:45.390 because then you can monitor just from the start, how does a patient develop 00:19:45.390 --> 00:19:47.130 in terms of overall well-being, 00:19:47.390 --> 00:19:51.030 in terms of nutritional aspects, and so on and so on. And you can... 00:19:52.110 --> 00:19:58.270 Start with the right treatment or at least get the right awareness for all these 00:19:58.270 --> 00:20:01.010 aspects Just when it's necessary. 00:20:01.390 --> 00:20:08.110 So means we we will plan to have a kind of Trachyglide system in the app green is okay everything, 00:20:08.710 --> 00:20:15.110 Red yellow just look on this start talking to your doctor and if it's red then 00:20:15.110 --> 00:20:16.890 it's really the right time or the. 00:20:17.710 --> 00:20:23.210 Relevant time to really start but with a new therapy, the therapy for nutritional 00:20:23.210 --> 00:20:26.490 aspects in between to your oncology therapy. 00:20:27.190 --> 00:20:31.430 And this is what we want to deliver. And the reason is really what is important 00:20:31.430 --> 00:20:37.430 in terms of the app, whereas the status quo how it's today, is that it's patient-centric. 00:20:37.710 --> 00:20:41.330 This means the patient is doing the documentation. 00:20:41.710 --> 00:20:47.130 It's all these things giving in each day in best case. How do I feel? 00:20:47.470 --> 00:20:51.590 Are there any complications? do have a headache and so on and so on. 00:20:51.670 --> 00:20:55.130 And the most relevant topic is giving in his weight. 00:20:55.870 --> 00:21:02.130 Because one of the key elements of this app to monitor and to judge the status 00:21:02.130 --> 00:21:05.550 of the patient is a BMI, a well-known BMI. 00:21:05.770 --> 00:21:12.830 This is a correlation of your weight and your length or how big you are and so on. 00:21:12.910 --> 00:21:18.530 Then there's a ratio. And if this ratio is unfortunate for you, 00:21:18.690 --> 00:21:21.930 then you have to start with your whatever necessary therapy. 00:21:22.770 --> 00:21:29.170 Could you elaborate on the current development stage of Nutriloza and any significant 00:21:29.170 --> 00:21:31.030 milestones achieved to date? 00:21:32.422 --> 00:21:36.142 To date yeah what what is a big milestone yeah i 00:21:36.142 --> 00:21:38.982 will become part of the team if you 00:21:38.982 --> 00:21:41.942 consider this as a myself no i think we already 00:21:41.942 --> 00:21:46.062 proceeded pretty well so we are more more 00:21:46.062 --> 00:21:49.662 than six months or more than half a year nearly a year already working 00:21:49.662 --> 00:21:52.462 on on this app on this concept what is 00:21:52.462 --> 00:21:55.442 the big achievement today yeah we hope to get 00:21:55.442 --> 00:21:59.022 the first mvp by end of this 00:21:59.022 --> 00:22:04.142 year beginning of next year because it's a learning also which we made today 00:22:04.142 --> 00:22:12.182 here and and before wherever is this is a very untangible topic you know you 00:22:12.182 --> 00:22:16.102 need the app you need something to show and in best case also. 00:22:16.962 --> 00:22:20.702 To have a tool or a proof that this 00:22:20.702 --> 00:22:24.582 concept is working with patients everything else 00:22:24.582 --> 00:22:27.662 is just nice theoretical approach but it's 00:22:27.662 --> 00:22:32.202 hard to to convince really uh investors to 00:22:32.202 --> 00:22:35.542 give money for something which they unfortunately really cannot 00:22:35.542 --> 00:22:38.502 make a clear mind 00:22:38.502 --> 00:22:41.482 of because we are talking here about a very sensitive topic 00:22:41.482 --> 00:22:45.722 ecology cancer uh which 00:22:45.722 --> 00:22:49.182 in worst case nobody wants to get involved in because 00:22:49.182 --> 00:22:52.282 it's not so favorable and in other cases 00:22:52.282 --> 00:22:55.422 they really do not know really what does it mean what are 00:22:55.422 --> 00:22:59.062 the issues how should a idol therapy 00:22:59.062 --> 00:23:01.922 look like and so on and so on that's why we really came 00:23:01.922 --> 00:23:08.502 to the conclusion that mvp is really critical also to get new funds and you're 00:23:08.502 --> 00:23:13.562 currently looking for funding and all partnerships yeah that's a good one this 00:23:13.562 --> 00:23:17.162 is a good question partnerships i think primarily we're looking for funding 00:23:17.162 --> 00:23:21.762 that's also why we're here we need money. 00:23:24.302 --> 00:23:32.022 What strategies are you employing to integrate Nutrilose into existing cancer care practices? 00:23:32.462 --> 00:23:36.842 And how are you approaching user acquisition? Yeah, it's... 00:23:38.175 --> 00:23:41.735 Great topic, but also a great issue. 00:23:42.375 --> 00:23:46.955 So what does it mean to step one step backwards? 00:23:47.215 --> 00:23:51.115 So how do we want to get money into the system? I think that's always a key question. 00:23:51.335 --> 00:23:58.655 So we made the decision that our idea can only fly if we get reimbursement for the product. 00:23:58.835 --> 00:24:01.855 So it's nothing out of pocket. It's nothing OTC, whatever. 00:24:02.235 --> 00:24:04.275 We really need reimbursement. 00:24:05.035 --> 00:24:09.075 So there are two options to get the reimbursement. these are selective contracts 00:24:09.075 --> 00:24:13.135 with health insurance companies now which you have to to negotiate deal, 00:24:13.795 --> 00:24:16.815 health insurance by health insurance to get a reimbursement there 00:24:16.815 --> 00:24:20.015 or there's the other option to to get a 00:24:20.015 --> 00:24:24.195 general reimbursement which then would be a kind of these digger i don't know 00:24:24.195 --> 00:24:30.215 how much you know about these digger digital solutions in health but this is 00:24:30.215 --> 00:24:35.575 our i would like to say secondary option because digas already have a bad reputation 00:24:35.575 --> 00:24:37.175 for different reasons in the market, 00:24:37.675 --> 00:24:45.915 And to get a really approved DIGA, it's a much longer way to ask whether to 00:24:45.915 --> 00:24:50.755 get an app which is qualified as a medical device in the first step, 00:24:50.895 --> 00:24:55.755 class one, and then get the selective reimbursement from individual health insurance companies. 00:24:56.055 --> 00:25:00.075 So reimbursement is the first thing. And then if there's reimbursement, 00:25:00.175 --> 00:25:04.715 for sure, the one who has to distribute the app are the doctors, 00:25:04.835 --> 00:25:07.315 the oncologists, most of them. 00:25:07.315 --> 00:25:13.215 So then the second step is really to get this into the standard routines of the oncologist. 00:25:13.535 --> 00:25:18.175 And here we really have to start in best cases with the first cancer kickoff 00:25:18.175 --> 00:25:21.715 meeting where the patient and everyone is getting together for the first time 00:25:21.715 --> 00:25:25.255 and they are talking and defining about the therapy. 00:25:25.635 --> 00:25:29.375 And then in best cases also we are already part of this procedure. 00:25:33.049 --> 00:25:39.389 What KPIs are you monitoring to assess the effectiveness of Nutridoce and what 00:25:39.389 --> 00:25:41.609 outcomes have you observed so far? 00:25:41.849 --> 00:25:47.169 So everything which is outcome related, it's just business experience, 00:25:47.809 --> 00:25:53.029 these are studies, this is whatever, because this concept does not exist so 00:25:53.029 --> 00:25:57.009 far, except for everything which we have in our mind or where. 00:25:57.009 --> 00:25:59.249 But there's no real tool. 00:25:59.429 --> 00:26:03.309 But if it might have been launched in the first stage for us, 00:26:04.009 --> 00:26:06.549 what is also important, sorry, I forgot this. 00:26:08.569 --> 00:26:14.709 So the Nutrilose, more or less, has two aspects, the medical one and the financial one. 00:26:14.929 --> 00:26:19.749 So we spoke a lot about the medical impact, so medical relevance on how to better 00:26:19.749 --> 00:26:21.309 monitor it and so on and so on. 00:26:21.569 --> 00:26:25.569 And then there's also, which I touched a bit in the very beginning, 00:26:25.789 --> 00:26:30.169 financial aspect, which is mostly related to health insurance companies. 00:26:30.449 --> 00:26:36.049 Because as I said, if the awareness for nutritional aspects starts too late, 00:26:36.909 --> 00:26:41.409 means in a very bad stage, nutritional stage of the patient, 00:26:41.689 --> 00:26:46.409 then you have to act and spend lots of money into the patient to stabilize or 00:26:46.409 --> 00:26:49.189 to improve his nutritional, his overall aspects. 00:26:49.429 --> 00:26:52.169 This costs, as I said, a lot of money for the health insurance. 00:26:52.169 --> 00:26:58.029 Is cost you more than 200 euros per day for a period of up to three months. 00:26:58.229 --> 00:27:03.069 So then you can calculate what does it cost per patient, the secondary nutritional therapy. 00:27:03.369 --> 00:27:07.709 And here we want to win the health insurance with a message that we say, 00:27:07.889 --> 00:27:12.909 if you really have a proper monitoring just from the start, you can avoid 10 00:27:12.909 --> 00:27:15.109 to 20 percent of those patients. 00:27:16.174 --> 00:27:19.194 Which costs you today 600 uh 200 00:27:19.194 --> 00:27:22.994 euros per day for three months yeah so 00:27:22.994 --> 00:27:25.694 this is the other financial aspects and this is our 00:27:25.694 --> 00:27:28.734 biggest trigger how we want to win health insurance 00:27:28.734 --> 00:27:31.894 companies because they know uh what 00:27:31.894 --> 00:27:35.434 it costs they know how tight their budgets are so 00:27:35.434 --> 00:27:38.534 next to the medical aspects these financial health insurance 00:27:38.534 --> 00:27:42.074 related uh focus let's 00:27:42.074 --> 00:27:46.394 call it like this is a main part the whole concept great so 00:27:46.394 --> 00:27:49.054 only thing left for me to say is good luck on your 00:27:49.054 --> 00:27:51.974 startup journey and let us know when you achieve the next milestone 00:27:51.974 --> 00:27:57.954 we will you can be sure thanks a lot thank you welcome everybody to another 00:27:57.954 --> 00:28:04.894 interview from the business angel summit here in lovely minds today i'm talking 00:28:04.894 --> 00:28:11.054 with alexander david from greenable i'm one of the founders awesome can you tell us First, 00:28:11.314 --> 00:28:16.994 what specific challenges in CO2 footprint calculation does Greenable address 00:28:16.994 --> 00:28:20.574 and who is your primary target customer? 00:28:20.974 --> 00:28:24.534 Usually you have the problem in carbon footprint accounting that is very complex. 00:28:24.894 --> 00:28:29.094 People are no experts and people do not have time in the companies to actually 00:28:29.094 --> 00:28:30.454 calculate carbon footprint. 00:28:30.634 --> 00:28:34.794 So they have to start from scratch and from the beginning. And we do help the 00:28:34.794 --> 00:28:38.854 customers by providing a software that is intuitive and enable our customers 00:28:38.854 --> 00:28:42.454 to calculate, reduce and report their carbon footprint. 00:28:42.754 --> 00:28:47.474 So our main customers are basically small and medium-sized companies from the 00:28:47.474 --> 00:28:50.174 steel, plastics and packaging industry, for example. 00:28:51.554 --> 00:28:55.174 Why do they need to calculate the CO2 footprint? 00:28:55.834 --> 00:28:59.794 So companies need to calculate the carbon footprint for their products because 00:28:59.794 --> 00:29:04.854 of the CSRD coming next year and because of the digital product passport coming in 2027. 00:29:05.474 --> 00:29:10.094 So because of these regulations, companies need to calculate the carbon footprint in the end. 00:29:10.827 --> 00:29:14.067 I see so there's a regulatory requirement to prove 00:29:14.067 --> 00:29:17.047 the carbon footprint exactly especially in 00:29:17.047 --> 00:29:20.127 scope 3 3.1 3.4 like the 00:29:20.127 --> 00:29:23.467 supply chain emissions company have to calculate 00:29:23.467 --> 00:29:26.727 the emissions i see could you elaborate 00:29:26.727 --> 00:29:31.407 on the current development stage of greenable and any significant milestones 00:29:31.407 --> 00:29:37.887 achieved today so yeah we founded greenable in 2022 as a company and we started 00:29:37.887 --> 00:29:44.147 off with the Exist student founders grant and then we closed our pre-suit round last year. 00:29:44.607 --> 00:29:48.647 We have currently a team of 12 people. We're based in Kaiserslautern where our 00:29:48.647 --> 00:29:53.547 offices are and our product is on the market since summer last year already 00:29:53.547 --> 00:29:58.847 and we have around nine customers on the software that are already paying and 00:29:58.847 --> 00:30:00.007 using the software right now. 00:30:01.127 --> 00:30:07.047 For the American audience that is also popularly known as K-Town in the US military. 00:30:07.307 --> 00:30:08.487 You have a big presence there, right? 00:30:08.787 --> 00:30:10.107 Yeah, exactly. It's known as 00:30:10.107 --> 00:30:14.287 K-Town because there's the big airbase in Kaiserslautern. Yeah, exactly. 00:30:14.547 --> 00:30:17.627 Yeah, it's very close to it and it's called Rammstein. Exactly, yeah. 00:30:18.807 --> 00:30:24.127 Do you feel any different because you're not based out of major tech hub? 00:30:24.847 --> 00:30:29.447 No, actually not because we are like a spin-off from the Technical University 00:30:29.447 --> 00:30:34.447 of Kaiserslautern. So, we have quite a good background and also because we are 00:30:34.447 --> 00:30:37.527 a spin-off of the German Research Center for Artificial Intelligence. 00:30:38.047 --> 00:30:43.307 So, that gives us a really solid background in science and also in research. 00:30:43.587 --> 00:30:48.267 For everybody who doesn't know, can you tell us just a few sentences about the 00:30:48.267 --> 00:30:50.107 Research Center for Artificial Intelligence? 00:30:50.467 --> 00:30:54.847 Yeah, the Research Center for Artificial Intelligence in Germany is like basically 00:30:54.847 --> 00:30:59.107 the institution for AI in Germany. and they have different areas, 00:30:59.547 --> 00:31:03.267 for example, like innovative factory systems. It's also where I worked before. 00:31:03.467 --> 00:31:06.527 And this is also dealing with the topic of sustainability. 00:31:08.647 --> 00:31:13.007 What is your current funding status? And are you seeking additional funds or 00:31:13.007 --> 00:31:14.907 partnerships to expand your solution? 00:31:15.507 --> 00:31:19.527 Yeah, our currently funding status is that we closed the pre-seed round last year in summer. 00:31:19.647 --> 00:31:23.567 And now we're looking for new funding in 2025. So in the beginning of 2025, 00:31:23.887 --> 00:31:29.427 and we are looking for potential new investors and partners for our next funding round. 00:31:30.427 --> 00:31:36.247 What strategies are you employing to integrate Greenable into existing corporate 00:31:36.247 --> 00:31:38.107 sustainability initiatives? 00:31:38.387 --> 00:31:41.147 And how are you approaching customer acquisition? 00:31:42.187 --> 00:31:46.047 So what we basically do is we try to partner up with other companies, 00:31:46.367 --> 00:31:51.147 so finding ways together with them to push the topic of sustainability because 00:31:51.147 --> 00:31:55.627 some companies provide CSRD tools, we provide product carbon footprint. 00:31:55.627 --> 00:31:59.607 So together that builds quite a good ecosystem and especially within sustainability 00:31:59.607 --> 00:32:05.487 you have to work together in that case to help the companies that are in need. 00:32:06.389 --> 00:32:09.249 Um what what is like in terms of 00:32:09.249 --> 00:32:15.449 size company size either revenue or employees or both what is your usual customer 00:32:15.449 --> 00:32:20.229 look like yeah we are usually around a thousand employees also with some companies 00:32:20.229 --> 00:32:24.389 that are way smaller but also some that are a little bit bigger but yeah the 00:32:24.389 --> 00:32:29.089 small and medium says the german middle stand is basically the customer base we are aiming at. 00:32:29.829 --> 00:32:33.889 And i would assume there are thousands of potential customers in germany alone 00:32:33.889 --> 00:32:38.289 yeah basically there There are many, many, many companies, more than over a 00:32:38.289 --> 00:32:39.529 thousand companies that would 00:32:39.529 --> 00:32:43.809 need a product carbon footprint for their company, for their products. 00:32:44.469 --> 00:32:48.009 Yeah, as said, regulatory requirements coming in the next years. Exactly. 00:32:48.369 --> 00:32:53.769 What are the KPIs you are monitoring to assess the effectiveness of Greenable 00:32:53.769 --> 00:32:56.909 and what outcomes have you observed so far? 00:32:57.349 --> 00:33:00.309 So what we are obsessing as KPIs is, of course, the 00:33:00.309 --> 00:33:03.449 products our customer are calculating their carbon footprint for 00:33:03.449 --> 00:33:06.329 also the different suppliers they have things 00:33:06.329 --> 00:33:09.309 like that but also in terms of our sales we 00:33:09.309 --> 00:33:12.449 are looking at our customer satisfaction scores for example 00:33:12.449 --> 00:33:15.449 and with that we can always improve the product we can 00:33:15.449 --> 00:33:18.189 improve the process that we are dealing with and that 00:33:18.189 --> 00:33:21.209 are some of the kpis we think that are interesting for 00:33:21.209 --> 00:33:24.889 us did you have in the past already some major customer 00:33:24.889 --> 00:33:27.709 feedback that really changed the direction of your 00:33:27.709 --> 00:33:31.089 product not really the direction but it 00:33:31.089 --> 00:33:33.929 more or less cleared the way that we were already 00:33:33.929 --> 00:33:38.349 aiming at because some customers were requiring features that we planned maybe 00:33:38.349 --> 00:33:43.969 a little bit later in the process and that we just did before now because the 00:33:43.969 --> 00:33:47.929 customer said yeah it would be good to have not nice to have but would be really 00:33:47.929 --> 00:33:53.549 good to have so we did that a bit earlier but no major shifts yet okay Great. 00:33:53.729 --> 00:33:56.069 Thank you very much. It was a pleasure having you. Thank you. 00:33:59.280 --> 00:34:06.160 Music. 00:34:11.440 --> 00:34:26.250 Music.