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The Dark Knight with Pallavi Gunalan · The Bechdel Cast

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: On the beck dol Cast, the questions asked if movies
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: have women in them? Are all their discussions just boyfriends
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: and husbands? Do they have individualism? The patriarchy? Zef invest
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: start changing it with the Bechdel Cast. Hello and welcome
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: to the Bechdel Cast. My name is Caitlin Durante Amie Loftus,
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: and we talk about the representation of women in movie True.
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: This is the podcast where we do it. We've been
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: doing it for years at this point. Wild It's true,
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: and we use the Bechdel test and we're heard of it,
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: which is a media metric developed by cartoonist Alison Bechdel.
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: Ever heard of her? Also sometimes done as the Bechdel
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: Wallace test, which we always forget to say. We're done
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: with Wallace erature over here? Yeah, um, but yeah. The
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: Bechtel test, if you don't know, is a media metric
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: that requires there be a scene that includes two named
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: female identa find characters who talked to each other about
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: something other than man. Most of the biggest franchises that
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: have ever been released don't passes. Wait can we do
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: a test run of it? Let's do it, Hey, Jamie, Caitlin,
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: why so? Serious, K, maybe just need to go back
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: on well putrin and really start evaluating my options. Sure,
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: I've been thinking about going back to therapy. Wow, good
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: for you. I should too. Uh. The reason I don't
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: like my current therapist would break the test. Okay, so
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: let's not talk about it. Yeah, yeah, all right, Well
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: that's pretty much passed the BEC test. Male therapist. I
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: can't do it. I don't know what it is. Yeah.
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: They I've always struggled with them. He's just like he's
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: he's so smart, but he's also like, what are you
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: talking about? And like this is this isn't gonna work anyways. Uh,
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: I'm very excited to talk about I think probably one
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: of the most famous movies of our time, I mean iconique.
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: It is, yes, and I think we can all agree
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: a feminist texts, feminist masterpiece. Yes, yes, yes, womanhood has
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: changed because of this. Oh yes. But before we dive in,
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: let's introduce our guests. She is a hilarious comedian. She's
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: one of the co hosts of Facial Recognition Comedy. It's
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: Paula Vignolin. Thanks for having me. I also don't like
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: mail therapist. I it sucks. He like saved my life,
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: and then I wanted to get rid of him right away.
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: I felt really bad. Anyways, it's been three years and
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: I'm a coward. God fun good stuff. So we're talking
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: about the Dark Knight. Yes she wasn't eight Christopher Nolan,
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: the second installment of the Dark Knight trilogy, but I
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: feel like the most famous and enduring installment. Agree, Paul V.
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: What is your history your relationship with this film? Okay,
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: thank you so much for asking. I love Batman. Batman's
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: my favorite. I love Batman the animated series the best,
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: and then this movie the next Oay, I watched this
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: movie and uh, there's a part in it where the
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: Joker is just sticking his head out of a window
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: and literally in the in the theater, the audience just
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: erupted an applause for this villain. And I did too,
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: like we were all like so excited for him. And
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: I love movies and books like that where it takes
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: like really horrible people and it like makes you up. People.
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: I mean, people love this. I mean there's like it's
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: it's uh sad, very sad. Because I think that this
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: movie was released posthumously for Heath Ledger and it was
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: his greatest role. Yeah. So, I mean everything's lined up
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: for people to be addicted to the Joker, and he's
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: so good. It's amazing. Say what you will, whether it's
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: a fun this text or not, his performance is so
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: so good. I mean I try to model my comedy
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: after his jokes. Yes, he's also an iconic comedian because
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: that's where my pencil went. All of our writing. Uniontemps
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: is what happened. They're just blood everywhere, you know. But yeah,
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: I really love this movie and it was like my
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: favorite movie for a while. A lot of my favorite
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: movies are so misogynous and I don't know, like same,
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: this is a huge problem of life. Well, Mad Max
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: wasn't it was. I think the reason that I loved
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: it was because it was feminist road or mat Max
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: Fury Road. Yeah, I love that movie. And I also
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: really loved Fight Club, and I think that I'm not
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: allowed to say that on Twitter. We've all been there,
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: We've all gone through the fight Club phase. I mean
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: it's just like, yeah, live and learn, baby. I mean,
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: I think my most problematic faive of like these like
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: toxic male franchises is the Indiana Jones series, which means
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: I still love it, Like we don't eat monkey Brains.
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: Temple of Doom is the worst one. It is. Yeah,
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: so but Last Crusade is a boatload of fun and
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: yet it's so bad and it's wild. Yeah, I think
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: The Dark Knight is that movie for a lot of people.
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: What's your experience with the Cabin? I saw it in
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: the theater, I think probably more than once. I think
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: I maybe saw it a couple of times in theaters,
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: and then I promptly bought it on DVD. I watched that.
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: I also like Batman Begins a lot, And I think
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: this might sound wild to say, but I think I
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: like Batman Begins better. And I only realized this upon
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: rewatching both of them to prep for this episode. I
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: was like, Oh, there's like thirty minutes at the beginning
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: of Dark Knight and thirty minutes at the end where
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: it's like either hard to follow or kind of boring
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: or like a climactic, But that Man Begins is like
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: a streamline like story all the way through with like
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: rising tension, and it's just like, I don't know, and
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: I like an origin story. Arrest me. It's whatever, you're
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: in jail. No one's arguing for The Dark Knight, Rice
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: is no, No, that was actually filmed. I went to
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: Carnegie Mellon and part of that was filmed on one
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: of the buildings, like the part where the steps I did.
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: I did microscopy and I had classes in that building.
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: Isn't the football stadium that's in that movie? Also the Steelers? Yeah,
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: I thought anyway wild So, yeah, I love this movie. Um,
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: I haven't revisited it though in probably like five years
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: or so. Yeah, Jamie, what about you? I love this
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: movie too. I've never been a superhero person, as loyal
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: fans of the show will know, but I feel like
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: this movie came out when I was in high school,
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: and it just like everybody saw it. I hadn't seen.
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: I remember seeing this movie and then having to go
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: back and watch Batman Begins because I hadn't had any
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: interest in it. And then I mean, yeah, I've seen
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: I think I've seen the full trilogy twice, but I've
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: seen this movie probably five or six times because it's
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: I don't know, but yeah, it's it's it's the one
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: that people tell you to watch over and over, and
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: it's the one that every toxic boyfriend makes you watch
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: with him. So I've I've seen this movie a bunch.
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: I always really enjoy it. Also had and revisited it
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: in at least five years, and you know, a lot
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: to discuss, certainly fridge, fridge, fridge, much fridging, Okay, fridging.
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: So that's like when let's oh, yeah, yeah, we'll get there.
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: So should I just do the recap? This movie is
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: very long. I'll make this as quick as possible. It
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: is two and a half hours anyway, So we open
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: the Joker is robbing a mob bank. He's killing his
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: criminal buddies were kind of thing the process. It evokes
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: Spider Man too, when Alfred Molline is wearing the fedora
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: at the bank right and while mcale is there and
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: Alpha Willina is like throwing bags of coin much Goofi
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: or movie. It's in a different tone. It is very goody.
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: Then we cut to Batman. He stops this scarecrow because
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: I guess he forgot to do that, and Batman begins,
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: I don't know, uh, and then Batman throws a dog.
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: There was a lot of dog throwing animals, just like,
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: who whose dog is this? I mean, rott Wiler's the
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: representation of rott Wiler specifically in this movie is not
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: positive anyway. So um, Meanwhile, there's a new district attorney
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: in town, Harvey Dent. He is dating Bruce Wayne's love interest,
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: Rachel Dawes, who were just like, oh it's Maggie Jillenhall.
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: Now it's no longer Katy Homes. We'll take whatever scientology
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: gives us, right scientology give it, and to take it away.
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: And Bruce Wayne is jealous because he wants to kiss
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: Rachel um Gordon Lieutenant Gordon, feminist icon Gary old Banks. Yeah,
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: there's a whole laundry list of like problematic men cast
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: in this movie. So he needs Dent's approval to get
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: warrants to search, and I guess sees these mob banks. Meanwhile,
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: Joker shows up to a mob meeting and they're all
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: trying to figure out how to keep their money safe.
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: And the Jokers like, oh, you should pay me to
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: kill Batman. And the mob doesn't like Joker, but he
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: is wacky and unhinged. Sonny, He's silly and and he
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: makes his own clothes. He's like that, so raven in
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: that way, and the only character I think of when
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: they think of someone who makes her own clothes. She's
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: a style. It was awesome anyways, but so Joker is scary,
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: so they're like, oh, well, I guess we gotta do
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: what he says. And then there's this guy, Mr. Law
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: who does all the bookkeeping for the Mob. So Batman
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: goes to Hong Kong and brings him back to Gotham,
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: and Dent and Rachel are like, you're in big trouble.
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: Mr so Loud gives up all the names of the
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: Mob boys so that Harvey Dent can put them away
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: in jail. My boys back at it again. Joker does
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: not like that this happened, so he's like, hey, Batman,
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: take off your mask and show yourself. And every day
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: that you don't do this, I will kill people. Meanwhile,
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: Bruce Wayne throws a fundraiser for Harvey Dent because he
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: wants Dent to be the new like face of hope
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: or justice, tipping the scale with candidates you know. Well, well,
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: he wants this because he basically wants to retire from
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: being Batman so that he can kiss Rachel because in
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: the first movie she's like, while you're still Batman, we
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: can't beat together. So Joker shows up to the fundraiser
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: to go after Dent, and this is after he has
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: killed the police commissioner and the judge who sentenced all
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: of the mob boys. Uh So Batman fights him off
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: and then Joker tries to kill the mayor, but Gordon
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: takes the bullet for him during this parade and Gordon
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: dies or does he forgot that this happened? Exhausting because
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: then they have to go to his wife and be
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: like him dead, and then they go back to his
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: wife say him fine, well at least they got, you know,
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: some of his wife in there. That's like a third
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: of women, that's true. It's uh yeah, women weeping over
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: Gary Oldman's death, So you know it's fiction. So Joker
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: names Rachel Dawes as his next victim, and Batman doesn't
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: want any more blood us on his hands, and so
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: he decides to reveal himself and the hopes that Joker
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: will stop killing people. But before he can do this,
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: Harvey Dent steps up and he's like, I'm the Batman,
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: and his reasoning for this is that when the Joker
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: attacks again, the real Batman will be able to like
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: swoop in and take him down. So as they're getting
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: Harvey Dent to safety or they've arrested him. I'm not
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: sure they're transporting him somewhere. The Joker shows up and
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: there's this big chase scene which is very fun. Shortly
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: after that is the scene where he's like his head
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: is out the window and the wind is in his
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: hair and he's just like ah, the iconic yeah. But
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: Batman shows up to stop the Joker, and then we
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: find out that Gordon is not dead after all, and
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: he arrests and locks up the Joker and then gets
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: promoted to commissioner. Yea for him, problematic men in charge, Hurrah,
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: and the Joker claps for him. This is a little
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: Joker clap. It was like he does Nancy Pelosi clap,
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: like I had his time in every way. But Joker
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: has already kidnapped Dent and Rachel or he's had his
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: goons do it, and he put he's put them in
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: two different locations, and Batman has to choose who he's
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: going to go save, so he goes after Rachel. He
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: shows up there at the address and Harvey is where
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: Joker said that Rachel would be, So explosions go off,
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: Rachel dies and then half of Harvey's face gets burned
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: off and then he becomes to face and he's bad.
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: Now he's upset, he's got he's got a new look.
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: You gotta glow up new at it or a glow down,
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: a lit up, and it's so gruesome. It is like
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: he would be dead. I don't understand how he's still alive.
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: I remember the first time seeing that in theaters and
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: being like I was. It was like fifteen, but I
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: was like this scared graphic like and that same thing
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: happened in like Breaking Bad. When did you go to
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: see Breaking Bad? I stopped after like four seasons, like
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: one of the major bad guys, like who's he's half
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: his face is blown off, but he just like dies, right,
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: that's what happens. But he but he dies like he
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: like still walks outside and then falls down and you're
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: like your face is gone right wild Anyway, Harvey Dent
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: is so strong and everyone loves him, so he survives
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: and becomes two face, and then Joker blows up a
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: hospital because Batman still has not revealed himself, and then
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: his next target are these two fairies. One is full
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: of prisoners and one is full of civilians and both
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: are full of explosion the classic trolley probably love it
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: doesn't that happen in Spiderman too, that happens in most
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: of but that also like they just had that with
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: Rachel and Dent. They were like pick your poison, right, Yeah,
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: he just did that, right, So it's like a new move, babe. Um.
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: And he's doing this social experiment to see if they
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: will blow each other up, these two boats. And he
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: didn't just do that. What did not pick up on that?
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: It's more people and it's very obvious bad guys. Yeah,
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: it's like a from Trolley problem too big. Okay, this
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: didn't work the first time I tried it. Let's make
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: it big. He's like, let's raise the stakes, let's you know, escalate.
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: So Dent meanwhile is going after the crooked cops who
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: sold him and Rachel out and he's killing them. And
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: then Batman finds Joker via this like crazy surveillance machine.
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: And I said, yeah, there's some really weird stuff glorified
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: in this movie, Like thank god the n s A
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: Was spying on everyone, or we wouldn't have been able
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: to find Mr Joke. Yeah, yea, And the boats don't
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: blow each other up. And then the jokers like, hey,
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: wait a minute, I thought that would work. And then
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: he's caught. But there's a whole thing after this. H
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: Then Harvey Dent has kidnapped Gordon's family because I guess
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: like Gordon was okay with having crooked cops in his
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: unit something like that. I don't know, and scary oldman,
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: You're just like, it's probably I don't know, right, I
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: don't know. He's supposed to be good. He's supposed to
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: be good. And then Batman shows up once again and
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: saves the day. Dent gets killed, but they all have
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: to pretend like he was still good since he was
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: like Gotham's White Knight. So Gotham's Dark Night, that's the
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: name by the movie, is going to take the fault
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: for dense crimes because something about a hero that we
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: have but we need, but we deserve it. It's the
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: one we deserve but not the one we need right now.
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: It's weird. I like people think it should be flipped,
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: didn't stuff. I don't know. I know, I've seen it
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: as a back tattoo. Let's take a quick break and
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: then we'll jump into the discussion and we're back man
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: I I was thinking a lot about a friend of
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: the cast, Whitmer Thomas. He does like a I was
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: just thinking of his joker bit for most of this movie. Oh,
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: I either haven't seen it or haven't seen it in
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: a while, because I don't really remember it. They talked
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: about it a lot on on his podcast American Arts
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: and Culture Reviews. I wanted to shout that out at
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: the top because I was thinking about it consistently throughout
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: thinking about a man's work. Jamie, Okay, listen, I I'm
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: very problematic, and I'm honestly canceled. I blame her male therapist.
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: He probably accepting you. Another Christopher Nolan there? Okay, Christopher.
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: Can we talk abut Christopher Nolan right at the top
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: because he has some problems he I'm a fan of
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: his work generally, he has a major issue with Uh. Well,
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: let's talk about fridging the concept of fridging, so I
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: have some info here, women in refrigerators. It was actually, oh,
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: it's exactly what it sounds like. It's literally exactly what
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: it sounds um. I think we first talked about this
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: in an episode are Laura Croft episode with Danny Fernandez. Um.
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: So way back in the day, but for a refresher.
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: It was originally a website created in nine by a
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: group of feminist comic book fans that list examples of
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: the comic book trope whereby female characters are injured, raped, killed,
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: or depowered, sometimes to stimulate protective traits as a plot
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: device intended to move a male character story arc forward.
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: So Gayle Simone is generally the woman credited with this,
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: and it basically comes from do you have the information
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: of the reason it's called fridging is because of a
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: specific thick comic book plot where a wife or girlfriend
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: is killed and literally stuffed in a fridge to motivate
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: the man. I don't know the specific source of that,
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: so if we have any fans who know, please, I
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: don't know the specific like comic book being referenced, but
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: that's why it's called fridging. But now it's kind of
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: just shorthand for killing off a female character, usually a wife,
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: a girlfriend, loving, killing off, kidnapping, brutalizing in some way
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: to motivate and to move the story forward, which this
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: movie is very guilty as several times, but also Christopher
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: Nolan's work in general is guilty of if we're thinking
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: of his filmography, where like you start with Memento, which
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: is he's trying his wife. That movie is his wife,
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: Inception is his wife. Batman the Dark Knight is his girlfriend. There, Like,
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: it is such a consistent pattern in his work that,
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: from what I could tell, the first time in his
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: entire filmography, the first time that doesn't happen is, um,
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: what's the movie about space? Oh, Interstellar, that's the first
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: movie where someone isn't fridged. There's no fridges there. No,
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: that's why there's nowhere to put women in Spaceifically, He
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: was just like, well, it doesn't seem to be an option,
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: but it is. I mean, it's I don't want to like,
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's by no means a reason to knock
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: his work as a whole, But it is interesting to
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: like see how long it takes for Ohtour filmmakers like
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: Christopher Nolan to pick up on or get enough blowback of,
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: like you can't this is so lazy and shitty, and
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: you know right, because the implications of fridging, I mean
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: there's many of them. It's that a woman, first of all,
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: it means we have to usually see a woman being
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: brutalized on screen. The implication is that a woman is
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: much weaker than her male counterparts, and then it is
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: not as important to the story, right, just Damsel in distress. Right,
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: But like just turned up to an eleven and that
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: the movie I was forgetting about was The Prestige, where
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: Hugh Jackman's assistant wife dies and then the story basically starts. Um,
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: So The Dark Knight is not an exception to this rule.
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: Chris Nolan made Interstellar, which I've never seen, but it's amazing.
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: People love it. It's because they actually do black holes right,
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: Like it's the first time I've ever seen science in
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: a movie accurately. It's because Kip Thorn, who won the
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: Nobel Prize in physics, like consulted and they listened to him.
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: That's amazing. We should mention that Paula v is a
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: woman in stem I need to go to school. But yeah,
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: this is the this, this is a movie where it happens.
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: And then, just to extend a little, it doesn't happen
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: an Interstellar, And then there's no women in that Boy
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: Island movie he made. Are you happy? Are you happy? Now?
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: There's no fridging because there's no women, there's no fridges
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: in space, there's no women on the island. He's like
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: Harry Styles happy. So yes, there is. That's my comment
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: on Chris Nolan as it took he figured it out
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: for exactly one movie. Yeah, and it's not this one.
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: It is not this one because it does certainly happen
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: a lot. So we have essentially one main female character
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: in this movie. We have a couple of secondary characters,
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: but as far as the main one who still doesn't
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: get that much screen time, it is Rachel Dawes. She
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: is framed as the love interest of two different men,
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: so another you know, like female character put into like
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: a love triangle situation. But it's crazy that she's the
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: love interest of two men and they both still can't
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: tell that she's not Katie Holmes, you know what I mean,
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: Like they're so in love with her, like no, I'm
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: just in love with the idea of you, Micky Jillian
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: hall Man. She does her best with what she's given here.
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: I like her a lot. Yeah I like her too.
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: But yeah, so just to continue this this fridging damseling conversation. Um,
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: it first happens during the fundraising party that Bruce Wayne
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: throws for Harvey Denton. The Joker shows up, he threatens her,
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: kind of has a knife to her face. He's telling
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: a story about his wife, but I think his wife
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: is fake in which she's damseling her too. Write yeah,
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: it's fictional his wife. So Batman comes in and saves
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: her by like punching the Joker in the face. I
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: just think it's funny that the reason she's put in
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: that situation where he like grabs a knife and puts
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: it to her face is because he's like threatening an
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: old man. And she's like, okay, knock it off. Oh no.
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: He's like, oh you got a little fight, and yeah,
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: She's like damn, sounds like I'm scared. A few minutes later,
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: Joker grabs her again, holds a gun to her head,
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: and then drops her out of a window, and then
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: Batman has to dive after her and save her. In Yeah. Also,
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: I feel like that's not how gravity works. But okay, right,
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: he's he has his suit. His acceleration due to gravity
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: in his Batman suit is like faster than normal because
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: of all of his science science. Yeah, I'm not a
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: woman in stem, but I feel like that's how that works.
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: Then she gets damseled again like for the third and finale,
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: it's a game where the Joker's goons we've understood to
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: have kidnapped her, put her in this warehouse full of explosives,
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: and then she is killed when the explosives go off. Right,
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: this is I mean, there's a lot written about this character, um,
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: from what my research indicates. And I'm not a bat head,
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: so simply go off in the comments if I'm wrong.
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: But she she's one of the only characters in this
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: film franchise that was added for the movie. Um, she
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: is not a character that appears here to this film franchise,
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: So she was not in the comics or anything like that.
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: He isn't interesting. There's there's a number of other I mean,
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: I think they appear in other Batman movies. There's a
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: number of other Batman girlfriends Vick, even from the Tim
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: Burton Batman I remember that, which we did cover many
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: many moons ago. I know it's wild one of the
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: first episodes. Um, but yeah, she she doesn't appear in
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: the comic books originally, and I feel like that is
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: kind of so it's not even an adaptation problem. Which
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: I think some of the issues with this movie kind
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: of ore and all comic book movies sort of come
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: up against that. But Rachel that that doesn't seem to
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: actually apply to her, So it's kind of like even
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: more obnoxious that the screenwriters just fucked up. The screenwriters
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: fridged her, and I would argue she has some merry
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: suit qualities. Uh, and there's just I don't know, like
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: she's just kind of like a go to like every
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: trope I don't I like, well, I don't have a
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: handle on who she is at all. Really. I also
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: think it's like crazy that like she she's wavering on
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: like who she wants to be with, and she's painted
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: like she kisses Bruce Wayne when she's with Harvey, so
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: then it's like and then she's like sacrificed, so like
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: you don't even get to like her as much as
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: you want to. Well that's I have a theory about that,
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: And I don't know if anyone else has read it
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: this way, but I feel like there's a read of
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: it where the movie feels justified in killing her because
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: she doesn't choose, because she doesn't she was going to leave. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: where it's like she's made to seem like a little
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: bit less lovable before she even though it's like objectively
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: she's making the right I mean, if you if she,
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: I mean, if if we were really she wouldn't choose
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: either of them. I haven't. I have two things I have.
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: I have a joke about how Batman's the o g
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: funck Boy because because he's like, listen, I gotta be
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: a playboy billionaire during the day. It's part of my
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: cover up. It's my guys. And then Superman and Spiderman
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: are like we're in monogamous relationships and we're got a
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: newspaper what So I just think it's like it's like
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: she she doesn't pick the funk boy, and then it's
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: punished for it. And then and then also like I
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: think it's so funny, like not funny, but it's like ironic.
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: I don't know when she she's like blown up in
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: the middle of a sentence, like she gets interrupted. It's
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: more realistic by a bomb. Yeah, and then Harvey is
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: like screaming at her instead of hearing her last words,
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: like knowing you know what I mean. It's very emotional
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: that one. It's I feel Rachel. I think in general
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: deserves better. We do know what her job is. I
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: feel like it is almost used to just justify her
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: being around Harvey. Harvey and and by extension sort of Bruce,
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: because we don't really see her like do much for
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: her job. She's the assistant d A, so arguably she's
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: a villain to and then she's also fucking the d A, right,
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: which is appropriate. Yeah, yeah, well that's because like, so
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: we know what she does for a living. At least
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: we get that at least you know, and she's good
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: at it. I have no idea, but she was on
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: time when Harvey wasn't. Okay, so in that scene that
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: this is towards the beginning. In this scene, she's waiting
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: for this trial to begin there in the courtroom and
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: then like Harvey shows up and he's like, son, and
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: were you worried you might have to like do this
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: without me? And she's like, I know these briefs backwards
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: and he's like, well, I don't give a funk, I'm
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: gonna do it anyway. This is nice. He yeah, I
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: mean it's she There are moments that like but it's
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: like we don't really see that really come into play
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: very much like we see. It's nice to see her
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: be like, Okay, she is clearly good at her job,
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: but like that's never really plot relevant. The fact that
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: she's got at her job is and we still don't
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: really even see her do her job at any point.
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: It's like the bare minimum of like describing who she
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: is and where she is. I appreciate the gesture, but
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: I don't know. She could kind of do anything in
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: the movie wouldn't change us. And also this whole time,
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: this was the first time where I was like, and
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: someone I tweeted about something about Batman and someone was
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: just like, Oh, wouldn't it be better if like Batman
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: and Tony Stark simply paid their taxes. They would probably
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: be doing the world a lot more good if they
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: just didn't. I mean, they're probably getting huge tax breaks
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: because it's like all their corporations all that stuff. That's
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: like I used to think that, like Batman was my
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: favorite superhero too, but now I'm realizing he like sucks.
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: Like there's because there's so much discussion about like class
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: and poverty and how it's causing all this crime and Gotham.
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: This is happens a little bit more in Batman begins,
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: but it's like you're a gazillionaire if you just redistribute
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: your wealth instead of like cause playing as a bat
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: and like stopped cosplaying Halloween animals and do you and
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: pay your taxes? Are you guys looking to see an
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: action movie starring Bill Gates? I mean that's the hero
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: that we deserted. You saw that video of him. Have
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: you guys seen that video with him jumping over the
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: rolly chair. He could be a superhero. He might be harrd.
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: I have no idea. All billionaires are scary to me. Um,
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: but it does feel like a very like Batman could
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: not be written now and be such a sympathetic I
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: feel like with the comparison to Bill Gates, I think
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: he falls more into like Elon Musk's territory because he's
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: pushing like technology and stuff and so like as a
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: scientists an engergineer, I feel like because people were like, Elon,
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: why don't you just like fix flint instead of going
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: to space And I'm like, yeah, okay, don't throw your
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: car into space, that's just space trash, and don't throw
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: your fridge in a space got but will end up
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: in there. Yeah, don't fridge your fridge. Yeah wait, but
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna watch Bill Gates jump over this chair. But
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: but I feel like, you know, there's a need and
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: it doesn't have to be mutually exclusive for all these
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: things to happen. But let's watch Bill Gates. Oh my god,
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: so oh yo, he got jump. I would watch that movie.
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: We'll post that little YouTube clip on our Twitter. It's
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: a lot anyways. Yeah, I mean, it's it's I do.
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: I do mean it as like a joke, but just
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: like the idea of like presenting a billionaire as like
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: the superhero to end all other superheroes, it feels like
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: a very particular you know, there's a there's a time
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: where that like American dreaming stuff can succeed. And I
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: feel like, now it's maybe not that definitely. Also, did
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: anyone feel like Christian Bales Bruce Wayne is just Christian
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: Bale's Patrick Bateman. Like they act the exact same to me,
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: and they look the exact same because they're Christian Bale,
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: but like but he's I mean, they're even like dressed
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: and styled the same way, Like their hair is the same,
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: Like they look identical and they act identical. I was
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: thinking of the scene towards the beginning where he comes
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: in with like the ballerina and he's like, let's put
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: these tables together, and Harveard Dens like, I don't think
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: they'll allow us, and he's like they should. I own this,
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: and it's like, I feel like that is such a
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: Patrick Bateman thing. I don't know anyway, but I think, oh, yeah,
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: his character of Bruce Wayne. You're saying, yes, oh, I see, maybe. Yeah.
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: When he's Bruce Wayne, he is being Patrick Bateman. When
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: he's Batman, he's like yeah, but yeah, his his persane
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: to me read a lot like Patrick Bateman, but more
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: importantly and more relevant. Part of Bruce Wayne's persona when
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: he's not Batman and when he's like, you know, being
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: his whatever, regular self, part of that persona is to
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: treat women like objects. Yeah, you touched on this a
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: little bit already, but like he rolls into Harveydn's fundraiser
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: with like three women on his arm. The ballet has
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: to be canceled because he takes the entire like ballet
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: full of dancers onto his yacht. Although that ballet Areina
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: Natasha is my favorite character in the movie. She's smart.
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: I love what she was saying about Vigilantes is there
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: that that doesn't count because there were two dudes in there,
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: but like she is talking about that is that's when
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: two women meet. Like I don't know any other scene
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: where two women meet and talk. There's one other that
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: is wild. But yeah, that I liked. I liked it that.
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: I mean, she's in it for literally forty five seconds.
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: Someone was like, Natasha, are you the Prima? And then
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: she like but then Batman cuts her off, like you're
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: like she was talking, she gets in her everyone's getting
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: interrupted in this movie, all the women are, and then
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: she's clearly only there because Bruce Wayne brought her to
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: be like, see Rachel, I have a date too. I
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: go on dates. I have a girl. Lady of the Twisted.
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: She's cool and she's like Batman with the like everyone's like,
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: she's like, why are we relying on this like cosplayer
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: to save the world? And she like kind of criticizes
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: Harvey as the d a for counting on a Batman
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: to do his job for him, and you're like, oh, yeah,
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: outside of this world, that would seem very irrational. Um
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: so I just I was here for Natasha. I was
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: hoping she'd come back, but she did not know she didn't,
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: but shout out to her. Um. One last thing on
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: the fridging conversation. Gordon's his wife and children also get
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: damnse old and fridged, essentially by Harvey Dent at the end. Also,
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: Gordon's son gets is credited with the name Gordon's daughter
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: is not fun. That's because he said he loved her more.
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: That's the only reason he loved the boy more. And
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: so you're like, oh, so that's Jimmy cool upsetting, but yeah,
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: his his daughter is not credited even at the end
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: of the movie with a name, and she doesn't have
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: any lines. I think the little boy at least like
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: he asks about Batman when Batman runs away, um, and
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: then you can tell that it's going to be the
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: little kid that's excited about the superhero or whatever. But
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: the little girl was never like what the funk? Dad?
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: You love him more than me? Fuck you. That's not
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: going to haunt their relationships for decades. She's going to
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: have to go to a male fair based after this. Okay,
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: first of all, that hurts just a quick thing on
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: two face. Whenever he says, I make my own luck.
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: I'm like Jack Dawson Titan. Okay, well that's what cal
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: Hockley says, right, He's like, I make my own Yeah.
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: It's like, oh, I mean Aaron Eckhart, but what about
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: Billy Zane. Billy zane visibility is very low in this
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: extreme said an all time low. They don't even reference
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: him and Aaron eck cart Man. Aarona cart is so
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: weird because he can be so good in movies and
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: also so bad. Really he well, Frankenstein, you gotta check
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: out I Frankenstein. It's the movie of my life. It's
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: so much. It's he plays sexy Frankenstein. Well, I didn't
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: he do that in this movie too, which is I
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: patch him up. It's the opposite of it's even I mean,
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: he can play this exact role very well or terribly.
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: I think he did. I think he did a good
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: job of transitioning to like he played both characters pretty well.
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: I think that they didn't give him enough time to
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: like transition or whatever, but it like it still was
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: pretty good in this movie at least. I like his
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: performance in this movie a lot. Yeah, I just like
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: rewatching it this time. I was like they went too
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: overboard with his face, like what it looks like in
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: the comics. I don't know, I really like it, and
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: I like it because it also gives him that grim
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: like the Joker like and they all have like these
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: like smiles, permanent but scary ones. Yeah, but also like
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: in these movies, like superhero movies are supposed to be
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: like ridiculous, you know, like you go in like knowing
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: that fucking gravity doesn't work for Batman or that like
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: his face can be blown off and he'll still survive.
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: Like I guess, well, was it Tommy Lee Jones who
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: who plays two Face in the earlier Batman and like
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: he just has like a bunch of scars on his face.
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: I'm like, that is, you know, still a bit gruesome.
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: But you know, yeah, I liked I like that they
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: went all the way with it because I feel like
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: this is like gritty Batman. This is the grit gritty
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: shout out to queer and feminist icon gritty. Sure, but
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: this is like there and I feel like all movies
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: were trying to be like this for a while, where
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: they're like it's very dark read but this is this
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: is this is okay. With a lot of thoughts about this.
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: This is exactly what Batman the Animated Series did. Like
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: this is how it shifted Batman and all of these
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: other superhero things that tried to emulate them after Batman
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: the Animated series, like the even the way that they
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: like animated it was on like ar paper and they's
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: like painted light on top of that, and it was
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: like the grittiness that came in. So after the animated
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: series is when all of these things shifted. Before it
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: was like more silly. There was nipples on the suit,
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: which I but and then like Batman the Animated Series
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: was also responsible for the two voices of Batman Kevin
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: Connelly or whatever. Yeah, and for like like the crazy
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: laugh and yeah, and then all of these other superhero
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: movies were like we're going to make this darker now,
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: got it? Yeah? Alright, good to know, except for like
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: the Flash is still fun just like I just go
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: real fast. But like in every movie here, I mean,
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: in this movie it works super well. Like it it
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: makes sense that every superhero movie was trying to be
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: this for a while. And shout out to Hans Zimmer
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: for the soundtrack. What a good score. It's such a
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: good score. We got to take a quick break, but
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: we will come right back. We're back. Yeah, there's a
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: few other female characters in this movie. There are well,
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: can we talk about Ramirez? But I also want to
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: talk about the representation of people of color in this
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: movie because I think that will kind of nicely transition
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: because the only people of color in the movie are
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: bad guys, criminals, people in the mob, villains, or people
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: who have been incarcerated. There were there was a cop
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: that was killed. Oh oh, the commissioner. No, no, there
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: was a cop that was like, hey, what are you
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: doing here? And then he got shot in the face
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: by Joker. There's that one. Come on, There's like there's
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: a couple law enforcement officers too. Of course, there's also
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: Morgan Freeman, who is an ally to Bruce Wayne and Batman,
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: I mean ally to a billionaire. Love it because he
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: was like, he had some ethics. Definitely, he did hate
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: the n S A machine, so that was good. But
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: he is on the list of bad people I r L,
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: which we will get to. Um fuk, I forget all
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: of them. There's too many, so hard to keep jack
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: of um. But the majority of people of color, you
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: see in the movie are framed as being bad guys.
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: And then one of the other female characters that we
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: get to meet is Detective Ramirez. She seems good, she
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: seems like a good person, but then she turns out
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: to be traitors because she sold out Rachel to the
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: Joker in his Goons. She is, I mean, and again
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: it's like, we don't have really the context of how
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: this character is portrayed in the comics books. And I
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: think she is in the comic books. Yeah, that's hard.
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: The main thing with Ramire says like it took They
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: don't say her name until she's been on screen a
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: couple of times, and so that was I don't I mean,
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: she's probably in Batman Begins as well, but I'm like,
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: I have no fucking clue what this character's name is.
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: And then it's like the third or fourth time she's
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: in the movie for a couple of seconds, someone says,
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: this is Anna Ramirez. You're like, oh, great, thank you.
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: I appreciate that. I mean, she ended up being duplicit as.
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: And one of the times that this movie sort of
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: passes the vital test is when Anna Ramirez is like
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: being she's being held at gunpoint by Aaron at Card
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: and she calls his wife. It's a mind funk of
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: a pass. Yeah, she's being held at gunpoint by Aaron
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: at Card, but it does take a good pass. Uh yeah.
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: But she's talking about Oh, she's just trying to get
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: them out of the house or whatever. She has called
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: um Barbara who is named Gordon, Um, Gordon's wife. Um. Yeah.
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: Ramires is like, oh, you gotta get away. We can't
• 41:46
  Speaker 1: trust those cops go to this address, blah blah. So
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: although she she keeps saying like, he wants you to
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: do this, he wants you to go here. So yeah
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: about Gordon, Yeah yeah, I had I had one two
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: line exchange in that conversation passing. But either way, it's
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: a wild It's it's a wild reveal that you're like, oh,
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: she's being held at gunpoint, right, I don't know if
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: this happens in the comic books at very least appreciated
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: that her betrayal is not irrational and there is a
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: reason that she's doing it. We like learned that her
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: mother is sick in the hospital and she's given her
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: little trolley choice of like do I save my mother
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: or do I kind of sell out this family. So
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: at very least I feel like she's not so underwritten
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: that you're just like, oh, she's just bad, like you
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: do understand why she's motivating. Yeah, but it still means
• 42:38
  Speaker 1: that the I think the one woman of color in
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: the entire movie is made to be presented in such
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: a way where the audience then hates her. Well, you
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: don't hate her that, right, it's but not a not
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: a ethical person in the way that all these men
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: who have to like stand up for what they believe
• 42:58
  Speaker 1: in our right and make the right decision. Yeah, I
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: don't know. I mean, yeah, there's definitely I mean again
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: a Christopher Noland things just like they're they're very white movies,
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: and so when people of color are portrayed in certain ways,
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: it's like there's no one really to compare it to.
• 43:14
  Speaker 1: And but it's interesting because like at so many points
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: in this movie, the jokers like make a decision, picked
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: the person you want to kill, right, and she had
• 43:22
  Speaker 1: that choice too with her mom versus uh like everybody
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: else basically. But it's interesting that like right before that,
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: the convict like through the thing out the window because
• 43:30
  Speaker 1: he was a person of color who also had the
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: decision where like he would be killed, um, and so
• 43:35
  Speaker 1: it's like it's it also is like a power play,
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: like with convicts versus you know, police officers and like
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: class stuff. So I think like at least they have that,
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: that's true. I mean the on the two ferries, we
• 43:48
  Speaker 1: have the like all the incarcerated people, and like the
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: guy who's like, I'm gonna do what why would you
• 43:52
  Speaker 1: should have done ten minutes ago? And he throws the
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: detonator out the window. And then meanwhile on each other
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: book takes it from a white police police officer. So
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: the police officer gave it to him thinking that he
• 44:02
  Speaker 1: was going to blow up the other boat. And you
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: see the failure in the police officers ethics and the
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: rise of this convicts, right. And then on the other
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: boat is all the civilians and then there's like one
• 44:13
  Speaker 1: white guy in particular who's like, let's kill him. They
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: made their choice, their murderers. And then even he can't
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: go through with it, but like and then everyone around
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: him is disappointed that he can't go through with it.
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: But everyone on the convicts boat, like the group of
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: people he's like friends with or whatever, like go to
• 44:29
  Speaker 1: protect him. Like if you see he like walks back
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: and then like all of his black friends like surround
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: him and are like, yeah, this is it. My theory
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: is that everyone on the civilian boat is actually like
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: guilty of insider trading, but they've never been like convicted.
• 44:44
  Speaker 1: And then everyone on the like boat of incarcerated people
• 44:48
  Speaker 1: are in jail for like yeah, they were like a
• 44:52
  Speaker 1: marijuana charge. Yeah, and they're all actually non violent offenders.
• 44:56
  Speaker 1: That's not necessarily a theory, probably not accurate, especially given
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: their facial reactions, but they didn't kill a bunch of people.
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: I yeah, I I feel like that that scene does
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: part of what I like about this movie well, where
• 45:12
  Speaker 1: it's just kind of like a very comic bookie like
• 45:15
  Speaker 1: who is good and who isn't? What is good? What
• 45:17
  Speaker 1: is bad? And like people who are put in certain
• 45:19
  Speaker 1: boxes aren't actually that. And I mean it's definitely like
• 45:23
  Speaker 1: a very egregious example. But I don't know, I always
• 45:27
  Speaker 1: like that scene too. Um, but there should I mean,
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: there should be more people of color in this franchise
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: and seen in different roles. I totally agree. There's, um,
• 45:37
  Speaker 1: there is another woman in this in the in this
• 45:39
  Speaker 1: movie that we didn't mention, and she is the one
• 45:42
  Speaker 1: who's having sex in his bedroom with that man while
• 45:45
  Speaker 1: he goes into his safe room, and she's like, are
• 45:47
  Speaker 1: you kidding me? When she goes down at the fundraising
• 45:51
  Speaker 1: party and she's putting her blast back on as we
• 45:53
  Speaker 1: all normally do, very carefully buttoning the shirt. Oh, I
• 45:56
  Speaker 1: can't leave a room unless just so wrinkled at all.
• 46:01
  Speaker 1: A sex positive icon. Truly, in this movie, there is
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: a young woman an old man. Well, if we bring
• 46:08
  Speaker 1: up her, we also have to bring up the woman
• 46:11
  Speaker 1: who I think his name is, like Salvatore Maroney. He's
• 46:15
  Speaker 1: in a nightclub with this woman and she's like, can
• 46:17
  Speaker 1: we go somewhere else? We can't hear each other talk?
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: And then he's like, what do you think I want
• 46:21
  Speaker 1: to hear you talk? Like feminist icon Maroni Salva. This
• 46:27
  Speaker 1: is what we get to choose from of the female
• 46:29
  Speaker 1: characters in the film, and I think we picked Natasha.
• 46:33
  Speaker 1: I think Natasha is the best one. She should have
• 46:35
  Speaker 1: been seen more, and we briefly so. We mentioned Barbara
• 46:39
  Speaker 1: Gordon a couple of times, but she only really exists
• 46:41
  Speaker 1: in relation to her husband. We see her primarily doing
• 46:46
  Speaker 1: mother stuff and being damseled. And I think Barbara is
• 46:50
  Speaker 1: also the name of the wife. And the rock yeah
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: is on the grave. Yeah. Wild. The list of disgraced men,
• 47:04
  Speaker 1: I'll just go through quickly. I also but they were
• 47:07
  Speaker 1: all just like it was out at AFT post. This
• 47:10
  Speaker 1: is a post, so we didn't know at the time,
• 47:12
  Speaker 1: but Christians, Yeah, what a Christian bality. He was arrested
• 47:17
  Speaker 1: for assault following a dispute between him and his mother
• 47:21
  Speaker 1: and sister. Yeah. I was trying to read up on this.
• 47:25
  Speaker 1: The details seem murky. I don't quite know enough to
• 47:29
  Speaker 1: He's denied, I mean, he denied the allegations, and it
• 47:33
  Speaker 1: seems like they were kind of dropped, which for me
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: never necessarily means that that is any reflections. Right, So
• 47:39
  Speaker 1: it was from his mother and sister that okay. And
• 47:43
  Speaker 1: he's also been known to have outbursts on set a
• 47:46
  Speaker 1: lot and yeah, and on stage with that accent crazy
• 47:50
  Speaker 1: put that away Christians. How we never figured out how
• 47:54
  Speaker 1: to act less Cockney. I don't know. The ultimate twists, Yeah,
• 47:59
  Speaker 1: I was that he's in film for so long and
• 48:02
  Speaker 1: none of us fully understood what he's because he's almost
• 48:05
  Speaker 1: always doing an American accent or like a more posh
• 48:09
  Speaker 1: British accent, and then yeah he accent in real life.
• 48:11
  Speaker 1: You're like, oh my, this man hasn't received enough awards, right,
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: that's for the takeaway. Um, we've got Michael Caine who
• 48:19
  Speaker 1: loves Brexit whath Okay, but he's not so he's just
• 48:25
  Speaker 1: an idiot. Then he's just too rich for his own good.
• 48:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah okay, but he's not like a malicious idiot. I
• 48:33
  Speaker 1: mean I would argue that anyone who's like in full
• 48:35
  Speaker 1: support of Brexit is like a bad person. Well I think,
• 48:40
  Speaker 1: like I'm like inherently racist, and you know, well I
• 48:44
  Speaker 1: put them in like different categories and like assault and
• 48:47
  Speaker 1: like these Yeah, I mean speaking of Gary oldman assaulted
• 48:53
  Speaker 1: his wife. I forget what year that was, but that
• 48:56
  Speaker 1: came to light. That came out right before he won
• 49:00
  Speaker 1: an oscar anyways, So really a wash for Gary. And
• 49:04
  Speaker 1: then Morgan Freeman made many many unwanted sexual advances and
• 49:08
  Speaker 1: remarks towards many women on different sets. And then he
• 49:13
  Speaker 1: also had a weird thing with his like stepdaughter or
• 49:16
  Speaker 1: someone who was in his family. Oh that one I
• 49:19
  Speaker 1: don't know about. Again, it's so hard to keep track
• 49:21
  Speaker 1: of all the horrible men and all of their horrible
• 49:25
  Speaker 1: misdeeds and it's exhausting, it so weird. Yeah, and this
• 49:30
  Speaker 1: is just a side fact about Christian Bale that I
• 49:33
  Speaker 1: learned today that he at one point was Glorious Steynham's stepson.
• 49:38
  Speaker 1: Oh so he's a feminist. Wait he was her stepson,
• 49:44
  Speaker 1: and but his real mom and his sisters who he right,
• 49:48
  Speaker 1: he did not. I think that more people would know
• 49:50
  Speaker 1: if he assaulted Glorious. And and also, I mean it's
• 49:54
  Speaker 1: worth saying that all of these men are still working
• 49:57
  Speaker 1: and are doing just fine. Yes, so make of that
• 50:01
  Speaker 1: what you will. This movie was as Heath. We barely
• 50:06
  Speaker 1: talked about Heath. I mean, just they're fantastic and complain
• 50:11
  Speaker 1: nothing's come out, nothing's come as far as we know,
• 50:14
  Speaker 1: a terrific guy. I wanted to touch briefly on how
• 50:18
  Speaker 1: mental illness is demonized in this movie. I mean, the
• 50:22
  Speaker 1: Joker's character in a nutshell, but but Batman stands up
• 50:27
  Speaker 1: for it, right. He was like, that guy's a schizophrenic
• 50:30
  Speaker 1: and you wanted to hurt him? Yes, that's about one line,
• 50:34
  Speaker 1: and then everybody else is crazy. Yeah. So one of
• 50:37
  Speaker 1: Joker's goons is described as being a paranoid, schizophrenic, the
• 50:42
  Speaker 1: kind of mind that Joker attracts. So I don't know
• 50:45
  Speaker 1: if it's even in defense of that man or like
• 50:48
  Speaker 1: saying like you shouldn't you know, just trying to Sorry,
• 50:52
  Speaker 1: I keep interrupting. Go on that feminist podcast Masculine Energy.
• 51:00
  Speaker 1: She was like, you're like an an alpha guy girl.
• 51:02
  Speaker 1: I mean, girl, It's like, okay, that is a free session, right,
• 51:08
  Speaker 1: But I think he stopped someone from hurting. Yes, he
• 51:12
  Speaker 1: stops Dent from shooting him, right. I mean for me,
• 51:17
  Speaker 1: it's there's so many like overly serious, toxic male tropes
• 51:22
  Speaker 1: that are given power in this movie. It comes down
• 51:26
  Speaker 1: to kind of an adaptation issue for me, where it's
• 51:30
  Speaker 1: like we have like the idea of asylums in this
• 51:34
  Speaker 1: world are like super stigmatized, and I feel like they
• 51:37
  Speaker 1: are in a lot of comic book universe. Is this
• 51:40
  Speaker 1: is something that it isn't really improved upon in this movie,
• 51:45
  Speaker 1: which I think that the only thing it does is
• 51:49
  Speaker 1: present the Joker as complicated, more complicated and is to
• 51:54
  Speaker 1: an extent multifaceted, and we know that he is in
• 51:59
  Speaker 1: pain from enduring being stigmatized, and there is that. I
• 52:05
  Speaker 1: don't think it really goes far enough. I think that well,
• 52:09
  Speaker 1: since they name this specific illness paranoid schizophrenia, and then
• 52:15
  Speaker 1: because that's like the one specific representation we have of
• 52:17
  Speaker 1: mental illness in this movie, and then having that character
• 52:21
  Speaker 1: who has that illness end up being a villain and
• 52:24
  Speaker 1: a bad guy like that who needs to die, that
• 52:27
  Speaker 1: does a lot of harm. And to say like, oh,
• 52:31
  Speaker 1: it's the kind of mind that Joker attracts, which means apparently,
• 52:34
  Speaker 1: then Joker goes after a lot of different people with
• 52:37
  Speaker 1: maybe an array of mental illnesses, and that means that
• 52:40
  Speaker 1: all of those people with mental illnesses are demonized too,
• 52:42
  Speaker 1: because they're all guys. I think in general, like, um,
• 52:46
  Speaker 1: this is an issue I love like superhero comic books, movies, everything,
• 52:50
  Speaker 1: but like this is an issue in general, is like
• 52:53
  Speaker 1: mental illness. And then also like I hate the way
• 52:55
  Speaker 1: scientists are portrayed because they're often like the same thing.
• 52:58
  Speaker 1: It's like the mad scientist. Like there's never any like
• 53:01
  Speaker 1: good engineers other than like Batman and iron Man, right,
• 53:04
  Speaker 1: like so I'm like, we're not all fucking crazy, Like
• 53:07
  Speaker 1: we're not. And I think they often couple those things together,
• 53:10
  Speaker 1: like the most brilliant minds who are villainized. Are these
• 53:13
  Speaker 1: like mad scientists type people like Scarecrow developed this technology,
• 53:17
  Speaker 1: but he's like using it for evil, you know. So
• 53:20
  Speaker 1: I think that's like those are two things that in
• 53:22
  Speaker 1: general all comic books have an issue with. Usually I
• 53:26
  Speaker 1: talked about different movies where like especially women in STEM
• 53:30
  Speaker 1: are demonized, or like women in STEM adjacent whether witches.
• 53:36
  Speaker 1: It's like a false attempt to empower them, um and
• 53:39
  Speaker 1: be like, see, our women are more complicated, but then
• 53:41
  Speaker 1: it's like they're just evil. They can be like smart
• 53:44
  Speaker 1: and also caring and whatever. There's and I feel like,
• 53:48
  Speaker 1: speaking to the mental illness conversation, I think that schizophrenia
• 53:52
  Speaker 1: is like kind of disproportionately attacked in movies as seeming
• 53:57
  Speaker 1: like truly like you cannot possibly function in societ. I
• 54:00
  Speaker 1: d um. Bipolar is also a common thing. I feel
• 54:03
  Speaker 1: like that's kind of invoked more in slasher movies of
• 54:07
  Speaker 1: like they're so two face and they can't blah blah blah.
• 54:10
  Speaker 1: And to all my bi hooler heads out there, we're
• 54:13
  Speaker 1: we're cool, we're chill, we're fun to be around. We
• 54:15
  Speaker 1: need a manic superhero, right like there needs someone that's
• 54:20
  Speaker 1: like I'm gonna go solve cry today, and then I
• 54:22
  Speaker 1: think there's a different read of the Joker that it
• 54:24
  Speaker 1: is just sort of really empathizing with like a misunderstood
• 54:29
  Speaker 1: white guy who descends into violence. Um, even putting the
• 54:32
  Speaker 1: mental illness conversation aside, Like, I like that he is
• 54:36
  Speaker 1: made to be a complicated character by that movie. I
• 54:38
  Speaker 1: think there's like a lot of interesting things to be
• 54:41
  Speaker 1: said about that. But like, ultimately, if you're not reading
• 54:44
  Speaker 1: it as an attack on mental illness, he's a misunderstood
• 54:48
  Speaker 1: white guy who kills people, and that is you know,
• 54:51
  Speaker 1: that's not nothing that exactly. I don't know. He was
• 54:55
  Speaker 1: always kind of eccentric, right, right, But no one, I
• 54:59
  Speaker 1: don't think anyone in this movie called him a terrorist.
• 55:02
  Speaker 1: But that is what he is. He's a terror But
• 55:06
  Speaker 1: because he's a white guy, no one's using that language.
• 55:08
  Speaker 1: They never said terrorizing the city. Usually they use that
• 55:11
  Speaker 1: they might, but they didn't call him specifically a terrorist.
• 55:14
  Speaker 1: I do not think because I don't think of terror
• 55:17
  Speaker 1: I mean, I know that they're pulled from the same
• 55:19
  Speaker 1: root word, but I don't think of someone saying, like
• 55:21
  Speaker 1: you're terrorizing the city as terrorists. But did they do
• 55:25
  Speaker 1: that with like people of color in these comic books.
• 55:28
  Speaker 1: I feel like they well, I don't know. I think
• 55:30
  Speaker 1: the villains are almost always white men, So I don't know,
• 55:35
  Speaker 1: at least there's that at least you're not getting called
• 55:38
  Speaker 1: in to be like terrorists in a Marvel movie. That's like,
• 55:42
  Speaker 1: at least we're just not in the Marvel movie. But
• 55:46
  Speaker 1: I think when you do have like a you know,
• 55:49
  Speaker 1: mental illness conversation aside a white male terrorist, you know,
• 55:52
  Speaker 1: I think that they go further into justifying his actions
• 55:56
  Speaker 1: and giving a context then you probably would if the
• 55:59
  Speaker 1: villain were a person of color. It's the Yeah, it's
• 56:02
  Speaker 1: definitely now that we're talking about it this way. And
• 56:05
  Speaker 1: he's just like the outside character that people that Dent chooses,
• 56:09
  Speaker 1: the Dent is convinced by because he's tired of the system.
• 56:13
  Speaker 1: That's Trump. That's like, that's like that chaos and unknown
• 56:18
  Speaker 1: than anything else that's Trump. Yeah, Harvey Dent drained the swamp. Yeah,
• 56:23
  Speaker 1: And there's I mean, and then and we can talk
• 56:25
  Speaker 1: all day about like Batman doesn't never processed his trauma.
• 56:28
  Speaker 1: He'd rather dress up like a bat than deal with
• 56:30
  Speaker 1: the death of his parents. I don't want to talk
• 56:32
  Speaker 1: about it. I'm gonna go where my breath costume. You're like,
• 56:36
  Speaker 1: all right, I think like I identify with him because
• 56:39
  Speaker 1: a lot of my depression, Like people can't tell when
• 56:41
  Speaker 1: I'm depressed, because I just work harder. Oh I love yeah,
• 56:45
  Speaker 1: high functioning, Yeah, high functioning. So it's like I just
• 56:48
  Speaker 1: pour everything into like being a robot basically. So I
• 56:52
  Speaker 1: think that's probably why I like him. Alt. Does anyone
• 56:55
  Speaker 1: have any final points about the movie. I just want
• 56:59
  Speaker 1: to Natasha movie. Oh the Ballerina, Well that brings us
• 57:03
  Speaker 1: to I mean, we've already talked quite a bit about this,
• 57:05
  Speaker 1: but does this movie pass the Bechdel test? Yeah? I
• 57:10
  Speaker 1: guess it would be Ramirez talking to Barbara with that
• 57:13
  Speaker 1: tow line exchange because she's like, those cops can't be trusted,
• 57:16
  Speaker 1: go to two D fifty something Street, but she's technically
• 57:22
  Speaker 1: talking about her protecting her daughter and sons. You're like, oh,
• 57:26
  Speaker 1: you can kind of see it. But I felt like
• 57:29
  Speaker 1: that did pass, and it was an insane past because
• 57:32
  Speaker 1: she's being held at gunpoint by a man while it's happening.
• 57:34
  Speaker 1: That's also how Christopher Nolan put it in the movie,
• 57:38
  Speaker 1: like fine, I'll do it, like I'm a feminist. And
• 57:42
  Speaker 1: then the other conversation where women are even in the
• 57:46
  Speaker 1: same scene together, which hardly happens, but Rachel says to Natasha, Natasha,
• 57:52
  Speaker 1: are you the Prima? And then Bruce interrupts and says
• 57:55
  Speaker 1: Prima ballerina for the Moscow Ballet, So they don't even
• 57:57
  Speaker 1: get to talk to each other because Bruce Wayne Enter
• 58:00
  Speaker 1: erupts a woman. Yeah. So, um, a great movie. I
• 58:07
  Speaker 1: still did enjoy it. It's a good movie. Uh, I'm
• 58:11
  Speaker 1: glad that. I mean, it does sort of in context.
• 58:13
  Speaker 1: It gives me a little bit of relief to know
• 58:15
  Speaker 1: that Christopher Nolan got this note eventually to like, please
• 58:19
  Speaker 1: stop fridging women as the center of the plot of
• 58:23
  Speaker 1: every single one of your movies. Um, it is nice
• 58:26
  Speaker 1: to see progress, you know, because in spite of everyone's efforts,
• 58:30
  Speaker 1: men are not going to simply disappear. So having them
• 58:32
  Speaker 1: be allies to women, uh in their work is always encouraging. Yes,
• 58:37
  Speaker 1: all right, let's write it on our nipple scale, where
• 58:40
  Speaker 1: we use a scale of zero to five nipples based
• 58:43
  Speaker 1: on its representation and treatment of women. I'll give I mean,
• 58:52
  Speaker 1: it's basically a zero, right, it might be a point
• 58:54
  Speaker 1: five five for Natasha. I think I like didn't notice
• 58:59
  Speaker 1: how how bad it was growing up because we were
• 59:02
  Speaker 1: just fucking used to it exactly, and so like it
• 59:05
  Speaker 1: doesn't take away from how much I enjoy it as
• 59:07
  Speaker 1: just a movie. But I'm just like, damn, at least
• 59:10
  Speaker 1: now we like like now we have movies where it
• 59:13
  Speaker 1: like we are fulfilled, you know, like we have things
• 59:16
  Speaker 1: that are happening right now. But it really like pales
• 59:19
  Speaker 1: in comparison when you compare, Like I was just like
• 59:22
  Speaker 1: there are no I was searching for the women they're
• 59:26
  Speaker 1: barely around and that long of a movie, and just
• 59:29
  Speaker 1: like knowing that, you know, when this movie came out,
• 59:32
  Speaker 1: it was not something that registered for us. You just
• 59:35
  Speaker 1: don't think we weren't looking for it, You weren't expected,
• 59:38
  Speaker 1: like you wouldn't expect it in a movie of this genre,
• 59:41
  Speaker 1: especially um so, so yeah, I'll give it a half
• 59:46
  Speaker 1: a nipple for Natasha being like an intellectual and like
• 59:52
  Speaker 1: just cool. She's just like or just governed dummy. But
• 59:58
  Speaker 1: other than that, I mean between all the the fridging,
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 1: the us barely getting to know the Rachel character, not
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 1: letting us see her do her job, you know, all
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 1: that stuff, this movie I would say it's not like
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 1: outwardly contemptuous of women. It just doesn't care about having
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 1: them be in the movie and it doesn't make them
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 1: like there are a lot of like superhero movies where
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 1: the women are like unlikable in Damsel in Distress, like
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 1: even more like they're just literally there to fuck. So
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 1: I feel like, at least it's not that I've been
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 1: saying at least a lot today, it's just sitting here
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 1: justifying this bullshit or it's still a good movie. And
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 1: so we're like, yeah, but I'll give my half nipple
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 1: to Natasha. How many nipples does a bat have? I
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 1: wonder anyway, not important to Yah, that's true. Schumacher canon
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 1: says to I'm going to do a half to the
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 1: same reasons, especially because Rachel was written in for the
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 1: movie that you can't even get an adaptation problem. You're
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 1: just like, come on, and it was written by Jonathan
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 1: and Christopher Nolan. Most of those movies are and I'm
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 1: just like, we get it. You want to kill your wife,
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 1: like whatever. There there, it's lazy writing. This is a
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 1: stand up equivalent of like, my wife's a bit. We
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 1: just create these characters to kill like, Okay, maybe go
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 1: to counseling. Can't even trust her with my fake death.
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 1: I would be very like if I were Christopher Nolan's wife,
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 1: I'd be like do we need to talk? Like what
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 1: did I do to you? Anyways? Yeah, just kind of
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 1: like lazy writing and exclusion of women on the whole.
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 1: But I like Natasha have nipple. Give it to Natasha?
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 1: Why not same? I would say same. I will say
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 1: now that like, as we're discussing this, I realized, like
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 1: when I watched the movie, my least favorite part of
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 1: it was Rachel And I think it's because I couldn't
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 1: take anything from Cannon and like apply it to her character.
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 1: Like I couldn't just a by anything because she was
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 1: and and I was like, who is this bitch? And
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 1: like why is it like this? I don't like her
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 1: character as much as I want to have humorless killed joy.
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 1: I also think we'll all inconsistent because she's like she's
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 1: like I'm on time, like I do this stuff. But
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 1: then it's like, you know, she's like inconsistent, wavering between them,
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 1: and then like isn't as strong as you want her.
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 1: She's like just wavering the whole time. Like Lakey and
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 1: you're like, who is They don't know and they didn't
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 1: like because she's not a character in the comic books,
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 1: you can't just apply that knowledge to her. And I
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 1: also just remember from the press surrounding this movie, it
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 1: almost reminds me of like a Sarah Jessica Parker, Like
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 1: how just Sarah Jessica Parker was treated during Sex in
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 1: the City, where Maggie Gillenhall was not perceived as attractive
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 1: enough to be a romantic lead. There is a lot
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 1: I mean, if you go back to Oh, I've got
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 1: some receipts on it, I mean, there's a lot of
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 1: really gendered pointed conversation about how people didn't find her
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 1: hot enough to be in this movie. So it's just
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 1: you know, we've we've grown. Maggie jillan Halls always been hot.
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 1: Let's relax, Um half nipples across the board. Paula V.
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much for being here. Thanks for having
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 1: on the show. What would you like to plug? I
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 1: co produced Facial Recognition Comedy, which is on the second
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 1: Sunday every month at Wesside Comedy Theater in Santa Monica,
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 1: and we also have a podcast. Um that's released every Tuesday.
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 1: And then I also run a show called Oversharing Comedy
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 1: in Boomtown Brewery and that's bi weekly, so every two
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 1: weeks on Thursdays. Um. And it's over Sharing Comedy on
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 1: like Instagram. Um. And then should I give my social
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 1: yes please? Okay. My socials are get out of pen
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 1: P A L L A V I g U and
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 1: A L A. And that's my full name. That's my
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 1: website on my Instagram, my Facebook, my Twitter. Awesome. Oh
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 1: and I also started a Dirty Science web series on
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 1: YouTube and Instagram. What's it called Dirty Science? But it's
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 1: just like on my Instagram and then on my YouTube
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 1: which is YouTube dot com slash probably been all in comedy.
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 1: I talk about different science topics that interest me and
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 1: we're like, I talk about why things are the way
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 1: they are through a scientific lens. But it's also like
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 1: for adults, so I like swear and talk about sex
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 1: and stuff. Hell yeah, hell yeah, awesome, yes, check out
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 1: all of that stuff. You can check us out on Twitter, Instagram,
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 1: Facebook at bechtel Cast. You can go to our website
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 1: becktel cast dot com, check out our Patreon dot com.
• 1:04:18
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• 1:04:20
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• 1:04:24
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• 1:04:27
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• 1:04:31
  Speaker 1: slash the Bechtel Cast, and as always, we'll see you
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 1: next time. Why So Serious By