Latest / All Figured Out with Andrea Barr: Figuring Out Work, Life and Parenting / 107. Nonprofit work, co-parenting, and career pivots with Amanda Sayfy

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107. Nonprofit work, co-parenting, and career pivots with Amanda Sayfy · All Figured Out with Andrea Barr: Figuring Out Work, Life and Parenting

0:00
Welcome back to All Figured Out. Today's guest is somebody I have
0:04
been really excited to speak with for a few months now.
0:07
I met Amanda Safe, my guest at an intimate, really lovely event
0:11
here in Vancouver where she was on a panel and I remember
0:14
instantly thinking I need to speak with her and I need to
0:18
record it on the podcast. She's just one of those people
0:21
who radiates grounded leadership, wisdom, honesty in
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such a refreshing way. She's such an old soul and she's
0:29
a mom of an 8 year old boy. She, I'm so appreciative of her
0:33
coming on and just opening up in the way that she did.
0:35
She is the executive director of Dress for Success Vancouver.
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She spent over 20 years in the nonprofit world.
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Like I said, she's a mom, she's a community builder and she is
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somebody who has navigated her own way through personal and
0:49
professional transitions with a lot of heart and a lot of
0:53
resilience, which is a big theme of the conversation today.
0:56
In this conversation, you can look forward to us talking about
0:59
what it really looks like to rebuild when life shifts.
1:02
She herself experienced A separation and what it looks
1:06
like to be a coparent identity change and, you know, just
1:10
parenting in general. And she's super honest about her
1:12
experience. And again, super appreciative
1:14
for her for sharing this conversation.
1:17
You know, sharing that in this conversation because I think
1:18
it's something that's just not talked about enough.
1:21
We also discuss discuss her being privileged to work with
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Dress for Success Vancouver, given the opportunity to support
1:28
other women navigating challenging transitions and
1:30
change. We talked about the impact of
1:33
dignity and mentorship and community, especially when
1:36
you're at the crossroads. And the big one, we talk about
1:40
just gender equity and why it is not just women's work alone.
1:45
We go all over the place. I asked her I think 3 different
1:48
times, what is the device that you give to someone here,
1:51
someone there? And she gives her honest, honest
1:55
and loving opinion and feedback. So if you're in the middle of a
1:59
transition or you know somebody who is, or you know that
2:02
transition and change will happen in life because it will,
2:06
this one is for you. So let's get into it.
2:10
You're listening to the All Figured Out podcast.
2:13
I'm your host, Andrea Barr. I'm a career coach for parents,
2:18
mom of two, and a self-proclaimed expert at
2:21
winging it. After 10 years in the corporate
2:23
world, two major career pivots, and navigating life with kids,
2:27
I've learned one thing. No parent has it all figured
2:30
out, and that's OK. Here, we're all about growing
2:34
personally and professionally while keeping family time
2:37
sacred. You'll get practical tips,
2:39
career strategies and musings on life, plus guest experts to help
2:43
us fill in the gaps. So grab a coffee or hide in your
2:46
car for some me time. We're about to figure out this
2:49
work life and parenting stuff out together.
2:54
Amanda Safety, thank you so much for coming on the All Figured
2:57
Out podcast. Oh, it's my pleasure.
2:59
Thanks for having me. I am so excited to have this
3:03
conversation. It's been a while since we first
3:04
connected. A couple months ago.
3:06
We were at a wonderful event, which is an event that has been
3:10
the most fruitful event I have attended where there was maybe
3:16
20-30 people there and I just had some of the most beautiful
3:18
conversations. You were on the panel and I
3:21
remember thinking, damn, I need to speak with that woman.
3:24
She is, she's got it going on. So thank you so much for taking
3:27
the time to be here. I know you're a busy lady.
3:29
You run a massive organization that does such great work here
3:32
in Vancouver and I'm really excited to dive in to hear about
3:36
you, about your story, about your work in the nonprofit world
3:39
and about the clients that you support in at Dress for Success
3:43
Vancouver. And let's just dive in.
3:46
I want to hear your journey in. You have been in the nonprofit
3:49
world for over 20 years. You have a son who is 8 years
3:53
old. You are the executive director
3:55
for Dress for like you have got a big life, a big history.
3:59
What would you say was kind of the the turning point really,
4:02
really set you on this trajectory in this world of
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nonprofit work? Ah, that's it.
4:07
That's a good question. Um, I, I do wear a lot of
4:11
different hats just like any parent does, right?
4:14
And at any given time, you know, there may be more or less going
4:18
on in my life, but I, when I look at my professional journey,
4:23
I feel really grateful to have landed where I have at this
4:26
point. So getting into the nonprofit
4:29
sector felt like a pretty organic journey for me.
4:33
I was really fortunate to be part of a student group at UBC
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that did a lot of volunteering and fundraising.
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And that was kind of my first exposure to the sector and the
4:43
realization that it could actually be a career, right?
4:46
That professionalized fundraisers, you know, could
4:52
make a living and make that difference in the world in their
4:55
nine to five, or let's be real, a little bit longer than 9 to 5
4:59
for most nonprofit professionals.
5:00
But, you know, it was kind of through that volunteerism
5:04
originally that I saw the possibility for it.
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And so after working in event and conference management a
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little bit after university, I was given the incredible
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opportunity to work with BC Children's Hospital Foundation.
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And it was with that organization that I was able to
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to grow and to learn and continue to carve my path in the
5:26
sector. And for those who are listening,
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who have I I didn't even think to ask you this question, but
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it's just coming to mind for those who might be considering
5:35
getting into nonprofit, say mid career.
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You know, there's a lot of people I work with as a career
5:40
coach for parents predominantly who are they say that thing that
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we hear a lot. We've all felt it probably where
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you're like, if I'm going to leave my kids to go do work for
5:49
someone else, it better be worth it.
5:51
It better be doing something in the world and or bring in a good
5:55
living wage. You know, these things we really
5:56
start to think about. And for someone who's who's
6:00
thinking about going into nonprofit, I'm going to be
6:01
honest. There's people who I know who
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have coached, who have shared their concerns about that space
6:07
around how hard you work, how sometimes thankless it can feel.
6:10
These are big generalizations, but what would you say to that
6:13
person who might be thinking about pursuing this beautiful
6:16
career, but who has hesitations, reservations.
6:18
Yeah, that is an interesting observation and I can absolutely
6:23
understand where it's coming from.
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I think that the sector though has had no choice but to come
6:28
along with the rest of the labour market when it comes to
6:33
finding opportunities for work life balance and and realizing
6:38
that with different generations coming up, there are better
6:42
boundaries and people are looking for different things in
6:44
their employer, in their employment.
6:46
So I don't think that it's a sector of bleeding hearts who
6:50
are willing to work for nothing and be worked to the bone
6:52
anymore, right? I think there's a certain level
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of burnout in every single sector.
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I think that when you care for the cause that you are working
7:02
for, sometimes it prompts people to push themselves that much
7:05
harder. But I do think that there is
7:08
this recognition that you need to pay people well in order to
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get the right people into jobs and to keep them, that you need
7:14
to give them that ongoing work, work life balance.
7:18
And for that reason I think that it is making the transition from
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other sectors a lot easier. When I think about contacts of
7:30
mine who have made that change maybe from the corporate world
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into the social profit sector, so much of it is transferable.
7:38
So much really when you just think about the audience that
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we're appealing to and what we're trying to accomplish.
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It's just applying that same lens that you might have in
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another sector to to a new organization like Dress for
7:54
Success or whichever aspect of the nonprofit world might appeal
7:58
to you. And I think that there's real,
8:00
there's such value in diversity. You know, it's, it would be
8:02
incredible to have. I think your institutional
8:05
knowledge of the industry and of the nonprofit sector, I think is
8:08
absolutely invaluable. And for profit sector, private
8:12
sector individuals, I can imagine that that would be
8:14
sometimes maybe challenging differing different opinions,
8:17
etcetera. But how great is that to have
8:20
these people cross over and to be able to share wisdom back and
8:22
forth? Like I can only imagine that
8:23
would be a benefit. Definitely I am.
8:27
I have this spectacular marketer who started working for us last
8:30
year and for a number of years she had worked in the cannabis
8:33
industry. And you know, if you are solid
8:36
in your skills and you are keen to learn and curious about how
8:41
you can add value for a new employer, I don't think that
8:45
transition is as daunting as some May 1st think.
8:50
Totally. And my husband and I, oh, he's a
8:52
marketer and we always talk about people being obsessed or
8:55
really into their craft and really taking their craft, you
8:59
know, to heart and really feeling pride in their craft.
9:01
We, you know, we see it everywhere and we always call it
9:03
out like you have a server who's just excellent going above and
9:07
beyond and we always want to call that out to that person.
9:09
Like that was, you know, amazing service.
9:10
Thank you. And and, and you're really
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speaking to something there around.
9:14
And perhaps this is what you talk with your clients about
9:15
too, at dress for Success around that notion of of Jesus.
9:20
What is the craft that you want to be known for and how could
9:22
like what lights you have? You know, we're talking about
9:24
our respective kind of businesses and areas and like I
9:27
get lit up talking about this type of thing.
9:29
This is my craft. And and you know, what is the
9:31
craft you're talking about? That marketer who's clearly
9:33
passionate and great at their craft, irrespective of whatever
9:36
interest rate they're, you know, going from cannabis to
9:39
nonprofit. That's so cool.
9:40
I love that. That's I think.
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You can, you can find meaning in your work in so many different
9:45
ways. You know, and oftentimes when I
9:47
talk to people who are contemplating that move, they
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really are, as you said, they're looking for that meaning and
9:53
wanting to make it difference for people.
9:54
But you can do that outside of your nine to five too, right?
9:57
If you are able to excel within the sector that you're in and
10:02
then become a donor, become a volunteer, become a board member
10:06
for A cause that you care about and that can be equally
10:10
fulfilling, right? And so there are lots of
10:12
different ways to to add value in her roles.
10:16
I love that. I think that's such an excellent
10:17
call out around that I think people get really paralyzed.
10:20
Like I'm not volunteering at a soup kitchen and that's a that's
10:23
a really, that's a crappy example for me to use, but you
10:26
know what I mean? It's like that notion of like, I
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should be out there in the on the front lines.
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If that's really important to you, then yes, find a way to
10:31
make that a thing for you. But some people get overwhelmed
10:34
perhaps by like the time commitments or whatever the
10:37
burdens are, you know, whatever the things that they're putting
10:39
in their place, the boulders will call them.
10:42
But I think that you're right, like to be a silent donor, to be
10:44
a, a name donor, to be a someone who's giving your time on a
10:48
board member. If you are a marketer, you can
10:50
be like, Hey, can I give my expertise as absolutely, yeah.
10:53
There's so many. I think that's OK.
10:55
We digress. I digress.
10:57
I always digress. Tell me about becoming becoming
11:02
a mum in white. Has resilience looked like this
11:04
is going to be a big conversation around resilience
11:06
facing challenges? What have some of those
11:08
challenges been for you in in Motherhood and Parenthood?
11:14
It's a crazy ride, isn't it? You know, the first time
11:16
motherhood and I only have one awesome kid and so.
11:22
Oh, absolutely. But it was kind of A1 and done
11:25
experience for me. That was that was big.
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It was a big change in my life as it is for everyone.
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Think that when you know, you focused so much on your career
11:35
and um, and are really driven that way and, um, the, the
11:41
success that comes with that is, is, becomes very tied into your
11:46
identity. It, it, it shouldn't be probably
11:49
to the extent that it is for many of us, but it was for me.
11:52
And I found the transition to motherhood to be really, really
11:55
challenging. I felt like a fish out of water.
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I felt like I was just completely out of my element and
12:02
overwhelmed because I didn't know exactly what to do and I
12:05
didn't know, I didn't know how to be perfect at it.
12:08
And that is something that I think was a huge learning
12:11
opportunity for me that you have to let go of that.
12:15
And it was, gosh, easier said than done for me.
12:19
I think I shared this with you in a previous conversation, but
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it was actually when my little guy was six months old and I was
12:25
still on that leave that I kind of went to my doctor and I was
12:30
feeling completely overwhelmed. My anxiety was high.
12:33
And at that time I was misdiagnosed with depression and
12:36
anxiety. Only a few years later to
12:38
realize that, wow, I actually have ADHD and this is a very
12:42
common time for women to be diagnosed because all of the
12:46
tools in your toolbox, all of the coping mechanisms that I
12:50
have had in place since I was a kid no longer applied, right.
12:54
So becoming a parent, I think it changed me.
12:59
It really did. I, I think that I'm able to
13:02
approach my relationships in a different way.
13:05
I'm able to approach my work in a different way that I think
13:08
makes me a stronger leader, but it's also allowed me to be a lot
13:16
kinder to myself, right? And and to accept that not
13:21
everything is going to be perfect and that and that's OK.
13:25
Oh, that must have been hard. As a high performer.
13:27
I can like, you know, the second I heard you speak on stage, I
13:30
was like, oh, that woman is a high performer, high achieving
13:35
individual, you know, and I can only imagine.
13:37
Yeah, there's so much. I'm like, just like my son's
13:41
room is right next to. I'm just kind of like looking in
13:43
that area. And I'm like, geez, Louise, like
13:44
the poo explosions and the stuff that you were like, didn't even
13:49
know could go wrong or that could happen.
13:51
And you're like, this is Ohio. Would.
13:54
Be perfect. How could anybody, how do all
13:57
these Instagram people oh, do this perfect, right?
14:00
You don't see. This is not making it so much
14:02
harder for us, right, to have this.
14:05
It's not just about your immediate circle and the stories
14:08
you're hearing from other moms or your family or your, your
14:11
village. I mean, don't get me started on
14:13
village, right? Because that's a bit of a, a
14:16
misinformed concept for so many of us.
14:18
But yeah, we see these these samples of perfection everywhere
14:23
now. And I don't think that it's
14:24
helping us to be kind to ourselves, not at.
14:27
All what advice would you give yourself?
14:29
If you're like, looking back on that eight years ago, that
14:33
version of yourself, then what advice would you give yourself
14:37
knowing what you know today? Yeah, I think, I think I would
14:41
try to try to tell myself just to let it go and to try to be
14:46
more present and to let myself know that it's all going to be
14:53
OK, right. It's.
14:59
Yeah, I really wish maybe I'd heard that and maybe believed
15:03
it. I'm sure I was told that along
15:04
the way and maybe just couldn't see beyond my own overwhelm,
15:09
right. So knowing that that was only a
15:12
snapshot in time that I'll never get back, I'll probably never
15:16
have another whole year at home with my kid.
15:19
So in hindsight, I wish that I was able to be more present and
15:25
appreciate those moments, easy or hard for what they were and
15:29
and and take it all in a little bit of a different way.
15:35
OK, well I'm gonna take us in a real different direction cause I
15:37
just need to ask. You're so honest and I
15:39
appreciate that. And I just want, this is a
15:42
leading question because I want you to reassure myself and the
15:46
audience listeners who have like the really young kids, the the
15:49
one year old, the 2 year old, they're going back to work and
15:51
they're like, will I have this bond with my child if I go back
15:55
to work, if I continue to do both, which is something that I
15:58
talk a lot about. What's your what's your take on
16:01
that? Um, yes, yes.
16:06
So off the bat, I think that's, that's kind of my high level
16:09
answer. I think that I think that I'm a
16:12
better mom because I am doing something that I love, right.
16:16
So I can say that with the, you know, with the, with the bias,
16:21
because I'm very lucky to do what I do and I really enjoy
16:24
working right. So I think that for me, that
16:28
makes that makes my time with my kid a lot more focused.
16:33
I am able to be more present with him because there isn't as
16:38
much time, you know, to do that on one hand.
16:42
But also I think just overall I'm a happier person.
16:45
And we've all heard the analogies, right?
16:48
You've got to put your your life preserver on 1st.
16:51
You take your oxygen first. Yes, we all know those ones and
16:56
we've all heard them, and it's so much easier said than done.
16:59
But I do think that if you can find as, as a parent, if you can
17:04
find things that really fill you up and make you find that joy,
17:12
then your kid sees that too, right?
17:15
And I and I do think too, we're living in such an interesting
17:19
time where so many more men are feminists.
17:25
Gender parity is getting better, but we're not, we're nowhere
17:28
near, nowhere near where we need to be here in in Canada or
17:32
anywhere across the world. So I think that my child seeing
17:38
me work and seeing me liking my work is, um, creating role
17:45
modeling that not all kids get, right?
17:48
I, I, when I talked to my kid and try to tell them, you know,
17:52
along time ago, women weren't allowed to work.
17:54
They weren't really allowed to have jobs or they weren't, if
17:58
they were allowed to have jobs, there were only a few different
18:01
jobs that they could do. And he's, he's completely
18:03
shocked by this, right? Completely love that you think
18:06
like, OK, if I can, if I can raise this little feminist too,
18:11
thinks that it's, it's normal for me to pursue things that I
18:15
like and take the time to do that and can still show up for
18:21
him. Yeah.
18:24
I, I think that I that's, that's one thing that I'll be proud of
18:27
through my parenting journey. I mean, that said, it's not,
18:29
it's not all, you know, it's not all perfect here.
18:33
I can't tell you the number of times my my child who just
18:37
finished grade 2 has told me, you know, Mom, I really wish
18:40
that you would pick me up from school more.
18:42
You haven't picked me up from school in a long time because he
18:45
goes to before and after school care every day.
18:47
And that's just works. That's what has to happen for
18:52
myself and for his dad in order to make our lives work.
18:56
And, and I can, I can explain that to him and I know he
19:01
understands, but he still wants what he wants.
19:03
He still wants me at the door of his classroom every once in a
19:07
while. And when I am there, seeing how
19:09
he beams when he sees me is just reinforces that.
19:13
But I think that there's, I hope that there's a level of
19:17
understanding there from him and I hope that when he's grown,
19:21
he'll look back and realize that this has been the right the
19:25
right journey for me. I love that.
19:27
You know, what's coming to mind is like the Smarties, you know,
19:29
they want to have a box of Smarties everyday.
19:31
Yeah, we don't give it to them. They're very mad in the moment.
19:34
And so hopefully once they turn, I was going to say 1825, they're
19:39
like, Oh yeah, Smarties every day is probably not a good call.
19:44
Dad and I always used to joke when he first started daycare
19:46
and he was in full time daycare from the time he was 12 months
19:48
old. We always used to joke like, Oh
19:50
my gosh, the teachers are doing such a better job in the in
19:53
their time with him than we ever could.
19:56
I mean, these people are professionals.
19:57
This is incredible. And he loved daycare, right?
20:00
So, yeah, it's, it's a bit of a trade off, but I know that he he
20:06
received really wonderful care. We were very lucky and very
20:09
privileged to be able to access that.
20:10
I want to acknowledge that. But you know, I think, I think.
20:14
In that respect, my kids gonna be OK.
20:17
Yes, yes, he will. I really I think that's such a
20:20
beautiful message around the you liking your work, enjoying what
20:24
you do for 8 hours plus a day. If that's you know your work
20:28
makeup is is part of that roll your eyes oxygen mask piece like
20:33
it is part of that, like you enjoying.
20:35
It's like we talk about you enjoying whatever partnerships
20:38
or relationships you're in, whatever work you're doing,
20:41
hobbies and act like kids. Seeing you have joy is very
20:44
joyful. I see my parents having fun
20:46
traveling these days and I'm like, that brings me so much joy
20:50
to see them talk about going to Antarctica and like, you know,
20:53
and just like, oh, that still brings me joy to see my parents
20:56
enjoy. So I think that's just such a
20:58
beautiful reminder and hopefully inspiration that like you making
21:01
your career change maybe for less money, maybe for more money
21:04
is regardless of the money and all that, like that's not a
21:08
selfish decision. If you're going to enjoy your
21:10
work more, if you can be more, if that can then make you be
21:13
more present with your kids, turn off, not be stressed, not
21:16
be anxious by the e-mail that pings in, you know?
21:19
Right. All that right?
21:21
Yes, how has how has the parenting journey gone as a Co
21:25
parent and and that whole world, you know, I love to represent
21:30
just the different makeups of families and and how that all
21:32
looks. And so you know, how, how has
21:35
that kind of shaped who you are in the resilience that you
21:38
access as a parent? Yeah, so I, I've been separated
21:43
for a couple of years now. And so Nolan, my son was at the
21:47
end of kindergarten when his dad and I decided to separate.
21:50
And any transition like that is is challenging for all involved.
21:54
Absolutely, absolutely. Only having my son for half the
21:59
time was heartbreaking at 1st and it's still hard.
22:05
But I think that one of one of the things that I have now come
22:11
to appreciate is that it's provided me a little bit more
22:14
balance in my life. So it does allow me to put a
22:18
little bit of extra time in work wise or to see friends or just
22:23
go for a walk outside on my own, which I love doing when I'm on
22:29
my own, right. So it's as hard as that piece
22:34
has been going from a cohesive family all under the same roof
22:38
too. This Co parenting dynamic.
22:43
I, I don't take for granted the freedom that it's also provided
22:48
me. It's allowed me to focus on my
22:52
career in a different way, right?
22:53
But that balance also allows me to be on when I'm with my son,
23:00
right? So, yeah, that, that journey has
23:03
been, it's been a huge learning, I think for all involved.
23:07
But I'm, I'm pretty sure the studies say that it's better for
23:10
a kid to have two happy parents than it is, you know, to be in
23:15
an environment that is a little bit more, more difficult.
23:18
I think that was the right choice for for my family,
23:22
despite how difficult transitions been.
23:25
And I think that in the long term, it's going to be something
23:28
that my son will appreciate to. I hope so.
23:32
I hope. So I can, I mean, and and in
23:35
this, you know, day and age of just the the I don't know you as
23:38
a parent. I can only imagine you're an
23:39
incredible parent. I can imagine you married
23:41
somebody who is an incredible parent in their own right.
23:44
And and so that's all like, you know, it's it's all you need is
23:47
I just yeah, I just think that we're in such a really cool.
23:50
Not that I've been a parent before this the age of
23:53
parenting, but yeah, I just think the way that you know, the
23:56
way the trends and how much people care about and really
23:59
think about their parenting and how they're parenting, how
24:01
they're going through these transitions.
24:02
I don't know that our parents generation had a playbook for.
24:05
It I don't think. That they had Instagram to share
24:09
with them? Co parenting advice or how do
24:12
you have a conversation? What are some scripts around
24:14
having a conversation around separation?
24:15
Like yes where did they get that information from?
24:17
I just feel so sad for that generation like imagine this
24:22
age, you know, being this age and going like, you know,
24:24
yourself going through that and not having people maybe didn't
24:27
talk about it either. They.
24:28
Just. Silently suffered.
24:31
And that doesn't take away from the fact that it sounds really
24:33
freaking challenging. I don't think you can look that
24:35
up in the encyclopedia. Not exactly, no, there's no,
24:39
there's no specific how to guide.
24:40
I think that there are a number of books out there that try, but
24:43
I think that, you know, everyone does the best with with the with
24:49
what they know. So our parents generation did,
24:51
our grandparents generation did. And that said, you know, I, my
24:58
generation and me being in the privileged position that I'm in
25:02
to have gone to university, to have established a full time
25:04
career, it gave me a lot more freedom to make a make a
25:09
decision that I knew would be best for me, right.
25:11
So these are unprecedented, unprecedented times for that
25:15
reason. And there will be books written
25:18
10 years and 20 years and 30 years from now that I'm sure
25:21
we'll have completely different advice than we're all following
25:24
right now. And, and I think that's just
25:27
how, that's just how things evolve.
25:29
Yes, and now as we continue to evolve in this conversation and
25:34
what a story of resilience and just positively like you're what
25:37
I can just feel oozing through our computer screens right now
25:41
from you is just really taking a challenge.
25:44
I mean like, OK, this is the situation.
25:47
You know, there is a marriage breakdown.
25:49
This is the situation. What can I love about this?
25:52
What can I honor is challenging and I just like that is you were
25:55
the perfect person to be in the position that you were in as the
25:58
executive director of Dressed for Success Vancouver, given
26:01
that that you are a beacon of hope and you're doing the thing
26:04
yourself. So first of all, tell us, for
26:07
those who don't know, I have done been a kind of on the
26:11
sidelines of Dress for Success for a while and I just
26:15
absolutely love what you do. Can you explain to the audience
26:18
what it is, where it operates, how it all goes?
26:21
Give us your spiel because I won't be able to do it.
26:24
Justice happy to so dress for. Success like this is what I do
26:29
for a living. Let me get out, sorry.
26:34
Dress for Success is a worldwide organization that's serving
26:37
women and gender diverse clients, empowering them into
26:40
great jobs, financial independence and personal
26:43
success, whatever that looks like for them.
26:46
Our affiliate here in Vancouver was founded in 1999 by a
26:50
fabulous woman named Astro Levelt who started providing
26:54
dressing services for women in the community out of church
26:58
basement on Main Street. We've grown to to offer many
27:04
additional programs beyond providing professional attire
27:08
and suiting to our clients. We now have a cohort based
27:13
mentorship and peer support program called the Working
27:16
Women's Group. We offer at least 30 public
27:19
workshops every year that are completely free and delivered
27:24
virtually and in person for our community.
27:27
And we also have a resume review, interview support
27:34
through volunteer career specialists and supporting women
27:38
in our community and across the country, as well as an
27:42
ambassador program where graduates of our program are out
27:45
there in the community as champions for us and our cause.
27:48
At the heart of what we do though, is that we're empowering
27:52
our clients through transition to be able to take that next
27:56
step in their professional journeys, no matter what that
28:00
looks like for them. Many of our clients are
28:03
newcomers having arrived to Canada, more than half of them
28:06
having arrived to Canada in the last five years.
28:09
And many of our clients are in transition having left a
28:15
relationship after many years and not having been in the in
28:18
the workforce for a good part of that time.
28:21
We serve clients who are leaving environments where there is
28:26
domestic violence or gender based violence, all to create
28:30
accessibility to employment. With my team in recent once we,
28:36
we had a really great conversation around what does
28:39
success look like for our clients?
28:41
And you know, you can't really pinpoint one thing, but it's
28:44
about giving people the opportunity to access what they
28:49
need for themselves, for their loved ones and for their
28:53
communities. And and I'm so proud to see the
28:57
work that the team does each and every day.
29:00
Wow, congratulations for all that you do.
29:03
It's, it's, it's so incredible. I was at a, I think a breakfast
29:07
or I just I've been to a couple of your events back in the day.
29:10
I used to work for Spark Creations, Laurie Corpora and
29:14
anyway, who have been associated with you all anyways.
29:16
And I've seen I've heard stories from clients and it's really
29:20
beautiful the work that you all do.
29:21
And and it's just what I'm so touched by in how your
29:26
organization operates is how you do it in in such a way that
29:30
integrity is at integrity of the client is the four forefront
29:35
paramount. It is the thing it is it just I
29:37
really get that from your organization and I think that's
29:41
so cool. It's not patronizing.
29:42
It's not, oh, here, let us put you in a dress and send you off
29:45
to It's not that, you know, it's I think dress for success like
29:49
the marketing of from as a previous marketer, I'm like,
29:51
it's catchy. You can picture a like it's it's
29:55
memorable. So and I know it goes so much so
29:57
beyond that, but it's a very smart thing to keep it dress for
30:00
success as an organization. But yeah, it's just it's
30:04
beautiful. Like it's really that whole
30:05
empowerment. Giving people, what I see does
30:07
is like giving individuals and your clients just the sense of
30:11
integrity that they deserve to be able to and the power and the
30:14
flexibility and the freedom to make choices.
30:17
Because I think that that's huge.
30:18
When you come to a change or transition and you feel like
30:21
you, you lack choice, that's a terrifying place to be.
30:25
And I imagine is, is that a place where your clients often
30:28
come to you where they just feel helpless in the choices that
30:31
they have. They don't even know what their
30:32
choices are. Yeah, I think that's really
30:36
integral to our impact. You make a really good point
30:38
that by having sustained employment, by earning a living
30:45
wage, by supporting our clients income mobility, you're creating
30:51
choice for them, right? Many of our newcomer clients
30:54
will talk about going from a survival job to a job where
30:58
they're thriving, right? It's about allowing people to to
31:03
reach their potential, whatever that is, in support of the life
31:06
that they need and and want. Our core values of the
31:10
organization are inclusion, hope and dignity.
31:13
And it's that dignity piece and I, I want to, I want to read the
31:18
definition of it for you because it's so important in our work.
31:22
Our definition of dignity is holding everyone worthy and
31:24
capable of achieving their highest potential.
31:27
So we're giving our clients a chance to do that.
31:30
It's not just about the clothes that someone wears when they go
31:33
to that interview, although that helps you get your foot in the
31:35
door, but it's also about the connections you make, the social
31:41
capital that you build the the community that you're a part of
31:45
that can really support you in that journey.
31:48
When you think of think of a newcomer who's just come to the
31:52
country, they may have been really well established in their
31:56
career and they're starting from scratch.
31:58
When you think about business relationships and kind of having
32:02
to prove themselves and and build their credibility all over
32:06
again and starting a new life in Canada.
32:10
Can't even imagine. It's so brave.
32:12
It's so incredibly brave, what so many people do for various
32:16
reasons, you know? And can you talk about, I know
32:19
you're saying it's not just about the dress, but I do think
32:21
there's something so interesting about feeling that sense of
32:25
dignity. That is totally the word I meant
32:27
not integrity, but I think you were catching my drift when like
32:32
some, you know, some of this, the situations that you've seen
32:34
or the client success stories when feeling that pride in what
32:39
a person is wearing, like the transformation you can have.
32:42
I'm really thinking about this audience who's listening here,
32:44
who's probably just feeling very inspired by the work you do, but
32:46
is also maybe reflecting on going back to work after having
32:49
a couple babies or a baby and just feeling like your body is
32:52
different, your clothes don't fit.
32:54
You know, you just I've been there.
32:55
I'll speak from my own experience.
32:56
I was just feeling like I don't even know.
32:59
I don't even know, you know, I don't feel like I'm standing
33:02
tall in what I'm wearing. And it really makes a big
33:04
difference. Share with us, you know what
33:06
have you seen from from that standpoint.
33:09
I think when you have a baby, you can often feel like your
33:11
body is not even your own anymore.
33:13
You know, it's, it's a very, very bizarre feeling.
33:17
When, when you and I were prepping for this call, we
33:19
talked about the, the, the saying look good, feel good.
33:23
I had a, a girlfriend in my 20s who like that.
33:26
That was her, that was her motto.
33:27
And and rightly so, because there's, it's more than it's
33:33
about more than just making that good first impression.
33:36
There's a psychology behind behind that.
33:40
And so when we help our clients feel more like themselves
33:47
through what they're able to express in clothing that they're
33:50
truly worthy of, that create, that can create a shift for our
33:54
clients. So with when you're wearing
33:59
clothing that I think is comfortable, that fits you well,
34:03
that is maybe trendier than you have in your in your own closet.
34:08
And we provide this clothing to our clients who are either
34:12
interviewing for a new job or secured a new job.
34:16
It can really support someone's confidence and self esteem.
34:22
I my background is in fundraising.
34:24
So in coming into this organization, you know, with
34:26
the, with that marketing lens as well, the fact that our
34:30
organization name is so tangible is something that I was really,
34:34
really excited about, right? But I quickly learned that it's
34:37
about so much more than than the suit.
34:40
Actually, my colleagues in Toronto have an event that's
34:43
called Beyond the Suit, right? Because part of the yeah, part
34:46
of the challenge in this organization is getting our
34:50
community of supporters to think beyond donating clothes to
34:54
thinking of us as that charity of choice worthy of
34:58
philanthropic or or cash contributions in order to
35:01
support our operations that that advance our mission.
35:07
Yeah, like those like the career services that you provide that I
35:10
wish that I could provide. I mean, I was talking to my
35:13
business coach about this. Ah, that feeling of being like,
35:18
I just want to give my services away for free.
35:20
And her really having to rein it in and say you make this
35:23
business so much of A success that you can be doing
35:26
scholarships, you can be donating your money that is made
35:30
backed organizations that you believe in like dress for
35:32
success. And it's just that feel, you
35:34
know, it's and it's, I guess it's kind of going back to our
35:37
previous discussion. Know people who are like, but I
35:38
want to do good. And it's like you don't.
35:40
There's a lot of ways to do good.
35:42
A lot. Of different ways to do good, so
35:44
many ways to do good. And I think that's awesome.
35:47
I love that. That's kind of where the
35:48
organization is going. And it's just beyond, yeah,
35:51
beyond the suit, which is just isn't, you know, it's very
35:54
important and very important step.
35:55
But I think you're really, the organization's really on to
35:58
something with that. Yeah.
36:00
The, the gender inequality situation that's happening now.
36:03
I have a question for you, for those listening who might be in
36:06
a situation where they've taken a break from work.
36:09
Um, maybe they're in a, how do I put this?
36:13
They're in a relationship where they're not maybe the one who is
36:17
bringing in the income and maybe they feel nervous about that.
36:21
Maybe they feel like they don't have their own savings.
36:23
They're feeling stale, quote UN quote.
36:25
I hear that sometimes like, oh, am I like losing my skills and
36:29
am I, mark, what if something were to happen and I had to go
36:32
back to work? I this is more as a, not an
36:35
executive director. This is more as a friend, you
36:37
know, what do you, what could you tell somebody in that
36:40
situation? Yeah, I think that feminism is
36:45
all about choice, right? And having access to choice and
36:51
to decide what's best for you and your family and your path
36:54
forward, right. So I think for some individuals
36:58
who may have taken a break from their their paid employment,
37:03
maybe that's what's worked for themselves and their families
37:07
for a while, leaning into that can be such a beautiful thing
37:12
too. But for those that feel like
37:16
it's the right thing to get back into the workforce, I think
37:19
there are there are different ways to contribute and kind of
37:22
to keep yourself relevant, whether it's continuing to
37:24
network. So that when you're taught when
37:26
time comes that you decide, OK, I want to get back in, in the,
37:30
in the paid employment game that you have your network people to
37:34
reach out to. We talk a lot about social
37:36
capital at Dress for Success and how important it is to continue
37:41
to build that network of champions and people who will
37:46
really sponsor you and make those those connections, those
37:50
introductions take A chance on you when when you need that
37:54
help. So I think that, yeah, going
37:58
back to what I said about just feminism being about choice,
38:02
there's no, there's no right or wrong in that equation.
38:05
And I think for those of us who have had full careers at any
38:09
point in time, it's easy to be hard on ourselves when we're we,
38:13
we don't feel like we're, we're, we're building things in the way
38:18
that we once did. But yeah, just accessing things
38:25
that kind of fulfill you and kind of keep you in touch with
38:29
the the networks, the people, the new ideas that will support
38:34
you when you want to head back into paid employment, I think
38:40
will help anyone who who's feeling that.
38:42
Way, I think that's fabulous and it's so true.
38:45
I think of the referrals that I've given to people or the
38:48
introductions I've made. I mean, most of those
38:50
situations, I've never worked with the person.
38:52
I'm just like, this person is a great human.
38:54
Sally is fabulous. I don't know what's what is
38:57
here, but why don't you guys connect?
38:59
Right? So it's like that.
39:00
Social capital doesn't have to be.
39:02
Oh, this was a former colleague. Just being a good human can
39:05
often get you, get you in the door and get you pretty far in
39:08
life, to be honest. Yeah.
39:11
And that's something. No, go ahead, go ahead.
39:13
I'm just going to say that's something that I absolutely love
39:16
connecting to good people and seeing what might come of it.
39:19
You know, it's in my with my fundraiser hat on.
39:22
That's what it's about too, right?
39:24
You have a donor who wants to make a difference, but they
39:26
don't know how or the right path to take.
39:28
And you have an organization that has that need.
39:30
And making that match between both is is really the win win
39:36
that I really love about the nonprofit.
39:38
Sector and people. I mean, this is good advice for
39:41
anybody. People love matchmaking.
39:43
And so to have that ask to know what you're wanting to know that
39:47
you're what you're ask is, and start to just float that to
39:50
people and say, hey, I'm thinking in the next 5-10,
39:53
twenty years that I might want to get back into the workforce.
39:56
Who do you think I should? Who do you think I should
39:57
connect with? Can you put me in touch?
39:59
People love to do that. It's like people love to give
40:02
advice. They love to talk about
40:04
themselves. Too.
40:05
Yes. Good, good tips, yes.
40:10
You're like, I don't think you should be one of our career
40:12
coaches. No, no, no, that, that's solid
40:15
advice. Oh my goodness.
40:16
I'll tell a little story. I won't get too far into it, but
40:19
I mentioned having been a part of a student group when I was at
40:22
UC. It was a sorority and I learned
40:24
a lot being a part of the the Greek community when before we
40:31
would go into formal recruitment, we would actually
40:33
do conversation practice, right? We would all get together and we
40:36
would be coached as to how to talk to people, to make them
40:41
feel special and to, to gather enough information to figure
40:45
out, you know, if they were the right fit.
40:47
The recruitment process has changed drastically since I was
40:50
in my undergrad 25 years ago. But it's a lot more equitable
40:53
now. I have to say that you know,
40:55
there, there. Are like fighting.
40:56
You're like. Yeah, when there are those those
41:01
conversation tools and tips though that really do support
41:07
creating those connections and and having more generative
41:11
conversations with people you may meet.
41:13
Absolutely. It's almost, it's more of a,
41:16
let's not use the sorority example, but you know, it's,
41:20
it's more of a Dale Carnegie approach, right?
41:22
There are ways that you can communicate with people and
41:24
connect with people that will, that will benefit you and you
41:29
know, and your community as well.
41:31
Very true, Amanda, did you see what I just did there?
41:34
Little Dale Carnegie isn't that great at the sweetest.
41:38
The sweetest word in the English language.
41:40
Any human being is the sound of their own name.
41:44
Big Dale Carnegie fan over here. My grandma was a pretty badass
41:50
business woman back in the day. And yeah, and New York and, and
41:55
she, yeah, and she was an executive and she put all her
41:59
employees through Dale Carnegie. And she was an incredible public
42:02
speaker herself. So anyways, it's been drilled in
42:04
for many months now. I wanna, I wanna switch gears
42:09
and ask you about gender equity. And I, I don't always actually
42:14
share this particular piece on the podcast, but I do a
42:17
questionnaire beforehand, get to know the guests a little bit
42:20
more, just, you know, a few housekeeping things.
42:21
And I always ask, what's your thesis?
42:23
If you'd shout something from the rooftops, what would it be?
42:26
Because I always find it so fascinating to people write and
42:28
so beautiful. And you wrote the power of role
42:31
modeling and the tie into mentorship, which which we can
42:34
absolutely get into. And you wrote and why gender
42:36
equity isn't women's work alone. Can you expand on that and shout
42:41
for us? What do you want to shout on
42:42
that subject? Who?
42:44
Whose work is it? Yeah, it's, well, we as as
42:48
women, as those who identify as, as women, we cannot do it on our
42:54
own because we need those mentors, those sponsors, those
42:58
champions for us to help make that meaningful change, right.
43:03
As as as much progress as we have made as well as women, you
43:08
still have look at the percentage of men who are in
43:13
C-Suite roles compared to women, right.
43:16
And look at the way when you think about social capital and
43:20
promoting one another, that is still something that I think men
43:23
do do very well. And so I think that, you know,
43:29
the men need to be more than than just allies, right?
43:34
It needs to be more meaningful than just agreeing.
43:38
Yes, absolutely. Women should be provided equal
43:42
opportunity in in the workplace and beyond.
43:45
It's about taking meaningful action in order to create change
43:49
together. You know, that applies, that
43:52
applies to, to gender equity, but it also applies to, you
43:57
know, any other demographic than that is experiencing
44:01
intersecting barriers, right? We all have our part to do
44:05
beyond just agreeing that it's the right thing to do.
44:08
It's about taking meaningful action in order to make sure
44:12
that change happens. What do you believe could be
44:15
really helpful in this in this conversation around parents and
44:22
supporting parents in the workplace and I know it gender
44:27
equity. So it it is often a birthing
44:29
parents situation that they're coming and going from the
44:33
workforce that can definitely cause undue hardship on their
44:36
career and being passed up for promotions feeling there's so
44:40
much that that is in there. What do you how do you think we
44:43
could in organizations, especially that there's leaders
44:46
listening? How can we better support
44:48
parents in navigating their career in doing so in an
44:53
equitable way? Where, you know, women
44:58
specifically and especially are not penalized for bringing
45:01
humans and repopulating the planet.
45:05
Right, right. Um, the, I think the, the
45:10
maternity penalty is a real thing.
45:12
Absolutely. And that said, I think like
45:16
we're very privileged to live in, in Canada because there are
45:19
some public supports available that do allow that penalty to
45:25
be, I mean becomes less of a penalty when it is shared, but
45:29
to be shared between both parents, the birthing parent
45:31
and, and other. So I think it was, it was right
45:35
after I went on maternity leave. So that would have been in maybe
45:38
early 2017 that the the maternity leave benefit or the
45:45
parental leave benefit delivered federally could be extended to
45:50
18 months for 12 in lieu of 12 or beyond the 12 month standard.
45:56
What that allows any Canadian to do is to take the equivalent of
46:02
the support provided over 12 months, take it over 18 months.
46:06
The other benefit that we have as Canadians, we're very
46:08
fortunate is that that parental leave can be split between both
46:12
parents, right? And it doesn't have to be that
46:14
one parent takes 1 chunk and then the other parent takes the
46:18
the tail end. I think that you have, I believe
46:20
you have quite a bit of flexibility as to how you can
46:24
you can take that. So the other thing that I think
46:29
employees or employers are really coming along on is just
46:35
being cognizant that there is that maternity penalty and
46:39
either investing in external programs or developing internal
46:43
programs that keep employees who are on parental leave engaged,
46:49
considering them when opportunities come up and
46:53
providing some flexibility when it comes to that return to work.
46:57
So that it's not something that is completely overwhelming and
47:00
it also supports their families needs.
47:04
Guess I, I think that's, you're so right.
47:06
Oh, I love how I, I'm like doom and gloom here and you're like,
47:09
no, think of the progress we've made and I'm like, right, we
47:12
need to think of the progress. So much progress has been made
47:15
and, and top ups are, are big thing too.
47:18
Now. I just absolutely love my, my
47:21
father clients that I work with who were talking about their,
47:24
you know, their parental leave that they're taking and how
47:26
they're being topped up for six months full pay like these,
47:29
these are, you know, of course, that's a very privileged
47:31
position to be in. We should call that out.
47:33
This isn't going to be everybody, but that's pretty
47:34
cool with these. The ball is rolling in the right
47:38
direction, I think. Yeah, absolutely.
47:40
And, and you know, there's the, there's the, the reality of, of
47:44
actual budget constraints, right?
47:45
I know that that's not, it's not possible for every employer.
47:49
In fact, I've just introduced a very, very small top up at dress
47:53
for Success. There was not one in, in place
47:57
prior to my arrival. But it's, it's the right thing
48:00
to do. It kind of it needs to be built
48:02
into business models because I think that you're much more
48:07
likely to retain a good employee, someone who already
48:10
has internal experience and that institutional knowledge if
48:14
you're able to provide them that compensation.
48:16
One of my one of my best girlfriends, she's a teacher.
48:19
Her mom is, was a teacher now retired.
48:21
Her grandmother was a teacher. So this would have been in the
48:23
early 50s when her mom was born that her grandmother was the
48:27
very first teacher in the Vancouver school board to be
48:30
granted A maternity leave and be allowed to even come back to
48:33
work after she had a child. So it was just bite.
48:37
Oh, I know. And so just by default that if
48:41
you had a baby, you were no longer entitled to employment as
48:44
a teacher. So that's.
48:45
Only 70. Five years ago, yeah, 75 years
48:49
ago. So we, yeah, we have come a
48:51
very, very long way. But yeah, there's there's still
48:54
a ways to go. Yes, wow, incredible.
48:59
Oh my goodness, Amanda, I could talk to you forever.
49:02
As always, I have a million more questions and it's funny, I
49:05
always, you know, I send an e-mail being like, here's some
49:07
topics we could talk about. Don't know that we covered one
49:08
of them, maybe a few, but what would you hope to leave our our
49:14
listeners? For those who are, here's the
49:15
question. For those who are, you know,
49:18
they've come up to a challenging situation, They have to make
49:20
some challenging choices and they're at that pivot point that
49:24
we've kind of been talking about through the course of our
49:26
conversation. What advice, what wisdom would
49:29
you give them? Knowing what you know from the
49:32
beautiful clients that you've been inspired by and through
49:34
your own journey, what advice would you give?
49:36
Yeah, I think I'm always just, I'm always so impressed by the
49:43
courage and the resilience that we see in in our clients who are
49:47
navigating really challenging transitions.
49:51
So I think that the only advice that I would leave with your,
49:56
your audience is, umm, to know that any challenge, most
50:01
challenges are just a snapshot in time.
50:03
So whether that's as a new parent, whether that's in a, in
50:07
a job search or navigating a really difficult transition,
50:11
that's just one moment in your life.
50:15
So things do do get better and things continually change to
50:20
just, you know, believe in yourself and your value and
50:25
what's possible for yourself and and and and and seek the
50:31
supports that will that will help you navigate the moment
50:36
that you find yourself in. That's wonderful advice, and if
50:40
anybody wants to reach out to you as your capacity is
50:44
executive director of Dress for Success Vancouver wants to
50:48
donate, learn more about how they can support contribute.
50:50
Where can they find you all? They can look us up
50:53
online@dfsvancouver.org where we have opportunities to support us
50:59
as a donor, as a volunteer, or even to get involved as a as a
51:03
client or participant in our programs.
51:05
Beautiful. And I know that you do have a
51:08
number of events, whether it's your chapter here in Vancouver
51:10
or you said Toronto has a fun event coming up.
51:12
I know there is. Is there a luncheon coming up in
51:14
September? There is, it's in November and
51:17
it's November, yes, November 25th this year at the Hyatt
51:21
Regency Vancouver. Early bird tickets are already
51:24
on sale and we're expecting a crowd of at least 600.
51:27
So very, very excited for our community to come together.
51:31
If your your audience is is more national though we have 13
51:34
affiliates across Canada, we have a chapter in Kelowna, a
51:38
couple in Alberta, all the way to Halifax.
51:41
So please do look up the Dress for Success in your home
51:44
community and and see how you can get involved.
51:47
I love it. Thank you so much Amanda for the
51:49
work you do and for joining me today.
51:50
Thank you so much. Thank you so much for listening
51:55
and since you made it this far, please share this episode with a
51:58
fellow parent who you love, respect, and want to support.
52:03
And while you're at it, hit me up on Instagram at All Figured
52:06
Out. Andrea, I would love to meet you
52:08
and hear what you are trying to figure out these days.