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Should Pochettino Stay? U.S. Development Issues & World Cup Final Preview · Inside American Soccer with Tom Bogert and Tab Ramos

0:00
Speaker 1: How is player development connected to the way she wants
0:04
Speaker 1: us to play? Because now it's been like eight years
0:07
Speaker 1: she's been there. It's not like she's been there for
0:08
Speaker 1: five minutes, like we haven't heard that in this and
0:11
Speaker 1: eight years, and that's why I personally think we need
0:13
Speaker 1: a change.
0:17
Speaker 2: What's going on?
0:17
Speaker 1: Everybody?
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Speaker 3: Welcome back to the Inside American Soccer. I'm us M
0:20
Speaker 3: and T insider Tom Boger and I'm joined but one
0:22
Speaker 3: of the greatest players US M and T history and
0:25
Speaker 3: our good friend tab Ramos.
0:26
Speaker 1: Tab.
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Speaker 3: We also have another special guest here. We're bringing a
0:29
Speaker 3: superstar off the bench. It's your arms tire analyst. It's
0:32
Speaker 3: Matt Doyle. First of all, Tab, we're getting closer to
0:35
Speaker 3: the World Cup final. I know you're a busy man
0:37
Speaker 3: when when you say things like there was a FIFA
0:40
Speaker 3: event with legends and then you just casually don't mention
0:43
Speaker 3: that you were part of that cast as a FIFA legend. So,
0:46
Speaker 3: how is has the last few days been.
0:49
Speaker 1: It's been really nice and really busy. Actually, So yeah,
0:52
Speaker 1: as I was telling you yesterday, I was in the
0:54
Speaker 1: city for invited by George Altiers and Capelli to be
1:00
Speaker 1: part of the FIFA House event that they had last night.
1:04
Speaker 1: So they had a bunch of legends there as and
1:06
Speaker 1: Eddie was there, Masurano was there, a bunch of guys,
1:09
Speaker 1: so it was it was really nice. And in the
1:11
Speaker 1: morning I had an event for the World Cup Committee
1:13
Speaker 1: New Jersey, the New New York New Jersey World Cup
1:16
Speaker 1: Committee that uh you know, uh, you know, Tammy, the
1:23
Speaker 1: governor's wife was there. You know, it was. It was
1:26
Speaker 1: just a great event in the morning. And in between
1:28
Speaker 1: I spent some time at the MLS office. So it
1:29
Speaker 1: was really, uh, really nice day yesterday.
1:33
Speaker 3: Busy day, Doyle, did your Legends invite and lost in
1:36
Speaker 3: the mail from Keith what happened there?
1:37
Speaker 4: Yeah, I had a different Legends invite. It was from
1:41
Speaker 4: my local liquor store. I had a couple of cases
1:44
Speaker 4: of beer, pizza, watched some some MLS sat through that
1:49
Speaker 4: that Neil Nil draw between Toronto and Montreal. I felt
1:53
Speaker 4: like a legend after that one.
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Speaker 2: Absolutely you should have gotten like an ice survived pin.
1:59
Speaker 4: Though have any of us really survived?
2:02
Speaker 1: I think I got an invite for that next week.
2:04
Speaker 2: Oh goody reception of it.
2:07
Speaker 3: Yeah, Well, we're still dealing with the fallout of the
2:12
Speaker 3: US M n T getting eliminated from the World Cup.
2:14
Speaker 3: We've had some time to digest, We've talked about it.
2:16
Speaker 3: We're gonna continue talking about the latest around the team,
2:19
Speaker 3: and then also this little thing called the World Cup
2:21
Speaker 3: Finals coming to New Jersey on Sunday. Tab and I
2:24
Speaker 3: are going to break all of that down. But let's
2:26
Speaker 3: start with the US and Doyle. Since the audience has
2:29
Speaker 3: heard me and Tab talk and talk and talk, we
2:30
Speaker 3: want to start with you. Listen, it's been about a
2:33
Speaker 3: week and a half now since the US have been eliminated.
2:35
Speaker 3: We've all given our thoughts, opinions, analysis. For you, I'm
2:39
Speaker 3: curious your big picture thoughts and if anything has either
2:42
Speaker 3: changed or evolved in your mind since you know the
2:45
Speaker 3: first time you're going on air Monday night or Tuesday morning.
2:48
Speaker 4: I mean, the depression is still there, right because they
2:51
Speaker 4: had such a great opportunity and they swandered it with
2:56
Speaker 4: that listless showing against Belgium. And I do think that
2:59
Speaker 4: outside fact there's play a role. We've seen Wester McKinney's
3:02
Speaker 4: dad come out and say we saw Flo flow balligate
3:04
Speaker 4: himself come out and say it, and it's it sucks
3:09
Speaker 4: right like you get this opportunity once a generation and
3:13
Speaker 4: it was there and it's gone now, but it's not
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Speaker 4: the end. This is still a super talented team. I
3:19
Speaker 4: think the real version of this team is much closer
3:22
Speaker 4: to what we saw against Paraguay than what we saw
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Speaker 4: against Belgium. And now it's up to them in this
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Speaker 4: next cycle to come out and prove it. And people
3:31
Speaker 4: are focused on the twenty thirty World Cup, and to me,
3:35
Speaker 4: the focus has to be on Nations League. You have
3:37
Speaker 4: to re establish dominance over Canada and Enema and Mexico.
3:43
Speaker 4: But then it's twenty twenty eight cupa America, which we
3:46
Speaker 4: still don't know where it's gonna be. It's either Ecuador
3:49
Speaker 4: or back here. My guess has followed the money and
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Speaker 4: that means it'll be here and it's gonna be another
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Speaker 4: huge opportunity. And these guys have shown against a good
3:59
Speaker 4: Paraguay team that they could be a handful and they
4:02
Speaker 4: need to get that back and I'm sorry for it.
4:05
Speaker 4: I am genuinely more excited than I thought I would
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Speaker 4: be in the waning moments of that humiliation against Belgium.
4:15
Speaker 3: Tab Anything on your end and in terms of evolution
4:18
Speaker 3: of thoughts or kind of pretty much where you were
4:20
Speaker 3: again the Monday night, the Tuesday morning after the game.
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Speaker 1: No, I mean, in general, I'm pretty much in the
4:25
Speaker 1: same place. I think, you know, Matt Frame did correctly
4:29
Speaker 1: and saying that, you know that he believes that we're
4:32
Speaker 1: closer to that that game against Paraguay than we are
4:35
Speaker 1: to anything else that happened in the tournament. And I
4:38
Speaker 1: think that's a good way to look at it, because
4:39
Speaker 1: you don't, you don't get lucky to play as well
4:41
Speaker 1: as we played that day. That means that we can
4:44
Speaker 1: do that and we can be that team. And so
4:46
Speaker 1: I've you know, I've said it all along for you know,
4:48
Speaker 1: for as negative as the final game against Belgium was,
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Speaker 1: and that's the last thing we can recall, there was
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Speaker 1: a ton of positive about this World Cup, you know,
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Speaker 1: besides the final result. You know, I think, you know,
5:00
Speaker 1: I continue to say our midfield is one of the
5:02
Speaker 1: better midfielders midfields in the world. I think we can
5:05
Speaker 1: compete against any team in that part of the field
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Speaker 1: giving the right tactical approach. I think our center forward
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Speaker 1: is one of the best center forwards in the world.
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Speaker 1: You know, obviously, given the right tactical approach and I
5:19
Speaker 1: think we can build around that. I think, you know,
5:21
Speaker 1: it's for me. It was in general, it was a
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Speaker 1: very positive World Cup. We don't get fifty million people
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Speaker 1: watching our team if we weren't doing something right.
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Speaker 3: I agree, And now that the onus is on the
5:32
Speaker 3: program to continue moving forward and continue being engaged with
5:35
Speaker 3: the community, and that starts mostly with on the field,
5:38
Speaker 3: because that is the most important to drawing people in.
5:40
Speaker 3: Before we continue, I want to hit you with the
5:42
Speaker 3: stat something that I'm pleasantly shocked by. Did you know
5:46
Speaker 3: Malik Tillman is now in a seven way tie for
5:49
Speaker 3: most direct free kick scored at a World Cup ever?
5:53
Speaker 3: And like not just one tournament, like ever at a
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Speaker 3: World Cup. It's Tilman, Lino Messi, David Beckham, Gangini, Koopi
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Speaker 3: Lash for Peru, Revellino for Brazil, and.
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Speaker 2: Pele for Brazil.
6:08
Speaker 4: You please help Tom's association.
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Speaker 2: H But I was, I was.
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Speaker 3: I wanted to say Messi and Beckham and then and Pele,
6:17
Speaker 3: and I was like, it'd be really mean to not
6:18
Speaker 3: give the other names.
6:19
Speaker 2: And I was like, shoot, this is the first time
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Speaker 2: I'm seeing a couple of.
6:22
Speaker 1: Well, you know, it's hard to respond because I actually
6:25
Speaker 1: the only thing I heard from what you said was
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Speaker 1: that I know that Messi now is going to score
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Speaker 1: a free kick in the final and and and win
6:32
Speaker 1: the Golden Boo. Would be the best three kick guy
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Speaker 1: ever win the World Cup. Like he's just gonna do everything.
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Speaker 1: So that's just what.
6:40
Speaker 2: I heard out of it.
6:41
Speaker 3: Well, Malik Tilman into the record books and you love
6:44
Speaker 3: to see that. I was talking to Malik's brother, Tim Tilman,
6:47
Speaker 3: who was a very good player for LAFC and MLS
6:49
Speaker 3: and he was able to get to all these games
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Speaker 3: him and his mom, which was very cool. He was
6:53
Speaker 3: like talking to the emotional side of like how cool
6:54
Speaker 3: this is, saying things like like talking to his mom,
6:57
Speaker 3: like on the car right over, like could you believe that?
6:59
Speaker 3: Like I'm playing in la and we're going to go
7:01
Speaker 3: watch Malik play at a World Cup.
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Speaker 2: It's incredible.
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Speaker 3: But like Tim was saying, I'm not a big like
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Speaker 3: take photos to take videos in the stadium kind of guy,
7:09
Speaker 3: which I respect. But he goes, particularly the game against
7:15
Speaker 3: against Bosnia, he goes, when when the foul happened, he goes,
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Speaker 3: I know Malik's taking this. He goes, I'm filming this.
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Speaker 3: I think he's scoring. So that was that was a
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Speaker 3: pretty good moment for Tim Tilman and the Tilman family.
7:25
Speaker 3: But on a more serious note, let's dive in more
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Speaker 3: to the future or the immediate future of this program.
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Speaker 3: Doyle tab and I I've talked plenty about what's happening
7:36
Speaker 3: next with Mauricio Pochettino. There's been some interviews given by J. T.
7:40
Speaker 3: Batson and others at US Soccer, but I want to
7:42
Speaker 3: start with your kind of, I guess shorter, big picture
7:45
Speaker 3: view on should the Federation bring back Mauricio Pochettino.
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Speaker 4: They should not, and it's not because I think Mauricio
7:52
Speaker 4: Pochettino is a bad coach. In fact, I think he's
7:54
Speaker 4: a really good coach. But there are two things to
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Speaker 4: consider here. One, our history with second cycle coaches, going
8:02
Speaker 4: all the way back to Bora. That year immediately after
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Speaker 4: ninety four was one of the worst years the programs
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Speaker 4: ever had, and he was gone by the summer of
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Speaker 4: ninety five. Bruce Arena, you know, fantastic first cycle, disappointing
8:19
Speaker 4: second cycle with the ending Bob Bradley, fantastic first cycle,
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Speaker 4: disappointing year. He was out. Jurgen got the job done
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Speaker 4: in twenty fourteen, a couple of years to start the
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Speaker 4: second cycle. He was out. Obviously, Greg Burr Halters, time
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Speaker 4: after time after time, we have fallen into this trap
8:38
Speaker 4: and we just need to avoid it. There should not
8:40
Speaker 4: be a second cycle from Mauricio Pauctino. Now, if he
8:43
Speaker 4: had taken us to the semifinals, then you throw up
8:45
Speaker 4: your hands and say, obviously he's the guy, bring him back.
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Speaker 4: But he didn't. We got to the same place we
8:51
Speaker 4: basically always got to now and we actually played worse
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Speaker 4: than we did four years ago against a better team
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Speaker 4: when we ourselves were younger team. He did not clear
9:01
Speaker 4: the bar necessary to justify bringing him back and breaking
9:05
Speaker 4: with this precedent of failure that we have with second
9:08
Speaker 4: cycle coaches. That's one and two. Is nobody in the
9:11
Speaker 4: right mind thinks that Mauricio Pochettino wants to spend this
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Speaker 4: next four year cycle coaching the US men's national team.
9:17
Speaker 4: He signs this contract, his eye is on whoever has
9:21
Speaker 4: a job opening, whether it's Juventus, whether it's Sevilla, whether
9:24
Speaker 4: it's Tottenham Hotspur. Again, that is where he wants to be.
9:28
Speaker 4: So it absolutely not. It is not good for the program.
9:32
Speaker 4: To have a guy who's going to have a wandering
9:34
Speaker 4: eye the whole time, who it's not his dream job
9:37
Speaker 4: to coach this team. So no, like he did. I
9:42
Speaker 4: do think he did very well over the court, Like
9:45
Speaker 4: I give him like a solid B B plus, but
9:49
Speaker 4: it like, it's not worth it to throw the program
9:54
Speaker 4: into immediate chaos to start this next four year cycle.
10:00
Speaker 4: And we don't need chaos. We need stability and growth.
10:02
Speaker 3: Tab Do you agree with the evaluation of like a
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Speaker 3: B or B plus for the eighteen to twenty months
10:07
Speaker 3: under Postino.
10:08
Speaker 1: Oh, I wouldn't go as high as a bee. I
10:11
Speaker 1: would go lower than that. You know, I would say
10:13
Speaker 1: this is a C at the very best, because I,
10:16
Speaker 1: you know, I have to at the end of the day,
10:19
Speaker 1: I have to think, could there have been another coach
10:22
Speaker 1: that could have gotten us to the same round? And
10:24
Speaker 1: to me the answer is yes, just about anyone could
10:27
Speaker 1: have gotten us to this place. I did the team
10:30
Speaker 1: play better for two years and the answer is no,
10:33
Speaker 1: they did not. So you know I and I did here.
10:36
Speaker 1: And this is the scary part, you know, because I
10:39
Speaker 1: did hear well you know he's held And by the way,
10:41
Speaker 1: I agree with Matt in terms of like, this is
10:44
Speaker 1: a great world coach, right who we know is not
10:46
Speaker 1: going to be here for four years, which you add
10:49
Speaker 1: to that, but I did. Here's the scary part for
10:51
Speaker 1: me that I start hearing things like, well, but he's
10:55
Speaker 1: helping us build our facility, and he's helping us he's
10:58
Speaker 1: really nice in terms of letting us know what we
11:01
Speaker 1: need in our facility. Who is it us soccer that
11:04
Speaker 1: doesn't think there are American guys who can tell them
11:07
Speaker 1: how to build a facility? Who you know, you know,
11:10
Speaker 1: have we not noticed that MLS clubs have amazing facilities
11:14
Speaker 1: all over the country. Do we not have American people
11:17
Speaker 1: who can help you build a facility? I think we do.
11:20
Speaker 1: So you know, if the reason I'm not saying that
11:23
Speaker 1: would be the only reason, but if one of the
11:25
Speaker 1: reasons is he's really nice because he's helping with our
11:28
Speaker 1: build out of our facility, I mean, we we've run
11:31
Speaker 1: out of things to say, really and and then I'll
11:34
Speaker 1: add more to that. I'll say, who are the people
11:38
Speaker 1: listening and who are the people deciding on this? And
11:41
Speaker 1: I keep asking that question, Tom, because last time when
11:44
Speaker 1: we talked about, you know, the way we picked Steve Tarandelo.
11:49
Speaker 1: You said, well, you know it was you know, hell Rich,
11:52
Speaker 1: and it was it was GOOC and other people, and
11:55
Speaker 1: that's fine. And I didn't push you on that because
11:57
Speaker 1: it's okay. Sometimes some people want to re main anonymous,
12:01
Speaker 1: but the people who are anonymous, they're the problem. That's
12:06
Speaker 1: where the problem is. It comes from the anonymous people.
12:09
Speaker 1: So wherever that's coming from, whoever the other people who
12:12
Speaker 1: are deciding is we need to know who they are
12:14
Speaker 1: because that's how we move forward.
12:16
Speaker 2: I'm glad you brought that up for me.
12:18
Speaker 3: I just didn't want to go all the way down
12:19
Speaker 3: the org chard of like you know further people that
12:21
Speaker 3: either report to guj or report to to Dan Helfridge,
12:24
Speaker 3: or report to j T. Batson like either the most
12:26
Speaker 3: pertinent people or would be JT. Bats in Sydney, Parlo
12:29
Speaker 3: Cone and Dan Helfrich and then obviously Gucci and Jeu.
12:33
Speaker 2: A couple of things.
12:34
Speaker 3: This week, the leaders that US Soccer had had a
12:38
Speaker 3: several roundtables with media, including The Athletic.
12:41
Speaker 2: One of the quotes that JT.
12:41
Speaker 3: Batson gave on Pochettino was quote, We're gonna take a
12:44
Speaker 3: break out of the World Cup and rest and recuperate.
12:47
Speaker 3: I didn't get too much resting and recuperating, but we're
12:49
Speaker 3: excited about the discussions with Pochettino. So again there's no
12:51
Speaker 3: decision there. Those things will continue. Maybe there's gonna be
12:54
Speaker 3: a little bit of break.
12:55
Speaker 2: I don't know.
12:55
Speaker 3: That reinforces my very very strong belief that if it's
12:59
Speaker 3: not Pochettino gets the job, it will be an interim
13:02
Speaker 3: coach in September, which is an ideal, but we'll see.
13:04
Speaker 3: And then also with the Tarndlo hire another name that
13:07
Speaker 3: was part of the process with Marisa Pochettino, Batson said, quote,
13:10
Speaker 3: Pochatino and his staff have been active about long term
13:13
Speaker 3: planning azar As a recent example, they were active in
13:15
Speaker 3: our discussions with Tarndolo about the U twenty three year old.
13:18
Speaker 3: We're feeling good about where we are overall, and we
13:20
Speaker 3: look forward to those discussions again talking about Marico Pochetino's future.
13:24
Speaker 2: And last one, JT.
13:26
Speaker 3: Batson again kind of indicated, you know, we're probably not
13:30
Speaker 3: gonna go We're not probably not going to hire a
13:31
Speaker 3: sporting director, pointing to the structure of the four people
13:36
Speaker 3: I named Anyeu, J T.
13:38
Speaker 2: Batson, City Park Cone, and Dan Elfrich, which.
13:41
Speaker 3: I'm not sure that I agree with, but I'm factually
13:45
Speaker 3: based on what they're saying, it seems to be they're
13:47
Speaker 3: leaning very strongly in that way.
13:49
Speaker 4: Let me ask you this, what exactly is a Guccio
13:53
Speaker 4: Yebo's role and like what is his remit that? To me,
13:59
Speaker 4: it seems like he actually is a sporting director in
14:02
Speaker 4: from what I've heard about what he's actually doing and
14:05
Speaker 4: what's on his plate.
14:06
Speaker 3: I mean, sure, but he's I think they're making it
14:09
Speaker 3: very clear you report to the three people above you.
14:12
Speaker 3: So that's kind of why he can't be sporting director.
14:15
Speaker 3: And while I agree that there are a lot of responsibilities,
14:19
Speaker 3: how publicly they're saying we're not gonna or probably not
14:22
Speaker 3: gonna hire a sporting director kind of undercuts on ye,
14:25
Speaker 3: Like maybe that's too strong of a way to say,
14:28
Speaker 3: but but like it's very clear that there's a tier
14:30
Speaker 3: of the three people at the top.
14:32
Speaker 2: And then on you, Mike.
14:35
Speaker 5: Drops, Wow, that's that's a yeah, that's that's an awkward
14:40
Speaker 5: silence there because I think you know by saying that,
14:43
Speaker 5: I think you say everything you know and and and
14:47
Speaker 5: I go back to our last conversation, where are the
14:49
Speaker 5: soccer people that's that's you know, that's a big part
14:53
Speaker 5: of this.
14:53
Speaker 1: You know, out of all the employees we have, where
14:55
Speaker 1: are they and whoever they are, Because you know, at
14:58
Speaker 1: the end of the day, if you would have said
14:59
Speaker 1: to me, pick the coach, okay, I think we can
15:03
Speaker 1: all move forward and say, okay, Goods, pick the coach
15:05
Speaker 1: because you know, when the Olympics come and if we
15:08
Speaker 1: do get eliminated in the first round, which is unlikely,
15:11
Speaker 1: but let's say that happens, then we can say, well, Goods,
15:13
Speaker 1: you picked the wrong guy, right, I mean, that's that's
15:16
Speaker 1: sort of how that goes. There's accountability, but with the
15:19
Speaker 1: we don't know. Yeah, it's a bunch of us and
15:21
Speaker 1: you know somebody you know, and then you know, sort
15:23
Speaker 1: of we just keep the same thing going. So yeah,
15:26
Speaker 1: that's why there was a mic drop there and it
15:28
Speaker 1: was hard to add.
15:30
Speaker 3: Tab would you want would you want to see them
15:32
Speaker 3: at a sporting director?
15:33
Speaker 2: Would you want?
15:34
Speaker 3: That kind of be a more clear like I think
15:37
Speaker 3: with Crocker, I believe he had final sale of everything,
15:39
Speaker 3: but just like any other either sporting organization or business organization,
15:42
Speaker 3: you still have to manage your bosses or have input
15:44
Speaker 3: from your bosses. So what what would you want that
15:47
Speaker 3: structure to look like?
15:49
Speaker 1: Well, you know the answer. The short answer is yes.
15:52
Speaker 1: But you know, I'm sure on the on the business side,
15:57
Speaker 1: when JT. Batson came in, I'm sure he's in an
16:00
Speaker 1: amazing business person. I'm sure he had a plan right,
16:03
Speaker 1: and part of his plan was these are our short
16:05
Speaker 1: term goals, these are middle term goals, and these are
16:09
Speaker 1: long term goals for US Soccer. And within those he
16:11
Speaker 1: started to work. Now, he started to hire people, he
16:14
Speaker 1: started to bring in money through the commercial area. Like
16:18
Speaker 1: all of those things start to come together. Well, the
16:21
Speaker 1: soccer party is no different. I think we need a
16:24
Speaker 1: person that says, these are our long term goals. We
16:27
Speaker 1: want to look like Barcelona, we want to look like Argentina,
16:33
Speaker 1: we want to look like France. What do we want
16:36
Speaker 1: to look like down the road? Because this I'm sure
16:38
Speaker 1: we'll have the conversation on player development. But player development
16:41
Speaker 1: is the same. You can't just talk about player development
16:44
Speaker 1: without knowing what you want. What is the outcome that
16:48
Speaker 1: you want and so somebody has to be responsible for
16:51
Speaker 1: that outcome that we want at US Soccer and then
16:55
Speaker 1: you start working towards it. Then you give that person
16:57
Speaker 1: time to work towards that goal, right, And so yeah,
17:01
Speaker 1: I do think that the business people should not be
17:05
Speaker 1: involved on the soccer side. It's two completely different areas.
17:10
Speaker 4: Doyle, your view, Yeah, it's It's something that we've all
17:14
Speaker 4: spent a lot of time thinking about, right, Like, how
17:18
Speaker 4: do you do you create an organization that's integrated and
17:23
Speaker 4: that is sort of mutually beneficial and mutually supportive, but
17:32
Speaker 4: also has a clear path in terms of who calls
17:36
Speaker 4: these shots and who calls these shots and keep everybody
17:39
Speaker 4: working together, but keep enough of it separate where the
17:43
Speaker 4: business affect is not necessarily unduly influencing the soccer aspect.
17:49
Speaker 4: At the same time, I think I would trust Cindy
17:54
Speaker 4: Parlow Cone over someone like Matt Rocker who was clearly
17:58
Speaker 4: just a mercenary and came in and screwed up the
18:02
Speaker 4: first coach hire and then got bailed out by a
18:06
Speaker 4: billionaire donor to end up coming up with Murcio Pochettino.
18:12
Speaker 4: You know, Cindy parloa gone she if you look at
18:16
Speaker 4: her resume, I mean she was one of the ninety
18:18
Speaker 4: nine ers. She won a World Cup, she won two
18:20
Speaker 4: Olympic gold She was part of the greatest dynasty American
18:24
Speaker 4: sports has ever seen with the University of North Carolina team.
18:27
Speaker 4: After she retired, she was a manager for a year
18:30
Speaker 4: one title with Portland. So at the very top, there's
18:34
Speaker 4: a soccer person who has unimpeachable credentials, right, and part
18:39
Speaker 4: of her job has to be delegating. Now, it is
18:44
Speaker 4: fair of the question whether she's great at that because
18:49
Speaker 4: there's been mixed in terms of the men's and the women's,
18:52
Speaker 4: and the men's side has been kind of a mess
18:53
Speaker 4: of the women's side has been pretty killer for a
18:56
Speaker 4: long time. But I don't necessarily hate the idea of
19:03
Speaker 4: streamlining the org chart and eliminating the sporting director job
19:10
Speaker 4: when it wasn't clear that the last sporting director we
19:14
Speaker 4: had was anything but an asset and a CV.
19:22
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's I think that's totally fair, Matt.
19:25
Speaker 1: But but I think you know in that case, and
19:27
Speaker 1: I would agree with you if you know, if her
19:30
Speaker 1: credentials are such that you know she she can make
19:34
Speaker 1: all of those decisions and she can take the men's
19:37
Speaker 1: program to the right place, then we need to hear
19:41
Speaker 1: what that's about. Because we haven't heard from her since
19:43
Speaker 1: the whole project, project project, you know, press conference, you know, like,
19:48
Speaker 1: what is it? Where are we going? How does how
19:50
Speaker 1: does she want the men's team to play? What is
19:54
Speaker 1: the plan to get us to play that way? How
19:56
Speaker 1: is player development connected to the way she wants to
20:00
Speaker 1: us to play? Because now it's been like eight years
20:02
Speaker 1: she's been there. It's not like she's been there for
20:03
Speaker 1: five minutes, like we haven't heard that this and eight
20:07
Speaker 1: years and that's why I personally think we need a change.
20:09
Speaker 1: Had she gotten there last year, maybe we can say, hey,
20:12
Speaker 1: she hasn't had enough time to communicate to the country
20:15
Speaker 1: what we're going to look like. No, there's been there's
20:18
Speaker 1: been eight years where she's been in North Carolina instead
20:21
Speaker 1: of in Chicago. You know, that's a long time. So
20:24
Speaker 1: I think maybe that's why I'm saying, maybe we need
20:26
Speaker 1: somebody that comes in, and you're right, maybe sporting director
20:30
Speaker 1: is not the answer, but it's somebody somebody who leads
20:33
Speaker 1: us in that direction.
20:35
Speaker 3: We're going to continue the conversation in a minute, but
20:37
Speaker 3: it's time for a quick break. When we come back,
20:39
Speaker 3: we're going to talk about the big issue of player
20:41
Speaker 3: development in this country.
20:42
Speaker 2: So please rate, review, and subscribe.
20:44
Speaker 3: To Inside American Soccer with Tom Bogeran and tab Ramos
20:46
Speaker 3: Reveriets your podcast. Another kind of really nuanced and deep
21:00
Speaker 3: station is player development player pathways. As we hear this,
21:04
Speaker 3: there used to be a joke about when sports talk radio,
21:08
Speaker 3: like in the dead of summer, when they had nothing
21:09
Speaker 3: to do, it was like, all right, how do we
21:11
Speaker 3: fix baseball? The soccer version of that in this country
21:14
Speaker 3: is development academy, pay to play, all these things, particularly
21:18
Speaker 3: when people who aren't soccer people like great for them
21:22
Speaker 3: to have opinions and thoughts like, but it's usually like, hey,
21:24
Speaker 3: my son plays soccer at this club and I kind
21:26
Speaker 3: of don't like It's it's usually where a lot of
21:28
Speaker 3: that is coming from. And this discussion has reignited again,
21:32
Speaker 3: and when we're talking about developmental pathways, I want to
21:36
Speaker 3: point out that, of course, I think I think I
21:38
Speaker 3: can speak for all three of us that we would
21:40
Speaker 3: love it that every every kid in this country, whether
21:44
Speaker 3: they have money or don't have money in their families,
21:46
Speaker 3: they have access to to you know, their own cars
21:48
Speaker 3: or not, and transportation, Like we want them to be
21:51
Speaker 3: able to play and develop and be seen and have
21:55
Speaker 3: the chance to get bro have the chance they have
21:57
Speaker 3: the best coaching they can. I think that is that
21:59
Speaker 3: is univers all, that's what we want. How do we
22:01
Speaker 3: get there is one thing and another thing is I
22:06
Speaker 3: think the nuance in this conversation one of the aspects
22:09
Speaker 3: that's been lost is Yeah, maybe in two thousand and
22:11
Speaker 3: five that was really bad. I think in twenty twenty six,
22:16
Speaker 3: the developmental pathways from MLS academies and US soccer startist
22:20
Speaker 3: with with the DA TAP, but particularly with MLS academies,
22:24
Speaker 3: they are free. They just don't start at U six
22:27
Speaker 3: because what is the point it's starting so early. I
22:29
Speaker 3: was talking to a high ranked executive at an MLS
22:31
Speaker 3: club and he kind of pointed that out too. Is
22:33
Speaker 3: just like yeah, like that if we started like a
22:36
Speaker 3: U eight team, this has no bearing on what kids
22:39
Speaker 3: are going pro So like, it's not about us wasting money.
22:42
Speaker 3: It's like we don't want to waste their time. Like
22:44
Speaker 3: if you're seven years old, if you live two hours
22:46
Speaker 3: from our facility, you shouldn't have to be doing four
22:49
Speaker 3: hours of driving to go to a training set. It's
22:51
Speaker 3: like you can say at your local clubs. So I
22:54
Speaker 3: think I think Doyle, I know that that you had
22:57
Speaker 3: a good post on tactics Free Zone about and I
23:01
Speaker 3: think that in one hand, I agree like the less
23:04
Speaker 3: and less and less we can do pay to play
23:06
Speaker 3: stuff and the more and more access every kid can
23:08
Speaker 3: have is better. But also things have improved, Things have
23:12
Speaker 3: improved a lot.
23:14
Speaker 4: I think so. Yeah, And just think about when TAP
23:17
Speaker 4: took over the U twenty three or the U twenties
23:20
Speaker 4: back in what was it twenty eleven, was your first cohort. Yeah,
23:24
Speaker 4: you had a team of college kids. You didn't have
23:28
Speaker 4: access to guys who were getting real pro minutes. And
23:31
Speaker 4: you look at the last team that came through, it
23:34
Speaker 4: was all pros. I don't think there was a single
23:35
Speaker 4: college kid on the team. As measurable growth, US has
23:38
Speaker 4: made five six straight quarterfinals at the U twenty level
23:43
Speaker 4: that started with you. I think you had three of
23:45
Speaker 4: them as head coach. And it's just building strength upon strength.
23:50
Speaker 4: That is a big one. What I think the role
23:54
Speaker 4: of the Federation should be in this is twofold one
23:57
Speaker 4: is more coaching. It makes it easier to get training
24:02
Speaker 4: so that we can get coaches at the early levels.
24:05
Speaker 4: You know, obviously U seven to U ten, but then
24:08
Speaker 4: really you eleven to U fourteen, which is where we
24:11
Speaker 4: see a real leak of kids into other sports. And
24:15
Speaker 4: then more scouting, because even if every MLS team has
24:19
Speaker 4: a free academy, they're not going to be able to
24:23
Speaker 4: reach every part of the country. We're just a huge country, man,
24:26
Speaker 4: it's just geographically impossible. But we could have scouts, and
24:30
Speaker 4: those scouts could actually double as coaches who give training
24:33
Speaker 4: on the ground to local dads and moms who don't
24:39
Speaker 4: know a ton about soccer but want their kids to
24:41
Speaker 4: have some sort of pathway. And that is where any
24:45
Speaker 4: not that the federation has gotten from this World Cup,
24:49
Speaker 4: that seems to me the right place to spend it.
24:56
Speaker 1: You know, at Tom, I would just I would add
24:58
Speaker 1: that again, like I said, with US soccer first, we
25:03
Speaker 1: need a direction of where we want to go, right
25:06
Speaker 1: because everybody right now is saying whether it's pay to play,
25:09
Speaker 1: which is really a ridiculous conversation because there's pay to
25:12
Speaker 1: play all over the world. MLS does his job. They
25:17
Speaker 1: have a free academy for the best players. So you
25:20
Speaker 1: can't put this on MLS. This is not MLS. This
25:23
Speaker 1: is not MLS's responsibility to develop all of the players
25:28
Speaker 1: of the United States. Just like it's not for Real
25:31
Speaker 1: Madrid or Barcelona or Manchester United or anyone else. They
25:34
Speaker 1: have their academy, they select the best players from the
25:37
Speaker 1: market and they start developing them at whatever age you know, ten, twelve, thirteen.
25:42
Speaker 1: But these are players who are already the best players
25:44
Speaker 1: in the market. Right. So but I would go a
25:48
Speaker 1: little bit further because obviously that the answer to that
25:51
Speaker 1: is culture. Right when is it that we're going to get?
25:54
Speaker 1: And I think I think you know, knowing the effects
25:57
Speaker 1: that World Cup ninety four had in soccer, and this
26:00
Speaker 1: is the reason we can have shows like this. This
26:03
Speaker 1: is why we're here because in nineteen ninety four, all
26:06
Speaker 1: of these things have happened because nineteen ninety four World
26:09
Speaker 1: Cup was successful, and that's a great thing. So my
26:12
Speaker 1: point with that is the effects of the twenty twenty
26:16
Speaker 1: six World Cup will be felt for the next couple
26:18
Speaker 1: of decades, and in one of the ways that we'll
26:21
Speaker 1: feel them is how deep we can get into the
26:24
Speaker 1: American culture Because ultimately, I know people talk about culture,
26:28
Speaker 1: but until we get to the point where somewhere in
26:31
Speaker 1: Middle America, some kid is born and he's given a
26:35
Speaker 1: soccer ball before something else, it's going to be hard
26:39
Speaker 1: to compete against the rest of the world. And when
26:41
Speaker 1: I say compete, I don't mean we can't compete. We
26:43
Speaker 1: are competing now against the rest of the world. We
26:46
Speaker 1: can beat anyone any time, but we're not at the
26:49
Speaker 1: level of the first seven or eight. And it's very
26:51
Speaker 1: difficult to cut the gap, as you mentioned on the
26:54
Speaker 1: last show, from fifteen to eight. It's easy to go
26:58
Speaker 1: from one hundred to fifteen there one hundred to thirty,
27:01
Speaker 1: like Canada has done, but it's hard to go from
27:03
Speaker 1: fifteen to eight. And that's gonna happen with culture. And
27:07
Speaker 1: that's the first part of it, and that's a part
27:09
Speaker 1: that the three of us can't solve. That's gonna take time,
27:12
Speaker 1: that's gonna take people watching more soccer over the years.
27:15
Speaker 1: And this twenty six World Cup, believe me, has cut
27:19
Speaker 1: the gap on that and we will feel the effects
27:21
Speaker 1: of that. But here's the other part. When people want
27:23
Speaker 1: to get specific about youth development and say we have
27:26
Speaker 1: to do such and such, or we have to take
27:29
Speaker 1: coaches to a certain level, but wait a minute before
27:32
Speaker 1: we take coaches to use six all over the country.
27:35
Speaker 1: Before US Soccer sponsors use six coaches through every state,
27:40
Speaker 1: tell me what we want players to look like. Are
27:43
Speaker 1: we looking for Vitinya or Petrie or are we looking
27:46
Speaker 1: for a Bellingham or a de Bruyna. These are different players.
27:52
Speaker 1: Are we looking for an Enzo Fernandez type play? These
27:55
Speaker 1: are all different and you have to wait to see
27:57
Speaker 1: what the market spits out to you. We can't have
28:00
Speaker 1: every player be the same. There's different positions, So no
28:04
Speaker 1: one coach is gonna fix it at you six. It's
28:07
Speaker 1: gonna take time. I think we're moving in the right direction.
28:10
Speaker 1: I think it's normal when we You know, the reason
28:13
Speaker 1: all these conversations are going because we can debate about
28:16
Speaker 1: whether Mariso Pochettino and the team were successful or not.
28:19
Speaker 1: But the fact is the reason we're having all of
28:21
Speaker 1: these debates all over the country right now about youth
28:24
Speaker 1: development is because most people think we failed. That's why.
28:28
Speaker 1: Because if everybody thought we did great, that's your answer.
28:31
Speaker 1: You don't have to ask anyone if it was a
28:33
Speaker 1: failure or not. The answer is in the market. Everyone's
28:36
Speaker 1: talking about youth development, which means they think our senior
28:39
Speaker 1: national team failed. That's what people think. That's why we're
28:41
Speaker 1: talking about it. And so my answer to all of
28:44
Speaker 1: that will be Man, it's gonna take time. This world
28:47
Speaker 1: couple will do a lot for our future, and we
28:49
Speaker 1: have to be a little bit more patient. I'm gonna say.
28:51
Speaker 1: I'm not saying sit back and do nothing. This is
28:53
Speaker 1: why we're talking about US soccer and bringing the right
28:56
Speaker 1: people to have a vision down the road. But all
28:59
Speaker 1: of that is gonna take time.
29:01
Speaker 3: I think that's really well said, Tab, And like you said,
29:03
Speaker 3: it's a very deep conversation new once and something that's
29:05
Speaker 3: going to take time, and I look forward to seeing
29:08
Speaker 3: how it's going to develop. I'm doing my part. My
29:10
Speaker 3: five month old son, we have touches with the ball
29:12
Speaker 3: every morning. He doesn't know it's touching his feet. But
29:14
Speaker 3: we're doing genetically. I can't do you know where. We're
29:17
Speaker 3: gonna be pretty limited, but I'm doing my best culturally.
29:19
Speaker 3: But it's signed for quick break and we're gonna let
29:21
Speaker 3: Matt Doyle go. Please go subscribe to his newsletter Tactics
29:24
Speaker 3: fore Zone following social media, you'll see it there. Doyle,
29:27
Speaker 3: thanks for stopping by. Look forward to talking again soon.
29:29
Speaker 3: Everybody else that's signed for a break, we're gonna be
29:31
Speaker 3: right back. Tab is gonna give us his World Cup
29:33
Speaker 3: Final prediction, So please rate, review and.
29:35
Speaker 2: Subscribe to Inside American Soccer with Tom Boger.
29:37
Speaker 3: And Tom Ramles rever the podcast. Welcome back to Inside
29:49
Speaker 3: American Soccer tab. It's signed for our final prediction segment
29:53
Speaker 3: at this World Cup, presented by our friends at DraftKings,
29:56
Speaker 3: the sports app that moves with the game and is
29:58
Speaker 3: now available nationwide. Three pm Eastern, The Eyes of the
30:03
Speaker 3: World is back on New Jersey tab Spain for Argentina
30:06
Speaker 3: and the World Cup Final at MetLife Stadium. Draftings have
30:10
Speaker 3: Spain as the favorites at minus one forty four to
30:12
Speaker 3: lift the trophy tab. What is your breakdown or maybe
30:16
Speaker 3: the keys of the game that you're watching.
30:20
Speaker 1: Yeah, so I'll start by saying that my last DraftKings
30:23
Speaker 1: picks were not the best. Let's just say I went,
30:28
Speaker 1: I did go, oh for two.
30:29
Speaker 2: I really thought you were picking for the third place game.
30:32
Speaker 2: So you were two for two? There, Oh that's what
30:34
Speaker 2: it was.
30:34
Speaker 1: That's right. So that's right. I listen, I was one
30:37
Speaker 1: hundred percent on the third place game, so that that's
30:40
Speaker 1: a good part. You know, this is this is really
30:43
Speaker 1: interesting because you know what I saw from Argentina was
30:47
Speaker 1: this incredible ability.
30:49
Speaker 4: To just.
30:51
Speaker 1: Never die. I mean, it was just incredible what they
30:55
Speaker 1: did to England. And of course we we can blame
30:58
Speaker 1: you know, as people have. You know, they blame the
31:00
Speaker 1: coach on getting too defensive, but then of course if
31:03
Speaker 1: the coach doesn't go defensive and they lose the game,
31:05
Speaker 1: they're gonna blame him for not adding a defender, you know,
31:07
Speaker 1: that whole thing which happens to every coach all over
31:09
Speaker 1: the world. Right, But at the end of the day,
31:13
Speaker 1: that that never say die attitude from the Argentinan team.
31:17
Speaker 1: It's so hard to pick against, and it's so hard
31:21
Speaker 1: to pick against Messi, and what I want to say,
31:23
Speaker 1: potentially would be his last game with the national team.
31:26
Speaker 1: I mean, I can't imagine if Messi, if Messi wins
31:30
Speaker 1: this World Cup, that he doesn't just say thank you
31:33
Speaker 1: very much and see you later and goes.
31:35
Speaker 2: Really really quickly. You know I said that four years ago. Yeah, yeah,
31:39
Speaker 2: I'm done making that proclamation, right. I think you're right,
31:42
Speaker 2: But like I'm not gonna say it.
31:44
Speaker 1: I mean, I think we can we we could even
31:46
Speaker 1: say maybe he's playing better now than he was four
31:48
Speaker 1: years ago. I'm not sure it's different. I don't know
31:51
Speaker 1: that it's different. I mean, he is incredible, he's you know,
31:56
Speaker 1: and somehow he surprises us every time. Now, let me
32:00
Speaker 1: get to the Spain side, because Spain was one team
32:04
Speaker 1: for the whole tournament and became another team when they
32:07
Speaker 1: played France. And by the way, they didn't beat France
32:11
Speaker 1: by chance. They've beaten France the last three or four
32:13
Speaker 1: times they played them. They beat them in the last Euros.
32:17
Speaker 1: You know, it's hard to beat Spain if you can't
32:19
Speaker 1: get the ball, and Spain has the ball most of
32:22
Speaker 1: the time. And by the way, they made France because
32:27
Speaker 1: when you look at the possession percentage, it wasn't that
32:29
Speaker 1: different between the teams. But it's not an accurate picture
32:32
Speaker 1: of what happened because they only allowed to have France
32:35
Speaker 1: to have the ball on their side of the field,
32:37
Speaker 1: and so by pressing high, by meeting the ball high,
32:42
Speaker 1: they never gave the chance that England gave Argentina by dropping.
32:47
Speaker 1: And and I think if if Spain plays the game
32:52
Speaker 1: that they played against France, I don't see how Argentina
32:55
Speaker 1: can beat them flaws. You know, it's it's just such
32:59
Speaker 1: a it's just such a great team, you know, of course,
33:02
Speaker 1: rodri was incredible. That was also a great performance by
33:06
Speaker 1: a single player. But if there's one thing we can
33:09
Speaker 1: say about Spain is they're a real team. They're like
33:12
Speaker 1: a team from you know, from the goalkeeper to the
33:16
Speaker 1: center forward. They're a real team. And and and we
33:19
Speaker 1: can say that about Argentina too, because you can say, Okay,
33:21
Speaker 1: Molina is not a great right back, you can say
33:24
Speaker 1: the poll is maybe not an incredible midfield. It just
33:27
Speaker 1: works hard. But in the end you put them all
33:29
Speaker 1: together and you know, in the sum is bigger than
33:32
Speaker 1: the parts for both of these teams. So I think
33:36
Speaker 1: it's gonna be a great game. I can't wait to
33:38
Speaker 1: watch it. I know Argentina is gonna make it impossible
33:41
Speaker 1: for Spain to play. They're gonna be all over them.
33:43
Speaker 1: They're going to go right to the limit of the
33:45
Speaker 1: rules on Spain. But at the end of the day,
33:48
Speaker 1: if I have to put my money on one of
33:50
Speaker 1: one of the two teams, I'm gonna have to say
33:52
Speaker 1: my DraftKings pick is going to be Spain to Argentina.
33:55
Speaker 1: One Wow.
33:58
Speaker 3: I I like that would away. I think one of
34:01
Speaker 3: the things I like most that you said there was
34:03
Speaker 3: if Spain plays the way they do against France, I
34:05
Speaker 3: don't see them losing. I would feel that way against
34:08
Speaker 3: literally any team on the planet. That game, I can't
34:11
Speaker 3: say enough about it, and particularly Rodri and Fabian Ruiz.
34:16
Speaker 3: So I have I have a couple points of analysis
34:19
Speaker 3: of this game. One that's silly and two that is serious.
34:22
Speaker 3: I'll start with the silly one. This kind of reminds
34:24
Speaker 3: me of like I think that we could both say
34:26
Speaker 3: pretty maybe not pretty easily, but but Spain is the
34:30
Speaker 3: better team right on.
34:31
Speaker 2: Overall, they're the better team. Tap.
34:33
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, we can say that for sure. Yeah.
34:35
Speaker 3: So that's I feel for that point strongly too. So
34:37
Speaker 3: this brings me back to a couple recent Super Bowls
34:40
Speaker 3: to use an American analogy. Tampa Bay played the Chiefs
34:45
Speaker 3: or at COVID I think it was twenty twenty, twenty
34:47
Speaker 3: to one, whatever it was. The Chiefs were the better team.
34:49
Speaker 3: They had the up and coming rising star Patrick Mahomes
34:51
Speaker 3: when he was younger. At that point, well, the Bucks
34:53
Speaker 3: had Tom Brady, and then the Bucks won, and then
34:57
Speaker 3: the roles were kind of reversed. A couple of years ago,
35:00
Speaker 3: the Chiefs got to the Super Bowl and they were
35:02
Speaker 3: playing the Eagles. I think we all knew the Eagles
35:05
Speaker 3: were the better team, but the Chiefs had Patrick Mahomes
35:08
Speaker 3: and it was just like, well, you kind of blindly
35:10
Speaker 3: go there.
35:11
Speaker 2: But the Eagles won in they killed them.
35:14
Speaker 3: So that's how I like in this game, where it's
35:16
Speaker 3: like Spain are the better team, but you're just looking
35:18
Speaker 3: at Argentina like, but they have messy like I really,
35:20
Speaker 3: I really would probably defer that way. So in the
35:23
Speaker 3: more serious notes, one where this game I think could
35:27
Speaker 3: be one of loss is the midfield, because that's where
35:29
Speaker 3: Spain dominates controls games, but particularly the midfield and transition defense.
35:34
Speaker 3: What Fabian Ruiz and Rodri did even better than their passing,
35:37
Speaker 3: and by the way, their passing was stellar, was when
35:41
Speaker 3: France the few times they would win the ball and
35:44
Speaker 3: have an opportunity to go in transition touch line to
35:47
Speaker 3: touch line, Fabian Ruiz and Rodri, their intelligence of movement
35:51
Speaker 3: and timing of movement put out fires on transition moments
35:54
Speaker 3: for France better than anybody I've ever seen against France,
35:57
Speaker 3: and to a larger extent like PSG, because there's there's
36:01
Speaker 3: a bit of an overlap between like the franch national
36:03
Speaker 3: team and the way PSG plays and their firepower. That's
36:07
Speaker 3: where they're going to need to be stellar again against Argentina,
36:10
Speaker 3: because my other side of serious analysis is Argentina, more
36:15
Speaker 3: than I think any other world power at this World
36:17
Speaker 3: Cup is content without the ball. These guys are fine
36:21
Speaker 3: to suffer. They've got the strongest mentality the warriors. They're
36:25
Speaker 3: good because they know if we keep it nil nil,
36:27
Speaker 3: we got number ten and they don't. And anytime that
36:31
Speaker 3: we all we need is one moment. And they have
36:33
Speaker 3: this fighting spirit, this mentality where they're gonna be okay
36:36
Speaker 3: if they need to have their possession. So I think
36:39
Speaker 3: that that's a unique side of this game where Argentina
36:42
Speaker 3: aren't gonna be.
36:43
Speaker 2: Like desperate to like dominate the ball. Okay, you can
36:45
Speaker 2: have the ball.
36:45
Speaker 3: We're gonna we're gonna set up here and every inch
36:49
Speaker 3: of grass that you try to win, you're gonna have
36:50
Speaker 3: to fight like hell for and you're gonna feel it,
36:52
Speaker 3: and you're, like you said, they're gonna work the refs,
36:54
Speaker 3: they're gonna be very physical, they're gonna try to manage
36:57
Speaker 3: the game the best they can so that they're able
36:59
Speaker 3: to give the ball to Messi And I don't want
37:01
Speaker 3: to be so reductive because I think one of the best,
37:06
Speaker 3: Like it doesn't seem tactical for me, but for me,
37:09
Speaker 3: one of the best tactics is a coach who knows
37:12
Speaker 3: who you are. And this Argentina team more than anybody
37:15
Speaker 3: in the world, they know who they are, tad, And
37:17
Speaker 3: I think those are a couple of things that will
37:20
Speaker 3: determine this game.
37:21
Speaker 1: I you know, I really, I really like what you
37:23
Speaker 1: just said, and I didn't, you know, I didn't think
37:25
Speaker 1: of it that way. I really like that you said
37:28
Speaker 1: that if they're tied, they're okay because they know they
37:32
Speaker 1: have number ten. And that's just such a great to
37:34
Speaker 1: look at it. And how can you argue that because
37:36
Speaker 1: Argentina has to feel confident. I mean, right now, I
37:39
Speaker 1: think Argentina feels like they're winning the game already. You know,
37:42
Speaker 1: they have Messi and Spain doesn't, and and that's a
37:46
Speaker 1: big deal. So yeah, I mean, it's definitely it's definitely
37:48
Speaker 1: a game that can go either way. I think it's
37:50
Speaker 1: going to be a great final. We have the European
37:53
Speaker 1: champions playing against the South American champions. It's actually the
37:56
Speaker 1: best it's actually the best matchup we can have.
37:59
Speaker 3: Yeah, at the end of the tournament, I think the
38:00
Speaker 3: best four teams were in the semifinal and tap to
38:03
Speaker 3: your point, the reigning European winners and the reigning Coupe
38:07
Speaker 3: America winners are playing against each other in the final.
38:10
Speaker 2: It's Messi possibly.
38:12
Speaker 3: Had his last World Cup game, who knows that, but
38:14
Speaker 3: probably going to go back trying to go back to back.
38:17
Speaker 3: And then on the other the Spanish side, first we
38:19
Speaker 3: have the great team, but you have Liminium all the
38:21
Speaker 3: nineteen year old, the kid who's the air to Messi's throne,
38:24
Speaker 3: is what we all kind of expect he might be.
38:26
Speaker 3: And I don't know, there's just so much to unpack
38:28
Speaker 3: from this game. I can't wait to have.
38:30
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, it's it's gonna be great. And let's
38:32
Speaker 1: not forget Lea Mina male really has not showed up
38:36
Speaker 1: yet in the way we would have liked to have
38:38
Speaker 1: seen him in this World Cup and the way we
38:40
Speaker 1: thought he would be in this World Cup. Man, if
38:43
Speaker 1: he shows up in the final, this Spain team is
38:47
Speaker 1: gonna be that much better because they've pretty much I'm
38:50
Speaker 1: not you know, taking his effort away, but they've pretty
38:53
Speaker 1: much done it without him up until this point.
38:56
Speaker 3: Definitely without him being special or being so Like we're
38:59
Speaker 3: talking about the way that men can single handedly win
39:01
Speaker 3: game and win moments for for Argentina the same way
39:04
Speaker 3: Bellingham did for England, right, like the.
39:06
Speaker 2: Best player on these great, great teams.
39:09
Speaker 3: Like he won the penalty against France and I thought
39:12
Speaker 3: he was generally pretty good, but tab he was. He
39:14
Speaker 3: We're talking about Fabian Mares and Rodbery, not le mean
39:16
Speaker 3: him all from that game.
39:17
Speaker 2: Right, So to your.
39:19
Speaker 3: Point, they've been this good and there's another level that
39:23
Speaker 3: Lemnamal hasn't hit yet that we know is in him.
39:26
Speaker 1: Right, And let's face it, I think on Monday he
39:29
Speaker 1: will turn nineteen years old. It's time already, right, he.
39:33
Speaker 2: Just turned out literally like last week.
39:34
Speaker 1: It's crazy, Okay, So it was this Monday he turned nineteen. Yeah,
39:37
Speaker 1: I mean nineteen years old. It's time for you to
39:39
Speaker 1: be the best player in the world. Let's go. We've
39:42
Speaker 1: been waiting since he was sixteen. So no, but it's amazing.
39:46
Speaker 1: It's amazing how young he is and what the expectations
39:49
Speaker 1: are and really how great he is regardless of how
39:52
Speaker 1: he plays his final.
39:54
Speaker 3: I couldn't agree more to Tap. I think we've got
39:56
Speaker 3: an unbelievable final ahead of US. I can't wait to
39:59
Speaker 3: watch everybody listening. I hope you enjoy the final. I
40:01
Speaker 3: know you will, I know we will. So thank you
40:03
Speaker 3: for listening. Inside American Soccer. Please rate, review, and subscribe
40:06
Speaker 3: wherever you get your podcast.
40:07
Speaker 2: We will be back next week with a wrap up.
40:09
Speaker 3: Episode of the twenty twenty six World Cup and breaking
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