Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Strictly Come Hamster - Season 25 (with James Lark, Dylan Rees, Frazer Gregory, Ioan Morris)

Transcript

Strictly Come Hamster - Season 25 (with James Lark, Dylan Rees, Frazer Gregory, Ioan Morris) · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

• 0:00
  All right, come on, come and say hello.
• 0:05
  Hello. We're back and use the gun.
• 0:08
  Yes, I imagine he will. You like guns, don't you?
• 0:13
  This is a specialized weapon. It's designed for roof duty,
• 0:17
  designed for long range. I've never used one up close
• 0:19
  before. Let him go.
• 0:20
  No, no. Fag, let him come a little
• 0:25
  closer. So you are why?
• 0:28
  Scared. Why should you be scared?
• 0:30
  You're the one with a gun. That's right.
• 0:32
  And you like guns, don't you? You'll kill you.
• 0:34
  Of course you will. That's what guns are for.
• 0:36
  Call a trigger. End a life.
• 0:38
  Simple, isn't it? Yes.
• 0:39
  Makes sense, doesn't it? Yes.
• 0:41
  A life killing life. Who are you?
• 0:43
  Shut up. Why don't you do it then?
• 0:48
  You mean the eye pull? The trigger?
• 0:52
  End my life. No.
• 0:57
  Why not? I can't.
• 0:59
  Why not? I don't know, no.
• 1:03
  You don't do you throw away your gun.
• 1:45
  Today we go back to the most magical, never to be forgotten
• 1:49
  year of all, 1988. The sun was always shining, the
• 1:54
  clouds were those puffy white ones that stood out against the
• 1:57
  bluest of skies, and we rode our bicycles in the streets and left
• 2:01
  our front doors wide open and invited complete strain, which
• 2:04
  is into our schools, safe in the knowledge that whatever they
• 2:06
  did, they would never be caught. That's just Britain, a glorious,
• 2:11
  wealthy, optimistic and and, and, and wonderful, wonderful
• 2:15
  land in which everyone was a winner, assuming they were
• 2:18
  employed and not too old or I'll or promoting responsibility.
• 2:21
  And wasn't that optimism reflected in our daily lives
• 2:25
  everywhere we looked? President Ronald Reagan visited
• 2:28
  the UK, Paul Gascon was signed by Tottenham Hotspur and and the
• 2:32
  television The Empire Strikes Back premiered on ITV.
• 2:36
  The BBC lavishly adapted The Lion, the Witch and the
• 2:38
  Wardrobe. And it was the year that
• 2:40
  everyone started watching neighbors.
• 2:42
  Yeah, everyone, even my parents. The nation transplanted,
• 2:46
  transported even by, and some of them transplanted by the
• 2:50
  burgeoning romance of Scott and Charlene, a modern day Romeo and
• 2:53
  Juliet not only on our television screens, but also on
• 2:56
  our radios as Kylie Minogue and Jason Donovan sealed their
• 2:59
  reputation, the Prince and Princess of Pop with their chart
• 3:03
  topping duet. Especially for you, the ultimate
• 3:05
  Christmas number one that never was a Christmas #1 because the
• 3:08
  freaking Queen of Pop, Cliff Richard, released his famously
• 3:11
  cynical mistletoe and wine the same week.
• 3:13
  What a time to be alive. We're.
• 3:16
  Not here. We're not here to talk about
• 3:19
  that. We're here to talk about another
• 3:20
  television phenomenon, one which was celebrating its 25th
• 3:23
  anniversary. Though I had yet to see a single
• 3:26
  episode. I recall the moment I saw the
• 3:28
  trailer in which that attractive and talented girl off corners
• 3:32
  shot a white robot with a bazooka, and I thought, that
• 3:35
  looks like the kind of telly I want to watch.
• 3:38
  So I immediately asked my mum. Can I watch Doctor Who tonight
• 3:42
  at 7:35 on BBC One? And she said no, That's when
• 3:47
  Coronation Street is on. Bugger.
• 3:50
  You see, we know, we know that Michael Grade didn't kill Doctor
• 3:53
  Who. We we know with hindsight that
• 3:54
  it had a glorious future ahead and would ultimately run until
• 3:58
  2025. But Grade's attempts at death by
• 4:02
  scheduling had consequences because not everyone had a beta
• 4:05
  Max. So this is this is my point
• 4:07
  really Michael Grade, you bloody bastard.
• 4:11
  You bloody ruined my childhood. Ruined it, you prick.
• 4:16
  I didn't realise this was going to be a therapy session, James.
• 4:20
  Wow. Welcome to Strictly Come
• 4:24
  Hamster. I'm James Lark and here to
• 4:26
  discuss the iconic season 25 of some people who may even have
• 4:29
  caught it the first time round. So welcome to Dylan Rees 1988 in
• 4:34
  Human Form, Boris, the 21st century's answer to Kev
• 4:39
  McCulloch. Oh wow.
• 4:40
  Razor Gregory, the person Whiz Kid would have become had he
• 4:43
  lived after episode 2 and a love child of Jason Donovan, Kylie
• 4:48
  Minogue and Cliff Richard himself, Joe Ford.
• 4:51
  Hello. Hello.
• 4:52
  Yes, very well. Thank you.
• 4:55
  You had to bring up Gaza, didn't you?
• 4:58
  I know that was like being force fed a ton of the 80s wasn't it
• 5:02
  then? I didn't know what was going on.
• 5:04
  I wasn't even sure I was on the right podcast.
• 5:06
  And then I received the greatest compliment I've ever received in
• 5:09
  my life. So thank you, James.
• 5:11
  It is a pleasure and and congratulations on on wearing
• 5:15
  that mantle so well. James, after all that, you know,
• 5:18
  I still don't really have a clue what we're here to talk about.
• 5:21
  Oh, I'm not sure. I didn't get your I've not read
• 5:23
  your messages yet. Hang on.
• 5:26
  Oh, season 25 of Doctor Who? Is that a real?
• 5:29
  That's the one. Great.
• 5:31
  I've not seen it. I.
• 5:34
  Thought we were doing neighbors. I wish I hadn't seen it, Jesus.
• 5:37
  You've got time to watch it while we read the comments, but.
• 5:43
  The Extended Edition. People like to be involved.
• 5:46
  You leave them alone. Before, before we hear what
• 5:49
  people who are not on this call, and there are plenty of those,
• 5:53
  let's face it, before we hear those opinions, shall we go
• 5:56
  round and just have a brief? What do we think of Season 25 as
• 6:00
  a whole? I'm going to go first to Dylan.
• 6:04
  Well, I'm a I'm a big McCoy fan. It's my favorite era of the
• 6:08
  classic show. I got into Doctor Who the year
• 6:12
  after this 1989, you know, great year to get into something that
• 6:16
  was going to disappear for 16 years.
• 6:19
  So I'm very, very fond of the whole era.
• 6:22
  And I sort of discovered it as it was released on VHS, the 24
• 6:26
  and 25, and I've got a lot of affection for it, but that
• 6:31
  doesn't necessarily mean that I think all of it's very good.
• 6:36
  I think, I think Dylan, you and I are similar in that we've
• 6:40
  maybe struggled to be very objective about this era of
• 6:43
  Doctor Who. Yeah, I think there is that.
• 6:45
  But today I've tried to be as objective as possible, so there
• 6:50
  will be some. Negativity.
• 6:52
  But largely positive because it is, you know, it's a show on its
• 6:55
  way to greatness, which I think the last season really, really
• 7:00
  nails like the the McCoy era by that season 26 is begging for a
• 7:04
  season 27, not the ship one we got 20 years later, but like an
• 7:09
  actual continuation of that. And so and so there are some
• 7:13
  great highs. There's a couple of sort of
• 7:16
  middling bits and there's a couple of lows as well.
• 7:18
  But when it's when this season's on form, it's as good as any
• 7:22
  other bits of Doctor Who that you can get.
• 7:25
  I have heard that if you give Ian Levine £50 you will get a
• 7:28
  season 27. Excellent.
• 7:30
  I mean, are you talking about he's already done it, It's on
• 7:33
  YouTube. Or is it?
• 7:35
  Yeah, it's got. What it's going to give him £50?
• 7:37
  Stills all over it playing. No, that's the that's the
• 7:42
  original trial of a Time Lord. He hasn't.
• 7:44
  He hasn't done 27. Probably because he doesn't like
• 7:46
  McCoy or something. Probably because he just hasn't
• 7:49
  got enough money. Give him £50 kids, it'll happen.
• 7:51
  Just say. In action or whatever it was.
• 7:54
  Isn't there a an extended version of Downtime which in a
• 8:00
  scene with Ian Levine? Well, it's not actually, Ian.
• 8:03
  Levine. It's Spodgun from bottom that we
• 8:07
  somehow got in to do it and everybody thinks it's Ian
• 8:09
  Levine, but it's not. Like he's talking to Gruntly the
• 8:13
  Ogron as well. In that scene he's wearing a
• 8:15
  sort of gorilla mask, isn't he? Padma Samnava.
• 8:17
  Sylvester McCoy was told he was doing it for the BBC for the DVD
• 8:21
  range and they paid him up front so he couldn't, he couldn't get
• 8:24
  out of it. And then someone called him and
• 8:26
  said, you know, it's just a mad fan.
• 8:27
  And he was like, oh, give them the money back and they wouldn't
• 8:30
  accept it, so we have to go and do it.
• 8:32
  Excuse me, this is not too hot for TV, All right?
• 8:36
  Sorry. The only time McCoy has ever
• 8:39
  done something stupid for a mad fan.
• 8:42
  Let's come to Joan. Would you like to tell us what
• 8:45
  you think about season 25? I would, yeah.
• 8:47
  I just want to say firstly, it's a pleasure to be here.
• 8:49
  I've spent many a long walk listening to Strictly and
• 8:53
  cursing all your terrible opinions, so I'm thrilled to be
• 8:57
  here to be able to curse you to your face.
• 9:00
  Maybe it's been a success, you know, if you've been cursing us.
• 9:03
  Yeah, absolutely. And I'm very pleased to be able
• 9:06
  to share some of my own terrible opinions with it.
• 9:09
  But on Season 25, it's great. What I love about this era, the
• 9:15
  McCoy era generally, is that they're never satisfied with
• 9:18
  doing just another Doctor Who story.
• 9:22
  And even if it doesn't always work, I think that kind of
• 9:25
  ambition is really admirable and necessary for the continuation
• 9:29
  of Doctor Who during the 90s, even if it wasn't on TV.
• 9:33
  That kind of enthusiasm and wealth of ideas is what sparked
• 9:38
  the people who would then go on to make it when it came back on
• 9:41
  TV. It's a whole new take on the
• 9:44
  show. Much more interesting approach
• 9:46
  to the companion and the Doctor, sometimes overstuffed, sometimes
• 9:51
  lacking in clarity and a bit lacking in the execution.
• 9:57
  But on the other hand, there's something about this era where
• 10:01
  you're not able to quite get a grip on some of the stories, but
• 10:05
  that's what I find appealing about them.
• 10:08
  You don't stop watching it and that's just the end of the
• 10:10
  story. You're thinking about the ideas
• 10:12
  afterwards. So I will happily watch this
• 10:16
  idea, which watch this season rather, that is fizzing with
• 10:20
  ideas. But what I will do because of
• 10:24
  this sick format is commit to sending at least one of them to
• 10:28
  the bin. Yes.
• 10:29
  You know why? You know you're not getting all
• 10:31
  of it when you're watching it. Because those scripts were so
• 10:34
  long, all the explanations were edited out of them.
• 10:36
  You know, so they keep the set pieces in.
• 10:38
  Yes, some very important stuff that they kept more important
• 10:42
  than the plot apparently during some of the stories, but.
• 10:45
  Ian Levine jumping in a river, stuff like that, yeah.
• 10:48
  Cartmel was big on script, but not script editing.
• 10:50
  You only like the one part of his his his title.
• 10:53
  There was something of it he couldn't quite.
• 10:55
  He couldn't quite get the length down, could he?
• 10:58
  Excuse me, what site? Heart, whoever he might be,
• 11:01
  famous phrase. He says.
• 11:02
  He's a good script editor, but he's a terrible editor of
• 11:05
  scripts. Yeah, I'm not sure I entirely
• 11:08
  agree. I've said this before, I think
• 11:10
  Cartmel is is editing scripts for a different pace, and I
• 11:13
  think if they were delivered and filmed like Buffy the Vampire
• 11:16
  Slayer, they would come in absolutely on time.
• 11:19
  But the BBC wasn't doing that in 19. 80 Surely that's his job as
• 11:23
  a script editor. I'm sure that he is right in
• 11:25
  scripts that are for the time TV was being made.
• 11:29
  One of the things that we get from Cardinals, everything he's
• 11:32
  written about the errors, just one of frustrated ambition.
• 11:34
  Like this is what it was meant to be like and this is what it
• 11:37
  came out like. And, and I just suspect that a
• 11:40
  young, ambitious script editor thought it could be done at the
• 11:45
  kind of speed that it was meant to be done.
• 11:47
  Yeah, I think the inexperience is to his benefit and detriment
• 11:51
  is because he's got so much enthusiasm for the ideas, but
• 11:55
  then can't quite make them happen because he doesn't have
• 11:58
  the experience necessary. I do think it comes to something
• 12:02
  though, and I'm skipping forward a season now where in the Ghost
• 12:05
  like DVD he feels the need to explain in the documentary what
• 12:09
  the plot was all about because it's not there in the story.
• 12:11
  Yeah, you shouldn't. Need a script.
• 12:13
  Book. No.
• 12:14
  Exactly. I think I think nostalgia
• 12:17
  blindness is real for this era and people that loved it when
• 12:20
  they were younger are a little blind to some of its flaws as TV
• 12:27
  that was being made at the time. And I understand that because
• 12:30
  I'm blind. I have nostalgia blindness to
• 12:32
  stuff I love when I was younger so I absolutely get it.
• 12:35
  I'm sensing you have opinions, Joe.
• 12:37
  I do. And that you maybe feel like
• 12:39
  you're fight, you're fighting the nostalgia blindness to to
• 12:42
  give us some. Well, yeah, otherwise it's just
• 12:44
  going to be adult loving. I'm I'm up for adult.
• 12:48
  Hands up, who's up for adult loving?
• 12:52
  That's three of. US.
• 12:54
  Yeah, I'm, I'm having the excitement of him.
• 12:57
  Thank you. This is going to be fun.
• 12:59
  On there, Joe, tell us, tell us the truth about this season.
• 13:02
  Well, my truth for this season is I think it's got some of the
• 13:05
  best set pieces we've ever had in Doctor Who, but it's also got
• 13:09
  moments where it barely functions as television and it
• 13:12
  flip flops between the two. I think James used it to be in a
• 13:16
  message earlier sometimes, like exactly the same time.
• 13:18
  It's alarming actually, when that happens.
• 13:21
  It's sunny and it's confident, but it does have a little whiff
• 13:25
  at the embarrassment of its limitations at times.
• 13:29
  I think it's fun, it's ambitious, it's imaginative.
• 13:32
  They're trying to do far more than they can achieve on this
• 13:35
  budget and I think Doctor Who should always do that.
• 13:38
  One of these stories is TV being made ten years previously and
• 13:43
  one of these stories is TV being made ten years in the future,
• 13:46
  and I'm looking forward to talking about both of them.
• 13:49
  Fraser. Yeah, so I, you know, totally
• 13:54
  understand this, this argument of nostalgia blindness.
• 13:57
  But I, I prefer to call it nostalgia armor.
• 14:00
  I think, you know, it's, it's protects the Series A little bit
• 14:03
  because, you know, ultimately this is this is where everything
• 14:07
  begins for me as a Doctor Who fan.
• 14:09
  This is my entry into Doctor Who, much like you would
• 14:13
  describe in there. James, you know, I that I
• 14:15
  remember sitting down at 25 to 8 on that Wednesday evening when
• 14:19
  Remembrance of the Daleks Part 1 came on and I remember sitting
• 14:23
  watching that it's the first Doctor Who I properly remember
• 14:25
  sitting down and watching. I know I must have seen Doctor
• 14:28
  Who because it's in my mind, you know, I've got flashes.
• 14:32
  I remember like being scared of Daleks and the most mandala had
• 14:37
  memory of of Colin regenerating into Sylvester Mackay.
• 14:41
  You can imagine. But this is, you know, this is
• 14:44
  the definite memory of sitting down, watching and enjoying in
• 14:48
  like I said, this, it just starts here.
• 14:50
  You know, we start with remembrance.
• 14:51
  We go into happiness and then self an emesis, you know, and
• 14:54
  then we're into 26 and then from 26 we're on into, you know,
• 15:00
  collecting DVDs, you know, watching whatever I can,
• 15:04
  wherever I can find it to see DVDs.
• 15:07
  I think VHS is obviously, you know, and then we're in
• 15:11
  everything. But it all starts here, all
• 15:13
  starts for season 25. So it doesn't make me blind.
• 15:17
  You know, I can totally see what the limitations are of these
• 15:21
  stories because, yes, we are a production club team at the at
• 15:26
  this time, you know, making what they can with what they've got
• 15:30
  and really, really, really pushing that.
• 15:32
  And yes, sometimes it doesn't quite come off the way you want
• 15:35
  and sometimes it it does. But, you know, that's always
• 15:38
  been the story of Doctor Who, Doctor Who's always had
• 15:40
  production strife and it's always, you know, been Hanford
• 15:45
  by this budget. But you know, I've never let
• 15:47
  that stop me in the past. I'm never going to let it stop
• 15:51
  me in the future. I will not let it stop me in
• 15:53
  this. So I see it's all my, my, my
• 15:56
  feelings to all this, the memories I have of watching this
• 15:58
  and the company I was in at the time, which we're going to come
• 16:00
  to in the fullness of time. You know, it, it gives it a bit
• 16:04
  of armour, which makes it a bit more defendable.
• 16:08
  You know, when people are are kind of attacking because
• 16:12
  ultimately I can just do a bit of a Lucy McCall and I can go So
• 16:14
  fuck, I love this. I love watching this.
• 16:17
  I love watching these four stories because they mean a hell
• 16:21
  of a lot to me personally. Well, anyone could say that
• 16:24
  about any story they love. It wouldn't be a very good
• 16:26
  podcast. Well, you all.
• 16:29
  The. Time.
• 16:30
  What about you then, James? Well.
• 16:34
  I, I mean, I'm telling the truth about Coronation Street.
• 16:37
  I, I did not watch these on broadcast.
• 16:39
  And I was fortunate in that I had a best friend who had
• 16:43
  videoed parts 2 to 4 of Remembrance of the Daleks, and
• 16:46
  that's what got me into it. But I didn't see the rest of
• 16:50
  this season until quite a lot late and it was that kind of era
• 16:55
  of them coming out on VHS. In fact the the 1st Doctor Who
• 17:00
  video I bought was that shiny shiny silver Nemesis one that
• 17:04
  came out and by golly the excitement of going home with
• 17:08
  that. I mean it wasn't nostalgia
• 17:11
  blindness, it was ownership blindness.
• 17:15
  Nothing. I mean it could have been, it
• 17:17
  could have been time flight in that shiny HS case.
• 17:20
  I would have loved it and I would have taken it to every
• 17:23
  single one of my friends houses, as indeed I did.
• 17:26
  James was it that one with that fabulous Canadian documentary on
• 17:29
  it? The Canadian documentary.
• 17:30
  Come on, let's make magic that one.
• 17:33
  That's the one. That's the one.
• 17:36
  So the the memory I have of this actually of of 1988 itself is,
• 17:42
  is simply this that it was. And I don't think people don't
• 17:47
  remember this because the the myth is that it wasn't happening
• 17:50
  by the mid 80s, but there was it was talked about in the
• 17:53
  playground. There was genuine excitement.
• 17:55
  People were talking about the Daleks.
• 17:57
  Do you remember that trailer that had a clip of William
• 17:59
  Hartnell before it had the the clip of the Cybermen arriving or
• 18:03
  it was it was one of the silver Nemesis trailers actually opened
• 18:05
  up with here's here's a black and white clip of Doctor Who
• 18:08
  when it. By.
• 18:10
  Golly that that blue are tiny minds.
• 18:13
  The the because of course, that clip looked like it was about
• 18:16
  100 years old and we were kind of obsessed with it.
• 18:20
  We used to play my friends Matthew and Eamon and myself
• 18:24
  used to play the three doctors and and Matthew was Peter
• 18:29
  Davison. I was Sylvester McCoy and and my
• 18:31
  friend Eamon, on the basis of a single clip was Hartnell and and
• 18:38
  his his entire interpretation of the first Doctor was the the 1st
• 18:43
  Doctor trying to communicate in sign language to giant ants
• 18:46
  anyway days. So there was a real buzz, a real
• 18:51
  thrill, a real sense of excitement, and the Daleks were
• 18:54
  coming back and the Sidemen were coming back.
• 18:55
  And, and I also think there's something about the the team you
• 19:02
  can find fault if you're, if you're so inclined, in both
• 19:06
  performances of McCoy and Aldred.
• 19:08
  And I'm sure at least one of us will will take great pleasure in
• 19:11
  doing that. However, as a duo, they are
• 19:14
  iconic. There's something about them
• 19:16
  that just works in a way that I'm not sure Doctor Who had had
• 19:18
  for quite a long time. They just look great together
• 19:21
  and there's a chemistry that is actually quite hard to define
• 19:25
  when they're on the screen. And, and it gives the whole era
• 19:29
  a, a, a really unique flavour. And so I think that there is a
• 19:34
  reason for that nostalgia blindness, because I think it's
• 19:37
  it's there's something about it that's so evocative in a way
• 19:40
  that Sylvester McCoy and Bonnie Langford isn't quite the minute
• 19:44
  you've got McCoy and Aldridge on screen together, suddenly you've
• 19:47
  got an image that is just and, and, and, and what it is, is
• 19:50
  it's Cardinal's vision for this slightly comic book inspired
• 19:54
  Doctor Who actually coming to fruition in a way that he that
• 19:58
  doesn't quite work, much as I love it in season 24, in season
• 20:01
  25, I think it's the most comic book season of the era.
• 20:06
  I think it goes in a different direction in 26.
• 20:09
  And I think as we've said, it's it's hugely ambitious and wildly
• 20:14
  uneven as a result, massively compromised.
• 20:16
  And Cardinal was the first person to complain about how his
• 20:19
  own ideas were realized. But what ambition and what
• 20:24
  vision? I know you was talking about me
• 20:27
  then well when you was mentioning.
• 20:28
  Sophie. Aldridge.
• 20:29
  I'll have you know, I think Sophie Aldridge is generally
• 20:32
  fine this season. I'll send this to you guys in a
• 20:34
  message because I think for most of the season she's just playing
• 20:37
  Sophie Aldridge, having fun adventures.
• 20:39
  She really got to actually not really pushing her too much.
• 20:41
  She's the fun psychic. It's next year where she's asked
• 20:44
  to do a lot of drama. That's where she falls on her
• 20:48
  face. But I think this year she's
• 20:49
  you're right. They've got fabulous chemistry.
• 20:53
  It's a bit of. Drama.
• 20:55
  There's there's there's Mike being scared of clowns.
• 21:00
  She's got death. She's got that friend she made
• 21:02
  after about 5 minutes, so she's really upset that she's.
• 21:05
  Got friends? If you say so.
• 21:09
  Should we hear the comments from the listeners beyond this?
• 21:13
  Oh. Those people, yeah, don't worry,
• 21:17
  guys. They're all positive, all right?
• 21:19
  You're going to be quite happy. All right, let's kick off then
• 21:23
  with Rihanna Evans, who says adore it.
• 21:26
  Unbelievably ambitious, totally unique.
• 21:29
  The Happiness Patrol is a piece of modern art, whilst
• 21:31
  Remembrance is a landmark in Doctor Who history that changed
• 21:35
  it forever. More like a Jackson Pollock.
• 21:38
  Sorry, I didn't. Johnny Morris.
• 21:41
  I love the first one and the last one.
• 21:43
  I like the idea of the Happiness Patrol, but it feels like it was
• 21:46
  done in a mad rush. I expect it was, and it shows.
• 21:50
  And it's quite poorly edited. Sylvan Nemesis has the
• 21:53
  traditional vast gulf between ambition and execution that we
• 21:58
  fans all know and love so well. I wonder we write such great
• 22:02
  books. It talks a great sense.
• 22:04
  Chris Curtis says one of my favourite 80 seasons.
• 22:08
  There are very few missteps. The balance between camp,
• 22:10
  spectacle, action and ideas just right and so much better than
• 22:14
  the previous one. Every element is working hard
• 22:17
  and you can see it on the screen.
• 22:19
  It is camping it. This.
• 22:21
  Year is camp, yes. Eddie Arnold, son of John, says
• 22:27
  Just because it's my father's favorite season, I oppose every
• 22:30
  comment he says. So if you don't been great a
• 22:34
  show, I'm sending you all in as the next acts to be obliterated.
• 22:39
  This is our act, unfortunately, and I hope you're enjoying it.
• 22:43
  PJ Gallery, he of the lovely Pecs.
• 22:47
  Oh, I added that bit. Have you seen?
• 22:48
  This picture. Have you seen this picture on
• 22:51
  Twitter? No, I've not.
• 22:52
  PJ Gallery, please post some more.
• 22:55
  This. Currently being displayed on the
• 22:58
  the laser display board for. Thank you.
• 23:02
  This and the following year were the pinnacle of 80s Doctor Who.
• 23:06
  A crying shame we didn't get the final McCoy Cartmel season.
• 23:10
  The novelisations of seasons 25 and 26 are also some of the best
• 23:15
  in the range. David GP Is that a Gillespie
• 23:19
  Pratt? It is.
• 23:21
  I feel like I know all these contributors so.
• 23:23
  Well. Second, the first season of
• 23:26
  Doctor Who I can clearly remember seeing on broadcast.
• 23:29
  I can remember being told off by my mum for saying Doctor Who is
• 23:32
  shit and she was right to do so this season, as this season
• 23:38
  especially is not shit. So his mum said that, not him.
• 23:42
  Who said that? I need to know.
• 23:43
  No, he was told off by his mum. He said it was shit at the time
• 23:46
  and now he's learned I think. That's good.
• 23:49
  Good. We all grow.
• 23:50
  Nipper, David GP What a cunt. Tim Carter The level of
• 23:58
  imagination for all the different stories is impressive
• 24:01
  and contains one of the all time great stories in remembrance.
• 24:04
  One of my all time favorite seasons.
• 24:07
  Anthony Carroll, Too broad and too deep, Cartmel is.
• 24:11
  Make that what you will. Think all Joe's added that bit.
• 24:14
  Again, it's the name of his. Podcast.
• 24:16
  I know, I know, I know. You're a dirty bitch.
• 24:18
  Joke Cartmel is in full swing, bringing people in who are
• 24:25
  brimming with with exciting ideas that sometimes are too
• 24:29
  broad and too deep for the small screen.
• 24:31
  But that never stops these episodes sizzling with talent,
• 24:34
  imagination, satire and juice Juicy performances.
• 24:38
  Season 25 will prevail. Pink heart he's.
• 24:42
  Talking about Fiona Walker isn't.
• 24:45
  He Dan Hollingsworth says 3 great stories are one story
• 24:48
  that's a bad copy of The Best but without the logical charm
• 24:52
  And which one he's talking about.
• 24:54
  Bear about Remembrance of the Daleks.
• 24:55
  Is it Silver Nemesis? Come on now.
• 24:58
  Glenn Fitzgerald, 25, is a good one overall with just the one
• 25:03
  week story for me. Daniel Knight season 25 is a
• 25:06
  mixed bag with air punching highs and excruciating lows.
• 25:10
  Sylvan Sophie hit the ground running and have an on screen
• 25:14
  chemistry not seen in Who since Tom and Liz.
• 25:18
  This is from Gareth, not Gareth Boli.
• 25:20
  Just Gareth. He says it's one of the
• 25:22
  stronger. He doesn't say that.
• 25:24
  He says it's one of the strongest.
• 25:26
  Remembrance being the pinnacle. Happiness and greatest are the
• 25:29
  weakest because they've got huge ideas that don't quite match the
• 25:32
  production. Great.
• 25:34
  Sure, is he? Oh sorry, paddle dry.
• 25:36
  Wasn't me, Motley Newbie the point where the show finally
• 25:40
  rediscovered itself after a few years of not being quite sure
• 25:43
  what it wanted to be? Cartmel had shaken things up in
• 25:46
  season 24, but season 25 is where it gelled.
• 25:49
  Season 25 is not only the best of the 80s, but one of the best
• 25:52
  of the entire run, correct? Andrew Tumble, this is how you
• 25:57
  do a huge step change in law. This is how you do gods.
• 26:02
  This is how you write malevolent human bad guys.
• 26:05
  Has RTD ever seen this season? Here we go.
• 26:09
  Trust you to go, Andrew Tumble. That's not even, that's not even
• 26:13
  on my list of comments. He just bloody snuck that one
• 26:16
  in, haven't you Dylan? Nice.
• 26:17
  It's it wasn't Andrew Tumble. It was real.
• 26:19
  And Dee so ever. Or Russell must be very
• 26:24
  difficult to him to listen to this pod cast these days.
• 26:26
  Oh, he turned off after flux. We lost everyone in flux, Moffy.
• 26:30
  Everyone. Yeah, and thanks to James, who
• 26:32
  have lost bloody Michael Gray from this one.
• 26:36
  Gareth Boli now the Gareth Boli a season that's a great one to
• 26:40
  show someone who has never seen Doctor Who before.
• 26:42
  It covers everything and it's four stories and is a production
• 26:45
  that delivers with conviction. Such a shame what was round the
• 26:48
  corner. I think season 26 is pretty good
• 26:50
  Gareth, but this one was pretty good too.
• 26:54
  Yeah, Melvin Pena, Lovely Dublin Melvin Pena all killer.
• 26:59
  No fella. What a brilliant season of
• 27:02
  Doctor Who. Might share more thoughts on
• 27:04
  Might not. Season 25 is a club banger.
• 27:08
  Yes, even silver Nemesis. I like these sarcastic inverted
• 27:13
  commas around Silver Nemesis. And I don't think he did.
• 27:16
  So he must have just thought that that's enough.
• 27:19
  John Arnold says flat out the greatest two season of all.
• 27:23
  The perfect balance of the whimsy of Season 24 and the
• 27:27
  darkness of Season 26. Big words, sigh, heart who some
• 27:32
  who may or may not know. I've never met him. 1988
• 27:36
  thirteen year old sigh got The Who he really wanted.
• 27:39
  Exciting, action-packed adventures and decidedly weird
• 27:43
  and wonderful stories. I hated the Happiness Patrol at
• 27:46
  the time. I've come to like it now, but
• 27:48
  the others I adored. Everyone at school adored Ace
• 27:51
  and loved Remembrance but they didn't stick with it sadly.
• 27:55
  Maybe they saw Sophie acting. Hey Joe, that.
• 27:59
  Is a distinct possibility, you know.
• 28:01
  That's not me saying that, it's just Joe's thoughts.
• 28:04
  Actress of the diverse portfolio.
• 28:07
  Yeah, God, I've since Doctor Who.
• 28:08
  She's done some meteoric work, hasn't she?
• 28:11
  Elva try Elva and Maureen's musicograms don't.
• 28:15
  Don't. Try.
• 28:16
  You're not seeing more than a Messiah.
• 28:19
  I have, yeah. I need to say though I need to
• 28:22
  say at this point this this sigh heart character keeps popping up
• 28:26
  on these. So I have went and done a little
• 28:28
  bit of digging to see who he is and what he's about.
• 28:31
  He's apparently some librarian with this massive fixation on
• 28:35
  Terminus. He just loves Terminus and keeps
• 28:38
  watching Terminus. But the other thing I found out
• 28:40
  is it's actually his 50th birthday today, so I just want
• 28:43
  to take the opportunity to stop the corn dead in its tracks and
• 28:47
  say happy birthday side hot. No, let's, let's sing to him.
• 28:50
  Come on. In the style of Marilyn Monroe.
• 28:53
  Absolutely. Happy birthday.
• 28:57
  Thanks, Joan. We're going, we're carrying on.
• 29:01
  Here, come on. No.
• 29:04
  One can add a bit of sense to this.
• 29:07
  Happy birthday you. Miss Happy.
• 29:18
  Birthday. To you, it won't still be his
• 29:25
  birthday in two weeks time when this airs.
• 29:27
  He'll appreciate the effort. Happy birthday, Sir.
• 29:30
  He'll. Appreciate that everyone sang to
• 29:32
  him. I didn't sing.
• 29:33
  Apart from Dylan. Yeah, and you are wasted.
• 29:36
  What a lovely voice you've got. No, please.
• 29:38
  Yeah, I thought you meant drunk for a second.
• 29:40
  I was like, I seemed fine to me. Are you part of that bunch of
• 29:43
  choir? I've been watching them lately.
• 29:45
  God, I tell you, they're so hot, That bunch.
• 29:47
  Anyway, sorry. Anyhow, moving on, Anthony
• 29:50
  Carroll says people may not know Greatest McCoy fan better than
• 29:55
  season 24. Two good stories, 2 naff ones.
• 29:58
  Naff. It sounds like ice, doesn't it?
• 30:01
  Jason Thompson. So rag anyway, sorry.
• 30:04
  Quiet bilge bag It's a. New toe rag.
• 30:07
  I'll rip your kneecaps together, all right?
• 30:09
  Jason Thompson For me, it's the single best 80 season.
• 30:14
  Now that there is some stability behind the scenes, there is a
• 30:17
  confidence on show here and in season 26, not always in
• 30:22
  evidence in other years. Charlie Barnes says messages of
• 30:26
  the season. Time will always tell.
• 30:28
  Fascism and cruelty are doomed to fail.
• 30:31
  Happiness will prevail. Always have a game plan.
• 30:35
  You can always judge a man by the quality of his enemies and
• 30:38
  whether it's darker, more mature storytelling, compelling Dr. and
• 30:42
  companion sense of fun and rejuvenated feel.
• 30:45
  This is a very good season indeed.
• 30:48
  Good messages. Yeah, which takes us on the poor
• 30:51
  smile saying one of my all time favorites, Andrew Cartmel really
• 30:54
  makes his mark here. The season oozes confidence in
• 30:58
  front of the camera and behind the scenes.
• 31:00
  Sylvester Mackay and Sophie Aldridge are magnificent
• 31:03
  throughout. For some reason David Gillespie
• 31:06
  Pratt's given another comment, but we'll say it anyway.
• 31:10
  But once I won't be a hamster iconoclast and leave that to
• 31:13
  others. Remembrance of the Daleks is
• 31:15
  quite magnificent on almost every level.
• 31:17
  Compared to Dragon Fire Boo, it's It's as if the production
• 31:21
  team had a rocket up the bum and they remembered how to make it
• 31:25
  an exciting action adventure. I think I may have put that
• 31:28
  comment in the wrong place. You know, I think that's
• 31:31
  supposed to be about remembrance.
• 31:33
  OK, well, there we go. It's it's it's it's worth
• 31:36
  hearing twice, though. Fortunately, Joe, you'll sort
• 31:39
  this out in the editor for everybody.
• 31:42
  Fuck you. Darren Randall says Season 25
• 31:45
  was my favorite period of classic Doctor Who that I lived
• 31:48
  through as a nine year old. It felt like the show was
• 31:50
  everywhere. Well, McCoy was presenting.
• 31:52
  What's your story as well? I don't know what that is.
• 31:55
  There was a buzz around a school and lots of Dala games at
• 31:59
  playtime. It felt so vibrant and exciting.
• 32:01
  What's Your Story was an improvised fight.
• 32:04
  It was shown across a single week and every day Sylvester
• 32:09
  McCoy was there encouraging children's BBC viewers to phone
• 32:12
  in their ideas and they would then write the script for the
• 32:16
  next episode and build the sets overnight and film it in time
• 32:19
  for the next day. And that's how Doctor Who was
• 32:21
  made. In those days, was that no, no,
• 32:24
  no, it was all done as live? Asked Carolyn Ford.
• 32:27
  That's how he's made now, that's how great it.
• 32:30
  Was pretty exciting TV yeah I. Remember, I always enjoyed that,
• 32:33
  Yes. Yeah, right.
• 32:34
  Jewel Llewellyn, Slayer of Snakes 25, has my favorite
• 32:38
  classic story and a close runner up.
• 32:40
  My favorite classic Doctor and companion.
• 32:43
  Even the week the story SN can't guess what that is, has its
• 32:47
  charms. Awesome nemesis that Paul's
• 32:51
  story. Paul Arthur It's a superbly
• 32:54
  strong season. After a bumpy start, Cartmel has
• 32:58
  got his feet under the table and ensures Doctor Who's final two
• 33:01
  seasons are a high point of the classic run.
• 33:05
  Jamie Robertson says, although I've really seen him get the
• 33:08
  credit for it, it's during this season that Sylvester McCoy
• 33:10
  becomes the most alien doctor of them all.
• 33:14
  They call. CSO Fringe blazes onto the
• 33:18
  screen with justified confidence.
• 33:20
  That's the season, not CSO Fringe, and the show delivers
• 33:24
  what its new title sequence promises.
• 33:26
  Fantastic adventures for a brilliant TARDIS team.
• 33:29
  And finally, Michael Storm season 25, very much the first
• 33:35
  season I fully remember watching.
• 33:37
  So many solid childhood memories, whether it be my
• 33:41
  parents letting little slips of law, letting slip little slips
• 33:46
  of law I don't know. As of the season went on playing
• 33:51
  Dalek slash Cybermen in the school playground and being told
• 33:56
  off for being too noisy. Looking back outside the lens of
• 34:00
  childhood as a 40 something grumpy bastard, the season holds
• 34:05
  up extremely well with many, with some with some many details
• 34:10
  for adults to pick up and lots of colourful imagery and action
• 34:14
  for kids. This is the very definition of
• 34:17
  who as a family show, one of the best.
• 34:20
  Sorry for butchering that, Michael.
• 34:22
  I think it made more sense actually the way you said it.
• 34:26
  And big love to you as well, Michael, right now, big love.
• 34:30
  Well look, thank you listeners for your comments, even the
• 34:34
  wrong ones. Shall we dive in?
• 34:36
  And Joan, I wonder if you would like to go 1st and pick a story?
• 34:39
  Thank you very much, Keith. I'm going to, well, I'm going to
• 34:43
  be quite controversial and champion Remembrance of the
• 34:47
  Daleks. I know you're.
• 34:50
  The most hated story. I know I've changed my mind on
• 34:54
  it after this. Probably my 27th watch of it.
• 34:57
  I really liked it this time, so I'm going to speak in its favour
• 35:02
  now. I fear that my notes for all
• 35:05
  these will be a little like some of the scripts and a bit all
• 35:08
  over the place and a bit too much a points, but we'll see how
• 35:11
  we get on. Have you heard me doing one of
• 35:13
  these? I mean, Jesus Christ, you got.
• 35:15
  Nothing. To worry about.
• 35:17
  OK, let's see how we go. I think from the pre titles of
• 35:20
  this one there is an assuredness to the production that hasn't
• 35:24
  been the case since since Hinchcliffe and Holmes
• 35:28
  consistently went over budget. The when we go straight into
• 35:32
  that scene in the junkyard which is re establishes a single Dalek
• 35:37
  as a threat in a way that I think we've probably haven't
• 35:39
  seen since Genesis the Daleks. And then you've got loads of
• 35:42
  people coming and going, loads of character introductions,
• 35:46
  stunts, effects, loads of ways that could go wrong that
• 35:50
  everything is clear, there's loads of pace and everyone's
• 35:53
  timing is sharp. And while that is seriously
• 35:57
  impressive from a production point of view, I think that all
• 36:00
  comes from the script, which I think is probably one of the
• 36:03
  best ever scripts in Doctor Who in all it's 60 plus years.
• 36:08
  And it is unbelievable, frankly, that it is someone's first
• 36:12
  Doctor Who script. I don't know if it was his first
• 36:14
  TV script, but for a first Doctor Who script, it is
• 36:17
  incredible. He is.
• 36:19
  Eranovic is maximizing the value of every little moment in this
• 36:23
  story right from the start. Even the way he introduces Matt,
• 36:27
  sorry, Mike in the cafe, only to give us a little surprise just a
• 36:31
  moment later by revealing him as a Sergeant.
• 36:35
  Everything feels purposeful. It's either a significant part
• 36:38
  of the plot or telling us something about the character or
• 36:41
  the theme, but there's always something going on and you never
• 36:44
  feel like you're missing context.
• 36:46
  There's a bit in there where they talk about Dalek
• 36:50
  surveillance being so accurate that military response isn't
• 36:53
  possible, which is so neat and effective and it covers
• 36:57
  absolutely everything in the line and it seems so easy, but
• 37:00
  most stories overlook that kind of thing.
• 37:03
  There's loads of twists and turns along the way that feels
• 37:06
  significant, and they land like they're supposed to.
• 37:09
  Even in Part 3, which is traditionally where you get the
• 37:11
  lull, Eronovich is using that space to put the reveal of Mike
• 37:15
  as a wrong and, you know, the actual reveal do all the build
• 37:19
  up to the Dalek battle. And he has the confidence to
• 37:22
  have the Doctor lay out his intended plan in Part 3, which
• 37:27
  is really unusual. But the the escalation is done
• 37:30
  with such precision. Aside from one big thing, which
• 37:36
  I'll get to, the overall structure is well thought
• 37:38
  through. There's these big dramatic peaks
• 37:41
  and there's moments where we take a breath and it all feels
• 37:44
  really controlled and intentional.
• 37:46
  Just little things like the milkman in the morning on the
• 37:49
  second day and the doctor taking the bottle of milk inside the
• 37:52
  Funeral Home. And on top of that you've got a
• 37:55
  couple of fantastic cliffhangers.
• 37:58
  The odd use of toe rag aside, the dialogue is sharp and
• 38:03
  genuinely elegant in the way it lays out some of the big ideas
• 38:07
  and back story. Somehow we are knee deep in law,
• 38:11
  but I don't think there's any sense of it weighing the story
• 38:14
  down. There's no PowerPoint
• 38:16
  presentations here. And then you've got the scene in
• 38:19
  the Cafe at night, which is just a gorgeous bit of writing.
• 38:23
  And of course, to top it all off, you've got the doctor
• 38:26
  insulting Davis's inability to get an erection.
• 38:33
  The guest characters are all well played without without
• 38:36
  having a great deal of development.
• 38:38
  But then there's so much story to get through that sometimes
• 38:40
  you just need likeable familiar archetypes.
• 38:44
  You know, there's a there's a child actor in it who is
• 38:46
  sometimes not so good, but that happens.
• 38:50
  And I did, as a young person, laugh uncontrollably at her
• 38:53
  falling to the ground crying. Although I watch it now and I'm
• 38:58
  obviously getting soft in my old age because I find that bit
• 39:00
  quite moving these days. Like Alison is almost, almost,
• 39:07
  but not quite pointless. She and Rachel are doing
• 39:10
  something that comes up a couple of times again in the series,
• 39:14
  the season rather, which is being a surrogate for the Doctor
• 39:17
  and companion happens again with the Captain and Mags.
• 39:22
  And what is the other one? I'm thinking of Lady Painful and
• 39:25
  Richard to certain extent as well.
• 39:28
  And she does rescue the Doctor, Allison does.
• 39:31
  So that's something. I think it's an excellent
• 39:33
  production in every respect. The full size spaceship,
• 39:37
  exploding Daleks. I love the Daleks scrapping,
• 39:41
  whether you think he's compensating for something or
• 39:44
  just has immense big Dick energy.
• 39:47
  The special weapons Dalek is gorgeous.
• 39:51
  Ace gets loads of stuff to do, also gets the story with Mike as
• 39:55
  well as the action. And McCoy gets to be the master
• 39:59
  manipulator 7th Doctor, but he also gets to be the
• 40:01
  improvisational Second Doctor which I really enjoy.
• 40:05
  There is some stuff that doesn't quite work.
• 40:08
  It is the comedy driving steam scene at the start, the
• 40:10
  switcheroo. I've never felt that quite
• 40:13
  worked. They needed another take.
• 40:14
  I think it's very difficult to believe that Radcliffe doesn't
• 40:18
  know that there's a schoolgirl sat in that chair.
• 40:22
  I mean, just turn your head a little.
• 40:25
  Bit it. Was a great moment.
• 40:28
  I read it when she turns around. Yeah, and I don't think it quite
• 40:33
  makes sense that Davros would disguise himself in front of his
• 40:36
  own Daleks. I mean, he is that kind of
• 40:40
  person, but. It's no.
• 40:42
  Ledster explains all this and more when it finishes.
• 40:45
  OK, and then there's the big one, which is the continuity
• 40:51
  announcement on the TV, which says it's 5:15, which completely
• 40:54
  fucks the continuity of the rest of the story for the sake of a
• 40:58
  gag that is really not worth it. But these are nitpicks because
• 41:03
  there's so much good stuff here. As people have alluded to, the
• 41:07
  the instant chemistry of the Leeds is incredible.
• 41:09
  I think the fact I don't mind season 24 for what it is, but I
• 41:14
  think the jump this makes is almost miraculous in terms of
• 41:19
  the the well oiled machine in every aspect of the production.
• 41:23
  I I don't know how it happened. There's lovely work from KEF,
• 41:27
  obviously. The church bell is really a
• 41:31
  beautiful bit of scoring that he uses, that he seeds early on to
• 41:37
  I think, punctuate the moments with the hand of Omega as the
• 41:41
  floating coffin, but then bring it back and foreshadow the
• 41:45
  funeral at the end. That's really, really nicely
• 41:47
  done. Is the Doctor committing
• 41:50
  genocide problematic? I'd love to go on about this,
• 41:53
  but I fear I have already talked too much, so we'll just have to
• 41:56
  leave that point there. I think this is one of the
• 41:58
  greatest pieces of Doctor Whoever and I'm going to, I am
• 42:03
  going to put it through. Imagine after all that I just
• 42:06
  went, but I'm not going to put it.
• 42:08
  Through You win the night for big Dick energy.
• 42:11
  What's that Dalek called? The special.
• 42:14
  Man is so great. Do we hear what we what, what
• 42:19
  what the viewers at home? The listeners.
• 42:21
  At home, those people, yeah. Like Jason Thompson says Ben
• 42:24
  Aronovich really is sickeningly good at his job, isn't he?
• 42:28
  His first ever TV script that answers that question and he
• 42:31
  turns this in. Nobody, I think gets the Daleks
• 42:34
  like he does, with their racial purity, monstrousness and
• 42:37
  infighting paralleled with racist human characters.
• 42:41
  Jason. Why are they always tongue
• 42:42
  twisters? One of whom is a good guy.
• 42:45
  It's just fucking brilliant and I love it.
• 42:47
  Keep. Luke Sims Jenkins says the Time
• 42:51
  War would have been shorter with McCoy around.
• 42:55
  Herald of Creation says oh boy remembrance is overrated and
• 43:00
  extremely self indulgent whereas.
• 43:04
  The The wise Daniel Knight says. action-packed but thoughtful,
• 43:08
  nostalgic but fresh and exciting.
• 43:09
  Brilliant cast, direction and effects.
• 43:11
  A genuine classic. John Iles Lovely John Iles says
• 43:15
  after growing up watching Who through the 80s, fourteen year
• 43:18
  old me became a fan. When Remembrance Part 1 went
• 43:20
  out, it was the best episode ever.
• 43:23
  The cliffhanger was the best at school the next day aside from
• 43:26
  my friends. Oh this is so sad.
• 43:29
  Only one other person in my year had watched it.
• 43:32
  Oh, John, you should have come to my school.
• 43:35
  And size whoever he might be. I Who, Jack Coyer says.
• 43:40
  It's one that I perhaps admire more than a passionate love for,
• 43:43
  but it's quality can't be denied and it's influence on how Doctor
• 43:47
  Who reckons with its own history going forward is richly
• 43:50
  deserved. Now Glenn Fitzgerald had a very
• 43:53
  different experience to John Isles.
• 43:54
  He says Remembrance of the Daleks made Doctor Who call
• 43:57
  again and even the school bullies were talking about it.
• 44:02
  Paul Dunn says a fresh take on the Daleks.
• 44:04
  Lots of fun nods to the past scary moments.
• 44:07
  Daleks going upstairs, the army guns, Daleks blasting special
• 44:10
  weapons, Dalek. Quite a mass references.
• 44:12
  Great location work. Love it.
• 44:15
  Oh. Boy John Bensalia A confident,
• 44:18
  stylish season opener that successfully builds action and
• 44:21
  political musings about race and bigotry.
• 44:24
  A Stella cast get to grips with some well written characters,
• 44:27
  binders, points for deodorant, Davros and Kevs.
• 44:30
  Very 1988 score, but otherwise a surefire hit.
• 44:37
  Can I just jump in there? Sorry, I'm not sure how KEF was
• 44:40
  supposed to not do a very well. That's really asking too much of
• 44:44
  A composer, I've got to say. Also, it's such a versatile
• 44:47
  school because one minute it can be threatening and scary and the
• 44:50
  next minute, as we know from the Silver Nemesis documentary, it
• 44:53
  can be like a fun party song. It's like a disco where it goes.
• 44:57
  Do you remember that bit? Also people say 80s music like
• 45:01
  it's a bad thing. 80s is one of the best decades for music.
• 45:05
  It's better than fun. I'm talking that general, but
• 45:08
  I'd take care over Dudley Simpson every day.
• 45:12
  Dudley Simpson turned in a very 70s score for that.
• 45:16
  Sort. Of 50s, wasn't it?
• 45:17
  But John is a massive 70s stand. That's his era, so I can kind of
• 45:22
  see where he's coming from. Yeah, it's a big ask.
• 45:26
  Andrew Tumble, who we decided that this was actually.
• 45:30
  Dillon, DCS. Andrews or, or possibly Mr.
• 45:33
  Tumbles does. It just say RTDS are cums and
• 45:35
  that's it. It does actually.
• 45:37
  It talks about Ace's loss of alien Innocent.
• 45:40
  Say it might have been you, Dylan.
• 45:41
  It says Ace's loss of innocence in more ways than 1 / a young
• 45:46
  English fascist is brutally powerful.
• 45:49
  McCoy at peak McCoy. The supporting cast are so
• 45:52
  rounded as characters. There was a big finish spin off.
• 45:56
  That's not always an excuse for a big finished spin off.
• 46:00
  It is a great series though it. Is a good.
• 46:02
  It is a good spin off, but they don't necessarily need no
• 46:06
  bounded supporting cast to make a spin off is my point.
• 46:10
  We're looking at you, lady Christina.
• 46:11
  I love. That one as well.
• 46:14
  Kids are more evil than Davros 2.
• 46:18
  Brilliant even. Watch this, he finished.
• 46:24
  You know what did you say Joan? That Alison's a bit useless,
• 46:27
  doesn't do much in this. She don't do nothing in that Big
• 46:29
  Finish spin off either honestly, but she's still getting work,
• 46:32
  which is nice. Cy Heart says it felt like
• 46:35
  coming in mid season where the Doctor and Ace had loads of
• 46:38
  adventures together, It felt confident and fresh and it's
• 46:41
  bloody brilliant. Best of the season,
• 46:43
  action-packed, wonderful stories.
• 46:45
  Having a Ronovich was a real asset for the show.
• 46:48
  Chris Curtis says more Daleks than you can shake a baseball
• 46:51
  bat at quite mature ideas of racial purity and played out
• 46:55
  across the story with Mike a show that wasn't talking down to
• 46:58
  children I adore it even the Yamaha year 9 music lesson score
• 47:03
  that's very. Harsh, Chris.
• 47:07
  Have you, I mean I teach music. Have you heard a year 9 music
• 47:11
  lesson recently? Because if they produce that,
• 47:14
  that would be a quite a lesson. Love the darkness added to the
• 47:18
  Doctor. I have seen that video of him
• 47:20
  making the theme tune though. It was a Yamaha I think.
• 47:24
  Very risky ones actually, Joe. OK, Paul Cresser says the Daleks
• 47:29
  have a bit of a Weeble quality. What does that mean?
• 47:32
  Oh Weebles, they don't fall down, that's different.
• 47:35
  That's what you mean. Probably just a reference for
• 47:37
  the oldies. Look them up kids.
• 47:39
  Oh shit, the Doctor can now just talk a Dalek to death.
• 47:42
  However, what's not to love? The new found confidence shines
• 47:45
  through and takes you with it. Not my favorite of the season
• 47:48
  though. John Arnold, who seems to have a
• 47:51
  bit of a a bottom themed metaphor going on for this
• 47:55
  round, says still feels like a rocket up the arse for the show.
• 47:59
  Clear eyed and anti nostalgic as it looks back.
• 48:03
  I've drifted a bit after seasons 23 and 24, but after the
• 48:05
  intelligent verve of Part 1 I was all in again and never
• 48:09
  leaving. Kieran Powell very succinctly
• 48:12
  says Ben Eronovich is just that good.
• 48:17
  Paul Arthur says Remembrance is a fan service done right.
• 48:19
  It's referential to the past, but not just, oh look, Cole Hill
• 48:23
  School, etcetera. It actually takes those elements
• 48:25
  of the past and builds on them to make something new.
• 48:27
  It's great and should definitely win.
• 48:30
  Anthony Carroll says he was very excited at the first episode as
• 48:33
  a 17 year old. Good story.
• 48:35
  Only thing I hated was the baseball bat is that fan that
• 48:38
  gives a score 7 out of 10. Gareth Boli says to say this is
• 48:43
  a great story is an injustice. This is epic and the Daleks have
• 48:47
  never been bettered. The settings Brill and a score
• 48:51
  to die for. I agree Gareth, we're all
• 48:54
  thinking of the graveyard attack right now.
• 49:00
  The graveyard attack was the one on that Canadian documentary
• 49:02
  that he played in. Oh yeah, it was.
• 49:05
  It was. Kieran Evans says it looks nice,
• 49:07
  but the plot is a mess and further edits don't help.
• 49:10
  What? Oh no, wait, I've put a Sylvan
• 49:12
  Nemesis. He says it's just Remembrance
• 49:16
  again, but not done as well. Remembrance, Kieran.
• 49:19
  Remember that for Sylvan Nemesis, alright.
• 49:21
  Fine, Joe will just edit that out of that point and pop it in
• 49:25
  in the right place. Paul Smyth says this is
• 49:28
  something truly special. The whole part of the sublime.
• 49:31
  The direction, location, filming and the music are second to
• 49:34
  none. So many memorable scenes.
• 49:36
  Part 1 and Part 2 cliffhangers among the series very best.
• 49:40
  I mean, the music's all right, but I wouldn't say it's second
• 49:43
  to none. Paul Quinn, Hold onto your hats,
• 49:46
  folks. Brilliant cast, great direction.
• 49:48
  Who needs Davros for 90 minutes when we can do it all
• 49:50
  essentially in a cameo and an early warning for young men and
• 49:54
  women who feel attracted to Ace. You will die easily.
• 49:58
  Easily in the top ten of the original run of Doctor Who and
• 50:01
  still top 10 and 20 when you include the revival as well.
• 50:06
  Joe Llewellyn. We did it there, folks.
• 50:07
  All right. I love how you you always
• 50:11
  apologise for the listeners comments.
• 50:13
  Like sorry that you've got a way through all of this stuff.
• 50:15
  Listeners, go and make yourself some popcorn, Jo Lohannon says
• 50:19
  The best guest cast, pacing, directions, story, everything
• 50:22
  works. Exhibit A that there was still
• 50:25
  life in the show and it shouldn't have been cancelled.
• 50:28
  Some of the Doctor R and Ace's finest moments.
• 50:30
  My first classic Target novel. I even like the music.
• 50:35
  Even Michael. Stall.
• 50:36
  No need for the even. My nemesis Sony classic without
• 50:39
  a doubt. I burnt it's it.
• 50:41
  Burned yourself into my 5 year old self on broadcast and
• 50:44
  lingered there ever since. I vividly remember watching this
• 50:47
  on broadcast. Just about everything is on top
• 50:49
  form. Excellent action sequences, some
• 50:51
  great effects, strong performances all round.
• 50:54
  I mean, everyone's saying the same thing here.
• 50:56
  This is a rare example of a memory not cheating.
• 50:58
  And like a fine wine, the story improves with.
• 51:02
  HI guess while Michael Storm is commenting on season 25, he
• 51:05
  should be considered your silver nemesis.
• 51:09
  There it is. Favorite it is Nightmare and
• 51:12
  Silver as well, remember. Darrell it roundels says
• 51:15
  Remembrance has to be one of my most watched stories.
• 51:19
  Sadly, I found it was the least enjoyable on the Blu-ray.
• 51:22
  The restoration didn't do it any favors, but it's still a great
• 51:25
  story with plenty of fun scenes. Shame it didn't have a stronger
• 51:29
  director. Pernultimate comment Jamie Bell
• 51:32
  says remembrance took so many stale elements, Daleks, Davros
• 51:35
  unit sort of Time Lord mythology and made them interesting again.
• 51:40
  The 25th anniversary story in spirit, if not name.
• 51:44
  Matt Lee newbie finally says it feels like anything can happen
• 51:48
  and the story subverts expectations by clearly
• 51:50
  underlining that stares don't save you from Daleks and
• 51:53
  misdirecting the appearance of Davos with Jasmine breaks his
• 51:56
  creepy little girl being a red herring and Big D only turning
• 52:00
  up. I think that's that Big D is, is
• 52:03
  Big Davos, not the Big D special weapons Dalek, Big D only
• 52:07
  turning up for the end of the story.
• 52:10
  Well, Fraser, would you like to tell John why he's so wrong
• 52:14
  about Remembrance? No, he's 100.
• 52:19
  Percent right. Hey, we're on then, Dylan I.
• 52:23
  Mean this is this is the big one like I said before this is the
• 52:26
  one that got me. You know started and talked to
• 52:29
  who you know, without remembrance of the Daleks.
• 52:32
  I'm not sitting here talking to you guys.
• 52:34
  I've not made. There's lots to ask for then
• 52:37
  Jesus Christ. You know, all the friends that
• 52:40
  I've made in the last couple of years doing podcasting and
• 52:43
  everything, you know, I owe this story so, so much.
• 52:46
  So I think it was, was it Paul Quinn who said it was top ten
• 52:50
  Doctor Who? It's actually 7 #7 in my list.
• 52:54
  I don't mention it much, but I've made a list of the 60
• 52:56
  greatest Doctor Who stories of all time, and this one came at
• 52:59
  #7 it's skies for the day. I'm in stockwoodpress.com should
• 53:02
  you want to go read it. So I did have a bit of a
• 53:06
  struggle with this. One of of just, you know,
• 53:08
  narrowing things down to three, three reasons why I was going to
• 53:11
  put this in. I did because I know we all want
• 53:13
  to go to bed at some point tonight.
• 53:15
  And if you give me free reign on these things, especially this
• 53:18
  season, we will not. So number one, this is the
• 53:21
  template for the modern era right out.
• 53:25
  You know, Dylan's soccer count there said, you know, are you
• 53:28
  watching RTD? Well, yes, he really is.
• 53:31
  He has been watching this because you can just see the
• 53:34
  bones of what he comes up with in Series 1.
• 53:38
  You know, it starts yet and you see through the rest of the
• 53:40
  series. You've got your big effect heavy
• 53:42
  earthbound opener, which gets followed up by a story set in
• 53:46
  the future, which then gets followed up by a story that's
• 53:49
  set in the past. And yeah, it's a bit of a squish
• 53:51
  to get it there, but you can see the bones out there.
• 53:54
  You can see in the story itself. We've got the Doctor and the
• 53:58
  companion on a much more equal footing than this.
• 54:03
  You know, James, you said that the chemistry between Sophie
• 54:06
  Aldrin, Sylvester McAuley is really hard to define.
• 54:08
  And it is because it's, you know, it's not that sort of, you
• 54:12
  know, abusive relationship sort sort of thing you get with six
• 54:15
  doctor and Perry. It's, you know, it's it's it's
• 54:18
  quite, you know, teacher student knee, but not in that same sort
• 54:24
  of way. You know, there's a lot closer
• 54:26
  than that's what it is really, really difficult, but you know,
• 54:30
  it's in there. You've got Ace is pretty much
• 54:32
  the prototype rules. You know, the the companion who
• 54:36
  will go and drive the plot forward.
• 54:38
  You know, who wouldn't need asking?
• 54:40
  He will, you know, go out and smash shit up and you know, has
• 54:43
  got the heart about there as well.
• 54:45
  You know, that has the sort of the moral compass when you know
• 54:48
  the alien Doctor doesn't. It's got all those character
• 54:52
  beats that we're just not used to by this point in Doctor 2.
• 54:55
  You know that Cafe scene with Jeffrey from Fresh Prince, you
• 55:00
  know, you just don't get stuff like that or you do.
• 55:03
  But it's so few and far between that, you know, when you get it
• 55:06
  in this one, it really does feel like it's it's the future of
• 55:10
  television kind of arriving in 1988.
• 55:15
  You know, things that, you know, Ace and Mike, that sort of
• 55:18
  relationship that breaks down and the leads to this little
• 55:22
  code at the end of, you know, Ace.
• 55:24
  Did we do right here, Doctor Will time will tell.
• 55:27
  It always does, you know, stuff like that, the the mundane made
• 55:31
  scary with the little girl, you know, creeping around that turns
• 55:35
  out to actually be fake Davros. It's just got bags of energy.
• 55:39
  It's got bags of action, but bags of heart.
• 55:41
  This story and it really leans into the past as well, whilst at
• 55:46
  the same time sort of reaching for the future.
• 55:49
  It is so thick with the show's past because, you know, it's
• 55:53
  25th anniversary and it so you've got all these references
• 55:55
  to Tot as laying in the book and the school and everything.
• 55:58
  And it's full of Daleks position.
• 56:01
  As, you know, the Doctor has to explain to us what Daleks are.
• 56:04
  And it really goes back to what makes them scary and powerful.
• 56:08
  You know, this idea of the racial purity.
• 56:10
  They are not just, you know, squeaky little boxes on wheels
• 56:13
  that wobble around. You know, there's there's a
• 56:15
  reason why we should actually, you know, dislike and hate and
• 56:20
  fear the Daleks. You know, it brings it up to
• 56:23
  date with a story that's quite relevant, quite relevant now
• 56:28
  when you see everything that's happening with reform that but
• 56:30
  you think, you know, 1988, that was it was 25 years, you know,
• 56:34
  since it was set. And it's not that far away from
• 56:36
  the Second World War. So it is quite, you know, the
• 56:39
  idea of fascism is, is is probably still a lot, you know,
• 56:45
  clearing people's minds and they all, you know, ripping up the
• 56:47
  sign, you know, no blacks allowed.
• 56:50
  You know, you can, you can imagine that being something
• 56:54
  that would come back quite easily in today's modern, modern
• 56:57
  climate. And the really clever thing it
• 56:59
  does is it kind of takes the Daleks and it rejuvenates them
• 57:04
  rather than reinventing them. I see this all the time,
• 57:06
  Moffett. I hate what Moffett does to
• 57:08
  Daleks. He's always adding something new
• 57:09
  and new and new and completely necessary.
• 57:12
  And it really, you know, spoils them, but you know, Ivanovich,
• 57:15
  you know, it takes them and gives them big Dick energy.
• 57:18
  So we'll get that big sexy special weapons Dalek and we'll
• 57:21
  get the bread bin Davos, which is which is fantastic reveal.
• 57:24
  He can fuck up free Daleks at the same time, can't he?
• 57:28
  That special weapons Dalek, I can reduce them to asses.
• 57:31
  It's wonderful. And he blow the bloody doors
• 57:34
  off, he can get the police down and the bomb squad and
• 57:36
  everything. So and you know, it's, it's, it
• 57:39
  is the unofficial 25th anniversary story.
• 57:42
  But like I say, it really is looking forward and setting this
• 57:46
  template for everything that's to come.
• 57:47
  So that's point number one point #2 And because it needs to be
• 57:50
  mentioned, it has to be said at some point in this recording. 3
• 57:54
  words, Unlimited race. Hey, Sylvester McCoy, we're
• 58:00
  going to talk a lot about him tonight, and we're going to talk
• 58:02
  a lot about his shortcomings. At least one of us is going to
• 58:04
  talk a lot about his shortcomings as an actor.
• 58:07
  And it's true. It's true enough.
• 58:09
  I can't deny. You know, there's points when
• 58:11
  Sylvester McCoy struggles, and it's usually when he's trying to
• 58:13
  be a bit angry. And if you give him a scene
• 58:17
  where he can turn it down and he can brood and he can be menacing
• 58:20
  and sinister, he will absolutely nail that.
• 58:23
  But when you ask him to, you know, be angry and be big, he he
• 58:27
  really does. He does fault.
• 58:28
  But in this one, he absolutely nails it.
• 58:30
  You know, when he's, you know, on the microphone like reeling
• 58:33
  at Davos. And you know, it helps that
• 58:35
  years just take the piss out of him.
• 58:36
  He's trying to get a rise. But you know, when he goes with
• 58:38
  the rants on and he goes into full Davos mode himself about,
• 58:42
  you know. The best 1 is when he goes what
• 58:45
  is it? Do you doubt the non terrestrial
• 58:47
  nature of the Daleks? I mean examine this one, or
• 58:48
  better get asked you a scientific advisor.
• 58:51
  I thought McCoy was on the call. By.
• 58:54
  Acting, He's as good as Sylvester McCoy.
• 58:56
  We're going to get a lot of that.
• 58:58
  He channels something genuine when he just turns turns away
• 59:01
  from Gilmore and says. Humans.
• 59:03
  Oh, that's fabulous. But, you know, we've, we've had
• 59:07
  a series of them, you know, as you know, very much the clownish
• 59:10
  Dr. knows a lot of platforms and hints of the darkness.
• 59:13
  But from this point on, we really start to see that darker
• 59:16
  side to come into him that he really will explore a lot more
• 59:20
  the following year and really lean into a lot following.
• 59:22
  But here we are getting that sort of balance of the dark
• 59:25
  Doctor, but the light one as well.
• 59:26
  You know, that quite introspective moment.
• 59:28
  Again, going back to the Cafe Cafe with Jeffrey, you know, of
• 59:31
  just, you know, again, when do we ever see Doctor Whoever be so
• 59:34
  introspective is is that so the. Best bit of advice you've ever
• 59:39
  had in Doctor Who? Life's like that.
• 59:41
  Best thing is just to get on with it.
• 59:44
  Exactly. And have some sugar in your tea.
• 59:46
  So that's point #2 Sylvester McCoy and the rice pudding and
• 59:51
  Part 3. And it is, it's really personal.
• 59:53
  It's so, so, so, so personal to me as the Part 1 cliffhanger.
• 59:57
  Because, you know, this is the point which got me, like I say,
• 1:00:00
  I said three times already, you know, it got me a Doctor Who I'm
• 1:00:03
  not. I won't tell the big full story
• 1:00:04
  because I can see what I got to go to bed.
• 1:00:06
  But you can hear that on the commentary.
• 1:00:08
  I did withdrew. On remembrance of the daughter.
• 1:00:10
  3 1/2 hours long. All right.
• 1:00:12
  Oh. There's worse ones than that.
• 1:00:14
  And you know, say hearts like the impossible things.
• 1:00:18
  However he might be, you know, a tell the tale on there.
• 1:00:20
  It involves me, grandma and having to record for the next
• 1:00:23
  day. But it's just for one reason,
• 1:00:26
  You know, it is so personal and so rooted in a really lovely
• 1:00:30
  memory I have of someone that's no longer with us.
• 1:00:32
  That was very, very dear to me. And but at the same time, you
• 1:00:35
  know, being objective. It's just a fantastic
• 1:00:37
  cliffhanger as well. It's that probe shattering
• 1:00:41
  genius of saying, well, let's just get the dollar to go up the
• 1:00:43
  stairs and you can pick it apart.
• 1:00:44
  You can pick apart. I mean, Toby Haydock has
• 1:00:46
  actually counted how many times the dollar shouts exterminate
• 1:00:49
  without actually exterminating the doctor that's right in front
• 1:00:52
  of him. You can pick it apart all you
• 1:00:54
  want, do you? Ever a child in a playground?
• 1:00:56
  That's, I mean, that's all you want.
• 1:00:58
  That is what you want from a cliffhanger.
• 1:01:00
  Yeah, it's it's what you want in a cliffhanger is you want
• 1:01:03
  something that will bring you back the next day or the next
• 1:01:07
  week, something that will make you watch that and think, I want
• 1:01:11
  to watch this program again. And that cliffhanger didn't just
• 1:01:15
  do that for the next week, it did it for the next 36 years.
• 1:01:20
  It brought me back and back and back.
• 1:01:22
  So that's Part 3. It's going through 100%.
• 1:01:25
  The Daleks usually leave an operator on station in case of
• 1:01:28
  any malfunctions and. That would be another Dalek,
• 1:01:32
  yes. Stay where you are.
• 1:01:39
  Go up the stairs. Oh, sorry, please, please open
• 1:01:52
  the door. You are the enemy of the garlic.
• 1:01:58
  You will be exterminated. Exterminate, exterminate,
• 1:02:04
  exterminate. Joe, do you would you like to
• 1:02:12
  dissent for? A big Finnish writer once,
• 1:02:15
  probably inappropriately, said to me that we have to dumb down
• 1:02:19
  the rest of Mccoy's dialogue because he can't deliver
• 1:02:22
  complicated language. And he's right, he can't.
• 1:02:26
  He does struggle a lot with delivering complicated language,
• 1:02:30
  except in this story where he's just so utterly on form, so
• 1:02:35
  completely the Doctor and just magical in this story that
• 1:02:40
  there's not a line delivery he gets wrong.
• 1:02:43
  I don't think throughout that. And today he's given really
• 1:02:45
  difficult, complicated things to say.
• 1:02:48
  I think he's wonderful in this. I think this is possibly his
• 1:02:50
  best performance in the entire run.
• 1:02:53
  Like Sophie, I think next year might be where he struggles a
• 1:02:55
  bit. But I think McCoy is bang on.
• 1:02:58
  And let's start there because I don't always say nice things
• 1:03:00
  about him. Can we have Ben Aronovich as the
• 1:03:04
  showrunner of Doctor Who, please?
• 1:03:06
  Because he knows that children are fucking creepy, unlike
• 1:03:11
  Steven Moffett, who thinks they're just adorable.
• 1:03:14
  And now I know you said about Jasmine Brakes Joan, but God, I
• 1:03:17
  think she's wonderful. The time controller has been
• 1:03:20
  disabled. I mean, she's not the strongest
• 1:03:22
  actress in the world. They're having that creepy kid
• 1:03:25
  in the middle of this story. I don't know.
• 1:03:27
  There is just something, we talked about it, James, when we
• 1:03:29
  did the book, didn't we? There's something so scary about
• 1:03:32
  the Daleks taking a child and sucking out the imagination of a
• 1:03:36
  child and pouring it into this sort of weapon of, hey, it's
• 1:03:40
  brilliant. It's a really grim idea that
• 1:03:43
  isn't it. Yeah, and I I mean, you're
• 1:03:45
  right. He could have just turned that
• 1:03:46
  chair around and got who's behind there.
• 1:03:48
  Now come on, who is it? And just her on the periphery of
• 1:03:52
  all the scenes, you know, just sort of giving those evil eyes.
• 1:03:56
  But also looking at it from the perspective of children who go
• 1:03:59
  to school, it's like it's taking something that they that people
• 1:04:02
  see everyday, unless you go to an all boys school, I guess.
• 1:04:06
  But I was surrounded by creepy girls at school.
• 1:04:09
  And so it really kind of, it was a powerful image.
• 1:04:13
  There was an epidemic of boys bullying creepy girls at school
• 1:04:17
  after this because they all thought they were slaves of the
• 1:04:20
  Daleks. Well, Jasmine breaks.
• 1:04:22
  She got the last laugh because she's producing TV now, all
• 1:04:25
  right? Everyone who's ever mean about
• 1:04:27
  her, Yeah, I think she's doing Strictly Come Dancing and stuff
• 1:04:29
  like that and. When I said she wasn't great, I
• 1:04:31
  meant she was fantastic. Honest to God, I'd really like
• 1:04:34
  some work. Jasmine please.
• 1:04:35
  Give her a, give her a Google. Yeah.
• 1:04:37
  And all right, she's very pretty as well.
• 1:04:38
  I mean, she's got the last laugh.
• 1:04:40
  As the saying goes, there's nothing more scary than a creepy
• 1:04:42
  girl sitting on your toilet and Tooting back when I.
• 1:04:47
  Was oh, that would be terrified. When I was a nipper, I used to
• 1:04:50
  love going around doing the electric bolts at your fingers.
• 1:04:53
  You know, I'd smashed A smashed my banister on the stairway
• 1:04:58
  every day, you know, and attack my mum and my sister.
• 1:05:01
  I just loved her as a girl. I still love her now.
• 1:05:02
  I think it's great, Rachel. Not enough discussion here about
• 1:05:08
  Rachel, just a brilliant professorial character of the
• 1:05:11
  thought we see all the time in Doctor Who.
• 1:05:13
  We're just a wonderful mature woman.
• 1:05:16
  Bags of intelligent questions, smart observations throughout,
• 1:05:19
  dry wit literally probably my #2 should have been a companion of
• 1:05:26
  the entire run, classic and new and Pamela Sailor man.
• 1:05:30
  Both her roles in Doctor Who are fabulous, but she's she's
• 1:05:33
  gorgeous in this. And yeah, I just want to say the
• 1:05:35
  special weapons dark as well, because there's just nothing
• 1:05:37
  cooler in the entire run of classic Who than that bloody
• 1:05:41
  great Dick going around blasting Daleks to pieces and so
• 1:05:46
  dramatically, you know, all the emergency services came running.
• 1:05:50
  You've seen that footage on the DVD.
• 1:05:52
  Oh, it's wonderful. The alarms going off.
• 1:05:54
  Doctor Who's back, baby, and how.
• 1:05:57
  Yeah, it's amazing. Like we're all going to say it's
• 1:05:59
  amazing. It's the most impressive
• 1:06:01
  production in years. This isn't the one I was talking
• 1:06:05
  about at the start, though. This isn't the one that's 10
• 1:06:07
  years ahead of the game. But it's a very, very good
• 1:06:11
  example of TV made in the 80's, the late 80s.
• 1:06:15
  I think it's there with what was being produced with America this
• 1:06:19
  time, sort of genre TV. The others aren't this year.
• 1:06:24
  Others are archaic, but this one is there.
• 1:06:27
  Yeah, put it through. Dylan Joe thinks that we're all
• 1:06:30
  going to say it's amazing. Is he correct?
• 1:06:33
  Well, we talked a lot about nostalgia at the beginning of
• 1:06:35
  this, and I think for at least three of these stories,
• 1:06:38
  nostalgia are going to feature heavily for me.
• 1:06:40
  So I want to take you back to September of 1993.
• 1:06:44
  What's a great time to be alive and going to WH Smith's with my
• 1:06:50
  book tokens and my pocket money and shelling and shelling out?
• 1:06:54
  Tin metallic. Tin.
• 1:06:56
  For a Dalek tin, I can, I can. And rubbing my hands over those
• 1:07:01
  bumps and going what? Holding to hold in my hands.
• 1:07:06
  Something of such beauty and such glory.
• 1:07:09
  Taking it home after school, cracking it open.
• 1:07:12
  The videos, they're in cardboard, but there's also a
• 1:07:15
  plastic vacuum form thing. I can smell it now.
• 1:07:19
  And a tiny little booklet with the list of the Doctor Who
• 1:07:21
  videos that are available. That glorious, glorious cover.
• 1:07:25
  We take the video out, we put it on and it's me and it's my
• 1:07:29
  three-year old brother Jackson, at the time three years old.
• 1:07:32
  But not only that, we've got two other siblings in between and we
• 1:07:37
  are all sat there and we watch Remembrance of the Daleks for
• 1:07:41
  the first time. And it was the greatest thing
• 1:07:44
  we'd ever, ever seen. So for that alone, oh, Fraser's
• 1:07:48
  got his tin. He's just brandished his tin
• 1:07:51
  stroke. The bumps for me stroke the
• 1:07:53
  bumps. It's shiny and beautiful.
• 1:07:55
  Oh my God, will you fondle that plunger a little bit, please?
• 1:07:59
  Here. We go, oh.
• 1:08:02
  My God, stop exposing yourself everybody, please.
• 1:08:06
  Dalek Tin and Cradle it for the rest of this podcast.
• 1:08:10
  Now what? Dalek is on the back of yours.
• 1:08:14
  I've got a Davros. Oh.
• 1:08:16
  You've got a Davos mine. Mine had a Revelation Dalek on
• 1:08:20
  it. Oh, sexy.
• 1:08:21
  Yeah, so this may not be something that Ben Oronovich
• 1:08:26
  ever thought, but the first reason I'm saying this is good
• 1:08:28
  is because it came in a tin, much like biscuits.
• 1:08:31
  Biscuits, good. Remembrance of the Daleks.
• 1:08:33
  Good, you know. Oh, look at that cardboard case.
• 1:08:36
  Wow, that's pristine. Yeah, no.
• 1:08:39
  Beautiful. And the chase.
• 1:08:41
  What a time to be alive. So #1 Chase.
• 1:08:43
  I've forgotten that. Oh boy.
• 1:08:46
  Oh, and the little book. 10 episodes of God.
• 1:08:51
  Fuck this podcast, just read us that book.
• 1:08:52
  Yeah, let's watch it. Come on.
• 1:08:53
  Never mind you lot. Let's go.
• 1:08:56
  I won't go on too much because everybody said everything, but
• 1:09:00
  this story is just oozing with confidence like it's doing
• 1:09:03
  things that you never thought were possible that in the last
• 1:09:06
  season, you know, huge building giant spaceships and not just
• 1:09:10
  giant spaceships, giant models over earth, a pre title
• 1:09:13
  sequence, big explosions. Like I'm just understanding
• 1:09:18
  where to set a Doctor Who story and how you can do it.
• 1:09:21
  Well, it's brilliantly directed as a piece of aces television as
• 1:09:25
  as Joe says, it's just super confident.
• 1:09:28
  So that is my second thing. And my third thing is I love it
• 1:09:32
  when writers of Doctor Who screw with the cannon and blowing up
• 1:09:37
  Scaro, putting like reasons behind why the Doctor was there
• 1:09:41
  in 1963 in the 1st place. None of it, none of it ruins
• 1:09:46
  anything that was there before. It just adds more to the mythos,
• 1:09:50
  so much like the Timeless Child and things that's.
• 1:09:52
  What you were talking? About the Time War, things like
• 1:09:55
  that. I just love how we are 25 years
• 1:09:59
  into this program at this point, and Ben Aronovich and Andrew
• 1:10:02
  Cartman will come along and they go, there's more to this.
• 1:10:05
  And we can we, we can build on everything that's here and at
• 1:10:08
  the end of it, do something massive like blow up Scaro.
• 1:10:11
  So Tim's confidence Canon tampering.
• 1:10:15
  Who is the other? Who is the other?
• 1:10:18
  Yeah. I can't remember, it's been a
• 1:10:20
  long time. Does a Revlon Barrow?
• 1:10:22
  No, he's the one from the book, isn't he from the novelization?
• 1:10:25
  Oh, does he show up in that? Never.
• 1:10:28
  Ever. It's not because it's not the
• 1:10:29
  Doctor. How is it not?
• 1:10:31
  It is. I'll explain later.
• 1:10:34
  Thank you. Well, it falls to me to bring
• 1:10:36
  some objectivity to this discussion because I mean, I'm
• 1:10:39
  incapable of being objective about remembrance.
• 1:10:42
  It was my way in. It was the first Doctor Who I
• 1:10:44
  saw. I, I, I couldn't be objective
• 1:10:48
  about it if, if, if I tried. So I went, I went looking for
• 1:10:52
  some other opinions just to kind of reframe the argument.
• 1:10:55
  Here's one The plot demands the mutants in such numbers that it
• 1:10:59
  appears the Dalek Supreme has started sending in the clumsy,
• 1:11:03
  the dummy casings that fill up the crowd scenes in other
• 1:11:06
  stories. These lightweight cut price
• 1:11:08
  versions read the Daleks of detail and not a little glamour
• 1:11:12
  and dignity. Were the BBC out of gloss paint
• 1:11:14
  at the time? That's Vanessa Bishop.
• 1:11:16
  Glamour. Have you seen those Imperial
• 1:11:20
  Daleks? I would her.
• 1:11:23
  Opinions are available. Here's my point.
• 1:11:25
  Here's another one. This story is one of the better
• 1:11:28
  ones from the unfortunate John Nathan Turner era, and that is
• 1:11:31
  not saying much for it. This is not drama, it is light
• 1:11:35
  entertainment. That's someone called Graham
• 1:11:37
  Cripps on Amazon.co.uk, a dreadful, crudely made noise
• 1:11:43
  fest that stands as Doctor Who's most overrated story.
• 1:11:47
  That's doctorwhonews.net. Too many guns.
• 1:11:50
  Absolutely too many guns. That is Janet Fielding *
• 1:11:55
  Resurrection. Of the dialects and the power of
• 1:11:56
  the. Doctor Famous stories with no
• 1:11:58
  guns. Well, she's been consistently,
• 1:12:00
  that's why she left Doctor Who. She's really upset by them.
• 1:12:03
  So, carrying on a theme. This one, Roy Skelton's Dalek
• 1:12:07
  voices, couldn't have sounded more like Zippy from Rainbow
• 1:12:10
  with a Cold. No, no, they do that one who
• 1:12:12
  goes shuttle force has entered heavy.
• 1:12:15
  It does sound like Zippy. Bungle, bungle that.
• 1:12:18
  Came from a website yeah, written by some someone called
• 1:12:21
  Doc Oho or something. What did he say?
• 1:12:25
  Exactly what I just read out. Oh, well, yeah, he does.
• 1:12:28
  He's talking to tell you the truth.
• 1:12:31
  So look, on the basis that other opinions available, I guess I've
• 1:12:35
  I have to be the one to bin course I'm not going to bin Oh.
• 1:12:40
  My God. I love so many things about
• 1:12:42
  this. I mean, we've mentioned them all
• 1:12:44
  really. The script is absolutely
• 1:12:46
  incredible and, and, and thematically so rich and, and so
• 1:12:52
  kind of, it wears it's cleverness so lightly, but it is
• 1:12:57
  a clever, clever script and, and it draws from the richness of
• 1:13:00
  this period setting as well. The dialogue, we shouldn't take
• 1:13:04
  it for granted, but we kind of do because Eronovich makes this
• 1:13:06
  dialogue sound easy. It's it's, I think it's years
• 1:13:10
  ahead of its time in terms of the way that that it that it
• 1:13:12
  balances drama and and, and these quotable, genuinely funny
• 1:13:18
  lines. And the cast.
• 1:13:20
  I mean, we, we haven't talked enough about Pamela Salem, but
• 1:13:24
  we haven't talked at all about Simon Williams.
• 1:13:26
  We haven't heard, I mean, gorgeous Daisy McLennan, George
• 1:13:30
  Sewell with I mean, this is a such a starry cast.
• 1:13:33
  The, the fact that they can have people like Joseph Marcel and
• 1:13:36
  Michael Sheared and Harry Fowler and Peter bloody Packer holiday
• 1:13:41
  in tiny, tiny roles shows just what an embarrassment of riches
• 1:13:45
  there are in the in the cast. The the special effects.
• 1:13:47
  I mean, if the, if the special edition on the Blu-ray showed us
• 1:13:50
  anything, it wasn't just that we didn't need a special edition.
• 1:13:53
  It was actually that modern effects.
• 1:13:55
  They may have a Christmas and a clarity, but they do not have
• 1:13:57
  the weight of model effects made in the mid 80s.
• 1:14:04
  I'm glad so many people are talking about the music
• 1:14:07
  affectionately, because I think for a long time Kev McCulloch
• 1:14:11
  was sort of beaten around the head with the his sound world,
• 1:14:14
  which of course is very 1988. But beyond that kind of
• 1:14:18
  superficial and then very contemporary sound, he's a
• 1:14:21
  really, really clever composer. And I think remember, it's maybe
• 1:14:24
  his best score. It certainly shows what a a
• 1:14:28
  cinematic approach he has the just the way that he scores the
• 1:14:31
  the the episode 1 cliffhanger and that that that quite rapid
• 1:14:35
  build from something that's just kind of a pulse to begin with.
• 1:14:38
  He uses really kind of unusual harmonic language in places,
• 1:14:45
  kind of by tonality in a in a few places and that mix again of
• 1:14:48
  different styles, which works I think really, really well,
• 1:14:51
  particularly kind of in this story.
• 1:14:53
  It's a score very well suited. So you are just a very slight
• 1:14:58
  other opinion there though not from me, from my over off who
• 1:15:02
  when I was watching this earlier in the week came down the stairs
• 1:15:04
  and just went will you turn off that horrible noise please?
• 1:15:08
  When the music to remembers was playing.
• 1:15:11
  So there are distractors. Were you playing just the music
• 1:15:13
  on its own? No, I don't know.
• 1:15:14
  I had the story on. Yeah, the story.
• 1:15:16
  I don't play KEF on his own. Jesus Christ.
• 1:15:19
  It's it's not a million miles away from that drum and bass
• 1:15:23
  music that Murray Gold does in the first season of Brand New
• 1:15:27
  Who? You know, before we went full
• 1:15:28
  orchestra. It's but it's also less poppy
• 1:15:31
  than I think people imagine. It's got some really good
• 1:15:34
  tension building stuff and like a good score.
• 1:15:37
  It I mean it, it knows when not to be too obvious and that is a
• 1:15:42
  thing that Kev can do. People assume it's always very
• 1:15:44
  kind of front of the mix, but it's not at all.
• 1:15:46
  It it, it very subtly sits in the background and and the way
• 1:15:50
  he mixes noise and sound effects with his samples as well.
• 1:15:55
  Is, is, is really unusual. I mean, I think it was, I think
• 1:15:58
  it's, I think he was a game changer for the way that every
• 1:16:01
  composer for Doctor Who started looking at what they could do
• 1:16:03
  with, with music and Doctor Who. I mean that I all I would go
• 1:16:08
  with all three cliffhangers. I think that and also have
• 1:16:11
  having the the huts power to end the cliffhanger with Sylvester
• 1:16:14
  McCoy cracking a joke and blinking.
• 1:16:17
  I I think that's wonderful. The coffee shop scene, the the
• 1:16:22
  special weapons Dalek, of course, the Dalek going up the
• 1:16:25
  stairs. I mean, and again, it it's a
• 1:16:27
  thing that modern who has never replicated the, the weight of
• 1:16:30
  that wobbly Dalek going up the stairs.
• 1:16:32
  I want that much more than I want a CGI Dalek just kind of
• 1:16:34
  gliding up the stairs. I think the fact that it appears
• 1:16:36
  to be kind of screaming its way, defying gravity through sheer
• 1:16:41
  kind of anger really, really is powerful.
• 1:16:46
  And above all, I think I just think it gives us iconography.
• 1:16:49
  Like, it feels like the sort of thing Doctor Who should have
• 1:16:54
  been serving up for 25 years. So much of it feels like, oh,
• 1:16:58
  this is absolutely typical Doctor Who, but it's not.
• 1:17:00
  Why did it take 25 years for Doctor Who to return to a school
• 1:17:04
  when the most kind of Doctor Who thing you can do is land a
• 1:17:07
  shuffle craft in a playground and have a creepy schoolgirl?
• 1:17:11
  So. And it gives us these images
• 1:17:12
  like the doctor with the hand of Omega gliding behind him.
• 1:17:18
  The, the imagery of dialects in London.
• 1:17:22
  I know, I, I, I think that it has a visual, I think it has a
• 1:17:25
  visual language that is embedded in the ideas in the script that
• 1:17:27
  just makes it, it gives it such flavour.
• 1:17:31
  I, I can't choose three reasons. It's obviously it's going
• 1:17:34
  through. I think it's an astonishing
• 1:17:36
  piece of Doctor Who, and definitely at least in my top 7.
• 1:17:41
  Just one tiny It's the tiniest of of criticisms, and that is I
• 1:17:47
  think the book is even better than the TV version.
• 1:17:51
  But I'm a book. Nerd.
• 1:17:52
  So I would say that already though in.
• 1:17:54
  The but they're both perfect in within their own mediums.
• 1:17:58
  Go on then, Dylan. Well, let me ask you, what's
• 1:18:02
  thick, black, green all over and could take your eye out?
• 1:18:08
  Why, it's the VHS of Silver Nemesis, of course.
• 1:18:11
  That shiny, shiny thing that we were.
• 1:18:14
  Shiny green. I'm just thinking of Eroso.
• 1:18:17
  Well, exactly, exactly. Again, another nostalgic memory
• 1:18:22
  of getting this glorious shiny shiny thing.
• 1:18:26
  It was so shiny that literally, if the sun caught it at the
• 1:18:30
  right angle, it could blind you. It was a beautiful thing.
• 1:18:33
  Featuring an extended version of this Doctor Who story I've never
• 1:18:37
  seen. So truthfully, I didn't know.
• 1:18:39
  I don't think I really even know what the shorter version is like
• 1:18:42
  now. And I watched it the other day.
• 1:18:44
  And so it comes in this fully formed big action length
• 1:18:50
  adventure. Feature length adventure with a
• 1:18:52
  making of documentary. And how glorious was that making
• 1:18:55
  of documentary? To see actual behind the scenes
• 1:18:59
  of the making of classic Doctor Who felt like a dream.
• 1:19:03
  Do the accent The making of Doctor Who.
• 1:19:06
  Silver Nemesis. So it was again, nostalgic
• 1:19:12
  memories, but that's not really my first point.
• 1:19:14
  I'm just sort of setting the scene and when I first got it.
• 1:19:17
  I fucking love this story. It's remembrance is the best of
• 1:19:23
  the season, but this is my favorite of the season.
• 1:19:26
  I I have so much fun every time I watch this and I think I think
• 1:19:34
  it, you know, it just does silly things that are somehow so new
• 1:19:38
  who but also kind of like badly handled at the same time.
• 1:19:43
  So the doctor and a sitting down to enjoy some jazz.
• 1:19:48
  Like just like who's ever thought about the doctor or his
• 1:19:51
  companions ever enjoying music since 1964 in the chase.
• 1:19:55
  Like it's just little touches to it makes you feel like these
• 1:19:58
  people have a life. I know everybody mocks the
• 1:20:01
  social workers moments, but those do feel like an attempt to
• 1:20:05
  put real people into this story and.
• 1:20:08
  You've been to Crawley, have you?
• 1:20:13
  And of course we surely do, honey.
• 1:20:16
  We surely do. What a brilliant cameo.
• 1:20:19
  What a stupid moment to just have in the middle of a Doctor
• 1:20:21
  Who story. It's silly, but it somehow feels
• 1:20:25
  very modern. The way it shot feels modern
• 1:20:28
  like this feels like they're they're desperately pushing the
• 1:20:31
  show in a new direction. And again, we're getting into
• 1:20:34
  the mythos, building this new mythos, the the later named
• 1:20:38
  Cartmoor Master Plan. So we have the whole the statue.
• 1:20:42
  No statue knows who the Doctor is.
• 1:20:45
  Lady Painforth knows because the statue knows.
• 1:20:47
  And that little thing at the end of, you know, Doctor Who are
• 1:20:50
  you? And we never find out.
• 1:20:52
  I mean, I just think it's it's trying to take the show
• 1:20:56
  creatively, mythos wise and visually in places it's never
• 1:21:00
  been before. And they just put, again, much
• 1:21:02
  like Remembrance, they just put so much effort into it.
• 1:21:05
  There's that little model shot at the end of the the nemesis
• 1:21:08
  being shot into space and it's it's C, not CGI D, it's CSO Don.
• 1:21:13
  But they they go to the effort of having big billowing things
• 1:21:17
  of smoke. The Cybermen look absolutely
• 1:21:20
  fantastic in their new shiny, shiny garb.
• 1:21:23
  And there's that fleet of Cybermen hanging over the earth
• 1:21:28
  and I just think it's brilliant. This is this is for me, a top
• 1:21:31
  ten Doctor Who story. It doesn't quite work.
• 1:21:34
  It's silly, it's camp, but it's jam packed with action and
• 1:21:38
  adventure, and McCoy and Algid are brilliance.
• 1:21:42
  Put this one through. OK, well shall we have a listen
• 1:21:45
  to what the listeners beyond think of Silver Nemesis joke?
• 1:21:50
  Those people. All right, let's do it.
• 1:21:52
  Yeah. David Gillespie Pratt says very
• 1:21:54
  much the underdog of the season, and the asbestos troubles did
• 1:21:57
  not help. The script is muddled and the
• 1:21:59
  production even more so. I didn't mind it when I borrowed
• 1:22:03
  my best friend's VHS tape over and over as it at least had a
• 1:22:06
  shiny cover. That's popular point and that US
• 1:22:10
  making of documentary. That shiny cover Darren lit?
• 1:22:13
  Roundel says Silver Nemesis was the story you'd play with
• 1:22:16
  friends on a trip to the countryside.
• 1:22:18
  Exactly, Darren. Exactly.
• 1:22:20
  I had such an excited reaction to the Part 1 cliffhanger.
• 1:22:24
  It's not a serious story. It has a good energy.
• 1:22:27
  It's a rompy run around that I hold no hate for.
• 1:22:30
  Scott, just, Scott says. Is it Scott from Earth Shop, do
• 1:22:34
  you think? I don't think it works at all,
• 1:22:37
  and it's a bit all over the place.
• 1:22:38
  Dare I even say unbroadcastable. OK, Paul Arthur, who I'm going
• 1:22:45
  to do as one of the skinheads because I don't like what he has
• 1:22:48
  to say. Definitely the weakest of the
• 1:22:51
  bunch and should be an easy bin. Nothing seems to come together
• 1:22:55
  and it feels like a bunch of disconnected characters thrown
• 1:22:58
  together at random. Oh my God, you see Dylan there?
• 1:23:01
  He's eyed you up for a role in one of his films.
• 1:23:03
  My God, Paul smiles, says another strong story, another
• 1:23:08
  OK. The side men look great.
• 1:23:10
  Location is again superb. However, the plot is a bit too
• 1:23:13
  similar to Remembrance. The temptation to do Paul Quinn
• 1:23:16
  is Anton differing. Oh go on, go on.
• 1:23:19
  Obviously a load of old crap Revenge to Remembrance is
• 1:23:23
  Genesis, but it is held together by some half decent direction,
• 1:23:27
  by Fiona Walker's phenomenal performance, pretty good as
• 1:23:31
  well, and by the strangeness of it all.
• 1:23:36
  Jolly but shite. I felt like doing Gareth Boley
• 1:23:41
  in the style of Sophie Aldridge, you know?
• 1:23:42
  All right, I've always liked this.
• 1:23:46
  The set. What is she?
• 1:23:47
  Sort of more middle class now, isn't she?
• 1:23:49
  I've always liked this. No, it doesn't work either.
• 1:23:52
  The set of Moody lighting is fantastic.
• 1:23:54
  Although not set on Earth, it feels eerily familiar.
• 1:23:57
  The Candy Man is great design. The Doctor toppling a regime is
• 1:24:01
  excellent, and it's more overt here in a hero mode.
• 1:24:05
  In the words of the pipe people, wicked.
• 1:24:09
  Andrew Tumble, who I'm going to do as the Cyber leader, says
• 1:24:13
  three of my favorite stories from this series.
• 1:24:17
  Unfortunately, they're all big pie of confused tastes.
• 1:24:23
  Feels a bit like the conclusion to Shuti's second season.
• 1:24:26
  Far too much going on, diluting the brilliance within.
• 1:24:31
  I think you should have gone brilliant.
• 1:24:35
  Within. I'm going to do John Arnold as a
• 1:24:38
  faux intellectual. OK, messy and complicated, but
• 1:24:42
  gets on by pure charm. Courtney Pine, this is Remington
• 1:24:45
  Social workers might not be objectively good, but it's
• 1:24:49
  definitely a good time. Annual night is the other
• 1:24:52
  Skinhead. I accidentally recorded Corrie
• 1:24:55
  instead of Part 2 Silver Nemesis.
• 1:24:57
  So for years I only had one and three years later I saw the VHS
• 1:25:03
  and it didn't make a blind bed difference.
• 1:25:06
  I'm with Gary Russell on this. It's terrible.
• 1:25:09
  I suppose we've got to follow this through.
• 1:25:11
  I'll do John Isles and the style of Mrs. Remington.
• 1:25:14
  The Cybermen are my favorite monster, so I was happy to see
• 1:25:19
  them in Silver Nemesis. 14 year old may have no problem with the
• 1:25:25
  skinheads or appropriately, Mrs. Remington of Remington Grange.
• 1:25:33
  Well, I'm going to say Kieran. Kieran Evans then as Gerard
• 1:25:37
  Murphy looks nice but the plot is a mess and further edits
• 1:25:43
  don't help. And it's just remembrance again,
• 1:25:46
  my lady, and not as well done. Poor Chris.
• 1:25:50
  I'm going to pull out my Sylvester McCoy now.
• 1:25:54
  I was so excited for the 25th anniversary special, but I found
• 1:25:57
  it all a bit silly. However, now I see it as a
• 1:26:01
  breezy bit of fun and it makes a hell of a lot of sense more than
• 1:26:05
  the programs recent output. We're running out of characters.
• 1:26:10
  Come on, keep going. Who's the old man from episode
• 1:26:14
  1? And Matt Lee Newby is going to
• 1:26:16
  be the old man from. Kaying.
• 1:26:18
  You know what I mean? Silver Nemesis is always marked
• 1:26:21
  out as the weak story from the Season 25 story and very
• 1:26:28
  obviously Kevin Clarke riffing on Derek Jarman's Jubilee.
• 1:26:35
  There's a lot going on, and the Cybermen are pretty superfluous
• 1:26:39
  but look great still. The cast are all fantastic.
• 1:26:45
  Who's left? You could do Queen, the Queen,
• 1:26:54
  the Queen, yes. OK, looks, look, it's a load of
• 1:26:58
  dart on Tosh, but it has great drive to it and constantly
• 1:27:02
  hopping around locations. It's a refreshing change for
• 1:27:06
  this period of the show. Come along little doggies, the
• 1:27:09
  direction is seriously lacking and if it wins this episode,
• 1:27:13
  shut the damn podcast down. Well, since we've done the
• 1:27:18
  Queen, I'm going to do Paul Dunn as the Queen's bodyguard, who I
• 1:27:21
  suspect only appears in the special edition and extended.
• 1:27:24
  One scene in the normal 1. The weak link of the season It
• 1:27:30
  it if not sure. That's not sure Paul's written
• 1:27:34
  this right. If if didn't, yeah, I'm going to
• 1:27:37
  insert a word there. If it didn't have the comedy
• 1:27:40
  turns, misses R, the skinheads, the Queen, it would be so much
• 1:27:46
  better. And Tom Differing clearly has no
• 1:27:49
  idea what's happening. The cyber battle at the
• 1:27:51
  beginning of Part 2 is good fun. Not bad, but could do better.
• 1:27:57
  I think we're out now, aren't we?
• 1:27:59
  Probably. Jay, we'll tell you what, we'll
• 1:28:01
  start to have a bit of fun with the other stories.
• 1:28:03
  Fiona Walker, have you done Fiona?
• 1:28:05
  Walker Oh my God. OK.
• 1:28:06
  Jason Thompson of. Course.
• 1:28:09
  Jason Thompson, I mean, Fiona Walker, they're as Florida as
• 1:28:12
  each other, right? Like his comments.
• 1:28:17
  This is fun but a bit shit, isn't it?
• 1:28:21
  Hardly an anniversary celebration, it's only three
• 1:28:26
  parts long and has the cramming and Cybermen, Nazis, 16th
• 1:28:31
  century witches and their quest for a Gallifrey and super
• 1:28:36
  weapon. And yet each episode still has
• 1:28:41
  scenes of. Pure batting.
• 1:28:47
  Well, and to round off this demonstration of of vocal
• 1:28:51
  dexterity, I'm going to do Cyhart, whoever he is, as the
• 1:28:56
  Canadian guy who presented the PBS documentary.
• 1:29:00
  This Time It's the Cyberman was fun and action-packed that
• 1:29:04
  carries it along with the incredible guest cast.
• 1:29:07
  Love the location hopping input one as they pieced the clues
• 1:29:10
  together. I mean, it's not great, but I
• 1:29:13
  remember the hairs on my hair standing as Lady P did her end
• 1:29:17
  speech. I've just thought of one last
• 1:29:19
  person, what I could do for as John Hall, and that is, of
• 1:29:22
  course, let's make magic Gary Downey.
• 1:29:25
  OK, I know exactly who was sleeping with who on Doctor Who.
• 1:29:31
  Easily the weakest story of the season.
• 1:29:33
  So and so was fucking so and so. And I'll tell you what are you
• 1:29:35
  give me another DW of No, I'm just making it out now.
• 1:29:38
  A pale retread of remembrance that fails to land in just about
• 1:29:42
  every way possible. Well, if that was Gary Downey,
• 1:29:45
  then James Belts had better be John Nathan Turner.
• 1:29:49
  Yes, as an adult I can see that there are red spots in the
• 1:29:53
  action a plot, but it felt fresh and exciting at the time.
• 1:29:57
  And I still think there is mileage left in Lady Painefort.
• 1:30:01
  I bet he fucking does. Luke, since Jenkins says was a
• 1:30:06
  silver Nemesis, was the first McCoy I owned and the second one
• 1:30:09
  I saw. I bloody love it and I don't
• 1:30:11
  care what anyone says, this is a banger.
• 1:30:14
  John Mensaya says as drama, it fails miserably.
• 1:30:17
  For unintentional comedy, it's priceless.
• 1:30:20
  De Flores is ineffectual, burbling those goons in their
• 1:30:24
  silly headphones. Painfults cuddly toy dog hair.
• 1:30:28
  Wow. He's not wrong.
• 1:30:30
  Skinheads, Missus Callan's Tea Shop Overtaken by Nutters.
• 1:30:34
  Again, he's not wrong. Kev's game show music?
• 1:30:37
  Yeah, not wrong. Etcetera.
• 1:30:40
  She does look like a poodle, doesn't she?
• 1:30:43
  Oh, dear. Yo.
• 1:30:44
  And I'm so sorry. Look, he's fallen asleep
• 1:30:46
  listening to us doing all those accents.
• 1:30:48
  And I'm very sorry about this, Gareth.
• 1:30:51
  Who's next? Where am I?
• 1:30:53
  Tim Carter. We're nearly there, guys.
• 1:30:54
  Don't worry, Fraser. Go make a cup of tea.
• 1:30:57
  Tim Carter. It's just a run around that
• 1:30:59
  makes the Cybermen look rubbish, Gareth.
• 1:31:02
  Have we not had Gareth barely or is he just comments for?
• 1:31:06
  Everything. There's so many comments they've
• 1:31:07
  circled around on themselves. I adore this, it's very
• 1:31:10
  quotable. As a child I thought this was a
• 1:31:12
  great run around and even more so as an adult.
• 1:31:15
  The Cybermen never looked better than they do here.
• 1:31:17
  Plus a mystery brought up on the doctor's past, but not at the
• 1:31:20
  cost of the story. Not sure story.
• 1:31:25
  Anthony Carroll, We are nearly getting our promise.
• 1:31:27
  Total mess, says Anthony Carroll.
• 1:31:29
  Embarrassing stuff such as punks and posh lady.
• 1:31:32
  You don't even give her a name. Cybermen joke figures 3 out of
• 1:31:36
  10. But he does say at the end,
• 1:31:39
  forgive me. OK, we forgive you, Anthony,
• 1:31:42
  Glenn Fitzgerald says. Surely the weakest of the
• 1:31:45
  series. Always feels a little messy.
• 1:31:47
  The Cybermen, albeit my favorite in inverted commas monster are
• 1:31:52
  not very menacing at all. Too much going on and nothing
• 1:31:55
  happening bin. Herald of Creation says Silver
• 1:31:59
  Nemesis is just too crowded, especially for three.
• 1:32:02
  Episodes Michael Storm, Joe's silver nemesis, says the second
• 1:32:07
  best side men story with Silver in the title.
• 1:32:11
  Objectively, this is the weakest story of the season.
• 1:32:13
  The TV version is a bit of a jumpy mess, though not as bad as
• 1:32:16
  Henry. Yes, yes.
• 1:32:18
  Interesting. Yeah, so the story isn't focused
• 1:32:20
  properly. However, it is great fun to
• 1:32:22
  watch. Joel Llewalan says maybe one too
• 1:32:26
  many ingredients. Cybermen, time travelling
• 1:32:29
  baddies and lame ass neo Nazis. Probably could Could lose the
• 1:32:34
  last group and misses Remington. Still pretty exciting.
• 1:32:38
  And finally, Chris Curtis says a photocopy of Remembrance.
• 1:32:43
  Too many characters for three episodes.
• 1:32:46
  Skinheads. Enough said.
• 1:32:49
  I can't tell from that, Chris, whether you really love them or
• 1:32:51
  hate them, but draw your own conclusions.
• 1:32:54
  Aces battle with the side members, a key point.
• 1:32:56
  Couldn't imagine Polly doing the same.
• 1:32:58
  Oh, Chris, I think I can. Imagine.
• 1:33:00
  With a. Polly Cocktail.
• 1:33:02
  Yeah. A new dynamic.
• 1:33:04
  Her action brings a lot to the story, something we've lacked.
• 1:33:09
  There was a lot of comments there for Silver Nemesis
• 1:33:10
  comments. Sorry.
• 1:33:12
  Sorry folks, thanks for your patience.
• 1:33:14
  Well, Joe, you, you seem to have thoughts on this one.
• 1:33:18
  Silver Nemesis or the story that Chris Clough forgot to direct.
• 1:33:22
  Where do we start? It was so bored at this point.
• 1:33:25
  Even says in Doctor Who magazine it was bawdy dad enough.
• 1:33:28
  And you can sort of tell the editing is terrible.
• 1:33:32
  It is like a narrative scratch disk this that's hops about from
• 1:33:35
  1 scene to another, one place to another like a flea on the
• 1:33:39
  griddle. I mean the Doctors mastery of
• 1:33:41
  the TARDIS has never been so pin sharp as it is in this story
• 1:33:45
  because he manages to go to every location and every time
• 1:33:48
  period. Kind of forgotten elsewhere in
• 1:33:51
  this. Setting it up for the new
• 1:33:52
  series. The dialogue is half sitcom
• 1:33:56
  dialogue, which admittedly is elevated by some very fruity
• 1:34:01
  performances, but it's kind of devoid of weight and substance.
• 1:34:05
  The what are you social workers gag.
• 1:34:07
  I'm sorry didn't. It is terrible.
• 1:34:10
  The music is trying to add pace to a story that wants to
• 1:34:14
  languidly saunter. They literally fucking walk
• 1:34:17
  slowly from 1 field to another. And the music.
• 1:34:21
  'S going. Like what are you?
• 1:34:23
  Doing. He's doing.
• 1:34:24
  His job, Joe. Yeah, just play some fucking
• 1:34:26
  jazz and you put jazz in this. Make it charming.
• 1:34:30
  Don't try and make it exciting. There's an overload of elements
• 1:34:34
  in this which we'll hear about in the comments.
• 1:34:35
  Nobody gets the focus they deserve.
• 1:34:38
  Characters like Carl and Richard get completely forgotten as a
• 1:34:41
  result. And bizarre.
• 1:34:43
  The redemption of Richard is so bizarre.
• 1:34:46
  Fucking asshole for the whole story.
• 1:34:47
  It's like, Oh well, we'll take you back you homicide or
• 1:34:50
  murderer that's been trying to kill us for the entire story.
• 1:34:52
  That's. What they were like in the past.
• 1:34:54
  Bullshit. People in this story tend to
• 1:34:58
  state their feelings and their motives because the script has
• 1:35:01
  no time. It has no time to let us
• 1:35:03
  actually explore those things because there's too much
• 1:35:06
  happening there. How fucking stupid are the side
• 1:35:09
  men in this? I mean, they are beyond stupid
• 1:35:12
  little scaredy cats. They might look polished, they
• 1:35:15
  may look a bit bling, bling, but that bit where they go, oh,
• 1:35:18
  gold, oh. Run.
• 1:35:20
  And then one arrow takes out half a bloody flea.
• 1:35:24
  They're being shot with fucking coins.
• 1:35:25
  Who thought this gold thing was a good idea?
• 1:35:28
  The worst bit is that the end where McCoy goes, oh, I'm going
• 1:35:32
  to arrange to have this thing set a pre arranged time.
• 1:35:34
  By the way Ace, what is the time?
• 1:35:36
  Come here It goes after her and they get fucking flame throws to
• 1:35:39
  death. They're so stupid in this, in no
• 1:35:43
  way a threat. The Doctor and Acer on the
• 1:35:46
  periphery of the plot throughout the entire story, just spelling
• 1:35:49
  out exposition rather than anybody actually discovering
• 1:35:53
  anything. It's just, it's just terrible.
• 1:35:56
  Anton differing, absolutely clueless in his part, not
• 1:35:59
  engaging with the other actors when he can be bothered to axe.
• 1:36:02
  He's just terrible. You betrayed me.
• 1:36:05
  Have I taught you nothing? Please.
• 1:36:07
  The funniest thing about him is the thing in their rehearsals,
• 1:36:10
  you know, where he saw Sophie Aldred and he went, he didn't
• 1:36:13
  talk to her for ages. And she went, oh, it's me, I
• 1:36:14
  play Ace. And he was like, you are Ace and
• 1:36:18
  you've been sent a video of dragon fire and he just went to
• 1:36:21
  a bad Sophie. You are so fat.
• 1:36:23
  Like. Charming.
• 1:36:26
  I think it's the one time where J&T's stunt casting fails to
• 1:36:31
  ignite the story and the way that you want it to because it
• 1:36:33
  does just feel like guest stars coming in trying to bolster what
• 1:36:37
  is actually a very empty story in in the way that Remembrance
• 1:36:42
  suggested a whole universe outside of Doctor Who as we know
• 1:36:47
  it in such an enticing way. It's like a fucking this isn't a
• 1:36:52
  scalp or it's a mallets of the face.
• 1:36:54
  You know, Doctor Who, have you never wondered who he is?
• 1:36:58
  Well, I know. Oh, fuck off.
• 1:37:00
  Yeah, it's kind of terrible in all sorts of ways.
• 1:37:03
  I fucking love it's pieces. It's a wonderful watch.
• 1:37:06
  It's very entertaining. Fiona Walker is just blissful.
• 1:37:10
  We ride to Destiny, all of that stuff.
• 1:37:13
  I just love it. But on every single level, I
• 1:37:17
  think the direction is very poor.
• 1:37:19
  The editing is is really very, very bad.
• 1:37:23
  Like unbroadcastly bad. At times there's a bit which
• 1:37:26
  cuts to Windsor Castle and instead of Kev doing what who
• 1:37:31
  does the music? The greatest show, instead of
• 1:37:34
  Marquez literally see scenes. He starts the music in one scene
• 1:37:38
  and fluidically takes you into the other.
• 1:37:40
  Kev don't do that. He stops the music at the end of
• 1:37:43
  the scene and then starts another very dramatic scene, a
• 1:37:46
  bit of music at the start. So it just suddenly starts
• 1:37:50
  going. It's really bad.
• 1:37:54
  No that. Starts his Windsor Castle theme.
• 1:37:57
  Yeah, but. Literally as a as he cuts to
• 1:38:00
  Windsor Castle. Which highlights it, highlights
• 1:38:03
  the jarring cart, the very bad edit in an even more dramatic
• 1:38:07
  way. Yeah, I it's just terrible.
• 1:38:11
  It's really fun, but it's not great TV.
• 1:38:14
  But hurrah for Silver Nemesis, the highest rated Sylvester
• 1:38:17
  McCoy story, the only story that grew significantly in ratings as
• 1:38:22
  it went. On is this the best one?
• 1:38:24
  Well, maybe. Maybe, I thought.
• 1:38:25
  I love it. I love it you.
• 1:38:26
  Can't argue with facts, Joe. But putting a critical eye on
• 1:38:30
  this Yeah, Chris Clough, you needed to go beat it.
• 1:38:34
  Can I, can I respond to that because I I?
• 1:38:38
  It depends. Are you going to tell him that
• 1:38:40
  he's wrong? Well, not exactly, because I I
• 1:38:44
  agree with fundamentally some of the facts that were just.
• 1:38:50
  I said facts. Really.
• 1:38:52
  I think, I mean the direction is incoherent and the editing is
• 1:38:55
  incoherent. And there are there are moments
• 1:38:57
  where things happen. You're like what where where
• 1:39:00
  they the side men get overpowered kind of off screen
• 1:39:04
  the Nazis and you're like, what just happened there?
• 1:39:07
  And and everything you've said about the too many elements, too
• 1:39:13
  many characters, not enough development, hopping from one
• 1:39:16
  location to another is also true.
• 1:39:19
  But I was thinking about this and I thought because, because
• 1:39:22
  obviously the this story doesn't have a fine reputation in spite
• 1:39:26
  of the shiny, shiny video, which was so exciting.
• 1:39:29
  I think fans have generally over the years considered this a
• 1:39:32
  disappointing anniversary story. And they're thinking back to the
• 1:39:35
  five doctors and going, well, Silver Nemesis is No 5 doctors.
• 1:39:39
  And yet everything you've said, it's it's kind of true.
• 1:39:42
  The Five Doctors, too many characters, too many elements
• 1:39:45
  hopping from one location to another.
• 1:39:48
  It's a, it's a walk from one location to to another.
• 1:39:51
  I mean, this is doing the same thing as the Five Doctors, which
• 1:39:54
  is lots of characters in different places going on a long
• 1:39:57
  time. I'm not suggesting the Five
• 1:39:59
  Doctors is well directed. I think you'll find The Five
• 1:40:03
  Doctors is more popular amongst the fandom than Silver Nemesis.
• 1:40:08
  And yet I'm arguing that Silver Nemesis is doing a very similar
• 1:40:12
  thing. Except that whereas The Five
• 1:40:15
  Doctors is a is a miserable walk in on your holiday in Wales,
• 1:40:20
  Silver Nemesis is a glorious walk through the countryside in
• 1:40:22
  the middle of the summer. And I think that the, the, the,
• 1:40:25
  the jazz element is a really interesting part of this because
• 1:40:29
  and, and, and it's clear from the extended versions that that
• 1:40:33
  was a part that actually there were more references to the jazz
• 1:40:36
  in the, in the script. And actually, I think that the
• 1:40:39
  the longer version benefits from making that explicit because I
• 1:40:42
  feel like it's like it's like a a jazz musician riffing on
• 1:40:49
  everything that's great about Doctor Who.
• 1:40:51
  But rather than doing it with kind of, you know, very mood,
• 1:40:55
  mood and mist and whales, it's doing it like, you know, well,
• 1:40:59
  this is the Doctor Who that you would play if you were a child
• 1:41:03
  going for a walk in the country, as surely we all did.
• 1:41:06
  And I used to love country walks for this very reason that, that
• 1:41:11
  a long walk was not boring because there could be Cybermen,
• 1:41:14
  there could be, you know, historical figures.
• 1:41:16
  And it does. And this story does that.
• 1:41:17
  It goes, it starts off in in one time period.
• 1:41:19
  And one we're we're in South America one moment, then we're
• 1:41:23
  in the past. And and then we're in Windsor
• 1:41:26
  Castle and we're going backwards and flat and he's flying that
• 1:41:28
  Tarvis like he's never found it before.
• 1:41:30
  And he keeps popping backwards and forwards.
• 1:41:31
  There's no kind of reason to it. And yet it's, it's highly
• 1:41:34
  enjoyable. And I feel like you can approach
• 1:41:37
  this story in one of two ways. You can look at all the things
• 1:41:41
  that are incoherent about it and the things that don't quite work
• 1:41:44
  and the things that don't make any sense at all.
• 1:41:48
  The comic sequences that in some ways are given rather more
• 1:41:53
  weight than the plot itself. Or you can say, well, no, but
• 1:41:56
  this is an anniversary celebration, which is saying
• 1:41:58
  that Doctor Who can be all of these things like and a little
• 1:42:01
  bit like a piece of jazz. It goes from here to here to
• 1:42:03
  here. And one one minute we're we're
• 1:42:05
  in Windsor Castle meeting the Queen in a scene that I I think
• 1:42:09
  I would have enjoyed very much even as a teenager with the
• 1:42:14
  shiny video. I wasn't quite solving that.
• 1:42:16
  But I think if I was younger, I would have loved it.
• 1:42:18
  And I think that then you kind of go to that amazing hanger
• 1:42:22
  space and there, there are Cybermen.
• 1:42:24
  Like, I mean, that that cliffhanger alone, just The Who
• 1:42:27
  are they Cybermen? It's, it's simple, but it's
• 1:42:30
  doing stuff that Doctor Who does.
• 1:42:31
  And then there's a big fight and there are bangs and there
• 1:42:33
  explosions. There's Fiona Walker, there's
• 1:42:36
  bows and arrows. They're following a thing with a
• 1:42:38
  glowing bow and arrow. I just think there's so much
• 1:42:40
  about this that is archetypal Doctor Who.
• 1:42:42
  And yeah, it's, it's a mess. But if, if you want a story that
• 1:42:46
  can show all the different things that Doctor Who can do,
• 1:42:49
  if you want a celebration of all the things that Doctor Who was
• 1:42:53
  doing in 1988, it does kind of do that.
• 1:42:56
  And it's so much fun. And it is like a walk in the
• 1:42:59
  country with the doctrine ace. And they're listening to jazz.
• 1:43:03
  And I, for one, am glad we've got it.
• 1:43:06
  So yes, objectively I should probably bin it, but I'm not
• 1:43:10
  going. To realize the irony of me
• 1:43:13
  criticizing somebody else's editing.
• 1:43:16
  But this does have an awkward staccato ineptness, just like
• 1:43:23
  this podcast, so maybe it's myself I'm criticizing.
• 1:43:28
  Who wants to go? I don't mind I, I, I am going to
• 1:43:32
  bin this one so. But maybe it's more interesting
• 1:43:37
  if Fraser goes after me because I agree with everyone's
• 1:43:43
  enthusiasm for it. I think it is a hugely enjoyable
• 1:43:47
  story and I'd happily watch it at any time.
• 1:43:50
  But this is strictly and I we need to have certain standards
• 1:43:54
  and Strictly have you? Listened to the.
• 1:43:57
  Standards of insanity, yes. Yes.
• 1:44:00
  I was choked on me. I really do think the first part
• 1:44:05
  of this is excellent. It's quite a lot like Stephen
• 1:44:09
  Moffat's Doctor Who. So is that maybe why you don't
• 1:44:12
  like it, Joe Ford? Very possibly.
• 1:44:15
  The way it jumps around, the amount of story elements, but I
• 1:44:18
  think it does the first part really well.
• 1:44:20
  It builds a lot of intrigue. It brings all these elements
• 1:44:24
  together and then it kind of collapses under its own weight.
• 1:44:28
  And I said at the start that this is a season that's fizzing
• 1:44:31
  with ideas. Well, this is like somebody
• 1:44:33
  shaking up the bottle. And the ideas have gone fucking
• 1:44:36
  everywhere because it's a story that kind of begs you to pay
• 1:44:41
  attention. And in paying attention, the
• 1:44:44
  floors just become all the more obvious.
• 1:44:46
  That's not again, to say it isn't enjoyable.
• 1:44:50
  It really is. I love the jazz stuff, James.
• 1:44:53
  Like you, I think the jam session gag is fantastic,
• 1:44:58
  genuinely funny. And that moment with the Simon
• 1:45:00
  Simon Says it is meaningless. That's just really actually
• 1:45:05
  funny. But then there's other stuff
• 1:45:08
  that you sort of feel like the script is chasing its own tail
• 1:45:12
  to explain things like the police turning up and then get
• 1:45:16
  knocked out with smoke. Then begs me to ask, well,
• 1:45:20
  didn't more police turn up? And what did they do when they
• 1:45:23
  saw all these dead Nazis inside the man?
• 1:45:25
  I just don't know. That's how my brain works.
• 1:45:28
  And I was also answers in the special edition, you know.
• 1:45:31
  Oh really? Cyber mats all along.
• 1:45:33
  Oh, I see. Yeah, OK.
• 1:45:35
  I was also curious if the Nazis took their guns with them when
• 1:45:38
  they went to hire the van that they came in.
• 1:45:43
  You can have it, mate, You can have it.
• 1:45:45
  Yeah. Again, the scene in the limo is
• 1:45:49
  is really fun, but why is it in Part 3 when the Doctor is on the
• 1:45:53
  way to stop compete in groups getting their hands on a super
• 1:45:56
  weapon? Part of me loves that because
• 1:45:59
  why is it there? Because it's Doctor Who, but
• 1:46:02
  trying to be. I've got a theory.
• 1:46:04
  OK. I think she's a curator style
• 1:46:07
  character and I think that is a feature incarnation of the
• 1:46:11
  Doctor. I'm also hoping for a special
• 1:46:13
  edition of Day of the Doctor where they CGI Dolores Gray into
• 1:46:18
  the Tom Baker Rd. You know, you really think you
• 1:46:21
  might. You can imagine.
• 1:46:23
  That. They can bring her back as a
• 1:46:25
  giant CGI creature at the end of our of the next series of Doctor
• 1:46:30
  Who whenever. That is supposed to go looking
• 1:46:31
  for Gallifrey. You surely are, honey, You
• 1:46:34
  surely are. Which is the key version of the
• 1:46:37
  Ronnie? Oh so well.
• 1:46:41
  The. Possibilities are endless.
• 1:46:43
  Who? Knows honey.
• 1:46:48
  The Cybermen are shite in this story.
• 1:46:51
  They look beautiful, but it's almost like somebody noticed
• 1:46:58
  when they were making when they were just the day before they
• 1:47:01
  started filming, that the story was very similar to Remembrance
• 1:47:05
  the Daleks in a lot of ways. But what they thought they'd
• 1:47:09
  done too well, remember Remembrance, was bring back this
• 1:47:12
  legendary villain and make them imposing and scary again.
• 1:47:16
  So what should we do this time? Make them as bad as possible?
• 1:47:20
  Something I only noticed this time around was that they're
• 1:47:23
  cyber slaves who are crap. Of course they're easily
• 1:47:28
  distracted, but the reason Ace is able to blow up their
• 1:47:31
  beautiful spaceship is because they left the fucking doors
• 1:47:35
  open. I mean, why, Why did they leave
• 1:47:40
  the doors open? Did they just want to, you know,
• 1:47:41
  do a favour for their cyber slaves and give them something
• 1:47:44
  to do you? Know make them feel the mats out
• 1:47:47
  to have a run around. Oh, that's what it is.
• 1:47:50
  They didn't want it to get too warm in the spaceship.
• 1:47:53
  OK, fair enough. I retract everything I just said
• 1:47:56
  about them. But I do think in, I'm going to
• 1:47:59
  say in pro wrestling terms, which Dylan might appreciate, is
• 1:48:02
  that you want to build up your heels, which are the bad guys in
• 1:48:07
  wrestling, so that when the baby faces, which are the good guys,
• 1:48:10
  beat them, it feels meaningful. But here the Cybermen are so
• 1:48:14
  inept that defeating them really doesn't feel like that much of
• 1:48:18
  an effort. There's some great effects in
• 1:48:21
  here. I think the production design
• 1:48:23
  and the explosions and the fighting and all that stuff is
• 1:48:26
  great. I really like even that little
• 1:48:29
  thing that comes out of the boom box.
• 1:48:31
  I'm not sure you call it like a little screen thing.
• 1:48:33
  I think that looks cool. Joe used the word saunter.
• 1:48:37
  I also used the word saunter. The way the Flores walks out
• 1:48:40
  with the crypt, he's throwing the gold in the face of the
• 1:48:44
  Simon. What was his?
• 1:48:46
  Plan. Was he trying to get away?
• 1:48:48
  Yeah, he. Wasn't in the.
• 1:48:50
  Cricket, yeah. Yeah, and I I've got a bit of a
• 1:48:55
  hot take about Kev's score here because I think purely as a
• 1:48:58
  listening experience, I think it's, it's a, I don't want to
• 1:49:03
  say better, but a more enjoyable score than Remembrance.
• 1:49:06
  There's some like stronger motifs that they use in there.
• 1:49:10
  Then when I'm watched it this time, I was like, oh, I'm sure I
• 1:49:12
  remembered that being in Remembrance of the Daleks.
• 1:49:14
  But no, it's in Silver Nemesis. But as good as his work is in
• 1:49:19
  this story, I think it's to its detriment that it also has Kath
• 1:49:21
  McCulloch composing the score because there's already so many
• 1:49:26
  similarities that can't help but pale to Remembrance.
• 1:49:31
  And it's great. It's really fun, but it's going
• 1:49:35
  in the bin, unfortunately. Apocalyptic queue where where
• 1:49:38
  where the the window explodes and.
• 1:49:40
  Yes, so good. Half doing, kind of.
• 1:49:44
  I mean, Joan, as a musician, are you familiar with Wagner's ring,
• 1:49:47
  this needle of them? I've certainly heard of it.
• 1:49:51
  And and you, where would you place that?
• 1:49:53
  Next to some of the Nemesis, for the better or worse.
• 1:49:57
  I've listened to more CAF than Wagner I'll be honest and it's
• 1:50:01
  nothing to do with the political views you know?
• 1:50:03
  I don't think CAF was an anti semite so that's good to know as
• 1:50:07
  well. That way CAF much more
• 1:50:09
  approachable than than. He is in a little way.
• 1:50:11
  I really like his use of orchestra hit, that particular
• 1:50:15
  sound, yes, here we go. That's all I've got to say on
• 1:50:19
  it. So it's going in the bin.
• 1:50:21
  Fraser, you have got the casting vote, I think.
• 1:50:24
  Is that how this works or no? Hang on, who started this?
• 1:50:28
  I I started it. Yes, so so your vote doesn't
• 1:50:32
  count, does. It Now you might have to flip a
• 1:50:33
  coin or something, James. No, no, it's fine.
• 1:50:35
  I mean, but Fraser might put it in the bin and then there'll be
• 1:50:38
  no need. For it's shit of the day shit.
• 1:50:41
  He's going to love it. It's not shit that's the thing,
• 1:50:46
  you have all sat there and said exactly the same thing.
• 1:50:50
  This is enjoyable. I enjoy this, but for reasons.
• 1:50:54
  I think Underworld is enjoyable as well though, but I don't
• 1:50:57
  think it's Pete Telly. Which would you put on if you
• 1:51:01
  had to choose between Underworld and Silver?
• 1:51:02
  Nemesis Silver. Sophie Aldrin or Louise Jameson.
• 1:51:07
  That's not. It depends how bad the day has
• 1:51:09
  gone. If it's a really bad day, I
• 1:51:11
  couldn't possibly choose Sophie. So.
• 1:51:20
  I guess you reduce, we're all just shocked.
• 1:51:24
  I mean, like I say, it's enjoyable.
• 1:51:27
  You know, you watch it, you enjoy it.
• 1:51:29
  I mean, what more do you want from from Doctor Who?
• 1:51:32
  Really. I think the thing that struck me
• 1:51:35
  about this was, you know, we have got 2 versions of the 25th
• 1:51:38
  anniversary story, one done by the script editor and one done
• 1:51:42
  by the producer. It's the same story but done
• 1:51:47
  differently. So this is, you know, we've had
• 1:51:49
  Remembrance of the Daleks, which is Cartmel's tape on the 25th
• 1:51:53
  anniversary. And this is GNT.
• 1:51:55
  So obviously it is, it's lighter, it's low on the drama,
• 1:52:00
  high on entertainment. Why?
• 1:52:03
  Why would you not want to watch it again and put it through?
• 1:52:09
  Obviously, you know, didn't know what he's all going to be
• 1:52:11
  saying. I have got my theories into if I
• 1:52:13
  couldn't remember. I just want to address some of
• 1:52:14
  the points raised, which is, you know, the why is the the Mrs.
• 1:52:19
  Remington seen in Part 3 when the doctor is trying to stop the
• 1:52:23
  villains getting super weapon. He's not he's not doing that at
• 1:52:27
  all. He's he's just wants them there
• 1:52:31
  at the same at the right time. You know, you when you realise
• 1:52:35
  that as soon as the Doctor twigs are the alarm clock's going off
• 1:52:38
  because Nemesis is back, you know he knows exactly what's
• 1:52:41
  going to happen at the end and exactly what time he needs the
• 1:52:44
  Cybermen and Pain thought and the Nazis to be in their
• 1:52:49
  respective positions. The rest of the story is him
• 1:52:52
  just manoeuvring that around. So you get this story, which has
• 1:52:56
  got a great sense of very little happening quite quickly, but
• 1:53:02
  it's all because it's just the antithesis of the 7th Doctor as
• 1:53:07
  the Master manipulate, They're just pushing people here and
• 1:53:10
  there, you know, Oh, well, I need to get this person over
• 1:53:13
  here. So I'll just nip in with a bow
• 1:53:14
  and I'll nip out again and I'll go back in time and I'll go
• 1:53:17
  forward in time and you know, it's.
• 1:53:19
  It is. Really just sort of the
• 1:53:22
  macrocosm of the Cartmel master plan, you know, are.
• 1:53:27
  You suggesting that the doctor arranged for that limousine to
• 1:53:31
  take Lady Painful. It's the curator.
• 1:53:34
  I've just said curator, yeah. Yeah.
• 1:53:36
  Oh, so she already knew. Yeah, right.
• 1:53:39
  OK. Yeah, it's it's all part of the
• 1:53:41
  plan. It's you know, by the by the
• 1:53:43
  time you get to that end point and that final scenes, it's
• 1:53:45
  quite it's quite long. You know, we'll get to the
• 1:53:48
  warehouse, you know, quite early on in Part 3 and, you know, and
• 1:53:53
  to have everyone stood where they need to be, you know, that
• 1:53:57
  that takes a little bit of skill, not just in terms of
• 1:53:59
  Doctor Who Doctor, but in the writing as well.
• 1:54:01
  Of of the plates are spoon and you know, everyone can say oh,
• 1:54:04
  but not that it's really dull and you know, there's too many
• 1:54:07
  elements. It's all the elements are just
• 1:54:09
  juggled really, really well to get to to that point.
• 1:54:13
  I feel. I think the Remington scene is
• 1:54:16
  really good as well because it gives you this, this little peek
• 1:54:18
  into pain forts back story, which otherwise you don't get,
• 1:54:22
  you know, the, the, Oh yeah, I know the Remington's thieves and
• 1:54:27
  swindlers all you know. It was a slow death.
• 1:54:33
  It's unbelievable. That's what they say.
• 1:54:37
  It's a great just little daft little scene that just adds a
• 1:54:41
  little bit of extra. So anyhow, the three reasons why
• 1:54:44
  I'm going to keep this through, put us through is it's #1 it's a
• 1:54:49
  very prescient story. For all that we've said.
• 1:54:53
  Remembrance of the Dog sets the tone for the series.
• 1:54:55
  I think this one is is very much sets a tone in a template of a
• 1:55:00
  lot of stories to come. You only mentioned that, you
• 1:55:03
  know, it's very Moffaty, but it's very RTD as well.
• 1:55:06
  You know, you've got you know, like I say, the entertainment
• 1:55:09
  comes first. The drama is second.
• 1:55:10
  It is there. There is some drama in it, but
• 1:55:13
  you know, there's just this little sprinkling of of darkness
• 1:55:16
  and mystery, but you've got laughs and you've got
• 1:55:18
  entertainment just going all the way through it, like the
• 1:55:20
  Raspberry ripple ice cream. There's so many things that
• 1:55:23
  Moffat and Rusty borrow from this.
• 1:55:26
  So you've got like the the theme.
• 1:55:28
  So you, you've got like the pop culture trappings, you've got
• 1:55:30
  like the Courtney Pine Jazz Quartet in there, and you've got
• 1:55:33
  the celeb cameos or the fake celeb cameos with the Queen
• 1:55:36
  popping up. You've got the tiny whiny
• 1:55:38
  storytelling because someone's got to see it having the tiny
• 1:55:40
  whiny ones. You know, the TARDIS strips.
• 1:55:43
  I love the TARDIS strips. I love the idea of them actually
• 1:55:45
  going backwards and forwards in time.
• 1:55:47
  You know, when there's probably dozens of times that happened in
• 1:55:51
  the past, You know, because I keep tripping myself when I say
• 1:55:53
  this. But when is Doctor, whoever done
• 1:55:54
  this before? Answers on a postcard.
• 1:55:56
  People. So little things as well, Just
• 1:56:01
  these little motifs. We've got the fez there, we've
• 1:56:04
  got the Arrow in the TARDIS like it's stuck in the TARDIS.
• 1:56:08
  You've got the Cybermen controlling people through
• 1:56:10
  headsets, which we'll see. Come back, Doctor Who.
• 1:56:15
  Oh for fuck. Yeah, this, you know, the future
• 1:56:19
  stories borrow so much from this one to come in.
• 1:56:22
  And like I say, more than anything, it is just the the
• 1:56:24
  Cartmel master plan writ large. It's full of mysterious
• 1:56:27
  portents. There's things set up that's
• 1:56:29
  going to pay off in other stories, like the chess board.
• 1:56:31
  And it's the doctor was much more than a Time Lord.
• 1:56:35
  And how good does McCoy lean into that in that final scene
• 1:56:39
  where, you know, I will tell everyone your secrets?
• 1:56:41
  He's like, go on then, but I will, Doctor, I will tell them
• 1:56:46
  all about Gallifrey in the old times and off you go.
• 1:56:49
  But he's just so his face is just so you know, drawn and
• 1:56:55
  brood and just staring at another really fantastic turn by
• 1:56:59
  McCoy. Which leads us nicely into Part
• 1:57:00
  2 at .2, which is the Doctor and Ace together.
• 1:57:06
  It was mentioned when we talked about Remembrance and I was
• 1:57:08
  going to talk about that, but I had to keep things short.
• 1:57:11
  So I moved here to see the the the quantum leap between the
• 1:57:15
  doctrine ace in dragon fight and remembrance.
• 1:57:18
  If you, you know, sit on your iPlayer and you watch dragon
• 1:57:21
  fire and you just roll straight into remembrance, you'd think
• 1:57:24
  where is the missing series between that?
• 1:57:27
  You know, I'm pretty sure big Finish will done submit on the
• 1:57:30
  missing adventures and loads of stuff on that front.
• 1:57:32
  But it's really striking how and how much they leap in that time
• 1:57:37
  between film and dragon fire and and remembrance.
• 1:57:40
  But here, it's just such a lovely relationship, you know.
• 1:57:43
  Dylan. Yeah.
• 1:57:43
  They're sitting and watching jazz.
• 1:57:45
  They're having a picnic again. When do we ever see this?
• 1:57:48
  When do we see the doctor sit, You know, just chilling.
• 1:57:51
  Yeah, just chilling. I'm going to watch some jazz.
• 1:57:53
  And then things are going to happen.
• 1:57:56
  The way they understand each other is just so easy as well.
• 1:57:59
  So have you got any night row nine?
• 1:58:01
  No, not at all. Nice one.
• 1:58:03
  Go blow up that shit for us then, please.
• 1:58:05
  You know, they just understand that you're just so relaxed.
• 1:58:09
  You know they are lying, sunbathe and listening to jazz.
• 1:58:12
  You know, while you. Feel the urgency, can't you
• 1:58:15
  coming off? Can you can because they're
• 1:58:17
  doing what they need to do to service the script, which is
• 1:58:19
  just fit around. Let everything you know.
• 1:58:24
  They aren't doing much because the wheels are in motion and
• 1:58:27
  they just need to let the wheels turn.
• 1:58:28
  The Doctor and his companions haven't been this relaxed since
• 1:58:31
  The Chase, which is another classic story.
• 1:58:33
  Nonsense. I was fishing at the start of
• 1:58:35
  the two doctors. One of them was complaining.
• 1:58:38
  Dylan, which one? Did they put?
• 1:58:39
  On the scene at all. The Walking through a field, you
• 1:58:44
  know, with the boat whistling away, you know, And then they
• 1:58:47
  have that lovely bit where, you know, Ace turns the doctor and,
• 1:58:50
  you know, I'm, I'm really scared.
• 1:58:52
  I've got to, you know, to open up and say I'm really scared.
• 1:58:54
  And he's like, do you want to go back to the tall?
• 1:58:56
  He said, oh, no, I just want to tell you that I'm really scared.
• 1:58:58
  And, you know, to get right to the end.
• 1:59:01
  And, you know, she just has this such steadfast faith in him at
• 1:59:05
  the end. He's like, yeah, no one knows
• 1:59:06
  who the doctor is. And you know what?
• 1:59:08
  No one cares. I will ask him later on, but I
• 1:59:11
  don't care too much. And it's who said it in the
• 1:59:14
  comments, was it Daniel Knight? I think you might have said, you
• 1:59:16
  know, this is the best we've had since St.
• 1:59:18
  Tom and is basically the. The.
• 1:59:21
  Best chemistry and the best relationship between the doctor
• 1:59:23
  and companion. Seen the companions between then
• 1:59:25
  and this. I mean, I know this is it.
• 1:59:28
  Well, I mean, two of them did get married, a particular point.
• 1:59:33
  Just saying 3rd and final point then you know, it's it's the one
• 1:59:37
  that he's of all kind of said a shit.
• 1:59:39
  It's the Cybermen and the Cybermen, yes, a bit shit.
• 1:59:42
  They're brilliant. They're not the shit, but
• 1:59:45
  they're so funny. Brilliant.
• 1:59:46
  They're not the shit, but they are.
• 1:59:48
  They are enjoyable because of their shitness.
• 1:59:51
  You know, they are, you know, the, the, the, that first
• 1:59:56
  cliffhanger where they just appear, you know, it's an
• 1:59:58
  absolute Peach of a cliffhanger. You know where they just walk
• 2:00:00
  out and they are looking as shiny and sexy as you like and
• 2:00:03
  they've got that big Dick energy for Cybermen.
• 2:00:06
  Sophie Aldridge certainly thought one of them did.
• 2:00:08
  Yeah. She keeps saying they saved my
• 2:00:10
  life. They haven't got a fucking clue
• 2:00:12
  she's about to be killed. But you know, the IT does go a
• 2:00:17
  little bit sideways after that. You know, you've the kind of
• 2:00:20
  become a bit like the Sontarans, you know, sort of like they are.
• 2:00:25
  We just kind of laughing at them rather than with them at certain
• 2:00:28
  points. I think, you know, there is this
• 2:00:30
  the human condition known as madness.
• 2:00:32
  Yes it is. Kill them.
• 2:00:35
  Again, it's the Cybermen doing the chase, isn't it?
• 2:00:38
  Yeah. Yeah, it's the B arc Cybermen.
• 2:00:41
  It just. Works though, because, you know,
• 2:00:44
  it's like, what's this? It's jazz, What's meaningless?
• 2:00:47
  It's like everyone's a critic now.
• 2:00:48
  It's just a joke. That works on quite a few levels
• 2:00:51
  in that respect. You know, they have.
• 2:00:54
  The little Monty Python moment was like gold.
• 2:00:57
  Run away, run away. Terrible.
• 2:00:59
  I like my Cybermen with personality, you know?
• 2:01:02
  The one that just stands there waiting for the arrow to hit him
• 2:01:05
  and then all the rest sort of go.
• 2:01:09
  Dylan's hit the nail right on the head there.
• 2:01:11
  They've got personality. And this is what Slight kind of
• 2:01:14
  gets forgetting about in the 60s, you know, they just become
• 2:01:17
  sort of like these these blunt instruments, these, you know,
• 2:01:20
  faceless, emotionless, you know, Press of danger that's coming
• 2:01:26
  towards, you know, in a space under siege.
• 2:01:28
  But you get into the 80s and you get David Banks long and this
• 2:01:31
  they get a personality. They are cyber men that really
• 2:01:35
  comes across. You know, it's like, you know,
• 2:01:37
  they shouldn't have personalities because the
• 2:01:40
  emotionless creatures go tell that the Spock.
• 2:01:44
  Anyone complaints about Spock having a personality.
• 2:01:46
  So don't complain about the Cybermen.
• 2:01:47
  Those gossipy ones in Earth Shock or that one in the Five
• 2:01:50
  Doctors who's really proud? I have found the ones from the
• 2:01:53
  Tardars. The little bitchy one here,
• 2:01:56
  little like, you know, we should go away because it's good.
• 2:02:00
  And the cyber leader's like, well, I kind of, I kind of let
• 2:02:02
  him know he's right. I can't argue with your logic
• 2:02:05
  there, you little bitch. And.
• 2:02:07
  Banks and Mark Hardy give it a kind of homoerotic quality as
• 2:02:10
  well, don't they? Yeah, it's just bonkers.
• 2:02:14
  It really is bonkers. But it's brilliant.
• 2:02:16
  It's fun. It's entertaining.
• 2:02:18
  It's it's it's what you want from Doctor Who, to be honest,
• 2:02:22
  you know? Yeah, people complaining they
• 2:02:25
  want about not having enough drama, but you just want
• 2:02:27
  something fun, you can sit down and watch drama, Fraser.
• 2:02:30
  Coherence, you know it's skill when it's execution.
• 2:02:34
  Basic things, you know. Right, if we're going to stop
• 2:02:37
  making the list of the Doctor Who stories which fall down in
• 2:02:40
  their execution. Well, we've still got the
• 2:02:41
  happiness control. Go to go.
• 2:02:43
  Yeah. So yes, indeed.
• 2:02:44
  It's going to be a very long list over the preceding 25
• 2:02:47
  years, you know, You know, wobbly sets crap.
• 2:02:52
  Look at monsters. Yeah, they've all come up there,
• 2:02:54
  but you know. But he's got all the elements,
• 2:02:57
  he's got the location work, he's got the resources, it's just
• 2:03:00
  really badly short. Yeah so of other shows you know
• 2:03:05
  we we sat and we did you know six part commentary on tinfoil
• 2:03:11
  aliens and Derek Deadman is a Santorum and we'd.
• 2:03:15
  Love. No, You was.
• 2:03:16
  I wasn't kind about that at all. We lapped it up.
• 2:03:19
  We loved every minute of that. And, you know, because we looked
• 2:03:22
  past it and we said, you know, yeah, it looks a little bit of a
• 2:03:25
  shanty, but you know what, It's still a really fun story.
• 2:03:28
  It's still a really enjoyable things.
• 2:03:30
  Yeah. You know the editing, you know
• 2:03:32
  we know why the edit, and it's because Carmel can't edit
• 2:03:35
  scripts. Umm, that's why the editor.
• 2:03:37
  No, I think that's cloth because there's the same issues in
• 2:03:40
  Happiness Patrol with the Gators to.
• 2:03:42
  Yeah, because there's, there's too much in there.
• 2:03:44
  There's too much He needs to take stuff out.
• 2:03:46
  So what you're going to take out, you know, is he going to
• 2:03:47
  take out umm, you know, the, you know, the bits that don't add
• 2:03:53
  anything to the story, obviously going to, you know, probably
• 2:03:56
  take out the bits where, you know, account that goes from
• 2:03:58
  point A to point B and then all of a sudden you're sitting there
• 2:04:00
  going, well, yeah, it was lovely that they had that little chat,
• 2:04:02
  but how the hell did he get from the marketplace to over here?
• 2:04:04
  And how did he get from the crypto here?
• 2:04:06
  And you know, there's there's reason to make a.
• 2:04:08
  Smooth transition though, from scene to scene.
• 2:04:10
  There was a lot taken out. Greater show as well, and it's
• 2:04:13
  so smooth, that story. We'll get there, we'll get
• 2:04:17
  there. So end of the day, you know,
• 2:04:20
  it's a hit, a palpable hit I can't put me through.
• 2:04:24
  I can't believe I just described David Banks and Mark Hardy as
• 2:04:27
  homoerotic and you all just nodded.
• 2:04:30
  There's that lovely scene in the documentary where they're
• 2:04:32
  putting their suits on, aren't they?
• 2:04:33
  And they're in their knickers. Oh God, it's gorgeous.
• 2:04:35
  Seminole. We're March outed.
• 2:04:37
  They're knickers. That's right.
• 2:04:39
  I mean if. You consider the PBS documentary
• 2:04:42
  Part 4 of this story then, of course is going through.
• 2:04:47
  On that basis, we we better put it through.
• 2:04:50
  It's a tie, but it was proposed as as a yes by Dylan and not
• 2:04:54
  least to make sure we have some sort of tension left for the for
• 2:04:57
  the grand finale of this podcast.
• 2:04:59
  Nemesis is through. Although can I just say one last
• 2:05:02
  thing? Just one last thing, one little
• 2:05:03
  little thing, and that is phrasing.
• 2:05:05
  You did remind me. There is one agonizing moment of
• 2:05:08
  Sophie Audrey's acting in this season.
• 2:05:09
  It's in Silver Nemesis. It's like she does her best
• 2:05:12
  Grange Hill when she goes No chance, Professor, no chance and
• 2:05:16
  then walks off. Oh, terrible.
• 2:05:18
  It's really interesting this one because she calls them Doctor
• 2:05:21
  all the way through. She calls professor a few times,
• 2:05:23
  but she starts really calling them Doctor as really noticeable
• 2:05:27
  when you go back and watch it. Like how much is now?
• 2:05:29
  Actually call them Doctor. And she's called upon to act.
• 2:05:31
  You know it's not good. Joe I, I I'm getting the
• 2:05:36
  impression that of the two remaining stories, you may be
• 2:05:39
  thinking of being in one of them and keeping the other.
• 2:05:42
  Would you like to? Would you like to go next and
• 2:05:44
  choose which that will be? Oh, I didn't think I was going
• 2:05:47
  to have to do this because there was 4 of you.
• 2:05:50
  I would like to keep the greatest show in the Galaxy,
• 2:05:55
  please, which I think is the best story of the year.
• 2:06:00
  This is the one that I think is looking ahead to where T VS
• 2:06:03
  going in the 90s, certainly like in America, but in Britain as
• 2:06:07
  well in the 90s. I'm kind of talking technically
• 2:06:11
  here. It's it's faster paced, it's got
• 2:06:14
  fluidic editing, it has a cinematic score.
• 2:06:17
  It's all on location. There's slick tracking shots
• 2:06:20
  when people are walking and talking, very West Wing.
• 2:06:24
  There's effects to stress the scale of the production
• 2:06:27
  throughout. I think it's a beautiful
• 2:06:30
  production. Alan Waring was such a great
• 2:06:32
  find. I I love the production of
• 2:06:36
  Remembrance, but there are shonky moments in it, like
• 2:06:39
  wobbly Daleks and things like that.
• 2:06:41
  This is just flawless. I just can't see.
• 2:06:44
  You could take a, a photograph of any part of this story and
• 2:06:48
  you'll be able to show a beautiful image, you know?
• 2:06:51
  And he just remembers to do stuff in the background all the
• 2:06:54
  time as well. The bits where Captain Cook is,
• 2:06:57
  you know, doing his thing in the ring, the Doctor insults him and
• 2:07:00
  all the clowns are going behind, you know, absolutely shocked.
• 2:07:04
  It's wonderful. I think it's one of the best
• 2:07:07
  scores of the 80s. I think it's one of the best
• 2:07:08
  scores full stop. In a Doctor Who story, a
• 2:07:12
  psychedelic soundscape, genuinely as atmosphere and a
• 2:07:15
  sense of foreboding. I've already said it links
• 2:07:18
  scenes with movement and energy, creates a mood of disquiet and
• 2:07:22
  of excitement. Mark Ayers, another stunning
• 2:07:26
  find. What did he do next year?
• 2:07:29
  Ghost live? Come on, all the music next year
• 2:07:33
  is wonderful. I needed the original myth
• 2:07:35
  makers thing. This is Sir, did he bid it?
• 2:07:42
  This is Doctor Who faces the gods, right?
• 2:07:45
  Which is you think, oh, how are they ever going to do that on a
• 2:07:48
  Doctor Who budget? Really cleverly, actually, with
• 2:07:51
  glorious economy in episodes, one for free with that family
• 2:07:55
  that are commenting on just how shit the whole thing is, and
• 2:07:58
  then with some massive scale and punchy design with the gods of
• 2:08:02
  Ragnarok at the end of the story.
• 2:08:04
  I think for once the money is there to give this like the
• 2:08:08
  sense of epic that the story needs.
• 2:08:11
  Yeah, it's a small tent, but he makes it feel climactic.
• 2:08:15
  That last episode. And I'm going to phrase
• 2:08:19
  Sylvester McCoy again because of of the four stories this year, I
• 2:08:24
  I think Remembrance is his best, but this is his most
• 2:08:26
  comfortable. He's an entertainer.
• 2:08:29
  And in episode 4 of this, he just has to stand there and
• 2:08:32
  entertain people. So all of his tricks and
• 2:08:35
  distractions start coming out. It might be his ultimate turn in
• 2:08:39
  the part. All that's missing really is the
• 2:08:41
  ferret, but I don't know if they would have got that in.
• 2:08:44
  Who knows? Who knows?
• 2:08:45
  There are some garbled line readings here.
• 2:08:47
  That one I sent you all. What are you saying?
• 2:08:52
  Like, but as the the trickster, you know, that's got all these
• 2:08:58
  schemes up his sleeve. I think this is this might be
• 2:09:01
  the best characterization of the 7th Doctor.
• 2:09:06
  I think it's just glorious on every level.
• 2:09:08
  This I'm kind of going to be brief because we spent a lot of
• 2:09:11
  time on Remembrance of the Daleks, but it's stylish it it's
• 2:09:16
  packed full of wonderful, weird, eccentric characters.
• 2:09:20
  The set pieces, isn't it? I love, I fucking love that bus
• 2:09:24
  controller. I want a there and back off.
• 2:09:26
  Peak Super Saver senior citizen. Buy a monthly season with
• 2:09:29
  optional luggage facility, a free cup of coffee and a plastic
• 2:09:31
  cup. I make a snappy and metallic
• 2:09:32
  moron. I mean, you got that right.
• 2:09:35
  I know I've been saying that since I was 7, though.
• 2:09:38
  And Ice touches the button and he blows up.
• 2:09:40
  It's just great. The robot coming out of the
• 2:09:42
  sand, punk werewolf mags. I mean, it just keeps throwing
• 2:09:47
  stuff at you. This story, it's absolutely
• 2:09:50
  glorious. It's my favorite of the year.
• 2:09:52
  Is it the best? I think Remember, it's the best,
• 2:09:55
  but it's my favorite story of the year.
• 2:09:58
  My second favorite story of the entire era.
• 2:10:01
  Please, can we put the greatest show in the Galaxy Fruit?
• 2:10:03
  It's wonderful. It's you know how he always
• 2:10:07
  cites 2000 AD as an influence? This is the only story where I
• 2:10:11
  really feel it's influence. I think Paradise Towers tries
• 2:10:15
  to, but because of the execution it never feels like it.
• 2:10:18
  But here I can I can see it. You could see any of these
• 2:10:21
  characters in Megacity, can't you?
• 2:10:24
  Well, so it's a it's a big thumbs up for greatest show from
• 2:10:29
  Joe Ford. What do the listeners think?
• 2:10:32
  Oh wow, David Gillespie Pratt says.
• 2:10:35
  The Greatest Show in the Galaxy, sadly isn't.
• 2:10:38
  It has a lot going for it. It's got so many ideas and
• 2:10:41
  striking images, a great guest cast and a wonderful soundtrack.
• 2:10:44
  It all ends up a bit unsatisfying with a final
• 2:10:46
  episode that doesn't quite work except for the shot of the
• 2:10:49
  Doctor and that explosion. Herald of Creation says when it
• 2:10:53
  was broadcast I was absolutely terrified about how potentially
• 2:10:56
  awful the greatest show in the Galaxy was going to be, but in
• 2:10:58
  reality it is the stand out episode of the season.
• 2:11:02
  My silver nemesis, Michael Storm, from the outset, this is
• 2:11:06
  this is an unnerving tone with great direction and a superb
• 2:11:09
  score. This perhaps is the epitome of
• 2:11:12
  Cartmel's who as a graphic novel vision, and it's sows the seeds
• 2:11:15
  of where we're going in 26. It's scary, clever and funny.
• 2:11:19
  A masterpiece. It's such a pity that Stephen
• 2:11:21
  Wyatt didn't write a season 26 story or a new adventure.
• 2:11:25
  I said that on the 26th. That's the one thing that's
• 2:11:28
  missing there for me is Wyatt. Chris Curtis says great visuals
• 2:11:33
  and a story that shows how mad and alien the show can and
• 2:11:37
  should be. You couldn't make this on any
• 2:11:39
  other show. Soundtrack good apart from the
• 2:11:41
  rap. It was the 80s.
• 2:11:43
  Murdering bus conductors, that's who, through and through.
• 2:11:47
  Sean Arnold is in a very violent mood when he says if you've been
• 2:11:51
  this, I'm sending Sophie around your house with a baseball bat.
• 2:11:56
  Of the chief clown in IT and I'm saying, Sophie around your house
• 2:11:59
  this with a baseball bat. Oh that's beautiful.
• 2:12:02
  Could you do the next comment in that voice?
• 2:12:04
  I'll do it in the Morgana. And then I am sending around to
• 2:12:08
  stuffed edits down your trousers.
• 2:12:10
  And then after a decade long diet, I don't know why I'm
• 2:12:13
  rushing now of whatever disgusting slop Peggy mounts
• 2:12:17
  serving up a zombie TP McKenna to bore you to death.
• 2:12:21
  And that's just because I'm in a merciful mood and I like you
• 2:12:24
  all. In short, it's the best thing
• 2:12:27
  the show has ever done. Oh, I'm really liking them more,
• 2:12:29
  Garner. I think I might just carry on
• 2:12:31
  with that trend. Joe Llewellyn says I'd second a
• 2:12:34
  favorite McCoy. I'm not afraid of clowns, but
• 2:12:37
  the Chief clown is downright scary and a fantastic
• 2:12:40
  performance. Max was awesome and I wish we
• 2:12:42
  saw more of her. I love 80s dystopia.
• 2:12:46
  The calculating Dr. took center stage, literally.
• 2:12:51
  Shoe come at. Shoe.
• 2:12:53
  Come at Carol and Ford for our offensive foreign accents in
• 2:12:56
  audios. All right, I remember that
• 2:12:59
  conversation Andrew Tumble in the style of Rico Ross goes the
• 2:13:05
  perfect balance top silly and. Sinister done on a.
• 2:13:08
  Budget of £2 and a Jared Kenkel keep.
• 2:13:12
  James Belts. We're going to be the the
• 2:13:17
  random, the lady with the foods. Oh, Peggy Mount.
• 2:13:20
  Yeah, Peggy Mount. Probably the story that appealed
• 2:13:24
  to me that most as a kid but doesn't have much to offer as an
• 2:13:27
  adult, apart from the gorgeous, incongruous visuals of circles
• 2:13:31
  and robots and deserts and hippies.
• 2:13:34
  Captain Cook and Wizkid Labour. The allegory.
• 2:13:37
  This could have been children. This could have been a Children
• 2:13:39
  in Need spoof. You are fucking brilliant at
• 2:13:43
  this. Jesus Christ.
• 2:13:45
  Matney Luby then in the style of Wizkid.
• 2:13:49
  Greatest Show is wonderfully surreal and terrified me as a
• 2:13:52
  kid watching it due to my oh God how do you say that called?
• 2:13:57
  Cholera phobia. Cholera phobia.
• 2:13:59
  The reveal of the chief clown dressed as an undertaker during
• 2:14:02
  a hearse had me literally falling off my chair and hiding
• 2:14:05
  for the rest of the episode, but I'm still terribly interested.
• 2:14:11
  Well Scott then, in the style of the Captain, have more time, a
• 2:14:14
  greater show these days. But while I can appreciate the
• 2:14:17
  challenges they face making it happen at all, I was never
• 2:14:20
  convinced it was worth it. Paul Quinn in the style of the
• 2:14:24
  Chief clown. Funny, scary, sad, meta textual
• 2:14:29
  Greatest Show is one of the best stories of the 80s.
• 2:14:34
  Paul Smythe didn't get a voice. Because, like, I don't think you
• 2:14:35
  won. Once again the guest car it's a
• 2:14:37
  magnificent in particular in Redington as the chief clown.
• 2:14:40
  Love the Doctor in this. The location has inspired Mark
• 2:14:42
  Ayers. Music is my favorite in the
• 2:14:44
  whole of Who. Daniel Noyes says successfully
• 2:14:47
  cracks the oddball vibe Andrew Cartmer was trying for Season
• 2:14:50
  24. Weird, wacky and.
• 2:14:52
  Sinister Jason Thompson controversy says As heretical as
• 2:14:56
  this sounds, this much vaunted classic does very little for me.
• 2:15:01
  One thing the McCoy era has is 3 part stories showing just how
• 2:15:04
  drawn out even the common four part story can be.
• 2:15:07
  It just doesn't really keep me engaged.
• 2:15:09
  A few sets peace moments aside. You know, I mean, I'm going to
• 2:15:12
  take a punt, James, and say that nobody on our panel where is
• 2:15:16
  going to say anything like that in this episode, Paul Chrissa
• 2:15:19
  says, my favorite of the season then and now.
• 2:15:21
  This was proper Doctor Who with its creepy clowns and properly
• 2:15:24
  scary moments, and it all looked gorgeous.
• 2:15:27
  It even had a passionate kiss. It was so grown up again.
• 2:15:32
  Paula says creepy and weird and completely brilliant.
• 2:15:35
  It has a great guest cast and an atmospheric score from Marques.
• 2:15:39
  I'm so glad this wasn't the victim of industrial action and
• 2:15:42
  some quick thinking got this finished.
• 2:15:44
  Tim Carter says the part where Ace is trapped in Bellboy's
• 2:15:47
  workshop and the robots come alive is terrifying.
• 2:15:50
  And Bellboy is hot, hot, hot. Gareth Boley says more overtly
• 2:15:56
  alien than the others, but again presents the familiar with the
• 2:15:59
  circus and characters. The Doctor more as a hunter for
• 2:16:02
  evil is starting to come through.
• 2:16:04
  Plus scary clowns. How had that not been done
• 2:16:07
  before? I mean, the Celestial toy maker
• 2:16:10
  has No, they're not scary. Oh, he just got a Hulks, doesn't
• 2:16:14
  he? You are a bad clown, says Dodo.
• 2:16:18
  I trusted you. Darren.
• 2:16:19
  Lit Roundels greatest show bored me on transition but I love it
• 2:16:23
  now. I'm a fan of why it's Doctor Who
• 2:16:25
  writing. I don't want the slow to be like
• 2:16:26
  this all the time, but it's full of character.
• 2:16:29
  Hooray for a proper director. Arriving in the McCoy area with
• 2:16:32
  Alan Waring. Love it.
• 2:16:34
  Jack Coyer says. Possibly my favorite Doctor Who
• 2:16:37
  story, depending on what day you ask me.
• 2:16:40
  Superbly stylish and colorful, directed by Alan Waring in
• 2:16:43
  tricky circumstances, the billowing circus tent provides
• 2:16:46
  atmosphere the studio can't. This is a great advertisement
• 2:16:50
  for the 7th Doctor, the showman who enjoys participating in the
• 2:16:54
  circus until it ends with a bang.
• 2:16:58
  Oh, we we all love that Glenn Fitzgerald proof that Doctor Who
• 2:17:02
  is the greatest show in the Galaxy.
• 2:17:04
  Keep. Someone called Cy Hart says
• 2:17:07
  brought the weirdness back to who so atmospheric and again the
• 2:17:11
  cast elevate this. This was the kind of who I
• 2:17:14
  wanted as a 13 year old, full of vivid strange characters, images
• 2:17:18
  and ideas. Mark S score compliments this in
• 2:17:21
  the way Jeff sometimes doesn't matter you.
• 2:17:24
  Think he means Jeff. Jeff McCulloch, Man, do you
• 2:17:32
  think that Cy Heart is a bit like sort of the the Homer from
• 2:17:36
  the Myth Makers novelization of Doctor Who fandom?
• 2:17:38
  You know, he just sort of quietly sneaks into these
• 2:17:41
  podcasts with comments and things, you know, but nobody's
• 2:17:43
  quite aware of his. That's why no one knows who he.
• 2:17:45
  Is no, He's a he. It's sort of a wise old man and
• 2:17:48
  chronicler. A sort of librarian maybe?
• 2:17:52
  Old man, he's just turned 50. Be kind, James, for God's sakes,
• 2:17:55
  Joe. John Hall says The Greatest Show
• 2:17:57
  reads more and more as a meta commentary on the state of
• 2:17:59
  Doctor Who at the time, a beleaguered crew desperately
• 2:18:02
  trying to placate and police an ever demanding, never satisfied
• 2:18:05
  audience. There is some of that there.
• 2:18:07
  I don't think it's all that, but there is some of that.
• 2:18:09
  Luke Sims, Jenkins says. Tremendous and imaginative, fun,
• 2:18:13
  creepy and scary, ending the season for a show that's firing
• 2:18:16
  on all cylinders again. John Iles a lot of comments.
• 2:18:20
  I did warn you I've never been scared of clowns so greatest
• 2:18:23
  show wasn't that bad. I recognized Adrian, Mole and
• 2:18:25
  Eric from Lovejoy that is. Enjoy the deadly bus conductor
• 2:18:30
  and the gods of Ragnarok. Don Bensalia says for a show
• 2:18:34
  supposedly on it's last legs, this is a great riposte.
• 2:18:38
  One of my all time favourites. It's packed full of surreal
• 2:18:41
  imagery, a witty script, creepy clowns and a fine cast bringing
• 2:18:45
  these wacky eccentrics to colourful life.
• 2:18:48
  The gods of Ragnarok. Say keep.
• 2:18:53
  And finally, we never thought we'd get there, Anthony Carroll
• 2:18:57
  says. I thought we hated it, but well
• 2:19:00
  made and good ideas. Not a fan of Adrian Mole and
• 2:19:04
  Phil the Gods next explained enough.
• 2:19:07
  Not explained enough? 7 out of 10.
• 2:19:11
  Well, enough pithy, brief comments.
• 2:19:14
  Let's have some people speaking at length about it.
• 2:19:18
  Brief. So, Joan, would you like to tell
• 2:19:22
  us what you think of the greatest show in the Galaxy?
• 2:19:25
  I would, because it's funny that Joe said it's looking forward.
• 2:19:29
  Because in most ways, I think this is one of the more
• 2:19:31
  traditional stories of the season.
• 2:19:34
  Perhaps the most traditional. The first part is them
• 2:19:37
  investigating an alien planet and spending the entire episode
• 2:19:41
  getting to the story. And it concludes with, I think,
• 2:19:45
  probably the limpest cliffhanger of the entire era.
• 2:19:49
  It is a shit cliffhanger. Terrible.
• 2:19:52
  Are we going in or not? And I'm like, surely we are,
• 2:19:56
  because otherwise it's a very short story.
• 2:20:00
  That said, I love this story and yet quite a few of my notes when
• 2:20:07
  I was rewatching at this time, we're not so positive, I think
• 2:20:11
  because I was looking at the mechanics of it.
• 2:20:15
  This is very much a vibes story and it's about imagery and feel.
• 2:20:22
  And part of that is the music, as you mentioned.
• 2:20:26
  But then there's other stuff like the shot of the hearse
• 2:20:28
  coming past and the window being lowered, which I'm sure we're
• 2:20:31
  we're all thinking of, which is perhaps one of the greatest
• 2:20:34
  images in all of Doctor Who. The creepy 50s family, the half
• 2:20:40
  buried robot in the sand, the shot at the end of the woman
• 2:20:44
  walking down the street with a horse and car as there's this
• 2:20:47
  apocalyptic tornado happening in the background.
• 2:20:50
  That's the kind of thing, if you're a kid watching it, that
• 2:20:52
  stuff sticks in your head, but that's what you remember from
• 2:20:56
  Doctor Who, and that makes you a fan, I think.
• 2:21:01
  That said, there are definitely flaws here.
• 2:21:05
  I've never really understood where the Captain goes to the
• 2:21:08
  circus. Maybe somebody else could
• 2:21:10
  illuminate me. Seems like he maybe wants to
• 2:21:13
  make a deal with the gods of Ragnarok, but it's never really
• 2:21:15
  made clear. I'm never quite sure why the
• 2:21:19
  Doctor doesn't seem to know or a surprise that Mags is a
• 2:21:22
  werewolf. It takes him a really long time
• 2:21:26
  to work that out. Elite.
• 2:21:27
  Unless he's faking it, I'm not sure.
• 2:21:30
  Yeah, I watch a lot of movies. And then there's Bellboy
• 2:21:35
  committing suicide by clown, and no one really seems to have a
• 2:21:39
  problem with it. They're kind of like, just leave
• 2:21:41
  him to it. That's what he's decided he
• 2:21:43
  wants to do, which is just an odd beat in in this kind of
• 2:21:48
  story, I think. So, yeah, there's some plot
• 2:21:50
  stuff that feels a bit sloppy, and I do think there's quite a
• 2:21:54
  bit of repetition in parts two and three, a lot of running
• 2:21:57
  around. So perhaps this is one of those
• 2:22:00
  stories where three parts would have been sufficient.
• 2:22:02
  That's always something I'm thinking about in this era.
• 2:22:06
  Which ones were best at 4? Which ones might have been
• 2:22:09
  better at three? Never quite settle on it.
• 2:22:14
  So while I do think there are bits of this that are a bit flat
• 2:22:18
  and perhaps even sedate, I do think the music is doing a huge
• 2:22:23
  amount of heavy lifting and I think that's a good thing
• 2:22:26
  because I think the straw the score is excellent.
• 2:22:33
  You can feel that it's Mark is first score for the story.
• 2:22:37
  I think he's putting everything into this score.
• 2:22:41
  I know we've done some fun things before this.
• 2:22:44
  You can just tell that this is a man who's got his dream job and
• 2:22:49
  he wants to impress. Being ultra critical.
• 2:22:54
  I think there are some moments where he almost overdoes it,
• 2:22:57
  where he does what I'd call Mickey Mousing, where he scores
• 2:23:02
  like every single gesture, every movement, every joke.
• 2:23:06
  But I can't really blame him for that because you're not going to
• 2:23:09
  under deliver when you get this kind of opportunity.
• 2:23:14
  So that is, I mean, the style of this, this story that actually
• 2:23:17
  that that's very, it's a circus set.
• 2:23:19
  Yes, absolutely. I think that's a fair, that's a
• 2:23:22
  fairpoint. It's just a personal taste thing
• 2:23:25
  for me watching it now in 2025, you're right that it is doing
• 2:23:30
  what the circus acts need. The production design, the
• 2:23:35
  model, effects, costumes, makeup are excellent in the
• 2:23:40
  circumstances which you know, it happens.
• 2:23:43
  It happened quite a bit in the history of Doctor Who.
• 2:23:46
  I think they've done an incredible job.
• 2:23:48
  I'm not sure they could have made it look better with the
• 2:23:50
  circum, with the circumstances being as they hoped.
• 2:23:57
  There's even stuff like the falling stones at the end, which
• 2:23:59
  there's so many ways that could look crap, but it really looks
• 2:24:03
  good. And I think that part of it is
• 2:24:08
  really to its benefit. It's not, it's not maybe the
• 2:24:13
  story I remembered it being when I first saw it.
• 2:24:15
  I saw it quite late among the classical, the classic stories
• 2:24:19
  that I saw. And because it was new, I was
• 2:24:23
  like, I can't believe I've never seen this before.
• 2:24:25
  This is remarkable. A little of that new toy shine
• 2:24:29
  has worn off it, but it's absolutely going through.
• 2:24:34
  I think it's it's kind of unlike anything we've seen before or
• 2:24:38
  since, despite its kind of traditional structure.
• 2:24:42
  It feels like a unique story in Doctor Who.
• 2:24:46
  So yeah, it's going through. You had me guessing for a for a
• 2:24:48
  bit there. Yeah, me too.
• 2:24:50
  Fraser, what do you think? I mean, I was a little bit
• 2:24:56
  undecided on this one to be honest.
• 2:25:00
  For me, this is the weakest one of the series quite comfortably.
• 2:25:05
  You know, I listened to what Joe said and I was like, you know, I
• 2:25:08
  disagree with all that, so I'm going to been it.
• 2:25:10
  But then I just wanted to listen to what you and said.
• 2:25:12
  I think actually it's got quite a bit more going on here.
• 2:25:15
  And I agree that the piercing is terrible for this.
• 2:25:18
  I think, you know, you know, we talk about, you know, not much
• 2:25:21
  happens in episodes two and three.
• 2:25:22
  Not much happens in episode 1 either.
• 2:25:25
  You know, there's a lot of kind of sitting around and not a
• 2:25:29
  great deal happening. We know you compare this with,
• 2:25:32
  you know, silver Nemesis, where, you know, aces wiping out
• 2:25:35
  Cybermen with gold coins left, right and centre and there's big
• 2:25:38
  bangs and flashes in remembrance in.
• 2:25:40
  Some of those, though, Fraser that Silver Nemesis does not
• 2:25:43
  have. It it it does, it has a lot more
• 2:25:46
  fun. You know, this is 1 where I you
• 2:25:49
  know, I can easily watch, you know, silver nemesis and enjoy
• 2:25:54
  the ride and and you know the time passes with with great
• 2:25:56
  assure. It's always a bit of a bit more
• 2:25:59
  of a struggle to be honest, because, you know, it does
• 2:26:02
  really bore us a little bit just with how how little things
• 2:26:07
  happen. You know, the characters feel a
• 2:26:10
  lot more character cheery than character, you know, especially
• 2:26:14
  Wiz kids. You know, James, you hit the
• 2:26:16
  nail on the head there. It's quite close to bone, as is
• 2:26:20
  our Wiz kid. You know things like Nord, Nord
• 2:26:25
  the chomp and say this, you know it's it's.
• 2:26:32
  Yeah. Yeah, and you know what's what's
• 2:26:34
  all that shite about the the wife with the sloppy fruit
• 2:26:37
  about, you know, it's just. Said no end to you weirdos.
• 2:26:42
  I mean, you compare that scene with the Mrs. Remington scene.
• 2:26:47
  Oh. Fuck off, you know?
• 2:26:50
  You know, and what 11's actually, you know, bringing
• 2:26:53
  something to the table and and giving you a bit more one is
• 2:26:56
  literally just, you know, would we just can't get them, have
• 2:26:59
  them get to the tent before the end of Part 1.
• 2:27:02
  But it sells the alienness of the world.
• 2:27:04
  When I was a kid I thought that food looked disgusting and I was
• 2:27:07
  like why? They really are on an alien.
• 2:27:09
  This is the I mean. To her credit, she eats it as
• 2:27:12
  well, right? Yeah, it looks disgusting.
• 2:27:14
  This is the only one of the sea season that does this that has
• 2:27:18
  the traditional Part 1. So in that context, I do like
• 2:27:22
  that as it's kind of refreshing just in this particular.
• 2:27:26
  Instance I will say it's the best Part 1.
• 2:27:30
  To come back a phrase with the character stuff, I agree, and I
• 2:27:34
  can't really contradict what you're saying, but I think this
• 2:27:38
  is the Doctor Who story that has the most lynching feel of any
• 2:27:42
  Doctor Who story. And as much as I like David
• 2:27:46
  Lynch's work, his characters aren't particularly deep.
• 2:27:49
  They are very strong flavours of what they are and they serve a
• 2:27:55
  function, but they're kind of memorable just in their
• 2:27:58
  strangeness. And that's you do have to go a
• 2:28:01
  little way to meet them in the middle.
• 2:28:04
  But if that is a criticism, I can't really, I can't really
• 2:28:07
  come back at it. The same time I'm I'm watching
• 2:28:10
  Doctor Who, not Twin Peaks. So but.
• 2:28:13
  You can't say the characters in Silver Nemesis have got depth
• 2:28:16
  for fuck's sake. They surely do, honey.
• 2:28:19
  They surely do. Who would win in a fight between
• 2:28:22
  Peggy Mount and Dolores? Graham, Peggy.
• 2:28:24
  Mount Jesus. Christ.
• 2:28:26
  Sorry, Fraser. So yeah, there is stuff I do
• 2:28:32
  like about it though, which is probably enough for us to put us
• 2:28:36
  through on the, on the grand scheme of things because, you
• 2:28:41
  know, this is, this is strictly and the format is I have to put
• 2:28:44
  something in the bin. So obviously I ignore that
• 2:28:46
  format because that's what I do. You know, Joe mentioned the, you
• 2:28:53
  know how it's all on location and it's, you know, the tent.
• 2:28:57
  It's all by accident. It's all by accident because
• 2:29:00
  they couldn't get into the studio.
• 2:29:04
  What's still going to be set in a tent there?
• 2:29:06
  The location filming had been done, yeah.
• 2:29:08
  Yeah, and then they were going to go into the studio, but they
• 2:29:11
  couldn't go into the studio so they had to build a big foot off
• 2:29:14
  tent in, you know, BBC car park. So .1 is triumph in the face of
• 2:29:19
  adversity because, you know, you always get points with me if you
• 2:29:23
  try Doctor Who, if you try to do something and you feel you get
• 2:29:28
  just as much points, if not more than, you know, trying and not
• 2:29:33
  trying and getting away with it. Yeah.
• 2:29:36
  Because, you know, things like the zombie, we all love the
• 2:29:38
  zombie. Because you know, there's
• 2:29:39
  absolutely no way at all anyone should have tried to dress a man
• 2:29:43
  up as an Ant and put him in the, you know, Line Grove or
• 2:29:47
  Riverside Studios, whatever. But they do it and it's fucking
• 2:29:49
  brilliant. So it's, it's, it's like the
• 2:29:52
  mind robber. You know, when they all of a
• 2:29:54
  sudden find they have a spare part for the mind robber because
• 2:29:58
  you know, the story before, which was wonderful and loses an
• 2:30:01
  episode. And they've got to put Part 1
• 2:30:03
  together and they've got no budget, nothing to do.
• 2:30:05
  And they've come up with Part 1 mind Robber, which, you know,
• 2:30:08
  knock spots of Part 1 of this one.
• 2:30:10
  I'll tell you now. Is anybody still listening to
• 2:30:13
  Fraser or just looking at your Owens cat?
• 2:30:15
  It's a welcome distraction. It's nonsense.
• 2:30:18
  Sorry Fraser, already joking. And then, you know, you're
• 2:30:21
  looking look at the flux as well.
• 2:30:22
  You know, we had a good chat about flux last week with the
• 2:30:25
  the difficulties of filming of the TV season, a pandemic.
• 2:30:28
  And this has got the same energy.
• 2:30:30
  You know, it's kind of like, yeah, we can't do in the studio
• 2:30:33
  because it's it's asbestos. You know we're looking down the
• 2:30:38
  bowel of another Sharda. You know another story that.
• 2:30:43
  Yeah, it would have been a. Cry it would have been, but you
• 2:30:45
  know, and it is possibly because of, you know, the fact it was
• 2:30:49
  going to be, you know, you can't set it in a tent that they get
• 2:30:53
  away with it, but they get away with it.
• 2:30:54
  You know, the build, the tent, you know, it's the charm of
• 2:30:58
  Doctor Who isn't it's versatility and it's just
• 2:31:01
  another example of the music and that to to the good effect.
• 2:31:06
  The second point I would like to celebrate is Ian Redington as
• 2:31:09
  the clown because you know, you talk about vibes, you talk
• 2:31:13
  about, you know, ambience, you talk about all that stuff.
• 2:31:17
  You know my word, he turns it up.
• 2:31:20
  He brings it in spades and bucket fulls and barrels and
• 2:31:23
  he's got to skip out the back that he's just hiding the
• 2:31:25
  ambience out with his shovel. He's he's just magnificent.
• 2:31:28
  Isn't he's just another level of absolutely creepy villain.
• 2:31:32
  You know, if, if there's kids out there that aren't scared of
• 2:31:34
  clowns, watch this kids and you will be because This is why
• 2:31:38
  clowns are are nasty and This is why clowns scare people.
• 2:31:40
  And it's, it's almost worth them losing his teeth like you did
• 2:31:47
  over this, you know, and it's, it's, it's such a shame that you
• 2:31:50
  know, you in years to come, he will be remembered as Tricky
• 2:31:53
  Dicky from EastEnders, when really, you know, this just
• 2:31:55
  shows exactly how wonderful he could be.
• 2:32:00
  And for .3, then it does obviously have to be the running
• 2:32:03
  theme of the evening, which is Sylvester McCoy.
• 2:32:06
  Joe, you hit the nail right on the head there.
• 2:32:07
  You got 100% right. He is an entertainer rather than
• 2:32:11
  a an actor. He's a performer rather than an
• 2:32:13
  actor. We've discussed that already.
• 2:32:15
  I don't think this is his best performance.
• 2:32:17
  I would say again, Silver Nemesis is above this one.
• 2:32:20
  But you know, he does get to do like you say, what he what he
• 2:32:25
  wants, what he does best. You know, a little little help
• 2:32:28
  from the great Soprendo. He's he's there doing his magic
• 2:32:31
  tricks and whatnot. You know, he gets that blend of
• 2:32:35
  light and dark again, but he's absolute outstanding, better
• 2:32:39
  than nothing else moment and probably one of his his crowning
• 2:32:44
  moments, probably his highlight. The best thing he does in the
• 2:32:46
  entire series is at the end when he walks out the tent and the
• 2:32:50
  tent blows up and they say it to him, right?
• 2:32:53
  Sylvester walk out the tent. There'll be a small explosion
• 2:32:56
  about 10 seconds after you walk out the tent and he walks out
• 2:32:59
  the tent. In about 3 seconds after he
• 2:33:01
  walks out the tent there's a big fuck off explosion and he.
• 2:33:04
  His ass is on fire, isn't it? But the bitch does not break his
• 2:33:08
  stride, he does not flinch, he does not react in the slightest
• 2:33:12
  way in other than, you know, this was the plan all along.
• 2:33:17
  Has the Doctor in the classic series ever look cooler than
• 2:33:20
  walking away from that explosion?
• 2:33:22
  Like, we get those iconic moments all the time, and you
• 2:33:25
  Who? Because they're easier to pull
• 2:33:26
  off. Because it's all done with
• 2:33:28
  computers nowadays. But he looks so cool.
• 2:33:31
  He looks. So cool, he looks so unfazed by
• 2:33:34
  it. He looks as if, like I say, that
• 2:33:36
  was the plan all along. But hey boys, he is the 7th
• 2:33:40
  Doctor. Maybe that was the plan all
• 2:33:42
  along. I mean, there is a tiny wince
• 2:33:44
  when that thing goes off and it's almost like he goes, yeah,
• 2:33:47
  I can't be bothered to be scared, but he just keeps going.
• 2:33:49
  He's so great. Keeps going with the umbrella.
• 2:33:53
  It's just, yeah, another day at the office.
• 2:33:55
  Now it's the matter. Dylan, do you mind if I if I
• 2:34:01
  leap in here? Please do, because I've heard of
• 2:34:06
  a couple of things that I actually disagree with the.
• 2:34:10
  Format. Johan said that he doesn't feel
• 2:34:13
  that these are deep characters. He talked about David Lynch.
• 2:34:16
  I couldn't disagree more. I was, I was thinking about
• 2:34:20
  this. I was thinking, is this story
• 2:34:22
  actually about anything? It looks like a story that's
• 2:34:24
  meant to be kind of heavy with metaphor and, you know, but
• 2:34:28
  unlike the Happiness Patrol, which I think really is about
• 2:34:30
  something, I'm not sure the greatest show in the Galaxy is
• 2:34:32
  necessarily trying to to say something profound or something
• 2:34:38
  subversive. And yet it, it really feels to
• 2:34:43
  me as though it is a story that is about something because I
• 2:34:46
  feel like these are real people who have been through a through
• 2:34:49
  a real thing. There's a really rich theme of
• 2:34:53
  what happened before, what the psychic circus was like before
• 2:34:57
  it went wrong. The fact that we we are
• 2:34:59
  introduced to Flower child, child and Bellboy as a romantic
• 2:35:04
  couple sharing a kiss, something that it was just sort of
• 2:35:06
  unthinkable that we would have seen that in Doctor Who 2 years
• 2:35:08
  earlier. And yet suddenly we've shown
• 2:35:10
  real people in a relationship in real jeopardy, and there's a
• 2:35:14
  great sadness running through this, which is that it used to
• 2:35:17
  be really good fun and something went wrong.
• 2:35:20
  It's a bit like Paradise Towers, but I think it's much, much more
• 2:35:23
  powerfully enacted here where we get a sense that these were
• 2:35:28
  friends and they were entertainers and, and, and yet
• 2:35:30
  somewhere along the line, something corrupted it.
• 2:35:33
  I don't know if it is about anything.
• 2:35:36
  I know there's a theory that it's about Doctor Who itself,
• 2:35:38
  which I love, but I'm not sure how deliberate that that whole
• 2:35:42
  allegory is. But I do feel like it has weight
• 2:35:46
  and depth because I feel like these characters are real.
• 2:35:48
  And so that comes that takes me to kind of Bellboy's death,
• 2:35:51
  which is it's it's a heartbreaking moment, but I
• 2:35:55
  think it makes total sense that this character is sort of giving
• 2:35:58
  up and and the people who used to be his friends are just
• 2:36:00
  letting him. That's what the whole thing is
• 2:36:01
  about. They used to look out for each
• 2:36:03
  other. They used to have this hippie
• 2:36:04
  kind of community and now one of them is committing suicide in
• 2:36:08
  front of the chief clown and he just, he treats it like a circus
• 2:36:13
  act. I, I think that's, I mean a
• 2:36:16
  chilling scene and the way that it's filmed, the way the camera
• 2:36:19
  just moves out and we don't even really see him being killed.
• 2:36:21
  It's just sort of in the background while we see that the
• 2:36:24
  clowns do their their kind of gesture and move on that that's
• 2:36:29
  where I think this story is has got a a richness to it and a
• 2:36:32
  depth that is is is streets ahead of where where Doctor Who
• 2:36:39
  has has come from. He says James Bellboy says
• 2:36:44
  you're a wonderful clown once, and then he smacks him in the
• 2:36:47
  face. He says shut up, it's powerful.
• 2:36:51
  I mean, I, I agree with all the all the, all the positives that
• 2:36:53
  have been flagged up. I think this place to all of
• 2:36:55
  Mccoy's strengths. I think that Marquez's score is
• 2:36:59
  is is great. I actually think he he will do
• 2:37:02
  even greater things in season 26, but it's a really effective
• 2:37:06
  score and really suits the story.
• 2:37:09
  The fact that they do a circus so well.
• 2:37:11
  Again, it's something that could have gone so horribly wrong, but
• 2:37:15
  it looks like a real circus. And the look of it, the design,
• 2:37:18
  the model shots, I mean, call me dense, but it just didn't occur
• 2:37:22
  to me until quite recently that they didn't erect a massive
• 2:37:25
  circus tent in the middle of Warmwell Quarry because it's
• 2:37:29
  such a good model. And it's only when I kind of saw
• 2:37:33
  photos of that model shot. Oh, yeah.
• 2:37:34
  No, that probably would have been prohibitively expensive.
• 2:37:37
  But it look, it looks like they have got a real circus tent out
• 2:37:40
  there. And then the, the interior
• 2:37:43
  matches that. And it's not just that they
• 2:37:46
  erected a tent to save it from asbestos.
• 2:37:49
  They have, they've really designed that well, The, the,
• 2:37:52
  the, the, the, the sand dust on the floor.
• 2:37:55
  It looks, I mean, one of the things that the behind the
• 2:37:59
  scenes footage reveals is just how tiny that set actually is
• 2:38:03
  much tinier than a real circus ring would be.
• 2:38:05
  And yet they're using it like a circus ring.
• 2:38:07
  They're filming it like they're, they're giving it the kind of
• 2:38:09
  scale that it, it needs. So I just think it's a
• 2:38:11
  beautifully realized story and and a one of its kind, a
• 2:38:17
  completely unique and and wonderfully unique expression of
• 2:38:23
  Cardinal's plans, which I agree it's the most 2000 AD we get and
• 2:38:28
  and is all the stronger for it. I think it's fantastic.
• 2:38:32
  It's definitely going through. You remember I said about their
• 2:38:34
  Cartmel agenda of revealing just how terrifying all children are.
• 2:38:40
  The right opinion? That shot, that sudden zoom in
• 2:38:44
  on the little girl with her green eyes?
• 2:38:47
  It's absolutely chilling. I mean, I'm going to go.
• 2:38:53
  I said three of these stories I was very nostalgic about, and
• 2:38:55
  this is the third one. The first Target book I ever
• 2:38:58
  owned was Greatest Show in the Galaxy.
• 2:39:00
  I'd previously read the junior Doctor Who and the giant robot
• 2:39:04
  from the library, so my mom obviously assumed that all
• 2:39:08
  Doctor Who books were written in that style.
• 2:39:11
  And I remember going into WH Smith's and seeing Mccoy's face
• 2:39:14
  there, who I'd not long seen on television.
• 2:39:16
  It was like, I want that. And then she had to read it to
• 2:39:19
  me because I could not read it because it was impenetrable for
• 2:39:23
  or a young 7 year old. So, but I've still got that
• 2:39:27
  book. It is crease to buggery.
• 2:39:29
  I've read it multiple times and it's just like it's it's a
• 2:39:32
  building block in my early fandom.
• 2:39:35
  And I think that cover is beautiful, but I can't put it
• 2:39:37
  through just on that basis. Kind of feel good.
• 2:39:40
  I mean, well, I'm going to put it through, but I don't have too
• 2:39:44
  much more to add. Everybody's oh, there it is.
• 2:39:46
  There it is. Beautiful, everybody said.
• 2:39:50
  Podcast in this, by the way. You're missing Mccoy's toothy
• 2:39:55
  grin. I'll just go back the stroke and
• 2:39:57
  the dial. Everybody said most of these
• 2:40:00
  things, you know, Ian Redington, Mark, as you know, God bless
• 2:40:05
  asbestos for making it what it was.
• 2:40:08
  You know, we don't, we don't doesn't get a lot of good press
• 2:40:10
  these days, asbestos. But, you know, it really did
• 2:40:14
  make J&T do as best as he can. Sorry.
• 2:40:20
  Anyway, the only other two things I I really want to
• 2:40:23
  mention is the Fontail use of putting the, the, you know,
• 2:40:26
  making the alien landscape like that, that sort of half, half
• 2:40:30
  planet you see is beautiful. The billowing white tunnels
• 2:40:34
  within the tent, which could look so shit, but the lighting's
• 2:40:38
  right. The way they move is right.
• 2:40:40
  And I do agree, I think all these characters have got, they
• 2:40:44
  haven't got depth, but they've got unanswered questions of a
• 2:40:47
  past and of a better life. And it's a reason why spin off
• 2:40:52
  media has dug into it from time to time.
• 2:40:54
  I. Think that is depth.
• 2:40:55
  Yeah, I, I take your point as well, James, that maybe we don't
• 2:41:00
  see them go on the journey, but we come to them at the end of
• 2:41:03
  their journey and we feel that journey that they've been on.
• 2:41:06
  It it leaves space to fill in the gaps, I guess I should.
• 2:41:08
  Say, but, but can I also add, I mean, what I what I also, I
• 2:41:11
  there was a point where I was going through these stories and
• 2:41:13
  thought I could make a case for each of them just by reading out
• 2:41:16
  the freaking cast list. Yeah, I mean, absolute legends
• 2:41:19
  here. TP McKellar, Jessica Martin,
• 2:41:21
  just at the start of her career, Rico Ross, Ian Redington, Peggy
• 2:41:24
  Mount. I mean, but it's a cast to die
• 2:41:27
  for. Who's more?
• 2:41:28
  Garner, James. She's wonderful.
• 2:41:30
  She is great, isn't she? So that's Deborah Manship and
• 2:41:34
  she. Says to Wiz kid.
• 2:41:35
  Of course. Go on in inside and get fucking
• 2:41:38
  killed, you know? She's funny and Christopher, I
• 2:41:40
  think Christopher Guard is, I think Chris Jewellery is really
• 2:41:42
  good as Deb. So.
• 2:41:44
  So I think that also gives these characters depth because they're
• 2:41:47
  being played properly by actors who know how to fill in those
• 2:41:50
  gaps in the performance. And you just get the the feeling
• 2:41:53
  that everybody's trying really hard to make this as good as it
• 2:41:57
  could be. And when you see people
• 2:41:58
  interviewed who worked on this, they talk of they talk about it
• 2:42:02
  like all those boring cunts in the Pertway era talk about the
• 2:42:06
  demons. You know, it's like this is the
• 2:42:08
  demons of the McCoy era. Everybody loved that, had the
• 2:42:12
  best time. And I honestly don't know why
• 2:42:15
  Ian Redington isn't talked about as one of the best Doctor Who
• 2:42:17
  villains because clans aren't creepy, but he is.
• 2:42:21
  They made a bloody pop video, have you seen it?
• 2:42:24
  Oh God, there's less said about that the better.
• 2:42:26
  But they loved it so much. Oh yes, on the DVD.
• 2:42:29
  Check it out. I don't take a look around
• 2:42:47
  there. Is.
• 2:42:48
  No escaping us. We are the psychic circus.
• 2:42:51
  You know what you're treating when you're past asleep?
• 2:42:57
  There's a cold attraction. Only a reaction to the power of
• 2:43:16
  the sun. The power of the sun.
• 2:43:21
  Called the Psychic Circus. Although do not check out the
• 2:43:25
  Big Finish audio called The Psychic Circus, it is written by
• 2:43:29
  Stephen White. He does go back and fill in all
• 2:43:31
  the gaps that were left ambiguous on the TV version, and
• 2:43:35
  rightfully so. Plus and one episode deviation
• 2:43:39
  to Paradise Towers because apparently he wrote that as well
• 2:43:43
  and it's just not Big Finish at its best.
• 2:43:46
  Just to say as well, we haven't really mentioned Steven Wyatt,
• 2:43:48
  but he does come up with two of the most eventive, inventive
• 2:43:51
  scripts of the era. Perhaps Paradise Towers isn't
• 2:43:55
  perfect in its execution, but I like.
• 2:43:58
  It's a shame we have to wait so long for Steven Wyatt to come
• 2:44:01
  back to Doctor Who nearer the end of his career when he's
• 2:44:03
  doing these big finishes that perhaps aren't as good.
• 2:44:05
  But shout out to the comics that you know, cutaway cutaway comics
• 2:44:11
  and what they're doing with his universe and adverse books, what
• 2:44:15
  they're doing with with his sort sort of universe.
• 2:44:17
  But I would have loved to have seen him do a new adventure or
• 2:44:20
  something like that just shortly after.
• 2:44:22
  But yeah, brilliant, brilliant writer.
• 2:44:24
  So it's going through. So it's it's 3 for three so far.
• 2:44:27
  Shall we see if we can keep this up with the Happiness Patrol,
• 2:44:30
  James? How did we leave this one till
• 2:44:32
  last with 25 minutes to our deadline?
• 2:44:36
  OK, Fraser. No, he's going to take 25
• 2:44:39
  minutes to get there. Well, yeah, I mean, this is,
• 2:44:44
  this is where the format of the show skewers me, isn't it?
• 2:44:48
  Because. You've done a four hour
• 2:44:50
  commentary on this. All right, they can.
• 2:44:51
  I would listen to that. Yes, yes.
• 2:44:53
  So, you know, I thought, you know, wish I hadn't fed my dogs
• 2:44:59
  now, because, you know, my vote doesn't count on this.
• 2:45:02
  And this is the best Doctor Who story that's ever been made.
• 2:45:07
  So was this your number one? This is my number one.
• 2:45:09
  Yeah, this is number one in my list of the 60 greatest Doctor
• 2:45:13
  Who stories. This came top, which makes it,
• 2:45:15
  you know, in the last 62 years, I've talked to who I've had.
• 2:45:18
  Now this is this is as good as it gets for me.
• 2:45:21
  And yeah, it's it's the greatest of all time.
• 2:45:24
  It's the GOAT. It's, you know, me and Joe did a
• 2:45:27
  podcast. We did a commentary on this.
• 2:45:29
  So the whole plan was just to kind of say, you know, go listen
• 2:45:32
  to that. You know, it's each episode's an
• 2:45:34
  hour and a half long. And you'll drop that in here.
• 2:45:38
  No, but I will absolutely, I will absolutely link to that
• 2:45:41
  because it was so eloquent. Go go read the blog, you know.
• 2:45:46
  He's mad, but he was eloquent. Obviously it was, it was a
• 2:45:50
  massive struggle to kind of get this down to fit the format.
• 2:45:54
  I was really tempted to do a riff on what I did with the
• 2:45:58
  Ambassadors of Death and, you know, turn the 55 reasons I
• 2:46:01
  wanted to put that through into 155 the happiness Patrol, but I
• 2:46:05
  didn't and I did and I kept it down to three.
• 2:46:09
  So, you know, I'm kind of left really hoping that the three
• 2:46:13
  reasons that I have settled on and after much deliberation are
• 2:46:17
  enough to convince the other four guys on this podcast of the
• 2:46:22
  greatness of the how wonderful the happiness Patrol is and is
• 2:46:28
  enough to put it through. So we'll that through it because
• 2:46:30
  we are getting too close to the deadline.
• 2:46:32
  So the first reason that I want to put the Happiness Patrol
• 2:46:36
  through is for Part 1. And Part 1 sets the scene
• 2:46:40
  beautifully, and it launches straight in there with Kef
• 2:46:42
  Mcculloch's theme, which is, you know, my favorite theme.
• 2:46:45
  You know, I think second, it was brilliant work.
• 2:46:47
  But you know, Kef's theme's the only one that really gives me
• 2:46:49
  goosebumps. So, and that's a brilliant thing
• 2:46:52
  about it. You know, you then straight into
• 2:46:53
  the sets, the wonderful sets of this, you know, it gets such a a
• 2:46:58
  bastion because of the sets. But you know, and how they look
• 2:47:01
  cheap and they look, you know, indoors and stage.
• 2:47:03
  And that's the point, kids, because this is a society on its
• 2:47:06
  knees. It's run down, the streets are
• 2:47:09
  boarded up and you know, you've got these sort of like Soviet
• 2:47:14
  figures faces on the boarded up and the new ones, you know, it
• 2:47:18
  brings a very Eastern European at the time, very USSR feel to
• 2:47:24
  this this story. You know, you get Dominic
• 2:47:27
  Glynn's music starting to kick in, that sort of just really
• 2:47:34
  sort of noir theme that he's got throughout it.
• 2:47:38
  You know, we've talked about Mark has been brilliant on on
• 2:47:41
  great show in the Galaxy, but you know, this is streets above.
• 2:47:44
  It's just so fantastic. It so fits the mood and it does
• 2:47:47
  that wonderful thing like James said before about being
• 2:47:50
  incidental music that is incidental and you only really
• 2:47:52
  notice it when you really have to.
• 2:47:55
  You get Chris Cluff's jaunty angles.
• 2:47:59
  You know, the first few scenes are, you know, what you wanted
• 2:48:02
  to do was, you know, have main camera straight on.
• 2:48:06
  You know 1 camera tilted 30° one way or the other.
• 2:48:11
  Until obviously GNT spotted what he was doing and shouted down
• 2:48:14
  from the gallery to stop it. But you do get a.
• 2:48:16
  He should have fought his corner.
• 2:48:18
  He should have done. And then, you know, sat in the
• 2:48:20
  scene, we're just introduced to all these wonderful characters
• 2:48:23
  that we're going to get for the next three episodes.
• 2:48:25
  Straight up. Obviously, first of all, aside
• 2:48:27
  as P the jobsworth, the man who just loves what doing what he's
• 2:48:31
  doing and goes and reports to the boss, Heleny, who you know
• 2:48:36
  straight away what kind of start to get to know her, you know, or
• 2:48:41
  Mrs. Thatcher. But you know, it's just
• 2:48:44
  wonderful lines. You know, like I do the counting
• 2:48:46
  side SP you know, that type of person where she gets something
• 2:48:50
  wrong. But no, she I'm not wrong
• 2:48:52
  because I'm not does the counting.
• 2:48:54
  We all. Know that manager Fraser.
• 2:48:56
  Yeah, absolutely. Sadist P wants to go at the top,
• 2:48:59
  not the very top, because the top is here.
• 2:49:01
  And obviously her husband's Joseph C, he's the Dennis
• 2:49:04
  Thatcher said owner if she's here and he C, who's B, who's
• 2:49:08
  running around with the B Blank who?
• 2:49:13
  Fifi, Fifi. Fifi, B.
• 2:49:16
  Fifi, B. The rest of the characters come
• 2:49:21
  in, you've got Daisy K, the one who gets far too much happiness
• 2:49:26
  from her job in the Happiness Patrol Touch of the night as
• 2:49:30
  about her, you know, the the lackey, the one that's really
• 2:49:32
  just loves being horrible at the people there you get Priscilla
• 2:49:36
  P, the absolute fanatic, the one that just, you know.
• 2:49:39
  Wants to do so well. In the job, you get Trevor Sigma
• 2:49:43
  representing the ridiculousness of bureaucracy.
• 2:49:45
  Because we're not just, you know, pointing a finger at
• 2:49:48
  Thatcher's government, we're just, you know, we're having
• 2:49:50
  slide digs at the bureaucracy as well.
• 2:49:54
  Gilbert M and the Candyman pop up.
• 2:49:56
  You know the best gay power couple we've had since we're all
• 2:49:58
  going toba in the dominators. And the cyber leader and cyber.
• 2:50:04
  What time do you call this? You know, it's yeah, absolutely
• 2:50:08
  fantastic. I'll Sigma, you know,
• 2:50:10
  symbolising that happiness needs sadness to coexist.
• 2:50:13
  You can't have one without the other.
• 2:50:15
  You're welcome. Inside Out, Pixar and Susan Q.
• 2:50:19
  Kind of the opposite of Priscilla and Daisy.
• 2:50:21
  You know, the first in a long line of sapphic love interests
• 2:50:24
  for Ace introduced in there. You know, she's me friend, which
• 2:50:27
  is a bit more than that, probably.
• 2:50:28
  That's why she's a bit upset, if we're being honest.
• 2:50:31
  You get the little go karts. You know, everything's just set
• 2:50:34
  up and put into place, which leads nicely into the second
• 2:50:38
  reason I want to put this through, which is Part 2.
• 2:50:42
  You astound me. It's yeah, you know, Part 2 now
• 2:50:48
  we've got the scene sets, you know, everything gets into place
• 2:50:51
  and we'll start moving things and get people where one want to
• 2:50:54
  be. The Pike people pop up and 50
• 2:50:56
  pops down. And then again, we'll get in
• 2:51:01
  this episode, we'll get one of the best scenes, not just in
• 2:51:05
  this story, not just in this series, in the hall of Doctor
• 2:51:11
  Who, which is Sylvester McCoy in the snipers in the gallery
• 2:51:16
  where, you know, he takes them down.
• 2:51:18
  He pops up next to them and he takes them down with words and
• 2:51:21
  to stare. Nothing else.
• 2:51:23
  He talks to them and defeats them with his voice.
• 2:51:27
  You know if that's not the. They're singing.
• 2:51:33
  That comes later. He doesn't defeat them with
• 2:51:35
  singing. He's, you know, if you want to
• 2:51:37
  have a think about Doctor Who, what the character of Doctor Who
• 2:51:40
  should be, You know, it should be that person that uses
• 2:51:43
  intelligence and uses words to defeat the bad guy.
• 2:51:47
  Doesn't pick up a gun, you know, doesn't, you know, use any sort
• 2:51:51
  of violence or IKEA or anything. You know, the Doctor is the
• 2:51:56
  person who will take you down with six words.
• 2:52:00
  Oh, yeah, it's excellent. And you know, it's, it's
• 2:52:03
  electric, it's magnetic. It's brilliant scene which
• 2:52:07
  really highlights what Sylvester McCoy can do with the right
• 2:52:11
  material. And the episode cracks on.
• 2:52:14
  We end up with the cliffhanger which has got the forum ticket,
• 2:52:18
  dude and you've. Got to leave us something to
• 2:52:21
  talk about here, all right? Stop.
• 2:52:23
  And you think you know this. You know, they've got this dude,
• 2:52:26
  and the only men that you see now are in subservient roles.
• 2:52:30
  You know, you've got the snipers bitching that although the women
• 2:52:33
  get all that, you've got him selling the tickets.
• 2:52:35
  You've got, you know, Joseph C, subservient to Heleni, and
• 2:52:39
  Gilbert M, subservient at the Canyon Man.
• 2:52:40
  You know, is this a commentary? Is it satire?
• 2:52:43
  Something to think about another time.
• 2:52:45
  So that leads nicely on to the third reason why I want to put
• 2:52:49
  this through tonight, which is Part 3.
• 2:52:52
  This is where all the shit goes down as the workers rise up.
• 2:52:56
  Helena gets overthrown. She gets dumped for another man.
• 2:53:00
  You know, the gay allegory of Thatcher's Britain really comes
• 2:53:03
  to the fore here when she gets dumped forever.
• 2:53:05
  He goes off with another man. You know, we'll have that lovely
• 2:53:07
  scene where we'll find out who Gilbert M really is.
• 2:53:10
  You know, he's the man who killed half his planet
• 2:53:13
  accidentally. Accidentally.
• 2:53:16
  Maybe he's not. I don't get conversation for
• 2:53:18
  another time. The foot candy man gets flushed
• 2:53:21
  and we get some proper science in here when, you know, Sigma
• 2:53:27
  raises the harmonica to bring the crystals down and kill Fifi
• 2:53:30
  because it's, it's resonance, you know, it's it's resonant
• 2:53:33
  frequencies. It's not about the the volume of
• 2:53:36
  the noun. It's, it's getting the crystals
• 2:53:38
  to resonate with the right frequency.
• 2:53:39
  That's a proper bit of science in there for you as kids.
• 2:53:41
  And then we end up with another belt.
• 2:53:43
  I've ever seen you get Sylvester McCoy and she had a Hancock, you
• 2:53:47
  know, as she's trying to flee and he's talking to her about,
• 2:53:50
  you know, grief and, and, you know, you've done everything
• 2:53:53
  wrong. And Joe, we, we acted that out
• 2:53:54
  really, really badly because neither of us is Sylvester
• 2:53:57
  Mccraw. Is pretty good actually.
• 2:53:58
  You were terrible. You know, with the you were
• 2:54:02
  playing Sylvester. Mccraw, if you did, pipe that in
• 2:54:03
  and we'll let the listeners decide.
• 2:54:07
  And putting up. You can't get away, Helen A.
• 2:54:21
  There's a scheduled flight in an hour.
• 2:54:24
  You can't stop me, Doctor. Oh, I know I can't, but it's not
• 2:54:28
  me you're running away from. Who is it then?
• 2:54:32
  Yourself. That's why you'll never escape.
• 2:54:36
  They didn't understand me. Oh, they understood you only too
• 2:54:41
  well. That's why they resisted you.
• 2:54:44
  I only wanted the best for them. The best prisons, death squads,
• 2:54:50
  executions. They only came later.
• 2:54:53
  I told them to be happy, but they wouldn't listen.
• 2:54:56
  I gave them every chance. Oh, I know they laughed
• 2:55:00
  sometimes, but they still cried. They still wept.
• 2:55:05
  Don't you ever feel like weeping Helenae of.
• 2:55:08
  Course not, Doctor. It's unnecessary.
• 2:55:11
  And those that persisted had to be punished.
• 2:55:14
  Why? For the good of the majority?
• 2:55:17
  For the ones who wanted to be happy, who wanted to take the
• 2:55:20
  opportunities that I gave them. What?
• 2:55:22
  Were these opportunities? Who gave them a bag of sweets?
• 2:55:25
  A few tawdry party games? Bland, soulless music?
• 2:55:29
  Do these things be happy? Of course they don't, because
• 2:55:33
  they're cosmetic. Happiness is nothing unless it
• 2:55:36
  exists side by side with sadness.
• 2:55:39
  Two sides, one coin. You can keep your coin, Doctor,
• 2:55:45
  and your sadness. I'll go somewhere else.
• 2:55:48
  I'll find somewhere where there is no sadness.
• 2:55:51
  A place where people know how to enjoy themselves.
• 2:55:54
  I'm. Sure you will, Helen.
• 2:55:56
  A place where people are strong, where they hold back the tears.
• 2:56:00
  A place where people pull themselves together.
• 2:56:02
  Where? There is no compassion where
• 2:56:04
  there's. Control A.
• 2:56:05
  Place where there is no love. They always thought love was
• 2:56:11
  overrated. Fifi.
• 2:56:18
  Could we do so you, Professor? He's done.
• 2:56:23
  Quick, do your harmonica. But you know, it is just another
• 2:56:55
  absolutely so well scripted scene and so well acted out.
• 2:56:59
  And I know a lot of people want the story to end there, but you
• 2:57:02
  have this little coder where the you know, just seeing how
• 2:57:06
  everything's going on and I I like that.
• 2:57:09
  I like that little coder. And I think, you know, I'm the I
• 2:57:13
  love the works of Alan Garner, you know, thing, but it really
• 2:57:17
  frustrates us where his stories I was and finished on the last
• 2:57:20
  page, you know, as they and they just, you know, there's nothing
• 2:57:24
  after that. You know, it really frustrates
• 2:57:25
  us. I love just having a little
• 2:57:28
  little breather, you know, and it just gives you that a time
• 2:57:31
  for like. Perfect last shot though that
• 2:57:33
  pull back from. Her.
• 2:57:35
  Yeah, but again, you know, you then have, you know, the idea
• 2:57:38
  that yes, you know, this was all done in one night and he's done
• 2:57:42
  it. He's come in again.
• 2:57:44
  It's so modern, this, this idea. The doctor has went somewhere
• 2:57:47
  with a purpose and he has done that purpose and he's done it in
• 2:57:51
  in just one night. He has brought.
• 2:57:53
  He has toppled a colony, has toppled a world in just one
• 2:57:57
  night because he's that dangerous as a man, you know,
• 2:58:01
  and to have that little wrap up to say, well, this is what's
• 2:58:03
  happening now when people are going off and things are going
• 2:58:05
  to be better and happiness will prevail, is is such a good way
• 2:58:10
  to win. So it's shortly.
• 2:58:11
  It's a brilliant, brilliant story.
• 2:58:13
  It really works on every single one of its levels.
• 2:58:16
  And it has got so many levels. It's got so many layers to it's
• 2:58:19
  got so much going on. And I really love that this is
• 2:58:23
  went from really been the whipping boy of the the era to
• 2:58:31
  really starting to get such a good re evaluation.
• 2:58:35
  And people also really start to appreciate what it is because in
• 2:58:39
  the day it's so pertinent, it's as pertinent and savage today
• 2:58:44
  with the rise of Reform and the rise of Farage and all of that
• 2:58:48
  as it was back then. Everything you see happening
• 2:58:51
  now, all those links you can make to what Thatcher was doing
• 2:58:54
  with the gay population, now you can link to the trans
• 2:58:57
  population. Now.
• 2:58:58
  You know, this story is probably popular now because it's
• 2:59:01
  starting to hit the notes all again because of what's
• 2:59:05
  happening to our society. So.
• 2:59:07
  Garage would take one ahead of days Lives.
• 2:59:09
  Well, I wanted them all to be bigots.
• 2:59:12
  Yeah. So, yeah, ultimately I, I think
• 2:59:17
  there is no better Doctor Who story in ever be made than this.
• 2:59:20
  So I am putting it through with as much passion and as much
• 2:59:24
  fervor and as much a verve as I can possibly muster in the time.
• 2:59:28
  That is a lot to me. Thank you very.
• 2:59:29
  Fantastic. Well, shall we have listened to
• 2:59:32
  what the voices we can do for the Happiness Virtual?
• 2:59:37
  I have some very colourful characters I'm sure we can do
• 2:59:40
  well. Let's do Paul Dunn, let's be go.
• 2:59:42
  Obvious in the style of the candy man hated at the time.
• 2:59:47
  Possibly too young to get the satire.
• 2:59:50
  I love it now. Fabulous turn from Sheila
• 2:59:54
  Hancock. The final scene with Fifi is so
• 2:59:57
  well done. A shame they lost the nerve to
• 3:00:00
  do it film noir style. It would have brought the breast
• 3:00:03
  out in my eyes. Greatly benefits from the
• 3:00:06
  Blu-ray. Special edition I'm going to do
• 3:00:09
  Kieran Palace. Georgina Hale, The best
• 3:00:14
  classical story. Only Doctor Who can pull off
• 3:00:18
  this madness on television. The Candy Man, A pink TARDIS
• 3:00:22
  crap dog puppet in the cheapest production you can ask for
• 3:00:25
  underneath. A parody of Patches.
• 3:00:27
  Britain at the tail end of her time.
• 3:00:30
  I mean. Obvious through the lens of a
• 3:00:32
  pink noir 1984. A story after my own shot and
• 3:00:38
  put it through. That was glorious and that was a
• 3:00:42
  great comment as well. Karen.
• 3:00:43
  What? Andrew Tumble is going to have
• 3:00:44
  to be Helen a them. I really don't like the
• 3:00:50
  Happiness Patrol. Everything is laid on too
• 3:00:52
  thickly. The make up, the voices, the
• 3:00:55
  pink, the stupid ideas. The robot made of Sugar is scary
• 3:00:58
  when he looks like Bertie Buttitt.
• 3:01:00
  Yes, it's about Thatcher. It couldn't be more about
• 3:01:04
  sodding Thatcher. Melt it.
• 3:01:10
  Sorry. That was glorious.
• 3:01:14
  I'm going to do Herald of Creation.
• 3:01:18
  Herald of Creation is going to be Gilbert M.
• 3:01:24
  I haven't watched the Happiness Patrol since original broadcast
• 3:01:27
  so the cringe stays with me and I'm not sure I can get past
• 3:01:32
  that. I'm going to do John ours in the
• 3:01:35
  style of Fifi. OK, what's not my favorite?
• 3:01:39
  Sweet. So I love the Candyman.
• 3:01:42
  Oh, in the Happiness Patrol, Fifi Ruff was cute.
• 3:01:47
  The special edition is just as good.
• 3:01:50
  I'm not better due to delayed scenes added back in.
• 3:01:53
  Sorry, I'm not a dog. I mean I am but.
• 3:01:59
  I'm going to do Lucy McCall as a pipe person.
• 3:02:09
  Thank you. And the translation is, she
• 3:02:12
  said, ridiculous and sinister, with Sheila Hancock's powerhouse
• 3:02:15
  Helen A at the centre. I'm going to do Luke Sims
• 3:02:21
  Jenkins in the style. Of.
• 3:02:24
  Leslie Dunlop's character Susan Q OK, but she just sounds
• 3:02:29
  normal. So wonderful, fun.
• 3:02:31
  Oh my God, don't wait in areas feel like death.
• 3:02:34
  I can relate to that. Well, I'm going to do Daniel
• 3:02:39
  Knight as Earl Sigma. Happiness didn't prevail at my
• 3:02:49
  school. I can tell you I appreciate it
• 3:02:51
  more now. And my kids love the candy man.
• 3:02:56
  We're the better director. This might have been better
• 3:02:57
  appreciated. There are some terrible
• 3:02:59
  performances here cough Georgina Hill an awful cheap sets.
• 3:03:07
  You win, you win. Glenn Fitzgerald was going to be
• 3:03:12
  that grumpy man at the end of episode 2.
• 3:03:14
  Happiness Patrol has to be my favorite of the season.
• 3:03:18
  Bright, bold, and it dared to be different in my opinion.
• 3:03:21
  The Candy Man came in for some stick after being aired after
• 3:03:24
  Remembrance, but I love it. It was creepy, atmospheric, and
• 3:03:28
  crazy and surreal all at the same time.
• 3:03:31
  I've finished my list now, haven't I?
• 3:03:34
  I'm going to do John Bensale as the killjoy at the start, the
• 3:03:38
  sound message at its core in a worthy attempt at something
• 3:03:41
  different, but the execution leaves much to be desired.
• 3:03:45
  Sheila Hancock is great. Georgina Hale's woozy snarling
• 3:03:49
  not so much. Candyman is naff.
• 3:03:52
  Plus really choppy editing makes it hard to follow.
• 3:03:56
  Which means I've got to do Jason Thompson in the style of her
• 3:03:59
  executioner. Damn, I love this one.
• 3:04:03
  At 3 parts it's the perfect length.
• 3:04:05
  A decent bit of social satire, the bit I seldom see mentioned
• 3:04:09
  is how it shows those enforcing A tyrannical regime find
• 3:04:12
  themselves victims of it. But the doctor annoying Daisy K
• 3:04:15
  to the point of another patrol arrestor Happiness Patrol
• 3:04:22
  undercover. Have we done the forum doorman
• 3:04:25
  yet? I mean I tried to do him but.
• 3:04:27
  I'll give it another go. So Paul Cresser at the time it
• 3:04:32
  was an OMG. They've gone back to season 24
• 3:04:35
  mode and I can remember the conversations in the office to
• 3:04:37
  riding it. I kept quiet about being a fan.
• 3:04:40
  However, I have grown to love it over the years and the special
• 3:04:43
  edition has really helped. Let the story breathe.
• 3:04:46
  Let's. Circle back round to Georgina
• 3:04:48
  Hale, because she's. Worth.
• 3:04:50
  More. Exposure, Georgina Hale.
• 3:04:53
  Is this the first story written by the Legs Akimbo theatre
• 3:04:57
  troupe from the League of Gentlemen?
• 3:05:00
  It's definitely about issues with its singular focus and all
• 3:05:05
  in one night momentum. This typifies my view of McCoy
• 3:05:09
  stories best viewed in one feature length hit rather than
• 3:05:14
  episodes. John Hall says I seem to be one
• 3:05:18
  of the few fans who always liked their happiness control from the
• 3:05:21
  start. But perhaps since I'm American,
• 3:05:24
  I didn't have the visceral Bertie Bassett reaction to the
• 3:05:27
  Candyman British fans did. David Cheapo Back to Helena, a
• 3:05:33
  script full of sasser and cutting observations about
• 3:05:36
  Britain in the late 1980s. Ashamed of some of the
• 3:05:39
  production and pacing. Let it down a little, but it's
• 3:05:42
  still a great story and pushing the envelope of what Doctor Who
• 3:05:46
  was capable of. Paul Quinn is actually a
• 3:05:49
  character so large in real life that he could be in the
• 3:05:52
  Happiness Patrol. Can.
• 3:05:54
  Only do him as Paul Quinn, The All the It's All Gone woke faux
• 3:06:00
  Hardman culture warriors and the chronic masturbatory Not My
• 3:06:03
  Doctor mob who found they could eat wankers happily overshooty
• 3:06:07
  as they did over Jodie. But they're definitely
• 3:06:09
  relentlessly heterosexual because their mums told them so.
• 3:06:12
  Must have missed the Happiness Patrol, a relentless piece of
• 3:06:16
  political theatre. This is dark, satirical and very
• 3:06:19
  human. A denunciation of the mad goth
• 3:06:21
  thatch and her freak marketer lickspittles, the anger at the
• 3:06:24
  Tories, deindustrial economics and their homophobic policies,
• 3:06:29
  at the long shadow of the Lord Chancellor's old advice about
• 3:06:31
  the portrayal of gay men on stage, and at the complicity of
• 3:06:35
  a British public prepared to turn a blind eye if they got
• 3:06:38
  their sweeties burns through the screen.
• 3:06:42
  Essential stuff. He is a genius, isn't he?
• 3:06:45
  Like he's mad, but. I wasn't reading that lengthy
• 3:06:50
  sentence at 5:00 to midnight. I'd have done a better job
• 3:06:54
  earlier in the evening, but. Excuse me, it's 10:00 PM All
• 3:06:58
  right, that's right. John Arnold says the closest the
• 3:07:01
  show got to 2000 and 80s grotesquely witty science
• 3:07:05
  fiction allegories pushing Doctor Who into territory it
• 3:07:07
  wouldn't quite go back to until gridlock.
• 3:07:09
  Sheila Hancock's character assassination of Thatcher
• 3:07:12
  obviously anchors it, but it's gorgeously well cast throughout.
• 3:07:16
  Paul Arthur says a smart script and some great design come
• 3:07:19
  together to make Happiness Patrol a hit.
• 3:07:21
  Keep it. Oh God, where are we?
• 3:07:24
  Matley Newby? The Happiness Patrol doesn't
• 3:07:26
  doesn't look as wonderful, but I think that allows it to get away
• 3:07:29
  with more. Hidden under the obvious studio
• 3:07:31
  sets, the walk in pace go Kart, the women dressed as drag
• 3:07:34
  Queens, the weird puppet dog and Bertie Bassett is an incredibly
• 3:07:37
  subversive commentary on Thatcher's Britain and how
• 3:07:40
  society mistreats otherness. Tim Carter says no other show
• 3:07:45
  could tell this kind of story. Yes, it looks like a school play
• 3:07:47
  in places. I've just done a school play.
• 3:07:50
  Tim Carter. I'm not sure I agree with that,
• 3:07:53
  but Sheila Hancock is outstanding and the supporting
• 3:07:55
  characters are all perfect. The anonymous Sigh hearts has
• 3:07:59
  suffered by looking cheap, failing to give any sense that
• 3:08:01
  this was a real place. And the Candyman, the goodwill
• 3:08:05
  my classmates had to show after remembrance, was spaffed away by
• 3:08:09
  this. I'm spaffed.
• 3:08:10
  That doesn't sound like a Sigh heart kind of word.
• 3:08:13
  I I love it now after the special edition on the Blu-ray,
• 3:08:15
  but it took me a long time to see it's worth.
• 3:08:18
  Anthony Carroll says. Found this embarrassing and
• 3:08:20
  sadly my view not really changed.
• 3:08:22
  Awful. Candyman does Sweet.
• 3:08:26
  FA. Oh sorry.
• 3:08:28
  OK, sorry sweet far. No it's fine, I can do this as a
• 3:08:32
  Skinhead again because sweet FA are stuck to the ground.
• 3:08:36
  Sheila Hancock is great though. 5 out of 10.
• 3:08:39
  Kieran Evans says nice ideas, but the edits for the story do
• 3:08:42
  make it a bit choppy. James Belt says succeeds where
• 3:08:45
  sun makers failed. I agree James, not to blow my
• 3:08:50
  powder too too early. Blow my powder.
• 3:08:55
  We'll go with it. What?
• 3:08:56
  Can you do with it? OK, we're going with that.
• 3:08:57
  Painting a picture of a dystopian future while still
• 3:09:00
  engaging me as an 8 year old while Sun Makers was boring.
• 3:09:04
  Now enjoying the high camp and subtext that I missed as a kid
• 3:09:07
  just makes me each watch a sweet treat.
• 3:09:11
  I think maybe just one what? Makes each watch.
• 3:09:15
  Oh no, sorry I this is entirely me reading very late at night
• 3:09:18
  night now. Now enjoying the high camp and
• 3:09:22
  subtext that I missed as a kid. Just makes each watch a sweet
• 3:09:25
  treat. Perfect Chris Curtis, didn't
• 3:09:29
  like it as a kid but have learnt to like it.
• 3:09:31
  Like a 60 story. This is a twisted version of the
• 3:09:34
  world. Great to see a rebellion story.
• 3:09:36
  Never enough in who? Plus I like the candy man.
• 3:09:39
  Too much happiness is a bad thing.
• 3:09:41
  He makes that more than clear. Joe Llewellyn says I read, read,
• 3:09:48
  I read 2000 AD. It could be either, couldn't it?
• 3:09:52
  You've got to read the rest of the sentence, and I hadn't, but
• 3:09:55
  I have now and it says this. I read 2080 American reprints,
• 3:09:59
  mostly Judge Dredd back in the 80s, and I completely got what
• 3:10:02
  they were trying to do here. Very ambitious, biting satire.
• 3:10:05
  I think the somewhat recent reappraisal is correct.
• 3:10:08
  This is way better than the first impression.
• 3:10:10
  Of course my I love this one. Again the guest cast or top
• 3:10:13
  form. See it is like.
• 3:10:16
  Again the guest casts are on top four.
• 3:10:18
  And special mention though to Sheila Hancock who puts in an
• 3:10:20
  incredible performance. The Candy Man gave 10 year old
• 3:10:23
  me nightmares. Happiness will prevail.
• 3:10:27
  Darren Lit Roundel says Happiness Patrol has always been
• 3:10:30
  fun. The cast were all on the same
• 3:10:32
  page. That is true, actually.
• 3:10:34
  There's some questionable production choices, but it all
• 3:10:37
  works well for me. And although the CGI editions on
• 3:10:40
  Blu-ray didn't always work, I love the expanded edit, giving
• 3:10:45
  the story room to breathe. There's a great extra scene with
• 3:10:48
  the snipers where he puts the gun right in his face and he
• 3:10:52
  looks terrified, like the camera just stays on him while he's got
• 3:10:55
  the gun in his face. I I agree that I would love to
• 3:10:59
  have a version of that extended edition without the CGI
• 3:11:01
  editions. Maybe next next time around with
• 3:11:04
  the Blu rays. Next time.
• 3:11:06
  And finally, Michael Storm, the Silver Nemesis of all the
• 3:11:11
  Nightmare and Silver Nemesis unfairly provided for years
• 3:11:16
  because of certain uptight areas of fandom dominating the
• 3:11:19
  consensus. This is a little gem with
• 3:11:21
  fantastic imagery, A sparkling script, and great villains.
• 3:11:25
  The Candy Man is a great villain for kids in the best Who
• 3:11:28
  tradition, taking something recognizable and comforting and
• 3:11:31
  twist it into something similar. No sinister God, I was doing so
• 3:11:35
  well with that sentence. 5 year old me so wanted a Fifi cuddle
• 3:11:39
  toy. I don't think that's what they
• 3:11:41
  were going for, you know, Michael.
• 3:11:43
  Well, I think happiness more or less prevailed through those
• 3:11:46
  comments. Shall we take Ewan, Fraser and
• 3:11:50
  Dylan out of the waiting zone and see what they think?
• 3:11:54
  They've been very patient. Dylan, do you want to do you
• 3:11:57
  want to hurl some insults now? I don't want to.
• 3:12:00
  Hurl insults like. I think this is a fantastic
• 3:12:03
  script. I think the world it's set in is
• 3:12:07
  one of the best this Doctor Who visits, and I just think it's
• 3:12:13
  rich and full of ideas. But this production's atrocious.
• 3:12:18
  Like, I cannot put this through. I I genuinely it's one of the
• 3:12:22
  few Doctor Who stories that I don't think should have been
• 3:12:24
  broadcast. I think somebody should have
• 3:12:27
  looked at this script and gone. We need to go super stylized
• 3:12:31
  where you go jaunty Batman angles like Chris Croft was
• 3:12:34
  trying to do big over the top sets, things like that.
• 3:12:39
  Or you go right, we need to go somewhere like Port Merriam or
• 3:12:42
  we need to go to some brutalist council estate somewhere.
• 3:12:45
  But to try and do this in the studio and those fucking little
• 3:12:49
  cars. It's just it this is this is for
• 3:12:53
  me, one of the most embarrassing Doctor Who productions there is.
• 3:12:56
  Everybody's performances is too broad.
• 3:12:59
  I love Sylvester McCoy and Sophie Eldridge.
• 3:13:02
  I cringe when I watch them in this story.
• 3:13:04
  Like it's the one time I feel like Joe Ford.
• 3:13:07
  I just. I Yeah.
• 3:13:09
  Feel like, not feel. Everything, everything about the
• 3:13:14
  production of it just makes me scream out of it.
• 3:13:18
  Just I just, and again, I wonder, I've talked a lot about
• 3:13:23
  nostalgia about these other stories.
• 3:13:24
  This is the last one of this season I saw much later.
• 3:13:28
  And so I don't have any nostalgia for it.
• 3:13:31
  I never read the book. I've never seen it until the VHS
• 3:13:34
  came out in what, the late 90s? At which point I'm sort of don't
• 3:13:38
  want to be embarrassed by Doctor Who.
• 3:13:41
  I think I've been able to let leave that behind with most
• 3:13:44
  Doctor Who stories. But there is something about
• 3:13:46
  this that just doesn't I I cannot get past the production
• 3:13:49
  values. It's like it's shockingly bad
• 3:13:52
  and everybody involved should be ashamed.
• 3:13:55
  Like when they talk about why Doctor Who was cancelled, it's
• 3:13:58
  because of stuff like this. And I'm sure this was the one
• 3:14:01
  episode Michael Gray turned on of the season, because if he
• 3:14:03
  turned on anything else, he would have gone Commission more
• 3:14:06
  Silver Nemesis, Nemesis. But no, I cannot put this
• 3:14:10
  through. I do not like, I do not like
• 3:14:12
  this production. But I think it's a great script.
• 3:14:15
  It's funny, though, because this is the one I don't remember
• 3:14:18
  watching as much. You know, I remember sort of
• 3:14:20
  like the clowns in greatest show.
• 3:14:22
  I remember obviously the Cybermen a lot in in in Nemesis.
• 3:14:26
  All I remember of this is there was a Bertie Bassett and and the
• 3:14:29
  tallest got painted pink. That's that's all I can remember
• 3:14:33
  this, you know my. What happens?
• 3:14:35
  Is is basically come from, you know, you know, watching ever
• 3:14:39
  since, you know, I think obviously there is, you know,
• 3:14:42
  that element of, you know, it's in the studio and I say exactly
• 3:14:45
  what you're saying, you know, you know, go big or go home.
• 3:14:48
  And I think some of the sets are trying to do that.
• 3:14:50
  You know, the candy kitchen set is is one of those where you
• 3:14:53
  think that that that is pure Batman villain layer, isn't it?
• 3:14:58
  But. It looks like the wackaday say.
• 3:15:00
  With the buckets going up and down and that I think that's
• 3:15:03
  that's exactly what you're talking about there.
• 3:15:05
  But then the brutalist stuff I think really does.
• 3:15:07
  You can spot it in the. Those dark shadows and turning
• 3:15:11
  wheels in Timmy Mallet set Joe. Those Timmy Mallet sets were a
• 3:15:18
  bit more artistic, that's why. I, I came to this pretty late
• 3:15:23
  on, at an age when I was very prone to the Doctor Who cringe
• 3:15:27
  and taking Doctor Who seriously and not wanting to have an
• 3:15:30
  artifact that made me embarrassed that Doctor Who.
• 3:15:33
  So I totally understand what Lillian is saying and I don't
• 3:15:36
  think it works entirely. I, I don't think that it's hard
• 3:15:41
  to tell whether it's a failure of the design or, or the design
• 3:15:45
  budget or because when you see pictures, when you see
• 3:15:48
  photographs of the sets, I think they quite often look more
• 3:15:51
  impressive than they do in the production.
• 3:15:53
  And I, and I wonder whether they've they were unable to
• 3:15:57
  light them in a way that brought out the qualities or whether
• 3:16:00
  Chris Clough just wasn't up to it or whether it should have
• 3:16:02
  been all Dutch angles as, as it is at the start.
• 3:16:05
  I don't think that the, the direction and design are working
• 3:16:08
  together to sell the idea. And I do find that that some of
• 3:16:12
  the jokes cringe. Give me an A flat a no, a flat
• 3:16:15
  no, shut up. The laughing scene is is an
• 3:16:18
  awkward watch still. But but I love the Doctor Who is
• 3:16:24
  doing something so unashamedly theatrical.
• 3:16:29
  It's committing to a thing where it's not.
• 3:16:31
  It's not doing naturalistic television.
• 3:16:33
  It is absolutely doing a Brechtian production in a way
• 3:16:38
  that is entirely appropriate for a script that is so clearly
• 3:16:41
  about something important, something contemporary and and
• 3:16:47
  something which, as Fraser says, continues to be highly relevant.
• 3:16:52
  Now. I don't think that it's, I don't
• 3:16:55
  think it's anything as reductive as just a critique of Thatcher's
• 3:17:01
  government. I, I think it would have aged
• 3:17:03
  horribly if that's what it was. I think it's far more clever
• 3:17:07
  than that, I think. What was it Charlie Barnes said
• 3:17:10
  about fascism and cruelty? But I also think it's it's a
• 3:17:13
  critique of some things that I think are more obvious now than
• 3:17:16
  they were in the 1980's. The relationship between
• 3:17:21
  governments and human frailty, and the fact that it's that
• 3:17:28
  governments don't like to acknowledge human frailty.
• 3:17:33
  The fact that actually it's much easier to scapegoat and and the
• 3:17:38
  the idea that it's it's easier for government to use propaganda
• 3:17:41
  and actually to ignore problems and suggest that they don't
• 3:17:43
  exist at all. Like this is a a that writ large
• 3:17:47
  in a way that that I recognise in so many things now.
• 3:17:51
  So I think that although it's a compromised production in, in
• 3:18:01
  very many ways that are apparent when you watch it, I don't need
• 3:18:06
  a special edition with all, all the kind of added fancy bits
• 3:18:10
  broadening the sets and, and putting kind of neon in and
• 3:18:13
  stuff. Because I because actually I
• 3:18:15
  think that takes away from the fundamental theatricality of a
• 3:18:20
  production that is bold enough to say, no, this is Doctor Who
• 3:18:23
  that is actually doing stuff that's important.
• 3:18:27
  And yes, television should do that.
• 3:18:29
  Family television should do that.
• 3:18:30
  Doctor Who should be about stuff sometimes.
• 3:18:33
  And I do also think there's something about, although,
• 3:18:38
  although watching it, I will see problems with just like why, why
• 3:18:42
  didn't you kind of frame it slightly differently or light it
• 3:18:44
  slightly differently? It's still got an atmosphere
• 3:18:47
  about it. A lot of it has to do with
• 3:18:48
  Dominic Glynn and boy, oh boy, kind of has a harmonica ever
• 3:18:52
  kind of pierced to the marrow so much as in his score for this.
• 3:18:56
  I think this has got an emptiness, A loneliness to it.
• 3:19:00
  The fact that it all takes place at this in this perpetual night
• 3:19:03
  time that that kind of sends shivers down my spine in spite
• 3:19:09
  of its shortcomings. And and finally, just to once
• 3:19:13
  again just call out the cast. I mean, when you've got Sheila
• 3:19:15
  Hancock and Ronald Fraser and Georgina Hale and Harold
• 3:19:18
  Innocent and Leslie Dunlop like in the same frame as each other,
• 3:19:24
  John Normington's in, in a, in a small role, like, again, an
• 3:19:27
  embarrassment of riches. And again, they're, they're
• 3:19:30
  taking it seriously. They're playing it for real.
• 3:19:33
  So I'm keeping this in. You can have, you know,
• 3:19:41
  experimental piece of theatre as Doctor Who in 88, but what
• 3:19:46
  you're going to get for the result is the axe because people
• 3:19:49
  are going to look at it and go, this is shit, why are we wasting
• 3:19:53
  our money making this stuff, which is the kind of thing
• 3:19:55
  happened. This is wonderful theatre.
• 3:19:58
  It's terrible television. Like a lot of people will say
• 3:20:01
  it's trying to look artificial, but that to me just feels like
• 3:20:05
  an excuse for those that want to defend something that looks a
• 3:20:07
  bit shit. On the one hand, it's angry,
• 3:20:11
  it's thoughtful, it's charged, it's emotional, it's bleak, it's
• 3:20:15
  hopeful actually at the end and it's got some unforgettable
• 3:20:19
  Georgina Hale. I mean, what is she doing?
• 3:20:22
  The candy man is dead. Like honestly she's somewhere in
• 3:20:26
  the stratosphere and unforgettable set pieces as
• 3:20:28
  well. Dylan is right though, there are
• 3:20:31
  moments here that are barely transmittable TV.
• 3:20:34
  Like maybe TV literate viewers can see this is trying to be
• 3:20:38
  theatrical. But you do have to make
• 3:20:41
  concessions for the average TV viewer as well.
• 3:20:44
  I think in Doctor Who, and most of the time Doctor Who does,
• 3:20:48
  these were weekly entertainment shows.
• 3:20:50
  It made for the family. They were created as nostalgic
• 3:20:54
  minutiae for faux intellectuals to meta textualise years later,
• 3:20:57
  which is what happens with the Happiness Patrol.
• 3:21:00
  Oh dear. I'm so sorry.
• 3:21:02
  Remember, it's gained viewers with each episode.
• 3:21:05
  Yeah. Happiness Patrol lost a fifth of
• 3:21:06
  his audience between Episode 1 and Episode 2, and I think
• 3:21:10
  that's telling. It's like.
• 3:21:12
  It tells nothing. We have well established on this
• 3:21:14
  podcast that ratings is absolutely no guide to quality
• 3:21:18
  whatsoever. I still.
• 3:21:20
  I Silver Nemesis is the best of the season.
• 3:21:22
  That's why the axe came down. Those numbers were low.
• 3:21:25
  They weren't, they weren't pulling in the audience.
• 3:21:27
  It's like this looks like an end of peer drag show meets German
• 3:21:31
  expressionism, right? It's.
• 3:21:33
  Amazing. Which is a step too gaudy for
• 3:21:37
  most people. Not you, not Fraser, but most.
• 3:21:39
  People are intellectuals, apparently.
• 3:21:41
  Well, exactly it is. It's like the wackaday version
• 3:21:46
  of something that could have been avant-garde and he should
• 3:21:48
  have stuck to his guns and he should have done the Dutch
• 3:21:50
  angles and made this more stylistic.
• 3:21:53
  But as a result, you sort of move that camera back into
• 3:21:55
  position and you can see those empty sets, those shiny floors,
• 3:21:59
  that shitty go Kart, the cheap crappy costumes, those
• 3:22:03
  embarrassing guns. You can just see everything
• 3:22:06
  there on display and people are going to switch on and go oh
• 3:22:09
  what is this panto and then switch, switch off again.
• 3:22:12
  And it is a horrible truth, but it is a truth.
• 3:22:15
  I think other problems as well though, like the candy man is a
• 3:22:22
  great design but the least effective torturer of all time.
• 3:22:25
  He gets stuck to the floor for most of the story and chased
• 3:22:28
  around some pipes for the rest. He's a victim more than he's a
• 3:22:31
  killer in this bloody thing. The very bizarre way that
• 3:22:35
  everybody spills out their MO as soon as they meet the Doctor and
• 3:22:38
  Ace. Just like in the theatre.
• 3:22:40
  Yeah. Where they build worlds and
• 3:22:42
  characters out of words. We're watching fucking
• 3:22:45
  television. Yeah.
• 3:22:46
  It's got the word vision in it. Tell this story with fucking
• 3:22:50
  pictures. Yeah.
• 3:22:54
  I love a lot of this, though. It's the thing I like broad
• 3:22:57
  performances. I think a lot of it's funny.
• 3:22:59
  I think a lot of it's imaginative.
• 3:23:00
  I think. Sheila Hancock, She was one of
• 3:23:02
  the best performances we've ever seen in Doctor Who.
• 3:23:06
  I always thought Love was overrated.
• 3:23:10
  You know she's wonderfully good, and McCoy matches it when you
• 3:23:13
  put him up against a great actor like that.
• 3:23:16
  Fuck, he's great in that last scene.
• 3:23:19
  And then there's the laughter scene in the Forum.
• 3:23:21
  Easily the most embarrassing scene ever transmitted up to the
• 3:23:26
  Doctor Who banner. It's just none of it works.
• 3:23:29
  The staging is terrible, the performances are terrible.
• 3:23:32
  It's just cringe. Like, of course it works.
• 3:23:35
  It's just awful, Fraser. It's terrible television.
• 3:23:39
  It's the point is that this is how you beat the happiness
• 3:23:43
  patrol. You turn on the fake happiness.
• 3:23:46
  By actually like a load of goons, yeah.
• 3:23:49
  Exactly, that's the point, even though they are acting like
• 3:23:52
  goons, it's fake laughter. It is enough to defeat the
• 3:23:56
  Happiness Patrol. It really just highlights the
• 3:24:00
  the absurdity of this high concept that we've come into.
• 3:24:03
  You know, the fact that it's Priscilla P isn't it, that
• 3:24:07
  arrests Daisy K because she is sad because now she can't kill
• 3:24:10
  the doctor. It's turns all on it's head and
• 3:24:13
  I was. Happiness Patrol girls.
• 3:24:15
  And that's saying I have a fucking clue what's going on.
• 3:24:17
  You've got Georgina Hale's trying to give a performance and
• 3:24:20
  they're all just baffled by the whole thing.
• 3:24:22
  It's. Just it work, it works, it does
• 3:24:25
  what it needs to do, highlights just the you know the the shit
• 3:24:29
  the back of. Everything.
• 3:24:31
  I do think that the special edition version of this is an
• 3:24:35
  improvement, but I think the fact that that exists at all
• 3:24:38
  means that we're kind of acknowledging that the initial
• 3:24:41
  version of this was a bit of a dog.
• 3:24:43
  I acknowledge nothing, I acknowledge nothing and I will
• 3:24:46
  not have that. Doctor Who got cancelled in 1989
• 3:24:50
  because of three episodes that were shown in 19.
• 3:24:51
  I think the artifice of this, I think the Bertie Bassett monster
• 3:24:55
  and I think those costumes, absolutely.
• 3:24:59
  It is part of why the show got the axe and the numbers.
• 3:25:02
  But yeah, I think if, if, if the wrong, if the wrong person on
• 3:25:06
  the 6th floor saw this. Yeah.
• 3:25:08
  And they said, all right, let's go.
• 3:25:09
  Let's sit and watch what you're producing for Doctor Who.
• 3:25:11
  And they saw this. And the Bertie Bassett monster
• 3:25:15
  was something that was banded around a lot in the 90s is why
• 3:25:19
  Doctor was shit. I do quite like the The Candy
• 3:25:22
  Man and I think it's something you can do when the show is
• 3:25:24
  firing on all cylinders and is loved and you can be a little
• 3:25:28
  bit more creative. But broadcasting something like
• 3:25:30
  this is just go it is another nail in the coffin.
• 3:25:34
  Oh, Fraser's getting up. He's leaving.
• 3:25:35
  Is that enough? No.
• 3:25:37
  This is the story, though, where I said that it is somehow like
• 3:25:41
  the best and the worst of Doctor Who, and sometimes within the
• 3:25:44
  same scene, because that you're right, that sniper scene is
• 3:25:46
  incredible. The confrontation scene between
• 3:25:49
  Helen A and the Doctor is incredible.
• 3:25:52
  And then alongside that, you've got, you know, what Doom point?
• 3:25:55
  What doom point? What did you say?
• 3:25:59
  And then that little splodge of strawberry jam comes.
• 3:26:02
  It's just it's, it's a weird mix this.
• 3:26:06
  I want to be in it because I do think I think there's more,
• 3:26:10
  there's more to embarrass you than there is to impress you.
• 3:26:14
  There's a lot to impress you, but fact, there's a lot to
• 3:26:16
  embarrass you as well. Joan, you've got a deciding
• 3:26:19
  vote. This is far too much pressure
• 3:26:21
  for a new person on this show. I don't like it at all.
• 3:26:23
  That's why I wanted to go next. Just say a keeper and we'll move
• 3:26:27
  on. It's fine.
• 3:26:27
  I'm. Going to keep you here for
• 3:26:29
  another half an hour while I deliberate.
• 3:26:32
  No, I, I did watch this fearing that I would be taken away by
• 3:26:35
  the Happiness Patrol. Patrol, AKA Fraser Sigma,
• 3:26:39
  because this story as a whole has never done it for me.
• 3:26:45
  It's kind of like how my partner really likes Taylor Swift and I
• 3:26:51
  don't get it. When I listen to Taylor Swift,
• 3:26:54
  she's like the biggest artist in the world.
• 3:26:56
  And clearly a lot of other people do like it, but I just
• 3:27:00
  don't get it. And I'm all for a bit of
• 3:27:03
  subversive political satire and critical reappraisal, but at the
• 3:27:09
  very least I think there's confusion between various
• 3:27:12
  members of the production about what we're trying to achieve.
• 3:27:15
  I think there's a disconnect between the intent and what
• 3:27:18
  we're seeing on screen. Now I'm a Doctor Who fan so I
• 3:27:22
  have a high threshold for behind the scenes issues, but I think
• 3:27:26
  what makes it onto screen here is a compromised version of the
• 3:27:30
  story they're trying to tell. And I'm not just talking about
• 3:27:34
  the shiny studio floor or the sponged on paint in Hellena's
• 3:27:40
  office. Clearly there's editing issues,
• 3:27:44
  but it's not helped by the direction.
• 3:27:47
  I just think of the introduction of Candyman, which is in the mid
• 3:27:49
  shot where he just turns around. I just can't believe why are you
• 3:27:53
  introducing your your henchman, your creepy henchman in that
• 3:27:58
  way, just in a completely flat shot.
• 3:28:00
  There's obviously the stuff with the go Kart.
• 3:28:02
  He. Does pick up the phone though,
• 3:28:03
  Yeah. I wouldn't go candy, man.
• 3:28:06
  Yes, he's very polite with it. My.
• 3:28:08
  Question is, does the original introductions cut?
• 3:28:12
  OK, but I you know, that is that is part of it.
• 3:28:16
  There's the Doctor and Earl hiding under the table in Candy
• 3:28:20
  Man's lair, and that's a genuinely impressive set, but
• 3:28:24
  the scenes in there are not well directed and I think there's a
• 3:28:27
  lot of poor staging and shot choices throughout.
• 3:28:32
  I do also think there are structural issues with the
• 3:28:34
  script Joe mentioned, or maybe Dylan mentioned what Candyman
• 3:28:39
  does in the story, which is not all that much, but I think Ace
• 3:28:42
  doesn't really do all that much either.
• 3:28:44
  She spends 10 minutes voluntary, voluntarily incarcerated with
• 3:28:47
  the doctor at the start of the story, and then she wanders off
• 3:28:50
  and needs to be arrested again. And then we're dropped into the
• 3:28:53
  scene where Susie Q is spilling her guts and Ace is allowed to
• 3:28:57
  escape. And then the next time we see
• 3:28:59
  her in Part 2, she's been LED around by Happiness Patrol,
• 3:29:02
  clearly like an editing thing there.
• 3:29:04
  And then she's back in the waiting zone again.
• 3:29:06
  Then she runs around the pipes for a bit before being caught
• 3:29:09
  again at the end of Part 2. Now, charitably, you could say
• 3:29:13
  this is a biting bit of commentary about the lack of
• 3:29:15
  support prisoners receive upon release and the high rates of
• 3:29:18
  reoffending. Or perhaps it's just a standard
• 3:29:21
  bit of Doctor Who capture and release.
• 3:29:24
  I've always I hate that they kill the dog.
• 3:29:27
  I genuinely hate that they kill the dog.
• 3:29:29
  The least they could do is have Fifi kill a pipe person.
• 3:29:33
  Instead we're just told, oh it's this nasty predator, she doesn't
• 3:29:36
  do anything, so all we see is our protagonists try and bomb
• 3:29:41
  her to death and then crush her to death.
• 3:29:45
  That is just fucking weird. But then.
• 3:29:49
  But then there's the score, which is excellent.
• 3:29:53
  Often in this era of synth heavy scores it's about choosing the
• 3:29:58
  right kinds of sounds that don't sound too pony.
• 3:30:02
  But Dominic Lynn goes the extra mile and gets a real musician in
• 3:30:07
  and gets them to play beautifully and it sets the tone
• 3:30:12
  more than anything the director is doing.
• 3:30:15
  I think there's Sheila Hancock. There's the great costumes and
• 3:30:21
  makeups for the human characters.
• 3:30:23
  There's the as time goes by scene.
• 3:30:26
  There's glad you're happy, happy you're happy, you're glad, which
• 3:30:29
  is just a fabulous line and a motto.
• 3:30:32
  There's Trevor Sigma. I think this is one of Mccoy's
• 3:30:36
  best performances, and the Doctor, for once is an out and
• 3:30:41
  out revolutionary in the way people think.
• 3:30:44
  That's what the character is, but it's very really the case.
• 3:30:50
  The pipe people are shit Ewoks, and I think they're kind of
• 3:30:55
  irredeemably crap. But the story also gets stronger
• 3:30:59
  as it goes along, and I can see why that earns it the love,
• 3:31:04
  because it ends really, really strongly.
• 3:31:08
  Yes, the coda scene is not necessarily needed, but that's a
• 3:31:16
  hell of an ending if you just have the villain crying at the
• 3:31:18
  end. I think it probably is too much
• 3:31:20
  for the audience you're trying to serve.
• 3:31:23
  And it's beautifully played by Sheila Hancock, but it's almost
• 3:31:25
  too real, bizarrely, considering she's acting with a puppet.
• 3:31:32
  And I'm kind of torn between admiring the intent and being
• 3:31:36
  realistic about the poor state of the execution.
• 3:31:41
  But once again, it's not trying to be just another Doctor Who
• 3:31:45
  story. And I think what I'm going to do
• 3:31:51
  is put it through in the hope that I one day will see the
• 3:31:56
  story that Fraser and James see. I don't care so much if I ever
• 3:32:01
  like Taylor Swift, but I hope that one day I will really like
• 3:32:04
  the Happiness Patrol. So in that, in that sentence
• 3:32:07
  going through. Listen to our country stuff,
• 3:32:10
  it's much better than our pop stuff.
• 3:32:12
  That was a great round out there.
• 3:32:15
  So I had generally had no clue which way he was going to go all
• 3:32:18
  the way through that. Then you.
• 3:32:20
  You've kept us. You've got you guys honestly
• 3:32:22
  changed my mind. Well.
• 3:32:24
  That's the, that's what we're here for.
• 3:32:27
  So look, we've, we've got, we've got 4/4 in the final.
• 3:32:30
  I all made it. And it's time for us, those camp
• 3:32:34
  music. It's not a waste of time.
• 3:32:36
  This all is. I love it.
• 3:32:38
  That's why I love it. There's no one.
• 3:32:42
  Chance to hang out? Really.
• 3:32:44
  And praises at the final. I think he had some sort of
• 3:32:46
  fancy computer program running random choices, but my.
• 3:32:50
  Dylan had the wheel of fortune. My service topped up with
• 3:32:53
  pictures of PJ Galleries pecs. I had the same fancy thing as
• 3:32:58
  Dylan did, I just didn't share my wanky tab with everyone.
• 3:33:01
  OK, well what I'm going to do is I'm going to put the four
• 3:33:04
  options in the Dalek tin. Oh fantastic.
• 3:33:08
  We are and I'm pulling out the first one now and it is the
• 3:33:14
  greatest show in the Galaxy and it will play.
• 3:33:21
  Yeah. Of.
• 3:33:22
  Course. Fuck greatest show for?
• 3:33:26
  Me Remembrance. Remembrance for me.
• 3:33:32
  Remembrance for me. That saves me from having to.
• 3:33:37
  Come on, make a choice. I think it would have to be
• 3:33:40
  remembrance from. It was close, though.
• 3:33:43
  It was close. Yeah, I mean that, yes, very sad
• 3:33:48
  for for greatest show to to fall so early, but what comes out of
• 3:33:52
  the Dalek tin comes out, I guess.
• 3:33:53
  Farewell Mags is finals. Silent scream.
• 3:33:57
  OK, so next we're pitching Silver Nemesis.
• 3:34:02
  Yes. Against remembrance of the
• 3:34:07
  Daleks. Oh, come on.
• 3:34:11
  Remembrance of the Daleks, please.
• 3:34:15
  Remembrance back in the tin already.
• 3:34:18
  I'm going to remembrance, yeah. Oh, Fraser's not sure.
• 3:34:24
  Well, sure. My, my, my brain says
• 3:34:29
  remembrance, but my heart says shiny, shiny video.
• 3:34:34
  But I am going to go remembrance.
• 3:34:36
  I was, I was, I was. Maybe he's going to go with
• 3:34:38
  Silver Nemesis just to, you know, fuck things over a bit and
• 3:34:41
  just be, you know, controversial.
• 3:34:43
  But of course it's. Going to be Remembrance.
• 3:34:45
  Shiny shiny video or the Dalek team?
• 3:34:49
  That's. True.
• 3:34:50
  I don't know why I put them both back in it.
• 3:34:51
  Wouldn't. Be a surprise to anyone that the
• 3:34:56
  final, gloriously, is Remembrance of the Daleks versus
• 3:35:01
  the Happiness. You know what that means,
• 3:35:04
  Fraser? The Happiness Patrol does go
• 3:35:07
  through because there's all the runners up go through to the
• 3:35:09
  7th. 1 Fraser, Which one are you going for?
• 3:35:14
  The Happiness Patrol, Absolutely.
• 3:35:20
  Joe. Remembrance of the Daleks,
• 3:35:25
  Dylan. Remembrance of the Daleks.
• 3:35:29
  Dylan. Only one of these stories has a
• 3:35:33
  10 and that is Remembrance of the Daleks.
• 3:35:36
  Quite right. Yeah.
• 3:35:38
  It's it's got to be remembrance, hasn't it?
• 3:35:40
  No, it could really be Happiness Patrol.
• 3:35:43
  Put your mind to it, right? Now I'm looking at 4 votes to to
• 3:35:47
  1, so I it would have to be a very surprising thing to no
• 3:35:51
  remembrance is the winner I. Beg of you don't use the hand.
• 3:35:55
  Doctor, now you begin to fear. You're making a great mistake.
• 3:36:07
  Oh my God, be wise. I came again.
• 3:36:10
  Lord, it goes to old planet Scarrow.
• 3:36:13
  The garlic shall be come the Lord of die.
• 3:36:21
  Excellent Scarrow time zone. It expansion, library duty, no
• 3:36:31
  relief or the laps. It's the Gator.
• 3:36:35
  It's the ability reaction out of control.
• 3:36:40
  Duke fish cannot be tonic. Oh, planet Scaro about to
• 3:36:46
  vaporize. You have tricked me.
• 3:36:55
  No, Davros, you tricked yourself.
• 3:36:58
  Omega device written 8 impact -25.
• 3:37:04
  You think I would let you have control of the hand of Omega?
• 3:37:10
  Nothing can stop it now. I have pity for you by Davros.
• 3:37:18
  It hasn't been pleasant. Change your mind.
• 3:37:42
  You all welcome change. Your mind?
• 3:37:44
  I would point out that in the Matt Smith era episode, the
• 3:37:47
  runners up actually won the bloody thing of the whole era.
• 3:37:51
  Pandorica opens in The Big Bang, so there's still a chance.
• 3:37:55
  Yes. Will you be there for that one?
• 3:37:58
  Oh. Yes.
• 3:38:01
  Even if he's not invited. I will be there with my
• 3:38:04
  licorice, all sorts my makeup. Also licorice.
• 3:38:08
  All shorts are disgusting. I love licorice all sorts,
• 3:38:13
  especially the bit that looks like the candy man's tummy.
• 3:38:15
  Oh no, it's his, the one that is his head, the blue bobbly 1.
• 3:38:18
  Oh, the bobbly ones are quite good as well, yeah.
• 3:38:20
  Disgusting. They're like anti sweets.
• 3:38:24
  I remember like whenever you were giving them as a kid, it
• 3:38:26
  was like, this is not what I want from a sweet.
• 3:38:28
  No. Can you give me those clothes
• 3:38:30
  that you used to have? They were sort of boiled sweets.
• 3:38:33
  Yeah. Tasted like antiseptic, not
• 3:38:35
  herbal tablets. Oh, maybe that's what my mum was
• 3:38:38
  giving. Me ghost.
• 3:38:40
  Joe is a special feature or as maybe as a Patreon special we
• 3:38:43
  should do this be on licorice sweeties.
• 3:38:46
  Yeah, no, just sweeties. Your top 10 sweets.
• 3:38:50
  Well, look, it's this it is, it is getting late and I'm aware
• 3:38:52
  that there are dogs to be fed and beds to be slept in.
• 3:38:55
  So would you like to tell us where we can find you on the
• 3:38:59
  interweb, Ewan? I have nothing interesting to
• 3:39:02
  say on Blue Sky or Twitter ever. But I have a short animated film
• 3:39:07
  that I wrote and designed and scored that's on iPlayer right
• 3:39:11
  now called Spectre of the Bear. It's a conspiracy comedy about
• 3:39:15
  crisps. It stars Craig Robertson, Bill
• 3:39:18
  Nye and it's only 11 minutes long, which I think is its
• 3:39:22
  biggest selling point. So if you have 11 minutes spare,
• 3:39:25
  Spectre of the Beer is on iPlayer right now.
• 3:39:29
  Awesome, Dylan. Hang on, hang on.
• 3:39:32
  Yeah, get away with this. Longer than 11 minutes are many
• 3:39:38
  Gallifrey and War Master set OK, where there's some fucking
• 3:39:42
  amazing music slapped all over them.
• 3:39:44
  All right, check those out as well.
• 3:39:46
  Thank you and. I was going to say, anybody who
• 3:39:48
  can spare four to five hours to listen to one of these can spare
• 3:39:52
  11. Minutes to watch.
• 3:39:54
  Your film. If they're greatly offended by
• 3:39:57
  what I said about the civil enamour system, perhaps skip
• 3:39:59
  that, but fine otherwise. Dylan, do you have a podcast
• 3:40:03
  perchance? No, I don't do any podcasting.
• 3:40:06
  I do Too hot for TV. We look at all things, Doctor
• 3:40:10
  Who, Extended Universe, you all know where to find me.
• 3:40:14
  Everybody here has been on apart from James Lark, but we should
• 3:40:16
  rectify that in the future. Let's do that.
• 3:40:19
  Yes, please. Fraser, have you ever written
• 3:40:22
  any kind of blog of some sort? Yes, actually, if you go to
• 3:40:27
  www.wordpress it's not Sky's full of diamonds. wordpress.com,
• 3:40:31
  you will find a much more eloquent explanation as to why
• 3:40:37
  the Happiness Patrol is the greatest story all time.
• 3:40:40
  And other than that, while I'm not hanging around the corners
• 3:40:44
  of dystopian Britain and via my harmonica, you will find me on
• 3:40:49
  Twitter calling Nigel Farage names is at the Felix Razor, and
• 3:40:54
  you'll find me on Blue Sky with the same name as well.
• 3:40:57
  And also on any of that podcast that will let me come on and
• 3:41:01
  talk shit. Excellent and Joker, where can
• 3:41:04
  we find you? Like a Kef McCulloch score of
• 3:41:08
  all-encompassing horrible noise. Just perhaps there were a blood
• 3:41:13
  pen knife into a podcast capture.
• 3:41:15
  There's a lot of fucking noise there.
• 3:41:18
  I can be found. Oh wait, they're listening to
• 3:41:19
  that now. Why do I need to say that?
• 3:41:22
  I can be found on some of those myself and I also have my own
• 3:41:25
  podcast which is called Neurotic Literature and that is Short
• 3:41:30
  Stories, which will have a new series in September.
• 3:41:35
  Will you hurry up please? I'm waiting.
• 3:41:37
  Oh, I will. It just I got busy.
• 3:41:39
  But anyway, they had they're all lined up.
• 3:41:41
  They're ready to go nearly ish sort of.
• 3:41:43
  So yeah, September. September, definitely.
• 3:41:46
  I'm not buying your excuses. Moving house, career changes,
• 3:41:49
  that's not good enough. I want content.
• 3:41:53
  Thank you so much, gentlemen. We we did good, didn't we?
• 3:42:00
  Time will tell. Always does.
• 3:42:05
  We way to destiny. We surely do, honey.
• 3:42:11
  Which one of these? Lines.
• 3:42:12
  Shall I end this on all of them? Social workers.
• 3:42:18
  There it is. Happiness will prevail.
• 3:42:23
  Oh. Perfect.
• 3:42:25
  Thank you. Thank you.
• 3:42:26
  Thank you, everybody. That was wonderful.
• 3:42:28
  We haven't done. Keep listening.
• 3:42:30
  Oh shit, yeah, OK, yeah, when I know it's late.
• 3:42:33
  Are you willing? Let's.
• 3:42:35
  Do it, Yeah. OK.
• 3:42:41
  Give us. A count in. 1234.
• 3:42:53
  Yeah, not bad. Yeah.
• 3:43:31
  The. The.