Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Talks to Eddie & Jon Arnold about their choice of Cold Blood (2/2)

Transcript

Talks to Eddie & Jon Arnold about their choice of Cold Blood (2/2) · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

0:26
None. Hamster with a bump pen knife
0:36
are doing quicker. Hello.
0:38
And you're not welcome back to the hamster with a blood pen
0:40
knife because you're probably already turned off midway
0:44
through the last episode when I said Season 12 was Tom Baker's
0:47
worst season. And you're probably about to
0:48
turn off after me saying that again now.
0:50
So I've just got to reiterate that Season 12 is Tom Baker's
0:53
worst season. But welcome back anyway.
0:56
And for those of you who disagree, you can turn off right
0:59
away because you're probably going to disagree with
1:00
everything I'm going to say for the rest of the episodes and.
1:04
You also said that Heaven sent was a turd and the hungry earth
1:09
and cold blood was a classic. I mean, people think you're
1:12
crazy right now. And I should know it is.
1:15
And I'm sure I needn't introduce the other two people on this
1:17
call, because you've probably heard way too much of their
1:19
voice already and you're probably bored sick of them.
1:23
Bored. I mean, yeah, probably.
1:28
Well, I'm Joe. Hello.
1:31
And I'm here, Eddie's dad. Hello.
1:37
Hello hello help. Me help me.
1:41
No one's coming to help you. I know that's the worst thing.
1:44
It's just being stuck in a horror movie isn't?
1:47
It John literally just compared himself to the fella we've got
1:50
paused at the start of cold blood who's about to be dragged
1:53
into that big black hole as himself being dragged into this
1:58
miserable episode. That's that's putting disrespect
2:03
on the hungry because at least it's not as bad as you are.
2:07
What me? You're your father.
2:10
Who do you think? Yeah, why did I ask the
2:14
question? Well, look, do we have any
2:16
thoughts before we go into episode 2 or should we just go
2:19
into episode 2? Blood.
2:21
This story, I have to reiterate it every time.
2:24
It's the best Siler in store. Yes.
2:28
I've still yet to find out why, but I'm sure you're going to
2:31
tell us in this episode. They're in it quite a bit with
2:33
their stupid trumpet guns. I mean to to be fair at least at
2:38
least it doesn't drag on a whole 3 episodes without them
2:41
appearing like for more than a second.
2:45
We've just finished Toby hailing off, now he's just had a heart
2:47
attack. Oh well, to be fair, that is one
2:50
of my only criticisms of that story anyway.
2:53
I think you love the sort of wobbly heads that they have, you
2:55
know, when they walk. Yeah, that, that's why I'm very,
2:59
that's why I'm not as keen on this design as maybe the old
3:02
one, because they can't, they can't do the shaking and make
3:05
jumper. We just die by shaking their
3:07
heads at him. Fabulous.
3:11
Not sure. In first, it is better than the
3:14
worries of the deep design, which is possibly the worst of
3:17
any monster in all of whom. Oh, they look so happy.
3:21
They're all smiling. Yes, I'm happy.
3:23
Yeah, they're their headlights up when they speak.
3:27
The only thing I'm more concerned about is the Sea
3:29
Devils design from that because they're literally dressed like
3:31
samurais. That is the least of their
3:34
problems and that decide, but I'm not going into.
3:38
That what I also be bombarded if I said I didn't mind that story.
3:43
No, I mean. I.
3:47
You know, I mean, I already think you're crazy for not
3:49
liking Midnight. So what they're they're No, I
3:52
mean I. And for and for those who may
3:55
not have listened in since obviously season 2 Z since were
3:58
the sequel to Midnight and that is way better.
4:03
Oh boy, we go and watch this thing quick.
4:07
I'm I should probably be glad I haven't listened to your season
4:10
2 podcast. Please, please know that I am
4:14
joking when I say this. I do want to reiterate that.
4:17
Yeah, but prepare the gas chamber quick.
4:20
I've. Got an extra 1?
4:24
We tried that, it doesn't work. Oh, really?
4:27
Oh well. No, they haven't.
4:30
Well, if stand up base, but it's close enough.
4:33
Can we please say to anyone listening, we are joking, all
4:36
right. Before child services are
4:37
called, Yeah. Well, well, Frank.
4:40
Well, frankly, the joke. You can never tell if he's
4:41
joking or not, can you? No, but that's part of the fun,
4:44
isn't it, You know? But it that sounds like it's
4:47
basically coming out for Doctor Who group, I can't name what.
4:51
There aren't many Doctor Who groups called part of the fun,
4:54
though. But I mean there's.
4:57
Plenty of fans. We don't do fun.
4:59
There are there are plenty of Doctor Who groups with names
5:01
that have lines from the show. Yes, many.
5:06
There's one called Come along Pond, you know, podcast named
5:09
from the great Amy herself. Oh, no, actually, we're a little
5:14
group here and we have fun. Well.
5:17
I mean to be fit. What?
5:19
What am I talking about? I'm on the hamster with a blunt
5:21
pen knife. Which?
5:24
Yes, Which is named for one of the lines from one of the the
5:27
greatest Doctor stories of. All time.
5:29
Oh, sorry. It's not even the top two from
5:31
the season. I thought you were throwing a
5:34
compliment at how much fun it is to be on hamster, but actually
5:37
you were throwing an insult that it's a the name of a lion.
5:42
He does. Throw me the odd 1.
5:45
You know the old bone. Well, to be fair and the even
5:48
Andrews of Tara isn't top 2 of season 16.
5:51
Oh boy. But that that's his favorite Tom
5:54
Baker season. Wow, Yeah, I think that's a
5:57
goal. Yeah.
5:58
It's just loves every. I thought, I thought you were in
6:01
playing. I loved every Tom Baker season.
6:03
I was like, are you mad? No.
6:04
No 60. Year.
6:06
Oh, fabulous. Yeah.
6:08
Glorious. Well to be fair, I'll probably
6:09
get bombarded for the fact I have the Armageddon Factor as my
6:12
second favorite. Good.
6:14
If you didn't like season 16, I thought I'll agree that I'd send
6:17
rounds to your house. To be fair, to be fair that it,
6:20
that is why I did. I did suggest myself for season
6:24
16 at one point. What?
6:26
I think you're on the list for it, aren't you?
6:28
No, no, I think you said that one filled up by that.
6:31
Time. Oh, I think there's six people
6:33
or something. Everyone wants to talk about
6:34
Mary Tam they're obsessed with already.
6:37
And their outfits, yeah, and. The oh you behave yourself.
6:41
John Arnold There is a a minor on this call. 1-2 We are PG13
6:46
around here. Hey, I I haven't said anything
6:48
about Karen Gillan's outfit in this, so you know.
6:50
I'm just about to bring that into it.
6:53
I mean, at least Mary Tam never dressed for Rio.
6:55
Oh. They certainly never dressed her
6:58
up in a short bloody shirt skirt like they did in this, however
7:01
this. Is Andrew the Android guitar?
7:03
And look at that. That is fabulous.
7:06
I think that's why Fraser likes this story, really.
7:09
Not not for the sophisticated writing, the, you know, the
7:12
intelligent dialogue and the astonishing direction.
7:15
It's just Amy and that skirt. That's the only reason he likes
7:18
this. And I think the only reason she.
7:22
Has the good legs. And and if.
7:27
You don't tell your mother that, all right?
7:28
He never said that. He never said it.
7:32
If if you see a Facebook post about a divorce within a week,
7:35
you know who of course there. I like the thought of that.
7:38
You know, here on Hamster we start relationships and we end
7:42
them. Quite right?
7:45
Well, I can't help but notice, you know, we're going all around
7:48
the houses to not talk about this dismal story because.
7:51
To not watch this this. We don't want to watch it, but
7:56
we've got to watch it. Why are you saying that like
8:00
it's a bad thing? Well, count us in then, please.
8:03
Please. OK, OK.
8:06
Just because I'm bringing you in immediately, 1.51 go.
8:12
Oh my God, I was just about ready.
8:16
OK, now let's see. Oh yeah, waving across the hill.
8:19
I forgot about that. Yeah, David Dalits.
8:23
It's so obvious though, isn't it?
8:25
That just that that little. It's like trying to do Moffit
8:30
but not understanding how you do Moffit.
8:33
Well, I mean, to be fair, to be fair, you would say who would
8:36
want to do Moffat? Well, now, because at his best,
8:39
yeah, his best is probably the best, right?
8:42
We've ever had, but it was just rarely at his best.
8:45
Are you, are you praising Moffat?
8:46
I am absolutely praising Stephen Moffat.
8:48
I think at his best he's extraordinary.
8:51
I think you need to. I think he'll be getting a
8:53
reputation for that. Well, people can take it, but
8:56
the trouble is he was overworked, overloaded, and the
8:59
more he did, the worse it got. To be fair, to be fair, I have
9:04
heard about all that stuff like Sherlock and whatnot.
9:07
The 11th Hour Lady is a phenomenal script.
9:11
I can't believe you're praising Moffett.
9:13
Oh, do you? Want me to do some more?
9:16
When you when you went out and got that drink, did did someone
9:19
abduct you and replace you? Yes, I've been drunk.
9:22
So, Muffet, I am Steven Moffett. RIP the mask off.
9:27
No, it's what? It's even even even that even
9:32
that's not originally just copying Roger Delgado.
9:36
Oh yeah, see I'm I'm more like Chipinal now, and I time of
9:40
angels, Flesh of stone. Apart from that horrible last
9:42
thing Pandorica opens is a banger.
9:45
Go in the fireplace, silence the library, Forests of the dead.
9:48
I mean, I could go and listen is a great script extremist.
9:51
Is a wonderful script. No, I'm not.
9:53
Listening Hey How bent is a great script for me, but.
9:59
Of course he is. I mean, a lot of it I do is for
10:01
theatrical effects, you know. But but yeah, I mean, he's
10:04
written as many dogs, but he has written some classics.
10:08
And which lesson and Heaven sent both are not part of Oh.
10:12
And they're the doctor. There's another one.
10:14
They had doctors very, very good.
10:15
Yeah, unfortunately. Followed it up with time with
10:18
the doctor, now there's a dog. What?
10:21
What are you? Are you trying to are you trying
10:25
to say that you took that you totally weren't over the moon
10:28
when you saw Matt Smith naked in the TARDIS?
10:31
Oh, I was so skinny, I didn't know.
10:32
Oh, you don't want to look at that?
10:34
Good grief. Sex comedy and Doctor Who.
10:38
And Stephen Moffett, Doctor. Well, yeah, very indeed indeed.
10:42
Did you see those saluras coming through then that sort of
10:46
terrible yellow lighting and the awful sets?
10:49
I mean, it really could be Underworld, couldn't it?
10:53
Yeah, yeah, except The thing is this actually has good sets.
10:57
Hey, yeah, the more more convincing Cajun Doctor Who than
11:00
this underworld. Yes, CSO ones.
11:04
I'm, I'm sorry, but can you just put, can you just put that John
11:07
Arnold on me for a second? Because I don't think I won't
11:10
hear any more of him after saying that.
11:12
Can I suggest, you know, if you're trying to decontaminate
11:15
somebody, Yeah, that you don't wear a surgical mask and go out
11:19
with a massive scalpel. Oh, we're trying to calm him
11:21
down. Over.
11:22
Maybe Shemnell didn't. Protect the bloody surgical mask
11:25
off. Maybe Shemnell didn't protect
11:27
2020 in a way. He's wearing a he's wearing a
11:29
face mask. Ah.
11:30
Yes, say it is. At least he's obeying COVID
11:34
restrictions. Well, and they're all
11:36
underground, you know, They're all inside the silurons.
11:39
They're playing by the rules. And and all the others are
11:42
isolating in the chair. What are those weird lights on
11:45
the floor? Oh, this looks so cheap.
11:47
Come on Eddie, this does look cheap.
11:51
Look more expensive doors in Logopolis than those plastic
11:54
ones that are just shut. I'm not seeing it.
11:58
I'm not seeing what you're saying.
12:01
I mean, I think, I think we've been spoiled by some streaming
12:06
shows in the last five years that basically television is
12:09
out, cinema, cinema now, that if you try to put something like
12:13
this out now, it will be laughed out the schedules.
12:20
But then again, that happens to all TV, doesn't it?
12:23
I mean, it's something God even Russell said when he was
12:26
watching Rose back in 2010 when he was leaving.
12:29
It's a, you know, even five years on it's aged, but that's
12:33
not necessarily a bad thing. But I think even in the terms of
12:37
this season, this looks cheap and unconvincing.
12:42
Well, it's convincing me, so I'm not seeing it.
12:45
Well, think of like the Pandorica opens that that
12:47
brilliant pre title sequence where we go from location to
12:50
location to location. It just looks so expensive.
12:53
That's the sweep of it. What are you trying to be?
12:56
RT DS Budget manager here for RTD 2.
13:00
I'd probably do a better job if I'm honest.
13:02
I wouldn't waste all the money. Well, well, what did they spend
13:06
the money on? Where was.
13:07
CGI dogs and skeletons. Yeah.
13:11
I know we're going to spend all the money on turning Nicola
13:14
McLaughlin into the Star of Bethlehem.
13:16
That'll be a great use of money do.
13:20
I ever turn up 5 minutes and pay a full Sorry.
13:24
Yeah, I'm, yeah, I'm, I'm sorry, but I, I think she was
13:29
absolutely wasted in that episode.
13:30
Oh terrible. She's a great, great comedian as
13:34
well. And I'm I'm also more annoyed
13:37
the official account had put out more material of that episode to
13:40
the point where we'd only seen about 5 minutes in new content
13:43
of I've got some. Marketing material for it as
13:47
well. I superimposed her face over a
13:49
genuine picture of the Star of Bethlehem.
13:52
Oh yeah, I think I have seen that.
13:55
Michael Miller went yes, yes, I'm sure you think you're very.
13:57
Clever. And I was like, yeah, I do
13:59
actually. I'm I'm doing to imagine how
14:05
that season 2 strictly went down.
14:08
Oh, it's a great episode, Ed. Controversially, shall we to.
14:13
To be fair, I that's another season I'd also put myself down
14:16
for. Although you mad bastards losing
14:21
story in the engine, my God. It's so dull.
14:25
Good God to. To be fair, I found it really
14:28
really confusing and hard to watch it.
14:29
Back in a room for a whole episode, yes.
14:32
Compelling Saturday night TV. You're just driving my thoughts
14:35
on midnight there. Doctor Who is all about variety,
14:39
no? No, Yeah, well, I just say nice
14:41
things about it as well though, right?
14:43
You did. You were fair, so you're
14:45
ambivalent. Are you just trying to avoid
14:47
talking about this episode right now?
14:49
Well, OK, so we've established this enormous, beautiful
14:53
underground city, right? And then we spend 10 minutes in
14:55
decontamination with the Doctor and Amy, which are very boring
14:58
scenes. Well, we're not spending 10
15:00
minutes there right now. We're spending more time with
15:02
Silurians on ground. Yeah, chat, chat in a way to her
15:05
about what are they talking about upcoming war.
15:09
So. Oh, so she wants to drive for
15:10
war, doesn't she? She's like the the young
15:12
Silurian in Doctor Who and the Silurians, yes.
15:16
Again, it's it's the IT, it's this is what was done in 1970.
15:21
Obviously. Originality is staggering, isn't
15:24
it? And I mean, I mean, it's even
15:27
more original. Again, it's like RCG going with
15:30
a with a whole spin off based on Oh no, another reptile based
15:35
species causing a war. He's being, he's ripping off
15:38
someone who's ripping off other stories.
15:42
It's true. What else can you do with the
15:45
Sonorians? He'd like to fight that
15:47
argument, Eddie, but I can't, I'm afraid.
15:51
Oh, look. Oh, look at this, Mira.
15:53
Ciao wokes up and she just does the whole comedy routine if
15:56
we're like. Oh hello, where is the tension
16:00
here? I just don't understand what's
16:01
happening. Well, to be fair, we are missing
16:03
the key point of Murray Gold's music.
16:07
No, I'm sorry. Carrie Blyton's music was way
16:14
more interesting than Murray's. Sorry, can someone, can someone
16:17
overtake his host and meet Joe now?
16:20
So I think I've heard enough from him now.
16:21
Oh. Sorry I'm going to be quiet now
16:24
then. Please please take.
16:27
We need Malcolm Clarke's Malcolm Clarke's score for the Sea
16:30
Devils. We need some tributes to that,
16:32
that's what. That ear bleeding score?
16:35
Glorious. Imagine, you know, when the when
16:38
the fella came up to with the scalp on it.
16:39
When? Oh my God, that is immediately
16:47
10 times a better episode. Oh, his score.
16:50
It's it does like and. That's tense music.
16:57
Well, it's just like 4 beats I suppose.
16:59
The original side errors one was as well.
17:02
Oh look at this cheap set. I can't get over these sets.
17:05
Are you? Are you, are you still trying to
17:07
say that this is less convincing than the original, so that
17:11
you're in cave? Yeah.
17:12
And, and you can actually pinpoint exactly whose fault it
17:15
is that's cheap because before the season, I think it was the
17:19
one of the new executive producers actually went and
17:23
cancelled the Mills contract before realising it was.
17:27
Yeah, Beth. Beth Willis, I think it was she.
17:31
She went, we can get this cheaper when Martha went.
17:34
No, you can't. I think he was right.
17:37
So who's doing? This then so the budget went to
17:40
help because they they had to rehide the mill at a more
17:44
expensive rate. Well, that's, I mean, it's
17:46
impressive then what they do put on the screen is Series 5
17:49
because I think visually like it's a step up just knowing this
17:53
story. Yeah.
17:55
Well, and The Big Bang is if you look at his basic two or three
17:59
sets, I think, and you know, it's part looks like it's a
18:03
museum. Good director.
18:04
I mean, like, I don't think much of The Big Bang, but it's a
18:06
great piece of direction. Matt what you don't you don't
18:10
think much of Alex King, Alex Kingston shooting affairs in the
18:13
sky. I mean you'd with that sentence
18:16
you've just described to me everything that's wrong with the
18:18
Steven Moffett era. Well done.
18:20
An annoying time traveller's wife and eccentric quirks, yes.
18:27
Tawdry quirks. Tawdry quirks.
18:29
That's it. That's why I like.
18:30
Amy's Choice, The amount that they RIP at the 11th Doctor and
18:34
that, oh, it's hilarious. And are we now getting River
18:38
Song heat as well for something she's not even it and.
18:41
Oh, she's everywhere. She pollutes everything.
18:46
Bear in mind that finishes this Joe's herd Big thing.
18:49
Yes, yes, yes. They've done something recently
18:51
with. Her haven't they a.
18:53
Closet more often than Sophie Aldred, didn't they?
18:57
Hey. We got the Sophie all in hate as
18:59
well. My bingo cards for.
19:03
I did tell you I was going to have a proper shitter fest
19:06
tonight, didn't I? Yeah, to be fair, missing
19:10
anything to be fair, not to be fair.
19:12
I forgot about the ace hate, but now?
19:14
But now I remember it. I just now need to remember not
19:17
to trust Joe's hasting companions.
19:20
No, no, don't trust my tasteful stop, not just think companions.
19:24
Well, you think heaven sense bad so I can trust you taste it.
19:27
Oh. Wait, I've got one more thing to
19:28
mark on the bingo card. I'm going to do it.
19:32
Ambrose could only be worse. Yeah, and less convincing if she
19:37
was played by Carolyn Ford. There we go.
19:40
I've done the lot. Now, OK, OK, that's quite a nice
19:45
set. This forest, there's water,
19:48
there's dry ice. That's quite nice, but I think
19:51
we only spend about two minutes here.
19:55
And then you get and then you. Go guns, is it?
19:57
Isn't that where they did water and masks?
19:59
I don't know where. It's found outside, Is it?
20:04
I am seeing what you mean. Dark area.
20:07
I'd say so. Yeah, no.
20:12
Oh, it's a location. All right.
20:14
Well, fair enough. Then that's why it looks good.
20:16
We're no longer in the studios. And then we get to go into the
20:20
negotiation room. Yes.
20:23
Can we talk about the negotiation, please?
20:25
Because that is the one original thing he does in this story.
20:29
I know it's. Terrible.
20:31
No, it's not. It's a doctor tries to negotiate
20:33
with Silerian and the Silerian. But it literally brings together
20:37
2 representatives from both sides.
20:39
Yeah, and the Silerians never did that.
20:42
It's just. The doctor gave US1 Silerian
20:44
that was listening to the doctor.
20:47
Do you not remember that from every single 7th part of
20:51
Silurians? But the Doctor doesn't speak for
20:53
the Earth. I mean, I mean a representative
20:56
from Earth and a representative of the Silurians.
20:59
And they try. And do it on this one.
21:02
Fuck me, it's Pony. It's so badly done.
21:06
Like we cut away from the conversation to somebody sort of
21:10
doing a voice over so we don't even hear really what they're
21:13
talking about. And it's I'm convincing because
21:16
it's like no one's going to listen to those people and they
21:19
don't go to any conclusions at the end.
21:21
Can we stop talking here because we've got a Taser moment coming
21:24
up? Oh yes, that carefully seeded
21:27
Taser in episode 1. And there we go, she's been
21:31
tasered. Oh, I do like, what's the
21:35
actress's name? Kate Cat.
21:36
Catrin, Stewart. No, that's Jenny.
21:40
Eve McIntosh Eve McIntosh I do like her.
21:42
Look at her pain acting. Yeah, that's me and John
21:46
watching this story. I don't mind her.
21:50
I think that's a good thing. She is a fanatic and she does do
21:53
that well. I think on that, even if it's
21:56
incredibly controlled. I would, I would much rather,
22:00
you know, if Madame Vastra was evil like her, it would be much
22:04
more fun. And Jenny going, no, we can't
22:06
wipe out the humans. Come on, let's.
22:09
Go Why not? What do you not?
22:12
Do you not appreciate the line? I'm a little woman from the dawn
22:15
of time and this is my wife. Oh, Steven Moffett.
22:19
Good grief. I mean, there's there's.
22:22
Some fun things to be had with the pattern of the gang, The
22:24
Crimson Horror absolutely being one of them.
22:27
What? What about Stratford newspaper
22:29
at Clara's face? It's the best thing that ever
22:31
happened in the whole era. Hilarious the timing of that gag
22:36
is. Sublime.
22:37
Glorious. In a very dull episode, but it's
22:40
very funny. And I'm not sure if you're
22:42
saying that just because you dislike Clara as well, because I
22:45
don't know if you do that or not.
22:46
The best thing that ever happened to Clara?
22:48
Was Joe? I've got in.
22:51
Do you remember in the Witch's Familiar where Missy throws her
22:54
down the hole and goes, Oh, you're just like a Canary boy?
23:00
Or hangs her up so down while sharpening a steak or.
23:03
Oh, the Temple of Peace, with some badly matted special
23:09
effects. In them.
23:13
Sometimes they just say it looks very familiar.
23:17
How can you look threatening with that?
23:19
How? How?
23:21
Lightweight Do those guns look? I mean, to be fair, the Sea
23:24
Devils guns and the Sea Devils didn't look much better.
23:28
They also look like trumpets. But.
23:30
That was the safe 40s. We should have learned some
23:32
things by now. It's Doctor Who.
23:35
It's Doctor Who. Do you think they've learned
23:37
stuff other than cheap budget sets and reusing actors?
23:42
They've learned to make the masks less less memorable,
23:46
that's for sure. It's expressive, isn't it?
23:48
That's what they were going for, those guns.
23:51
I'm just expecting whenever it goes.
23:55
No, it goes. No, no.
23:58
No, no. Marigold's Music.
24:01
Oh God, yeah, I I do it. I If only I could dub, I'd do
24:06
that. I I.
24:08
Quite like the Siluri Moss with the black eyes.
24:11
They're quite nice. Yeah, they're quite a bit, but
24:14
what was the point of them? Well, it's the Nyman thing,
24:17
isn't it? I think we're supposed to think
24:19
that's what they look like until they unveil that all.
24:23
The their human eyes, yeah. I suppose, yeah, you get the
24:26
performance with the eyes, absolutely.
24:29
And that is their COV IT boss. Yeah, they're, they're, they're
24:32
putting the face masks so they don't catch diseases.
24:35
Did you not see the Did you not see the medic slowly in wearing
24:39
a face mask? Yes, but he was wearing a face
24:43
mask and they're wearing full mask.
24:45
Did you see Matt? Smith leaning up against the
24:48
wall there, looking a bit defeated by this script.
24:51
Oh God, how much longer he's going.
24:54
I've got to be in this episode. No, that's 30 minutes of this.
24:59
I think that's just you, Joe. But it is baffling, right?
25:04
Please, somebody explain this to me.
25:05
Yeah, it's that we're going to, we're going to the and how did.
25:07
She and how did she get into a random computer?
25:12
Yeah, a random computer in a box.
25:14
Nowadays he just does the the holograms, doesn't he?
25:18
If he wants people to talk, he just uses the holograms.
25:20
And well, no, that that's not he does, that's RTD that does that.
25:25
He just no Egypt. He just makes them.
25:28
Oh, there you go, There's the holograms.
25:30
Yeah, I mean, to be fair, that's sort of giving me Earth Shock
25:37
vibes. Oh, is it making you feel
25:40
better? If you're implying I like a
25:44
shock or then yeah. I hope you do aggro.
25:49
Be quiet, you're just making everything worse.
25:56
Oh, I'm not I'm not even sure on my opinions on side men stories
26:00
to go because, frankly, because frankly, the only one of those
26:03
like dislike, as I probably iterated on laugh and was
26:05
revenge, and I and I think I've heard that you've just done a
26:11
recording of revenge recently. So be glad I wasn't on that
26:16
because I because I would have just been dumping on it
26:18
probably. They could have used those
26:21
Silurian trumpets to do the music for revenge as well,
26:24
couldn't I? At least this has more
26:28
convincing caves. Than revenge.
26:32
The real caves of revenge. Yeah.
26:35
The real caves that apparently some of the actors almost died
26:37
in. Please will you Is there a more
26:45
gebbic character than Ambrose also?
26:49
Why is it? Why did?
26:50
Why did Chris Chimnall think this would be the kind of
26:52
computer used in 10 years? Well, you've got to sort of
26:57
guess. I've knew about what's going to
26:59
happen in the future. But to be.
27:01
Under imagination common. To be to be fit to be fit even
27:05
the sexiest computers that in like classic who look more
27:08
accurate to to modern computers compared to that.
27:12
Oh no, this is all we need. Hello, I am the old solar, the
27:17
wise one that thinks everybody should talk to each other.
27:20
Oh, it's. Marvin the Paranoid Android.
27:24
I think his name is Koh Shamus. Stephen Moore Oh, Koh Shamus on
27:32
the way. I'm an old man, I'm about to
27:34
retire are. You.
27:37
Are you dropping more? Are you dropping Chris Chibnall?
27:39
Hey. I mean, I'll do that as well,
27:42
yeah. I mean, I prefer his writing
27:45
overall, but he still has written some duds.
27:47
Battle of Ranskorov Kolos, you know.
27:49
Oh dear. God, oh boy, no we're not.
27:55
Putting good episodes here. Are we even not to watch this?
28:00
Yeah, so do you know who Gebec is, Eddie?
28:04
Doesn't. He's from my favorite story.
28:09
One that we're going to do in the future, in the John Perky
28:13
era. What from Monster of Paladin?
28:18
Yeah, he's the miner that beats up the Doctor at the end of
28:20
episode 3. You know when he's and he's
28:22
trying to blow up the mountain with his stupid space gun,
28:25
right? And the only reason he exists is
28:27
just make that plot 6 episodes long by getting in the way all
28:31
the time. Every time they start to achieve
28:34
something, Gebec's there to get in the way.
28:37
Now Ambrose is exactly the same in this story.
28:40
It would be a single episode if she wasn't there with her size
28:43
bloody 7 shoes getting in the way of everything.
28:46
I hate characters like that when their whole purpose is to
28:50
elongate the plot rather than be a character in their own riot.
28:54
Am I wrong? No, because it's one dimension.
28:58
It's it. You cannot just have someone who
29:00
opposes and opposes and opposes nobody.
29:03
Really you're you're saying these are the most one?
29:05
Dimensions you can. Are you saying these are the
29:08
most one-dimensional written characters you've ever seen?
29:11
I'd say the Ambrose and Mira Soya's character.
29:15
There is nothing but to them. What were you not watching flat
29:19
line? Were you not watching flat 9
29:20
them or one-dimensional? How about how about the God of
29:25
light inlets? He's 2.
29:29
He's 2 dimensional. He's 1 dimensional in places.
29:33
He's more 2 dimensional than 3 dimensional.
29:37
So what we've got here is generally no dimensional
29:42
characters discussing huge issues that we don't get to hear
29:47
for some reason, when the actual the dialogue might be quite
29:50
interesting to hear about. You know how they negotiate the
29:52
future of the planet Earth with two species merging and we don't
29:57
come to any, any kind of conclusion as to whether that's
30:00
feasible. So why are we doing this?
30:04
Why are we doing this? I don't.
30:06
I do like that they go, oh by the way, that fixed points.
30:09
It's bollocks, isn't it? It's a fucking driven.
30:12
To to be fair, check it when we need to at least it at least the
30:16
character isn't wrong that nobody on this would accept a
30:19
shared planet. It's like, do you see some
30:22
country, they can't even share it with their own people, so why
30:24
would they want to share the whole planet?
30:29
I believe I just, I mean, hello, have you looked at the window
30:32
lately? It would never be feasible in a
30:33
million years. There's no way.
30:35
That they could. Broker a peace with another
30:37
species where we would share the planet.
30:39
We can't even share the bloody country with people.
30:43
Not be funny. If you're going to send Pete
30:45
someone to go check you, do not send Amy Pond in, for God's
30:48
sake. No, bloody hell, she'd be like,
30:50
right, everyone must wear short skirts and be a sex worker, you
30:54
know, on your But the rule is that on your the eve of your
30:59
wedding, you can sleep with somebody else, you know, like.
31:02
Jesus, I haven't popped up with a cake from a cake the next day.
31:05
That's. Right.
31:09
To be fair, I to be fair, I don't think that was her
31:12
decision. I think that's more Steven
31:13
Moffat you're suggesting. But also as well, like I, I
31:17
don't think Amy has a lot of empathy.
31:19
She's quite a selfish character, whereas Rory has huge empathy.
31:23
He's a nurse. He.
31:25
Cares about people. But he hasn't.
31:27
He hasn't iterated. He's a nurse enough already.
31:29
But he would be perfect for that role.
31:34
I think that he makes her a better person.
31:36
It's the whole point that she knows it.
31:39
Yeah, well, yeah, I suppose she does jump off that roof, isn't
31:43
she? In the last one?
31:46
Not at all. That's how I see.
31:48
Character points. What what you what you want to
31:52
go in the other room and and ask the other half yo do you want to
31:56
jump off a building together? I'll see the world where the
32:00
world's going. Yeah, probably, if I'm honest.
32:03
And the fact that you're watching Cold Blood right now,
32:05
I. Know no, I'm having a great time
32:09
ripping this stress, don't you worry.
32:13
Look at him now look at this scientist.
32:15
He's like the cuddly uncle. Oh, yes.
32:17
Oh, I never meant to harm your child.
32:22
Oh yeah, and the unoriginal thing as well he gets.
32:24
He gets the unoriginal thing as well.
32:27
He gets killed by an evil Silerian that's taking a
32:29
leadership later on. Does that sound familiar to a
32:32
certain story from 1917? But why wasn't he given, you
32:37
know, these sort of cute eyes he's given right now to
32:39
everybody? Yeah, You know, that's sort of
32:42
like, you know, anime big goggly eyes he's given to everyone
32:45
saying I'm so friendly. You know, why wasn't he doing
32:48
that in the first episode? Well, he.
32:50
Shouldn't, because that that makes that role more interest.
32:53
He is being it's because he is being more friendly to Amy and
32:56
gassing. Oh, wait a minute.
32:58
He was just being sarcotic towards like, well that makes
33:01
perfect sense. Thank you, Eddie.
33:04
So would I. Oh, no.
33:05
Look, the kids survived. Oh, boy.
33:08
Oh, well, never mind. There's still how long.
33:13
He may still expire by the end. There's still 20 minutes to go.
33:18
I think we're all going to expire by the end of this.
33:21
Yeah, we'll spend any more time in these cheap caves.
33:24
Well, I mean, I mean frankly, FIFA, I think my father is more
33:28
expired than the rest of us. Yeah.
33:30
Oh, how old are you, John? 51. 51.
33:36
Yeah, he's. In it.
33:37
Oh my. God, you look marvellous. 51
33:39
Really. Moisturized.
33:42
I would have said fought what you on.
33:44
Hey, there you go. You can come over.
33:46
It's fine. Oh.
33:49
Well, I mean, to be fair, that just shows he looked that that
33:53
may show that he looks like he's in good condition, but it's
33:57
basically the exact opposite. He's long expired.
34:00
It's. I've got to be fair, I do quite
34:03
well for the wear and tear that 17 years of him has put on.
34:07
No, no, no, no. I think the fact that he gives
34:09
you such a hard time, that's what's keeping you young and
34:11
fresh, you know, on your toes. Eddie.
34:14
Don't stop, mate. All right.
34:16
Well, well, now you're convincing me just to do that,
34:19
Just to make him look old. Do you know, do you really want
34:22
to sketch him? You could put on 100 Earth and
34:24
Cold Blood every day for the next year.
34:26
Oh yeah. 165 times. Oh, yeah.
34:28
How about when when we've got another actor in critical
34:32
condition or passed away from this story?
34:34
I just put that on loop. Oh.
34:36
God. You.
34:37
You. Well, I mean, I think there's.
34:40
No, you're getting more booleys for the book club, I tell you.
34:43
This little sorry. And more Barry Letts as well.
34:48
I'm so. Eddie, you don't understand
34:50
this. This is the worst threat I could
34:51
possibly get at the book club. To be fair, I don't understand
34:55
anything about the book club. The only things I hear are him
34:58
are overhearing him from the other room.
35:01
Oh, you must hear some very small observations then.
35:05
Yeah, usually the most what you call my father smart.
35:09
Well, I like your dad. Yeah, otherwise he wouldn't be
35:13
here, would he? Backed up with Jr.
35:20
Yeah, frankly, you know, you have your arch enemy.
35:24
He's probably mine. Or your dad.
35:27
That's not bad, at least. You've got him in your sights
35:29
all the time. Always plotting my next move
35:33
you. Know, I'm trying to think what
35:36
the topic, you know those saloon heads that sort of go out in
35:38
three directions like that? Yeah, I'm trying to think what
35:41
they look like. It's a bit like a fork, isn't
35:43
it? Like a bad thought.
35:46
Here, here we come. Here's here's the death they.
35:49
Got the old stegosaurus type thing.
35:51
They go to the car dinosaur which?
35:54
This is so funny, right? So she's clearly she's let out
35:58
four Silurians and then another 4 Silurians, but they're clearly
36:02
the same 4 Silurians, but they've matted in against each.
36:07
Other. So we've got an army of nine, my
36:10
God. Ethan blasted by the Trumpet.
36:12
Terrible destiny as well. Oh my God, look, look how they
36:18
put a bit of that terrible cave. So outside the.
36:20
Temple of me to. Suggest it's going from one to
36:24
the other. Oh bless them.
36:27
Who directed this one on They need shooting is it is.
36:31
It Ashley Wayne. Ashley Wayne, get out of town to
36:35
yell. Oh.
36:37
Dear, Oh no, who's dead did I miss?
36:42
Something. Oh, a layer.
36:44
Oh no. No, wait.
36:47
Oh, that's not a layer, is it? It's the sister.
36:49
What's her name? A layer.
36:51
Restrak. No, no, Restrak Restrak's the
36:55
one that's in the red jacket that just summoned the Foresight
36:58
Lurians. I think it's time to, you know,
37:00
murder the elephant in the room. But Christian or space names,
37:03
man, Restrak are like, oh, I mean, they're just all terrible.
37:07
What? Space names.
37:08
These are Ruth names. Space names Co Sharmas.
37:12
You know, we could go on. Just come with the Terry Nation.
37:15
Put space in front of everything.
37:17
Just just like, keep someone, Tarrant.
37:20
Yeah, I quite like Petine though.
37:22
That's quite a cool name. Well, that was someone else's
37:25
script, wasn't it? So.
37:26
Oh. Was it to you, Nick?
37:27
Someone else's eye? There's there's.
37:29
Yeah, there was in the. Somewhere else in the episode,
37:32
he was in the writer's room and never got the right episode.
37:35
So it was that fellow who created Nibbler from Futurama.
37:39
That's who created the petite, Yeah.
37:41
But it's great. Oh look, look at this right.
37:45
She's got. Look.
37:47
Look how they're all matted perfectly symmetrically.
37:50
In. The room to make it look like an
37:52
army. And and now she looks at herself
37:56
because she's seeing, she's seeing herself dead.
38:00
I mean, because we can't forget that these the exact same
38:02
actress. Eddie, that would be my reaction
38:05
if I died. I'd be very upset about it.
38:08
Well, you well it well earlier in the episode you were
38:10
literally saying you you would happily jump off a building with
38:12
the state of the world right now.
38:14
Well, yes, yeah, yeah. Watching this episode.
38:17
They give. Me A.
38:19
Scar as well here, aren't they? It's the scar on the eye.
38:21
So it's evil. So it's going in with the
38:23
Spigament troops as well? What?
38:25
Is the Temple of peace, for I've never been, of course.
38:32
It's it's a temple, but peace I don't.
38:34
Know that's. Probably why I've never been.
38:36
I've never been quiet in my life.
38:40
It's far, yeah. It's a bit like that.
38:42
You've. Been in there?
38:45
It's like, frankly, I have. But a long time ago but.
38:48
Frankly, I don't know how you ever got into books, considering
38:51
I'd imagine every library you went into you got booted out of.
38:54
Me. Yeah, I've got a few telephone
38:56
numbers as well. I don't worry.
38:57
The library. And you know, and I'm the only
39:01
library you've probably been into is one that's on the
39:03
podcast. Yes, I hearts 1 the library of
39:07
impossible. Things.
39:09
Oh, because. Did you see the library you
39:10
didn't get? Booted What's?
39:11
What's the fella's name? Who's going out with Mira?
39:14
Ciao. Or will be What's his name?
39:17
That guy, he just did a countdown.
39:19
On his watch, you know it's a chip New episode of a countdown
39:22
that kicks in, don't you? Tony Mac Yeah, I think.
39:26
Tony Mac Well done. You've hit the cliches quick,
39:31
everyone down these terribly cheap corridors.
39:35
That because the because the Sonic overwhelms the.
39:39
What was that run towards him though?
39:43
This is ghastly. I mean, what's his Sonic?
39:45
Screwdriver going to do against those weapons.
39:47
Oh please try again. Chris Chibnall.
39:51
Well, to be fair, have you seen what?
39:53
Oh, there you go. To be fair, to be fair, Matt
39:56
Smith Sonic does a lot. Excuse me, is that euphemism,
40:01
Eddie? No.
40:02
Oh good. No, it's not.
40:04
I'm saying his Sonic is that it's like the same reason that
40:09
they would have cut off the Sonic in the visitation, because
40:12
it's just being used to do everything now.
40:14
It's a problem, isn't it? By the time you get to Accotim,
40:18
he's waving that thing around in every scene.
40:20
It shuts doors, open doors, you know, start scooters.
40:23
He does everything. It's a bit.
40:27
It make it makes sense that like starting up electronic stuff or
40:30
closing it off, but it's like with with these guns, it's like
40:36
how is it exploding them? Yeah, God knows.
40:41
Are they Sonic guns? Maybe.
40:44
I mean, they are trumpets, so they let out some, they let out
40:47
some sort of sound. Why is that old man opening his
40:49
shirt up in the background there?
40:50
What is going on? Because he needs to show off the
40:53
green stairs. Oh, God, 11 minutes, 40 seconds.
40:56
Chris, you did this in 42. All right, we don't need another
40:59
countdown. Oh yeah, it's not going.
41:02
To be in real time. Oh yeah, I hope you know I
41:04
really like 42 as well. Oh, I love 42, but you know,
41:09
Graham Harper directed that one. Oh yeah, and is it, is it worth
41:13
mentioning that I was considering it as my favorite
41:15
episode of series 3? Well, I can.
41:18
I can see the appeal. I mean, there's better episodes,
41:21
but I can see the appeal. And it kills off Cindy Beale as
41:24
well, which is great. And and for one also everyone
41:27
can I just say Blink is nowhere near the best episode of series
41:30
3. It's near 1, the worst.
41:32
I bet. I think All from 55 is one of
41:35
the best episodes of all time. So what?
41:36
Yes, out. Oh, come on.
41:40
He's right, Ed. It's great.
41:43
It's very. Get out, get out, both of you.
41:45
So fun. Both of you See those tools
41:48
behind you? Just walk out of them right now
41:50
and go, go next, go next. Where's more Eddie?
41:59
Come on. Frankly, if I hit, if I hit that
42:02
shouting, I think I'd just go up to the drags myself.
42:05
Eddie, we're getting. Here to do.
42:10
Oh no, you better watch out, all right, or I'll start screaming
42:12
out your name like that every time we talk.
42:15
Anyway, yeah, as I was saying, E2, get out those doors and go
42:19
behind them and never open them again because you're not worthy
42:21
of being on this talk. So hang on.
42:25
So negotiations are over now? Yeah.
42:27
OK. That's all done and dusted
42:29
because one person died, is that right?
42:31
Yes. Is that how?
42:33
Fragile these negotiations are because.
42:35
There's going to be people that die when you're talking about
42:38
integrating 2 entire species. When you're talking about Doctor
42:41
Who's whole it's it's basically never with exceptions, with a
42:49
very obvious there it's it's not a Doctor episode without someone
42:53
dying. You just don't approach topics
42:56
like this when the the solutions are this simple and idiotic.
43:03
It just feels like this is a first draft that hasn't had
43:06
anything else done on it. No, that's transcript call off.
43:10
Yeah, I, I, it feels, feels like that because it's got it's, you
43:15
can see what he's trying to do here and.
43:18
He's doing it and he's doing it and he's.
43:20
Doing it really well. There's no scaffolding to it.
43:26
I mean Matt Smith, and bless him, he's trying to sell it, but
43:29
no. But and do you think this?
43:32
Could be fair is where he learns the biggest asset.
43:35
Any dots going to have? How do you actually deal with a
43:39
terrible script? What would they don't do?
43:42
They, Russell and Moffett do not script edit chibal scripts.
43:45
They both said that they were a reliable pair of hands and that
43:49
they would just put it out. And this is what you get.
43:54
Yeah. It's like RCD never script
43:56
edited Moffett. But with that, I mean, that's
44:00
more understandable I would say than this.
44:03
Because they hang together better than this.
44:06
Well, to be fair, Blink doesn't hang together much better.
44:08
Blink's 10 times worse than this, but.
44:11
Oh boy, Blink does have a central problem with this
44:14
premise, but it does hang together a lot better.
44:17
Motha is very good on structure. Yeah, but also.
44:20
Which Blink isn't. Blink is executed magnificently.
44:25
Frankly, I said. Frankly, I even take the mobile
44:28
game that was made to an indirect sequel to Blink.
44:30
It's way better than Blink. That's fair enough, but.
44:35
You wouldn't be here. Yeah, exactly.
44:40
You have your existence to fight the blink all right.
44:43
Yes. Oh.
44:45
I can blame Stephen Moffett for ruining my life.
44:48
Now, Oh well, at least at least. Salvaging your life.
44:52
Yeah, fair enough. Well, A.
44:55
Young man is the best thing you ever did.
45:00
Well, I don't know that black arc of a rose and scream
45:02
charcoal quite good. No the black, no, the black
45:05
archive you did on the 11th power was much better.
45:09
That's just dedicated to you, yes.
45:11
I think they're all gold. I thought you're about to say I
45:15
think they're all garbage. No.
45:17
Available from. All good.
45:18
Office books website near you this.
45:20
Was invasion of the dinosaurs wasn't it?
45:22
Yeah, it. Didn't be offered that three
45:24
times. I liked it, yeah.
45:28
I mean. I.
45:30
Was I was sitting in the room multiple times while he was
45:33
watching it. So technically, you were sick.
45:38
You were sitting in the room. Eddie, technically when he was
45:40
first watching Blink. Technically, yeah.
45:45
Please don't remind me. Oh my God, Amy's crack.
45:49
Now that could be taken out of context.
45:52
Yeah, well, the the doctor's sort of touching it right now,
45:55
and I wouldn't suggest doing that.
45:57
All thoughts could come out of it.
45:59
Are you trying to? Are you trying to take?
46:01
Are you trying not to deliberately say out of context
46:03
lines or something? Absolutely not.
46:06
How could you accuse me of such things?
46:09
Joe never does such things. I mean, who knows what's been in
46:11
Amy's crack? We're we're probably about to
46:13
find out. Prisoner 0 has been in there
46:16
but. Rory's about to go in Amy's
46:17
crack. Well, he's done that a few
46:20
times, and he's experienced. So.
46:24
And the dog is putting his hand in Amy's crack right now, but at
46:27
least he's using protection. Oh.
46:30
He is. That's the light of the night.
46:34
Well done. Oh, no, He's having a bit of
46:40
trouble, Joe. The trouble with Amy's crack is
46:42
it bites, you know, And if you're lucky, it's such an
46:47
experience. You're raised from existence.
46:51
And here comes the silo ring. And here's the point I brought
46:54
up earlier. I would not do this if this was
46:57
me. Rory, no, please.
47:01
Why didn't you shoot Amy instead?
47:05
But because maybe she wanted to get a chance at going into Amy.
47:08
He's crap. Indeed, this is this is a
47:13
celebrated scene, This isn't it. And I do think the performances
47:15
here are great. Like she does this sort of
47:19
panicked fear so well. And you said she's got the eyes
47:24
for it. As you said, it's the big the
47:26
big eyes always helps out. And then it does lead into all
47:29
that wonderful stuff, doesn't it, in Vincent and the Doctor,
47:33
where she knows she's forgotten something but she doesn't quite
47:36
know what it is. And that's, that feeds perfectly
47:40
into the episode. That's the best thing about the
47:42
episode. It inspires or helps inspire
47:45
probably the best episode of the season.
47:48
I think so, in true Moffett style.
47:51
What? Best episode of the season.
47:52
Vincent and the Doctor. Person and the doctor.
47:55
But that's not the best episode of the season anyway.
47:57
What? I don't think this is better
47:59
than Vincent and the Doctor, do you?
48:01
Well. Not going to say anything but.
48:06
Somebody some headache tablets please.
48:08
To be fair, to be fair, I still think there's stories it there's
48:12
other stories that are also better than the Doctor in this
48:14
season as well. This is also.
48:17
Do you know what they're thinking of giving 16 and 17
48:20
year olds a vote? My God, we're in the show.
48:23
Don't worry, they're also thinking of sending them in the
48:25
military if things get too bad. We could be all right.
48:27
Oh. Geez.
48:30
I think as well, this is the first time, isn't it, that we do
48:33
murdering off a companion and then bringing them back later a
48:37
much overused. Stephen no, it's not.
48:39
This isn't even original. Stolen from Time Flight they
48:42
bring back. They bring back Hadrick in the
48:44
one episode of Time Flight. Did you forget?
48:45
Oh. Yeah, they don't.
48:46
Psychic projection. Isn't he?
48:49
Yeah. You must go back, Eddie.
48:51
If not, you will kill me. Terrible.
48:57
Oh God, it's probably also not a good time, isn't she?
48:59
It's probably also not a good time to say I like time flight
49:01
as well. Is it?
49:03
Oh no, Crispin's boys, It's great fun.
49:07
Oh, I tell Luke. Would love you.
49:10
It's worth. Noting, you know, that John and
49:13
I are suddenly on board with this story at the point where
49:17
the story has stopped and the Ark is invaded.
49:20
Yes, well, I've managed to do my job of getting you on board with
49:24
some aspects of the story at least.
49:26
Well, in certainly in the first episode.
49:28
This second episode is what's below a dog.
49:34
Dobbs bollocks and it's not the Dobbs bollocks.
49:37
Not that Jesus Christ. Just.
49:39
Bollocks. Oh is it?
49:41
Is it worth? Pointing out the true
49:44
hideousness of this TARDIS console room.
49:46
I hate it so much. The glass, the Chrome, the
49:52
bloody tomato sauce and mustard controls.
49:56
Sorry. Sorry, I'm just going to take my
49:58
leave now because I think I've had another.
50:00
Oh well, farewell. It's been fun.
50:02
It does, yeah. It does vastly improve in the
50:05
Snowman console. That's how the.
50:08
Look at those weird tubes. It's so cheap.
50:12
I call it the Thatcher. It reminds me of the of an 80s
50:15
conference room. You know the Thatcher console?
50:18
Oh my God. When he goes.
50:23
I'm supposed you're not even talking about all the flashbacks
50:25
we've just had like we've had for the rest of the season.
50:28
No, come on now, you're the one that keeps bringing up RTD Two.
50:31
He loves a flashback, even when it's from something in the
50:34
bloody episode you're watching. Oh, that's a.
50:38
Oh God. Oh, that was.
50:39
Terrible. And there's factory blowing up,
50:42
so a base that had Silurians in it blowing up.
50:46
Does that sound familiar? Oh, exaggerated.
50:50
Originally, this time, the Doctor's on board with it.
50:53
And the and the Sea Devils. And what is it?
50:57
Yeah. Do they throw in a line about?
51:00
The you know the. The barrier around the village
51:02
being lifted. No, not the open.
51:06
So that I think it's. Just a when they blow the baser.
51:10
Ambrose and Herf and her friends here will be stuck in it
51:14
forever. Here we go.
51:17
Well, it's COVID times. They'll be quite lucky if they
51:19
were. Stuck in a bubble, wouldn't
51:21
they? And he's my God, and he's trying
51:24
to Redeemer. Being stuck in a bubble in 2020,
51:28
how did he know it's? Precise.
51:33
Yeah, Christian. He was already planning flux,
51:37
I'm sure. He's the new Cassandra.
51:40
And why? What and and can I just talk?
51:43
Why didn't you point out in series 12 which was set in 2020?
51:46
Like why wasn't there like some sort of news article saying
51:49
breaking news based it in Wales or wherever it is in the middle
51:54
of Wales blown up? Because, fortunately, nothing as
51:59
dreary and imaginative as this happened in 2020.
52:04
I mean. Waving to.
52:08
Herself. It's also another annoyance I
52:10
slightly have as well as like around the time of like 6 series
52:16
10 or series 11. It's like around when Enemy of
52:20
the World is set in 2018 and whatnot.
52:23
It's like they don't even give him a mention at all, they just
52:25
pass by like there's no dictator or anything.
52:30
And that's the thing that they they're never going to pay.
52:32
So 2020 they're going, Oh yeah, my people are begged to wake
52:35
from their thousand years sleep and you're never going to be
52:38
able to pay that off because they want to keep this close to
52:40
the real world. No, they could have paid this
52:42
off, but Christian was in charge of the show for.
52:45
Three years if he managed to talk out enough to point you've
52:48
gotten to the end of the episode.
52:50
Hurray. It.
52:52
Ended. Yes, The bit where the sky turns
52:57
to pain. Oh, incredible.
53:01
One of those gorgeous sequences, all of Doctor Who.
53:04
I'd rather I'd rather the invisible monster from that than
53:07
the Silurians. Oh, great stuff.
53:14
Yes, well. To be is it?
53:16
Is it? Is it worse to say that?
53:18
I probably find this quite boring in some aspects as well.
53:22
I mean, it doesn't surprise me. But I mean, it's actually when
53:26
you get. A bit of life experience.
53:28
I feel like it's. When you appreciate that.
53:30
Well, yeah, but you said the same about Heaven Sent.
53:32
But I see other people. Is grief.
53:38
And one is depression. Eddie, I hope you don't get any
53:41
of those life experiences. Absolutely.
53:43
Oh well, if it means I don't have to like Heaven sent I.
53:48
Mean no, you don't ever have to do that.
53:49
There's no compulsion to ever like any episode.
53:54
As we have well proven adeptly on the many common truths we've
53:57
done so far. God, yes.
54:00
Well, how are we going to do this?
54:02
Normally it's free Fabulous things.
54:03
Unfortunately, I will only be choosing terrible things.
54:06
Eddie, I'm assuming you're going to go for fabulous things.
54:10
What? Well, well, clearly.
54:14
I mean, I may need to level up my game and take a note and take
54:17
a note from Fraser in Season 7. Oh.
54:21
My God. Unfortunate.
54:24
Unfortunately I didn't prepare 50 things for it so.
54:28
God for that. Do you remember how long we were
54:30
sitting there? I wrote a Shakespearean Sonic
54:32
when he was going for all of those.
54:34
I think I was probably dozing off.
54:36
Yeah, well, yeah, I gave you a little prod every now and again.
54:39
Oh. Wake up, it's your turn.
54:41
OK, so. I watched the 1929 Napoleon
54:45
that's six hours long. I know it's third time for a cup
54:48
as well. That's half the length of
54:49
Fraser's 56 things. Yeah, I'll.
54:53
So I'll put I'll try and name at least 10 instead.
54:57
Then Oh, OK, well, alright, well.
54:59
You start then. I like your ambition SO1I.
55:04
I do. I do really like the caves,
55:07
unlike someone else here or two other people here who think
55:11
they're cheap and unconvincing. Although to be fair, I will give
55:16
to them that one room that had like the glass box for the
55:18
Silurians, like exactly the one that just had the one light on
55:22
the grey ground, not the yellow lit room.
55:24
But that one was not great. But the other ones were all
55:28
great and I will not take anything else for granted 2.
55:34
Siloian's masks were pretty good, I really like it three.
55:39
I do. I do really like Murray Gold's
55:41
music in this as well, despite the facts we weren't able to
55:43
hear it. 4 Just because I know this is what Fraser's equivalent
55:48
of those shorts hat will probably be Amy Ponsky.
55:52
He probably chucked that in. So.
55:56
So if he's listening, just know that's taken from the note that
56:00
I've been given here. But then then five Rory seen at
56:06
the end is really well done. 6 I do really like how the ground
56:12
dragging under bits done 7 Just to make it the running gag.
56:18
Amy Ponsk. 8 yes I do think Nema Kintosh or whatever her name is.
56:33
It does the double role quite well considering it's like has
56:37
to play 2 Silurians in one and that's only been done by a few
56:44
actors beforehand in the show's past like Kafkaf when Mary Tam
56:48
had the quad role. In Android thing in the best
56:53
story of season 16. Is that reason 7 or reason 8?
56:59
I can't remember 8 no 7-8. And so 8 because you did the
57:05
running gag and. Then OK, no 9th point I do.
57:13
I do quite like how all the atmosphere of the medical area
57:18
was set up and 10 Leigh Shaw's hat.
57:23
You're talking about Amy Holds. Skirt again, are you?
57:26
Now I'm talking about Leigh Shaw's hat this time.
57:28
I mean. If I just Cherry Patterson, he
57:31
could have put it in it, couldn't he?
57:33
Yeah, I was going to say it's the third where you're a
57:35
tribute, so. And and just, and just to chop
57:40
it all off NUM #11 I, I do, I do really like it being just the
57:48
entire overall area as well. It's like really nice, really
57:52
nice countryside setting. I mean I don't actually disagree
57:57
with many of those things. I I think I agree with most.
58:00
Not the caves terrible, but I do agree with the rest.
58:04
Well, I mean. You can't skirt, you convert it.
58:08
Well, I spent so much time looking at a crack there that
58:11
yeah, I'm John. What's?
58:15
Your. Reason.
58:16
Wait, hold on, can I just check in another one?
58:20
Oh, so many things to learn about this story. #12 since you
58:23
disagreed with it, Matt Smith's TARDIS looks beautiful.
58:27
Oh. OK and all opinions are welcome
58:32
here. And.
58:34
Just. Just just for my my father,
58:37
because it annoys him so much. I got to go on his favorite
58:40
TARDIS set for the 50th anniversary and I don't even
58:42
remember any of it. Which one's that?
58:45
The next one. Yeah.
58:47
Oh yeah, gorgeous. And I don't even.
58:50
Remember doing any of it? It wasn't for the 50th
58:52
anniversary. Yet it was somewhere it was.
58:54
When they opened for a tour it was it was when it was when
58:57
Caroline was working for BBC. She got one of the 3D tours on
59:00
it. And I got.
59:03
You think one of the first ones, I was like, I'm saying because
59:06
they only had two spaces, that was I gave it up, Freddie.
59:10
And now I don't remember it's the.
59:11
Hardest thing I've ever done in my life all.
59:16
For me to not, I think it's just because I it's, I think it's
59:19
because I was near 80s crack. I do, you know I adore you, but
59:23
I would never give up that ticket to anyone, all right?
59:27
It's not even my other half. Quite.
59:29
Right. Well, not even if Amy Pond came
59:33
nagging at you and let and gave you a chance to go near a crack.
59:37
No, I'd shove her down a muddy owl and say get down there onto
59:40
the earth away from me and then put her in a coffin and gas her
59:44
like she was in this. Oh, sorry, that was a big
59:46
stream. I do apologise, John.
59:49
What are your three things? I I'll go puzzle off this.
59:53
I will go that last scene after Rory dies where they sell that.
59:59
So be it. It's possibly Karen Giln's best
1:00:03
seen in Who, because she really goes.
1:00:06
It's there's, it's not going for melodrama.
1:00:10
It's it's almost, it's going for the proper ugly kind of realism
1:00:14
of it. And then the horror of that
1:00:16
fading away. It's it's probably the best
1:00:19
reputation representation of the whole arc in the season to be
1:00:22
honest, because it gives it that real emotional heft of the
1:00:26
important things it takes away from you.
1:00:28
Yeah, buried in this dog. How annoying and.
1:00:32
Then, yeah, and then you've got this.
1:00:35
The second thing, the negotiation scene.
1:00:37
My freaking God. It's the best scene in all of
1:00:41
Doctor Who, obviously. If you meant that, I'd be
1:00:45
worried it's. About what?
1:00:47
Unless How do you know if I don't mean it by this point?
1:00:51
Well, because we know. You're mad, but you ain't that
1:00:53
mad. Because I know other things that
1:00:57
you prefer. To be fair, I do like the voice
1:00:59
over part though. At the start, yeah, I do point
1:01:03
out it's Nick from Mirror Spark. It's this is what's going to
1:01:06
happen. Essentially it gives you an idea
1:01:08
of fate. Frankly Christian but wasn't
1:01:10
even being original with a voice over over an image of her.
1:01:13
If he stole that from the end of time, stop.
1:01:17
It Yeah. Didn't even wait a whole year to
1:01:20
steal something. The negotiation scene, because
1:01:25
not only is it really badly conceived, there's absolutely no
1:01:32
logic behind it whatsoever. It's just not set up.
1:01:37
It goes nowhere. It it's it's kind of a nice
1:01:41
image. But yes, it's just got the
1:01:43
image. Yes, it does go some yes, it
1:01:45
does go somewhere. It it leads in to oh, we could
1:01:50
do this, but then they bring in it, they bring in a Leia who's
1:01:53
dead, and then that kick starts the whole chain of events where
1:01:58
it eventually ends up with Rory getting shot and Amy forgetting
1:02:00
everything. So yes, it does kick start
1:02:02
something. Thank you very much.
1:02:04
But I would thank it for your favorite.
1:02:06
I would suggest that if the negotiations are that fragile
1:02:10
that that can bring this enormous undertaking to a close,
1:02:16
then those negotiations weren't worth starting in the first
1:02:19
place. Yeah, there's a guy a read,
1:02:22
write on on social media I've met called David Southwell and
1:02:26
he has this thing of a good kind of, well, bit world.
1:02:31
You will kind of know where the sewage plant is.
1:02:33
So you metaphorically, you know, the underpinning of this world
1:02:37
and this world has no underpinnings.
1:02:39
It never feels good. It's as convincing as that.
1:02:42
Bloody capes. Which is very convincing.
1:02:45
Thank you very much. Was that your second?
1:02:49
Was that your third? That's your second, Was it my
1:02:52
second? Right.
1:02:53
Well, it's I. Find a third thing to say.
1:02:55
To be fair, I I was only just finding out now from you 2
1:02:58
disliking it that people dislike that case there well.
1:03:02
We do. I don't have a what we.
1:03:04
Yeah, we can't. You can't generalize from this.
1:03:06
We're mad. Well, Gen.
1:03:08
Well, generally I can tend to sort of do that based off how
1:03:12
people think. I'll say this, Peter Grimwade
1:03:15
can shoot a cave far more convincingly than Ashley Wade
1:03:19
can. There we go.
1:03:20
I'll leave it there. Yeah, there you go.
1:03:23
Certainly the lighting, it's fucking terrible.
1:03:26
Good. Through this story, Yeah.
1:03:28
Yellow is not a good look, is it?
1:03:30
I don't know. What?
1:03:32
I don't know what you. Like.
1:03:34
What are you not disliking? I'm not seeing it yet.
1:03:40
So I I hate to rack up rag on Doctor Who's story, but yeah,
1:03:43
this is not good. Oh, I love love ragging on
1:03:47
Doctor Who's story. I suppose I better do more for.
1:03:50
You well can I can I just say this?
1:03:52
You see him ragging on a good story like this is exactly why I
1:03:57
would also happily have gone on season 25 possibly and ragged
1:04:00
about great show in the Galaxy. Even even though I like it, I
1:04:04
would have ragged about it very happily.
1:04:06
I ragged on the Happiness Patrol and laughed as Fraser cried.
1:04:11
Oh dear, I I would love to see Miss face it now.
1:04:15
But I. I would have loved to.
1:04:17
See. Face it that.
1:04:19
I did. Oh come on, these things, if you
1:04:22
don't want to hear your things, you love being criticised.
1:04:26
Well, Father, do you? Do you forget you also really
1:04:29
like the Happiness Patrol? I know I do, but I I'm just a
1:04:33
lot of when Joe goes up on one. Well, look, my first one is
1:04:37
going to be positive and that is I think that the deeply average
1:04:41
first episode had some some flair to it, some, like you
1:04:46
said, nice vacation work. I think there's some good action
1:04:49
in it, that lovely sequence where the Silurian sort of
1:04:52
silhouette is running through the graveyard.
1:04:54
The the specs that allow that, the sort of interesting special
1:04:57
effects with everything in. I don't know what that's called.
1:05:00
Is it 3 DI Don't know the weird special effect that where you
1:05:03
can see the silhouettes of people running around.
1:05:05
All of that was quite fun. So that's my 1 positive.
1:05:09
My second thing is I think the entirety of the guest characters
1:05:12
are undercooked, underplayed, utterly unconvincing.
1:05:16
They're given terrible dialogue to say the motives that they're
1:05:19
given are are too obvious and too simple.
1:05:24
Yeah, I just none of them impact me at all.
1:05:27
The Mira Siao and that fella romance just never gets off the
1:05:31
ground. The mother and son relationship
1:05:35
that strikes me as being quite dangerous because she's willing
1:05:38
to torture and murder people for her kids and I, people love
1:05:41
their children and all of that. I'm not sure that's what we
1:05:43
should be saying in Doctor Who, that if you someone upsets your
1:05:46
kid or takes them away, go and torture and murder somebody.
1:05:49
Chris Chibnall, grief. Do you have children?
1:05:53
Frankly, I know my father wouldn't do that.
1:05:55
I think he probably just go up and say thank you for taking me
1:05:57
away. I'll rescue you, don't you
1:06:00
worry, and get you right back to him, OK?
1:06:03
Oh. You bastard.
1:06:07
And also, that's the scientist, man.
1:06:09
What were they doing? He's like Doctor Mengele in
1:06:11
episode 1. And then he's, oh God, what's
1:06:15
like the most cuddly uncle character you could possibly
1:06:17
think of? Uncle Buck in second in the
1:06:20
second episode. It's just so weird.
1:06:22
Depending on where the plot needs him to be, he's 2
1:06:24
completely different people. Yeah, terrible, terrible
1:06:28
characters. But the worst thing about this
1:06:31
story is it could do interesting things with its idea.
1:06:35
It's an interesting. And it does.
1:06:37
No, I don't think it does. I don't think it comes anywhere
1:06:40
close to grabbing hold of that idea and exploring it.
1:06:45
It certainly doesn't bring it the themes to any kind of a
1:06:48
conclusion. It just, it just cuts it did and
1:06:50
goes well, that's it. That's that bit over and done
1:06:52
with. Let's run around these caves for
1:06:54
15 minutes and then we'll end on a bit of the arc plot.
1:07:01
It's really it takes all the iconic bits and just expects
1:07:06
that to be enough. There is something so
1:07:09
interesting to be said about what is technically like an
1:07:12
immigrant species. Yeah, integrating into the the
1:07:17
the entire Earth. Yeah.
1:07:19
There's such an interesting story to tell that, I mean, it's
1:07:21
it wasn't that as I got two-part or either they tried it again
1:07:24
there and it was just as dismal there.
1:07:26
And it only got remembered for the war siege.
1:07:29
Oh God, that speech. You're the first person I've
1:07:33
ever heard dislike it. Oh, it did.
1:07:35
A lot of people who do dislike it's well delivered.
1:07:38
Oh, he's a brilliant actor, but the lions Jesus, Peter harness
1:07:42
you anyway. Well.
1:07:45
Do you not? Do you not like seeing 2 Gemma
1:07:47
red crows in one room? Do I need to answer that?
1:07:50
Question. Double the woods.
1:07:55
Well, I mean, I'm not going to forget what you said about Lucky
1:07:57
Day. I'm not getting what he said
1:07:59
about Kate there. Oh, no.
1:08:01
Yeah, she was quite good in that one.
1:08:03
She turned into a total soccer path.
1:08:04
That's rather wonderful. Yeah.
1:08:07
No, it's just an appalling script on every level,
1:08:10
thematically, emotionally, characterization, pacing, all of
1:08:15
it. You know, it's a proper dog.
1:08:17
Heard of a script that Christian was written here?
1:08:20
And I would probably say on the strength of this, he shouldn't
1:08:23
have been given Doctor Who. I'm glad he did because he had a
1:08:26
vision for Doctor Who and whether you like it or not, he
1:08:29
went for it and did really new things with the show and we
1:08:34
really appreciate. It I mean what you Iraq was in
1:08:37
the UK isn't even new. We nick the idea of giant
1:08:39
spiders from John Pitt. We as well.
1:08:41
There's one episode in that season.
1:08:43
There's so much innovation in that season.
1:08:46
He's making ideas left, right and centre.
1:08:48
Thank you for making me realize that.
1:08:50
Now I. Mean he he remembers that
1:08:52
historical can actually be a serious bit.
1:08:54
Of trauma he has dinosaurs on the spaceship not long after
1:08:57
this as well. He make the idea of dinosaurs as
1:08:59
well from John Perry. He's like.
1:09:01
No, but he does. Actually, I think you'll find he
1:09:03
that was given to him. You know para 3 though as well,
1:09:06
didn't he? Well, those fabulous cubes.
1:09:09
I love that one. I.
1:09:09
Love para 3 right till the end. Yeah, well, I'm unfortunate.
1:09:15
But yeah, his fault though, so. I'm surprised he was handed the
1:09:19
show after this script went out, but I'm pleased he was because I
1:09:24
think everyone should be given like, you know, a few chances
1:09:26
well. Yeah, well, well, he got it more
1:09:28
on the back of Broadchest. Yeah, but, you know, as a piece
1:09:32
of writing. It's the it's, it's one of the
1:09:36
greatest things this series. I'll go in completely the other
1:09:40
direction. I think it's probably one of the
1:09:42
worst bits of writing we ever had in Doctor Who.
1:09:46
Which is why I don't like. You well fellas, after
1:09:51
discussing that delightful masterpiece, where are we going
1:09:57
next? Earlier today I asked my father
1:10:01
to pick his poison between two stories from one from the 60s,
1:10:07
one from the 70s, and the other day I think he said sync
1:10:10
poisoning or something like that.
1:10:12
So. Cyanide.
1:10:14
Yeah, that's what I said. close enough.
1:10:17
Cyanide poisoning. What's that?
1:10:20
Something he'd rather do than watch.
1:10:22
These are the stories that I gave him.
1:10:23
Oh. Which two did you give him?
1:10:25
I gave him a choice between the Ice Warriors or the monster of
1:10:27
Paladon. What did he choose?
1:10:34
Cyanide. Which?
1:10:36
Which one's that could be either?
1:10:38
Poison. Father.
1:10:42
I tried to avoid it. Ed, which one would you prefer?
1:10:45
Go on. What?
1:10:50
Yes. I asked you to pick your poison.
1:10:53
I want you to pick your poison. I'll go with the lease there and
1:11:01
go, I'll say because I like Trenton, if not his stories,
1:11:05
just let's just go Ice Warriors. Oh.
1:11:07
Yeah, I can't wait to hear you blabber on about Victoria
1:11:11
screaming the whole episode. Hang on, where do we fall?
1:11:14
The Ice Warriors? Because I quite like the Ice
1:11:16
Warriors. I like it too.
1:11:18
Oh. I think it's Dell as hell and
1:11:23
it's got Debbie Watling. All right, Yeah.
1:11:26
But on on the plus hand, it's also got the voice actor of
1:11:28
Wallace from Wallace and Gromit in it, so you can't be guessing
1:11:31
it there. We'll do this, though, on the
1:11:35
condition that the one after that is one that John likes,
1:11:40
because that means he's done 2 on the bounce that he doesn't
1:11:43
like. Yeah, fair.
1:11:48
To be fair, he doesn't like any of the right Doctor Who anyway,
1:11:50
so. Wow, it's the conclusion we seem
1:11:54
to be coming to with this format.
1:11:56
Anyway, do you know what? Oh my God, I had a really quite
1:12:00
bad day today. I was feeling quite ill and
1:12:02
stuff. I sent a message to your father
1:12:04
earlier saying I really want to vent, you know.
1:12:06
And God, I feel as if I vented my spleen.
1:12:10
Because you've had obvious and cold blood to take all your
1:12:12
anger out. It's like the best therapy I
1:12:15
could have asked you gentlemen to give me.
1:12:17
Thank you. So.
1:12:18
Much. It's a shit Doctor Who story.
1:12:24
Although all that talk about Avis crack, good growth, that
1:12:26
was funny. Well fellas, till next time
1:12:30
then, when we head to the Britannica base in the Arctic.
1:12:35
In the year? In the year 3.
1:12:36
No, it's in Britain, isn't it? It's actually in Britain.
1:12:38
Oh. My God and.
1:12:40
It's a new Ice Age. But to be fair, I don't think
1:12:42
Joe will be heading there before taking another dip inside Amy's
1:12:45
crack. Yes, well, I should certainly
1:12:50
rather do that. Listen to Victoria wailing on in
1:12:53
that story. Oh dear.
1:12:55
Oh dear fellas, thank you so much well for enduring stroke
1:13:01
enjoying this story and until next time.