Latest / Hiking without a stitch / EP. 24 - Finding Community & Connection with Julian

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EP. 24 - Finding Community & Connection with Julian · Hiking without a stitch

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: Cooper told you to cover up.
• 0:02
  SPEAKER_00: Whatever two things do connect to.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome back to hiking without a stitch.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_00: Get naked, and big time.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_00: I'll share my screen toys for the trail.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_00: How's it going guys?
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome back to hiking without a stitch.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_00: I'm John your host, and today I'm sitting down with my friend Julian.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_00: Julian is someone I've had the chance to hike naked with, hang out with in nature here in Arizona.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_00: So today we're going to talk about how he got into naturism, how he's found community, and what he's learned along the way.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_00: We're also going to talk about something I think a lot of people are curious about.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_00: How do you actually meet people who are into non-sexual nudity and how do you do that safely?
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_00: Julian shares some of his experiences, meeting people online, setting boundaries, making sure everyone is on the same page and looking for the same types of experiences.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_00: We'll also talk about how becoming more comfortable with nudity has changed the way he sees himself and connects to other people around him.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_00: So let's get into this.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_00: Julian, thank you for coming on.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_00: I really appreciate your time.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for having me on.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_01: It's been uh it's been long overdue, I think.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_00: We are to set this up, I guess, we are recording live at Mira Vista, a clothing optional resort in Tucson.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_00: And you and I actually met through uh Instagram and linked up for a couple hikes, and now we're meeting here at Mira Vista.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_00: So I thought it'd be cool to kind of talk about in this episode how to meet people and your story and kind of what are some of the best practices that you have found helpful going through that.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_00: So if you could start off giving us a little background about yourself and kind of how you got into all of this.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I'll start by saying that I'm not originally from Arizona, but I think um when I moved out here in 2017, um, I saw that the community a little bit was lacking on that aspect.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_01: And um I met you through Instagram and I uh I was on board with a lot that you did.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I think uh it took a lot for me to reach out, but I'm glad I did.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_01: And um I feel like um when we went hiking, I think it was really cool and liberating experience.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_01: And um, and so I since then, I think I started officially, I want to say it was 2023.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but during COVID, I had my first kid and then my second kid in the 2021, end of 21.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_01: And um, so I was just home a lot, and uh I kind of felt like there was a missing piece there with the community.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so officially came to Mera Vista the first time at the very end, almost November of 2023.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_01: And um, I've been trying to make it out here once a month, and so I don't know what it is that led me to to come out to Mira Vista, but I feel like every time I come back, I meet someone new.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_01: And then I'm also trying to spread the word here.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_01: So it has been a very rewarding experience coming out here.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like a little bit of me is here all the time, and it's I'm always like an hour and a half drive away.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_01: I'm in I'm I'm in uh Phoenix, specifically Gilbert.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_01: And so I feel like this is kind of my home base, given the amenities and all that.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_01: And I know this is your first time here too, as well.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I'm glad we're doing this here and super cool.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_01: What a what a textbook experience, I think.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_01: I think this is uh part of something you have to really cross off your list.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm really glad to be here.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_01: I know.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_00: So am I, yeah.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for inviting me to like hang out with you here and see the place.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_00: Was your first visit here?
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_00: Did you come alone or something?
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I came with my spouse, actually.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_01: So um I told her about the idea.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_01: She had openness to it and she didn't really know how to, I guess, what to expect.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_01: And none of us do, right?
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_01: When we first come to something like this, we're like, what does that mean?
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_01: There's a lot of nuance to it, and I feel like people have a lot of preconceived notions about what something like this really is.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_01: And I um I feel like once we got here, um, it took about a whole 10 minutes to really get past the nerves, and I think we had a really good time.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_01: We met a lot of people at that time.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_01: I think a lot of visitors from uh Canada and San Diego were in the area, so we got to really expand our network immediately.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you almost forget that in the first, you know, after the first hour, you're you forget your clothes less or whatever.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_01: So um my wife uh praise the Lord was very, very supportive and often comes here.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_01: And we've been other places too.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_01: And I think uh this was our I wouldn't say our first time be both being naked on our own and together in public.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_01: So it was like our our send-off to this journey, I would say.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_00: So you guys, neither of you were brought up in like a naturist or nudist like household.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_01: No, I didn't even think that was an option for us.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_01: I thought that was just I don't know, it was just never an option.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_01: I never really considered it being something you can do.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and so Google is a great machine, you know, it's a great source of knowledge, and I feel like I figured I found out a lot about Mira Vista especially, and so I felt like I needed to give it a try.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_01: And so it was it was really cool.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_01: I'm glad I did it.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_00: Well, this is a great place to have like a first experience.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_00: I was just telling my wife that you know the vibe here is really relaxed, really respectful.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and the property itself is just beautiful.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_01: It feels really luxurious, resorty.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_01: My wife was pregnant at the time too, I I should say.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_01: So she was she was uh she was holding her second child.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_00: So it was Oh, that's so cool.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_01: Good for her.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_01: So it was it was a good experience.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_01: I'm glad uh I was able to do it.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_01: So since then, we've we've gone to a couple other places uh outside of Mera Vista.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_01: Specifically, we went to Australia with the Get Naked Australia community out there.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_01: They I same thing that I did to you, I reached out on Instagram and they were able to get me hooked up.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_01: It was rightfully so by invite only.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_01: So they they were able to explain what the process is, what it is, and what it is not, and what is not entailed in all that.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_01: And so it was cool, strictly, you know, naturist only and no no basically no funny business on that.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like super on board with that.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_01: And so once we got the link to join, we paid for the the cruise, and then we we got the flights, and then we got the the babysitters set up, and we had a good week out in Australia.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_01: It was it was it was fun.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_01: And then we also did um Cypress Cove.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_01: So we've done that as well, and that has that was fun as well.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_01: That was in June.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_00: How was Cypress Cove?
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_01: It was really cool.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_01: I think um we went uh right after right through Memorial Day, right after Memorial Day, and so it was very busy.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_01: Uh the weather was nice.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_01: I think it was the the peak season for them.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_01: The grounds are like three times as big here or over there than here, excuse me.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_01: Oh wow.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_01: And so they have a lake.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but you I did get to meet a lot of locals, people that have been going for for a long time.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_01: And then also, um, you know, my wife got to just enjoy uh just being away from the kids for a little bit.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_01: And that's so cool.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_01: Her and I get some uh some time alone.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_01: So we stayed there and then we visited some fun places in Orlando because it's outside of Orlando, um, and then we would come back to to uh very receptive uh welcome guests or excuse me, the p person at the front, you know, welcoming people.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_01: And then um the guests themselves were just really nice.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_01: We made a lot of cool connections.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_00: That's really cool to hear.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_00: At what point in your journey were you like this is something I I've done, but like I want to keep doing it.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_00: This is what drew you in to keep it going, I guess.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I think a lot of it has to do with personality.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and you know me semi-well, I would say that I'm I'm very extroverted.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_01: So I think pushing through that discomfort of of doing that is it's not easy, right?
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of people get hung up on that and and it's it's a very hard obstacle to overcome.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_01: But I feel like for me, I I enjoyed the first well, the first time I was very nervous, I should say, but the second time, I say everyone's second time is always the they're really icing on the cake because you you know where you're going, there's no visible threats.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_01: When you first show up here, you feel like you're gonna get attacked by something.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_01: Your body tells you that you're gonna be in stress mode or something, but it's quite the opposite.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_01: And I feel like uh once I got past the nerves, I was like, you know, I I really had the best nap of my life, or I really enjoy talking to these people.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_01: Or, you know, I had a conversation with someone that really resonated with me, and I think I want more of that.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_01: And it's not something that you can just walk up to back in where we're from in Gilbert, and you know, everyone's more guarded and more everyone's busy, right?
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_01: Everyone has stuff to do, and I feel like here you you really pause on that and and and really just be.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_01: And I feel like it was a very hard um I didn't know it existed.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_01: Once I found it, I'm like, there it is.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna I'm gonna keep nurturing that, I'm gonna keep sowing seeds here and really watering those plants.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_01: So I keep coming back once a month and I I I feel like I meet a new face every single time, and you know, there's regulars, and I feel like I could, as you see me, I I work remote here, so I I'm able to really just you know get my work done and really socialize.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_01: So for me, yeah, there's no doubt about it.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_01: There this is a place that I'm gonna keep coming back to.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_00: That's super cool.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_00: I love that you've had that experience, and getting naked really presents you that opportunity to be in that piece and really just kind of let your guard down.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I would a hundred percent agree with you about Mira Vista.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_00: That's really the vibe here.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_00: Well at what point, like when you contacted me, had you gone naked hiking yet?
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_01: Or no, that was the first time actually.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_01: So it it took a lot for me to reach out to a a stranger, quote unquote, through Instagram DMs, you know, it just it was like, I don't know.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_01: I just I don't know what what to start with.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_01: You know, there's all these preconceived notions of what are they gonna think about me?
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_01: Are they gonna think I'm legit?
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_01: Are they gonna think I'm after something else?
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I feel like when I reached out, I'm like, well, based on his content, you know, I genuinely am after the same thing.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_01: So if if they are open up to more connections on that front, then I think they'll hear me out, right?
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_01: And so, and I was correct, you know.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like when I first reached out to you, yeah, the drive-down was like, well, what if, what if, right?
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_01: What if this, what if that?
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's a very normal reaction to have, especially when meeting a stranger or whatever, per se at that time.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_01: There's always like, what if I I don't know, God forbid something happens on the side of a hike and I don't make it home, or what if this, or what if that, or what if there are evil intentions?
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_01: And I um I'm glad I pushed through that.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_01: And that was my first time.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_01: And uh I thought we were gonna run out of things to talk about, and I feel like the conversation is very genuine and very open and very honest.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I think not a lot of people get that opportunity, and so I feel like um I had a gut feeling that that was gonna happen.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_01: So my first hike was with was with you, and I I I thoroughly enjoyed it.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_01: And um, I think that was in remind me again, that was like in it was it was like March or something.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, there wasn't like water or anything, I don't think, when we went.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_01: It was a little breezier and a little colder, so still a little colder, but I I enjoyed it thoroughly.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_00: Well, yeah, and I was impressed that you actually showed up because I've had people reach out and then I go to the trailhead and either they flake out last minute, or before that they'll turn the conversation sexual in some way.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and it's like that's really not what I'm looking for.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_00: So I I'm I'm here for being out in nature, the camaraderie, yeah, the brotherhood, you know.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's it's been interesting navigating.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if you've experienced any of that of like people, oh, you you're in the naked thing, so that must mean that you want unsolicited pictures or questions.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I have not.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_01: So uh I I'm gonna count my blessings, you know, because sometimes all well, not not sometimes, all the time, pretty much they're unsolicited, right?
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_01: So apologies that that happened to you.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think that's obviously the intent of of what we're trying to get done here.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_01: And it sucks when someone has those motives.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_01: And I think I think you do a good job at trying to vet people, and I you know tend to do a good job at vetting people, and um yeah, I've I've I don't think I've gotten solicitations like that, and I'm gonna I'm just gonna try to be wise about it, but yeah.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, knock knock on wood.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_00: Knock on wood.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_00: Do you uh like the experience interacting with me and meeting up with me for the first time?
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_00: What was your biggest, I guess, concern with meeting someone new?
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um I guess safety is number one for males, even, believe it or not, especially for females.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_01: I think females definitely have a uh big guard up because rightfully so.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_01: There's been a lot of history around that, and um, their experiences have probably been very sexual in nature, and you know, there's a lot of unwanted attention.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_01: And so one of my concerns was is it gonna turn into that?
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_01: And I thank God it did not, right?
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it was a very genuine experience.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_01: We literally just hiked for an hour, almost an hour and a half, and talked and then went back.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_01: And it was more soul feeding than anything I've probably ever done.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_01: The other concern was is it gonna be a waste of time?
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_01: I think.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_01: I think you don't a lot of people are very cautious of investing their energy and their time, meeting a stranger.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I feel like if you're both in that context, like a lot of those questions are already answered and you're already at a base, right?
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_01: And so there's a high chance, right, that if if you're meeting genuinely meeting someone there to to just have a good naturist experience, that you're just gonna have that, right?
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so that that was one of my concerns.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um, safety, I would, I would say the biggest as a as a guy, as a father, you know, I don't want to put myself out there in danger and make sure that you know we're gonna get home safe.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_01: But at the same time, there's a reason people are reaching out, and there's a people, there's there's a reason there's uh outreach for that.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I think people genuinely do want that, but there's this like stigma around it.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think the only way to really find out is to just dive in and see, see what happens.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, and trust your trust your intuition too.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_00: If you're talking to someone and like you're getting a we a weird vibe from them, yeah, go with that.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_01: You know, there's always a tell.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_01: I think there's it, you just gotta give it time, and then eventually it it comes out if it really is gonna be.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um, that's their intention.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_01: And I think with you and I, like we started, you know, very casual conversation, not a lot.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_01: And I think on purpose, I didn't want to come off too too strong or nothing like that.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_01: So I didn't give off the wrong impression.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, people that have the wrong impression will will eventually they'll spill their, you know, what they're really trying to get, and they'll they'll like you said, right?
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_01: Right before meeting, they're gonna try to turn this into something that it's not, and then eventually you're like, well, it's a little sad, right?
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_01: Because you're like, well, I I kind of wanted to genuinely do this, but it feels like you're just yeah, you're you're not there yet.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you're here for the wrong reasons, yeah.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I think there's a lot of wisdom in that, right?
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_01: If if you're not quite ready for it, it's it could definitely turn you down a wrong path.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um, because this is meant to be very almost pure and innocent.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_01: And that's the way I see it.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_01: And so I yeah, I'm just not there for that.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_00: So as someone who's met up with random people that you met, what ways have you found works best for you to locate and find people to meet up and come to resorts like this or go to like a clothing optional hike or beach?
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, what's worked best for you?
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_01: Well, Instagram has definitely helped.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, obviously, I think I always look at someone's followers.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_01: If it's just a random nobody that has no followers that I at least know of you or something like that, uh, I tend to just be very guarded.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_01: I feel, and this is just my feeling, like if someone that is really looking to make that first dive or hike or you know, dive into it, I feel like they're gonna do their research a little bit and they're also just as nervous as I am.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_01: And so they're gonna try to find people on social media that they know of, mutual friends, you know, either go to the AANR website or listen to some podcasts and something like that.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_01: And so a lot of the friend requests that I've gotten have those mutual friends.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_01: And you could tell he's like, you know, it follows hiking without a stitch or you know, plus 10 or 12 others.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm like, okay, well, at least they're not just a bot account or something.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, they're in the right, they're in the right area.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_01: Correct.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_01: And I feel like that has been, it's hard, right?
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_01: It's been my only, I would say my only method right now.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um, sometimes I get traffic on my stories and people responding, and yeah, so you know, every now and then I engage conversation, but that that's it just takes time.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_01: I think if it's meant to be, it'll, it'll, it'll eventually work out.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_01: And then also meeting in a neutral place like this is a very good place to meet someone because if you know there's other people here that you're not just in the middle of nowhere by yourself, this is a very neutral place.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously, the rules are very strict here, and I I I enjoy that.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_01: I'd rather go here than a you know nude beach, which we've been to.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um nude beaches are just open season, I would say, and it just Yeah, there's less regulation.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_01: Very no regulation, in fact.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think um, you know, kudos to the people that go out there because there's there's if if you can do that, then you can definitely come here.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_01: There's less regulation out there.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_01: There's this just yeah.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_01: The Wild West.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_01: It really is, and you just really don't know people's intentions.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_01: Here there's uh a little bit of a boundary on that.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and if you're acting weird here, you would stick out big time very, very quickly.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um the other thing, I guess a tip that I just thinking about it is if you're going to meet someone, don't carpool.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, um, just so you can leave whenever you want to leave.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_00: Right, leave yourself an out.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, leave yourself an out.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_00: I've been in a situation.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_00: This was not nude hiking related, but I took a guy I met up in Washington, he moved to the area and we went hiking, and he actually tried to like kiss me on the hike, and it was like, you know, shoved away.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, well, that's not why I'm out here.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_00: And like then we had to have that conversation, and it was an awkward drive back to the parking ride.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_00: I did not know that.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so it was just really awkward, and that happened like a long time ago now, not recently, but well, that ruined that.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah, it was like it ruined for one the moment of the hike, and then it just made our relationship.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, oh well, we're not gonna be able to do that.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_00: It ended it right there, like basically, yeah.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_01: There's no turning back from that.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, because it was just you came with the wrong intentions.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_00: It was just a whole weird fiasco.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_00: So I like draw from that sometimes of well, don't carpool.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_00: Tell people where you're going, have your out ready, right?
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_00: And if it doesn't feel right, then don't do it.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_00: You know, absolutely your comfort zone.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I'm so sorry that that happened.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_01: That's that's that's that's my fear, yeah, essentially.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_01: That's everyone's fear, I think.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_01: And kudos to you for for navigating that well, but that can that can turn someone off for sure.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_00: It was just an interesting, like, huh, never had this before.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_00: Where where someone's intentions didn't meet what they were uh were saying.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um man.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_00: So that was like interesting to navigate.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_00: Have you ever had like any negative experiences in your time?
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_01: Thank God no.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_01: The only thing that I would say close was a couple came up to me.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_01: You could tell they were a little extra friendly.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I normally can navigate those situations.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_01: I kind of got the feeling that I'm like, okay, they're being a little too nice.
• 20:35
  unknown: Yeah.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_01: What's your real angle here?
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_01: And so uh, you know, trying to end the conversation and then, you know, make an excuse.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_01: I gotta go to the restroom or whatever.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_01: And then at least you're in a resort where no one's really gonna force anything on you or anything like that.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_01: And uh, you know, you give yourself that definitely that out.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so thank God, no, not like that.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_01: Good, physically, no.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_01: I don't even know what I would do.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it was just weird.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and and luckily that wasn't like related to anything with uh naturism or nude hiking, but it is like it does sit in the back of my mind when I go to meet people, like you your safety should come first, right?
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_00: And the consent and like boundaries are more important when you're stripping off.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and just the the presence of nudity isn't like an invitation for correct anything sexual or to be touched or to be, you know, stared at or made to feel uncomfortable.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_00: So all that goes into like when I think about because that's one of the biggest questions I get is well, how do you find people to meet up and hike with?
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_00: And it's really like trial and error.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_00: It is, it is gonna go with your gut and see if like you're comfortable meeting this person out in the middle of nowhere, right?
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_00: Or a better option meet them for coffee or a place like this.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I I don't know.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like there's there's just a a somewhat of a checklist.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: It's not a perfect checklist, but I think there there does have to be some due diligence and trying to get, you know, that across and and yeah.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I just want to give people information so that they can oh well, I'm thinking about meeting this person.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_00: Do you have any tips that you would give or before we kind of get move on?
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_01: Well, the entire goal of naturism and nudism is to really step outside of your comfort zone, right?
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_01: And so I feel like um the the easy part is to take your clothes off and be, you know, naked in front of everyone.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_01: But the outreach is is is hard, right?
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_01: Because as you see, and there's there's an age gap here, obviously.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's mainly due to social media.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_01: I think the people that are here consistently, they make new friends, they're not doing it through Facebook, they're not doing it through Instagram, they're not doing it through, you know, TikTok or Snapchat, none of that.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_01: They're just they're doing what they've known for years is just human-to-human interaction.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_01: It's a lot harder for the younger generation like us and be below us to really how do you shout that out in the marketplace, right?
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_01: There's just no way to really do that.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_01: And so I feel like social media does its job to get you into the door.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_01: Like, hey, there's people that, you know, so there's sometimes there's people that don't even, you wouldn't even know are are nudists or anything like that because of their profile, just by their mutual friends or something like that.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_01: But um, I feel like going to the naturalist pages, uh, influencers such as yourself, I consider you an influencer in that in that space.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_01: Uh pages like Yeah, Naked Australia, they have a lot of traffic.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_01: And you could tell uh the people that there's threads of communication with, like, oh, that's someone that has either been there before or knows someone there.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_01: And so you just start adding people there and then you know, start building up your network that way.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_01: And then eventually you comment on something, and then you get random friend requests.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_01: You get, you know, a like or something, and you know, okay, there's a lot of lurkers out there, yeah.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_01: But who's serious, who's not?
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_01: And I think uh I found you through that actually.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_01: Eventually we've we found uh each other, I should say, through just interaction on social media.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_01: And uh and then I realized, oh, you're in Arizona, yeah.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, well, Arizona's broad, but you're local, more local than someone in Australia or someone anywhere else.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, I I wonder if if he's interested in reaching out.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_01: If you're willing to put yourself out there on camera, uh, you know, promoting this, I would think, you know, someone with a genuine intention would be reciprocated on that.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that's I I don't I wouldn't say the only way, but I think that's the most effective way.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_01: It just there's no science to this.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_01: It's almost like uh you really have to put the phone down.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_01: At the same time, you have to put the phone up to to look at Instagram or whatever, but you also have to put the phone down and and actually do it.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_01: One of the things I thoroughly enjoy about being out here is that I don't, I'm not on my phone out here.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_01: It's you we're just we're talking, we're enjoying, we're we're meeting people at the pool or whatever.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's a little bit of both.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_01: But that this tool, which I call my phone and social media, is is really great at getting us connected.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_01: And then my personality should do the rest.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_01: But I get it, not everyone is as fearless per se as myself or others.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I definitely would encourage um, you know, reaching out.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think you're a very big big step in that right direction.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_01: You know, if you're mutual friends, again, you probably get a lot of DMs from a lot of people that are probably not the best intentions still.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I figured you know enough people, you're like a a nudist broker, I would say.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_01: And so I I I tend to trust you and be like, well, he's you're a mutual friend, so let's try this.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I will I will like before I usually, you know, add someone as a friend.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_00: I'll go through their feed and just kind of see what they're like on their page.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm not saying like people can't be sexual because we're humans, but you have to know when that's appropriate and when to turn that off and have it be like this.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_00: We're just sitting here talking face to face.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_00: Like if you're only focused on the nudity, then we're already like two steps back.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_01: We're not on the same page.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_01: And I think there is one of the things I would say is as someone who grew up in the church and is still actively involved in church, is I I think my biggest and a lot of men, I should say, they do struggle with lust.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_01: And that's the first thing that comes up.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, well, what am I gonna do if this or if that or if I see an attractive woman or blah, blah, blah.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_01: Or what if someone knows I'm here, given my past.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I think I I I don't necessarily have an answer for that specific what if, because what if anything, right?
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I don't, I couldn't really give you a specific answer.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_01: But what I've noticed now, being here three years, is that uh as any other man, my lust has virtually disappeared.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_01: I there there's it's like we we got this huge monster that we give too much power to, and we just knocked it over with a finger.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_01: And it just happened by consistently showing up, pushing through the discomfort and the maybe the reputation of going to one of these places.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_01: Because at the end of the day, who cares what anyone thinks if you're here or not?
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_01: But at the end of the day, I'm like, I don't find myself staring or thinking.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_01: It really, it's the thoughts.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you can't control that.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_01: You can control actions as much as you want, behavior modification, whatever you want to call it.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_01: But really, it's the root of it.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, I don't want to have these thoughts.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_01: Why am I having you know this come across?
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_01: And I think being here physically has really disarmed that.
• 27:42
  unknown: Yeah.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_01: And it has been a very effective tool against it.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_01: Who would have thought, but by being naked in place and physically in place, that that is through the fire, you you gig it through the other side.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it changes something up in the brain.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_01: And I think practice is is perfect, you know, makes perfect.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_01: So coming out here and realizing, oh, there's nothing, there's nothing going on here.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_01: It's just humans being humans.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_01: And so I was telling a friend that this is the Adam and Eve experience.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_01: You know, they they uh before sin entered the world, there was no concept of lust or or any of that, right?
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_01: And so I feel like uh this is as close as I can get on this side.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_01: I I I get to really feel that that connection to others, the connection to nature, and the true unmasking.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_01: Because a lot of us are are are walking around with a lot of preconceived notions, a lot of fear, that's a big one, a lot of shame, yeah, and a lot of um yeah, self uh harm in the in the in the in the thoughts.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I think um this is the the the one of the easier ways to combat that.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, and what you said about lust and that struggle, like for myself, growing up, like pornography was an issue for me.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_00: And I would just bash myself over the head, oh, you're not good enough.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's a cycle.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_00: You've disappointed God again.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_00: And when I took off my clothes and was around other people, it took that like nudity and took it off this mantle that I had put it on and just made it this very common theme.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, just like clinical.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_00: Like, oh, it's a body.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_00: I don't need to get worked up, I don't need to focus on it.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_00: It's just like me.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_01: There's nothing to it.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we're living our lives, and that was like really freeing because my entire life I dealt with shame and struggle, and then coming here being naked, there's just so much freedom.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like if, and this is just a theory, right?
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_01: But I I feel like if in the perfect world, I and this is just my thoughts, right?
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_01: Like if if people were more open to it from a younger age, nothing sexual again, yeah.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_01: But just very normal, common, there'd be a lot of less sexual sin around in the world.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I think because we we tend to get this uh high from it because it's such a hidden thing.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_01: Because again, purity culture had its thing, it was a good thing and it had its good and it had its bad.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_01: The bad was that, yes, I could appear to be a good person, but you really don't know what people are thinking.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_01: You really don't know what's going on in in their in their deepest of the deepest.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_01: And so sometimes when people commit crimes or people commit scandals or they cheat, especially like pastors, or you know, people in in the in leadership positions, I just sometimes wish they were given an outlet because you would I think if they were properly given or they took those steps or it was more common to do that, that that wouldn't be an issue.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and and so I, you know, change is very slow.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I I don't know what heaven's gonna be like, but I know that when heaven was on earth at one time, we were nude, we were nude.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_01: So I don't know if we're gonna be nude again, but I'm nude now.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_01: And so it doesn't really matter what uh what's gonna happen.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's really a change of mind.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_01: And uh and then the Bible talks about that, right?
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_01: Renewing your mind.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_01: And it's not just specifically talking about taking off your clothes, it's uh it's a whole transformation.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_01: It's really about changing your identity, removing that shame, removing what you thought you were, your track record even, because we've all made mistakes.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and we will we're not exempt from making mistakes in the future.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_01: But I think uh being easy on yourself and what is that really we tell ourselves, well, in heaven I'll be perfect.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_01: In heaven I'll be this.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_01: Once that goalpost is achieved, then I will blah, blah, blah, right?
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_01: What I'll be happy per se.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_01: I'll be me.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I I would challenge that and I would say, no, you could you could really be that now.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_01: You could do that now.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_01: And I think the uh a gift from God, I would say, sometimes is when you're allowed to come into these spaces with a pure heart because you know and God can trust you, and God knows that you're not gonna go do something stupid.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_01: Not that you're exempt from it, but you know, generally speaking, you're anchored and you're really you're rooted in that.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_01: And I think uh the first time I was ever nude, I was like, am I doing something wrong here?
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_01: I felt like I was gonna get struck by lightning.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that is a very normal response.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_01: And uh I I it it it obviously, praise the Lord, we're still here.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we're not gonna be.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_01: We didn't get struck by lightning.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_01: But we're still here.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_01: And I think there's a little bit of uh fellowship between others that um if you really unmask all the layers, like this is its form.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_01: And I I I think it's a shame that people sometimes don't want to experience that because you know, there's a lot of hurt or whatever, especially coming from church, and I get it.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_01: And so none of us are exempt from that.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_01: I I feel like uh uh spending time by myself really digging through that and dispelling a lot of those thoughts has led me here.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_01: And I think um I'm gonna keep I'm gonna we're gonna keep it growing.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's this is just a beginning.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I think the the just sitting the the times that I've like hung out with you, we've had such deep, awesome conversations.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_00: Whereas I think if we were clothed doing those activities, it they might not have been that deep.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_01: Right, yeah.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_01: Well, right.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_01: I think there's there's a lot going on.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_01: I I want to say that clothing is a mask, almost.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_01: And it's a subconsciously a mask.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_01: I think uh what you wear, what brand, what how much you spent on clothes is all shouting an insecurity out, right?
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_01: And I think when you remove all that, everyone is back to square one basics.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_01: And I think you're right.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_01: I've never met you clothed, I don't think.
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and so this is I I I like it.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_01: You know, this is more more my my pace and my the depth of our conversations has been really cool.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_01: I've got I feel like three of our meetings have been, you know, maybe 14 if we weren't, right?
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_01: It takes a long time to really meet with someone when they're clothed because there's a lot of the same what-ifs are there, right?
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_01: Except you're clothed and you just really don't know if this is a dead end or not.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_01: But when you start off with all that stripped away, it just really becomes like, nope, this is a very safe space.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_01: We're gonna have deep conversations, it's not gonna be sexual whatsoever.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_01: We're just gonna have a good time.
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, almost like uh what I would call pre-puberty.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_01: You don't have any of that, right?
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_01: I think men specially, once puberty hits, you become this, you feed this monster.
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously, we need, you know, testosterone is great, and puberty is great to to procreate and keep the human race going, but there's also a lot of um bad with that.
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_01: There's a lot of violence, a lot of pride, there's a lot of sexual sin if if that is not um checked.
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_01: And I think fathers are a good sometimes the good fathers, right, are a good gatekeeper to that, to like, hey, we don't do that to women, we don't do that to others.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_01: We we're not proud, we don't start shit, we don't end shit, we don't do anything, right?
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_01: We just and so I feel like uh what's the word?
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_01: Disarming that train of thinking.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_01: Because from an early age, 12 onwards, you're you're that's your one thing you're overdrive.
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_01: And that's where pornography comes out of, that's where sexual sync comes out of, that's where a lot of uh brokenness comes out of.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I think this is a way to undo that and get back to, you know, can we be civil as adults?
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_01: Can we be genuine as adults?
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_01: Can we be here together enjoying fellowship and not even think about what people look like?
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_00: Well, exactly.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_00: That's that's the beauty of it, really, is like pornography and the lies show us a false image of what this is supposed to look like.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_00: And coming to a place like this, you're like, oh, they look just like me.
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, they look, this is just what normal bodies look like.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_00: There's no standard, there's no judgment, it's not this big thing.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_00: You're just like, oh, here it is.
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_00: No expectation.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_00: We're just here.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_01: I think the the what I would say is the arousal part sometimes when you're you know right going through puberty, it's because you haven't seen enough.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you're not used to that.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_01: And so the arousal happens, right?
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_01: And so we we disarming that.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_01: Now it's just like, oh, no, we're just we're just here.
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_01: There's like there's nothing more to it.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_01: There's really not not not nothing else.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_01: And I think uh I could talk days about this, but really physically unwinding here, it has really drained my my cortisol for sure.
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_01: I uh just like I come back so relaxed, I talk to a lot of people, I meet people, and this notion of like, well, I'm not gonna talk on the spoken to.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_01: That even has changed.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_01: I know some people uh probably struggle with the social aspect, but you know, I I was like, you know what?
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_01: What if I start a conversation just because and uh doing it has been uncomfortable, but man, it has been great.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I don't care what they think, we're already here.
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, we're what what else are they gonna laugh at me about, right?
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_01: Potentially.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and you're both here for similar reasons, right?
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_00: So it's like not too far-fetched to be like, hey man.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_01: Correct.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_01: Dude, it's a good day.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_01: No, it it has been it has been a great journey.
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um I really wish and I don't need to wish, I think at some point in Arizona there's gonna be a there's a cry for that.
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think there's a cry for genuine uh community, uh, where there's some people are willing to pass are willing to pass that that shame wall, whatever.
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I feel like Arizona could be a very cool spot.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_01: I've seen it in Australia.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_01: I've seen, you know, a I've been on a cruise with a hundred people-ish, a hundred plus people, and not once was it like I what's anyone's ulterior motive here?
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_01: It was just we're gonna have fun, we're gonna eat barbecue, we're gonna drink, we're just gonna swim, just gonna have a fun time with music, and that's really it.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_01: And it was one of the one of the better experiences I've ever had.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_01: I think I I want to go back and enjoy that.
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_01: And I not only do I want to just go visit, I want to create that.
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_01: I think I want to, we there's there's enough people out here that are quote unquote hiding per se because of a fear of judgment.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I think um, I don't know what it's gonna take for us to like really like, hey, come out of the woodwork, please.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_01: Like, like we we want that.
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um one of our friends in Austin is uh is is is you just decided I'm gonna start on Instagram and I'm gonna call people and I'm just gonna keep posting.
• 39:05
  SPEAKER_01: And whether it gets one like or a hundred likes or a thousand likes, we're just gonna keep and you as well, right?
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_01: You started with your first post.
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_01: Do you remember your first post?
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_01: Probably got two likes or something, or I don't know.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_01: I joked my mom with one of the two likes.
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_01: And your mom's okay with it, right?
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_01: It's so I it it just it it it we gotta start somewhere.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um I found you, you found me.
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I think it's one of those places where we keep we just keep pecking at it, and eventually the the tree will grow.
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_01: I think we just keep watering it and people will keep showing up, and maybe we do more social events in Phoenix.
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I don't know what that looks like, right?
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_01: What what what space could host a community?
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_01: Do we even have people that are willing to do that?
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_01: But I I have a gut feeling that there's enough.
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, going to Shangri-La, there's there's there's people, there's people here, there's people at U of A, there's people at Shangri-La, there's people in Phoenix.
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, they're out there.
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_00: I just don't know what the right channel they need an organizer, they need to uh to bring it all together.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um so switching in the conversation a little bit, you mentioned Australia.
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_00: Can you tell me a little bit more about about like that trip?
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, so if you think I was nervous meeting you an hour away, imagine flying 14 hours away.
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_01: And so I uh DM'd um his name's Brendan.
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_01: I DM'd him and uh I essentially said, Hey, my wife and I are naturists, we're you know, we're active in our community out here.
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_01: I love what you're doing.
• 40:41
  SPEAKER_01: We would love to go on the next one, but I get it.
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_01: I know that there's probably a million people in line already, judging by the comments.
• 40:49
  SPEAKER_01: And I just sent the DM and I never thought he would respond, but he did respond.
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um obviously there's a time difference, but he responded and he said, Hey, yes, but just to preface it, there's it's non-sexual.
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_01: There's no swingers, no hooking up, no lewd behavior.
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so if if um if that is okay with you, then I would love to have you guys over.
• 41:10
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, absolutely.
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously, it helps that I had a partner, my wife.
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_01: And so um that's another thing, too.
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of people that are asking to join places are probably single, and that is a big barrier because we tend to not say yes to people like that because you just truly don't know.
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, um in my scenario, uh, it was both of us.
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_01: He saw my Instagram and he was like, Yeah, no, no, here's the link if you want to do it.
• 41:37
  SPEAKER_01: I told my wife, like, hey, it is invite only, but we got an invite.
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_01: So do you want to do it?
• 41:43
  SPEAKER_01: And she says, Yeah, let's let's make it happen.
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_01: So we we booked the flight, we booked the thing, and I even said, Hey man, like we did it.
• 41:51
  SPEAKER_01: So here's our confirmation.
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_01: Here's and he responded.
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_01: He says, Oh, great, can't wait to have you.
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, looking forward to you.
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_01: We're staying at he gave me all the hotel details.
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_01: A group of us are staying here.
• 42:00
  SPEAKER_01: We're gonna go to a nude beach first.
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, badass.
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_01: The day before, we're gonna hang out, and then you're more welcome to hang out with us.
• 42:06
  SPEAKER_01: So, very welcoming from the get-go from overseas.
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and so I feel like that made it a lot easier, but yes, still very nervous.
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_01: I also had a backup plan just in case it fell through because I you'd never know.
• 42:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 42:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but it it didn't, it worked.
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, I saw him from a distance, he came and said hi to us.
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_01: We shook his hand and we got to meet everyone, and then I just got to have this, right?
• 42:30
  SPEAKER_01: Just the conversation.
• 42:30
  SPEAKER_01: But we were at a beach, yeah.
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_01: And so it was really cool because it was in February, it was their summer.
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, that would have been rad.
• 42:37
  SPEAKER_01: It was awesome.
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I got to meet a lot of people, uh, my age too.
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_01: Cool.
• 42:42
  SPEAKER_01: So no one, I don't think anyone older than 40 was there, 45.
• 42:45
  SPEAKER_01: And so it was really cool.
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, wow, like, and he had started this years ago, so this is a good moment, like a momentum of like what it could be.
• 42:54
  SPEAKER_01: So I was really happy to be a part of that.
• 42:57
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like it gave me good experience, obviously, something in my resume to like really carry around.
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_01: And so I had a great time, man.
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_01: It was it was fun.
• 43:05
  SPEAKER_01: It was a sunset cruise, too.
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_01: So it was like we got to see the whole city, we got to see Sydney from the boat, the opera, everything.
• 43:12
  SPEAKER_01: We went to a spot.
• 43:13
  SPEAKER_01: So on the on the boat, we were clothed until we we turned the cove, and then there was like uh the the beach again, and we anchored, and then we took our clothes off.
• 43:22
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, that's so cool.
• 43:23
  SPEAKER_01: Brought out the slides and then brought out the music.
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_00: Was there anything about that trip or experience that kind of surprised you or that you thought was different in Australia compared to their naturism or nudism to our vibe here in the US?
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_01: They're more open.
• 43:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think we're more closed off.
• 43:43
  SPEAKER_01: I think we we have a lot of guards up, and I mean I've noticed that when I went to Australia, like generally speaking, even the people that are clothed are a little nicer.
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_01: I think out here we're just we're on edge politically and socioeconomically and everything.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_01: Right, everything is kind of on edge, but I don't think we realize how good we have it.
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 44:04
  SPEAKER_01: And we tend to take we zoom in on our problems too much.
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_01: And over there, like even the pace of life was different.
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_01: Like it was a Thursday, it was a Friday, but the beach was full on Thursday.
• 44:16
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, oh.
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_01: They're like, yeah, we're on lunch break.
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_01: We like a four-hour lunch or something like that.
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_01: I love it.
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_01: It's a different, it's a different world out there.
• 44:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so it was like, wow, this is very laid back.
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_01: And it's a very race showed out too.
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_01: It was like half women, half men throughout the whole thing.
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_01: So it was like, oh, even the women feel safe out here.
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_01: I wonder what it is.
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_01: Because I don't know if I could say that about the US.
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_01: I I just don't know what it is about here, but yeah.
• 44:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's it's really interesting because same with British naturism.
• 44:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 44:47
  SPEAKER_00: They seem to have a very good balance of men and women, yeah, age.
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_00: So it it's I always look at that and wonder what are they doing?
• 44:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, what's the factor that allows the the safe feeling?
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_00: What uh what are some of the lessons you've learned from being naked and stripping off?
• 45:05
  SPEAKER_01: And well, believe it or not, I thought I was gonna get further away from God.
• 45:08
  SPEAKER_01: I got closer.
• 45:10
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's the the number one.
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_01: I think I got a lot closer.
• 45:13
  SPEAKER_01: I I I was able to sit in my quote unquote discomfort for a little bit and realize like, I was born this way.
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_01: What the hell am I what am I talking about?
• 45:22
  SPEAKER_01: Like, why why is this inherently bad?
• 45:25
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not doing anything.
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_01: If I'm here and I don't really have lust or a bad thought in my head, then am I really like doing anything bad here?
• 45:35
  SPEAKER_01: Like, uh, I'm still the same me.
• 45:38
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not any different.
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_01: He doesn't see me any different than than with a polo on and shorts, right?
• 45:44
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's it's how does that make a difference psychologically?
• 45:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 45:47
  SPEAKER_01: I started dispelling that argument.
• 45:49
  SPEAKER_01: And so that is the number one lesson I would say is that I got a lot closer, one to myself and to others too.
• 45:57
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that the Bible talks about that.
• 45:59
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, hey, we're here on this earth to spread joy and to spread the word and to really to get closer to to others and and it's a very unconventional way, but somehow by taking off everything, it's like you get you get to see me for who I am in a way, and there's like no hiding that.
• 46:19
  SPEAKER_01: And so uh I've learned that.
• 46:21
  SPEAKER_01: I've learned to uh also how I view myself, like I don't have to really strive to look.
• 46:28
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, sure, I want to be healthy, don't get me wrong, but I don't have to be supermodel to be accepted.
• 46:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yep, we do that to be accepted in society rather than to just be so I you know I don't know what the average body has looked like through time, um, but I don't know if it's been cosmetically like abs and you know ripped, and maybe yes, but your average body, yeah, I I don't I don't think so.
• 46:59
  SPEAKER_01: I'm I'm not rocking, I'm not rocking the abs, you know what I mean?
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_00: Like I'm just what I love about it.
• 47:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, even in a normal pool with a regular pool, you take your clothes off, everyone expects you to have abs.
• 47:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 47:11
  SPEAKER_01: Guys don't want to take off their clothes because I didn't work out hard enough this winter and I'm not ready for the summer.
• 47:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and and here it's like I don't even I don't even that's not even a thought in my head.
• 47:21
  SPEAKER_01: I was just like, let's go.
• 47:23
  SPEAKER_01: And so I that has been like and and and you know, when we go on vacations in public with my family and everyone else, like even there, it's like, oh, I don't care what I look like.
• 47:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's like yeah, I I know where I've been.
• 47:35
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, my friends are here, and the people that the people's opinions that I care about are here, not well, yes.
• 47:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it doesn't matter what people think of me.
• 47:44
  SPEAKER_01: So I think body positivity, my relationship with myself and my relationship with God has really just strengthened over time.
• 47:50
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's beautiful.
• 47:51
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 47:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 47:53
  SPEAKER_00: Do you have you found that it strengthened your marriage and relationship with your wife?
• 47:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, um, I would say yes, for sure.
• 48:01
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think um this hasn't been an issue.
• 48:04
  SPEAKER_01: My wife and I uh are normally, to an extent, nude at the house.
• 48:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um, not all the time, because I don't want to make that everything.
• 48:12
  SPEAKER_01: Because we don't, it's not like it's a mission of mine to always be, you know, it's it's your choice.
• 48:17
  SPEAKER_01: That's exactly the the way it should be, right?
• 48:20
  SPEAKER_01: So what I've seen is we tend to typically be at night when we're going to bed.
• 48:24
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously, we sleep without any clothes.
• 48:26
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, that's when we we just tend to fall into ourselves.
• 48:29
  SPEAKER_01: We watch TV, we we even spend some time in our yard and I garden for a hobby because I'm I'm a remote worker, so I can I can do that.
• 48:37
  SPEAKER_01: And so whenever I get a chance, I uh on my lunch break, I'll go outside and take my clothes off, swim around a little bit, hang out, and then go back to work and put my clothes on.
• 48:45
  SPEAKER_01: And it's just like whatever I'm feeling, if I feel like, hey, I have, you know, the kids are away or my wife is away or whatever, it's just me at the house.
• 48:53
  SPEAKER_01: Like this is me time.
• 48:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 48:55
  SPEAKER_01: And I think I've uh I've learned to just embrace that and I I seek it and I I look forward to it.
• 49:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but then there's also the social aspect where I want to meet friends here or grow a community and and just have conversations by the pool and with a little drink.
• 49:09
  SPEAKER_01: Heck yeah.
• 49:10
  SPEAKER_01: And that's that's that's my vibe, man.
• 49:12
  SPEAKER_00: That's awesome.
• 49:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 49:14
  SPEAKER_00: One last question.
• 49:15
  SPEAKER_00: If someone's listening today, what would be the one thing you would like them to take from this conversation or tidbit of information you would like to just send them off with?
• 49:24
  SPEAKER_01: I honestly it's to it's to take the dive and just do it.
• 49:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um, there's a reason you're lurking, there's a reason you're searching, and there's a reason why you keep, you know, secretly, whether you don't, you know, follow people or whatever, uh, that's gonna get you 25% of the way there.
• 49:41
  SPEAKER_01: You the real the real uh prize is when you physically get in here and do it.
• 49:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um and it's not like it's gonna you ripped some people rip the band-aid off, some people don't, some people phase their way in.
• 49:53
  SPEAKER_01: But I really would encourage more people to really try this and then just get in and and just do it.
• 49:59
  SPEAKER_01: You you would be surprised the lifelong friendships that you would make.
• 50:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and most people want to really be seen.
• 50:08
  SPEAKER_01: What better way?
• 50:10
  SPEAKER_01: You don't have to come out here and show a resume of any sorts or display your your bank statements or your W2 statements or how much you make, or here's what I drive, or here's what I've done, or here's what I've been.
• 50:23
  SPEAKER_01: None of that matters here.
• 50:25
  SPEAKER_01: There's multimillionaires and there's broke people here.
• 50:27
  SPEAKER_01: It's all we're all just human because at the end of the day, this is kind of a similar scenario that we're gonna find ourselves.
• 50:34
  SPEAKER_01: We're all gonna be baseline.
• 50:36
  SPEAKER_01: Nothing that you ever did is gonna matter.
• 50:38
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it then I shouldn't say that.
• 50:40
  SPEAKER_01: It it's it'll matter, but it won't be where I'm better than someone because I did this and you didn't.
• 50:47
  SPEAKER_00: You're not using it as a factor.
• 50:48
  SPEAKER_01: That's a competitive factor.
• 50:49
  SPEAKER_01: There's no competition here.
• 50:51
  SPEAKER_01: No competition in how much I weigh, how much I make, uh, how I look, what I've done, who I've met.
• 50:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 50:58
  SPEAKER_01: None of that matters.
• 50:59
  SPEAKER_01: It's we're just if you're here to have a good time, to be seen, to be, to be known is another thing.
• 51:07
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of people present versions of themselves that are just completely false.
• 51:11
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 51:12
  SPEAKER_01: There's millions of Netflix documentaries about people that have scammed others who thought this was one person, but they're just acting.
• 51:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 51:19
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you can make, you can do a lot with get creative with how you act.
• 51:22
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't think there's any acting here.
• 51:24
  SPEAKER_01: It's like if you're willing to take your clothes off, it's like, yeah, you're about it.
• 51:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you're about it.
• 51:29
  SPEAKER_01: There's there's what else, you know, what else is stopping you?
• 51:32
  SPEAKER_01: So I would really encourage others to really reach out to, I don't know, an influencer, yourself, uh, A and R, you know.
• 51:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think I've seen an uptick in that.
• 51:44
  SPEAKER_01: I've I remember at Cypress Cove and here and Shangri-Lai, I've seen people that you could tell they're by themselves.
• 51:50
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 51:50
  SPEAKER_01: And so I'm like, wow, that is that is balls.
• 51:53
  SPEAKER_01: That is good for them.
• 51:55
  SPEAKER_01: Because they came here, they drove by themselves, and there's in their mind, there's a gamble.
• 52:00
  SPEAKER_01: Am I gonna meet cool people or not?
• 52:02
  SPEAKER_01: And they probably they're hopeful, but they're not really optimistic.
• 52:07
  SPEAKER_01: And I think um one of the things too is like, hey, reach out.
• 52:11
  SPEAKER_01: You know, if you're if you see a group of people at a resort and you're just by yourself, like go make the go make the initial conversation.
• 52:19
  SPEAKER_01: And this is a lesson to myself too, because I remember my first couple of times here, I kept to myself.
• 52:24
  SPEAKER_01: And it was a very I mean, it was a rewarding experience, but I left wanting to.
• 52:32
  SPEAKER_00: Right communion.
• 52:33
  SPEAKER_01: I wish I was like, you know, how would it have been if I actually did go talk?
• 52:37
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't want to live with regret.
• 52:38
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think any of us want to live with regret.
• 52:40
  SPEAKER_01: So you won't regret it.
• 52:42
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's it's part of uh of who we are, wired to be.
• 52:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and the people that are genuinely here, I think they'll all find each other.
• 52:51
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, Arizona is one of the best places to do that.
• 52:53
  SPEAKER_01: I think the weather is great here, and here we are in almost October, and it's 95 or something right now.
• 52:59
  SPEAKER_00: We're sitting at a table in the sun.
• 53:01
  SPEAKER_01: It's beautiful.
• 53:01
  SPEAKER_01: Like I'm gonna go in the pool again, we're gonna wrap up this episode, we're gonna go finish our drinks or whatever.
• 53:06
  SPEAKER_01: And then, man, I it's just it's been a very rewarding experience.
• 53:10
  SPEAKER_01: And I I always imagine if I didn't just do it.
• 53:14
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, where would I be?
• 53:16
  SPEAKER_01: How different it would be.
• 53:17
  SPEAKER_01: Very different, you know, always yearning for something, but never actually doing it.
• 53:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 53:22
  SPEAKER_01: At some point, you're gonna have to physically do it.
• 53:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 53:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 53:25
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for having me, man.
• 53:26
  SPEAKER_00: Dude, yeah, thank you for coming on and sharing your story and being open and you know, vulnerable.
• 53:31
  SPEAKER_00: I really appreciate it.
• 53:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I think more people like you is the answer to the changing landscape of naturism and nudism that we're kind of seeing right now.
• 53:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 53:42
  SPEAKER_00: There's a shift, and it takes really good people like you and like our buddy from Austin starting stuff like Barely Social, yeah, uh, and other hiking groups there that are, you know, people are looking for this.
• 53:55
  SPEAKER_00: So I hope that at some point we start something in Tucson or you start something in Tucson, and I don't know what that looks like, but I think the future is very bright.
• 54:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 54:05
  SPEAKER_00: And uh I can't wait to see what you know happens.
• 54:08
  SPEAKER_00: So thank you for your time and your thoughts, man.
• 54:10
  SPEAKER_01: My pleasure, man.
• 54:11
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 54:11
  SPEAKER_01: Let's enjoy the rest of the episode.
• 54:17
  SPEAKER_00: All right, that was a great conversation with Julian.
• 54:20
  SPEAKER_00: I really enjoyed hearing his story and talking about how he got into naturism and finding community and what these experiences have been like for him and his wife.
• 54:30
  SPEAKER_00: I think one of the biggest takeaways from this conversation is that finding people to share these experiences with can really be a great part of naturism, but you also have to use common sense.
• 54:41
  SPEAKER_00: So if you're meeting someone especially new for the first time, or someone you met online, take your time, talk a lot beforehand, make sure you're both looking for the same types of experiences, set your boundaries and meet somewhere you're comfortable with.
• 54:56
  SPEAKER_00: It's always a good idea to let someone know that, you know, where you're going and what you're doing.
• 55:02
  SPEAKER_00: And make sure you have your own way out to leave.
• 55:06
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, if you need to leave or you feel uncomfortable, just head out.
• 55:10
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you need you need to have your own way out.
• 55:12
  SPEAKER_00: So do that.
• 55:13
  SPEAKER_00: And you don't need to rush into anything.
• 55:16
  SPEAKER_00: There doesn't need to be nudity right away.
• 55:19
  SPEAKER_00: Get to know the situation, get to know the type of person you're dealing with, and do what you're comfortable with, and remember that you can always change your mind.
• 55:27
  SPEAKER_00: So, Julian, thank you again for coming on and sharing your story.
• 55:30
  SPEAKER_00: It was it was really awesome to get to know you more and have that conversation with you.
• 55:35
  SPEAKER_00: Special thanks to Mira Vista in Tucson.
• 55:39
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for allowing me to record this podcast on your grounds.
• 55:42
  SPEAKER_00: It was an awesome experience, and I will definitely be back.
• 55:45
  SPEAKER_00: That was my first time there, so it was all around really cool to get to experience that and and see your facility.
• 55:54
  SPEAKER_00: And thank you to all the listeners.
• 55:56
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, I really appreciate all the messages I get and your stories.
• 56:01
  SPEAKER_00: I I love that you know, this is building a community and we can come together and really share different experiences from all over the world.
• 56:12
  SPEAKER_00: So thank you.
• 56:13
  SPEAKER_00: I really, really appreciate you guys.
• 56:15
  SPEAKER_00: As always, get naked, be free, and be kind.
• 56:19
  SPEAKER_00: See ya, I'm gonna do it.