Latest / The Heart-Led Business Show / Prescribing Playlists: A Musical Cure with Judith Pinkerton

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Prescribing Playlists: A Musical Cure with Judith Pinkerton · The Heart-Led Business Show

• 0:01
  Speaker: Welcome to The Heart-Led Business Show, where compassion meets commerce and leaders lead with love.
• 0:09
  Speaker: Join your host, Tom Jackobs, as he delves into the insightful conversations with visionary business leaders who defy the status quo, putting humanity first and profit second.
• 0:20
  Speaker: From heartfelt strategies to inspiring stories, this podcast is your compass in the world of conscious capitalism.
• 0:29
  Speaker: So buckle up and let your heart guide your business journey.
• 0:36
  Tom Jackobs: Well, welcome heart-led friends.
• 0:38
  Tom Jackobs: Today we have the delightful Judith Pinkerton in the virtual studio today she's on a mission to turn frowns upside down and transform how we experience music.
• 0:49
  Tom Jackobs: With her heart-centered book, Thriving Through Adversity and the innovative Key2MEE.
• 0:54
  Tom Jackobs: Judith's harmonizing, happiness, healing, and hope like a maestro.
• 0:59
  Tom Jackobs: We'll dive into her journey of shaking up the mental health scene and spreading joy one prescriptive playlist at a time.
• 1:06
  Tom Jackobs: So tune in and let your heartstrings be strummed along.
• 1:10
  Tom Jackobs: Judith, welcome to the show.
• 1:13
  Judith Pinkerton: Ah, thank you very much.
• 1:15
  Judith Pinkerton: That is a, I've never had an introduction like that.
• 1:18
  Judith Pinkerton: I love it.
• 1:19
  Tom Jackobs: All right.
• 1:20
  Tom Jackobs: See the power of AI and the cleverness when you have a, when you have a really good prompt, you know you can get some good stuff out of it.
• 1:27
  Judith Pinkerton: You know that is really true because AI not is not the end-all
• 1:31
  Tom Jackobs: right?
• 1:31
  Judith Pinkerton: all depends on the user.
• 1:33
  Tom Jackobs: Yeah, Absolutely.
• 1:35
  Tom Jackobs: Cool.
• 1:36
  Tom Jackobs: So I'm really excited for today's conversation because I'm, I, I grew up around music all throughout my childhood, and it's always interesting to hear how other folks are using music to heal for other things because I know it's, it's such a powerful, medium and it's a lot of people just, you know, put the headphones in and listen to some tunes, but don't always realize.
• 1:59
  Tom Jackobs: What else we can use music for.
• 2:01
  Tom Jackobs: So I'm really excited to dive into that.
• 2:03
  Tom Jackobs: But of course, the first question I always ask is, what's your definition of a heart-led business?
• 2:10
  Judith Pinkerton: I think that for me, having established core values that strike my heart.
• 2:17
  Tom Jackobs: Hmm.
• 2:17
  Judith Pinkerton: Is what really helped to define and move the business forward in alignment with others that I choose to be in alignment with.
• 2:27
  Judith Pinkerton: So anybody that's on our staff has to sign this paper about what our core values are and actionable behaviors.
• 2:36
  Tom Jackobs: Oh, ooh.
• 2:37
  Judith Pinkerton: The core values define our business, and it's it's an acronym.
• 2:44
  Judith Pinkerton: Called HEALS.
• 2:48
  Judith Pinkerton: And each letter has a strong word that defines how we do business.
• 2:53
  Judith Pinkerton: And then there are actual behaviors underneath each of that.
• 2:57
  Judith Pinkerton: So then the word is created into a phrase that you can remember, and then there's actual behaviors for each one of those letters.
• 3:05
  Judith Pinkerton: So it's, and it took us like a nine month process with a coach.
• 3:10
  Judith Pinkerton: To come up with this.
• 3:11
  Judith Pinkerton: So it wasn't random.
• 3:12
  Judith Pinkerton: It was a long process.
• 3:14
  Judith Pinkerton: But I'm, I'm so happy we've had this together for probably about, 10 years, at least.
• 3:21
  Judith Pinkerton: Know what we need,
• 3:23
  Tom Jackobs: someone
• 3:23
  Judith Pinkerton: offered it to me and I, yes, I wanna do that.
• 3:26
  Judith Pinkerton: I wanna do that, because I've always believed in that phrase of having a heart-led business.
• 3:32
  Tom Jackobs: Hmm.
• 3:33
  Tom Jackobs: Yeah.
• 3:34
  Tom Jackobs: So do you mind sharing one of the core values that you guys came up with?
• 3:38
  Judith Pinkerton: Oh, certainly.
• 3:39
  Judith Pinkerton: Let's see here.
• 3:40
  Judith Pinkerton: I just happen to have them up, so I remember all of them.
• 3:44
  Judith Pinkerton: Let's see here.
• 3:44
  Judith Pinkerton: How about, like-hearted?
• 3:48
  Judith Pinkerton: So H-E-A-L is like-hearted.
• 3:53
  Judith Pinkerton: Like-heart synergistic connections.
• 3:57
  Tom Jackobs: Okay.
• 3:59
  Judith Pinkerton: And then the action behaviors would be purpose driven.
• 4:03
  Tom Jackobs: Okay.
• 4:04
  Judith Pinkerton: We ask, how can I be of service.
• 4:07
  Tom Jackobs: Hmm.
• 4:09
  Judith Pinkerton: Striving to be masterful in work and in conscious, action and feeling better after interactions.
• 4:19
  Tom Jackobs: Oh, I love that.
• 4:21
  Tom Jackobs: So you want both parties to feel.
• 4:23
  Judith Pinkerton: Mm-hmm.
• 4:24
  Tom Jackobs: Good feeling after every.
• 4:25
  Judith Pinkerton: Win-win, right?
• 4:26
  Judith Pinkerton: win-win.
• 4:26
  Tom Jackobs: Win-win.
• 4:26
  Tom Jackobs: Yeah.
• 4:27
  Tom Jackobs: Yeah.
• 4:28
  Tom Jackobs: Oh, that's great.
• 4:29
  Tom Jackobs: Yeah, listeners, you need to like it.
• 4:31
  Tom Jackobs: Take a page out of Judith's Playbook here and come up with those.
• 4:35
  Tom Jackobs: I, I think a, I think a lot of people have core values.
• 4:37
  Tom Jackobs: Like I, we have the core values in our company as well, but I think adding that actionable language is really key, and I'm gonna steal that from you.
• 4:48
  Tom Jackobs: Because it gives, you know, whoever's reading that, you know, you could have a core value that says, you know, continuous improvement, that's one of our core values.
• 4:58
  Tom Jackobs: But then the employees might not know like, what does that really mean for me and my job?
• 5:03
  Tom Jackobs: And you give them some examples, boom.
• 5:05
  Tom Jackobs: You got, you know, now it sits home.
• 5:08
  Tom Jackobs: Yeah.
• 5:08
  Tom Jackobs: I love that.
• 5:10
  Tom Jackobs: Yeah.
• 5:11
  Tom Jackobs: So how has that shaped your business over the last 10 years, do you think?
• 5:15
  Judith Pinkerton: Uh, know it, well, first of all, it's allowed me to align with people I, I don't make mistakes.
• 5:22
  Tom Jackobs: Hmm.
• 5:23
  Judith Pinkerton: You know, oops.
• 5:25
  Judith Pinkerton: Didn't mean for you to be a part of this mix.
• 5:29
  Judith Pinkerton: You know?
• 5:30
  Tom Jackobs: Yeah.
• 5:30
  Judith Pinkerton: There could be a lot of that where people have, other motivations for wanting to align with you.
• 5:35
  Judith Pinkerton: And so when you really come from that position of this, this is what is meaningful.
• 5:41
  Judith Pinkerton: Yeah.
• 5:42
  Judith Pinkerton: It's, it's interesting.
• 5:44
  Tom Jackobs: Hmm.
• 5:45
  Tom Jackobs: Yeah.
• 5:45
  Judith Pinkerton: And, and I have learned a lot.
• 5:48
  Judith Pinkerton: I have learned a lot through my own relationships with people and what was acceptable, not acceptable, and how I maybe could have done something differently.
• 5:56
  Judith Pinkerton: So it's, it's definitely a growing experience, you know, as you continue to measure yourself.
• 6:02
  Judith Pinkerton: It's what you've defined as being what you need to do.
• 6:05
  Judith Pinkerton: So I, I'm not saying that I'm perfect.
• 6:07
  Tom Jackobs: Right.
• 6:08
  Tom Jackobs: But you have the playbook know, which is nice.
• 6:11
  Judith Pinkerton: Yeah.
• 6:11
  Judith Pinkerton: And I, and I definitely, play by it.
• 6:14
  Tom Jackobs: Nice.
• 6:16
  Tom Jackobs: So tell us a little bit about your business and, and what makes it heart-led.
• 6:20
  Judith Pinkerton: Oh well.
• 6:22
  Judith Pinkerton: I've, a lot of personal experiences.
• 6:24
  Judith Pinkerton: So as a music therapist, everything we do as a music therapist is led by the heart, right?
• 6:29
  Judith Pinkerton: I mean, yes, you have to have research knowledge and, schooling and, you know, there's the minimum four year degree with a six month internship.
• 6:38
  Judith Pinkerton: Then you gotta pass the national exam, and then you have to get a license in 19 states.
• 6:43
  Judith Pinkerton: I had the honor of receiving the very first music therapy license in the United States.
• 6:48
  Judith Pinkerton: Uh, Nevada became the first state that actually issued, licenses.
• 6:53
  Tom Jackobs: Oh wow.
• 6:53
  Tom Jackobs: Oh wow.
• 6:53
  Judith Pinkerton: So I'm, I'm very aware of, you know, the, the business side and the ethical side and, everything that comes with holding a license in mental health and behavioral health and all those other areas.
• 7:08
  Judith Pinkerton: And so, with that when I go into a session and, you know, it could be public, public presentation, it could be a hospital bedside, it could be a group with, 20 addicts.
• 7:27
  Tom Jackobs: Hmm.
• 7:28
  Judith Pinkerton: It could be anytime I go into a situation, it doesn't matter where I'm at.
• 7:34
  Judith Pinkerton: The focus is always, how can I connect with their heart?
• 7:38
  Tom Jackobs: Oh, nice.
• 7:39
  Judith Pinkerton: How can I bring that out?
• 7:42
  Judith Pinkerton: know that it is there, there might be a lot of muck that covers it up.
• 7:46
  Judith Pinkerton: but I'm going for it.
• 7:47
  Tom Jackobs: Yeah.
• 7:48
  Judith Pinkerton: And that's what I'm shooting for, is to grow with that connection of that heart.
• 7:55
  Tom Jackobs: Nice.
• 7:55
  Tom Jackobs: And so how does the, the music therapy play into that?
• 7:59
  Judith Pinkerton: Well, my business honors all genres.
• 8:03
  Tom Jackobs: Mm-hmm.
• 8:04
  Judith Pinkerton: All genres.
• 8:07
  Tom Jackobs: All genres.
• 8:07
  Judith Pinkerton: Yeah,
• 8:08
  Tom Jackobs: Okay.
• 8:08
  Judith Pinkerton: All genres.
• 8:10
  Judith Pinkerton: And so typically I wanna start with where you're at.
• 8:15
  Judith Pinkerton: You know, what do you like,
• 8:17
  Tom Jackobs: Hmm.
• 8:17
  Judith Pinkerton: what do you wanna listen to right now?
• 8:18
  Tom Jackobs: Yeah.
• 8:19
  Judith Pinkerton: And we do, I don't care what it is we do.
• 8:22
  Judith Pinkerton: And, and then I have a sequence of intuitive questions that come up, that connect to why that piece of music and it honors, my music therapy training.
• 8:35
  Judith Pinkerton: It's very intuitive.
• 8:37
  Judith Pinkerton: There are times when I've had to make instantaneous decisions, to save the life of somebody.
• 8:44
  Tom Jackobs: Hmm.
• 8:44
  Judith Pinkerton: And it worked fortunately.
• 8:46
  Tom Jackobs: Yeah.
• 8:47
  Tom Jackobs: Yeah.
• 8:47
  Judith Pinkerton: But you know, when, when you're working bedside, especially in hospice, you have to realize that, you know, end of life is a definite for each one of us,
• 8:55
  Tom Jackobs: Mm-hmm.
• 8:56
  Judith Pinkerton: it's a matter of timing.
• 8:58
  Judith Pinkerton: And so if the timing is supposed to be, now, I am here for you and I will walk it with you, only up to the gate.
• 9:04
  Judith Pinkerton: I'm not going through the gate with you.
• 9:07
  Judith Pinkerton: But I'm there for you.
• 9:08
  Judith Pinkerton: And so it's, it also requires that you have the stamina and the sustenance to be able to go that distance.
• 9:16
  Tom Jackobs: Hmm.
• 9:17
  Judith Pinkerton: And to be okay with that.
• 9:19
  Judith Pinkerton: so I have a story, with my father who, found himself in another state in ICU, within 12 hours, of being taken to the hospital.
• 9:30
  Judith Pinkerton: And within a few hours after that, we were told that if he did not get intubated, he would, be having his last breath.
• 9:36
  Judith Pinkerton: Well, the family decided that he needed to be in total control rather than being intubated because the likelihood of becoming off the intubation is not likely.
• 9:47
  Judith Pinkerton: And so decided that he needed to be in control.
• 9:50
  Judith Pinkerton: So he was not intubated.
• 9:52
  Judith Pinkerton: So they were just, the medical team then was just like, okay, we're just gonna make him comfortable until he takes his last breath.
• 9:59
  Judith Pinkerton: So I, we had traveled to this state, my mother and my father and I to attend my mother sister's funeral.
• 10:08
  Judith Pinkerton: So I had my music therapy tools with me, at that time it was, violin sheet music and a Bose speaker and my cell phone, my handy do cell phone.
• 10:20
  Judith Pinkerton: I had those, I always take them with me, especially when I'm going into a medical situation.
• 10:25
  Judith Pinkerton: So I had him handy, and I noticed that he was having difficulty breathing and, excuse me, it's, even though it's a couple years,
• 10:33
  Tom Jackobs: I know.
• 10:34
  Judith Pinkerton: I still find myself going into that space.
• 10:35
  Judith Pinkerton: So forgive me if I start getting a little emotional about it.
• 10:38
  Judith Pinkerton: But,
• 10:39
  Tom Jackobs: I totally get it.
• 10:40
  Judith Pinkerton: I was playing a couple pieces for him that, I knew that he loved, so I knew the patient really well,
• 10:46
  Tom Jackobs: Yes.
• 10:46
  Judith Pinkerton: So that's number one is the music therapist is needing to know as much information as possible about this patient to deliver.
• 10:53
  Judith Pinkerton: You know, appropriate music therapy.
• 10:56
  Judith Pinkerton: So I knew him really well.
• 10:57
  Judith Pinkerton: And so I'm playing on violin'cause he was my violin teacher.
• 11:00
  Judith Pinkerton: He was my conductor in the symphony.
• 11:01
  Judith Pinkerton: I mean, he, we were everything together as I was growing up, in music.
• 11:06
  Judith Pinkerton: And so I'm playing a couple tunes, you know, that I know that he loves, and I noticed that he was calming down and, the medic stepped up to the bed and said, okay, let's all gather around.
• 11:18
  Judith Pinkerton: He's about ready to take his last breath.
• 11:20
  Judith Pinkerton: And there was something inside me that, that erupted.
• 11:25
  Judith Pinkerton: It said, no more soothing music for you.
• 11:28
  Judith Pinkerton: We have to get some energizing stuff going on here.
• 11:30
  Judith Pinkerton: So I whipped out my cell phone.
• 11:32
  Judith Pinkerton: I pushed play.
• 11:33
  Judith Pinkerton: And fortunately I know my cell phone really well, so I could find the music.
• 11:36
  Judith Pinkerton: Instantly pushed, play on it.
• 11:38
  Judith Pinkerton: Had the room filled with a chamber symphony.
• 11:42
  Judith Pinkerton: I opened up the sheet music at his feet.
• 11:45
  Judith Pinkerton: With the Bose speaker on of course.
• 11:47
  Judith Pinkerton: And, started wailing violin with the Bach double violin concerto.
• 11:53
  Judith Pinkerton: So I'm watching his violin.
• 11:55
  Tom Jackobs: I love that one.
• 11:56
  Judith Pinkerton: Right?
• 11:56
  Tom Jackobs: Yes.
• 11:57
  Judith Pinkerton: I mean, he's, he's played it.
• 11:58
  Judith Pinkerton: I played it.
• 11:59
  Judith Pinkerton: We played it in concert with others.
• 12:01
  Judith Pinkerton: I mean, it's just like a typical thing, right?
• 12:03
  Judith Pinkerton: Right.
• 12:04
  Judith Pinkerton: so I'm playing the first movement, at his feet and I'm watching the vitals and I'm, I'm not seeing much change.
• 12:12
  Judith Pinkerton: So I get to the second movement and I skip it because it's soothing.
• 12:16
  Judith Pinkerton: I moved to the, the third movement, which is even more robust and I hadn't played for a while, so I'm like, okay, put your big girls pants on on this one you're gonna have to do it at the tempo that this chamber symphony's doing it'cause you do not have a choice.
• 12:32
  Judith Pinkerton: So, tricky page turns and, you know, I'm just, it's, it's,
• 12:36
  Tom Jackobs: Wow.
• 12:36
  Judith Pinkerton: a cannon so you're always not starting with everybody else.
• 12:40
  Judith Pinkerton: So you're always like a beat and a half or two beats off.
• 12:43
  Judith Pinkerton: So we got to the end of the piece.
• 12:46
  Judith Pinkerton: We being the chamber symphony on the, on my cell phone and me.
• 12:50
  Judith Pinkerton: And, I'm so engrossed, just to make sure I'm playing it correctly and not messing up, that I'm really not noticing him much.
• 13:00
  Judith Pinkerton: But I did notice, as we got to the end of the piece that he started conducting me.
• 13:06
  Tom Jackobs: Really?
• 13:07
  Tom Jackobs: Wow.
• 13:08
  Judith Pinkerton: He was still unresponsive.
• 13:10
  Judith Pinkerton: But he was conducting me.
• 13:12
  Tom Jackobs: Like he was making the movements.
• 13:14
  Judith Pinkerton: Oh yeah, he was conducting me.
• 13:16
  Judith Pinkerton: And we got to the last note.
• 13:18
  Judith Pinkerton: We got to the last note, and he just wouldn't let me stop.
• 13:22
  Judith Pinkerton: So then I'm like joking with him, you know?
• 13:25
  Judith Pinkerton: It's like, seriously, dad, you're not gonna let me play in the last note.
• 13:30
  Judith Pinkerton: At that point, I realized that I had an audience, the entire medical team had entered the room.
• 13:37
  Judith Pinkerton: During that last part, and I looked over at them after I finished playing.
• 13:42
  Judith Pinkerton: And their mouths were wide open and stunned silence.
• 13:46
  Tom Jackobs: Yeah.
• 13:46
  Judith Pinkerton: He's alive today, two and a half years later.
• 13:49
  Tom Jackobs: Oh my gosh.
• 13:50
  Judith Pinkerton: A tender age of 94.
• 13:53
  Tom Jackobs: Oh my gosh.
• 13:54
  Tom Jackobs: Wow.
• 13:56
  Tom Jackobs: That's amazing.
• 13:58
  Tom Jackobs: Wow, that's more powerful.
• 14:01
  Judith Pinkerton: I was in total release too.
• 14:03
  Judith Pinkerton: It's like, okay, dad, if this is your time to go, I'm, I'm here for you.
• 14:06
  Judith Pinkerton: But there was something that just erupted inside.
• 14:10
  Tom Jackobs: Yeah.
• 14:12
  Tom Jackobs: Wow.
• 14:14
  Tom Jackobs: That's amazing.
• 14:15
  Tom Jackobs: Yeah.
• 14:15
  Tom Jackobs: Wow.
• 14:16
  Judith Pinkerton: Imagine, imagine Tom, you know, with this heart-led business.
• 14:21
  Judith Pinkerton: Taking my intuitive knowledge and my practice of decades and putting it into do it yourself tools for others to use.
• 14:30
  Tom Jackobs: Mm-hmm.
• 14:31
  Tom Jackobs: Yeah.
• 14:33
  Tom Jackobs: And that, that's the app.
• 14:35
  Judith Pinkerton: That's the app.
• 14:36
  Judith Pinkerton: It, it has a version 2.0 that we're working on right now, that will allow the user to actually create their own prescriptive playlist in the app and track on it.
• 14:46
  Judith Pinkerton: lots of tutorials.
• 14:47
  Judith Pinkerton: I mean it's intense.
• 14:49
  Tom Jackobs: Yeah.
• 14:50
  Judith Pinkerton: You know, what, what you'll be able to do in it.
• 14:53
  Judith Pinkerton: Also linking it to our network of music for life specialists, if you get into a, a tight situation where you're not sure what to do, so it's, it's a major project more than I've ever done, but the delivery will scale the opportunity for people to utilize the music for like, music medicine protocol in their pocket.
• 15:17
  Tom Jackobs: Hmm.
• 15:18
  Judith Pinkerton: No matter where they at.
• 15:18
  Tom Jackobs: That, that is so great and, and so needed.
• 15:21
  Tom Jackobs: You know, we, we think about, you know, sound in general, you know, and music specifically, I don't think us as laypeople like me, not you, but me as, as a layperson, you know, growing up around music, you know, understand I played violin as well.
• 15:37
  Tom Jackobs: My brothers we had a little string trio.
• 15:40
  Judith Pinkerton: Yay.
• 15:41
  Judith Pinkerton: I love that.
• 15:42
  Tom Jackobs: Yeah, two violins and a cello.
• 15:45
  Tom Jackobs: And it was, it was, it was great.
• 15:47
  Tom Jackobs: Um, that one violin turned into a viola.
• 15:50
  Tom Jackobs: We, we won't hold that against him, uh, but, but he, he's been playing for the Cleveland Orchestra for 25 years, so I guess he's pretty good, so.
• 15:59
  Judith Pinkerton: Yes.
• 16:00
  Tom Jackobs: But you know.
• 16:02
  Tom Jackobs: And I've seen research that, you know, sound and, you know, sometimes when I wanna get into that, really concentrated, zone, I'll put like 40 hertz music on or some just kind of white noise, but it seems to calm me down.
• 16:15
  Tom Jackobs: What's the science behind that?
• 16:18
  Tom Jackobs: And, you know, listening to certain frequencies versus listening to classical, EDM, you know, hard rock, you know, you know, rap music.
• 16:30
  Tom Jackobs: Like what does that do to our brains, that allow us to heal and, and concentrate?
• 16:36
  Judith Pinkerton: There is still a lot of research that needs to be done on actual frequency.
• 16:42
  Tom Jackobs: Yeah.
• 16:43
  Judith Pinkerton: In our trainings, we go into the 10 music elements.
• 16:47
  Judith Pinkerton: Pitch is one of 10.
• 16:49
  Tom Jackobs: Ah.
• 16:50
  Judith Pinkerton: Pitch relates to frequency.
• 16:52
  Tom Jackobs: Yeah.
• 16:53
  Judith Pinkerton: And so it's, it's complex.
• 16:57
  Judith Pinkerton: Right now I am finishing up a book with Daniel Levitin.
• 17:02
  Judith Pinkerton: I heard there was a secret chord, I think is the name of it.
• 17:06
  Judith Pinkerton: Fabulous book.
• 17:07
  Judith Pinkerton: I recommend it.
• 17:08
  Judith Pinkerton: he, it just came out, I don't know, a year ago.
• 17:12
  Judith Pinkerton: he's a medical doctor
• 17:14
  Tom Jackobs: Mm.
• 17:14
  Judith Pinkerton: And a musician.
• 17:16
  Judith Pinkerton: And he is able to bridge.
• 17:19
  Judith Pinkerton: And he is a researcher.
• 17:21
  Tom Jackobs: Nice.
• 17:22
  Judith Pinkerton: He's got a lot of research that's already been done, that he has done, and he pairs with, major artists.
• 17:28
  Judith Pinkerton: I mean, it's, amazing what he's doing.
• 17:32
  Judith Pinkerton: And he's seeing the need for what I do, and so I'm gonna be connecting with him.
• 17:39
  Tom Jackobs: Good.
• 17:40
  Judith Pinkerton: He's recognizing that the music therapist profession is small.
• 17:47
  Judith Pinkerton: There's only 10,000 of us in the United States.
• 17:50
  Tom Jackobs: Yeah.
• 17:50
  Judith Pinkerton: And there is a 0.3% capability of music therapists to disrupt the mental health crisis.
• 17:59
  Judith Pinkerton: I'm in the business of training.
• 18:02
  Judith Pinkerton: Mental health providers and I have expanded that definition beyond certified and licensed health and medical professionals to also include, educators, caregivers, musicians, and all of their clients and students and loved ones.
• 18:24
  Judith Pinkerton: So it's, it's a huge effort that's kind of like a B2B2C.
• 18:30
  Tom Jackobs: Yeah.
• 18:30
  Judith Pinkerton: It's business to business.
• 18:31
  Judith Pinkerton: Our business to your business as a practitioner, no matter what your business is because music pervades everything.
• 18:40
  Judith Pinkerton: And then who do you serve and how can you be trained to be able to share this with them?
• 18:47
  Judith Pinkerton: And so the app is gonna totally streamline that, but we have certification trainings that help people.
• 18:52
  Judith Pinkerton: So with that it is a real careful journey, and making sure that people understand the difference between our music medicine protocol and music therapy.
• 19:03
  Judith Pinkerton: Music therapy is a music therapist that is, attending to a patient or a client and providing music therapy has, and is doing that because they're board certified.
• 19:17
  Judith Pinkerton: And or licensed in a state if it's required.
• 19:21
  Judith Pinkerton: So very careful in making sure that our trained certificates understand the difference.
• 19:27
  Judith Pinkerton: They are not doing music therapy.
• 19:29
  Judith Pinkerton: They're utilizing music therapy based strategies and solutions.
• 19:35
  Tom Jackobs: Yeah.
• 19:36
  Tom Jackobs: That's great.
• 19:36
  Tom Jackobs: So kinda shifting gears a little bit towards the business side,'cause this is the heart-led business show.
• 19:43
  Tom Jackobs: Um, you know, you, how long have you been in business?
• 19:46
  Judith Pinkerton: Well, I've been in business decades, I've been self-employed decades.
• 19:50
  Judith Pinkerton: And I didn't start off in music therapy.
• 19:52
  Judith Pinkerton: That was an accident.
• 19:54
  Judith Pinkerton: It was well-meaning and it was intended, and it was the purpose and all that I can see the thread of how that threads through your life, right?
• 20:00
  Judith Pinkerton: You notice where you didn't make a left turn, you made a right one instead.
• 20:03
  Judith Pinkerton: Oh, that was a good decision.
• 20:04
  Judith Pinkerton: Although that's not what I was intending.
• 20:07
  Tom Jackobs: So being in business for, you know, as long as you have, I'm sure you've like had those ups and downs in business, how do you balance making a profit and still being heart-led at the same time?
• 20:21
  Judith Pinkerton: I would have those close to me, particularly my husband who would say, yeah, you got too much heart.
• 20:26
  Judith Pinkerton: We need more money.
• 20:27
  Tom Jackobs: Yeah.
• 20:28
  Tom Jackobs: Right.
• 20:28
  Tom Jackobs: Heart doesn't pay the bills all the time by itself.
• 20:32
  Judith Pinkerton: True.
• 20:33
  Judith Pinkerton: Yeah.
• 20:33
  Judith Pinkerton: And so that then is the, challenge.
• 20:37
  Judith Pinkerton: I have to say that I have a team right now that is pretty, pretty amazing.
• 20:45
  Judith Pinkerton: it's a core team my right hand is a retired military colonel
• 20:52
  Tom Jackobs: Oh my gosh.
• 20:53
  Tom Jackobs: Okay.
• 20:54
  Tom Jackobs: Process, process, process.
• 20:56
  Tom Jackobs: Discipline.
• 20:56
  Tom Jackobs: Yeah.
• 20:57
  Judith Pinkerton: So military intelligence,
• 21:00
  Tom Jackobs: Okay.
• 21:01
  Judith Pinkerton: Entrepreneurial intelligence, and then our CTO.
• 21:06
  Judith Pinkerton: Who is the co-author of the, patent, the app patent, and our team lead for our, app team, I think is kind of the balance of both of us.
• 21:18
  Judith Pinkerton: And fortunately, we, I've known, my COO, who's, the retired colonel and psychologist.
• 21:26
  Tom Jackobs: Okay.
• 21:27
  Tom Jackobs: Wow.
• 21:27
  Judith Pinkerton: and also trained as a music medicine clinical specialist.
• 21:30
  Judith Pinkerton: we've known each other for a couple decades.
• 21:32
  Judith Pinkerton: We met at an Air Force base, in Las Vegas, Nellis Air Force Base, and did some work together and, and so we followed each other over the decades.
• 21:41
  Judith Pinkerton: And then when he retired, I went, I'm still here.
• 21:45
  Judith Pinkerton: I'm so grateful for his support, because so opposite, you know?
• 21:51
  Judith Pinkerton: So when you're, when you're in business, you have to recognize somebody else's heart when it comes to those, Tasks that you either do not do well or do well.
• 22:03
  Judith Pinkerton: And you are loving other person gracefully say, you do this really well.
• 22:08
  Judith Pinkerton: I'm gonna step aside here, let you take over.
• 22:11
  Judith Pinkerton: And we have been able to understand immediately that about each other.
• 22:17
  Judith Pinkerton: There are so many different systems that you can utilize in finding out more about someone else's heart.
• 22:25
  Tom Jackobs: Yes.
• 22:26
  Judith Pinkerton: And so I use the Kolbe K-O-L-B-E.
• 22:29
  Judith Pinkerton: Yeah.
• 22:29
  Judith Pinkerton: And it, it just, it's really good for team building and, and understanding, you know what, somebody's where somebody's strengths lie.
• 22:38
  Tom Jackobs: Yeah.
• 22:38
  Tom Jackobs: Yeah, I like that one.
• 22:39
  Tom Jackobs: So, you know, when, when it does come to the, like the business side or the finance side of the business, then like, I'm sure there's been times where you had to make a decision whether to you know, accept a client or, or do some work that doesn't really fit your heart, but you know, you're short on cash and it's just, how do, how do you justify or how do you make those hard decisions when like, you know, it's, it's, you need the, you need the money, but it's not aligned with your heart.
• 23:13
  Judith Pinkerton: Right.
• 23:14
  Judith Pinkerton: And so I stretch.
• 23:16
  Tom Jackobs: Hmm.
• 23:17
  Judith Pinkerton: I mean, the heart is big.
• 23:19
  Tom Jackobs: Yeah.
• 23:20
  Judith Pinkerton: The heart is big, and there is a way that you can find some alignment there, you know something, I don't wanna use the, the devil word here.
• 23:30
  Judith Pinkerton: I mean, you know, I do have, do have a line that I don't cross.
• 23:35
  Tom Jackobs: Right.
• 23:36
  Tom Jackobs: Yeah.
• 23:36
  Tom Jackobs: Yeah.
• 23:37
  Judith Pinkerton: if, if I can stretch my heart, you know, I mean, there's been populations when I first started, my nonprofit decades ago, where I was like, oh, you know in order to get that funding that I need to grow the business.
• 23:50
  Judith Pinkerton: Okay, I'll start serving autism.
• 23:52
  Judith Pinkerton: Okay I'll start serving this particular state agency.
• 23:58
  Judith Pinkerton: I found a way to love doing it.
• 24:02
  Tom Jackobs: Hmm.
• 24:03
  Judith Pinkerton: You know, the people, the people have hearts.
• 24:05
  Judith Pinkerton: So connect with their hearts and, and make something that, is desired.
• 24:12
  Judith Pinkerton: So, yeah, it's, it's stretching yourself.
• 24:16
  Tom Jackobs: Yeah.
• 24:16
  Judith Pinkerton: And realizing that everybody has a heart.
• 24:18
  Judith Pinkerton: You know, find it, find it, and find out how you connect with it.
• 24:22
  Tom Jackobs: Yeah, true.
• 24:23
  Tom Jackobs: Ah, that's great.
• 24:24
  Tom Jackobs: So a couple words of advice that I'm hearing is find a good team that's gonna balance you out.
• 24:30
  Tom Jackobs: So the things, and, and you know, if you're giving away everything, find somebody that's a little bit tighter up with a purse, purse strings to balance that out.
• 24:39
  Tom Jackobs: And then, um, you know, be flexible.
• 24:43
  Tom Jackobs: And find the good that you can still do and make the money that you need to make to serve more people, right?
• 24:50
  Judith Pinkerton: Mm-hmm.
• 24:50
  Tom Jackobs: If you don't have the money available to you, how are you able to serve the people?
• 24:55
  Judith Pinkerton: Mm-hmm.
• 24:56
  Tom Jackobs: Right?
• 24:57
  Judith Pinkerton: Exactly.
• 24:58
  Tom Jackobs: Cool.
• 24:58
  Tom Jackobs: Yeah.
• 25:00
  Tom Jackobs: Well, cool.
• 25:00
  Tom Jackobs: Any other words of advice that you'd give to our listeners who might be struggling with wanting to have a heart-led business but not quite sure if it might be the right approach for them?
• 25:11
  Tom Jackobs: If there's they, they're too much on the giving side and not so much on the business side.
• 25:17
  Judith Pinkerton: you definitely need to attract to you people that align with your purpose, your business purpose.
• 25:28
  Tom Jackobs: Mm-hmm.
• 25:30
  Judith Pinkerton: Then look for those that you don't immediately resonate with because you may not have your strengths, and you tend not to resonate with those that don't have your strengths.
• 25:45
  Judith Pinkerton: It's like, ooh, you know, you, you feel good.
• 25:48
  Judith Pinkerton: You look like me.
• 25:49
  Judith Pinkerton: You know, you act like me.
• 25:50
  Judith Pinkerton: You know, I love being with you and somebody that's opposite you.
• 25:55
  Judith Pinkerton: You know, you may not talk the same language,
• 25:58
  Tom Jackobs: Right.
• 25:59
  Judith Pinkerton: I mean still English or whatever language, but you just don't understand each other.
• 26:04
  Judith Pinkerton: I remember with my daughter, I mean, this experience where, I don't know, it just seemed like everything that came outta my mouth was Greek to her and everything, you know, it was just really difficult.
• 26:15
  Judith Pinkerton: Even though I wanted to connect with her heart, you know, it just, man.
• 26:20
  Judith Pinkerton: Ah.
• 26:21
  Judith Pinkerton: Let's not go there.
• 26:24
  Judith Pinkerton: The same thing in business, right?
• 26:25
  Judith Pinkerton: Where,
• 26:26
  Tom Jackobs: Yeah.
• 26:26
  Tom Jackobs: We'll have customers or employees, yeah.
• 26:29
  Judith Pinkerton: right?
• 26:29
  Judith Pinkerton: It could be somebody that you just don't identify with.
• 26:32
  Judith Pinkerton: They just like speak Greek to you, and you're just trying to find the right words.
• 26:37
  Judith Pinkerton: So you need a teammate.
• 26:38
  Judith Pinkerton: That speaks that language, you know, so you to have a, have a good team, you cannot all be the same personality, same makeup.
• 26:48
  Judith Pinkerton: You have to have opposites because a business requires all of that to be successful.
• 26:53
  Tom Jackobs: Yeah.
• 26:53
  Tom Jackobs: Oh, that, that's really great advice and a good reminder as well for a lot of entrepreneurs.
• 26:59
  Tom Jackobs: Yeah.
• 26:59
  Tom Jackobs: Having that, that diversity of thought and just, you know, different life experiences as well is so important to draw from.
• 27:08
  Tom Jackobs: Yeah.
• 27:09
  Tom Jackobs: I couldn't imagine a business with all Toms running around.
• 27:12
  Tom Jackobs: That would just be a nightmare, I think.
• 27:14
  Judith Pinkerton: I love the way you put that.
• 27:15
  Judith Pinkerton: I mean, all Judith's.
• 27:18
  Judith Pinkerton: Exactly.
• 27:19
  Judith Pinkerton: No, not that you only need one, Tom, because you do it really well.
• 27:24
  Tom Jackobs: Yeah, exactly.
• 27:25
  Tom Jackobs: It'd be all vision and no execution at the end of the day.
• 27:30
  Judith Pinkerton: Yeah.
• 27:31
  Tom Jackobs: For me anyway.
• 27:32
  Tom Jackobs: Well, cool.
• 27:33
  Tom Jackobs: Well, Judith, this has, been just a fascinating conversation and, you know, really eye-opening on the music therapy side as well for me, and how you've handled business for as long as you have.
• 27:43
  Tom Jackobs: So thank you so much for coming onto the show.
• 27:46
  Tom Jackobs: How can people learn more about you and what you are doing for the, for the health?
• 27:53
  Tom Jackobs: for the mental health space?
• 27:55
  Judith Pinkerton: Everything that we offer is at one website.
• 27:59
  Judith Pinkerton: And it connects to our web of offerings.
• 28:02
  Judith Pinkerton: so you simply go to themusic4life.com.
• 28:18
  Tom Jackobs: The music for Life.
• 28:19
  Tom Jackobs: Awesome.
• 28:20
  Judith Pinkerton: Yes.
• 28:20
  Judith Pinkerton: We even have a foundation now, so we've got actually a trifecta, three companies that support the Music for Life national brand.
• 28:29
  Judith Pinkerton: So we have a foundation now.
• 28:31
  Tom Jackobs: Oh, nice.
• 28:32
  Judith Pinkerton: And we have a, an insurance company that has come to us and said, we want what you do.
• 28:39
  Tom Jackobs: Hmm.
• 28:39
  Judith Pinkerton: I'm glad for the timing.
• 28:41
  Judith Pinkerton: But you know, Tom, it's so hard because, you know, I hate to say that we're capitalizing on the bad times, but people are struggling.
• 28:50
  Tom Jackobs: Yep.
• 28:51
  Judith Pinkerton: I've been doing this for decades when people didn't need me because they were doing, they were fine.
• 28:55
  Judith Pinkerton: I don't, you know, why do I need that?
• 28:57
  Judith Pinkerton: now they're like, oh, we, we really need this because we need to be able to shift our focus.
• 29:03
  Judith Pinkerton: We need to be focused, we need to be happier, we need to release struggles, you know, more effectively.
• 29:09
  Tom Jackobs: Yeah.
• 29:10
  Judith Pinkerton: That's how they can get in touch with us and I'm absolutely available for free consults.
• 29:14
  Judith Pinkerton: just get on the contact button.
• 29:17
  Judith Pinkerton: Or actually it's a, it's a free consultation at the top of the website.
• 29:21
  Judith Pinkerton: And they can schedule time with me and we can do a 25 minute or whatever they need assistance and support with.
• 29:28
  Judith Pinkerton: we have so much to offer.
• 29:29
  Judith Pinkerton: Sometimes it's complicated.
• 29:30
  Judith Pinkerton: It's like, I don't know where to start.
• 29:32
  Judith Pinkerton: What do you recommend?
• 29:33
  Tom Jackobs: Nice.
• 29:34
  Tom Jackobs: What a great resource.
• 29:35
  Judith Pinkerton: We also has some freebies.
• 29:36
  Tom Jackobs: Yeah.
• 29:37
  Judith Pinkerton: Some freebies to give away, so I know you're going to, put a link for a gift.
• 29:41
  Judith Pinkerton: so for those that are having sleeping problems, we have found a particular playlist to, work well happens to be my solo violin music.
• 29:51
  Judith Pinkerton: this particular solo violin music grew out of my experience, my initial experience where replaced, high blood pressure medication in a hospital post back surgery.
• 30:01
  Tom Jackobs: Oh wow.
• 30:02
  Judith Pinkerton: It was very calming.
• 30:04
  Tom Jackobs: Yeah.
• 30:04
  Judith Pinkerton: For that person.
• 30:05
  Judith Pinkerton: And so that's my gift.
• 30:07
  Judith Pinkerton: it's a 52 minute, 33 pieces of me playing classical solo violin.
• 30:13
  Judith Pinkerton: you cannot tell.
• 30:14
  Judith Pinkerton: I even get confused, Tom and what piece I'm on'cause I've put'em together.
• 30:18
  Judith Pinkerton: So well, they go right from one to the next.
• 30:20
  Tom Jackobs: Oh wow.
• 30:21
  Judith Pinkerton: By the end of 52 minutes you may be asleep.
• 30:24
  Judith Pinkerton: so we have that gift for people.
• 30:26
  Judith Pinkerton: and then we have a free quiz, so you've had that link as well for them.
• 30:31
  Tom Jackobs: Yep.
• 30:31
  Judith Pinkerton: The quiz is, could your music taste reveal your inner strengths?
• 30:37
  Tom Jackobs: Mm.
• 30:38
  Tom Jackobs: And what superpowers you might have.
• 30:40
  Tom Jackobs: Yeah.
• 30:40
  Tom Jackobs: No, that's great.
• 30:41
  Judith Pinkerton: Uh, It's exactly.
• 30:43
  Tom Jackobs: I'm gonna download, the music playlist for sure, and take that quiz so, so I can go to go to go to sleep tonight, listening to some solo violin music.
• 30:53
  Judith Pinkerton: Ah, yes.
• 30:54
  Tom Jackobs: That'd be very nice.
• 30:55
  Tom Jackobs: Yeah.
• 30:56
  Judith Pinkerton: Thank you.
• 30:56
  Tom Jackobs: Very cool.
• 30:57
  Tom Jackobs: Well, Judith thank you again for coming onto the show and sharing your wisdom and insights with the, with the audience.
• 31:03
  Tom Jackobs: I really do appreciate you.
• 31:05
  Judith Pinkerton: Thank you so much.
• 31:06
  Judith Pinkerton: I love what you are doing, Tom.
• 31:08
  Judith Pinkerton: Keep, keep trucking because people need this kind of show in their life every day.
• 31:14
  Tom Jackobs: Absolutely.
• 31:14
  Tom Jackobs: Yeah.
• 31:15
  Tom Jackobs: Thank you for that.
• 31:16
  Tom Jackobs: And thank you listeners for watching or listening to the show today.
• 31:20
  Tom Jackobs: We really do appreciate it.
• 31:21
  Tom Jackobs: Make sure that you're checking out everything that Judith is doing, and we're gonna provide all of those links down in the show notes.
• 31:27
  Tom Jackobs: So make sure you go down into the show notes, check that out.
• 31:30
  Tom Jackobs: And while you're down there, you might see a rating and review button if you could do us a favor and give the show a rating review that just helps spread the word about the Heart-Led Business Show and helps more people, you know, get the, they get the advice that they need so that they can start a heart-led business and really serve more people.
• 31:48
  Tom Jackobs: So, until next time, lead with your heart.
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: You've been listening to The Heart-Led Business Show, hosted by Tom Jackobs.
• 31:57
  Speaker 2: Join us next time for another inspiring journey into the heart of business.