Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Jussie Smollett: Reality Test, True Character Under Fire?

Transcript

Jussie Smollett: Reality Test, True Character Under Fire? · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:00
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Oh My Stars, does it
0:11
Speaker 1: never end with this poser? This felon? Oh My Stars.
0:19
Speaker 1: Jesse Smollett, remember him, the race hoaxer who claimed he
0:27
Speaker 1: was attacked because he is black and gay and when
0:30
Speaker 1: police arrived at his luxury apartment, he still had a
0:34
Speaker 1: rope around his neck. It was all a lie. Oh
0:39
Speaker 1: My Stars. He's getting rewarded. Special Forces, the World's Toughest
0:45
Speaker 1: Test unveils its celebrity contestants competing in the fourth season
0:53
Speaker 1: of the Quasi military training reality show. It's premiering on
0:58
Speaker 1: Fox and Hulu, and fans are sick at the inclusion
1:04
Speaker 1: of the hate crime hoaxer Jesse Smollette. Oh My Stars,
1:11
Speaker 1: with Smollette wise cracking on Instagram. It was at this
1:17
Speaker 1: moment I said I should have just done the masked singer. Well, okay,
1:24
Speaker 1: Ike say quite often, I've seen it all, but now
1:27
Speaker 1: I really have seen it all. I mean to see, Grace,
1:30
Speaker 1: this is Crime Stories. I want to thank you for
1:33
Speaker 1: being with us. The disgraced race hoaxer swore he was
1:40
Speaker 1: attacked by two MAGA supporters who actually turned out to
1:45
Speaker 1: be his personal trainers. The Osendario brothers, they swear under oath.
1:52
Speaker 1: He hired them to pour bleach on him and put
1:56
Speaker 1: a noose around his neck to both for his celebrity
2:01
Speaker 1: profile and get a raise. Remember, he was a star
2:05
Speaker 1: of the hit series Empire that came crashing down after
2:09
Speaker 1: he pulled off this stunt. Let me jog your recollection.
2:14
Speaker 1: Listen to this.
2:15
Speaker 2: You know it's two o'clock in the morning. You're going
2:17
Speaker 2: to subway. Suberia is open twenty four hours.
2:21
Speaker 3: Like people kill me when they say things like that,
2:23
Speaker 3: because it's like, the subway is open twenty four hours
2:25
Speaker 3: for a reason, so that when you're hungry at night
2:27
Speaker 3: and you ain't got no food, you go to subway
2:30
Speaker 3: the camera and facing north.
2:32
Speaker 4: How is that my issue? It feels like.
2:36
Speaker 3: If I had said it was a Muslim or a
2:40
Speaker 3: Mexican or someone black, I feel like the doubters would
2:46
Speaker 3: have supported.
2:47
Speaker 4: Me a lot much more, a lot more.
2:50
Speaker 3: And that says a lot about the place that we
2:52
Speaker 3: are in our country right now, the.
2:54
Speaker 4: Fact that we have these fear mongols, these people.
2:57
Speaker 3: That are trying to separate us, and it's just not okay.
3:06
Speaker 3: It's just not okay. And for all of the people.
3:08
Speaker 3: The next time that you see someone report something, maybe
3:14
Speaker 3: well after the fact that it happened, and you say
3:18
Speaker 3: to them, well, why are you waiting until now? Just
3:22
Speaker 3: remember that mine was reported right away and look what
3:24
Speaker 3: has happened.
3:26
Speaker 1: You are hearing TV star Jesse Smillette talking to superstar
3:31
Speaker 1: Robin Roberts on GMA at ABC talking about people who
3:36
Speaker 1: have doubted his story that he was attacked by I
3:41
Speaker 1: believe it started as two white males. It changed at
3:45
Speaker 1: some point wearing red maga hats. I believe is how
3:50
Speaker 1: the story started. That also has changed to am in
3:53
Speaker 1: the morning coming out of a subway sandwich shop. According
3:58
Speaker 1: to Jesse Smolette, every one knows him, big star on Empire.
4:02
Speaker 1: He was attacked the purpose through acid on him, put
4:06
Speaker 1: a rope around his neck. It's my understanding. He called
4:11
Speaker 1: his manager and not nine one one. When he walked
4:15
Speaker 1: back home. He then called nine one one When police arrived,
4:19
Speaker 1: they found him sitting there and roughed up and the
4:25
Speaker 1: rope steal around his neck. What is the truth. If
4:30
Speaker 1: this is the truth, who attacked him? If it's not
4:33
Speaker 1: the truth. When he talks about his detractors dividing people,
4:39
Speaker 1: is he the one that's dividing people. And again, this
4:44
Speaker 1: is not about politics. I think all politicians lie, every
4:50
Speaker 1: single one of them. This is about a potential hoax
4:55
Speaker 1: on police or a horrible hate crime with me an
5:00
Speaker 1: all star panel forensics expert, and boy do we need
5:02
Speaker 1: her now. Karen Smith out of the Florida jurisdiction, renowned
5:07
Speaker 1: criminal attorney, Darryl Cohen, former prosecutor, joining me from Atlanta, Joiny,
5:13
Speaker 1: joining me from La psychoanalyst doctor Bethany Marshall, and joining
5:18
Speaker 1: me right now, crime online dot COM's Ellenclaurin e K.
5:22
Speaker 1: Let's just start at the beginning. Now, Typically when I'm
5:27
Speaker 1: hungry at two o'clock, I get something anything, usually the
5:30
Speaker 1: wrong thing, out of the fridge, eat it, and go
5:33
Speaker 1: back to sleep. All right, Usually I don't feel like
5:36
Speaker 1: getting up and even going to the fridge because I'm exhausted.
5:40
Speaker 1: But let's just start with a two am subway sandwich call.
5:43
Speaker 5: Go.
5:44
Speaker 6: Well, it does appear that Jossi Smalltt had arrived to
5:49
Speaker 6: the airport in Chicago Lake, so I don't think this
5:52
Speaker 6: was a matter of him waking up in the middle
5:54
Speaker 6: of that and going out to the freezing cold in
5:56
Speaker 6: the subway. It was a very cold day though, and
5:58
Speaker 6: he's he tells Polief that he's on his way home
6:01
Speaker 6: with his subway sandwich.
6:03
Speaker 1: Wa wait wait wait wait wait wait wait, this is
6:07
Speaker 1: in Chicago, correct, that's right?
6:09
Speaker 6: Yeah?
6:10
Speaker 1: So how cold is it it?
6:12
Speaker 6: We were pretty sure it was below free temperatures. This
6:15
Speaker 6: This was during a very very very.
6:17
Speaker 1: Cold spell in Chicago.
6:18
Speaker 6: I don't know the exact.
6:20
Speaker 1: Doctor, Bethnet. He must have been very hungry, very hungry.
6:24
Speaker 7: Indeed, his tummy must have been growling at two in
6:28
Speaker 7: the morning, because you know, Chicago has those that windshill factor,
6:32
Speaker 7: So if it's twenty degrees out regular temperature, the wind
6:36
Speaker 7: starts blowing.
6:37
Speaker 5: Forty to fifty degree below wind chill. I did my
6:41
Speaker 5: undergraduate work there. Nobody goes out at two.
6:44
Speaker 1: See Darryl Cohen, renowned Atlanta criminal defense attorney, is gnashing
6:48
Speaker 1: his teeth and twitching his tail right now because he
6:52
Speaker 1: thinks the temp has nothing to do with any of this.
6:54
Speaker 1: But that's why I always like to start Darryl, not
6:57
Speaker 1: with just the temperature, but beginning. The beginning is he
7:02
Speaker 1: wakes up, according to his story, at two am, and
7:06
Speaker 1: instead of getting leftover, Pietz out of the fridge or
7:09
Speaker 1: a whole chocolate cake, or whatever the matter may be.
7:13
Speaker 1: He goes out in forty below to get a Subway sandwich.
7:17
Speaker 1: See I start right there, That's where I start the story,
7:22
Speaker 1: and I think that's crazy. I'm not saying it didn't happen.
7:25
Speaker 1: I just think that's Craig cray.
7:27
Speaker 8: Well. I'm wondering if subway was actually open at two
7:30
Speaker 8: in the morning.
7:31
Speaker 1: Yeah, they're twenty four hour. Yeah, I love Subway. Although
7:34
Speaker 1: I did have a mini boycott for a week after
7:37
Speaker 1: Jared was, you know, busted on child porn. I guess
7:43
Speaker 1: it was their spokesperson. But long story short, Darryl Cohen,
7:47
Speaker 1: I mean, a defense attorney would argue that has absolutely
7:50
Speaker 1: nothing to do with it.
7:51
Speaker 8: I don't think it has anything to do with it.
7:53
Speaker 8: I think what has to do with it is did
7:56
Speaker 8: it or did it not happen? And as far as
7:58
Speaker 8: I can see from all of the evidence that's been
8:00
Speaker 8: presented to me, this guy is looking for a more
8:03
Speaker 8: publicity for whatever the reason, and he is about to
8:07
Speaker 8: get it.
8:07
Speaker 1: Well, he's getting it all right, Okay, e K. Let's
8:10
Speaker 1: just go with the premise that it's true because the
8:13
Speaker 1: official the official statement from Chicago PD is he is
8:17
Speaker 1: being treated as a victim because he is a victim
8:26
Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace. In the last hours, we
8:34
Speaker 1: learn that Netflix is at it again, sturing their witches
8:38
Speaker 1: cauldron with quote new evidence that the hate crime against
8:43
Speaker 1: Jesse Smilett and his story quote might just be a
8:50
Speaker 1: true story. As you will recall, soon after Smollette takes
8:58
Speaker 1: to the airwaves describing how he was the victim of
9:01
Speaker 1: a hate crime, Chicago PD released surveillance images of the
9:06
Speaker 1: perpetrators and identify the two as also being black. They
9:13
Speaker 1: are Nigerian American brothers. So we see the attackers performing
9:20
Speaker 1: a quote hate crime on Smolette, who is black and
9:24
Speaker 1: the purpose are black. Okay, just let that soak in
9:29
Speaker 1: for a moment. To claim a hate crime and wrap
9:36
Speaker 1: a rope around your neck as if you were threatened
9:39
Speaker 1: with lynching. Nothing could be more incendiary in our American consciousness.
9:48
Speaker 1: A horrible, horrible era that our country endured, all brought
9:57
Speaker 1: to the forefront by Smolettes hoax. Then evidence came out
10:03
Speaker 1: Smollet orchestrated his own attack and paid the brothers nearly
10:09
Speaker 1: four thousand dollars. Idiot wrote a check. Yeah, idiot, wrote
10:14
Speaker 1: a check for his hate crime attack. What more do
10:20
Speaker 1: we know?
10:21
Speaker 2: When did you because as you said, it was an
10:24
Speaker 2: acrid account of the timeline valuable information, When did you
10:31
Speaker 2: make that information available to the police.
10:34
Speaker 3: We gave, we had to give the phone records, which
10:38
Speaker 3: they didn't originally ask for my phone records. They asked
10:41
Speaker 3: for my phone. They wanted me to give my phone
10:44
Speaker 3: to the tech for three to four hours.
10:46
Speaker 4: I'm sorry, but I'm not going to do that.
10:53
Speaker 3: Why Because I have private pictures and videos and numbers,
10:58
Speaker 3: my partner's number, family's number, my castmate's number, my friend's numbers,
11:05
Speaker 3: my private emails, my private songs, my private voice memos.
11:09
Speaker 4: I don't know what that's going to be to hand
11:10
Speaker 4: over my phone for.
11:13
Speaker 3: And honestly, by then, inaccurate, false statements had already been
11:17
Speaker 3: put out there.
11:18
Speaker 1: You are hearing our friend superstar Robin Robert said ABC's GMA,
11:23
Speaker 1: She's awesome, and she is talking to Jesse Smolette, the
11:27
Speaker 1: Empire star Everybody Loves Empire. The Empire star who claims
11:32
Speaker 1: that at two am in the morning in Chicago, he
11:36
Speaker 1: decided he was hungry, goes out to Subway sandwich, gets
11:39
Speaker 1: a sandwich, and it's attacked by two guys that throw
11:41
Speaker 1: acid on him or bleach bleach, wrap a rope around
11:47
Speaker 1: his neck, attack him for being black and homosexual. He
11:52
Speaker 1: manages to get home and call police. He says, he
11:54
Speaker 1: calls his manager from the scene. Now, I think that
11:58
Speaker 1: is why they wanted to say, to confirm that he
12:02
Speaker 1: called his manager and not nine one one. They are
12:05
Speaker 1: being clear why they want the phone, But they want
12:08
Speaker 1: the phone. Kara Smith, journey Me forensics expert out of Florida.
12:11
Speaker 1: Why do they want Jesse Smollette's phone.
12:15
Speaker 9: Listen, when you're dealing with an alleged victim or alleged perpetrators,
12:18
Speaker 9: the best way now in the world of social media
12:21
Speaker 9: and texting is to get the phone of the victim.
12:24
Speaker 9: You can look at text messages and Instagram and Facebook
12:28
Speaker 9: and Twitter and all those things, and text messages especially Listen,
12:32
Speaker 9: if nothing happened, and I understand, you know, the privacy thing,
12:36
Speaker 9: and there's phone numbers and emails and whatever that he
12:39
Speaker 9: don't want released. But the police they're not going to
12:42
Speaker 9: go into that. That's not their interests. Their interest is
12:45
Speaker 9: looking at communications between Jesse Smollett and these other alleged perpetrators,
12:51
Speaker 9: if there was any, if there was any, the phone
12:54
Speaker 9: call that he made to his manager, what time did
12:56
Speaker 9: he make it, where did he make it from. All
12:58
Speaker 9: of those questions have to be answered, and they have
13:00
Speaker 9: to have the device. They can't just take somebody's word
13:03
Speaker 9: for it. That's not how life works anymore.
13:06
Speaker 1: Not anymore. Gerald Cohen, Atlanta, criminal defense attorney, former prosecutor,
13:10
Speaker 1: felony prosecutor in the jurisdiction where I also prosecuted. I
13:14
Speaker 1: just missed him, Darryl. At the time when we were
13:18
Speaker 1: when I first started prosecuting, we did not have DNA,
13:21
Speaker 1: we did not have cell phone pinging. We did it
13:24
Speaker 1: old school, okay, and we did it now with the
13:28
Speaker 1: advent of cell phone triangulation GPS tracking. When he is
13:35
Speaker 1: saying that he won't hand his phone over, that is
13:40
Speaker 1: a problem to me. I don't have a problem with
13:43
Speaker 1: anything else he's saying. But when he says fine, you
13:45
Speaker 1: know what, I don't have to explain why he's hungry
13:47
Speaker 1: at two am or goes out in sub zero that
13:50
Speaker 1: below freezing. That's a personal decision. But when you don't
13:54
Speaker 1: hand your phone over to cops, that is a big
13:58
Speaker 1: red flag to with your private communications, if you have
14:02
Speaker 1: had bleach poured on, you, beaten up, have a rope
14:07
Speaker 1: tied around your neck out on the street, you're handing
14:10
Speaker 1: your phone over because you want those people caught, right,
14:14
Speaker 1: I mean, have I lost my mind on that one thing, Darryl.
14:17
Speaker 8: Well, Nancy, I'm having a very big problem with finding
14:20
Speaker 8: out why he would call his manager. So the last
14:23
Speaker 8: time I checked, was not a law enforcement person, was
14:26
Speaker 8: not a bodyguard. Why would you not call the police
14:30
Speaker 8: any of us? Any of us, whether we're an actor,
14:33
Speaker 8: whether we're a lawyer, whether an Indian chief, whatever we
14:36
Speaker 8: may be, we are going to call the police if
14:39
Speaker 8: something bad happens. So, yeah, I've got a real problem
14:42
Speaker 8: with him not turning over his phone. This guy is Jesse,
14:46
Speaker 8: but he thinks he's Jesse James. He is having you
14:50
Speaker 8: work right now. He's having a real problem.
14:52
Speaker 1: You probably stand up all night, law thank you having
14:54
Speaker 1: it coming up with that. He's not Jesse, he's Jesse James. Okay,
14:58
Speaker 1: you know what, I'm going to just pass over with
15:00
Speaker 1: that one. You know it's a big deal to me, Darryl.
15:04
Speaker 1: And I know you're a famous defense attorney now, but
15:07
Speaker 1: in my mind, you'll always be an incredible felony prosecutor
15:12
Speaker 1: because you could get a jury eating out of your hand.
15:15
Speaker 1: You are always prepared. You need the law, you need
15:18
Speaker 1: the facts. You knew it all when you went in
15:21
Speaker 1: front of a jury. And in this case, when you
15:24
Speaker 1: have a victim that does not cooperate with police, that
15:28
Speaker 1: is a problem. I don't care who he is. I
15:30
Speaker 1: don't care who he sleeps with. I could not care less.
15:35
Speaker 1: I don't care. But if you don't cooperate with police,
15:41
Speaker 1: then that is a problem with me. What's your problem.
15:45
Speaker 8: There's a problem with me as well. I've got another
15:48
Speaker 8: problem with that. How in the world in the middle
15:50
Speaker 8: of the night, two am, nine degrees minus nine degrees,
15:54
Speaker 8: it's about the same frozen do you get mugged by
16:00
Speaker 8: two people who know you're obviously black, but you're homosexual?
16:04
Speaker 1: Really and you well, because he's a famous thing TV star.
16:09
Speaker 1: So here here's the thing. This is another wrinkle in this.
16:13
Speaker 1: To ellenk Lauren crime online dot Com, hold on, I'm
16:16
Speaker 1: going to write this down. Here's the thing. So, if
16:19
Speaker 1: they were targeting Jesse Smollette, Okay, hold on, they were
16:24
Speaker 1: targeting him and this was a hate crime, how did
16:28
Speaker 1: they know to be outside the subway at to am
16:34
Speaker 1: with bleach and rope or are they just hanging around
16:38
Speaker 1: to get a sandwich and they happen to have bleach
16:40
Speaker 1: and rope with them If they were targeting Jesse Smollette,
16:45
Speaker 1: e kay, were they casing out his apartment? Why were
16:50
Speaker 1: they there at two am? And I haven't even touched
16:54
Speaker 1: on these two guys, these two Nigerian guys that work
16:59
Speaker 1: out in his apartment building Jim that know him, that
17:05
Speaker 1: have been extras on the set of Empire, or at
17:08
Speaker 1: least one of them has that have been questioned and
17:12
Speaker 1: released and allegedly are now saying they were paid to
17:17
Speaker 1: do the attack. But first of all, I'm going to
17:19
Speaker 1: get to the theory, Ellen Calaurin, So the perps were
17:25
Speaker 1: what waiting outside the subway sandwich shop for him? I mean,
17:28
Speaker 1: what's the theory here? How did they know he was
17:31
Speaker 1: going to be getting a sandwich at two am? If
17:33
Speaker 1: he was the one targeted for a hate crime?
17:36
Speaker 6: Well, Nancy, they may have not known that he was
17:39
Speaker 6: going to get a sandwich at two am. But Jesse
17:42
Speaker 6: has an un Instagram account and he's a very active
17:45
Speaker 6: social media user, and we learned over the weekend, that
17:48
Speaker 6: he had been in New York during the previous days
17:51
Speaker 6: and he was on he had slowed back to Chicago
17:55
Speaker 6: that night, but his flight was the leaded and he
17:58
Speaker 6: came in much later than ext and he posted a
18:01
Speaker 6: couple of Instagram stories on his Instagram.
18:05
Speaker 1: Account talking about how.
18:07
Speaker 9: His flight was delayed.
18:08
Speaker 6: So if someone who had to have had a little
18:11
Speaker 6: bit of information about what was going on with him
18:15
Speaker 6: that day, if they wanted to track his movements, they
18:18
Speaker 6: could to a certain degree through his social media activity.
18:21
Speaker 1: Okay, let me ask you this eka regarding Jesse Smilette.
18:26
Speaker 1: Now that may make it make more sense that he
18:29
Speaker 1: was out at two am. He was his flight so delayed,
18:33
Speaker 1: he was just getting home from the airport at say
18:35
Speaker 1: one o'clock and hadn't eaten. Do we know the timing
18:39
Speaker 1: of that, because that makes although the Chicago airport is
18:44
Speaker 1: full of food, but I don't know if it would
18:46
Speaker 1: be open, the food stands would be opened that late
18:48
Speaker 1: at night. So if he gets off a plane from
18:50
Speaker 1: New York and he gets in midnight, gets to his
18:53
Speaker 1: apartment at one, he may very well be hungry. And
18:57
Speaker 1: there is a theory out there that that is how
19:01
Speaker 1: he communicated to set up the attack through posting, you know, Twitter, Facebook, Instagram,
19:09
Speaker 1: that these two brothers could actually see his movements by
19:13
Speaker 1: looking at his Facebook or Instagram. So ek, do we
19:16
Speaker 1: know what time he got in from his flight?
19:18
Speaker 6: I don't know exactly what time he landed or go
19:21
Speaker 6: back to his apartment, but it does We don't have
19:25
Speaker 6: a lot of very clear information at all, Nancy, But
19:28
Speaker 6: it does seem as though it's likely that he did
19:31
Speaker 6: stop off at his apartment first.
19:32
Speaker 1: But like you.
19:33
Speaker 6: Said, he has been away the middle of the night.
19:37
Speaker 6: He probably hasn't eaten. He's on the plate for longer
19:40
Speaker 6: than accepted.
19:41
Speaker 1: The food Court put in the toon crime Stories with
19:46
Speaker 1: Nancy Grace. Well, okay, remember another hoaxer, Anna Delvy aka
19:57
Speaker 1: Anna Sorkin, who ripped off her friends to nearly one
20:00
Speaker 1: hundred thousand dollars and then ended up on Dancing with
20:03
Speaker 1: the Stars. She'd be dazzled her GPS ankle monitor and
20:08
Speaker 1: then whined they Dancing with the Stars took advantage of her.
20:13
Speaker 1: I mean, really, now, this Jesse Smolette, the infamous race hoaxer,
20:21
Speaker 1: the former star of Empire. He brought that crashing down
20:26
Speaker 1: is going to star on Special Forces World's Toughest Test
20:29
Speaker 1: to air on Fox and Hulu. Have they lost their mind?
20:35
Speaker 3: I think that what people need to hear is just
20:38
Speaker 3: the truth. It's just the truth, because everybody has their
20:44
Speaker 3: own idea. Some are healing and some are hurtful. But
20:50
Speaker 3: I just want young people, young members of the LGBTQ community,
20:56
Speaker 3: young black children, to know how strong that they are,
21:01
Speaker 3: to know the power that they hold in their little pinky.
21:05
Speaker 10: It's been two weeks since that night left actor Jesse
21:08
Speaker 10: Smolette bruised but not broken, and he's still processing the
21:12
Speaker 10: raw motions.
21:14
Speaker 4: Have you ever been threatened before? Yeah?
21:17
Speaker 3: I get threatened all the time on Twitter and Instagram
21:21
Speaker 3: and dms and things like that.
21:22
Speaker 4: It's like, but you know, I'm a public figure.
21:27
Speaker 3: I'm very outspoken, sometimes maybe too outspoken, but it's who
21:37
Speaker 3: I am, you know, So I get the idea of
21:41
Speaker 3: pissing people off, that you're going to rub people the
21:44
Speaker 3: wrong way.
21:45
Speaker 10: In fact, the week before the attack, police confirm a
21:48
Speaker 10: letter was sent to the Fox studio in Chicago with
21:51
Speaker 10: threatening language, at least with powdery substance, likely tailanol.
21:55
Speaker 2: Do you think there's a link between the letter and
21:58
Speaker 2: the attack. And you did mention it to the police
22:01
Speaker 2: right away out of the letter.
22:02
Speaker 3: Absolutely, just because on the letter it had a stick
22:08
Speaker 3: figure hanging from a tree with a gun pointing towards it,
22:11
Speaker 3: with the words that said small at Jesse, you will
22:13
Speaker 3: die black. There was no address. Put the return address
22:17
Speaker 3: it in big red, you know, like caps, maga. Did
22:21
Speaker 3: I make that up too?
22:23
Speaker 1: You are hearing our friend Robin Roberts at ABC'SGMA speaking
22:26
Speaker 1: with Empire star Jesse Smillett. And right now we know
22:30
Speaker 1: that the police investigation is going on. Police chief has
22:33
Speaker 1: confirmed the two guys that allegedly are identified in the
22:37
Speaker 1: video that police believe committed the act the attack on
22:43
Speaker 1: Jesse Smollett have been apprehended, questioned and released with no charges.
22:51
Speaker 1: What about these letters, Ellen Calaurin, What are the letters
22:55
Speaker 1: that he claims he got leading up to this attack?
22:59
Speaker 1: Threatening letter?
23:00
Speaker 6: Yes, yes, one exactly one week before the night of
23:04
Speaker 6: the alleged assault, a letter was sent to the studio
23:09
Speaker 6: where he filmed the show Empire in Chicago, and it
23:12
Speaker 6: contained direct death threats, homophobic and racist language. There's two
23:19
Speaker 6: things about the letter that are coming up more recently
23:22
Speaker 6: in the discussion around this case. One of those is
23:25
Speaker 6: that some unidentified forces who have access to the set
23:30
Speaker 6: and may even work with Jesse, have told CBS News
23:34
Speaker 6: that he was unhappy about the response to the letter
23:38
Speaker 6: and the threat that he got, that he felt that
23:40
Speaker 6: there wasn't it wasn't taken seriously enough, and that he
23:44
Speaker 6: was angry, and that they're questioning did he set up
23:48
Speaker 6: this orchestrate this purported hate crime as retaliation for that.
23:54
Speaker 6: The other thing that we're learning, and again these are
23:57
Speaker 6: not official law enforcement statements, These are unidentified sources. You're
24:00
Speaker 6: talking to New Thought lists. But we're learning that the
24:04
Speaker 6: letter was made out of and you can see it
24:06
Speaker 6: in the photos.
24:07
Speaker 9: The letter was written sort of like.
24:08
Speaker 6: A ransom type of letter with cutout letters from a magazine.
24:13
Speaker 6: And we're hearing that when investigators went and raided the
24:17
Speaker 6: apartment of these two brothers who have been identified as
24:20
Speaker 6: possibly involved in this attack, they took away a magazine.
24:24
Speaker 1: Wait a minute, Wait a minute, doctor Bethany Marshall, Are
24:27
Speaker 1: these threat letters like the kinds you see on Agatha
24:31
Speaker 1: Christie and erkil Pirot, Like in the movies where you
24:36
Speaker 1: cut out letters from the newspaper and you stick them
24:40
Speaker 1: on a piece of paper instead of divulging your handwriting.
24:45
Speaker 1: And also we are learning for sure that in a
24:49
Speaker 1: follow up visit by investigators, Smolette says, the attackers mentioned
24:53
Speaker 1: something about this is Maga country, which relates back to
24:57
Speaker 1: the Trump campaign. Right, So the whole situation is fluid,
25:02
Speaker 1: but I can tell you this. Remember the runaway bride
25:06
Speaker 1: when she lied about getting kidnapped, she got to cut
25:10
Speaker 1: grass and do community service out in the public. I
25:13
Speaker 1: forgot how long other people have done jail time, hard
25:18
Speaker 1: jail time for bringing police in on a hoax of
25:21
Speaker 1: an investigation, because who knows what crimes were really happening
25:26
Speaker 1: at the time of a hoax, and instead of dealing
25:29
Speaker 1: with the real crime, cops are out spending thousands and
25:33
Speaker 1: thousands of dollars and man hours trying to solve a
25:37
Speaker 1: fake call. And this one, if it is fake, is
25:41
Speaker 1: a whopper. Now what do you make Dr Bethany Marshall
25:45
Speaker 1: the studio, the Empire Studio had assigned him bodyguards, we've
25:49
Speaker 1: been told, but according to sources, he was unhappy with
25:53
Speaker 1: the reaction to the letters. Does that mean what they
25:56
Speaker 1: didn't get enough attention? What does that mean to you?
25:58
Speaker 5: Doctor Bethany, Well, you were mentioning the runaway bride and
26:03
Speaker 5: these crimes where we find out it's a hoax in
26:05
Speaker 5: the end. And I don't know if this was a
26:07
Speaker 5: hoax or not. But in forensic interviews, one of the
26:11
Speaker 5: things we're trained to do with crime victims is to
26:14
Speaker 5: find out if they're doing something called malingering. MA Lingering
26:19
Speaker 5: is when you make up medical symptoms or you exaggerate
26:23
Speaker 5: medical symptoms for some external reward. It's that simple. Now,
26:28
Speaker 5: in twenty percent of criminal cases, lingering is involved in
26:33
Speaker 5: some way, twenty percent of PI cases, as you can imagine,
26:36
Speaker 5: MA lingering, thirty percent of disability cases. The sicker I am,
26:41
Speaker 5: the more I'm going to get some kind of reward
26:43
Speaker 5: or attention or I'm going to get out of some consequence,
26:48
Speaker 5: like you're not going to send me to jail, I'm
26:50
Speaker 5: not going to have to go to the military. So
26:52
Speaker 5: what's so interesting to me about this story is the
26:57
Speaker 5: exaggerate two aspects, the exaggerated name, mature of his symptoms.
27:01
Speaker 5: He's sitting on the sidewalk, bleach on his clothing, the
27:05
Speaker 5: rope around his neck. Wouldn't you pull a rope off? No,
27:08
Speaker 5: he's sitting there, you know, with the clear sign that
27:11
Speaker 5: he's been accosted. He talks about being black, gay, LGBTQ,
27:15
Speaker 5: anything that could paint him in a sympathetic light he
27:18
Speaker 5: keeps putting out there. The second aspect is the fuzzy
27:23
Speaker 5: nature of the timeline. When somebody malingers, they usually obstruct
27:28
Speaker 5: the investigation process. They do not want the investigators to
27:32
Speaker 5: know clearly what happens. So, if I have a patient
27:34
Speaker 5: and my practice, who's malingering? You know, doctor Marshall, I was,
27:38
Speaker 5: I don't know. My boss keeps yelling at me. I
27:40
Speaker 5: want to bring a lawsuit, you know. I say, well,
27:42
Speaker 5: what did your boss say?
27:43
Speaker 1: Well, I don't know.
27:43
Speaker 5: I just can't remember. So malingering is associated with very
27:48
Speaker 5: fuzzy dka.
27:49
Speaker 1: So is it true, Eka ellencalorincrimal line dot Com investigative
27:52
Speaker 1: reporter that small d had been in New York to
27:55
Speaker 1: audition for a role in the play that is very
28:00
Speaker 1: oddly similar to his alleged attack. What do we know
28:06
Speaker 1: about the play for which he was auditioning? He was
28:12
Speaker 1: at a reading.
28:12
Speaker 9: Actually it was an audition.
28:14
Speaker 6: I believe he's already part of the cast, but that's
28:16
Speaker 6: what he was doing in New York. He was flying
28:18
Speaker 6: back to He was flying back to Chicago from New York,
28:21
Speaker 6: and he was in New York because he was doing
28:23
Speaker 6: a reading of.
28:24
Speaker 9: The script of this play.
28:26
Speaker 6: And the character in the play is a person of color.
28:30
Speaker 6: It's a gay, it's a celebrity, a sports star in
28:32
Speaker 6: the cave in the case of the fictional character. But
28:35
Speaker 6: he is someone who the character is someone who has
28:40
Speaker 6: been the victim of hate crimes that, according to the
28:43
Speaker 6: reports that we're reading, the have some similarities in the
28:47
Speaker 6: crime that was allegedly committed against him, just that the
28:52
Speaker 6: within hours of him arriving back to Chicago for.
28:54
Speaker 1: The same wordying the same slurs, awful slurs. If this
28:58
Speaker 1: is true, it is a hate crime. I'm learning also
29:03
Speaker 1: Darryl Cohen, Atlanta criminal defense attorney, former prosecutor in felony
29:07
Speaker 1: court that he Smolette did not call police. It was
29:12
Speaker 1: a close associate about forty minutes after the attack, according
29:15
Speaker 1: to the New York Times, and I think that was
29:17
Speaker 1: his manager. He did not call police. And when Cox
29:21
Speaker 1: got to his place, he still was wearing the rope
29:23
Speaker 1: around his neck.
29:25
Speaker 8: Help me, well, I can help you, Nancy, because it
29:29
Speaker 8: sounds to me like a setup. Did you also pay
29:32
Speaker 8: attention to his voice. This is a guy that's reading
29:36
Speaker 8: a script. This is not someone who's upset. This is
29:39
Speaker 8: not someone who's been attacked. If you're attacked, you're not
29:43
Speaker 8: going to be calm and gentle. Add that to the cocktail.
29:47
Speaker 8: Add the fact that he's not giving his phone to
29:50
Speaker 8: the police to the cocktail. Add the fact that all
29:54
Speaker 8: he can do is say, oh my gosh, I was
29:57
Speaker 8: attacked and this is terrible as a noose around his
30:01
Speaker 8: neck forty minutes later. Really, this is a guy who
30:05
Speaker 8: was look many times, Nancy, people equate stars on television
30:12
Speaker 8: or on the big screen with intelligence. Sorry, not the same.
30:17
Speaker 8: Some are, some are not. This guy is reading a script.
30:21
Speaker 8: He saw a way to get even, perhaps, he saw
30:24
Speaker 8: a way to make more money. Perhaps, but what he
30:26
Speaker 8: didn't see is that he's not as bright as he
30:29
Speaker 8: believes himself to be. So he's not shakes.
30:32
Speaker 1: Take a listen to CBS Chicago reporter Charlie DeMar, brothers
30:36
Speaker 1: Ola and abel Osendaro, captured on Streeterville surveillance cameras, told detectives.
30:41
Speaker 11: Their role in the reported January twenty ninth attack on
30:44
Speaker 11: actor Jesse Smilette, according to multiple sources. Those sources say
30:49
Speaker 11: Smolett pay the brothers thousands to carry out a staged attack.
30:53
Speaker 11: Smolette had this to say about the scuffle with his attackers.
30:57
Speaker 3: He said, this Maga country punches me right in the face,
31:01
Speaker 3: so I punched it as back. I noticed the rope
31:04
Speaker 3: around my neck and I started screaming.
31:06
Speaker 1: People that make false claims to police, much less to
31:09
Speaker 1: this extent, usually land behind bars. If they're regular mortals
31:15
Speaker 1: like all of us. If your Hollywood star, maybe you
31:18
Speaker 1: get different treatment. Jesse Smileett, superstar on the cast of
31:23
Speaker 1: Empire to Ellenclaurencrimeline dot com investigative reporter where we have
31:29
Speaker 1: all breaking crime and justice news. Ellen, what can you
31:32
Speaker 1: tell me about these two guys. Everyone refers to them
31:35
Speaker 1: as Nigerian. They're American. That's right, Nancy.
31:38
Speaker 6: They were bored and raised in Chicago. The reason I
31:41
Speaker 6: believe that people are calling them Nigeria is because they
31:45
Speaker 6: for reasons that have not been explained and I do
31:47
Speaker 6: not understand. Apparently, flew to Nigeria the day after the
31:52
Speaker 6: attack and came back to Chicago last week, where they
31:55
Speaker 6: were met with investigators at the airport that has not
31:58
Speaker 6: been explained why that happened or if it has anything
32:02
Speaker 6: to do at.
32:02
Speaker 9: All with the alleged assaults.
32:06
Speaker 6: And I also wanted to point something else out, since
32:09
Speaker 6: we're talking about the.
32:10
Speaker 9: Rope and the phone.
32:13
Speaker 6: A lot of the things that have come up in
32:15
Speaker 6: recent days really don't look look good like they look
32:18
Speaker 6: very suspicious and and things are starting to really maybe
32:22
Speaker 6: fall apart here in this story. But a couple of
32:24
Speaker 6: things I think are not suspicious that happened here. I
32:28
Speaker 6: don't think it's suspicious that he did not want to
32:31
Speaker 6: hand over his entire phone immediately. He's a public figure,
32:35
Speaker 6: he's a celebrity.
32:36
Speaker 1: You who had allen received before? Allan, have you ever
32:40
Speaker 1: been attacked at two am, had a rope tied around
32:42
Speaker 1: your neck and bleach port on you? Because if you have,
32:46
Speaker 1: I'd like to have you about that, okay, because if
32:48
Speaker 1: that happens to you and your life is in danger
32:50
Speaker 1: and cops say we need your phone, you go here
32:53
Speaker 1: whatever I mean. When the cop pulls me over, which
32:57
Speaker 1: has happened, I like say, what ever here, take it all, okay,
33:03
Speaker 1: just plays leave my children behind whatever. I don't want
33:07
Speaker 1: a problem with a cop, Okay, nobody should be above
33:11
Speaker 1: the law, and if they want your phone, give your phone.
33:14
Speaker 1: But you know what, that's you and this is me,
33:17
Speaker 1: So go ahead with your analysis, okay.
33:21
Speaker 6: But what I wanted to also say is that I
33:23
Speaker 6: believe he did agree to hand over the full on
33:25
Speaker 6: records about the rope. What we heard in the in
33:29
Speaker 6: the beginning of this narrative was that he kept the
33:32
Speaker 6: rope around his neck because he didn't want to sort
33:35
Speaker 6: of disturb the scene and he wanted the responding officers
33:40
Speaker 6: to see what had been done. That was the explanation
33:43
Speaker 6: for the rope of being a left.
33:45
Speaker 1: You know what, I hear you, And he could have
33:49
Speaker 1: claimed that he did not want his DNA his I
33:54
Speaker 1: don't think you get prints off rope, but any of
33:56
Speaker 1: his fibers or DNA on the rope or to ruin
33:59
Speaker 1: any evidence on the rope. So I can understand that.
34:03
Speaker 1: Now it's my understanding that he did hand over phone records,
34:09
Speaker 1: but that they were heavily redacted crime stories with Nancy
34:19
Speaker 1: Grace x his on fire one user says, yikes, someone
34:28
Speaker 1: giving Jesse Smilette a platform after all, the let me
34:32
Speaker 1: just say, crap he pulled is a little scary. Another
34:36
Speaker 1: says I thought he was in jail. Well, you're right,
34:39
Speaker 1: that's where he should be. Another says, on X, why
34:44
Speaker 1: is Jesse Smilette not in jail? Another says, I see
34:48
Speaker 1: Jesse Smillette still trying to reinvent himself, like we forgot
34:51
Speaker 1: he staged a fake hate crime to become famous. Another
34:56
Speaker 1: says this is bleak. Another says the return of Juicy Smollett.
35:05
Speaker 1: Is he going to convince us he's a quote tough guy.
35:09
Speaker 1: Another says he's going to pretend to get beat up
35:12
Speaker 1: by Maga. Hey listen, I'm not a Democrat or a Republican,
35:16
Speaker 1: but everybody's say everybody joining in on X is right.
35:21
Speaker 1: Another gets real and says, Jesse Smolette is such a
35:23
Speaker 1: gross and unnecessary casting choice. Why is everyone up in arms?
35:29
Speaker 1: This is why? According to TMZ our friend Harvey Levin,
35:33
Speaker 1: the phone records were handed over and the cops rejected them.
35:39
Speaker 1: The cops rejected them, Darryl cod, are you sitting down?
35:43
Speaker 1: The cops rejected them, saying that they were so heavily
35:47
Speaker 1: redacted that they were basically of no use. What about
35:52
Speaker 1: handing over your phone records to cop? If you redact them.
35:58
Speaker 8: Oh, come on, Nancy, this is absurd. If you have
36:01
Speaker 8: a victim of a crime. First of all, I want
36:04
Speaker 8: to go back to the net to the news. If
36:06
Speaker 8: I've got a noose around my neck, oh my god,
36:08
Speaker 8: I'm going to rip that off as quickly as I
36:10
Speaker 8: possibly can, because I am freaked out. This guy was
36:14
Speaker 8: not hurt. This guy was not attacked. He is looking
36:18
Speaker 8: for publicity. He may have won an Emmy for Empire,
36:22
Speaker 8: but the news outlets in Chicago are going to win
36:24
Speaker 8: a news Emmy for their coverage of this guy who
36:28
Speaker 8: doesn't recognize the.
36:29
Speaker 5: Truth from a lie.
36:31
Speaker 8: He is scripted and he's gotten himself into a problem.
36:34
Speaker 8: He's a walking, living soap opera.
36:37
Speaker 1: The whole reason they got interested in the phone records
36:39
Speaker 1: to start with is that Smolette said to Comps he
36:42
Speaker 1: was on the phone with his manager at the time
36:45
Speaker 1: of the attack, and that the manager says he heard
36:49
Speaker 1: the racial and homophobic slurs being thrown, and they want
36:55
Speaker 1: to authenticate that that call was in fact made. They
36:59
Speaker 1: Asscelent for the records about two weeks before they got
37:03
Speaker 1: a PDF file. Now, police also say their cameras everywhere
37:08
Speaker 1: in the area, but there is a sixty second gap
37:11
Speaker 1: in the video where you don't see the Empire start,
37:14
Speaker 1: So there's no video of the actual attack. I've looked
37:17
Speaker 1: at shots of the video and you see two persons
37:20
Speaker 1: of interest in surveillance footage. Now, this is what is
37:23
Speaker 1: telling to me, Dr Bethany Marshall. These two guys that
37:26
Speaker 1: everybody calls Nigerians, they're Americans, Let's be very clear on that.
37:31
Speaker 1: Who take off to Nigeria the day after the attack.
37:35
Speaker 1: They work out in his building, at least one of
37:38
Speaker 1: them does in the gym in Spolett's building, his apartment building.
37:43
Speaker 1: One of them has been an extra on the set.
37:45
Speaker 1: They're totally buff. They look like their bodybuilders. I've seen
37:48
Speaker 1: their photos and I never see them wearing a shirt.
37:51
Speaker 1: I mean not judging, but they are totally buff. So
37:54
Speaker 1: you can see they work out all the time. They
37:57
Speaker 1: take off for Nigeria the day after the attack, they
38:00
Speaker 1: come back and they're met by the cops. They are questioned,
38:03
Speaker 1: they are released Dtor Bethany no charges, and after meeting
38:08
Speaker 1: with them, cops say they want to reinterview Jesse Smolett.
38:13
Speaker 1: What does that say to you, Doctor Bethany.
38:15
Speaker 5: Well, first of all, the trip to Nigeria. They're now
38:17
Speaker 5: thirty five hundred dollars richer because they just got paid
38:20
Speaker 5: for the attack, right, And some people do not think
38:25
Speaker 5: ahead when they collude with somebody who's drawing them into
38:28
Speaker 5: a crime. So they thought, I may have fought, no
38:30
Speaker 5: big deal. We'll rough them up, We'll put a rope
38:33
Speaker 5: around his neck, we'll take vacation, we'll come back, this
38:36
Speaker 5: will have all blown over. But you know what, they
38:39
Speaker 5: talk to the police, and as I was saying about malingering,
38:42
Speaker 5: the whole story does not shake out. The timeline is
38:45
Speaker 5: not consistent, and so the police are going to look
38:48
Speaker 5: to Jesse. And I would wonder what is Jesse's reward
38:53
Speaker 5: in all of this When people malinger symptoms. You know,
38:56
Speaker 5: I was roughed up, I was a victim. They do
38:58
Speaker 5: it for a reward. Is he trying to up his
39:03
Speaker 5: Twitter following? Is he negotiating a contract right now and
39:07
Speaker 5: he wants to prove to the EP of the show
39:11
Speaker 5: that he is the center of a national news situation.
39:16
Speaker 5: Is he wanting to take somebody else's role in empire?
39:20
Speaker 5: You know, I think that there's a reward there somewhere,
39:24
Speaker 5: And if you follow that trail, the whole thing begins.
39:26
Speaker 1: Well, I've been looking in researching and following and asking questions.
39:30
Speaker 1: According to CBS Chicago, who is there on the scene,
39:35
Speaker 1: Cotts want to speak to Smollette again based on quote
39:38
Speaker 1: new evidence they learn from the two friends the two guys. Now,
39:44
Speaker 1: according to CBS, two sources told them that Smolette paid
39:49
Speaker 1: the two guys thirty five hundred dollars to stage the attack.
39:53
Speaker 1: This is CBS This Morning Anchor John Dickerson. Take a
39:57
Speaker 1: listen to what they see on the video.
39:59
Speaker 12: Please are looking for two potential persons of interest in
40:02
Speaker 12: a possible hate crime against actor Jesse Smollett. Police say
40:06
Speaker 12: a surveillance camera took these images of the two men
40:10
Speaker 12: on the night.
40:10
Speaker 4: Smollette says he was beaten.
40:12
Speaker 12: The star of the TV drama Empire said his masked
40:15
Speaker 12: at attackers yelled racist and homophobic slurs. Dean Reynolds is
40:20
Speaker 12: tracking the investigation.
40:22
Speaker 13: The investigators are hoping the FBI can enhance those images
40:26
Speaker 13: to provide some distinguishing details. Now, the men are not
40:29
Speaker 13: considered suspects, but the police do want to know who
40:33
Speaker 13: they are and what they were doing when Smollett says
40:36
Speaker 13: he was attacked.
40:37
Speaker 14: Sources tell CBS News the two figures seen in these
40:40
Speaker 14: dark surveillance images were also spotted sitting on a bench
40:44
Speaker 14: when Jesse Smolette walked past them across the street. They
40:48
Speaker 14: then appear to get up and follow him, although the
40:50
Speaker 14: three of them are never seen on camera together. About
40:53
Speaker 14: a minute later, investigators say another security camera captured Smollette
40:58
Speaker 14: returning to his apartment with a noose tied around his neck.
41:02
Speaker 14: The rope was untied but still on his neck when
41:05
Speaker 14: police arrived, forty five minutes after.
41:08
Speaker 4: He says he was attacked.
41:09
Speaker 1: The truth about Jesse Smollette. I think I already know
41:14
Speaker 1: the truth. Joining the infamous race hoaxer, stirring up racial
41:20
Speaker 1: animosity like nobody else, Jesse Smlette set to star in
41:26
Speaker 1: a reality show along with the Real Housewives of New
41:29
Speaker 1: Jersey cast member Teresa Judice, whose own brush with the
41:34
Speaker 1: law involved an eleven month prison sentence for fraud. Ooh,
41:39
Speaker 1: she's going to compete along with her daughter Jia.
41:44
Speaker 6: Oh.
41:45
Speaker 1: Okay, I guess some Smollett's in good company. Other contestants
41:50
Speaker 1: for season four include Kristen Cavalieri's ex boyfriend Mark Estes.
41:57
Speaker 1: I may I know who all these contestants are. But
42:00
Speaker 1: I know who Jesse Smolette is. As fans respond, quote,
42:04
Speaker 1: I thought he was in jail, Well he should be.
42:08
Speaker 4: Wow.
42:09
Speaker 1: I'm almost through with the pizza and I'm ready to
42:11
Speaker 1: start on a large popcorn loaded with butter. Jesse Smolette
42:15
Speaker 1: is going to be on TV.
42:16
Speaker 4: Wow.
42:17
Speaker 1: Thanks Hulu. We wait as Justice Unfalds. Goodbye friend,