Latest / Foul Territory / Marlins & Guardians offseason needs + Dodgers heavily favored again

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Marlins & Guardians offseason needs + Dodgers heavily favored again · Foul Territory

0:08
Speaker 1: That's it the Marlins for our off season to do list.
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Speaker 1: Isaac is Zoo joining us right now, Isaac. Great to
0:12
Speaker 1: have you on and you can catch Isaac's work on
0:15
Speaker 1: Fish on First Great site, cover in the Marlins, rights
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Speaker 1: for Them, editor for Them, co host of Fish Unfiltered,
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Speaker 1: among many other Marlins insights. So let's get into this, Isaac.
0:26
Speaker 1: What do you think is the to do list here
0:28
Speaker 1: for the Marlins so far? Christopher Morrell added to see
0:31
Speaker 1: if they can catch some fire from somebody who definitely
0:33
Speaker 1: has the stat cast stats. But what else can you
0:35
Speaker 1: tell us about what you expect?
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Speaker 2: Well, I think the Marlins have a few things on
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Speaker 2: there to do list for sure. First things first is
0:41
Speaker 2: the high leverage relief options that they that are on
0:44
Speaker 2: the market, still on the market anyway, I think they
0:46
Speaker 2: want to shore up the back end of that bullpen immediately.
0:49
Speaker 2: Then second is probably to add at least one or
0:51
Speaker 2: maybe two more bats to their lineup, whether it's via
0:54
Speaker 2: trade or free agency, I think either way, they just
0:56
Speaker 2: would like to add a little bit of length to
0:57
Speaker 2: that lineup. And then finally, or simon a while, I
1:00
Speaker 2: think you could see an extension happened this offseason. Like
1:03
Speaker 2: I said, for the first time, at least under this
1:05
Speaker 2: ownership group, the Marlins have some pretty attractive extension candidates,
1:08
Speaker 2: and I wouldn't be surprised if there's maybe multiple extensions
1:12
Speaker 2: announced what in the next twelve months or so.
1:15
Speaker 3: High leverage relief options ISAAC have been going off the board.
1:22
Speaker 3: Have they been in on those in the sense that
1:25
Speaker 3: not in like the Red Sox are in on every
1:27
Speaker 3: single player. Still haven't signed a major league free agent.
1:30
Speaker 3: But were they in? Were they in to push this
1:34
Speaker 3: team in an area, like you said, high leverage, Like
1:38
Speaker 3: to me, this is one of the better starting pitching
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Speaker 3: organizations that's out there right now, and then the bullpen
1:45
Speaker 3: just fell flat on their face. For the most part.
1:49
Speaker 3: A high leverage would have pushed them to above five hundred,
1:53
Speaker 3: you know, to a much higher season ending record.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, one hundred percent improved by seventeen wins last year.
2:02
Speaker 2: I think you could have seen them be in the
2:03
Speaker 2: postseason race up until Game one sixty two had they
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Speaker 2: had a little bit more depth at the back end
2:08
Speaker 2: of that bullpen. Obviously Ronnie Henriquez did everything he could,
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Speaker 2: but yes, so answer your question, they were very much
2:13
Speaker 2: interested in Devin Williams before he got off the board.
2:15
Speaker 2: They were interested in Steven Mattz, cal Finnegan, Ryan Helsley
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Speaker 2: before he went to Baltimore. So they have been in
2:21
Speaker 2: on a lot of these guys, but unfortunately they just
2:23
Speaker 2: weren't comfortable going to the multiple years that they did
2:26
Speaker 2: command from their respective organizations. One guy that's still out
2:29
Speaker 2: there that still is considered high leverage is Peter Fairbanks,
2:32
Speaker 2: and I can confirm that the Martins are still very
2:34
Speaker 2: much interested. They've even upped their offers to the mid
2:37
Speaker 2: teens for a one year deal, so you could see
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Speaker 2: him one year thirteen fourteen million dollars or so. So yeah,
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Speaker 2: I think that's their sort of last chance for that
2:45
Speaker 2: high leverage role anyway. And I think if let's say
2:48
Speaker 2: they they're unable to get him, I think you could
2:50
Speaker 2: see them sort of wait till January or February for
2:53
Speaker 2: some of those lower tier guys, maybe someone like Sir
2:55
Speaker 2: Anthony Domingez could come close to them.
2:59
Speaker 3: Way way they weren't comfortable going a few years. Like
3:02
Speaker 3: this team is young, it's not like they're like we
3:05
Speaker 3: got to win now. This is the win now, Like
3:07
Speaker 3: if they get a stopgap one year, Pete Fairbanks at
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Speaker 3: even if they say thirteen million dollars which per year,
3:15
Speaker 3: that would be more than what Brad Keller got, That
3:17
Speaker 3: would be more than what Luke Weaver got. Why do
3:20
Speaker 3: you feel like, besides the fact that they're cheap and
3:23
Speaker 3: don't want to spend that they weren't willing to with
3:26
Speaker 3: the way this roster is and I love this young roster.
3:30
Speaker 3: Say we want somebody for three years that locks down
3:33
Speaker 3: that bullpen.
3:35
Speaker 2: It's not about the money. It's like you said, it's
3:37
Speaker 2: about the years. And from what I understand, this is
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Speaker 2: just the way that Peter Bendix operates. It's the way
3:41
Speaker 2: that Tampa Bay Rays operate. They don't feel comfortable handing
3:44
Speaker 2: out They think that free agent deals are just sometimes
3:48
Speaker 2: not a great value at times. And if you want
3:50
Speaker 2: to get a reliever who there's no position on the
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Speaker 2: field that's more volatile than that. They just don't feel
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Speaker 2: comfortable handing out three year deals to guys who have
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Speaker 2: suffered some injury history in Fairbanks case or another guys
4:00
Speaker 2: like William Some guys will command forty five year deals
4:03
Speaker 2: like Suarez and like Edwin Diaz. But in Miami's case,
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Speaker 2: Peter Bendix is going to operate in the way like
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Speaker 2: the Rays have and they're just gonna give one year
4:10
Speaker 2: deals to a lot of these guys.
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Speaker 4: Let me, I'm gonna transfer over to the extensions. But
4:16
Speaker 4: first let me help you a little bit. It's about
4:18
Speaker 4: the money. It's not about the years. They they they
4:22
Speaker 4: don't care about the years. It's all always about the money.
4:26
Speaker 4: But instead of being in seat of throwing out the
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Speaker 4: words cheap or anything, let's just go cost effective, small market.
4:31
Speaker 4: I played in one for for many years Cleveland, and
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Speaker 4: one of their guidelines to get through it, and one
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Speaker 4: of their reasons that they were successful in the nineties
4:39
Speaker 4: and two thousands and before that, was they would lock
4:41
Speaker 4: up their young players early and on cheap deals. Rather
4:45
Speaker 4: they would be team friendly deals, and that's how you
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Speaker 4: get them. So who are the top priorities that Miami
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Speaker 4: is trying to consider? Who do you think are the
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Speaker 4: top three to five that they they should lock up
4:54
Speaker 4: or trying to lock.
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Speaker 2: Up The number one guy, from what I understand, is
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Speaker 2: right handed Yuri pro As. The two sides had conversations
5:02
Speaker 2: back in spring training of twenty twenty five, and obviously
5:04
Speaker 2: during the season they don't really have those talks, but
5:06
Speaker 2: they are expected to resume this offseason, maybe even going
5:09
Speaker 2: into spring training. So I think he's the number one priority.
5:11
Speaker 2: You know, they don't really love extending pitchers either, but
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Speaker 2: if they're on young pitcher two lock up long term,
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Speaker 2: his combination of just control and command and stuff and age,
5:22
Speaker 2: you just he's the number one target. And then the
5:24
Speaker 2: second guy, Jacob Marcy, who debuted in the second half
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Speaker 2: of last year. They acquired him and he leuis a
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Speaker 2: rise deal and he just came up and was on
5:31
Speaker 2: a five win pace during his two months stretch with
5:33
Speaker 2: the Marlins. And there have been some conversations between his
5:37
Speaker 2: representatives and the Marlins as recently as the last couple
5:40
Speaker 2: of weeks going after the winter meetings, and so I
5:42
Speaker 2: expect that to maybe be able to get done. From
5:44
Speaker 2: what I understand, they're looking at the first Christian Yelch
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Speaker 2: extension from the Marls. I believe that I was in
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Speaker 2: twenty fourteen, seven years forty four million dollars ISSH. Jared
5:54
Speaker 2: duran One is another comp that I've heard. So it
5:57
Speaker 2: looks like the Marlins are trying to extend a couple
5:59
Speaker 2: of their guys.
6:00
Speaker 3: All right, If you had your if you had your choice,
6:04
Speaker 3: to make this team best where it fits into this
6:07
Speaker 3: current young, young position player corps that they have. What
6:12
Speaker 3: free agent bat or trade would plug in and make
6:16
Speaker 3: the most impact. I don't care if you say Kyle Tucker.
6:19
Speaker 3: You know he lives in Florida. I don't care. It's
6:22
Speaker 3: more of how it fits into this roster and the
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Speaker 3: niche that they need, because there are some positions that,
6:28
Speaker 3: in my opinion, are filled already in Miami with some
6:32
Speaker 3: really good players like Marci I love, Augustine Ramirez. You know,
6:37
Speaker 3: there's some guys that have good position, But where do
6:40
Speaker 3: you see that fit being if you had endless cash.
6:44
Speaker 2: If you look at the twenty twenty five season, the
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Speaker 2: position that lacked the most production was by far first base.
6:50
Speaker 2: And since I don't have a name for you, it
6:53
Speaker 2: looks like that they're not necessarily going after first baseman.
6:56
Speaker 2: It looks like they're trying to go the route of
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Speaker 2: finding maybe an outfield or whatever the best bat available is,
7:00
Speaker 2: whether trade or free agency, They're going to try and
7:03
Speaker 2: fix that first base issue. Internally, there's been reports that
7:06
Speaker 2: alder Griffin Conine will get reps at first base. There's
7:09
Speaker 2: reports that Connor Norby, Hi, ROBERTA Hernandez, a couple of
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Speaker 2: other outfielders and third baseman could get reps at first base.
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Speaker 2: So it doesn't seem like they're targeting a specific position
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Speaker 2: on the diamond more so just trying to find the
7:19
Speaker 2: best bat available to linked in that lineup and then
7:22
Speaker 2: mix it matches the season goes on, because the way
7:24
Speaker 2: I see it, there's maybe four guys in that lineup
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Speaker 2: that are going to play every single day and the
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Speaker 2: rest it will be a mix and match situation.
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Speaker 4: At some point they got to I mean, it's great
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Speaker 4: to extend and it's great for a fan base to
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Speaker 4: see these young players for amount of years and get
7:39
Speaker 4: attached to them and all that stuff, but you got
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Speaker 4: to get a little star power at someone if you
7:44
Speaker 4: want to rejuvenate a fan base, and if you want
7:45
Speaker 4: to rejuvenate a great city like Miami, because it's just
7:48
Speaker 4: it's not the best sports city. There's a lot of
7:51
Speaker 4: other stuff going on that guys. The games are just
7:54
Speaker 4: it's one of the most empty stadiums when they play.
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Speaker 4: You need that star power and they had it before
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Speaker 4: with the the late Jose Fernandez and John Carlo when
8:02
Speaker 4: he was hit home runs there. It's like you got
8:05
Speaker 4: to have a face for the franchise or something like that.
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Speaker 4: So it's nice to have these young guys, but at
8:09
Speaker 4: some point, if you want to actually do something as
8:11
Speaker 4: an organization, they got to go out and get a name.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, it wouldn't hurt. Just remember you. I'm sure you
8:17
Speaker 2: know when when Stanton was chasing sixty and Jose was
8:21
Speaker 2: pitching as well as he was, no one was there either.
8:23
Speaker 2: You know, they had a time.
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Speaker 5: That's true.
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Speaker 2: They had a tough time getting fans in that ballpark regardless.
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Speaker 2: So like I said before, it's they're just going to
8:30
Speaker 2: operate like the Rays, and they think that through development,
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Speaker 2: through drafting, through clever trades and waiver wire pickups, they
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Speaker 2: will get to where they want to be. And it's
8:39
Speaker 2: if it's not the sexiest way, so be it. But
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Speaker 2: that's just the way that it sounds like they're going
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Speaker 2: to go.
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Speaker 3: All right, I got an org question for you, because
8:47
Speaker 3: I know Jeremy pal the head of pitching development, whatever
8:52
Speaker 3: name you want to have in the minor leagues that
8:55
Speaker 3: got fired when Peter Bendix came in or not rehired
8:58
Speaker 3: as minor league coaches. If you don't get a job,
9:01
Speaker 3: you're not fired, You're just not rehired. He was very
9:05
Speaker 3: instrumental and essential in this crop of young pitchers that
9:10
Speaker 3: came up through the organization. He had his fingerprint on
9:12
Speaker 3: a lot of these guys, and Peter Bendex comes in
9:15
Speaker 3: and doesn't renew him, just like the position put the
9:20
Speaker 3: head of position players and hitting. When gian Carlos Stanton, JT.
9:25
Speaker 3: Real Muto, Christian Yelich, Marcelo Zuna, we're coming through the
9:28
Speaker 3: minor leagues, they get rid of that. Isn't that where
9:33
Speaker 3: the Marlins have to be one hundred percent even to
9:36
Speaker 3: the point of look, Jeremy Palell, because I'm using that
9:39
Speaker 3: as an example. You've done so well helping these pictures
9:43
Speaker 3: become who they are. Obviously it's all in the pictures.
9:46
Speaker 3: We need to keep you. Plus add to that because
9:48
Speaker 3: another coach, what does that cost one hundred and fifty
9:51
Speaker 3: thousand dollars two hundred thousand if you have the greatest one.
9:54
Speaker 3: But they're looking to cut those pieces and it almost
9:58
Speaker 3: is like they're cutting they're cutting their pipeline. That is
10:01
Speaker 3: the only way of what you just said building this
10:04
Speaker 3: team from within.
10:06
Speaker 2: Well before Peter took over, the system was in shambles.
10:09
Speaker 2: I think we can all agree on that they really
10:11
Speaker 2: had one of the worst farm systems in baseball, and
10:13
Speaker 2: since he has taken over, it has jumped to arguably
10:16
Speaker 2: top ten. And regarding renewing coaches, any time a head
10:21
Speaker 2: of baseball operations department is gonna, you know, make overseeing changes,
10:25
Speaker 2: he's gonna do some crazy overhauling and unfortunately there's some
10:28
Speaker 2: unpopular decisions when it comes with that. But yeah, there's
10:31
Speaker 2: a lot of examples of coaches that I thought could
10:33
Speaker 2: have stayed or even Triba a Jacksonville's coach not coming
10:36
Speaker 2: back either. There's a lot of moves that are head
10:38
Speaker 2: scratchers at times. But again, Peter Bennix is always, you know,
10:41
Speaker 2: to bring in his own guys, the guys that he's
10:43
Speaker 2: comfortable with, guys that he has history with, even if hey,
10:46
Speaker 2: those guys directly had an impact on some of these
10:49
Speaker 2: young guys pitching really well. Unfortunately, it's just the way
10:52
Speaker 2: it goes, all right.
10:53
Speaker 3: So one more pitching question for you, calling pitches from
10:57
Speaker 3: the dugout. They did it the last As a catcher,
11:02
Speaker 3: I have some not one hundred percent. I'm not one
11:04
Speaker 3: hundred percent against it. I'm some percent against it because
11:08
Speaker 3: all it is is about success and the success showed
11:12
Speaker 3: when they did it. I think it was it the
11:13
Speaker 3: last month or the last two weeks. You know, they
11:15
Speaker 3: can show in that small sample size that it was successful.
11:19
Speaker 3: Are they going to continue it and ramp it up more?
11:22
Speaker 2: Yes, that will be continued. Obviously, Miami's assistant pitching coach,
11:26
Speaker 2: Alon Likeman, is going to go be with the Colorado
11:28
Speaker 2: Rockies as their head pitching coach, and so since then
11:30
Speaker 2: Miami has been able to replace them with Rob Marcello,
11:33
Speaker 2: and it sounds like they're gonna go in to spring
11:35
Speaker 2: training and see how it goes and you know, get
11:37
Speaker 2: everyone up to speed with that process. But it does
11:39
Speaker 2: sound like that will continue going into twenty twenty six
11:41
Speaker 2: as well as through all the minor league levels. They
11:43
Speaker 2: will be calling pitches from the dugout and if I
11:46
Speaker 2: had a guess, it'd be Rob Marchello calling pitches this
11:48
Speaker 2: year to replace Alon. And then, yeah, it is an
11:52
Speaker 2: interesting POV. You're, like you said, you're a catcher. There's
11:56
Speaker 2: guys in the dug that don't know how the hitters
11:58
Speaker 2: feeling behind the plate, like you guys would do. So
12:00
Speaker 2: it's definitely interesting the way what they're doing, but the
12:03
Speaker 2: results you can't argue with results so far. They only
12:05
Speaker 2: did two weeks toward the end of September, but it
12:08
Speaker 2: really panned out pretty well, honestly, But obviously it's September numbers.
12:11
Speaker 2: It can't put too much weight on it. However, yes,
12:13
Speaker 2: it will be back in twenty twenty six.
12:15
Speaker 3: When it has success again, because obviously if it doesn't
12:19
Speaker 3: have success, we're not going to hear about it. It's
12:20
Speaker 3: not going to be the front office's fault. But when
12:23
Speaker 3: it has success again, does it seem like a approach
12:28
Speaker 3: that will work in big situations, in playoff situations, in
12:34
Speaker 3: the place where I hope the Marlins organization wants to
12:36
Speaker 3: get to, and that's into big games.
12:40
Speaker 2: That's a great question. I would assume that if they're
12:43
Speaker 2: doing it in the minor league or they're doing a
12:44
Speaker 2: spring training and they're doing it from opening day on,
12:47
Speaker 2: I would have to imagine that if they're playing in
12:49
Speaker 2: the National League Championship Series, they're going to be doing
12:51
Speaker 2: it there too. They've been prepping their catches in the
12:53
Speaker 2: minor league levels for years or for the last year
12:55
Speaker 2: anyway for the situation, and I just don't I wouldn't
12:58
Speaker 2: understand if they would do it only for the whole
13:01
Speaker 2: hundred and sixty two game season and then not when
13:03
Speaker 2: it really matters in October. I would tend to agree
13:06
Speaker 2: with you that, you know, I would like in those
13:08
Speaker 2: high leveled spots, maybe let the catcher make those calls.
13:11
Speaker 2: But their point of view is to let the catchers
13:14
Speaker 2: just focus on catching the ball and hitting and framing
13:17
Speaker 2: well and then yeah, just leaving the pitch calling to
13:20
Speaker 2: the guys in the dugout.
13:22
Speaker 1: Hey last one for you, Isaac. I lived in Miami
13:26
Speaker 1: for five years, and I want to go back to
13:28
Speaker 1: how you described John, Carlos, stan and Jose Fernandez. They're
13:32
Speaker 1: still not commanding an audience. If it's you, you own
13:35
Speaker 1: the team right now, how do you create more buzz?
13:39
Speaker 1: I mean a couple things that come to mind. I
13:42
Speaker 1: think the Heat have done a much better job. Sure
13:44
Speaker 1: they had that era when Lebron and Wade there, and
13:47
Speaker 1: that certainly helps. But you know how Miami is. You
13:51
Speaker 1: need success and star power. So I don't think that
13:55
Speaker 1: the way that they're doing things is going to lead
13:58
Speaker 1: to butts in seats, right just Hey, I don't think
14:01
Speaker 1: they're going to build a consistent winner with this model,
14:04
Speaker 1: right the Rays they're basically doing exactly what the Rays do,
14:07
Speaker 1: and the comp for the Rays, in addition to being
14:09
Speaker 1: in Saint Petersburg, which I know as a factor, is
14:11
Speaker 1: that they don't build around stars and the Tampa Bay
14:14
Speaker 1: Lightning did. And we see the difference in how those
14:17
Speaker 1: two businesses operate.
14:18
Speaker 2: You go to Tampa and you're like.
14:19
Speaker 1: Wait, it's hockey more popular than baseball in Florida, and
14:22
Speaker 1: it's like, no, nobody plays hockey in Florida. But they
14:25
Speaker 1: end up having this super successful franchise. So I start
14:28
Speaker 1: to think, Okay, I worked in a number of spots
14:30
Speaker 1: in the sports scene down in Miami. The only combination
14:34
Speaker 1: that works is both you need success and star power
14:36
Speaker 1: and then you will get people to show up. It
14:38
Speaker 1: needs to be a party, a vibe. It needs to
14:40
Speaker 1: be of course like the WBC. You're not going to
14:43
Speaker 1: get that, but you need to figure out ways to
14:45
Speaker 1: recreate that. So how would you fix it?
14:48
Speaker 2: I think Number one is continuity and that's something that
14:51
Speaker 2: this organization, this franchise and its entire history, has really
14:54
Speaker 2: never had. And I think you could see some of
14:56
Speaker 2: that now with some of the extensions we spoke about earlier.
14:59
Speaker 2: And then factors are around the ballpark, the infrastructure. If
15:03
Speaker 2: you go to a ballpark, you go to a ballgame
15:04
Speaker 2: at Marlins Park or a loan depot park, I'm sorry,
15:07
Speaker 2: there's not much to do either before the game or
15:09
Speaker 2: after the game. You know, I've covered games on the
15:11
Speaker 2: road at Wrigley Field and there's just you know, infinite
15:14
Speaker 2: things to do after the ball game that fans really
15:17
Speaker 2: like to do. So it's got to be more than
15:18
Speaker 2: just a baseball game. It's got to be an event
15:21
Speaker 2: for teams, for fans who want to go to and
15:23
Speaker 2: I think the Marlins have done a pretty good job
15:24
Speaker 2: of enhancing the ballpark experience. Look for the Nles, it's
15:33
Speaker 2: going to bring more ball, more people, more butts in
15:35
Speaker 2: that in that stadium. So it starts with continuity of
15:39
Speaker 2: your big star players. I think Sanuel Condra is going
15:41
Speaker 2: to be back next year, so that's a big start.
15:42
Speaker 2: That's a good start, and they're gonna have to have
15:44
Speaker 2: some firepower and they're hoping that agu Seen Ramiers and
15:46
Speaker 2: Kyle Stowers can launch home runs for years to come.
15:49
Speaker 2: And they're also working on some construction around the ballpark
15:52
Speaker 2: and some stuff that could probably help with the infrastructure wise,
15:55
Speaker 2: infrastructure side. Cool.
15:57
Speaker 1: I would love to see it. Yeah, I'd love to
15:59
Speaker 1: see it, and I want to get to a game
16:00
Speaker 1: this year. And really of course it's going to be
16:02
Speaker 1: buzzing for the World Baseball Classic right coming very soon
16:05
Speaker 1: to that area. I'm sure you've been for me. The
16:08
Speaker 1: World Baseball Classic in Miami was a crazier scene than
16:12
Speaker 1: any World Series or postseason game I've been to. That's
16:15
Speaker 1: how incredible it is. So you see the electricity, and
16:19
Speaker 1: many people are coming from Miami or places right around Miami.
16:22
Speaker 1: Of course people fly in so anyway, you know, you
16:25
Speaker 1: just wish you sit there and you're like, damn, this
16:27
Speaker 1: place could be lit. So but you know, yeah, Isaac,
16:30
Speaker 1: great to talk to. You really appreciate the time. And
16:33
Speaker 1: Fish on First is the spot if you want to
16:35
Speaker 1: read all of Isaac's work, Fish Unfiltered if you want
16:38
Speaker 1: to listen to him, and you can follow him at
16:40
Speaker 1: Isaac a zuit A z out on Twitter. Oh yeah,
16:44
Speaker 1: and on the way out, if you want to stop by,
16:46
Speaker 1: there's a somewhat new restaurant that's quite popular down there called, she.
16:50
Speaker 2: Said, and win right.
16:53
Speaker 3: Check it out.
16:55
Speaker 2: That's so thank you guys so much for having me.
16:57
Speaker 1: Thank you, Isaac, appreciate you. Here he is, Paulins joining
17:00
Speaker 1: us right now. You can watch his coverage both on
17:04
Speaker 1: the Cleveland Baseball Talk podcast and also of course on
17:07
Speaker 1: Cleveland dot com. Beat writer there, longtime covering Cleveland and
17:10
Speaker 1: recipient of the twenty twenty six BBWAA Career Excellence Award.
17:14
Speaker 1: He's going to be inducted into Cooperstown this summer. So
17:17
Speaker 1: it is great to have you on, Paul, and congratulations
17:19
Speaker 1: on the honor.
17:22
Speaker 6: Thank you, Thanks very much, guys. Thanks.
17:25
Speaker 1: Uh, well, let's get into biz first. Wherever we at
17:28
Speaker 1: with Cleveland so far this offseason.
17:31
Speaker 6: They've been they're on the back burner as usual. They
17:36
Speaker 6: haven't done a whole lot.
17:37
Speaker 4: Uh.
17:37
Speaker 6: They've made a commitment to, you know, go with their
17:41
Speaker 6: young position players. You know, that's why you know, they
17:45
Speaker 6: obviously need some help offensively, but they're going to rely
17:50
Speaker 6: on their young players that they've you know, developed over
17:55
Speaker 6: the last few years. They've made some moves in the
17:58
Speaker 6: bullpend department, added three or four you know free agents.
18:03
Speaker 6: They took a guy in a rule five draft, But
18:07
Speaker 6: basically it's been it's been a pretty quiet offseason for Cleveland.
18:11
Speaker 6: You know, a team that's won the division the last
18:13
Speaker 6: two years.
18:15
Speaker 3: Uh yeah, the last time they were this good, Jason Kipness,
18:19
Speaker 3: Corey Klueber, Lonnie Chisenhall. They went out and got an
18:23
Speaker 3: Edwin and Carnassion. Does the organization think this team?
18:28
Speaker 5: Doesn't?
18:29
Speaker 3: Do they think this team isn't very good? Because Stephen
18:33
Speaker 3: Vote is never gonna say that. Stephen Vote's gonna be
18:36
Speaker 3: the eternal optimist, one of my best friends that is
18:38
Speaker 3: just so positive. He thinks this team is good and
18:41
Speaker 3: he has to convince his players this team is good.
18:44
Speaker 3: Does the organization not think that? Or if they did
18:47
Speaker 3: think that, where would that Edwin and Carnassion move come from?
18:53
Speaker 6: Yeah? I mean, uh, you know the last time they did,
18:55
Speaker 6: you know, the Karnassion deal was what three years, sixty million.
19:00
Speaker 6: That was right after they reached the World Series in
19:03
Speaker 6: two thousand and sixteen, and they have not made that
19:09
Speaker 6: kind of commitment they they you know, it was almost
19:13
Speaker 6: like last season, you know that that was almost like
19:16
Speaker 6: to me at least, it seemed like a step back season,
19:19
Speaker 6: the season to reset and all of a sudden they
19:21
Speaker 6: come back from fifteen and a half games out in July,
19:25
Speaker 6: there's still what eleven games out on September, and they
19:28
Speaker 6: win the division. Kind of it was. It was almost
19:32
Speaker 6: they were as surprised as anybody else. And I think
19:36
Speaker 6: they're still in that same kind of boat. They've they've
19:39
Speaker 6: wanted to make, you know, commit to the young players,
19:43
Speaker 6: and it doesn't seem like they're gonna, you know, deviate
19:47
Speaker 6: from that path.
19:50
Speaker 4: Paul, what's going on? Jason Kidnis here? Longtime listener, first
19:53
Speaker 4: time paller, Good to see you.
19:55
Speaker 6: What's ugh, Kiv? I'm still talking to me.
20:00
Speaker 5: Look at us. I could ask you all the questions now.
20:03
Speaker 6: That's right, This is a little reversal.
20:07
Speaker 5: Yeah, first question, how the hell did you get into
20:09
Speaker 5: the Hall of Fame?
20:11
Speaker 6: I'm asking myself the same question when they told me
20:17
Speaker 6: at the Winter meetings, I almost passed out.
20:20
Speaker 4: Listen, you were there long before me, and you're there
20:23
Speaker 4: long after me. You've been doing it for a long
20:25
Speaker 4: time for Cleveland. I know we've had our riffs and
20:28
Speaker 4: back and forth, but there's always a respect there and
20:30
Speaker 4: I just want to say congratulations to you.
20:32
Speaker 5: That's well deserved. Happy for you.
20:34
Speaker 6: That's awesome, Thanks Jason. I appreciate that. That means a
20:38
Speaker 6: lot to me.
20:40
Speaker 5: What can you tell us?
20:41
Speaker 4: I know there's some rumors I think where we both
20:43
Speaker 4: are well in the know of that Cleveland kind of
20:46
Speaker 4: has to mix and match some pieces, and we were
20:48
Speaker 4: just talking about that. It's not always They're not always
20:50
Speaker 4: in for those big names or those big contract guys.
20:53
Speaker 4: So I'm hearing some rumors between Cleveland and the Cardinals.
20:58
Speaker 4: I think, is there any front on that, whether Donovan's
21:01
Speaker 4: names come up or what can you tell us on
21:02
Speaker 4: that end?
21:03
Speaker 6: Yeah, they have, you know, that name has come up.
21:06
Speaker 6: But again, you know, when we've talked, when we've asked
21:09
Speaker 6: about that, you know, they say they do not want
21:13
Speaker 6: to bring in, you know, a free agent on a
21:16
Speaker 6: two or three year deal to block the path of
21:19
Speaker 6: a young developing player that they've invested in. So you know,
21:24
Speaker 6: I would really you know, I think eventually they'll make
21:27
Speaker 6: a deal. They'll add some you know, a hitter to
21:31
Speaker 6: this lineup at some point, but I don't think it's
21:34
Speaker 6: going to be a high profile guy, Jason, even maybe
21:38
Speaker 6: a mid level guy. I just think I just get
21:42
Speaker 6: that impression.
21:44
Speaker 5: Yeah, I think, Sorry, Eric, I got one more quick
21:47
Speaker 5: follow up.
21:47
Speaker 4: But I think on that one, would you agree that
21:49
Speaker 4: they're still in the same position where they want to
21:52
Speaker 4: see the first half in their big names or big
21:54
Speaker 4: profiles would come at a big deadline trade kind of
21:57
Speaker 4: like a push. They never really do it in the offseason.
21:59
Speaker 4: Be eyes that we've talked about Edwin earlier.
22:02
Speaker 6: Yeah, you know that that that's you know, they are
22:05
Speaker 6: if they're in if they're in position, if they're in contention, Uh,
22:09
Speaker 6: they you they will make moves. I guess the big
22:12
Speaker 6: the name out there right is Steven Kwan. You know
22:15
Speaker 6: that's that's the name they're getting a lot of calls on. Uh, that's,
22:20
Speaker 6: you know, the one player that people want. They came
22:23
Speaker 6: after him at the deadline last last season. Uh, this
22:27
Speaker 6: this winner, it's been the same. But I get the
22:30
Speaker 6: impression that that he's going to be the opening day
22:33
Speaker 6: left fielder for Cleveland on March twenty sixth. Then if
22:37
Speaker 6: there's a you know, depending how the season goes, there
22:41
Speaker 6: could be more activity at the deadline because he's he's
22:45
Speaker 6: only got two years of control left, so as you know,
22:48
Speaker 6: they usually you know, if he hasn't signed an extension
22:52
Speaker 6: by now, that usually means, you know, one way or
22:55
Speaker 6: the other, he's going to be uh leaving Cleveland and
22:59
Speaker 6: then you know, probably within the next two years.
23:03
Speaker 3: What would they look for in return? Since it wasn't
23:05
Speaker 3: gonna be my question, but you're talking about if if
23:09
Speaker 3: they would trade him, if they would trade Stephen Kwan,
23:12
Speaker 3: what type of return do you think where this roster
23:16
Speaker 3: currently is the Guardians need to go to because of
23:21
Speaker 3: they're a playoff team each year. Some people don't know how,
23:24
Speaker 3: but they're a playoff team. A few pieces here and there.
23:29
Speaker 3: Could they beat the Yankees two years ago? Could they
23:32
Speaker 3: beat the Tigers who they outlasted for the division? If
23:35
Speaker 3: they make this Stephen Kwan trade a more big league
23:39
Speaker 3: next three year type of trade and not ooh, save
23:43
Speaker 3: my job for the next six years type of trade.
23:46
Speaker 6: Yeah, they would. You know, that's the tough part when
23:49
Speaker 6: I when I try to think about this, You know,
23:52
Speaker 6: Kwan is probably your second best offensive player next to
23:56
Speaker 6: Jose Ramirez, uh and you you know, you hit two
24:00
Speaker 6: twenty six as a team last year, the lowest team
24:03
Speaker 6: batting average and franchise history that goes back to nineteen
24:07
Speaker 6: oh one. And are you really going to trade that player?
24:11
Speaker 6: And if so, what do you get for him? And
24:14
Speaker 6: do you do you get another offensive player? You know,
24:17
Speaker 6: he's a leadoff hitter. He doesn't hit for a lot
24:20
Speaker 6: of power, you know, he I think he would fit
24:23
Speaker 6: on top of a you know, a really a dynamic
24:26
Speaker 6: offensive team. You know he might be you know that
24:29
Speaker 6: that would probably make him even better. But to get
24:32
Speaker 6: you know, if you if the Guardians had trade him,
24:36
Speaker 6: they would have to get back. I think the one
24:39
Speaker 6: thing they're lacking is it have to be some kind
24:41
Speaker 6: of power, you know. But that's you know, it's just
24:46
Speaker 6: it's a hard it's a hard deal to uh to
24:49
Speaker 6: wrap your head around. I guess you know, you'd have
24:51
Speaker 6: to get back, like you said, for you'd have to
24:54
Speaker 6: get back some immediate players that give you some immediate impact.
24:58
Speaker 6: And you know, I would imagine some prospects.
25:03
Speaker 3: All right, you talked about power. It's seven days till Christmas.
25:07
Speaker 3: John Kenzie Noel just got designated as we're talking here yesterday.
25:12
Speaker 3: And it's ironic that Luke Weaver, who we hit the
25:16
Speaker 3: huge home run in the playoffs off of signs a
25:19
Speaker 3: two year, twenty two million dollar deal in the same
25:21
Speaker 3: day that he gets designated. Did they get the most
25:25
Speaker 3: out of John Kenzie. No, well, because of the fact
25:28
Speaker 3: that they called him up, you know, he filled in
25:31
Speaker 3: some roles. Or did they miss on the fact that
25:33
Speaker 3: he has light tower power and they weren't able to
25:37
Speaker 3: implement it in the big leagues well enough for him
25:41
Speaker 3: to stick and be a big part of that power
25:44
Speaker 3: that they're lacking.
25:45
Speaker 6: Yeah, that's a good question, and I always go back
25:48
Speaker 6: and forth. Jason knows, is that they platooned so much
25:54
Speaker 6: in this organization with the with the lineup, you know,
25:57
Speaker 6: there's only two or three guys that play every day.
26:00
Speaker 6: And you know, with with with John Kenzie being a
26:04
Speaker 6: young guy, big guy, big swing, it's hard for him
26:10
Speaker 6: to come. To me, it was hard for him to
26:12
Speaker 6: really get into a groove. Now in twenty twenty four,
26:15
Speaker 6: I thought they use him a lot better than they did.
26:17
Speaker 6: But of course he had better numbers in twenty twenty four.
26:21
Speaker 6: But to me, they they have such they have so
26:24
Speaker 6: many outfielders and they and they mix and match every
26:27
Speaker 6: day that you know, the players sometimes you know, there's
26:33
Speaker 6: they can't get in a groove. They they're in and
26:36
Speaker 6: out of the lineup so frequently that that I think,
26:39
Speaker 6: you know, it as a team for team wise, it works,
26:43
Speaker 6: you know, wins and losses, it works, But some players
26:46
Speaker 6: suffer in that in that uh you know, in that arrangement.
26:51
Speaker 5: No, you're absolutely right.
26:52
Speaker 4: I think if you don't get those every day at
26:53
Speaker 4: bats or or know that you're still going to be
26:56
Speaker 4: in the lineup after or no for four, you start
26:58
Speaker 4: kind of pressing and grinding a little bit too much
27:00
Speaker 4: and you never really find that groove that can set
27:02
Speaker 4: you forward and give you the confidence to become a
27:04
Speaker 4: better version of yourself. I guess I want to ask
27:07
Speaker 4: you what would it take? Because I think some of
27:10
Speaker 4: the best Cleveland has have and I think you're gonna
27:12
Speaker 4: agree with me on this, some of their successes almost
27:15
Speaker 4: hurt them in the long run because they have made
27:17
Speaker 4: it to the playoffs, been almost right there without making
27:20
Speaker 4: that big splash move, without spending that money. So the
27:23
Speaker 4: ownership really doesn't think that they ever have to, because
27:25
Speaker 4: I think they're fine, but it seems like until they do,
27:28
Speaker 4: they're not going to get over that hump, and they're
27:29
Speaker 4: always goind of to be stuck in this middle middle
27:32
Speaker 4: ground with a fan wanting them to spend more.
27:35
Speaker 5: What would it take for a reset. What is it
27:37
Speaker 5: going to take where.
27:39
Speaker 4: What would Jose Ramirez trade do for this franchise or
27:43
Speaker 4: what what would when would it come to that point
27:45
Speaker 4: to where Kwan and Ramirez and you really just reset,
27:48
Speaker 4: because if you're not going to spend money, you might
27:50
Speaker 4: as well retool and restock and those two guys can
27:53
Speaker 4: give you the biggest packages back.
27:55
Speaker 6: Yeah, I uh, there might be a revolt in Cleveland
27:58
Speaker 6: if they I.
27:59
Speaker 5: Hear you, as they should be, as they should be.
28:02
Speaker 4: All we all love him, but he definitely has with
28:05
Speaker 4: his contract, could bring back uh Yayhood Hall.
28:09
Speaker 6: But they are in a position, Jason, and you know
28:13
Speaker 6: this haven't played there for so long that they feel
28:16
Speaker 6: they cannot take it down to uh you know, the foundation.
28:21
Speaker 6: They cannot do a total rebuild here. That's you know,
28:25
Speaker 6: kind of been their claim to fame that every year
28:28
Speaker 6: they put a consistent good team on the field. Uh
28:32
Speaker 6: you know, it might not be a name filled with
28:35
Speaker 6: a household player household names, but they they're able to
28:39
Speaker 6: produce or in the right division for them, Uh, they
28:43
Speaker 6: have a chance to win it every year. And I think,
28:46
Speaker 6: uh the front office has taken that approach and and
28:50
Speaker 6: as you said, yeah, it can get you the division title,
28:53
Speaker 6: it can get you into the postseason. But then you know,
28:57
Speaker 6: you always run into the Yankees. And you know the
29:00
Speaker 6: last time they ran into the Yankees in the ALCS
29:03
Speaker 6: in twenty twenty four, I think they got out homeered
29:06
Speaker 6: like ten to four, you know, and and to me,
29:09
Speaker 6: that's where they get caught short. That's where the power
29:13
Speaker 6: and the difference in talent comes to play. And you
29:16
Speaker 6: know they're their thinking is if we you know, as
29:21
Speaker 6: you know, if you if you get to if you
29:23
Speaker 6: keep getting to the postseason, one of these years, things
29:26
Speaker 6: are going to break your way. But you know it
29:28
Speaker 6: is really you know, it's it's one thing to win
29:31
Speaker 6: the division. It's it's another thing to you know, take
29:34
Speaker 6: the next step in advance to the World Series and
29:36
Speaker 6: finally win the World Series.
29:39
Speaker 3: All right, Yeah, two questions for you, Paul are about you.
29:44
Speaker 3: You've been with the Cleveland Baseball organization writing about them
29:49
Speaker 3: for a long time. How many times do you still
29:52
Speaker 3: type in the Cleveland Indians Cleveland Guardians Because even Hall
29:58
Speaker 3: of famers make mistakes.
30:01
Speaker 6: I've made more than Just ask Kipness.
30:03
Speaker 4: He'll tell you we don't have enough time on the show.
30:08
Speaker 6: I ended up in Lake Gary with one of them.
30:11
Speaker 6: But no, I still find myself type in Indians. I
30:15
Speaker 6: still you know, you know, we write our own headlines
30:18
Speaker 6: now and I'm still writing Indians and Tribe, and in
30:22
Speaker 6: the headlines it's a it's a tongue twister for me.
30:26
Speaker 3: Okay, So then that brings me the next question. You've
30:29
Speaker 3: covered baseball this whole time? How hard is it to
30:32
Speaker 3: stay positive? Because baseball I hate when people say baseball
30:36
Speaker 3: is a game of failure because I see so many positives,
30:39
Speaker 3: even in outs, even in mistake pitches, even in errors.
30:44
Speaker 3: But that's just the coach and me and the positive
30:47
Speaker 3: baseball player and me. How hard is it to stay
30:49
Speaker 3: positive as a writer that covers a baseball game for
30:54
Speaker 3: one hundred and sixty two games.
30:57
Speaker 6: It's not hard for me. I like the game. I
31:00
Speaker 6: like the game because everything every day is different. You know,
31:04
Speaker 6: there's there's a different story, there's a different theme. You
31:07
Speaker 6: can talk to different players. You know, there's gonna be
31:09
Speaker 6: some bad games, obviously, some bad winning streaks, bad losing streaks,
31:13
Speaker 6: winning streaks, you know, but there's usually always something to
31:17
Speaker 6: write about, always something to have a little fun with,
31:20
Speaker 6: to inject some humor in in it not, you know,
31:24
Speaker 6: staying positive. You know, that's I think that's easy, easy
31:29
Speaker 6: for the writer. I think it's I think the tough
31:32
Speaker 6: part is staying positive. If if you're a player and
31:35
Speaker 6: you're struggling and and you're you know, you're you're you know,
31:38
Speaker 6: you're on a losing streak, you know you're not getting
31:41
Speaker 6: enough playing time. You know, I marvel at at the uh,
31:45
Speaker 6: the mental approach that players have, that that that keep
31:48
Speaker 6: them showing up day after day after day. You know,
31:51
Speaker 6: we get days off. The players never get days off.
31:54
Speaker 6: They they got to be at the ballpark every day.
31:57
Speaker 6: And uh, you know, I've I've learned over all these
32:00
Speaker 6: years to really respect that. I respect the skills it takes.
32:05
Speaker 6: And I don't know if I was always like that
32:07
Speaker 6: when I was, you know, first started off, I was
32:09
Speaker 6: more kind of a wise guy at first.
32:14
Speaker 4: Listen, I think I had a lot a lot more
32:17
Speaker 4: bad games than Paul had bad articles. So you've been
32:19
Speaker 4: doing it for a long time, and again, no, you've
32:23
Speaker 4: been doing this for a real long time in your
32:25
Speaker 4: commitment to an organization that both of us love and
32:27
Speaker 4: hold dearly. I do want to show you my appreciation
32:31
Speaker 4: and congratulate you again. I'm making it to all of fame.
32:34
Speaker 6: Thanks Kip. I remember you giving me let me drink
32:37
Speaker 6: out of your champagne bottle in Toronto.
32:40
Speaker 5: Absolutely absolutely, I look forward to seeing you. Hear this.
32:43
Speaker 4: I'm sure we'll cross past this next year too, this
32:45
Speaker 4: next season, so I'll save me another handshaking hug, and
32:49
Speaker 4: I look forward to seeing you again, Bud.
32:51
Speaker 6: Okay, but thanks thanks for having me guys.
32:54
Speaker 1: Thank you, Paul, really appreciate it. Thanks Hans, good talking
32:57
Speaker 1: to you, Thank you. Thanks a lot. We're doing futures
33:01
Speaker 1: bet MGM futures. That's what you do when you miss baseball.
33:04
Speaker 1: You look at what BETMGM thinks will happen in twenty
33:07
Speaker 1: twenty six and the odds against it or for a
33:09
Speaker 1: twenty twenty six and L Pennant. Wow, that's kind of
33:13
Speaker 1: crazy to see the Dodgers at plus one sixty. That's
33:17
Speaker 1: not to win the division, that's to win the National League?
33:23
Speaker 4: Is that that like the lowest odds ever for a
33:25
Speaker 4: team before a season.
33:27
Speaker 1: Gotta be up there, man, one and a half to one.
33:31
Speaker 5: That is nuts.
33:34
Speaker 3: For somebody, For somebody who took down a decent amount
33:38
Speaker 3: of money for the Dodgers winning the National League Pennant,
33:42
Speaker 3: I'm going to tell you to wait, because I got
33:44
Speaker 3: a much better number than that while they were playing
33:47
Speaker 3: the Phillies last year. So if you you get to
33:50
Speaker 3: watch the entire season, and we knew that the Dodgers
33:54
Speaker 3: and the Phillies were probably the two best National League teams,
33:57
Speaker 3: I know, Kip was like, oh, the club is there
33:59
Speaker 3: the best, and everybody in Milwaukee was like, the Brewers
34:03
Speaker 3: are the best. They win the most games. When the
34:06
Speaker 3: Dodgers were playing the Phillies, you had an opportunity to
34:11
Speaker 3: get a really, really good number on the Dodgers, and
34:16
Speaker 3: I took it. And they were never losing in that series.
34:20
Speaker 3: And I took that number. It was better than plus
34:22
Speaker 3: one sixty. So I'm gonna say, no weight. If that
34:27
Speaker 3: is your choice weight, there will be a better.
34:29
Speaker 6: Number, smart man.
34:32
Speaker 1: It's actually a good point. There are often times during
34:35
Speaker 1: the season where many futures look more enticing, and yeah,
34:38
Speaker 1: if you've got playoff thoughts.
34:41
Speaker 2: It's baseball.
34:42
Speaker 1: Almost everybody goes through a high and a low, and
34:45
Speaker 1: sometimes you can cash in during those low points. So
34:48
Speaker 1: I'm not saying the Dodgers are going to start slow.
34:50
Speaker 1: But there are times when you look at a team
34:52
Speaker 1: and be like, Eh, they're pitchings in chambles and I
34:55
Speaker 1: don't know if this is it. I mean the Dodgers
34:58
Speaker 1: had that once or twice this year where you're like,
35:02
Speaker 1: I mean, it's not like they look like a disaster,
35:04
Speaker 1: but you didn't look at them as this lock to
35:06
Speaker 1: win the World Series. And actually you could have put
35:10
Speaker 1: some pretty good money on them in Game six. It
35:15
Speaker 1: would have been nice. Game six World Series, they were
35:17
Speaker 1: probably up to three to one.
35:21
Speaker 3: The ninth of the World Series, you you were could
35:24
Speaker 3: have gotten probably I would say it was probably at
35:27
Speaker 3: like plus six hundred and seven hundred. They were down
35:31
Speaker 3: by a run with two outs to go and Miggy
35:34
Speaker 3: Rowe was on deck. I mean, Miggy Rowe was at
35:37
Speaker 3: the plate. Yeah, you probably you probably got much better numbers,
35:41
Speaker 3: but you're really you're really waiting until the end there.
35:43
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's pushing it. But anyway, during the season, you
35:45
Speaker 1: can find certain value in futures if you like to
35:48
Speaker 1: do it that way. It's almost like live betting in
35:51
Speaker 1: a game of kind of doing that during the course
35:52
Speaker 1: of a season. But for now, Yeah, I'm not touching
35:55
Speaker 1: this one, but if you feel like you want to
35:59
Speaker 1: go there, it's not that I don't think it's going
36:01
Speaker 1: to happen. It's just the value. It's just too low
36:04
Speaker 1: in our minds, and we're just giving you our thoughts. Anyway,
36:06
Speaker 1: Let's get to football. No Sweat token available for you
36:09
Speaker 1: in the bet MGM app to use on any bet
36:12
Speaker 1: on pro football, and you can use it by adding
36:15
Speaker 1: a little bet to your slip, activating the token and
36:18
Speaker 1: getting bonus bets at the bet that you made with
36:20
Speaker 1: that token. Loses gambling problem more concern called one in
36:23
Speaker 1: hundred gambler