Latest / Something Extra / The Beauty and the Beast of AI: Cybersecurity Insights w/ Andrew Wilder

Transcript

The Beauty and the Beast of AI: Cybersecurity Insights w/ Andrew Wilder · Something Extra

• 0:00
  Andrew Wilder: So, again, I I'm gonna give a quote from one of my mentors who
• 0:04
  Andrew Wilder: told me, no one is ever going to care more about your career
• 0:08
  Andrew Wilder: than you do.
• 0:10
  Andrew Wilder: So what I would say is figure out what is what is the job
• 0:14
  Andrew Wilder: or the career that you want.
• 0:16
  Andrew Wilder: Figure out what the gaps or opportunities that you have to get there.
• 0:20
  Andrew Wilder: Like, go read the job description and say, hey.
• 0:22
  Andrew Wilder: I'm really good at this.
• 0:23
  Andrew Wilder: I'm okay at this.
• 0:24
  Andrew Wilder: I'm not so great at this.
• 0:25
  Andrew Wilder: And for any of the things that you're not so great, create a development
• 0:28
  Andrew Wilder: plan for yourself and go and start doing those things.
• 0:34
  Lisa Nichols: It takes something a little more to lead with impact.
• 0:38
  Lisa Nichols: I'm Lisa Nichols, author of Something Extra, and this podcast
• 0:42
  Lisa Nichols: was inspired by our daughter, Allie, whose additional chromosome has shaped
• 0:47
  Lisa Nichols: how I see people in leadership.
• 0:49
  Lisa Nichols: Each episode features conversations with inspiring leaders from around the world
• 0:54
  Lisa Nichols: about what truly defines how they lead and serve others.
• 0:58
  Lisa Nichols: If you enjoyed today's conversation, please consider leaving a five
• 1:02
  Lisa Nichols: star review.
• 1:03
  Lisa Nichols: It helps more people discover the show.
• 1:06
  Lisa Nichols: And if you'd like to go deeper, my book, Something Extra, is available on
• 1:09
  Lisa Nichols: Amazon and through other major book retailers.
• 1:14
  Lisa Nichols: Today, our guest is Andrew Wilder, a veteran cybersecurity leader with
• 1:18
  Lisa Nichols: over two decades of experience navigating the digital landscapes of global
• 1:22
  Lisa Nichols: giants like Nestle and Hillenbrand.
• 1:24
  Lisa Nichols: Currently serving as the chief security officer at Vetcor, Andrew is recognized
• 1:29
  Lisa Nichols: for strategic vision and risk management and his dedication to mentoring
• 1:33
  Lisa Nichols: the next generation of IT professionals.
• 1:36
  Lisa Nichols: Well, Andrew Wilder, welcome to the Something Extra podcast.
• 1:39
  Lisa Nichols: I'm so delighted that we can make this work today.
• 1:42
  Andrew Wilder: Thanks, Lisa.
• 1:43
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 1:44
  Lisa Nichols: We've been in the same rooms for a long time together.
• 1:48
  Andrew Wilder: That's true.
• 1:48
  Andrew Wilder: We have.
• 1:50
  Lisa Nichols: Lots of the HMGCIO summits over the years and some other
• 1:54
  Lisa Nichols: rooms.
• 1:55
  Lisa Nichols: And so it's just really fun to welcome you to the podcast.
• 1:58
  Lisa Nichols: But, you know, I mean, Andrew, I was looking I mean, you have
• 2:02
  Lisa Nichols: had, a pretty stellar career in cybersecurity
• 2:08
  Lisa Nichols: for what?
• 2:08
  Lisa Nichols: Over twenty five years.
• 2:10
  Andrew Wilder: Over twenty five years.
• 2:11
  Andrew Wilder: That's right.
• 2:12
  Lisa Nichols: And some really iconic, companies like Bank of America
• 2:16
  Lisa Nichols: and Hewlett Packard.
• 2:17
  Lisa Nichols: You spent eighteen years at Nestle.
• 2:20
  Andrew Wilder: That's right.
• 2:21
  Andrew Wilder: Yep.
• 2:21
  Andrew Wilder: That's that's where I consider that I sort of grew up in my career
• 2:24
  Andrew Wilder: was at Nestle.
• 2:25
  Lisa Nichols: That you grew up there.
• 2:26
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 2:28
  Lisa Nichols: You know, but you know what?
• 2:31
  Lisa Nichols: You know, you've built multiple security systems from scratch.
• 2:35
  Lisa Nichols: Mhmm.
• 2:35
  Lisa Nichols: You've done this multiple times.
• 2:37
  Lisa Nichols: You know, what is it about building from zero, you know,
• 2:41
  Lisa Nichols: to building a a system like that that really energizes you?
• 2:46
  Andrew Wilder: Well, you know, to come into a company that needs cybersecurity
• 2:51
  Andrew Wilder: and realizes that they need it is a very different cultural,
• 2:56
  Andrew Wilder: starting point than to be in a company and then trying to convince
• 3:00
  Andrew Wilder: everyone that they need it.
• 3:02
  Andrew Wilder: Yeah.
• 3:02
  Andrew Wilder: Right?
• 3:03
  Andrew Wilder: You know, at Nestle, we were seeing, I would say, the first half of
• 3:06
  Andrew Wilder: my career, we were really seen as a cost, a necessary cost,
• 3:10
  Andrew Wilder: but just a cost.
• 3:12
  Andrew Wilder: Mhmm.
• 3:12
  Andrew Wilder: And it wasn't until about twenty twelve when,
• 3:16
  Andrew Wilder: you know, attacks and and, and hackers and all that stuff became
• 3:20
  Andrew Wilder: fairly widespread in the news that CEOs and c
• 3:24
  Andrew Wilder: suites and boards started getting interested in cybersecurity.
• 3:28
  Andrew Wilder: And then it was less about me telling people the things that they needed
• 3:32
  Andrew Wilder: to do.
• 3:33
  Andrew Wilder: It became a pull approach where people would come into me and say, hey.
• 3:36
  Andrew Wilder: How can I be more cybersecurity?
• 3:38
  Andrew Wilder: What can I do to fix this?
• 3:39
  Andrew Wilder: So in the last three companies that I've been at, including Vetcor where I'm
• 3:43
  Andrew Wilder: at today, I've come in as the first CISO, and it's
• 3:47
  Andrew Wilder: been in a in a situation where the company realized that they need
• 3:51
  Andrew Wilder: cybersecurity.
• 3:52
  Andrew Wilder: They need cybersecurity leadership.
• 3:54
  Andrew Wilder: And so you have that backing.
• 3:56
  Andrew Wilder: You have that support to be able to build from the ground up, and
• 3:59
  Andrew Wilder: it's exciting to build new teams and create energy and go through the
• 4:03
  Andrew Wilder: norming, forming, and storming, all that sort of stuff.
• 4:06
  Andrew Wilder: So I I don't know.
• 4:07
  Andrew Wilder: It energizes me, and I I'm really happy to be able to do that.
• 4:10
  Andrew Wilder: And it's nice that I've kinda developed that skill set now.
• 4:13
  Andrew Wilder: It's a it's a fun thing.
• 4:14
  Lisa Nichols: You're kind of a go to guy.
• 4:16
  Lisa Nichols: You know?
• 4:16
  Lisa Nichols: And, I mean, as you were talking, Andrew, I was thinking, there are companies
• 4:20
  Lisa Nichols: that think, oh, it's a you know, it's just a cost.
• 4:23
  Andrew Wilder: Yeah.
• 4:24
  Lisa Nichols: But it is so important.
• 4:26
  Lisa Nichols: Isn't I mean, it really is.
• 4:27
  Lisa Nichols: If you don't have a cybersecurity program, call Andrew.
• 4:32
  Lisa Nichols: Call somebody because you definitely need someone.
• 4:35
  Lisa Nichols: You know, you need that.
• 4:36
  Lisa Nichols: It's protecting your data and your IP.
• 4:40
  Lisa Nichols: It's, it's really paramount.
• 4:42
  Lisa Nichols: But, Andrew, let me ask you this because I'm sure you've had like
• 4:47
  Lisa Nichols: I said, you've had this illustrious career for over twenty five years.
• 4:50
  Lisa Nichols: What did success look like to early, Andrew,
• 4:54
  Lisa Nichols: in those younger days?
• 4:56
  Andrew Wilder: That's a great question.
• 4:57
  Andrew Wilder: You know, I never thought that I would be a chief information security officer.
• 5:01
  Andrew Wilder: I I didn't I didn't really imagine that for myself.
• 5:05
  Andrew Wilder: I I knew that I wanted to be a leader, and I was a
• 5:08
  Andrew Wilder: leader from the beginning.
• 5:09
  Andrew Wilder: And I knew that I wanted to be a good leader for my team.
• 5:12
  Andrew Wilder: And it was also probably about halfway through my career that I really transitioned
• 5:16
  Andrew Wilder: from being what I would call a manager to a leader.
• 5:20
  Andrew Wilder: Mhmm.
• 5:20
  Andrew Wilder: So as a manager, I would tell people what to do.
• 5:24
  Andrew Wilder: I would say, hey.
• 5:24
  Andrew Wilder: This is the smart thing to do.
• 5:26
  Andrew Wilder: This is what we're gonna do.
• 5:27
  Andrew Wilder: And, I I love the quote from Steve Jobs where he says, we don't
• 5:31
  Andrew Wilder: hire great people to tell them what to do.
• 5:33
  Andrew Wilder: We hire great people to tell us what to do.
• 5:36
  Andrew Wilder: And it was it was during that kinda midpoint of my career that I
• 5:40
  Andrew Wilder: realized, hey.
• 5:41
  Andrew Wilder: I need to listen.
• 5:42
  Andrew Wilder: I'm I'm hiring great people for a reason.
• 5:44
  Andrew Wilder: I need to listen to them.
• 5:45
  Andrew Wilder: And I also got into the mindset of kind of agile,
• 5:49
  Andrew Wilder: eighty percent and iterate, allowing people to fail fast and learn fast,
• 5:54
  Andrew Wilder: make mistakes.
• 5:56
  Andrew Wilder: That's really how we learn.
• 5:57
  Andrew Wilder: Now, obviously, in cybersecurity, you don't wanna be making big mistakes.
• 6:00
  Andrew Wilder: But in areas where they could, I love to let people try crazy ideas.
• 6:05
  Andrew Wilder: And even it might sound crazy to me, sometimes for them, it would work
• 6:08
  Andrew Wilder: out into something really amazing.
• 6:10
  Andrew Wilder: So, I I think that's that's kind of the transition for me was that
• 6:14
  Andrew Wilder: midpoint in my career when I transitioned from a manager to a leader.
• 6:17
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 6:18
  Lisa Nichols: I love that.
• 6:18
  Lisa Nichols: There's a big difference.
• 6:20
  Lisa Nichols: There's a big difference.
• 6:21
  Lisa Nichols: So we talked about this, but you spent eighteen years at Nestle, another
• 6:25
  Lisa Nichols: iconic company.
• 6:27
  Lisa Nichols: We had the blessing of doing business with Nestle for many, many
• 6:31
  Lisa Nichols: years.
• 6:31
  Lisa Nichols: But what made you say, Andrew, okay.
• 6:35
  Lisa Nichols: It's time to walk away from Nestle after eighteen years?
• 6:38
  Andrew Wilder: Yeah.
• 6:38
  Andrew Wilder: That's a that's actually a an interesting part of the story.
• 6:41
  Andrew Wilder: So, I just had, my son,
• 6:45
  Andrew Wilder: and I had taken he was born in in, twenty twelve and or twenty
• 6:50
  Andrew Wilder: twenty one.
• 6:50
  Andrew Wilder: In fact, he's five years old today.
• 6:52
  Andrew Wilder: Happy birthday, Enzo.
• 6:54
  Lisa Nichols: Happy birthday, Enzo.
• 6:56
  Andrew Wilder: And, and I had taken some paternity leave, so I got about two months
• 7:00
  Andrew Wilder: off.
• 7:01
  Andrew Wilder: And I came back, and, you know, I was I was the the regional
• 7:05
  Andrew Wilder: CSO of America's Asia and Europe.
• 7:08
  Andrew Wilder: So I was working fourteen, sixteen hour days.
• 7:12
  Andrew Wilder: You know, Mondays and Fridays were okay, but, you know, Tuesday, Wednesday,
• 7:16
  Andrew Wilder: Thursday was just a nightmare.
• 7:18
  Andrew Wilder: And it was a great role.
• 7:19
  Andrew Wilder: I mean, I loved what I was doing.
• 7:21
  Andrew Wilder: I loved my team.
• 7:22
  Andrew Wilder: I loved my peers.
• 7:23
  Andrew Wilder: I loved the company.
• 7:24
  Andrew Wilder: And I had a real heart to heart with my with my boss who
• 7:28
  Andrew Wilder: was the global CISO, John.
• 7:29
  Andrew Wilder: He's still there.
• 7:31
  Andrew Wilder: And he said, look, Andrew.
• 7:32
  Andrew Wilder: He said, your next your next move in your career is my role,
• 7:37
  Andrew Wilder: and I'm not going anywhere.
• 7:39
  Andrew Wilder: So let me help you to find the next place for
• 7:43
  Andrew Wilder: you.
• 7:44
  Andrew Wilder: I will be heartbroken to lose you, but I wanna do the right thing
• 7:47
  Andrew Wilder: for you as a as a person.
• 7:49
  Andrew Wilder: And so he did.
• 7:49
  Andrew Wilder: He helped me to find a a global CISO role at Hillenbrand, which is
• 7:53
  Andrew Wilder: a manufacturing company, and it was my first time, you know, doing it on
• 7:56
  Andrew Wilder: my own, as we said, building it from scratch.
• 7:59
  Andrew Wilder: But it was an amazing thing to have a leader who was that selfless
• 8:04
  Andrew Wilder: to be able to see what was next for me and what I needed
• 8:08
  Andrew Wilder: and help me to make that transition.
• 8:09
  Andrew Wilder: So it was really, really, really a special part of my story.
• 8:13
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 8:14
  Lisa Nichols: That is a great story.
• 8:15
  Lisa Nichols: I love that.
• 8:16
  Lisa Nichols: And thank you, John.
• 8:17
  Andrew Wilder: Yes.
• 8:17
  Andrew Wilder: Thank you, John.
• 8:18
  Lisa Nichols: Thank you, John, for seeing you.
• 8:20
  Lisa Nichols: Right?
• 8:20
  Lisa Nichols: And, that's wonderful.
• 8:22
  Lisa Nichols: Well okay.
• 8:23
  Lisa Nichols: So I know this was one of your favorite subjects, and that's Enzo.
• 8:27
  Andrew Wilder: Yeah.
• 8:28
  Lisa Nichols: And you said that you call it, you're a different kind of dad.
• 8:31
  Lisa Nichols: It's kinda like the second act dad.
• 8:34
  Andrew Wilder: Yes.
• 8:34
  Lisa Nichols: Because you got two adult children and, Enzo's five.
• 8:38
  Andrew Wilder: Yeah.
• 8:39
  Lisa Nichols: So what changed for you?
• 8:41
  Lisa Nichols: I mean, just was it the hours and just knowing that you did not
• 8:44
  Lisa Nichols: wanna work those hours again, being more present?
• 8:47
  Andrew Wilder: I think that was a big part of it.
• 8:49
  Andrew Wilder: I, you know, I my goal is to be as present with him as
• 8:53
  Andrew Wilder: as possible.
• 8:54
  Andrew Wilder: You know that book, How to Win Friends and Influence People?
• 8:58
  Lisa Nichols: Mhmm.
• 8:58
  Lisa Nichols: Yes.
• 8:59
  Lisa Nichols: Dale Carnegie.
• 8:59
  Andrew Wilder: Yeah.
• 9:00
  Andrew Wilder: One of one of my favorite books.
• 9:02
  Andrew Wilder: So in chapter two of that book, he reads this poem that
• 9:06
  Andrew Wilder: was super popular in the nineteen thirties and translated
• 9:10
  Andrew Wilder: into hundreds of languages and read all over the world, and it's called A
• 9:14
  Andrew Wilder: Father's Lament.
• 9:15
  Andrew Wilder: I'm pretty sure that's the name of it.
• 9:16
  Andrew Wilder: Mhmm.
• 9:17
  Andrew Wilder: Basically, the story is, you know, there's this father.
• 9:19
  Andrew Wilder: He's very busy.
• 9:20
  Andrew Wilder: You know, he gives his his son a hard time.
• 9:23
  Andrew Wilder: You know, you're putting your elbows on the table.
• 9:25
  Andrew Wilder: You're not brushing your teeth.
• 9:27
  Andrew Wilder: You know, your your knees are dirty on your pants.
• 9:29
  Andrew Wilder: And then the son, you know, before before he the son goes to bed,
• 9:32
  Andrew Wilder: he comes and gives a big hug, and he's busy reading his newspaper.
• 9:36
  Andrew Wilder: And it kinda hits him.
• 9:37
  Andrew Wilder: And then he goes up to the room of his young son, and he
• 9:40
  Andrew Wilder: sits by his bed.
• 9:41
  Andrew Wilder: And he says,
• 9:43
  Andrew Wilder: I've been measuring you with the yardstick of a man, and
• 9:48
  Andrew Wilder: I have to remember you're just a little boy.
• 9:50
  Andrew Wilder: You're just a little boy.
• 9:52
  Andrew Wilder: You're just a little boy.
• 9:53
  Andrew Wilder: And rereading that, and at the time having a three year old,
• 9:58
  Andrew Wilder: son, it just hit me right in the chest, Lisa.
• 10:00
  Lisa Nichols: Mhmm.
• 10:00
  Andrew Wilder: And I realized
• 10:03
  Andrew Wilder: every time he asked me to do something, my answer is going to
• 10:07
  Andrew Wilder: be yes.
• 10:08
  Andrew Wilder: Yeah.
• 10:08
  Andrew Wilder: Unless it's a safety thing, of course.
• 10:10
  Lisa Nichols: Right.
• 10:10
  Andrew Wilder: Right.
• 10:11
  Andrew Wilder: You know, every time he says, daddy, can we play this or can we
• 10:14
  Andrew Wilder: do this?
• 10:14
  Andrew Wilder: It's yes.
• 10:15
  Andrew Wilder: I I wanna enjoy every moment with him and and treasure
• 10:19
  Andrew Wilder: that and and give him that kind of nurturing and love that he needs
• 10:23
  Andrew Wilder: and not be diving into my phone or answering emails or
• 10:27
  Andrew Wilder: whatever it is.
• 10:28
  Andrew Wilder: And so that's the priority for me is spending time with my with my
• 10:31
  Andrew Wilder: son and with my family.
• 10:33
  Lisa Nichols: Right.
• 10:33
  Lisa Nichols: Well and it goes so fast, Andrew.
• 10:35
  Andrew Wilder: Yes.
• 10:36
  Andrew Wilder: That's right.
• 10:36
  Lisa Nichols: Two adult children.
• 10:37
  Lisa Nichols: I mean, it's like you blink your eye, and they're a teenager.
• 10:41
  Lisa Nichols: Right?
• 10:42
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 10:43
  Lisa Nichols: So I just I love I love that.
• 10:46
  Lisa Nichols: You know?
• 10:46
  Lisa Nichols: And, I mean, we've all I I mean, I've been there too.
• 10:50
  Lisa Nichols: I just think about when we were building our company.
• 10:53
  Lisa Nichols: I mean, there's sacrifices.
• 10:54
  Lisa Nichols: Our family made sacrifices.
• 10:56
  Lisa Nichols: Right?
• 10:56
  Lisa Nichols: Our children made sacrifices.
• 10:57
  Lisa Nichols: And you do get to that point where you're just like, I'm just not
• 11:01
  Lisa Nichols: willing to do that anymore.
• 11:02
  Lisa Nichols: You sacrifice my family for whatever it is.
• 11:05
  Lisa Nichols: There's nothing too, too grandiose, you know, to to
• 11:09
  Lisa Nichols: substitute your family.
• 11:10
  Lisa Nichols: So how do you think fatherhood
• 11:15
  Lisa Nichols: has reshaped how you lead?
• 11:17
  Andrew Wilder: I I think it definitely has.
• 11:19
  Andrew Wilder: I think one of the things that I that I've struggled with in my
• 11:23
  Andrew Wilder: career,
• 11:25
  Andrew Wilder: this this is really, gonna be honest here, is is empathy.
• 11:29
  Andrew Wilder: And I think I think fatherhood gives me more empathy.
• 11:34
  Andrew Wilder: I don't I don't see my team as my children.
• 11:37
  Andrew Wilder: I I mean, I really see them as my peers.
• 11:39
  Andrew Wilder: But, you know, being being a father and having empathy for your children and
• 11:43
  Andrew Wilder: seeing them as kind of you, you know, two point o and watching them
• 11:47
  Andrew Wilder: grow, I think that does give us more empathy towards others.
• 11:52
  Andrew Wilder: And I hope that that translates well to my team.
• 11:55
  Andrew Wilder: You know, I I'm I've done this many times.
• 11:58
  Andrew Wilder: I've got lots of experience.
• 11:59
  Andrew Wilder: I know how to do things fairly well in the cybersecurity side, so I
• 12:03
  Andrew Wilder: might come across sometimes as kind of a steamroller.
• 12:05
  Andrew Wilder: But I really I really try to to sit back to let other people
• 12:09
  Andrew Wilder: give their ideas.
• 12:10
  Andrew Wilder: I really believe in that kind of diversity of thought.
• 12:13
  Andrew Wilder: Mhmm.
• 12:13
  Andrew Wilder: And, and it's hard for me sometimes to hold my tongue or or not,
• 12:17
  Andrew Wilder: not jump all over ideas.
• 12:19
  Andrew Wilder: But, I think that empathy helps us to to be better leaders and kinda
• 12:23
  Andrew Wilder: sit back sometimes.
• 12:24
  Lisa Nichols: Right.
• 12:25
  Lisa Nichols: You know, that's funny that you mentioned hold holding your tongue because I talk
• 12:28
  Lisa Nichols: about in my book something extra, the very first chapter is humility.
• 12:32
  Andrew Wilder: Yes.
• 12:33
  Lisa Nichols: And one of the one of the things that oftentimes a leader
• 12:37
  Lisa Nichols: has to struggle with, Andrew, is you do think you have the answer or
• 12:40
  Lisa Nichols: you have the way that Ford.
• 12:42
  Lisa Nichols: Right?
• 12:42
  Lisa Nichols: And sometimes you just have to bite your tongue and let your team talk
• 12:45
  Lisa Nichols: first.
• 12:45
  Lisa Nichols: And I heard somebody say recently, she has a lot of scars on her
• 12:49
  Lisa Nichols: tongue.
• 12:51
  Andrew Wilder: I've never heard that.
• 12:52
  Lisa Nichols: And I thought that was really funny.
• 12:54
  Lisa Nichols: I'm like, okay.
• 12:55
  Lisa Nichols: You know, I want a lot of scars on my tongue too because, yeah,
• 12:59
  Lisa Nichols: that's that's funny.
• 13:00
  Lisa Nichols: Well, you already mentioned this, but I know that one of your practices and
• 13:04
  Lisa Nichols: one of your disciplines is no phone or zero phone taste.
• 13:09
  Andrew Wilder: Yes.
• 13:09
  Andrew Wilder: Yeah.
• 13:09
  Andrew Wilder: Yeah.
• 13:10
  Lisa Nichols: Now tell us about that, Andrew.
• 13:13
  Lisa Nichols: Boy, how hard is that?
• 13:15
  Andrew Wilder: It's pretty hard.
• 13:16
  Andrew Wilder: You gotta so one of my one of my friends inspired me
• 13:20
  Andrew Wilder: to do this because he did it on his birthday.
• 13:22
  Andrew Wilder: And, one thing you gotta do, and he didn't do this, is he didn't
• 13:26
  Andrew Wilder: tell anybody who's gonna do it.
• 13:28
  Andrew Wilder: And so people are you know, it's his birthday, and people are calling him
• 13:30
  Andrew Wilder: over and over and over.
• 13:31
  Andrew Wilder: He can't reach him, and they're worried about what's going on.
• 13:33
  Andrew Wilder: So I told my older kids ahead of time, like, I'm gonna do this.
• 13:37
  Andrew Wilder: And then I told my wife and and and so in the morning, I
• 13:40
  Andrew Wilder: said, okay.
• 13:40
  Andrew Wilder: I'm not gonna do my phone at all today.
• 13:42
  Andrew Wilder: I I learned this phrase recently called fubbing.
• 13:47
  Andrew Wilder: You know what fubbing is?
• 13:48
  Lisa Nichols: Have no idea.
• 13:49
  Andrew Wilder: Fubbing is phone snubbing.
• 13:52
  Andrew Wilder: So it's the it's the verb for when a parent is looking at
• 13:56
  Andrew Wilder: their phone and their kid is talking to them, hey, mommy, daddy.
• 13:59
  Andrew Wilder: I wanna do this thing, and the parent's just locked into the phone.
• 14:02
  Andrew Wilder: That's called fubbing.
• 14:02
  Andrew Wilder: And, actually, having a word for it makes it more real to me.
• 14:06
  Andrew Wilder: So, you know, you can do it.
• 14:09
  Andrew Wilder: Anybody can do it.
• 14:09
  Andrew Wilder: And especially, you know, I I I know I don't care how demanding your
• 14:13
  Andrew Wilder: job is.
• 14:13
  Andrew Wilder: Especially on Saturdays or Sundays, you can do it.
• 14:16
  Andrew Wilder: Yes.
• 14:16
  Andrew Wilder: There's also ways that people could reach you in emergency.
• 14:19
  Andrew Wilder: So, like, you know you know, someone could call your spouse or your partner
• 14:23
  Andrew Wilder: or your friend or whatever and say, hey.
• 14:25
  Andrew Wilder: We have an emergency at work.
• 14:26
  Andrew Wilder: We really need you to jump in.
• 14:28
  Andrew Wilder: Okay.
• 14:28
  Andrew Wilder: Fine.
• 14:29
  Andrew Wilder: So I'll I'll break my zero phone date.
• 14:30
  Andrew Wilder: But, it's it's very refreshing.
• 14:33
  Andrew Wilder: And you realize that, hey.
• 14:34
  Andrew Wilder: We used to live our lives before we were, you know, super connected all
• 14:37
  Andrew Wilder: the time, and it was fine.
• 14:38
  Lisa Nichols: And it was fine.
• 14:40
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 14:41
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 14:42
  Lisa Nichols: That is so true.
• 14:43
  Lisa Nichols: I mean, I remember,
• 14:45
  Lisa Nichols: Andrew.
• 14:47
  Lisa Nichols: Just funny story.
• 14:47
  Lisa Nichols: I,
• 14:49
  Lisa Nichols: I cooped.
• 14:50
  Lisa Nichols: I was an intern at McDonald Douglas, originally from from Kentucky
• 14:55
  Andrew Wilder: Uh-huh.
• 14:55
  Lisa Nichols: Cooped.
• 14:56
  Lisa Nichols: And one time, I was driving home after work to
• 15:00
  Lisa Nichols: Kentucky, and I got completely lost.
• 15:03
  Lisa Nichols: You know?
• 15:04
  Lisa Nichols: And so I'm, like, just looking for a place to pull over to get
• 15:07
  Lisa Nichols: the the, you know, the put the quarter in the phone.
• 15:10
  Andrew Wilder: Yes.
• 15:11
  Andrew Wilder: Yeah.
• 15:11
  Lisa Nichols: I mean, people don't even remember having to do that, but I didn't have
• 15:15
  Lisa Nichols: the GPS.
• 15:15
  Lisa Nichols: I didn't have any of that.
• 15:17
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 15:17
  Lisa Nichols: And we survived.
• 15:18
  Andrew Wilder: Yeah.
• 15:19
  Andrew Wilder: I had the Thomas guide.
• 15:20
  Andrew Wilder: Right?
• 15:20
  Andrew Wilder: I would whip that thing out and
• 15:22
  Lisa Nichols: Yes.
• 15:22
  Andrew Wilder: Go to page, you know, thirty three and look at quadrant h five and,
• 15:26
  Andrew Wilder: you know, find where it's supposed to go.
• 15:28
  Lisa Nichols: Oh, no.
• 15:29
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 15:30
  Lisa Nichols: It's just completely foreign though, I think, to our kids today.
• 15:34
  Lisa Nichols: Well, I love that you, you know, you talked about,
• 15:39
  Lisa Nichols: going from manager to leader.
• 15:41
  Lisa Nichols: You know, where do you think leaders get this wrong sometimes?
• 15:45
  Lisa Nichols: Like, managing, like, managing people versus leading people.
• 15:48
  Andrew Wilder: Yeah.
• 15:49
  Andrew Wilder: So, two two things I've seen where leaders get this wrong.
• 15:53
  Andrew Wilder: One is to surround yourself with yes people.
• 15:58
  Andrew Wilder: And a great example of how to not do that was Abraham Lincoln.
• 16:02
  Andrew Wilder: So I'm sure you know this, but Abraham Lincoln, once he was elected president,
• 16:06
  Andrew Wilder: his whole cabinet were all people that had run against him.
• 16:11
  Andrew Wilder: So he wanted people who had an opposite point of view to help, you
• 16:15
  Andrew Wilder: know, bounce all of his ideas off.
• 16:17
  Andrew Wilder: In fact, in our IT executive group, we have a rule called
• 16:21
  Andrew Wilder: obligation to dissent.
• 16:23
  Andrew Wilder: So when someone gives an idea, at least one person has say, hey.
• 16:26
  Andrew Wilder: Here's a reason I think that might not be a good idea to help
• 16:29
  Andrew Wilder: everybody kinda think about it.
• 16:31
  Andrew Wilder: So that's one.
• 16:32
  Andrew Wilder: And the other thing I think is is really leaning on using
• 16:36
  Andrew Wilder: authority to do things.
• 16:38
  Andrew Wilder: Right?
• 16:39
  Andrew Wilder: That should not be the reason that people are doing things because of
• 16:43
  Andrew Wilder: fear or your authority.
• 16:45
  Andrew Wilder: It should really be, like, you're leading with a vision.
• 16:48
  Andrew Wilder: You're inspiring people to say, hey, here's how we wanna go.
• 16:51
  Andrew Wilder: Go.
• 16:52
  Andrew Wilder: And and then get them on board with your vision and and your goal,
• 16:56
  Andrew Wilder: and not, you know, pushing people or threatening or any any kind of, you
• 17:00
  Andrew Wilder: know, fear or anything negative.
• 17:02
  Andrew Wilder: And, certainly, you see those in business all the time.
• 17:05
  Andrew Wilder: You see people who who lead in those ways, and that's not the right
• 17:08
  Andrew Wilder: way to do it.
• 17:08
  Andrew Wilder: You know?
• 17:09
  Andrew Wilder: I I've I've been I've worked for leaders who are wonderful and leaders
• 17:13
  Andrew Wilder: who are absolutely awful, and it's a great lesson of how not to do
• 17:16
  Andrew Wilder: it when you see the second one.
• 17:18
  Lisa Nichols: For sure.
• 17:18
  Lisa Nichols: Well, you know, and John Maxwell calls it positional leadership.
• 17:22
  Andrew Wilder: Mhmm.
• 17:22
  Lisa Nichols: Positional leadership, when you look at the five levels of leadership, Andrew,
• 17:26
  Lisa Nichols: that's the lowest level.
• 17:28
  Lisa Nichols: Yep.
• 17:28
  Lisa Nichols: It's positional.
• 17:29
  Lisa Nichols: You know?
• 17:30
  Lisa Nichols: Just because you've got the title.
• 17:31
  Lisa Nichols: Right?
• 17:32
  Lisa Nichols: So, yeah, so, you know, one of the one of the,
• 17:38
  Lisa Nichols: I think, the major things that a leader can do is to remove roadblocks.
• 17:42
  Andrew Wilder: Absolutely.
• 17:44
  Andrew Wilder: That's one of my that's one of my two leadership, goals there is removing
• 17:47
  Andrew Wilder: roadblocks.
• 17:48
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 17:48
  Lisa Nichols: And that allows people to get their best work done.
• 17:51
  Lisa Nichols: Right?
• 17:51
  Lisa Nichols: Yep.
• 17:52
  Lisa Nichols: Let me ask you this.
• 17:53
  Lisa Nichols: I know that you have led eleven, I think, eleven or twelve
• 17:57
  Lisa Nichols: different reorgs.
• 18:00
  Lisa Nichols: I know it's one of your least favorite things to do, Andrew, too.
• 18:03
  Andrew Wilder: It was a skill that I never wanted to get good at, that I
• 18:06
  Andrew Wilder: got really good at.
• 18:06
  Andrew Wilder: So
• 18:07
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 18:08
  Lisa Nichols: That there's so much emotional weight there.
• 18:10
  Lisa Nichols: I mean, how did you personally carry that emotional weight?
• 18:14
  Lisa Nichols: There were some really tough decisions in those
• 18:17
  Andrew Wilder: So I I grew as a leader in my maturity
• 18:21
  Andrew Wilder: of being able to do that as it went on.
• 18:24
  Andrew Wilder: The first time I did it, I really believed
• 18:28
  Andrew Wilder: that we were transforming and that we were doing things better and that we
• 18:32
  Andrew Wilder: were going to, you know, make a difference.
• 18:34
  Andrew Wilder: And in some cases, we kinda did.
• 18:36
  Andrew Wilder: Right?
• 18:36
  Andrew Wilder: Like, the first one that I did was really, like, merging four orgs together
• 18:41
  Andrew Wilder: and then eliminating three fourths of the middle management
• 18:45
  Andrew Wilder: that we didn't need anymore.
• 18:47
  Andrew Wilder: Right?
• 18:47
  Andrew Wilder: You don't need four, you know, database managers.
• 18:50
  Andrew Wilder: You could just have one.
• 18:52
  Lisa Nichols: Right.
• 18:52
  Andrew Wilder: And it's not necessarily eliminating jobs, but just changing the organizational
• 18:56
  Andrew Wilder: structure to match that.
• 18:58
  Andrew Wilder: But as it went on, you know, having to let
• 19:02
  Andrew Wilder: go people that you've worked with for ten or fifteen or twenty
• 19:06
  Andrew Wilder: years that you know them, you know their family.
• 19:09
  Andrew Wilder: I mean, it's it's really it's really hard to do.
• 19:12
  Lisa Nichols: Brutal.
• 19:13
  Lisa Nichols: Yes.
• 19:14
  Andrew Wilder: So I don't I don't have, like, a secret for how I did that.
• 19:17
  Andrew Wilder: You know?
• 19:18
  Andrew Wilder: I would say the last, probably four or five years of my career where
• 19:22
  Andrew Wilder: I was having to do that were the worst because it
• 19:26
  Andrew Wilder: it just kept coming more and more often.
• 19:28
  Andrew Wilder: There was more squeezing of finances.
• 19:30
  Andrew Wilder: And
• 19:30
  Lisa Nichols: Mhmm.
• 19:31
  Andrew Wilder: One way that I like to do it is called, early
• 19:35
  Andrew Wilder: retirement programs.
• 19:37
  Andrew Wilder: So, you know, you realize that you have a bunch of people in your
• 19:40
  Andrew Wilder: workforce who are close to retirement, and you bridge them to retirement.
• 19:44
  Andrew Wilder: You give them,
• 19:46
  Andrew Wilder: you know, you take care of their health care until Medicare kicks in.
• 19:49
  Andrew Wilder: And this is a positive way to do this.
• 19:51
  Andrew Wilder: So, you know, if you're thinking about doing it in your organization, if you
• 19:54
  Andrew Wilder: have any way to do an early retirement program, it's a great way to
• 19:58
  Andrew Wilder: let people retire early, you know, and they're happy to do that.
• 20:01
  Andrew Wilder: And then you can bring in, you know, kind of more entry level talent
• 20:05
  Andrew Wilder: to help, to help, boost the org.
• 20:07
  Andrew Wilder: But it's, Mhmm.
• 20:08
  Andrew Wilder: That's the only positive way that I that I that I remember doing.
• 20:11
  Lisa Nichols: Right.
• 20:12
  Lisa Nichols: That's a good word of wisdom.
• 20:13
  Lisa Nichols: That's a good word of wisdom.
• 20:16
  Lisa Nichols: Alright.
• 20:16
  Lisa Nichols: Let's talk about this.
• 20:17
  Lisa Nichols: So high performance.
• 20:19
  Lisa Nichols: You know?
• 20:20
  Lisa Nichols: If every professional thought of themselves as a corporate athlete,
• 20:24
  Lisa Nichols: what would they do differently tomorrow, Andrew?
• 20:28
  Lisa Nichols: I like that.
• 20:28
  Lisa Nichols: Athlete.
• 20:31
  Andrew Wilder: Yeah.
• 20:33
  Andrew Wilder: A corporate athlete.
• 20:34
  Andrew Wilder: My gosh.
• 20:36
  Andrew Wilder: I so I guess I guess you would have to train for everything
• 20:40
  Andrew Wilder: that you're gonna do.
• 20:41
  Andrew Wilder: You'd have to provide the the right fuel for everything
• 20:45
  Andrew Wilder: that you're gonna do.
• 20:46
  Andrew Wilder: I think it would really change your mindset.
• 20:49
  Andrew Wilder: I think a lot of people go to work every day and just thinking,
• 20:52
  Andrew Wilder: like, what is it that I have to do today?
• 20:54
  Andrew Wilder: And they're not focused on a, a long term goal like an
• 20:58
  Andrew Wilder: athlete is.
• 20:59
  Andrew Wilder: Mhmm.
• 21:00
  Andrew Wilder: So maybe seeing daily tasks as training
• 21:05
  Andrew Wilder: opportunities, looking at ways that they can make things better for themselves.
• 21:09
  Andrew Wilder: You know, athletes are always trying to be incrementally better, kind of following
• 21:13
  Andrew Wilder: a continuous improvement mindset.
• 21:15
  Lisa Nichols: Right.
• 21:16
  Andrew Wilder: So maybe that's it.
• 21:17
  Andrew Wilder: Maybe that's it.
• 21:18
  Andrew Wilder: Boy, that's one question I wish you would ask me ahead of time.
• 21:21
  Andrew Wilder: That's a fun one.
• 21:23
  Lisa Nichols: That's a loaded one.
• 21:24
  Lisa Nichols: Right?
• 21:24
  Andrew Wilder: Yeah.
• 21:24
  Lisa Nichols: Well, I'm just thinking about daily disciplines.
• 21:27
  Andrew Wilder: Yeah.
• 21:27
  Lisa Nichols: Right?
• 21:27
  Lisa Nichols: For really high performers and elite performers, it's like what
• 21:32
  Lisa Nichols: you said, you know, the training, the, like, how can we
• 21:36
  Lisa Nichols: make this better?
• 21:37
  Lisa Nichols: That mindset is so important, I think.
• 21:40
  Lisa Nichols: Right?
• 21:40
  Lisa Nichols: If you want a high performing organization, you gotta have high performing
• 21:45
  Lisa Nichols: individuals because individuals make up the organization.
• 21:48
  Lisa Nichols: That's true.
• 21:50
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 21:53
  Lisa Nichols: Let's, gosh.
• 21:54
  Lisa Nichols: I've got so many more questions here.
• 21:56
  Lisa Nichols: But I tell you what, I think we're gonna take a quick break, and
• 21:59
  Lisa Nichols: we'll be right back with Andrew Wilder on the Something Extra podcast.
• 22:04
  AD: Hey there.
• 22:04
  AD: In a challenging business climate like this, savvy leaders look to technology to find
• 22:08
  AD: an edge.
• 22:09
  AD: This can mean the difference between staying ahead of the curve or playing catch
• 22:12
  AD: up.
• 22:13
  AD: It's time to collaborate with the highly skilled experts at Technology Partners.
• 22:17
  AD: Our team of technologists draws upon decades of experience for your project, with each
• 22:21
  AD: bringing a passion for solving problems and a track record of success, how can
• 22:25
  AD: we help you overcome your biggest technology challenges?
• 22:28
  AD: Visit technology partners dot net to book a free consultation with one of our
• 22:32
  AD: leaders.
• 22:33
  Lisa Nichols: Well, welcome back everyone to the Something Extra podcast with my friend,
• 22:37
  Lisa Nichols: Andrew Wilder.
• 22:38
  Lisa Nichols: So, Andrew, I wanna talk about this subject that is on the
• 22:43
  Lisa Nichols: tongue of every IT leader I know, and that's AI.
• 22:47
  Lisa Nichols: You call it the beauty and the beast.
• 22:50
  Lisa Nichols: Tell me your ideas around AI.
• 22:53
  Andrew Wilder: So when we think about AI from a cybersecurity perspective, we think
• 22:57
  Andrew Wilder: about three things.
• 22:58
  Andrew Wilder: So the first part is, how do we enable the business to use AI?
• 23:03
  Andrew Wilder: Now if you would ask me about this three years ago, I would have
• 23:07
  Andrew Wilder: said that we would put a bunch of controls around it.
• 23:10
  Andrew Wilder: We would be very cautious about it.
• 23:12
  Andrew Wilder: I think that time has ended.
• 23:16
  Andrew Wilder: At this point, myself and all of the, you know, top level CISOs
• 23:20
  Andrew Wilder: that I know,
• 23:21
  Andrew Wilder: are are embracing AI, are jumping feet first into it.
• 23:25
  Andrew Wilder: All businesses that are wanting to succeed are going, you know, AI initiatives.
• 23:30
  Andrew Wilder: There's top down things saying, hey, we need twenty percent, incremental
• 23:34
  Andrew Wilder: improvement across the board in every department on leveraging AI.
• 23:38
  Andrew Wilder: You go and figure out how to do that.
• 23:40
  Andrew Wilder: So I think from a from an enabling the business perspective now, what you
• 23:44
  Andrew Wilder: really wanna do is you wanna understand,
• 23:47
  Andrew Wilder: how they're using AI.
• 23:48
  Andrew Wilder: You wanna have visibility into it so you can start to control it.
• 23:52
  Andrew Wilder: I think that's the that's the enabling the business part.
• 23:55
  Andrew Wilder: The second part that you wanna think about with AI is how the attackers
• 23:59
  Andrew Wilder: are using it.
• 24:00
  Andrew Wilder: So I'm sure you've seen the news around Mythos recently
• 24:03
  Lisa Nichols: Yes.
• 24:04
  Andrew Wilder: And Anthropic.
• 24:05
  Andrew Wilder: Yes.
• 24:05
  Andrew Wilder: Mythos is really, really good at finding
• 24:10
  Andrew Wilder: zero day vulnerabilities.
• 24:11
  Andrew Wilder: And zero day vulnerabilities have have previously been fairly rare.
• 24:15
  Andrew Wilder: But if there's a tool that can find tons of them very quickly,
• 24:20
  Andrew Wilder: then the attackers will have a huge advantage.
• 24:23
  Andrew Wilder: And that means if they want to attack somebody, they can, no matter how
• 24:28
  Andrew Wilder: well you think you're gonna be doing cybersecurity.
• 24:30
  Andrew Wilder: So, and then the third part is how do you combat the attackers?
• 24:35
  Andrew Wilder: So we like to say fight fire with fire.
• 24:37
  Andrew Wilder: Right?
• 24:38
  Andrew Wilder: So we are leveraging AI as much as possible using agents
• 24:42
  Andrew Wilder: to do, what I would consider kind of lower value activities
• 24:46
  Andrew Wilder: to allow the team to focus on higher value activities that hopefully
• 24:51
  Andrew Wilder: will help to, prevent or disrupt the attacks,
• 24:55
  Andrew Wilder: that people would bring against us from a cyber perspective.
• 24:58
  Andrew Wilder: So that's that's the beauty and the beast, and that's the three ways that
• 25:01
  Andrew Wilder: we think about AI today.
• 25:02
  Andrew Wilder: Probably gonna change in a week, but, that's where we're at right now.
• 25:06
  Lisa Nichols: That's right.
• 25:08
  Lisa Nichols: That's right.
• 25:09
  Lisa Nichols: Well, you know and I just wanted to mention this because I I read
• 25:13
  Lisa Nichols: this about you that you love The Diary of a CEO podcast
• 25:17
  Lisa Nichols: I
• 25:17
  Andrew Wilder: do.
• 25:17
  Lisa Nichols: Is one of your favorite resources for really learning about
• 25:22
  Lisa Nichols: AI and leadership.
• 25:24
  Lisa Nichols: And so I just wanted to mention that for our listeners in case they
• 25:27
  Lisa Nichols: wanna check that out.
• 25:28
  Andrew Wilder: Yeah.
• 25:28
  Andrew Wilder: My second favorite podcast after the Something Extra podcast is Diary
• 25:32
  Andrew Wilder: of the CEO.
• 25:34
  Andrew Wilder: Yeah.
• 25:34
  Andrew Wilder: He has had some incredible guests on there.
• 25:37
  Andrew Wilder: And the thing that I really like about it is I wouldn't
• 25:41
  Andrew Wilder: it doesn't, like, nerd out too hard.
• 25:44
  Andrew Wilder: Mhmm.
• 25:44
  Andrew Wilder: Right?
• 25:44
  Andrew Wilder: It's very it's very like, my mother would listen to it.
• 25:48
  Andrew Wilder: Right?
• 25:48
  Andrew Wilder: It's very palatable, and it's very interesting.
• 25:51
  Andrew Wilder: One quote that I really like from a guy named the godfather of AI,
• 25:54
  Andrew Wilder: and I don't know if he gave himself that name or not.
• 25:56
  Andrew Wilder: But,
• 25:58
  Andrew Wilder: he was asked in the podcast, if you were telling your your your eighteen
• 26:02
  Andrew Wilder: year old, you know, what sort of job to get into today that's gonna
• 26:05
  Andrew Wilder: be that's not gonna be disrupted by AI, what what advice would you give?
• 26:08
  Andrew Wilder: And he said, very plainly, he said, plumber.
• 26:12
  Lisa Nichols: Plumber.
• 26:13
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 26:14
  Andrew Wilder: So, I mean and and some at some point, those will get disrupted by,
• 26:17
  Andrew Wilder: you know, robots and things like that.
• 26:19
  Andrew Wilder: But I think I think plumber or HVAC, you know, those are things that
• 26:23
  Andrew Wilder: probably today are not gonna be disrupted
• 26:26
  Lisa Nichols: by AI.
• 26:27
  Andrew Wilder: I agree.
• 26:27
  Andrew Wilder: If you're a developer, you know, my my heart's out to you right now.
• 26:31
  Lisa Nichols: We talk about it all the time.
• 26:33
  Lisa Nichols: We talk about it all the time, especially the entry level.
• 26:35
  Lisa Nichols: You know?
• 26:36
  Lisa Nichols: I I feel like it's gonna go away.
• 26:38
  Andrew Wilder: Yeah.
• 26:38
  Lisa Nichols: What,
• 26:40
  Lisa Nichols: gosh.
• 26:40
  Lisa Nichols: I mean, Andrew, this is, like, not saying that you got a crystal ball,
• 26:45
  Lisa Nichols: but with AI, I mean, five years from now, how how is it gonna
• 26:49
  Lisa Nichols: look different the way that we work?
• 26:50
  Lisa Nichols: I mean, what do you think?
• 26:53
  Andrew Wilder: So it it will continue to completely transform the way that
• 26:57
  Andrew Wilder: we work.
• 26:58
  Andrew Wilder: Once once Mythos is introduced to the general public the difference in how
• 27:03
  Andrew Wilder: AI is being built today versus how it was being built over the last
• 27:06
  Andrew Wilder: two or three years is that now AI is building itself.
• 27:11
  Andrew Wilder: And so if you hire if you're anthropic or or OpenAI
• 27:16
  Andrew Wilder: and you hire a thousand developers, that's one thing.
• 27:19
  Andrew Wilder: That's cost.
• 27:19
  Andrew Wilder: That's people.
• 27:20
  Andrew Wilder: They can only work eight hours a day ish.
• 27:22
  Andrew Wilder: Right?
• 27:22
  Andrew Wilder: And they're doing the best that they can.
• 27:24
  Andrew Wilder: If you're using AI to build AI, it scales exponentially.
• 27:30
  Andrew Wilder: So the speed with which we'll start to release newer and better versions
• 27:35
  Andrew Wilder: will will will continue to to shorten.
• 27:39
  Andrew Wilder: And and what will happen is those major companies will start selling,
• 27:45
  Andrew Wilder: like a like a human AI agent to do things.
• 27:48
  Andrew Wilder: Here, I'll give you an accounting agent, or I'll give you a, you know,
• 27:52
  Andrew Wilder: a sales agent or whatever it is.
• 27:54
  Andrew Wilder: And they those will replace human jobs.
• 27:58
  Andrew Wilder: Now that doesn't mean that human beings will be out of work.
• 28:00
  Andrew Wilder: It means that what human beings will do will transform.
• 28:04
  Andrew Wilder: Now I can't tell you exactly how that's gonna work or what that's gonna
• 28:07
  Andrew Wilder: be.
• 28:07
  Andrew Wilder: I don't have I you asked me about my crystal ball.
• 28:09
  Andrew Wilder: But in terms of AI, those are things that I know is going to
• 28:13
  Andrew Wilder: happen Right.
• 28:14
  Andrew Wilder: Or I'm I'm very sure about, I would say.
• 28:17
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 28:17
  Lisa Nichols: And we need to have our eyes open, you know, to that.
• 28:20
  Lisa Nichols: Right?
• 28:20
  Lisa Nichols: And and as leaders even be thinking about it.
• 28:23
  Lisa Nichols: And, you know, if you're a leader and you're thinking, oh, you know, it's
• 28:27
  Lisa Nichols: something that I can push off, you've gotta start thinking about it because
• 28:30
  Andrew Wilder: You cannot push it off anymore.
• 28:31
  Lisa Nichols: You cannot push it off.
• 28:33
  Lisa Nichols: Right?
• 28:34
  Lisa Nichols: Because your competitors are out there figuring out how to leverage it
• 28:38
  Lisa Nichols: and, you know
• 28:39
  Andrew Wilder: Or a brand new startup has just been started with only five people, and
• 28:43
  Andrew Wilder: they're leveraging it fully, and they're gonna come after you as fast as they
• 28:46
  Andrew Wilder: can.
• 28:47
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 28:47
  Lisa Nichols: Agreed.
• 28:48
  Lisa Nichols: Agreed.
• 28:49
  Lisa Nichols: Well, you know, Saint Louis, we're very lucky, I think, in the Saint
• 28:53
  Lisa Nichols: Louis.
• 28:54
  Lisa Nichols: Yay, Saint Louis.
• 28:55
  Lisa Nichols: I mean, we have a very strong CISO community here.
• 28:59
  Andrew Wilder: Saint Louis is the is the number one CISO community in the world.
• 29:02
  Andrew Wilder: Now we say that, but no one has ever challenged me on that.
• 29:06
  Andrew Wilder: So, you know, we're gonna keep saying it.
• 29:09
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 29:09
  Lisa Nichols: I mean, it's so good.
• 29:11
  Lisa Nichols: I love it.
• 29:11
  Lisa Nichols: You guys, you have a very tight knit community.
• 29:16
  Lisa Nichols: You know, let me let me ask you this.
• 29:19
  Lisa Nichols: I mean, because you've been in boardrooms.
• 29:21
  Lisa Nichols: I mean, what does a boardroom conversation look like when it comes to cyber
• 29:25
  Lisa Nichols: and risk?
• 29:26
  Lisa Nichols: What does that sound like, Andrew?
• 29:28
  Andrew Wilder: Yeah.
• 29:28
  Andrew Wilder: That's a fair that's a fair question.
• 29:31
  Andrew Wilder: I think the the real answer is that it depends.
• 29:35
  Andrew Wilder: You know, some some boards have people who understand
• 29:39
  Andrew Wilder: cybersecurity at some level.
• 29:41
  Andrew Wilder: Some don't.
• 29:43
  Andrew Wilder: Some of them are looking at it and focusing on it.
• 29:45
  Andrew Wilder: Some are not.
• 29:46
  Andrew Wilder: I think if you are a chief information security officer, your
• 29:50
  Andrew Wilder: one of your main goals is to make sure that your board understand
• 29:55
  Andrew Wilder: the cyber risk, and that you're able to translate that into
• 29:59
  Andrew Wilder: business risk.
• 30:01
  Andrew Wilder: This is another thing I would say that happened to me about mid career
• 30:04
  Andrew Wilder: is where I realized what my role really is is a subject
• 30:08
  Andrew Wilder: matter expert on cybersecurity risk.
• 30:11
  Andrew Wilder: And when I would go present to the board or the executive suite, what
• 30:15
  Andrew Wilder: I would say is, hey.
• 30:16
  Andrew Wilder: Here's a risk, risk a.
• 30:19
  Andrew Wilder: There's three different ways that we can control that risk.
• 30:21
  Andrew Wilder: There's a very expensive way that can really reduce it.
• 30:24
  Andrew Wilder: There's a, you know, kinda middle of the roadway that's less expensive that'll reduce
• 30:27
  Andrew Wilder: it a little bit, and there's a kind of an ignoring it way.
• 30:30
  Andrew Wilder: And what is the risk appetite of the business in terms of how you
• 30:33
  Andrew Wilder: wanna pursue these things?
• 30:35
  Andrew Wilder: And prior to that, I would just get focused on a specific solution,
• 30:39
  Andrew Wilder: and then I would say, we gotta do this solution.
• 30:42
  Andrew Wilder: And then I realized, that's not my job.
• 30:44
  Andrew Wilder: My job is to say, here's a risk.
• 30:46
  Andrew Wilder: Here's the ways that we can control it.
• 30:48
  Andrew Wilder: You tell me which of those you want to do, and then I will
• 30:50
  Andrew Wilder: go and implement that thing.
• 30:53
  Andrew Wilder: So, you know, unfortunately and you see this a lot of times with cyberattacks
• 30:58
  Andrew Wilder: and companies like Drizly and some others that were in the news where,
• 31:02
  Andrew Wilder: you know, they had a cyber attack, and then it was clear that they
• 31:05
  Andrew Wilder: they, you know, they may have put something in their eight k or their
• 31:07
  Andrew Wilder: ten k or whatever, but they really weren't paying any attention to cybersecurity
• 31:11
  Andrew Wilder: risk.
• 31:12
  Andrew Wilder: And the unfortunate thing is you're either gonna pay attention to it, you know,
• 31:16
  Andrew Wilder: before you get breached or after you get breached.
• 31:18
  Andrew Wilder: So I would recommend to do it before because it's probably, you know, better.
• 31:21
  Lisa Nichols: Be a lot less expensive probably before.
• 31:23
  Lisa Nichols: Right?
• 31:24
  Lisa Nichols: You know?
• 31:24
  Lisa Nichols: Because those penalties and and that can be really, really hefty.
• 31:29
  Lisa Nichols: You know, how I mean, you talk about being a ruthless
• 31:33
  Lisa Nichols: prioritizer.
• 31:34
  Andrew Wilder: Yes.
• 31:35
  Lisa Nichols: I just, have another friend, and he we were talking about time management,
• 31:40
  Lisa Nichols: you know, and he, like, does his time in thirty minute blocks.
• 31:43
  Lisa Nichols: You know?
• 31:44
  Lisa Nichols: How do you decide, Andrew?
• 31:46
  Lisa Nichols: We can't do everything.
• 31:48
  Lisa Nichols: How do you decide what not to do?
• 31:52
  Andrew Wilder: There's a there's a quote that's attributed to Warren Buffett, but I'm not a
• 31:56
  Andrew Wilder: hundred percent sure it's it's him.
• 31:57
  Andrew Wilder: But I'm I'm gonna go for it anyway.
• 31:59
  Lisa Nichols: Just go for it.
• 32:00
  Andrew Wilder: So he says, write down a list of the ten most
• 32:04
  Andrew Wilder: important things that you need to do, and then rip off the bottom
• 32:09
  Andrew Wilder: half of that list.
• 32:09
  Andrew Wilder: Yeah.
• 32:10
  Andrew Wilder: Right?
• 32:10
  Andrew Wilder: So what I've always done is I have my team focused on the top,
• 32:14
  Andrew Wilder: let's say, three.
• 32:15
  Andrew Wilder: We usually do three.
• 32:16
  Andrew Wilder: What are the top three things that we're going to do that we're gonna
• 32:20
  Andrew Wilder: transform?
• 32:21
  Andrew Wilder: And in VetCorps, we call them our glass rocks.
• 32:23
  Andrew Wilder: Like, what are the things that we cannot drop?
• 32:25
  Lisa Nichols: Yes.
• 32:26
  Andrew Wilder: Now we still need to do the other things, but those other things
• 32:30
  Andrew Wilder: can we can slow them down, or we can pause
• 32:34
  Andrew Wilder: them,
• 32:35
  Andrew Wilder: because what we really need to do are those glass rocks.
• 32:38
  Andrew Wilder: And I you talked before about removing roadblocks.
• 32:40
  Andrew Wilder: I think one of the things that we need to do for our teams
• 32:44
  Andrew Wilder: is to surround them with this kind of safety where
• 32:48
  Andrew Wilder: they can focus on doing those three things really well
• 32:52
  Andrew Wilder: and not get wrapped up into the thousands of other things that will
• 32:56
  Andrew Wilder: be thrown at them.
• 32:57
  Andrew Wilder: Say, hey.
• 32:58
  Andrew Wilder: CEO read this article in the news today about Mythos and AI security.
• 33:02
  Andrew Wilder: What are we gonna do with this?
• 33:03
  Andrew Wilder: Okay.
• 33:03
  Andrew Wilder: Well, we're gonna do something about it for sure, but we need to we
• 33:06
  Andrew Wilder: need to work on our glass rocks right now.
• 33:08
  Andrew Wilder: We need to figure that stuff out first.
• 33:09
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 33:10
  Lisa Nichols: I love that metaphor so much.
• 33:13
  Lisa Nichols: The for our listeners that don't know that, there's glass rocks and there's plastic
• 33:16
  Lisa Nichols: rocks or, you know, rocks the rocks that will break, and the glass rocks
• 33:20
  Lisa Nichols: are the ones that you you just cannot break.
• 33:23
  Lisa Nichols: I mean, you can't you can't compromise on those.
• 33:26
  Lisa Nichols: I love that.
• 33:28
  Lisa Nichols: I know that you've got a favorite book, and I just I wanna I
• 33:32
  Lisa Nichols: wanna talk about because, you know, you've you've scaled many programs, and you've
• 33:36
  Lisa Nichols: like I said, you've had just this illustrious career, and you've had a lot
• 33:39
  Lisa Nichols: of different roles.
• 33:41
  Lisa Nichols: But there's a book, Andrew, that I read that you really love, and it's
• 33:44
  Lisa Nichols: called The First Ninety Days.
• 33:46
  Andrew Wilder: I do love it.
• 33:47
  Lisa Nichols: Michael d Watkins.
• 33:49
  Lisa Nichols: Yep.
• 33:50
  Lisa Nichols: What do you love about that book?
• 33:51
  Lisa Nichols: And, you know, I think about, like, even a new president.
• 33:54
  Lisa Nichols: You know?
• 33:54
  Lisa Nichols: It's the first hundred days when you're in maybe there's a listener out
• 33:58
  Lisa Nichols: there that is getting ready to take on a new role, Andrew.
• 34:03
  Lisa Nichols: What would you what would you say to them?
• 34:04
  Lisa Nichols: I mean, what do they do in the first ninety days?
• 34:08
  Andrew Wilder: So I have to give credit where credit's due.
• 34:10
  Andrew Wilder: My mentor, knew that I was starting a new role, and he gave me
• 34:14
  Andrew Wilder: that book.
• 34:15
  Lisa Nichols: And the John, or is this a different mentor?
• 34:18
  Lisa Nichols: Was this John or a different mentor?
• 34:20
  Andrew Wilder: No.
• 34:20
  Andrew Wilder: A different mentor.
• 34:21
  Andrew Wilder: A different A Lewis based mentor.
• 34:23
  Lisa Nichols: Yes.
• 34:24
  Andrew Wilder: So the the first ninety days is really about how
• 34:28
  Andrew Wilder: do you hit the ground running in any new role, and how
• 34:32
  Andrew Wilder: do you maximize the amount of value you can deliver from
• 34:36
  Andrew Wilder: day one?
• 34:38
  Andrew Wilder: Now, obviously, day one is not really possible, but, you know,
• 34:42
  Andrew Wilder: the first thirty days should really be spent on understanding
• 34:47
  Andrew Wilder: the organization so that you can make a plan of what you're gonna do.
• 34:50
  Andrew Wilder: And then within that second thirty days, you're already starting to begin
• 34:55
  Andrew Wilder: some sort of quick wins.
• 34:56
  Andrew Wilder: And within that first ninety days, you've already accomplished some of those
• 35:00
  Andrew Wilder: quick wins, and then you can start to look at what is your longer
• 35:03
  Andrew Wilder: term horizon for adding value.
• 35:05
  Andrew Wilder: But the ability to add value within the first ninety days is huge because
• 35:09
  Andrew Wilder: most people joining a new organization, it takes them about ninety days
• 35:13
  Andrew Wilder: to ramp up to where they're giving value.
• 35:15
  Andrew Wilder: And your idea is to how do you how do you hockey stick that?
• 35:18
  Andrew Wilder: How do you, you know, get ahead of that curve so so that you
• 35:21
  Andrew Wilder: can start delivering value to the org as fast as you
• 35:24
  Lisa Nichols: can?
• 35:24
  Lisa Nichols: Mhmm.
• 35:25
  Lisa Nichols: I love what you said, though.
• 35:26
  Lisa Nichols: The first thirty days is just understanding the organization.
• 35:29
  Andrew Wilder: Yeah.
• 35:30
  Andrew Wilder: You're never gonna have the time like you do in your calendar's never gonna
• 35:33
  Andrew Wilder: be that open as it is in the first thirty days.
• 35:35
  Andrew Wilder: So really get that.
• 35:36
  Andrew Wilder: Go out there and interview people, meet people, get an understanding.
• 35:40
  Lisa Nichols: Yes.
• 35:40
  Lisa Nichols: I've had I've talked to so many leaders, and and at first, they're doing
• 35:44
  Lisa Nichols: listening tours.
• 35:45
  Lisa Nichols: That's all they're doing.
• 35:46
  Lisa Nichols: Right?
• 35:46
  Lisa Nichols: It's just getting out there and listening.
• 35:49
  Lisa Nichols: I wanna talk a little bit about this because I know that you work
• 35:52
  Lisa Nichols: with CyberUp.
• 35:53
  Andrew Wilder: Uh-huh.
• 35:54
  Andrew Wilder: Yes.
• 35:54
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 35:54
  Lisa Nichols: Tell us a little bit about CyberUp, and then, you know, I've got a
• 35:58
  Lisa Nichols: couple more questions for you, and then we'll talk about something extra.
• 36:02
  Andrew Wilder: Yep.
• 36:02
  Andrew Wilder: So I know that you're big in the Saint Louis community, and CyberUp
• 36:06
  Andrew Wilder: is such a such a light in the Saint Louis community.
• 36:11
  Andrew Wilder: And and for those of you of your listeners that don't know about it,
• 36:13
  Andrew Wilder: so CyberUp is a nonprofit, and what they do is they provide,
• 36:18
  Andrew Wilder: free training to people who are career transitioners
• 36:22
  Andrew Wilder: who are getting into cybersecurity.
• 36:24
  Andrew Wilder: And we've had all kinds of amazing stories of people who come through there.
• 36:28
  Andrew Wilder: A lot of military, ex military,
• 36:31
  Andrew Wilder: people who are in sales or warehouse workers or whatever
• 36:35
  Andrew Wilder: it is have gone through there, and they what happens is they get the
• 36:39
  Andrew Wilder: free training.
• 36:39
  Andrew Wilder: At the end, they they get a cybersecurity certification, and then we place them
• 36:43
  Andrew Wilder: as apprentices in, great businesses throughout throughout
• 36:48
  Andrew Wilder: Saint Louis.
• 36:49
  Andrew Wilder: And many of those people have gone on to have really great careers in
• 36:53
  Andrew Wilder: cybersecurity.
• 36:54
  Andrew Wilder: If you come to the graduations, you'll see some of the alumni who come
• 36:57
  Andrew Wilder: back and give a speech about how it transformed them.
• 37:00
  Andrew Wilder: And one of the one of the the most emotional parts of it for
• 37:03
  Andrew Wilder: me is going to the graduations and seeing the families of these people
• 37:08
  Andrew Wilder: and and seeing what that's like for them.
• 37:10
  Andrew Wilder: That's not just, you know, one change.
• 37:13
  Andrew Wilder: That's a that's a new mortgage payment.
• 37:15
  Andrew Wilder: That's a, you know, a better life for their children.
• 37:18
  Andrew Wilder: I mean, everything transforms for these folks as they go through that program.
• 37:22
  Andrew Wilder: So it's so it's really wonderful to be part of that.
• 37:25
  Andrew Wilder: I'm super lucky to be the president of the board there.
• 37:28
  Andrew Wilder: I never thought that that would happen either, but I met Tony about, oh,
• 37:33
  Andrew Wilder: eight or nine years ago and was really struck by, you know, the the
• 37:37
  Andrew Wilder: organization and what they were doing.
• 37:38
  Andrew Wilder: And I just wanted to get involved, and I'd kinda pester him every time
• 37:42
  Andrew Wilder: I'd see him.
• 37:42
  Andrew Wilder: And finally, he let me join the board, and then I, you know, I
• 37:45
  Andrew Wilder: kept doing good stuff for him, I guess.
• 37:47
  Andrew Wilder: So
• 37:47
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 37:48
  Andrew Wilder: And it's great.
• 37:48
  Andrew Wilder: The other thing that they do, by the way, is they also have this,
• 37:52
  Andrew Wilder: thing called PowerUp.
• 37:53
  Andrew Wilder: And PowerUp is where they go to k through twelve students, and they
• 37:57
  Andrew Wilder: go and teach them about how to be safe online for for the younger
• 38:01
  Andrew Wilder: kids and the older kids, what it's like to have a career in cybersecurity.
• 38:05
  Andrew Wilder: And they meet with people who are in there, and they talk about, you
• 38:08
  Andrew Wilder: know, hackers and and, you know, how to prevent that.
• 38:11
  Andrew Wilder: And it's an exciting thing for kids to see too.
• 38:13
  Andrew Wilder: And some of those folks who have been inspired have gone on to join
• 38:17
  Andrew Wilder: the program later on, and then get a certification and get places in apprentice.
• 38:21
  Andrew Wilder: What a what a wonderful story.
• 38:22
  Lisa Nichols: That's awesome.
• 38:23
  Lisa Nichols: I see.
• 38:24
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 38:24
  Lisa Nichols: That's a part of what they did that I did not know that they're
• 38:27
  Lisa Nichols: starting younger.
• 38:28
  Lisa Nichols: Yes, that's wonderful.
• 38:29
  Lisa Nichols: It's
• 38:29
  Andrew Wilder: They're one of the only organizations who who does that cybersecurity career
• 38:34
  Andrew Wilder: training that also funds that Power Upside program.
• 38:37
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 38:37
  Lisa Nichols: That's so good.
• 38:38
  Lisa Nichols: Well, Andrew, what what piece of advice would you give someone
• 38:43
  Lisa Nichols: if they are thinking about getting into cybersecurity or a leadership role?
• 38:47
  Andrew Wilder: Yeah.
• 38:48
  Lisa Nichols: I mean, they could go to CyberUp, but what else would you say to
• 38:51
  Lisa Nichols: them?
• 38:53
  Andrew Wilder: So, again, I I'm gonna give a quote from one of my mentors who
• 38:56
  Andrew Wilder: told me, no one is ever going to care more about your career
• 39:00
  Andrew Wilder: than you do.
• 39:01
  Andrew Wilder: Mhmm.
• 39:01
  Andrew Wilder: So what I would say is figure out what is what is the job
• 39:06
  Andrew Wilder: or the career that you want.
• 39:08
  Andrew Wilder: Figure out what the gaps or opportunities that you have to get there.
• 39:12
  Andrew Wilder: Like, go read the job description and say, hey.
• 39:14
  Andrew Wilder: I'm really good at this.
• 39:15
  Andrew Wilder: I'm okay at this.
• 39:16
  Andrew Wilder: I'm not so great at this.
• 39:17
  Andrew Wilder: And for any of the things that you're not so great, create a development
• 39:20
  Andrew Wilder: plan for yourself and go and start doing those things.
• 39:24
  Andrew Wilder: One equation that I like for this is one to the three hundred
• 39:28
  Andrew Wilder: and sixty fifth power is one, But one point zero
• 39:32
  Andrew Wilder: one to the three hundred sixty fifth power is, like, thirty seven.
• 39:36
  Andrew Wilder: So what that means is if you just go one percent One percent.
• 39:40
  Andrew Wilder: Towards your goal every day, you will get thirty seven
• 39:44
  Andrew Wilder: times closer to your goal, by by the end of the year than than
• 39:48
  Andrew Wilder: had you done nothing towards it.
• 39:50
  Andrew Wilder: So really know what your goals are and do things, incremental things,
• 39:54
  Andrew Wilder: to get yourself towards that goal.
• 39:55
  Andrew Wilder: And then go out
• 39:56
  Lisa Nichols: there.
• 39:56
  Lisa Nichols: What a great what a great, way to look at it.
• 40:00
  Lisa Nichols: I love that.
• 40:00
  Lisa Nichols: I'd never heard that before, Andrew, and I love it.
• 40:03
  Lisa Nichols: And so it's whatever.
• 40:04
  Lisa Nichols: I mean, that can, that can apply to your career.
• 40:07
  Lisa Nichols: That can apply to running a marathon, whatever it is that your your goal
• 40:11
  Lisa Nichols: is.
• 40:12
  Lisa Nichols: Right?
• 40:12
  Lisa Nichols: So, and and most people will be like, I can do one percent more
• 40:17
  Andrew Wilder: Exactly.
• 40:17
  Lisa Nichols: A day.
• 40:18
  Lisa Nichols: Yep.
• 40:18
  Lisa Nichols: You know?
• 40:19
  Lisa Nichols: So very good.
• 40:21
  Lisa Nichols: Well, I've got just a quick little couple little quick lightning round
• 40:25
  Lisa Nichols: morning routine.
• 40:26
  Lisa Nichols: Do you have a morning routine?
• 40:28
  Andrew Wilder: Morning routine.
• 40:28
  Andrew Wilder: I do.
• 40:30
  Andrew Wilder: It's mostly focused on spending time with my son, but I do
• 40:34
  Andrew Wilder: I do about fifteen minutes of, of core exercise.
• 40:38
  Andrew Wilder: Mhmm.
• 40:38
  Andrew Wilder: I make breakfast for the family.
• 40:41
  Andrew Wilder: Always a smoothie that has, fruits and vegetables in it.
• 40:44
  Andrew Wilder: That's one of our secret ways to get Enzo to eat vegetables.
• 40:48
  Andrew Wilder: And then, you know, he gets up.
• 40:49
  Andrew Wilder: We have breakfast together, and I take him to school.
• 40:52
  Andrew Wilder: That's my morning routine, and that gets me, psyched for the day.
• 40:55
  Andrew Wilder: That's a lot.
• 40:56
  Lisa Nichols: That's so good.
• 40:57
  Lisa Nichols: You know?
• 40:58
  Andrew Wilder: Not to read your emails, get some sunlight maybe.
• 41:01
  Lisa Nichols: Oh, yeah.
• 41:02
  Lisa Nichols: For sure.
• 41:03
  Lisa Nichols: I love that.
• 41:04
  Lisa Nichols: Getting taking him to school.
• 41:06
  Lisa Nichols: That we call that windshield time.
• 41:08
  Andrew Wilder: Windshield time.
• 41:09
  Andrew Wilder: I've not heard that.
• 41:09
  Andrew Wilder: I like that.
• 41:10
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 41:10
  Lisa Nichols: Windshield time, and it's, just a beautiful way to
• 41:13
  Andrew Wilder: to Yeah.
• 41:14
  Andrew Wilder: Tell me about tell me about the circulatory system.
• 41:17
  Andrew Wilder: Okay.
• 41:17
  Andrew Wilder: I wasn't wasn't ready for that question.
• 41:21
  Lisa Nichols: He sounds like a really, smart little smart little boy.
• 41:25
  Lisa Nichols: We've already talked about, you know, podcasts that you like to listen to,
• 41:29
  Lisa Nichols: you know, some of your favorite books.
• 41:31
  Lisa Nichols: You know, what what would you tell our listeners?
• 41:33
  Lisa Nichols: Like, is there any other, you know, advice that you would give, like, in
• 41:37
  Lisa Nichols: growing?
• 41:38
  Lisa Nichols: You know, having a growth mindset, Andrew, is so important.
• 41:41
  Andrew Wilder: Yep.
• 41:42
  Andrew Wilder: What I would say is, go find yourself a mentor.
• 41:47
  Andrew Wilder: So find someone that you look up to, that you wanna be like, and
• 41:51
  Andrew Wilder: go ask them to be your mentor.
• 41:52
  Andrew Wilder: And the worst thing that can happen is they can say no.
• 41:55
  Andrew Wilder: And the best thing that can happen is it can absolutely change your life.
• 41:58
  Andrew Wilder: And there are organizations out there that provide mentoring to people and organize
• 42:03
  Andrew Wilder: mentorship, so go and find that.
• 42:05
  Andrew Wilder: But the best way is to find a person that you like or look
• 42:07
  Andrew Wilder: up to.
• 42:08
  Andrew Wilder: Go ask Lisa if you want to.
• 42:10
  Andrew Wilder: And, find a mentor for yourself, and that will help you to
• 42:14
  Andrew Wilder: to make those plans that we talked about before, to, you know, to advance
• 42:18
  Andrew Wilder: in your career or your life or whatever it is, incrementally and, and
• 42:22
  Andrew Wilder: move forward for yourself.
• 42:23
  Andrew Wilder: So I've I've been lucky to have some amazing mentors that have really helped
• 42:27
  Andrew Wilder: me in my career and my life, and and I encourage others to do
• 42:30
  Andrew Wilder: the same.
• 42:31
  Andrew Wilder: I'm trying I'm trying to give back myself as well.
• 42:33
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 42:33
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 42:33
  Lisa Nichols: That's good.
• 42:34
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 42:35
  Lisa Nichols: Do that and then pull somebody else forward with you.
• 42:38
  Lisa Nichols: Right?
• 42:38
  Andrew Wilder: That's right.
• 42:38
  Lisa Nichols: It's really important.
• 42:40
  Lisa Nichols: Well, Andrew, this is called something extra.
• 42:42
  Lisa Nichols: I ask every guest this question.
• 42:44
  Lisa Nichols: What do you believe is this something extra that every leader needs?
• 42:50
  Andrew Wilder: I believe the something extra that every leader needs is
• 42:54
  Andrew Wilder: empathy.
• 42:55
  Andrew Wilder: We talked about that before.
• 42:56
  Andrew Wilder: I think,
• 42:58
  Andrew Wilder: you know, running a mile in someone else's shoes, seeing
• 43:02
  Andrew Wilder: what it is that they're doing.
• 43:03
  Andrew Wilder: I think too many leaders are are up on a up on a pedestal,
• 43:07
  Andrew Wilder: if you will.
• 43:08
  Andrew Wilder: I think really getting down and understanding what other people are going through
• 43:12
  Andrew Wilder: in an intimate way and being able to understand their programs.
• 43:14
  Andrew Wilder: There was that TV show number of years ago called Undercover Boss.
• 43:19
  Andrew Wilder: Yes.
• 43:19
  Andrew Wilder: And I just imagine Undercover Boss.
• 43:21
  Andrew Wilder: You know, I imagine the CEOs after Undercover Boss
• 43:25
  Andrew Wilder: must have had such a better understanding of their organization and the challenges
• 43:30
  Andrew Wilder: that people were going through.
• 43:31
  Andrew Wilder: So get down, from your pedestal and get out
• 43:35
  Andrew Wilder: there and see what your your folks are doing, And, and it'll
• 43:39
  Andrew Wilder: help you understand them better, and it'll help you be a better leader.
• 43:42
  Lisa Nichols: That's so good.
• 43:44
  Lisa Nichols: Andrew, thank you so much.
• 43:45
  Lisa Nichols: This has been so much fun.
• 43:47
  Lisa Nichols: Thank you for making the time to be on the show today.
• 43:49
  Andrew Wilder: Thanks for having me, Lisa.
• 43:50
  Andrew Wilder: I really appreciate it.
• 43:51
  Lisa Nichols: And I will see you soon.
• 43:52
  Lisa Nichols: I know.
• 43:53
  Lisa Nichols: We're in a lot of the same rooms.
• 43:56
  Lisa Nichols: Thanks so much.
• 43:57
  Announcer: Thank you.
• 43:58
  Announcer: Something extra with Lisa Nichols is a Technology Partners production.
• 44:02
  Announcer: Copyright Technology Partners Inc twenty nineteen.
• 44:05
  Announcer: To learn more about this week's guest, check out the show notes at tpi
• 44:09
  Announcer: dot co slash podcast.
• 44:11
  Announcer: If you enjoyed this episode, consider leaving us a review.
• 44:14
  Announcer: Thank you for listening to Something Extra.