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Developing Your Personnel for a Resilient Department · Fire Engineering Podcast

• FE 20261103 Fire and Training: Head into the holidays with everything you need to keep your community safe. Shop trusted brands like MSA, Streamlight, and Seek. Explore customization options across a wide range of gear and apparel, and find gift certificates, all on the firestore.com. Well, welcome to another edition of Fire and Training. I'm your host, Douglas Klein, and I am super excited about our program today. I have a phenomenal guest that's going to be joining us, you Laura Franklin, who is a battalion chief out of the city of Salisbury, North Carolina. One of the things that I always make mention to is fire and training is dedicated to the men and women who enter streets twenty-four hours a day, seven days a week, three hundred and sixty-five days a year. across our great nation and across the world serving our citizens. And our whole goal in this is to make sure we provide the best information, the best training so that everyone goes home. And as the state lead advocate for South Carolina and being involved with the National Fallen Firefighters Foundation for a number of years, all the way back to Tampa One when the Sixteen Life Safety Initiatives got started, that's very, very near and dear to me. So just a little bit about our guest. Laura Franklin, like I said, is a battalion chief out of the city of Salisbury, North Carolina. she began her career in late two thousand seven. She paved the way that she traveled rising through the ranks from a recruit to a firefighter to being an engineer to a lieutenant to a captain, and then at the current rank of battalion chief, holding an associate's degree in emergency medical sciences. and a bachelor's degree in fire and emergency services administration. She intends to continue her career in advancing and impacting others, but she has a true passion to share her knowledge, share her experiences, and she's committed to serve all those around her. And it's just an honor and a privilege to have you on the show, Lauren. Thank you so much. I really appreciate you having me. I had an opportunity for our listeners to know that I I sat and listened to her speak when I was in Raleigh at the state of North Carolina's Firefighters Association conference and we got to have some really cool conversations. The biggest thing of it is, and I'm gonna pick on her a little bit, and it's allowed. I'm an old guy, I can do that, is she doesn't remember me. we actually had a conversation after a very tragic event with inside the Salisbury, North Carolina Fire Department when I was honored to be able to help some good friends as we helped navigate through that tragic event of two line of duty deaths. One of was a recruit that she had gone through the academy with. This was not a your average recruit. This was a very seasoned individual out of the state of New York, and Vic. And he he was very near and dear to her and helped her through and was a great coach and mentor to her in the academy. But she didn't remember that. So we got to have some conversation as we go through there. Today's show we're gonna talk about something really cool and it's gonna talk about developing your personnel for the resilience of your department. And Salisbury Fire Department has been through some things and Lauren it seems like you find yourself right in the middle of a couple of To the most recent one when when there was a natural gas explosion on a working residential structure fire to where you were actually inside running a division and was trapped and and rescued out of that. So we'll talk more about that. So let's let's just kick this off. your program is is very dynamic and I know you you've delivered this several times across the state of North Carolina. I want you to begin telling us a little bit about how you develop that resiliency. What's it take to have a resilient department and resiliency in your personnel? Yeah so I think I've just kind of been handed this Just through experience, honestly. like you said, I started in two thousand seven. I was eighteen year old, brand new green rookie coming into Salisbury Fire Department and I mean resilience just started there whenever I ran my very first fire, and that fire was the line of duty deaths. So from that beginning moment, for me to to even continue on and make that choice to continue on, that had to start that resilience d from the beginning. So I chose that path. I chose to stay. Many people were very shocked and surprised that I even stayed, but I chose that path. I didn't understand what normalcy was in the fire service at all. So I didn't I was still trying to determine what the normal things were. So you coming to talk to me and visit with me, I didn't know if that was normal or not. So therefore I didn't even remember it. I'm so sorry. But to from this moment, from that moment on, I didn't start talking about the double line of duty death as my first fire until about fifteen years later. And so it took a little bit of time, but over the years, it was the leadership of that department that created that resiliency, the changes that they made. And now that I'm a battalion chief and I'm able to implement those changes and see what those changes have done to our department, I'm able to speak on it a little bit more. I opened up with my story just because it's the impactfulness of people can sit there and talk about their the reasons that they wanna r train these recruits to the level of this or whatever. But whenever you have that experience that says, hey, no, it's not that fire might happen your f no, it did happen my first one. You have to prepare them for that because when you have that experience behind it, it it hits a little differently when you're sitting in front of a classroom in front of a bunch of people. So I I was able to take the contributing factors to their death from the NIH report straight from that. And Tell everybody what we've changed at Salisbury Fire Department in the last now 18 years. And so I've I just kind of dig deep on that. I was asked specifically, I was challenged honestly. somebody wanted me to talk about that experience, but wanted me to bring in the command structure that we have for our structure fires. And I was like, I have no idea how I'm gonna bring that together. I have no idea. And so I spent probably six months trying to figure out How to connect the two without without critiquing the incident. I did not want to critique the incident because it wasn't mine to critique. I was a grook I was a green rookie that was straight out of Recruit Academy. And so I didn't have any business in the critique world. So I ended up taking it a step back. My passion has always been leadership. My passion has always been developing others and and pushing people to their their best and their max. So I ended up developing a course that's commanding the firehouse and how to operate and how to gain relationships and how to get a little deeper with your people and understanding how they operate so that you can get that best performance out of them on the fire ground. The second half is commanding the fire ground, which you have to have the firehouse control before you can have the fire ground control. And so that's kind of how that developed. And then of course just recently, this past December, I added the explosion into it just because it validates every single change that we've made over the last eighteen years and completely just it it validates everything that we've done from day one of the millwork fire to this day. Well, you know that listening to you tell the story, listening to you go through the processes that occurred and to see the end result of what happened a few months ago when we experienced that explosion, I was actually watching things online because it was like news flash, news flash, news flash, news flash going out all over the internet, all over social media. So I I I tuned in, you know, to the the media sites. I tuned in to social media sites. I actually got to watch the fire chief who's a good friend of mine speak, you know, after this had occurred. It was a little later in the evening. And Bob did a great job. he just comes in and and this guy is super dynamic and you know, laying out some of the things, you know, that they knew at this point and, you know, again kind of walking through another tragic event in his career as a chief. Yeah. And you know, that that's tough. I actually have in my office a little plaque that was given to me by the deputy chief at the time, you know, with with Salisbury Fire Department and And I th there's something else that he gave me and I don't remember exactly what it is. I think it was a coin or something like that that I've got in my collection. And it it was about what we learned and what we accomplished and what we shared because David, you know, went back out and he shared all the experiences. I mean, it was an open book of what they learned, what we knew, what we found. And I still use a lot of that information today in programs about the radios about, you people making changes in buildings and the importance of being out in your buildings and pre planning and walking through and working with these folks. So there were changes to the building that had not been approved through code. they never got permits and never been inspected. And that changes dynamics when you know a building and then all of a sudden it's changed and you don't know anything about it. That's the reason I talk so much about understanding the built environment with my good friend and colleague Chris Nom, but also in in many of the programs, especially as an officer and officer development, of of knowing your building, because it's building construction as essential to fire ground operations as as water is to fire suppression. And that's how you go about it. So all that kind of ties back to things that have occurred in in your career, events that have occurred in your career and how y'all developed your people and how you've created this resilience. Cause that organization has gone through a complete metamorphic change from probably what it looked like when you started to what it is now. And you know, we had this conversation and I'm gonna throw this out there is I thought we were a young department. we merged a little over twenty five years ago between Fire and EMS. Our organization in in Ori County has has grown significantly. I mean we're a large MetroSilist department now, like six hundred and forty folks, you know, on the career side, a hundred and fifty on the volunteer side. about ninety-three thousand responses a year, you know, from where they started with five original career people not long ago. So we're just now reaching the retirement of most of the folks that were the original folks coming in. They're just now reaching the retirement ages. So that's changed. So as growth occurs for us, we've added all these positions, all these people, and guess what? They're new. When I talked to you and you were telling me, and I'll let you tell the folks that are listening, the average years of experience on the job in your organization, it it shocked me. So let's go ahead and jump into that and let's talk about that and what you're doing to get everybody on the same sheet of music to move forward. Yeah. So unfortunately we have that issue of retention. that's just a continuous problem for Salisbury. Lower paid, lower staffing, just povert huge prover poverty, not much income. and so we have that problem, but With that also comes our level of our opportunity for experience. So we do have a lot of fires here. We burn a lot. And so that's why we have those opportunities to grow people so much. But yeah, our average right now I just did it the other day. It was five point seven six when I did it. Changes every single day, but it's it stays around the five mark, the upper five, five years of service. And so yeah, it's not our our officers can promote at three years to officer. So it's it's a really I mean we we have people in and out all the time so we understand that the fire service is young and I I say it all the time in my speeches, look, I'm tired of hearing the fire service is young and that's why we don't have the leaders we do. We we start people at eighteen. That means we retire them at thirty years at forty eight. The peak for any business is forty eight for leadership. that's when they're starting to get good at at leading people and stuff. So we don't have the excuse anymore that we're we're just young. We're we're building people to go into burning buildings and lead those kind of companies, not not multimillion industry. So our focus right now is we train everybody at the at the level that we need to be. So everybody understands all the way down to the recruit what the radio traffic should look like. We have very We have very specific radio traffic that we follow. We're very particular in how we train that, in the order that we do it, conditions, all the things in order, and we train that all the way down to the recruit. So when you're they are an officer, they're ready. So if they're office we also have this accountability thing that if they don't say it in the right order and th they're little recruits over here, hey hey Cap, did you did you add this part? they can they have that opportunity to do that. So Most of our practice comes into simulations. That's when we can have that low profile, chill, no stress moment. You can stand in front of a big screen, see a house blazing and not have the heart pumping like crazy whenever you're doing it. And you can actually get through all of your radio traffic the way you're supposed to. And then walk out of the room and then say whatever's on the screen. I mean, that's how we started all of our new transition from it from quince to engine and truck. That's how we started our transition with rolling new PDAs or any kind of changes we do. We do it in simulations and we literally hand every single person a radio so that they understand what they're listening for. that's one thing that I never in our fur in my very first fire with the Maydays, I never even heard the Mayday go out because my officer said, Hey, turn your radio down. I don't want it to squill. that's that's the typical thing. People just tell you, turn your radios down. Or it's just not the case anymore where we're teaching everybody how to use their radio, what should be said, how it should be said, and everything that's not acceptable in between. Well and and that's a a point. So I want to go back and reiterate something. she gave the number of five point seven odd numbers there added in at the back side of the average years of experience in their department. That's overall. That's not like you the lower ranks, whatever, that's the entire department. And we we kinda have something very, very unique and common between the two organizations. You know, we have a very young experience age as well here. Of course when you add thirty to you know, s plus positions at a time, that kinda drops, you know, your numbers down a little bit. But experience. So she was talking about burning and having a lot of fires. And I I can remember when I started back in seventy nine And that was the end of quote unquote America burning or what they call the war years and all that type of stuff. And the amount of fires that we were going to. And of course I grew up in rural West Virginia, so you talk about poverty, you know, we definitely had it. We went to a lot of the typical routine, what we call bread and butter fires. It was your single wide, it's a few double wides, smaller homes. So y you you said you run a lot of fires, which is kinda unique to to a lot of organizations today because we're seeing officers across the United States being promoted to that first level supervisor with less than than five or so first due working fires under their belts. So in in all the process that we've been going through here, you know, as 'cause we're we're very analytical of of the stuff we do. We're data driven. We do all that type of stuff in in the my organization. You know, so We looked at it, we're averaging thirteen to fourteen fires a week, working fires a week. And that's unique. And not a lot of folks can say that. But we do get a lot of experience. And our operations on the fire ground is is, you know, pr pretty stellar. now you did mention something about you've got to be able to manage the firehouse before you can manage the fire ground. And you said your officers can promote it three years, so can we. or first line supervisors, you have to have three years of experience before you can, you know, take the test, plus you have to have certain, you know, criteria and put in there of education and and training and certificates and things like that. But y you're exactly right. And one of the things that you can see and if you've not seen this or listeners can look this up, you know, on on the internet with the Salisbury, North Carolina Fire Department and that explosion which you were in and listen I think to most of the radio traffic could see the the videos, they can see everything. And the discipline that I saw, and that was something that jumped out at me very quickly, is the discipline I saw in the people that were operating there, it was like they had done this a hundred times. There was nobody like spazzing out. There were nobody that was doing things they weren't. There was, when something was missed or something that should have been said, somebody was picking that slack up. And it was not it wasn't like somebody was upset that something was said. It was like, You're right, cr you know, and it just flowed so well. So let's talk a little bit about that station environment of how how you create that discipline in there for the resiliency that you have to have in everything we do in the fire service. So for us we're super Pro training, obviously. that's pretty much all we do, especially having the rollover that we do have. We have to train at the recruit level for majority of our career right now. I mean, there's not one day that I'm not dealing with, as a battalion chief, not dealing with testing a recruit at some point. And so we're constantly working on different packets. our recruit packet specifically is the the primary one that we get a lot in at one time. It is super detailed. It is very, very like it's high strong. It's very, very deep. And so each month you go you we even move you to another truck. If you're not assigned to an engine and you're doing your engine month, we put you on the engine for 10 shifts straight until you pass your engine month. I mean you have to know the specifics. You have to know the length, the weight, the width, every hose that's on it, everything that's on it, inventory, the whole nine yards. So it's just a very disciplined atmosphere when it comes to just even the firehouse stuff. And you had mentioned the routineness of everything in absolute chaos. As 'cause we practice that stuff, I mean it's we practice Maydays. It's not comfortable to do, it's not comfortable to hear on the other end. It's not comfortable to practice at all. But it was very, very obvious that the one that called the May Day has done that more than once in his life. And it's not that is the first time he's ever done it on a fire ground, but it felt exactly the same to him as the the training that we've done multiple times over and over again. I mean we we literally put assignments on the board every radio check this month of October, you're gonna do a Mayday call out and it needs to be different than the f the one you did the shift prior. And so we dressed very strategic like that on just every any category that you can think of. We just we throw it out there for training for the month and we go for it. and that's that's really, really good. And that's how and for our listeners, a as a guy that does a lot of training and and you know, works through that, it's it that's very important, of how you get that repetitiveness in. the uniqueness of how you change that repetitiveness to resemble what you could get in and what you could be involved with is important and and again that that becomes a culture. And that's what we're talking about is a a true culture. And we were talking about fires. They're dispatching one now for some type of a commercial building. I don't think I think it's more electrical than nature, but you know, there you go. That that's you know, the dispatches that, go out and that's what we deal with in our world. But that discipline, that focus becomes part of what I talk about frequently in courses and that's an attitude. And you have to have the right attitude about what you're doing and about the significance in this. And that becomes the attributes. the National Fallen Firefighters Foundation and with the Everyone Goes Home program, you know, the the Hero program, has a program called Attributes of Leadership. And it goes through like twelve different components of that, that you get a video and then you go through and it it takes a while to go through these, but you also are are setting up a plan of how you're going make change within your organization. And that's a lot of what happened from the time period in 2007 when you started to where we're at in 2026 today is those attributes of leadership that have transpired over that time period. And one that sticks out to me about you is grit. And when I say grit, it means that you have the fortitude and the ability to continue on. I mean, stop and think about it. You've you've had a you know pretty dynamic career. Yeah, you see that sign over my right shoulder? Yeah. you see it, grit. Grit command. I didn't even see that. That that's pretty cool. I didn't see that. Her office looks a whole lot better than mine. That's funny. I was like, Thank you. and and just life in general for you has has forced you to have grit. Yeah. And you know, I I'm just so impressed with that component of your ability and leadership. And what you bring to that table and and that grit, I mean, there were a lot of people that lived through the grit and helped create, you know, that attribute of leadership that exists within that organization, plus all these others that go in there, the commitments and you know, things like that. But y if there's one thing that sticks out to you, what has made the major difference in creating the organization to the level it is today with the youthfulness? And again, this is another one of my programs, you know, I always talk about the next generation, what are we going to do with them? And that's a whole program I do. And basically I say there's nothing wrong with the next generation. So tell us about that within what your philosophies, what the organization philosophies are, and how you get them to where they're at today. Well, lucky for this podcast anyway. We had just had one of our officer meetings that we came up with new values and new mission. And so, it was really cool to come together and actually just put those together. I have right here and I just pulled them up. we chose excellence, accountability, and vision. And excellence is the resilient pursuit of unobtainable perfection. And then accountability, own it, hold the standard, no excuses. And then a vision, see beyond today, lead for tomorrow, with our mission statement being be the solution. And so all of those just hold so much punch to that and what we believe for and how our culture is in the department. we know that our our life is on the line. I mean we're we're firefighters and again we have so much experience, opportunity for the experience. We're going to fight fire. They're not the victims aren't gonna wait. I th I think it was thirteen hands on victims in the last three years for Salisbury Fire Department. Hands on pulling out. And it's not I'm not saying life saves, I'm not saying I'm just saying hands on victims, thirteen and three years. That's a lot of opportunities. And that's a lot of opportunity that we can't wait for to be re training new people in new positions. And we have to. We're forced to do that. And so that's that gives zero opportunity to sit in a recliner. That gives zero opportunity to sit there and just chill. Like we have stuff to do. We have things to cover. There's so much to cover to get you ready for that fire because it's coming. I mean, it's it's here every single day. And so I think just a mentality that we have to keep people accountability like the accountability thing is huge here. But in order to have that accountability level in a department, you have to be supported by the upper management. You have to be supported by the chiefs. If you're trying to hold recruits accountable to a certain level, if they if they fail this packet and Salisbury Fire Department said, Hey, if you fail this many times, then we have to fire you. They have to be willing to fire you for the life safety of themselves and others around them. We just have to be willing to do that. You know, you were talking about developing the mission, the vision, and some of those things and and restructuring it. Just a few years ago we did the same thing. And our mission is to serve the community by providing professional fire, rescue, and emergency medical services. That's basically what we do every single day. So we came up with a cool vision. And I think this is this is very, very accurate for what we do and and what the emergency services does. And the the county slogan is committed to excellence. So we took that as a vision and said we're committed to excellence today for a safer tomorrow. And that's really what we're trying to do. We're we're trying to focus on all those things that exist. And, you know, again, it's our values are honor, integrity, respect, responsibility, accountability, quality, and professionalism. All those are the things that we're talking about here that I want the listeners to understand. If you're trying to build a department, and I don't care whether your career, your volunteer, your combination, it doesn't matter. We're the fire service. And when we quit using these titles that stick out there, which I really do not like the titles, we're the fire service. We're firefighters, we're fire de you know, rescue organizations. Some of us only do fire, some do fire and rescue, some do all these specialties like for us, we do fire, we do rescue, we do hazmat, we dive, we do swift water, we have you know, boats, we have a fire boat, we have wildland teams, you know, we have all these plethora of things we do, plus we run EMS. you were talking about grabs and thirteen was over how how l many years or how long? Three. Three years. Three years. We have for the most part made grabs like that in less than a year. We've given I think it's twelve times now we've given you know the antidote for hydrogen cyanide on victims we've pulled out. And currently and let me tell you what our medics and our our folks in the field and all of our people are just phenomenal. I can't say enough about But we got like a sixty six percent chance or sixty six percent, you know, really good effects. off of giving the high the synode kits, to to people. our folks did a tremendous grab and I and I have to brag on It's it's kind of like bragging on your organization and your people and what they do. This is why you train. This is why we have discipline. This is why things work. Is the law enforcement agencies or the police officer that were on scene with us said it looked like we walked through Hades. They used another word, but I'll use Hades. to get this child as a is like a two year old child to get out. The child was in arrest. they actually did everything, you know, phenomenally. They they did all the you know, the processes of medical stuff, you know, the hydrogen cyanide stuff and all. You know, unfortunately this child did not survive long term. But what we did do was we got the child resuscitated, you know, through our efforts, through the efforts of our trauma center. all these things to give that family time to process. And then we all went and because they chose organ donation, we all decided, you know, in the process, we're gonna go support this. And the walk of honor was lined with the crews that were there, with law enforcement folks, with, you know, all the people that support that. It was just just an umbling event that was heartbreaking to begin with. But for them to be able to to have that support doing what they were doing and we bought them some time. And that's really what it's about. It's about serving our community and the people. And that's the most important thing. the people we serve out there, that's that's who's number one. you know, as Chief Brunicini used to say, you know, Mrs. Smith or I've heard others say, Mrs. Smith, Mr. Smith, Mrs. Rodriguez, whomever it may be. That's who we're going to. We're going to their sides on the worst days of their life and making it better. And we do it routinely. And it's just like your organization, what they did. I I cannot I I really want our listeners to go and and look at that event in Salisbury, North Carolina and see what, you know, Chief Franklin's talking about here. It is phenomenal. I I can't say enough about it and that's what we practice for. That's why we train. That's why we we go out there. So when I was talking about this with a friend of mine, they said, How did you choose this topic? How did you come up with this? And they they know, you know, who you are, Chief, and they're but how'd you pick this topic? And I said, When I listened to her and saw the passion that was coming out, and I can go back and see that young y lady that was sitting in an interview that don't even remember me. Of course I will try to forget me too, but doesn't remember that, that has taken and and has the fortitude to share. That's what fire and training is really all about in my heart, is we want to share with people. We want to give people information. We want them to have the best of the knowledge. And what we're doing right now is actually training people of what they need to be doing in their stations of of doing Mayday, of of holding accountability. You know, that that's super important. So, you know, what are some of your thoughts? We've been sitting here, you know, jawjacking as I call it for about thirty minutes now. What's in your mind? I want you to have the opportunity to just free flow out. Yeah. So I I really want to hit on this explosion and how important and vital, literally vital each person, each recruit, firefighter, at all the ranks. it was so dynamic and there was so many opportunities that that everything together ended up saving our lives on this explosion specifically. Now with this this ranch style house, I mean it had a pretty extensive Charlie bump out and that's really what was on fire at the time. So when we made our attack on the alpha side, we went in straight through the alpha so that we could cut it off to the main portion of the house. So when we went in, we had smoke, pretty thick, black, gnarly smoke, probably about down to our knees, mid thighs to our knees. And so we knew we didn't have a whole lot of time in there, but we had to make a difference pretty quick. we started putting I mean it it's literally on these fire grounds. Everybody's like ants. Like everybody has their job, they're going to do what they're doing with very little speaking at all on the radio. And so everybody's going. we had the First in officer, the one that was on the nozzle, he said, he called out to the the commander outside and said, Hey, I think we're getting water on the fire. How's it looking out there? And as soon as you say the words water on the fire, that means open up. that's our our trigger word for a lot of things. And so they're opening up as soon as that goes through, they're opening up on the outside. They're louvering the hole at the top that they've already cut. I mean, everything's just going into place. And how that place was just cut up. We all have were were pushed to the right side of this house. So we're just all in one area. But whenever they he said water on the fire in the right time, and they start there's one video of the firefighter on the front porch going, Hey Cap, hey Cap, take this window, like trying to confirm. And he's he couldn't get an answer from his cap. His cap's sitting there just busy doing something else. And he goes, and just has to he's sitting in this moment. This is a recruit. Zi's sitting in this moment and he's going back to okay, what is my training? I'm not getting a a complete answer from him, what is my training? And he hits the window. And that window vers that window plus the ventilation hole cleared the space that we were in. So once it did explode, and we watch the videos over and over again, when the explosion happens, every room fireballs out of it, except the one that he broke that window to, all the way to that vent hole. So all of them all the way around. is exactly where we were standing. So all the decisions that have to be made, just the the vent hole already being cut. I mean that's a whole nother aspect to it. You know, it's all the ventilation that happens simultaneously at the time of water application to to the fire, it just it genuinely saved our lives. So for for our listeners to know on the inside when it occurred, you were working the interior division. And when the explosion occurred, you were rendered unconscious, trapped underneath some debris. And let's pick it up from there. You tell the rest of the story. man, I'm I'm actually writing on this part right now, but what a humbling experience this is. I mean, I we have seven people inside the structure when it goes off. Now mind you, like that smoke that I'm telling you that was down to our knees, when they opened up. We were face to face. it wa we were standing up at that point. We were very comfortable with what we've done. We're very comfortable with control on the fire. We've got it pushed back enough to where we literally are face to face talking to each other, hey, head over here. Hey, I need another line. Hey, I mean we've got all the videos in tier and everything. And so for us to be so comfortable with that, and then all of a sudden the floor just lifts up underneath us and the whole house ends up coming in. Yeah, I was completely out by then. I d I don't remember anything beyond waking up in the front yard and just very confused because the house that I looked at in the front yard was not the house that I was just at in my mind. So super odd experience, very out of body almost experience, especially presenting on it now and showing videos and building these videos. It's a very, very humbling experience. But every person that had hands on I've had some kind of interaction with personally, in the firehouse, I mean, dinner with, moving in my new home, like so many different levels of what goes in in the firehouse really does come out on that fire ground. Like it's not I'm not saying that if y'all weren't best friends, if they weren't good friends with me, that they wouldn't pull me out. But I'm saying that if they're trained up to a l a certain level, It doesn't if I'm unconscious, it doesn't matter what I tell them at this point 'cause I'm not telling them anything. So really my life depended on everything that's been told to them and their officers and their engineers and what and that's a the constant effect that you have on people is what you're teaching them they're passing down and they're passing down and they're passing down in high hopes that it'll save your life one day and and fortunately for me it it really did. I mean I had hands on me before my pastibites went off. Mm it never activated. And so out from the explosion to me outside on the porch was three minutes total. Yeah. So to th throw in there, I know this is probably sticking in somebody's mind. They had controlled utilities. There was an issue with a gas leak, which was on the other side of the meter. Okay. So everything was done in the process that's supposed to be done. This was something that was there. Evidently because of the atmospheric pressure, the area that it was actually located in, it was accumulating, but you couldn't smell it. that was one of the uniquenesses, and that's the reason that we talk so much about, you know, propane and and natural gas of how important it is on these gas leaks to be, you know, very focused, very diligent, you know, very safety minded when we respond to This was hidden. This was one of those hidden events that all of a sudden it it got the right air ratio fuel mixture with an ignition source and then we had this, you know, catastrophic event that occurred or as we call it in the world of of command and and rapid intervention and that as a sudden hazardous event that forced us into a May Day and and a rescue situation of, you know, rescuing one of our own. So you we we get you out, we get you taken care of. You're off the streets for how many months? I was off for seven months total. Seven months. And back on back in the house now, back doing things. Yep. Still having some, you know, you know, residual type things that do occur. Let me explain something to you. That's that's resilience there. That's that's what it takes to get, you know, to the next level and and to keep moving. But that's also passion. That's the passion that's coming out of Chief here about making sure the folks that are coming behind her, as we see with Paul Combs when he's building the wall and the bricks and and the legacy, that's that's the legacy. That's the wall that we're building, that's the foundation, that's the shoulders of giants we're standing on. And you got an opportunity to stand on a lot of giants here. truly an amazing story and truly the pathway of how she described how they've built resilience and how that resilience and how all those things have led to positive outcomes on multiple fires that has now transitioned out into mutual aid companies and how everybody functions that are coming in. Just a tremendous, tremendous, you know, event of how we do things. So as we're getting close to a time period to wrap up, I want to give you the floor to any any parting thoughts, anything that you would like to throw out there. I definitely want to take the time to just tell everybody, take the opportunities. That's that's one thing I we preach on huge and we do daily, is take the opportunities of your fire alarm activations. Take the opportunity of your med calls, depending on what your company is. If you've got a new recruit, pull a line. When it doesn't matter. the fire alarm activations where you own the building for the next fifteen minutes or so, however long you're there. And take the moment to to set up your aerial. your new drivers are just new buildings. Even if they're older drivers, new buildings can can trip you up sometimes. we're getting into a point now where if we have a sprinkler activation, I tell them in like a big box, I tell them, hey, radio out to us and make it like it's on fire right there. And we'll reposition the trucks. Let us reposition the trucks till we can get in the right place. Those are the times you need to practice. That's how that's how you get good at at what you're doing whenever the big one comes out. Well, I I'm gonna tell one on myself. So if I can pick on you, I can pick on myself, right? Sure. Sure. We're coming back from an automatic alarm. This is many years ago. Bill Meton was the battalion chief I was working for at the time. I was on Tower seventy one out of station three, which was off of Elliot Road in Chapel Hill, and he came over the radio and said, I need you in this parking lot and I need you to set your truck up to go to the roof. And I'm like, Okay. This is three o'clock in the morning. I'm like, Okay. I I'm like, what do we have? He said, I just need you to do it. And my driver, which was Dennis Bailey, and let me tell you what, you talk about a ladder driver, that guy was phenomenal. He could fit that seventy three well it was seventy four and a half thousand pound apparatus that was forty eight and a half feet long through the eye of a needle and never scratched the mirrors. But we pulled over and and of course we had a standard of how fast that truck needed to go up and and how fast the bucket needed to come out of the cradle and somebody in it and everything and w we did it and when I got to the roof I said, I have absolutely nothing visible. What am I looking for? And he said, I was just looking to see how fast you could get that thing set up, see if you were as good as you said you were. Nice. And I'm like, no, you didn't. Not at three o'clock in the morning. No, you didn't. I was about ready to kill him. Yeah. But you know, but again looking back, having a little more hindsight, being twenty twenty, a little more years of experience underneath the belt, that's the stuff you gotta do. And you gotta get out and train. You know, the Paul Combs does all kinds of great stuff. in his drawings and and I love the one where the guys are sitting in the recliners and it's the you know, the old guys with the big salty mustaches and the guy with the pink bunny slippers and here's this other guy over to the side and he's got a a book out and he's reading and what are you doing? Trying to make us all look bad? And but yeah, that's what we need to be doing. We need to be studying, we need to be, you know, perfecting our craft. We need to be learning because everything is, you know, dimensionally changing. at a rate that is nonstop and it's it's not slowing down any and our environments are different, fires are different, you know, experience levels are different. The number of times we go to these events are different. So we gotta be doing this. Yeah. So you know, Chief, I am super excited that you took the opportunity to join me. And I I'm very proud of all the things you're doing. You're you've got a great message. I wanted to get it out. on the show here of Fire and Training and again if if anybody has any questions, you know, as our listeners from the audience, you can always reach out to Chief Franklin in Salisbury, North Carolina. Just you you can look it up online and get in there to her. Great organization, great leadership there. she's part of that dynamic leadership. Super proud of what she's doing and and and the message that she's sharing. And I I'm glad I got the opportunity to sit on the opposite side of the table because when I was in there I was kind of the guy that was the educator. And then I got to sit back and be educated. And that's probably one of the most unique things that I find is when people are teaching you that you've had previously and again I can't say how proud I am of you and and what a great, you know, opportunity it is. Parting thoughts. I've got plenty. I'll keep going all day long. Yeah, you let me go. No, no. Well, here's the thing I'm gonna say to our listeners. You've had another great edition of Fire and Training with Battalion Chief Laura Franklin. super great instructor, super great leader, has a great message. You can look all the stuff up we talked about if you're not familiar with it. But I wanna thank our listeners for tuning in to another edition of Fire and Training again. We're dedicated to the men and women who are in the streets. and working to make things better. going to people's sides twenty four hours a day, seven days a week, doing the job we do. And I would be remiss if I didn't state that FDIC is not that far away. I'm honored, you know, to to be selected again to be back at F D I C as as an instructor presenter. I'm in the pre conference. I'm gonna be presenting a topic that I've I've presented several times in different locations and I get the opportunity to present it in pre-conference talking about toxic leadership and what that really means. And this kind of will dovetail back over to that where we show what is not toxic leadership and what is and getting people to understand. The last time I did this program, I think I stepped on a bunch of people's toes because I could see it in their faces. And I think it was realizations. I'm looking forward to being at FDIC. Thank you to Diane and David and the entire FDIC advisory committee and the folks that go through all those thousands and thousands of proposals. And it is an honor and a privilege to be back there. Chief, thank you for joining us. To the next time we get together on Fire and Training, I'm your host, Douglas Klein, and I look forward to seeing you on another edition of our show. Stay safe, train hard, train often, and remember. Everyone goes home. Thank you, G.