Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Missing Maura Murray: Lance & Tim search for answers

Transcript

Missing Maura Murray: Lance & Tim search for answers · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:08
Speaker 1: On February ninth and two thousand four, Maura Murray left
0:11
Speaker 1: her dorm in Massachusetts and drove some one miles into
0:15
Speaker 1: New Hampshire. Her car hit a tree. It's cold, it's desolate,
0:21
Speaker 1: it's barren, and it's very dark. This is crime stories.
0:26
Speaker 1: But Nancy Grace, a person came along, was driving bus,
0:32
Speaker 1: was a neighbor. He asked her she knew to help,
0:34
Speaker 1: she refused. My immediate reaction when I found open my
0:37
Speaker 1: daughter was miss him was right at the EDG Japanic.
0:41
Speaker 1: She found her cock was in an accident. She's not there.
0:44
Speaker 1: Where is she? Where is the search now? How far
0:47
Speaker 1: do you look now? And it turns out there but
0:49
Speaker 1: there was no re search. The initial conclusions at the
0:53
Speaker 1: scene was that Mara had probably left on her own
0:56
Speaker 1: free will. Imagine this a old February evening, very close
1:02
Speaker 1: to Valentine's Day, and you have a fender bender, but
1:08
Speaker 1: your family says you're never seen again. I cannot even
1:14
Speaker 1: imagine what it would be like to race to the
1:17
Speaker 1: scene of a fender bender of my sister, my mom,
1:22
Speaker 1: my husband, and the cars there, all their stuffs inside,
1:29
Speaker 1: but they're gone. I just held that thought for a moment.
1:33
Speaker 1: Hello everybody, It's Nancy Grace with crime stories and I'm
1:37
Speaker 1: talking about, of course Maura Murray and joining me along
1:43
Speaker 1: with the Duke Alan Duke investigative reporter today two special
1:46
Speaker 1: guests Tim and Lance. They have made it their mission
1:51
Speaker 1: to find out what happened to missing Maura Murray. I
1:55
Speaker 1: want to thank someone for being with us today. It
1:58
Speaker 1: is Simply Safe, Simply Safe home protection and alarm system.
2:04
Speaker 1: You know, thousands of people across America every day want
2:08
Speaker 1: a security system, but they think they cannot afford it.
2:12
Speaker 1: I have a security system, got a security system for
2:15
Speaker 1: my mom. This is called Simply Safe and I love it.
2:19
Speaker 1: As a matter of fact, a lady in our neighborhood,
2:22
Speaker 1: Ms Shirley, her husband passed away recently. He was a
2:26
Speaker 1: World War Two vet like my father. She's all a
2:29
Speaker 1: one and she's been very concerned because somebody will come
2:32
Speaker 1: and ring her doorbell at like three o'clock in the morning.
2:36
Speaker 1: And the other morning she woke up around three o'clock
2:40
Speaker 1: in the morning and she could hear someone outside whistling, whistling,
2:45
Speaker 1: and it scared her so much. Well, she got a
2:47
Speaker 1: Simply Safe. It's fourteen nine a month, and this is
2:53
Speaker 1: one of my mom's best friends. I feel so much
2:56
Speaker 1: better knowing she has it. The thing about it is
2:59
Speaker 1: you can afford it doesn't have any contracts. It's seven
3:04
Speaker 1: three six protection. There are security professionals watching and they
3:09
Speaker 1: react instantly and send the police. And you can get
3:14
Speaker 1: temper sent off by going to simply save dot com
3:17
Speaker 1: slash Nancy, simply safe dot com slash Nancy. And I
3:23
Speaker 1: certainly would not have suggested this to my mom or
3:27
Speaker 1: her friends if I did not believe that home alarm
3:32
Speaker 1: systems stop crime like simply safe. That's what I think.
3:37
Speaker 1: Now this is what we know. February nine, two thousand
3:40
Speaker 1: four have her hill in Hampshire, Lovely area, rural not
3:45
Speaker 1: too far from a town. Murray, a nursing student at
3:50
Speaker 1: University Massachusetts, never disappeared before, but that afternoon Feb nine,
3:57
Speaker 1: before she leaves campus, she emailed her teachers and her
4:01
Speaker 1: work manager that she was taking a week off. Now
4:08
Speaker 1: she set us because of a death in the family,
4:10
Speaker 1: but no one can confirm that. At first, I almost
4:15
Speaker 1: hate to say this, it sounds like a bad echo.
4:18
Speaker 1: Police treat it as a missing person case. Uh that
4:25
Speaker 1: was because of her alleged travel preps, no sign of
4:29
Speaker 1: foul play, She's never been seen again. This is fab nine,
4:35
Speaker 1: two thousand and four. But she's still on vacation. I
4:40
Speaker 1: don't buy it, and I'm also suspicious as to who
4:44
Speaker 1: or why those messages were sent to a work supervisor
4:49
Speaker 1: and professors at school. Let's bring in now, Tim and Lance, guys.
4:54
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for being with us. Tim, I've
4:57
Speaker 1: never believed this was a voluntary missing case. Never. Yeah,
5:01
Speaker 1: thank you very much for having us on. Nancy. Um, yeah,
5:04
Speaker 1: it's it's definitely a confusing case, to say the least.
5:08
Speaker 1: I don't like that. I don't like confusing, and I'll
5:11
Speaker 1: tell you why, because to me, it's very clear. I'm
5:14
Speaker 1: not confused. I mean, honestly, you confused. You think she
5:18
Speaker 1: just went on vacation, never showed back up, just left
5:21
Speaker 1: her nursing studies, left her family, left her job, everything,
5:24
Speaker 1: and went to Hey with it. I'm just gonna leave
5:27
Speaker 1: and leave my car and everything else. You really think
5:30
Speaker 1: that's what happened. Thirteen years have gone by. I think
5:34
Speaker 1: it's very very difficult to to believe that she's still
5:38
Speaker 1: out there. I'm not confused at all. She was taken
5:42
Speaker 1: and she was killed. Tim and Lance joining me from
5:46
Speaker 1: their Missing Morra Murray podcast. Let's go through the facts.
5:50
Speaker 1: You start, Tim, Okay, well she got into a single
5:53
Speaker 1: car accident at about seven thirty pm. And back at up,
5:57
Speaker 1: back at up, Mr Man, single car accident. You sound
6:02
Speaker 1: like a cop for Pete. I'm glad that you started, Tim,
6:05
Speaker 1: your eggs, little boy. But when you say a single
6:09
Speaker 1: car accident, let's let's talk about what happened. Okay, what happened?
6:13
Speaker 1: What do you mean by single car accident? I'll never forget.
6:15
Speaker 1: When I was a brand new prosecutor, I was trying
6:18
Speaker 1: to drop up indictments for the grand jury, which basically
6:22
Speaker 1: means you're stuck with reading a big, huge file and
6:24
Speaker 1: then you boil it down. You figure out what counts
6:28
Speaker 1: should this person be charged with, if any, and you
6:31
Speaker 1: fear it through all the information and come up with
6:33
Speaker 1: the correct felon accounts. And I was reading a police
6:35
Speaker 1: important and said, we secreted ourselves. I'm like, what you
6:39
Speaker 1: secreted yourselves? I figured out that's cop taught for We
6:42
Speaker 1: went and hid. Okay, Now, single car accident brings back
6:46
Speaker 1: secreted memories, and what that means is they hid themselves
6:50
Speaker 1: to spy on somebody. So when you say single car accident,
6:54
Speaker 1: this is important, Tim and Lance. What did you hit?
6:58
Speaker 1: My point is was it stay aged? What did she hit? Well,
7:02
Speaker 1: there are some out there, there's a school thought out
7:04
Speaker 1: there that, um, the accident was not It didn't appear
7:09
Speaker 1: to be to be a normal miss miss interpretation of
7:13
Speaker 1: a curve. Route one twelve was extremely windy and it
7:16
Speaker 1: was dark, and there could have been a situation where
7:19
Speaker 1: she might have hit some black ice and overcorrected. Um,
7:22
Speaker 1: but the damage on her car was not really consistent
7:24
Speaker 1: with the damage. Um that do we know what she hit?
7:28
Speaker 1: It was a guard I leill tell you it was
7:30
Speaker 1: a guardrail, for Pete's sake, a guardrail on Route nine
7:34
Speaker 1: in Hadley. Um, No, wait a minute, that was a
7:37
Speaker 1: different father's car. That's right, that was her dad's car. Yeah,
7:41
Speaker 1: she had an accident two days beforehand with her father's
7:43
Speaker 1: car right outside of you Mass. So what do we
7:46
Speaker 1: know about her fender bender? It was the police report
7:52
Speaker 1: says she hit a tree, but we don't believe that's true.
7:56
Speaker 1: We think it was a snow bank. Right. You really
7:58
Speaker 1: couldn't be going that fast that road to hit a tree.
8:01
Speaker 1: If she was going that fast to go through the
8:03
Speaker 1: snowbank to hit the tree, the damage would have been
8:05
Speaker 1: very obvious and the car would have been in a
8:07
Speaker 1: different spot. Let me ask you a question. What I'm
8:10
Speaker 1: getting at and why I find this significant is really
8:13
Speaker 1: no detail is insignificant in any criminal case, especially if
8:18
Speaker 1: it catches your interest. If you find something unusual about it,
8:22
Speaker 1: you need to at least investigate it. My point is,
8:26
Speaker 1: I don't really care if she hit a stop sign,
8:29
Speaker 1: a tree, or snowbank. But what I'm wondering is was
8:32
Speaker 1: it stage does somebody else do that to her car?
8:35
Speaker 1: Or was she in the car struggling for the wheel
8:39
Speaker 1: and it went off the road. How do I know
8:42
Speaker 1: she was driving the car or even in the car.
8:46
Speaker 1: So let's start with A before we get to Z A.
8:50
Speaker 1: Do we have any indication whatsoever that she was driving
8:54
Speaker 1: the car? Yes, so a neighbor, butch Atwood, he lived
8:58
Speaker 1: about a hundred yards away from the accident scene, was
9:01
Speaker 1: driving his bus. He was a bus driver. He was
9:03
Speaker 1: driving his bus home that night and came upon the
9:05
Speaker 1: scene probably about a minute later, and spoke to Maura,
9:09
Speaker 1: told her that if she wanted, she could go back
9:12
Speaker 1: to his house and get warm. She said, it's okay.
9:15
Speaker 1: I already called Triple A. She told him not to
9:17
Speaker 1: call the police. He said he was going to call
9:19
Speaker 1: the police, he said, She said, no, I already called
9:20
Speaker 1: Triple A. Okay, hold on right there. Unless I was
9:24
Speaker 1: phrasing to death, I would not go in an unknown
9:28
Speaker 1: man's house. And he was a very He was a
9:31
Speaker 1: very intimidating looking man. He was over three hundred pounds
9:34
Speaker 1: um grizzled, grizzled man. So I don't find that unusual. Now,
9:39
Speaker 1: some people would say, oh, she didn't want to go
9:41
Speaker 1: in there because she had another plan. She was going
9:43
Speaker 1: to take off with so and so. I wouldn't go
9:45
Speaker 1: in there either. So she had a cell phone? Correct, Yeah,
9:48
Speaker 1: that's correct. Did she call Triple A? Is that real? No,
9:52
Speaker 1: you can't if you go there today like today, you
9:55
Speaker 1: can't get cell phone reception in that area. And he
9:57
Speaker 1: knew that too. But do we know of cell phone
10:00
Speaker 1: record where she tried to call? It does not exist.
10:03
Speaker 1: She there was no activity on her phone. Okay that
10:06
Speaker 1: that that's legitimate to say she didn't have cell reception.
10:10
Speaker 1: I don't know that, but I do know cell phone
10:12
Speaker 1: records don't lie. So she didn't call, She didn't call,
10:16
Speaker 1: and she lied to the guy. Now do I hold
10:19
Speaker 1: that against her? No, because I might make something up
10:22
Speaker 1: in order to get away from some dude trying to
10:24
Speaker 1: get me to get into his head. I wouldn't this, Okay,
10:26
Speaker 1: So what happens then she doesn't go to the house.
10:30
Speaker 1: What happens, Well, then another neighbor pretty much directly across
10:35
Speaker 1: the street at seven calls and speaks to operator UH
10:43
Speaker 1: and explains the scenario outside of her window and describes
10:48
Speaker 1: a flurry of activity at the trunk and between does
10:52
Speaker 1: she see does she see Maura at the trunk? She
10:55
Speaker 1: sees a woman? A woman? Well, I still think that
10:59
Speaker 1: was Ara unless because you know, I statistically a woman
11:03
Speaker 1: is not going to kidnap another woman out on an
11:06
Speaker 1: ice bank. Okay, that's not gonna happen. So let's go
11:10
Speaker 1: with that's moraw for right now. Now that's I'm trying
11:13
Speaker 1: to time it. How soon did that How close was
11:16
Speaker 1: that call to police actually getting there? The one of
11:19
Speaker 1: the police officers, Cecil Smith, was dispatched at seven nine
11:23
Speaker 1: at seven forty, the Atwood residents um spoke to one
11:31
Speaker 1: give me those times again, I'm sorry, seven forty seven
11:33
Speaker 1: forty the Atwood residents called one was busy. They got
11:38
Speaker 1: a call back from UM from dispatch at seven forty two.
11:43
Speaker 1: The first witness call was at seven seven, and so
11:47
Speaker 1: the first officer arrived on the scene at seven forty six.
11:51
Speaker 1: So there were two nine one one calls. So you've
11:53
Speaker 1: got nineteen minutes between them seeing her at the trunk
11:58
Speaker 1: and the cop getting there. Nineteen minutes, is that right? Yes?
12:01
Speaker 1: Now that second the first time they called nine one
12:04
Speaker 1: one it was busy? Is that when they saw her?
12:06
Speaker 1: That was a few minutes later? That right, That was
12:08
Speaker 1: a few minutes later. But Chadwood went back to his house,
12:11
Speaker 1: told his wife to call. He went back to his
12:13
Speaker 1: bus and couldn't quite see the accident scene, but saw
12:16
Speaker 1: cars going by in the In the meantime, Faith Westman,
12:20
Speaker 1: the first witness across the street, called, and that's when
12:25
Speaker 1: that's when police were dispatched. And that was that the
12:32
Speaker 1: first call, and seven was when police Cecil Smith was
12:36
Speaker 1: dispatched to the scene and he got their nineteen minutes later, correct,
12:40
Speaker 1: at seven. What I'm trying to figure out is how
12:43
Speaker 1: much time elapsed between someone actually seeing her at the
12:47
Speaker 1: trump and the cop getting there, as long as Faith
12:50
Speaker 1: Westman kept her eyes on on on the car the
12:53
Speaker 1: entire time. We don't we don't really know. We don't
12:56
Speaker 1: know when Faith Westman hung up the phone and why
12:58
Speaker 1: she hung up the phone. So the last time we
13:01
Speaker 1: know someone saw her was Butch Atwood at between seven
13:06
Speaker 1: and seven thirty. Because there's nothing, there's no time stamp
13:10
Speaker 1: on when he saw her. We just know that during
13:12
Speaker 1: Faith Wesman's call, he at one point arrived and spoke
13:15
Speaker 1: to more. Okay, so tell me the next secret of
13:20
Speaker 1: what happens next in the sequence of event. Well, she
13:24
Speaker 1: was gone by the time Cecil Smith arrived at and
13:27
Speaker 1: you're saying someone spoke to her other than Butch Adams,
13:30
Speaker 1: which was the only person that we know of to
13:32
Speaker 1: speak to her at the scene, actually speak to her. Okay.
13:36
Speaker 1: You know what's interesting, I wonder if police know of
13:39
Speaker 1: many passers by that saw her that morning. I'm just
13:42
Speaker 1: trying to pinpoint that timeline. No, No, did anybody come
13:46
Speaker 1: forward and say they saw her. No, one came forward. Immediately.
13:49
Speaker 1: There was another neighbor who came forward and said that
13:51
Speaker 1: he saw somebody who might somebody who might have matched
13:55
Speaker 1: her description a few miles up the street up on
13:58
Speaker 1: a walking kind of kind of running and ducking into
14:01
Speaker 1: the woods. But we have suspicions about that individual. That
14:05
Speaker 1: doesn't make sense that she'd be ducking in the woods.
14:08
Speaker 1: I would be waiting for a lady to come along
14:10
Speaker 1: in a car that would give me a ride. Okay,
14:13
Speaker 1: so we've got about a nineteen minute lapse there. What
14:18
Speaker 1: could have happened, Um, we know it was her, we
14:21
Speaker 1: know she was in the car. We know there was
14:24
Speaker 1: some sort of single car accident staged or not staged,
14:30
Speaker 1: and we know she left the car and was at
14:34
Speaker 1: night so nobody could really see exactly what was going on. Yeah,
14:39
Speaker 1: very dark at the scene. Okay, at some point we
14:42
Speaker 1: have a we have a witness who um, pretty much
14:46
Speaker 1: right right at the time of the accident, right around
14:48
Speaker 1: that time frame, within a few a few weeks, Um,
14:51
Speaker 1: she reported to the police that she did see the
14:54
Speaker 1: police suv with zero zero one park knows two knows
14:58
Speaker 1: with Morris car somewhere in that fifteen to nineteen minute timeframe. Um,
15:05
Speaker 1: we can pretty much narrow it down to about four minutes,
15:09
Speaker 1: four to six minutes where she she left work, was
15:13
Speaker 1: driving to her home. There's a dead zone of cell
15:19
Speaker 1: phone reception, so she she called before she left work,
15:23
Speaker 1: and she called when she got back into cell phone reception.
15:26
Speaker 1: In the meantime, she passed by the scene and saw
15:29
Speaker 1: police SUV zero zero one park knows two knows with
15:33
Speaker 1: Morris's car. However, she didn't see anybody inside the car,
15:35
Speaker 1: figured that it was probably in the process of maybe
15:40
Speaker 1: she was in the suv with the police officer. It
15:43
Speaker 1: was dark. She couldn't see any any any particular person.
15:46
Speaker 1: Who was the police officer that answered the call? Well,
15:49
Speaker 1: Cecil Smith is the first person on paper to have
15:52
Speaker 1: arrived there. But the STUV that we're talking about wasn't
15:57
Speaker 1: actually on any police report. And uh that they they
16:01
Speaker 1: say that that police suv was was in the shop
16:05
Speaker 1: at that time. How could that be? I don't know,
16:08
Speaker 1: either the witnesses wrong or they're wrong exactly. And who
16:12
Speaker 1: would have been in that suv? What cop was attached
16:16
Speaker 1: to that suv? The only person who was allowed to
16:18
Speaker 1: drive that SUV zero zero one is the chief of
16:21
Speaker 1: police and the chief of police at the time was
16:23
Speaker 1: Jeff Williams. And where was he at that time? Has
16:26
Speaker 1: he been accounted for. I don't know, as far as
16:28
Speaker 1: we know that he might have been drunk. What what wokay? What?
16:34
Speaker 1: Oh ho ho whoa whoa, whoa whoa. This is a
16:36
Speaker 1: whole new monkey when you've thrown into this. So another
16:40
Speaker 1: witness states that she sees a police suv parked, knows
16:45
Speaker 1: two knows like you're gonna jump off the car, and
16:49
Speaker 1: doesn't see anybody in Mara's car and assumes the person
16:53
Speaker 1: maur is in the suv. The police force says that
16:58
Speaker 1: suv was in the shop and that suv is attached
17:01
Speaker 1: to the Chief of Police. This is before Officer Cecil
17:06
Speaker 1: Smith X Smith gets there. Huh, I see. I don't actually,
17:12
Speaker 1: as much as I'd love to believe the conspiracy theory
17:15
Speaker 1: that the police of chief is the chief of Police
17:17
Speaker 1: is involved, the timeline really doesn't fit to me. You've
17:20
Speaker 1: only got nineteen minutes for what the chief of police
17:24
Speaker 1: to show up, kidnap her and make off with her
17:27
Speaker 1: and come up with a cover. That doesn't make sense
17:29
Speaker 1: to me. And and and Faith Westman never says in
17:33
Speaker 1: her phone call to that the police have arrived, which
17:39
Speaker 1: which would be something I would think if I was
17:41
Speaker 1: looking at a at an accident and I was on
17:43
Speaker 1: the phone with the police and I saw the police arrive,
17:46
Speaker 1: I would say, oh, the police have arrived, you know.
17:49
Speaker 1: That's how I would end the call. Um, Can I
17:51
Speaker 1: ask you another question that really precedes this this moment.
17:57
Speaker 1: What about her statements to or messages to her boss
18:02
Speaker 1: and her professors that she was leaving due to a
18:05
Speaker 1: death in the family. Are we for sure that she
18:09
Speaker 1: is the one that sent those messages or made those statements.
18:12
Speaker 1: The statements about there being a death in the family
18:15
Speaker 1: and that is why she needed to take some some
18:18
Speaker 1: time off have been proven to be false. According to
18:21
Speaker 1: the email, it did come from her email address. Well,
18:24
Speaker 1: that doesn't mean anything to me. The fact that it
18:26
Speaker 1: came from her email address. I mean, I could hack
18:29
Speaker 1: into your email address on my cell phone right now,
18:31
Speaker 1: probably what is it your d O B? I mean,
18:34
Speaker 1: come on, are your child's d o B? Or your
18:37
Speaker 1: phone number or your social I mean someone that knew
18:40
Speaker 1: her I A A boyfriend or ex boyfriend could guess
18:44
Speaker 1: her pass code and send those emails. Sure, Yeah, I'm
18:48
Speaker 1: just not in the I'm just not I've given up
18:51
Speaker 1: speculating on this a long time ago. What we know
18:53
Speaker 1: is that an email was sent from her email address. So,
18:56
Speaker 1: on the other hand, think of how far fetched that
18:58
Speaker 1: would be. An ex hacking into your email. Not far fetched,
19:04
Speaker 1: but and ex hacking into your email, plus you happen
19:09
Speaker 1: to have a fender bender, plus in nineteen minutes you disappear.
19:14
Speaker 1: All that together to me doesn't add up. Yeah, it
19:19
Speaker 1: definitely doesn't add up. Um what what the Yeah. The
19:23
Speaker 1: school of thought that Tim and I go on at
19:25
Speaker 1: this point is that with the accident she got into
19:27
Speaker 1: with her father's car, which which was a total uh.
19:30
Speaker 1: She she gets into that accident, she allegedly had boyfriend problems.
19:34
Speaker 1: He was he was away, he was um he was
19:36
Speaker 1: at West Point, Um or he was in Oklahoma at
19:40
Speaker 1: Fort Sill, And she was going through a bad stretch,
19:42
Speaker 1: and it seemed like she needed to get away. And
19:44
Speaker 1: if she were to email and and and lie about
19:47
Speaker 1: a death in the family to get some time off,
19:49
Speaker 1: to get a little extra time off, just to clear
19:51
Speaker 1: her head. That's what it seems like happened. Well, would
19:53
Speaker 1: she have gone to visit the boyfriend at West Point? Why?
19:58
Speaker 1: I think he wasn't at West Point at that time.
20:02
Speaker 1: I think she wanted to take some time to herself.
20:06
Speaker 1: I don't think it was. She had just seen him
20:07
Speaker 1: over Christmas break. I think she needed some time to
20:10
Speaker 1: be alone. Every everything she took, because everything. Every time
20:14
Speaker 1: I hear of a woman that says she wants to
20:16
Speaker 1: be alone and goes missing, a guy killed her. Okay,
20:22
Speaker 1: so let's think about this. So just because she saw
20:25
Speaker 1: him at Christmas break, this is February, if they were
20:28
Speaker 1: having problems, would she have gone there to try to
20:31
Speaker 1: work them out? Where you're saying he's not at West Point?
20:33
Speaker 1: So where was he? He was at Fort Sill in Oklahoma?
20:37
Speaker 1: So the boyfriends at Fort Sill, Oklahoma. How far of
20:40
Speaker 1: a drive would that have been? And why would she
20:42
Speaker 1: have ditched her car to do it? It's like a
20:45
Speaker 1: twenty hour drive or something like that. So what do
20:49
Speaker 1: we know about him? Has he been investigated? Yeah? He
20:53
Speaker 1: has um he was cleared a while a long time
20:57
Speaker 1: ago by police. So it's sounds like all conspiracy theories aside.
21:03
Speaker 1: She does have a finder bender and somebody picks her up.
21:07
Speaker 1: H Is that what you think? Yeah? I think we
21:11
Speaker 1: I think we both agree that that's what happened. So
21:14
Speaker 1: let's talk about her activity. Didn't she go on Google Map,
21:18
Speaker 1: map quest or something the night before. What do we
21:20
Speaker 1: know about that? Yeah, she she called for She called
21:25
Speaker 1: to potentially rent a condo in Bartlett, New Hampshire, but
21:28
Speaker 1: she also had directions to Burlington, Vermont in her car
21:33
Speaker 1: that ski season, I mean, did she take ski gear
21:37
Speaker 1: with her? What? What was in the car? She had
21:40
Speaker 1: basically like a backpack of sort of an overnight bag,
21:45
Speaker 1: maybe maybe a few It seemed like she was probably
21:47
Speaker 1: going away for a few nights based on her clothes,
21:51
Speaker 1: her cell phone, her keys, and her wallet have never
21:53
Speaker 1: been recovered. Cell phone, keys, and wallet. But was backpack
21:58
Speaker 1: still in the car? Yes? Uh? Yeah, there was sort
22:02
Speaker 1: of a duffel bag I think with um with a
22:04
Speaker 1: lot of her belongings and some alcohol as well. Was
22:07
Speaker 1: in the car still? So didn't she just go to
22:09
Speaker 1: the liquor store? Yes, she went to the liquor store
22:12
Speaker 1: before she left. So sounds to me like she was
22:15
Speaker 1: going away for a weekend, two or three days somewhere.
22:20
Speaker 1: But was she going to meet somebody? The condo she
22:24
Speaker 1: called had had two bedrooms on the condo she she
22:27
Speaker 1: attempted to rent. Um, So there's there's been lots of
22:31
Speaker 1: speculation of that over the years, but no one's ever
22:34
Speaker 1: come out and said they were supposed to be with
22:36
Speaker 1: her or well what about her cell phone? Were there
22:39
Speaker 1: any cell phone calls or emails or text to suggest
22:43
Speaker 1: she was meeting someone. There was just a mysterious ping
22:48
Speaker 1: which could have been from her cell phone or to
22:51
Speaker 1: her cell phone off of the London Dairy, New Hampshire tower,
22:54
Speaker 1: which is I think about an hour away from where
22:57
Speaker 1: she where her car was found. Um, but there's nothing
23:01
Speaker 1: after that. There's there's been no activity on her phone.
23:04
Speaker 1: Why why do you say it as a mystery paining
23:06
Speaker 1: it's it's just tough to get the cell phone records
23:09
Speaker 1: from I think it was sprint back back in two
23:14
Speaker 1: thousand four for what could have been her checking her voicemail.
23:18
Speaker 1: Maybe there's just been there's very little information, but I mean,
23:21
Speaker 1: if it pinned off that tower, that means that the
23:23
Speaker 1: cell phone was near that tower, within within that that's
23:28
Speaker 1: also strange. That's also strange because it doesn't make sense
23:31
Speaker 1: with the route she would have taken from u mass
23:33
Speaker 1: Um that that that tower in the town where where
23:37
Speaker 1: it pinned is off of a different highway than the
23:40
Speaker 1: one that she would have taken from western Massachusetts. But
23:43
Speaker 1: doesn't it make sense if someone got her in the car.
23:46
Speaker 1: I mean she's alone on the side of the road
23:48
Speaker 1: at night, so she's gone about a mile according to
23:51
Speaker 1: one motorist if they're to be believed, And she definitely
23:57
Speaker 1: leaves the scene. So she's either picked up in a
23:59
Speaker 1: car at the scene of her crash or she starts
24:02
Speaker 1: walking because she doesn't want to go into the home
24:04
Speaker 1: with this butch guy and gets picked up there. So
24:09
Speaker 1: she got picked up by somebody either on foot or
24:12
Speaker 1: at the scene. Why wouldn't it make sense for her
24:16
Speaker 1: if she's taken involuntarily, Why wouldn't it make sense for
24:19
Speaker 1: them to go in direction of the pink? Well, the
24:22
Speaker 1: pin came before the accident that came about. Probably, Yeah,
24:26
Speaker 1: that was the route from um from Massachusetts to New Hampshire. Yeah,
24:31
Speaker 1: and like Tim said, it's on it's on a different highway.
24:34
Speaker 1: If you were to leave you mass Amherst and go
24:37
Speaker 1: to New Hampshire, you'd be taking a certain highway. This
24:39
Speaker 1: was pained off of another major highway going to New Hampshire. Who,
24:43
Speaker 1: if anyone did she know in the Berkshire's um Burlington
24:48
Speaker 1: Because around midnight the night before, I mean that night,
24:52
Speaker 1: because midnight she goes missing. That day, Feb nine, she
24:55
Speaker 1: uses her personal computer PC to search map quest to
24:59
Speaker 1: get to the Shire Berkshire's or to Burlington, Vermont, both
25:03
Speaker 1: SKay areas. So did she know anyone in those areas,
25:07
Speaker 1: not that we know of. We know her sister and
25:09
Speaker 1: brother in law lived in Vermont, but they have not
25:14
Speaker 1: uh come out and said that she was planning to
25:17
Speaker 1: meet That she's brushing off her boyfriend because at one
25:20
Speaker 1: o'clock that afternoon she disappears that nine. About six and
25:23
Speaker 1: a half hours later, she writes in an email, I
25:26
Speaker 1: got your messages, but honestly I don't feel like talking
25:29
Speaker 1: to much of anyone. I promised to call today though.
25:31
Speaker 1: Did she call him? I don't believe that they actually
25:34
Speaker 1: spoke on the phone. I know that there were calls
25:36
Speaker 1: that were back and forth with checking voicemails, and she
25:40
Speaker 1: didn't actually talk to him on the phone, right tim.
25:42
Speaker 1: I don't believe that's in the phone record. I think
25:44
Speaker 1: she no. I think she called him and then he
25:46
Speaker 1: called her pretty pretty much immediately. She didn't reach him,
25:51
Speaker 1: and then he started calling her friends. It seems she
25:53
Speaker 1: was intent on going to a hotel, because she called
25:58
Speaker 1: around two oh five after or she calls or emails
26:01
Speaker 1: emails the boyfriend that afternoon at one she calls a
26:05
Speaker 1: number that gives you recorded information about booking hotels in
26:09
Speaker 1: still Vermont to eighteen. She calls the BF again and
26:15
Speaker 1: leaves a message saying they'll talk later. That was just
26:18
Speaker 1: a message in her car, clothing, textbooks, um toiletries. Her
26:25
Speaker 1: room was searched later and campus police found most of
26:28
Speaker 1: her belongings packed in boxes and art removed from the walls.
26:34
Speaker 1: There's yeah, they had there. There was a like the
26:37
Speaker 1: spring break that they had just come back from. So
26:40
Speaker 1: a lot of people have told us that it's not
26:43
Speaker 1: uncommon for everything to still be packed at that time. Huh. There,
26:48
Speaker 1: semester starts later at U mass It starts at the
26:51
Speaker 1: end of January, So that doesn't mean she was packing
26:54
Speaker 1: up to lar It could have been she just arrived
26:56
Speaker 1: a few days and on top of the boxes there
26:59
Speaker 1: was a printed email to her boyfriend talking about trouble
27:03
Speaker 1: in their relationship. Why was that printed out? Why would
27:06
Speaker 1: you print out an email? That's a great question got us.
27:10
Speaker 1: That's one of them. That's one of the mysteries of it.
27:12
Speaker 1: She was alone that afternoon close to four o'clock, because
27:15
Speaker 1: she was seen on an a t M with drawing
27:18
Speaker 1: about almost three hundred bucks. She bought about forty bucks
27:22
Speaker 1: worth of Booze Bailey's Irish cream Khalua vodka. Okay, this
27:29
Speaker 1: was she was alone, because that's caught on video, and
27:32
Speaker 1: she picked up accident report forms. I guess that was
27:36
Speaker 1: for a crash with her dad's car, that's correct. Then
27:40
Speaker 1: she leaves on interstate. She checks her voicemail at four
27:44
Speaker 1: seven and that's it. That's correct. And the time, the
27:48
Speaker 1: timing of that is is pretty accurate as far as
27:50
Speaker 1: when you lose cell phone reception. Entering into New Hampshire,
27:54
Speaker 1: entering into the White Mountain region, there was a hairpin turn.
27:57
Speaker 1: As Tim and Lance told us, she goes off the road,
28:01
Speaker 1: hits a tree. At that point, we think anyway or snowbank.
28:06
Speaker 1: Somebody comes along driving a bus and neighbor asked if
28:09
Speaker 1: she needs help. She says no. Ten minutes later, probably
28:12
Speaker 1: nineteen minutes later, police show up. She's gone. That sounds
28:17
Speaker 1: so staged to me, guys, and yeah, it does, it does.
28:23
Speaker 1: It does seem very staged. But that means that there's
28:26
Speaker 1: that means that there's somebody else involved that if it's staged.
28:30
Speaker 1: Do you mean it sounds like she staged the accident, Yeah,
28:33
Speaker 1: kind of. It does kind of sound that way, Yeah,
28:35
Speaker 1: But no one has talked about it. Her friends have
28:39
Speaker 1: supposedly talked to police, her family has supposedly talked to police.
28:45
Speaker 1: Um enough to wear there they're satisfied they weren't involved
28:49
Speaker 1: in helping her get away. And if I and I
28:51
Speaker 1: just I find it really hard to believe that she
28:53
Speaker 1: would pick that area to stage an accident. It's it's
28:57
Speaker 1: it is a it is a remote area, but it's
28:59
Speaker 1: not as remote as people think it's. It's one of
29:01
Speaker 1: the only places on Rue one twelve that has homes
29:04
Speaker 1: pretty much immediately in the vicinity she she would have
29:08
Speaker 1: she would have staged an accident directly across the street
29:11
Speaker 1: from somebody's home. And if she was planning on doing
29:13
Speaker 1: a staged accident, I just don't Yeah, you know what,
29:16
Speaker 1: you're right, why would she leave um all of her stuff,
29:20
Speaker 1: including diamond jewelry in the vehicle? Right? The things that
29:24
Speaker 1: she took with her are what I've been like calling
29:28
Speaker 1: in my own head just to make sense, like immediate things.
29:30
Speaker 1: If I'm if I think I'm coming back to some place,
29:33
Speaker 1: if I'm on a trip and I take the things
29:34
Speaker 1: that I need for a few days, but I need
29:36
Speaker 1: to take off real quick, and I plan on coming back,
29:38
Speaker 1: I'm taking keys, wallet, and cell phone, and and that's
29:42
Speaker 1: what she took locked the car, keys, wallet, and cell phone.
29:45
Speaker 1: Um have never been recovered. So it doesn't seem unless
29:49
Speaker 1: she's unless she's a criminal mastermind, it doesn't see. What
29:51
Speaker 1: about the contract or eight to eight thirty, a contractor
29:54
Speaker 1: returning home says, he said a young person moving quickly
29:59
Speaker 1: on foot on Route one twelve that was around four
30:03
Speaker 1: to five miles east of where her vehicle was discovered.
30:08
Speaker 1: Now that person wearing Jane's a coat and a light
30:11
Speaker 1: colored hood, what about that? Yeah? Do you do you
30:15
Speaker 1: want to know my real feelings on that? Or maybe
30:17
Speaker 1: let him go with it and I'll jump in. Well, yeah,
30:22
Speaker 1: I think that that account is pretty suspicious, um because
30:26
Speaker 1: he didn't tell that to police. He told that to
30:28
Speaker 1: a neighbor of his, and the neighbor told police, and
30:32
Speaker 1: then he was questioned after that, and his property was searched.
30:37
Speaker 1: Pretty good, well, pretty pretty good after he left. He
30:40
Speaker 1: actually wouldn't allow police on his property, and he was
30:44
Speaker 1: living in his trailer at the time. He was building
30:47
Speaker 1: a house on that same property. He sold his trailer,
30:50
Speaker 1: and as soon as the trailer left, his property was
30:52
Speaker 1: pulled over by police and searched. And as soon as
30:55
Speaker 1: he sold his property as house, that property was searched
30:59
Speaker 1: by police as well. Right and to both came up
31:02
Speaker 1: at both searches came up empty. Guys White a minute, though,
31:06
Speaker 1: isn't that what Mora was wearing a dark coat? James, Yeah,
31:10
Speaker 1: but that that information had been out there for for
31:13
Speaker 1: a while. He he could have known that by reading
31:15
Speaker 1: the paper he lived. He lived right across from butch Atwood.
31:18
Speaker 1: He lived within a hundred yards of the accident scene
31:21
Speaker 1: and where he put mourra is at the area where
31:26
Speaker 1: But if you think he's lying, why would he lie?
31:30
Speaker 1: I'm not sure if he had something else hide, I'm
31:33
Speaker 1: not I'm not sure why he likes why get involved
31:36
Speaker 1: at all? I think because he lived so close to
31:39
Speaker 1: the scene and he's a peculiar guy. Why do you
31:42
Speaker 1: say that? By all accounts, By all accounts, we've heard
31:46
Speaker 1: from a lot of locals in the area, and people
31:48
Speaker 1: that that knew him and know him. Um, he's very
31:51
Speaker 1: very strange, fellow. Strange in what way? What do you
31:54
Speaker 1: mean by that? Strange towards women? Um? Just kind of awkward.
32:02
Speaker 1: Can I ask you what man is not? When you
32:07
Speaker 1: say awkward? Does he have a criminal record? That's what
32:09
Speaker 1: I want to know. I don't believe so married divorced?
32:15
Speaker 1: He was married. He was divorced to children, two daughters.
32:19
Speaker 1: He has two kids, lanced him pause one moment. I
32:21
Speaker 1: don't know if you heard me earlier mentioned this, but
32:24
Speaker 1: with us today, our sponsors simply safe. We've gotten this
32:28
Speaker 1: for a lady in our neighborhood. Miss Shirley, who has
32:31
Speaker 1: been our lifelong friend, is the age of my mom.
32:34
Speaker 1: As a recent widow, she did not have an alarm system,
32:38
Speaker 1: and she's had some scary incidents just recently, and there
32:41
Speaker 1: have been some break ins in our neighborhood. And I
32:44
Speaker 1: think about her every night. You know, I don't live
32:47
Speaker 1: in Macon anymore, and I think about her being there
32:50
Speaker 1: alone without an alarm. My mom has an alarm. We
32:52
Speaker 1: have an alarm. But we got simply safe from Miss Shirley.
32:56
Speaker 1: And even I'm sleeping better, much less you know her,
33:00
Speaker 1: you get Tamperson off. Everybody simply safe dot com slash Nancy.
33:05
Speaker 1: You just can't be safe enough. That's what I think. Okay,
33:08
Speaker 1: so tell me this. Where does it stand? Now? What
33:12
Speaker 1: does the family think? The Murray family, I think they're
33:20
Speaker 1: not exactly sure what to think, but I think they
33:23
Speaker 1: think that contractor is still a pretty good suspect and
33:27
Speaker 1: as far as we know, he was and still is
33:29
Speaker 1: law enforcements real only person of interest. Now, you know,
33:33
Speaker 1: there's a theory floating around that she took off and
33:37
Speaker 1: is living in Quebec. Have you heard that theory? Yeah? Yeah,
33:42
Speaker 1: we went. We went to that Canada. Um, it's a
33:45
Speaker 1: it's with missing missing flyers and everything. It's a it's
33:50
Speaker 1: a it's a romantic theory. But the more we looked
33:53
Speaker 1: into it, the more it's just not likely that someone
33:55
Speaker 1: could cross the border. Um. The border restrictions had tightened
33:59
Speaker 1: up since since two thousand one, so to across the border.
34:03
Speaker 1: Everyone everyone uses her. Are you serious? You don't think
34:06
Speaker 1: you can cross the Canadian border. I don't think you
34:08
Speaker 1: could cross the Canadian border, get a job, and remain
34:12
Speaker 1: under the radar in Canada for thirteen years now, I
34:15
Speaker 1: don't think you could get a job stand to the
34:17
Speaker 1: radar that. I think you can easily get across the border.
34:20
Speaker 1: But what why was she asked to leave West Point?
34:26
Speaker 1: She shop? Yeah, she wasn't asked to still some makeup
34:32
Speaker 1: from from a gift shop. Guys, I'm sorry. I know
34:35
Speaker 1: shoplifting is wrong. I know that, but I'm so used
34:39
Speaker 1: to prosecuting you know, murderers, rape s, aggravated assaults, armed robberies, torture,
34:44
Speaker 1: dope dealers. That a shoplifting like a just I'm not
34:48
Speaker 1: happy about it. But so I know that broke her
34:52
Speaker 1: father's heart by all accounts correct. Yeah, I think it's
34:55
Speaker 1: safe to say that he wasn't um wasn't pleased with that.
34:58
Speaker 1: But there are some some theories out there that she
35:02
Speaker 1: might have wanted to get caught. She might not have
35:04
Speaker 1: wanted to be there, and that was a way of
35:06
Speaker 1: her rebelling against it and and leaving. I know that
35:11
Speaker 1: the father was upset about her crushing the car. Do
35:14
Speaker 1: we know anything else about that other than what he said,
35:17
Speaker 1: which is he was upset, but it was the way
35:20
Speaker 1: any parent would be upset. And they had talked about
35:23
Speaker 1: it the next day and told her that, um, you know,
35:26
Speaker 1: they discussed getting the proper insurance paperwork which she had
35:29
Speaker 1: on her that we know, um, and they were going
35:32
Speaker 1: to they were going to take care of it. It really,
35:35
Speaker 1: it really doesn't seem like anything more, according to the family,
35:38
Speaker 1: than she got into the accident. The family, the father
35:41
Speaker 1: was upset, but they were figuring out a way to
35:44
Speaker 1: fix it. So they have a big blowout the night
35:47
Speaker 1: before over his crash car. The next day she crashes
35:51
Speaker 1: her car and leaves never seen again. I'm not we're
35:55
Speaker 1: not entirely sure that they had like a big blowout.
35:57
Speaker 1: That's that's been put there, that's been put online, and
36:00
Speaker 1: that's that's something that no one can tell us for sure.
36:03
Speaker 1: They probably got an argument, I'm guessing, but that's just
36:07
Speaker 1: I guess. I'm just you know, trying to trying to
36:09
Speaker 1: not make it into something that it probably you know,
36:11
Speaker 1: might you might be right, you might be right. But
36:14
Speaker 1: the timing they have the argument over her totaling his car,
36:18
Speaker 1: and the next day she disappears for good. Is that right? Yes? Yes,
36:23
Speaker 1: Because the accident, that accident happened Saturday into Sunday, you know,
36:26
Speaker 1: early morning, and then Sunday they discussed it and then yeah,
36:30
Speaker 1: that's correct. Boy, that cousin really thinks she's living in
36:34
Speaker 1: Quebec and just took off and left and never came back.
36:37
Speaker 1: That she stayed the accident, went down the street, met
36:39
Speaker 1: her boyfriend and he picked her up her new boyfriend.
36:42
Speaker 1: That that could be. That could be the case. But
36:44
Speaker 1: from everything we've looked into on on Mora, she wasn't
36:47
Speaker 1: a perfect young woman, but she got along with her
36:50
Speaker 1: her dad. Her dad and her were buddies. They they
36:52
Speaker 1: went on camping trips, they hiked. They didn't have, as
36:56
Speaker 1: far as we know, a dysfunctional relationship. And it just
37:00
Speaker 1: doesn't seem like it's in her character. From what we've
37:02
Speaker 1: looked into, it doesn't seem like it's in her character
37:04
Speaker 1: to um to to disappear from him for thirteen years
37:07
Speaker 1: and put him through this. Well. Yeah, that's the confusing
37:10
Speaker 1: thing is what what was happening in her life that
37:12
Speaker 1: was so big that would make her want to run
37:13
Speaker 1: away from We've never found anything for thirteen plus years, guys.
37:17
Speaker 1: Let's put the tip line out there for anyone having information.
37:20
Speaker 1: Ohmura Murray, tim Lance, do you have that number for me? Yes?
37:23
Speaker 1: The new Hampshire State Police number is six oh three
37:26
Speaker 1: to two three three eight six zero. Yes, that is
37:30
Speaker 1: the best thing to do if you have any information
37:32
Speaker 1: on Mora is to call the state Police. I know
37:35
Speaker 1: the first instinct is to contact Tim and I, but
37:38
Speaker 1: we turn around and we uh, we contact the proper
37:41
Speaker 1: law enforcement guys. The search for more Murray goes on.
37:44
Speaker 1: Nancy Grace with Crime Stories, signing off goodbye friend.