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Start By Believing with Laura Reagan, LCSW-C · The Trauma Therapist

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Speaker 1: Trauma Theverist podcast. Plus listeners can listen to episodes early
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Speaker 1: and ad free right now. Become a Plus listener by
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Speaker 1: going to Apple Podcasts, searching for the Trauma Theverist podcast
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Speaker 1: and signing up today. Welcome to the Trauma Nevers Podcast,
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Speaker 1: a show about the incredible people dedicated to helping those
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Speaker 1: who experienced trauma. My name is got macpherson, and my
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Speaker 1: mission is to raise awareness of trauma and to inspire
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Speaker 1: each of us to help those around us. You ready, Clara?
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Speaker 2: Sorry?
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Speaker 1: Guy? All right? So five four three two one, our folks,
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Speaker 1: welcome back to the podcast. Very excited to have my
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Speaker 1: guest today, Laura Reagan. Laura, welcome, Thank you.
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Speaker 2: I'm so happy to be back here.
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Speaker 1: Awesome. So. Laura is a holistically and sematically oriented trauma
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Speaker 1: focused psychotherapist as well as board approved and registered clinical
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Speaker 1: social work super in Maryland. She's a speaker, trauma trainer,
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Speaker 1: and owner of the Baltimore and Aapolis Center for Intricative Healing,
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Speaker 1: where she and her associates offer intricative trauma and attachment
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Speaker 1: focused psychotherapy to teens and adults. In twenty twenty one,
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Speaker 1: Laura founded the Trauma Therapist Network, a website resource designed
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Speaker 1: to help people learn about trauma and find therapy. In addition,
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Speaker 1: she hosts two podcasts, Therapy Chat, her most well known,
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Speaker 1: which features interviews with trauma therapists, authors and researchers, and
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Speaker 1: her second, Trauma Chat, which offers brief episodes that educate
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Speaker 1: both professionals and the general public about trauma and its
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Speaker 1: impact on our lives. We'll be talking about all that
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Speaker 1: and then stuff and more in depth. Laura, Welcome to
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Speaker 1: the podcast.
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Speaker 2: Thank you guys, so good to be with you.
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Speaker 1: So the first thing I've got to say after reading
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Speaker 1: that bio it is, damn girl, you're busy.
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Speaker 2: You're right, that's very true. Oh my gosh. Well yeah,
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Speaker 2: it's a lot actually, but you know, over time it's
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Speaker 2: gotten the podcast as you probably have noticed for yourself,
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Speaker 2: it just sort of begins to roll along. It just
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Speaker 2: has its own rhythm, right. So that's just a you know,
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Speaker 2: a thing that's always been like a side thing. But
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Speaker 2: it takes a lot of my attention, but it's it's
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Speaker 2: so fun and enriching. It's kind of a creative outlet
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Speaker 2: at the same time. But yeah, there have been times
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Speaker 2: where I've had to pull back on seeing clients because
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Speaker 2: I had so much going on. So you know, it's
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Speaker 2: sort of this like what needs your attention the most
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Speaker 2: at a given time and just continuing to flow with
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Speaker 2: it and try to be flexible, you know.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, So we'll get into that a little bit more later,
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Speaker 1: but let's start here with shore with the listeners. Where
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Speaker 1: you're from originally and where you are currently.
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Speaker 2: Okay, I'm from Virginia in the US, and I currently
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Speaker 2: live in the state of Maryland, which is right next
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Speaker 2: to Virginia, but not as much similar as you might think,
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Speaker 2: not as I not as much as I expected anyway.
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Speaker 1: All right, all right, so I want to I want to.
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Speaker 1: I mean, you got a lot going on here, and
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Speaker 1: you're going to be uh kind of guest guesting guest
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Speaker 1: presenter with the Wisdom Circle, and we're going to talk
3:20
Speaker 1: about that too, but I want to kind of segue
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Speaker 1: into that and kind of kind of uncover and explore
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Speaker 1: how the hell all this started for you? How did
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Speaker 1: you get into this field and trauma specifically too.
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Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, you know, it's funny. I really feel like
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Speaker 2: I stumbled into it, but I also feel like we
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Speaker 2: find what we need to be doing, and it kind
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Speaker 2: of finds us. I stumbled so randomly, literally into volunteering
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Speaker 2: in a sexual assault crisis center when I was in
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Speaker 2: my early thirties. I was going back to school to
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Speaker 2: finish my undergrad and intended to go get my master's
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Speaker 2: and become a therapist. And I needed some kind of
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Speaker 2: internship or some kind of experience in the field because
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Speaker 2: I had been working in the legal field before that.
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Speaker 2: And so I passed by this ywcasaw a sign that
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Speaker 2: said volunteers wanted, and I assumed it would be some
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Speaker 2: kind of domestic violence related work. I didn't know that
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Speaker 2: sexual violence had services. I knew about domestic violence services
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Speaker 2: like kind of So when I contacted them about volunteering,
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Speaker 2: they said, well, this is for our twenty four hour
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Speaker 2: rape crisis hotline and hospital accompaniment program. Is that something
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Speaker 2: you're interested in? I was like, ooh, like that sounds hard,
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Speaker 2: you know, as coming off the street, I had no
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Speaker 2: idea what to expect, and they said, don't worry, we'll
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Speaker 2: train you, and we went through this very comprehensive forty
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Speaker 2: hour training that I was It's so fortunate this is
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Speaker 2: back in two thousand and two, but I was trained
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Speaker 2: in understanding sexual violence as a you know, societal problem,
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Speaker 2: not an individual issue, and also that it's a trauma
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Speaker 2: and it can impact people over their whole lives. So
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Speaker 2: we learned about working with adult survivors of childhood sexual
5:21
Speaker 2: abuse as well as people who had just recently been
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Speaker 2: sexually assaulted or raped. And I was just madly passionate
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Speaker 2: about the work, so I couldn't relate to it at all, like,
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Speaker 2: I'm not a survivor. I have no idea why I
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Speaker 2: you know, I'm just a brave person who really wants
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Speaker 2: to do this work. But really I was a survivor.
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Speaker 2: I didn't even realize it. So it was one of
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Speaker 2: those things where, you know, sitting with people and we
5:55
Speaker 2: would do short term crisis counseling too. So I started
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Speaker 2: as a volunteer and then started working there in two
6:01
Speaker 2: thousand and three, and I had a small caseload of
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Speaker 2: about I mean it was about fifteen people and we
6:06
Speaker 2: would meet for short term counseling for like six to
6:10
Speaker 2: twelve months, So I mean that was I thought of
6:13
Speaker 2: that as short term, but you know, nowadays that's that's
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Speaker 2: long term compared to what a lot of models allow.
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Speaker 2: But so yeah, even though I was sitting with people
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Speaker 2: who had similar stories to my story of victimization. I
6:30
Speaker 2: didn't relate to it at all because of the valuable skill,
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Speaker 2: the adaptation of dissociation that prevents us from, you know,
6:40
Speaker 2: realizing how we've been impacted by any kind of trauma. So,
6:46
Speaker 2: you know, I remember I went to counseling at that
6:49
Speaker 2: time with the intention of becoming a therapist, I thought,
6:53
Speaker 2: and I was told in school, you need to start
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Speaker 2: your own counseling so you can find out, you know,
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Speaker 2: what your issues are with them before you go out
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Speaker 2: there and try to work with other people, which I
7:03
Speaker 2: thought was great advice. But when I went into the counseling,
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Speaker 2: I had zero idea of what might be impacting me whatsoever.
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Speaker 2: So even though I understood about trauma, I didn't relate
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Speaker 2: to the idea that I was a trauma survivor myself
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Speaker 2: at all.
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Speaker 1: Wow, let me interject per second. First of all, very intense.
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Speaker 1: I mean to walk into a situation like that when
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Speaker 1: you said you were walking by the YMCA and saw volunteering,
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Speaker 1: I thought you were going to say, well, I thought
7:30
Speaker 1: it was for like the basketball court or something like that.
7:33
Speaker 1: But to go into a situation like that and to
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Speaker 1: volunteer for a situation like that, and the way you
7:41
Speaker 1: described it, you were like, all that's intense, and you
7:45
Speaker 1: weren't aware, as you said, of your own survivor hood
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Speaker 1: or past experience consciously, right, Yeah, how did you deal
7:57
Speaker 1: with that in the moment when because that's I'm so heavy.
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Speaker 2: Yeah it is. Well, you know, it's interesting because if
8:09
Speaker 2: I were to look back on my younger self. Now
8:11
Speaker 2: this is more than twenty years ago we're talking about,
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Speaker 2: So if I were to look back on that younger me,
8:18
Speaker 2: I thought I was fine in life, Like I thought,
8:22
Speaker 2: I'm fine, you know what I mean. But I also
8:26
Speaker 2: didn't love myself. I didn't you know, I hated my body.
8:30
Speaker 2: I had all of these classic developmental trauma symptoms that
8:39
Speaker 2: you know are also common experiences of women too in
8:45
Speaker 2: our culture. So you know, I just thought I just
8:49
Speaker 2: I didn't think I didn't love myself because I was traumatized.
8:54
Speaker 2: I thought I didn't love myself because I didn't. I
8:57
Speaker 2: wasn't lovable, you know, I thought I I just I
9:00
Speaker 2: deserved to be mean to myself because I thought I
9:03
Speaker 2: was like a bad person. So when I would go
9:08
Speaker 2: and meet with people, you know, we would be on call,
9:12
Speaker 2: so we would get calls in the middle of the
9:13
Speaker 2: night to go meet someone at the clinic for the
9:16
Speaker 2: forensic exam. And you know, so it felt very noble,
9:21
Speaker 2: It felt very important, and I knew, you know, you
9:27
Speaker 2: would feel the impact in the moment of how helpful
9:30
Speaker 2: it was for that person to have an advocate with them,
9:33
Speaker 2: somebody who could speak up on their behalf, help them
9:36
Speaker 2: feel more empowered through the process, explain what was going on,
9:41
Speaker 2: Educate them about crisis well, give them crisis intervention, counseling,
9:45
Speaker 2: and educate them about trauma reactions. You know, short term
9:48
Speaker 2: and long term, and when to know you need help,
9:51
Speaker 2: you know when to get counseling versus these are just
9:54
Speaker 2: the common symptoms. If you rest and X y Z
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Speaker 2: might feel better in a few days or whatever, So
10:01
Speaker 2: you know, in the short term at least. So it
10:06
Speaker 2: felt so meaningful and it felt so valuable. It made
10:08
Speaker 2: me feel really good about myself. So it was only
10:12
Speaker 2: in certain situations over the next three years that I
10:17
Speaker 2: worked there. I worked there for almost four years. It
10:21
Speaker 2: was only in certain situations where it would be so
10:24
Speaker 2: close to home in some way that I would I
10:31
Speaker 2: would struggle mainly with like wanting to work more when
10:37
Speaker 2: I was exhausted, so sort of like, no, I have
10:40
Speaker 2: to do more, I have to do more, I can't
10:42
Speaker 2: take time off, and feelings like that. So again it
10:45
Speaker 2: just looked like typical like vicarious trauma reaction or burnout,
10:51
Speaker 2: you know, going towards burnout. So I had a supportive
10:54
Speaker 2: supervisor who would just when when people were at that point,
10:58
Speaker 2: which everybody did get to that point at some point
11:02
Speaker 2: multiple times throughout our times working there, she would just
11:05
Speaker 2: encourage us to take time off. She would always support
11:08
Speaker 2: us in doing a lot of self care. So it
11:10
Speaker 2: really wasn't until many, many years later that I recognized
11:15
Speaker 2: my sexual trauma history. I had begun to piece together
11:20
Speaker 2: that I was traumatized from my childhood in general and
11:24
Speaker 2: a lot of attachment wounds, but I didn't really realize
11:27
Speaker 2: about the sexual trauma until about maybe maybe five or
11:31
Speaker 2: six years ago. Not that it was like a memory
11:33
Speaker 2: that came flooding back. It was experiences that I already
11:36
Speaker 2: knew about. I remembered everything. It was just I didn't
11:40
Speaker 2: recognize that those experiences to be sexual assault, sexual violence.
11:47
Speaker 2: I looked at them as just bad relationships and things
11:51
Speaker 2: like that. So that's one of the reasons why I
11:55
Speaker 2: really love helping individuals anybody who's in the general public,
12:03
Speaker 2: and therapists learn more about practicing effectively with trauma or
12:09
Speaker 2: about how trauma shows up in our lives for general public,
12:12
Speaker 2: because even when you know about trauma, you may not
12:17
Speaker 2: know you may not see yourself and that, you know
12:21
Speaker 2: what I mean. It's like suddenly you go, oh my gosh,
12:25
Speaker 2: all this stuff that was terrible, you know, and until
12:30
Speaker 2: then you're like, my childhood was pretty good.
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Speaker 1: That is so true. You don't want to or an't
12:38
Speaker 1: identify yourself as having experienced something like that. What an
12:43
Speaker 1: incredible story. So was that so at this point you
12:48
Speaker 1: were on route to become a therapist.
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Speaker 2: When I recognized my own optimization. Yeah, I've been a therapist,
12:58
Speaker 2: you know. I graduated from grad school in too and ten,
13:00
Speaker 2: so I've been a therapist for a while now. But yeah,
13:03
Speaker 2: this was maybe like six or seven years ago. So
13:06
Speaker 2: as while I've been working with trauma survivors of sexual trauma,
13:11
Speaker 2: specializing in this work, you know, I would say, well,
13:14
Speaker 2: I started thinking to myself, well, I know those things happen,
13:17
Speaker 2: but it just doesn't have a. I mean, it fits
13:20
Speaker 2: the definition of sexual violence, but it doesn't have a
13:22
Speaker 2: charge for me. So I guess it just wasn't traumatizing
13:26
Speaker 2: for me. You know. That was kind of where I
13:28
Speaker 2: was getting to until certain point. I'm like, why do
13:33
Speaker 2: I keep having these, you know, interpersonal problems in certain situations.
13:38
Speaker 2: It was kind of like problems with setting boundaries and
13:40
Speaker 2: saying no people pleasing stuff. And I started to realize
13:46
Speaker 2: there was something I couldn't really get to in my
13:50
Speaker 2: talk therapy, and it was actually through brain spotting. Well,
13:55
Speaker 2: for it started with some somatic therapy and kind of
13:58
Speaker 2: led me recognizing that I was reacting to something that
14:05
Speaker 2: I couldn't reach, and I realized that there was like
14:08
Speaker 2: a freeze response in my system that I wasn't you know,
14:13
Speaker 2: you can't get there through just talking. And so through
14:18
Speaker 2: the first brain spotting experience I had, which was like
14:21
Speaker 2: a really long two hour brain spotting session, I kind
14:27
Speaker 2: of unlocked what was frozen there and it shifted and
14:31
Speaker 2: then it all kind of began to fall into place,
14:34
Speaker 2: like of course, wow.
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Speaker 1: So it was the brain spot You mentioned somatic therapy
14:39
Speaker 1: as well. Had you tried other modalities and other treatments?
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Speaker 1: For yourself.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, I had the therapists that I go to now
14:49
Speaker 2: I've been working with since twenty sixteen, so that's eight
14:54
Speaker 2: years in November. Wow, feels like that anniversary just comes
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Speaker 2: around so fast. Every year. I'm like, Wow, another year. Okay,
15:02
Speaker 2: you're going We're doing it, We're getting there. But yeah,
15:06
Speaker 2: So that was the first therapist that I worked with
15:10
Speaker 2: who was both attachment focus and used somatic work, and
15:16
Speaker 2: the method he used was focusing. So it's a very
15:21
Speaker 2: you know, I would say, kind of light somatic method
15:25
Speaker 2: compared to things like somatic experiencing sensory motor psychotherapy. But
15:30
Speaker 2: I'm also trained in sensory motor I've done levels one
15:34
Speaker 2: and two. So I didn't do Level two until twenty nineteen,
15:38
Speaker 2: but I did Level one in twenty fifteen, and you know,
15:45
Speaker 2: all of that, the practice that you do in that work,
15:49
Speaker 2: and just becoming more attuned to my my inner world
15:55
Speaker 2: through somatic work, both as a practitioner and continuing to
15:59
Speaker 2: work with like I do a lot of things. I
16:01
Speaker 2: do energy work with a coach, and I have my
16:03
Speaker 2: weekly therapy with my therapist, and then I do you know,
16:09
Speaker 2: I go to retreats and I mean I just do
16:11
Speaker 2: as much as I can for healing, because you know,
16:13
Speaker 2: the work we do, it's so intense and there's a
16:16
Speaker 2: lot to move. You have to keep it, keep it moving.
16:21
Speaker 2: I feel so yeah, yeah, yeah, all yeah. But it
16:25
Speaker 2: was actually like a consultation with somebody who was trained
16:28
Speaker 2: in sensor emotor that helped me recognize what was stuck.
16:33
Speaker 2: And then I went from there to brainspotting.
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Speaker 1: Wow. Yeah, very interesting, very cool. So let's jump you
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Speaker 1: in twenty twenty one. You founded the Trauma Therapist Network.
16:45
Speaker 1: Talk to us about that. What is it?
16:47
Speaker 2: Okay? So I started the Trauma Therapist Network website because
16:53
Speaker 2: I was for years I've been complaining that it's really
16:56
Speaker 2: hard to find trauma therapists and to find out how
16:59
Speaker 2: they practice. To you know, trauma is not it's like
17:05
Speaker 2: an umbrella term. It's a very broad term, and there's
17:08
Speaker 2: so many different ways of practicing. As we just briefly discussed,
17:12
Speaker 2: there's so many different types of trauma and different types
17:16
Speaker 2: of attachment wounds, and how they show up is all different.
17:20
Speaker 2: So what people specialize in is significant to the person
17:25
Speaker 2: who's searching. So I was frustrated that there was really
17:29
Speaker 2: no way to find a trauma therapist that was specific
17:32
Speaker 2: to their way of practicing and what kind of training
17:36
Speaker 2: do they have, And then I decided to create it.
17:41
Speaker 2: So I started the website where you can search for
17:46
Speaker 2: a therapists and it's very specific with you know, what
17:49
Speaker 2: they do, what they're trained in, what approach they use.
17:54
Speaker 2: But then I realized too that just like me, even
17:58
Speaker 2: me with a lot of experience in trauma, not recognizing
18:01
Speaker 2: myself as a trauma survivor. Although every time I've ever
18:04
Speaker 2: looked for therapy, I've always looked for trauma focused therapy
18:07
Speaker 2: because I feel like all therapy should be trauma focused.
18:10
Speaker 2: But people don't recognize themselves as trauma survivors. And I
18:15
Speaker 2: know for myself with my clients, you know, oftentimes we
18:20
Speaker 2: spend years just trying to help them actually recognize and
18:29
Speaker 2: accept that the way they feel is not because there's
18:32
Speaker 2: something wrong with their brain, but it's because of their experiences,
18:37
Speaker 2: usually during childhood. So I needed the website to also
18:43
Speaker 2: be educational for people so they can learn about, Yeah,
18:48
Speaker 2: trauma is not what you think it is. It shows
18:50
Speaker 2: up in ways that you might not expect. A lot
18:53
Speaker 2: of the common mental health symptoms that people have are
18:55
Speaker 2: actually because of childhood trauma, traumatic experiences we have as adults.
19:02
Speaker 2: I mean, just as an example, like it's twenty twenty four,
19:07
Speaker 2: we all went through a worldwide pandemic. You know, millions
19:11
Speaker 2: of people died, Everybody was terrified, everything changed in instant.
19:15
Speaker 2: Nobody knew what was going on or what to do.
19:18
Speaker 2: That's a collective trauma that everyone experienced. Not everyone had
19:24
Speaker 2: the same reaction to it, but that happened. And now
19:29
Speaker 2: you see so many people newly identifying that they have ADHD,
19:38
Speaker 2: and I'm like, hmm, I'm not saying that people don't
19:43
Speaker 2: have ADHD, but I'm curious, you know, if these symptoms
19:48
Speaker 2: might actually be related to this worldwide traumatic experience that
19:51
Speaker 2: we all had. But it's just the last thing that
19:54
Speaker 2: people expect to be the cause of the way they feel,
19:58
Speaker 2: because we all think. People think that trauma is this
20:02
Speaker 2: like big bad thing that happens to other people and
20:06
Speaker 2: not to us. So I wanted people to be able
20:09
Speaker 2: to recognize, oh, this is Yes, I have had those
20:13
Speaker 2: experiences and I feel this way. So maybe what I
20:17
Speaker 2: need is a trauma therapist too, and maybe I need
20:19
Speaker 2: to learn, you know, what type of therapy might be
20:22
Speaker 2: helpful for me. So that's why I created both trauma
20:25
Speaker 2: Chat and the blog articles on Trauma Therapist Network.
20:31
Speaker 1: So the Trauma Therapist network is that Trauma Therapist Network
20:34
Speaker 1: dot com. So so how does it work. So someone
20:38
Speaker 1: is looking for a therapist, they go to the site
20:40
Speaker 1: and they do what.
20:43
Speaker 2: So anybody who wants to learn about trauma can go
20:45
Speaker 2: to Trauma Therapistnetwork dot com and on the home page
20:50
Speaker 2: you'll see all the different things find a therapist, the podcasts,
20:55
Speaker 2: and their blog is there. But if people are just
21:00
Speaker 2: wanting to search for trauma therapy, they can go to
21:02
Speaker 2: find Trauma Therapy dot com. I figured that was easier
21:06
Speaker 2: just to have and it still goes to the main site.
21:08
Speaker 2: So find Trauma Therapy dot com is the site for searching.
21:12
Speaker 2: And additionally, when I started the website in twenty twenty
21:19
Speaker 2: one and I wanted a therapists to join it, I
21:22
Speaker 2: set it up as a membership community where they would
21:25
Speaker 2: join for a monthly fee and that's what they get
21:28
Speaker 2: there listing there. But all the therapists I knew were like, Laura,
21:33
Speaker 2: we love you, We totally support this. It's an amazing idea,
21:36
Speaker 2: but you know what, we don't want clients to find us.
21:39
Speaker 2: We want to hide. There's way too many clients and
21:43
Speaker 2: we don't have the capacity. Were exhausted, were burned out,
21:46
Speaker 2: you know. Twenty twenty one, everybody was like going, going
21:49
Speaker 2: and going, going, going, and hit a point where people
21:52
Speaker 2: were like, I'm thinking of closing down my practice. I'm
21:55
Speaker 2: thinking of you know, I don't want to take any
21:57
Speaker 2: more clients. So I realized, then, wow, therapists are like
22:03
Speaker 2: really overburdened right now. I knew I was, but of
22:06
Speaker 2: course I thought it was just me.
22:07
Speaker 1: So I.
22:10
Speaker 2: Created weekly meetings in the membership instead of just having
22:15
Speaker 2: a listing. Now it includes for four calls a month
22:20
Speaker 2: that one's focused on self care, ones for case consultation,
22:24
Speaker 2: one is for Q and a networking, and then one
22:28
Speaker 2: is some kind of workshop.
22:29
Speaker 1: So does that find Trauma Therapy dot com.
22:32
Speaker 2: Well, that's a trauma therapist network dot com. So that's
22:35
Speaker 2: for therapists only. Yeah, And find Trauma Therapy dot Com
22:40
Speaker 2: is to just for searching for a trauma therapist and
22:42
Speaker 2: it goes to the directory page where people can just
22:45
Speaker 2: put in the city and state or just the state,
22:49
Speaker 2: and then you know, change the search parameters to be
22:53
Speaker 2: closer fark. It's actually international, but we only have one
22:58
Speaker 2: in Canada and one in England so far.
23:01
Speaker 1: Okay, we'll have all these linked up here at the
23:03
Speaker 1: show notes page at the Trauma thes podcast dot com.
23:05
Speaker 1: All right, so let's talk about the Wisdom Circle. And
23:11
Speaker 1: I should say that Academy of Therapy Wisdom is a
23:14
Speaker 1: sponsor for this podcast, but I love them and I
23:17
Speaker 1: want to promote them, and you're going to be offering
23:21
Speaker 1: a workshop coming up. Can talk to us about that.
23:26
Speaker 2: Okay. I'm super excited about this, and I love the
23:28
Speaker 2: Academy of Therapy Wisdom too. There are good people, and
23:32
Speaker 2: I love the trainings they bring. So the Wisdom Circles
23:35
Speaker 2: are two workshops a month, and I understand you do
23:40
Speaker 2: like an integration call too, so I don't even know
23:42
Speaker 2: what else people get when they when they sign up, but.
23:45
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's pretty phenomenal actually, but go ahead.
23:50
Speaker 2: About you okay. So my two workshops are both about
23:57
Speaker 2: doing therapy with survivors of sexual trauma. So basically, the
24:02
Speaker 2: first one is going to be about the issue of
24:05
Speaker 2: sexual trauma, sexual violence and how to work with survivors
24:11
Speaker 2: whether their situation was recent or long time ago. And
24:16
Speaker 2: then The second one will be more in depth about
24:19
Speaker 2: working with people who are adult survivors of childhood sexual trauma.
24:23
Speaker 2: Because the thing is, therapists who don't have training in
24:30
Speaker 2: working with survivors often have biases that they're not aware of,
24:35
Speaker 2: and they unintentionally say and do things that make the
24:44
Speaker 2: client feel unsafe, and oftentimes they end therapy at that point.
24:48
Speaker 1: Give us an example, simple.
24:51
Speaker 2: Example is as soon as someone says that they were
24:56
Speaker 2: Let's say someone is an ongoing client and they come
25:00
Speaker 2: on their Wednesday appointment and they say, oh, my gosh,
25:04
Speaker 2: something terrible happened over the weekend. I think I was raped.
25:08
Speaker 2: You know, I was at this party, you know whatever
25:13
Speaker 2: they think happened. And then the therapist is like, oh
25:16
Speaker 2: my god, did you report this to the police. And
25:19
Speaker 2: the person's like, well, no, I'm not sure. Well you've
25:24
Speaker 2: got to call nine on one right now. We've got
25:26
Speaker 2: to report this. You've got to report this. So it's
25:28
Speaker 2: like immediately the therapist kind of gets scared, has a reaction,
25:34
Speaker 2: and suddenly the client is like their power and control
25:38
Speaker 2: has been taken away. You know, they're overwhelmed, they don't
25:43
Speaker 2: know what to do. They're feeling like they're supposed to report,
25:46
Speaker 2: and they're not sure if they want to, and maybe
25:47
Speaker 2: they already had a bad experience with that, why when
25:51
Speaker 2: they went to the hospital. If they went so you know,
25:55
Speaker 2: there's the way we initially respond when we hear is
26:01
Speaker 2: very impactful to the person's recovery from that experience. In
26:08
Speaker 2: the same way we can have negative reactions when someone
26:11
Speaker 2: discloses past abuse as well.
26:16
Speaker 1: So instead of this react of response, And obviously you
26:23
Speaker 1: would think that the therapist is trying to help, right, yeah,
26:28
Speaker 1: suggesting they might do. Obviously each case is different.
26:31
Speaker 2: But yeah, well, you never want the first thing you do.
26:36
Speaker 2: You never want the first thing you say to be
26:39
Speaker 2: did you report it to the police, because it implies
26:42
Speaker 2: that this has to be reported to the police. So
26:44
Speaker 2: have you done it yet, or we're going to do
26:46
Speaker 2: it now, or you're going to have to do it
26:47
Speaker 2: or whatever, or I, as the therapist, might do it
26:51
Speaker 2: against your will. And basically what we need to do
26:55
Speaker 2: is just don't have a big reaction, just be there
26:59
Speaker 2: with your presence, listen, ask you know, a great thing
27:04
Speaker 2: to do whenever anybody's had a crisis, any kind of tragedy,
27:09
Speaker 2: any shocking traumatic experience, that's happened, you know, in a
27:13
Speaker 2: few days since since from when it happened to when
27:18
Speaker 2: you're with them is just to say, oh my gosh,
27:24
Speaker 2: I'm so sorry to hear that happen to you. How
27:27
Speaker 2: have you been doing since?
27:28
Speaker 1: Then?
27:29
Speaker 2: You know, you just want to meet them with calm,
27:33
Speaker 2: caring presence, let them know that you're listening, and you
27:39
Speaker 2: believe them. There's this whole movement. I don't know if
27:43
Speaker 2: you've ever heard about it, but this woman named Joanne
27:46
Speaker 2: Arshambow Arshamba started this, and the movement is called Start
27:53
Speaker 2: by Believing because one of the things that people who
27:59
Speaker 2: experience sexual trauma often are met with when they tell
28:04
Speaker 2: someone is disbelief. So the person who says did you
28:09
Speaker 2: report to the police, they are believing. But as soon
28:12
Speaker 2: as the person says, well, I don't know if I
28:14
Speaker 2: want to report it, then the other person that therapists
28:17
Speaker 2: may begin to wonder, well, is this really true or
28:22
Speaker 2: did it happen the way they said? Or do they
28:25
Speaker 2: have some other ulterior motive here? All of that that's
28:29
Speaker 2: not for us to decide. And another thing that therapists
28:34
Speaker 2: could easily do is just to sort of they if
28:40
Speaker 2: this client has had a lot of chaos in their life.
28:44
Speaker 2: If they've had a lot of struggles, let's say substance
28:46
Speaker 2: abuse or you know, impulsive behaviors or things like that,
28:52
Speaker 2: the therapists may in their mind blame that the client
28:57
Speaker 2: for what happened, you know, like, oh, look what's happened
29:00
Speaker 2: now because of their drinking. Now this happened, and sort
29:06
Speaker 2: of looking at it as like, oh, this unfortunate thing
29:08
Speaker 2: that you caused to yourself, which isn't the case.
29:12
Speaker 1: Right.
29:13
Speaker 2: So there's a lot of ways that our biases can
29:16
Speaker 2: really creep in there and cause so much harm and
29:21
Speaker 2: mistrust in the healing process and the therapeutic relationship. For survivors,
29:27
Speaker 2: it's really important to you know, get it right. And
29:32
Speaker 2: when I say get it right, it's not about saying
29:34
Speaker 2: a specific thing. It's about giving that message I believe you,
29:39
Speaker 2: I care, you matter to me, I can help you.
29:43
Speaker 2: This isn't too much for me. You know, I'm not
29:46
Speaker 2: gonna I'm not having a rage response. I'm not having
29:50
Speaker 2: a fearful response. I'm not having a judging response. I'm
29:54
Speaker 2: just here with you. I feel the same about you
29:58
Speaker 2: as I did before this. You know, those kinds of
30:01
Speaker 2: things are really really important and.
30:04
Speaker 1: Oftentimes easier said than done. Yeah, because that reaction of
30:09
Speaker 1: oh my god, did you do this? Did you probably
30:13
Speaker 1: comes from a good place, but like you're saying, and
30:18
Speaker 1: have adverse effects and responses for the client. All right, Laura,
30:25
Speaker 1: so much to talk about. I mean, you're like this
30:27
Speaker 1: wealth of inspiration and information. I'm going to have to
30:30
Speaker 1: have you back. But what's the best way for people
30:33
Speaker 1: to learn about everything you're doing? How do they get
30:36
Speaker 1: in contact with you? Yeah?
30:38
Speaker 2: The best thing is their Trauma Therapistnetwork dot com. That's
30:42
Speaker 2: where everything I do is and there's a lot of
30:48
Speaker 2: different ways to interact with me. You know, there's the podcast,
30:51
Speaker 2: there's the memberships, there's working as a client, and you know,
30:56
Speaker 2: I'm on social media. It's all there.
31:00
Speaker 1: Thank you. We'll have this link up here at the
31:01
Speaker 1: show notes page at the Trauma Dafors podcast dot com. Awesome, Laura,
31:05
Speaker 1: thanks so much for being here.
31:06
Speaker 2: We'll be in touch and I thank you so much.
31:09
Speaker 1: Okay, all right, thank you.