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Jerm and Carl Zha Laugh about Their Trip to China · UK Column Radio

0:35
None. Carl Zha, thank you for joining
0:40
me in the Drenches. As always, my pleasure germs.
0:46
Dude, the last time we spoke we were in China.
0:50
Yes, we were. It was good times.
0:53
It was good times. Have you recovered?
0:55
Have you recovered? I, I have, it took me a while,
0:58
but I have, but I'm going back there in two weeks.
1:02
I'm actually going back to China in two weeks, wait back to my
1:07
hometown, Chongqing. So we're going to just before
1:12
the Chinese New Year, the Chinese New Year, I think it's
1:16
February 14th or something. So I'll be there just before
1:19
that. My recovery was not ready so
1:23
much the China trip but more Ethiopian Airlines flight home.
1:32
Was it really that bad? You know, it depends on it
1:39
depends on how you're coming at this, OK.
1:43
I mean, I'm home, right? So I'm safe.
1:45
I guess That's, that's OK. You know, the first prize.
1:48
But it's the process, it's the journey that that could do with
1:52
a bit of work. You make it sound like you're
1:57
packed. You're like packing the plane
2:00
with like goats and stuff. What's going on, man?
2:03
But what? Happened.
2:03
All the luggage was sitting on top of the plane, you know.
2:07
No, I'm kidding. Yeah, I know you're kidding.
2:10
Yeah. Having said that, the airport in
2:14
Addis Ababa is very impressive, and I suppose that's also
2:17
because it was built by the Chinese.
2:19
Yeah, yeah. Much of infrastructure in
2:23
Ethiopian capital is built by the Chinese, actually.
2:26
Yeah, they built the African Union building over there, I
2:29
believe. You and I spent almost a month
2:33
traveling China, and it was, for you, probably just, you know,
2:38
Wednesday. But for me, it was enlightening
2:41
and it turned a lot of what I thought I knew upside down.
2:45
Yeah, I mean, it wasn't Wednesday for me.
2:48
I actually was my first time back after six years, you know,
2:52
like I that was my first time back after COVID.
2:55
And but, but, but I, you know, we should really turn this
2:59
around because I should really be interviewing you about your
3:02
experience because I bet you know, you have more eye opening
3:06
moments in this. Well, I mean, look, coming from
3:11
Africa, everything in China is amazing.
3:15
You know, like, you know, roads and you know, stuff that works.
3:22
My ball is very low. Call although you did you did
3:26
say the the the the traffic was chaotic when we were rode our
3:31
bicycle. Was mind blowing, really.
3:33
OK, So, yeah, well, hold on, hold on.
3:36
OK. So when I arrived in Shanghai,
3:37
it was, I think it was in the evening and I remember messaging
3:42
you and you were out and about already and I was so tired and,
3:47
you know, jet lag, etcetera. And when you and I met up the
3:52
next day and we decided to attempt the bicycles around
3:56
Shanghai, I thought I was going to die.
3:59
I've never seen such bad driving.
4:04
Well, there are a lot of new drivers in China because, you
4:07
know, a lot of people, a lot of Chinese drivers, this is their
4:10
first time being a car owner, right, That they just move from
4:15
bicycles to car. And so, yeah, that's
4:18
understandable. But I for me, I've come from a
4:22
different perspective. I go from Indonesia to China.
4:25
For me, that was orderly. That was heavenly.
4:28
Like, like, like everybody is staying there.
4:31
Lame mostly. And that was pretty impressive
4:34
also. What you're saying is that there
4:36
are levels? I mean Africa is pretty chaotic
4:39
so Indonesia must be next level. Indonesia is definitely the next
4:44
level cause 'cause you know, like there's a lot of scooters
4:48
in Indonesia and they all compete with the cars and the,
4:51
the zigzag. So after I start, I, I bought a
4:55
car recently, this last year and after I started driving, I, no,
5:01
I really got me. If you thinking these Indonesian
5:03
people are very, no, they're very trustful.
5:06
They're, they're very, they really have a lot of faith that
5:10
I am a good driver, right? Because they were like cut right
5:13
in front of me at the last minute.
5:15
I'm like, whoa, that was a big test of my driving skills.
5:19
And they really have just very have a lot of trust that
5:24
everybody behind the wheels is a good driver.
5:28
The other problem, though, is at least here in South Africa, you
5:33
know where the cars are. In Shanghai, you don't.
5:38
It's too quiet. Yeah, because it's mostly
5:42
electric. There's a lot of electric cars
5:44
in Shanghai. That that is something actually
5:49
different for me as well because again, I, I came from Indonesia,
5:53
so certainly I'd go for like a very nosy, noisy, very chaotic
5:58
environment to like a relatively orderly and quiet place.
6:03
And and for me that that was a change of scenery as well.
6:06
But it just also goes to show that this apparent social credit
6:11
score that's in China doesn't apply to the drivers, clearly.
6:16
No, because we saw on many occasions those scooters just go
6:21
right, turn right illegally. We follow the red light, you
6:26
know, like more than one, one location.
6:28
Yeah. And I didn't see any of these
6:30
digital billboards with their pictures appearing on the screen
6:33
because that's what Western media says.
6:36
Then they should be. I think there should be.
6:40
They should be. In actual fact, I remember
6:43
thinking, well, when in sorry, when in Rome, do as the Romans
6:48
do and we just, we're jaywalking.
6:50
I just rode anyway. I remember just riding into
6:52
oncoming traffic because, you know, it didn't really matter at
6:54
this stage. We all got out alive, you know,
7:01
thanks to our amazing bicycling skills.
7:05
But I mean, I think, I hope like you kind of got a glimpse of
7:10
China as like this completely different civilizational space
7:16
because it's almost like a different planet compared to
7:19
like a lot of the Western countries, right?
7:22
It's completely different call. It's very much not what you
7:27
would see on social media. Yeah, and also like for because
7:33
I think they're such a that the Americans had do have a lot of
7:38
soft power. So I, I don't think people will
7:41
be as shocked as much say they go to travel to US or even
7:46
Europe, because a lot of, you know, at least we received by
7:51
osmosis what kind of Western society to expect, you know,
7:56
but, but, but China is very different because there's very
7:59
little information coming from it.
8:01
And so when you go there, you it's like you're going there
8:04
blind, you know, like, you know, I'm, I'm obviously not going
8:08
there blind, but you were. Well, I mean, Shanghai also,
8:11
just to be fair, does look like any other major city in the
8:15
world. It's just very clean and very
8:18
organized other than the traffic.
8:21
Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely. I that was actually that was the
8:25
case even I would say 20 years ago, because I remember right
8:30
after September 11th, I was in the summer of 2000 O one, I was
8:37
working Hamburg, Germany. And then I went to China just
8:42
one month after September 11th and I was in Shanghai and I was
8:46
like, wow, this street is cleaner than Hamburg.
8:50
Because in Hamburg, Germany, you have people bring their dogs
8:53
everywhere to the restaurant and there's dog poops everywhere on
8:56
the street. That wasn't the case in
8:58
Shanghai. Well, although I did when that
9:02
time in two in 2000, the time I went to Shanghai was a time when
9:05
George W Bush was coming to town.
9:07
So it's, it's possible to clean it up for him.
9:10
But you know, I already had that impression.
9:13
Shanghai was cleaner than a lot of Western cities back in 2001.
9:18
George W Bush, the US president, who said is our children
9:23
learning. Well, he has been.
9:28
His reputation has been rehabilitated now, you know,
9:32
like this is with American presidents, you know, no matter
9:36
how bad you think they are just going to the future, Fast
9:40
forward to the future, you'll realize they're going to always
9:43
convince the worst candidates. You know, like, like, like
9:46
George W Bush, they are now rehabilitating him because he's
9:53
not Trump. So here we are.
9:56
The day that we met up and decided to attempt Chinese
10:01
traffic with bicycles. The thing with the with the
10:05
system, they I don't to this day know what Chinese money looks
10:09
like because all we ever used was WeChat and Alipay.
10:14
Yeah, Most people, you know, I, I was so, so spoiled in 2019
10:20
when I went to China with all the mobile payment.
10:24
I remember, you know, I was on my way flying to Bali.
10:28
I made a stop in Hong Kong. And then I wanted to explore the
10:32
city in Hong Kong. And so I want to take the metro
10:35
from the airport and they have these coins, coins.
10:40
I'm like, what, who carries coins?
10:43
How am I going to get coins? I have to go to like a finer ATM
10:47
machine, get the cash out and then get the cash converted into
10:51
coins to use in coins slots. If it feels like I was stepping
10:55
from 21st century back to the 20th century.
10:59
I mean, that's how I fell back in 2019 and, and, and, and, and
11:03
even the time we went to China, you know, I was, I was so
11:07
confident. I know how things work.
11:10
I remember like I show you how we could take the subway, right?
11:14
The Metro. Yeah, we're using the.
11:15
Yeah, we're using the Metro. Yeah, yeah, we're using the
11:18
Metro. I was like showing.
11:19
I was like acting like the expert.
11:21
Oh, like you go to the ticketing machine and then you select your
11:25
destination and then you will tell you how much it costs.
11:28
And then you just scan with your WeChat and then you just pay the
11:32
exact amount and spit out the plastic car with that value and
11:37
you scan in. So that is the way that I knew
11:40
how it worked back in 2019. So that's how I did it when we
11:44
were there in 2025. And I was actually complaining
11:48
that it was not very intuitive because they had two machines,
11:52
one machine just show you the, the, the, the, the, the route
11:55
and, and how much it, it, it will cost.
11:58
And then you have to go to the machine next door to actually,
12:01
you know, pay. So I thought that was, that was,
12:04
yeah, exactly why. So later after our trip was
12:09
over, I went to my hometown Song Ching and I met up with a bunch
12:14
of expat friend of mine who have been living in China for like 20
12:17
years. And they saw me doing that.
12:19
And they're like to Carl, what are you doing man?
12:21
What are you doing? So he's like, give me your
12:24
phone. I give them phone.
12:25
He's like, look, go to your WeChat.
12:27
There's a mini app here called metro Click on it and then put
12:32
in this your current city, Chongqing, you will generate a
12:35
QR code And once you have that QR code, you just use that QR
12:39
code to scan yourself in and automatically deducts a month.
12:43
I was like, oh, see, I didn't know that I I would still doing
12:48
the way I was back in 2019. That's how I knew how to
12:52
navigate. But apparently China already
12:55
moved down in the last six years.
12:59
What is more stereotypical than a Chinese guy on a bicycle?
13:05
I feel like that this is the this is the image, the image
13:09
that most people have of China, you know, like the China back in
13:13
the 1970s, nineteen 80s, when the main mode of transportation
13:18
is still bicycle. But but, but it's actually
13:22
quite, quite different today, of course, because you know, like,
13:25
like I said, a lot of people are now moving into cars, which
13:29
caused whole set of new problems because, you know, they're new
13:32
drivers and there you go. Well, I'm one of the I'm one of
13:36
the new drivers, a white African riding a bicycle in China.
13:41
For the first time, yeah. One of the questions that will
13:46
obviously come up is you're in a we're in a city day of what,
13:49
26,000,000 people? There are no people in this
13:52
photograph. Well, the day we were out, there
13:56
was still some, well, we, we were there in like late
14:00
September, but it was unusually hot heat, hot heat wave hit
14:06
Shanghai because when we weren't there, like you will be drenched
14:10
just walking like 10 minutes. And it was so hot.
14:15
People are trying to stay in the shade.
14:17
You know, there's, you're not going to have many people
14:19
standing in the, in the sun in the middle of the day because,
14:23
you know, you would just pass out.
14:25
That I think that's one reason also we went at the time we, we
14:29
were like, we're tourists, man. Like people, real people in
14:33
Shanghai that have to go to work.
14:34
We were there on a weekday. We're also there on a weekday.
14:37
So there's that. On the one hand, you have this
14:41
very advanced city that Shanghai is, and then you showed me this
14:46
street. Yeah, we took some back alleys
14:52
because we're navigating by bicycles.
14:54
And this is a lot of this kind of juxtaposition in China, the
15:00
old and new. And Shanghai, obviously, you
15:04
know, he has been the wrong for more than 100 years.
15:07
You know, Shanghai was the, the city of Shanghai really came to
15:11
being back, back in like 18 sixties, you know, after the
15:17
Second Opium War. So so you know, you still have a
15:21
lot of old buildings, like a lot of these buildings you see like
15:25
the in the foreground. Those those are probably from
15:29
dates from like 19 thirties, 1940s, you know, like almost 100
15:36
years old. And of course, the the the
15:39
building in the background, those are a lot, lot newer.
15:43
I just want to at this point say call that this conversation has
15:48
been sponsored by the CCP. And President Xi, if you're
15:53
watching this, please, I'm still waiting for my check to clear in
15:58
the mail. You know, send them anytime.
16:01
I mean, we only spent a few days in Shanghai and then a real
16:06
because. So this was the funny part.
16:08
So I was in Hong Kong a few months earlier and that it is
16:13
China, but as many Chinese say, it's not really China.
16:17
Then you go to Shanghai and it's more Chinese, but the Chinese
16:22
will say, Nah, that's not really China.
16:26
Remember that. Shanghai is the most westernized
16:30
Chinese city on mainland China, right?
16:32
Of course, Hong Kong is even more Westernized because by the
16:35
virtue of being a British colony for, for for 100, more than 100
16:39
years. But yeah, there are different
16:41
levels of being Chinese, as you find out, because, you know, you
16:45
didn't understand that because you when you're in Shanghai, you
16:48
said to you everything just look very Chinese.
16:51
And I assure you there's there's different levels.
16:55
Well, I mean, I didn't really understand anything because very
16:58
few people speak English. I mean I had to use a translator
17:03
app or you? Yeah, or me.
17:07
Well, that's the thing. Because China is so large and it
17:11
has a large population. So in a way, unlike a lot of the
17:17
smaller country that cater to foreign tourists, you know, a
17:22
lot of locals didn't have to pick up English, right?
17:27
The expectations that you will make the effort try to try to
17:31
fit in, not not vice versa. And you know, like I said, China
17:35
is a whole complete different civilizational space.
17:39
You know, once you're in China, you're like, you know, a new
17:42
world. When I came back, I received a
17:46
huge amount of pushback because I didn't trash China.
17:50
I didn't say that was some some totalitarian hellhole and we
17:55
knew this was coming. I still told you when we were in
17:57
China. I said, wait, wait until I get
18:00
back and and watch and watch the the backlash.
18:04
So I also want to point out that when you and I rode around on
18:07
bicycles, we had a security guard who was taking us
18:12
everywhere and making sure that we were only looking in the
18:14
direction that he was pointing. We were completely controlled.
18:19
Yeah, our head can only like sit in One Direction.
18:22
We can't even like slight movement of the head was not
18:25
allowed, you know. Otherwise a laser will ZAP our
18:29
face to put us on the right track.
18:34
So then we went on our real trip, which was joining up with
18:40
Pepe Escobar to kind of follow his Silk Road journey and you
18:46
know, part of the documentary that was being made.
18:50
And we did a whole bunch of cities and we rent.
18:52
We went right across to the western side and we really saw a
18:57
very different side of, of China.
19:00
And firstly, the food in my opinion was better on the on the
19:05
western side. I.
19:07
Agree but but it was a lot more rural and people forget that
19:12
they when they think of China they just think of mega cities
19:15
like Shanghai. Yeah, there's, I mean, China is
19:19
huge. So there, there will be like
19:22
mega cities like Shanghai, like Beijing, like Guangzhou on the
19:26
coast. But there's plenty of other
19:29
parts of China that's not mega city.
19:32
And we actually traveled like, let's see, we spend almost like
19:37
a month, maybe like 2-3 weeks. And we drove.
19:41
I asked our driver, he said we drove 3500 square, 3500
19:48
kilometers in those two weeks. Yeah, like I, I develop butt of
19:54
iron. It still hurts.
19:55
But I, you know, I think, yeah. Well, we met up with with
20:03
obviously oppressed Uyghurs and as you can see in this
20:05
photograph, the sad thing is that there was a firing squad
20:09
waiting for these two Uyghurs after this photograph.
20:12
So may that rest in peace. Right.
20:18
Yeah. So we, we that was in Uluchi,
20:20
the capital when we first arrived.
20:24
That's the day when we met up with my Twitter follower, Luke.
20:29
He's a very nice British chap who is who is teaching English
20:35
in Urumqi. He actually got his PhD in
20:39
Shanghai. But while he was waiting for his
20:42
graduation ceremony, he was just bumming around in Xinjiang
20:45
because he loved it so much. And, you know, and apparently he
20:48
has a local girlfriend. And so he was, he didn't speak a
20:51
little bit Uyghur. So he, he was taking us to all
20:54
the, you know, the Uyghur part of the tongue to sample the
20:57
authentic Uyghur food. And then he took us to the
21:01
touristy area where all the tourists go, where you bought
21:04
some souvenir for your wife, I believe.
21:08
Yes, that was actually very that, that was a pleasant
21:13
surprise because we were there because he was, you know,
21:17
touristy place. We were, we were just traveling
21:21
through the, the, the, the itinerary our tour guide set out
21:26
for us, but these two Uyghur girl just came up to us because
21:30
you and Pepe Escobar stood out because there are very few
21:34
foreigners there. So they came up there and wanted
21:37
to practice English. And so I think Pepe actually
21:40
took that photo of me and you. And, and so we actually have a
21:45
spontaneous conversation. They're not, you know, you know,
21:49
they're, I, I, I, they're not CCP agents who are tracking, who
21:55
are tracking us, right? They're just like 8-8 year old
21:59
girls. Because there were bored, There
22:01
were not many tourists in that area.
22:03
So they were like bored at their parents shop.
22:06
So they just decided to follow us around.
22:09
But their mother got nervous about.
22:12
Us. Yeah, Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
22:14
They're holding back. Yeah.
22:17
The parents called him back after a while.
22:19
Yeah. We also traveled through the
22:25
desert and the Taktamakan desert.
22:30
It's a huge desert that very few people know about.
22:32
It's the second largest moving desert in the world if I'm
22:36
correct. Call.
22:37
Yeah, second largest moving sand desert after Sahara.
22:41
It was huge. And we, we travel right across
22:44
it. We, we drove on the highway that
22:46
went straight across the desert itself, which is pretty
22:50
impressive. We actually went inside the
22:53
desert, which I don't recommend We spend about the entire day
22:58
off the road. We.
23:00
Went to that village, we went to that, we went to that village of
23:03
like 110 people and it took us 3 hours driving through sand
23:08
dunes. Yeah, and then three hours back
23:12
through the same sand dunes. That was a rough day.
23:17
Thank goodness we had the, the, the we had what?
23:19
A Toyota. It was a Toyota Highlight.
23:21
No, no. Fortunate.
23:22
What did we have? Land Cruiser.
23:24
Land, land, land. Land Cruiser, I think, yeah.
23:27
Yeah, we weren't driving Chinese, we were driving
23:28
Japanese. That would have made the locals
23:30
feel a little bit more aggro. Well, we did see a lot of other
23:35
other people driving the Chinese tanks not, not tanks, not tanks.
23:41
The brand of SUV called tanks. Not not literal tanks, but the
23:47
but the. Tank 300.
23:48
The Tank 300. Yeah, Tank 300.
23:51
Yeah, Tank 300. There were, there were all the
23:54
one tank 300 failed to clamp climb that sand dune challenge.
23:59
We saw them trying to go up a sand dune.
24:04
You you slide backward at the last moment.
24:07
So. So yeah.
24:09
I might have a photograph of us when we were in that, in that
24:13
desert, exactly where that Tank 300 was.
24:17
But I mean, that is also an entirely different experience.
24:22
No cell phone signal at all. Yeah, that was unusual.
24:27
For China. Yeah, that was actually first
24:29
time in China, though we didn't have any cell phone signals.
24:33
So yeah, but, but, but The thing is, once we arrive at our
24:37
destination in that quote UN quote, isolated village with 100
24:42
people, we see this giant signal tower, cell phone signal tower
24:47
right there, right? Yeah.
24:50
So here's a photograph of you, Carl.
24:52
Nice. Would you mind telling us what
24:54
you were doing? No.
24:58
Did you? Did you?
25:00
Did you feel me peeing in the desert?
25:05
That's not a very. That's a.
25:06
Water. I was giving water.
25:09
No, I. One of the other fascinating
25:13
things about the drive through the desert was how they kept the
25:17
sand off the road. Yeah, Yeah.
25:21
So that was key because it's it is a moving sand desert because
25:26
the, the the wind will just blow the sand everywhere.
25:29
So in order for the road not to be buried as soon as he was
25:33
being built, they had to find a way to fix the sand on both
25:36
sides of the road. And they come up with this thing
25:39
what Pepe calls the Chinese Magic Square.
25:42
It's a, it's a, a grid made of straws and they have a series of
25:49
straw grids that just enough to block to, to kind of slow down
25:54
the sand moving in. And they also have some
25:58
shrubberies and, and, and fences as well on the either side of
26:03
the road. So that keeps the sand from
26:05
encroaching on the road itself. I mean, it's apparently very
26:08
effective because we drove through the whole thing.
26:13
This was the tank 300 that got stuck on the sand dune.
26:19
Almost. It's so close.
26:20
He almost made it, but at the last moment it's just started.
26:25
He slid back. Yeah, he slid back.
26:28
That is a great car. By the way.
26:29
I nearly bought a Tank 300. I'm so impressed with it.
26:33
But I did buy a Chinese car, but not.
26:35
But not the tank. Oh.
26:37
What did you buy? Have you heard of Jetwa?
26:42
No, I have not. Well, that's what I got.
26:46
Great vehicle. It's owned by the Cherry Group,
26:49
which is one of the competitors to GW, Yeah.
26:52
Yeah, Cherry is pretty good. It's a pretty good brand.
26:54
Yeah, you're doing good. But that I remember how driving
27:00
through that desert really, really got to us.
27:03
By the end of the day, we were like, if we can just get onto
27:06
Tar Rd. I remember you were you were
27:09
just, you were taking a serious knock in the car.
27:11
I remember. That was rough man.
27:15
I almost got seasick. I also got motion sickness.
27:18
It's like I think one hour of off roading in sand dune will be
27:24
fun. It will be fun.
27:26
It was fun the first hour, but after that I was just trying to.
27:30
Six hours to get a bit much. I just tried to survive.
27:34
After that, I was just trying to survive, yeah.
27:38
But that was us driving to that, to that village of 100 people.
27:44
I mean, it's natural. We're.
27:46
Driving on a dried we're driving on a dry lake bed, so it was
27:51
relatively flat instead of us going up and down the sand
27:55
dunes. And you know that that actually
27:58
was nice shy. It looks like a car commercial.
28:01
You know this. That was a literal and free
28:04
endorsement for Toyota right there.
28:09
There was a funny moment. I remember I've got the photo
28:12
here when we were when, when we stopped in the desert to to take
28:16
a photo, you and me. And just before this photograph,
28:22
I, I was, I was standing barefoot and I told you call be
28:25
a man, take off your shoes. And I couldn't stand in that
28:30
sand for for more than 10 seconds.
28:32
I had to run back to the car. It was way.
28:37
Too hot. It can get pretty hot.
28:40
Like people fry eggs on those sand, you know, in the
28:44
summertime. The locals think that actually
28:46
one of the that's what they sell the tourists, you know, the sand
28:50
fry eggs. It just it just like eggs, they
28:53
put in the sand for like 30 minutes and it's done.
28:59
You were talking about buying my wife something and what I bought
29:03
for her was this. I think we were in Kashgar.
29:08
Yes, yes, we were in Kashkar. So what's the history of Kashkar
29:14
very quickly, and why do these dresses matter?
29:17
Oh, so these are actually the it's made from the type of silk
29:22
that's with a traditional pattern local to Xinjiang area.
29:26
It's called Atlas silk. And so they're they're pretty
29:31
famous. I mean, at least in China, that
29:34
like this is very characteristic of the Uyghur silk patterning.
29:40
It's it's a type of tie dying process.
29:43
They use like natural herbs to to, to to bring out the color.
29:48
We we went to the factory, you know, where they have the whole
29:51
silk production from cocoon to actually make weaving them into,
29:57
into clothes. Yeah.
29:59
So they're, they're handmade and it's pretty impressive, like.
30:03
Yeah, I'm just handmade. Yeah, yeah.
30:06
I mean, there you can see they're literally making it by
30:09
hand. Yeah.
30:12
And you can see another piece of fabric hanging on the wall that
30:16
is a pattern that's just like the local traditional Uyghur
30:19
silk pattern. So the, the, when the silk
30:24
travel W, you know, the Xinjiang was the first stop.
30:28
You know that that's there's, there's actually a, a myth about
30:32
the, the whole story. Supposedly the they, the there
30:37
was a Chinese Princess was on her way to be married to the
30:42
Prince of Persia, to the King of Persia.
30:44
And when they're traveled to the border area, they realize she's
30:49
pregnant. They realized, oh, crap, we
30:53
cannot complete the mission. Abort, abort, abort the mission,
30:57
abort the mission. So they had the baby was not
30:59
aborted, that the baby was born locally.
31:02
And he, they, they founded their own Kingdom in the region.
31:05
And the Princess also smuggled the silkworm eggs in her hair.
31:12
So that's how the silk cultivation spread in the
31:16
region. That that was a local legend.
31:18
And. Yeah.
31:21
Call. What's going on here?
31:23
We are, I think we're in the carpet factory this in Kashgar
31:27
and and behind us. Those are like hand woven
31:30
traditional carpet. You know, these just like the
31:34
those Persian carpet or you know, carpet from Afghanistan,
31:38
the in Xinjiang, they also have a local tradition of weaving
31:42
carpet. You know, it's very Central
31:44
Asian and the worst sitting in one of the large, larger, you
31:49
know, carpet pieces. This is what makes China very
31:53
interesting. It's sheer size means that
31:57
you're going to end up with a vastly different Chinese people
32:03
on the left hand side to the right hand side.
32:07
That's correct. I mean, China traditionally had
32:09
been an empire for thousands of years and you Corp incorporated
32:14
a lot of different people and and different group.
32:18
So you know people, you know peeps, a lot of people go to
32:22
Xinjiang. Their first remark is like, oh,
32:25
this doesn't feel like China because they usually have a
32:29
strong stereotypical, the idea of what China should be, should
32:33
be like water buffaloes and people in like pointed straw
32:37
hats and stuff like that. But Xinjiang is very Central
32:39
Asian because you know, it's, it is part of Central Asia and you
32:44
know, it has a deep cultural ties to, to the neighboring
32:48
countries like Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Kyrgyzstan,
32:52
Tajikistan, etcetera. And, and in fact, in fact, it is
32:56
the hub of the Silk Road. You know all the Silk Road that
32:59
link China to the West, It all goes through Xinjiang.
33:04
And now the belt and Rd. Now the belt, I mean if in fact
33:08
the Belt and Road, Belt and Road is a short for Silk Road,
33:14
Economic Belt and Marine time Silk Road.
33:18
So So this is Belt and Road is China's attempt to revive
33:23
ancient Silk Road links. You mentioned Tajikistan.
33:28
Wasn't it funny how they thought I was a Tajik?
33:33
So okay, so for our audience, we went through the border, so
33:38
there's a lot of security checks in Xinjiang, but most of them we
33:41
just got waved through. They just asked to lower our
33:45
windows, look through the camera where they do AI facial
33:50
recognition, I'm sure. And then then they just send us
33:53
on our way. You know, they just tell us,
33:54
okay, buckle your safety belt, please.
33:57
And so so, but when we got closer to the border, there's
34:01
much tighter security. So Pepe and our our Russian
34:08
photographer, who is very blonde and blue eyed, they got stopped
34:12
at almost every checkpoint to show their passport.
34:16
You know why they're there. And whereas you and me, we were
34:21
sitting in the same car, we just got way through.
34:23
So after a while we're like, what do they think?
34:29
Who do they think you are? Like how come they didn't ask
34:33
you for your passport? So we figured they must thought
34:36
you are local. You're you're low.
34:39
Maybe they thought you are local Tajik.
34:43
And then you asked our driver and he said yes, they thought I
34:46
was Tajik. Yeah, yeah.
34:51
My people need me call. You want to see your people, you
34:55
want to connect with your roots in China.
35:00
But of course, China's not all, you know, technological
35:04
advancement. I mean, we, we had to endure
35:09
this, ah. Yes, yeah.
35:13
So, so that's, that's very typical.
35:15
I mean, most of the places that they have squat toilet, you
35:19
know, like a lot of Chinese people prefer squat toilet
35:22
because then they're they their their butts don't have to touch
35:25
the same surface many other people's butts have touched.
35:29
So it it's a it's a, it's a matter of preference, you know,
35:33
a matter of preference. But I, I.
35:34
Understand squatting and the squatting keeps you fit.
35:37
Yes, I understand it can be difficult for Westerners
35:41
because, you know, Westerners are not used to squatting like
35:43
where, where's the Asians? We're used to the Asian squad
35:47
from, from a very young age. So, so it's natural for us.
35:50
But I can understand, you know, maybe, maybe people, Western
35:53
people need to do more yoga, you know, like so you can, so you
35:57
can squat down and and be the on your flat of your feet.
36:02
Another thing that I really loved about China is how based
36:10
they are. You know, they don't, they don't
36:13
mess around when they show you a lady's toilet.
36:16
I mean, yeah, we have a ballerina.
36:22
And then, gentlemen, China is also very diverse.
36:36
I mean, OK, look, so it's got a huge Han population, but on the
36:41
Western side, it has multiple other populations.
36:43
And this leads to geopolitical conflict.
36:47
I mean, like, like I said, right?
36:52
The The thing is, I don't know why people expect China to be a
36:58
ethnic state. China is not a ethnic state.
37:00
You know, even in Chinese constitution, it says it's a
37:04
multi ethnic country and it has always been a multi ethnic
37:09
empire throughout the thousands of years of history.
37:13
And it and, and the whole idea of, you know, like a nation
37:18
state should be like a monolithic like ethanol state.
37:22
I mean that that itself is pretty new.
37:25
You know, that that only started like with World War One in
37:28
Europe when they, you know, start doing like ethnic
37:31
cleansing. So to make nice knee borders
37:33
with like one single ethnic group.
37:37
Most of the human society, I think in most, most places live
37:41
in a kind of, you know, multi ethnic empire or one way or
37:47
another. Then there was a very
37:54
informative part of the trip and that was driving up to almost 4
37:59
1/2 thousand meters above sea level and sitting on a yak.
38:05
Yeah, so we were. This is the White Sand Lake in
38:09
Xinjiang. We it was really cold because
38:12
because it's high elevations, it was, the wind was blowing.
38:17
It was really, really cold. But the, the local, so a lot of
38:22
tourists will stop by at that spot because from that spot you
38:25
have the, the, the entire view of the lake.
38:28
And so a lot of people stop by, take pictures and the local
38:32
Kirgis Herdzman, you know, being enterprise pricing
38:37
entrepreneurs, they just set up their camps there.
38:40
You know, they brought their yurts to and their yaks and they
38:43
rent out their yaks for tourists for photographs and that.
38:47
And they they take photo for you.
38:49
You know, they charge a little bit extra.
38:50
But so, yeah, we all got our photos taken.
38:53
It was. It was a fun experience.
38:56
Yeah, but I mean, another beautiful part of that is the
39:01
color of that water. Yeah, because there's a lot of
39:05
minerals that came from the glacial melt from the Tansa
39:09
Mountains. That's what gave that very
39:13
intense green color. And because also we are at high
39:17
elevation, the sun is a lot stronger.
39:21
I didn't even realize that until, like, I sent my pictures
39:24
back to my wife and my wife's like, oh, did you apply
39:27
sunscreen? Your glasses already turned
39:30
dark? You know, the UV must be really
39:32
strong. It was true.
39:34
Like, the sun is quite intense. That's why we saw a lot of solar
39:39
farms. When we're there, we travel
39:42
through like miles and miles or kilometers and kilometers of
39:45
solar farms because there's a lot of solar energy in Xinjiang.
39:50
Now keep in mind, again, we were almost 4 1/2 thousand meters
39:53
above sea level. That's more than double the
39:56
height of Janesburg. And Janesburg is considered
39:58
quite high, you know, in South African terms.
40:01
And that's very. Yeah, Remember they gave us,
40:03
they gave us oxygen tanks in case.
40:06
Yes, yes. And they have entrepreneurs who
40:10
at 4000m sea level selling tourist oxygen tanks because,
40:16
you know, being Chinese, they, they never missed a chance to,
40:19
to make some money. And, and it was, it was nice.
40:22
It was nice like, because I was Pepe decided to challenge
40:27
himself to, to walk to the lookout point at 4200 meter
40:34
above sea level. And I was about to follow his
40:38
footsteps. But you know, I think it was
40:40
you. Was it you that you told me you
40:42
got to breathe in deeply? So when I tried to breathe in
40:45
deeply and suddenly I was like having a little panic attack
40:49
because I was like, feel like I wasn't getting enough oxygen.
40:52
So I grabbed the oxygen canister.
40:54
That's the only time I used it. But it was quite nice to have it
40:57
to have that option. I didn't, yeah, I didn't use the
40:59
oxygen, but I remember feeling a bit light headed.
41:03
Yeah, yeah. Because I was happy to be done.
41:07
Yeah, I was happy to be at the bottom.
41:09
At that level, the the the oxygen level in the air is only
41:12
like 50% of the air at the sea level.
41:17
So yeah. Call One of the greatest moments
41:21
One of the greatest moments in China was this.
41:28
Oh, you guys were you guys were starving for some hamburgers
41:33
like we were. I, I remember when we're
41:37
travelling in Xinjiang, you know, like you and both you and
41:41
Pepe, you're like, we'll be dying for some hamburger.
41:44
And then next thing we know, we drove through, we drove through
41:49
like a roadside restaurant. They serve Jack burgers.
41:53
And it was good. And it was good.
41:54
It was good, right? Yeah, it was very good.
41:58
I think we bought like 3 or 4 of different different kinds.
42:03
We bought, we bought a whole bunch.
42:05
Yeah, we both. Sides of the drive, Yeah, we got
42:07
into. The road.
42:12
Where was that though? I'm trying to remember now.
42:14
That that's the Tashkurgan, that's when we when we went,
42:19
when we start climbing toward the Pakistan border.
42:22
So, so our way back, our way back from Tashkurgan back to
42:26
Kashkar. But yeah, we're in some mountain
42:29
Rd. And there was on the side of the
42:31
road there's a burger joint. So that was great.
42:38
Yes, you call with a Uyghur Hai or Tajik.
42:43
Yeah, yeah, she's, she's, she's a Uyghur.
42:45
So we, this is a night we spend in Tajikurgan.
42:48
And so the hotel we stay, they have these like little cultural
42:53
introduction, right? They, there's a Uyghur host and
42:56
there's like a bunch of Tajik dancers and they all invite us
43:02
to do the dance. And then this is our picture
43:04
afterwards. So I was wearing a, a Tajik hat,
43:08
like made Fung sheep wool, I think.
43:12
Yeah. Again, sadly, I think she was,
43:17
you know, put in front of the firing squad later that night.
43:20
Yes, yes, that was her last performance.
43:25
Where does this idea come from that Uyghurs are being killed by
43:30
the Chinese government? Well, I think there's a lot of
43:33
projection when people talk about China, right when, when
43:37
people because they they feel like, OK, if because US was
43:44
founded on genocide of Native Americans, on slavery of
43:50
imported Africans. So China must also been doing
43:55
some shady stuff, right? Like this is kind of a why talk
43:59
to a our black American Muslim friend Dana, who took us around
44:05
Shanghai. He calls it the universalization
44:09
of oppression. So they think, OK, they, the
44:14
Chinese, if we know the US government is bad, doing bad
44:18
things, but the Chinese must be must be worse, if not as bad,
44:25
right. So I think it's that assumption
44:27
and the fact that there were some security crackdown in
44:31
Xinjiang because the tourism incident that that happened.
44:35
And and so a lot of the, and the fact that they're just not many
44:41
information coming out of coming out of China in general.
44:44
I think that allowed created this informational vacuum where
44:49
people can easily wage disinformation campaigns, you
44:53
know, against China, you know, to say there's a Uyghur
44:57
genocide, which is completely bogus, you know, given what's
45:00
actually happening in Gaza right now and what we saw Xin Xin
45:04
Jiang in our trip, you know, this that that claim is does not
45:08
hold any water, you know, like because we were walking through.
45:12
Yeah, exactly. Like all all these people down
45:15
there, they're Uyghurs. This is we actually went to a
45:18
Uyghur wedding in Kashgar. This is one of their last night
45:22
there. So.
45:23
So it was interesting to have like the the man and the women,
45:29
they have the separate dance circle.
45:31
So that was a groom that's been surrounded by friends and
45:34
relatives and they all, you know, go up to him and
45:38
challenging him to a dance off. And during the dance off, they
45:42
will give him stuffed money into his pocket.
45:45
So my question is, what if the his pocket is not big enough?
45:50
You know, what if what if he like there's more money than
45:54
than the how much he pocket could hold?
45:57
But somehow they made it work. Dude that was a party of night
46:02
that Uyghur wedding. I don't know how those people
46:07
got in there. I think.
46:10
I think those two were shot after or executed right after
46:14
the wedding. But I mean, that was a serious
46:18
party. I've never seen a wedding like
46:20
that. That was something that was, you
46:25
know, it's the the restaurant owner actually figured out a
46:29
really good scheme. So he apparently he allowed the
46:33
first floor to be, to be used for wedding venue, but he must,
46:39
you know, got the, the the wedding couple to agree.
46:42
Maybe give them a discount or something to, to allow the
46:46
restaurant patrons on the 2nd floor to be spectators, you
46:51
know, so we could be there and participate and, and take
46:55
photos. And so it was great.
46:57
It was a great atmosphere. We, this is the second wedding
47:01
we went to. We, we, we, we ran into because
47:04
in, in Turpan, I don't know if you were there cuz we got back
47:10
to Turpan really late. And then we, we noticed there's
47:14
loud music in the lobby and we saw some women like dressed very
47:18
nice. And then we, we, we, we, we saw
47:21
in one the hotel like they're. No, I went.
47:26
I went upstairs to call my wife. Yeah, yeah, cuz we, we, so we
47:30
did, we start, just start peeking in and we realized it's
47:33
a wedding reception. And then, yeah, I was with Pepe
47:37
Escobar and the hotel receptionist saw what we're
47:41
doing. They're like just go in.
47:42
We're like, really? Yeah.
47:44
They're like going, we're like, can we take photos and shoot?
47:47
They're like, yeah, yeah, yeah, just go in.
47:48
And we went in. It was great.
47:50
And we just got to the dance off part where the, the former
47:53
circle around the groom and it's another circle around the bride.
47:57
You know, all the groomsmen are dancing with the groom and the
47:59
bridesmaid dancing with the bride.
48:01
I got that all on video. It was great.
48:03
And, and so after that, our tour guide said, OK, we'll find a
48:09
traditional Uyghur wedding for you to go.
48:12
And they found on Chinese social media, you know, this restaurant
48:16
in Kashgar that does this kind of thing.
48:18
They, they host weddings and they allow the restaurant guest
48:22
to, to, to, to, to, to spectate from the 2nd floor.
48:27
So that's where we went to and it was great time.
48:30
And just as a reminder, they are Uyghur police in Uyghur
48:35
territory. Yeah, The thing is all the
48:38
reporting, right? They always try to create this
48:42
false dichotomy, like the Chinese police are oppressing
48:46
the Uyghur people. Well, when you go travel there,
48:50
you realize most of the local police are also Uyghur and
48:53
they're very professional. They're very, very polite.
48:55
We because there's one time in Jharkhand on our way to cash
48:59
card, we did get pulled off for passport checks because, you
49:04
know, Pepe Escobar and, and our rushing for that.
49:09
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Give blow our cover.
49:11
So, so at that time, we they did check our passport, but they
49:15
were very apologetic. They're sorry we have to do
49:17
this, you know, like, like we really apologize and they sent
49:22
us on our way. They're very, very nice.
49:24
And even according to Stan, our Russian photographer, he said
49:28
the the Xinjiang police were nicer and more polite than the
49:32
Shanghai police. So, but yeah, that was our
49:36
experience. But we were in the desert.
49:39
I just remembered now we saw a very interesting rock.
49:48
Yes, yes. I mean, it's, yeah, it's kind of
49:51
firm, isn't it? It rises up.
49:54
It's very erect, yes. Yes, and everybody was taking
49:59
photographs in front of this rock.
50:02
Yeah, me. Yours truly included.
50:09
I mean, I mean, look at that. That was where the police
50:16
actually came to inspect our our footage.
50:20
Yeah, yeah. Because we went in a
50:23
particularly sensitive time because we the time we went was
50:28
right around the National Day. And also you just so happened
50:33
that on the national day, that was like the 50th anniversary of
50:37
the founding of the Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region.
50:40
So Xi Jinping was in town to visit.
50:43
And because of that, as part of the security measure, they had a
50:46
blanket drone butt band across most of the Xinjiang.
50:52
And so we thought, we thought we're out here in the middle of
50:55
nowhere in a Canyon of the desert.
50:58
You know, who is going to know? And then so we, we, we had our
51:02
Russian photographer flew the Jones and then 23rd half hour
51:06
later, the police can't find us. Like whatever you guys doing
51:11
that didn't you know there's a Jones van?
51:14
We're like, oh shit. So I, I think what according to
51:19
the, our, our photographer theory stand is that the all
51:23
these drones, they all have to send their coordinates, right?
51:27
And so they, they would know instant a drone has taken off.
51:31
And so, so we got smart we later.
51:35
So instead of using our own drones, we saw these Chinese
51:39
tourists who are flying their drone.
51:42
So we asked them to take a video of us and and and send to us on
51:46
WeChat. Yeah.
51:50
And then while we were driving through the desert call, in the
51:54
middle of nowhere there are these statues of horses.
52:00
Yeah, yeah, yeah. This was like a high, almost
52:03
like a highway rest stop or like a lookout point where you can,
52:07
you know, park your car on the side of the road and go to the
52:10
restroom. I I don't, I don't know what the
52:13
statue of the horses are, you know, like what their
52:16
significance. But it was just, that's where we
52:18
stop. This is where we stop in the
52:20
right in the dead center of Takamakan Desert.
52:23
And. Yeah.
52:26
And just to be clear, we drove for 11 hours on that road
52:30
through sand. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
52:33
That that. That was tiring.
52:36
It is, I mean, it is, is I asked our, our driver, he said that's
52:41
what travelling in Xinjiang is like.
52:43
Because Xinjiang is such a huge place.
52:45
It's basically the size of Alaska.
52:48
A lot of time you are, you're just going from point A to point
52:52
B, you know from 1-1 tourist spot to the next and there's
52:56
like hours of driving in between.
52:57
It is just what it is. Automated people mover, which is
53:02
just another way of saying a train.
53:06
Right. I think it's like a, it's a,
53:11
it's someone use probably use like a not Google Translate, but
53:16
this Chinese equivalent to do like a machine translation.
53:19
This is what you get right? But yes, what's funny, it's
53:22
actually logical. I mean, it was automated in the
53:26
sense that it had no driver and it, you know, was moving people.
53:30
Yeah, I mean, that's what it literally means in Chinese.
53:36
That's why it literally means in Chinese.
53:37
They just literally translate into English.
53:41
By the way, I hear this competition now for the most
53:44
advanced city not being Shanghai but actually being Chengdu.
53:50
I mean it's a tier one city now. Oh, well, OK, there these are
53:54
so-called the new tier one cities.
53:56
I mean, basically they just upgraded all the tier, formerly
54:00
Tier 2 cities and they call them new tier one cities now it's
54:04
kind of tourism promotion. I, I think.
54:07
I mean, Chengdu is very nice. I, I have travelled to Chengdu
54:11
after you, you know, you, you, you made stop by at the airport,
54:14
but I actually did a day trip to Chengdu afterwards.
54:18
It's, it's very nice. It's a very nice city and the
54:22
price is a lot cheaper than Shanghai because Chengdu is much
54:25
more inland. But you know what Chengdu is
54:27
most famous for in, in, in China, it's known as the gay
54:33
capital of China. That's.
54:38
What Chen? What?
54:39
I don't know that. Yeah, it's it's gay friendly
54:44
city, that's what it is. Where will we?
54:47
When we were at that coffee shop where we we saw that that that
54:51
flaming gay guy, the flaming gay Uyghur.
54:54
We were in Kucha, which is a small today by Chinese standard,
54:59
a small city, you know, like like now, but like a, like a
55:03
tourist stop on the Xinjiang tourism circuit.
55:07
And we found this very nice, a coffee shop that's serving
55:13
coffee and playing jazz music. And as we were relaxing on the
55:18
lawn chairs and you point out to me, it's like, Carl, did you see
55:23
that flaming guy? I was like, oh, yeah, he's,
55:26
he's, he's definitely flaming. But, you know, he's, it's he he
55:34
probably he was able to, you know, present himself in such a
55:39
way only in more recent years because Xinjiang in the old
55:45
times was like a very, how do I say, like a traditional
55:50
conservative Muslim place, Right.
55:54
I mean, that he will look very out of place.
55:56
But I guess today it's OK. You know, he was just out in the
56:00
open, you know, like people just look at him and know he's gay
56:04
and. Yeah.
56:06
We will probably get accused of painting China with rose tinted
56:12
glasses in this discussion, but I think it is true to say that
56:16
China is like, from my experience, most other
56:20
countries. It's a country with nuance.
56:23
It has lots of good things and it has lots of bad things.
56:26
It absolutely has a dark underbelly.
56:28
What country doesn't? And it's got its own problems
56:33
for sure. And I am from Africa and I do
56:35
prefer living in Africa. I'm used to what I have.
56:40
I, I, I, all I know is a broken infrastructure.
56:43
But there is a sense of freedom that comes with, without chaos.
56:46
But at the same time, there is something incredible about the
56:49
order and the hierarchy that you see in China.
56:53
And I'd be very happy to import some of that here.
56:58
I'm not wild about all those cameras, and I'm not certain
57:02
either a call how effective they are because London has millions
57:08
of cameras too, and it has a huge crime problem.
57:11
So I'm not entirely certain if cameras are just theater.
57:16
Well, that's a good question. Now you got to ask the question
57:20
is, you know, so, so, so in China, the, the rationale for
57:23
the camera is public safety, right?
57:26
And, and people say, well, Cam because the camera now people
57:30
are actually lining up. They're not jaywalking and
57:33
stuff. They're still working on that.
57:35
But long, like you said, London has just as many cameras and
57:41
there's still, it's still a very crime written city.
57:44
Why is that? Well, I think it has to also
57:47
come down to enforcement. You know, if you have cameras
57:50
and you don't do Jack shit about actually enforcing the law and,
57:57
and, and then then what's the point?
57:59
And I think you know that this is the difference between China
58:02
and and, and London or, or, or New York is it's not just the
58:08
cameras you actually need a effective law enforcement.
58:14
But my point was that I don't think China is somehow more
58:21
totalitarian and hellhole ish than other countries.
58:25
I would. I mean, I would say that it's on
58:28
par with its pros and it's cons and it and it has beautiful
58:32
things and it has bad things and there's nothing wrong in
58:35
celebrating the beautiful things either.
58:38
China is just a normal country. It's just different.
58:41
It's a normal country like any other country, but it's just
58:43
very different because it's they have a very different culture,
58:47
very different history. So and, and, and you know, you
58:51
different language, obviously. So that's why when people you go
58:55
there, you feel like you are in another world, in another
58:58
civilizational space. But fundamentally, just like any
59:02
other country, you know, it has it has problems, it also has
59:06
it's good, good sides. And you know, for for us
59:10
tourists who who travel to China, you know, we are just
59:14
reporting what we saw, you know, on the limited time that we
59:18
spent there. I mean, everything works.
59:22
Mostly everything works train run on time.
59:25
And you know, so whatever you think about Chinese government
59:30
policies, that primarily effects Chinese citizens living in
59:36
China. Me because I have AUS passport I
59:42
could care less what China do in China and and and and for me I
59:49
have more I'm more concerned by my own government for the US
59:54
government reading through my emails and and and because they
59:58
actually have jurisdiction over me you know they they have I
1:00:02
have I'm obligated to pay taxes to Uncle Sammy every year so I
1:00:05
would be more worried about US and China just.
1:00:09
For the simple fact that Chinese government have no jurisdiction
1:00:12
over me. So I don't understand why people
1:00:14
outside of China would be, you know, somehow scared of the big
1:00:18
bad China an. American economist, friend of
1:00:22
ours whose name we won't mention because he asked to remain
1:00:25
anonymous. But we went and had supper with
1:00:27
him in Shanghai and he's lived in China for almost three years.
1:00:32
And and he was saying that his kid has been asked by the US
1:00:37
government to to get a, an American passport.
1:00:41
And he's like, no, no, I want him to have a Chinese passport
1:00:44
because despite Xi Jinping having his problems, he'd rather
1:00:50
have those problems than the American problems.
1:00:53
Yeah, he he, he, he's was very clear with us.
1:00:57
He didn't like Xi Jinping. He hates Xi Jinping.
1:00:59
But Even so, he rather that his kid only have Chinese passport
1:01:05
than have, you know, have American passport.
1:01:07
So I think that that that speaks volumes.
1:01:11
I haven't met, in my personal experience, anybody who's been
1:01:15
to China and has come back and said, man, that is a terrible
1:01:18
country. Nobody.
1:01:21
Yeah. There is a dude now I.
1:01:27
Was going to say there is a dude on YouTube who's who's called
1:01:29
serpent ZA but but I mean he's he's funded I think to to to
1:01:33
push out anti China propaganda. He had a bad experience a few
1:01:36
years ago and now he hates China.
1:01:39
I, I think, you know, he figured out what get him most money for,
1:01:43
you know, how, how, how to best monetize his YouTube channels.
1:01:47
Because if you, if he figured out if you make China bad
1:01:50
videos, he will get more views. His videos are more promoted,
1:01:54
you know, and, and it's kind of positive reinforcement, right?
1:01:58
I mean, so, so, so you then you make more, more China bad videos
1:02:01
because that's what your audience want to see.
1:02:04
But it's, it's, it's doesn't mean it's rooted in reality
1:02:07
because he himself haven't been in China for many years.
1:02:11
He moved to United States. So all this time he's like
1:02:15
talking to you from like a basement somewhere and and, and,
1:02:19
and and and talking about this China that exists in people's
1:02:22
imaginations. I also didn't mind using WeChat.
1:02:28
I know that it has a lot of criticism, but I don't need it
1:02:32
outside of China, so I only used it when I was inside China.
1:02:36
My only criticism on WeChat is, you know, I, I do think they
1:02:41
have, they must have some security loopholes because
1:02:45
somehow these Chinese scamming telescam groups got hold of my
1:02:50
number. I mean, I only think way I could
1:02:52
think they could got hold of my number is probably through some
1:02:55
kind of WeChat lead because I keep on getting calls.
1:02:58
They in Chinese, I have package waiting for me at the Chinese
1:03:03
consulate. Like what?
1:03:05
Why would I have a package waiting for me in the Chinese
1:03:08
consulate, right? Because apparently they, they,
1:03:11
they somehow knew I was Chinese, but they didn't know that I
1:03:14
don't have a Chinese passport and so I have no reason to go to
1:03:18
the Chinese consulate. But anyway, go ahead.
1:03:21
It was really funny that you're Chinese and in China you
1:03:24
couldn't use WeChat, but I'm Tajik, so I could use WeChat.
1:03:30
That's right. That was quite funny.
1:03:33
I mean, you couldn't get your WeChat working.
1:03:36
Well, my WeChat is working. Is the WeChat payment is
1:03:41
sometimes sometimes is janky because because my WeChat isn't
1:03:47
it's, it's complicated because my WeChat or only in the last
1:03:53
few years, China have made it that you can link your foreign
1:03:56
bank cards with WeChat and Alipay, you know which that you,
1:04:00
you were able to use. But when I was in China in 2019,
1:04:04
that was not the case. So what I did was I asked my
1:04:07
auntie to open a bank account for me, but under her name that
1:04:12
was linked to my WeChat. It's a Chinese bank.
1:04:15
It's a Chinese bank. So it was linked to my WeChat.
1:04:18
But what happened is then there's other apps.
1:04:21
Sometimes they need identity verification.
1:04:23
So when I try to use the DD app, which calls a taxi from WeChat,
1:04:29
he wants to take, he wants me to take a picture to do facial,
1:04:34
facial recognition to make sure I'm, I am what I said, who I was
1:04:38
and I don't look exactly like my auntie.
1:04:41
That's why you. Look nothing like it.
1:04:47
It's like 2 different people. But yeah.
1:04:55
How can my audience follow you? Well, I now have my own show on
1:05:00
UK column. You know, like I have a show
1:05:04
every Monday, Monday, Wednesday and Friday about I think they're
1:05:11
push out around 9:00 PM UK time. And and I also have my own
1:05:17
YouTube channel as well. You know, people can just search
1:05:19
my name Carl Zah. And I'm also a very prolific
1:05:23
shit poster on Twitter. Just look for my handle Carl
1:05:26
Zah. So I don't take Twitter
1:05:28
seriously. So you shouldn't use it unless
1:05:31
what I tweeted is true, then do take it serious.
1:05:36
Carl Zah, thank you for joining me in the trenches.
1:05:40
Anytime Germs.