Latest / Wicked and Grim: A True Crime Podcast / The Camden Ripper - Anthony Hardy

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The Camden Ripper - Anthony Hardy · Wicked and Grim: A True Crime Podcast

• 0:07
  Speaker 1: He was intelligent, highly educated, and once appeared destined for success.
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: But behind that seemingly ordinary life was a deeply disturbed
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: and increasingly dangerous man. Over the years, violence, disturbing allegations,
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: and repeated warnings about his behavior followed him until he
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: eventually settled into a small apartment in London. But what
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: happened inside that apartment... would earn him one of the
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: most infamous names in modern British criminal history. He became
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: known as the Camden Ripper. This is the story of
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: Anthony Hardy, a.k.a. the Camden Ripper. My name's Ben.
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: I'm Nicole, and you're listening to Wicked and Grim.
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: A true crime podcast.
• 1:07
  Speaker 3: Listener discretion is advised. Do you know that song, Your Love,
• 1:15
  Speaker 3: by The Outfield? I don't know.
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: No. I have to hear things to know.
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: Well, it's that song goes, Josie's on a vacation far away.
• 1:37
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: Right?
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: Well, Josie is our lone patron subscriber this week and
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: she's on a vacation over in Patreon enjoying all that
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: good stuff behind the scenes and exclusive content.
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: I was like, where are you going with this? I
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: didn't see that coming in the least.
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: I'm glad. So shout out to you, Josie.
• 1:56
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: Thank you.
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: That's awesome. I thought I hit the ground running with
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: that one.
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: You sure did. No one was prepared or ready.
• 2:03
  Speaker 3: No one?
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: You didn't have your pants tightened up enough for it?
• 2:06
  Speaker 3: No.
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: Did I blow your pants off you or something like that?
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: Oh my gosh. Thankfully not.
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: You did the string up on those slacks this morning.
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: That's what you're saying.
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: I sure did. My bright blue sweatpants, you know?
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: Hey, it's a lazy day in this tiny home today.
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: We did a pre-show and we were talking about the
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: fog that's out there right now. It is spooky. It is.
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: Fall is officially here.
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah. It is sure here. Summer is over.
• 2:35
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: I do have to admit, though, we got a cast
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: iron cauldron. I think we talked about it already. I
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: think we got to do some more soups and stuff
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: in that sucker. It's been amazing so far.
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: You're obsessed with it.
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: It's so awesome. It's amazing.
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: Okay, but can you do anything else in there? Because
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: for some reason, I just want to eat mac and
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: cheese out of it.
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you could. You could definitely do mac and cheese
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: in that.
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: And make the whole, like make the roux and everything.
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: Well, I mean, traditional mac and cheese, I don't think
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: actually uses a roux, but we usually do a roux.
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: We do kind of like an Alfredo cheesy sauce for us.
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, I think so. Why not?
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: Damn, I'd feel like a badass stirring up some mac
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: and cheese in there. Oh my gosh, that would like
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: make my life.
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: Nicole's witchy vibe is stirring a cauldron, not of potions
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: or brews. But of mac and cheese.
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: Hell yeah. Freaking yeah. Just live your life and eat
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: mac and cheese. It's so good.
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: I just picture that like typical stereotypical like witch in
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: a forest, big bonfire and just a full moon just
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: stirring the cauldron and a camera slowly pans over and
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: it's just mac and cheese. And you're like, you want
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: a bowl? that's what i think yeah the cackle just
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: came out even did.
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: You hear that that would be me honestly that sounds
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: epic that sounds amazing that does i want i want
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: to recreate this scene.
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: We've got a big bowl of like real parmesan or
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: sorry big bowl big block of real parmesan cheese in
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: the fridge right now too you could like do like
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: nice parmesan crust on top.
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: And yeah ben's a bougie bitch and when he goes
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: to costco he has to buy parmesan cheese he spends
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: 40 bucks on this shit and uh We have Parmesan
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: cheese in the fridge always, pretty much.
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: I don't know if I'm going to pronounce it right,
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: but I'm going to do my best. It's Parmigiano-Reggiano is
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: how you actually pronounce real Parmesan cheese. It is the
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: most bootlegged food in the world. Most copied, faked. You know,
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: you get like faked clothing and stuff. Yeah, they fake Parmesan.
• 4:38
  Speaker 3: Oh, yeah.
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: Real Parmesan can only come from a certain area over,
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: I believe it's Italy.
• 4:43
  Speaker 3: Italy.
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: And it's a certain area where the bacteria can grow
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: there and create the proper cheese. Nowhere else in the
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: world can recreate this bacteria and recreate the cheese.
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: I like how I just got you going here. Gosh, sorry, everyone.
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: You're a bit of a wino. I'm a cheese-o.
• 4:59
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: And you know when you go shopping at Costco and
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: you just don't want really to run into anyone or
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: talk to anyone? If you run into Ben while he's
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: buying the Parmesan, he will sell you the Parmesan.
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah. No, like complete strangers. I've seen them looking
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: at like fake Parmesan and real Parmesan. And I always like,
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: I'm like, that's a good choice. It's real stuff. Or
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: I see the fake people grabbing the fake shaker stuff.
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: And I'm like, okay, don't get me wrong. It's good.
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: But do you want the real deal?
• 5:26
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: Even better. It's just over here. And I like lead
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: them there and I'm like, get it. It's so good.
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: So worth it.
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: You should probably work for them to be honest.
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: I should. Though I will admit it is expensive. but
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: it's delicious and worth it.
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: It does up-level a dish for sure. I'll give you that.
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: Well, I think we should move on because this is
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: not Wicked and Grim, the true cheese podcast. This is
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: the true crime podcast.
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: Yes, let's move on. Though cheese is awesome, but yeah,
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: let's move on.
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: Okay, let's move on. Let's get on with the story
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: at this point. How's that sound? So Anthony John Hardy
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: was born on May 31st, 1951 in Burton, Uptrent, Staffordshire, England.
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: He was born into a working-class family, and he was
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: one of five children. His father worked as a local miner,
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: and there wasn't anything in Anthony's early life that suggested
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: where he would eventually end up. In fact, by most accounts,
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: he was intelligent. He did really well in school, and
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: was particularly strong academically. He passed his exams, attended grammar school,
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: and eventually earned a place at Imperial College London, where
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: he studied engineering, and was said to have graduated with
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: a degree in in mechanical engineering. For a time, Anthony
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: seemed to be building an entirely conventional life. He worked professionally,
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: and at one point held a management position. And in 1972,
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: he married Judith Dwight, who is described as his university sweetheart. Together,
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: they went on to have four children, two sons and
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: two daughters, and the family eventually moved to Australia, settling
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: into Tasmania. But that ordinary life soon began to fracture
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: badly in the early 1980s. In fact, on April 5th, 1982,
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: Anthony attacked Judith inside their home. The assault began at
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: approximately 6.30 a.m., while Judith was still in bed. Anthony
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: had taken a plastic bottle, filled it with water, froze it,
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: and then used it as a weapon to strike his
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: wife in the head. With Judith dazed and semi-conscious, he
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: then moved her into the bathroom. where he then attempted
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: to hold her head beneath the water that he had
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: filled in the bathtub.
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: What is hap- you're like, okay, you're just getting right
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: into this, but what is happening here?
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: Hitting the ground running in this case, trust me. Now,
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: the attack reportedly stopped when the couple's oldest child entered
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: the bathroom and began screaming upon what they were seeing.
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: No kidding.
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: Now, Anthony's choice of weapon was especially disturbing for this incident. Now,
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: reportedly- Anthony had deliberately filled up this bottle and froze
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: it so that it would be solid ice and could
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: be used as a blunt weapon. Then his plan was
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: to thaw it out, you know, melting it afterwards to
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: discard of it. In fact, Anthony apparently later told police
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: that the idea had been inspired by a novel in
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: which an ice weapon was used because it would disappear
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: once it melted. Now, Anthony also told police that he'd
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: been thinking about the attack for roughly two weeks in advance.
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: He also said he was intoxicated when he carried it out. Now, thankfully,
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: Judith survived the incident, and despite the seriousness of the attack,
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: Anthony was not prosecuted for attempted murder of his wife.
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: The exact reason why is unclear, but what we do
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: know is that he was instead admitted to psychiatric care
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: in Australia, where he was assessed for problems involving depression, mania,
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: and personality disturbance. Many records also describe Anthony as someone
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: who was suffering from bipolar disorder, with long-standing problems with
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: alcohol and episodes of psychiatric instability. But regardless of his diagnosis,
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: the violence towards Judith did not end there. After Anthony
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: left psychiatric care, he was accused of locking her in
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: a hotel room and threatening to kill her. Now, Judith
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: thankfully didn't stick around much after this, but that doesn't
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: mean it wasn't difficult for her. She initially began divorce proceedings,
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: then withdrew them, then filed them again in February of 1985.
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: Their marriage finally ended in the mid-1980s, and what followed
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: from there was a prolonged campaign of harassment. Anthony was
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: accused of repeatedly following Judith, breaking into her property, sending
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: threatening messages, and ignoring a restraining order that was in place.
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: He even threw a brick through her window at one point,
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: and this behavior, well, it ultimately resulted in a prison
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: sentence for one year in 1987. But by the end
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: of the decade, the stability of Anthony's earlier life had
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: largely disappeared. He returned to Britain from there, struggled to
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: maintain steady employment, and spent periods in psychiatric treatment. There
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: are also reports that he worked as a minicab driver
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: during this period, but by the early and mid-1990s, Anthony
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: was moving between hostels and other temporary accommodations, and had
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: cemented his serious problems with alcohol as well. His mental
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: health continued to deteriorate, and he accumulated further encounters with
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: police involving theft, aggression, and intimidating behavior as well. However,
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: it was his behavior towards women that drew police attention.
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: In 1998, Anthony was arrested after a woman involved in
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: sex work accused him of sexual assault and raping her.
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: That woman was was an 18-year-old runaway who Anthony had
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: allowed to stay at his apartment before the alleged attack occurred. Now,
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: this case ultimately did not result in a conviction. In fact,
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: Anthony had also been investigated in connection with three separate
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: rape allegations around the same time. But police said there
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: had been insufficient evidence to bring charges.
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: Holy shit. Given his record, it probably should have, like...
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: you know, put him back in jail, no?
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: Probably, but the problem is evidence.
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: Also, what the hell is happening here? Because he was
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: like a married man, had four children. Yep. And now
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: all of a sudden he's just like a complete menace
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: to society. I'm just like having trouble understanding that.
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: Basically, whatever he had, whether it was mental or whether
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: it was just a desire, something caused him to basically crumble.
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: Because he was, he went to school for engineering. He
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: was in management and he had a good position. He
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: had a home, children, family, you name it. But he
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: threw it all away.
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: Wow. Okay. That's crazy.
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: Now, by around the year 2000, Anthony had been given
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: a ground floor council apartment at number four Heartland on
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: the college place estate of Royal College Street in Camden.
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: King's Cross, the famous, you know, train station was only
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: a short distance away. and at the time, while the
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: surrounding area had a visible street sex work scene. Anthony
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: was known to use sex workers regularly, and neighbors remembered
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: him as strange and withdrawn, sometimes aggressive and other times
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: heavily intoxicated. Inside his home, Anthony lived alone, consuming alcohol,
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: with an extensive pornography library and the remnants of what
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: had once been a very different life surrounding him. He'd
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: gone from an Imperial College engineering graduate to with a wife,
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: four children, and a professional career to a man with
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: a history of domestic violence, psychiatric hospitalization, imprisonment, alcohol abuse,
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: and repeated allegations of violence towards women. By January 2002,
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: Anthony had been living at No. 4 Heartland in Camden
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: for roughly two years. His ground floor apartment sat beneath
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: another residence, and Anthony had become involved in an ongoing
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: dispute with the neighbor above him, reportedly over prostitution. water
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: leaking down into his property. In the early hours of
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: January 20th, 2002, that dispute escalated. Anthony poured acid taken
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: from a car battery through the neighbor's letterbox and painted
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: obscene graffiti across their front door. At approximately 6.40 a.m.,
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: police arrived to investigate the damage. While examining the area
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: outside the upstairs apartment, officers noticed droplets and footprints leading
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: away from the scene towards the downstairs floor and to
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: Anthony's apartment. They knocked on his door, but there was
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: no answer. Officers returned a short time later and knocked again.
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: This time, Anthony did open the door. He eventually admitted
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: to damaging his neighbor's property and even showed police the
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: black paint he used to paint the graffiti. While officers
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: were inside his home for questioning, something else caught their attention.
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: One of the bedroom doors next to them was closed open.
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: and locked tightly. Anthony told them that the room belonged
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: to someone else, a tenant or lodger who was away,
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: someone who shared the space. He claimed that he didn't
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: have the key. As officers prepared to take him away
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: into custody for the criminal damages, Sergeant Nick Spinks searched
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: his clothing, making sure he didn't have any weapons or
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: sharp implements on him. And inside his coat, they happened
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: to find a key. Now that key happened to fit
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: the lock for that bedroom door. When police opened that door,
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: they found a woman lying naked on the bed with
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: a towel covering her head. Her name was Sally Rose White.
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: Sally was 31 years old. She had been living a
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: very difficult and unstable life in London. She was involved
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: in sex work around King's Cross and had struggled with
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: crack cocaine addictions. She had last been seen the previous day,
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: on January 19th, at a homeless charity. But now she
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: was found... dead. Inside Anthony Hardy's bedroom.
• 15:05
  Speaker 3: Oh, no.
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: I thought maybe that she would still be alive. Holy frig.
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: Okay. There was blood found around the backside of Sally's
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: head and on the bedding, while blood was also discovered
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: inside the hood of an article of her clothing, which
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: suggested she may have been wearing it when the injury
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: to her head had occurred before the garment was actually removed.
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: Police also observed a bite mark on her thigh, and
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: beside the bed was an unusual item, a bucket containing
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: warm water, and a sponge. The water's temperature was reportedly
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: approximately 25 degrees Celsius, despite the room itself being around
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: 19 degrees Celsius, which suggested that the water had been
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: drawn relatively recent. With Anthony intending to do whatever it was,
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: police didn't know. They couldn't establish something just simply by
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: this bucket being there, but the circumstances all added up
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: to a troubling detail. in an already disturbing room.
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: No kidding, this guy is disgusting.
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: Now, Anthony's demeanor reportedly changed dramatically once the door was opened.
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: Sergeant Spinks recalled him sweating heavily, and when questioned about
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: the dead woman in his bedroom, Anthony denied knowing how
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: she'd even gotten there. He blamed his drinking, said that
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: he suffered blackouts, and in another count, he told investigators
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: he'd been drunk, gone to sleep, and just woke up
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: to find her there. Needless to say, Anthony was arrested
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: on the suspicion of murder. The physical evidence that investigators
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: had spoke volumes. Sally was dead behind a door Anthony
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: claimed he could not open, yet had the key for.
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: She had visible injuries. Blood was found around her head,
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: inside her clothing. There was a bite mark on her body.
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: Her clothes had been removed, and a bucket of warm
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: water sat right nearby. But determining whether Anthony had killed
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: Sally depended heavily on on the medical evidence. The post-mortem
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: was conducted by home office pathologist Dr. Freddie Patel, and
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: he found that Sally actually had an underlying cardiovascular disease. Now, Dr.
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: Patel concluded that she had died naturally from a heart
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: attack rather than the result of any sort of violence.
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: For detectives, that finding changed absolutely everything. Now, despite the
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: post-mortem findings, police were still suspicious about the circumstances of
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: Sally's death. According to Sergeant Spinks, they requested a second
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: examination of her body to make sure nothing had been missed.
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: But the result did not change. Her death again was
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: attributed to natural causes, with the injuries found on her
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: body considered unrelated to the cause of her death.
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: Okay, I don't actually really know if I agree with
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: that either because couldn't she have had a heart attack
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: too because she was like bound and kidnapped basically? Couldn't
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: the stress of that have done that to her almost?
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: If she had a condition, you know?
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: Well, she wasn't bound though, for one thing.
• 18:07
  Speaker 3: Oh.
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: But you are on the right track. Yes, I mean,
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: the heart attack could have been caused by some of
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: these other injuries, the violence that she may have, you know, endured.
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: But what evidence do you have to suggest that? All
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: you have to say is that she has an underlying
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: heart condition and she suffered some sort of heart attack
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: and died.
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: Dang. I don't know. That just doesn't sit well with like, okay,
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: I'll just continue listening, but he better not get away
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: with it.
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: You're 100% right. I agree with you. Don't get me wrong.
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: I'm just trying to argue for what the evidence is
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: on hand and what the investigators and pathologists are discussing.
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: The discussion is the evidence does not show the violence
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: equaled heart attack.
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: They're in a tough position as well, clearly.
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: Exactly. So now without medical evidence establishing homicide, the police
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: couldn't treat the circumstances inside Anthony's bedroom as proof of murder.
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: The coroner's inquest soon followed and the evidence of Sally's
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: heart condition carried enormous weight with it. And the conclusion
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: was that there had been no foul play or third
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: party involvement in her death was established. The murder inquiry
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: effectively ended there. Anthony had been arrested for her murder,
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: but with no basis to continue proceedings against him for
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: her death, he simply walked free.
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: Jeez, that is not okay.
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: Now, Anthony still faced consequences for what had brought officers
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: to the building in the first place. He admitted the
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: criminal damage charges involving, you know, his neighbor's property, and
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: he was charged for that offense. And on January 22nd, 2002,
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: two days after Sally was found, Anthony appeared at Highbury
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: Corner Magistrate's Court in connections with the incident. He eventually
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: pleaded guilty to criminal damages, but by then concerns were
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: also being raised about his mental health. Anthony initially remained
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: in custody before being transferred to psychiatric treatment. And in
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: March of 2002, the court dealt with the criminal damage
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: offense by making an order under Section 37 of the
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: Mental Health Act, allowing Anthony to be treated in hospital
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: for treatment rather than sent back to the community. He
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: was eventually admitted to St. Luke's Hospital in Muswell Hill,
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: North London, where staff were already familiar with a man
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: who had been receiving psychiatric services intermittently here for years.
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: But Anthony presented an unusual problem. inside the structured environment
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: of the hospital, he could appear cooperative, intelligent, and relatively stable.
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: Staff described periods in which he behaved like a model patient.
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: He participated in treatment, spoke openly with doctors, and generally
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: followed the rules. In fact, there were extended periods where
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: clinicians observed no obvious symptoms of any serious mental illness.
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: But that didn't mean they considered him harmless, though. Doctors
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: had access to to a very troubling history. There was
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: the evidence against his former wife, his alcohol abuse, previous
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: aggressive and intimidating behavior, and the 1998 rape allegations and
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: other allegations involving women. Then most recently, a woman had
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: been discovered dead inside his locked bedroom in his apartment
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: under circumstances that immediately led police to suspect murder, even
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: though her death had ultimately been ruled natural. Forensic assessments
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: even described Anthony's behavior as characterized by impulsiveness, a lack
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: of forethought about the consequences of his actions, serious irresponsible behavior,
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: an inability to learn from experience, and little concern for
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: the feelings of others. The assessment warned of a strong
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: possibility that Anthony would re-offend and could cause someone serious
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: physical or psychological harm, if he returned to the community.
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: His treating consultant, Dr. Ian Collis, was also concerned about
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: the dangers Anthony presented outside the hospital. According to accounts
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: of his treatment, Dr. Collis repeatedly warned that Anthony remained
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: capable of violence and that women, particularly involved those in
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: sex work, were at heightened risks. In fact, as many
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: as six separate warnings concerning Anthony's potential danger were recorded
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: in during his hospitalization. But beyond evaluations, there actually were
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: some incidents that unsettled staff as well. At one point,
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: Anthony reportedly had a bottle bearing the words, quote, Sally
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: Rose White, RIP, end quote. Staff were also said to
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: have been uncomfortable with female employees being alone with him. Now,
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: none of this meant Anthony was constantly psychotic or visibly unstable.
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: In fact, that was part of the difficulty, because he
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: frequently appeared calm and manageable. But that's probably because Anthony
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: wanted out. In May 2002, he challenged his detention before
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: a panel of hospital managers. Now, the attempt failed as
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: the available assessment continued to describe a man whose behavior
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: outside the controlled hospital environment could be unpredictable. particularly when
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: alcohol was involved and his detention remained in place. But
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: during the months that followed, however, Anthony was gradually allowed
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: greater freedom outside the ward. One particular serious allegation emerged
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: from this period during the summer of 2002. Apparently, while
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: Anthony was permitted outside of the hospital, a woman involved
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: in sex work accused him of raping her. Accounts of
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: the allegation describe Anthony using his considerable body weight of
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: 308 pounds to pin the woman beneath him, restricting her
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: ability to move and even to breathe. She, of course,
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: quickly reported what happened, but like before, the allegations didn't
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: result in a conviction, and therefore it remained an allegation
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: rather than an established criminal offense. Now that's, I just
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: want to say, a big pattern with Anthony, is the
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: evidence is not there to convict him.
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah. But I feel like when you have enough
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: people that are having these allegations, it's like, gosh, it sucks.
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: You want to believe them. You probably do believe them.
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: You probably should. But the problem is with the systems.
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: Evidence needs to be there. You have to have evidence
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: to connect the dots. If you don't, it's strictly hearsay
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: as far as the system's eye goes.
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: So you need that evidence.
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: And then meanwhile, you have this person out there who's
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: just continuing to do all this terrible stuff to other people.
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: Exactly. Now, I feel like we're going to be on
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: the same page with this. I feel you 100%. There's
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: so many times where he should have been locked up already,
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: but he's just getting away with it.
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he's slipping through the cracks, really.
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's frustrating. Trust me. Now, speaking of frustrating,
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: let me continue, because by autumn, the question of Anthony's
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: release returned. The hospital's clinical team continued to express their concerns,
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: and forensic mental health reports described Anthony as having a
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: personality disorder that was effectively untreatable and warned of a
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: substantial risk that he would reoffend and cause serious harm. However,
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: when the three-person panel of hospital managers met to consider
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: Anthony's detention again, Apparently that report that stated those things
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: was reportedly sitting unopened in a hospital's post room somewhere
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: else and wasn't available to them when they made their decision. Jeez.
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: So the panel concluded that Anthony no longer needed to
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: be detained under section 37. And on November 4th, 2002,
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: his compulsory detention was discharged. And on November 14th, Anthony
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: finally left the hospital. After the completed discharge process.
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: Oh, I feel like my blood is just like starting
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: to boil here.
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: I'm with you. Trust me. Now, I might argue a
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: little bit on this one today because I got to,
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: you know, tell the story and the facts and what
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: the police and investigation in the system. But I want
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: to tell you now I'm on your side. 100% everything
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: you're feeling. I'm with you.
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: I feel like the theme of this is just this
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: is not OK. It's not OK.
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: Yep. 100%. You're right.
• 26:46
  Speaker 3: Exactly. Exactly.
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: Now Anthony returned to No. 4 Heartland in Camden. The
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: apartment had been waiting for him since he was initially
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: arrested nearly 10 months earlier. Now among the women living
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: around North London at the end of 2002 was Elizabeth
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: Selina Vallad, who was 29 years old. She was born
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: in Nottingham in 1972 and was the only child of
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: Iranian professor Hassan Vallad and his British wife, Jackie. Her
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: parents separated while Elizabeth was still very young and she
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: returned to England with her mother. And by her teens,
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: the relationship had become rather difficult. Elizabeth eventually left school
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: and moved to London at around 16, where she began
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: building a life largely apart from her family. She eventually
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: became a mother herself. Her life in London changed considerably
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: over the years. And by 2002, she was struggling with
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: crack cocaine addiction and was involved in sex work. Those
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: circumstances brought her into the area around King's Cross, only
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: a short distance from Anthony's home. Now by December, Elizabeth
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: was in a relationship with a man named Neville Foster.
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: Shortly before Christmas, Neville was with Elizabeth when she told
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: him she was going to go buy a drink. Now,
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: he expected her to be gone for perhaps half an
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: hour at most, but she never returned. She disappeared on
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: the evening of December 19, 2002. And around that same period,
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: Anthony was behaving strangely. One account places him at a
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: church in the days before Christmas, wearing a key around
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: his neck. and asking people to pray for his quote,
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: immortal soul, end quote. He reportedly even told someone working
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: at the church that a female friend of his had
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: recently died. Now the comments were unusual to say the least,
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: although nobody hearing them had any way of knowing that,
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: if anything, what Anthony was referring to. There was also
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: Frances Mayhew, a 25-year-old woman whose handbag had gone missing.
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: She lost it somewhere around the city. See, during December,
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: Anthony contacted Frances and told her he had found it
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: and invited her to his apartment to come collect it. Now,
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: Frances was wary enough that she contacted police for advice
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: before going there. And rather than visit Anthony alone, she
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: traveled with someone by the recommendation of the police, not
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: going solo, right? So she had her landlady come with her,
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: who remained nearby. When Frances arrived, Anthony allegedly attempted to
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: persuade her to come inside to his apartment so he
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: could give her the bag. But she refused. Now, after
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: a moment or two of trying to convince her, he
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: eventually threw her purse towards her and then just kind
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: of gave up on whatever he had planned.
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: Good Samaritan, eh?
• 29:30
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: Now, Anthony continued contacting her after that. He clearly got
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: her contact information from, you know, trying to get her
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: purse back and kept that up, including statuses. cards and
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: letters her way. Then another woman moving through Camden that
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: December was Bridget McLennan, who was 34. Now, Bridget was
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: originally from New Zealand and was the mother of two sons.
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: Like Elizabeth, she was struggling with crack cocaine addiction and
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: involved in sex work in North London. She and Anthony
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: knew one another through that world, and by Christmas Eve,
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: their paths had crossed. At approximately 8.45 p.m. on December 24, 2002,
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: Bridget was reportedly seen arriving at Anthony's apartment at No. 4, Heartland. However,
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: after that, she was never seen alive again. Christmas, meanwhile,
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: continued and passed inside the College Place estate. Neighbors did
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: later recall unusual activity around Anthony's home during the holiday period.
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: There were reports of noises coming from inside, including drilling
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: or sawing sounds at odd hours. Other accounts described Anthony
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: keeping windows open despite the winter weather and burning large
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: amounts of incense. And at least one neighbor remembered a
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: dog becoming unusually interested in Anthony's doorway. There were observations that,
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: you know, just simply meant little at the time. Nobody
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: in the building knew quite yet, though, that two women
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: had just disappeared. Meanwhile, Anthony continued moving around the neighborhood.
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: His home was only a short walk from Royal College Street,
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: and the surrounding Camden streets as well, and communal rubbish
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: bins provided somewhere for residents to dispose of household waste,
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: while another set of bins stood short distance away on
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: Plender Street. However, with Christmas disrupting the normal routines of
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: the city, though, garbage remained uncollected for longer than usual.
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: But by the final week of December, neighbors reported seeing
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: Anthony carrying bags from his apartment. One account described him
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: moving through the estate with black bags while muttering to himself.
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: And on December 29th, CCTV cameras operating around the neighborhood
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: recorded some activity as well. It was a man wearing
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: a long dark coat and a distinctive New York Yankees
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: baseball cap. He approached a communal garbage bin on Plender Street.
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: He lifted the lid and placed the bag inside. More
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: bags were disposed in garbage containers closer to Anthony's home
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: as well, and whatever was inside them was now mixed
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: among the ordinary waste produced by hundreds of people living
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: and working around Camden during Christmas. Anthony may have expected
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: the garbage to disappear within the next simple collection date,
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: but instead, while those Christmas holidays interfered with the normal schedule,
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: leaving those bags sitting inside the bins for much longer
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: than he expected. During the night of December 29th and
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: into December 30th, Camden carried on normally. Pubs closed, streets emptied,
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: and residents returned to their homes. But sometime in the
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: early hours, at roughly 3 to 4 a.m. on Monday,
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: December 30th, a homeless man, began searching through garbage bins
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: behind a pub near Royal College Street. At first, the
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: homeless man thought he had found food when he ripped
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: open a black garbage bag. He saw what looked to
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: be a piece of meat, or maybe even fish, but
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: only moments later he realized what he was actually seeing.
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: It was that of a human leg. Soon, police were
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: called to the scene where the homeless man made the discovery,
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: and it was passed to the Metropolitan Police Homicide Assessment
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: Team at around 4 a.m. Detective Inspector Brian Hook was
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: among those sent to the scene. And inside those communal
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: garbage bins, they found black garbage bags containing portions of
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: a woman's body, including sections of the lower leg and torso.
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: And the smell of decomposition was already extremely noticeable. Now,
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: the location of the findings posed an immediate problem. There
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: wasn't an isolated crime scene. It was a public garbage bin,
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: accessible to residents, businesses, and anyone who was passing through
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: the area. Investigators couldn't have known who touched it. They
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: couldn't have known how long the bags had been there,
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: or whether other evidence had already disappeared beneath ordinary household waste. Now,
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: despite the frustrating possibilities ahead of them, authorities pressed forward,
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: and the remains were removed for examination at St. Pancras Mortuary,
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: while police began securing the area. One of the pathologists
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: involved was Dr. Freddy Patel, He was the same pathologist
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: who had examined Sally White 11 months earlier. And as
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: the remains were examined, investigators discovered something unexpected. They found
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: that the remains did not belong to just one person.
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: There were parts from at least two separate women that
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: they had discovered. And just like that, the case immediately
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: became a double murder investigation. Now, police had immediately stopped
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: all garbage collections around the estate, and established a mobile
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: police station near Royal College Street, and officers began working
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: outwards from the bin area and checked other garbage containers, drains,
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: and surrounding streets. The Regent's Canal was even searched because
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: investigators had no idea just how widely the remaining body
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: parts might have been discarded and scattered. House-to-house inquiries began
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: across the estate, and the scale grew rapidly. In fact,
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: around 80 officers were would eventually spend approximately three weeks
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: searching garbage connected to Camden, including hundreds of tons of
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: waste at landfill sites, looking for the missing remains and
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: anything that might identify the women.
• 35:27
  Speaker 2: What a job this would be.
• 35:29
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: Gosh.
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: It's a ridiculous scale.
• 35:31
  Speaker 2: Yes, and very unpleasant. Like, I couldn't imagine having to
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: be one of the people doing this.
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: Right? Now, while they're searching for this, too, another bag
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: was actually discovered.
• 35:42
  Speaker 3: Oh, wow.
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: On Plender Street, a short distance from the first scene,
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: investigators found additional human remains inside another garbage container. The
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: second disposal site was roughly 100 to 250 meters from
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: the first, depending on the route that you measured from.
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: Now detectives began concentrating on the immediate neighborhood. Detective Chief
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: Inspector Ken Bell took a leading role in the murder investigation,
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: while Commander Andy Baker oversaw the wider operation. Brian Hook
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: and the other detectives worked through CCTV footage and house-to-house information,
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: trying to identify anyone living close enough to move heavy
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: bags between the disposal sites without using a vehicle. And
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: residents repeatedly mentioned one man, Anthony Hardy. A neighbor named
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: June Gentleman remembered when officers asked whether anybody struck her
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: as suspicious, and Anthony was the only person she could
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: think of. Other residents described strange behavior, and women regularly
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: visiting the ground floor home at No. 4 Heartland. Now,
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: Anthony's name was not new to police. He was a
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: man who had Sally White dead and naked on his bed,
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: but detectives were investigating two dismembered women, now only meters
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: from Anthony's home, and they could hardly ignore the coincidence
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: at hand. But there was also physical evidence pointing in
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: the same direction. You see, during searches of the trash
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: associated with the estate, police recovered a blood-stained bra that
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: belonged to the garbage bins of Anthony's apartment. Now, a
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: CCTV camera operating on Plender Street had recorded a man
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: approaching and carrying black bags to this garbage bin, and
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: he wore a long, dark coat and distinctive New York
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: Yankees baseball cap. The footage showed him opening the bin
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: and disposing of the bags inside, and police were able
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: to identify that man as Anthony. and his apartment sat
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: almost directly between the locations where both remain sites were
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: recovered from. Officers approached number four, initially as part of
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: the house-to-house inquiry, but when they reached Anthony's ground floor apartment,
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: there was no answer, and the door was left open.
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: Officers slowly moved inside, and immediately, they noticed the smell.
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: Brian Hook remembered it immediately as being recognizable. the heavy,
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: unmistakable odor of decomposition. The further they moved inside, the
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: stronger it became. The interior itself was unusual, with drawings
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: and strange imagery covering up parts of the walls. There
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: were stacks of porno videotapes and a setup involving three
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: televisions connected to three VCR recorders. But the smell was
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: leading them towards the bedroom. And it was in the
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: same room that police had unlocked in January. This time,
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: Wet clothing had been rolled and stuffed along the bottom
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: of the bedroom door, trying to seemingly position and prevent
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: smells from coming out of underneath the door. Officers opened
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: that door, and there beside the bed was a large
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: square-shaped object wrapped tightly in a black local authority garbage
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: bag and secured with twine. Resting across the package were
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: cutting implements, including a hacksaw, and several knives, arranged so
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: conspicuously that one investigator later described the display as almost altar-like. Anthony, though,
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: was nowhere inside. Police carefully moved forward and opened the
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: black wrapping, and inside the box they found the torso
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: of a woman. So now with the woman's torso lying
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: inside Anthony's bedroom, number 4 Heartland was no longer simply
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: the home of a person of interest. It became the
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: investigation's primary forensic scene. The flat was secured and examined methodically.
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: Investigators photographed and catalogued what Anthony had left behind, and
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: in total there were roughly 70 pornographic videotapes, along with
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: three TVs and VHS recorders. There was a red deviled
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: mask hanging inside the apartment, black garbage bags, women's belongings,
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: and numerous cutting implements. Then beside the wrapped torso were
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: the hacksaw and knives officers had already seen when they
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: entered the bedroom. The cutting tools quickly became important pieces
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: of evidence, and Anthony's fingerprints were found on the frame
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: of that hacksaw. And material recovered from its blade produced
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: a mixed DNA profile. Part of that profile matched the
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: women whose torso had been discovered in Anthony's bedroom, and
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: another portion matched the remains recovered from the original garbage
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: bin site. First, however, police needed names. The torso in
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: Anthony's bedroom had cosmetic breast implants, and the investigators found
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: identifying reference numbers on the implants and traced them to
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: a clinic in Germany. The records there supplied the identity
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: of the patient as 29-year-old Elizabeth Selina Falad. DNA testing
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: provided further confirmation as well, just to be certain. And
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: Elizabeth's identification also allowed investigators to establish that some of
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: the limbs recovered from those garbage bins also belonged to her.
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: Yet despite this, her head and hands still remained missing.
• 41:09
  Speaker 1: The second DNA profile was soon checked against the national
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: database and it identified 35 year old Bridget McLennan as
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: the second victim. The two women had disappeared shortly before
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: Christmas and were now two murder victims whose remains had
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: been found scattered around Camden in the garbage.
• 41:29
  Speaker 2: Gosh, I had thought this guy was completely disgusting before
• 41:32
  Speaker 2: all of this.
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: Right? He's all kinds of nasty.
• 41:36
  Speaker 2: But I'm just like so confused too because was he
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: just wanting them to find this at this point? Or
• 41:43
  Speaker 2: he just wasn't home and doesn't lock his door and
• 41:46
  Speaker 2: they went in kind of thing?
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: From my perspective, I mean, I don't know. There's no
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: actual answer for that. I'm pretty sure he knew he
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: was about to get caught. So he probably didn't have
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: all of it discarded and wrapped it up in a
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: sick way in his apartment and ran.
• 42:03
  Speaker 3: Jeez.
• 42:05
  Speaker 2: Well, yeah. I mean, it's not like he's been doing
• 42:07
  Speaker 2: a very good job of this.
• 42:09
  Speaker 3: No.
• 42:09
  Speaker 2: So he, yeah, he's could be very aware he's about
• 42:12
  Speaker 2: to get caught, but like, oh my gosh, he's just
• 42:15
  Speaker 2: so disgusting. And But also it's again, this shit shouldn't
• 42:18
  Speaker 2: have happened.
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: It should not have happened. In fact, we're lucky that
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: a homeless man found those garbage bags.
• 42:24
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: Because if that guy was not dumpster diving, they would
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: never have been found. How many more would he have
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: killed before getting caught?
• 42:31
  Speaker 2: That's very true.
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: He would have gotten caught eventually because he was not clean.
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: He was pretty sloppy with it.
• 42:37
  Speaker 2: But like he also was expecting those bins, I think
• 42:41
  Speaker 2: you had said to be picked up, but because of
• 42:42
  Speaker 2: like the holidays and stuff, there was a bit of
• 42:44
  Speaker 2: a delay.
• 42:45
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 42:46
  Speaker 2: Holy moly.
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: So he could have gotten away with more.
• 42:52
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 42:53
  Speaker 2: It could have been like another year or so at least, right?
• 42:55
  Speaker 2: Like how many more victims would there have been?
• 42:58
  Speaker 1: Now through the investigation, police turned to the black garbage
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: bags themselves. A roll of black garbage bags were recovered
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: from Anthony's apartment. Although ordinary garbage bags might appear, you know,
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: all identical and Forensic examination could actually reveal microscopic characteristics
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: created during manufacturing to link them together. As plastic travels
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: through machinery, tiny lines and irregularities, they're produced in a sequence,
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: kind of like dragging your pencil across several pieces of
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: paper to create that sequence line across them all, right?
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: So investigators compared these features from this machinery along with,
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: you know, the areas where the individual bags had been
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: separated from the rolls. and they connected like puzzle pieces.
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: The bags containing the women's remains were found to be
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: associated with the same role as the bags recovered from
• 43:49
  Speaker 1: Anthony's apartment.
• 43:51
  Speaker 2: I love that kind of thing. Yeah. It's so minimal
• 43:54
  Speaker 2: and stuff that you would just never expect, but then
• 43:57
  Speaker 2: it's a big bingo, really.
• 43:59
  Speaker 1: Exactly. Now, that's not all, though. Anthony had also left
• 44:03
  Speaker 1: an electronic trail. Police examined activity connected to his Nectar
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: loyalty card and found a transaction showing that he had
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: purchased these garbage bags approximately two weeks before the remains
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: were discovered. Knowing where and when the purchase actually occurred
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: allowed investigators to retrieve the supermarket CCTV, and the footage
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: indeed showed Anthony as the one buying them. But there
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: was still something strange about the apartment. Dismembering two bodies
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: should have produced an enormous amount of blood. Yet when
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: investigators looked around the bedroom and bathroom, there was nothing
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: of You know, nothing around there that they could see.
• 44:42
  Speaker 1: Someone had clearly cleaned up this crime scene. Forensic officers
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: brought in luminol to try and see if they could
• 44:50
  Speaker 1: see what had been cleaned up. Now, luminol is a
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: chemical capable of reacting with traces of blood that remain
• 44:56
  Speaker 1: after visible staining has been washed away. The lights were
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: lowered and the apartment was treated. And quickly the crime
• 45:04
  Speaker 1: scene began to reappear. Large areas of the bathtub and
• 45:09
  Speaker 1: bathroom floor reacted. Blood traces appeared around the bedroom and
• 45:13
  Speaker 1: on the doorway, where staining seemed to have been wiped away.
• 45:17
  Speaker 1: Patterns extended between the rooms and were consistent with bloody
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: bodies or objects at the very least having been moved
• 45:24
  Speaker 1: and dragged through the apartment. Investigators concluded that substantial quantities
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: of blood had once been present despite Anthony's efforts to
• 45:34
  Speaker 1: remove and clean away the visible evidence. Ultimately, though, the
• 45:40
  Speaker 1: blood and its distribution helped police reconstruct what had happened
• 45:44
  Speaker 1: inside that No. 4 apartment. The available evidence indicated that
• 45:48
  Speaker 1: Elizabeth and Bridget had been killed in the bedroom before
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: their bodies were moved towards the bathroom. The bathtub then
• 45:55
  Speaker 1: provided Anthony with a contained area in which the bodies
• 45:58
  Speaker 1: could be cut apart, where the blood could be washed
• 46:01
  Speaker 1: down the drain, and then the surrounding areas could be cleaned.
• 46:06
  Speaker 1: Police had the remains of Elizabeth and Bridget. They had
• 46:09
  Speaker 1: parts of Elizabeth's body inside Anthony's bedroom. They had the
• 46:12
  Speaker 1: hacksaw bearing Anthony's fingerprints and DNA connecting the victims. They
• 46:16
  Speaker 1: had the garbage bags, the loyalty card transactions, supermarket footage
• 46:20
  Speaker 1: showing Anthony purchasing the bags and surveillance footage showing him
• 46:24
  Speaker 1: disposing at at least one disposal site. And now the
• 46:27
  Speaker 1: luminol had revealed what somebody had tried to wash away.
• 46:32
  Speaker 1: The bedroom was And the bathroom had contained extensive amounts
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: of blood. Yet one crucial piece of the investigation was
• 46:39
  Speaker 1: still missing at this point. And that was Anthony himself.
• 46:44
  Speaker 1: And looking into his history, there was one detail in
• 46:47
  Speaker 1: his medical records that offered police a way to predict
• 46:50
  Speaker 1: his potential movements. You see, Anthony was diabetic and depended
• 46:54
  Speaker 1: on medication. He had disappeared without enough of it remaining
• 46:58
  Speaker 1: to stay away indefinitely. So investigators alerted hospitals and other
• 47:04
  Speaker 1: medical facilities across London. If Anthony needed treatment or a
• 47:08
  Speaker 1: new prescription, there was a chance he would eventually have
• 47:11
  Speaker 1: to reveal himself. And that chance came rather quickly. On
• 47:17
  Speaker 1: New Year's Day, January 1st, 2003, staff at the University
• 47:22
  Speaker 1: College Hospital reported that a man resembling Anthony had showed
• 47:26
  Speaker 1: up seeking medication. Investigators obtained the hospital's CCTV footage and
• 47:31
  Speaker 1: confirmed it was indeed Anthony. He had changed his appearance, though,
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: by shaving off his beard, but he was still recognizable. However,
• 47:41
  Speaker 1: by the time police knew that he was there, he
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: had already left. His photo was taken from the security
• 47:47
  Speaker 1: footage and released to the public, and he appeared prominently
• 47:51
  Speaker 1: in the following day's newspaper. Then on January 2nd, Anthony
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: surfaced again. this time at Great Ormond Street Hospital. An
• 48:00
  Speaker 1: off-duty police officer was there with his son when Anthony
• 48:05
  Speaker 1: showed up and he recognized him. The officer alerted hospital
• 48:09
  Speaker 1: security and called for assistance while keeping track of him.
• 48:13
  Speaker 1: Soon officers showed up at the scene and they moved
• 48:17
  Speaker 1: in for the arrest. But Anthony didn't go quietly. He
• 48:21
  Speaker 1: resisted and a violent struggle occurred. He even pulled out
• 48:25
  Speaker 1: a small pocket knife and one officer suffered an injury
• 48:28
  Speaker 1: to his hand while another sustained serious facial injuries around
• 48:31
  Speaker 1: the eye and cheek as a result. Despite his resistance, though,
• 48:35
  Speaker 1: the officers managed to overpay and he was taken to
• 48:38
  Speaker 1: Collindale Police Station. Now, at this point, investigators had already
• 48:45
  Speaker 1: assembled an extraordinary amount of physical evidence from Anthony's home
• 48:49
  Speaker 1: and the disposal sites. But one more piece of evidence
• 48:52
  Speaker 1: was about to arrive. See, while Anthony had been on
• 48:55
  Speaker 1: the run, he had left two rolls of film at
• 48:58
  Speaker 1: a commercial photographic studio sent out for development. But rather
• 49:03
  Speaker 1: than return for them himself, he gave the collection receipt
• 49:06
  Speaker 1: to a friend and asked him to pick up the
• 49:09
  Speaker 1: finished photos for him. Well, the friend did, but the
• 49:13
  Speaker 1: friend also looked at the photos, and what he saw
• 49:16
  Speaker 1: prompted him to contact the police immediately. There were 44
• 49:21
  Speaker 1: photos in total. And they showed Elizabeth Vlad and Bridget
• 49:25
  Speaker 1: McLennan inside Anthony's bedroom. They were both dead. In the images,
• 49:31
  Speaker 1: they were naked and arranged in sexually explicit poses. Their
• 49:35
  Speaker 1: faces were obscured in some images by objects, including the
• 49:39
  Speaker 1: red deviled mask that was found inside his home. Also,
• 49:43
  Speaker 1: the New York Yankees baseball cap as well. A pathologist
• 49:47
  Speaker 1: examined the positioning of the women's bodies and confirmed that
• 49:50
  Speaker 1: both were in fact already dead when the photos were taken.
• 49:54
  Speaker 1: Investigators checked the photo studio where the images were developed.
• 49:57
  Speaker 1: CCTV and the receipt all established that Anthony had brought
• 50:01
  Speaker 1: the film in for processing. Then they examined the negatives.
• 50:06
  Speaker 1: Film passing through a camera can acquire minute scratches and
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: markings from the internal mechanism, just very much so like
• 50:13
  Speaker 1: those garbage bags from their production. Anthony's camera had been
• 50:19
  Speaker 1: recovered from No. 4 Heartland, and specialists compared the marks
• 50:22
  Speaker 1: on the test film and passed it through those cameras
• 50:25
  Speaker 1: and found the exact negatives containing those photographs of Elizabeth
• 50:29
  Speaker 1: and Bridget matched the camera markings.
• 50:31
  Speaker 2: Okay, holy flying shit here. Does the developer I always
• 50:37
  Speaker 2: in my mind felt like developers would look at the photos.
• 50:41
  Speaker 1: I don't think they do, typically.
• 50:43
  Speaker 3: Huh.
• 50:44
  Speaker 1: Especially, I mean.
• 50:45
  Speaker 2: Because yeah, if that gets just printed and like available
• 50:50
  Speaker 2: for pickup and not flagged at all, you know, at
• 50:53
  Speaker 2: the shop itself.
• 50:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And I think maybe like nowadays it's much more
• 50:57
  Speaker 1: likely for them to look at it. But back then
• 50:59
  Speaker 1: when film was the primary source of photos, you have
• 51:03
  Speaker 1: photos constantly going out. They probably take the roll, put
• 51:07
  Speaker 1: it on like the computer or whatever, hit print and
• 51:10
  Speaker 1: on to the next one. The stack comes shooting out
• 51:11
  Speaker 1: and they simply package it.
• 51:13
  Speaker 2: It's like an automatic type thing.
• 51:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 51:15
  Speaker 4: Huh.
• 51:16
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 51:16
  Speaker 1: I mean, how many photos do you see in a
• 51:18
  Speaker 1: day in a printing place like that?
• 51:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 51:20
  Speaker 1: You know, constant photo, photo, photo. I can't imagine you're
• 51:24
  Speaker 1: sitting here examining everyone's photos. You take the stack, you
• 51:27
  Speaker 1: wrap it up, you get it printed, done.
• 51:29
  Speaker 2: Well, this is helpful to me because I've printed some
• 51:31
  Speaker 2: weird shit before and I've always been like kind of
• 51:34
  Speaker 2: leery about it.
• 51:35
  Speaker 1: You haven't printed that weird. You've done like boudoir sessions.
• 51:40
  Speaker 3: Well, yeah.
• 51:40
  Speaker 2: And then I had to print like our Halloween shoot
• 51:44
  Speaker 2: that one time where we have like the body.
• 51:46
  Speaker 1: That's true. That's true.
• 51:48
  Speaker 2: And I was just so, I don't know, leery or
• 51:51
  Speaker 2: like uncomfortable about it, but maybe it's fine then.
• 51:54
  Speaker 1: But that's the plight of someone like a photographer like you.
• 51:57
  Speaker 1: You're going to take photos like that. Someone like this
• 52:00
  Speaker 1: isn't generally going to take weird ass photos, but I digress.
• 52:04
  Speaker 1: Now the photos had indeed, and indeed, sorry, been taken
• 52:07
  Speaker 1: on Anthony's camera. Now the Yankees cap created another chain
• 52:10
  Speaker 1: of events too, because As we know, Anthony appeared wearing
• 52:13
  Speaker 1: it in CCTV footage and the cap appeared in the
• 52:16
  Speaker 1: photos with the women's body too. There were even reports
• 52:20
  Speaker 1: that state forensic testing was allegedly done on that hat
• 52:23
  Speaker 1: and recovered DNA from Anthony and the victims as well.
• 52:27
  Speaker 1: Either way though, detectives now confronted Anthony with everything that
• 52:30
  Speaker 1: they had. During formal interviews, Anthony had legal representation and
• 52:34
  Speaker 1: repeatedly exercised his right not to answer any questions. Investigator
• 52:40
  Speaker 1: Alan Bostock was among those questioning him. They showed Anthony
• 52:44
  Speaker 1: the images of his own bedroom. Do you recognize this bedroom?
• 52:49
  Speaker 1: They asked him. No comment. Detectives moved to another photograph
• 52:54
  Speaker 1: showing one of the women. Quote, What have we got
• 52:57
  Speaker 1: on this lady's head, Mr. Hardy? What can you see?
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: End quote. Again, no comment. They pointed out the baseball cap.
• 53:07
  Speaker 1: His baseball cap. Anthony maintained the same response as the
• 53:11
  Speaker 1: detectives questioned him about the garbage bins, the remains, his apartments,
• 53:14
  Speaker 1: the photos, you name it. Police also wanted to know
• 53:18
  Speaker 1: what he had done with parts of Elizabeth and Bridget
• 53:21
  Speaker 1: that they still had yet to find. Their heads and
• 53:24
  Speaker 1: their hands. They repeatedly pressed Anthony to tell police where
• 53:29
  Speaker 1: they were, so they could be recovered and returned to
• 53:31
  Speaker 1: their families for proper burial. And at one point, Anthony
• 53:35
  Speaker 1: reportedly told them, in his words too effective that, He
• 53:39
  Speaker 1: was sorry, but he couldn't remember because he had been
• 53:40
  Speaker 1: so drunk. But when questioned formally about it again, his
• 53:45
  Speaker 1: answer returned to the familiar response of no comment. Now,
• 53:50
  Speaker 1: all of this raised another question because 11 months earlier,
• 53:54
  Speaker 1: another woman had been found dead in that very same bedroom.
• 53:58
  Speaker 1: Sally White had been naked on Anthony's bed. Her injuries
• 54:03
  Speaker 1: on her head and body and the blood around her
• 54:05
  Speaker 1: Anthony had been arrested on suspicion of murdering her only
• 54:08
  Speaker 1: for the post-mortem to determine that she died of natural
• 54:12
  Speaker 1: causes of heart failure and heart attack. So with Elizabeth
• 54:17
  Speaker 1: and Bridget now dead, detectives opened Sally White's file once
• 54:19
  Speaker 1: again and returned to the circumstances of January 20, 2002.
• 54:25
  Speaker 1: Sally's body had been found naked behind Anthony's locked door.
• 54:30
  Speaker 1: Anthony lied about having access to that room. She had injuries.
• 54:34
  Speaker 1: There was a bucket of warm water. And none of
• 54:36
  Speaker 1: these details had disappeared from the file simply because her
• 54:39
  Speaker 1: death had been attributed to heart disease. Detectives also began
• 54:43
  Speaker 1: speaking with other women who encountered Anthony sexually. Their accounts
• 54:48
  Speaker 1: revealed a very disturbing pattern. Women described Anthony using his
• 54:52
  Speaker 1: considerable size to pin them beneath him, over 300 pounds.
• 54:57
  Speaker 1: One woman said she was unable to move, speak, or
• 55:00
  Speaker 1: breathe while Anthony pressed his weight onto her and she
• 55:03
  Speaker 1: said she believed he enjoyed her distress. So investigators began
• 55:09
  Speaker 1: considering whether Sally could have died through positional or crush asphyxia,
• 55:14
  Speaker 1: with pressure from Anthony's body restricting her breathing. The medical evidence, however,
• 55:19
  Speaker 1: remains complicated. The original post-mortem by Dr. Freddie Patel had
• 55:24
  Speaker 1: found significant coronary disease and concluded that Sally died from
• 55:28
  Speaker 1: a heart attack. But even after Anthony's later murders were discovered,
• 55:33
  Speaker 1: DCI Ken Bell publicly acknowledged that the ordinary medical conclusion
• 55:38
  Speaker 1: had been clear enough that police could not have justified
• 55:41
  Speaker 1: prosecuting Anthony at the time. But Sally's death was now
• 55:45
  Speaker 1: being viewed in an entirely different context. The original finding
• 55:49
  Speaker 1: that she had died from a heart attack came under
• 55:52
  Speaker 1: renewed scrutiny, partly because the possibility of asphyxiation had not
• 55:56
  Speaker 1: been adequately considered. Exactly how Anthony killed Sally remains was
• 56:01
  Speaker 1: never conclusively established through pathology, although suffocation or asphyxiation has
• 56:06
  Speaker 1: been suggested as the likely mechanism. What was no longer
• 56:10
  Speaker 1: in doubt, though, was that her death was not simply
• 56:13
  Speaker 1: a natural one, and Anthony was charged with murdering Sally White,
• 56:18
  Speaker 1: Elizabeth Vallad, and Bridget McLennan.
• 56:22
  Speaker 2: That is really such a shame, though.
• 56:25
  Speaker 4: I know.
• 56:26
  Speaker 2: Because right there, it was just like a giant red flag.
• 56:29
  Speaker 2: But I.
• 56:31
  Speaker 2: I mean, I guess there was just nothing they could
• 56:33
  Speaker 2: really do.
• 56:33
  Speaker 1: Well, and that's the problem. There was nothing that they
• 56:39
  Speaker 1: could point to. No evidence. There was unfortunately nothing. You
• 56:44
  Speaker 1: have a pathologist, even a second opinion on another pathologist, saying, well,
• 56:49
  Speaker 1: heart disease.
• 56:50
  Speaker 2: It sits so uneasy, though.
• 56:52
  Speaker 3: It does.
• 56:52
  Speaker 1: It really does.
• 56:53
  Speaker 2: Two more victims within a year, really.
• 56:56
  Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.
• 56:57
  Speaker 1: Now, for months, Anthony just denied any sort of responsibility.
• 57:01
  Speaker 1: And on November 25th, 2003, he appeared at the Old
• 57:04
  Speaker 1: Bailey Central Criminal Court and unexpectedly changed his pleas. He
• 57:10
  Speaker 1: pleaded guilty to murdering Elizabeth. He pleaded guilty to murdering Bridget.
• 57:16
  Speaker 1: And he pleaded guilty to murdering Sally. The pleas meant
• 57:21
  Speaker 1: there would be no full murder trial in which every
• 57:23
  Speaker 1: piece of evidence was tested before a jury. Instead, prosecutors
• 57:27
  Speaker 1: outlined what they believed happened inside Anthony's apartment. Prosecutor Richard
• 57:32
  Speaker 1: Horwell argued that Anthony had developed an obsession with pornography
• 57:36
  Speaker 1: and dominating women, and that Elizabeth and Bridget had been
• 57:39
  Speaker 1: killed so Anthony could photograph their bodies in sexually explicit
• 57:43
  Speaker 1: positions after they died. Anthony's defense offered a different explanation.
• 57:48
  Speaker 1: Anthony accepted that Excessive force had been used during what
• 57:52
  Speaker 1: the defense characterized as consensual extreme sexual activity, but maintained
• 57:57
  Speaker 1: that he had not intended to kill the women. But
• 58:01
  Speaker 1: his guilty pleas nevertheless legally established his responsibility for all
• 58:06
  Speaker 1: three murders. And so Mr. Justice Keith sentenced Anthony to
• 58:11
  Speaker 1: three life sentences, one for each murder. However, no minimum
• 58:16
  Speaker 1: term was set at the time. And the changes to
• 58:19
  Speaker 1: the law later required prisoners sentenced under the previous system
• 58:23
  Speaker 1: to have their minimum terms determined by a judge. Anthony's case, therefore,
• 58:27
  Speaker 1: returned to court. And on May 14th, 2010, Mr. Justice
• 58:31
  Speaker 1: Keith imposed a whole life order, meaning Anthony would never
• 58:37
  Speaker 1: be eligible for release on parole.
• 58:40
  Speaker 2: Oh my gosh. Thank goodness. I was holding my breath there.
• 58:44
  Speaker 2: I was like, I'm about to just get completely pissed off,
• 58:47
  Speaker 2: aren't I?
• 58:48
  Speaker 1: If things changed, yeah, but it didn't, thankfully. Yes. Now,
• 58:52
  Speaker 1: questions also remained about how Anthony had been handled by
• 58:55
  Speaker 1: the health system, the mental health system, before these murders occurred.
• 59:00
  Speaker 1: An independent inquiry examined the psychiatric treatment and the decision
• 59:03
  Speaker 1: to release him from the compulsory detention on November 2002
• 59:07
  Speaker 1: was all assessed. and under scrutiny, despite earlier warnings saying
• 59:14
  Speaker 1: he was at serious risk. Now, the case of Sally
• 59:17
  Speaker 1: White also continued to follow Dr. Freddie Patel, who was
• 59:20
  Speaker 1: the forensic pathologist who conducted Sally White's post-mortem and concluded
• 59:24
  Speaker 1: that she died naturally from a heart attack. His professional conduct...
• 59:28
  Speaker 1: in a number of cases came under scrutiny. And in
• 59:31
  Speaker 1: August 2012, he was eventually struck of his medical register. Now,
• 59:37
  Speaker 1: as for Anthony, he remained in prison for the rest
• 59:40
  Speaker 1: of his life. He died in November of 2020 behind
• 59:43
  Speaker 1: bars at the age of 69 after contracting COVID-19. His
• 59:48
  Speaker 1: condition deteriorated into COVID-19 pneumonia, which the coroner accepted as
• 59:53
  Speaker 1: his cause of death. But it is worth to note
• 59:55
  Speaker 1: that he also had type 2 diabetes and heart failure,
• 59:59
  Speaker 1: which contributed to his vulnerability, but were not the primary causes.
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 1: In the end, though, three guilty pleas did not necessarily
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 1: answer every question investigators had about Anthony. You see, one
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 1: name examined in connection with Anthony was Zoe Parker, a
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 1: 24-year-old woman who was involved in sex work, who was
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 1: also found dismembered and recovered from the River Thames in
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 1: December of 2000. Her head, hands, and feet were missing.
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 1: The similarities attracted attention, but no evidence sufficient enough to
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 1: charge Anthony with her murder was ever established. Later, criminologist
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 1: David Wilson also suggested Anthony might warrant examination in connection
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 1: with the unsolved deaths of Sharon Hoare in 1991 and
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 1: Christine McGovern in 1995, but those suggestions remained theories and
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 1: not established links. Investigators themselves remain suspicious that three murders
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 1: might not represent the full extent of Anthony's violence. Many
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 1: law enforcement believe that there could be many more victims.
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 1: In the end, we do know that Anthony was responsible
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 1: for three, though. Sally White, Elizabeth Vlad, and Bridget McClennan.
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 1: And despite the enormous searches through Camden's rubbish system, landfill waste,
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 1: and waterways, and surrounding streets, police never recovered the heads
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 1: or hands of Elizabeth McClennan. or Bridget. Anthony knew what
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 1: he had done with them, or at least one point,
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 1: if you believe his claim of being blackout drunk. But
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 1: either way, he died without telling anyone where they were.
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 1: And that's the story of the Camden Ripper.
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 2: Hmm. Nasty.
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 1: Nasty ass bitch for show.
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 2: So terrible.
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 1: He grossed me out researching this one.
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 2: He is gross. Like, disgusting. And it kind of, that
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 2: sort of makes sense now. He was so kind of
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 2: willing really to plead guilty on the three because there's
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 2: probably fracking how many more?
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 1: Probably. And he might've been afraid of what could have
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 1: been found, you know, especially if this evidence came forward
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 1: in court and, you know.
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 2: Wow. And the, oh, and like the deaths were just terrible.
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 2: Oh my gosh. No one, no one deserves this. Holy shit.
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 2: This guy is just, yeah.
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 2: He's one of the most nasty ones I think we've covered.
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 1: He's grotesque. Imagine being smothered to death by someone's weight.
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 2: God damn. God damn. Yeah. I really don't want that
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 2: in my head anymore. And I don't know how to
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 2: get it out.
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, picture that for the rest of the day.
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 2: Thanks. You're welcome. Maybe you should give me something else
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 2: to picture.
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 1: The fog has cleared up. It might be a nice
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 1: sunny fall day today.
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 2: I think it will be, yeah.
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 1: Maybe I'll go golfing. Picture me out on the golf
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 1: course getting a hole in one. How's that sound?
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 2: Honey knows we're wrapping up too and she just stood
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 2: up and stretched and she's like, oh, they're done.
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 1: Well, Ripley's still waiting for the words, the words to
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 1: release her so she can get up from her bed.
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 1: So I guess maybe we should get to that. But first,
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 1: just a quick thank you. You guys are amazing. We
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 1: get to do this because of you. We're an independent podcast, written, researched, host,
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 1: all on our own. And like I said, it's because
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 1: of you we get to keep going. If you want
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 1: to check the description of this podcast for more links,
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 1: for our socials, all that sort of stuff, feel free.
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 1: But I just want to say thank you.
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you for being here. How did it feel
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 2: doing that with Honey staring at you the whole time?
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 2: Was that fine?
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 1: The eye contact was really locked in. Just got to
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 1: say that.
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 2: Until next time.
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 1: Stay wicked.
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 4: © transcript Emily Beynon
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 3: Thank you.