Latest / Beyond Labels Premium / Episode #238: Joel Salatin on the Future of Farming with Lasers & Robots

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Episode #238: Joel Salatin on the Future of Farming with Lasers & Robots · Beyond Labels Premium

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_02: We don't want more research.
• 0:01
  SPEAKER_02: Like, stop spending our money on the research.
• 0:03
  SPEAKER_01: The goal, if you really want soil building regenerative agriculture, is to figure out cropping systems.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_01: Let's spin it on solutions if you're gonna take our money.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_01: That never use herbicide and don't kill clothing of the soil and never expose the soil to the Hello everyone.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to another Beyond Labels podcast with myself.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_01: I would be Joel Salatin, the farmer.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_01: I'm still trying to trying to get acquainted with myself.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_01: And our favorite researcher, Dr.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_01: Cena McCullough.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_01: And today we're gonna bring some more current event stuff.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_01: We're realizing very much that this um this kind of cutting edge where we are in food and farming.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um that everything's moving fast right now with all the things that are going on.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_01: And um before we get into that, though, we want to just make everybody aware that June 12 to 13 is going to be our two days of truth summit here at Polyface Farm.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_01: And um we are very, very reachable.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_01: Uh we are eight hours from half of the U.S.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_01: population.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_01: So there's no excuse for not coming for the Two Days of Truth summit.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm gonna I'm gonna let Cena uh describe a little more of what's gonna happen there, and um we hope that you'll uh start thinking about joining us on June 12 to 13 at here at Polyface.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, thanks, Joel.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_02: I am so excited.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_02: This is my favorite event.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_02: There's nothing like an in-person event.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_02: You know, the energy that you feel, the connectivity that you feel, it always energizes me every single time we do this.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_02: We have an all-star lineup.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_02: We have Dr.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_02: Eric Berg, who is a leading expert in holistic health and nutrition.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_02: Dr.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_02: Alexis Cowan, she's a pioneer in integrating quantum light biology, nutrition, and mitochondrial health to increase wellness and longevity.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_02: And we have the famous Jeffrey Smith, right?
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_02: One of the first advocates and authors against um GMOs.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and of course, you and me.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_02: And we have Hilda, holistic Hilda, who's coming to join us, and two newcomers to our platform, Dr.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_02: Scott Jackson and Dr.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_02: Lee Frame.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_02: They are both internationally recognized as experts in the microbiome testing and probiotics.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_02: Um, Dr.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_02: Frame actually was named one of the top 100 healthcare leaders in the entire world.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_02: So, this is a real, real powerful lineup that we've got going on.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_02: We have um it's two days of truth.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_02: We have two days of sharing in um trying to basically restore our health and our freedoms that we've lost.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_02: We've got a farm tour.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_02: Uh you do a brand new farm tour for us every single summit that we host.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_02: So we got a new new farm tour.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_01: We've got we'll do our best to try to make it make sure you can drink out of the stock tank with the cows.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_01: Out of the uh the cow tank.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_01: We always have to do that.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_01: And Cena, this year we have a brand new, like quadruple-sized kitchen.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_01: So uh everybody can see the new kitchen.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's pretty uh it's pretty amazing.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_01: That's been our massive project this winter.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_01: It looks like it'll be done uh by by April 1st.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_01: And um it's it's gonna be it's gonna be good.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_01: So we will feed it, looks, it's worth coming just for the food.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_01: So just so just just come right on.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we have farm fresh breakfast and lunch for both days.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, can you imagine?
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_02: Like you get nurtured while you're there.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_02: Um we have a special VIP dinner going on Thursday night, the night before the summit begins.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_02: And this year, we're doing something really special.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_02: The first night of the summit, we're doing a fireside hot dog and music roast right there at Polyface together.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_02: So we're gonna, it's very relaxed.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_02: We're gonna have music playing, we're gonna have hot dogs and salads and whatnot.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_02: Saturday, there's an optional sunrise stroll with Joel on the farm.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and again, there's activities um during the breaks, and there's plenty of breaks to socialize as well.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's just gonna be a fantastic time.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_02: So we'd love for you guys to join us.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_01: Great.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks, Zina.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for and and and thank you for all the work that you've done to put the legwork into leveraging your contacts to get us some of the most world-class uh leaders in in the um in the health and alternative health movement.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_01: So last time we we kind of drilled down on the whole glyphosate issue uh with the executive order, RFK Jr.'s um interview with on the Joe Rogan podcast.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_01: Basically, um I'm just gonna call it Maha triage to try to you know placate the base that is is um a little bit fractured because of the because of the um endorsement of the glyphosate national security executive order from President Trump.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_01: So today we wanna we want to zero in a little bit on um on some of the solutions or some of the non-glyphosate things that RFK Jr.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_01: mentioned in the Joe Rogan podcast and up to her uh normal good trick good tricks.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_01: Cena's been uh digging into this, researching it, and um and has, I think, some really neat uh stuff for us.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_01: And I'll be I'll be uh jumping in as a farmer.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_01: Uh what do we really need?
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_01: How does this actually work uh as we go along?
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_01: So Cena, uh it's all yours.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_02: Awesome.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so Kennedy expanded a little bit on the Joe Rogan show when he was talking about the glyphosate executive order.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_02: He called it a temporary fix.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, it's so it's not a permanent thing, it's a temporary fix.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_02: He has said that um the so the USDA um and HHS and the EPA have just announced over$1 billion in investments um and a plan to accelerate progress on farm modernization and long-term food supply security.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_02: Part of that billion dollars goes towards studying impacts of glyphosate and other chem other chemicals on humans, which, okay, just the quick note I get so frustrated when they just keep putting more money toward researching things.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_02: Like we have so much research out there, even independent studies.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_02: There's so much there.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_02: Number one, it's a waste of our tax dollars, you know, to research something we already know.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_02: But number two, I think it's just a way to say it's almost an excuse, you know, and that might be a strong word, but you're saying, okay, we recognize there's a problem, but we need some more research before we can do something about it.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_02: Like, yeah, we don't want more research.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_02: Like, stop spending our money on the research.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_02: Let's spin it on solutions if you're gonna take our money, you know?
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_02: So I think that it's just like kicking it down the road.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_02: They're not getting in front of it and saying, just like they did with saturated fat and keeping the cap, right?
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_02: It's there.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_02: We know it's there, just implement it, right?
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_02: So, my little rant aside, the the other part of this uh money is supposed to go toward developing new technologies to try to decrease the amount of chemicals that are used in agriculture.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_02: So, what if you look at this new$1 billion initiative, it says the HHS is going to spend$100 million for advanced research projects agency to identify new and innovative and cost-effective technologies such as electrothermal and electrical weeding technologies, robotic weeding systems, precision mechanical weed control, thermal weed control, and then biological and non-toxic herbicides.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_02: So Kennedy said on the Rogan show that the solution to get off pesticides and herbicides is lasers.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_02: So it's out in the open.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_02: He said that um lasers are the cheapest way to control weeds in vegetable fields, and we're going to see, quote, a very quick transition onto lasers.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_02: So he mentioned that the new there's so this is the technology that he said is going to allow us to get off pesticides and herbicides.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_02: He said there's already lots of robotic farming that's happening, um, which is true.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_02: I looked that up.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_02: Even some organic farmers are using robots and lasers and um drones.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_02: Um and he's saying that we have these laser programs that right now are being pulled, uh dragged by a tractor, but soon they're going to be using the lasers on drones.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_02: And he said Trump wants to accelerate this transition because we can't allow foreign interference, i.e.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_02: China, in our food supply.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and it's not just weeds, it's bugs.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_02: The bugs will get zapped with lasers too.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_02: So before we dive into your thoughts, let me just um explain a little bit about how the laser works, just so everyone's up to speed and you can visualize this.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_02: And by the way, it's all over the internet now.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_02: And they all they have videos where you can watch these tractors pulling these lasers.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's it looks like you're in some sci-fi movie, like somebody created that video on AI, you know, and is putting that out there like as a spoof, but it's a real thing.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_02: So they're calling this precision lasers and lasers in agriculture.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_02: Um, there's one that's called uh laser weeders, and it says it works by combining high-speed computer vision with thermal energy to physically obliterate the weeds without touching the soil or the crop.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_02: So there's four distinct stages, and I'm just gonna go through them real quickly.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_02: They it all occurs in a fraction of a second as the machine moves through the field.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_02: So again, you can see the videos, the tractor is pulling this machine behind it.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_02: First, you have the high-speed vision.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_02: This is called the eye.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_02: As the tractor pulls this laser, there's actually a bank of high-resolution cameras that are scanning the ground.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_02: They capture thousands of images per second, and they're using these specialized lighting to eliminate shadows.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so that way the AI can see every leaf clearly, even at a high speed.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_02: Then there's the second component is the AI identification.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_02: This is the brain component.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_02: So these images that are captured are instantly fed into this onboard supercomputer.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_02: And this is where the AI deep learning model um comes in.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_02: So it's been trained on millions of images to distinguish a crop like a carrot or an onion from a from a quote-unquote weed.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_02: So it doesn't just look for green, it's very specific.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_02: It can actually identify the specific leaf patterns and the growth structures of hundreds of species.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_02: And I want to come back to that in just a minute.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_02: The third component is the meristem targeting.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_02: So this is what they call the lock.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_02: So once the system identifies the weed, the AI in real time will calculate the coordinates of the location of the meristem, which is the brain of the plant.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_02: And it's located usually near the center of the growth point.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_02: So it's targeting just that spot.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_02: So if you if because like if you just burnt a leaf, for example, then the weed might still survive.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_02: So it targets the meristem to ensure that the plant can't regenerate itself.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_02: So the fourth step is the strike.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_02: This is the thermal destruction.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_02: And I can't believe I'm explaining this.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I I can't believe this is like you know what I mean?
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_02: This sounds so sci-fi to me.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_02: So the system fires a laser at that exact coordinate.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_02: And oftentimes it fires a CO2 laser.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_02: So it's delivering this concentrated burst of thermal energy that instantly boils the water inside the weeds cell, causing it to explode.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_02: Um, the laser is actually made up of it's a gas laser, it's a mixture of carbon dioxide, nitrogen, and helium to create this beam of light.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_02: So the literally it just explodes instantly.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_02: Um, they're claiming that the beam is only about two millimeters to five millimeters wide, so it can zap the weed.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_02: Um and in the weed can be less than a centimeter away from like a fragile onion seedling without damaging the crop.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_02: Like, wow.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_02: This is this is so crazy.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_02: So um if do you want to chime in on that before I go into my capture part?
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_01: No, no, I'm I'm uh I'm I mean you you you can see how it would work.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_01: I mean it's it's it certainly is a uh you know is something you can see how it would work.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um I'll hold my I'll hold my you know other other things.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_01: It it's it it just shows that we're um we're still stuck in a mechanical techno um like techno spiral on everything.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_01: But I'll I'll be glad for you to yeah, go ahead.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_02: Uh give us Okay, let me finish the technical part and then chime in.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm thinking about this AI component, and I thought, oh, you know, that sounds a lot like these apps we have on our phones now that can I, you know, you can scan a plant and help it help you identify a plant.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_02: So I started looking into it, and um, you know, CAPTCHA, right?
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_02: The completely automated public um um churning tests.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_02: So um most people may not be familiar with the word captcha, but that's like if you're on a website and it's trying to identify if you're a human or if you're a bot.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_02: Oh and so you have to like click the boxes.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_02: It will say like, click uh boxes that show a bicycle or click boxes that show a crosswalk, right?
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_02: Have you ever seen those?
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah on the website?
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so that's a captcha.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_02: So um what I learned is that we're not just providing proving, we're not just proving that we're a robot, that we're not a robot when we go to these websites.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_02: We're when you when you um consent to using that captcha, you're actually building the brains of the machines that are now going to take over our farms.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_02: So this development of this precision agriculture lasers um was actually built upon, in part, kind of on our unpaid labor of millions of internet users.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_02: So we have been working as this global workforce providing what they call the label data, it's like truth data that's been needed to train machine learning models.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_02: So I to me, this was a real wake-up moment because a lot of people can are against AI, and you know, there's all these stories about AI, like the data centers being linked to cancer clusters, um, the data centers being harmful to health, linked to um respiratory issues, you know, asthma, having this negative impact on the environment, for example.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_02: And many people don't realize that we've unknowingly, in many ways, contributed to um propelling this machine learning forward.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_02: So it used to be that like you would select squares with traffic lights and then bicycles and crosswalks, and every single one of our clicks was giving the machine a data point.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_02: It was teaching the computer vision AI how to identify objects when they're cluttered or real world environment.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, have you have you ever done a CAPTCHA where it looks like the words are a little bit blurred sometimes or like misaligned, and then it's like type in the letters that you see here, right?
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_02: So part of that has been um, let's say scan documents sometimes that AI could not identify on its own.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_02: So we as humans were teaching the AI how to actually figure out um these scan documents.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_02: So we have been part of um creating this technology.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_02: And the one thing that I found a little bit disturbing, more than that, um is that as the technology has evolved, evolved, the interaction has moved from our active participation, right?
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_02: Like so us clicking those boxes, we're actively consenting to building that learning model, to building AI.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_02: But now the technology is so smart that it's moved from active participation to passive monitoring of us.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_02: So modern AI can now quote unquote read our physical identity through our computer mouse dynamics.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_02: So it can it can tell if you're um like we each have our own what they call like a behavioral fingerprint based on how we move the cursor.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_02: So we have micro jitters, for example, different acceleration patterns, we have unique hesitations when we navigate on a screen.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_02: AI is now so advanced that it can identify you as an individual based on those movements with up to 95% accuracy.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, isn't that it's it's a little bit scary?
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_01: So so Cena, the boxes that we're checking, yeah.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_01: I I mean, you know, I'm I'm a Luddite, I don't even have a smartphone, but I have seen what you're talking about.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_01: Why is it that a human, a human can check those boxes and a robot can't?
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_02: Uh well, so the robot has to learn, right?
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_02: That's why it's called machine learning.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_02: And so to learn something, it needs like hundreds of thousands, up to millions of different types of photos for it to be precise.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_02: You know, um, they're trying to create AI to be um to have extreme precision, just like they need it in this agricultural application.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_02: You need that laser to be precise.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_02: To do that, you have to feed it, like we said, millions of different photos and tell it what what's truth.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_02: That's why it's called truth data.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_02: You have to say, yes, this is a weed.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_02: No, that is not a weed.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_02: Like, yes, this is this is corn, it is not a weed.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_02: This is an onion, this is not a weed, this is a weed, this is a weed, this is a weed.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_02: And you have to tell it over and over and over again for it to be able to become precise.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_02: Well, how are they gonna feed that into the system?
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_02: That takes a lot of time and effort.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_02: So they figured out a way to harness us as that unpaid human labor to feed it all of these millions of photos that it needed to become smarter.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_01: I don't understand it, but I but I I I I get it.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_01: I get it.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_02: So it's but it's crazy to me because uh apparently there's like uh it's in some consent forms, you know, like if you're using a certain uh websites and whatever, you'll can you consented to it.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_02: But I didn't realize that.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_02: But anyway, that's what that's one of the things that they've been doing to train this AI.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_02: So the reason that we have um the agricultural lasers that can scan a field and distinguish between a valuable crop and a tiny weed in milliseconds, it's the exact same thing that they've done.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_02: The um, you know, this is a weed, this isn't a weed.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_02: So we've all fed into this system, even unknowingly, which even as I say it to you now and explain it, it's so unbelievable to me because I feel like I was I was duped.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't know that's what I was actually doing when I was clicking on the boxes, you know, for and those capsules.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we we thought we we we thought we were empowering ourselves.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, like well, not empowering myself, but you know, it will say like they used to say things like, you know, we want to make sure you're not a robot.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, oh, okay, I understand that there's bots trolling, you know, the internet um because there's bots that make comments now, you know, on people's posts and whatnot.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_02: So I thought, oh, maybe that's a good thing because they're trying to weed out a bot from accessing my bank account or, you know.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_02: Um and so so I was naive in that.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't realize the were using us you know the us millions of internet users to build this machine learning system that's now giving us lasers around our food like but but here's one application that they're actually using so so the your biological signature that AI can now detect from you using your own home computer it can actually be used to monitor your internal health status so it can track subtle changes for example in your fine mode or movement to detect things like tremors over time so they're using it they're starting to use it to detect early onset of neurological conditions like Parkinson's and Alzheimer's even before a medical doctor could diagnose it in the clinic so I thought hmm that's is that a good thing like we want earlier diagnoses right so that that's one of these areas where you can see that there could be a good thing behind this technology but then again we see like with lasers paired with the AI I would say I don't want that right so there's always the you know the pros and the cons and you have to weigh them.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_01: So so in your so in your research uh do you do you view this I mean is there a problem with lasers in your crop field I I mean from a from a health or a you know a biological um a biological standpoint and and in an energy standpoint.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_02: Okay so this this is where we are at this point this is so new that I don't think we know definitively I'll tell you what I found but I want to preface by saying there are always unintended consequences.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yes for all for all technologies that's right for the case you can't you can't have a car wreck if you don't have a car yes exactly so what Kennedy said on Joe Rogan's podcast was that these lasers on these farms have shown um a sh they've produced a 30% increase in crop productivity they've shortened the growing season for onions by three weeks um they're paying farmers back in nine months so one machine is a million dollars and they're getting paid back in nine months and he said there is no negative impact on the food.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_02: So now that is the narrative that there's no negative impact on the food.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_02: And if you look at it you'll see um like Cornell and Rutgers they're they're all pushing this narrative and their studies um like from 23 and 2024 they're all pushing this narrative that lasers are incredibly quote unquote clean when it comes to the surrounding environment so they're saying that they're highly accurate the laser is absorbed by water um in the plant which is what allows it to explode the plant and that it's almost entirely contained within the weed itself um so they're saying that it's that um earthworms for example live just below the surface so the soil is going to act as a heat shield and if a if a ladybug or a beetle or something like that was sitting on the weed then it would be harmed.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_02: But it shouldn't harm them you know if they're not there on the weed.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_02: Now they're the only thing that I found that they're saying is a potential potential long-term risk is the weeds could evolve.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_02: So the scientists are watching for what's called visual resistance.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_02: So the weeds that grow very flat to the ground or that can hide their growth points like under thick leaves or something um they might be able to hide from the AI cameras.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_02: So that could unintentionally breed a new generation of weeds that are physically stealthy to survive the lasers.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_02: So that's the only thing that they have said is something that scientists are actually looking at but again I mean you know even though it has this it has a thermal footprint right and it has to be hot enough to make the plant explode so when me just thinking of it logically right as a scientist I'm thinking there's not zero impact right heat has to dissipate like there's not going to be zero impact.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_02: So are we going to lose some microbes that are surrounding it in the soil?
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_02: Like I don't know maybe right but I would I cringed when Kennedy said no there are no negative impacts on the food because Joe Rogan point blank asked him well does that affect the food around it and he's like there's no negative impacts on the food.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_02: Once again here we go how can you make that claim?
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah we do not know no you know and they haven't measured everything to you know to to know that that statement is true everything has an impact.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_01: How many times have we been told there's nothing to see here and then and then a year later two years later 10 years later 50 years later we find out that it's not it's not what we thought.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_01: I mean well oh my goodness oh good well one of the things that immediately comes to my mind is not uh environmental it's it's economic that um that if the machine costs a million dollars then um then this will definitely create an unfair advantage to large scale operations and a prejudice against smaller operations that can't uh afford the million dollar machine oh yeah oh for sure and he was even saying that um like for row crops for example they would have to scale enormously to make it viable financially you know so that's encouraging yeah no no in other word in other words when he says it pays for itself what do you say it pays for pays for itself in months or something in nine months in nine months that's only for extremely high value crops like strawberries or or um you know uh blueberries raspberries um maybe mescaline mix something like that that's not in corn and soybeans yeah he gave the quote that um it costs$1500 per acre for glyphosate and manual labor but using this machine it would only cost$300 per acre and then he mentioned that with row crops he mentioned the statistic of$50 per acre so you'd have to scale enormously to make the machine viable so it's just promoting big ag again like let's grow big big ag even bigger um and to your point what in terms of saying that the lasers have no negative impact on the food um you know or the health of the soil or whatnot it's the same thing that we heard about glyphosate.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_02: Remember they said that glyphosate was not going to affect the health of humans you know um because they didn't understand that our microbes have the shikamate path pathway.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_02: So it's the same thing like so they're trying to solve this glyphosate issue that we now know you know is is causing disease with these lasers um before we even know the the unintended consequences of this.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_02: I mean and I wanted to get your take on this too because um so the lasers so you're not putting nutrients back in the soil right like by using the lasers.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_02: So we're not solving that problem like that's not a a regenerative approach.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_02: They're saying this billion dollars supposed to go towards you know using technology and do like re uh a regenerative practice.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_01: So I can see if you're lose using less chemical they could say well that's regenerative because we're using less chemical okay so yes on one hand but but you're not actually addressing the problem with the soil and trying to get nutrients back in the soil so that we have nutrient dense food to consume so we're not showing up with micronutrient deficiencies that are leading to disease and susceptibility to chronic illness you know um it it it's a it's another it's another example where a um where a particular product is being selected and and all the research the subsidies the money is going to this one solution to the exclusion of others for example I can tell you that um that the people that are doing crimping where they're they're putting a a s uh a cover crop that turns into what's called a smother crop so something like rye with hairy vetch growing up into it.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_01: I mean these things these things are massive I mean the the the you can't walk through this cover crop it's it's you know it's six feet tall it's thick as thick as you know fur on a on a sheep and or whatever I guess sheep didn't have fur has well anyway um it it it it's it's it's thick all right and they and and they they just run a roller across it a a crimper roller I mean these things are being made now this this is this is relatively new technology developed at the Rodale Center um you know in the last I don't know uh 20 25 years and they crimp this down and you have like a a four inch a four inch layer of mulch and then they seed they seed the the crop right into that mulch and the mulch keeps the weeds down it feeds the soil by the time the crop comes off the mulch is now turned into soil the soil is rich and thick and well fed and biologically active and there's no weeds in it and you're up and running.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_01: I mean we we actually uh for twice we've done it in the past we actually grew um corn and sudex we didn't we didn't grow corn to to pull the ears off we we grazed it with cows but Colin Sice in Australia has done what he calls pasture cropping where uh you go into a sod and you use animals to temporarily weaken the sod I think we've talked about that on this program sometime way way in the back uh but but you temporarily weaken the grass and then you can you can uh plant in an annual like soybeans or corn or wheat or whatever and it it beats the grass coming back and so with no herbicide um you can grow your annual crop while the grass is living underneath as a living mulch which is keeping the weeds away.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_01: I mean the the reason you have all these weeds is because people don't mulch.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_01: Weeds are the way nature protects the soil when it's opened up when it when it's naked and one of the the most critical factor in regenerative agriculture is we're trying to um build soil regenerate soil and soil that doesn't have cover on it is um i if the soil is naked and not clothed that's what deteriorates soil faster than anything and so the goal if you really want soil building regenerative agriculture is to figure out cropping systems like crimping like pasture cropping that never use herbicide and don't kill the the clothing of the soil and never expose the soil to the elements so the the main reason for weeds the the main uh problem with weeds if you will is that that that is assuming an agriculture system that is necessarily denuding of vegetative soil cover which is the number one reason soils um uh erode and um uh whatever become less fertile in cropping so now suddenly you get this technology and it allows you to continue to continue destroying the soil even though you're not using glyphosate yes yes and to your point as I was listening to Kennedy explain that this is their solution um and their and where they're going this is the future of the food supply is what he said uh not not quoting but the gist of it was this is the future it is going to be um automated it's gonna be a mechanical you know mechanistic food supply and I just kept thinking to myself oh so we're just back to the reductionist thinking model weeds are bad when it's my understanding that um weeds tell the farmer like what's going on it it it can it can tell the farmer like what's happening with the soil for example these are like all clues that nature's giving you and like some even can help break up impaction for example oh oh absolutely I mean the original the original American prairie was roughly 60 species of grass and a thousand species of weeds because legacy legacy carbon legacy carbon into the soil comes through these taprooted you know taprooted weeds think about a dandelion you know how how long the root of a dandelion is I mean some of those roots will be you know they're 12 inches more than 12 inches long uh a dandelion and so these these deep rooted uh things you know uh things like milkweed and uh goldenrod and chicory chicory has a massive taproot uh and according to John Kemp uh who we've had on this program uh John Kemp if you really want to build soil carbon legacy carbon you have you have to have these deep rooted in in in foragers we call them forbs we don't call them weeds other people call them weeds we call them forbs and and and um and that is what really creates the legacy carbon it's also what actually makes the most nutrient dense meat and milk.
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_01: The Bionutrient Food Association again we've had them on here with Dan Kittredge and they've now proven that the one determining factor of the most nutrient dense herbivore meat milk is how many varieties of plants did the animal eat.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_01: So so to sit there and say the answer for the food system and the farming system is a technology that allows us to continue a monoculture program with naked soil is a is a is a a preposterous proposition to a true ecological farmer.
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_02: Yes it's the opposite direction that we want to go in right they're not working with nature right at all they're still trying to control nature and it's obvious they don't understand nature even the fact that they're calling it weeds instead of Forbes like you mentioned like you know um it's to me that this part of his interview and learning about this um was so shi um shifting for me where I walked away from this and I said to my husband okay at this point I think that we've lost the the war here.
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_01: Like we've you know yeah I that's honestly how I felt hearing him hearing him talk about how Trump wants to accelerate this transition this is the technology that's gonna allow this to happen like 100% committed there was no like oh we're gonna wait and see we're gonna try this out he said very quick transition right this is how it's gonna happen um I mean how Cena how how how about how about he says um uh we'll just eliminate we'll just eliminate 70% of the corn and soybeans we grow and um and and start raising pastured livestock uh in instead of instead of all this corn and soybeans going to herbivores and uh how about we how about we um we quit dumping all of our food scraps in the landfill and we feed that to chickens so we can get eggs from chickens hooked up to our dining services um kitchens.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_01: I mean there there are so many really um uh integrated positive things that could be done and to just to just look at this I mean it'd be one thing if he said you know this is one of the tools we're looking at in the box there's a lot of others and this is just one but but to but to to to present it as a as a panacea is is uh downright frightening.
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_02: Yes I mean especially because he's saying this is the future right this is where we're going.
• 40:43
  SPEAKER_02: Um he did say the uh Rogan asked him about industrial fertilizers and Kennedy said that they do want to decrease petroleum based fertilizers um but they don't have a pathway to that yet so that's going to be slower but literally that so that tells you too relative to that that tells you how how fast they're trying to implement this other laser robotic uh technology so and you know how Trump is he he gets what he wants you know he makes it happen bull in a China China shop yeah yeah so um I literally I said to Donnie that you know we've lost this one like at this federal level right now like we have lost this and so we need to really put our attention and our effort into our homestead you know so we that's what we're doing.
• 41:37
  SPEAKER_02: I'm so happy that you and I are starting this series coming up on you know this freedom blueprint um involving homesteading and herbals and and just physical mental emotional freedom um that's coming soon from this podcast but we have really doubled down like we're expanding our garden uh this season we're we're I'm actively now procuring fruit trees you know the kids are involved with this whole process we're like figuring out all the best places on our land I've started to really um create a network a local network of other farmers and homesteaders where we're on the same channel now like chat channel and we're helping to sell our products to each other barter in some cases um because you know I'm one person I'm not gonna be able to create everything that my family needs so we're working as a tribe to provide for each other and so to me I said this is time like hearing this news for me personally this was what I needed to light that fire underneath me.
• 42:45
  SPEAKER_01: Wow yes so I'm like so I'm all in I was thinking of you all weekend I was like Joe will be so proud like you know like like we're now we're all in we're a homesteading family um and I'm trying to help my local community by connecting um these other farmers and homesteaders because I think this is where it comes to now it's gonna be the grassroots again once again we're not getting a top down rescue for our food supply it's coming it's gonna come from grassroots and it's gonna start with local your house and your community I I couldn't I couldn't agree with you more and uh I think that the homestead tsunami which we're well aware of um which is now penetrating into the homeschooling movement I mean I'm watching it now I'm speaking at a bunch of homeschooling conventions on homesteading it's like it's like the the the next the next permutation we can't trust the we can't trust the academic community to save our our kids.
• 43:51
  SPEAKER_01: We're at forty seven percent um unable to read in the in the public schools and so uh there we are on that and then and then okay now now we can't trust, you know, we can't trust anybody to to fix our food system.
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_01: And so let's just, you know, let's just um take let's just take the keys to our own car and and uh you know go to our own you know go to our own uh place and there's there's a tremendous amount of that and the people who can't do that I mean that's why well you know we're back we're back to me and my food emancipation proclamation.
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_01: I mean if you talk about a national security thing I mean he he's he's wanting to uh you said whatever it was how many millions of dollars into private sector development but nobody's talking about making it easy for me to sell a chicken pot pie to a neighbor nobody's talking about uh making it easy for me to butcher a pig in the backyard and sell sausage to somebody at church you know nobody's talking about that it's all it's all you know uh grants and and and and all it's it's all within the system it's all within the system and the system is fundamentally um fundamentally prejudicial uh against against truth yes and and come and really completely misguided i mean if you step back and look at it they're stepping in to save commodity crops right right so uh which is not something that we're we don't need all those commodity crops as you pointed out but they're basically trying to save a system that they created yes that was backwards in the first place you know they're they're saving the subsidies that the government itself created um and they're saving this glyphosate product that wouldn't even be on the market if it wasn't for the government selling out in the approval process you know so they're definitely not working for the people here um there were two other things that he talked about if if you're okay with me going to the next topic yeah yeah let's let's go we got about we got about 15 minutes so okay just two of the things that he talked about yeah and I thought this was um interesting Kennedy said that in the next three years we're gonna see a change in our medical experiences and just one change that he mentioned is that by the end of this year every American will be able to access their medical records on their cell phone right and and this is a a big deal as anybody know who knows who has medical records.
• 46:35
  SPEAKER_02: It is so difficult to get a copy of your medical records right and even if like you want to change doctors I I know very few doctors that will hand you your medical records and let you walk to the next doctor's office.
• 46:47
  SPEAKER_02: They send them right and like it's crazy how secretive they are about these records.
• 46:52
  SPEAKER_02: So what he's saying is that you're gonna be able to access the record yourself and then your records on your phone can be synced with a grocery store app.
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_02: So that when you walk into the grocery store this app will look at your records and it's gonna tell you which foods are bad for you and which ones are a better choice for you.
• 47:15
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my he mentioned um the Yucca app that um he said approximately 50% of people in France use it.
• 47:23
  SPEAKER_02: So it's this app on your phone you walk into the store you can scan a barcode you know the barcodes on the back of the package of the food and this app ranks the product for you.
• 47:33
  SPEAKER_02: So it ranks if it's bad, you know if it's good and if it's bad, it will make a recommendation for a healthier product for you.
• 47:42
  SPEAKER_02: And he said this is changing the food choices over there in France because companies are wanting to get a better yucca score on the app.
• 47:53
  SPEAKER_02: So they're changing their formulations so that their yucca score increases so that the people in France will buy that product because it's presumed to be healthier.
• 48:07
  SPEAKER_01: Oh man yeah I'm like I have many thoughts on this but you go first well I mean my first thought is that these kinds of things drive people away from small producers because small producers are not gonna we're not gonna be able to link up we we don't want to link up with this kind of system.
• 48:29
  SPEAKER_01: I mean that that's all of these all of these techno solutions drive people into the arms of the of the large you know the consolidated centralized um model but they all do.
• 48:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I mean are they really going to say you should eat a pastured chicken I mean really no you know that's not going to be the case.
• 48:57
  SPEAKER_02: And and uh you know it makes sense they'd have to say okay leave the grocery store and here's your local farmer to get this truly pasturized chicken.
• 49:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah is is anything gonna say that you and I know that it won't and and then of course the other thing is you know uh what's it what what as as you were talking I was thinking that the funny thing was um I wonder what my health would have to be to go in and have it tell me you really need Coca-Cola today.
• 49:29
  SPEAKER_01: That would really be good for you if you had Coca-Cola today.
• 49:32
  SPEAKER_01: What would my health would I be like two days from death you know that you might as well live it up you know you're done.
• 49:38
  SPEAKER_01: It's good for your health because you'll, you know, you'll you'll uh you know or or or or or you know uh Snicker Snickers bars.
• 49:45
  SPEAKER_01: You really need Snickers bars today.
• 49:48
  SPEAKER_02: It could, you know what I was just thinking, I bet you if if they if if this isn't already a thing, I bet you this is coming as like a phone app where it will have that AI technology on there and it will be able to read your biology like I just talked about and maybe we'll be able to read that oh she she she seems a little sad you know and and actually recommend you know oh you like to eat ice cream when you're sad.
• 50:14
  SPEAKER_02: Here's the healthier version of ice cream that you could buy like you know like it's possible right I mean that sounds crazy but absolutely that is totally possible.
• 50:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah I mean I yeah I've I have a lot of thoughts on this one but you're absolutely right um and it's to me it's a little bit sad that we're that we've come to that place where we need apps to help us pick out food healthy food.
• 50:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah um this seems like a pretty obvious thing to me that you know if something is whole food that's a healthier food if if something flip over the box if it has a bunch of artificial ingredients in it that's a less healthy food but but the thing is the thing is Cena all the the fraternity the fraternity that puts these things together is all an unholy alliance of people that that that um that view us I'll just say it that view us as machines they're I mean I mean all of the AI uh developers you can look at what they've written and they actually they actually view the human as a sophisticated machine but a machine nonetheless and um and that's a that's a that's a profound um decision making uh notion you know and and and so so all of the algorithms and the power the learning going into the AI uh systems is going to be controlled developed and amalgamated by a fundamentally a fundamentally mechanistic reductionist Greco Roman linear worldview and those of us in our space we realize it's not just a segregated reductionist linear Greco Roman thing we're we're we're we're spiritual beings we are our our electrical biological uh uh relational beings that that have a microbiome that is uh running a they're running a a food court down there you know I'll trade you this for that I mean there's there's all this uh uh there's there's dynamic spontaneous decision making going on at the molecular level in our bodies and to to think that we can take something external operated by Cargill Tyson and Nestle's and have it sync up with the most fundamental needs of our of our microbial microbiome uh takes quite a leap of faith actually it absolutely does I mean once again we're outsourcing our power uh relying on this technology to to answer the questions that we can answer intuitively and that only we know intuitively you know but we've but the more that we outsource our power the less we're connected with that God given intuition right so we're moving further and further from the real goal which is developing a stronger relationship with your food and with yourself yeah so that you can get out of this system that they're dragging us through.
• 53:49
  SPEAKER_01: Talk about becoming disconnected huh that's right and and you know two things come to mind.
• 53:55
  SPEAKER_02: So who behind these apps for example who's deciding what's good and bad yeah you know I mean even in America we still have that 10% saturated fat cap.
• 54:05
  SPEAKER_02: So you know that's gonna drive somebody away from like red meats for example um or over you're now or you're over your egg limit.
• 54:16
  SPEAKER_02: So here go get this carbohydrate or you know like so someone behind the scenes is having to decide what's good and what's bad.
• 54:25
  SPEAKER_02: So that means somebody can be gotten to right somebody can be bought off.
• 54:30
  SPEAKER_02: That's right.
• 54:30
  SPEAKER_02: You know, just like we're seeing happening with the revolving door and how we got to this mess in the first place with our food supply.
• 54:37
  SPEAKER_02: So you're still handing your control and your consent over to that type of system um that is far removed from the individual person from your local community and from your local farmer.
• 54:50
  SPEAKER_02: So to me while it seems all glitzy and you know if if food choices are actually shifting in the market in France because of this app, I mean that's that's a good thing.
• 55:05
  SPEAKER_02: But again it's going toward this mechanical solution.
• 55:11
  SPEAKER_01: But France, but Cena, you and I know France loves good food.
• 55:19
  SPEAKER_01: You go to France, you don't see a bunch of fat people you don't see a bunch of diabetes and heart disease you see you know trim lean you know um great looking folks because they love their butter they they love their you know they they love their wine they love you know they they they love good food good cheese I mean think of the French cheeses I mean there's a million of them but they they love their cheese and and so you know a culture that has a strong food culture uh a positive you know Sicily you know uh that has a I mean go to a blue zone you know uh that has a strong good food culture you know it it it might it it might be it might be you know benign at best but not you know bad at worst but a culture like ours that invented DDT and McDonald's um uh it is uh it it yeah it it makes you shudder to think we're gonna put them in charge of it.
• 56:19
  SPEAKER_01: All right what's number two?
• 56:20
  SPEAKER_02: Yes yeah well no but and that's a good point you bring up because it could it um the results of that could be skewed based on that culture versus ours.
• 56:30
  SPEAKER_02: So it's not this great comparison right you know we may not get the same outcome.
• 56:33
  SPEAKER_02: Plus you have to get people to be willing to use that app.
• 56:37
  SPEAKER_02: Like you have to get people who want to change their food choices to even get them to use that app.
• 56:42
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 56:43
  SPEAKER_02: You know so that's another big hurdle here.
• 56:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah we can't even get enough people to speak up against glyphosate to get that done.
• 56:52
  SPEAKER_02: He did also say that um by by April they will have a federal definition of what ultra processed food is.
• 57:01
  SPEAKER_02: And that will be the first time in history that we have this definition of ultra processed food.
• 57:06
  SPEAKER_02: Once they have that they can do the front of package labeling they've been talking about and he's saying that this the system will probably have the green yellow red.
• 57:15
  SPEAKER_02: So we talked about that before uh I think last week on this program because Canada came out with their their labeling system and it was the magnifying glass.
• 57:24
  SPEAKER_02: So it seems it's going to be something similar to that but there's you know in terms of very easy to identify couple you know three different levels they're looking at certain nutrients but he's saying they might change it from that magnifying glass to green yellow red to make it even easier green means go eat it.
• 57:47
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah obviously red means bad.
• 57:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah so um and how are we doing on time?
• 57:52
  SPEAKER_02: Uh we just got a couple minutes oh okay we'll probably have to save the next one for this so um but yeah so any any final thoughts from you I mean we we talked about quite a bit here and my biggest thing that I wanted to know from you is about farming and this whole concept of going to this technology like I've seen posts of um organic farmers praising this technology saying some saying that they use it and they love it.
• 58:29
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's changed how they farm they talked about similar things that you've said that the age of farming farmers is like what 60 what's the average age of a farmer now it's just right at 60 not not quite 60.
• 58:45
  SPEAKER_02: So almost 60 and they're saying that this these machines are going to help because these 60 year olds are having a hard time do taking care of the weeds and you know the robots can now they have robots that can go up and down the rows and they agitate the ground so it can prevent weeds from coming up you're saying that's going to help with that issue of the farmers aging out and it could also help with bringing new farmers in because it's not as much manual labor um once you get the robots and the lasers and it's more it's like sexier like it's it's making farming more appealing to possibly younger generations who like to use this.
• 59:31
  SPEAKER_02: So for example the drones they were talking about that will shoot the lasers they can control them on an iPad you know the robots that they currently have that can agitate the ground and deal with weeds you can you can control that on an iPad.
• 59:46
  SPEAKER_02: So it's they're praising it you know and I was surprised to see that coming out of organic farmers but they're saying they're they've bought into it they're saying all these problems that you've talked about this is going to solve it.
• 1:00:01
  SPEAKER_02: What do you say?
• 1:00:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah well just realize that the organic label is itself corrupted and so the organ the organic farmers that are saying this are probably the large monoculture organic farmers that I would not consider regenerative farmers uh and and I mean I mean um you know organic Driscoll's strawberries hydroponically grown in the desert in Arizona is not what I would call you know regenerative agriculture so um so yeah uh these these things you know these things develop they come along uh time will tell but if there's one thing that an intentionally thinking person should should adhere to today it's there's no there's no silver bullet especially technology nature's been a long time developing principles and um and none of this stuff actually feeds the soil um it's all about how do we get food cheaper and um make and and have fewer farmers instead of more farmers fewer people on the land and um and it it and it all all of these things are very scale prejudicial.
• 1:01:35
  SPEAKER_01: They love scale the bigger you are the easier it is to do the you know and and and so while we while we make cheap food we we make it more fragile and we have longer chains of custody we have more opaqueness and so uh is it better to have transparency and neighborhood security or have cheap volumes at a nameless laceless supermarket I mean though those are trade-offs you know those are all those are all trade-offs and they're worth and they're worth looking at so um so a question for our folks is um are you gonna get a laser weeder anytime soon do you wish here you go do you wish you could have a laser weeder um I I can tell you you know I've I've talked I've worked with you know many many gardeners over the years and um I mean and there's there's one thing that the gardeners horticulture folks that that I consider my closest um whatever friends um don't see weeds as a big problem because they get their soil right and they treat it right and they cover it right and so I just don't I I've just never heard them talking about weeds very much but I hear a lot about weeds from people who aren't treating their soil very well and so I I would like to see us um patronize people who aren't fixated on their weed problem because they've fixed their soil problem.
• 1:03:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yes and I know we're out of time but let me ask you a quick question okay along that line then piggybacking what we said earlier to me that means the weeds are there to solve a problem yeah right so because you're saying if this if the soil is healthy, if they tend it to the soil they don't really have these weeds pop up.
• 1:03:50
  SPEAKER_02: So in essence the weeds are an indication that there's something wrong and may in fact be trying to heal the soil.
• 1:03:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yes absolutely absolutely the so the soil is desperate for covering desperate for covering and that's why thistles have spines on them so that nothing will come along and eat it uh so that in a bare in a barren place we got these stickers and we'll we'll protect ourselves from but a thistle makes an incredibly long taproot I mean like two two and a half feet long big old big old fat taproot and so when when we come across with you know with a uh you know a mineral box or a shade mobile with cows and we get disturbance and dung and urine on there uh next year that spot turns the thistle is gone but you have this massive big old you know inch and a half uh diameter cylindrical organic matter um uh you know penetrating into the soil and the soil's now growing clover uh that was in the seed bank wanting to grow but for whatever reasons it couldn't grow because it conditions weren't conducive to it and we came across with a with an exercise a disturbance factor that fed the soil awakened it exercised it and now uh the thistle is not necessary anymore because the ground's covered up with clover I mean I've seen that over and oh I've seen that for decades uh that's the kind of thing that happens and to me that's the direction we need to head rather than rather than cre where rather than waging war rather rather than waging war on the symptoms of our war.
• 1:05:38
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah they're killing the very things that are trying to heal the soil that they killed.
• 1:05:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah yeah yeah that's right all right well everybody thanks for joining us for another episode of Beyond Labels we really appreciate you um uh tuning into us and enjoying the conversation with us we're learning along with you with everybody else thanks for being with us we look forward to visiting with you next time