Latest / Go Long Podcast / Ty & Bob Pod S5 E5: State of the Packers with Tom Silverstein

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Ty & Bob Pod S5 E5: State of the Packers with Tom Silverstein · Go Long Podcast

0:00
[music]
0:20
Ty and Spoon Pod this week.
0:23
[music]
0:34
SPEAKER_00: This is awesome.
0:35
SPEAKER_00: It is so great to welcome back an old friend.
0:39
SPEAKER_00: That's right.
0:40
SPEAKER_00: As I texted Tom last night,
0:41
SPEAKER_00: there is no need to meticulously dive into the film of every single starter in
0:47
SPEAKER_00: the NFC North as McGinn only can.
0:51
SPEAKER_00: McGinn, of course,
0:52
SPEAKER_00: he mentioned it last week,
0:53
SPEAKER_00: everyone,
0:54
SPEAKER_00: taking a little vacation, getting back to his roots, going all over the place.
0:58
SPEAKER_00: So we're bringing in Tom.
1:00
SPEAKER_02: High school football and...
1:03
SPEAKER_02: In Ann Arbor, is that what he's doing?
1:06
SPEAKER_00: He's going back to his dad's hometown.
1:08
SPEAKER_00: He's catching up with one of our OG subscribers here, Dr. Jeff.
1:13
SPEAKER_00: He's all over the place going through Minnesota.
1:16
SPEAKER_00: So, yes, well-deserved.
1:21
SPEAKER_00: You know what?
1:22
SPEAKER_00: In our chat on Sunday, so we both do...
1:25
SPEAKER_00: Our game day chats,
1:26
SPEAKER_00: I'd like to think of myself as a poor man's Tom because,
1:29
SPEAKER_00: Tom, you are the innovator of all things game day chat.
1:32
SPEAKER_00: I can remember our JS online days and you're banging away during the games
1:37
SPEAKER_00: and I'd take over like a Q&A style chat with readers after the fact.
1:41
SPEAKER_00: There's nothing like it with Packer fans.
1:43
SPEAKER_00: It's insatiable.
1:45
SPEAKER_00: And how is it going?
1:47
SPEAKER_00: Because people mention it in our chat how you're still going strong
1:53
SPEAKER_00: with – Communicating in real time with everyone watching these Packer games.
1:58
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we've had an issue with the platform because my company,
2:06
SPEAKER_02: Gannett, has just dragged its feet on improving the software.
2:12
SPEAKER_02: In fact, they let a contract expire with one of our people.
2:17
SPEAKER_02: And now, after, geez, it's been a year and a half, maybe two years of...
2:24
SPEAKER_02: Messing around with platforms where we have a new one that looks like it's going
2:28
SPEAKER_02: to be good, but it's not going to be rolled out.
2:32
SPEAKER_02: Hopefully it's going to be rolled out for the Lions game after the Cowboys game.
2:38
SPEAKER_02: But it's still,
2:39
SPEAKER_02: you know,
2:39
SPEAKER_02: even though half the people can't get on because it's so clunky,
2:45
SPEAKER_02: people are still really loyal and really passionate.
2:50
SPEAKER_02: And I have to filter through a lot of comments.
2:56
SPEAKER_02: You know,
2:57
SPEAKER_02: that it's really just sometimes it can just be a bitch fest and
3:02
SPEAKER_02: then other times it can be really a good discussion about what's going on on
3:08
SPEAKER_02: the field or long term and people have good questions.
3:11
SPEAKER_02: So I enjoy it.
3:13
SPEAKER_02: I mean, it's if I didn't have severe ADHD,
3:17
SPEAKER_02: it wouldn't work because I'm got like You know,
3:20
SPEAKER_02: the laptop,
3:21
SPEAKER_02: I'm looking down, I'm writing questions, I'm looking up at the game, you know.
3:25
SPEAKER_02: Right, got to watch the game a little.
3:27
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you got to watch the game,
3:29
SPEAKER_02: you know,
3:29
SPEAKER_02: and then you can look down for a second to type something out and then look at
3:33
SPEAKER_02: the questions and then come back and post a question and then answer it.
3:37
SPEAKER_02: So anyways, it's, I don't know, it's a passion and it's a curse.
3:45
SPEAKER_02: So it's both of those things.
3:48
SPEAKER_00: The reason I bring it up is last weekend during the Packers Bears game,
3:52
SPEAKER_00: which we're going to dig into, of course, here on the pod.
3:56
SPEAKER_00: I all of a sudden got into some old memories on the road.
4:00
SPEAKER_00: With Spoon and Bob.
4:02
SPEAKER_00: And oh my gosh, I hope you have something tucked away in your brain.
4:06
SPEAKER_00: I'm trying to think back to some of the shenanigans we got into.
4:09
SPEAKER_00: Because those are some of the best times on the job is communicating with Bob via
4:15
SPEAKER_00: the hotel phone, right?
4:17
SPEAKER_00: No cell phone.
4:19
SPEAKER_00: That was one of them.
4:20
SPEAKER_00: We almost died in Chicago,
4:22
SPEAKER_00: that truck that came out of nowhere and almost just blasted us off the highway.
4:26
SPEAKER_02: That's another.
4:27
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
4:30
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but you were changing lanes, but you're right.
4:32
SPEAKER_00: That guy came out of nowhere.
4:34
SPEAKER_00: He was a bat out of hell along the lake.
4:36
SPEAKER_02: And it was a snowstorm.
4:38
SPEAKER_02: I couldn't see anything.
4:40
SPEAKER_02: And he just blew.
4:41
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's probably the closest I've come to fighting it.
4:46
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
4:47
SPEAKER_00: And then,
4:47
SPEAKER_00: of course,
4:48
SPEAKER_00: I'll never forget Bob just loading up on like three breakfasts Sunday morning
4:52
SPEAKER_00: to hold him over for two days right into the Monday film.
4:56
SPEAKER_00: But does anything pop to mind from our five years together out there?
5:03
SPEAKER_02: Specifically, I would say, I'm trying to remember if there was a game or a road trip.
5:13
SPEAKER_02: My brain has significantly shrunk since every year I get older.
5:20
SPEAKER_00: I don't believe that for a second.
5:22
SPEAKER_02: It's true.
5:23
SPEAKER_02: It's true.
5:24
SPEAKER_02: You know, I can remember stuff in the 90s better than I can in the 2010s.
5:32
SPEAKER_02: Like, I specifically practices, games, interviews, all that stuff.
5:39
SPEAKER_02: I can remember it really closely.
5:42
SPEAKER_02: And then if you ask me, what was the year...
5:46
SPEAKER_02: The Packers lost to the 49ers in the cold against Colin Kaepernick.
5:53
SPEAKER_02: I'd go, I got no idea, no idea.
5:57
SPEAKER_02: It's weird, stuff like that.
5:59
SPEAKER_02: I can't remember,
6:00
SPEAKER_02: I can't differentiate the years between when you were there
6:04
SPEAKER_02: and Michael Cohen was there.
6:08
SPEAKER_02: I can't even tell you what years those were because it's all such a blur sometimes.
6:15
SPEAKER_02: But then something will trigger my memory.
6:17
SPEAKER_02: If something happens or I see something, then it'll trigger my memory.
6:22
SPEAKER_02: But it's like I have this spinning wheel in my head and I never know what's going
6:27
SPEAKER_02: to come up first.
6:31
SPEAKER_00: Well, there's a lot in your head right now with the 2026 Green Bay Packers, I'm sure.
6:38
SPEAKER_00: So for those who missed it,
6:39
SPEAKER_00: by the way,
6:40
SPEAKER_00: Tom's columns are always an absolute must read at the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel,
6:44
SPEAKER_00: PackersNews.com.
6:45
SPEAKER_00: It's the reason I subscribe.
6:47
SPEAKER_00: The reason many people subscribe alone is to see what Tom has to say,
6:51
SPEAKER_00: win or lose, because you're always going to keep it real.
6:54
SPEAKER_00: I mean, after that wild card loss to the Chicago Bears,
6:57
SPEAKER_00: you wrote a very strong column on head coach Matt LaFleur.
7:01
SPEAKER_00: When I saw you out there in Minneapolis,
7:03
SPEAKER_00: Packers-Vikings,
7:04
SPEAKER_00: that meltdown,
7:05
SPEAKER_00: Your column was excellent on Jordan Love and not wanting to waste a talent like this
7:09
SPEAKER_00: at quarterback.
7:10
SPEAKER_00: So a lot's happened the last month, Tom.
7:13
SPEAKER_00: We had a two-parter on Matt LaFleur at Go Long as well.
7:17
SPEAKER_00: They fly down to Tampa.
7:18
SPEAKER_00: They eke out a win over UDFA Jalen Daniels.
7:22
SPEAKER_00: Win is a win.
7:23
SPEAKER_00: Make no apologies.
7:25
SPEAKER_00: Then they come back to Lambeau and just curb-stomp the Chicago Bears and Ben Johnson 31-7.
7:30
SPEAKER_00: And honestly...
7:32
SPEAKER_00: The score was kind.
7:33
SPEAKER_00: It could have been a lot worse.
7:34
SPEAKER_00: Matt LaFleur wanted to make it a lot worse.
7:37
SPEAKER_00: Chucking bombs late.
7:39
SPEAKER_00: So state of affairs for the Green Bay Packers.
7:42
SPEAKER_00: If this is a state of the union on the team and Tom Silverstein is going to offer
7:47
SPEAKER_00: an address, what is the current state of this franchise?
7:53
SPEAKER_02: Well, let me just say the way I view the game against the Bears is it was one
8:01
SPEAKER_02: of those days where one team just kind of didn't show up and it was its worst day.
8:09
SPEAKER_02: It got outcoached,
8:11
SPEAKER_02: you know,
8:12
SPEAKER_02: the backup quarter,
8:13
SPEAKER_02: we were playing with a backup quarterback and It was just,
8:16
SPEAKER_02: you know, some days you see it in the NFL where teams just, you don't expect it.
8:22
SPEAKER_02: And some team beats the crap out of another team, especially in the division, division games.
8:30
SPEAKER_02: And A lot of people want to read a lot into it.
8:34
SPEAKER_02: Bears people think that their team is dead, that there's no way they can rebound from this.
8:41
SPEAKER_02: Packers people think it could be a step forward.
8:44
SPEAKER_02: I'm like, it's week five.
8:46
SPEAKER_02: It's a one game in the season.
8:49
SPEAKER_02: And I'll believe that the Packers are a playoff team when I see it.
8:55
SPEAKER_02: And right now, I still think they have a lot of weaknesses.
9:01
SPEAKER_02: But, you know, the one thing you can say for sure is they have a lot of talent.
9:08
SPEAKER_02: You know, they got two explosive wide receivers.
9:10
SPEAKER_02: They got a Pro Bowl type tight end.
9:13
SPEAKER_02: They got Potential top 10 quarterback, or he is a top 10 quarterback, I would say right now.
9:22
SPEAKER_02: You know, they're going to get Micah Parsons back at some point.
9:25
SPEAKER_02: Their defense, they've got three really good safeties.
9:30
SPEAKER_02: Their defensive line isn't bad.
9:34
SPEAKER_02: They have,
9:35
SPEAKER_02: I think they have enough talent,
9:36
SPEAKER_02: even with the injuries to Edren Cooper and Zach Bacoboeli, Jaden Reed.
9:43
SPEAKER_02: I think they have enough reserves that they can still be a competitive team.
9:48
SPEAKER_02: But I don't believe in the coaching staff.
9:52
SPEAKER_02: They need to prove it to me that they can
9:57
SPEAKER_02: win consistently and then win in the playoffs.
10:01
SPEAKER_02: So I'm going to sit here and just sit back and watch it and be an observer
10:06
SPEAKER_02: because nothing has convinced me that...
10:11
SPEAKER_02: They're the team in the division.
10:13
SPEAKER_02: I don't think we know who the team in the division is.
10:15
SPEAKER_02: Minnesota right now has the strongest of the strengths,
10:21
SPEAKER_02: which is their defense, but their offense stinks.
10:25
SPEAKER_02: Their special teams are good.
10:26
SPEAKER_02: Their defense are good.
10:28
SPEAKER_02: The Packers, their defense is okay.
10:33
SPEAKER_02: Their offense is potentially really good if they could ever block anybody,
10:36
SPEAKER_02: but they have weaknesses too.
10:38
SPEAKER_02: Their special teams aren't that great.
10:41
SPEAKER_02: I don't think their defense is that great.
10:42
SPEAKER_02: Their offense is great.
10:44
SPEAKER_02: So nobody's like a complete team.
10:47
SPEAKER_02: And I think, you know, it's going to come down to coaching to some degree.
10:53
SPEAKER_02: Players matter, you know, like LeFleur says, but coaching does too.
10:59
SPEAKER_00: And it's always hard to put your finger on that intangible.
11:04
SPEAKER_00: You know,
11:04
SPEAKER_00: like this was a team – That lost five games when they led
11:08
SPEAKER_00: by nine plus points last year.
11:11
SPEAKER_00: We all saw the carnage at Soldier Field.
11:13
SPEAKER_00: We all saw the carnage carrying right into this season at U.S. Bank Stadium.
11:18
SPEAKER_00: And so, yeah, they beat the hell out of the Bears and had to have been cathartic for this team.
11:24
SPEAKER_00: A lot of those players that took those losses very personal.
11:29
SPEAKER_00: Sitting down with Javon Bullard in March, you could tell this one was personal.
11:34
SPEAKER_00: I remember we walked outside into the night.
11:36
SPEAKER_00: And he looked like a dude,
11:38
SPEAKER_00: clenched fist, that wanted to take on the Bears right then, in March.
11:42
SPEAKER_00: And he was pissed that he had to wait another, whatever, five, six months.
11:45
SPEAKER_00: So they let out a lot of steam and blow him out of the building.
11:50
SPEAKER_01: Was there any psychological rewiring to this team, though?
11:54
SPEAKER_00: Right?
11:54
SPEAKER_00: It's always hard to figure out,
11:56
SPEAKER_00: okay, why does one thing goes wrong and then another and then another and another?
12:01
SPEAKER_00: And that was crazy.
12:02
SPEAKER_00: Do you think that they exercised any of those demons with this blowout over Chicago?
12:06
SPEAKER_00: Well,
12:21
SPEAKER_02: I think they did one thing really well,
12:27
SPEAKER_02: and they didn't make too much out of last year.
12:31
SPEAKER_02: I think what they did was they kind of looked at the Atlanta game,
12:36
SPEAKER_02: which was their only home game of the year,
12:38
SPEAKER_02: and they just got blown off the field on every facet.
12:43
SPEAKER_02: And I think they looked at it and they put it all on themselves
12:49
SPEAKER_02: and didn't look really at Chicago and said, we got to clean up our own house.
12:55
SPEAKER_02: And I think the players took that on themselves.
13:00
SPEAKER_02: LaFleur didn't make a big deal about the rivalry, which I still think is kind of a mistake.
13:05
SPEAKER_02: I still think you have to play up that rivalry.
13:07
SPEAKER_02: And when they get up to Chicago on Christmas Day, I think more needs to be made of the rivalry.
13:15
SPEAKER_02: But in this case, they were really focused on their own problems and fixing their own problems.
13:23
SPEAKER_02: And I think that was the difference, was they just played their game.
13:29
SPEAKER_02: You know, they weren't afraid of throwing the ball deep.
13:32
SPEAKER_02: They recognized Chicago's weakness in secondary.
13:37
SPEAKER_02: They understood that You know,
13:42
SPEAKER_02: they don't have a run game, so they used the pass game as a run game early on.
13:46
SPEAKER_02: They dinked and dunked a little bit.
13:50
SPEAKER_02: And then when they started to get confidence in their offensive line,
13:54
SPEAKER_02: then they went and started going deep almost every time.
14:00
SPEAKER_02: I think that was a good example of who they need to be and the coaching.
14:05
SPEAKER_02: But I sometimes think they just get away from that.
14:07
SPEAKER_02: You know, they get away from...
14:12
SPEAKER_02: Solid thinking.
14:14
SPEAKER_02: They,
14:16
SPEAKER_02: it's like sometimes you have to hit them over the head to get them to understand,
14:24
SPEAKER_02: to stop out thinking themselves,
14:27
SPEAKER_02: you know,
14:27
SPEAKER_02: like they have,
14:29
SPEAKER_02: so they start their offensive line this year and they have Jacob Monk
14:33
SPEAKER_02: at right guard, Aaron Banks is hurt, you know, so they go Donovan Jennings there and
14:43
SPEAKER_02: They totally mis-evaluated their guys.
14:49
SPEAKER_02: How can that happen?
14:50
SPEAKER_02: How do you mis-evaluate guys you've had for two or three years?
14:54
SPEAKER_02: All of a sudden,
14:55
SPEAKER_02: in Tampa, they put in Travis Glover at right guard, who I've always really liked.
15:01
SPEAKER_02: I know personnel people think he's really talented.
15:06
SPEAKER_02: And they tried to play him a tackle in camp.
15:08
SPEAKER_02: He's a guard.
15:09
SPEAKER_02: He's totally a guard.
15:10
SPEAKER_02: They throw him in at right guard.
15:11
SPEAKER_02: And lo and behold, he's not bad.
15:14
SPEAKER_02: He's not the answer, but he solidifies that side of the line.
15:21
SPEAKER_02: They sign Lakin Tomlinson.
15:23
SPEAKER_02: He's not going to blow anyone, but he's going to block the right guy.
15:29
SPEAKER_02: Sometimes what they do...
15:30
SPEAKER_02: There's head scratching.
15:32
SPEAKER_02: And I think they,
15:34
SPEAKER_02: you know,
15:34
SPEAKER_02: they, they have paralysis of by our analysis by paralysis or paralysis by analysis.
15:42
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, they sometimes just can't make decisions.
15:45
SPEAKER_02: So that that'll be something to watch as we go, how do they use guys?
15:51
SPEAKER_02: If they don't Recognize that Aaron Banks, everybody hates Aaron Banks here.
15:55
SPEAKER_02: They're left guard.
15:56
SPEAKER_02: I think he's a complete bust.
15:59
SPEAKER_02: But when he's healthy, he's a good player.
16:03
SPEAKER_02: And I would bet that they just sit there and don't do anything about it and don't play him.
16:09
SPEAKER_02: But you have to play your best players.
16:11
SPEAKER_02: And you have to recognize who's going to help you the most win.
16:15
SPEAKER_02: And sometimes I don't think they do that very well.
16:19
SPEAKER_00: You know, that was a criticism from players and coaches alike with Matt LaFleur.
16:24
SPEAKER_00: He is a perfectionist and there's a lot that you love about a perfectionist.
16:29
SPEAKER_00: He is trying to find the best possible play for the best possible situation.
16:34
SPEAKER_00: He's maniacal.
16:35
SPEAKER_00: He's not going to ask those coaches to do anything that he won't do himself.
16:38
SPEAKER_00: He's, you know, he,
16:40
SPEAKER_00: he might work them into the ground as,
16:42
SPEAKER_00: as readers might've learned there,
16:45
SPEAKER_00: but, but you know what, they're, You've got to zoom out.
16:48
SPEAKER_00: You've got to see the big picture.
16:49
SPEAKER_00: And you're moving all these guys to all these different positions.
16:53
SPEAKER_00: Travis Glover is a perfect example.
16:55
SPEAKER_00: Where is a player comfortable?
16:57
SPEAKER_00: Let him shine there.
16:58
SPEAKER_00: Let him play off instinct.
16:59
SPEAKER_00: There's a player on that team that was just kind of looking into
17:03
SPEAKER_00: the receiver drills one practice,
17:05
SPEAKER_00: and it kind of blew his mind that they wanted Romeo Dobbs and Dontavion Wicks
17:08
SPEAKER_00: and these guys to round, to cut their route perfect half-yard mark.
17:13
SPEAKER_00: I forget the exact examples in the story.
17:16
SPEAKER_00: He's like, look,
17:17
SPEAKER_00: These are red-blooded,
17:18
SPEAKER_00: testosterone-fueled, the best athletes on the face of the earth.
17:22
SPEAKER_00: You got to let guys play off instincts sometimes.
17:24
SPEAKER_00: And that would be a criticism here is,
17:27
SPEAKER_00: you know, I think that there's a lot of good there with Matt LaFleur.
17:31
SPEAKER_00: And even the response to that Atlanta game,
17:34
SPEAKER_00: and you kind of referenced it too, Tom, you're seeing it every day on the beat.
17:38
SPEAKER_00: A coach told me the day after that loss that he was very calm, right?
17:43
SPEAKER_00: And it was really refreshing.
17:44
SPEAKER_00: He wasn't panicked at all.
17:46
SPEAKER_00: And I think that was the right response.
17:51
SPEAKER_00: The house isn't on fire.
17:52
SPEAKER_00: Let's try to find solutions here.
17:55
SPEAKER_00: Even his X and O mind, he sees space.
17:59
SPEAKER_00: Even those who might critique his leadership style say, yeah, he should call plays.
18:04
SPEAKER_00: He should keep designing plays.
18:06
SPEAKER_00: The work he did with Jordan Love, incredible.
18:09
SPEAKER_00: But I think I'm where you're at too.
18:12
SPEAKER_00: Can you see the big picture?
18:14
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you can't ride an emotional roller coaster.
18:17
SPEAKER_00: I think that.
18:31
SPEAKER_02: And it could be something that the Bears are going through.
18:36
SPEAKER_02: But my experience through Holmgren and then especially Mike McCarthy,
18:42
SPEAKER_02: who I thought was outstanding at one of his strengths was they were a flat line
18:48
SPEAKER_02: through the whole season.
18:50
SPEAKER_02: Because there's so many ups and downs that the team that can just And they had
18:58
SPEAKER_02: so many downs with injuries and all that kind of stuff.
19:02
SPEAKER_02: And they just stayed the course.
19:06
SPEAKER_02: It didn't always work, but they were consistent, his staff, in that regard.
19:12
SPEAKER_02: That, okay, once that bad game was over, they'd try to fix it.
19:16
SPEAKER_02: Don't go get too high, don't get too low.
19:19
SPEAKER_02: I think LeFleur has a tendency...
19:21
SPEAKER_02: To be on the field, especially, to get really high and then get really low.
19:28
SPEAKER_02: And I think he did better with this.
19:31
SPEAKER_02: I think he didn't panic after the Atlanta game.
19:34
SPEAKER_02: He saw that it was a Thursday game.
19:35
SPEAKER_02: They weren't prepared.
19:37
SPEAKER_02: OK, move on, because you better beat Tampa Bay.
19:44
SPEAKER_02: There's a lot of criticism.
19:47
SPEAKER_02: He's a very bright offensive mind.
19:51
SPEAKER_02: And I truly believe if he had been fired after last year, he would have landed a job.
19:57
SPEAKER_02: He would have been a head coach somewhere.
19:59
SPEAKER_02: But I also think that there's times where he gets caught up in the system.
20:09
SPEAKER_02: All these guys love their system.
20:12
SPEAKER_02: And I think he doesn't always play to matchups.
20:17
SPEAKER_02: He plays to, okay, let's see what the defense gives us.
20:21
SPEAKER_02: Jordan, you throw to the guy that they leave open.
20:24
SPEAKER_02: Throw to the one based on the defense.
20:27
SPEAKER_02: And I think sometimes you have to force the issue and you have to be game planning
20:32
SPEAKER_02: to create matchups.
20:34
SPEAKER_02: And if I had a criticism of his offense, that would be it.
20:39
SPEAKER_02: Matthew Golden should never go.
20:41
SPEAKER_02: In any game with two targets,
20:44
SPEAKER_02: you know, or, I mean, he should have seven or eight targets every game.
20:49
SPEAKER_02: He should be force-fed the ball.
20:50
SPEAKER_02: Same with, you know, Tucker Craft at times, you have to do that too.
20:55
SPEAKER_02: I don't,
20:56
SPEAKER_02: if there's a good matchup like Christian Watson was with Jalen Johnson,
21:02
SPEAKER_02: kill it until they stop it, you know.
21:04
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
21:04
SPEAKER_02: Until they stop it.
21:06
SPEAKER_00: Push that button
21:07
SPEAKER_02: nonstop.
21:07
SPEAKER_02: They don't do that.
21:10
SPEAKER_00: Boy, Mike McCarthy was so good at that at his peak, wasn't he?
21:14
SPEAKER_02: Finding the mismatch.
21:18
SPEAKER_02: Yep.
21:19
SPEAKER_02: He believed football was a matchups game.
21:22
SPEAKER_02: And I agree.
21:25
SPEAKER_02: You know,
21:25
SPEAKER_02: sometimes he got too far to that side,
21:29
SPEAKER_02: you know, and, you know, sometimes you do have to.
21:34
SPEAKER_02: Play to what the defense is doing.
21:35
SPEAKER_02: But all coaches kind of go from one extreme to the other.
21:41
SPEAKER_02: But the guys who can stay balanced are, I think, the most successful.
21:47
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think I gain more and more respect for his coaching style, too.
21:52
SPEAKER_00: I mean, T.J.
21:53
SPEAKER_00: Lang shared the story after that Cowboys playoff game
21:56
SPEAKER_00: with Mike McCarthy putting his head up in front of the whole team.
22:00
SPEAKER_00: If you get that chance, do it.
22:02
SPEAKER_00: Do it again.
22:03
SPEAKER_00: Do F this, F that.
22:04
SPEAKER_00: Like he gets, it's a human game.
22:06
SPEAKER_00: He doesn't want to zap instinct.
22:08
SPEAKER_00: That stuff matters.
22:09
SPEAKER_00: And Matt LaFleur for a long time is coaching guys up.
22:13
SPEAKER_00: Hey, don't, don't jump in.
22:15
SPEAKER_00: Don't cost us 15 yards.
22:16
SPEAKER_00: Now, The play there against the Jets when Sean Ryan leapt into action
22:21
SPEAKER_00: and Matt LaFleur kind of came to his defense there.
22:23
SPEAKER_00: Who knows?
22:24
SPEAKER_00: Maybe they're figuring that part of football out.
22:27
SPEAKER_00: But for years and years, it was don't cost your team.
22:30
SPEAKER_00: And I don't know.
22:31
SPEAKER_00: Other teams see that on film.
22:33
SPEAKER_00: They see that you're not coming to your teammate's defense and you can push the Packers around.
22:38
SPEAKER_00: I'm sure Ben Johnson's putting that up there in the film room.
22:42
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
22:42
SPEAKER_02: And the other thing that I thought why McCarthy had Success,
22:49
SPEAKER_02: continued success,
22:50
SPEAKER_02: besides having Aaron Rodgers, I mean, let's not diminish that part of it.
22:56
SPEAKER_02: Was that he continually,
22:59
SPEAKER_02: his group continually cultivated offensive linemen and the offensive line.
23:05
SPEAKER_02: You know,
23:05
SPEAKER_02: they had all kinds of injuries through the years, but,
23:09
SPEAKER_02: you know,
23:09
SPEAKER_02: they turned fourth round picks like Josh Sitton and Lang and Bakhtiari and,
23:16
SPEAKER_02: you know, you can go on and on into really good players.
23:23
SPEAKER_02: Big physical.
23:24
SPEAKER_02: They figured out where they should go, what they should, you know, where they should play.
23:28
SPEAKER_02: They were coached really well.
23:30
SPEAKER_02: You know, he had a good offensive line coach in James Campen.
23:34
SPEAKER_02: And just a good offensive staff, I thought, most times.
23:41
SPEAKER_02: And I thought he put all the interest on –
23:47
SPEAKER_02: Knowing that he had to protect Aaron Rodgers.
23:50
SPEAKER_02: I mean, that's his gold piece.
23:52
SPEAKER_02: And so, you know,
23:53
SPEAKER_02: he put him surrounded with a buffer,
23:57
SPEAKER_02: and they were always developing offensive linemen.
24:00
SPEAKER_02: I don't think they've done that very well in the LaFleur area,
24:04
SPEAKER_02: but maybe they're figuring that out now.
24:07
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and look, there's no relationship that matters more than head coach and quarterback.
24:11
SPEAKER_00: I think it's strong.
24:13
SPEAKER_00: Jordan Love, Matt LaFleur.
24:14
SPEAKER_00: I mean, you're seeing it up close too.
24:16
SPEAKER_00: And that's a treasured relationship that they hope here in Buffalo they finally have
24:21
SPEAKER_00: with Joe Brady and Josh Allen.
24:23
SPEAKER_00: So that matters.
24:25
SPEAKER_00: And you can see Love's ascent.
24:27
SPEAKER_00: But the other way you help a quarterback is what you're hitting on, Tom.
24:30
SPEAKER_00: And so where are they with this offensive line?
24:32
SPEAKER_00: Look, do you keep Travis Glover there at guard?
24:36
SPEAKER_00: Do you get Zeitler in action?
24:38
SPEAKER_00: Zeitler's going to want to start.
24:40
SPEAKER_02: What's the best five right now?
24:42
SPEAKER_02: Well, make that decision.
24:44
SPEAKER_02: Make that decision and stick with it.
24:47
SPEAKER_02: Do you trust them to make that right decision?
24:49
SPEAKER_02: I don't know if I do.
24:53
SPEAKER_02: I'm not there at practice,
24:55
SPEAKER_02: so you have to give them some of the benefit of the doubt,
25:00
SPEAKER_02: but just the way some of the decisions they've made in the past,
25:05
SPEAKER_02: moving Elton Jenkins to center,
25:12
SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
25:14
SPEAKER_02: I think they've stabilized the line, but they have to do more than that.
25:20
SPEAKER_02: They have to get them playing at a high level.
25:23
SPEAKER_02: Jordan Love cannot continue to take the hits that he's taken.
25:28
SPEAKER_02: He has just been brutalized.
25:32
SPEAKER_02: The first three games, I think he got hit Knockdown.
25:36
SPEAKER_02: I'm talking about true statistical quarterback hits,
25:39
SPEAKER_02: either sacks or quarterback knockdowns, 34 times in three games.
25:43
SPEAKER_02: I mean, that's a crime.
25:46
SPEAKER_02: And how he completed a pass to Matthew Golden on Sunday where he just got drilled in
25:55
SPEAKER_02: the ribs is beyond me.
25:58
SPEAKER_02: And so, you know,
26:00
SPEAKER_02: if they don't fix that,
26:01
SPEAKER_02: then they're not going anywhere because he's going to get hurt.
26:06
SPEAKER_00: Boy, his toughness is so underrated.
26:08
SPEAKER_00: Jordan Love, isn't it?
26:09
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
26:11
SPEAKER_02: I mean, that whole shot in the
26:12
SPEAKER_00: wild card game,
26:13
SPEAKER_00: like he, Jervon Dexter blasted him and he put that ball the only spot he could.
26:18
SPEAKER_02: He has made, not many people know about it.
26:25
SPEAKER_02: I mean, I've tried to write about it, but...
26:27
SPEAKER_02: He's made a real concerted effort in the offseason to step into his throws
26:32
SPEAKER_02: and stop throwing off his back foot.
26:36
SPEAKER_02: It was like a focus of his during the offseason.
26:41
SPEAKER_02: And you can see that he's doing that.
26:44
SPEAKER_02: He's being more accurate.
26:45
SPEAKER_02: Now, he's missed some throws this year that you go, oh.
26:49
SPEAKER_02: Man, he's better than that.
26:51
SPEAKER_02: But then you see him standing in the pocket and throwing these,
26:57
SPEAKER_02: like against Minnesota, despite guys all over him, he was throwing really...
27:03
SPEAKER_02: I think he's upped his game.
27:10
SPEAKER_02: I think he worked on it.
27:15
SPEAKER_02: I think he's in for a big season, but you can't waste it.
27:18
SPEAKER_02: They've got to figure out a way to protect him, because when he's protected, he's really good.
27:23
SPEAKER_00: God, just quit screwing around.
27:25
SPEAKER_00: Wherever a guy's comfortable, leave him there.
27:29
SPEAKER_00: Aren't these offensive linemen like relaying that message?
27:31
SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
27:32
SPEAKER_00: You talk to any of these guys,
27:34
SPEAKER_00: it's like you get to that laying,
27:37
SPEAKER_00: sitting,
27:38
SPEAKER_00: speaking their own language,
27:39
SPEAKER_00: play to play to the point where you don't even have to say anything.
27:42
SPEAKER_00: You see how the defense is lined up and you know exactly what you're going to do
27:46
SPEAKER_00: because you're playing the same spot game to game, season to season.
27:50
SPEAKER_00: There's a consistency there.
27:51
SPEAKER_00: Injuries alone are going to force you to shuffle and reshuffle and shuffle again
27:57
SPEAKER_00: and I don't know.
27:59
SPEAKER_00: It just seems like shooting yourself in the foot or trying to play
28:02
SPEAKER_00: with one hand tied behind your back to move guys all over the line.
28:08
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
28:09
SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
28:09
SPEAKER_02: I think there's...
28:14
SPEAKER_02: I don't know if it would be different,
28:16
SPEAKER_02: but it might be if they were back in the front office structure of having a GM
28:25
SPEAKER_02: in charge of everything.
28:27
SPEAKER_02: Because, you know, the GM knows his talent.
28:30
SPEAKER_02: And of course,
28:31
SPEAKER_02: he's going to push for the guys he likes and the coaches are going to go,
28:34
SPEAKER_02: no, we got to win now.
28:35
SPEAKER_02: I'm not going to play that guy.
28:36
SPEAKER_02: He's too young.
28:38
SPEAKER_02: I mean, we all know the stories of Terrell Buckley early on that Ron Wolfe,
28:44
SPEAKER_02: you know,
28:45
SPEAKER_02: demanded that Terrell Buckley be played,
28:47
SPEAKER_02: you know,
28:48
SPEAKER_02: and so the GM can be wrong,
28:50
SPEAKER_02: but he can also have some influence and say,
28:54
SPEAKER_02: you know,
28:55
SPEAKER_02: we really know this guy can play guard,
28:58
SPEAKER_02: and I'm sure Gutekunst does,
29:01
SPEAKER_02: but He's got to walk a fine line there,
29:03
SPEAKER_02: too, because LaFleur is in charge of the football side of it.
29:09
SPEAKER_02: Gutekunst is in charge of personnel.
29:12
SPEAKER_02: And they both report to Ed Policy.
29:16
SPEAKER_02: So he can't sit in there and pound his fist and say,
29:20
SPEAKER_02: you've got to play Travis Glover at right guard.
29:23
SPEAKER_02: I don't believe he can.
29:24
SPEAKER_02: I don't sit in those meetings, and I've never heard that that's happened.
29:30
SPEAKER_02: Um, that's part of the structure of it too,
29:32
SPEAKER_02: you know,
29:40
SPEAKER_00: I think my internet's getting a little funky on us here,
29:42
SPEAKER_00: but you know,
29:43
SPEAKER_01: that's such a great point.
29:45
SPEAKER_00: I know the Superbowl winners of last season,
29:47
SPEAKER_00: the Seattle Seahawks turned a pretty big corner
29:51
SPEAKER_00: when they restructured things internally.
29:54
SPEAKER_00: John Schneider and Pete Carroll were both having to report separately.
29:58
SPEAKER_00: I think a lot got lost in translation.
30:00
SPEAKER_00: There would be a problem that could pop up with the coaching staff or the roster.
30:05
SPEAKER_00: Neither one wants to throw each other under the bus.
30:09
SPEAKER_00: They kind of reorganized that hierarchy.
30:12
SPEAKER_00: Schneider got a little more power, a little more say, was able to oversee everything.
30:17
SPEAKER_00: I think a lot of those problems went away.
30:20
SPEAKER_00: I'm sure you could cherry-pick Situations with all different hierarchies that work,
30:25
SPEAKER_00: but stuff can get lost in translation along the way
30:31
SPEAKER_00: if we're reporting separately too.
30:33
SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
30:34
SPEAKER_00: What would be the upside, you think, of the way that Green Bay does it?
30:39
SPEAKER_02: I don't see an upside.
30:41
SPEAKER_02: I've never been in favor of that.
30:44
SPEAKER_02: Because when I started on the beat,
30:48
SPEAKER_02: Lindy Infante and Tom Brotz had equal power and reported to Judge Perrins.
30:57
SPEAKER_02: And that didn't work.
30:58
SPEAKER_02: It just didn't work.
31:00
SPEAKER_02: And then they gave the reins to Wolf and you saw what happened.
31:03
SPEAKER_02: You know, within five years they win a Super Bowl.
31:06
SPEAKER_02: So I've always been a proponent of that and just don't think it works the other way.
31:12
SPEAKER_02: The key, though, is that general manager has to have a great relationship with his head coach.
31:18
SPEAKER_02: They have to be partners, and he has to do whatever's in the best interest.
31:23
SPEAKER_02: Now, McCarthy,
31:25
SPEAKER_02: you have to give him a lot of credit because he had to deal
31:28
SPEAKER_02: with Ted Thompson's frugalness and unwillingness to dip into free agency.
31:34
SPEAKER_02: But he also knew Thompson was going to do whatever he could to get him the best players.
31:42
SPEAKER_02: And be supportive and give him what he wanted, but not only to a degree.
31:50
SPEAKER_02: And you have to give McCarthy a lot of credit.
31:52
SPEAKER_02: He bit his tongue on that for many years because he trusted Ted.
32:00
SPEAKER_02: I think LaFleur and Gutekunst get along.
32:02
SPEAKER_02: I haven't heard anything to the contrary,
32:06
SPEAKER_02: but I do think there's some,
32:08
SPEAKER_02: you know, Thoughts that, okay, you need to coach these guys up.
32:14
SPEAKER_02: You need to make decisions on where to play guys.
32:17
SPEAKER_02: Let's stop the indecision and, and make calls and go with it.
32:25
SPEAKER_02: You know, I mean,
32:28
SPEAKER_02: I'm sorry, the night before the Vikings game or the week of the Vikings game,
32:32
SPEAKER_02: you know, they had, they had played Jacob Burton, their rookie at left guard.
32:39
SPEAKER_02: All at the end of camp after Banks got hurt.
32:43
SPEAKER_02: And then all of a sudden,
32:44
SPEAKER_02: we find out on game day, they've gone to Donovan Jennings to start at left guard.
32:49
SPEAKER_02: Now, Jacob Burton proved not to be ready.
32:54
SPEAKER_02: But why didn't they see that?
32:55
SPEAKER_02: I mean, why wasn't Jennings put in that place much earlier?
33:01
SPEAKER_02: It just, there's always seems like there's indecision on some of these things.
33:07
SPEAKER_00: Again, yeah, things just slipped through the cracks.
33:12
SPEAKER_00: Look, Ron Wolfe and Mike Holmgren,
33:15
SPEAKER_00: you think back to that era and how they all changed everything we know about
33:19
SPEAKER_00: the Green Bay Packers.
33:20
SPEAKER_00: They weren't together a very long time, 92 to 98, right?
33:23
SPEAKER_02: 98, yep, seven years.
33:26
SPEAKER_02: And that was it?
33:27
SPEAKER_02: Two Super Bowls, four NFC Championship games, three or four?
33:34
SPEAKER_02: Four, three, three.
33:36
SPEAKER_01: 95, 96, 97, yeah.
33:40
SPEAKER_02: But, you know,
33:42
SPEAKER_02: that's also like a once-in-a-lifetime kind of pairing where you get a Hall
33:48
SPEAKER_02: of Fame GM and maybe a Hall of Fame coach and
33:52
SPEAKER_02: a Hall of Fame quarterback and a Hall
33:54
SPEAKER_02: of Fame defensive end.
33:56
SPEAKER_00: That's my point.
33:57
SPEAKER_00: Even then, it didn't last forever.
33:58
SPEAKER_00: It didn't last super long.
34:00
SPEAKER_00: This is year eight with this pairing.
34:03
SPEAKER_00: Before we lose, though, Tom,
34:03
SPEAKER_00: Micah Parsons,
34:05
SPEAKER_00: speaking of Free agents,
34:07
SPEAKER_00: you know, signing guys, trading for guys that can make an impact.
34:10
SPEAKER_00: Here's a Hall of Fame level talent that they're still waiting on.
34:14
SPEAKER_00: And Parsons has been really transparent.
34:16
SPEAKER_00: He's got his own podcast.
34:17
SPEAKER_00: He's speaking on it.
34:18
SPEAKER_00: And he's on his own timetable here.
34:21
SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
34:22
SPEAKER_00: I mean, you've been around this game for a very long time.
34:25
SPEAKER_00: When would you anticipate him being back on the field?
34:28
SPEAKER_00: And really, what could he give this team at that point?
34:34
SPEAKER_02: If I was forced to make a prediction,
34:36
SPEAKER_02: I'd say it'll be Carolina on,
34:39
SPEAKER_02: what is that, October 29th or something like that, back home.
34:45
SPEAKER_02: So he's not going to play against the Cowboys.
34:46
SPEAKER_02: He hasn't been practicing.
34:50
SPEAKER_02: I suppose it's possible he could practice starting next week,
34:53
SPEAKER_02: but I don't think you want to start him out in Detroit.
34:57
SPEAKER_02: Detroit's been like a house of horrors for injuries for the Packers,
35:01
SPEAKER_02: so I would not play him there whatsoever.
35:04
SPEAKER_02: Then the next week it's Carolina on grass.
35:08
SPEAKER_02: At home.
35:09
SPEAKER_02: So maybe there.
35:10
SPEAKER_02: I forgot who they play after, Carolina, New England.
35:14
SPEAKER_02: I forgot.
35:16
SPEAKER_02: But one of those weeks in there, you know, it's the last thing you want to do is hurry him.
35:25
SPEAKER_02: It's kind of odd because Gutekunst gave us the impression that he would be back like week five.
35:34
SPEAKER_02: And...
35:36
SPEAKER_02: LaFleur said yesterday that,
35:38
SPEAKER_02: or Monday that, um,
35:41
SPEAKER_02: they're waiting for,
35:42
SPEAKER_02: there's some imbalances in his body,
35:45
SPEAKER_02: like some parts are too strong and,
35:48
SPEAKER_02: you know,
35:49
SPEAKER_02: they're trying to even that out so that he's,
35:53
SPEAKER_02: I kind of understood what he's saying and I'm probably not, um,
35:57
SPEAKER_02: expressing it well,
35:58
SPEAKER_02: but they don't want any,
36:00
SPEAKER_02: you know, physiological, um, They're trying
36:10
SPEAKER_02: to balance his body.
36:14
SPEAKER_02: I don't know how long that's going to take, but he's going to be a factor at some point.
36:19
SPEAKER_02: He's going to come back from that knee injury.
36:23
SPEAKER_02: Will he be the same player?
36:24
SPEAKER_02: I kind of doubt it,
36:26
SPEAKER_02: but Three quarters of Micah Parsons is better than 90% of the edge rushers in
36:34
SPEAKER_02: the NFL.
36:35
SPEAKER_02: He's just a dynamic, dynamic player.
36:39
SPEAKER_02: And it'll help him a lot.
36:41
SPEAKER_02: But his return doesn't mean they're going to the Super Bowl.
36:46
SPEAKER_02: It doesn't mean they've arrived.
36:49
SPEAKER_02: They've got to have a bunch of other guys come through to replace the Edron Coopers
36:54
SPEAKER_02: and Baco Buellis.
36:57
SPEAKER_02: They have,
36:57
SPEAKER_02: I wrote it this morning too,
37:00
SPEAKER_02: they have this like taxi squad of players who are on injured reserve and PUP
37:06
SPEAKER_02: that could actually fill in with some of the injuries they've had.
37:11
SPEAKER_02: Savion Williams is a third round pick from last year that they really, really like.
37:17
SPEAKER_02: And so they lost Sky Moore with an ankle injury against the Bears.
37:21
SPEAKER_02: Now that opens up a spot for Savion Williams.
37:25
SPEAKER_02: Warren Brinson, one of their D tackles, got hurt.
37:29
SPEAKER_02: They really liked him.
37:30
SPEAKER_02: He would have been a starter.
37:32
SPEAKER_02: He's out for a while,
37:33
SPEAKER_02: so that's given some guys, Chris McClellan, one of their rookies, a chance to play.
37:43
SPEAKER_02: With Parsons out, Denai, Dennis Sutton has played pretty well.
37:49
SPEAKER_02: They've got a nose tackle who can...
37:51
SPEAKER_02: Who had an Achilles injury last year.
37:53
SPEAKER_02: They like a lot.
37:54
SPEAKER_02: And he'll end up replacing Hargrave.
37:57
SPEAKER_02: So they have the talent.
38:00
SPEAKER_02: They just have to put it together.
38:02
SPEAKER_02: They have to get the most out of these guys.
38:04
SPEAKER_02: Maybe those guys don't come through for them.
38:07
SPEAKER_02: Very possible they don't.
38:08
SPEAKER_02: But they're there.
38:10
SPEAKER_02: And somehow those coaches have to milk the most out of those guys.
38:16
SPEAKER_00: Man, incredible breakdown, Tom.
38:17
SPEAKER_00: And look, if a star could just...
38:20
SPEAKER_00: Develop out of thin air.
38:22
SPEAKER_00: I mean, and there's some guys that are maybe close.
38:23
SPEAKER_00: Evan Williams, there's times he looks like the best safety in football.
38:27
SPEAKER_00: I mean, he was great down there in Tampa.
38:29
SPEAKER_00: That would go a long way too.
38:31
SPEAKER_00: You know,
38:31
SPEAKER_00: if a guy can get to an A-level talent,
38:33
SPEAKER_00: that stratosphere that can make some of those problems,
38:36
SPEAKER_00: some of those injuries go away around them and just make those two or three plays
38:40
SPEAKER_00: a game that change everything, that'd go along.
38:42
SPEAKER_00: Maybe Javon Bullard is that player, right?
38:44
SPEAKER_00: You thought Edger and Cooper could be that guy.
38:46
SPEAKER_00: He's done.
38:47
SPEAKER_00: Devontae Wyatt had some moments against Chicago.
38:50
SPEAKER_00: That would certainly help this defense, Parsons or no Parsons.
38:54
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and you know, if...
38:58
SPEAKER_02: Brinson will come back at some point during the middle of the year
39:02
SPEAKER_02: and have fresh legs and maybe can be a factor late in the year.
39:10
SPEAKER_02: Has to stay healthy, of course.
39:13
SPEAKER_02: There's some other guys.
39:14
SPEAKER_02: They still have Luke Musgrave.
39:16
SPEAKER_02: I don't know what his situation's going to be.
39:18
SPEAKER_02: He's got a neck injury and they're still waiting.
39:22
SPEAKER_02: But he could be a factor in the pass game a little bit.
39:28
SPEAKER_02: It's, you know, you've got players, now you've got to, it sort of reminds me of the 2010 team.
39:36
SPEAKER_02: They kept having injuries,
39:38
SPEAKER_02: but they kept finding guys who raised their level of play enough that they could get
39:44
SPEAKER_02: to the Super Bowl.
39:45
SPEAKER_02: You know, they had, just like this team, has three really good DBs.
39:53
SPEAKER_02: You know, they got Bullard, they got...
39:56
SPEAKER_02: Evan Williams and McKinney.
39:59
SPEAKER_02: And Cissé is kind of like the Sam Shields of that group.
40:03
SPEAKER_02: And, you know, that turned out to be huge.
40:07
SPEAKER_02: So they have to continue to develop that.
40:09
SPEAKER_02: Gannon's got to figure out how to use those guys to their advantage.
40:13
SPEAKER_02: That's there.
40:14
SPEAKER_02: The talent is there.
40:16
SPEAKER_02: Now it's whether they can get the most out of it.
40:21
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's like find your Bruce Wilkerson on the line from 96.
40:24
SPEAKER_00: Find your James Starks at running back from 2010.
40:27
SPEAKER_00: Howard Green, right?
40:29
SPEAKER_00: There's a handful of guys that just gave you exactly what you needed.
40:35
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
40:35
SPEAKER_00: All right, well, we got to let you get up there to Green Bay, Wisconsin.
40:38
SPEAKER_02: Hey, yeah, I do have to get up there and go fish out some kind of story.
40:45
SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
40:47
SPEAKER_02: I don't want to cut you off.
40:48
SPEAKER_02: If you have any ideas, call me on the way.
40:51
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, hey, why not?
40:54
SPEAKER_00: No, thank you so much, Tom.
40:56
SPEAKER_02: Maybe your listeners can all send me emails about story ideas.
41:01
SPEAKER_00: Oh, absolutely.
41:04
SPEAKER_00: We'll definitely have to swindle you back on the Go Long pod throughout the season
41:11
SPEAKER_00: if you'll join us, Tom.
41:12
SPEAKER_00: This was awesome.
41:13
SPEAKER_00: The absolute best on the beat, Tom Silverstein, Milwaukee Journal Sentinel, PackersNews.com.
41:20
SPEAKER_00: Read all of his columns.
41:22
SPEAKER_00: Join his chat and our chat, right?
41:24
SPEAKER_00: Pull up both windows and join a couple conversations.
41:29
SPEAKER_00: Why not?
41:30
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
41:31
SPEAKER_00: Hey, when I get on out there, we got to get together.
41:36
SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much, Tom.
41:38
SPEAKER_00: We'll do it again soon.
41:41
SPEAKER_00: We'll do it again soon.
41:42
[music]