Latest / Elon Musk Podcast / Late last night Elon Musk Sen. Joni Ernst (R-IA) and Vivek Ramaswamy held an X Spaces event to discuss the newest efforts of DOGE to cut government

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Late last night Elon Musk Sen. Joni Ernst (R-IA) and Vivek Ramaswamy held an X Spaces event to discuss the newest efforts of DOGE to cut government · Elon Musk Podcast

0:01
Hey everybody. Welcome back to the Elon Musk
0:04
Podcast. This is a show where we discuss
0:07
the critical crossroads, the Shape, SpaceX, Tesla X, The
0:11
Boring Company, and Neurolink. I'm your host, Will Walden.
0:19
Humanitarian efforts in in Ukraine.
0:24
So I wanted to know exactly how those dollars were being spent
0:30
and not. Just a reasonable request.
0:32
Yes, Oh my gosh. And and I shared this with you
0:35
earlier, Elon, just privately, but we got all kinds of threats
0:39
from USAID because I was trying to exercise my oversight
0:46
capacity in Congress. So they that's that's.
0:50
Just shocking. I mean, it's, it's how I mean
0:53
honestly, it's, it's outrageous that a, a taxpayer funded
0:57
organization would threaten AUS senator who is simply trying to
1:03
figure out if American taxpayer money is being spent correctly
1:08
and, and, and not fraudulently. Yes.
1:11
And So what my staff and I had estimated was that 30 to 40% of
1:18
of the USAI DS awards would go to indirect costs.
1:22
So their, their overhead, you know, their rents, employees,
1:27
what are they looking at? But the bank, OK, but but OK,
1:34
after months and months and months of obstruction where
1:39
USAID wouldn't let us in, they told us the, the, the NYCRA that
1:43
negotiated indirect cost rate agreements is a lot of, you
1:46
know, government jargon. But anyway, the, the indirect
1:49
cost, they said that the database, oh, it doesn't exist.
1:53
That was a lie. That was a lie.
1:56
It was false because we found it.
1:59
And then we were told we weren't allowed to access the database.
2:04
And then that's when Congressman McCall and I came together and
2:08
we launched an official congressional investigation so
2:12
that we could gain access to the raids.
2:15
And then after about 6 more months of negotiations, then my
2:19
staff was finally allowed to access very limited data.
2:24
They were allowed to go into a room and they couldn't take
2:28
notes. They were on camera the whole
2:30
time. They couldn't remove any of the
2:33
information. But what my staff found is you
2:37
were laughing at that 30 to 40% because that is outrageous.
2:42
That was understated. In some of the cases, the NYFRA
2:46
rates were upwards towards anywhere from 50 to 60%.
2:51
And that doesn't include the cost for subcontractors, what
2:54
the subcontractors were adding on.
2:57
So this is the problem with USAID and that's why, Elon, I'm
3:01
just, I am with you on this because so much of that taxpayer
3:07
money is not even going to, you know, we love to feel good about
3:12
helping starving children and name your country, but it's not
3:16
going there. It's going to it's going to pay
3:19
rent in Paris. It's going to support somebody's
3:22
fancy dinner to entertain whoever.
3:25
Yeah, exactly. So to be clear, in shutting
3:30
down, which we're in the process of doing shutting down USAID,
3:33
the the, the, the reason for that as opposed to simply, you
3:37
know, trying to do, do some minor house cleaning, is, is
3:40
that as we dug into the USAUSAID, it became apparent
3:44
that what we have here is, is not an apple with a worm in it,
3:48
but we have actually just a bowl of worms.
3:51
And so at the point which you don't really like, if you've got
3:54
an apple, it's got a worm in it, maybe you can take the worm out.
3:56
But if you've got actually just a bowl of worms, it's hopeless.
4:01
And yours ID is a bowl of worms. There, there is no apple.
4:07
And when there is no apple, this, this, you've just got to
4:10
basically get rid of the whole thing.
4:12
That is why it's it's got to go. You know, it's, it's, it's, it's
4:16
beyond, it's beyond repair. So yeah.
4:20
There's a solution to this, which is that let's say
4:22
something's got that the people of this country just demand
4:26
needs to exist again, it can always be voted back into
4:30
existence by Senator Ernst and her colleagues.
4:33
And and totally the fact that that isn't going to happen.
4:36
Exactly, exactly why many of these agencies, you know.
4:39
Really, deletion is the only answer that's left.
4:43
Well, yes. Well, well, that's exactly
4:45
right. If if if, if it turns out we
4:48
really need such an organization in the future, we just create
4:51
it. Problem solved.
4:53
By the people. Yes, by the people, answerable
4:56
and and answerable to the people and to the people's elected
5:00
representatives. That is the way that government
5:03
is supposed to work. That I I agree and more
5:07
transparency, you know, sunshine is the best disinfectant out
5:13
there and then. It's sunshine that tells you
5:15
something. Yeah.
5:18
So, you know, we really, we need to be able to exercise our
5:22
oversight. And this is where we have been
5:24
blocked so long in Congress. I mean, you can go on to my on
5:29
to my official website on the Internet.
5:32
You can look through my priorities, go to my my squeal
5:37
area. You can go back.
5:38
I've got the last several years on there of, of efforts, whether
5:42
it's USAID, you know, NIH, the National Institutes of Health,
5:48
those taxpayer dollars that were going to China's Wuhan Institute
5:51
of Virology, SNAP over payments through USDA and the state.
5:59
I mean, you name it, the gosh, just even my back to work, my
6:06
back to work report, you know, the out of the office that we've
6:10
talked so much about. And on day one, you know, the
6:14
president came in and said, hey, everybody back to work.
6:17
You know, I don't, I don't think most Americans understand that
6:22
only 6% of our federal workforce shows up to work in the office
6:27
every single day. Only 6%, yes.
6:31
And that's really, it's, it's truly insane, in fact, and, and
6:34
the, one of one of the most insane things I've seen was that
6:39
I, I was speaking with the, with the hopefully asking to be
6:42
Attorney General Pam Bondi. And, and she, she, she was
6:46
telling me that the, the US engraving is Russia.
6:51
I guess we're used to the US Mint, which is actually the,
6:54
the, the building that is an historic building, actually a, a
6:57
beautiful building is, is here in DC and the windows are all
7:01
broken and has turned into a homeless encampment.
7:04
That that means like this nobody, nobody like this, no one
7:08
comes to work to such a degree that this beautiful building has
7:13
all windows broken and has turned into a homeless
7:15
encampment in downtown DC. That's how absurd it is.
7:20
It's it's beyond belief. Yeah.
7:23
And that's why so, so many of these buildings, if, if we could
7:29
repopulate them, that would be great.
7:33
And that way we can have oversight and make sure
7:36
employees are are doing what they're supposed to do.
7:40
You know, I'm going to hammer on USAID one more time.
7:45
You know, we, yeah. So we, we talk about the
7:48
locality pay abuse. And that's what happens when
7:52
people aren't working in the office, what they're doing in DC
7:57
and not everyone. I don't want to accuse every
7:59
federal worker of being a bad actor, but but I have seen so
8:04
many examples of this. We had a USAID employee that was
8:07
falsely using an office supply retailer's mailing address, you
8:13
know, think like Staples and places like that, using that
8:17
address in Virginia to defraud the taxpayers by claiming higher
8:22
Washington, DC, DC locality pay. But they were actually living in
8:27
another state full time and they had the full knowledge and
8:33
assistance of their supervisor in pulling off this scam.
8:38
And then the and then the IG. The USAIDIG blew off my request
8:46
for an investigation. What did they give?
8:50
Well that that seems I mean these.
8:53
How can they do that? They can.
8:55
How can? They.
8:58
This is the problem we have is that there are checks and
9:02
balances in place where we can write letters all day and we can
9:06
request IG oversight, but if that IG says I'm not going to
9:12
investigate, I'm not interested. I, as a United States Senator,
9:18
don't have the power to force them to do it, and This is why
9:23
I'm so excited that we have DOGE and that we have a president
9:30
that's willing to back us up. Absolutely.
9:36
So really, none of this could be done without the full support of
9:38
the president, You know, and with regard to the USAID stuff,
9:43
I went, went over it with him, you know, in detail.
9:46
And, and he, he agreed with the that we should, we should shut
9:50
it down. I mean, that's, I want to be
9:52
clear. That's, you know, and I actually
9:55
checked with him a few times, you know, Are you sure?
9:58
Like, yes. So we're shutting it down.
10:02
And yeah, it's it's a, it's also incredibly politically partisan
10:08
and has been supporting radical left causes throughout the
10:11
world, including things that are anti American, which is insane.
10:16
Right. And that's why, you know, they,
10:18
there are probably some arguments to be made about what
10:21
could be important work that falls under USAID.
10:24
But the fact of the matter is that it's been, it has been
10:27
overshadowed by these bad actors.
10:30
So if they are truly good pro American programs, then let's
10:35
move them to the State Department.
10:37
Let's make sure we have proper oversight.
10:40
Let's make sure that when senators and congressmen are
10:42
asking for documents that they provide them in a timely manner.
10:47
Let's make sure the I GS are upfront and honest and wanting
10:50
to be the watchdog over the agencies that they are charged
10:54
with. I mean, this is not rocket
10:56
scientist and you're a rocket scientist.
10:59
This is. This is this is common, this is
11:02
simply common sense and and being responsive to the
11:05
electorate and you know, that's, that's you, you just can't have
11:10
these institute these sort of institutions which are taking
11:14
less taxpayer money, but then are are not answerable to to
11:18
elected representatives of the public.
11:20
Then it's they're totally disconnected.
11:23
So I it's sort of, I call it like we, we must move away from
11:28
rule of the Bureau to, to rule of the the people, demos and.
11:34
You know, I'm, I would say I'm hopeful that some of this
11:36
creates momentum joining with centers with some of your
11:40
colleagues as well in passing the REINS Act, right.
11:44
I mean, half of this is decades of Congress effectively just
11:49
punting off the responsibility to avoid accountability.
11:52
Not not you, but many of your colleagues over the years.
11:55
And, you know, hopefully if this is a catalyst to say Congress in
11:59
the Senate, say we make take the law making power back to the
12:03
elected representatives of the people and, you know, get the
12:06
kinds of things done that haven't gotten done for years,
12:09
like the Rains Act and other mechanisms to say law making
12:13
power comes back to Congress, I think that could be one of the
12:16
best things to come out of all of this.
12:18
I'm hopeful that happens this time.
12:19
I know you're supportive. Yeah.
12:20
Yeah. I mean.
12:21
Like fundamentally, there's, there's, there's got to be a
12:22
feedback loop to the people. You can't have these
12:26
organizations that are just disconnected from the, the, the
12:30
will of the people. Like I said, you just
12:32
fundamentally do not have a democracy in that situation.
12:35
You have you have tyranny of the bureaucracy, which is just
12:39
inappropriate and needs to end. By the way, like, you know,
12:43
who's pumped up about you bringing everybody back to work
12:45
is actually Muriel Bowser, mayor of DC.
12:49
And you're talking about the homeless encampments.
12:52
I talked to her maybe what, last month or month and a half ago?
12:56
And that's a Democrat. Doesn't matter.
12:57
It's basically the base principle of A, self governance
13:01
and B, saving money and making sure that our buildings aren't
13:05
being infested by homeless invasion, but instead is
13:09
actually creating a thriving capital.
13:11
You know, I think is is shockingly a bipartisan idea.
13:15
If we give people the permission to come out as Democrats and say
13:18
those things make sense, which I think we're seeing, some of
13:20
which I think is cool. You're absolutely right.
13:23
The lack of people showing up for work in DC has actually made
13:27
DC look like a ghost town. It's in fact, I mean, parts of
13:30
it really, it looks kind of post apocalyptic in parts of DC
13:33
because once you, once people start coming to work, then then
13:37
the restaurants close down and the stores close down and then
13:39
you just have boarded up stores and restaurants and it destroys
13:45
the, the small businesses in, in that in downtown DC.
13:49
So, you know, yeah. And it's there's a reason why
13:55
where people come to work and and are more effective and more
13:58
collaborative in one place. Yeah.
14:01
We're sort of rediscovering why do you have officers?
14:04
Oh, it turns out there's a reason, you know, so and the
14:10
president has made made this world clear.
14:12
Like they returned to work. That's it.
14:16
End of story. You know so.
14:22
I think the first two weeks have been pretty massive.
14:24
And if it continues at that rate, I mean even if you think
14:27
about one of the big economic questions right now is the 10
14:31
year treasury rates, right, they're going up.
14:33
Bond markets don't like our national debt.
14:36
If this is the pace of what cutting looks like presented in
14:40
a a coherent plan, I'm hopeful that bond investors and credit
14:47
investors in the US government debt can at least say, OK, this
14:49
is positive progress, which actually will bring down not
14:53
only the costs that you're cutting directly, but also our
14:56
interest rate costs. And I think that's really when
14:59
we hit a, you know, virtuous cycle here, which I think could
15:02
happen soon. No, I, I agree actually the, the
15:05
bond marks do not, the bond marks do not currently reflect
15:09
the savings that that I'm confident we can achieve.
15:13
And I'm actually, I'm giving a talk later this week with the JP
15:20
Morgan Chase and Jamie Dimon. And let's develop it.
15:24
Obviously a financial audience and, and, and really to just to
15:28
say, look, if if you're shorting bonds, I think you're on the
15:30
wrong side of the bet. Yeah.
15:33
I mean, you know, it's, it's basically.
15:34
Seriously. Yeah, yeah, it's, it's, it's
15:36
like really like basically the, the bond, I mean, the, the there
15:43
will, there will be less debt needed as we, as we stop wasting
15:48
taxpayer money on, on hasty things like, you know, like
15:51
whatever the the $50 million for condoms to Gaza, which I suspect
15:56
didn't actually end up being condoms in Gaza.
15:58
That's a lot of condoms, guys. What is that a super tank or
16:03
condoms? I mean how many they need.
16:07
Oh my gosh, you guys. That's a real line item.
16:11
Well, don't. I don't doubt that, that we did
16:19
have those items going to Gaza. I don't know if it was that
16:22
many, but. The.
16:28
Problem. Yeah, well, it was it was
16:30
probably that line item, but God knows.
16:33
What it was, really. Right, exactly.
16:35
But that's the problem we have with the budget and why when
16:39
monies flow through all of these entities, we may have a line
16:44
item that goes to say USAID and or maybe goes through USAID to
16:52
the United Nations. And then from the United
16:55
Nations, it goes to a subcontractor and from that
16:58
subcontractor it goes to someone else.
17:01
It is a nightmare trying to follow that money and to
17:05
understand what is actually being used for.
17:08
So again, going back to the transparency, you know, we just,
17:12
we need to make sure that we have our eyes on it and that
17:15
it's easily accessible and maybe not just by members of Congress,
17:19
but also the public as well. I agree it should be if, if it's
17:23
public money being spent, it should be in full view of the
17:27
public. But and, and when they want to
17:30
hide the stuff, it, it frankly, it is the, the reality is it's
17:33
because there's massive fraud and abuse.
17:35
That's the reality. Nobody needs to hide something.
17:38
If, if unless they have something to hide, you know,
17:41
once in a while, you bet something that say an
17:43
intelligence operation or, or like, you know, that, that ha,
17:47
that actually needs to be classified.
17:48
But that's, that's, that's a rare situation.
17:50
That's a tiny fraction of, of, of, of, of expenditures.
17:53
The vast majority of these things is it, it's, it's
17:56
unfortunately a tremendous amount of, of fraud and abuse
17:59
now. And, and what the, the, the
18:01
reason that that is so extreme with the federal government is
18:05
that the, the checks never bounce for the federal
18:08
government. OK, So the federal government
18:10
can always make more money. And the problem is that that in,
18:13
in, in doing so, that's what creates inflation.
18:16
Something that I really want to reinforce for people is that
18:20
it's government spending that creates inflation.
18:22
So when you see prices go up at the grocery store, it's because
18:26
the government spent more money than it brought it into taxes,
18:29
increased the money supply, diluted the value of money and,
18:32
and, and made your made your paycheck go be less valuable.
18:38
It means, it means like the, the prices are going up because of,
18:42
of, of government induced spending, of government spending
18:45
that results in inflation. So now it's, it's just very
18:49
important to connect those dots because people don't they, they
18:53
sort of think like, well, maybe the, the supermarket is taking
18:55
advantage of them and, and they're, they're not, you can
18:57
look at the financials of supermarket.
18:59
They have like 2% margins. So it's, it's, it's got nothing
19:03
to do with price gouging of supermarket.
19:04
It's just that the, the government spent too much that,
19:07
that increased the money supply and diluted the value of
19:09
somebody's paycheck. And that's why the prices go up
19:12
at the, at the grocery store. So the, the, but the good news
19:15
is if, if we, if we solve government overspending and the
19:23
money supply grows at the same rate as the output of goods and
19:27
services, there will be no inflation and the prices in the
19:30
supermarket now will be the same as the prices in the supermarket
19:33
in a year. And that's the Super big deal.
19:35
And that really effects people's lives.
19:37
That's what we're aiming for. And we're going to do everything
19:39
possible to succeed in that goal.
19:42
And I think every dollar saved, I mean, the problem you just
19:46
mentioned, Elon, is exactly why in your interest rates on U.S.
19:50
Treasuries are persistently going up, even if the
19:54
government's trying to make them go down, the markets bidding
19:57
them right back up. But conversely, for every
20:00
dollar, hard dollar actually saved, right?
20:02
So how many of a billion it was in the first two weeks?
20:05
There's actually it's almost like a 2 to one saving because
20:09
that means that the interest rate that lenders to the US
20:12
government charge will go down. At a time when the interest rate
20:16
payment itself on our national debt is one of the biggest items
20:20
of our federal budget. Yeah.
20:21
So that automatically comes down for every one of these other
20:24
savings. Exactly.
20:25
And the only thing to be presented as a coherent plan
20:29
which which I think we're you're already beginning to do that
20:32
alone. I think we'll have a 2 to one
20:34
savings for every dollar that's actually hard dollar that's
20:36
actually saved because you get the interest cost next year that
20:40
comes down as a consequence as well.
20:41
Yeah, that that's, that's actually a very good point just
20:43
made. I just want to basically repeat
20:46
that and reiterate that for the audience.
20:49
When you, you, you get, you actually get a double benefit
20:52
when you bring down government spending it and it's a, it's a
20:56
very important double benefit, which is that you, you, you stop
20:59
inflation and interest payments go down because the government
21:03
is no longer borrowing money. Like, so if, if the government
21:07
is borrowing money, it's actually competing with everyone
21:09
else to borrow money and, and that drives up the interest
21:12
rate. So, so if we solve government
21:16
spending in a in a nutshell, your, your grocery bill stays
21:20
the same, your mortgage payment goes down and your car payment
21:23
goes down and and your credit card bill goes down.
21:27
Exactly. That's that's so I mean, I think
21:30
that's what the people of America want.
21:32
I mean, obviously. Yeah, I couldn't agree more,
21:38
gentlemen. I mean, it's it's really
21:40
important. And I, you know, I'm sitting
21:42
here tonight in Iowa and, you know, I, I took my mom to church
21:48
this morning and man, everybody at church, we all kind of stand
21:52
around afterwards and visit and everybody's just really excited
21:56
about the opportunity that the new administration is, is
21:59
bringing because costs are just through the roof for people in
22:06
my neighborhood in southwest Iowa.
22:08
I mean, it's, it's hard. These are folks just getting up
22:11
every single morning trying to do their job and do the best.
22:15
And yet we as a government have failed to listen to their needs.
22:21
And then to be able to to cut the spending at the federal
22:25
level, to make sure that their taxes stay low and make sure
22:30
that we are paying down our debt.
22:34
No more deficit spending. Let's try and balance this
22:36
budget as best we can. And we've heard plans from, you
22:39
know, Ron Johnson and and others in the Congress.
22:43
But we've really got to get serious about it because like
22:46
every one of my constituents owes $67,000 to our national
22:53
debt. That's outrageous.
22:56
And it's getting worse over time.
22:57
So really, if we don't do something about it, America, is
23:00
it going to go bankrupt? That's the fact.
23:02
So we must do something about it.
23:04
It's imperative. Senator Mike Lee, I see you've
23:07
joined. Would you like to add something
23:09
to this conversation or you've got some great stuff as well to
23:12
talk about? Yeah, I'd love to.
23:15
Thanks so much for the invitation.
23:18
Look, I see this as an inflection point.
23:21
Every 75 to 90 years in Anglo American history, we've seen a
23:25
major upheaval. We had one in 1776, another one
23:30
in 1861, another one in 19372025.
23:34
We're due for one. And I think that's going to be
23:37
the Doge revolution. And I think it has to be about
23:39
much more than just the individualized wasteful spending
23:44
had projects. At the core of all this is a
23:47
fundamental ailment, which is that we've misconstrued the
23:51
purpose of the United States government.
23:53
It's supposed to be about just a small handful of things waits
23:56
and 90 years trademarks, copyrights and patents
23:58
regulating enters that foreign commerce.
24:01
Yeah, no, no, I mean, the founders of the country would,
24:03
it would blow their minds that the that the federal government
24:06
has gotten so gigantic and, and, and is interfering with people's
24:09
lives in so many ways. That's exactly right.
24:14
And then we've compounded the problem.
24:15
Once we lost track of of what the federal government's purpose
24:19
is, we put the wrong branch in charge of the wrong
24:22
responsibilities. We've been making most of our
24:24
law, 100,000 pages a year through the executive branch,
24:28
which the Constitution says you can't do.
24:30
It says you cannot make a federal law unless you go
24:33
through both houses of Congress and then give it to the
24:35
president. So we've destroyed federalism
24:38
and separation of powers. I think for Doge to succeed, we
24:41
have to restore both of those. In my view, the best way to
24:44
start is by passing the REINS Act, which would require
24:47
Congress to enact those laws. And I think to get that this
24:50
year, we've got to attach it to the debt ceiling.
24:52
Bill I, Adam, my base, Mike Lee. I can't, I mean.
24:55
I actually one, one 100%. I mean, what are you saying?
25:00
Is that absolutely true? The, the, there's vast amounts
25:04
of federal right regulation, which are de facto laws that
25:07
are, that are created that, that it's, it's an incomprehensible
25:11
amount. It's literally no human could
25:13
possibly even comprehend it. If you tried your hardest your
25:16
whole life, you couldn't, you could, you could barely
25:19
understand a small fraction of the regulations that, that and,
25:24
and, and these regulations, you know, if you look at them,
25:27
there's millions of them. And it's not like one regulation
25:30
is, is the showstopper. But, but it's, I mean, the way I
25:34
sort of visualize it, it's like, it's like Gulliver, like
25:37
America's like Gulliver tied down by millions of little
25:41
strings and, and we need to cut those strings and free the
25:44
giant. Exactly.
25:49
That's exactly right. Those, those laws which they are
25:51
laws, those will put you in prison.
25:53
Those will shut down your business.
25:55
Those will ruin your life if you did.
25:57
Exactly no different than any of the law.
26:00
It's it's, it's totally crazy. Well, it is exciting, Elon,
26:06
isn't it true President Trump has has an executive order that
26:11
says for every one new regulation that is put into
26:16
place, 10 have to be rescinded. Yes.
26:20
Yes, and now of course, the, the, the, the, you know,
26:24
bureaucracy is going to try to gain that by like having the one
26:27
regulation sort of, you know, when like, so he says, well, I
26:30
have, everyone can ask one question, but then have a
26:33
question in like 10, in like 3, you know, 10 parts.
26:37
So it's possible to gain, it's possible, it's possible to gain
26:40
the regulations. So I, I, I think in addition to
26:44
that executive order, which I certainly applaud, I think we
26:47
need to go in and do wholesale like removal of regulations,
26:52
like regulations basically should be default gone, default
26:55
gone, not default there, default gone.
26:59
And and if it turns out that we missed the mark on a regulation,
27:02
we always add it back in. These regulations are added
27:04
Willy nilly all the time. So we just got to do wholesale
27:08
spring cleaning of regulation and get the government off the
27:12
backs of, of, of, of everyday Americans so people can get
27:15
things done. And, and the government isn't,
27:17
it doesn't have a sort of boot on the neck of, of the average
27:20
Americans, which is because you know, what, what are the, what
27:24
are the, you know, the core founding values of this country?
27:26
What, what has made America great, What will lead to further
27:29
greatness is a focus on merit that you get ahead as a function
27:33
of your hard work and skill and, and, and that you have freedom.
27:37
It's, it's, it's free. It's both the land of freedom
27:40
and opportunity. And, and if the government has
27:43
millions of regulations holding everyone back, well, it's not
27:47
freedom. We've got to restore freedom.
27:51
And by the way, that's copied, multiplied and 50 fold higher
27:57
where each of the 50 states then do the same thing.
28:00
And many of these federal regulations are duplicative of
28:04
the states doing the exact same thing where the bureaucracies in
28:07
each of the states are behaving like the federal government.
28:10
You think about the impact of people's lives.
28:11
It just layers one on top of the other.
28:14
And you know, like you talk about 0 based budgeting.
28:16
I really like this concept of 0 based regulations.
28:20
Yeah, the default is nothing and build back on top.
28:23
Exactly right. I mean it used.
28:25
And that's what our founders wanted, yeah.
28:26
Absolutely. It used to be like not that long
28:29
ago. If you wanted to start a
28:30
business, you just start a business.
28:32
You just go. You know, you, you know, you
28:34
just no license. You can just do it.
28:37
You know, the government's not like prying into every part of
28:39
like get the license for this, do the license for that, get
28:42
17,000 permits. I mean, like you look at La and,
28:46
and like how it's like, I mean, when I lived in LA, it was hard
28:50
to get a permit to remodel your kitchen.
28:52
And now with this disaster that's happened in LA, this
28:56
terrible tragedy, the just the sheer number of permits were
29:00
fired to build a house are staggering.
29:04
Basically, they've made it illegal.
29:07
So like there's, but we got to start somewhere on the
29:11
regulatory front and, and suddenly, at least if we address
29:14
federal regulation, then, you know, people can choose to move
29:18
from, move to, from one state to another and still remain in
29:21
America and, and move to the, the state that has, you know,
29:25
less regulation with the government is less, you know,
29:28
gives you more freedom. And you've got that competition
29:31
between states. You've got that federal system.
29:33
That was meant to be the case. That was how the country was,
29:36
was created. Like, let the states compete and
29:39
and and and and and. If your state is, is, is, is, is
29:43
being, is being oppressive, you can go to a neighboring state
29:46
and and live there. That's the whole idea.
29:50
Federalism is the answer, no doubt, but you got two things
29:52
going for us right now in the country that haven't happened in
29:56
a long time. 1 is a willing President Donald Trump who
29:59
actually believes everything that all four of us have just
30:02
said, which is a beautiful thing, and without that it
30:05
wouldn't be possible. The more I've gotten to know
30:10
President Trump, the more I like him.
30:12
Frankly, I love the guy. He's great.
30:16
Yeah. And he's he's he's full, he's
30:19
full bore more than any president we've had since the
30:22
creation of the administrative state.
30:23
So I think that's number one. And #2 is thanks to him actually
30:26
in his first term, you got a Supreme Court that six to three
30:31
vehemently agrees with everything we've just said.
30:34
Yes. And so I think it's possible.
30:38
Yeah, in fact. It's actually possible.
30:40
Yes, In fact, if if we if it's if it's not possible now, it'll
30:43
never be possible. This is our this is our shot.
30:46
This is the best hand of cards we're ever going to have.
30:49
And, and if we don't take advantage of this, this best
30:51
hand of cards is never going to happen.
30:53
So we're going to do it. I agree.
30:55
I would never, Yeah, now or never.
30:58
And I, I do think you're right, Vivek.
31:00
I mean, with the the first administration of President
31:05
Trump and kind of lessons learned through that
31:09
administration and now in the second administration, the stage
31:13
is set and he knows how to aggressively tackle a lot of
31:18
these issues that have plagued us for years.
31:21
And folks ask me, oh, Trump's, you know, first 100 days, was
31:25
it? What is that going to be like?
31:27
And I'm like, forget the 100 days folks.
31:30
You know it's going to happen a lot faster than that.
31:33
And he needs to continue to be aggressive.
31:37
So, and we all know there's going to be bumps along the way.
31:41
Of course there are because we're moving at the the speed of
31:44
relevance here. But we've got to get in there
31:49
and make an impact so that our constituents can actually see
31:54
the benefit because we've got a tough mid mid cycle or mid mid
32:01
presidential year election coming up in 2026.
32:06
And we cannot lose the House or the Senate because then the
32:10
president will be dead in the water.
32:12
Yeah. And we just need to move out.
32:14
Well, that that's move out, Yeah.
32:16
I mean, I think that's really the, the, the people will judge
32:20
the performance and whether actually we we got things done
32:23
and whether things were better off, you know, and in two years.
32:27
And I think if, if, if people feel like, yeah, they're better
32:30
off, the country's working better.
32:32
They feel like, you know, there's, you know, the reward
32:37
for, for hard work. Is there that that they're, you
32:42
know, their paychecks going further than it used to that
32:45
their standard of living is better?
32:46
You know, their mortgages lower the credit card bills lower the
32:51
prices at the at the at the stores are the same, you know,
32:54
haven't like risen dramatically. Then I think there's no problem
32:58
the the you know, we will win the next election.
33:05
The people will reward that performance.
33:08
So I think that's but, but you know, it's, that's, that's what
33:11
needs to happen. And if, but I think if it does
33:15
happen, there will be a Republican one in the midterms
33:19
and which is, which is usually, which is unusual.
33:23
But I think if, if, if we, if we make, make these goals happen, I
33:28
think we'll actually have an increased majority in the House
33:32
and Senate and you'll be able to continue to, to, you know, as
33:37
the president would say, make America great and, and even
33:40
greater so. Love it.
33:43
The case the the blanket that I mean, Elon, you and I have
33:46
talked about this. Mike Lee, you and I have talked
33:48
about this. But you know, might as well just
33:50
say it here as well is when in doubt, push it to the states,
33:56
right? If there's some doubt about OK,
33:58
well, we're not sure about this regulation.
34:01
You got a whole nuclear energy framework at the federal level.
34:03
You have an entire one in each of the 50 states.
34:05
Same thing for spending or some other program.
34:07
Are people going to really suffer if this is taken away?
34:12
Federalism is the answer. Just push it to the states.
34:14
And, you know, I think that that's a big part of, you know,
34:17
obviously what I'm looking to do next.
34:18
But it's governors across the state.
34:21
Whatever. Let them bear the load of what
34:23
the federal government needed because that's actually what the
34:26
founders envisioned in the 1st place.
34:28
And Mike, you've been a crusader for this since day one.
34:33
No, that, that, that is, that is right.
34:35
That is the, the whole reason I, I ran for this job 15 years ago.
34:40
The, the fact is the people of our country are upset.
34:44
They're upset about our government because it manages
34:47
things poorly. And what a lot of people are
34:50
starting to grasp is that it's not just a matter of changing
34:55
from the red team to the blue team and back to the red team
34:57
and making sure you've got better personnel in there,
34:59
because better personnel won't make those same mistakes and
35:02
won't fund the stupid studies about the drunk gerbils on a
35:05
treadmill. The the the point is, it's
35:08
poorly run because when the US government is doing all kinds of
35:12
things that it's not supposed to be doing, that should be left to
35:15
the states or to the people, in the words of the 10th Amendment,
35:18
it becomes very poor, very bad at doing you things that it is
35:23
supposed to do. You can't be good at running the
35:26
Pentagon and at at making sure that traffic lanes, lines of
35:31
commerce are open when you are doing all kinds of things that
35:36
the federal government wasn't built to do.
35:38
We're using it as the wrong tool.
35:40
There are very few things that federal government currently
35:43
does that the federal government is itself uniquely equipped and
35:47
constitutionally authorized to do.
35:48
That's what we got to get back to.
35:49
And that's why this is going to be a a painful, radical
35:52
transformational change in many circumstances.
35:55
But it's going to be a huge relief to the American people
35:59
once we get through the initial shock and once we get through
36:03
the stage where the the media is telling us the sky is going to
36:06
fall, dogs and cats living together in the streets,
36:08
apocalyptic stuff. Once they realize that's not
36:11
true, they're going to feel this huge burden lifted.
36:14
That's what we want. We want a better future for
36:16
America. We can't get to the.
36:18
Absolutely. Returning to our founding
36:20
document. Exactly, I couldn't agree with
36:25
you more and I'm actually pretty optimistic that we're going to
36:29
make it happen. You know, it's going to it's
36:30
going to this is this is I think things going to happen.
36:33
So the progress is good so far and if it keeps accelerating,
36:38
then I think it's going to it's going to be awesome.
36:41
So, you know, like, like the cost of excess, excess
36:47
regulation on, on economic growth and prosperity is like
36:52
really underestimated. Like if you basically, you know,
36:55
don't even permit, allow people to do things like make it
36:58
illegal. Well, you can't, you can't, the
37:01
boulders can't build. America is a nation of boulders.
37:06
And but, but we need to give the boulders permission to build.
37:10
And that's that's really what the deregulation is all about,
37:15
just letting people do things. Deregulation of meritocracy go
37:20
hand in hand. Actually, there are two sides of
37:23
this coin. And you want to actually measure
37:26
Doji's success is not just the deficit reduction.
37:30
I don't think that that's the sole metric, although it's a
37:33
really important one. And bringing down the national
37:35
debt and the interest payment cost as a consequence, that's
37:38
really important. But actually a lot of these
37:42
benefits of delivering economic growth won't be measured in this
37:45
year's deficit reduction, but will be measured in long run GDP
37:50
growth, long run economic growth.
37:52
What wrong or prosperity the country.
37:54
Yeah. And I think that that's that's
37:56
equally important. I actually, I'm optimistic that
37:59
we'll see the material impact in FY20 6, which starts in October.
38:05
You know, a lot of the stuff I think like, I think we'll make
38:08
significant gains in FY25 government, government financial
38:11
year 25, which ends, ends in September.
38:16
And, but, but I, I think that like we're, we're the sort of
38:20
metric we're tracking sort of kind of startup style or, or
38:23
just, and we're going to be posting more and more detail on
38:26
the, the DOGE website and DOGE handle on, on X is, is just in.
38:34
So we can see in detail like this is this is where where
38:37
we're seeing the delta in spending between current
38:41
spending and government financial year 25, which or 26,
38:44
which starts in, in October. And, and that, that number is,
38:48
is really, you know, which we think it's at this point over a
38:52
billion dollars there, maybe 2 billion, maybe approaching 3.
38:56
And, and, and, and I, I think we can, I think we can take a
39:04
trillion dollars out of the, out of the deficit next year.
39:07
Like, you know, obviously this is going to require, you know,
39:12
strong support from the president, but thus far we that
39:14
we certainly have that and also support of the Congress and
39:19
support and also hopefully support from the judiciary as
39:22
well. But, but it's, it's, I mean,
39:27
basically the goal in a nutshells is pretty
39:29
straightforward. It's like we have a $2 trillion
39:32
deficit, which is far, which is a far in excess of economic
39:36
growth. If we can get that deficit in
39:38
half from 2 trillion to one trillion and we can get the
39:41
economic growth to match that one trillion growth, the money
39:45
supply, that means there will be no inflation and the and the and
39:49
and and also the interest rates will drop.
39:51
Credit card interest down, mortgage interest down 4:00 PM
39:55
and interest down and, and, and prices at the store stay the
39:59
same. That is a great outcome for
40:01
people and I think we could say I think we can do it.
40:07
You know, people say it's unrealistic.
40:09
Yeah, people say it's unrealistic is it's.
40:11
But you know, the funniest part about this is just the hard
40:15
number here. And the four of us here know the
40:17
answer. But for people who are
40:18
listening, it might just be, might be eye opening.
40:20
Where like how much money did the federal government actually
40:23
spend last year? Not the mumbo jumbo non
40:26
discretionary this and not like just like how much did the
40:28
federal government spend last year?
40:30
It was about 7 trillion. It's just under $7 trillion.
40:34
How much did we spend in this like ancient time period known
40:38
as 20/19? Right, not that long.
40:40
Ago like this year called 2019. Not that long.
40:42
Well, kind of remember 2019, there's 4 1/2 less, less than
40:46
four and a half, 4.45 less than about four and a half trillion
40:49
dollars. That's 2 1/2 trillion right
40:51
there. So if you just go back to 2019,
40:53
that's 2 1/2 trillion, which is insane actually that they think
40:56
that that's impossible is 20/19 was not that long.
40:58
Ago, right? And you know, it's too.
41:01
Precisely, and nobody thought that they were an apocalyptic
41:04
hellscape underway in 20/19/22 was.
41:06
Pretty cool actually. I like 2019 well. 19 was not
41:09
some nightmarish hellscape, exactly.
41:11
In fact, we got and Mike. Things were just fine in 2019.
41:16
Mike can vouch for this too, though.
41:18
What we saw with COVID, as we were pushing all those dollars
41:23
out the door, they started a lot of programs with those dollars
41:28
and people just continue to expect those dollars to come
41:31
even though we're way beyond COVID, Yes, way beyond COVID.
41:36
So often people will say like, well, you can't reduce deficit
41:38
that much because what about all the entitlement spending?
41:40
You know, like there's the sort of guaranteed spending.
41:44
Well, but here's the thing, this and especially during COVID, as
41:48
you alluded to that there was actually a massive growth, a
41:51
massive increase in the amount of fraud and waste in
41:53
entitlements with with like fake people, like collecting Social
41:58
Security, like bogus payments to Medicare.
42:02
It is the level of fraud is actually staggering.
42:07
And it just cutting, cutting back on that.
42:09
And by the way, it's not just even US fraud rigs.
42:11
I don't think no people realize this, but there's the, the, the,
42:16
the estimates I've seen are between 100 and $200 billion in
42:20
foreign fraud fraud rings. There are professional foreign
42:24
fraud rings operating that are taking somewhere between 100 and
42:27
$200 billion a year of, of US taxpayer money out of the
42:31
country. And a lot of people realize that
42:34
it is. And like, so the fraud in this,
42:37
in that case isn't even going to American fraudsters.
42:40
It's going somewhere in other countries.
42:44
Well, Ivan, I sent that example to you the other day, sat down
42:49
with a friend of yours, works in ID technology, and he showed me
42:54
that video of a deep fake where it was a, it was a Chinese
43:00
scammer trying to receive U.S. Federal government benefits.
43:08
You know, just it's out. It's outrageous.
43:11
But so much of that money the Chinese scammers are taking out
43:15
of the pockets of our taxpayers. Yes, and, and I mean, there's
43:19
really, there's, there's, there's American entitlements
43:23
are being deported by people not even in the US and, and from,
43:27
from many other countries because the, the, the fraud
43:30
controls are so weak on the entitlements programs.
43:34
The, the, the due diligence is so, is so bad that it's actually
43:38
possible to, to operate hundreds, if not thousands of
43:43
fake people and get entitlements sent to you that you then take
43:48
the money out of the country, out of the United States.
43:51
This is happening as we speak. It's utterly insane.
43:55
So, so This is why I'm, I'm actually quite optimistic that,
43:58
that, that a trillion dollars can be saved just by addressing
44:02
waste, fraud and abuse. It, It, it's the like, like
44:07
it's, it's I, I, while it's a lot of work, I, I don't think
44:11
this is some instrumental task. I am confident it can be done.
44:16
And we'll do everything in our power to, to, to make it happen.
44:20
And, and I think that that'll be if, if, if we succeed, and I
44:24
hope, you know, I'd like to ask for the support of the American
44:28
people because we're going to get a lot of opposition.
44:31
Let me tell you, like you know, from the, what I remember most
44:35
from from one of the things I remember from the PayPal days
44:38
was that you know who complaints the loudest is the fraudsters.
44:43
OK, so, but like the when somebody is trying to commit
44:48
fraud to PayPal, where we see the most amount of righteous
44:52
indignation, like it would be like immediate over the top
44:55
righteous indignation was from the fraudsters, not from honest
44:59
people, because honest people are like, oh, I think there's
45:02
something wrong with my account. I guess I wonder what's wrong?
45:04
Let me inquire. And and but the fraudsters will
45:06
come at you immediately. This is, it's like, it's like a
45:10
tell you that that someone's actually doing for it because
45:13
the level of of sort of faux outrage is way over the top.
45:17
So, so we're going. To get a lot of that.
45:19
A lot of people claiming with, with, with fake outrage, you
45:23
know, claiming that they're sort of, you know, it's sort of a
45:28
single mother with, with, with kids just trying to feed them.
45:30
Meanwhile, it's like some dude operating a fraud ring out of
45:35
another country. Actually, you know, that's,
45:39
that's, that's what the kind of thing we'll see.
45:42
So really, you know, I would like to ask for the support of
45:46
the American people in pursuit of this goal.
45:49
And, and, and bearing in mind that we're going to see some
45:52
pretty outrageous stuff from the frauds as we crack down on
45:54
fraud, they're going to be the loudest complainers.
45:57
So, you know, to anyone in America listening to this US
46:01
sport in pursuit of this goal, it is very much appreciated.
46:07
Thank you. Absolutely.
46:12
And and thank you Ilan and Vivek.
46:16
I think we've got a ways to go, but I'm glad it's rolling along.
46:19
And this doge has been the most aggressive effort really to
46:23
downsize or right size our government since probably at
46:28
least the Reagan Revolution. So just excited to be part of it
46:33
and, and have the support of the American people as we move
46:37
through and, you know, make them squeal in Washington, DC.
46:41
Yeah. Now, thanks to DJT, thank you
46:45
Elon, and you keep keep kicking ass.
46:49
And when in doubt, send it to the States and we'll take care
46:52
of it there. Exactly.
46:54
All right, cool. Well, thank you.
46:57
Thank you, Senator, Senator Sarah Lee for and and perhaps
47:01
one day, Senator Ramaswamy. Well, Governor Ramaswamy.
47:04
Yeah, that's kind of the direction we're headed.
47:08
And, and everyone who, who tuned in and once again, I'm asking
47:15
for, for your support for, for noble goal.
47:18
And you know, please help in any way you can.
47:21
Like sometimes it's like the small things that that happen on
47:24
the side that, you know, does this through a small thankless
47:28
tasks that actually will result. Like the doge is going to win.
47:33
Doge will win. If, if millions of people
47:36
support it in ways that I wouldn't, I wouldn't even know
47:40
how they supported it, but but just that you did.
47:42
And so, you know, thank you for the Unknown Soldier.
47:48
Yeah, definitely. And hey Elon, before we all
47:51
break out of here, I do want to acknowledge the, you know, I've
47:56
I've founded the Senate Doge Caucus on my side of the
48:00
Rotunda. We've got some great Co chairs
48:04
over in the House as well with Pete Sessions and and Aaron Bean
48:12
and Blakemore. They have got now I think over
48:16
100 members of Congress that have joined the Doge caucus and
48:22
we've got 18 and climbing in the United States Senate as well.
48:27
So you and the president and Vivek have all kind of really
48:33
gotten everybody to come together and, and I'm just
48:37
really grateful that we have an outlet and are able to do this.
48:40
So thank you all so much. That sounds good.
48:43
And we'll be doing this this every week.
48:45
So I look forward to having members from the House and, and,
48:49
and other contributors and, and try to keep the people informed
48:54
and, and of the progress and, and I think it'll be very
48:58
interesting to follow along. So thanks.
49:00
Thanks everyone. Thanks so much, Elon.
49:29
Hey, thank you so much for listening today.
49:30
I really do appreciate your support.
49:32
If you could take a second and hit the subscribe or the follow
49:35
button on whatever podcast platform that you're listening
49:37
on right now, I greatly appreciate it.
49:40
It helps out the show tremendously and you'll never
49:43
miss an episode. And each episode is about 10
49:46
minutes or less to get you caught up quickly.
49:49
And please, if you want to support the show even more, go
49:51
to patreon.com/stagezero and please take care of yourselves
49:57
and each other and I'll see you tomorrow.