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The US and the UK Almost Went to War over a Pig · Ridiculous History

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Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of I Heart Radio. Welcome
0:27
Speaker 1: back to the show Ridiculous Historians. Thank you, as always
0:31
Speaker 1: so much for tuning in. Uh, you know, we're no.
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Speaker 1: I think we should change the headline on on this one.
0:39
Speaker 1: It's it's a pretty metal headline for a weird and
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Speaker 1: not super metal story. You know, I would. I would
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Speaker 1: argue Ben that we doubled down and just just simplify
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Speaker 1: it and just call it war Pig. You know what.
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Speaker 1: Actually I am sold on that. And and since our
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Speaker 1: better third, super producer Casey Pegram is on Adventures Today,
1:05
Speaker 1: classes out Man, it's up to us a bet sir
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Speaker 1: off And you know, but I gotta tell you, I
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Speaker 1: think super producer Casey Pegram would uh super approve of
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Speaker 1: the title war Pig because I don't know if you
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Speaker 1: know this, but he is a devout Ozzy Osbourne fanatic.
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Speaker 1: Are you kidding? It's like the only thing he talks
1:28
Speaker 1: about off and you just won't shut up about, you know,
1:32
Speaker 1: iron Man, iron Man, greatest song of all time, Black Sabbath.
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Speaker 1: He's always like he's always pulling the actual ease about
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Speaker 1: Black Sabbath, and he's like, did you know that they
1:41
Speaker 1: were actually a blues band first, and we're like, yeah, Casey,
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Speaker 1: I know so, And actually it wasn't. It was a
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Speaker 1: dove that Ozzy bit the head off of, not a
1:53
Speaker 1: not a rat um. I I don't know. Obviously we
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Speaker 1: are totally putting words into producer Casey Pegram's mouth, but
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Speaker 1: I imagine that he feels okay about Black Sabbath. Maybe,
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Speaker 1: you know, some of Ozzy's latter day stuff got a
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Speaker 1: little sammy, but I think his legacy is safe overall.
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Speaker 1: He's also like the father, the weird, kind of drunk
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Speaker 1: uncle of reality television. Well, you know, one thing I
2:20
Speaker 1: will say about Casey is, uh, it's funny because future
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Speaker 1: Casey is editing this. One thing I will say about
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Speaker 1: him is a lot of people don't know this, but
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Speaker 1: all of Casey's many tattoos are direct references to Black Sabbath.
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Speaker 1: So if you ever meet Casey in person and you
2:39
Speaker 1: want to get on his good side, ask him about
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Speaker 1: his ask him about his Black sabb and God forbid
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Speaker 1: you meet him in a dark alley. My friends, h
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Speaker 1: And by the way, Casey is editing this and presumably
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Speaker 1: rolling his eyes really hard right now. Um, we love you, Casey.
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Speaker 1: We're just we're just giving you a hard time. Um,
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Speaker 1: but you know, uh, speaking of reality television, the list
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Speaker 1: today's story has the kind of like early makings of
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Speaker 1: the kind of drama we absolutely live for in reality TV.
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Speaker 1: You know, it's got the conflict, it's got the simmering resentment.
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Speaker 1: You know, it's got the overreaction. Uh, and then it's
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Speaker 1: ultimately got the kind of uh no, not too much
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Speaker 1: of a spoiler alert, but the kind of anticlimactic ending. Yes. Yeah,
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Speaker 1: if this were an episode of reality TV, it would
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Speaker 1: literally be called the Pig episode, and we could call
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Speaker 1: it war Pig. But this is also known as the
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Speaker 1: Pig War or uh, the San Juan Boundary dispute. This
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Speaker 1: is weird. You were kidding about the pig episode? That
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Speaker 1: is an official title of this, uh, this story as well. Yeah,
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Speaker 1: that's correct. This this is a weird one. So, uh, folks.
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Speaker 1: You may be aware of the time that the UK
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Speaker 1: went to war with what would become known as the
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Speaker 1: United States in what we call the Revolutionary War, But
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Speaker 1: did you know the US and the UK almost went
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Speaker 1: to war again due to a series of ridiculous events
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Speaker 1: that began in eighteen fifty nine on an island called
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Speaker 1: San Juan Island. San Juan Island has nothing to do
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Speaker 1: with Puerto Rico at all. It is a chunk of
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Speaker 1: land located between the US and Vancouver Island. At the time,
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Speaker 1: this place was home to settlers from the US and
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Speaker 1: two British employees of the Hudson Bay Company. What on
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Speaker 1: earth are you guys talking about? You may ask, where's
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Speaker 1: the pig? Uh will will tell you about this strange
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Speaker 1: series of events. By the way, you know, you may
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Speaker 1: have heard of the Hudson Bay Company. They occupy some
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Speaker 1: kind of rarefied space in in the business world, and
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Speaker 1: that they were around in the eighteen hundreds and continue
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Speaker 1: to be around today. They started off as a fur
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Speaker 1: trading company and then in two thousand six still a thing,
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Speaker 1: were acquired by the well known entrepreneur American businessman Jerry
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Speaker 1: Zucker for one point one billion dollars um. It originally
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Speaker 1: was a Canadian owned company, and that is very much
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Speaker 1: the case in today's story. That's right, that's right. So
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Speaker 1: let's let's take a closer look at San Juan Island.
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Speaker 1: Let's do it way way way, way, way, way, way way.
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Speaker 1: Before the arrival of Europeans San Juan Island had its
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Speaker 1: own thriving community and culture. It had a temperate climate,
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Speaker 1: the soil was great, had tons of resources, marine and
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Speaker 1: timber especially, And this bountiful land appealed to Spain, Great Britain,
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Speaker 1: and the u US. Each of these empires, each of
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Speaker 1: these forces explored and charted and mapped and named the
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Speaker 1: islands while they were staking overlapping claims to Oregon County.
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Speaker 1: Oregon County you'll recognize today as the present states of Washington, Oregon, Idaho,
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Speaker 1: and then parts of Montana, Wyoming, and British Columbia as well.
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Speaker 1: Now you might be saying, wait, Spain, Spain's in the mix. Well,
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Speaker 1: Spain's kind of in the mix in terms of the
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Speaker 1: name of the island. But they had abandoned their claims
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Speaker 1: by eighteen eighteen. I think that's right. They took off
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Speaker 1: and left it to the English and the Americans, who
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Speaker 1: formed a joint agreement in eighteen eighteen, which, you know,
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Speaker 1: it seemed nice enough at the time. But to me,
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Speaker 1: the idea of joint occupation between former bitter rivals does
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Speaker 1: seem to not necessarily have the longest of term prospects.
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Speaker 1: In my opinion, seems like somebody would have read flag that.
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Speaker 1: But you know, I guess it was a lucrative enough
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Speaker 1: deal that it made sense for both of them to
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Speaker 1: play nice, and apparently they were able to do that.
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Speaker 1: They lived in relative harmony. Um, you know, with subjects
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Speaker 1: of each America doesn't have subjects citizens of the US
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Speaker 1: and subjects of the British Empire jointly occupying this land
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Speaker 1: for farming for um grazing, right, because again the soil
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Speaker 1: is very rich, so it made for some good livestock
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Speaker 1: grazing as well. And also if you look at a
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Speaker 1: map in this area, and this is something we'll dive
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Speaker 1: into a little bit later in to stay show, you'll
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Speaker 1: see that San Juan Island in particular has a lot
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Speaker 1: of strategic value. So of course you want, if you're
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Speaker 1: the UK or the US at this time, you want
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Speaker 1: to control that spot. You know, resources aside, you want
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Speaker 1: to be able to be a gatekeeper there for transport.
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Speaker 1: So pensions start to mount. As he said, No, yes,
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Speaker 1: there are trade agreements. Yes, there's heavy investment between both
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Speaker 1: of these nations, both these countries. But over in Oregon County,
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Speaker 1: the US forces, I think the British presence is offensive, inherently, profoundly,
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Speaker 1: fundamentally so, because they're laboring under the concept of manifest destiny.
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Speaker 1: This land is our land. Long story short, it is
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Speaker 1: right you you kind of nailed it. But it is
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Speaker 1: a grand idea, right, But it also sort of, you know,
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Speaker 1: doesn't really think of others. Let's say, it's sort of like,
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Speaker 1: you know, we're gonna do what we're gonna do. Anybody
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Speaker 1: else interests be damned. Would you say that that's about
9:02
Speaker 1: the size of it. Yeah, yeah, you're right. No, So
9:05
Speaker 1: manifest destiny is a kind of American exceptionalism. It was
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Speaker 1: this widely held belief in the eighteen hundreds nineteenth century
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Speaker 1: US that there was some sort of predestination, some sort
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Speaker 1: of like it was the fate of the American people
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Speaker 1: to expand across the continent because they were inherently special,
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Speaker 1: inherently different, and somehow exceptional in comparison to the rest
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Speaker 1: of the world. British people included, Sorry, your majesty. The
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Speaker 1: thing is, the British did not agree. As you might imagine.
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Speaker 1: They believed that they had a legal right to these
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Speaker 1: lands because of earlier treaties and earlier established activity of
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Speaker 1: the Hudson's Bay Company, which was a Canadian company which
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Speaker 1: was under the oversight of the British Crown. Yes, yeah,
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Speaker 1: just so, yeah, these internal differences and feelings of superiority aside.
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Speaker 1: On June eight in London, they signed the Treaty of Oregon.
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Speaker 1: And the Treaty of Oregon did something really important, really important,
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Speaker 1: but as we'll see, done especially helpful. Uh. They the
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Speaker 1: Treaty of Oregon sets the boundary on the forty parallel,
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Speaker 1: so from the Rocky Mountains to quote, the middle of
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Speaker 1: the channel which separates the continent from Vancouver's Island ends
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Speaker 1: quote then south through the channel to the Strait of
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Speaker 1: Wanda Fuca and west to the Pacific Ocean. Seems clean
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Speaker 1: enough until you, you know, get on the ground, right
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Speaker 1: or even like look at a detailed enough map. That's fine.
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Speaker 1: That there's a band from Athens and if they're still active,
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Speaker 1: that it was called Kuanda Fuca and that or knew
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Speaker 1: what that was the reference to. So here you go. Um,
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Speaker 1: here's the thing. Like you said, Ben, there there was
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Speaker 1: you know, where the rubber met the road. A bit
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Speaker 1: of an issue. The San Juan Islands were in between
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Speaker 1: Vancouver Island and the mainland, meaning that because of this
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Speaker 1: geographical situation, there was actually a channel on either side,
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Speaker 1: and the treaty didn't say which the side was the
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Speaker 1: actual border exactly. So what do you the channel? I mean,
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Speaker 1: that's right, there's literally two channels? Which one you gotta
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Speaker 1: do better? Perfect storm for you know, a massive argument,
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Speaker 1: uh and pissing contest, especially with super legalistic people, right
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Speaker 1: and uh, diplomats and negotiators. Yeah, so there are two
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Speaker 1: possibilities here, one something called the Harrow Straight h A
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Speaker 1: r O and one something called the rosar Oreo straight
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Speaker 1: the San Juan Islands, right, smack dab between these, and
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Speaker 1: both sides round up on their mapping of the forty
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Speaker 1: ninth parallel and both sides say, well, yeah, actually this
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Speaker 1: this part is ours, so we'll just snatch this part.
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Speaker 1: The first claims from the Hudson's Bay Company come back
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Speaker 1: in eighteen five. They're based at Fort Victoria, and they
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Speaker 1: claimed San Juan Island, which was only seven miles across
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Speaker 1: the Harrow Strait. By eighteen fifty one, they had established
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Speaker 1: some pretty strong industry there, Like eighteen fifty one, there
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Speaker 1: they've got these salmon curing stations. But then the US
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Speaker 1: also enters the chat as we would say in the
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Speaker 1: modern day. By eighteen fifty three, the US had claimed
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Speaker 1: these as possessions that were part of what they called
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Speaker 1: the Washington Territory. So then what follows like another back
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Speaker 1: and forth of people trying to get more diplomatic street
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Speaker 1: credit for their claim to the islands. Yeah, and Hudson
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Speaker 1: Bay companies establishing uh sheep farms are a sheep farm
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Speaker 1: rather than Bellevue sheep farm that's along the island's southern shore. Um.
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Speaker 1: And this, weirdly, I've never really thought of sheep as
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Speaker 1: being a tool of political machinations, but this was just
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Speaker 1: so um. It was a politically motivated move because the
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Speaker 1: islands climate and like we said, the soil uh and
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Speaker 1: the conditions were rife for for grazing. UM. And the
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Speaker 1: flock expanded from sixty nine individual sheepy's to more than
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Speaker 1: four thousand, five hundred UH that were scattered across the island. Yeah.
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Speaker 1: And while this is happening, people in the US who
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Speaker 1: are looking to migrate and settle elsewhere on the continent,
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Speaker 1: they're all hearing about this great review of the San
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Speaker 1: Juan Islands by something called the Northwest Boundary Survey. Uh.
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Speaker 1: These naturalists are saying, you know what's great if you're
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Speaker 1: looking for a new place to live, Hey, this land
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Speaker 1: is your land, right, come over to this awesome island.
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Speaker 1: You got all the fish you want. The soil is great,
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Speaker 1: the climate is surprisingly awesome, and it's had backcheck ever
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Speaker 1: so slightly. You know, when I said that the sheep
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Speaker 1: farm move was politically motivated, I mean a lot of
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Speaker 1: this stuff was politically motivated. It was it was like
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Speaker 1: making the case for their claim by saying, well, we
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Speaker 1: established the sheep farm this time. Uh, and and it's
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Speaker 1: it's profitable or whatever, um or even if it wasn't profitable.
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Speaker 1: Just the establishment of all of these various little stations, uh,
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Speaker 1: in their minds at least, you know, kind of up
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Speaker 1: the ante as far as the validity of their claim
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Speaker 1: was concerned. So by the spring of eighteen fifty nine,
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Speaker 1: we had eighteen Americans settling on claims that were staked
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Speaker 1: on some of these really top sheep grazing lands. Um.
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Speaker 1: And they believed that because of the US's involvement, and
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Speaker 1: they're kind of bullish uh handling of the situation, that
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Speaker 1: they would be supported by the US government and the
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Speaker 1: U S Government would recognize their claims as valid um.
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Speaker 1: But the British UH not only didn't recognize their claim
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Speaker 1: they believed them to be illegal UH and considered the
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Speaker 1: claimants to be trespassers on their prime sheep grazing land.
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Speaker 1: Even referred to them as squatters. And this really started
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Speaker 1: to escalate this simmering resentment that we were talking about
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Speaker 1: from the start, right, Yeah, that's that's the thing. So
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Speaker 1: from the British perspective, these folks are illegal immigrants, you
15:57
Speaker 1: know what I mean. Now, of course we have to
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Speaker 1: point out the tremendous hypocrisy of the British and the
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Speaker 1: US forces saying that people are illegally occupying land. Especially
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Speaker 1: we can consider the native population that was living in
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Speaker 1: North America for thousands of years. So here we are
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Speaker 1: both the US and Britain playing the islands. Are their
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Speaker 1: own settlers from both countries have been living and working
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Speaker 1: on on these islands in this area and they got
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Speaker 1: along well enough, which is odd when you think about it,
16:36
Speaker 1: because I was trying to think of, like, um, an
16:39
Speaker 1: impactful day to day kind of example or analogy here, Like, imagine, folks,
16:45
Speaker 1: if my pal Null rented an apartment. Let's say I'm
16:51
Speaker 1: a landlord and I rent out an apartment to knows,
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Speaker 1: but then I rent out an apartment to Casey. It's
16:56
Speaker 1: the same apartment. These guys are ends, right, but they
17:01
Speaker 1: both say, I own this apartment. You know, why are
17:03
Speaker 1: you always here? Why are you bringing people? Casey shows
17:07
Speaker 1: up with a thousand plus cheap and Nol was like, hey, dude,
17:11
Speaker 1: you can come over, but just to be straight with you,
17:14
Speaker 1: this is my apartment. The tension rises, Esenal said, and
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Speaker 1: it reaches ahead exactly thirteen years after the signing of
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Speaker 1: the Oregon Treaty. On June eighteen fifty nine. There's a
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Speaker 1: guy we have to introduce called Lyman Cutler. He is
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Speaker 1: a farmer and he sees this large black pig a boar,
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Speaker 1: rooting in his garden. His neighbor on the other side
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Speaker 1: of his fence is an irishman named Charles Griffin. Charles
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Speaker 1: Griffin is watching this pig route through Cutler's crops and
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Speaker 1: he's he's laughing about it. He's like, yes, going going
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Speaker 1: get him. And then Cutler's pretty pot out this, so
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Speaker 1: he takes out his rifle and he shoots the pig.
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Speaker 1: The problem is his neighbor owns the pig, and Charles
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Speaker 1: Griffin sometimes called Charles Griffith, he's not a U S immigrant,
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Speaker 1: He's a British subject and he is an employee of
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Speaker 1: Hudson's Bay. Yeah he he was, UM, and I you know,
18:21
Speaker 1: there's there's part of me that can understand his righteous
18:24
Speaker 1: indignation here, I suppose, especially given the flaring tensions UH
18:29
Speaker 1: because of this kind of stalemate situation. UM. But also
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Speaker 1: like he he was known for letting his pigs roam
18:37
Speaker 1: around the land. Whether that was like uh f you
18:41
Speaker 1: kind of middle finger flex to to the other inhabitants
18:44
Speaker 1: who were not British subjects. I have to imagine that
18:47
Speaker 1: this affected other neighbors of his that were British subjects.
18:52
Speaker 1: So doesn't sound like the most considerate UH neighbor to
18:56
Speaker 1: be sharing this plot of land with. So it's highly
18:59
Speaker 1: likely that his pigs had messed around both in Cutler's
19:03
Speaker 1: land before UH and in others. Cutler's land admittedly was
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Speaker 1: surrounded by a three sided fence according to some official
19:12
Speaker 1: complaints UH that are around UM. So you know, they
19:17
Speaker 1: let things simmer for a minute and and and tempers
19:20
Speaker 1: you know, cooled down, cooler has prevailed and all that. Uh.
19:23
Speaker 1: And Cutler offered, in what he clearly thought was a
19:26
Speaker 1: very magnanimous gesture, uh, and and probably a very generous one. Um,
19:31
Speaker 1: considering you know, we can inflation calculator this probably but
19:35
Speaker 1: he offered to pay ten dollars uh for the pig,
19:38
Speaker 1: for the life of the pig after the fact, postmortem. Um,
19:43
Speaker 1: so what would that be? What would ten dollars be
19:45
Speaker 1: in eighteen fifty nine, ten dollars casey hit us with
19:49
Speaker 1: that sound cue boo boo boo boop boop boop boop boop.
19:55
Speaker 1: Eight it's uh. Ten dollars would be the equivalent of
20:00
Speaker 1: three hundred and fifteen bucks today. If you are wondering
20:04
Speaker 1: what the average cost of a pig is, uh, the
20:09
Speaker 1: average price of a pig under eighty pounds is two
20:14
Speaker 1: hundred and thirty bucks roughly. So, so ten dollars would
20:18
Speaker 1: have been, you know, a pretty reasonable thing. But Griffin,
20:24
Speaker 1: for one reason or another, wasn't having it, and instead
20:28
Speaker 1: he demanded not ten dollars but a hundred dollars. Oh
20:33
Speaker 1: my gosh, I see that clearly again, knowing what we
20:37
Speaker 1: know about the inflation the rate of inflation there. Clearly,
20:40
Speaker 1: I would say, three hundred dollars for a pig, even
20:44
Speaker 1: by today's standards, seems about right. Don't you feel like
20:47
Speaker 1: it's fair, especially considering the pig was the aggressor. The
20:51
Speaker 1: pig was indeed the aggressor. So this, uh, doubling down,
20:55
Speaker 1: this one hundred dollars, seems designed to cause a problem. Uh,
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Speaker 1: And it did because Cutler doubled down and returned by saying,
21:04
Speaker 1: what you said, Ben, the pig, I shouldn't have to
21:06
Speaker 1: pay anything. I was being generous to offer you ten dollars.
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Speaker 1: Your pig was rooting around in my cabbage patch or whatever. Uh,
21:15
Speaker 1: And I shouldn't have to pay you a dime. Your
21:17
Speaker 1: your animal was trespassing on my land. Oh that's where
21:21
Speaker 1: we get into, right, my land trespassing. These types of
21:25
Speaker 1: terms are very charged. Yeah. I I suspect there was something, uh,
21:32
Speaker 1: some ulterior motive here, man, because first they claim about
21:37
Speaker 1: the land. You're right, that's a powder keg. But secondly,
21:39
Speaker 1: that's a crazy price for a pig, isn't it. I mean,
21:42
Speaker 1: unless it was like you know, babe pig in the
21:44
Speaker 1: city or you know, Wilburg could do tricks and stuff
21:48
Speaker 1: caliber some pig um. Yeah, this was absolutely a number
21:53
Speaker 1: that was designed to infuriate because if we run that
21:57
Speaker 1: handy dandy inflation calculator one more time, be be poop uh,
22:05
Speaker 1: we get the exorbitant number of three thousand, one d
22:10
Speaker 1: and fifty one dollars and fifty nine cents. I don't
22:15
Speaker 1: know this pig better, you know, poop gold uh and
22:19
Speaker 1: do backflips and possibly recite you know, epic poetry for
22:25
Speaker 1: that amount. Yeah. I mean maybe Griffith was you know,
22:29
Speaker 1: maybe it was like his prize pet pig. Maybe they
22:33
Speaker 1: had a deep relationship that can happen. I am not
22:38
Speaker 1: implying that. I was thinking more of emotionally charged familial bonds,
22:46
Speaker 1: you know, a man in his pig. Uh. So then
22:49
Speaker 1: you're not talking me down from my my possibility there.
22:53
Speaker 1: I'm certainly I'm certainly not gonna entertain it purposely. So
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Speaker 1: this disagreement spreads around the very small community on the island,
23:12
Speaker 1: and the HBC Hudson's Bay Company employees obviously go full
23:18
Speaker 1: in supporting Griffin or Griffith and the families from the
23:23
Speaker 1: US on San Juan they're about at this time. They
23:27
Speaker 1: of course have Cutlers back. So British forces threatened to
23:34
Speaker 1: arrest this farmer. To arrest Cutler, his neighbors go, ham,
23:39
Speaker 1: that's terrible. But they, you know, they go wild. And
23:41
Speaker 1: so they call the U. S. Military and they say, look,
23:46
Speaker 1: these British forces are basically invading us. They have no
23:49
Speaker 1: authority here. And Uncle Sam is like, you're absolutely right,
23:54
Speaker 1: you twenty five families on this island. Let's send in
23:58
Speaker 1: the troops. So both government end up sending their militaries
24:02
Speaker 1: to the San Juan Islands. Yeah. Yeah. Uh So now
24:08
Speaker 1: not only is this this the island occupied by uh
24:13
Speaker 1: warring families. I mean, I don't know this. It's certainly
24:16
Speaker 1: possible that many of them stayed out of it and
24:19
Speaker 1: and that they just wanted to like go about their business.
24:21
Speaker 1: But I can imagine the taking of sides probably took
24:24
Speaker 1: place because, like you said, Ben, this uh the kerfuffle
24:28
Speaker 1: kind of began to circulate. And I'm just picturing, you know,
24:30
Speaker 1: the suscerous of of discontent circulating between the two factions,
24:35
Speaker 1: the Brits and the Yanks. Uh and bring in joint
24:40
Speaker 1: military occupation. Uh And And that sounds like a real
24:44
Speaker 1: recipe for disaster. With already um that reality TV show
24:49
Speaker 1: level resentment about to boil over absolutely, the U. S
24:54
Speaker 1: Forces dispatch sixties six soldiers from the ninth Infantry Regiment
25:00
Speaker 1: to San Juan. This detachment is under the command of
25:06
Speaker 1: of a kind of hot headed guy by the name
25:09
Speaker 1: of George Pickett, hailing from Virginia. Just four years after this,
25:14
Speaker 1: Pickett would lead a well, he would help lead a
25:18
Speaker 1: disastrous infantry charge from the rebel forces into the center
25:24
Speaker 1: of Union lines at the infamous Battle of Gettysburg. But
25:28
Speaker 1: now four years before Gettysburg. Pickets Unit lands on July
25:36
Speaker 1: fifty nine, and they set up camp near the wharf
25:40
Speaker 1: that is occupied by Hudson's Bay Company, Griffin Bay. It's
25:44
Speaker 1: just north of that sheep farm that you have mentioned earlier.
25:49
Speaker 1: NOL and the regional authorities, the British authorities are freaked out,
25:54
Speaker 1: understandably because they're like, hey, we claimed this island right,
25:58
Speaker 1: because nobody really figured out the problem with those two
26:02
Speaker 1: straits and and the problem of that forty nine parallels.
26:05
Speaker 1: So British authorities are asking themselves why in blue blazes,
26:09
Speaker 1: oh wait, maybe an accent will have the US troops
26:12
Speaker 1: so on our islands and then they call in three warships.
26:18
Speaker 1: So if you're just like to your point about some
26:20
Speaker 1: people probably just staying out of it, some people probably
26:22
Speaker 1: just wanted to fish or to uh you know, live
26:26
Speaker 1: their life on their island farm. This is a hell
26:29
Speaker 1: of a week. This is crazy. I think there should
26:31
Speaker 1: be a theme for Animal Crossing based on this story.
26:37
Speaker 1: That's a beautiful idea. Would on board, Yes, sir, it's
26:40
Speaker 1: totally doable. I mean, really, what is animal crossing if
26:43
Speaker 1: not this situation kind of under a microscope. It's all
26:47
Speaker 1: of these different, uh you know, anthropomorphic creatures supposedly trying
26:52
Speaker 1: to live together in harmony. And I'm sure there are
26:55
Speaker 1: a little cute see, you know, disagreements that pop up.
26:58
Speaker 1: I don't really play the game, but how one would
27:00
Speaker 1: it be for there to be, like for someone to
27:02
Speaker 1: stage a re enactment of this story on the Animal
27:06
Speaker 1: Crossing island. Um, I think we should. We should reach
27:08
Speaker 1: out to Nintendo with our brilliant idea. Um. But the
27:12
Speaker 1: people that were there, you know, now things are really
27:15
Speaker 1: off the rails. Not only is there this disagreement that
27:18
Speaker 1: has turned into a low key military occupation. Now you
27:23
Speaker 1: have these U S troops that are moving in and
27:25
Speaker 1: a thirty one gun steam frigate, a frigate, which I
27:30
Speaker 1: love that word, by the way, I also love the
27:31
Speaker 1: word a wharf. Uh. And that frigate in question is
27:36
Speaker 1: the h MS Tribune, which was sent to uh knock
27:41
Speaker 1: pick it off as a high horse, but also with
27:45
Speaker 1: instructions to avoid out and out war. Yeah, they're they're
27:49
Speaker 1: supposed to avoid a war because you know, a war
27:52
Speaker 1: between the US and the UK at this time could
27:54
Speaker 1: quickly become a global event, right uh, and it would
28:00
Speaker 1: it would certainly be something that would consume the entire
28:03
Speaker 1: continent of North America. So, in a euphemistic way, you
28:07
Speaker 1: could say, the HMS Tribune was sent there to uh
28:10
Speaker 1: just flex some maritime muscle and inspire Picket to move
28:16
Speaker 1: somewhere else. The Tribune is backed up by these other
28:19
Speaker 1: two ships we mentioned. They are the HMS Satellite and
28:22
Speaker 1: the HMS Plumper, which is a ridiculous name ship. It's
28:27
Speaker 1: just if it's so adorable. That's an animal crossing warship.
28:31
Speaker 1: And these are each ships that pack heat. Uh. They
28:34
Speaker 1: also have forty six Royal Marines in the mix, fifteen
28:38
Speaker 1: Royal engineers. Picket is unmoved he has uninspired to continue
28:45
Speaker 1: the euphemism, so instead of withdrawing, he writes to his
28:49
Speaker 1: superiors for help and uh. During this time, for the
28:55
Speaker 1: rest of July and then into August as well, both
28:59
Speaker 1: grew are Both groups are acquiring more support. The British
29:04
Speaker 1: are acquiring more royal marines, many of whom are battle hardened.
29:10
Speaker 1: We're talking about people who had uh stormed beaches in
29:14
Speaker 1: China not too long ago. And then on the U
29:17
Speaker 1: s side, Pickett is kind of concerned with just putting
29:21
Speaker 1: more feathers in his own cap. He's thinking, I'm already
29:26
Speaker 1: low key famous because of my deeds in the Mexican War.
29:30
Speaker 1: This is a chance to make myself even more of
29:34
Speaker 1: a prominent American hero. Uh. He is threatening. He is
29:40
Speaker 1: like squawking left and right. He's threatening the British on
29:42
Speaker 1: their ships. He's antagonizing them. He's say, you're going to
29:46
Speaker 1: have another bunker hill if you guys try to land
29:50
Speaker 1: on the island. This land is our land. He probably said, sincerely,
29:55
Speaker 1: without a note of irony. This, How does that old
30:01
Speaker 1: saying go this um this something will not will not
30:06
Speaker 1: stand there it is. Do you think any American general
30:10
Speaker 1: ever just like aggressively said the words manifest destiny and
30:15
Speaker 1: then slam their fists down on the table. I hope, so,
30:19
Speaker 1: I definitely hope. So it seems like something they would do.
30:22
Speaker 1: So this profoundly offends the British. This guy named James Douglas,
30:27
Speaker 1: he's a governor of the Vancouver Island Colony, and he
30:31
Speaker 1: orders the British naval commander, Rear Admiral Robert Baines, two
30:37
Speaker 1: land marines on the island, get your house in order.
30:41
Speaker 1: He's saying, he's smacking that table to your example, is
30:45
Speaker 1: saying this saggression will not stand. Says this is a
30:47
Speaker 1: British island. You get in there, you reassert British control.
30:53
Speaker 1: And huge credit, huge shout out to Rear Admiral Baines,
30:58
Speaker 1: because he diplomatically refuses, and he cites the reason that
31:05
Speaker 1: we mentioned earlier. He said, you know, if we push
31:07
Speaker 1: this too far, with all due respect, Governor, we could
31:12
Speaker 1: end up in a war. And that's the last thing
31:14
Speaker 1: anybody wants. There's something amazing about people who are able
31:20
Speaker 1: to possess that clarity of thought when everything is going
31:24
Speaker 1: south and getting into this, you know, this war text
31:28
Speaker 1: of bad decisions and reactionary thought. This guy, the admiral,
31:34
Speaker 1: is the one of the first people in the story
31:37
Speaker 1: who says, should we start a world war? Should we
31:43
Speaker 1: start another revolutionary war over this guy's pig? You know,
31:47
Speaker 1: even if you love the pig. However, you know it's okay, okay,
31:54
Speaker 1: how's a callback hashtag text? Pick? Um, I feel like
31:59
Speaker 1: we're overlooking slightly, maybe just just just out loud, uh,
32:04
Speaker 1: the idea or the fact that many huge scale wars
32:09
Speaker 1: are caused by some little minute tipping point event, some
32:14
Speaker 1: larger than others. Obviously, like the assassination of Archduke Franz
32:17
Speaker 1: Ferdinand and all of that. Um, Ben, you're more of
32:21
Speaker 1: the international affairs expert than me, but I think you
32:23
Speaker 1: would agree that huge scale conflicts often result from small
32:29
Speaker 1: scale events, Yeah, or are triggered by Obviously, it's not
32:33
Speaker 1: the only thing. It's it's based on a huge run
32:35
Speaker 1: up to that thing, and that's the straw that breaks
32:37
Speaker 1: the you know, the camel's back or whatever. Yeah, that's
32:40
Speaker 1: a really good point. Well, because we see the multiple
32:43
Speaker 1: factors lead to wars and the thing that becomes that
32:47
Speaker 1: catalyst that Malcolm Gladwell asked, tipping point that can be
32:52
Speaker 1: a relatively small thing. It's just it becomes somehow symbolic
32:58
Speaker 1: of the accumulation of those other are factors and variables
33:01
Speaker 1: leading to a conflict. You are absolutely right, so pick
33:07
Speaker 1: it on the U S side. He gets reinforcements. A
33:11
Speaker 1: hundred and seventy one men under the command of Lieutenant
33:14
Speaker 1: Colonel Silas Casey arrived on August ten, and they go
33:19
Speaker 1: to Victoria and they talked to Rear Admiral Baines. They say, Okay,
33:24
Speaker 1: this is a reasonable guy. There's something so surreal and
33:27
Speaker 1: almost like doctor Strange love about this. How these highly
33:31
Speaker 1: regarded military leaders have to meet up to figure out
33:35
Speaker 1: whether or not they're going to war over this dispute
33:39
Speaker 1: from these neighbors. And so much of it, I mean,
33:42
Speaker 1: you know, we use the word diplomacy, but so much
33:45
Speaker 1: of it has to do with personalities and has to
33:47
Speaker 1: do with like these like microaggressions, you know what I mean,
33:51
Speaker 1: Like the idea of someone being unreasonable or pushing someone
33:54
Speaker 1: too far, even just conversationally. Like so many decisions are
33:59
Speaker 1: made based on that kind of calculus, or one would
34:03
Speaker 1: hope not by the the the better more strategic generals.
34:10
Speaker 1: But we know that based on the amazing satire that
34:13
Speaker 1: is Dr Strangelove. Uh, some of these things can be
34:16
Speaker 1: quite arbitrary and based on ego and posturing. Oh yeah,
34:20
Speaker 1: and you know what, I think posturing should be the
34:23
Speaker 1: word of the day on today's episode because this is
34:27
Speaker 1: what follows now is all about posturing show of force, right. Uh.
34:32
Speaker 1: The the guy who mentioned earlier, Lieutenant Colonel Casey. He
34:37
Speaker 1: goes to meet with Bains and Baines by the way,
34:40
Speaker 1: Baines is another battle hardened veteran. He had been in
34:44
Speaker 1: the Battle of New Orleans in eighteen fifteen. He's got
34:47
Speaker 1: a He's on board a ship, the HMS Ganges. It
34:51
Speaker 1: has eighty four guns. And when uh, when Casey gets
34:56
Speaker 1: to Baines and sees the ship, he calls on. He
35:02
Speaker 1: calls on Baines and says, hey, well you come meet
35:07
Speaker 1: us at this lighthouse. And Baines says, nice strike, kiddo.
35:13
Speaker 1: I learned a thing or two in my days of
35:17
Speaker 1: war and days of yore. I don't know if he's
35:20
Speaker 1: excellent freestyling like that, but he says, look, I'm not
35:22
Speaker 1: leaving my ship. Uh. And then Casey looks at the
35:26
Speaker 1: ship and he's thinking Wow, this is intimidating. This this
35:31
Speaker 1: ship is huge. So he goes back to San Juan
35:35
Speaker 1: and he sends word to say, like, we need more people,
35:39
Speaker 1: We need reinforcements. If we're really gonna do this, if
35:43
Speaker 1: we're really gonna go to war over some territorial claims
35:48
Speaker 1: and over this, you know, hapless, unfortunate pig, then I
35:53
Speaker 1: need some firepower. So by August thirty one, there were
36:03
Speaker 1: four hundred and sixty one Americans camped out in the
36:07
Speaker 1: woods north of that sheep farm we mentioned, which I
36:10
Speaker 1: hilariously referred to earlier as belle Vou, because that's clearly
36:13
Speaker 1: a thing. It is, in fact Bellevue. There was an
36:16
Speaker 1: errant e that had just dropped off of of our notes,
36:20
Speaker 1: and those troops were protected by fourteen giant cannons known
36:26
Speaker 1: as Field cannons. Not to mention the thirty two pound
36:30
Speaker 1: naval guns that were taken off the U. S s.
36:33
Speaker 1: Massachusetts and installed under the guidance of Second Lieutenant Henry M. Robert.
36:39
Speaker 1: Uh So, the Americans were absolutely digging in their heels
36:42
Speaker 1: um and the British were over conducting drills with their
36:45
Speaker 1: fifty two total guns. Yep, there's the posturing, so they would, uh,
36:51
Speaker 1: they would shoot nearby. This is something we see sometimes
36:57
Speaker 1: with modern day military x sercizes. Right, you're going into,
37:02
Speaker 1: for instance, the South China Sea and you're like, oh,
37:05
Speaker 1: we're just making sure our battleships are ready. We're just
37:08
Speaker 1: doing that in front of you. Everyone be cool. We're
37:12
Speaker 1: we're practicing. This one doesn't count, so that that's what
37:15
Speaker 1: they're doing. This is maybe the most American part of
37:19
Speaker 1: the story. Tourists get involved fun. It's like people and
37:26
Speaker 1: this this is so weird. This happens in other North
37:29
Speaker 1: American conflicts throughout history. Tourists start traveling to the area
37:35
Speaker 1: from Victoria and they they say like, hey, let's let's
37:41
Speaker 1: go watch. Let's go watch the military drill. Do you
37:44
Speaker 1: think there will be a war? It's this ridiculous. This
37:48
Speaker 1: is very interesting, Ben because I can't believe it's never
37:52
Speaker 1: occurred to me sooner at least as like a good
37:55
Speaker 1: sketch or like a Monty Python esque kind of situation.
37:58
Speaker 1: The idea of war tourists like obviously we have you know,
38:02
Speaker 1: conflict reporters that are civilians that are you know, embedded
38:06
Speaker 1: in war zones and there to do a job. But
38:09
Speaker 1: how come we don't think about like the absurd concept
38:12
Speaker 1: of like a family wearing Hawaiian shirts and eating popcorn,
38:16
Speaker 1: like touching down in Sarajevo or whatever to watch the fireworks. Yeah, yeah,
38:24
Speaker 1: it may have fallen off a bit in the modern day,
38:27
Speaker 1: but you know what, we should do an episode about
38:29
Speaker 1: it because it was a thing. It was definitely a thing.
38:32
Speaker 1: And yeah, it's kind of messed up. It was considered
38:35
Speaker 1: as spectacle. Happened in Europe pretty frequently to Uh. So
38:40
Speaker 1: there's something else here, and and I love that this
38:43
Speaker 1: points out how absurd these conflicts can become. There's something
38:48
Speaker 1: very like Vonna gut esque about this. The officers from
38:53
Speaker 1: both sides, both the British and the US, they go
38:57
Speaker 1: to church together while these tensions are mounting. They go
39:02
Speaker 1: to church aboard the HMS satellite. Uh. They also go
39:06
Speaker 1: to the Irish guy, Charles Griffin or Charles Griffith's home
39:11
Speaker 1: and they hang out and they get kind of lit.
39:14
Speaker 1: They drink whiskey and smoke cigars. But they're still like
39:17
Speaker 1: after that, right, like after their hangout sessions with the
39:21
Speaker 1: Lord or with whiskey and cigars. After those hangout sessions
39:26
Speaker 1: They're like, Okay, we're gonna go back to our posts.
39:29
Speaker 1: Let's hope we don't start a war tomorrow. Uh are
39:34
Speaker 1: you gonna He's not gonna do it. Yeah, okay, see
39:38
Speaker 1: see your Monday. No, that's what I'm saying that these moments,
39:42
Speaker 1: the idea of these like military leaders lounging around together
39:46
Speaker 1: with their whiskey and cigars, it reminds me of another
39:48
Speaker 1: Stanley Kubrick movie actually called Paths of Glory, which um
39:52
Speaker 1: isn't quite as heavily satirical as Doctor Strangelove, but it's
39:56
Speaker 1: very difficult for something to be because that one is
39:59
Speaker 1: just over the top, you know, to to steal your word,
40:01
Speaker 1: cartoonishly satirical. But Paths of Glory involves uh, World War One,
40:08
Speaker 1: I want to say, um, like trench warfare hardcore, where
40:11
Speaker 1: these um generals very callously make the decision to send
40:16
Speaker 1: troops on a an utter suicide mission, and they do
40:20
Speaker 1: it while lounging in this like French villa, drinking brandies
40:24
Speaker 1: and smoking cigars. So that's kind of the callousness that
40:27
Speaker 1: I'm talking about. Terrible, and so these you know, we
40:31
Speaker 1: don't it's lost to history. We don't know how chill
40:34
Speaker 1: these folks were when they were actually hanging out, or
40:37
Speaker 1: if they were just sort of checking the cultural boxes
40:41
Speaker 1: right of going to church, of being officers holding parley.
40:45
Speaker 1: But we do know for the rest of that summer,
40:48
Speaker 1: the officers and forces on both sides, we're playing chicken. Basically,
40:54
Speaker 1: they were trying to get the other side to fire
40:57
Speaker 1: the first shot, because then anything they did would be
41:02
Speaker 1: an act of defense, right, so they would not be
41:04
Speaker 1: quote unquote the bad guys. This was gonna go sideways
41:09
Speaker 1: very easily, you know what I mean. Forget if Franz
41:12
Speaker 1: Ferdinand another pig getting shot could have possibly put US
41:17
Speaker 1: and the UK into a state of war. Luckily, officials
41:22
Speaker 1: from both nations find out about this when news of
41:28
Speaker 1: the crisis reaches Washington in late August. Here's the other
41:34
Speaker 1: absurd thing about this. The officials, both from Britain and
41:38
Speaker 1: the US had no idea what was happening in San Juan.
41:43
Speaker 1: Because the whole time the forces there in Oregon County
41:46
Speaker 1: have been like, um, they have been asking their superiors
41:50
Speaker 1: for reinforcements, but they were asking their regional superiors, you
41:53
Speaker 1: know what I mean. No one was talking to the
41:57
Speaker 1: British monarchy. No one was talking to the US president,
42:00
Speaker 1: see President James Buchanan. When he finds out about this,
42:04
Speaker 1: he has an oh, snap, this could be bad moment.
42:07
Speaker 1: And so he sends a general named Winfield Scott to investigate.
42:12
Speaker 1: And he says, look, General, you need to go there,
42:14
Speaker 1: and you need to make these people calm down, because
42:18
Speaker 1: we don't want to be in another war. Uh. Scott
42:21
Speaker 1: had a history about of this. He had a resume,
42:24
Speaker 1: he had ease tensions on two other border disputes. Yeah,
42:28
Speaker 1: something of like a hostage negotiator type vibe, or like
42:31
Speaker 1: a dog whisperer, but like for troops. Um. So Buchanan
42:36
Speaker 1: um was already up to his neck in trying to
42:40
Speaker 1: prevent war on another front between the Northern and Southern
42:46
Speaker 1: states of the United States. Uh. And saw this whole
42:50
Speaker 1: kerfuffle on the island as an absolute waste of time.
42:53
Speaker 1: So he wanted to do whatever it took to shut
42:55
Speaker 1: it down. Uh. And Winfield Scott, you know, with his
42:59
Speaker 1: certain set of skill, was his best hope, I think right.
43:02
Speaker 1: So he sailed down through Panama. Took him six weeks.
43:05
Speaker 1: He got there uh in October um and started chatting
43:09
Speaker 1: with Douglas Via you know, like Courier UM, and the
43:13
Speaker 1: two arranged for each UM leader, each representative of each
43:19
Speaker 1: nation to withdraw their troops, leaving a single company of
43:24
Speaker 1: troops from each side there and one warship, one British
43:28
Speaker 1: warship anchored in the bay. So peace upon you San
43:35
Speaker 1: Juan Islands. This joint military occupation last another twelve years.
43:42
Speaker 1: During that twelve years, there is no shot fired over time.
43:47
Speaker 1: Of course, these occupying troops were talking about a hundred
43:51
Speaker 1: dudes on each side. These occupying troops, they become buddies,
43:55
Speaker 1: their co workers and you know, other co workers. At
43:58
Speaker 1: this point, they get together a celebrate the holidays. Uh.
44:02
Speaker 1: They even they even play some sports and games. After
44:07
Speaker 1: thirteen years of sometimes stilted negotiations, you know, held up
44:12
Speaker 1: in part by the Civil War, Uh, the US Britain
44:15
Speaker 1: agreed to allow another party two come in like a
44:21
Speaker 1: third party, to help solve the dispute over San Juan Island.
44:26
Speaker 1: And that third party they choose is the ruler of
44:30
Speaker 1: a brand new nation, a newly established station called Germany.
44:34
Speaker 1: At ruler's name Kaiser Wilhelm. First A good kaiser role.
44:39
Speaker 1: I was your favorite type of brad Ben. You know,
44:41
Speaker 1: I have thought about this a lot. It's very difficult
44:44
Speaker 1: to choose. I've recently become obsessed with submarine sandwiches. Uh,
44:48
Speaker 1: and I'm doing some some really uh intriguing experiments ridiculous historians.
44:55
Speaker 1: You may or may not know this, but my long
44:57
Speaker 1: suffering colleagues have had to listen to me become obsessively
45:01
Speaker 1: wrapped up in different food experience experience like a case.
45:07
Speaker 1: Not on purpose, not on purpose, you got me? Um, Yeah,
45:11
Speaker 1: it's stuff to choose. The Kaiser is not named after
45:14
Speaker 1: the bread, in case anybody was wanting that's unfortunate. Perhaps
45:19
Speaker 1: the other way around. Uh, perhaps this was the Kaiser's
45:22
Speaker 1: favorite bread. But but the Kaiser is a is a
45:24
Speaker 1: is a post, right, It's like a It's basically like
45:26
Speaker 1: a general or or or an emperor or something. Right, Yeah,
45:30
Speaker 1: the German Emperor got it, or the head of the
45:33
Speaker 1: Holy Roman Empire, Emperor of Austria. Or of course a
45:36
Speaker 1: round soft roll of bread with a crisp crust, I
45:40
Speaker 1: like a nice crusty baguette. Or if you want to
45:43
Speaker 1: go completely different route of brioche, there's this. I tried
45:48
Speaker 1: this bread that is croissant bread. It's like a loaf
45:52
Speaker 1: of croissants that's just also bread. It's pretty good. Man
45:58
Speaker 1: layers in there with the airpot against UH, and then
46:03
Speaker 1: you know, sucker for tusking garlic loof. Anyway, anyway, the
46:07
Speaker 1: Kaiser forms the commission. On October one, eighteen seventy two,
46:12
Speaker 1: they announced their ruling, and they rule in favor of
46:16
Speaker 1: the US, which means they established that boundary from the
46:20
Speaker 1: Oregon Treaty to go through Harrow Strait. And this is
46:24
Speaker 1: why the San Juan Islands are part of the US today.
46:28
Speaker 1: This is the final boundary between Canada and the US.
46:33
Speaker 1: It's it's finally set. November two, the Royal Marines finally
46:40
Speaker 1: moved from their camp. And you know, I'm speculating here, Noll,
46:45
Speaker 1: but I imagine it was a little bitter sweet because
46:48
Speaker 1: these people have become friends and they're like, what's happening
46:51
Speaker 1: to our kickball league? Bro, It's not about the dead
46:54
Speaker 1: pigs that caused UH near military catastrophe. It's about the
46:59
Speaker 1: friend that we made along the way, exactly. And that
47:03
Speaker 1: is why the only casualty in the entirety of this
47:07
Speaker 1: conflict was that one incredibly unfortunate pig. If you're in
47:13
Speaker 1: the area, why not swing by the San Juan Island
47:15
Speaker 1: National Historical Park. You can still visit the site of
47:19
Speaker 1: both the British and the American camps. And fun fact,
47:23
Speaker 1: it is the only United States national park where a
47:27
Speaker 1: foreign flag is regularly hoisted over United States soil. And
47:33
Speaker 1: that is because both the flag and the flag pole
47:37
Speaker 1: were a gift from the British government as a sign
47:41
Speaker 1: of the friends we made along the way. You know,
47:44
Speaker 1: there's one thing that haunts me about this. It's just
47:47
Speaker 1: one thing. What was the name of the pig? You know,
47:51
Speaker 1: it's a good question, Ben. We'll have to just name
47:53
Speaker 1: him in our hearts. We'll have to just well, you
47:56
Speaker 1: know what, let's all let's just keep it to ourselves
47:59
Speaker 1: like a wish, like a secret wish when you throw
48:02
Speaker 1: a penny in a fountain, and we'll all just secretly
48:04
Speaker 1: name the pig in our hearts, because that's where he lives. Now,
48:08
Speaker 1: that's where he resides. Uh. If you don't want to
48:11
Speaker 1: keep it in your hearts, and you want to give
48:13
Speaker 1: us your best, uh, your best names for this unfortunate
48:19
Speaker 1: but historically important pig. We love to hear him. You
48:23
Speaker 1: can tell us about it online, where you can find
48:26
Speaker 1: us at our Facebook page Ridiculous Historians. You can also
48:29
Speaker 1: find us on social media, not just as a show,
48:32
Speaker 1: but as individuals, that's correct. You can find me exclusively
48:36
Speaker 1: on Instagram, where I post relatively regularly with you know,
48:40
Speaker 1: pictures of my twelve year old newly quite goth cost
48:44
Speaker 1: playing daughter and our adventures together and you know, music
48:48
Speaker 1: stuff and memes and the like, and uh you know
48:51
Speaker 1: all that. Ben, you're a bit more of a Twitter
48:54
Speaker 1: with with with quite a lovely Twitter presence. Yeah, that's
48:57
Speaker 1: kind of oll. Yeah, I am uh not more a Twitterer.
49:01
Speaker 1: I am on Twitter and Instagram. You can find me
49:04
Speaker 1: on Instagram. I just busted one of my cats out
49:07
Speaker 1: of cat jail. I'm at Ben Bowling. You can also
49:11
Speaker 1: find me on Twitter. Hit me up with weird ridiculous
49:14
Speaker 1: history facts or questions. Always love to hear them at
49:17
Speaker 1: Ben Bowling hs W. You know, big thanks to super
49:22
Speaker 1: producer Casey Pegram, who will be who is with us
49:26
Speaker 1: in spirit and we'll be joining us for our next episode.
49:29
Speaker 1: He sure will. And then I just want to say
49:31
Speaker 1: I did not mean to imply that you did not
49:33
Speaker 1: also have an epically delightful Instagram account. Uh, you are
49:37
Speaker 1: just quite the word smith on Twitter and uh and
49:39
Speaker 1: I very much enjoy those posts, which you also repost
49:43
Speaker 1: on Instagram in case people miss it in a Twitter
49:46
Speaker 1: person so highly recommend you follow both of those accounts
49:49
Speaker 1: of my good friend Ben Bolan Shucks. Uh, you don't know.
49:54
Speaker 1: I gotta I gotta show you this cat. It's a story.
49:57
Speaker 1: It's a story for off the air by I want
50:00
Speaker 1: to put you on the spot too much, man, But
50:03
Speaker 1: for folks who don't know, my friend Noll is uh
50:07
Speaker 1: prodigiously talented in the realm of music. So if you
50:11
Speaker 1: ask him politely, you like how I'm volunteering you, Man,
50:15
Speaker 1: you ask him politely, he might give you a sneak
50:19
Speaker 1: peak of some stuff I might And maybe one day
50:21
Speaker 1: I'll make that SoundCloud I've been talking about for low
50:24
Speaker 1: these many years. I do. I do have some things
50:26
Speaker 1: in the works though, Uh and I appreciate the shout out. Ben,
50:29
Speaker 1: um huge thanks to Christopher hasciotes here in spirit Gay
50:32
Speaker 1: Blusier research or Extraordinary who will be joining us. We've
50:35
Speaker 1: got him on the books for a very special episode,
50:40
Speaker 1: very special episode. Um, I can't wait. We had a
50:43
Speaker 1: really nice talk with him the other day. Things are
50:46
Speaker 1: going great. We're all still friends and I think he
50:49
Speaker 1: might be dropping in a little more on a regular
50:52
Speaker 1: schedule coming up soon. Yeah, we finally talked Goodbye into
50:56
Speaker 1: hanging out with us. It was very much a bromance
51:00
Speaker 1: eating I think, but I can't wait to have you
51:02
Speaker 1: on Gabe of course. Also speaking music, huge thanks to
51:05
Speaker 1: Alex Williams who composed this slap and bop you're probably
51:09
Speaker 1: hearing crescendo gently in the background now, And thanks to
51:14
Speaker 1: Jonathan Strickland's who you Know a k The Quister who
51:19
Speaker 1: you Know would have absolutely killed it with some ridiculous
51:22
Speaker 1: British accents in today's show. Agreed, We'll see you next time. Books.
51:37
Speaker 1: For more podcasts for my Heart Radio, visit the I
51:39
Speaker 1: Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to
51:42
Speaker 1: your favorite shows.