Latest / Veterinary Ramblings / Ep 13: Euthanasia & Outdoor sports with Dr Carl Gorman

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Ep 13: Euthanasia & Outdoor sports with Dr Carl Gorman · Veterinary Ramblings

• 0:00
  Mike Brampton: Good evening and welcome to Episode...
• 0:07
  Julian Hoad: Five, four, five? Season Two...
• 0:12
  Mike Brampton: Welcome to episode five of series two of Veterinary Ramblings. My name's Mike Brampton.
• 0:22
  Julian Hoad: And my name is Julian hoad.
• 0:24
  Mike Brampton: Welcome aboard everybody.
• 0:26
  Julian Hoad: Welcome
• 0:27
  Mike Brampton: Cheers.
• 0:28
  Julian Hoad: Pour yourself a drink, sit back and listen
• 0:32
  Mike Brampton: Enjoy the show, because we've got quite a guest on our show this evening. And I have no idea where the show is gonna go.
• 0:43
  Julian Hoad: You may not believe it sitting at home there. You may not believe that. Actually, this isn't always completely scripted. But actually, it's not completely scripted.
• 0:53
  Mike Brampton: No
• 0:53
  Julian Hoad: we obviously have several pages of script. And more here, there we go. Yeah, but you know, it's not completely scripted.
• 1:07
  Mike Brampton: Well, no, well, I never look at the notes.
• 1:11
  Julian Hoad: I'll be honest, it's a little bit of a mess, isn't it? Yeah.
• 1:16
  Mike Brampton: I can't get my head around any of it at all. But, you know, such as life but...
• 1:30
  Mike Brampton: We've certainly got a well travelled visitor this evening, haven't we?
• 1:35
  Julian Hoad: We have. He's been to pretty much every country in the world and lived for a good five or 10 years on every country in the world.
• 1:41
  Mike Brampton: Yep.
• 1:42
  Julian Hoad: Makes him about 250. And he doesn't look it at all.
• 1:47
  Mike Brampton: He doesn't, I calculated he was actually 263.
• 1:51
  Julian Hoad: Is he really?
• 1:51
  Mike Brampton: Yeah, I've only known him for about 25 years. But
• 1:55
  Julian Hoad: Yeah, I've known him for about that. And he hasn't changed a bit during that time.
• 2:02
  Julian Hoad: I've noticed he's got a little thin on top.
• 2:07
  Mike Brampton: Really?
• 2:08
  Julian Hoad: Little bit. Yeah
• 2:10
  Mike Brampton: Aww bless. I've got a whole plan in place in case that happens to me.
• 2:15
  Julian Hoad: Yeah, me too. Me too. Yeah. Not for a while yet for us.
• 2:20
  Julian Hoad: Good. Good.
• 2:21
  Mike Brampton: No chance on that one. Fair enough.
• 2:23
  Mike Brampton: But yeah, so our guest tonight works as a clinical instructor & mentor for the new Surrey vet school. He has also been a small animal editor.
• 2:37
  Mike Brampton: And lately, the consultant editor for UK vet companion animal journal.
• 2:45
  Julian Hoad: Other veterinary journals do exist, of course.
• 2:47
  Mike Brampton: Yes, of course. Other veterinary journals do exist. He's actually done that for nearly 20 years now, would you believe.
• 2:53
  Julian Hoad: Has he really?
• 2:54
  Mike Brampton: Yeah, he's also written a book.
• 2:57
  Julian Hoad: He has, he has written a book
• 2:59
  Mike Brampton: At least one.
• 3:00
  Julian Hoad: Yeah, yeah. We'll have to get him talking about that. Because one of the best chapters in it is how to say farewell to the dog.
• 3:07
  Julian Hoad: And I think that's quite an important one to touch on, really, isn't it?
• 3:12
  Mike Brampton: Well, we'll ask him about that.
• 3:14
  Mike Brampton: Because he's also a small animal vet, working on the front line.
• 3:19
  Mike Brampton: He gets involved in, he's very involved in animal welfare
• 3:24
  Julian Hoad: and wildlife rescue
• 3:25
  Mike Brampton: wildlife rescue, indeed, which is something I share because I'm a trustee of one of the UK's biggest wildlife animal charities.
• 3:36
  Mike Brampton: And general all round good egg.
• 3:39
  Mike Brampton: Should we get him in because I've just heard him ping say that he's in the waiting room.
• 3:42
  Julian Hoad: Let's get him in.
• 3:44
  Mike Brampton: what's his name again?
• 3:47
  Julian Hoad: It's Carl, Carl Gorman
• 3:51
  Mike Brampton: Okay, so with that. Good evening, Carl Gorman!
• 3:57
  Julian Hoad: Good evening Carl!
• 3:58
  Carl Gorman: I'm amazed
• 3:59
  Mike Brampton: what it worked.
• 4:02
  Carl Gorman: I'm amazed from your end and I'm amazed from my end.
• 4:08
  Julian Hoad: But we can't get any better than that. So let's say good night.
• 4:10
  Mike Brampton: Absolutely.
• 4:11
  Mike Brampton: So with that note, we're hope you enjoyed the show.
• 4:15
  Mike Brampton: Hope you enjoyed the show and may your dog go with you. Good night.
• 4:19
  Julian Hoad: May your dog go with you.
• 4:22
  Julian Hoad: I went skiing in France couple of years back and we went out skiing one day with the owner of the chalet.
• 4:29
  Julian Hoad: And his eight year old son and it's cold morning so you know, put an extra layer on, sitting in the chairlift like that.
• 4:36
  Julian Hoad: And this little kid looked round and asked his dad, he looked and he said 'Mr. Hoad's very fat, isn't he?'
• 4:48
  Julian Hoad: And his father said 'Come on, don't be fattest.'
• 4:50
  Julian Hoad: He said 'I'm not, he's fattest by far!'
• 5:01
  Mike Brampton: That's brilliant. Do you do ski Carl?
• 5:03
  Carl Gorman: I do. I do. I haven't been for a couple of years. But yes, I enjoy it a lot.
• 5:08
  Julian Hoad: Where do you normally go?
• 5:11
  Carl Gorman: All over the place, but mostly to France, but I've been to Livigno in Italy.
• 5:17
  Carl Gorman: And actually the first place I went, which was the first winter after I qualified was up to Val Thorens, which was the highest ski resort.
• 5:27
  Carl Gorman: Having never been skiing before wasn't necessarily the best idea. But I got on very well.
• 5:33
  Carl Gorman: And our ski instructor was a French guy called Andre.
• 5:38
  Carl Gorman: And he thought I was doing so well, by the Thursday of our first week, he decided to take me on a tour with all the experience skiiers.
• 5:45
  Carl Gorman: So we went up to the top of the highest ski resort in France.
• 5:51
  Carl Gorman: And I remember getting out of the lift at the top, and it was misty, and there was this ledge that must have been about eight feet wide that we all had to shuffle along.
• 6:02
  Carl Gorman: And then we just, he said, 'Follow me' and headed down this vertical slope.
• 6:07
  Carl Gorman: And I was sort of making my way down and there was girls in the group clinging to the slope crying.
• 6:15
  Carl Gorman: I don't know if I can survive this
• 6:17
  Julian Hoad: It's quite pernicious, isn't it? Off the chairlift onto the glassier at the top of Val Thorens?
• 6:21
  Carl Gorman: Yeah, it was. It was designed to make or break.
• 6:26
  Mike Brampton: I skied Val Thorens once.
• 6:28
  Mike Brampton: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I ended up with concussion and third degree burns all down my back.
• 6:36
  Carl Gorman: It's funny, you know, because one of our group, but yes, skied off of a 30 foot drop that
• 6:41
  Mike Brampton: it's, it's the only time I broke 200 kilometres an hour.
• 6:47
  Mike Brampton: And I crashed in the run out area at the French World Cup, in 1980, be about 89.
• 6:58
  Mike Brampton: So I ski the course, ski through the time trap.
• 7:01
  Mike Brampton: And there was a compression, a sharp dip, just at the edge of the bottom of the timing track.
• 7:08
  Mike Brampton: And I tumbled over backwards.
• 7:11
  Mike Brampton: And because I didn't finish standing upright in control, my time didn't count.
• 7:19
  Mike Brampton: However, it did cause a postponement of the whole event, because the whole of the world's top 10 ladies had all crashed at that point.
• 7:28
  Mike Brampton: And as I was just outside the top 20, I was one of the first men to actually run it.
• 7:34
  Mike Brampton: And they they thought that it was obviously a girl thing that they all wiped out.
• 7:40
  Mike Brampton: So they sent the men down and I was one of the first to go and I wiped out as well.
• 7:44
  Mike Brampton: So with my wipe had, they postponed everything.
• 7:47
  Mike Brampton: And unfortunately for me, all the medics were busy at that time.
• 7:51
  Mike Brampton: And I've got a vague memory of one of my pals skiing down the resort with me.
• 7:59
  Mike Brampton: And I, the other memory I have is I walked into the wrong hotel and walked into the first bedroom that I could find, the French family where there having their lunch.
• 8:10
  Julian Hoad: I thought it's gonna be the old excuse. I'm sorry, ma'am, I'm in the wrong room
• 8:16
  Mike Brampton: You think racing, you think ski racing is glamorous?
• 8:19
  Julian Hoad: They were carpet burns. Where they Mike?
• 8:22
  Mike Brampton: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah.
• 8:24
  Mike Brampton: Because at that speed as you're tumbling and bouncing your thin rubber suit very quickly heats up with the friction of the ice.
• 8:36
  Mike Brampton: 'Oh, ow ow ow'
• 8:39
  Mike Brampton: Trying to move various bits to make it more comfortable.
• 8:43
  Mike Brampton: I went back up that afternoon I recorded they move the start level bit lower down.
• 8:48
  Mike Brampton: And I recorded 186.86 kilometres per hour.
• 8:54
  Carl Gorman: Unbelievable.
• 8:55
  Carl Gorman: That's incredible.
• 8:58
  Mike Brampton: The things we do in iur youth eh.
• 9:00
  Julian Hoad: Absolutely. I got 76 miles an hour once.
• 9:04
  Julian Hoad: I'm quite pleased with that.
• 9:07
  Carl Gorman: Intentionally?
• 9:08
  Julian Hoad: all the way down. Yes.
• 9:12
  Mike Brampton: 76, I was clocked 76 miles per hour.
• 9:17
  Mike Brampton: I crashed that day as well, which is why I took up speed skiing.
• 9:20
  Mike Brampton: But anyway, let's move on.
• 9:23
  Mike Brampton: Your look incredulous Carl?
• 9:27
  Mike Brampton: Did you not know that you're talking to one of the one of the world's fastest ski racers back in the day?
• 9:35
  Carl Gorman: Very impressive.
• 9:36
  Mike Brampton: Yeah. No, no, they're doing 150 miles an hour nowadays.
• 9:40
  Carl Gorman: Are they really?
• 9:40
  Mike Brampton: Yeah, yeah. So my 120 mile an hour is nothing. 151. I think the world record is now
• 9:53
  Carl Gorman: That's just insane.
• 9:56
  Julian Hoad: It is.
• 9:58
  Mike Brampton: Sorry, I've killed the whole evening.
• 10:00
  Julian Hoad: How do you wipe your googles or answer a phone call at that speed?
• 10:03
  Julian Hoad: Its ridiculous, isn't it
• 10:05
  Mike Brampton: I can tell you a few stories about that.
• 10:06
  Mike Brampton: But I won't worry about that now.
• 10:09
  Mike Brampton: Because actually, Carl and I share some other interests, which is things like long distance walking and cycling?
• 10:17
  Julian Hoad: Well I share the long distance walking with you.
• 10:20
  Mike Brampton: You do.
• 10:21
  Julian Hoad: I'm not very good at cycling.
• 10:22
  Julian Hoad: So I continue to get knocked off when I cycle isn't good for me.
• 10:27
  Carl Gorman: Well, if you stopped telling people when you were going out, Julian
• 10:32
  Mike Brampton: I'll be on the A24 from about 10: 30. Heading north.
• 10:43
  Julian Hoad: Did you do much cycling Carl, are you?
• 10:45
  Carl Gorman: I do. Yeah, I don't. I don't aim to go very fast.
• 10:49
  Carl Gorman: But we like to do the distances.
• 10:52
  Carl Gorman: So So apart from the off road things are, you know, the London to Edinburgh cycle was the last sort of
• 11:01
  Mike Brampton: When did you do that?
• 11:03
  Carl Gorman: That's about five years ago, I think.
• 11:05
  Mike Brampton: Have you done anything like that since?
• 11:07
  Carl Gorman: Not since. No. Well, I did the
• 11:10
  Carl Gorman: I've done a few velothons and things.
• 11:12
  Carl Gorman: So we did the Wales Velothon, which was two years ago.
• 11:15
  Carl Gorman: And that was quite tough simply because I mean, it was fantastic because they closed 100 miles of road for us to ride on.
• 11:22
  Carl Gorman: So it was like being on the Tour de France, you know
• 11:25
  Julian Hoad: I'd like that I'd like cycling if they closed the road.
• 11:29
  Carl Gorman: It was it was 30 degrees at the top of the Breacons on the top.
• 11:33
  Carl Gorman: So they had to put in extra water tankers.
• 11:35
  Carl Gorman: And people are out there with their hose in the front garden sprayin.
• 11:40
  Carl Gorman: It was you know, as an experience, it was fantastic.
• 11:45
  Carl Gorman: The other ones we've done, they haven't closed the road. So it's not being quite such fun.
• 11:50
  Carl Gorman: And we were due to do the dragon ride this year, which is again, it was 90 kilometres around the Breacons but of course
• 11:57
  Mike Brampton: That's 90 kilometres with the final 10 or 12.
• 12:02
  Carl Gorman: That's right
• 12:05
  Carl Gorman: That was the trouble with the velothon was that it was a long ride.
• 12:09
  Carl Gorman: But you went about 60 kilometres on relatively flat stuff, and then all of a sudden, you went up the tumble, which is realistic, and just and then everything was just hills after that.
• 12:21
  Carl Gorman: So they waited till you'd sort of worn yourself out a bit and then
• 12:25
  Julian Hoad: it's not fair, is it?
• 12:27
  Julian Hoad: But long distance walking, yes, cetainly in to that.
• 12:30
  Julian Hoad: And that you're you're in the process of doing a walk in Wales, aren't you?
• 12:36
  Carl Gorman: Yes. The round the way up, round the coastal path.
• 12:40
  Carl Gorman: And actually, eventually I suppose it's joined up with Offa's dyke path so you can actually do a whole to circumnavigation
• 12:47
  Mike Brampton: Navigation of Wales?
• 12:48
  Carl Gorman: Yes.
• 12:49
  Julian Hoad: Circumperambulation
• 12:51
  Carl Gorman: Circumperambulation. That's it
• 12:53
  Mike Brampton: Could you not get on your bicycle at Conwy Castle in the north?
• 12:57
  Mike Brampton: And then ride down to Cardiff?
• 13:00
  Carl Gorman: Well, I'm sure you could.
• 13:01
  Carl Gorman: Yes, I've done it the other way.
• 13:03
  Carl Gorman: From Cardiff to Hollyhead, which was, that was very good.
• 13:08
  Mike Brampton: You can do it Off Road, it's an off road route, isn't it?
• 13:11
  Carl Gorman: yes, which is the green route.
• 13:13
  Carl Gorman: And it took four days and you cross three mountain ranges, which is always good. And yeah, it was it was
• 13:22
  Carl Gorman: it was a good achievement. I think at the time
• 13:24
  Mike Brampton: Why? Why would you do such a thing Carl?
• 13:27
  Carl Gorman: It was to raise money for our local school.
• 13:29
  Carl Gorman: On that occasion. We were after a classroom for, my kids went to a very, very tiny village school in the village near Newbury, and only only about 100 pupils all together.
• 13:41
  Carl Gorman: And we needed a new classroom. So we just set off to raise the money. And that was one of one of the things we did is good, fantastic.
• 13:50
  Julian Hoad: Your not suggesting the government wouldn't reach deeply into its pocket and fund the classroom itself. Would you?
• 13:56
  Carl Gorman: No
• 13:58
  Mike Brampton: Carl wouldn't do that sort of thing
• 14:03
  Julian Hoad: So is your school part of the worthless campaign?
• 14:09
  Julian Hoad: It's a thing Mike in Sussex, most of the primary schools and the senior schools actually belong to sothing called the worth less campaign.
• 14:17
  Julian Hoad: Because pound for pound our students get less than London students.
• 14:22
  Mike Brampton: Really?
• 14:23
  Julian Hoad: Yeah.
• 14:24
  Mike Brampton: It's not normally reserved for people up in Yorkshire Northumberland, that complain about that.
• 14:30
  Julian Hoad: Yeah, it's everyone who's not in London.
• 14:32
  Carl Gorman: Yes.
• 14:34
  Mike Brampton: Right. So it's called the worthless campaign?
• 14:37
  Julian Hoad: worth less
• 14:38
  Mike Brampton: right.
• 14:39
  Mike Brampton: Suggesting that they are, that that pupils in Sussex are worth less than those in the boroughs of London?
• 14:48
  Julian Hoad: In the metropolis. Absolutely.
• 14:50
  Mike Brampton: All right. Does that, have you come across that Carl?
• 14:53
  Carl Gorman: No, I haven't. Although I do know about the cause and we were, my ex wife was governor of this school and Kitt Sturgis is the governor of his local and in the New Forest and he was
• 14:53
  Carl Gorman: telling me the struggles because I suppose you see things from both sides.
• 15:10
  Carl Gorman: Don't you as a sort of parent or just a normal person you think,
• 15:14
  Carl Gorman: 'Oh my goodness, why didn't they have an extra teacher here? Or why can't they provide things? Why'd you have to pay for school trips?'
• 15:20
  Carl Gorman: And then you see the other side of the coin where they have such tight budgets and something has to give because there's just no room for manoeuvre and you're quite right.
• 15:29
  Carl Gorman: The schools outside of London get a much lower allowance budget.
• 15:33
  Julian Hoad: They do. Carl, do you, we've got on your bio that you absolutely hate travelling.
• 15:40
  Julian Hoad: You've only ever lived in England and don't go anywhere. Is that right?
• 15:46
  Carl Gorman: Yeah, you know, till I moved to Newbury.
• 15:50
  Carl Gorman: I've never really lived in the same place for more than two or three years.
• 15:54
  Carl Gorman: And so it feels a bit strange to have been in this same same place for 30 something years now.
• 16:00
  Carl Gorman: 1989 we moved and took on the practice.
• 16:03
  Carl Gorman: But yes, Born in Malaysia, moved to West Africa at the age of four and stayed there for seven years.
• 16:11
  Carl Gorman: Then back to Malaysia and then back to Africa and off to them.
• 16:15
  Carl Gorman: Well, my father was in the Middle East briefly. We didn't actually stay there while he was there.
• 16:19
  Carl Gorman: But Indonesia, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh and Thailand.
• 16:25
  Carl Gorman: It was a lovely childhood, interspelled with spells that English boarding schools really and you know, not in the modern era was in the proper old Tom brand school lazier with fags that ran the
• 16:25
  Carl Gorman: cricket pitch in the morning for punishment. Yes.
• 16:46
  Julian Hoad: For extra tuck and all that.
• 16:48
  Carl Gorman: Yeah, absolutely.
• 16:49
  Carl Gorman: Yes, we tuck three times a week and we were allowed three, well it was seven old pence and when decimalisation came in, they cut us down to three p, it should have been three and a half p, but we got
• 16:49
  Carl Gorman: three p instead.
• 17:02
  Carl Gorman: Which would buy you a Mars bar or a packet of crisps
• 17:04
  Julian Hoad: Buy you a pint in those days wouldn't it, not at school
• 17:09
  Carl Gorman: And a the room for the night.
• 17:13
  Mike Brampton: Because there's a whole index isn't there?
• 17:15
  Mike Brampton: That says where the retail prices are in relation to the price of a Mars bar
• 17:22
  Carl Gorman: Absolutely, yes, that's quite a good idea really.
• 17:26
  Mike Brampton: So you follow that do you?
• 17:28
  Carl Gorman: No, I we did for a while. I remember.
• 17:31
  Carl Gorman: I remember being very interested in it one at one point, but it you know, just got it got a bit ridiculous.
• 17:36
  Carl Gorman: I do remember going to but when I was at Tunbridge, my dad came to see me one weekend and we were wandering through the town and happened to look at an estate agents.
• 17:45
  Carl Gorman: And I remember seeing this fantastic house.
• 17:47
  Carl Gorman: It was massive house pool, tennis courts, boathouses, a billiard room which I was particularly impressed by and acres and acres of garden and I remember this house cost 50,000 pounds, I remember
• 17:47
  Carl Gorman: saying to my dad, I said one day I'll have a house worth 50,000
• 18:10
  Julian Hoad: So it sounds like an amazing upbringing.
• 18:12
  Carl Gorman: It was great. Yes. And my dad was always he was a civil engineer.
• 18:16
  Carl Gorman: But he was always very interested in in animals. So we had a huge Menagerie wherever we were, sort of nice deer and cockatoos and he used like German Shepherds.
• 18:27
  Carl Gorman: So we had about three or four German Shepherds in Malaysia.
• 18:30
  Carl Gorman: When we went to the Gambia, West Africa, we had lots of parrots.
• 18:35
  Carl Gorman: And I remember being given a homing pigeon that I called Miranda once, which was just as we were moving up country.
• 18:42
  Carl Gorman: So a friend of ours gave us this pigeon, which I put in a small cardboard box, to a country, to where we were moving because normally we live by the coast but for a year, we were posted into this sort
• 18:42
  Carl Gorman: of dark interior.
• 18:56
  Carl Gorman: And of course, Miranda promptly flew home. So I had her for about 10 minutes and then
• 19:03
  Mike Brampton: yeah, I used to sell pigeons too. Well, you know, needs must you know, times are tight, you know,
• 19:12
  Carl Gorman: and they come back
• 19:13
  Mike Brampton: Here you go guv, pidgeon.
• 19:16
  Mike Brampton: Always come home, always come home
• 19:21
  Carl Gorman: Actually the the nice thing about the Gambia was the first prime minister and president of the Gambia was a guy called Dawda Jawara and he was a vet, he went to Glasgow vet school.
• 19:32
  Carl Gorman: So I was in good hands in the Gambia and had a government veterinary officer called Donny Graham, who was a Scots guy and he had a parrot.
• 19:44
  Carl Gorman: I remember the parrot could whistle the Laurel and Hardy theme tune. That was his party trick.
• 19:55
  Julian Hoad: We're straying away from the point, I can't remember the point was, but I know what it is.
• 20:00
  Julian Hoad: Let's move on because we're talking about long distance walking. And then you said you're in the north and that would segue quite nicely into, I've just come back from Northumberland were a part of
• 20:00
  Julian Hoad: Hadrian's Wall.
• 20:11
  Carl Gorman: Ah,
• 20:12
  Julian Hoad: that's a fascinating place. Isn't it?
• 20:14
  Carl Gorman: Great. Really good. Yes. Yes. Yes.
• 20:17
  Carl Gorman: I walked that a few years ago that was another charity do and I think that three of us went with my with my collie dog and we walked the length of Hadrian's Wall, which was fantastic.
• 20:29
  Carl Gorman: Never been to Newcastle before and that was an eye opener.
• 20:33
  Julian Hoad: Can you speak the language?
• 20:34
  Carl Gorman: i? Bonnie lad.
• 20:38
  Mike Brampton: So it was the young ladies out in the middle of winter, wearing virtually no clothes, that was the eye opener?
• 20:45
  Carl Gorman: Well, yes. anytime of the year.
• 20:47
  Carl Gorman: I don't know what they do when they get hot.
• 20:50
  Carl Gorman: Because they've got nothing else to take off have they?
• 20:54
  Julian Hoad: There's nothing else is there, to take off.
• 20:57
  Julian Hoad: So it's around 90 miles, isn't it?
• 20:59
  Carl Gorman: Yes.
• 21:00
  Julian Hoad: So you could walk it in in three days if you really put your foot down.
• 21:04
  Julian Hoad: But I guess what you did in five did you and?
• 21:06
  Carl Gorman: We did it in four.
• 21:10
  Carl Gorman: We stayed for two nights at one end in a place called Walk which was near, which was near Newcastle.
• 21:18
  Carl Gorman: And we stayed at a pub called The Black Bull.
• 21:24
  Carl Gorman: And it was right next door to a pub called The White Bull.
• 21:27
  Carl Gorman: And apparently they'd been one pub called The Grey Bull and the two owners had fallen out. So they split it in two.
• 21:37
  Carl Gorman: I remember one of the guys I went walking with was quite quite quite posh.
• 21:41
  Carl Gorman: He's an auctioneer for a local auction house here and we decided to eat in the first night.
• 21:48
  Carl Gorman: So we we sat in the restaurant, and the landlady was most excited to have residents or guests.
• 21:54
  Carl Gorman: And she brought us off food. And then asked us what we'd like to drink.
• 21:59
  Carl Gorman: And my friend Chris said, 'Could we see the wine list?'
• 22:03
  Carl Gorman: And she looked at him in confusion. And she went 'We've got red or white.'
• 22:10
  Carl Gorman: So we chose the red.
• 22:13
  Carl Gorman: She said, 'How was it?' He went 'Very nice. Thank you' being a polite man.
• 22:18
  Carl Gorman: When we ate there the next day, she said 'You recommended the wine, I've been off and brought 4 cases of it.'
• 22:26
  Carl Gorman: She'd filled the cellar with whatever dreadful red wine she'd got
• 22:35
  Mike Brampton: Outrageous. So that was your first night. And so you walked from east to west?
• 22:41
  Carl Gorman: We walked from east to west, the second two nights, we were in a sort of bed and breakfast near the other end.
• 22:47
  Carl Gorman: And I don't remember too much about that.
• 22:50
  Carl Gorman: But I do remember the local pub which had as many whiskies as well, you could you know, as there are stars in the sky.
• 22:57
  Julian Hoad: It's a It's a beautiful place. Actually, I've never been there before. Northumberland. And I just I, I absolutely love Roman history.
• 23:11
  Carl Gorman: Yes.
• 23:13
  Julian Hoad: And Geology. I could have just spent every single day on the forts or the walls.
• 23:19
  Julian Hoad: But unfortunately, I have a wife and two, not unfortunately, but fortunately, I have a wife and two daughters.
• 23:27
  Julian Hoad: Sadly, they're not as interested in, in archaeology as me.
• 23:32
  Julian Hoad: And by the third fort, which is really nice housesteads, which is a great store, the only intact room and latrine and which I made full use of when I was there.
• 23:47
  Julian Hoad: And but the we got there about a 10 minute walk in from the car park. And we got there, walked through the the South Gate and my youngest daughter said 'Could we go now, get ice cream?'
• 23:59
  Julian Hoad: 'No, no, we've only just arrived.' I've never seen such a grumpy expression on anyone ever.
• 24:07
  Julian Hoad: And she maintained that expression for next hour and a half.
• 24:11
  Julian Hoad: While I said 'Isn't this amazing, this is the North Gate, now by the looks of things this was closed up shortly after the fort was open.
• 24:18
  Julian Hoad: And actually you can see why can't because the rebuff on the north side is actually very steep.
• 24:23
  Julian Hoad: So I suspect they would have built another gate. Yes, there it is. Just'
• 24:29
  Carl Gorman: My sympathy for the family.
• 24:32
  Julian Hoad: They went to get an ice cream they'd gone
• 24:36
  Julian Hoad: I looked at the trains on my own.
• 24:45
  Julian Hoad: Mike, we finished Hadrian's Wall now I think. Mike Mike,
• 24:50
  Julian Hoad: Mike
• 24:51
  Carl Gorman: Brampton, Brampton.
• 24:54
  Julian Hoad: That's it, there we go.
• 24:54
  Mike Brampton: Oh, sorry. I must have nodded off there. Were you talking about Roman history by any chance Julian?
• 25:01
  Julian Hoad: I might have mentioned it. Yeah, just just once or twice.
• 25:03
  Mike Brampton: Fair enough. Yeah,
• 25:05
  Mike Brampton: I walked along the wall, I walked on the wall twice.
• 25:08
  Carl Gorman: Excellent.
• 25:09
  Julian Hoad: Have you?
• 25:10
  Mike Brampton: Not all the way because the Pennine Way goes up to the wall, across a little bit and then it carries on off into the forest.
• 25:18
  Mike Brampton: I've been dealing Scottish lowlands near pike and somewhere else Kirk Yetholm
• 25:28
  Julian Hoad: Thats a made up name isn't
• 25:30
  Mike Brampton: Yeah
• 25:31
  Julian Hoad: it doesn't mean anything.
• 25:34
  Mike Brampton: But but but Mr. Wayne Wright of Wayne Wrights walking guide book did a very honourable thing in that when you arrive at the pub the end of the Pennine Way,
• 25:50
  Mike Brampton: you go in there and you show them the book and you pretend that you walked the whole however 100 miles or 200 or 300 miles it is from Edale in Derbyshire and they stand you a pint.
• 26:06
  Carl Gorman: Very nice
• 26:08
  Mike Brampton: As a congratulations you've walked the Pennine Way.
• 26:11
  Julian Hoad: Oh, fantastic.
• 26:13
  Carl Gorman: Consider that worth the trip just for a free pint.
• 26:16
  Mike Brampton: Yeah, absolutely. Well, that's why I did it twice.
• 26:20
  Julian Hoad: You have a bottle of gin. I got a bottle of gin when I was up in Northumberland and there's a place called Alnwick, did you go to Alnwich when you were there?
• 26:30
  Julian Hoad: Spelled Alnwick.
• 26:31
  Mike Brampton: Alnwich, yes. Yeah.
• 26:34
  Julian Hoad: And theres this is bottle of gin made in Alnwick
• 26:37
  Mike Brampton: Theres a castle there?
• 26:39
  Julian Hoad: Alnwich Castle there. And I thought you might actually like this Carl, if you did like any Gin at all
• 26:48
  Carl Gorman: Ah well I would do yes
• 26:54
  Mike Brampton: Whys that, are you particularly into horse riding then Carl?
• 26:58
  Carl Gorman: It's a reference for my weakness for my football team.
• 27:03
  Mike Brampton: Your football team?
• 27:03
  Julian Hoad: Do we do we call it a football team? I ask only for information.
• 27:09
  Carl Gorman: We reached the heady heights of the European Cup final like a year ago before
• 27:17
  Carl Gorman: plunging back into the depths of obscurity.
• 27:20
  Mike Brampton: So you're a big fan of Manchester United then?
• 27:23
  Carl Gorman: Oh, God help us.
• 27:29
  Julian Hoad: I can see we're gonna get some football hooligans, mobbing the site now, aren't we?
• 27:34
  Mike Brampton: Yeah.
• 27:35
  Carl Gorman: Well, that's it got to appeal to my advice.
• 27:37
  Mike Brampton: Yes, absolutely. Just wear a bloody mask.
• 27:41
  Mike Brampton: Yes, sorry. Yes. So so I'm presuming that this is a team from the north London area.
• 27:49
  Carl Gorman: Correct, yes.
• 27:50
  Mike Brampton: Of Tottenham.
• 27:52
  Carl Gorman: Tottenham? Yes. The London team.
• 27:56
  Carl Gorman: The other team are from Woowich really.
• 27:58
  Carl Gorman: And they sort of invaded a few years ago. That being Arsenal by the way Mike
• 28:04
  Mike Brampton: Right, okay.
• 28:05
  Mike Brampton: Yes, yes.
• 28:07
  Julian Hoad: If they invaded, then what they should have done is build a war.
• 28:11
  Julian Hoad: Millwall or something, shouldn't they?
• 28:13
  Julian Hoad: Yeah, there's to be Hadrian's Wall up north.
• 28:17
  Julian Hoad: There's Millwall down south to handle the hotspur invaders.
• 28:22
  Mike Brampton: So how did you get into Tottenham Hotspur and football in the first place?
• 28:27
  Carl Gorman: Interestingly, yeah. Well, when I went to boarding school for first off, and it was 1969. Eddie, the heady years of I don't know.
• 28:42
  Carl Gorman: I don't think it was Stanley Matthews. But you know, it was a while ago.
• 28:46
  Carl Gorman: Anyway, in the early 70s. And everybody at school either supported Leeds or Chelsea
• 28:53
  Mike Brampton: That was that was the days of Billy Bremner
• 28:57
  Carl Gorman: Thats right. Yes. Peter Lorimer.
• 28:59
  Mike Brampton: Peter Benetti for Chelsea's is that right?
• 29:02
  Carl Gorman: Yes, the cat.
• 29:05
  Julian Hoad: I'm just thinking of Stanley Unwin.
• 29:08
  Mike Brampton: Yeah, right. Okay. Yeah.
• 29:09
  Mike Brampton: Don't worry, Carl.
• 29:10
  Mike Brampton: What I can do if need be is I can just pop him into the waiting room. And we can talk manly sport like football.
• 29:19
  Julian Hoad: He would as well, don't trust him.
• 29:20
  Carl Gorman: Yeah. Yeah. So to be contrary really, I supported Spurs. There's also because there was one other boy at school did come from the Gambia there.
• 29:30
  Carl Gorman: And his his older brother supported Spurs.
• 29:32
  Carl Gorman: So and, you know, these things are they stick once you once you're there, you sort of become a diehard supporter.
• 29:40
  Carl Gorman: So my son and my younger brother are afflicted in the same way so.
• 29:48
  Mike Brampton: Okay, well, in that case, let's carry that on, Julian. I mean, you know, are you afflicted in the same way?
• 29:54
  Mike Brampton: Is there a particular football team that you have an affinity for?
• 29:59
  Julian Hoad: Do you know, I'm not really a football person at all I'm afraid never have been
• 30:06
  Mike Brampton: Do you not get a tingle in the loins if we talk about Manchester City or no?
• 30:15
  Julian Hoad: I don't get many tingles in the loins these days.
• 30:18
  Carl Gorman: You save yourself a lot of anguish, if you're not interested in football I have to say, you know, I aspire to that.
• 30:25
  Mike Brampton: You actually go and watch these teams don't you?
• 30:28
  Carl Gorman: Yes, yeah. In fact, I went, I was very lucky.
• 30:33
  Carl Gorman: They moved to their new stadium after a long delay.
• 30:37
  Carl Gorman: And the first match I got to go and see there was, that was actually the quarterfinal of the of the European Championships thing.
• 30:44
  Carl Gorman: And that was when we beat Manchester City. And it was an extraordinary night and the stadium. You know, they keep saying it's the best Stadium in the world.
• 30:52
  Carl Gorman: And I wouldn't know but it is. It is a fantastic stadium.
• 30:55
  Mike Brampton: Which stadium is this, sorry.
• 30:56
  Carl Gorman: Well, it was White Hart Lane, but now it's the Tottenham Hotspur Stadium, which they sort of built over and around the existing Spurs Stadium, which was quite impressive. So it's great.
• 31:07
  Carl Gorman: And it'd be very good for the area because Tottenham is obviously quite a rundown and deprived area, but to have this magnificent stadium that will will lift it. I'm sure
• 31:19
  Julian Hoad: It might become a new Chelsea might it?
• 31:21
  Carl Gorman: Oh, my god,
• 31:22
  Julian Hoad: Because I'm sure that was rundown at one stage wasn't it?
• 31:26
  Carl Gorman: Yes, I'm sure it was, they were probably down to their last sort of Bentley or
• 31:30
  Julian Hoad: I imagine you're the same Carl, that you get a big buzz out of treating the pets, but as big a buzz after treating the owners?
• 31:38
  Carl Gorman: Absolutey
• 31:40
  Julian Hoad: A lot of the owners are now my friends.
• 31:42
  Julian Hoad: I've been treating their pets for 50 years.
• 31:45
  Julian Hoad: And I'm closer to them than distant members of my family. And it's really hard not having that rapport with them at the moment.
• 31:55
  Carl Gorman: Yeah, no, I agree. And it's why I do try to spend as much time with them in in the car park as I can.
• 32:01
  Carl Gorman: So that we maintain that, but and also, you know, a lot of I've had three now elderly gentleman, just as I get to take the lead for their dog, they just put their hand up to shake my hand
• 32:01
  Carl Gorman: automatically because that's just what they do.
• 32:18
  Carl Gorman: And then they're going 'oh, my goodness, I shouldn't be doing that.'
• 32:22
  Julian Hoad: 'I'll burn my hand when I get home Mr. Gorman its all right.' I'll chop my hand off. It's all right. Old Mr. February.
• 32:33
  Carl Gorman: I mean, euthanasia is the tough thing. Really.
• 32:35
  Julian Hoad: Yeah.
• 32:36
  Carl Gorman: Were quite lucky, we've got a decent garden out of the back.
• 32:40
  Carl Gorman: So we've been taking people around there and letting them sit with the dogs on the grass. And then we sort of gloved and done the deed
• 32:50
  Julian Hoad: Yeah, we do the same thing, in strict lockdown, we had an extended giving set.
• 32:57
  Julian Hoad: And now obviously can get a little bit closer. Cats as well. We tend to triple mix sedate them. So medazepam medetomidine, and morphine.
• 33:08
  Julian Hoad: And then we do that outside, because often it's with the rule we have at the moment that one client only can come in, well, that's not good enough.
• 33:17
  Julian Hoad: Because actually, when you're saying goodbye to your pet, it needs to be several of them.
• 33:21
  Julian Hoad: Usually the whole family. I'm saying I'm quoting pretty much from a book I read not long time ago by someone about euthanasia, really good book by I've got
• 33:34
  Mike Brampton: The Aged Dog or something, wasn't it?
• 33:35
  Julian Hoad: C Gorman, C Gorman.
• 33:37
  Mike Brampton: Was it called The Aging dog?
• 33:44
  Julian Hoad: In all seriousness, you have touched on a subject that is very close to the heart of every Vet.
• 33:51
  Julian Hoad: And it's, it's the most important part of our job isn't a Carl?
• 33:55
  Carl Gorman: I think so, yes. And you know, we always say this to the young vets, and it's always true, you'll get far more thanks after you've put a dog to sleep, then after all the effort you put to
• 33:55
  Carl Gorman: put it back together after the road traffic accident or to put it through leptospirosis or something.
• 34:11
  Carl Gorman: But, you know,
• 34:14
  Carl Gorman: What the clients remember is how you deal with those final moments. And yeah, it's definitely very important.
• 34:19
  Carl Gorman: So yes, The Ageing Dog
• 34:23
  Carl Gorman: I have, I knew you'd ask about The Ageing Dog.
• 34:26
  Carl Gorman: So here, here is The Ageing Dog.
• 34:28
  Julian Hoad: Yeah.
• 34:28
  Carl Gorman: All right. Here ok.
• 34:30
  Mike Brampton: So Carl is holding up to the screen The Ageing Dog which is a book titled The Ageing Dog with an old dog, and a lady walking the old dog down a long track.
• 34:42
  Carl Gorman: Yes. Now
• 34:43
  Julian Hoad: She's quite ageing as well, isn't she? Your not euthanasing her as well are you Carl?
• 34:48
  Carl Gorman: Well Henson, who published this did you know The Doglopaedia, The Catlopaedia?
• 34:56
  Carl Gorman: Lovely covers to those books.
• 34:57
  Carl Gorman: Well, you know, and then they come up with the this for my bloody book. And that lady looks very much like a receptionist we used to have called Cat, she was a very elderly lady.
• 35:08
  Carl Gorman: Always remember she used to go and do an exercise class after work in the evening and it was called Agile, Not Fragile.
• 35:19
  Carl Gorman: But, anyway, well, yes, you're quite right.
• 35:22
  Carl Gorman: You know, the chapter that the clients always come and points out to me is the chapter on euthanasia. They say 'Oh I read that it made me cry.'
• 35:32
  Julian Hoad: It's, it's a wonderful thing. For us to be able to do, as vets to be able to stop suffering.
• 35:40
  Julian Hoad: I won't get into the whole human euthanasia argument, but it is something that the I think we have as as almost a gift.
• 35:53
  Mike Brampton: A Privilege
• 35:54
  Julian Hoad: A privilege. But with that,obviously, comes huge responsibility. And we only get one chance at it
• 36:03
  Carl Gorman: Yes.
• 36:03
  Julian Hoad: So your chapter actually was written very compassionately, and very well, and gives, I think, new graduates, the right steer, to getting things right the first time because the first time
• 36:03
  Julian Hoad: is the only time.
• 36:21
  Julian Hoad: Although I'm sure you'll have anecdotes of when things didn't go right. As every vet does.
• 36:29
  Julian Hoad: And when you go to a vet reunion, particulaly the first couple of years after graduating, the most horrific stories are always around that time.
• 36:38
  Carl Gorman: They are, I mean, I think that
• 36:41
  Carl Gorman: I remember,
• 36:44
  Carl Gorman: We used to dread visits for euthanasia when you were a young vet because your out of your supportive environment, on your own or on your own with a nurse if you're lucky.
• 36:54
  Carl Gorman: And all the classic things like going to the house and the cat flying around and around the room. Your trying to bat it down every time it goes by.
• 37:06
  Carl Gorman: Or people never turn off the television when you go to put the home.
• 37:13
  Carl Gorman: It's terrible. You're trying to you know you're trying to concentrate on the dog but something interesting is going on on the telephone.
• 37:19
  Mike Brampton: It's a goooooooal!
• 37:20
  Julian Hoad: Oh, my goodness me. That's a young Morgan Fairchild, isn't it there? She's looking alright. Anyway, so.
• 37:29
  Julian Hoad: I remember I did a euthanasia once in a huge house in Kent, massive house.
• 37:36
  Julian Hoad: And it was in the kitchen, which is bigger than the house I'm living in now.
• 37:42
  Julian Hoad: And it was a great dane and everything went well. And the couple were obviously inconsolable and we're hugging each other and the dog.
• 37:53
  Julian Hoad: And I fumbled over a few words of sympathy and say, 'Well, I'll let myself out then.'
• 37:59
  Julian Hoad: They turn around and say, 'All right, thanks.' I turn around and I thought, now what bloody door did I come in?
• 38:07
  Julian Hoad: I dithered a bit and moved towards a few doors and eventually saw one I thought this is the door. Opened it, walked in.
• 38:14
  Julian Hoad: And I was in a walk in larder and I then panicked and thought, Well, what do I do?
• 38:20
  Julian Hoad: I should have just walked out again and found another door, but I stayed there for a while thinking, you know, perhaps I should wait until they're gone.
• 38:29
  Julian Hoad: And they open the door and say 'Are you alright?' and I said 'I'm sorry. I'm having a moment' and they said 'Oh you poor chap, oh you've taken it hard as well' and they ended up making me a cup of
• 38:29
  Julian Hoad: tea.
• 38:38
  Julian Hoad: And I think I got a glass of something out of it. I was there for an hour or so. Thinking this is the way out of this social faux pas!
• 38:48
  Carl Gorman: I remember it wasn't really a euthanasia, but I did a visit once. There was a very elderly lady that lived near here and she had a large male Dobermann. When it came into the surgery, I
• 38:48
  Carl Gorman: diagnosed atrial fibrillation.
• 39:10
  Carl Gorman: I spoke to the lady and said well, 'I'll come around to the house and I'll talk you through it and we'll start it off on some medication.'
• 39:19
  Carl Gorman: So I went round and I said 'well, we're gonna give this dog some propranolol beta blocker to try and you know, slow down this fast heart rate and see if we can just settle things down for him.'
• 39:21
  Carl Gorman: I said, 'But you have to be aware that you know, it's going to lower the blood pressure and the dog may be a little bit quiet or occasionally we get faints.' So she says 'Alright. Okay. Yes Mr
• 39:21
  Carl Gorman: Gorman'.
• 39:44
  Carl Gorman: And I remember, she was a very elderly lady and she was sat at her dining table watching me so I said, 'Would you like me to give the first dose for you?' She said 'Yes, please. Yes, please.' So it's
• 39:44
  Carl Gorman: a lovely dog, big as well.
• 39:57
  Carl Gorman: It sat down in front of me and I opened its mouth. I popped in this propranol tablet and it just went, keeled over, dead.
• 40:06
  Carl Gorman: And she sat there and she went, 'Oh, yes I see what you mean.'
• 40:14
  Carl Gorman: Oh, god, that was terrible that was, but um
• 40:18
  Julian Hoad: I remember going to a home visit on a night like tonight, you can probably hear the rain on the conservatory ceiling now, it's peeing down. I got called out about 11: 45.
• 40:32
  Mike Brampton: Rain on the conservatory roof
• 40:35
  Carl Gorman: Sound effects courtesy of
• 40:37
  Julian Hoad: It sounds very posh doesn't it? Yes
• 40:39
  Mike Brampton: I'm gonna go and do some sound effects whilst you go deep
• 40:41
  Julian Hoad: if you could, if you could.
• 40:43
  Julian Hoad: And this elderly lady, the dog had come to the end of the road and we spoke for a while and decided the best thing to do was to put her to sleep.
• 40:53
  Julian Hoad: And it was well past midnight, by the time that we did this.
• 40:58
  Julian Hoad: And I sat and had a cup of tea with her.
• 41:02
  Julian Hoad: And I said 'what would you like doing with the body?'
• 41:05
  Julian Hoad: And she said, 'so I'll bury it in the garden.'
• 41:08
  Julian Hoad: I said, 'Okay, all right, right.' And I got up to go and I said, 'when you said you'll bury it in the garden, you've got someone who will do it. Have you?'
• 41:20
  Julian Hoad: 'No, no, I'll do it. I'll take a couple of days over it.' And I said, 'Right, right. Okay, okay.'
• 41:29
  Julian Hoad: I started putting my coat on. I thought oh sod it! I said, Look, give me a shovel.
• 41:36
  Julian Hoad: I was there until 2 in the morning, I was completely covered in mud.
• 41:39
  Julian Hoad: I fell over several times because garden was on a slope and I dug this grave.
• 41:44
  Julian Hoad: And buried this little dog for her poor thing.
• 41:50
  Mike Brampton: Tell that to the kids today and they won't believe you.
• 41:55
  Julian Hoad: I woke up the next morning and my bed was absolutely coated in mud.
• 42:01
  Julian Hoad: I hadn't, I was too tired to actually undress when I got to bed.
• 42:06
  Carl Gorman: But you do do things like that for people don't you
• 42:11
  Carl Gorman: That's, I think that is, like you say, I think it's lovely to be part of the community.
• 42:16
  Carl Gorman: I wrote to the vet record recently, because they had a little article in there by somebody who'd said that they'd been at the pub and somebody had come in and asked them about their dog because they
• 42:16
  Carl Gorman: knew they were a vet, and they were complaining and saying, aren't I entitled to my own private life?
• 42:31
  Carl Gorman: And I say but no, you're you're a vet.
• 42:33
  Carl Gorman: It's a calling and you know, that's who you are, it defines you, it defines me anyway.
• 42:38
  Julian Hoad: Yeah, I quite agree. quite agree.
• 42:40
  Julian Hoad: Someone said to me, I was at a, wherever I are go, I'm sure its the same with you. People come up with 'I know. I mean, you're not working today but' actually, no, I never mind.
• 42:51
  Carl Gorman: No, no, do I
• 42:53
  Mike Brampton: That's not what you said when we were filming a video the other day
• 43:01
  Julian Hoad: I know a vet who does resent anyone asking him questions and whenever he's at a party with people he doesn't know
• 43:09
  Julian Hoad: and they say to him, 'what do you do?'
• 43:10
  Julian Hoad: He says, 'I'm a gynaecologist' on the basis that people will probably be either too embarrassed to ask him something or show him
• 43:22
  Julian Hoad: I don't know what sort of success rate he's had, but he's never been married.
• 43:28
  Carl Gorman: I bet you've had a lot of clients offering to show you things you probably didn't want to see
• 43:34
  Julian Hoad: Yeah rashes.
• 43:36
  Julian Hoad: 'Oh, yes, my dogs got this rash. So have I! Bit like that.'
• 43:41
  Carl Gorman: Soon after I started, I worked in Swindon briefly, and I remember quite a nice bloke and his wife coming in and they came in and the problem they wanted to describe was their dog, who'd
• 43:41
  Carl Gorman: kept having these, his balls kept appearing in the wrong place.
• 44:03
  Carl Gorman: After a bit of delving, obviously, it turned out is the normal you know, and so I explained all this to them and said it's part of the erectile tissue and that's quite normal.
• 44:15
  Carl Gorman: He turned to his wife and he said,
• 44:18
  Carl Gorman: 'Mine never does that does it!'
• 44:25
  Julian Hoad: Too much information.
• 44:31
  Julian Hoad: Brilliant.
• 44:33
  Carl Gorman: They do lose their inhibitions when they're talking to you, don't they, I mean, they'll confine anything.
• 44:38
  Julian Hoad: Yeah, yeah, they do. Which is sometimes lovely, isn't it?
• 44:43
  Julian Hoad: And you are, we say you're part of the community, your part of their their world sometimes and I do love that.
• 44:51
  Julian Hoad: As I've got older and as I've been working in a practice for longer, and then inevitably clients themselves have grown old and died or become ill and things and again it's it's wonderful being part of
• 44:51
  Julian Hoad: other people's lives and being able hopefully sometimes to support them and console them.
• 45:14
  Mike Brampton: Well, that's how you ended up with a dog isn't it?
• 45:17
  Julian Hoad: That's how I've ended up with a little dog, yes, little Jake has come to us his owner sadly isn't able to look after him anymore.
• 45:26
  Julian Hoad: So we have this lovely little dog who is exactly not the dog I ever thought I'd get.
• 45:32
  Carl Gorman: What is it?
• 45:33
  Julian Hoad: I thought I get a Labrador or something that would accompany me on the Pennine Way or Offa's Dike, instead I've got a shitzu-cross the can't walk more than 200 yards because it has a
• 45:33
  Julian Hoad: gammy leg.
• 45:47
  Mike Brampton: One gammy leg?
• 45:50
  Julian Hoad: One super gammy leg. The other three are kind of gammy, semi-gammy.
• 45:55
  Carl Gorman: Well, you wouldn't be a vet if you didn't have a collection of duff, duff creatures really.
• 46:01
  Mike Brampton: What duff creatures have you got then Carl?
• 46:04
  Carl Gorman: I've got a good collection of duff creatures.
• 46:06
  Carl Gorman: The latest one is Bernard the Dachshund, who was from a rescue in Wales, and he was being fostered by a vet down there nearWestern Supermare.
• 46:20
  Carl Gorman: And the rescue, he had elbow dysplasia because it could very wobbly front legs. Sort of normal for a Dachshund really.
• 46:30
  Carl Gorman: Anyway, they were trying to raise the money for an ulnar osteotomy or bilateral ulnar osteotomy and Claire spotted this dog and said, volunteered my services and said 'Oh well, if we have the dog,
• 46:30
  Carl Gorman: we'll do that for you.'
• 46:43
  Carl Gorman: So we went and picked up Bernard who was a lovely little dog.
• 46:48
  Carl Gorman: And I x-rayed him. I thought it's funny. This doesn't quite look like I was expecting.
• 46:54
  Carl Gorman: So send it off to the local orthopaedic chap. And he said 'oh god No, don't do an 'ulnar osteotomy.'
• 46:59
  Carl Gorman: A Radial hemiplegia, isn't it?
• 46:59
  Carl Gorman: He said 'he's got complete congenital dislocations of his elbows and his radial heads don't come anywhere near the elbow so he's just got ulners at the elbows.
• 47:11
  Carl Gorman: Yeah, it's an he said pretty severe case of it. But to be fair, he comes charging round he does a couple of miles walk with me quite happily.
• 47:20
  Carl Gorman: He does like parkour around the living room, he sort of leaps up onto the arms of the chairs and bounces around. He's great. Yes.
• 47:29
  Carl Gorman: And then we got a, I got a little kitten that we got from cats protection, which I went up to the cats protection weekly visit and saw this litter of kittens and this particular one wasn't breathing
• 47:29
  Carl Gorman: very well.
• 47:42
  Carl Gorman: So I said we need to X ray that so, I had it back at the practice and X ray it and looked like all of his abdominal contents were inside his chest at whatever age it was eight, nine weeks of age.
• 47:57
  Carl Gorman: So now we have to put this to sleep and they said okay, and as I was on the phone to them. It's just playing around in this cage and it looked quite happy.
• 48:05
  Carl Gorman: So I said 'I'll tell you what, I'll take it on and I'll do the surgery. I won't charge you but I'll take the cat on it'll probably die when we anaesthetize it anyway.'
• 48:13
  Carl Gorman: So we anaesthetized it and repaired this massive pericardio diaphragmatic hernia
• 48:23
  Julian Hoad: Peritoneal-pericardial diaphragmatic hernia I presume
• 48:25
  Carl Gorman: Terrible. I mean, you know very dramatic x rays.
• 48:29
  Carl Gorman: Sail through this bloody operation.
• 48:31
  Carl Gorman: And the next morning I went down to see how it was, I'd taken it home and put it in a cage at home and it climbed on top of this cage and lept off!
• 48:38
  Carl Gorman: And I've got a video I was taking a video to show how well it was doing and the video ends with me going 'oh god no' is it leaps off!
• 48:48
  Carl Gorman: And so he's seven now is Diesel and he's still going strong
• 48:51
  Julian Hoad: Brilliant.
• 48:54
  Carl Gorman: I keep saying to her, this animal it'll die quite soon. And she says, I don't believe you anymore.
• 49:01
  Julian Hoad: You're, obviously, you love your surgery. As do I and you're quite keen on gadgets as well, aren't you?
• 49:07
  Carl Gorman: Yes, we do like a good gadget. I mean, that's, you know, I think that's why I wanted to buy a practice in the first place so I could indulge myself.
• 49:13
  Carl Gorman: Yep.
• 49:15
  Carl Gorman: We got a couple of those funny blood pressure measuring things that gather dust in the back of the cupboard
• 49:22
  Mike Brampton: Get it out and use it.
• 49:24
  Carl Gorman: No, they're excellent. We use them a lot.
• 49:26
  Carl Gorman: And I'll tell you what I use them a lot for is my exotics as soon as they're asleep. On goes the Doppler. And it's great.
• 49:33
  Carl Gorman: They're really good for our, our lizards and even the birds and things, very good.
• 49:40
  Carl Gorman: So we do what they're meant to be used for, but that, but they're really really useful for that monitoring of those exotics.
• 49:45
  Mike Brampton: It was it was 24 years ago. I think, that I invented that thing.
• 49:52
  Carl Gorman: And I probably bought it 20 years ago
• 49:56
  Carl Gorman: Judging by the box.
• 49:59
  Mike Brampton: I'll look up the record shall I? And tell you how long you've owned your CAT+ doppler Mr Gorman.
• 50:02
  Julian Hoad: and slightly overdue a service I'm afraid Mr Gorman
• 50:05
  Mike Brampton: Yes, might be
• 50:08
  Mike Brampton: Still going strong today. Thank you very much for that little plug. I appreciate that.
• 50:12
  Carl Gorman: Yeah, I think you've had one or two of them back a couple of times.
• 50:15
  Carl Gorman: But they've done, they have done very well over the years.
• 50:17
  Carl Gorman: Yeah, they're very good.
• 50:19
  Julian Hoad: We've had to send a couple of ours back, and it's usually because people have dropped them.
• 50:23
  Carl Gorman: Yes.
• 50:25
  Mike Brampton: I'm sorry, I cannot be held responsible for that.
• 50:30
  Mike Brampton: You'd be surprised, I get phone calls.
• 50:32
  Mike Brampton: 'We've got one of your dopplers.' You sort of go, 'Yeah, where's this going?'
• 50:38
  Mike Brampton: 'And It's broken.' And it's as if it's my fault?
• 50:43
  Mike Brampton: They've had it 16 years.
• 50:45
  Julian Hoad: It's gone into a juggernaut. What are you gonna do about it?
• 50:52
  Mike Brampton: I don't know. All good, fun.
• 50:56
  Carl Gorman: My longtime favourite gadget was the co2 laser, which very popular America because of course, they do a lot of declawing of cats over there.
• 51:05
  Carl Gorman: And it's quick and relatively painless. Well, nothing's painless.
• 51:09
  Carl Gorman: But, but that's why a lot of clinics have them over there. But
• 51:13
  Mike Brampton: so that's a dead industry then. Hopefully.
• 51:17
  Carl Gorman: hopefully, yes. Yeah.
• 51:19
  Mike Brampton: Hopefully
• 51:21
  Carl Gorman: We bought it from KRUUSE many years ago.
• 51:24
  Carl Gorman: And they wanted me and some, I think, four other vets to be sort of demonstrators.
• 51:33
  Carl Gorman: So before buying it, they took us with one of their reps over to Colorado State University.
• 51:42
  Carl Gorman: To do the laser course over there.
• 51:44
  Carl Gorman: So we had a lovely, a lovely flight over.
• 51:47
  Carl Gorman: We picked up the hire car in Denver I think it was, we drove up to the university, had a brilliant night, turned up the university the next morning, and the tutor said, 'Oh,' he said, 'Well, day one's
• 51:47
  Carl Gorman: mostly just sort of anatomy and stuff for the undergraduates, you don't really need to attend this.'
• 52:04
  Carl Gorman: And we said, 'righto', turned around off we went, we visited the national parks, had a great day got completely lost.
• 52:11
  Carl Gorman: Got back to the Waffle House at about one o'clock in the morning. And did the course the next day before flying back. it was tremendous
• 52:24
  Mike Brampton: Can we take just a moment here, because we've touched on a subject that I'm quite passionate about, and I think you guys are probably quite passionate about as well.
• 52:34
  Mike Brampton: But because not all of our listeners and viewers are specifically vetinary. We've touched on subject about declawing cats.
• 52:47
  Mike Brampton: Can we just take a moment just to explain to those people that aren't specifically veterinary, just exactly what that operation is.
• 52:56
  Mike Brampton: And that it's not just a case of taking the nail off the end of the finger, or the phalange or the phalange, the toe.
• 53:06
  Mike Brampton: It's actually removing the whole of the first joint of the finger and the toe. Am I right in that?
• 53:14
  Carl Gorman: Yeah, yeah, absolutely right.
• 53:16
  Carl Gorman: And they will do it to 9 or 10 you know, well 10 toes on the front and eight toes on the back all in one go.
• 53:24
  Carl Gorman: And and these poor cats are in considerable discomfort afterwards and also you know, they are disadvantaged for the rest of their lives. I mean to be fair
• 53:36
  Julian Hoad: They can't climb, they can't protect themselves. They can't unravel people jumpers
• 53:41
  Carl Gorman: Yes, they can't, as you say, wake you up in the night by clawing you helpfully.
• 53:50
  Carl Gorman: It's no it's a, you know, psychologically for a cat. It's quite it's a bit like coming birds with clipped wings that can't fly
• 54:02
  Mike Brampton: So that actually leads to a number of psychological issues, doesn't it?
• 54:05
  Mike Brampton: And that, that presents itself with the cat urinating inappropriately, marking territories, they struggle with their litter trays, and all of that sort of stuff.
• 54:16
  Mike Brampton: So I understand that gradually, the movement is growing across America, and it's now it's now illegal in most states. It is illegal in the UK, isn't it?
• 54:26
  Julian Hoad: It is illegal. It has been illegal for many years in the UK.
• 54:33
  Julian Hoad: It was legal to remove due claws from dogs up until a while back it's outlawed now although there are still quite a few people that will do it certain breeds.
• 54:46
  Julian Hoad: It's in the same group as detoothing, devocalising and cropping ears. They're mutilations.
• 54:53
  Julian Hoad: And, interestingly enough, there's as little nonsense aside here. If you remove a digit from an animal, then that's mutilation.
• 55:05
  Julian Hoad: And I always think, as I imagine everyone else does, of the Greek word for mutilation, colobus. And colobus monkeys have four fingers, they're missing a thumb.
• 55:22
  Julian Hoad: Now, if hundred or so years ago, colobus monkeys were called colobus monkeys, because they were thought to be mutilated, because they lost their thumbs, then how back then could be acceptable to
• 55:22
  Julian Hoad: mutilate dogs and cats.
• 55:38
  Julian Hoad: There's this complete disconnect between what's fair and right for our pet animals. And the Americans are just getting it I think, hopefully, they're just getting it they haven't quite got human
• 55:38
  Julian Hoad: rights or BLM yet.
• 55:51
  Julian Hoad: But the just about getting that perhaps dogs and cats can feel some pain.
• 55:57
  Carl Gorman: The law here was, I don't know what it is at the moment, but the law was that you could do surgical procedures to kittens and puppies before their eyes opened without the use of
• 55:57
  Carl Gorman: anaesthetic,
• 56:08
  Carl Gorman: hence, tail docking and Duplaw removing without the need for any anaesthetic or pain relief.
• 56:19
  Carl Gorman: Which, I mean, I don't know why anybody thought that just because the eyes were closed, they couldn't feel any pain.
• 56:25
  Julian Hoad: Absolutely.
• 56:26
  Julian Hoad: Yeah. It's because they can't see what's happening, what's going on out there.
• 56:30
  Julian Hoad: 'Oh, my god, you're taking it off'
• 56:34
  Carl Gorman: Well, you don't need to waste anaesthetics on blind people, because?
• 56:37
  Carl Gorman: Presumably not, maybe some any blind people listening to this could write in and tell us do they feel pain? Don't write in
• 56:47
  Mike Brampton: Don't write in, I think we know the answer to that one.
• 57:01
  Carl Gorman: How do you manage with, because we, well, not me, I haven't dealt with any so far, but our, two of my colleagues have been very good and seeing our deaf clients,
• 57:14
  Carl Gorman: and they've been thoughtful, and I've put visors on because obviously, the lip reading and the facial expressions are so important to deaf people.
• 57:23
  Julian Hoad: They are, it is interesting. I had a deaf person and the other day, and my wife is a brilliant signer.
• 57:31
  Julian Hoad: So she she learned sign language because before we met, she had some deaf friends, well, she's still has deaf friends.
• 57:40
  Julian Hoad: You can't have those anymore. We're married now.
• 57:42
  Julian Hoad: Prior to us getting together, and her having some deaf friends, she learnt how to sign. And so she taught me a little bit.
• 57:52
  Julian Hoad: And, and so I have a few deaf people who come and see me and you're absolutely right. But they really struggle.
• 58:01
  Julian Hoad: So I have this plastic visor. And I take the mask off behind the other plastic screen anyway. But I'll sign and, and talk. And they get by.
• 58:15
  Julian Hoad: But they've said to me, they're really really struggling at the moment. One of them. The only place that she's been since locked down is to the vets, because she's terrified to go anywhere else.
• 58:28
  Julian Hoad: Precisely because no one's going to understand and no one's going to know that she's deaf.
• 58:33
  Carl Gorman: Yeah.
• 58:34
  Julian Hoad: And she's afraid that she'll be ridiculed or outcast or just have a really bad experience of it. So, terrible thing.
• 58:46
  Carl Gorman: Yes.
• 58:47
  Mike Brampton: What's what's been your experience Carl?
• 58:52
  Carl Gorman: Well, actually, one thing that we're part of CVS, I've been for a few years now and actually CVS had a very, very good initiative, which is to sign up to the sign video initiative, which
• 58:52
  Carl Gorman: is where a deaf person
• 59:10
  Carl Gorman: can on the on a mobile device, get in contact with a signer.
• 59:14
  Mike Brampton: Right
• 59:15
  Carl Gorman: Who acts as the translator. So the deaf person will sign to the translator who will speak to vet and visa versa, and they can do it at home as well so that the translator can phone us up
• 59:15
  Carl Gorman: and make appointments or explain symptoms or whatever.
• 59:30
  Carl Gorman: That's that's a really good service actually
• 59:32
  Julian Hoad: Really good. I hadn't heard of that.
• 59:34
  Mike Brampton: So what's that? What's that called?
• 59:36
  Carl Gorman: Sign video
• 59:37
  Mike Brampton: Sign video. Right? Okay.
• 59:39
  Carl Gorman: Very good. Yeah, I'm very impressed. It was actually sort of launched at one of our conferences by the deaf
• 59:49
  Carl Gorman: Shes a patient care assistant at one of the practices and she gave a marvellous talk about how she works, how she copes with what she has to do and how she has to explain to, to the deaf clients a lot
• 59:49
  Carl Gorman: of the instructions which we take for granted.
• 1:00:12
  Carl Gorman: Even things that we sort of write down, because sign language has a different grammar to spoken language, sometimes, you know, what would seem to be a clear instruction from us actually is not
• 1:00:12
  Carl Gorman: actually grasped all that well by the by the deaf person.
• 1:00:29
  Carl Gorman: And things I hadn't even considered, but she was inspirational. I have to say, fantastic.
• 1:00:36
  Mike Brampton: If I could take a couple of seconds here. Let me, I'm just gonna quickly share my screen here, Carl.
• 1:00:43
  Mike Brampton: And I'm hoping that I get this right.
• 1:00:46
  Mike Brampton: I'm not being that good at it over the
• 1:00:49
  Carl Gorman: absolutely
• 1:00:50
  Mike Brampton: So is this what you're actually talking about?
• 1:00:52
  Carl Gorman: It is yes.
• 1:00:55
  Mike Brampton: sign video. So that's signvideo.co.uk, which is need to pre book an online interpreter, so anybody can use this service then?
• 1:01:08
  Carl Gorman: Yes, I believe so. Yeah.
• 1:01:11
  Carl Gorman: I'm not sure. I don't know if there's a cost involved. If there is I know that sort of CVS have signed up for it. But I think for deaf people, it's a free service.
• 1:01:23
  Mike Brampton: Download our app now. No need for an account. Just click and call.
• 1:01:27
  Carl Gorman: There we go.
• 1:01:28
  Mike Brampton: Wow.
• 1:01:30
  Julian Hoad: That's excellent.
• 1:01:31
  Mike Brampton: That's a superb service.
• 1:01:34
  Mike Brampton: Guys, guys. It's been an amazing evening. I've had a great time tonight.
• 1:01:39
  Mike Brampton: I hope you have as well Carl, and I hope all that our listeners have.
• 1:01:44
  Mike Brampton: Normally about this time of the evening we well, I feel quite bad about this because you normally do a weekly joke on Facebook don't you Carl?
• 1:01:55
  Carl Gorman: I do I do
• 1:01:56
  Mike Brampton: A dad joke. But on this show. This is the Julian and Mike show.
• 1:02:03
  Mike Brampton: And so normally, Julian would do the joke.
• 1:02:08
  Julian Hoad: I don't I don't mind. I got a joke, but I don't mind Carl doing one.
• 1:02:11
  Mike Brampton: Have you got a joke Carl?
• 1:02:13
  Carl Gorman: Well, I had my last one that was on there, I suppose which was that
• 1:02:19
  Carl Gorman: Quite topical. Because we we now have a Bee Veterinary Society.
• 1:02:22
  Carl Gorman: And it's been a wonderful summer for the for the bees.
• 1:02:27
  Carl Gorman: The flowers, I don't know if you've noticed, but the flowers have been fantastic this year. And I've seen more bees than ever.
• 1:02:33
  Carl Gorman: But the problem is they've been doing too well.
• 1:02:36
  Carl Gorman: They've been feeding so much on all this pollen, that they've been finding it very, very hard to sort of fly and to fit back into their little sort of cells in the hives.
• 1:02:47
  Carl Gorman: It's been a bit of a bit of an obesity crisis. I'm afraid.
• 1:02:58
  Mike Brampton: Brilliant. Brilliant.
• 1:03:00
  Mike Brampton: I thought you were bad Julian.
• 1:03:05
  Mike Brampton: Oh, I get it. Hang on.
• 1:03:08
  Mike Brampton: Oh-bee-city.
• 1:03:09
  Mike Brampton: Alright, okay, sorry. It's me, Carl. It's me. It's me mate, it's not it's not your joke.
• 1:03:14
  Mike Brampton: No, no, it's me. I'll have another gin.
• 1:03:17
  Julian Hoad: I loved it. I loved it.
• 1:03:18
  Julian Hoad: I struggle to think of a good, I always try and link a joke in with what we're going to be talking about.
• 1:03:26
  Julian Hoad: I thought well, let's think of Malaysia because I went to Malaysia on my honeymoon.
• 1:03:29
  Julian Hoad: And one of the one of the best things that we did, I'll rephrase that, one of the loveliest sights that we saw there was in the Taman Negara, the National Park.
• 1:03:42
  Julian Hoad: We went to the Gua Telingga, I've probably got the pronunciation completely wrong but its the Batcave. And it was it was quite incredible before Coronavirus, so you wouldn't have the faintest risk of
• 1:03:55
  Mike Brampton: Na na na, na, na, na, na.
• 1:03:57
  Julian Hoad: Wonderful!
• 1:03:59
  Julian Hoad: Walking through or crawling through this this cave full of bats.
• 1:04:03
  Julian Hoad: And so I thought well, lets do a bat joke.
• 1:04:06
  Julian Hoad: And we move from Malaysia to Transylvania where Sister Mary Damien and sister Patrick are driving along.
• 1:04:14
  Julian Hoad: And this vampire bat, jumps onto the car and starts using his teeth knawing through the windscreen to get to them.
• 1:04:22
  Julian Hoad: And Sister Sister Mary Damien said 'oh for heaven's sakes, Sister Patrick, it's a vampire bat. What are we going to do? What are we going to do?'
• 1:04:28
  Julian Hoad: And Sister Patrick says 'It's alright, don't worry Sister Mary Damien I've got it all in hand' She puts her windscreen wipers on. knocks the bat off.
• 1:04:38
  Julian Hoad: 'Oh, thank goodness for that.'
• 1:04:39
  Julian Hoad: The bat comes back, grabs hold of this windscreen wiper with his little claws, pulls it back, snaps it away and starts grazing through the windscreen again.
• 1:04:53
  Julian Hoad: And 'oh, Sister Patrick. Oh, goodness' 'Don't,Don't worry. Sister Mary Damien, I've got it all under control.' She puts her windscreen wash on,
• 1:05:01
  Julian Hoad: 'I put holy water in the windscreen wash.'
• 1:05:04
  Julian Hoad: Gives a little squirt and steam comes off this vampire bat, he's really peed off by this, he's starting to smoulder a bit.
• 1:05:11
  Julian Hoad: Eventually the windscreen wash runs out and the bat shakes his little furry body and starts burrowing away through windscreen again,
• 1:05:19
  Julian Hoad: 'Oh for heavens sake, we're gonna be killed by this vampire bat, what are we going to do?'
• 1:05:23
  Julian Hoad: 'Don't worry, Sister Mary. Don't worry. Show him your cross.'
• 1:05:27
  Julian Hoad: 'Good idea, sister Patrick.'
• 1:05:28
  Julian Hoad: So she puts her head out out of the windows and says
• 1:05:30
  Julian Hoad: 'Will you bugger off you annoying little bat! You're really pissing me off now, you know.'
• 1:05:36
  Mike Brampton: And on that note,
• 1:05:37
  Julian Hoad: on that note,
• 1:05:38
  Mike Brampton: With tribute to that wonderful Irish comedian Dave Allen. I will thank you, in particular Carl, Carl Gorman for joining us today.
• 1:05:52
  Mike Brampton: Oh, shit. Sorry.
• 1:05:55
  Julian Hoad: We've got a CPD certificate.
• 1:06:03
  Mike Brampton: Oh, man.
• 1:06:06
  Julian Hoad: We have done CPD. So here we go.
• 1:06:07
  Mike Brampton: Well, we have done CPD, we've done lots of CPD.
• 1:06:10
  Mike Brampton: And in fact, there is a picture of the bat.
• 1:06:13
  Mike Brampton: We didn't do anything about tapirs tonight. Julian
• 1:06:16
  Julian Hoad: No but there's a Malaysian tapir.
• 1:06:18
  Mike Brampton: No, no, you just give it up with the tapirs will you
• 1:06:24
  Julian Hoad: and look you like laser surgery and I couldn't get any pictures of lasers.
• 1:06:28
  Carl Gorman: Fantastic.
• 1:06:29
  Julian Hoad: But there's a stormtrooper I think they use lasers. And look, there is a wild ginger plant or ginger flower in Malaysia.
• 1:06:39
  Carl Gorman: Wonderful.
• 1:06:40
  Julian Hoad: And it says Certificate of absolute awesomeness. This certifies that the humble viewer has learned a brain full today to take a day off. And it says me and him, veterinary ramblings.
• 1:06:55
  Mike Brampton: There we go.
• 1:06:56
  Mike Brampton: So you can present that to the RCVS and RCVS knowledge. To show that you have completed your X number of hours of CPD that that's worth an hour of CPD is it Julian?
• 1:07:08
  Julian Hoad: About an hour.
• 1:07:10
  Julian Hoad: But no, only worth it though, if we complete the regulations, the regulatory requirements are, of course to reflect on the knowledge. So,
• 1:07:20
  Mike Brampton: Have I had a holiday for two weeks or something?
• 1:07:23
  Julian Hoad: pretty much
• 1:07:24
  Mike Brampton: okay.
• 1:07:25
  Julian Hoad: Yeah.
• 1:07:25
  Mike Brampton: So okay, so so if everybody would kindly join us to reflect on our CPD from this evening. Okay, let's reflect
• 1:07:44
  Mike Brampton: I've got all out of sync with this whole thing. It's like I've had a two week holiday Julian except it's you that's been away.
• 1:07:51
  Julian Hoad: Yeah. All right. I went away. I went to Northumberland I learned a new language.
• 1:08:06
  Mike Brampton: Hang on a minute. I'm going to put my mask back on here.
• 1:08:15
  Julian Hoad: No, no, you're doing it again, hand signals.
• 1:08:18
  Julian Hoad: Okay, so for those people who were watching, or even listening, Mikes just foul really, honestly.
• 1:08:26
  Carl Gorman: Because he gave us the five minute countdown
• 1:08:28
  Mike Brampton: and a couple of gestures. Yeah. Two Minute countdown.
• 1:08:36
  Mike Brampton: And, and we've got to go.
• 1:08:42
  Julian Hoad: Playing banjo
• 1:08:45
  Mike Brampton: We've got to go listen, if you've if you've enjoyed the show.
• 1:08:49
  Mike Brampton: Thank you ever so much, as I say again, Carl, thank you so much for joining us.
• 1:08:53
  Mike Brampton: If you've enjoyed the show.
• 1:08:55
  Mike Brampton: Click Like Share.
• 1:08:56
  Mike Brampton: It's been a great evening.
• 1:08:58
  Mike Brampton: Thank you very much indeed.
• 1:09:00
  Mike Brampton: And as Julian did a wonderful Sister Mary Pirates, Patrick, whatever gesture to Dave Allen, one of our favourite comedians, May Your Dog Go With You.
• 1:09:12
  Julian Hoad: May your dog go with you.
• 1:09:14
  Mike Brampton: Thank you very much. Enjoy.
• 1:09:17
  Julian Hoad: Thanks. Thank you Carl.
• 1:09:20
  Mike Brampton: And Cut!
• 1:09:23
  Julian Hoad: It's a wrap. Well, there we go. Was that very painful?
• 1:09:27
  Mike Brampton: Did you enjoy yourself Carl?
• 1:09:29
  Carl Gorman: I did. It's good fun!
• 1:09:32
  Julian Hoad: If anyone every watches it, it's gonna be a mystery to me but, actually people are watching it and watching it all over the world.
• 1:09:43
  Julian Hoad: We actually had someone watch it in Malaysia. Was it a relation of yours?
• 1:09:49
  Carl Gorman: Probably
• 1:09:49
  Carl Gorman: I'll have to prewarn them
• 1:09:53
  Mike Brampton: What a great night.
• 1:09:54
  Carl Gorman: Yes, it's been great fun.
• 1:09:56
  Mike Brampton: Have you enjoyed yourself Carl?
• 1:09:57
  Carl Gorman: Definitely. Yes.
• 1:09:59
  Mike Brampton: Good.
• 1:10:00
  Julian Hoad: Thanks so much for coming on Carl.
• 1:10:03
  Mike Brampton: Really appreciate it.
• 1:10:04
  Mike Brampton: So you actually, have you watched any other episodes other than Georgie Hollis?
• 1:10:08
  Carl Gorman: I watched a bit of Phil because you've got to keep an eye on Phil.
• 1:10:12
  Mike Brampton: Well you're following in his footsteps aren't you? Yeah. Brilliant.
• 1:10:17
  Mike Brampton: So listen, thank you ever so much Carl. We really appreciate it.
• 1:10:20
  Carl Gorman: It's great. Thanks for the evening, its been good fun.
• 1:10:23
  Julian Hoad: Thanks a lot. See you soon Carl!
• 1:10:24
  Carl Gorman: Yes I will
• 1:10:25
  Mike Brampton: Take Care
• 1:10:26
  Carl Gorman: Cheers
• 1:10:27
  Mike Brampton: Bye.
• 1:10:32
  Mike Brampton: That was alright.
• 1:10:33
  Julian Hoad: I think it went well. Yeah.
• 1:10:36
  Julian Hoad: He's great isn't he.
• 1:10:38
  Julian Hoad: I was a bit in awe the first time I met him on one of the committee meetings, because I'd written a couple of books at the time, but my books were shit.
• 1:10:51
  Julian Hoad: He'd written a book that people read. Oh.
• 1:10:55
  Mike Brampton: He's written a book! He's written a book!
• 1:10:57
  Julian Hoad: So I was a bit afraid, I wouldn't speak to him for the first couple of meetings. But he's such a nice guy.