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Pharmacists Fight Back: Federal PBM Reform Advances | PBM Reform · Pharmacy Podcast Network

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Speaker 1: Doctor Ben Mudd, Executive director of the KPHA, the Kentucky
0:06
Speaker 1: Pharmacist Association, on the PBM Reform Podcast. You don't want
0:11
Speaker 1: to miss it.
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Speaker 2: You are listening to the Pharmacy Podcast Network. Welcome to
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Speaker 2: the PBM Reform Podcast, where we dive deep into the
0:44
Speaker 2: world of pharmaceutical benefit management, cutting through the noise to
0:48
Speaker 2: uncover the truth. Since twenty nineteen, we've been your go
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Speaker 2: to source for the latest on how PBMs impact patient care,
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Speaker 2: drug pricing, and the very future of pharmacy. Here we
1:01
Speaker 2: champion the role of pharmacists, the most knowledgeable advocates for
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Speaker 2: medication safety and expertise. Join us as we expose and
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Speaker 2: generate discussions that are reshaping healthcare and explore how we
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Speaker 2: build a better payment system which focuses on advancing pharmacy care.
1:24
Speaker 1: Hey, welcome back to the PBM Reform Podcast.
1:27
Speaker 3: The host is here today.
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Speaker 1: He's exhausted. He's been traveling through airports and train stations
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Speaker 1: and renting cars and riding camels to get to Washington, DC.
1:39
Speaker 1: With all of the incredible things that are happening, PBM
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Speaker 1: reform is really moving forward. Greg Ribold with APCI sponsorship
1:50
Speaker 1: of the PBM Reform podcast. You guys have been instrumental
1:54
Speaker 1: in building what is now the second most popular show
1:57
Speaker 1: on our network, and it's it's racing after this Week
2:01
Speaker 1: in Pharmacy, so you might beat it by the end
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Speaker 1: of the year. Greg, welcome back, Hey.
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Speaker 4: Bet, Thanks Todd, who's the host of This Week in Pharmacy.
2:09
Speaker 4: I got to watch out for that guy.
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Speaker 1: Me I am, but I don't ever want it to
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Speaker 1: be about me. I want it to be about pharmacists
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Speaker 1: doing things. And that's why when you text me less
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Speaker 1: than forty eight hours ago and said, hey, we got
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Speaker 1: doctor Ben Mudd coming on the show, I was freaking
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Speaker 1: out because I've been watching Ben for a while, his work,
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Speaker 1: his advocacy, his understanding, the fact that he is a
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Speaker 1: pharmacist and really has his fingers on the pulse in
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Speaker 1: the state of Kentucky. So with that, you take it away.
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Speaker 4: Greg, Yes, awesome, Thank you, Todd. Always good to see Ben.
2:48
Speaker 4: Thank you. You know, super short notice here. I'm lucky
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Speaker 4: that Ben's even still talking to me, right because you
2:54
Speaker 4: know how many like you know, you've come through on
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Speaker 4: like probably ten short notice requests in the last two
3:00
Speaker 4: weeks and have just been instrumental in so many things
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Speaker 4: that we've been working on. Thrilled to have you here,
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Speaker 4: Excited to have you here. We needed to have you
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Speaker 4: on anyway, but a huge week obviously in pharmacy. You know,
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Speaker 4: at the federal level for sixty six ten Pharmacists Fight
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Speaker 4: Back Act and you've played just an unbelievably central role
3:21
Speaker 4: in that.
3:22
Speaker 5: Want to talk about that, but.
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Speaker 4: That aside, there's so much I think that pharmacists in
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Speaker 4: this country and policymakers that listen to the.
3:29
Speaker 5: Podcast need to know about you.
3:32
Speaker 4: So welcome to the show, and I'd love to start
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Speaker 4: out with you just talking a little bit about your
3:36
Speaker 4: role in Kentucky and you know, some of the just
3:40
Speaker 4: unbelievable wins that Kentucky has had at the state level
3:45
Speaker 4: before we even get to sort of the really big
3:48
Speaker 4: week that we've had.
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Speaker 6: Yeah, well, first of all, thanks for the invite, short
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Speaker 6: notice or not. I'm honored to be here with you
3:56
Speaker 6: today to highlight, you know, some of the great account
4:00
Speaker 6: since that we've seen. And as you have mentioned, it's
4:03
Speaker 6: been a great week for pharmacy across the country and
4:07
Speaker 6: the momentum that that's been built at the federal level
4:11
Speaker 6: on on some PBM bills and a lot of a
4:14
Speaker 6: lot of you know, kudos to your work for really
4:19
Speaker 6: helping kind of steer the ship and getting getting some
4:22
Speaker 6: movement there. You know, you mentioned Kentucky and the work
4:26
Speaker 6: that we've done, and you know, we first of all
4:29
Speaker 6: always want to give credit to all of you.
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Speaker 3: There's so many people that.
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Speaker 6: That help along the way in Kentucky's blessed to have
4:36
Speaker 6: some really good, strong advocates in the independent pharmacy world.
4:41
Speaker 6: And you know, it really kind of started with we
4:45
Speaker 6: created a single PBM bill, which was Center Bill fifty.
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Speaker 6: That was in twenty twenty, so before I, you know,
4:51
Speaker 6: became executive director, I was still practicing pharmacy at the time,
4:57
Speaker 6: and you know, that was a huge rift for community
5:01
Speaker 6: pharmacy in Kentucky. We were pharmacies were really struggling in medicaid.
5:06
Speaker 6: We had six MCOs at the time. Reimbursement was all
5:10
Speaker 6: over the place. All of them were bad, some of
5:13
Speaker 6: them were worse than others, you know, and it took
5:18
Speaker 6: the leadership of Senator Max Wise, who now is the
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Speaker 6: Senate Majority floor leader in the Kentucky Senate, to champion
5:26
Speaker 6: that bill. And everybody was talking about how you know,
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Speaker 6: it's going to bankrupt the state, and all the negative
5:34
Speaker 6: things that we always hear, and he believed the pharmacists
5:40
Speaker 6: in Kentucky, the pharmacists back in his district. He saw
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Speaker 6: the abuses that were happening. We created the single PBM,
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Speaker 6: you know. Then they did a report that showed that
5:52
Speaker 6: it had some significant call savings for the state. So
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Speaker 6: fast forward to twenty twenty four, which took those same
6:00
Speaker 6: kind of principles of cost plus and put that into
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Speaker 6: Senate Bill one eighty eight, which was Commercial PBM Reform.
6:11
Speaker 6: And so that went into effect for independent community pharmacies
6:16
Speaker 6: in twenty twenty five, and it will go into effect
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Speaker 6: for all community pharmacies in twenty seven. Interestingly, you know,
6:24
Speaker 6: we want to highlight part of that bill. It was
6:28
Speaker 6: very comprehensive, but it did have the that act plus
6:31
Speaker 6: the dispensing fee. It required that the Department of Insurance
6:36
Speaker 6: do a cost to dispensing study. So it was ten
6:40
Speaker 6: sixty four the Medicaid rate. And we just got heard
6:45
Speaker 6: back from the Department of Insurance in the past week
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Speaker 6: that that rate, effective January one of twenty seven, will
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Speaker 6: go from ten sixty four to sixteen dollars and thirty
6:55
Speaker 6: one cents, which is what they factored as the average
6:59
Speaker 6: cost to this it's a prescription.
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Speaker 4: Wow, I mean that's big news. And you know, so many,
7:04
Speaker 4: so many states. You know, it's been the same dispensing
7:07
Speaker 4: fee forever, right, there haven't been these new surveys, so
7:11
Speaker 4: and you know that's something to me, it's always so interesting, right.
7:13
Speaker 4: But that didn't happen overnight, right you all you all
7:16
Speaker 4: got that in there. It took time. But here you
7:19
Speaker 4: are and and that that that significant. And it's also
7:23
Speaker 4: you know, just talking to independent pharmacists across the country
7:26
Speaker 4: for the last several years that that feels that number
7:29
Speaker 4: feels about right right in terms of like what are
7:31
Speaker 4: the actual sunken costs to dispense?
7:35
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know it.
7:38
Speaker 6: That only applies to commercial but you know, now that
7:41
Speaker 6: we have that data, I mean, I think it's it's
7:43
Speaker 6: worth exploring what that looks like in medicaid because to
7:47
Speaker 6: my knowledge, I don't think the TUCK has ever done
7:49
Speaker 6: a study in medicaid that I believe that was like
7:51
Speaker 6: a national average that they that they used. So but
7:55
Speaker 6: you know, it's provided some some relief for pharmacies. And
8:01
Speaker 6: you know, I think this is a good lead into
8:03
Speaker 6: sixty six on nine sixty sixty ten. It's the same model, right,
8:07
Speaker 6: it works for pharmacies, it works on the other side
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Speaker 6: to provide some transparency into what's being paid, you know,
8:16
Speaker 6: and I think you know you all really took that
8:20
Speaker 6: model of that Act plus and applied it to you know,
8:24
Speaker 6: the Pharmacists Fight Back Act. And I tell people all
8:28
Speaker 6: the time, pharmacists get this. They can read that piece
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Speaker 6: of legislation and understand how it's going to impact them,
8:35
Speaker 6: and it really motivates people to get involved and advocate
8:40
Speaker 6: because they can see what the impact is going to be.
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Speaker 3: They can they can feel that we've.
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Speaker 6: Done it now in medicaid and commercial so pharmacists, you know,
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Speaker 6: they understand that this is a fair and reasonable approach
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Speaker 6: to Medicare and our federal plans. So you know, it's
9:00
Speaker 6: not surprising the amount of people that called their legislators,
9:05
Speaker 6: called their congressmen and women to have a k for
9:08
Speaker 6: them to sponsor this field.
9:11
Speaker 5: Yeah, I absolutely agree.
9:15
Speaker 4: I want to talk about sixty sixty ten here, although
9:17
Speaker 4: I do, I just want to you know, you mentioned
9:19
Speaker 4: Max Wise and man right like I think you know,
9:23
Speaker 4: he's sort of a pedigreed, recognized, you know by the
9:26
Speaker 4: folks who are certainly in this business. Is one of
9:28
Speaker 4: the you know, the best legislators in terms of understanding,
9:32
Speaker 4: pushing back, you know, being just an amazing, amazing champion.
9:36
Speaker 4: I'm not I'm not a big believer in coincidences, right,
9:40
Speaker 4: and you know, from my perspective, you know, Kentucky's got
9:43
Speaker 4: got a lot of you know, there's a pattern here, right,
9:47
Speaker 4: you all have cultivated and worked with and are you know,
9:50
Speaker 4: blessed to have you know, Max Wise, who is you know,
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Speaker 4: one of the best in the country at the state level,
9:56
Speaker 4: but Kentucky has figured centrally into sixty six ten Pharmacist
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Speaker 4: really sixty six on nine and sixty six ten Pharmacists
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Speaker 4: Fight Back Act and even that the previous iteration because
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Speaker 4: Kentucky has also one of the biggest champions at the
10:14
Speaker 4: federal level, right is Chairman of Oversight Committee, James Comer,
10:19
Speaker 4: and he was absolutely instrumental in helping to build momentum
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Speaker 4: for pharmacists fight Back, recognition for pharmacists fight back, even
10:28
Speaker 4: credibility for pharmacists Fight Back Act at the federal level.
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Speaker 4: Having somebody like that, and so I just loved to
10:35
Speaker 4: and it was clear right you were up in you know,
10:37
Speaker 4: you came up to DC and December when the bill
10:40
Speaker 4: was reintroduced, and it was clear right, like, you've got
10:42
Speaker 4: a wonderful relationship with Chairman Comer and it was you know,
10:47
Speaker 4: even clearer this week when you were up there. So
10:51
Speaker 4: before we sort of get into the details of the bill,
10:53
Speaker 4: just sort of talk about your view of how you
10:56
Speaker 4: develop these relationships and is there a grit sauce to
11:00
Speaker 4: helping cultivate just some of the best pharmacy champions in
11:05
Speaker 4: the country, because you know, at the state level you've
11:07
Speaker 4: got it and and at the federal level you've got it.
11:10
Speaker 5: And I don't I don't think that that's a coincidence.
11:13
Speaker 6: Yeah, well, I mean some of it. Some of it is,
11:16
Speaker 6: you know, with right people, right time kind of thing.
11:20
Speaker 6: You know. Uh, Max Wise and I both live in
11:24
Speaker 6: the first Congressional District of Kentucky. So it helps that
11:27
Speaker 6: the congressman is is my congressman. You know, I'm a constituent, uh,
11:32
Speaker 6: and he represents the far western part of Kentucky. But
11:35
Speaker 6: the district kind of loops trying it comes back up
11:37
Speaker 6: to Frankfurt. So I've you know, I remember attending the
11:43
Speaker 6: NCPA flying when I was a practicing pharmacist, uh, my
11:47
Speaker 6: first year working for Medica Pharmacy, and uh, the comber
11:53
Speaker 6: had just got it elected and he was brand new
11:57
Speaker 6: and had none he knew nothing about PBM, you know, Uh,
12:00
Speaker 6: he had some close friends that were pharmacists. And but
12:06
Speaker 6: you know, it's it's taken you know, probably a decade
12:10
Speaker 6: of advocating for uh, for these changes and just education
12:15
Speaker 6: and staying in touch with his office, and you know,
12:18
Speaker 6: we're blessed to have him be there that long. But
12:22
Speaker 6: he's also maintained his staff, like you see so much
12:26
Speaker 6: turnover in congressional offices, and you know, he's got some
12:31
Speaker 6: incredible staff members that have remained on his team the
12:34
Speaker 6: entire time or for the majority of it. And the
12:37
Speaker 6: same with the oversight staff, like we've had, we've had
12:40
Speaker 6: some tenure there where we've been able to build those
12:42
Speaker 6: relationships when oftentimes you don't get that.
12:45
Speaker 3: I mean, you know, people leave offices and.
12:47
Speaker 6: Then you start from the ground up and try to
12:50
Speaker 6: start building those relationships. So it has been you know,
12:55
Speaker 6: we've been lucky, blessed in that way to have this
12:59
Speaker 6: much time to work on these things, and it does
13:02
Speaker 6: just take time and then you know, it all kind
13:05
Speaker 6: of comes together at a point here where we've got
13:09
Speaker 6: the momentum. We've done some work at the state level,
13:12
Speaker 6: which you see so often, you know, things have to
13:16
Speaker 6: work at the state level, and then they kind of
13:17
Speaker 6: work their way to DC. And we've just been fortunate
13:21
Speaker 6: to have those relationships. But his pharmacy owners are you know,
13:29
Speaker 6: he's got some great advocates in his district. I don't know,
13:34
Speaker 6: i'd be interested to look across all congressional districts. I
13:37
Speaker 6: would say he probably has you know, top ten most
13:41
Speaker 6: independent pharmacies in one congressional district. And that helps, right,
13:46
Speaker 6: because he's got one in most of his counties that
13:50
Speaker 6: he takes time to meet with and understand what they're facing.
13:54
Speaker 4: Yeah, and you know, I'm glad you mentioned his staff
13:58
Speaker 4: because you know, staff certainly up on held you know,
14:01
Speaker 4: maybe doesn't get talked about a lot, but so often
14:05
Speaker 4: you know, you meet with and I feel like you
14:07
Speaker 4: mentioned the NCPA fly in, right, and I think that's like,
14:11
Speaker 4: you know, such such a great initiation for pharmacists to
14:14
Speaker 4: partake and you know, sort of get involved in the
14:17
Speaker 4: federal process.
14:19
Speaker 5: But when you look at over the years.
14:21
Speaker 4: I remember, you know, at some of these fly ins
14:23
Speaker 4: in twenty fifteen, twenty sixteen, and you go up there,
14:26
Speaker 4: nobody knew what PBMs were.
14:27
Speaker 5: Right Now you go up and people are like, oh,
14:30
Speaker 5: pbs right. They they at least it's on their radar.
14:33
Speaker 4: And I think that's obviously credit to all the work
14:35
Speaker 4: that pharmacists have done going up to these fly ins
14:38
Speaker 4: for years, you know, along with NCPA. You know, everybody
14:41
Speaker 4: knows hey, PBMs right, and there's problems there and there's work.
14:44
Speaker 5: To do there.
14:45
Speaker 4: But something that truly stands out to me with Comer's
14:48
Speaker 4: staff and I'm going to say with his with his
14:50
Speaker 4: congressional staff and his office, but also oversight staff, right
14:54
Speaker 4: because he is the chairman of the Oversight Committee, and
14:58
Speaker 4: his staff members have so such a such a unique
15:01
Speaker 4: knowledge of PBMs and PBM practices that it absolutely stands out.
15:06
Speaker 4: And that's like, that's that's not a coincidence, right. I
15:09
Speaker 4: think that's also you know, a byproduct of and like
15:13
Speaker 4: you said, this doesn't happen overnight, right, it's years and
15:16
Speaker 4: years and years of I'm sure like working with that
15:19
Speaker 4: office and raising issues and Chairman Comer co lead of
15:23
Speaker 4: Pharmacists Fight Back Act.
15:25
Speaker 5: But you know, as chairman.
15:27
Speaker 4: Of Oversight, he's had some of the best PBM hearings
15:31
Speaker 4: that we've seen, I would argue in the country right,
15:33
Speaker 4: whether it's the state level or the federal level.
15:36
Speaker 5: I harkened back.
15:37
Speaker 4: The one that jumps out to me was like, I
15:38
Speaker 4: think it was June of twenty twenty four when he
15:41
Speaker 4: had the the you know, the execs of the PBMs
15:44
Speaker 4: there and yeah, like that was that was a hearing
15:47
Speaker 4: that was great.
15:48
Speaker 6: Yeah, and they you know, did the study and report
15:53
Speaker 6: that's been helpful.
15:54
Speaker 3: Yes, I mean he's been great and.
15:57
Speaker 6: And again so I'll go back to like all all
15:59
Speaker 6: the things kind of a collot.
16:01
Speaker 3: At once, you know.
16:02
Speaker 6: And we also have Chairman Guthrie from Kentucky over Energy
16:07
Speaker 6: and Commerce, which is you know, so you know, hopefully
16:11
Speaker 6: that's we can continue to work with him and try
16:14
Speaker 6: to get some movement on sixty six oh nine. But
16:18
Speaker 6: it all, it just it's kind of wild helps this
16:20
Speaker 6: particular matter has really Kentucky's been a focal point.
16:25
Speaker 4: Yeah, I know I've said this to you, right, I
16:28
Speaker 4: think it was probably in December, but it feels like
16:30
Speaker 4: all roads lead through Kentucky, right, and so for context
16:33
Speaker 4: you just mentioned it.
16:34
Speaker 5: But but you know, so out of Kentucky, you've got Chairman.
16:37
Speaker 4: Comer, who's over Oversight, which has jurisdiction of sixty six ten,
16:41
Speaker 4: which operates in the Federal Employee Health Benefits Plan, and
16:44
Speaker 4: then Energy and Commerce. The chairman of that committee is
16:48
Speaker 4: Chairman Guthrie, also out of Kentucky.
16:50
Speaker 5: And then that's where.
16:51
Speaker 4: Sixty six oh nine, which acts in Medicare and Medicaid.
16:54
Speaker 4: It's really that's something, isn't it.
16:57
Speaker 3: It's awesome.
16:57
Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean, John Vincent may disagree that all all
17:00
Speaker 6: things PBM come through Kentucky, but you know, maybe they.
17:03
Speaker 3: Head over to Arkansas for a day or two.
17:06
Speaker 6: But yeah, I mean, it's it's wild how it's kind
17:08
Speaker 6: of all come together. But you know, I think, you know,
17:12
Speaker 6: just honored to be able to help and it's been
17:15
Speaker 6: it's been a as a as an independent pharmacist.
17:19
Speaker 3: I can't you know, this is like a dream job,
17:21
Speaker 3: you know, to be able to go out and help.
17:24
Speaker 6: Really make some change for for all of our colleagues
17:27
Speaker 6: across the nation.
17:29
Speaker 3: So you know, I think.
17:33
Speaker 6: We probably need to kind of dive in on sixty
17:37
Speaker 6: six ten and how we what's it going to do
17:40
Speaker 6: and and how we got where we are today and
17:42
Speaker 6: what's our path forward?
17:44
Speaker 5: Yeah?
17:44
Speaker 4: Absolutely, And and so sixty six ten and six sixty
17:48
Speaker 4: nine were introduced in December, and there was a there's
17:52
Speaker 4: a press conference with the introduction and you you were there,
17:56
Speaker 4: right you you showed up and along with some other
17:58
Speaker 4: Kentucky pharmacists. And so you know, if you kind of
18:03
Speaker 4: love to start there, and you know why you showed
18:06
Speaker 4: and and one of the connections I'd like to make
18:08
Speaker 4: is you Kentucky has a track record of winning at
18:11
Speaker 4: the state level, and I think you know you very
18:14
Speaker 4: much brought that mentality to the federal level as well.
18:17
Speaker 3: Yeah.
18:18
Speaker 6: Well I think that was the coldest day uh last
18:21
Speaker 6: year in d C. It was brutally cold.
18:24
Speaker 5: Uh.
18:24
Speaker 6: And we had we had pharmacists from all across the
18:27
Speaker 6: country show up to to to show their support. And uh,
18:31
Speaker 6: that was the second one we had done. Right, there
18:33
Speaker 6: was the pharmacists fight back in the previous Congress, and
18:38
Speaker 6: and that was you know, that was well attended as well. Uh.
18:41
Speaker 6: And and that was like kind of the first time
18:44
Speaker 6: this this model really was out there, a cost plus
18:48
Speaker 6: model in legislation Uh, and didn't get a lot of
18:52
Speaker 6: traction in the last Congress, so reintroduced it this year,
18:57
Speaker 6: dividing you before it was like all federal.
18:59
Speaker 3: Programs, it's going to apply. And that's just you know,
19:03
Speaker 3: that was a that's a big lift. So kudos to you.
19:07
Speaker 6: Or whomever decided to kind of break this up into
19:09
Speaker 6: different bills.
19:11
Speaker 2: Uh.
19:12
Speaker 6: The sixty sixty ten is just focused on the federal
19:15
Speaker 6: employee Health Plan.
19:16
Speaker 4: Uh.
19:17
Speaker 6: And then sixty six O nine is same pharmacists fight back,
19:21
Speaker 6: but it applies to Medicare and Medicaid, I believe.
19:24
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's right, and that you know, we we haven't
19:26
Speaker 4: mentioned him yet, right, but the author of both bills
19:29
Speaker 4: and Congressman Auckin Class, and that was his you know,
19:32
Speaker 4: his his thought was, hey, let's let's break these up,
19:35
Speaker 4: you know, so that they're operating in separate committees. And boy,
19:38
Speaker 4: that you know, turned out to be a pretty pretty
19:41
Speaker 4: sharp precision, I think, brilliant.
19:43
Speaker 3: Yeah, and yeah, great, great call out there.
19:46
Speaker 6: Congressman Class has been a great champion for pharmacy too,
19:51
Speaker 6: and you know it shows by parts and support for
19:55
Speaker 6: sure and the vote on Wednesdays showed that as well.
20:00
Speaker 6: Forty to two with one Republican and one Democrat voting no, and.
20:06
Speaker 3: Shame on those people. But you know a ton about
20:10
Speaker 3: person support.
20:12
Speaker 6: And so go back to the previous Congress, like we
20:14
Speaker 6: had some momentum, but I think it was like people.
20:16
Speaker 4: Truth sponsors, right, that was not insignificant, you know. I
20:20
Speaker 4: think it was a good, good first showing, but it
20:22
Speaker 4: didn't have forward momentum beyond that.
20:25
Speaker 6: Yeah, and so you know, it's just like the slow momentum,
20:30
Speaker 6: the slow build of people understanding what it's going to
20:33
Speaker 6: do and getting more support from our national pharmacy associations
20:38
Speaker 6: to come on board and show their support. But again,
20:42
Speaker 6: like as more states have moved either in medicaid or
20:46
Speaker 6: we now have some other states that have this similar
20:49
Speaker 6: model and commercial and people see the real impact on
20:52
Speaker 6: their pharmacy and what they're able to provide for their communities,
20:58
Speaker 6: then they now understand this is this is the path forward,
21:01
Speaker 6: and that's you know we've been able to get that support. So,
21:05
Speaker 6: you know, kudos to you again, Greg, I mean again,
21:11
Speaker 6: and it's so hard to say that thanks to you,
21:13
Speaker 6: but I like so many people have helped with this,
21:15
Speaker 6: but you are really kind of been the focal point
21:18
Speaker 6: of keeping keeping everybody on the same page, I feel like,
21:21
Speaker 6: and uh, countless days and nights in d C to
21:26
Speaker 6: help on this. But you know, it's just been slowly
21:30
Speaker 6: over time kind of building up. And then what maybe
21:33
Speaker 6: a couple of months ago really started the process of
21:37
Speaker 6: finalizing what became the substitute the other nearing the committee
21:42
Speaker 6: the other day.
21:43
Speaker 3: Uh. And you know, we were again fortunate that.
21:48
Speaker 6: There were a lot of different stakeholders that came and
21:51
Speaker 6: asked for some significant changes that you knew would be
21:56
Speaker 6: harmful to the view and lessen its impact, and we
22:00
Speaker 6: really just were able to kind of hold the line
22:02
Speaker 6: and still get out.
22:04
Speaker 3: Of there with the really really strong deal.
22:07
Speaker 6: I think probably the biggest concession we had to make was,
22:11
Speaker 6: you know, it doesn't go into effect for two years
22:13
Speaker 6: versus one, and we would in like it to be
22:17
Speaker 6: a media right, but but sometimes you as you you know,
22:21
Speaker 6: we don't always get everything we want. But the bill
22:23
Speaker 6: stated by far mart intact from from its original version.
22:28
Speaker 5: It did.
22:29
Speaker 4: And one one I think interesting way that that that
22:33
Speaker 4: I think a lot of pharmacists noticed and we're excited,
22:35
Speaker 4: is in one way it actually got stronger, right, and
22:37
Speaker 4: we can talk a little bit about the process. But
22:39
Speaker 4: it went from I think a ten thousand dollars fine
22:42
Speaker 4: pro violation to PBMs.
22:44
Speaker 5: To what was it?
22:45
Speaker 3: Was it one million dollars?
22:47
Speaker 4: Yeah, so obviously, you know, massive, massive bump up and
22:50
Speaker 4: find amount, which I know I was certainly happy to see.
22:54
Speaker 4: But I'm so glad you mentioned right because again kudos
22:58
Speaker 4: to Chairman Comer and his whole team, because there was
23:01
Speaker 4: there were a lot of interests that wanted to significantly
23:04
Speaker 4: weaken this bill, and there were provisions that were proposed
23:07
Speaker 4: and many ways would have gutted the bill. Here's to
23:10
Speaker 4: me what I think is so important. Relationships matter, and
23:14
Speaker 4: I think we've talked about that, right like how you
23:16
Speaker 4: know it takes time and engagement, and obviously Kentucky, I
23:20
Speaker 4: think is is very much a model for the rest
23:23
Speaker 4: of the country on how relationships matter at the state level.
23:27
Speaker 4: But there's no magic at the federal level, right Like
23:29
Speaker 4: relationships matter there too. I think for some people federal
23:32
Speaker 4: seems so esoteric, and so many pharmacists are comfortable engaging
23:36
Speaker 4: with their you know, their state representatives, their state senators,
23:40
Speaker 4: but maybe at the federal level it seems more inaccessible.
23:43
Speaker 4: But I think Kentucky is a beautiful role model to
23:46
Speaker 4: show that it's the same concept.
23:48
Speaker 5: Right.
23:49
Speaker 4: It's these relationships and taking the time to invest in
23:52
Speaker 4: them that makes such a difference. But what you just
23:56
Speaker 4: said is something I've been so impressed with you about,
23:59
Speaker 4: as well as others in Kentucky too. But it's not
24:02
Speaker 4: just the relationships, but details matter, right, And and you
24:06
Speaker 4: know you played I think very much a material role
24:10
Speaker 4: in rolling up your sleeves when you didn't necessarily have to.
24:13
Speaker 4: You got to, you know, you got to state that
24:14
Speaker 4: you that you're worried about, but you rolled up your
24:17
Speaker 4: sleeves and you read through some you know, some of
24:19
Speaker 4: these proposed changes by whether it's agencies or industry interests,
24:25
Speaker 4: and you know, you you personally took the time to
24:27
Speaker 4: go through that bill with a fine tooth comb, right,
24:30
Speaker 4: And I was I was so impressed with that because
24:33
Speaker 4: you know, yes, relationships are part of the secret sauce,
24:37
Speaker 4: but it's also you know, it's also just doing the
24:39
Speaker 4: work and paying attention.
24:41
Speaker 5: And you know, as a you know obviously.
24:44
Speaker 4: Attorney for better or worse, right, but you know, details
24:47
Speaker 4: matter and words matter, and you know there are times
24:50
Speaker 4: where semi colon's matter and commas matter and I was
24:53
Speaker 4: I was just so impressed with the level of detail
24:56
Speaker 4: that that you brought to that aspect.
24:58
Speaker 6: To and and when you deal with the PBM legislation, Uh,
25:05
Speaker 6: you you have you're so suspicious of any change, you know,
25:09
Speaker 6: because you're right, man, one word can can take a
25:12
Speaker 6: twenty page bill and basically make it void and do nothing.
25:17
Speaker 6: And and you know our opposition they have teams of
25:24
Speaker 6: attorneys and uh that that look through things like well,
25:28
Speaker 6: can we just get this one little change and yeah,
25:32
Speaker 6: and that one all change just you know, canceled out
25:37
Speaker 6: five years worth of work. So you have to go
25:39
Speaker 6: through a page by page and I we were twenty
25:42
Speaker 6: plus pages on on on this draft.
25:46
Speaker 3: But you know it worked out. And that's the thing.
25:48
Speaker 3: You know, you make a good point.
25:49
Speaker 6: It's there's there's the politics side, the relationship side. But
25:53
Speaker 6: then you've got to have people that are good on
25:54
Speaker 6: the policy side looking at the at the actual words
25:57
Speaker 6: and how that's going to impact.
25:59
Speaker 3: And you've got to pull the two together because if
26:01
Speaker 3: you don't have both.
26:02
Speaker 6: Uh, then then you'll you'll lose your momentum. And you know,
26:07
Speaker 6: I think we're we're lucky here in Kentucky to have
26:09
Speaker 6: a really strong association and and always want to give
26:13
Speaker 6: my colleagues across the country a shout out for the
26:15
Speaker 6: work they're doing, because there's a lot of thankless work
26:18
Speaker 6: in in in the pharmacy association world and uh all
26:21
Speaker 6: you know.
26:22
Speaker 5: Tough business.
26:23
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, uh, you know, And and just encourage people.
26:26
Speaker 6: You know, it's even if you know your state's not
26:28
Speaker 6: done exactly what you want or you know you feel
26:30
Speaker 6: like there's no momental, you've got to get behind your
26:33
Speaker 6: state pharmacy associations and be a member, you know, if
26:37
Speaker 6: nothing else, just to.
26:38
Speaker 3: Show that support. Uh.
26:40
Speaker 6: But you know, we have KIPPO, the Independent Pharmacy Alliance
26:43
Speaker 6: here in Kentucky. Uh, they were a big part of
26:47
Speaker 6: of getting you know, everybody on the same page. And
26:51
Speaker 6: they are you know, Rosemary and her team room and
26:55
Speaker 6: Luther and her husband are incredible at really rare the troops.
27:00
Speaker 5: Yeah right, like yeah, he's in a.
27:03
Speaker 3: Call to action man, and they do that.
27:06
Speaker 6: So, you know, I think that just shows we all
27:09
Speaker 6: got to work together, from your state associations to national
27:14
Speaker 6: associations to the good folks a pc I, to all
27:19
Speaker 6: kind of get in the same same direction run in
27:21
Speaker 6: the same direction, and the pharmacy voice is very powerful.
27:26
Speaker 6: If we if we all speak the same you know,
27:29
Speaker 6: sing from the same book, and roll in the right direction,
27:33
Speaker 6: we can't have an impact. And I think that this
27:35
Speaker 6: bill has shown that, and that is one of the
27:38
Speaker 6: coolest things that I've experienced working on this particular matters,
27:42
Speaker 6: is how much everybody's getting behind this and that we've been.
27:46
Speaker 3: Able to be effective.
27:47
Speaker 5: Yeah.
27:48
Speaker 4: Yeah, And now I'm realizing, right, and you know my
27:52
Speaker 4: defense here, it has been a long week.
27:54
Speaker 5: I'm tired, but I'm realizing that I don't know that
27:55
Speaker 5: I ever even.
27:56
Speaker 4: Really set the stage for listeners to understand exactly what
28:00
Speaker 4: did transpire this week, right, And so I'll ask you
28:05
Speaker 4: to do that, right, because this was a big week
28:07
Speaker 4: for six HR sixty sixty ten, which is pharmacists fight
28:11
Speaker 4: back within the federal employee health benefits program.
28:13
Speaker 5: And this was a really big week.
28:15
Speaker 4: We were both up in DC for it, and I
28:18
Speaker 4: think you being there and like it helped make the day,
28:23
Speaker 4: you know, from my perspective, really so neat and special.
28:26
Speaker 5: So I'll always remember.
28:27
Speaker 4: But you know, if I'll look to you to sort
28:30
Speaker 4: of tell our listeners what exactly did transpire on the
28:33
Speaker 4: bill this week.
28:35
Speaker 6: Yeah, so they held a mark up in a state term.
28:41
Speaker 6: That would mean that we've essentially moved the bill out
28:43
Speaker 6: of the House committee. You know, there's four steps to
28:46
Speaker 6: pass and bill prior to it going to the governor
28:49
Speaker 6: in this case of president signature, you got to go
28:52
Speaker 6: through you know, a committee of jurisdiction. Then it's going
28:55
Speaker 6: to move on to the to the House floor, you
28:58
Speaker 6: move over to the Senate, and we know that you know,
29:01
Speaker 6: technically it may not pass in that way, but it's
29:03
Speaker 6: got to make it through the committee of jurisdiction before
29:06
Speaker 6: it could be considered in a larger package or right
29:09
Speaker 6: as a standalone bill.
29:11
Speaker 4: It's a massive, right, it's a massive step for it
29:14
Speaker 4: to be to ship right flexibility wise. It now puts
29:17
Speaker 4: it in a position where there are moves to potentially.
29:20
Speaker 6: Make exactly and you know, at the state level, at
29:24
Speaker 6: least in Kentucky, I'm sure states are different. You know,
29:27
Speaker 6: we just have a hearing and it goes through a
29:29
Speaker 6: committee meeting and it's like a one step process and
29:33
Speaker 6: you talk about the bill if there's amendments, and then
29:37
Speaker 6: they pass it out of committee. Well, this marked up
29:41
Speaker 6: phase of the legislation in DC is that equivalent.
29:45
Speaker 3: So they've held previous.
29:46
Speaker 6: Hearings on PBM orform in general, as you alluded to.
29:50
Speaker 6: I think they've had three just in oversight, but they
29:55
Speaker 6: weren't talking about necessarily a single bill, right, It was
29:58
Speaker 6: just like the issue of PBMs. Now this has been
30:02
Speaker 6: you know, had the blessing of the committee, it can
30:05
Speaker 6: move forward and now can be included in other legislation,
30:09
Speaker 6: and so it is a huge deal. I mean, you
30:13
Speaker 6: follow a federal policy probably more than I do, but
30:17
Speaker 6: we don't see that a lot. You know, there's just
30:20
Speaker 6: not a lot of bills to make it out of committee.
30:22
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's frankly.
30:25
Speaker 5: Very very rare.
30:26
Speaker 4: And you know, pharmacists right back at again, is you know,
30:28
Speaker 4: at the federal level, in terms of reimbursement, in terms
30:31
Speaker 4: of steering, in terms of ending the ability for PBMs
30:34
Speaker 4: to massively mark up medications at pharmacies that they own,
30:40
Speaker 4: enforcement prohibiting retroactive fees. It is this isn't just a
30:44
Speaker 4: piece of pharmacy legislation and patient legislation, but it is
30:47
Speaker 4: really the most comprehensive legislation to address those things you
30:51
Speaker 4: know that's been introduced and for it to move through
30:54
Speaker 4: the committee process is a massive deal. And I want
30:57
Speaker 4: to talk about, you know, something you're working on here.
31:00
Speaker 4: But you know a comment I got last week from
31:04
Speaker 4: a pharmacist and I understand sort of the frustration of this,
31:07
Speaker 4: but I hear it a lot, which is sort of like, hey,
31:10
Speaker 4: you know, like nobody nobody cares, right, And I hear
31:13
Speaker 4: that from time to time, and I think, you know,
31:16
Speaker 4: over even the last few weeks. And I don't want
31:18
Speaker 4: to talk about this specifically today, but you know, there
31:20
Speaker 4: was an Armed Services subcommittee meeting last week and Senator
31:24
Speaker 4: Warren is the ranking member, could have picked any issue
31:27
Speaker 4: within Armed Services within that jurisdiction to hold a committee
31:31
Speaker 4: hearing on anything, right, and she decided to hold it
31:35
Speaker 4: on you know, really express script practices in the Tricare
31:38
Speaker 4: pharmacy program. And she could have picked anything. And you know,
31:42
Speaker 4: Oversight Committee has massive jurisdiction, right, They touched so many things,
31:47
Speaker 4: and Chairman Comer, there are literally hundreds of interests in
31:53
Speaker 4: industries that would kill to have the chairman of Oversight
31:58
Speaker 4: be a champion, you know, of their issue or be
32:01
Speaker 4: a champion for their patients or their clients. Right, Chair
32:07
Speaker 4: you know, Chairman Comber of oversight massive jurisdiction, and he
32:11
Speaker 4: decided to co lead this bill, and not only to
32:15
Speaker 4: co lead this bill, right, but he he moved the
32:18
Speaker 4: largest piece of really PBM reform legislation that we've seen
32:22
Speaker 4: through the committee process.
32:23
Speaker 5: There is work to do, and.
32:24
Speaker 4: We can talk about that, there's massive work to do,
32:27
Speaker 4: but this this was a this was a milestone week
32:31
Speaker 4: for pharmacy. And you know, Chairman Comber, I think, you know,
32:34
Speaker 4: has time and time again has proven, you know, just
32:38
Speaker 4: just how important this issue is to him.
32:40
Speaker 5: But boy, that's a big deal.
32:42
Speaker 3: It is.
32:42
Speaker 6: It is, and I you know, I hope people understand that,
32:46
Speaker 6: and it is now to get where where we came
32:52
Speaker 6: from to where we are, uh, just all the pieces
32:56
Speaker 6: of the puzzle.
32:56
Speaker 3: It is.
32:57
Speaker 6: It is certainly a chess game and we're far from
33:00
Speaker 6: the end, but things are are moving forward. And it
33:05
Speaker 6: was a great week and what a time to be
33:07
Speaker 6: in d C, you know, uh uh. I talked about
33:11
Speaker 6: the first meeting we had with Combra when I was,
33:13
Speaker 6: you know, working as a practicing pharmacist, and I think
33:16
Speaker 6: that was my definitely my first trip to d C
33:19
Speaker 6: as a pharmacist, right, Yeah, And you know, the family
33:26
Speaker 6: that owned the pharmacy was adamant that you know, you
33:29
Speaker 6: had to be an advocate.
33:30
Speaker 3: You had to go up there.
33:32
Speaker 6: Uh to circle all the way back around to what
33:35
Speaker 6: we experienced this week. Uh.
33:38
Speaker 3: Man's that's that's great. You know, you to see.
33:41
Speaker 6: That in your professional life is really really it's a neat,
33:44
Speaker 6: neat opportunity to come full circle.
33:48
Speaker 3: So that's cool.
33:49
Speaker 5: Yeah, that that that that is neat.
33:51
Speaker 4: And we talked about obviously, the time that you spent,
33:54
Speaker 4: the level of detail that you spent working on, you know,
33:57
Speaker 4: looking at like potential amendments that other other you know
34:00
Speaker 4: parties had you know, had proposed. But you know, so
34:04
Speaker 4: much went into that hearing.
34:05
Speaker 5: Right.
34:05
Speaker 4: The hearing may have looked quick and in certain ways
34:08
Speaker 4: maybe not dramatic, but hours upon hours upon hours were
34:12
Speaker 4: spent by Chairman Comer and his team, right, and I'll
34:15
Speaker 4: say his his team within his congressional office, but also
34:19
Speaker 4: the oversight team. I mean, they invested a massive amount
34:23
Speaker 4: of time into this and it's because the issue is,
34:26
Speaker 4: you know, is important to the chairitan. So I think
34:28
Speaker 4: that's pretty easy. Yeah, I'd ask for any sort of
34:32
Speaker 4: any sort of final takeaways you have from the week.
34:35
Speaker 5: But after that, I'd.
34:36
Speaker 4: Love to pivot right because you know, we talked about
34:38
Speaker 4: sort of the culture of winning that you that you've
34:40
Speaker 4: been instrumental in bringing in Kentucky at the state level
34:43
Speaker 4: and then the federal level, and I just want to
34:45
Speaker 4: talk a little bit about you're you're in the midst
34:47
Speaker 4: of another you know, really really pretty neat thing, which
34:51
Speaker 4: is so I want to get to that too, But
34:54
Speaker 4: any any sort of parting thoughts on sort of the
34:56
Speaker 4: week and pharmacists, but back act and then after that
34:59
Speaker 4: talk talk to us about about what you got going
35:02
Speaker 4: uh at the state level personally.
35:04
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, I don't know where.
35:08
Speaker 6: I'm assuming that the final version that came out of
35:11
Speaker 6: committee is available online and maybe we can include that
35:15
Speaker 6: somewhere in a link for people to read it is
35:18
Speaker 6: it's a it's a lengthy bill, but people can understand
35:22
Speaker 6: it when you read it and you see the impact
35:24
Speaker 6: of what it encourage people to take a few minutes
35:26
Speaker 6: to read that and have a real firm understanding what's
35:29
Speaker 6: going to do.
35:29
Speaker 3: I think they'll like it.
35:32
Speaker 6: But but yeah, you know, I think you're alluding to
35:36
Speaker 6: the to my senate race. Yeah, catched up and the
35:40
Speaker 6: other the other thing I noted here I misspoke the
35:43
Speaker 6: penalty in the bill. I believe it's ten million dollars
35:47
Speaker 6: per per per time that they violate the terms.
35:53
Speaker 4: So so it went from what was a ten thousand
35:56
Speaker 4: violation to ten million provides that's correct.
35:58
Speaker 6: Yeah, and after after ten ten ten occurrences, they can
36:05
Speaker 6: be debarred from being the PBM for for the federal
36:09
Speaker 6: employee health plans.
36:10
Speaker 3: So that's a that's a big deal.
36:12
Speaker 5: You know. I love it. Right?
36:14
Speaker 4: Ten million fine, I think it caps out at one hundred.
36:17
Speaker 4: But then there's a puential imposition which is really important,
36:19
Speaker 4: which means it can all happen, you know, at once
36:22
Speaker 4: together and then ultimately debarmit.
36:26
Speaker 5: Yep.
36:26
Speaker 6: Yeah, so it's got some teeth to it, which is
36:29
Speaker 6: what you gotta have. But yeah, so it's this is
36:34
Speaker 6: so much fun. I've watched the likes of Max Wisee
36:37
Speaker 6: and James Carmon impact that they've had across many sectors
36:43
Speaker 6: and represent their their constituents. So my current senator decided
36:50
Speaker 6: he was going to retire, and a good friend of Brittany
36:52
Speaker 6: and Senator Jimmy Hinton, been in the legislature here in
36:56
Speaker 6: Kentucky for twenty four years, decided he was going to retire.
37:00
Speaker 2: Uh.
37:01
Speaker 6: And I decided last year in September that I'd run
37:06
Speaker 6: for Kentucky State Senate. So we had obviously an open seat. Uh,
37:12
Speaker 6: seven way primary and the Republican primary.
37:15
Speaker 5: And seven.
37:19
Speaker 3: Yeah, uh and uh. It was a it was a
37:24
Speaker 3: brutal last couple of weeks.
37:26
Speaker 6: I got got a little ugly there for for a bit,
37:28
Speaker 6: but we made it out alive and head on to
37:32
Speaker 6: November so that the November third will be the general election.
37:36
Speaker 6: Do have an opponent in that race as well, So.
37:40
Speaker 4: So you're in the midutes of a general election and
37:43
Speaker 4: and you know, you're you're you're running association, and you
37:46
Speaker 4: still somehow had the time or the will to to.
37:49
Speaker 5: To come to d C for for for a very
37:52
Speaker 5: very long day.
37:53
Speaker 6: Man.
37:53
Speaker 5: Yeah, thank you.
37:56
Speaker 6: And and and have the pharmacy. I always like to
37:59
Speaker 6: throw that out there. Very proud of that to have
38:02
Speaker 6: It's been a lifelong dream of town an independent pharmacy.
38:05
Speaker 6: And I have two great partners that have allowed me
38:07
Speaker 6: to be a part of that. So, you know, always
38:11
Speaker 6: always proud to throw that out there. And yeah, so
38:17
Speaker 6: you know, I thought we had it bad because we
38:19
Speaker 6: left Kentucky. I left my house at three o'clock am
38:22
Speaker 6: and we got back at midnight that night, one hour day.
38:27
Speaker 6: Until you hear your story of cancel flights and driving
38:30
Speaker 6: to d C from from Georgia.
38:33
Speaker 5: That was Rolf.
38:34
Speaker 4: And we haven't mentioned her, but you know, somebody on
38:36
Speaker 4: the APCI team who I love and what was amazing
38:39
Speaker 4: people I know is Kathy Hannah and Kathy, you know,
38:44
Speaker 4: so instrumental in all of this. And oh my god.
38:47
Speaker 4: So she she had to fly in from Kentucky to
38:50
Speaker 4: Atlanta to go to d C. And she got to
38:53
Speaker 4: Atlanta and and the flight was canceled the same night.
38:56
Speaker 4: I mean, she had just you know, it was like
38:58
Speaker 4: a saga for like like you know what Todd was saying,
39:01
Speaker 4: right like planes, trains and automobiles.
39:04
Speaker 5: And then she, you know, she finally got home.
39:06
Speaker 4: And she's in she's in Texas now, I think at
39:09
Speaker 4: the pharmacy convention. So she's her journeys for the week
39:12
Speaker 4: are still not over. So it was but we all,
39:15
Speaker 4: we all managed to we all managed to make it.
39:18
Speaker 4: Look you know, it's funny. I don't know that that
39:20
Speaker 4: this has come up a lot on a PBM Reform podcast,
39:22
Speaker 4: but you know when you look at at sort of
39:25
Speaker 4: some of the states and at the federal level, right,
39:27
Speaker 4: like having pharmacists, you know, in office is so important, right,
39:33
Speaker 4: And you know Georgia that you know, we we've in Georgia,
39:35
Speaker 4: it's we've been we currently have two pharmacists. There have
39:38
Speaker 4: been times where we've had four or five, and you
39:40
Speaker 4: know Tennessee and Alabama and like obviously at the federal level,
39:46
Speaker 4: to have you know, Congressman Buddy Carter and and and
39:50
Speaker 4: and harsh Barger like amazing, right because they get it,
39:53
Speaker 4: and colleagues trust them and when they have questions, some
39:57
Speaker 4: of the stuff is complicated, right, And to have a
39:59
Speaker 4: pharmacist in in you know, whether it's the state house
40:03
Speaker 4: or at the federal level, to have somebody who's an
40:05
Speaker 4: expert on drug pricing and who understands how these things
40:09
Speaker 4: impact patients, big deal.
40:14
Speaker 6: Yeah, well it it's not for the faint of heart,
40:19
Speaker 6: but definitely encourage people to consider.
40:22
Speaker 3: I mean it.
40:23
Speaker 6: You know, we pharmacists are really well positioned to help
40:28
Speaker 6: in legislatures across the country. Uh, you know, we not
40:32
Speaker 6: only on drug pricing but healthcare in general. Uh, there's
40:35
Speaker 6: just it is, it's it's policy heavy and and there's
40:42
Speaker 6: not a lot of no offense to our attorneys, a
40:46
Speaker 6: lot of attorneys in legislatures, but there's there's just it's
40:50
Speaker 6: and it's very difficult to you know, continue to practice
40:54
Speaker 6: and being a legislator, even a part time like Kentucky.
40:57
Speaker 6: Uh So it's a you know, it's definitely a sacrifice.
41:02
Speaker 6: But pharmacists have always stepped up to serve our communities.
41:06
Speaker 6: Uh And you go to these rural communities all across
41:09
Speaker 6: the country and they're on school boards, they're on city councils.
41:13
Speaker 6: You know, they they serve. But you know, and I'm
41:18
Speaker 6: always open to have a conversation with the colleague about
41:21
Speaker 6: you know, what it's like to run and what it's
41:25
Speaker 6: like to win come November and serve. But uh, just
41:29
Speaker 6: we would need more people to step up and and.
41:32
Speaker 3: And run and represent you know.
41:34
Speaker 6: Their communities, but but also serve as leaders for our profession.
41:39
Speaker 5: I agree.
41:39
Speaker 4: And if you boy, you know, when you look at
41:41
Speaker 4: it in the various states, and I don't I don't
41:43
Speaker 4: certainly don't track all of it, but so often over
41:45
Speaker 4: time pharmacists end up being in really influential positions.
41:48
Speaker 5: You know, whether whether it's federal or at the state.
41:51
Speaker 4: And again, I think it's a testament to you know,
41:53
Speaker 4: the integrity that pharmacists have, the role that they play
41:56
Speaker 4: in their community, the ability to understand the health implications
42:00
Speaker 4: the complex policy. So it's certainly something something I would encourage.
42:04
Speaker 4: And I think we've covered a lot of ground here.
42:06
Speaker 4: I think we definitely have to get you back maybe
42:08
Speaker 4: when things slow down for a little bit. Huh if
42:10
Speaker 4: pharmacists want to support you and what you're doing in
42:14
Speaker 4: this race, is there anything that that that they can
42:17
Speaker 4: do from afar?
42:18
Speaker 5: What what can they do to help you?
42:21
Speaker 3: Yeah, well I appreciate the call out there for sure,
42:24
Speaker 3: wasn't expected that.
42:25
Speaker 6: But yeah, we have an active website vote mud dot com,
42:30
Speaker 6: m U d D vote mud dot com, and you
42:34
Speaker 6: know you can go on there and you know there's
42:36
Speaker 6: there's a place to donate and learn more about the campaign.
42:39
Speaker 3: Uh, if if.
42:40
Speaker 6: You're close by, I want to come knock on some
42:42
Speaker 6: doors and we'll we'll we'll take all the help we
42:45
Speaker 6: can get with calls and whatnot. So definitely appreciate all
42:53
Speaker 6: that are beautiful family there and visit that and learn
42:58
Speaker 6: more about the campaign.
43:00
Speaker 3: Feel free to reach out anytime. Awesome.
43:03
Speaker 4: Well, you know, I would certainly encourage all our listeners
43:06
Speaker 4: to go check it out. And if they're so inclined,
43:09
Speaker 4: I always say, right, rising tide lifts all ships. You know,
43:12
Speaker 4: the work that has been done in Kentucky and and
43:14
Speaker 4: and Arkansas, and you know some of these other states
43:18
Speaker 4: have instructed and informed and raised, you know, pharmacy policy
43:22
Speaker 4: across the country. And you know, the work that you're
43:25
Speaker 4: doing is impacting states, it's impacting the federal level. And
43:29
Speaker 4: and and boy, I you know I think you obviously,
43:33
Speaker 4: you know quick become just an amazing, amazing leader in
43:36
Speaker 4: the in the in the in the Senate as well.
43:38
Speaker 4: So uh then you know anything else you want to say,
43:40
Speaker 4: but so so grateful for everything you're doing for pharmacy
43:43
Speaker 4: state level, federal level, and so excited about your race,
43:47
Speaker 4: and thank you for being on.
43:49
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, and thank you, thanks for the opportunity.
43:53
Speaker 6: I don't I don't want to go back and forth
43:55
Speaker 6: thanks straight say thank you too many times, but we
43:57
Speaker 6: all just got.
43:58
Speaker 3: To give credit to you. You've been great again.
44:00
Speaker 6: Keeping keeping everybody informed, keeping us together, kind of keeping that.
44:05
Speaker 3: One voice moving forward.
44:07
Speaker 6: Thank you for everything you've done, and uh, I had
44:11
Speaker 6: a happy student with you know, and with this story.
44:13
Speaker 6: A flight home, he was he was inquiring about your history.
44:17
Speaker 6: He was like, now it's Greg a pharmacist. And I'm like, no,
44:20
Speaker 6: you know, he works for a PC. I kind of
44:22
Speaker 6: explaining about and he's like, how do you how do
44:25
Speaker 6: you get this much passion.
44:26
Speaker 3: For pharmacy if you're not a pharmacist.
44:28
Speaker 6: And I'm like, I don't exactly know how, but you
44:31
Speaker 6: got it, man, Like you love this just as much
44:33
Speaker 6: as we do, and we are. We're so fortunate to
44:37
Speaker 6: have your your leadership and support of long the way.
44:41
Speaker 4: Well, I appreciate it, and I say this a lot,
44:43
Speaker 4: but I think it's a testament to pharmacists, right, And
44:46
Speaker 4: and you know, I think pharmacists are like and the
44:50
Speaker 4: work that you do inspires passion and in so many people.
44:54
Speaker 4: And I think that's why pharmacy has as many champions
44:57
Speaker 4: as it does in state houses and at the federal level.
45:00
Speaker 6: Right.
45:00
Speaker 4: I think it's you know, it's a testament to pharmacists
45:03
Speaker 4: and what you do and the care care you provide.
45:06
Speaker 4: So man, thank you for coming on. I promise you
45:08
Speaker 4: won't hear from me. I won't bother you for at
45:10
Speaker 4: least at least two weeks. I know you've had your film.
45:15
Speaker 1: Hey to shout out to all of our listeners, our pharmacist,
45:18
Speaker 1: pharmacy owners and pharmacy technicians, do not forget to reach
45:23
Speaker 1: out to your state representatives and invite them to your pharmacy.
45:26
Speaker 1: Educate them on what you're doing for your community. When
45:29
Speaker 1: you tell those stories, it's contextual. It starts to gel.
45:32
Speaker 1: They start to understand how impactful our pharmacies are to
45:37
Speaker 1: our communities into public health. A shout out to Greg
45:40
Speaker 1: and APCI. Thank you so much to the American Pharmacy
45:44
Speaker 1: Cooperative for sponsoring another episode of the PBM Reform podcast.
45:50
Speaker 1: And don't forget to take a look at vote mud
45:53
Speaker 1: mud d double d. That's vote mud dot com. Ben,
45:58
Speaker 1: thank you so much for being on the show.
46:00
Speaker 3: Thank you