Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Hear serial killer laugh, brag, describe how he “loved” the 93 women he murdered

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Hear serial killer laugh, brag, describe how he “loved” the 93 women he murdered · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:04
Speaker 1: Climb Stories with Nancy Grace James behind the Texas Rangers
0:11
Speaker 1: and a viewing Samuel Little at the Palmdale Prison Unit, California,
0:14
Speaker 1: GULD Corrections, Thursday May seventeen, twenty eighteen, at ten twenty
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Speaker 1: one am. When do you think is the first time
0:23
Speaker 1: you hadn't killing? Nineteen nineteen seven? Did you remember the
0:26
Speaker 1: first one? Years? Yeah? Cool, Nick, she has this happened?
0:35
Speaker 1: You know? So how long after the first one before
0:38
Speaker 1: you did the second one? About a month? They say,
0:43
Speaker 1: you're going pretty quick? Yeah? Did you kill her? What happened? Same?
0:48
Speaker 1: Same seeks? Damn kissing? I see what's to do? And
0:59
Speaker 1: what's up? Who? Oh dear Lord in heaven. The FBI
1:09
Speaker 1: now confirming that this man Samuel Little, the most prolific
1:18
Speaker 1: you as serial killer in history. We have just gotten
1:23
Speaker 1: our myths on spine chilling confessions and jailhouse sketches that
1:32
Speaker 1: Little draws off his victim. Can you just imagine all
1:37
Speaker 1: these families, the children of these women ninety three that
1:42
Speaker 1: we know of, the husbands, the boyfriends, the moms and dads. Oh,
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Speaker 1: dear Lord, they think that their daughter just left and
1:52
Speaker 1: never came back, just left them abandoned them. They never
1:57
Speaker 1: knew what happened to mommy. They never knew what happened
2:01
Speaker 1: to their daughter, their girlfriend, their lover, their fiancee. Oh,
2:07
Speaker 1: I'm Nancy Grace. This is crime Stories. Thank you for
2:10
Speaker 1: being with us, with me truly an all star panel
2:15
Speaker 1: medical examiner for the State of Florida, doctor Tim Gallagher,
2:19
Speaker 1: forensics expert, founder of Beer Bones Consulting, Karen Smith, former
2:24
Speaker 1: FBI special agent, host of Facebook watch series Curse of Acacor,
2:31
Speaker 1: Bobby Chicone, and renowned psychoanalyst out of Hollywood, Bethany Marshall.
2:41
Speaker 1: You know, first, I gotta go to levi page Crime
2:44
Speaker 1: online dot Com investigative journalists where you can read about
2:48
Speaker 1: this and all other breaking crime and justice needs. You
2:50
Speaker 1: know what, Levi. As much as I want to hear
2:52
Speaker 1: from you, I got to hear it from the horses mouth.
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Speaker 1: We have tapes of serial or Samuel Little listen in
3:04
Speaker 1: the nightclub in New Orleans. We walked outside it and
3:10
Speaker 1: she looked to see my car at Lincoln too. You
3:13
Speaker 1: know that's a beautiful car too, So she had arm
3:17
Speaker 1: in arm walk into the car. We got in, stopped
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Speaker 1: at the gas station. We went on the Highway ten
3:26
Speaker 1: and going towards slide. Ill seen the sign sitoods socause
3:32
Speaker 1: I took off the essen went and that short enough
3:37
Speaker 1: was the road leading into the woods, and we went
3:41
Speaker 1: in and park. So we finally got to where we
3:44
Speaker 1: were going into the by by the river, a little
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Speaker 1: water being in the big the d of machine out
3:53
Speaker 1: there in that little river, dragging dredged a crambled on
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Speaker 1: legs and pulled to the what you's the only one
4:03
Speaker 1: I pulled bowing describe the location where she's wife. Okay,
4:09
Speaker 1: I still award him on award in the thousands. Oh
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Speaker 1: dear lord. I know I keep saying, oh dear lord,
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Speaker 1: but just hearing him and hearing him laugh. Now, before
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Speaker 1: I had John David and Lucy the twins, I would
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Speaker 1: go very often with one of my best friend girls, Renee,
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Speaker 1: who sadly as a defense lawyer, but she and her
4:39
Speaker 1: whole very extensive Cajun family, we would go visit them.
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Speaker 1: Drive all the way from inter city Atlanta after court,
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Speaker 1: right there to the Slydale area. I know, I think
4:52
Speaker 1: exactly what he's talking about. Oh my Leavi page Crime
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Speaker 1: online dot Com investigative journalist. Did you hear him laughing? Yes?
5:01
Speaker 1: And he's talking about them very casually. He's laughing, he
5:05
Speaker 1: has a smile on his face. You would think that
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Speaker 1: he would be talking about a happy time in his life,
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Speaker 1: and the psychologist and the experts can talk about maybe
5:14
Speaker 1: this was a happy time in his life. But it's
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Speaker 1: extremely disturbing to listen to him confess to all of
5:21
Speaker 1: these murders. And we know that he's responsible confirmed for
5:25
Speaker 1: about fifty murders out of about ninety three that he
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Speaker 1: has confessed to, that making him the most prolific serial
5:32
Speaker 1: killer in the US, surpassing Gary Ridgeway, who was convicted
5:37
Speaker 1: of forty nine murders in the state of Washington. Believe
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Speaker 1: I pays. You're just a found of information, aren't you.
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Speaker 1: I mean I could have done without hearing about Ridgeway
5:46
Speaker 1: on top of Samuel Little, but you just had to
5:48
Speaker 1: do it. Well, actually leave, You're right, Bethany Marshall. I
5:52
Speaker 1: want to Jackie, if you don't mind, I want to
5:54
Speaker 1: go back and play that first sound we heard of
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Speaker 1: Samuel Little. Listen as he described to Texas Rangers how
6:04
Speaker 1: quote she wanted this to happen first? Yeah, she down,
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Speaker 1: What does this happen? You know? So how long after
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Speaker 1: the first one, before you did the second one about
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Speaker 1: a month. They said, you're going pretty quick. Yeah, did
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Speaker 1: you kill her? What happened, same same procedure. I kissed
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Speaker 1: him anything kiss I see what's to do and what
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Speaker 1: I could do To the second victim, he says, what
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Speaker 1: would you do if I choked to you? And he says,
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Speaker 1: she wanted this to happen. You know what, I usually
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Speaker 1: hear that in rape cases, Bethany Marshall, I don't usually
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Speaker 1: hear that in murder cases. Well. One of the things
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Speaker 1: we know about serial killers is that they have prolific
7:01
Speaker 1: fantasy lives. They infuse the memory of the crime as
7:06
Speaker 1: well as the crime itself with sexual excitement. That's one
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Speaker 1: of the ms of the crime is to choke look
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Speaker 1: at the victim's face to increase their sexual arousals. So
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Speaker 1: he's probably thought about these crimes so many times while
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Speaker 1: he's in jail. He's relived, he's changed their narrative. He
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Speaker 1: has all kinds of fantasies about what it meant to
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Speaker 1: the woman. So giving the interview not only is giving
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Speaker 1: the interview a form of reliving the crime because he's
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Speaker 1: enjoying talking about this, but He's changed the narrative again
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Speaker 1: and again to either minimize the severity of what he
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Speaker 1: did or to infuse it with more excitement, because you know,
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Speaker 1: all he's doing is sitting in jail with his fantasies.
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Speaker 1: That's all he has at this point. To doctor Tim Gallagher,
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Speaker 1: the medical examiner for the State al Florida, Doctor Gallagher,
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Speaker 1: did you hear what Bethany just said? I mean, just
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Speaker 1: the thought of him getting enjoyment as he watches the
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Speaker 1: victims strangle. What does a victim physically go through as
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Speaker 1: they are strangled? I mean, I can only assume they
8:12
Speaker 1: know what's happening. It's not like you get a blow
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Speaker 1: to the head, or your throat a slice, or you
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Speaker 1: take a bullet and you're gone. That's it immediate here.
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Speaker 1: You know what's happening to you. You know you're dying. Well,
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Speaker 1: that's true, Nancy. You know, being manually strangled is a
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Speaker 1: very protractive thing and could take as long as three minute.
8:30
Speaker 1: While you're being strangled, you then become consciously aware that
8:34
Speaker 1: you are now fighting for your life, and then every
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Speaker 1: ounce of strength you have you're going to direct it
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Speaker 1: toward the person who's attacking you, until Finally you run
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Speaker 1: out of strength, your body is deprived of oxygen, and
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Speaker 1: then you cannot fight any longer. You become unconscious, and
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Speaker 1: then after a while you suffer irreparable brain damage and
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Speaker 1: that leads directly to your death afterwards, as you are
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Speaker 1: being deprived of oxygen. What would someone experience? I'll give
9:02
Speaker 1: you a sugarcoated version. Do you remember the Alfred Hitchcock
9:07
Speaker 1: movie where Grace Kelly, the husband of course, is trying
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Speaker 1: to kill her blah blah blah, and she is being
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Speaker 1: strangled with a stocking and she is I want to
9:19
Speaker 1: say dial infra murder, But anyway, long story short, you
9:23
Speaker 1: see her struggling and fighting to live, and slowly the
9:27
Speaker 1: energy is emmy out of her. Having seen real strangulation victims,
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Speaker 1: manual or ligature strangulation victims, it's not as airbrushed as that,
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Speaker 1: But that scenario where at some point you can't fight anymore.
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Speaker 1: I've seen where people claw their face and their neck
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Speaker 1: deep gouges trying to get the ligature off their neck.
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Speaker 1: But what happens do you go? Does it start getting dark?
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Speaker 1: Do your lungs hurt? What happens? I know the particular
9:57
Speaker 1: in your eye burst. Blood vessels in your eye do
10:01
Speaker 1: burst and they form little hemorrhages that you can see
10:03
Speaker 1: on the white parts of your eye. But you know
10:06
Speaker 1: before that, you know, we've we've found flesh under the
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Speaker 1: fingernails of victims who were manually strangled, and it's it's
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Speaker 1: it's often their own flesh trying to get the hands
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Speaker 1: off of them, and it's quite often the flesh of
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Speaker 1: the sailor. You can get DNA from that and then identify,
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Speaker 1: you know, who was doing the strangulation. But typically as
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Speaker 1: your brain is deprived of oxygen, the first thing you
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Speaker 1: developed is a very focused tunnel vision and you are
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Speaker 1: looking directly at your attacker. And as the as the
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Speaker 1: peripheral vision starts to close off, you start to blackout,
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Speaker 1: and then you start to become unresponsive, and then after that,
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Speaker 1: death is soon to follow. Crime stories with Nancy Grace,
11:08
Speaker 1: tell me about Mary and it's the opportunity popped up.
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Speaker 1: Take her to the store, excuting me, bringing them back
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Speaker 1: to the other farming. I went got our tunity celer
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Speaker 1: sea that's going down to a for a lot of
11:24
Speaker 1: the called it gat the alligator Alli. It turns into
11:28
Speaker 1: it runs into alligated allig right, but further out to
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Speaker 1: get further to get out of Miami, and you got vegetation.
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Speaker 1: And I've seen a rule going off the main rule
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Speaker 1: back into vegetation on this left side. I got it
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Speaker 1: out of the car, pulled out and drugger into the
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Speaker 1: rules back there and pulled them deeper into the path
12:00
Speaker 1: a little badly somewhere. I don't know where it led
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Speaker 1: it too, but he running deeper into the undergroup. It's
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Speaker 1: like everglades like that. And he ran into some water running.
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Speaker 1: But before we got to the water, the earth was
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Speaker 1: much I tell loose, and she fell into it, face down.
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Speaker 1: And how far outside of Miami do you think you were?
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Speaker 1: About a mile? Two miles? What year did Marianne her
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Speaker 1: uh Shelby too, joining me from our special agent with
12:33
Speaker 1: the FBI. Host of Facebook watch series Curse of Aqacore,
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Speaker 1: Bobby Chickun Bobby, what do you make of that? Well,
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Speaker 1: you can hear him, you can hear a little talk
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Speaker 1: about the locations he was choosing right this road that
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Speaker 1: ran off into into the everglades. He knew that these
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Speaker 1: were places that he could that his predatory behavior would
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Speaker 1: would be successful because it was off the beaten track
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Speaker 1: that was maybe nobody around, and so you can hear
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Speaker 1: his conscious thought as a predator. This is the mind
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Speaker 1: of a predator, and this is the same thing that
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Speaker 1: goes with any predator that's stalking its prey. It's it's
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Speaker 1: it's judging the location, it's knowing when to strike, and
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Speaker 1: those those factors. And it's fascinating to hear this predator
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Speaker 1: go through that mental exercise because we know what happens,
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Speaker 1: but to hear him verbalize it that you know, he's
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Speaker 1: in his mind analyzing the scene as he's as happening.
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Speaker 1: He knows there's a potential victim there. He's seeing the
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Speaker 1: road that leads off into a isolated place, and you
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Speaker 1: can hear him talking very matter of factly, doing that
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Speaker 1: analysion in his head that that you know, we always
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Speaker 1: talk about a predator going through, but it's it's chilling
13:43
Speaker 1: when you can hear him, you know, literally articulate the
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Speaker 1: process that's going on in his brain and when he
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Speaker 1: sees a potential victim and he's analyzing whether he should strike.
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Speaker 1: We have obtained actual audio of the most prolific serial
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Speaker 1: killer in the US. We believe at least ninety three
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Speaker 1: women killed by him, usually the same m O, the
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Speaker 1: same modus operandi, method of operation. Are there more? Listen
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Speaker 1: to him in his own chilling words, Florida, Jordan and
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Speaker 1: who we are? He cooled down? Wow in the come
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Speaker 1: down and go to be called Coloria, go cross, come
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Speaker 1: back up? Do you need to go? I'm saying, is
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Speaker 1: how many in La Twain? I know the laws control
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Speaker 1: and always it was very tough in terms to keep
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Speaker 1: from getting busted, and I keep going so that it
14:54
Speaker 1: would be missed. No women nurses and to the teach time,
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Speaker 1: You're like white girls are black girls? Bare? And did
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Speaker 1: you hear that he doesn't want to be prejudiced? And
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Speaker 1: who which women he picks to kill with me? Doctor
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Speaker 1: Bethany Marshall, Bobby Jicon, Karen Smith, doctor Tim Gallagher, and
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Speaker 1: Levi Page Karen Smith, forensics expert, founder of Bare Bones Consulting.
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Speaker 1: So far, the FBI is saying that they have confirmed
15:31
Speaker 1: there were not mine confirmed fifty of his confessed ninety
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Speaker 1: three murders. How can they do that because some of
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Speaker 1: these murders date years back. They do. These date back
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Speaker 1: to nineteen sixty six. I believe was one of the
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Speaker 1: first ones. When he was starting to offend and do
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Speaker 1: armed robberies and things like that. So it's not that
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Speaker 1: we have DNA, it's not that we have the direct evidence.
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Speaker 1: But what's remarkable about Samuel Little, as vile as he is,
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Speaker 1: is his memory. This man has detailed these murders, the
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Speaker 1: location where he was, the timing, He described the clothing,
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Speaker 1: He described things that he got busted for when he
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Speaker 1: was there, shoplifting and other things that there are records of.
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Speaker 1: So they can go back, maybe talked to surviving family members,
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Speaker 1: describe these women, show them drawings that Samuel Little has done,
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Speaker 1: and make identifications that way. So it's not that they
16:31
Speaker 1: have the direct DNA or a fingerprint or anything like that.
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Speaker 1: What they have is the timeline, his descriptions, the information,
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Speaker 1: and they went from there to say that, yeah, they're
16:42
Speaker 1: confident that these fifty belong to Samuel Little. Right now,
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Speaker 1: the FBI desperately asking for your help to identify so
16:49
Speaker 1: many of the ninety three alleged victims of serial killer
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Speaker 1: Samuel Little, including one woman he murdered in Laurel Listen.
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Speaker 1: Samuel Little says he strangled ninety three people in nineteen
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Speaker 1: States between nineteen seventy and two thousand and five. The
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Speaker 1: seventy nine year old is in California serving multiple life
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Speaker 1: sentences and just recently began admitting to murders investigators believe
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Speaker 1: are credible. I could truly say Samuel Little is a
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Speaker 1: true monster. He's every woman ultimate nightmare. One of his
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Speaker 1: alleged murders happened in Laurel in nineteen seventy two. Little
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Speaker 1: admitted to picking up the victim's summer at a Washington,
17:28
Speaker 1: DC bus station. Later drove her to a wooded area
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Speaker 1: where Little said they had sex and he strangled her.
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Speaker 1: He described it when I interviewed him in a way
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Speaker 1: where he was actually excited about describing how he did.
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Speaker 1: He's this murder. A hunter found her body months later.
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Speaker 1: He described a victim and the way that the medical
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Speaker 1: examined to described their matched. Everything matched. Investigators gave Little
17:52
Speaker 1: supplies to draw his victims. When sixty Minutes got to
17:55
Speaker 1: look this weekend. There and the bottom left is a
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Speaker 1: Jane Doe from Prince George's County. A ficial. She'll say
18:00
Speaker 1: she was between twenty and twenty five years old and
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Speaker 1: possibly originally from Massachusetts. Little parade on vulnerable women across
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Speaker 1: the country, as he told CBS News by phone, don't
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Speaker 1: break another person. They did well, I'd like you to
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Speaker 1: do stop. They go only one in the world, and
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Speaker 1: that's not of honor. That is a curse. The FBI
18:19
Speaker 1: is now asking for help in matching confessions to victims,
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Speaker 1: including that Jane Doe found in Laurel forty seven years ago.
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Speaker 1: You're hearing our friends there at wjay Z. The FBI
18:30
Speaker 1: desperate to identify all of these women, remember their families.
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Speaker 1: Still many of them think Mommy just abandoned them, when
18:38
Speaker 1: in reality, this devil from hell stalked and murdered them.
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Speaker 1: To doctor Bethany Marshall joining us out of la Doctor Bethany,
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Speaker 1: did you hear what the FBI agent said? He said
18:51
Speaker 1: that Samuel Little gets excited in the retelling of the murders.
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Speaker 1: So sick Nancy. I think it's important for our listeners
19:01
Speaker 1: to understand the difference between a sociopath and a psychopath,
19:05
Speaker 1: a psychopath serial killer. The sociopath is they're parasitic, they
19:10
Speaker 1: lack the conscience, their line conning, manipulativeness. When you get
19:15
Speaker 1: to the point of psychopath, there's the addition of cruelty
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Speaker 1: in order to enhance their sexual pleasure. That is the difference.
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Speaker 1: So these serial killers and Samuel Little in particular, in
19:28
Speaker 1: order to get off sexually, he would prey on vulnerable women,
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Speaker 1: He would have sex with them, he would manually strangulate them,
19:36
Speaker 1: all for the purpose of sexual arousals. That is the
19:40
Speaker 1: m right there and again. Because he's sitting in jail
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Speaker 1: with nothing else to do but draw these pictures, which
19:47
Speaker 1: is probably like his jailhouse porn. He is excited and
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Speaker 1: the retelling of the story because that is all he has.
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Speaker 1: And Karen mentioned how he has this prolific memory for detail.
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Speaker 1: I mean he remembers the car he drove, the underbrush,
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Speaker 1: the size of a woman's sighs, what age she is.
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Speaker 1: This is a man who is so obsessed and preoccupied
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Speaker 1: with his history of killing that he relives at every
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Speaker 1: day and if he was in society, he would offend
20:20
Speaker 1: again and again. Crime stories with Nancy Grace, we are
20:40
Speaker 1: talking about Samuel Little, the most prolific u as serial
20:48
Speaker 1: killer in history. Take a listen as Samuel Little confesses
20:56
Speaker 1: to murdering as he says a quote girl in northern
21:00
Speaker 1: Kentucky after a music festival. We got to Covington, and
21:04
Speaker 1: then we continued through Covington and there was a park
21:11
Speaker 1: that they were having a festival there, and she heard
21:14
Speaker 1: the music and shot offered the band in there, and
21:18
Speaker 1: by her being a heavy type and the shell, he
21:21
Speaker 1: wanted to get to that. But the police came on
21:23
Speaker 1: and peeked into in a car room. You really wanted
21:27
Speaker 1: to be moved out of it. So we instid of
21:30
Speaker 1: going in there. I took her otherway around, winding around.
21:35
Speaker 1: They got hills out in Kentucky, and the road winds
21:38
Speaker 1: and around on the hills. I seen a little short
21:41
Speaker 1: road going oh the hill, and in the up top
21:46
Speaker 1: there was vegetation. What no island that? And so I
21:50
Speaker 1: pulled up in there and concealed with the car and
21:55
Speaker 1: in the little vegetation up there on top of hill.
21:58
Speaker 1: So tell me about this this road that goes up
22:01
Speaker 1: the hill. What kind of road is it? Was? It
22:04
Speaker 1: was like a dirt rule, Okay, was like dirt. The
22:09
Speaker 1: grass was drawing in the middle between two tracks. When
22:12
Speaker 1: I've left for up in there in that little road
22:15
Speaker 1: up there on the side of the road, as she
22:17
Speaker 1: would let partially conceal, but vegetation left for there you
22:23
Speaker 1: are hearing the description of a murder of a quote
22:26
Speaker 1: girl in northern Kentucky and that was listening to music
22:30
Speaker 1: at a music festival in a park. I don't get
22:33
Speaker 1: it to Bobby to count from a special agent with
22:36
Speaker 1: the FBI host a Facebook watch series Curse of Aqacre, Bobby,
22:41
Speaker 1: why such detail? Is he proud or you know what?
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Speaker 1: He doesn't. He lacks the empathy that we would normally say,
22:49
Speaker 1: oh my god, how can he do that? Right? Because
22:51
Speaker 1: you to recall it, So yes, in a way he
22:54
Speaker 1: is proud, But in a way, this is just another
22:58
Speaker 1: regular memory for him that you and I would recall
23:02
Speaker 1: a birthday party or an anniversary in the past, So
23:04
Speaker 1: it's not you know, he does have a remarkable memory,
23:08
Speaker 1: and he does get some satisfaction, although at his ages
23:12
Speaker 1: less than it was when he was younger, in recalling
23:15
Speaker 1: some of these crimes. But in this case, the Texas
23:18
Speaker 1: ranger he's talking to Holland developed such an incredible rapport
23:22
Speaker 1: with him that he's actually wanting to help the detective
23:26
Speaker 1: bring closure to some of the families, and that's what
23:28
Speaker 1: he's been doing. He's been completely cooperating with the interviews
23:31
Speaker 1: since the ranger. Holland established that relationship, and you hear
23:37
Speaker 1: him again talk about you know, this is a situation
23:40
Speaker 1: he just explained where the police came up to his
23:42
Speaker 1: car and shoot him away. He was parked somewhere with
23:44
Speaker 1: his next victim that he wasn't supposed to be and
23:46
Speaker 1: so they shoot him away and he just drove on
23:48
Speaker 1: now instead of letting her out of a car in
23:50
Speaker 1: a panic because the police just were there, he actually
23:53
Speaker 1: drove and he immediately started looking for hills and vegetation
23:57
Speaker 1: that as he said, conceal his car. This is a
24:00
Speaker 1: this is a predatory machine. He's going through the analysis
24:04
Speaker 1: right after leaving the police with the victim in his car,
24:06
Speaker 1: of looking for a place where he can carry out
24:09
Speaker 1: his crime. So it's really a fascinating look into the
24:12
Speaker 1: mind of a predator where he's just the police didn't
24:16
Speaker 1: even phase him. The police coming up to his car
24:18
Speaker 1: with the victim's car didn't even phase him, and he
24:20
Speaker 1: immediately started to analyze the surroundings on where he could
24:23
Speaker 1: carry out his attack. Bobby should come with a former
24:26
Speaker 1: FBI to doctor Tim Gallagher, medical examiner for the State
24:29
Speaker 1: of Florida. Doctor Gallagher, I was earlier asking Karen Smith
24:34
Speaker 1: with Beer Buns Consulting about how the FBI has been
24:37
Speaker 1: able to confirm at least fifty of these alleged ninety
24:41
Speaker 1: three murders. Doctor Gallagher, what type of bodily evidence would
24:46
Speaker 1: there be this much later, I mean years have passed.
24:50
Speaker 1: Can you go back to a body, even if after
24:53
Speaker 1: it's been buried, or can you observe tissue at the time.
24:57
Speaker 1: How can they connect him to many of these women? Well,
25:00
Speaker 1: there are several ways we can do it. Number one
25:01
Speaker 1: would be dental records. If they had any dental records
25:04
Speaker 1: that are still available, we could use those for identification,
25:07
Speaker 1: you know. And the other thing is familial DNA. You know,
25:10
Speaker 1: if there are any members of the family that are left,
25:12
Speaker 1: DNA can still be extracted from the bones of the
25:16
Speaker 1: victim or from the teeth of the victim, and that
25:18
Speaker 1: DNA could be analyzed familial, familial and or of the victim,
25:25
Speaker 1: which would give us a good presumptive identification. I know
25:28
Speaker 1: we can id the victim, and I'm trying to figure
25:30
Speaker 1: out how to connect him to our murder. I guess
25:34
Speaker 1: one way, Karen Smith Beer Bones Consulting would be as
25:39
Speaker 1: doctor Gallagher is saying to put his Samuel Little's DNA
25:44
Speaker 1: into the DNA databank CODUS and see how many women
25:50
Speaker 1: he connects two over the years, because obviously he raped, sodomize,
25:56
Speaker 1: or perform some other sex act on probably all of
25:59
Speaker 1: them during this triangulation, before, during, or after. But what
26:04
Speaker 1: other evidence could we look for beside DNA? Here in
26:08
Speaker 1: Smith right, there is part of CODUS, which is the
26:11
Speaker 1: combined DNA and X system. One of those parts is
26:13
Speaker 1: the forensic database that connects two or more crimes that
26:16
Speaker 1: are that are connected, and then they can go into
26:18
Speaker 1: the offender database and make a match that way, which
26:21
Speaker 1: is what they've been doing. But here's the thing. If
26:23
Speaker 1: it's been thirty forty years, Nancy, if you find any
26:27
Speaker 1: skeletal remains, you know you're you're going to be dealing
26:31
Speaker 1: with with dental records. You're going to be dealing with
26:33
Speaker 1: with DNA from bones and things like that. But the
26:37
Speaker 1: one thing that you may be able to find, if
26:39
Speaker 1: they're very lucky, are pieces of cloth and clothing that
26:43
Speaker 1: have not been dragged off, that have not decomposed of
26:46
Speaker 1: the point of being unable to identify that piece of clothing.
26:49
Speaker 1: Even if it's a scrap. He describes one victim as
26:52
Speaker 1: sparing a cream and red colored skirt, and if there's
26:56
Speaker 1: a small shard of that left, that may be able
26:59
Speaker 1: to also help identify the victim. So you're dealing with
27:03
Speaker 1: jewelry that doesn't go away, things like that ear rings,
27:07
Speaker 1: necklace's rings that may be able to be found at
27:10
Speaker 1: the location. If they're able to locate these bodies. How
27:13
Speaker 1: did Texas Ranger James Holland get this serial killer to confess?
27:19
Speaker 1: The ranger says, Little was a cunning killer, sized up
27:23
Speaker 1: his victims and his surroundings. The first thing I picked
27:26
Speaker 1: up on is how wicked smart he was. The sky smarke, Oh,
27:29
Speaker 1: like genius. How do you say that? Oh? Well, number one,
27:33
Speaker 1: you know the photographic memory, his memory for details, and
27:36
Speaker 1: you're like, Sammy, tell me what's around her. There's three
27:39
Speaker 1: tombstones over there, there's a Collechey road drive down a
27:42
Speaker 1: quarter mile. There's a white Baptist church that needs to
27:45
Speaker 1: be whitewashed. Phenomenal, So how do you reach a serial killer?
27:49
Speaker 1: How do you get them to talk? Do you avoid
27:51
Speaker 1: the things that normally work for investigators? What do you
27:54
Speaker 1: mean by that? Do you avoid things like you know, remorse,
27:58
Speaker 1: enclosure for the family because they don't have remorse and
28:01
Speaker 1: they don't care about closure. No, No, it doesn't appeal
28:04
Speaker 1: to them at all. I mean, you're asking them to
28:07
Speaker 1: open up their soul to the things that are more
28:10
Speaker 1: intimate to them than anything in life. Why should they
28:13
Speaker 1: do that with you? And that's what you're working for,
28:19
Speaker 1: real friendly, she she will laughing. Well, with Sammy, there's
28:28
Speaker 1: indications of visualization of when he's thinking about a crime scene,
28:33
Speaker 1: he'll start stroking his face and as he's starting to
28:36
Speaker 1: picture a victim, you'll see him look out and up
28:41
Speaker 1: and you can tell he has this revolving carousel of
28:44
Speaker 1: victims and it's just spinning and he's waiting for it
28:47
Speaker 1: to stop at the one that he wants to talk
28:49
Speaker 1: about to Bobby Chico, former FBI special agent, host of
28:53
Speaker 1: Facebook watch series Curse of Acricord. Bobby, how do you
28:57
Speaker 1: get someone like Samuel Little to tell at all? Well,
29:01
Speaker 1: in this case, it was very interesting that the Texas
29:04
Speaker 1: Ranger Holland, came from Texas to Los Angeles to interview
29:07
Speaker 1: him in jail. He spoke to the LAPD detectives who
29:11
Speaker 1: had arrested Samuel Little, and they told him they had
29:14
Speaker 1: a terrible relationship with him. He wasn't talking to them,
29:17
Speaker 1: he didn't like them, but they told Holland to use that.
29:20
Speaker 1: In other words, Holland went in and he kind of
29:23
Speaker 1: pretended he didn't like the LAPD and that the lad
29:27
Speaker 1: probably treated Little wrongly and things like that. So we
29:30
Speaker 1: played into what the LAPD officers and detectives were telling
29:33
Speaker 1: them about Little, and he basically went in there and
29:36
Speaker 1: he befriended Little, and he didn't judge him, and he
29:39
Speaker 1: went in there a very matter of factly, tell me
29:41
Speaker 1: about this, tell me about that, without ever expressing the
29:45
Speaker 1: horror that we would normally feel when someone is detailing
29:48
Speaker 1: these things to you. He had to keep basically a
29:51
Speaker 1: poker face on, but he basically used in the very
29:54
Speaker 1: beginning his dislike for the LAPD, and Holland went in
29:59
Speaker 1: there with a feigned similar dislike of the LAPD, and
30:03
Speaker 1: he found that one piece of common ground initially that
30:07
Speaker 1: he needed to establish that rapport, and everything else in
30:11
Speaker 1: this case flowed out of that rapport. This really does
30:15
Speaker 1: boil down to a very good investigator in Texas Ranger
30:18
Speaker 1: teaming up with two FBI analysts from ViCAP, which is
30:21
Speaker 1: our Violent Criminal Engine Program, and they gave him all
30:25
Speaker 1: the similar murders across the country that Little may have done,
30:28
Speaker 1: and Holland was able to go through those and you
30:30
Speaker 1: hear him say, tell me about northern Kentucky, and Samuel
30:34
Speaker 1: Little goes into what happened in northern Kentucky. Holland knew
30:38
Speaker 1: about northern Kentucky because the ViCAP analysts told him we
30:41
Speaker 1: found something very similar in Kentucky that fits this particular
30:46
Speaker 1: m So it was a great teamwork. But it really
30:48
Speaker 1: comes down to the rapport that Holland established with Little
30:52
Speaker 1: very early on. In fact, in their very first meeting
31:07
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, we are talking about Samuel Little,
31:16
Speaker 1: the most prolific you as serial killer in history. Take
31:23
Speaker 1: a listen to what Samuel Little says about Little Rock, Arkansas.
31:28
Speaker 1: Oh man, I loved I forget her name, oh here,
31:32
Speaker 1: I think was Ruth Okay. She was a heavy set
31:36
Speaker 1: being yellow girl and had buck team. He had a
31:41
Speaker 1: gap tweensy belly wood and she she was less the
31:47
Speaker 1: honeycotters game, and she had like her hair was not
31:51
Speaker 1: really long. I called Ny think she was she was
31:55
Speaker 1: but five something how much think coast to two hundred
32:01
Speaker 1: by one hundred and seventy pretty pretty big girl. Yeah,
32:05
Speaker 1: Now where did you meet her at? Okay? He dined
32:07
Speaker 1: in the rough crackhouse. Was they were heard by six
32:11
Speaker 1: other girls. Was setting on the porch do seven cracking there.
32:18
Speaker 1: I stopped to go there. I've seen a girl. That's
32:21
Speaker 1: why I stopped. We stayed Gilla two days or who
32:26
Speaker 1: I think about three days. We was going shop lifting,
32:30
Speaker 1: We went to sears, we went to a course and
32:35
Speaker 1: that's where I got busted. They took me to jail,
32:42
Speaker 1: and she went and stayed in the car and the
32:45
Speaker 1: magic of Crowers, I guess he got tired of her
32:50
Speaker 1: land on the Das property. In that car he called
32:53
Speaker 1: the pold the station where I was at in north
32:57
Speaker 1: northzo To dropped so you can come down and get
33:03
Speaker 1: this girl and card him the cover and loose. So
33:08
Speaker 1: we was headed towards with that place where wal marts
33:15
Speaker 1: and the original stove ben. I whipped off the rule
33:21
Speaker 1: and back into the little woods. It was a corn
33:24
Speaker 1: field back there. I pulled through it and on us
33:28
Speaker 1: side with cornfield with a little trash pole. My part
33:32
Speaker 1: of car face it out where I could see anybody
33:34
Speaker 1: coming in. So I pulled her out of that car.
33:38
Speaker 1: She's too big for me to car carry, so I
33:40
Speaker 1: just pulled out of car. Later on that trash that
33:44
Speaker 1: let there, So it was like a cornstalt pole was yeah,
33:48
Speaker 1: a bunch of cornstocks. What could you see from there?
33:51
Speaker 1: I could see the highway and in the woods is
33:57
Speaker 1: that way but it's right outside. Was a little of
34:01
Speaker 1: ten Mouth from north little rocket ten miles. How brazen
34:07
Speaker 1: to Bethany Marshall psycho Alice joining me from La. He
34:12
Speaker 1: could see the highway from where he was. He basically
34:15
Speaker 1: left her dead body near a highway, true, behind some cornstalks,
34:20
Speaker 1: but by the highway. Did you hear when he said,
34:24
Speaker 1: quote I loved her, but he killed her, and that
34:27
Speaker 1: she had buck teeth with a little gap, and that
34:30
Speaker 1: she had honeycolored skin, Nancy, you can hear the whole
34:34
Speaker 1: offending pattern in how he tells the story. He starts
34:38
Speaker 1: with her appearance, which is obviously what the Texas Ranger
34:41
Speaker 1: asked him about. He wanted a description. But you know
34:44
Speaker 1: you have that the honeycolored skin, the medium hair, the
34:47
Speaker 1: buck teeth, the little gap. So this is what he's doing.
34:51
Speaker 1: He's trolling for victims and he's looking at their appearance.
34:55
Speaker 1: He probably has a type that he likes. Next, he
34:59
Speaker 1: commits some kind other petty crime for what purpose, I
35:02
Speaker 1: don't know, at a Kroger's, at a grocery store. Then
35:05
Speaker 1: he starts looking for a place to secrete the body,
35:09
Speaker 1: and there are so many mentions of underbrush shura, it's
35:12
Speaker 1: like a muddy swamp or the vegetation in the area
35:17
Speaker 1: is very important to him. Going out onto a lonely
35:20
Speaker 1: road and then facing back towards the highway. It would
35:24
Speaker 1: be interesting to know, like why he chose to do that.
35:28
Speaker 1: Was there something sort of almost exhibitionistic about that, as
35:31
Speaker 1: if he's killing this woman while at the same time
35:35
Speaker 1: looking down on society. You know, I think there's something there.
35:38
Speaker 1: I'm not sure that the Texas Ranger would be interested
35:42
Speaker 1: in that aspect of it, but I think it's really
35:45
Speaker 1: fascinating and I think it could contribute to our common
35:49
Speaker 1: knowledge of serial killers, why they pick certain locations and
35:53
Speaker 1: why they offend in the particular ways that they do.
35:56
Speaker 1: To talk to Tim Gallagher, medical examiner for the State
35:58
Speaker 1: of Florida, When a body is left out in the elements.
36:02
Speaker 1: Does it decompose much more quickly than if it was
36:05
Speaker 1: inside of a structure. Absolutely, And the reason why that
36:08
Speaker 1: is is because the big variation in temperature decomposition is
36:13
Speaker 1: highly variable on the temperature and the external environment. In
36:17
Speaker 1: the outside, the sun is beating down on the body.
36:21
Speaker 1: There are predatory animals, There are scavenger insects that help
36:26
Speaker 1: in the acceleration of decomposition. We often find many pounds
36:33
Speaker 1: of maggots and beetles and worms inside of these bodies
36:38
Speaker 1: when they decompose, and that accelerates the decomposition. You know,
36:41
Speaker 1: after watching and listening to hours of this guy confessing
36:45
Speaker 1: to one murder after the next, it's like he's describing
36:49
Speaker 1: going on dates with these women. He knows. One is
36:52
Speaker 1: named Ruth. He says he loved her. He seems attached
36:55
Speaker 1: to her buck teeth and a little gap between the
36:58
Speaker 1: front two teeth. Bobby to comb O, host of Facebook
37:01
Speaker 1: watch series Curse of Aquacre, I noticed he gets more
37:06
Speaker 1: and more animated and into it and excited as he
37:11
Speaker 1: describes how he strangles his victims. At one point, he says,
37:16
Speaker 1: she was fighting for her life and I'm fighting for
37:20
Speaker 1: my pleasure. Yeah, and this is this is a hallmark
37:23
Speaker 1: of a sexual sadist, which he probably was. And this
37:27
Speaker 1: is what doctor Marshall described earlier, where he's deriving sexual
37:31
Speaker 1: pleasure out of her fear, anxiety, and pain. And so
37:35
Speaker 1: you know, I wouldn't be surprised and we'll never know, um,
37:37
Speaker 1: but I wouldn't be surprised if some of these manual
37:39
Speaker 1: strangulations didn't end in death the first time. In other words,
37:41
Speaker 1: he brings him to the edge of death and then
37:43
Speaker 1: they start, He allows him to start breathing again, and
37:46
Speaker 1: then he repeats, he repeats the act. So the the
37:50
Speaker 1: sexual gratification that a sexual statist will achieve is not
37:53
Speaker 1: from the sex act itself, but it's actually the lead up.
37:56
Speaker 1: And of course, now that he's able to talk about
37:59
Speaker 1: it again, he's we living that and he's he's he's
38:02
Speaker 1: deriving pleasure from it again. So that's that's what you're
38:05
Speaker 1: hearing in his voice. You're hearing about that satisfaction and
38:07
Speaker 1: that pleasure that he's getting recalling these these many horrific crimes.
38:12
Speaker 1: You know, decades later. Take a listen to what this
38:15
Speaker 1: prolific serial killer, Samuel Little says about Vegas. She was
38:21
Speaker 1: gonna thin dark skin, about forty years old when she
38:26
Speaker 1: got there, Curson, I thank you drug d because she
38:30
Speaker 1: would be out there. How cold was she? She was
38:33
Speaker 1: about five five five three and she waited about hunting
38:37
Speaker 1: Town twenty What about her? Did you know the bloodcame?
38:41
Speaker 1: She's ever the son? She called him over it. He
38:46
Speaker 1: came over ship my hand and everything. Yet now old
38:50
Speaker 1: was he? He was about twenty or about nineteen twenty?
38:55
Speaker 1: Blackmail or black nil? And where were you at on
38:58
Speaker 1: your mater who was on a vue? Jackson? Where do
39:03
Speaker 1: you eventually take her body too? Here's what Californa. So
39:10
Speaker 1: that drove out of low things. And I've seen a
39:13
Speaker 1: motail rule leading up to the rutail. You know, there's
39:18
Speaker 1: a lot of bushes and impressions us beside the rule
39:23
Speaker 1: before you got to that motil. That's what pull of
39:27
Speaker 1: her bite out and rolling down there. And I heard
39:30
Speaker 1: a secondary role of noise that meant she was still
39:34
Speaker 1: rolling to doctor Bethany Marshall, Bobby Chacomb, Karen Smith, doctor
39:39
Speaker 1: Tim Gallagher, and Levi Page. The FBI is still begging
39:45
Speaker 1: the public to help identify these victims and bring some
39:49
Speaker 1: peace to their long abandoned families. Can you even imagine
39:55
Speaker 1: that kind of pain? Go to crime online dot Com,
39:59
Speaker 1: where you can see not only see and hear Samuel
40:03
Speaker 1: Little's confessions and allies and judging for yourself, but also
40:09
Speaker 1: links to help identify these women. We now know at
40:15
Speaker 1: least ninety three women terrorized, sexually assaulted, and murdered. We
40:24
Speaker 1: wait as justice unfolds. Nancy Grace crime story signing off
40:30
Speaker 1: goodbye friend,