Latest / Scrappy but Successful [Consultant's Personalities When No One's Watching] / 14. The Body Keeps the Score in Business with Elizabeth Rose

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14. The Body Keeps the Score in Business with Elizabeth Rose · Scrappy but Successful [Consultant's Personalities When No One's Watching]

• 0:03
  What's happening everybody? Welcome to Scrappy But Successful, the show
• 0:06
  where I sit down with your favorite consultants and we
• 0:09
  take the comedic route through their life and we find
• 0:12
  out if they're successful today because they're sophisticated or
• 0:15
  because they're a little bit scrappy. I'm your host, Jack Tompkins,
• 0:18
  CEO of Pineapple Consulting Firm, always trying to help the
• 0:22
  small business world be more data-driven. Today's fun fact, the
• 0:25
  most consumed fruit in the world is mangoes. It's a
• 0:28
  very humbling stat for us pineapple enthusiasts. But that's neither
• 0:31
  here nor there. Today I'm joined by my friend Elizabeth
• 0:34
  Rose. She's a leadership and executive coach at Garth Rose
• 0:37
  Consulting Group. She's got 27 years of mediation experience, a
• 0:41
  decade of executive coaching experience. She's a somatic, experiencing practitioner.
• 0:44
  We're gonna find out what the heck that means. But
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  Elizabeth, the question we have for you first, we know
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  you're successful today, but do think you fall more on
• 0:53
  the sophisticated side or more on the scrappy side?
• 0:57
  I would say that I lean more towards scrappy. Yes.
• 1:00
  Okay. I think we will, we'll see if the data agrees with you.
• 1:07
  Okay, all right. I would have to say that I
• 1:09
  get to be scrappy because my husband founded Garth Rose
• 1:12
  Consulting and he's more structured, linear, sophisticated, so I got
• 1:14
  to land on an ecosystem that lets me be scrappy.
• 1:22
  Ooh, the perfect combination. Okay. Take us back to the
• 1:25
  beginning. Where did you grow up? Did you have entrepreneurs in the family?
• 1:31
  No, actually. I grew up on - I'm gonna use my
• 1:34
  New York accent for this - Long Island. Long Island, New
• 1:37
  York. I grew up in New York. I moved to,
• 1:41
  we lived overseas for a while, but I moved to
• 1:44
  Massachusetts in 1986. That's where my husband was. I moved
• 1:47
  up and we got married, raised our kids there.
• 1:56
  2013 when we moved to California, which is where I
• 1:59
  am now. No entrepreneurs in my family of origin. My
• 2:03
  dad worked for the same company for most of his
• 2:06
  life. My grandparents were pretty traditional. And then I married
• 2:09
  my husband, who's an entrepreneur. So I think so, yeah.
• 2:16
  Okay, so that's the first foray. Did you have any entrepreneurial
• 2:19
  tendencies? Like did you have a lemonade stand or did
• 2:23
  you sell candy at school or anything?
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  No, I was a ballet dancer, which is actually an
• 2:28
  incredibly structured art form. But I definitely was a free
• 2:31
  spirit, push the boundaries kind of a human my whole
• 2:34
  life probably. One of the data tools we use in
• 2:37
  our coaching is a tool called the talent analytic assessment.
• 2:40
  And I'm a 99 individualistic, which is somebody who wants
• 2:43
  to be unique, pushes the boundaries. You know, the kid
• 2:46
  in high school who dyed their hair purple. Like, not
• 2:49
  that I did that, but yeah, that's me. So, certainly
• 2:52
  grew up in a structured paradigm, but I'm not a structured person.
• 3:09
  Right, you're always looking to push. That is very entrepreneurial,
• 3:12
  right? Kind of just doing your own thing regardless of what everybody else is doing.
• 3:14
  Yeah, that pretty much was me.
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  Did you do anything that was very - just like - you
• 3:21
  look back and you're like, man, that was out there?
• 3:26
  Not growing up, which is what's I think really interesting.
• 3:29
  I did well in school. I followed the rules most
• 3:32
  of the time. I was very disciplined in my dance.
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  I really don't think I started to explore like pushing
• 3:39
  those boundaries till I was older, honestly. Once I went
• 3:42
  off to college, probably maybe high school a little bit.
• 3:50
  I didn't feel called to either. I didn't feel stifled
• 3:53
  as a kid. My parents were pretty easy. We didn't
• 3:57
  have a curfew. It was like, come home when it's
• 4:00
  reasonable for what you're doing. But yeah, don't think it
• 4:04
  was until I really, probably having kids was probably the
• 4:07
  beginning of me going, wait a minute, the status quo's not working for me.
• 4:27
  I'm gonna do this a little bit differently. We homeschooled
• 4:30
  our kids. I definitely parented differently than a lot of
• 4:34
  my peers. We did family bed. We homeschooled, my son
• 4:37
  is 35 now. This was before it was trendy. So
• 4:41
  I think my kids were, when I started to go,
• 4:44
  okay, I gotta follow what feels right. That was the beginning, probably.
• 5:07
  Yeah, and they were, actually. And then by the time
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  I was a teenager, when I referenced that we lived
• 5:14
  in Europe, my dad had quit his job and instead
• 5:17
  of getting a new one, we traveled around Europe for a year.
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  And so they were - my dad is an individualistic too.
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  He's just more prickly about it than I am.
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  Oh my goodness. So I was 16 when my dad
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  left the job he had at the time and decided
• 5:58
  that this would be a fun adventure for the family
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  and I literally thought he ruined my life. I was
• 6:05
  going into my junior year of high school. I had my first boyfriend.
• 6:08
  And I was gonna go live in a VW camper
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  with my parents and then travel around Europe and I
• 6:15
  was miserable for like three months. The pictures from that
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  time, I was miserable for like three months. Like you
• 6:22
  could see it in my face. My younger sister was
• 6:25
  with us, she was six years younger than me. My
• 6:29
  oldest sister was in college, she didn't come.
• 6:30
  But then over time it was like, this is kind
• 6:33
  of amazing and looking back this is amazing. So maybe
• 6:37
  they did camp out in the wilderness for a part
• 6:40
  of my childhood. Now that I'm reflecting on this with
• 6:44
  you, I'm like, wait a minute, I gotta rewrite my
• 6:47
  whole narrative of my childhood. I had really funky parents!
• 7:01
  No, he got a job overseas and we moved, I
• 7:04
  did my senior year of high school in Hong Kong.
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  Whoa, okay, so you're not even in Europe anymore. You're going...
• 7:10
  No, we went to Hong Kong for my senior year,
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  which was great because I went to the Hong Kong
• 7:17
  National School. Most of the kids were very transient, so
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  I made friends really easily. I learned how to swear
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  in Mandarin, which is a very important skill to have.
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  And then I went back to Massachusetts actually for college.
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  Okay, I mean, Massachusetts. I'm from New England. I'm a
• 7:35
  Yankee fan, but I understand how Boston works. Okay, Long
• 7:39
  Island, sure, makes sense. Boston's pretty different than Europe. Is
• 7:42
  this culture shock?
• 7:39
  All right, Mets fan myself, so thank you. It was
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  - remember it was only one year in Europe and
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  then one year in Hong Kong. We had lived in
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  Los Angeles for three years before that. So I had
• 7:53
  that experience, which is I think one of the reasons
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  why when my husband and I decided to leave the
• 8:00
  cold New England winters, we picked California. A pricey choice, but a good choice.
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  Yeah, so we didn't get a tax break by moving
• 8:22
  across the country. So I picked Massachusetts for college. I
• 8:26
  picked Wheaton College, which was an all-women's college at the
• 8:29
  time. I thought I would forge some really strong women
• 8:33
  friends, but it wasn't the right school for me.
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  Okay, and being the individualistic person that you are, maybe
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  not rebelling at the time, still being in a traditional
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  environment is probably a little...
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  It wasn't, I didn't match. I didn't match the social
• 9:23
  environment at the time. Yeah, it wasn't good.
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  Okay, so what's the eventual degree that you get and where's it from?
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  I got a BA in English with a minor in
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  theater. So I left my sophomore year. I went to
• 9:40
  NYU. I went to Tisch School of the Arts. I
• 9:43
  thought again, maybe I want to be a dancer still.
• 9:51
  I realized that the amount I was putting in, I
• 9:54
  wasn't getting in the arts. If you don't get what
• 9:58
  you're giving you burnout. And I was already starting to
• 10:01
  feel like that wasn't the right path. So then I
• 10:05
  went back to Wheaton. Then I went to England for
• 10:08
  my junior year. And then I went back to Wheaton,
• 10:12
  kept going back. I graduated there, I got a great education.
• 10:26
  At this point you're, whatever, early 20s, you're a world
• 10:29
  traveler. You have, I don't want to say given up
• 10:33
  on the professional dancer, but you go into law from here, right?
• 10:34
  Yep, pretty much, yeah. Actually, I didn't. I graduated college
• 10:37
  and I went into retail. Worked for Macy's. I went
• 10:41
  through the Macy's training program. My dad was in retail
• 10:44
  most of his life. He was in retail so I
• 10:48
  kind of followed in his footsteps. I love fashion and
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  I worked in retail until I had my son in
• 10:55
  1990. So from 1984 to 1990 I was doing retail.
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  Either working as a buyer and assistant buyer or I
• 11:02
  managed a couple of stores, smaller stores, boutique stores up
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  in Massachusetts. And then I had my son and I
• 11:09
  was a stay-at-home mom. And then I got pregnant with
• 11:12
  my daughter and was starting to go a little intellectually
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  crazy. Like I just needed to use my brain.
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  I had always been told when I was a buyer
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  that I negotiated like a lawyer. And I was like,
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  maybe I'll go to law school. And I said to
• 11:47
  my husband, I think I'll go to law school. And
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  he's like, okay, let's go to law school. So I
• 11:54
  started law school right after my middle daughter was born.
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  And then I had my third daughter my second year,
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  maybe my third year, finished in five and a half years.
• 12:07
  New England School of Law and then two schools in
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  California give people with childcare responsibilities six years to finish
• 12:14
  their law degree. It's called a special part-time program. It's
• 12:17
  amazing and you get to pick the classes that match
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  your childcare schedule. They take seven students a year. It's
• 12:24
  a very small program. I met six other women. It
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  was actually all women when I was doing it who
• 12:31
  were in this program with me. We all had this other responsibility.
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  So I graduated law school and my husband's like, you're
• 12:55
  gonna be a lawyer? And I'm like, well, I guess
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  I should be a lawyer. So I became a lawyer.
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  Like, I didn't go to law school to be a
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  lawyer. I went to law school to be functioning as a human.
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  I worked for a single practitioner in Massachusetts, in Newton,
• 13:17
  Massachusetts, which is where we lived at the time. And
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  I lasted about three months with him. I had done
• 13:24
  some volunteer work with the Women's Bar Foundation when I
• 13:28
  first graduated, helping abused women through the divorce process. And
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  it started to kind of morph a little bit into
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  how do I work this through. So I worked for
• 13:38
  this attorney and I found it was so inefficient. The
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  law is beautiful the way it's written and the practice
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  was inefficient. The prices were offensive to me. And so
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  I decided to go back into mediation. I decided to
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  open up a mediation practice.
• 15:04
  Entertainment law mediation. I was doing a lot of independent
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  films and plays and things like that in New England.
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  And then my husband started a new company, the entrepreneur
• 15:14
  I married, right? So life was like this. And health
• 15:18
  insurance is a fortune for a family. And I started
• 15:21
  to work for Starbucks because for 20 hours a week
• 15:25
  you get free healthcare. So I would wake up early
• 15:28
  in the morning, I would do the morning shift, I
• 15:32
  would serve coffee, and it's like being a bartender but
• 15:35
  with coffee, like you really get to know the people.
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  And someone came in early one morning, this guy, and
• 15:42
  I'm like, what's going on with you? Like, you look
• 15:46
  terrible. And he's like, I'm getting divorced. And I'm like,
• 15:49
  I can help you with that. And that was my
• 15:53
  first mediation. On my own, yeah. And I started doing
• 15:56
  divorce mediation. He didn't know he was my first, but.
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  I was a barista and then I was a barrister.
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  Yes, that's what I did. So that's how I started.
• 16:07
  And my name just got passed around. I started doing
• 16:10
  well. So I did that for 25 years. Yeah. Okay.
• 16:14
  Yeah, I guess I'm scrappy. I am scrappy.
• 16:37
  Wait, okay, yeah, so take us through that first client.
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  So you don't have an office, you just kind of
• 16:44
  sold something that you're like, my God, this would be
• 16:47
  great. How do you work with clients?
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  I'm like, here, I can help you, right? I had
• 16:46
  business cards. It said Elizabeth Rose, Esquire, divorce mediation. You
• 16:50
  know, I had my card, so I took it out
• 16:53
  of my pocket. Another customer at Starbucks, he was a
• 16:57
  graphic designer kind of thing that I was friendly with.
• 17:00
  And I actually called him up and said, can I
• 17:04
  use your conference room? And he said, yes. So I
• 17:07
  only did mediations at night. I just told people that
• 17:11
  I only work at night because I'm a full-time mom
• 17:14
  during the day. At night, I just let myself into
• 17:18
  his office and used his conference room. He didn't charge
• 17:21
  me. The deal was I had to vacuum when I
• 17:25
  was done. It was great.
• 17:30
  No, it was perfect. I used it for like two
• 17:33
  years and then I finally got my own office because
• 17:37
  I started doing it more. Like, I needed to do
• 17:40
  it during the day and I didn't work for Starbucks anymore.
• 17:45
  I don't remember how long I worked for Starbucks. It
• 17:48
  was a sad day for my family because I brought
• 17:52
  home all the pastries at the end of the day.
• 17:55
  They loved that. I think I want to say I
• 17:59
  worked for them for like a year maybe. I can't
• 18:02
  remember how long I did that for, honestly.
• 18:27
  Yeah, and I started running a mediation practice. I am
• 18:30
  very much a wing it kind of person. I always
• 18:34
  have been, you know, wrote my papers the night before.
• 18:37
  I'm not a planning person. I'm kind of like a
• 18:41
  do it and then figure it out rather than a
• 18:44
  let's get all the pieces in a row. That's me.
• 18:57
  I'm a ready fire aim rather than ready aim fire.
• 19:00
  I have this really great story. So my daughter - two
• 19:04
  of my kids are kind of like me, kind of
• 19:07
  wing it. My youngest needed structure, which is not me.
• 19:11
  And I remember when she was little, she came to
• 19:14
  me one day and she's like, I need you to
• 19:18
  tell me when to go to sleep. Because I was
• 19:21
  kind of like, when you're tired, you go to sleep,
• 19:25
  right? We didn't have like a bedtime. And I'm like,
• 19:28
  well, I'm not really good at this. So maybe you
• 19:32
  can help me. And she's like, I will help you.
• 19:35
  And every night she'd come to me and she'd be
• 19:39
  like, I'm ready for you to tell me to go
• 19:42
  to sleep. And I'm like, okay Faith, it's time for
• 19:46
  you to go to sleep. And she'd be like, okay.
• 19:49
  She was like eight when she said this to me.
• 20:11
  Yeah, you know, it wasn't, it's interesting. It wasn't permission
• 20:14
  really. It was just me creating a container for her
• 20:18
  that would make her feel safer. Right? And I was
• 20:21
  just more like, with the flow, it's time to eat.
• 20:25
  Let's have some food. What are you in the mood
• 20:28
  for? Let's go to bed. When are you tired? We
• 20:32
  homeschooled our kids. So there was flexibility.
• 20:49
  Okay, is she the kind of person - like if
• 20:52
  there's a plan to hang out in a certain part
• 20:56
  of town, like okay cool, that's the plan, I will
• 20:59
  be there, you told me when, you told me where,
• 21:03
  I'm good, and then I'll do whatever once we're there?
• 21:30
  She will start sending me Airbnbs now. Like she wants
• 21:33
  to know the plan the minute the idea exists. I'm
• 21:37
  like, I can't think about this until January of 2028,
• 21:40
  because that's how I do it. Yes.
• 21:54
  Okay, yeah. Okay, you wanna know, because you're nervous, you're
• 21:57
  feeling like your nervous system is going, wait a minute,
• 22:01
  I just need a little something to ground on because
• 22:04
  that exists now, right? Isn't that interesting? I love that.
• 22:32
  Yeah, you know, it's interesting. So I think intuitively, I
• 22:35
  just knew it from a very young parenting age, right?
• 22:39
  Like I was noticing like if my son had a
• 22:42
  reaction to something, wow, there's a lot of emotion in
• 22:46
  your body. What do we need to do to get
• 22:49
  it out? I was using languaging like that when they
• 22:53
  were pretty little. So I just think part of it's just intuitive.
• 23:10
  I'm pretty empathic. I can kind of pick up people's
• 23:13
  energy and vibrations anyway. My tagline in mediation was ending
• 23:17
  your marriage while sustaining your family. Because I was predominantly
• 23:20
  working with couples with children, and my goal was how
• 23:24
  do I help these people stay connected as great parents?
• 23:27
  So it was really a therapeutic mediation model. Yet let's
• 23:31
  honor these emotions, okay, let's go back into the legal
• 23:34
  bucket. There's an activation there. We can't negotiate if you're
• 23:38
  activated, let's go back here, what's going on? I want
• 23:41
  you to make sound legal decisions, but I don't want
• 23:45
  to ignore your emotional reactions. How can I hold space for both?
• 24:15
  I think my own therapy certainly helped, doing my own
• 24:18
  work around what's going on with me, where are my
• 24:22
  limits, where am I activated, what inner child is showing
• 24:25
  up in this moment, right? Why is my seven-year-old in
• 24:29
  this conversation rather than the adult me? That kind of work.
• 24:39
  Yeah, I think it was, just, and I just collected
• 24:42
  resources over time. Most recently I got trained as that
• 24:46
  somatic experiencing practitioner.
• 24:49
  That's what that is. Okay, so that is - if
• 24:52
  I put this into data nerd terms, this is being
• 24:56
  able to understand the feelings that are going on with
• 24:59
  the actions that are happening.
• 25:00
  Yeah, it is. It's an interesting one. Our emotional body
• 25:03
  always comes before our thinking brain. We think our thinking
• 25:07
  brain is first often because it comes online in a
• 25:10
  nanosecond. We interpret what we're feeling. Our activation happens. So
• 25:14
  somatics is really working from the activation up rather than
• 25:17
  cognitive therapy, which is from the thought down. We're going,
• 25:21
  what's going on in here? What is this, right? And
• 25:24
  what emotion it is and how do we access it
• 25:28
  and figure out what it's trying to tell us. And
• 25:31
  then we get to interpret it. That's part of the
• 25:35
  process is the narrative around it. Is the narrative real
• 25:38
  or not? Am I making up a story that serves
• 25:42
  me or am I really looking and trying to make
• 25:45
  sense of what's really happening? So it's bottom up.
• 26:01
  Okay, that's very interesting. And bottom up means the emotion
• 26:04
  first and then dealing with it. This is really interesting.
• 26:07
  I think you might have a book - I don't
• 26:10
  remember who wrote it - The Body Keeps the Score.
• 26:14
  It talks about our emotional traumas, big T, little T
• 26:17
  traumas. Big like I went to war, or a little
• 26:21
  like some kid teased me when I was nine and
• 26:24
  said my ears are big. It gets stored in the
• 26:28
  body. If it gets stored in the body, it's a
• 26:31
  wounding. And that's why your neck might always hurt because
• 26:35
  the fight you had with your dad when you were
• 26:38
  12 still lives there, you know. So what's going on
• 26:42
  in our bodies that causes our nervous system to activate?
• 26:53
  Are there stories of like - I don't know if
• 26:56
  this would be physical therapy, mental therapy, whatever - talk therapy.
• 27:00
  Do you get rid of those physical manifestations of wounds like that?
• 27:06
  You know, I love that you're asking this question. So
• 27:09
  my youngest daughter - all my kids, interestingly enough - do
• 27:13
  work that's in this somatic bucket. Right? I joke, you
• 27:16
  know, you teach what you need to learn, like what
• 27:20
  did I do to them? What kind of trauma did
• 27:23
  I create in your life? Like you're all doing this,
• 27:27
  right? But I like to think it's just because they're
• 27:30
  mindful and intuitive. So my youngest is a massage therapist
• 27:34
  but she is a somatic healer and she will talk
• 27:37
  through the massage and she'll work on what comes up
• 27:41
  in the session. Like she'll be working on someone's lower
• 27:44
  back and they'll be like, wow, I just had this
• 27:48
  memory of my dad drop in. And it's because she's
• 27:51
  releasing the body's hold of that event.
• 28:13
  My son does it as well. He's a somatic experiencing
• 28:16
  practitioner. But he's also an agoskew therapist, which is alignment
• 28:20
  therapy. And he'll work on the body in alignment. We
• 28:23
  move, we compensate. Our neck hurts because of a trauma,
• 28:27
  but now our hip's out of alignment. And then our
• 28:30
  ankle hurts, right? My middle daughter does voice activation. Our
• 28:34
  voice is an instrument of our body. And it's another
• 28:37
  way to release and regulate nervous system is sound. So
• 28:41
  she does movement and sound. So yeah, there's lots of
• 28:44
  different modalities to heal it.
• 28:49
  Okay. This is so - this isn't even like funky
• 28:52
  woo woo science. This is like, no, there's a thing
• 28:56
  that I'm literally touching right here and it is a
• 28:59
  memory and then we're just going to massage that out.
• 29:03
  This is really cool. Cause I'm thinking back now, like
• 29:06
  I've done physical therapy, I've done talk therapy, I've done
• 29:10
  massage therapy. All of them have helped in different ways.
• 29:34
  I think it does. I believe it does. I think
• 29:37
  paying attention to it is what is really important. We
• 29:41
  get a memory that drops in or we have an
• 29:44
  experience that feels completely different than what happened in second
• 29:48
  grade, but all of a sudden you're interacting with someone
• 29:51
  and this memory of your secondary teacher drops in. Well,
• 29:55
  why did that drop in? What is that? And why
• 29:58
  did your chest constrict?
• 30:02
  And then we get to go, okay, what's going on
• 30:05
  here? Right? Like, let's pay attention and see if that's
• 30:09
  something that's important. It might not be - not every
• 30:12
  memory that drops in, every thought has the same weight,
• 30:16
  but it's all information for us to explore and see
• 30:19
  what's going on, you know?
• 30:21
  What's something that you would recommend for just an average
• 30:24
  day-to-day person? What's something that you would recommend to at
• 30:28
  least just open the door for this so they can
• 30:31
  try and maybe identify the thoughts or something like that?
• 30:34
  That's such a great question. You know, I think we
• 30:37
  tend to not track our bodies as much as we
• 30:41
  have the opportunity to do because our thinking brain comes
• 30:44
  online so fast and that's a much safer place to
• 30:48
  be even though the thoughts sometimes can be pretty awful.
• 30:51
  So if I'm in a conversation with you and I
• 30:55
  all of a sudden feel my cheeks tingle or my
• 30:58
  hands or my chest constricts or I get queasy, chances
• 31:02
  are most people won't go, what was that? Why am
• 31:05
  I talking to Jack and my chest got tight? So
• 31:09
  we're missing a cue that something's happening because we're not
• 31:12
  tracking. It's really hard to track our body in real
• 31:16
  time if we don't practice.
• 31:21
  So we have to start to learn. There's a wonderful
• 31:24
  two minute meditation called a body scan. You close your
• 31:28
  eyes and you bring your thoughts from your head down
• 31:31
  through your body. You just kind of track through your
• 31:35
  body. It's a meditative practice for people who just need
• 31:38
  to relax. But if you do it and ask, you're
• 31:42
  tracking and you go, there's tightness in my neck. I
• 31:45
  wonder what... just noticing where you hold things. And then
• 31:49
  maybe the next time you do it, you go, what
• 31:52
  emotion lives here? Is this feeling hot or cold? Does
• 31:56
  it have a color? Like just different ways to start
• 31:59
  to pay attention. If you practice that, eventually you'll start
• 32:03
  to be able to track in real time. Right? Like
• 32:06
  I know when something's happening. Yeah. For a long time.
• 32:30
  You know what's so funny is a body scan for
• 32:33
  me - because essentially what you're saying is that conversation
• 32:37
  should happen internally, right? Just recognize the cue. In my
• 32:40
  mind, that's the same as me planning for something. I'm
• 32:44
  like, okay, there's an event on Saturday at 1 p.m.
• 32:47
  Okay, cool, I know it's there, and now I can
• 32:51
  handle it. And now, ooh, my neck hurts. Okay, I
• 32:54
  know it's there, now I can think through it.
• 32:56
  Yeah, yeah, right? Like that's your brain just made sense
• 32:59
  of it in a way that goes, okay, this works
• 33:03
  for me now. You don't need to explore the what's
• 33:06
  in it in the moment if I'm having a conversation
• 33:10
  with you. You can store it and then later go.
• 33:13
  Okay, what's going on neck? What do you want to
• 33:17
  tell me? But yes, it gives you stability.
• 33:23
  Yeah, yeah, I'm a big expectation setting. I just like
• 33:26
  to know what are the expectations and I feel like
• 33:30
  that's the same thing here. Like, okay, I've got a
• 33:33
  plan. I know I've got an issue over here. I
• 33:37
  can deal with it later though.
• 33:23
  Absolutely, right? Yeah, so sometimes I'll tell people talk to
• 33:26
  your parts. If this activates and you need to deal
• 33:30
  with it later, you know, you might want to say
• 33:33
  to that part: I'm not ignoring you. I'll deal with
• 33:37
  you later. Because it's trying to tell you something. I
• 33:40
  always say emotions are toddlers. They get super loud unless
• 33:44
  we pay attention. Yes, I hear you. I just have
• 33:47
  to put the lasagna in the oven and then I
• 33:51
  can pay attention and they go, okay.
• 33:54
  Right. Okay. Tell me how this comes up in business.
• 33:57
  Because obviously you don't do much traditional mediation now. Now
• 34:01
  it's much more executive coaching, right? How does this play out?
• 34:04
  I've closed my mediation business down. I don't do it
• 34:07
  anymore. I do a little bit of family and couples
• 34:11
  mediation work, which is much more therapeutic, but I don't
• 34:14
  do the legal stuff anymore. So I'm a leadership and
• 34:18
  executive coach. I work predominantly with GMs or the leadership
• 34:21
  team of a business. I can help any leader become
• 34:25
  great at delegation, great at accountability, running one-on-ones, all of
• 34:28
  that. But if they're in an activation, they can't even
• 34:32
  access their toolbox of skills, because they're activated, right? They're
• 34:35
  in it. And so I would say 60% of any
• 34:39
  hour session that I'm doing with a leader is in
• 34:42
  the emotional bucket. We're doing nervous system work. We're doing
• 34:46
  self-reflection, self-awareness, awareness of others, that emotional intelligence model.
• 35:13
  Okay, and I'm assuming these leaders that you're working with
• 35:16
  - they're not like the grizzled old guy who's been
• 35:20
  doing it for 100 years. They're just like, hey, I'm
• 35:23
  just trying to do stuff and run my business, but
• 35:27
  they don't necessarily take the time to identify that piece. Is that fair?
• 35:28
  I don't think it's taught for leaders. I think there's
• 35:31
  a huge paradigm shift in business anyway. Certainly, 20, 30
• 35:35
  years ago, a leader was strong and stoic and didn't
• 35:38
  show emotion. Great leaders are vulnerable. They admit if they're
• 35:42
  having a lousy day. A great leader will walk into
• 35:45
  a leadership meeting and say, you know what? My two-year-old
• 35:49
  was up all night last night and I am not
• 35:52
  going to be a great communicator. That's a great leader.
• 35:56
  You wouldn't have seen that 20 years ago. So there's
• 35:59
  an openness to exploring vulnerability, that we're emotional humans, that
• 36:03
  we bring ourselves to work. So if you had a
• 36:06
  bad day at home, it doesn't just stay at home.
• 36:28
  I work in family business so it's multi-generational. And even
• 36:31
  the founders or that upper generation, there's an openness to
• 36:35
  exploring this. Maybe not as much as the younger people
• 36:38
  I work with, but there's an openness to it. There's
• 36:42
  a recognition that, wait a minute, there's something here. I
• 36:45
  think there's just a shift in the ecosystem. So yeah.
• 37:03
  Okay, so who's the ideal person that you work with?
• 37:06
  Is it the person who is that old school traditional
• 37:10
  stoic leader, or is it somebody who has much more
• 37:13
  of a growth mindset and wants to maximize it?
• 37:24
  I honestly think that everyone, first of all, should do
• 37:27
  somatic therapy. First of all, I think everyone should have
• 37:31
  a therapist. We all should have that person who's not
• 37:34
  emotionally invested in us. Your sister's not going to give
• 37:38
  you great advice because they're emotionally invested, or your dad,
• 37:41
  or your best friend. And we all have stuff. The
• 37:45
  human experience has stuff. My ideal client is someone who
• 37:48
  wants to learn and grow and show up in their
• 37:52
  best way and then not shame themselves if they can't.
• 37:55
  I prefer to work with leaders because it's very frustrating
• 37:59
  for someone lower down in a company to start to
• 38:02
  learn these skills and not have the culture of the
• 38:06
  company support it. And the culture of company is top
• 38:09
  down, it just is. Cultural shift, communication shifts, that kind
• 38:13
  of thing happens predominantly top down.
• 38:55
  Yeah. Right. Right. It's acknowledging where we're at and then
• 38:58
  being the best leader we can be. Yeah.
• 39:15
  Okay, so I'm a metrics guy, I'm a data nerd,
• 39:18
  right? So I'm looking at this and I can quantify.
• 39:22
  How do you define success with something like this?
• 39:30
  So that's such a great question. When communication is better
• 39:33
  in a business and people feel appreciated and valued and
• 39:37
  recognized, productivity goes up. And you can see it, right?
• 39:40
  Because the sales guy who's not being validated and his
• 39:44
  ideas are never being implemented or even considered is going
• 39:47
  to lose drive. Drive is autonomy, mastery and purpose. And
• 39:51
  if you don't feel valued and appreciated, what's your purpose
• 39:54
  to the whole? So we do see that when communication
• 39:58
  is better, when people are acknowledged, when they're recognized, when
• 40:01
  they can regulate, when they can stay in the game,
• 40:05
  productivity goes up. People feel more cohesive as a group,
• 40:08
  they feel listened to, they feel honored and valued.
• 40:50
  Okay, so this is actually so interesting because the salesperson
• 40:53
  is the greatest example, right? Because it's easy, their job
• 40:57
  is to go sell, they sell more, they're happy, right?
• 41:00
  My strictly data method would be, okay, you sold more
• 41:04
  than last month, good job. Yours would be, you are
• 41:07
  happier, you are included, and therefore you sold more. So
• 41:11
  we're ending at the same place, and we're actually starting
• 41:14
  at the same place, but taking two different routes to get there.
• 41:21
  Yeah, it is and I love this example because if
• 41:24
  you're not feeling good, you're not gonna sell as well.
• 41:28
  You're gonna be demotivated and so you're not gonna see
• 41:31
  the end. So what's creating the increase of sales? I
• 41:35
  believe it's essential. But certainly I'm sure there's great productive
• 41:38
  businesses that don't do this at all.
• 42:04
  Yeah, but how much more productive could they be?
• 42:06
  So I would think they could be probably more. Yes, I do.
• 42:10
  Okay, this is really cool. Let me hit you with
• 42:13
  some lightning round Scrappy vs. Sophisticated. So as a wing
• 42:17
  it person, are you saying - somebody wants to schedule
• 42:20
  a meeting with you - are you saying, hey cool Jack,
• 42:24
  I'm free Thursday afternoon, or do you send like a
• 42:27
  link to a calendar?
• 42:18
  I say, hey, let me give you some times. I
• 42:21
  don't have a link to a calendar. I do it
• 42:25
  all this way. Yeah.
• 42:43
  I don't, I do mostly email. I do email. I
• 42:46
  don't do phones. Email or Zoom. So if someone has
• 42:50
  a quick question, I'll make a Zoom call. Because I
• 42:53
  want to see your face because part of communication is
• 42:57
  body language, micro expressions. I want to see if you
• 43:00
  activate. If you're talking to me and all of a
• 43:04
  sudden your eyebrow twitches, I'm going to go, all right,
• 43:07
  what happened there? It'll freak people out, but I don't
• 43:11
  do phone calls very often at all. I only do Zoom.
• 43:24
  I am tracking myself and others all the time. Yeah.
• 43:35
  But you're going to start now because I just...
• 43:39
  yeah, now I know what to look for. Somebody does
• 43:42
  that. I mean, like, OK, trauma, got it. Okay, I love it.
• 43:55
  But I will call people out - call out is
• 43:58
  not the right word. By the time I've created that
• 44:02
  container of trust, I will say, what was that? What
• 44:05
  was that that you just did? Why'd you do that?
• 44:09
  That was a big breath. What's going on there? Like,
• 44:12
  I'll do that. Yeah.
• 44:21
  I work on the other desk.
• 44:27
  Separation of life and business, I assume, is pretty strong then?
• 44:27
  It's more comfortable, I think, for me to sit like
• 44:30
  this. Yeah, I guess I do have a balance of
• 44:34
  life and work. If I have to do something, I
• 44:37
  come to my desk. Yes. Yeah.
• 44:54
  No, I wish I was. Before COVID, when my husband
• 44:57
  was doing more of this consulting, he would travel quite
• 45:01
  often to on-site meetings. Once everyone realized that it's just
• 45:04
  almost as efficient this way, people don't want to spend
• 45:08
  the extra money to fly me and put me up
• 45:11
  in a hotel. I charge more in person than I
• 45:15
  do over Zoom. I'm trying to arrange for some. I've
• 45:18
  been working with some people for so long now. It's
• 45:22
  just weird that I haven't met them in person. So
• 45:25
  I'm trying to set up something for June with a
• 45:29
  bunch of businesses I work with who are all near
• 45:32
  each other so that they can split the cost of
• 45:36
  my travel and maybe I can do some leadership team
• 45:39
  building workshops. But then I get to meet people. I
• 45:43
  miss seeing people live.
• 46:02
  I only work about 20 hours a week. I do
• 46:05
  not work a full week. I've never worked a full
• 46:09
  week since I had my son. I've always made the
• 46:12
  priority that when my kids were little they came first.
• 46:16
  And now I just, life comes first. So I will
• 46:19
  answer an email when it comes in most of the
• 46:23
  time. If I'm busy doing something, I'll look at my
• 46:26
  phone. If it's a quick response, I might do it
• 46:30
  on my phone. I don't have set hours in a
• 46:33
  day. I'll come home from being out with my grandkids
• 46:37
  and I'll sit and do three emails. But I always
• 46:40
  respond and I always respond within 24 hours. And if
• 46:44
  I don't have an answer, I always say, I got
• 46:47
  your email. Not quite sure how I want to respond,
• 46:51
  just want you to know I got it.
• 47:07
  That's pretty sophisticated. Do you have a to-do list and
• 47:10
  where does that live? Mental. All mental.
• 47:15
  I did buy a Remarkable recently though because I take
• 47:18
  notes like this. Like it's terrible because but I'm a
• 47:22
  very visual person. So I'll be like, on the corner
• 47:25
  of that envelope. My husband once organized my desk. I'm
• 47:29
  like - the envelope that was under the corner of
• 47:32
  the lamp, you know, like I could see it. But
• 47:36
  I was throwing stuff away all the time and wasting
• 47:39
  paper. So I finally bought a Remarkable to write notes
• 47:43
  when I'm doing a session. But in terms of my
• 47:46
  to-do list, it's either my calendar or it's in my
• 47:50
  brain. I should probably organize outside my brain. I just
• 47:53
  don't know how to do that yet.
• 48:38
  There are not.
• 48:39
  Okay. Do you have any funky lighting setup where you've
• 48:42
  got something on a ladder or anything?
• 48:48
  Nope, I have a lamp next to my desk. I
• 48:51
  always keep the overhead off because it's better. I have
• 48:55
  a window in front of me that I can open
• 48:58
  and shut. I have a ton of manipulatives. I have
• 49:02
  an emery board because it's rough. I play with a
• 49:05
  pen. I have those kinds of things because moving my
• 49:09
  hands regulates my own nervous system. So I have that
• 49:12
  kind of stuff. A lot of manipulatives. I doodle a
• 49:16
  lot, so I'm a doodler.
• 49:35
  No. I am having the best time, by the way.
• 49:38
  I just want you to know, this is really fun.
• 49:52
  I know, I know. Do I thank people for quick
• 49:55
  replies? Yes, I always do