Latest / Wicked Radio with Bill Adams / 9-9: Is That One Lindsay Clancy Juror A National Hero?

Transcript

9-9: Is That One Lindsay Clancy Juror A National Hero? · Wicked Radio with Bill Adams

0:04
Speaker 1: I know, it seems like every couple of years, maybe
0:06
Speaker 1: even a couple of times a year, we have some
0:08
Speaker 1: sort of a trial of the century, right, where everybody's talking,
0:11
Speaker 1: it's big national headlines, it's the one they decide to
0:14
Speaker 1: focus on, and this Lindsay Clancy trial, you know the
0:18
Speaker 1: whole story, the suburban Massachusetts mom that killed her three kids,
0:21
Speaker 1: I hate to even gloss over that, it's that horrific,
0:23
Speaker 1: but that's the story, she killed her three kids, tried
0:25
Speaker 1: to get out of it, tried to jump out of
0:26
Speaker 1: the window, claimed insanity, was definitely over-medicated with the psychotic drugs,
0:31
Speaker 1: there's no doubt about that, but now, now, The jurors
0:35
Speaker 1: are talking. And oh boy, is this a completely different story.
0:41
Speaker 2: I don't know.
0:41
Speaker 1: So as you may or may not know now, there
0:44
Speaker 1: was one holdout, a male juror who was basically outed
0:47
Speaker 1: by this defense attorney, Kevin Rennington. Basically outed. Identified everything
0:52
Speaker 1: but the guy's name. So he's a target. So he's
0:54
Speaker 1: not talking because he's probably had to leave his state,
0:57
Speaker 1: most likely. But the other jurors are talking, mostly all women.
1:03
Speaker 1: And there's, I think, something very, very wrong. I don't
1:05
Speaker 1: know how this guy held out against that, but they
1:07
Speaker 1: were ready to, as we learn from them talking out now,
1:10
Speaker 1: this is the most chilling thing of all, they were
1:12
Speaker 1: ready to acquit this mom that killed her kids on
1:16
Speaker 1: day one. And they admitted it on day one without
1:19
Speaker 1: hearing anything else. And it's frightening. It's scary. Is this
1:25
Speaker 1: one holdout juror a national hero? Is it what he faced?
1:29
Speaker 1: 38 total hours of deliberation had to face that? And
1:32
Speaker 1: they just basically turned on them. I'm saying yes in
1:35
Speaker 1: my own personal opinion. You're going to have to make
1:37
Speaker 1: your own decision. But when you hear these women talk,
1:43
Speaker 1: there's something wrong. There's something very wrong because this was
1:45
Speaker 1: a woman. They completely, there's a heartlessness and a coldness
1:50
Speaker 1: in their voices and in their eyes where they just
1:54
Speaker 1: did not think about these kids at all, where they
1:56
Speaker 1: wanted something. And in this trial, just as a setup here,
1:58
Speaker 1: it was never a question that she killed her kids.
2:00
Speaker 1: That was confirmed. It was whether or not she, She'll
2:02
Speaker 1: pay a penalty for it because they tried to say
2:04
Speaker 1: it was postpartum. They tried to say it was hormonal.
2:06
Speaker 1: They tried to say it was all the other drugs.
2:08
Speaker 1: What's chilling is the attitude of these jurors that we'll
2:10
Speaker 1: get to here in a second. I don't know why
2:12
Speaker 1: jurors speak now after trials. Maybe they're all trying to
2:14
Speaker 1: write books. I have no idea. This is one case
2:17
Speaker 1: where I'm glad they are because now we finally get
2:18
Speaker 1: an idea of what actually was going on in that
2:20
Speaker 1: deliberation room. To me personally, my opinion, it's frightening as hell. Anyway,
2:24
Speaker 1: we'll get into it. Thanks for finding me. Wicked Radio
2:26
Speaker 1: live stream and replay on X and YouTube and Facebook.
2:29
Speaker 1: And the podcast episode audio version completely uploaded, totally, wherever
2:34
Speaker 1: you like to get your audio podcasts. Let's get right
2:36
Speaker 1: to it. Local Boston media interviewed these women in suburban Boston,
2:43
Speaker 1: very close to the Salem witch trials a couple of
2:44
Speaker 1: hundred years ago, but that's neither here nor there. It's
2:47
Speaker 1: like a reverse order of that. Here's the first lady
2:50
Speaker 1: that was on the jury who wanted to talk, and
2:52
Speaker 1: they all sat down. Down with three of them, and
2:54
Speaker 1: they talked, and there was one that didn't want to
2:56
Speaker 1: be identified. And like I said, the one male holdout
2:59
Speaker 1: juror who they all just turned on, and we know
3:03
Speaker 1: that now because of what they say about him here.
3:06
Speaker 1: Out of all the clips I'm going to play for you,
3:08
Speaker 1: this to me was the most chilling. Here's, I don't
3:10
Speaker 1: know what juror number she was, but I'm going to
3:12
Speaker 1: call her juror number one, talking about the one holdout juror.
3:15
Speaker 1: I don't know how he did it. I thank God
3:16
Speaker 1: he did.
3:17
Speaker 3: From Judge Sullivan's instruction. He actually said one day in
3:21
Speaker 3: the end, well, why don't we have the judge come
3:23
Speaker 3: in and read it again? And we were like, no.
3:25
Speaker 3: We have it in front of us. We don't need that.
3:30
Speaker 3: And we would highlight it. And, you know, so-and-so, this
3:34
Speaker 3: is the definition of reasonable. But he had the hardest
3:38
Speaker 3: time getting off the fact that Lindsay viciously killed her children.
3:43
Speaker 1: That's a real clip. She can't understand. She had the
3:47
Speaker 1: hardest time getting over the fact that Lindsay viciously killed
3:50
Speaker 1: her children. Yeah, yeah, he did. You know why? Because
3:55
Speaker 1: obviously that one holdout juror, our national hero in our story,
3:58
Speaker 1: had to get more information on this and wanted to
4:01
Speaker 1: look at it again and again and again. And she
4:03
Speaker 1: said it right that no, no, we have enough. No,
4:06
Speaker 1: we have enough. It was postpartum or in her. It
4:08
Speaker 1: was postpartum. He's fine. She's fine. It's OK. She actually
4:13
Speaker 1: said he had a hard time getting over the fact
4:15
Speaker 1: that she viciously murdered her kids. That's what this guy
4:18
Speaker 1: was dealing with, first of all. There you have it
4:21
Speaker 1: right there. And then some of the other jurors talked
4:23
Speaker 1: about this. And everything you may have suspected about what
4:28
Speaker 1: was going on in that jury room, and they were
4:29
Speaker 1: all upset. They were all upset. And by the way,
4:32
Speaker 1: the end result was, because it was a mistrial because
4:34
Speaker 1: of that one holdout, she has to stay in the
4:36
Speaker 1: nervous hospital in Tewksbury, Massachusetts for a while. By the way,
4:40
Speaker 1: side note. this is where the prosecution really screwed up
4:43
Speaker 1: is that they didn't give them an option to don't
4:45
Speaker 1: ever let her get out, ever let her get out
4:49
Speaker 1: again and, and start another family, which was a real
4:53
Speaker 1: possibility here and kill more kids. They never gave him
4:57
Speaker 1: an option to say that. Well, one option is to
5:00
Speaker 1: just say that she can stay in the mental hospital forever.
5:02
Speaker 1: And that's, you know, then reasonable balance there. Here's more
5:06
Speaker 1: jurors talking, uh, about this entire deal and what they
5:11
Speaker 1: thought about it, what they thought about the entire issue,
5:17
Speaker 1: all of it. To me, it's chilling.
5:19
Speaker 4: The nurses, he tried to ask a question about the medications,
5:25
Speaker 4: and we went back to the report from South Shore Hospital.
5:30
Speaker 4: We had the toxicology report. We could see exactly the amounts.
5:34
Speaker 4: The nurses in the room spoke to that and talked
5:38
Speaker 4: to that.
5:39
Speaker 3: There were nurses on the jury. Yes.
5:42
Speaker 1: Hold on. Okay, fine. There's nurses on the jury. That's great.
5:47
Speaker 1: When is it a legal precedent for nurses on the
5:49
Speaker 1: jury to become experts in the case? There's nurses on
5:54
Speaker 1: the jury. Let's forward it over to them, and they'll
5:57
Speaker 1: decide what was right and what was wrong in the
5:58
Speaker 1: toxicology report. Not the experts on the stand. The nurses
6:02
Speaker 1: in the jury room were the experts on this all
6:04
Speaker 1: of a sudden and decided. So this guy or anybody
6:06
Speaker 1: else that had any other opinion of this, it just
6:08
Speaker 1: didn't matter apparently.
6:11
Speaker 3: Okay.
6:11
Speaker 1: What we're hearing from... One other juror that she didn't
6:14
Speaker 1: want to be identified, good for her, but she did
6:16
Speaker 1: speak out, and this is by telephone. Here's another chilling
6:19
Speaker 1: part of this entire case of what went on in
6:21
Speaker 1: that room. They were ready to acquit, according to her,
6:25
Speaker 1: to this one, on day one, on hour one, without
6:28
Speaker 1: hearing anything else. This is why they were so obstinate
6:30
Speaker 1: in saying, no, we don't need to hear anything else.
6:33
Speaker 1: This is why they were browbeating this guy for 38
6:35
Speaker 1: hours of deliberation. Listen to what she says. The majority
6:39
Speaker 1: of the room was trying to kind of sway that
6:40
Speaker 1: person from the very beginning. So where did you come
6:44
Speaker 1: down from the very beginning? Like, what was your vote?
6:48
Speaker 2: So originally I felt as though she was guilty and she.
6:53
Speaker 1: Was criminally responsible for it. And maybe I still believe
6:58
Speaker 1: that in a certain way. Day one, hour one. They
7:07
Speaker 1: were ready to, they knew the details of the case.
7:09
Speaker 1: They read the opening statements and they were ready to go. Oh,
7:11
Speaker 1: it's fine. No, she was postpartum and she was drugged
7:13
Speaker 1: up and she killed a kid. The thing that gets
7:15
Speaker 1: most people in the country outraged by this is the coldness,
7:18
Speaker 1: how they overlooked completely the fact that she killed her kid.
7:21
Speaker 1: That didn't matter. That didn't matter anymore. You know, not whatsoever. Obviously,
7:27
Speaker 1: what this one juror was looking at was, wanted to
7:30
Speaker 1: look at the timeline, wanted to look at her Google searches, which,
7:34
Speaker 1: by the way, was a reveal that she Googled how
7:37
Speaker 1: long it would take her kids to die. He was
7:40
Speaker 1: stuck on that and they weren't having it. She Googled
7:42
Speaker 1: and wanted to look out and looked on Apple Maps
7:46
Speaker 1: how long it would take her husband to get home
7:47
Speaker 1: because she was obviously aware enough of that. It was
7:51
Speaker 1: conscious enough of that to be able to make a
7:54
Speaker 1: conscious decision despite the hormonal postpartum depression, despite all the
7:58
Speaker 1: psychotic drugs that she was on. And that's a whole
8:00
Speaker 1: other issue there. She was in her right mind to
8:03
Speaker 1: be able to do that. And that's all this guy
8:05
Speaker 1: wanted to do. was get more facts in the case,
8:07
Speaker 1: and they wouldn't have it. And according to that juror
8:10
Speaker 1: there that was on the phone in the interview and
8:13
Speaker 1: didn't want to be identified, he said they were on
8:16
Speaker 1: him to try to swing him from not hour one,
8:18
Speaker 1: from day one. There's something very wrong here. And in
8:23
Speaker 1: my personal opinion, I think there's something very wrong with
8:26
Speaker 1: this demographic. There's also something very wrong with the Massachusetts
8:29
Speaker 1: District Attorney's Office, where these prosecutors weren't able to find
8:33
Speaker 1: anybody to put on a jury pool that weren't of
8:36
Speaker 1: this same mindset. Had a couple of nurses there. You
8:38
Speaker 1: had white, suburban, older, boomer women, and I'm sorry, that's
8:42
Speaker 1: the main demographic, that will defend another woman no matter
8:46
Speaker 1: what happens, that they weren't able to actually give them
8:49
Speaker 1: an option to keep her in a mental hospital forever
8:51
Speaker 1: or go through the jury selection process enough to actually give,
8:58
Speaker 1: you know, the law a fair chance here. And then
9:02
Speaker 1: you have this guy. Now, also, speaking out is this
9:06
Speaker 1: lawyer that they talk about here, Kevin Reddington. Now, he
9:09
Speaker 1: went on Good Morning America yesterday, and he would like
9:11
Speaker 1: a pardon for Lindsey Clancy. So I don't know, maybe
9:14
Speaker 1: in legal terms, this speaks to the desperation of the case.
9:17
Speaker 1: They know that when the retrial happens, it's not going
9:19
Speaker 1: to go their way. I don't know. Oh, and by
9:23
Speaker 1: the way, here's another fail on the Massachusetts DA's part.
9:26
Speaker 1: This jury wasn't sequestered. Like, good luck finding a jury
9:31
Speaker 1: now in a retrial, if it goes to that point,
9:33
Speaker 1: of people who haven't heard of this case. Like I said,
9:35
Speaker 1: it was the latest, most recent trial of the century here. Everybody,
9:40
Speaker 1: it didn't matter whether you're in New England or not,
9:42
Speaker 1: everybody understands this case, and it's made national headlines now
9:45
Speaker 1: for weeks. They weren't sequestered. Go home. Don't talk to
9:49
Speaker 1: anybody about the case. Just go back. Oh, okay. Okay, right.
9:53
Speaker 3: Right.
9:53
Speaker 1: Okay, sure. But then you got this attorney, Kevin Rennington.
9:56
Speaker 1: He goes on Good Morning America yesterday, and he asked
9:59
Speaker 1: President Trump for a specific request. What's next for Lindsey?
10:03
Speaker 2: I'd like to say that perhaps Donald Trump, who felt
10:07
Speaker 2: compelled to speak out about this case, may very well, Mr. President,
10:11
Speaker 2: I would hope that you would consider this young lady,
10:14
Speaker 2: the type of person she is, what she's been through,
10:18
Speaker 2: and consider her pardoned.
10:21
Speaker 1: How's that going to go, by the way? You want
10:22
Speaker 1: him to speak out about the case to you? Would
10:24
Speaker 1: you would you like a pardon from President Trump? Listen, Kev,
10:27
Speaker 1: that will never, ever, ever, ever happen. I think briefly
10:31
Speaker 1: in one of those press scrums, they did ask Trump
10:33
Speaker 1: about it. And he said something to the effect of
10:35
Speaker 1: she killed her kids, tell the person you got to
10:37
Speaker 1: go to jail, whatever. You know, one of those things,
10:38
Speaker 1: one of those quick off Trump statements. He's got other
10:40
Speaker 1: things to worry about. He's dealing with the economy, the midterms,
10:43
Speaker 1: you know, Iran and all that other stuff going on.
10:46
Speaker 1: Those the basic surface level details of this. But maybe
10:50
Speaker 1: that's all they need. But that guy right there was
10:53
Speaker 1: a hero to these other crazy ladies in the room.
10:56
Speaker 1: This is what the holdout had to deal with. He
10:59
Speaker 1: was a charming, charming personality in the room. And he
11:06
Speaker 1: just had those ladies who wanted to quit Lindsey Clancy
11:11
Speaker 1: from day one eaten out of his hand. I mean,
11:12
Speaker 1: listen to how they just glossed over it yesterday. And
11:15
Speaker 1: they just were talking about how unbelievably charming he was.
11:20
Speaker 3: His demeanor was funny.
11:24
Speaker 4: And there was one time, whatever he said, I don't know,
11:26
Speaker 4: but I went.
11:30
Speaker 4: Because he was entertaining.
11:35
Speaker 1: Okay, I changed my mind. The first clip where the
11:39
Speaker 1: first lady who just completely glossed over the fact that
11:41
Speaker 1: she killed her three kids, didn't care about that one bit,
11:45
Speaker 1: I thought that was the scariest part of this entire
11:48
Speaker 1: jury scene. No, it's that one. This lady cracking up about, again,
11:53
Speaker 1: this is what's wrong with them. This is why they
11:56
Speaker 1: were on the jury from the defense team. That Kevin Rennington,
11:58
Speaker 1: smart lawyer, he knew to put women on there that
12:02
Speaker 1: would acquit another woman no matter what. No matter what
12:06
Speaker 1: would happen. That's why. And she's sitting there talking about
12:09
Speaker 1: and looking back on a murder trial. And she's giggling
12:14
Speaker 1: about it. This is just frightening. And I'll go back
12:18
Speaker 1: to the original question. Now, we all had our opinions.
12:21
Speaker 1: We tried to guess what happened in the jury room,
12:22
Speaker 1: and you might have been following this case, and you
12:24
Speaker 1: heard that it went back for deliberations again and again
12:27
Speaker 1: and again, and the judge kept sending them instructions about
12:29
Speaker 1: what reasonable doubt is. 38 hours of deliberations, this one
12:34
Speaker 1: guy held out. And if he didn't hold out, keep
12:37
Speaker 1: this in mind, if you feel for Lindsay Clancy, despite
12:40
Speaker 1: what she did, if you're still holding on to, it
12:43
Speaker 1: was the chemicals in the drugs they gave her, it
12:45
Speaker 1: was the postpartum depression, it was this, it was everything,
12:48
Speaker 1: he's still holding on to that. Keep this in mind.
12:51
Speaker 1: If she had been acquitted on day one, hour one,
12:55
Speaker 1: like those cackling women, giggling women in that room wanted,
12:58
Speaker 1: the so-called nurses experts, because that's their background, day one,
13:01
Speaker 1: hour one, she'd be free right now to start another
13:04
Speaker 1: family and have more kids. Maybe that's the deciding factor
13:07
Speaker 1: in how you feel about this entire thing. How this guy,
13:10
Speaker 1: whoever he is, and I hope we don't ever find
13:12
Speaker 1: out what his name is, held out against this for
13:15
Speaker 1: 38 in total hours of deliberation. I will never understand.
13:19
Speaker 1: That's why I'm calling this.
13:27
Speaker 1: Very few people could listen to that and hold out
13:31
Speaker 1: the entire time.
13:33
Speaker 2: I don't know.
13:33
Speaker 1: But the whole thing is just a tragedy. But they're
13:35
Speaker 1: glossing over the tragedy. And now they're more upset that
13:37
Speaker 1: their instructions weren't heard.
13:39
Speaker 2: Sick.
13:39
Speaker 1: Sick thing. Until the next trial of the century comes up,
13:42
Speaker 1: which will probably be in a couple of weeks. Who
13:43
Speaker 1: the heck knows? Unbelievable. But I will tell you this.
13:46
Speaker 1: Maybe here's the takeaway. no matter how you feel about this,
13:50
Speaker 1: this is inarguable. That one juror, the holdout, held true
13:55
Speaker 1: to his convictions and would not let them browbeat him
13:58
Speaker 1: into something else he wanted to look at. And they
14:01
Speaker 1: chastised him for wanting to go back and look at
14:03
Speaker 1: the instructions again and make sure he had all his
14:05
Speaker 1: ducks in a row. And they called him the demon
14:07
Speaker 1: for that. They called him the bad guy for that
14:09
Speaker 1: because he wanted to do it. No matter how you
14:11
Speaker 1: feel about this case, whether you think she should be
14:13
Speaker 1: acquitted or not, whether you feel for those kids that
14:17
Speaker 1: she murdered, in her own house or not, one thing
14:20
Speaker 1: is true and one thing only we can take away.
14:23
Speaker 1: If you have convictions, it's worth it to be stubborn
14:26
Speaker 1: and to hold on to them and don't let anybody
14:28
Speaker 1: knock you off of it, no matter how you feel
14:29
Speaker 1: about this. If that guy hadn't have been stubborn, probably some,
14:34
Speaker 1: probably some stubborn suburban mass asshole, you know, which gets
14:39
Speaker 1: such a bad reputation throughout the country, but in this case,
14:42
Speaker 1: it turned out to be great. No matter how you feel,
14:44
Speaker 1: hold on to your convictions and don't let them and
14:47
Speaker 1: get more information. Don't let them browbeat you into anything else,
14:50
Speaker 1: because that guy, I don't know how he did it,
14:53
Speaker 1: but he did. All right, it's midweek already, which is great.
14:56
Speaker 1: That's what's great about a short holiday week. Seems like
14:58
Speaker 1: we're closer to Friday, and we are. Thanks for finding
15:00
Speaker 1: Wicked Radio, the live stream, and then the replay at X.
15:03
Speaker 1: YouTube and Facebook, audio podcast, full version, uploaded very shortly
15:06
Speaker 1: in just a couple of minutes, the audio listening version
15:09
Speaker 1: to all your favorite podcast platforms, whether that's Apple or
15:12
Speaker 1: iHeart or Spotify or Spreaker or wherever you get them.
15:15
Speaker 1: It's right there, and do whatever they ask you to do. Follow, download, share, whatever,
15:18
Speaker 1: and you have it. I thank you so much. All right,
15:20
Speaker 1: make it a wicked awesome Wednesday. We'll talk to you tomorrow.