Latest / Boozy Banter with Friends / Investigating the Amityville Horror, Part 2

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Investigating the Amityville Horror, Part 2 · Boozy Banter with Friends

• 0:08
  Leyla Zmeskal: Hello and welcome to Boozy Banter with Friends.
• 0:12
  Trisha Smith: Join us this week as we explore the supernatural
• 0:16
  Leyla Zmeskal: with the little sass,
• 0:17
  Trisha Smith: the unexplained,
• 0:19
  Leyla Zmeskal: and a side of snark,
• 0:20
  Trisha Smith: and tales of other worldly shenanigans.
• 0:23
  Leyla Zmeskal: Grab your favorite spirit and join me, Leyla,
• 0:26
  Trisha Smith: And me, Trisha, and meet us on the other side.
• 0:37
  Leyla Zmeskal: Hello.
• 0:39
  Trisha Smith: Hello.
• 0:40
  Leyla Zmeskal: How are you?
• 0:41
  Trisha Smith: I am well.
• 0:42
  Leyla Zmeskal: Good.
• 0:43
  Trisha Smith: We're back.
• 0:51
  Leyla Zmeskal: We are. Hey, Trisha.
• 0:53
  Trisha Smith: Yes, ma'am?
• 0:54
  Leyla Zmeskal: Why does Waldo only wear stripes?
• 0:58
  Trisha Smith: I don't know.
• 1:00
  Leyla Zmeskal: Because he doesn't want to be spotted.
• 1:06
  Trisha Smith: Okay. That's a good one.
• 1:11
  Leyla Zmeskal: Let's start it off, so I don't forget. I know one day, I will probably get so involved in a story that I may forget.
• 1:20
  Trisha Smith: Well, I'm not going to help you remember.
• 1:22
  Leyla Zmeskal: Oh, I know you won't.
• 1:23
  Trisha Smith: Just know that in advance.
• 1:25
  Leyla Zmeskal: I know you won't, and then we can like, have a board. It'd be like, Trisha has one point for her.
• 1:32
  Trisha Smith: Fifteen points for Leyla.
• 1:34
  Leyla Zmeskal: So far. I'm excited for today.
• 1:39
  Trisha Smith: Yes. Part two.
• 1:41
  Leyla Zmeskal: Part two of the Amityville.
• 1:44
  Trisha Smith: Yes.
• 1:45
  Leyla Zmeskal: I am so looking forward to this.
• 1:47
  Trisha Smith: This gets into the actual haunting part of the story, because we covered the trial.
• 1:54
  Leyla Zmeskal: Yes.
• 1:55
  Trisha Smith: And the murders.
• 1:56
  Trisha Smith: So now we're on to the haunting. But first,
• 1:56
  Leyla Zmeskal: Yes.
• 2:00
  Leyla Zmeskal: Oh, my goodness.
• 2:02
  Trisha Smith: Tomorrow is St.
• 2:02
  Trisha Smith: Patrick's Day.
• 2:05
  Leyla Zmeskal: Happy early St.
• 2:05
  Leyla Zmeskal: Patrick's day.
• 2:07
  Trisha Smith: Yes. And we brought back a favorite.
• 2:10
  Leyla Zmeskal: Oh my goodness.
• 2:11
  Trisha Smith: Yeah. It's such a good one. So last year, we had three separate drinks.
• 2:18
  Leyla Zmeskal: Yes.
• 2:19
  Trisha Smith: And this year, we're just having the one.
• 2:22
  Leyla Zmeskal: Yeah.
• 2:22
  Trisha Smith: And I don't know why we don't have it more often.
• 2:26
  Leyla Zmeskal: I don't know why either.
• 2:27
  Trisha Smith: It's the Vanilla Irish Whiskey mule.
• 2:31
  Leyla Zmeskal: So good.
• 2:32
  Trisha Smith: It's that vanilla simple syrup.
• 2:34
  Leyla Zmeskal: Yes, that plays a big role in it. But also the Jameson plays very well in it.
• 2:41
  Trisha Smith: It goes so well with
• 2:43
  Leyla Zmeskal: everything
• 2:44
  Trisha Smith: with the vanilla.
• 2:45
  Leyla Zmeskal: It's so easy.
• 2:45
  Leyla Zmeskal: It's an easy, easy drink.
• 2:48
  Trisha Smith: A little bit of Jamison's, a little bit of vanilla simple syrup. And then you top it off, we used Fevertree ginger ale, which is always so good. And Voila.
• 2:58
  Leyla Zmeskal: There you go.
• 2:58
  Leyla Zmeskal: Tasty. Delicious.
• 3:01
  Trisha Smith: Yeah, too easy.
• 3:01
  Trisha Smith: The way it goes down.
• 3:05
  Leyla Zmeskal: If you're just starting off on St. Patrick's Day drinking, this would be a good one to start off with.
• 3:10
  Trisha Smith: Yeah.
• 3:11
  Leyla Zmeskal: Because it is so easy to drink. You know, it's just light, refreshing, goes down easy. So if you're wanting to dip your toe into early day drinking on St. Patrick's Day, this would be a good one to do.
• 3:23
  Trisha Smith: Yes. Yes. It's a nice one.
• 3:25
  Leyla Zmeskal: I like it. I'm so excited for it. And excited for this story.
• 3:29
  Trisha Smith: Well, we're gonna jump right in, because I mean,
• 3:30
  Leyla Zmeskal: I know because my drinks half gone so we'll have to refill soon.
• 3:35
  Trisha Smith: I mean, it's just there's a lot to cover. And there's a lot to discuss about it. Because
• 3:40
  Leyla Zmeskal: Oh, wow. Yeah.
• 3:41
  Trisha Smith: So so much going on with this story. You know?
• 3:45
  Leyla Zmeskal: Yes.
• 3:46
  Trisha Smith: I didn't, I would have never guessed. I mean, I've watched the Amityville Horror for years. I've heard about it a lot. And you just don't realize there's so much to the story.
• 3:56
  Leyla Zmeskal: Oh, yeah.
• 3:57
  Trisha Smith: And so we're just gonna jump right in.
• 3:59
  Leyla Zmeskal: Let's do it.
• 3:59
  Trisha Smith: All right. Last week, I told you about Ronald Butch DeFeo.
• 4:05
  Leyla Zmeskal: Yep.
• 4:05
  Trisha Smith: And how he murdered his family and then tried to blame his sister, and just so much.
• 4:12
  Leyla Zmeskal: That was a lot.
• 4:13
  Trisha Smith: Yeah. And we just sorta
• 4:13
  Leyla Zmeskal: And there were a lot of questions there too.
• 4:15
  Trisha Smith: There were a lot of questions, that were, we're going to answer today.
• 4:20
  Leyla Zmeskal: Oh, good.
• 4:20
  Trisha Smith: You know, that kind of evolved from the trial.
• 4:23
  Leyla Zmeskal: Okay.
• 4:24
  Trisha Smith: About his attorney and all of that. But we kind of touched on how it was his insanity plea, where he claimed that he heard voices in the house that told him to murder his family that kind of jumped started the whole Amityville franchise The Amityville Horror was written by Jay Anson and came out in 1977. And the book is really what started the whole Amityville Horror franchise. And it's based on the true, true
• 5:02
  Leyla Zmeskal: True, air quotes?
• 5:03
  Trisha Smith: story, yeah, of the Lutz family and the 28 days that they occupied the home located at 112 Ocean Avenue. So here's a quick recap of their story. Like, the Lutz's story.
• 5:16
  Trisha Smith: One year after the murders, in December of 1975, George and Kathy Lutz, along with their three children, purchased the home for $80,000, which was a steal due to the homes recent We get some fun facts.
• 5:31
  Trisha Smith: history. A couple of fun facts, though.
• 5:38
  Trisha Smith: Number one. I did not know this.
• 5:38
  Trisha Smith: Most people don't know this, I'm sure. But most of the DeFeo family's furniture was included in the sale of the home.
• 5:49
  Leyla Zmeskal: Oh, really?
• 5:51
  Trisha Smith: Yeah. It's said that even the DeFeo's bed frames, with new mattresses, of course.
• 5:59
  Leyla Zmeskal: I would hope so because they're bloodied.
• 6:01
  Trisha Smith: But all of the bed frames, they say, were still used by the Lutz family. Even though George Lutz denies this, there are people, there are people who say that
• 6:13
  Leyla Zmeskal: No, it's it's true.
• 6:14
  Trisha Smith: They, and that's another reason why they didn't have regrets about leaving things behind when they fled the home, didn't really
• 6:20
  Leyla Zmeskal: That's really interesting, because a lot of people are like, how could they just leave all their belongings
• 6:24
  Trisha Smith: Right.
• 6:25
  Leyla Zmeskal: Because they didn't, it wasn't really theirs.
• 6:27
  Trisha Smith: Yeah, I mean, they were all killed in their beds.
• 6:29
  Trisha Smith: So that's weird. Anyways, and then Fun Fact number two, after the Lutz family fled, the home went into foreclosure and sold for only $55,000.
• 6:43
  Leyla Zmeskal: Okay.
• 6:45
  Trisha Smith: We were talking about like fluctuating prices that are reported and that is why. And a bonus Fun Fact, the exterior shots of the home for the 1979 movie are actually of a 1920s home at 18 Brooks Road in Toms River, New Jersey.
• 7:04
  Leyla Zmeskal: Oh.
• 7:06
  Trisha Smith: The two quarter round windows that are in the attic were added to the home just for the movie.
• 7:12
  Leyla Zmeskal: No.
• 7:12
  Trisha Smith: So the house in the movie is not the actual house on Ocean Avenue.
• 7:18
  Leyla Zmeskal: Wow.
• 7:19
  Trisha Smith: Isn't that interesting? I didn't know that either.
• 7:20
  Leyla Zmeskal: That's very interesting.
• 7:21
  Trisha Smith: Right. I'm sure it's out there, if you're like an avid movie, history buff type person. That's not me.
• 7:28
  Leyla Zmeskal: Not me.
• 7:29
  Trisha Smith: But I thought that was interesting to know. So some of the paranormal activity that the Lutz family claimed happened in the home, which we'll go over again later. This is just their version of events,
• 7:42
  Leyla Zmeskal: Okay, okay.
• 7:43
  Trisha Smith: Included, George consistently waking up at 3:15 in the morning, supposedly the time that Butch DeFeo killed his family.
• 7:51
  Leyla Zmeskal: Okay.
• 7:52
  Trisha Smith: Some sort of slime oozing out of the walls and the locks and the doors. Doors opening and closing on their own. A spirit yelling "get out" to a visiting priest.
• 8:07
  Leyla Zmeskal: Get out.
• 8:09
  Trisha Smith: Right. An image of a demonic pig with glowing red eyes. And a room full of flies in what was once the younger DeFeol boys room.
• 8:21
  Leyla Zmeskal: Okay.
• 8:21
  Trisha Smith: Okay?
• 8:22
  Leyla Zmeskal: Okay.
• 8:22
  Trisha Smith: You saw a lot of that in the movie.
• 8:24
  Leyla Zmeskal: Yeah. Especially in the the 1970 version.
• 8:27
  Trisha Smith: Yes. So after all of the above, the family couldn't take it anymore, and fled the home in the middle of the night on January 13 1976, leaving all of their possessions behind.
• 8:39
  Leyla Zmeskal: Which we know that wasn't really entirely all theirs.
• 8:42
  Trisha Smith: Right. Now we know.
• 8:44
  Leyla Zmeskal: There was no sentimental value.
• 8:46
  Trisha Smith: From the beginning, there was a fair amount of skepticism. You know, people are, hmm, I don't know.
• 8:54
  Trisha Smith: But it was a scary story. And scary was having a really big moment in the mid to late 70s. I mean, The Exorcist,
• 9:01
  Leyla Zmeskal: We know about that.
• 9:02
  Trisha Smith: Yeah, Halloween, Friday the 13th. And there was a lot going on at the time, a lot of uncertainty because of, with the political climate, because of Watergate, the Vietnam War, the energy crisis. People just didn't know what to believe. And they just needed a distraction.
• 9:16
  Trisha Smith: So it was the perfect storm to create a haunted house. Perfect.
• 9:21
  Trisha Smith: But there were too many glaring inconsistencies with their story, right off the bat. The easiest to debunk was the murders weren't committed at
• 9:34
  3: 15. Butch DeFeo confessed to, or, you know, he gave his own timeline of what was, which was nowhere
• 9:42
  Leyla Zmeskal: around 3: 15am.
• 9:43
  Trisha Smith: So I don't know if that was added for dramatic flair?
• 9:48
  Leyla Zmeskal: You know, they say around 3am is the time, that you know.
• 9:51
  Trisha Smith: Yeah, I've heard that too. But obviously it was easy to prove false because of Butch's confession. In another part of the book, an unseen force rips their front door open and off the hinges, prompting George Lutz to call the police.
• 10:06
  Trisha Smith: But police records show no calls from the home at any time during their 28 day stay. Another one that you would think somebody would have been like, maybe we shouldn't put that in because
• 10:19
  Leyla Zmeskal: it's for flare.
• 10:20
  Trisha Smith: Yeah, the police are gonna be like, uh-uh.
• 10:24
  Trisha Smith: Anyways, the other one is a claim from the family that they found cloven hoof prints in the snow around the house. Mmmm. But there wasn't any snowfall in the time period that they lived in the home. Again,
• 10:40
  Leyla Zmeskal: right.
• 10:41
  Trisha Smith: Small facts, people, small facts.
• 10:43
  Leyla Zmeskal: Was there, in the movie? Was there ever snow in the movie, in the 70s version?
• 10:48
  Trisha Smith: No.
• 10:48
  Leyla Zmeskal: I don't I don't ever remember that. That's probably why they didn't add that.
• 10:52
  Trisha Smith: It was is in the book.
• 10:53
  Leyla Zmeskal: Okay.
• 10:54
  Trisha Smith: So but people you know, were starting to question their story hard because nothing was adding up.
• 11:02
  Leyla Zmeskal: There some armchairs, you know, detectives out there.
• 11:05
  Trisha Smith: Nowadays especially. Could you imagine what they had to do to armchair detective back then?
• 11:10
  Leyla Zmeskal: You're canceled.
• 11:11
  Trisha Smith: There, there were no armchair detectives. You had to get out and do stuff.
• 11:15
  Leyla Zmeskal: You actually had to do some detectifying.
• 11:17
  Trisha Smith: Yes. So with all of that, how did the story even begin? According to court filings and various interviews throughout the years, it began when Butch DeFeo's attorney, William Weber, having been approached by a publisher with a large advance for a book deal about the case, decided, that's a great idea.
• 11:47
  Leyla Zmeskal: Oh, okay.
• 11:48
  Trisha Smith: He later said that because he was an assigned public defender for DeFeo, he wanted more than just the publicity.
• 11:57
  Leyla Zmeskal: Of course he did.
• 11:59
  Trisha Smith: Around January of 1976, when the, about when the details were moving in, you know, or had moved in to their home, he supposedly got in touch with them about creating a story based on his client's insanity plea.
• 12:17
  Leyla Zmeskal: So when the Lutz moved in to the DeFeo's home?
• 12:20
  Trisha Smith: Yes.
• 12:21
  Leyla Zmeskal: Okay.
• 12:21
  Trisha Smith: Before they fled.
• 12:21
  Trisha Smith: You know, they fled
• 12:24
  Leyla Zmeskal: Right.
• 12:25
  Trisha Smith: after they had already been approached by the attorney saying we, let's concoct the story then you guys.
• 12:31
  Trisha Smith: That's the story.
• 12:33
  Leyla Zmeskal: Oh.
• 12:34
  Trisha Smith: So initially, he was able to get the Lutz's to join him, and they were all about corroborating this story.
• 12:42
  Leyla Zmeskal: Right, right.
• 12:44
  Trisha Smith: And they even created a book contract, giving himself, his fellow attorneys, and the Lutz's each 12%, and the author, Paul Hoffman, the biggest cut at 40% since he was doing the writing. You know, that's, that's not a lot of money, but you know, it's something. When the Lutz's held their press conference in February of 1976, talking about their experience, it was actually at Weber's Law Offices.
• 13:15
  Leyla Zmeskal: Oh my God.
• 13:16
  Trisha Smith: That's where it was held.
• 13:18
  Leyla Zmeskal: Oh, my God.
• 13:19
  Trisha Smith: So
• 13:21
  Leyla Zmeskal: Coincidence? I think not.
• 13:26
  Trisha Smith: But the Lutz's backed out of the deal, and signed with Jay Anson, because then they got a 50/50 split.
• 13:35
  Leyla Zmeskal: Well, of course they did. They want more money.
• 13:38
  Leyla Zmeskal: Especially when they saw how it was starting
• 13:42
  Trisha Smith: People were reacting to it,
• 13:43
  Leyla Zmeskal: spinning out of control.
• 13:45
  Trisha Smith: I mean, initially, they're getting 12% with Weber.
• 13:47
  Leyla Zmeskal: 12 to 50?
• 13:48
  Trisha Smith: Yeah.
• 13:49
  Leyla Zmeskal: I'd take 50.
• 13:50
  Trisha Smith: According to George Lutz, though, when Weber told him some of the books royalties would be handed over to DeFeo, he says he felt it paid him for the murders. And that was when they decided to back out of the deal and move on without Weber and stop speaking to him altogether.
• 14:09
  Leyla Zmeskal: You know what, I'm okay with creating this whole big lie on this horrible, horrific incidents. But I don't want that guy that actually did it to get any money. That's where I draw the line.
• 14:21
  Trisha Smith: Well, I didn't think you were allowed to profit off a crime.
• 14:25
  Leyla Zmeskal: Who, I don't know, but I just think it's funny that now, all of a sudden, they have some sense of moral, morality about it.
• 14:32
  Trisha Smith: Right.
• 14:32
  Leyla Zmeskal: I'm totally okay with it. Oh, wait, the murderer is gonna get a part of it? I don't know if I can go through with it.
• 14:38
  Trisha Smith: Now I have a conscience. I can't do it.
• 14:40
  Leyla Zmeskal: I don't know. But thanks for giving me the idea of how to become rich and famous.
• 14:46
  Trisha Smith: But them backing out didn't stop the other group from proceeding as planned.
• 14:51
  Leyla Zmeskal: They're like, we're just gonna still try to get our end in.
• 14:53
  Trisha Smith: I mean, they have the story. They made it up.
• 14:55
  Leyla Zmeskal: Exactly.
• 14:55
  Trisha Smith: So Paul Hoffman, the original writer, released two articles based on the story they had concocted. The first was released in July of 1976. So just six months later, and the second was in April of 1977. The book didn't come out till September of 1977.
• 15:14
  Leyla Zmeskal: So he had the jump on it?
• 15:16
  Trisha Smith: Yeah. Well, then the lawsuits started.
• 15:20
  Leyla Zmeskal: Well, of course.
• 15:22
  Trisha Smith: The first was in May of 1977, filed by George and Kathy Lutz against Paul Hoffman, William Weber. Bernard Burton.
• 15:31
  Trisha Smith: Frederick Mars, Good Housekeeping, the New York Sunday News and the Hearst Corporation.
• 15:38
  Leyla Zmeskal: All of you people that broke the story before we were ever able to get our book out that we initially said we will do for you then we decided to back out so we would have more money. How dare you all
• 15:50
  Trisha Smith: They claimed an alleged invasion of privacy, misappropriation of name for trade purposes and negligent infliction of mental distress and sought $4.5 million.
• 16:07
  Leyla Zmeskal: Oh my god.
• 16:09
  Trisha Smith: Right? That's a lot of money for 1977.
• 16:12
  Leyla Zmeskal: That is a lot of money for 1977.
• 16:16
  Trisha Smith: So then Hoffman, Weber, and Burton each placed a counterclaim against the Lutz's for $2 million for fraud and breach of contract. The claims against Good Housekeeping, the New York Sunday News and the Hearst Corporation were dismissed, because there was no invasion of privacy issues.
• 16:35
  Leyla Zmeskal: Not with them.
• 16:35
  Leyla Zmeskal: They're just like,
• 16:37
  Trisha Smith: You did a press conference, people.
• 16:42
  Leyla Zmeskal: Are they fucking kidding? Yeah.
• 16:44
  Trisha Smith: A no nonsense judge named Jack Weinstein was assigned to the cases, and in 1979, he dismissed the Lutz, the Lutz's lawsuit, but allowed the counterclaim to continue.
• 16:59
  Leyla Zmeskal: Oh, shnikies.
• 17:01
  Trisha Smith: But, he said, and I quote, "Based on what I've heard, it appears to me, that to a large extent, the book is a work of fiction, relying in a large part upon the suggestions of Mr. Weber." But he also raised serious ethical questions about Weber and Burton's involvement in all of this, and suggested referring the case to the New York Bar Association. In his words, "There is a very serious ethical question when lawyers become literary agents."
• 17:38
  Leyla Zmeskal: You think?
• 17:39
  Trisha Smith: The very next day, the counterclaim was settled, and the case was dismissed. So convenient.
• 17:46
  Leyla Zmeskal: Sorry, can we just, yeah, let's not get the bar involved. Damn judge had a point.
• 17:57
  Trisha Smith: So according to an interview in People Magazine given by Weber in 1979, he claimed, "I know this book is a hoax. We created this horror story over many bottles of wine". I've heard that quote many times.
• 18:09
  Leyla Zmeskal: I also seen that quote, as well.
• 18:13
  Trisha Smith: In the book I had mentioned in the last episode, The Night the DeFeos Died, author Rick Osuna writes that Geraldine DeFeo, Butch DeFeo's secret wife, requested that Judge Weinstein unseal the remainder of the Lutz versus Weber files. In it, there is a testimony from the Catholic priest from Jay Anson's book, Father Ralph Pecoraro, aka Father Mancuso, from the book,
• 18:44
  Leyla Zmeskal: Ooh, Father Mancuso.
• 18:45
  Trisha Smith: that the events described never happened.
• 18:48
  Trisha Smith: Including the claims by the Lutz's that he knew them prior to their arrival in Amityville, or that anything supernatural affected him. So he was like, nailing, you know, that nail in the coffin. Yeah, so soon after these lawsuits were resolved, there was another from the new owners of the foreclosed Ocean Avenue property.
• 19:12
  Leyla Zmeskal: Well, I'm shocked.
• 19:16
  Trisha Smith: Jim and Barbara Cromartey had moved into the home in April of 1977. Right when the article written by Paul Hoffman titled Our Dream House was Haunted, came out in Good Housekeeping magazine. So their home started being invaded with people, looky loos, you know, coming over and saying we want to know about this haunted house.
• 19:43
  Leyla Zmeskal: Tramp through your begonioas.
• 19:45
  Trisha Smith: And then, five months later, the Amityville Horror was released. The book, and the surge of what they called paranormal tourists began. People would knock on their door at all hours of the day and night. Some were crazy, telling them that they would die. Others claimed to be witches. Many of them were drunk.
• 20:18
  Leyla Zmeskal: Oh god, that was just funny. Some of them were crazy. There's claimed to be witches, but a lot of them are just drunk.
• 20:28
  Trisha Smith: The Cromarty's repeatedly told the press the house wasn't haunted, that they had never seen or felt anything.
• 20:36
  Trisha Smith: And they did this over the course of the decade that they owned the home.
• 20:40
  Leyla Zmeskal: Wow.
• 20:41
  Trisha Smith: Yeah, they had to keep denying that there was anything going on in the house
• 20:45
  Leyla Zmeskal: Jesus Christ, buger off, you fucking drunks.
• 20:48
  Trisha Smith: They eventually sued the Lutz's, Jay Anson, and the publisher, Prentice Hall for$1 million for fraud, hoping to get them to admit that the subtitle of the book, quote, "a true story", wasn't really true.
• 21:01
  Trisha Smith: Because, you know,
• 21:06
  Leyla Zmeskal: It was a hoax.,
• 21:06
  Trisha Smith: if it's a true story, then people are
• 21:09
  Leyla Zmeskal: You don't make it up over wine.
• 21:11
  Trisha Smith: They filed the lawsuit, and eventually settled for an undisclosed six figure amount in 1982. But "a true story" is still on the book.
• 21:21
  Leyla Zmeskal: I hope that six figure was very high.
• 21:25
  Trisha Smith: High. They deserved it after that. But even author, Jay Anson, implied 'true story" might be an exaggeration.
• 21:37
  Trisha Smith: In an interview with People magazine in 1978, he said, "I'm a professional writer, I don't believe and I don't disbelieve, I leave that to the reader". So he's number was
• 21:50
  Leyla Zmeskal: He sounds like a solid five.
• 21:51
  Trisha Smith: He's like, I don't know. Now, in the New York Times, he said, "I believe these people believe that they went through all those things they saw and heard".
• 22:02
  Leyla Zmeskal: That sounds like a to me right there,
• 22:04
  Trisha Smith: RIght. He was never able to explain why there were so many conflicting claims in his book, including the police visits, dealings with the Catholic Church, the unexplained weather, because in 1980, Anson died of a heart attack at the age of 58. So that's why there's not a lot of comments from him concerning the book over the years.
• 22:27
  Leyla Zmeskal: Right.
• 22:27
  Trisha Smith: So another story that surrounds the house has also been clarified through RIc Osuna's website. It states that the Shinnecock Indians had a burial ground or sanitarium where the house stands, but there's no proof that this is true Not even vague stories within the oral history of the native people that lived in the area. While there are burial grounds near the city, there's nothing within the city or on Ocean Avenue specifically. And also the Shinnecock Indians were kind and gentle people, so to imply that they would leave anyone to suffer and die to curse the land is absurd, considering they even showed European settlers how to care for their sick and mentally insane. So the story was that they like built a fence on this property and put all their mentally insane or disabled in there to be exposed to the elements and die.
• 23:21
  Leyla Zmeskal: Oh, that doesn't sound
• 23:22
  Trisha Smith: And called it a sanitarium. I'm like,
• 23:25
  Leyla Zmeskal: yeah, don't believe it.
• 23:26
  Trisha Smith: Yeah, nobody believes it. So where is the Lutz family now?
• 23:31
  Leyla Zmeskal: I wonder.
• 23:32
  Trisha Smith: I wonder.
• 23:33
  Leyla Zmeskal: I always like knowing where they are now.
• 23:35
  Trisha Smith: I know. Well, I was surprised, you know, when I read some of the stuff about the family. So George and Kathy Lutz divorced in 1988.
• 23:45
  Leyla Zmeskal: Okay.
• 23:46
  Trisha Smith: And both have since passed away. Kathy from emphysema in 2004 and George of heart disease in 2006.
• 23:54
  Leyla Zmeskal: Okay.
• 23:55
  Trisha Smith: Missy Lutz was the youngest of the family and was five years old when the family moved into the Amityville home.
• 24:02
  Trisha Smith: And she's never spoken out about the events that occurred there and continues to maintain her privacy today.
• 24:09
  Leyla Zmeskal: She's like, I don't even want to be part of it. .
• 24:12
  Trisha Smith: RIght. So Daniel Lutz is the eldest child and was 10 years old during that Amityville experience. And he's actually spoken out about his experiences in a 2013 documentary called My Amityville Horror, where he maintains the story about the hauntings is true.
• 24:31
  Leyla Zmeskal: Well, I think at 10 years old, he got a lot of attention. So I think that stuck with him throughout the years.
• 24:36
  Trisha Smith: Probably.
• 24:37
  Leyla Zmeskal: So of course, he's going to maintain that story.
• 24:39
  Trisha Smith: But until 2013, until this documentary, he had never spoken about it.
• 24:44
  Leyla Zmeskal: Oh.
• 24:45
  Trisha Smith: At all.
• 24:46
  Leyla Zmeskal: Oh, maybe the money ran out?
• 24:49
  Trisha Smith: I don't know. But I mean, by then George Lutz had passed. So I don't know. Now the middle son, Christopher Quarantino, he now goes by his birth father's last name, he was seven during the haunting and claims that while there were some paranormal events that occurred in the home, such as a dark figure that he saw, most of what occurred in the book was complete fiction.
• 25:17
  Leyla Zmeskal: Okay.
• 25:18
  Trisha Smith: He also says that his stepfather George was obsessed with the occult and believes he invited some type of dark spirit into their home, which is what they were actually experiencing
• 25:30
  Leyla Zmeskal: That I believe.
• 25:31
  Trisha Smith: I mean, everything I've read is that George Lutz was not kind to his stepchildren. So which explains, I mean, it says George and Christopher clashed many times over the events that happened throughout, you know, him growing up and him being an adult. Christopher left the family when he was just 16 years old.
• 25:53
  Leyla Zmeskal: Oh, wow.
• 25:54
  Trisha Smith: Right. So George, at one point, even sued Christopher in 2003, for trademark infringement and fraud,
• 26:04
  Leyla Zmeskal: What?
• 26:05
  Trisha Smith: for saying, you know, for coming out and saying that. There was another Amityville movie in the works, and George didn't want him to, you know, mess it up.
• 26:15
  Leyla Zmeskal: Because he didn't wanna, you know, hurt his little cash cow that he's got going on.
• 26:19
  Trisha Smith: Exactly. So I don't think it was ever settled.
• 26:22
  Trisha Smith: Because then that was in 2003.
• 26:22
  Trisha Smith: And George died in 2006.
• 26:26
  Leyla Zmeskal: Yeah, not much longer.
• 26:27
  Trisha Smith: But Christopher Quarantino has made a life out of his events or, you know, I guess speaking out against the events that happened in the house.
• 26:39
  Leyla Zmeskal: Oh, really?
• 26:40
  Trisha Smith: And, you know, doing interviews about it and talking about what really happened. It wasn't that nothing happened. It just wasn't the way it was portrayed in the book.
• 26:51
  Leyla Zmeskal: I think that was a common theme.
• 26:53
  Trisha Smith: Right. So
• 26:54
  Leyla Zmeskal: I think that's been a common theme.
• 26:56
  Trisha Smith: Which leads us to the Warrens.
• 26:58
  Leyla Zmeskal: Dun dun dun.
• 27:00
  Trisha Smith: Now I know we've talked a lot about them. We were done with them, but they, they do get a little mention here because this is the story that kind of made them famous.
• 27:09
  Leyla Zmeskal: Right.
• 27:09
  Trisha Smith: But like the all the other ones, their involvements pretty limited.
• 27:15
  Leyla Zmeskal: Right.
• 27:16
  Trisha Smith: It's weird that when you pull up the story, you really have to dig to find out how they were attached. Like if you go in and you just Google Amityville Horror, the Warrens don't pop up at all.
• 27:28
  Leyla Zmeskal: Oh, really?
• 27:29
  Trisha Smith: Yeah, they talk about the DeFeos, they talk about the Lutz's, they talk about Weber, they talk about Jay Anson. They do, they, there are very few mentions of the Warrens unless you look for that specifically.
• 27:41
  Leyla Zmeskal: Really?
• 27:42
  Trisha Smith: Yeah.
• 27:42
  Leyla Zmeskal: Okay.
• 27:43
  Trisha Smith: So 20 days after the Lutz's left the Amityville home, Marvin Scott, a local news reporter called Ed and Lorraine to investigate. He had already worked with them on a prior investigation, so he already knew them.
• 27:58
  Leyla Zmeskal: Okay, so that's how Okay.
• 28:00
  Trisha Smith: Okay?
• 28:00
  Leyla Zmeskal: cuz I was thinking, how
• 28:01
  Trisha Smith: How did they find out?
• 28:02
  Leyla Zmeskal: Yeah, exactly.
• 28:03
  Trisha Smith: Right. Ed Warren gathered a team of reporters, investigators and parapsychologists to meet at the home, although the Lutz family refused to reenter. They ended up meeting them at a pizza place like and telling them all about their experiences. And then they're like, later you go do what you need to do. We're not going with you. I don't know. I never, like, I could not find anything saying that they ever entered the home again. Like they never went back in. So as far as that goes, they've maintained that. They maintained that throughout the years.
• 28:37
  Leyla Zmeskal: Which that is interesting.
• 28:39
  Trisha Smith: Right.
• 28:39
  Leyla Zmeskal: I would say that's a little interesting part of it.
• 28:41
  Trisha Smith: But again, if like the son said, there was actually things going on in the home that they exaggerated, maybe that was enough to keep them at bay.
• 28:49
  Leyla Zmeskal: True, very true.
• 28:50
  Leyla Zmeskal: Okay.
• 28:50
  Trisha Smith: I don't know. But during the investigation, Ed One of the reasons this house became associated with the Warrens, and became so famous for it, was because of a says he was pushed to the ground in the basement, and Lorraine photo taken by Gene Campbell, who was a professional photographer and part of the team Ed had assembled for the investigation. He had set up an automatic camera with black and white film that took infrared pictures to capture the second floor landing at night. He captured the famous Amityville ghost boy photo
• 29:41
  Leyla Zmeskal: Gotcha.
• 29:42
  Trisha Smith: that some speculate is young John DeFeo, who was murdered in the home.
• 29:45
  Trisha Smith: Others think it may be another
• 29:45
  Leyla Zmeskal: Oh, yeah.
• 29:46
  Trisha Smith: Most of the home or most of the photos that are investigator who was working in the home that night. But they had visions of the DeFeo family covered in sheets and lined up released online about the investigation of the Amityville all claimed that it was the murdered boy. You know, they knew where all their people were. There was nobody there, and that there was a very strong evil residing in the home. But home, are, belong to the Warren's.
• 30:05
  Trisha Smith: standard for the Warrens, they never went back after the one investigation.
• 30:06
  Trisha Smith: Yeah, there are, there are no other photos.
• 30:06
  Leyla Zmeskal: Shocking.
• 30:14
  Leyla Zmeskal: Oh, that's so weird.
• 30:24
  Trisha Smith: There's a great article. It's so weird. It's such a weird article. It's a one on one interview with Lorraine on the floor. It was also the Warrens that told the story of Warren. It's on movie web dot com.
• 30:36
  https: //movieweb.com/psychic-lorraine-warren-talks-about-the-real-amityville-horror/ And it's from April of 2005. And it's her talking, you know, doing a one on one interview talking about her experience at the Amityville house. And it's just really weird. Yeah. The more I read about what, you know, the cases they were involved in, I said this last week, the more I believe Ed was definitely opportunistic. But Lorraine truly seemed to believe that she had some type of, some the Shinnecock Indians using the land as a sanitarium for their people.
• 31:05
  https: type of psychic abilities.
• 31:05
  https: Whether it was imagined or not, she really believed it. I mean, it didn't matter what other people thought, that's what she believed. And when you read this interview, going back to what you said, being very religious, she talks about how, you know, she couldn't do this if she didn't have a strong faith and, and then she talks about her husband, it just, you gotta read it.
• 31:33
  Leyla Zmeskal: I'm gonna have to.
• 31:34
  Trisha Smith: I'm gonna post that link. So you can read all about it, because it's just fascinating, because it is, like, her words. It's her,
• 31:44
  Leyla Zmeskal: Yeah. Her saying things.
• 31:46
  Trisha Smith: Yeah, it's not just a story. It's actual, you know, her and asking a question.
• 31:49
  Trisha Smith: And then her words, which are, it's just so odd.
• 31:56
  Leyla Zmeskal: Man, I'm curious now. I'll have to go read that.
• 31:59
  Trisha Smith: So that is the story of the Amityville Horror.
• 32:05
  Trisha Smith: It's just
• 32:05
  Leyla Zmeskal: I love that.
• 32:06
  Trisha Smith: It's so different than what you think, you know, or what you see, or which the movies are about. Jjust the whole backstory and the whole, you know, pre meditated, you know, events all of, it's just, it's crazy. It's crazy that not only did they do all that, but they were able to pull it off and maintain it as truth for as long as they did.
• 32:33
  Leyla Zmeskal: That seems to be a common theme with a lot of their more famous
• 32:41
  Trisha Smith: Right.
• 32:41
  Trisha Smith: I think it was the time period. I mean, for
• 32:42
  Leyla Zmeskal: Investigations.
• 32:44
  Leyla Zmeskal: example, I know, myself, when I think about this, I'm like, Oh, Newspaper clippings.
• 32:48
  Leyla Zmeskal: my God, that's so crazy. How could nobody know? But then you
• 32:49
  Trisha Smith: Yeah. You know, do whatever they needed to do.
• 32:52
  Trisha Smith: think about the timeframe. Like we were saying, armchair detectives weren't really a thing in the 70s, because there was, there wasn't any internet to Google and see, like, Did this happen? What year did this, you know, they had to, like, actually visit a Library, visit a,
• 33:11
  Leyla Zmeskal: The microfiche thing at the libraries.
• 33:15
  Trisha Smith: So yeah, it was a lot more work, so people just took things that they heard as fact or at face value, and you know, things could spiral out of control really easily,
• 33:28
  Leyla Zmeskal: Especially during that time, because there was also that Satanic Panic happening as well. Which really helped fuel all of that, as well, and bring it to mainstream.
• 33:42
  Trisha Smith: Right. Right.
• 33:43
  Leyla Zmeskal: That's good though. It's so interesting. I didn't know about the the furniture.
• 33:47
  Trisha Smith: I know.
• 33:48
  Leyla Zmeskal: I didn't know that
• 33:49
  Trisha Smith: Yeah.
• 33:50
  Leyla Zmeskal: That's. that was a fun fact.
• 33:51
  Trisha Smith: Crazy. I just can't imagine. You know what?
• 33:55
  Trisha Smith: It, great. It all came with the house. Sell it. Why would you use it?
• 34:01
  Leyla Zmeskal: I mean, at least get rid of the damn bed frames.
• 34:04
  Trisha Smith: Well, the Lutz's claim they did not use the bed frames, but people who visited the home, people who were in the home are like, Oh, yeah, it was still there when we went in and did our investigation, so I know. So crazy.
• 34:20
  Leyla Zmeskal: Oh my god, you want to talk about crazy?
• 34:21
  Trisha Smith: What?
• 34:23
  Leyla Zmeskal: It's crazy how fast I went through my beverage.
• 34:24
  Trisha Smith: It's not hard.
• 34:24
  Trisha Smith: It's not hard with this. So okay, that's it. That is it. I am done with the Warrens for a very long time.
• 34:36
  Leyla Zmeskal: I would agree with that.
• 34:36
  Trisha Smith: That was a lot.
• 34:36
  Trisha Smith: Their shits heavy.
• 34:40
  Leyla Zmeskal: It is.
• 34:41
  Trisha Smith: So yeah.
• 34:42
  Leyla Zmeskal: That was fun, though. I did enjoy it.
• 34:44
  Trisha Smith: I liked learning all the new facts and things about the case that I didn't know but I am so done with the Warrens.
• 34:50
  Leyla Zmeskal: I'm still gonna watch the movies because I think they're entertaining.
• 34:52
  Trisha Smith: I am too. I am too. I'm gonna have to watch, now that I know all this, I kind of want to watch. I know I just watched it.
• 34:58
  Leyla Zmeskal: But maybe watch the 2005 version with, what's his name?
• 35:03
  Trisha Smith: Ryan Reynolds?
• 35:03
  Trisha Smith: Yeah. That one doesn't have all the all the super weird creepy 70s stuff though.
• 35:09
  Leyla Zmeskal: The pig in the window with the glowing eyes? I always wonder like, why was that thrown in there?
• 35:16
  Trisha Smith: There was a part of the movie where he like dives in the water, because he thinks the little girl like fell in the water and is drowning. So he dives in. and I'm like, you just did that to take your shirt off.
• 35:23
  Trisha Smith: Like that's what kind of movie it became for in 2005.
• 35:30
  Leyla Zmeskal: I mean,
• 35:30
  Trisha Smith: I'm not opposed, I'm just saying.
• 35:33
  Leyla Zmeskal: I mean, it might be all right.
• 35:36
  Trisha Smith: Entertainment value, watch 2005.
• 35:39
  Leyla Zmeskal: Yes.
• 35:39
  Trisha Smith: Comparison value, I'm gonna go watch the 1979.
• 35:45
  Trisha Smith: Anyways, let's go make a drink so I can make that decision.
• 35:48
  Leyla Zmeskal: I like it.
• 35:49
  Trisha Smith: Until next time,
• 35:50
  Leyla Zmeskal: Cheers.
• 35:51
  Trisha Smith: Cheers.
• 35:52
  Leyla Zmeskal: Hey, like what you hear?
• 35:54
  Diane Black: Check us out on Instagram.
• 35:55
  https: //www.instagram.com/boozybanterwithfriends/
• 35:55
  Trisha Smith: Or send us a message at Boozy Banter with Friends dot com.
• 35:57
  Trisha Smith: https://boozybanterwithfriends.com
• 35:59
  Leyla Zmeskal: Thanks for listening.
• 36:00
  Trisha Smith: Until next time,
• 36:01
  Diane Black: Later.