Latest / Podcast on the Brink / POTB 528: The DeVries hire, building a program in 2025 and more with Mike DeCourcy

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POTB 528: The DeVries hire, building a program in 2025 and more with Mike DeCourcy · Podcast on the Brink

0:16
Speaker 1: Welcome back to a new episode of Podcasts on the Brink.
0:20
Speaker 1: It's Tuesday, May thirteenth, and Mike de Coursi this Forting
0:25
Speaker 1: News back with us for another episode of Podcasts on
0:28
Speaker 1: the Brink. Before we get to Mic wanted to take
0:30
Speaker 1: a moment remind you that this episode of Podcasts on
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Speaker 1: the Brink brought to you by our friends at Visit Bloomington.
0:36
Speaker 1: Just because the basketball season is over doesn't mean the
0:38
Speaker 1: fun stops. Spring is the perfect time to explore everything
0:41
Speaker 1: Bloomington has to offer. Hike the trails at Griffy Lake
0:44
Speaker 1: Nature Preserved, and refuel with local flavors on tap at
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Speaker 1: Upland Brewing Company. And don't forget about the many music
0:50
Speaker 1: festivals coming to Bloomington this spring. Whether you're into outdoor activities, food,
0:54
Speaker 1: or just relaxing in a vibrant college town, Visit Bloomington
0:58
Speaker 1: has you covered. Start planning your spring getaway now at
1:02
Speaker 1: visit Bloomington dot com. And before we get started, I
1:06
Speaker 1: just wanted to warn everybody Mike maybe having a little
1:08
Speaker 1: construction going on at his homestead in the background, So
1:12
Speaker 1: if you hear any loud banging, rust assured Mike's okay.
1:14
Speaker 1: Nobody's trying to break in and capture him. So how
1:18
Speaker 1: you doing, Mike?
1:19
Speaker 2: I'm doing great, Allix. It's great to see you.
1:23
Speaker 1: So been a while since we talked to you. I
1:26
Speaker 1: feel like we've had this conversation before about what maybe
1:30
Speaker 1: didn't work out with an IU basketball coach. I think
1:32
Speaker 1: we had it with Tom Creane. Think we had it
1:34
Speaker 1: with Archie Miller. I think we had it with Mike Woodson. Now,
1:38
Speaker 1: you know, but instead of looking back, I want to
1:40
Speaker 1: look forward. You know, we were talking a little bit
1:44
Speaker 1: before I hit record. You mentioned you don't know Darren
1:47
Speaker 1: Devrees all that well, but you have watched him coach,
1:49
Speaker 1: you have, you know, you know his resume and all
1:54
Speaker 1: that and what he's accomplished. Obviously at Drake had a
1:57
Speaker 1: really nice run there had his one season. It was
2:00
Speaker 1: Virginia where a lot of people, I think, including you
2:03
Speaker 1: as one of the preeminent bracketologists on the web, or
2:06
Speaker 1: kind of stunned that they didn't get in the NCAA tournament.
2:09
Speaker 1: And you can talk about that a little bit if
2:11
Speaker 1: you want, but just curious, big picture on the hire
2:15
Speaker 1: for Indiana Darren Devrees, what you thought of it and
2:18
Speaker 1: maybe what you look for as he gets ready to
2:22
Speaker 1: get up for his first season on Bloyington.
2:24
Speaker 2: Well, I think it starts with when you hire a
2:26
Speaker 2: basketball coach, they have to be capable coach. They have
2:29
Speaker 2: to be someone that understands how to win college basketball games.
2:34
Speaker 2: That's the first place you want to start. And I
2:37
Speaker 2: think that if you look over the post night history,
2:40
Speaker 2: Indiana has batted close to a thousand in that department. Obviously,
2:48
Speaker 2: Mike Davis hadn't coached yet when he got the job,
2:51
Speaker 2: he hadn't been a head coach, I should say, so
2:53
Speaker 2: we didn't know where he would be. I think his
2:55
Speaker 2: record there and subsequently has proved that he can handle
2:59
Speaker 2: that part of it. But the job at that stage,
3:03
Speaker 2: with everything that went on, was a lot for him.
3:07
Speaker 2: And then we had the Calvin thing and that didn't
3:11
Speaker 2: work out. And then Tom Crane did some very good
3:14
Speaker 2: things that Indiana with winning the two Big Tens, getting
3:18
Speaker 2: that number one seed in in twenty thirteen, didn't have
3:23
Speaker 2: much luck with the draw. It faced just the wrong
3:27
Speaker 2: team in Syracuse and so everything has gone a little
3:30
Speaker 2: bit wrong in other areas for Indiana. So that's where
3:35
Speaker 2: really when you're a coach. Darren in this circumstance has
3:40
Speaker 2: to focus on getting a roster together, and he's worked
3:44
Speaker 2: really hard at that. You can see that in the
3:48
Speaker 2: reports from people like yourself, not necessarily in the public pronouncements,
3:54
Speaker 2: but in the reports that we know. I mean, you
3:57
Speaker 2: look at the Wikipedia page for twenty five twenty six
4:00
Speaker 2: i U basket men's basketball. There's a full roster. Uh
4:04
Speaker 2: there's a there's a full breakdown of that of what
4:07
Speaker 2: you're of what you're going to see next season. Uh
4:10
Speaker 2: So we know what the roster will look like, and
4:13
Speaker 2: he's done very well at putting together a capable roster,
4:18
Speaker 2: not exceptionally tall roster, which is a little bit disconcerting.
4:22
Speaker 2: If you you've got one true big man on the team,
4:26
Speaker 2: some power forward types, but one true center. You got
4:30
Speaker 2: to hope that that player stays healthy, uh and that
4:33
Speaker 2: he is effective against Big ten competition. The Atlantic ten
4:38
Speaker 2: to the Big ten is not that huge eleape. I mean,
4:40
Speaker 2: we've seen uh players make the leap from from low
4:45
Speaker 2: major to high major and succeed. Uh So to ask
4:49
Speaker 2: Reed Bailey to make the lead from Atlantic ten to
4:52
Speaker 2: it to Big ten is not that much of a
4:55
Speaker 2: of an ask. Uh So we'll we'll see that. Uh I.
5:00
Speaker 2: I think that up and down, he's looked at the
5:03
Speaker 2: things that matter. When I look at these mid to
5:07
Speaker 2: low major transfers to high major, the first thing I
5:10
Speaker 2: look at for a big guy, it's rebounding and block shots.
5:15
Speaker 2: Just want to see those two things because they translate.
5:18
Speaker 2: Rebounding translates better than any other statistic from You could
5:23
Speaker 2: take a guy like twenty years ago, twenty five years gosh,
5:26
Speaker 2: it's not it's almost thirty years ago now. Malik Rose,
5:29
Speaker 2: who I saw play at Trexel against Memphis when I
5:31
Speaker 2: was covering the Tigers in the NCAA tournament. He was
5:33
Speaker 2: an unbelievable rebounder in what that was then, I think
5:37
Speaker 2: he was in the Colonial So what do those numbers mean? Well,
5:41
Speaker 2: they threw him in the NBA and he got rebounds there,
5:43
Speaker 2: So that stat translates. Block shots are generally going to
5:49
Speaker 2: translate because it usually involves dynamism, timing the balls in
5:53
Speaker 2: the air. You can go get it or you can't.
5:55
Speaker 2: And then the other one for perimeter players, can you
5:58
Speaker 2: shoot the ball. That's because that if you're open, you're
6:02
Speaker 2: gonna make a shot. If you're a shooter, you're gonna
6:04
Speaker 2: make a shot for the most part if they can
6:07
Speaker 2: get you open. Now there are certainly other degrees can
6:10
Speaker 2: you get yourself open and that those are the special players.
6:13
Speaker 2: But if you're a wing player and the can and
6:15
Speaker 2: they get you open, can you make the shot? So
6:17
Speaker 2: that's an important component, and I think IU has a
6:19
Speaker 2: lot of that covered the block shot area a little
6:22
Speaker 2: bit concerning generally they have. I mean, that's a team
6:27
Speaker 2: that has a chance to be among the best shooting
6:29
Speaker 2: teams in college basketball next year based on the people
6:32
Speaker 2: that they've brought in. So that all and and one
6:36
Speaker 2: more element of the coaching aspect of it that I'll
6:39
Speaker 2: talk about with coach Degrees is we saw what he
6:43
Speaker 2: built at Drexel and it was amazing. Excuse me, not
6:46
Speaker 2: at drex soil I drink. We saw what he built
6:48
Speaker 2: there and it was amazing, very impressive. But I went
6:51
Speaker 2: to I live in Pittsburgh. Now, I went last November
6:56
Speaker 2: to West Virginia's game at pitt of I. We don't
7:00
Speaker 2: get a lot of compelling high major games, especially in
7:03
Speaker 2: non conference here in Pittsburgh. I wasn't going to miss that.
7:07
Speaker 2: It's a rivalry game. So I go and I don't
7:12
Speaker 2: remember the exact final score, but Pit one by twenty plus.
7:15
Speaker 2: And I'm telling Alex, I'm not exaggerating when I say
7:18
Speaker 2: they could have won by forty plus if they wonted.
7:21
Speaker 2: It was an absolute annihilation a pit of West Virginia.
7:26
Speaker 2: And I watched that game and I looked at that
7:29
Speaker 2: and I said, how is West Virginia going to win
7:31
Speaker 2: six games this year? And I mean that literally. I
7:34
Speaker 2: thought that they would be fortunate to win six games.
7:37
Speaker 2: That's how bad they looked that night. And within two
7:40
Speaker 2: weeks they are going down to the Bahamas and competing
7:42
Speaker 2: at the highest level of that tournament. And by the
7:45
Speaker 2: end of the year they were an absolute They were
7:47
Speaker 2: robbed by the committee. So in the lingo of sports,
7:52
Speaker 2: they were robbed. They absolutely should have been an NCAA
7:56
Speaker 2: tournament team. They should have been in. Yeah, they lost
7:59
Speaker 2: their first conference tournament game and it was a bad
8:02
Speaker 2: one to Colorado. Not a good team, but they're not
8:07
Speaker 2: the only ones that ever did that. Their resumes said
8:10
Speaker 2: they belonged, and they did not get in. So he
8:12
Speaker 2: did an amazing coaching job last year and did all
8:16
Speaker 2: of that with his son Tucker missing enough of the
8:20
Speaker 2: year that he can be a Hoosier this year. So
8:23
Speaker 2: that part of it, I think that he absolutely has covered.
8:26
Speaker 2: He has won at the college level. He's won, He's
8:29
Speaker 2: won against good teams. He's won under tough circumstances, like
8:34
Speaker 2: the defeat of Indiana State in the Valley Championship game
8:38
Speaker 2: in twenty twenty four. I mean, that's a game he
8:41
Speaker 2: wasn't expected to win. Indiana State was widely expected to
8:44
Speaker 2: win that game, and they went out on a neutral
8:47
Speaker 2: floor and they won that game relatively handily. They put
8:51
Speaker 2: a big number up, big margin, and excuse me, Indiana
8:56
Speaker 2: State chipped away at it a little bit, but that
8:59
Speaker 2: was Drexel, excuse me, Drake's game. So the part of
9:03
Speaker 2: it that now becomes a challenge for him is the
9:05
Speaker 2: public part. Iu has a unbelievably loyal and passionate following
9:13
Speaker 2: among the very best in the sport. When you talk
9:15
Speaker 2: about the big, the big brands in college basketball, Carolina, Duke, Kentucky, Kansas, Ucla,
9:27
Speaker 2: Indiana's passion matches up with all of them, every one
9:32
Speaker 2: of them. And so that's something that you have to
9:36
Speaker 2: cope with as a coach. You have to manage it.
9:38
Speaker 2: You have to figure and you can't just shut it
9:41
Speaker 2: out because if you try to shut it out that
9:44
Speaker 2: that's a defeat. You have to embrace it and use
9:47
Speaker 2: it to your advantage. And those are the things that
9:50
Speaker 2: he's going to have to figure out. He's never had
9:52
Speaker 2: that before. He wasn't at West Virginia long enough, the
9:55
Speaker 2: only big brand in the state really, and there's a
9:58
Speaker 2: lot that you can take advantage, So everybody wasn't there
10:01
Speaker 2: long enough to really get a feel for it. And
10:03
Speaker 2: then of course at Drake they're the they're at best
10:06
Speaker 2: the third, maybe the fourth brand in this in college
10:10
Speaker 2: basketball in the state of Iowa. So he's not had
10:14
Speaker 2: this before and he's gonna have to He's gonna have
10:17
Speaker 2: to show that he can deal with it, uh and
10:19
Speaker 2: that he can use it to his advantage rather than
10:22
Speaker 2: have it be a disadvantage.
10:24
Speaker 1: Going back to something you mentioned with the roster, it
10:27
Speaker 1: kind of stuck out and it seemed like it's something
10:29
Speaker 1: you had maybe a not concern, but questions on I've
10:34
Speaker 1: watched Big Ten basketball, off You've you've watched it long
10:37
Speaker 1: enough to know that there are certain teams in certain
10:39
Speaker 1: styles of play where they're gonna get the ball inside
10:42
Speaker 1: and they're just gonna go to work. I mean, Indiana
10:44
Speaker 1: is one of those teams the last three or four
10:46
Speaker 1: years under Mike Woodson, even going back to Archie Miller.
10:49
Speaker 1: But you think about Michigan State last year. They were
10:51
Speaker 1: a team that made a deep NCAA tournament run. You
10:54
Speaker 1: looked at their three point volume, they didn't shoot a
10:56
Speaker 1: lot of threes. They had big, rugged guys in the paint.
10:59
Speaker 1: You think about the Purdue teams with Zach Edy and
11:01
Speaker 1: all the big men they've had in the past. How
11:06
Speaker 1: concerning is it. Maybe that's not the right word, but
11:09
Speaker 1: Indiana's front court just right now in terms of being
11:13
Speaker 1: able to go up against most teams in the Big Ten,
11:15
Speaker 1: or do you think the league is maybe shifting away
11:17
Speaker 1: with some of the coaching changes that we've seen in
11:19
Speaker 1: recent years, from being as post dominant as it once was.
11:23
Speaker 2: I think there are teams that are, and we'll see that,
11:26
Speaker 2: certainly with Purdue. Trey Kaufman. Wren's low post ability, his
11:32
Speaker 2: dexterity in the low post matches up with any player
11:34
Speaker 2: in college basketball, and probably any player in college basketball
11:37
Speaker 2: just in terms of the ability to make moves and
11:40
Speaker 2: to score from different areas. Matches up with probably anybody
11:44
Speaker 2: in the last decade. I mean, he's not seven to
11:46
Speaker 2: four like Zach was, but his ability to catch it
11:49
Speaker 2: low and disarm the defense is elite. But that's one
11:55
Speaker 2: player and one team. I don't think that the league
11:59
Speaker 2: is as as big dependent as it has been. I mean,
12:03
Speaker 2: you look at Nate Biddle and I don't know if
12:04
Speaker 2: we're gonna I expect we'll see him back at Oregon
12:07
Speaker 2: this this next season or not positive yet, I don't think.
12:13
Speaker 2: But Nate's a guy who is as dangerous from the
12:16
Speaker 2: perimeter as he is inside. So I don't think you
12:20
Speaker 2: have to worry about that quite as much. Particular games, Yes,
12:24
Speaker 2: you're gonna have to figure out how do you guard Trey.
12:27
Speaker 2: You have to uh to some extent. And I mean
12:30
Speaker 2: there have been games where when Zach was big a
12:34
Speaker 2: couple of years ago, where Michigan State would just play
12:37
Speaker 2: him straight up and make sure nobody else did anything.
12:41
Speaker 2: So that that's a choice, and he may get thirty
12:45
Speaker 2: thirty five on you, but you could still win the
12:47
Speaker 2: game by shutting everybody else down. So I'm more concerned
12:53
Speaker 2: in terms of their current front court about just the
12:57
Speaker 2: idea that you don't have a secondary an you're at center,
13:01
Speaker 2: so to speak. You your secondary answer is we're small
13:06
Speaker 2: and that you can win in the league not being huge.
13:10
Speaker 2: I mean, Purdue was tremendously successful last year. They started
13:14
Speaker 2: six' eight six.' eight so it's just that, you like
13:20
Speaker 2: you'd rather be six ten, six ten and if you
13:23
Speaker 2: can be that without sacrificing, ball, handling, shooting, skill dynamism,
13:29
Speaker 2: et cetera you'd rather be, six ten. Six ten but.
13:32
Speaker 2: That's that when you're looking at a team on paper
13:35
Speaker 2: and you see only one with double digits in the
13:39
Speaker 2: right hand column to the to the right of, the
13:41
Speaker 2: dash unless that first number is, a seven it's a little.
13:46
Speaker 2: Bit concerning what about just the overall?
13:51
Speaker 1: Talent LEVEL and i hate to kind of look at it,
13:53
Speaker 1: like that but obviously the thing we all look at
13:56
Speaker 1: is where did this guy? Come, from well that maybe
13:59
Speaker 1: doesn't matter as much now in the, portal ERA where
14:02
Speaker 1: i think a lot of coaches if you give them
14:04
Speaker 1: their choice of would you rather have a freshman that's
14:06
Speaker 1: ranked a hundredth in the country or would you Rather Have,
14:09
Speaker 1: hayton Connorway The sun belt player Of the year last
14:11
Speaker 1: year that led his team TO The ncaa tournament and
14:13
Speaker 1: Played against kentucky in the tournament and played against other high.
14:16
Speaker 1: Major teams they'd much rather have that than a freshman.
14:20
Speaker 1: That's unproven but you do look down this roster and, you,
14:23
Speaker 1: Say Well North. Florida elon, YOU know i don't have
14:29
Speaker 1: the whole roster in front. Of me but it's a
14:30
Speaker 1: lot of schools that obviously are a lower level of.
14:34
Speaker 1: College basketball do you think that matters? At all or
14:36
Speaker 1: is it more about the coaching and putting the pieces
14:38
Speaker 1: together and you can compete with those guys At the big.
14:41
Speaker 1: TEN level, i.
14:42
Speaker 2: Mean we have seen players that went from low major
14:47
Speaker 2: to First Team. ALL american i mean that has happened
14:51
Speaker 2: in the last couple. Of years it's happened on. MULTIPLE occasions,
14:56
Speaker 2: I mean i'm not sure at this point whether I
14:59
Speaker 2: own a qualifies as. MID major i Guess when rick,
15:03
Speaker 2: was coaching it probably Did. Because rick but we've seen
15:08
Speaker 2: guys that went from that level to First Team, all
15:14
Speaker 2: america AND so I don't you can't look at the
15:19
Speaker 2: school and say that. Can't happen it really comes down
15:23
Speaker 2: to the. Individual player how Good Is, Lamar wilkerson how Good.
15:28
Speaker 2: Is connorway how Good Is. Josh harris you really aren't
15:36
Speaker 2: sure until you get them on the floor and you.
15:40
Speaker 2: See them and those guys have all looked at film
15:44
Speaker 2: and they're investing in, a sense not their, own money
15:47
Speaker 2: but they're investing their resources in players that they think
15:54
Speaker 2: can make a difference on. Their team and and they
15:57
Speaker 2: and the other part of it is that in some
15:59
Speaker 2: of them, those cases they beat out other significant programs
16:03
Speaker 2: And BEAT kentucky i Believe. For wilkerson so that's those guys.
16:09
Speaker 2: As well we're believing in that player's ability to. PROJECT
16:14
Speaker 2: forward i Think ultimately indiana is going to want to
16:21
Speaker 2: build a multi layered program the Way that yukon has. The,
16:26
Speaker 2: way really if you look at the final four, LAST
16:30
Speaker 2: year i did, the numbers it was close to sixty percent.
16:34
Speaker 2: Homegrown players close To sixty it wasn't quite it was
16:39
Speaker 2: like fifty nine points something. Homegrown players so you'd want
16:44
Speaker 2: to have a mix. Of that but when you're coming
16:46
Speaker 2: in the, first year as was, the case, especially now
16:50
Speaker 2: when if you come in the, first year more often,
16:53
Speaker 2: than not you're going to lose a massive portion of.
16:56
Speaker 2: Your roster they're either they may be scheduled to lead
17:00
Speaker 2: eve or they may decide that you're not right. For
17:04
Speaker 2: them you came to play for. This guy you have
17:06
Speaker 2: an opportunity to go. Somewhere else you might as well go.
17:09
Speaker 2: Somewhere else so that happens now with greater regularity than it.
17:16
Speaker 2: Ever did so you have. To build if you want
17:20
Speaker 2: to build a, winner quickly this is the way to.
17:24
Speaker 2: Do it but if you want to build a championship
17:27
Speaker 2: level program, right now the history still says you. Want
17:32
Speaker 2: both you want a mix of high school Guys, and
17:38
Speaker 2: indiana as, we know has been highly productive in. That
17:43
Speaker 2: sense you're Bringing In. Trent sisily i'm glad he's staying with.
17:48
Speaker 2: His commitment i'm Glad that indiana wants him to stay
17:51
Speaker 2: with his COMMITMENT because i think, over time those that
17:55
Speaker 2: core guys like that will make you great and then.
17:59
Speaker 2: YOU implement i think that twenty three and Twenty four
18:03
Speaker 2: yukon teams are the best example to follow for the
18:07
Speaker 2: teams that have the option that want to build. Towards
18:10
Speaker 2: championships you build with guys That Like, steph castle who's an,
18:17
Speaker 2: elite recruit and we certainly Seen in indiana get guys
18:20
Speaker 2: like that in. The past you want to get guys,
18:23
Speaker 2: Like that but you also want to get Guys Like,
18:27
Speaker 2: jordan hawkins who is a thirty to fifty guy who,
18:31
Speaker 2: comes in he continues to develop and eventually becomes a lottery.
18:35
Speaker 2: Level pick you want both of those guys in, your
18:39
Speaker 2: program and then you want to mix. Into it you
18:43
Speaker 2: want to mix into it Guys Like, tristan newton who
18:48
Speaker 2: they needed a. Point guard They thought tristan could make.
18:51
Speaker 2: The transition it took him four months to, get there
18:54
Speaker 2: but he got there in time to win the twenty
18:57
Speaker 2: three championship and then Become An all american. TWENTY four.
19:02
Speaker 1: I know you talk to a lot of coaches around.
19:04
Speaker 1: The country i'm Curious and i've seen people write this
19:08
Speaker 1: or say, this THAT and i don't know how true,
19:10
Speaker 1: this is but some some schools are just exclusively recruiting,
19:13
Speaker 1: the portal not as focused on high. School recruiting do
19:17
Speaker 1: you think that's the case with? Some programs and how
19:19
Speaker 1: how are programs moving like moving forward prioritizing high school
19:23
Speaker 1: recruiting versus.
19:24
Speaker 2: Portal, RECRUITING yeah i do think that there are people
19:28
Speaker 2: out there doing that that are ignoring, the PORTAL AND
19:31
Speaker 2: i i mean ignoring. High school she's be ignoring the
19:34
Speaker 2: high school guys and and focusing strictly on, the Portals
19:37
Speaker 2: and i'm not positive that that's the way. To go
19:41
Speaker 2: we have yet to see a team that was almost
19:48
Speaker 2: exclusively portal based win. The championship that has not. Happened
19:52
Speaker 2: yet we haven't seen a team that was majority portal win.
19:57
Speaker 2: A championship florida is probably the most portal champion, we've
20:02
Speaker 2: HAD and i know we haven't had this circumstance for
20:05
Speaker 2: a long, time Yet but florida had a very important
20:08
Speaker 2: core of players that they brought in that how would
20:14
Speaker 2: be an example of that who is developing into a
20:18
Speaker 2: terrific PLAYER and i think is going to have a
20:20
Speaker 2: great twenty five. Twenty six condon. Is another those guys.
20:24
Speaker 2: Were essential they don't win the championship without. Those, guys
20:28
Speaker 2: now their starting perimeter was all. Portal guys most of
20:32
Speaker 2: them were multi year, portal guys which is a little
20:35
Speaker 2: bit different than the one year. Constant role but they
20:41
Speaker 2: certainly wouldn't have won It Without. Elijah martin he was
20:45
Speaker 2: an essential player. For them but for the, most part
20:49
Speaker 2: they had. Some Continuity, evan mayakawa who does a great
20:53
Speaker 2: job with College basketball analytics continues to emphasize roster continuity
20:59
Speaker 2: as an important component of championship. Level success it was
21:06
Speaker 2: no surprise on using that parameter or the homegrown PARAMETER
21:10
Speaker 2: that i talked about once we got To the, final
21:13
Speaker 2: Four that kentucky stalled out at the sweet. Sixteen level
21:18
Speaker 2: i'm Not Blaming mark pope for what, he did Just
21:20
Speaker 2: as i'm Not Blaming darren devrees for what he's. DOING
21:23
Speaker 2: now i think it's smart in, That circumstance but you
21:28
Speaker 2: want to come behind that with a group of high
21:33
Speaker 2: school prospects that can be. Core players and then if
21:38
Speaker 2: you can get one a five star guy to add,
21:40
Speaker 2: in sure or multiple, five stars you Want to but
21:44
Speaker 2: those four, star guys those thirty, to seventy those are
21:49
Speaker 2: the core guys that can really build you toward championship.
21:52
Speaker 2: Level success it's hard to do it when you're constantly
21:56
Speaker 2: turning it over and having to constantly be out there in.
22:00
Speaker 2: The mix and now some of the programs that are
22:02
Speaker 2: doing that whole portal concept where they're just. They're churning
22:06
Speaker 2: they're going to have some, down, years uh but they're
22:10
Speaker 2: not they are seeking to be. Highly successful they're not,
22:14
Speaker 2: necessarily seeking uh or expecting to. WIN championships i just
22:20
Speaker 2: want to be in the in the mix because that's
22:22
Speaker 2: what their programs have been and that and and if
22:25
Speaker 2: they're in, the mix like if they're at the toward
22:29
Speaker 2: the toward the top of. Their, league uh if they're
22:31
Speaker 2: getting TO the ncaa tournament on a regular basis and
22:34
Speaker 2: success at a lot, of schools but there are other
22:38
Speaker 2: schools where final fours and championships are not. Necessarily expected,
22:43
Speaker 2: but uh it's pretty it's pretty regular in their histories
22:47
Speaker 2: that they. Get there, and uh if you're if you
22:51
Speaker 2: want to, DO that i just Think that i'm a
22:55
Speaker 2: big believer in what the patterns of. History show and
23:00
Speaker 2: right now it still says you want to have core
23:03
Speaker 2: players who understand, your values who can Introduce An. Elijah
23:07
Speaker 2: martin this is the way we do Things. At florida
23:10
Speaker 2: you don't want to be the you want teams to
23:13
Speaker 2: be somewhat. Self, coached yeah you got to be the
23:16
Speaker 2: one that says, who plays and you got to be
23:18
Speaker 2: the one that comes up with the, game plans and
23:20
Speaker 2: you got to be the one that pushes the ex's
23:22
Speaker 2: and those around. The whiteboard but when when you give
23:26
Speaker 2: a lesson in. A drill you don't want to have
23:30
Speaker 2: to be the one that enforces every aspect. Of it
23:33
Speaker 2: you want there to be peer peer responsibility and peer
23:36
Speaker 2: pressure to get it right and then have that apply
23:40
Speaker 2: eventually to how you want.
23:41
Speaker 1: To, PLAY yeah i think looking Back on woodson's Time,
23:45
Speaker 1: IN indiana i think one of the things that maybe
23:48
Speaker 1: hasn't talked about as much is the lack of development
23:52
Speaker 1: of the guys that he got that were kind of
23:54
Speaker 1: ranked in that, you know fifty to one. Fifty range
23:57
Speaker 1: Look At jakai newton obviously had injury but never really.
24:01
Speaker 1: Produced Anything gabe cups is another guy who was around
24:04
Speaker 1: a top, one hundred top one. Fifty player obviously played
24:07
Speaker 1: a lot as, a freshman but then was hurt, last
24:09
Speaker 1: season didn't contribute. To Much caleb banks was a guy
24:12
Speaker 1: that was around for a couple of years and we
24:14
Speaker 1: saw him Go to tulane last year and, break out
24:16
Speaker 1: but his first Two years indiana wasn't really able to
24:19
Speaker 1: get much out. Of HIM And cj gun's another one
24:21
Speaker 1: that so there's four guys that can just point to
24:23
Speaker 1: you right off the top, is like, you know how
24:26
Speaker 1: much Different does indiana look last year if one or
24:28
Speaker 1: two of those guys had stepped into bigger roles and
24:30
Speaker 1: developed into something that they could, have used but in
24:33
Speaker 1: all four of them now obviously gone from. The PROGRAM
24:36
Speaker 1: but i do think that's interesting to look at and
24:39
Speaker 1: contrast with the Program, like, purdue who's, you know dabbling
24:44
Speaker 1: a little bit in. The portal but for the, Most
24:46
Speaker 1: Part matt painter's finding guys that maybe are a little
24:49
Speaker 1: bit undervalued that he. Brings in whether It's A kaufman
24:52
Speaker 1: wren not, being undervalued but he got him to red
24:54
Speaker 1: shirt for. A year now he's developed into An all
24:57
Speaker 1: big ten. Type player and then, last year a guy Like,
24:59
Speaker 1: se COX who i don't think the high majors were
25:02
Speaker 1: knocking on his door to get him, To commit purdue,
25:05
Speaker 1: Gets him he comes in plays a. Big Role braden
25:08
Speaker 1: smith kind of the, same thing was a guy that
25:10
Speaker 1: a ton Of probably big ten programs could have been,
25:13
Speaker 1: in On but purdue. Got him and the list. Goes
25:16
Speaker 1: ON so i do think you make a great point
25:18
Speaker 1: just being able to identify, those players bring them into,
25:23
Speaker 1: your program, retain them and develop them over time really
25:26
Speaker 1: puts you in a much better position to be competitive
25:29
Speaker 1: in a year in year.
25:30
Speaker 2: Out, BASIS yeah i think you can even Alex Use,
25:33
Speaker 2: mackenzie imbaco who was a, five star as an example
25:36
Speaker 2: of a player who didn't really develop and BLOSSOM at
25:39
Speaker 2: iu in his. TWO years, i mean we saw him
25:41
Speaker 2: as a sophomore have a very inconsistent season and he
25:45
Speaker 2: should have had a great season based on the fact
25:48
Speaker 2: that he was a five star who obviously, is talented
25:52
Speaker 2: who became a sophomore that should be a breakout season in,
25:55
Speaker 2: the making and it. Didn't happen and now he's at
25:58
Speaker 2: the com and he's showing. Nice things there's some good
26:04
Speaker 2: buzz about, him there so we know that the we
26:08
Speaker 2: thought that the ability, Was there we saw enough flashes
26:10
Speaker 2: to note that the ability, was there but the consistent
26:15
Speaker 2: performance was. Not THERE and i THINK that i think
26:19
Speaker 2: that is another example of where OF where i You
26:24
Speaker 2: Under mike whitson didn't totally develop the players and didn't
26:29
Speaker 2: totally utilize the ability of the players that were in
26:32
Speaker 2: his program to their.
26:34
Speaker 1: GREATEST effect i wanted to ask you before we before we,
26:37
Speaker 1: wrap up just about the other coaching hires That The
26:40
Speaker 1: big ten had. This Offseason buzz williams Going, to Maryland,
26:42
Speaker 1: Which Obviously kevin willard moves on from, that situation which
26:46
Speaker 1: was really kind of a weird one to. Track there
26:48
Speaker 1: as the end of the season, Went on maryland was
26:51
Speaker 1: playing its, best basketball advancing in, the tournament and it
26:54
Speaker 1: seemed like kind of a cloud was hanging over with that.
26:56
Speaker 1: Whole situation so They Get, buzz williams who. You know
27:01
Speaker 1: it Seems like buzz likes to go to a place
27:03
Speaker 1: for what four or, five years and then jump somewhere
27:05
Speaker 1: else after he's worn out as welcome a, little Bit
27:07
Speaker 1: but i'm pretty confident that He'll have maryland playing. Winning
27:11
Speaker 1: Basketball nico medved goes back to his Alma. Moderate minnesota
27:14
Speaker 1: And then, ben McCollum a name that a lot of
27:16
Speaker 1: people thought maybe was a potential Guy that indiana would
27:20
Speaker 1: target Going. To iowa i'm just curious for your thoughts
27:24
Speaker 1: on those three hires and maybe what you think of each.
27:26
Speaker 2: Of, Them well i'll Start, with NICO because i think
27:29
Speaker 2: that that was a. TERRIFIC higher i didn't Love That
27:33
Speaker 2: ben johnson was. LET go i Thought that ben did
27:37
Speaker 2: some really. GOOD things, i mean you think about Guys Like,
27:41
Speaker 2: pharrell payne who we saw deep IN the. Ncaa tournament
27:44
Speaker 2: if they had had the resources that were available to
27:46
Speaker 2: some other teams In The, big ten would they have
27:49
Speaker 2: been able To, keep pharrell would they have been able To?
27:51
Speaker 2: Keep hawkins and if they did keep those guys and they,
27:55
Speaker 2: didn't succeed then that would. Be different but they weren't
27:58
Speaker 2: able to and they wound up with a. Deficient ROSTER
28:02
Speaker 2: and i thought That they you saw some of the
28:04
Speaker 2: games that they either won or were right there. AND
28:07
Speaker 2: beating i believe They beat michigan at home if my memory,
28:10
Speaker 2: serves now and they put They Pushed ohio state INTO.
28:14
Speaker 2: DOUBLE ot I thought I, liked BEN but. I can't
28:21
Speaker 2: i can't help but Admit That nico medford is a.
28:24
Speaker 2: SIGNIFICANT upgrade, I mean nico has a tremendous, track record,
28:29
Speaker 2: great resume has shown the ability to compete IN The
28:34
Speaker 2: Nc double a's a. TRUE winner i don't know what
28:38
Speaker 2: the resource circumstance will be like for. Him THERE if
28:44
Speaker 2: i presume he would wouldn't have taken a job if
28:47
Speaker 2: he didn't believe that it would be enough sufficient for
28:52
Speaker 2: him to be competitive in one of the best leagues in.
28:55
Speaker 2: College basketball he's not. Going there he's not trading in
28:59
Speaker 2: success to go somewhere and not succeed for reasons that
29:04
Speaker 2: are beyond. HIS control i THINK that i think that
29:08
Speaker 2: they'll probably do what they need to do there for
29:11
Speaker 2: him to. Be Successful and minnesota is an underrated basketball
29:15
Speaker 2: state in terms of, producing talent so we'll see whether
29:19
Speaker 2: he's able to maybe protect. THE borders I thought ben
29:23
Speaker 2: did an okay job, at that but maybe even they
29:25
Speaker 2: can even. Do BETTER so i like the. HIRE there
29:29
Speaker 2: I obviously iowa McCollum is a, terrific coach not FOUR
29:35
Speaker 2: time i think national champion AT the d two level
29:39
Speaker 2: and did a great Job. With drake they were fantastic.
29:43
Speaker 2: This year but it's a significant change in style and
29:48
Speaker 2: philosophy from what was the case under fran McCaffrey for basically.
29:54
Speaker 2: Fifteen years it's a. Fascinating change one of the things
30:00
Speaker 2: that it struck me about about this whole Process was
30:08
Speaker 2: grant McCaslin when he Was At north texas played a very,
30:12
Speaker 2: controlled style. Hyper control maybe not Quite the, drake extreme
30:17
Speaker 2: but pretty, hyper control and they were they were. VERY effective,
30:22
Speaker 2: I mean purdue remembers twenty twenty one what they were able.
30:25
Speaker 2: To DO and I then i see him Go To,
30:30
Speaker 2: texas tech and now they get guys who can make
30:33
Speaker 2: shots and drive and play above the rim and all.
30:36
Speaker 2: That stuff and now all of, a sudden they're, you
30:38
Speaker 2: know they're a much more. Dynamic team they weren't not
30:41
Speaker 2: like they were playing in, the nineties but they were
30:43
Speaker 2: a much more dynamic Team under Grant At texas tech
30:48
Speaker 2: than they had Been At. North texas so possibly now
30:52
Speaker 2: with the ability that will be Available to Ben, AT iowa,
30:57
Speaker 2: i mean we've seen some tremendous players Go through Iowa
31:01
Speaker 2: in france, time there maybe he loosens up at least a.
31:04
Speaker 2: Little bit it doesn't have to necessarily be we're going
31:08
Speaker 2: to rank in the three sixties in tempo. Every year
31:12
Speaker 2: maybe it doesn't have to. Be that we'll see. What
31:15
Speaker 2: HAPPENS but i like the higher. Very much And. Then
31:19
Speaker 2: buzz I've known buzz for gosh twenty almost twenty. Years
31:23
Speaker 2: now he's. CERTAINLY different i think he'll. He'll be he's
31:29
Speaker 2: replacing a, Coach who kevin is very personal on a,
31:33
Speaker 2: one personable on a one on. One basis if you,
31:36
Speaker 2: know him you, like him is not as dynamic a
31:39
Speaker 2: personality if you don't. Know, Him Buzz so buzz doesn't
31:44
Speaker 2: have to replace someone That Like mark pope going in
31:49
Speaker 2: To REPLACE. JOHN caliperi, I mean john's a. Big personality
31:54
Speaker 2: mark showed that he is a very interesting personality as
31:58
Speaker 2: well a. Captivating personality that part wasn't. A problem buzz
32:02
Speaker 2: doesn't have to worry. About that he doesn't have to
32:04
Speaker 2: worry about a program that was that was had an
32:08
Speaker 2: overwhelming personality. To it he can go in. And coach
32:11
Speaker 2: he's got to. Get, guys uh. He's done he's done
32:14
Speaker 2: that everywhere. He's Been. Virginia tech marquette is a great eye.
32:17
Speaker 2: FOR talent, i mean he's the one Who Saw jimmy
32:19
Speaker 2: butler and figured figured out that maybe he Didn't know
32:22
Speaker 2: jimmy would be A playoff jimmy so, to speak but
32:25
Speaker 2: he knew he was a player and not. Everybody. Did
32:28
Speaker 2: uh and he's done that consistently over. The. Years uh
32:32
Speaker 2: he'll have the access to a great resources in terms
32:35
Speaker 2: of talent Base. AT maryland i still say and have
32:39
Speaker 2: said for decades that the what they CALL the dmv
32:43
Speaker 2: is as good a place for basketball talent. As Anywhere,
32:47
Speaker 2: uh so he's got that in his, back pocket. Backyard Whatever,
32:51
Speaker 2: UH so i like, That uh i'll be interested to
32:54
Speaker 2: see how, he uh how he adjusts to what is
33:00
Speaker 2: the biggest stage he's. BEEN on, I mean marquette was
33:03
Speaker 2: kind of a fishball thing because they have a very passionate,
33:06
Speaker 2: fan base but it's. Not huge And Then virginia tech kind. Of,
33:11
Speaker 2: Not Obviously virginia tech basketball the second Sport AT texas
33:17
Speaker 2: A and m basketball might be third, behind baseball, not
33:20
Speaker 2: sure but certainly. Not first now he's, that guy and
33:25
Speaker 2: this is the first time he's been in. That circumstance
33:28
Speaker 2: i'll be very interested to see how he deals, with it.
33:31
Speaker 1: For sure it'll be fascinating. TO watch i remember back
33:34
Speaker 1: in the was it twenty seventeen coaching cycle or thinking back,
33:39
Speaker 1: to that it, was like, All Right brad underwood was Hired,
33:42
Speaker 1: At Illinois chris Holtman At, Ohio state Indiana Hires, archie
33:46
Speaker 1: Miller and I'm thinking i'll probably Rank Him archie holtman And.
33:50
Speaker 1: Then underwood and here we are eight, years later and
33:52
Speaker 1: It's Clearly brad underwood was the top higher of. Those
33:56
Speaker 1: threes it wasn't. Really close so that this goes to
33:59
Speaker 1: show you how little we know about how these hires
34:02
Speaker 1: are going to, work out and it's always funny to,
34:04
Speaker 1: me that, you know trying to sign a grade to
34:08
Speaker 1: a higher IT'S it's, I know i think you did
34:11
Speaker 1: something like that after. THIS cycle i know it drives click,
34:14
Speaker 1: but clicks but it's it's probably funny for you to
34:17
Speaker 1: maybe go back and look at some of these over
34:19
Speaker 1: the years of how you, graded them because it's so
34:21
Speaker 1: hard to especially now with just how college, basketball is
34:26
Speaker 1: with the portal and the uncertainty of everything the, player
34:29
Speaker 1: movement it's really hard to know what. You're getting and
34:32
Speaker 1: that was especially the case back in. TWENTY seventeen i
34:35
Speaker 1: think it would be even more the case now in twenty.
34:37
Speaker 1: Twenty five.
34:37
Speaker 2: Oh definitely you really. Don't know, and Again as i've
34:42
Speaker 2: discussed In that, minnesota example you don't always know what
34:46
Speaker 2: is holding. People back is it, the circumstance is it
34:50
Speaker 2: what is it the energy that they don't that they bring?
34:53
Speaker 2: To it is it the staff that they? Put together
34:57
Speaker 2: and now more, than ever it's, you know how how
35:00
Speaker 2: are your resources compared? To others and then of course
35:04
Speaker 2: you have to execute on. Those resources how you how
35:07
Speaker 2: you spend. Those resources you have to make the right
35:10
Speaker 2: choices and the right decisions and if you make the,
35:12
Speaker 2: wrong ones then then you wind up, in trouble and
35:17
Speaker 2: you can make the. Right ones uh and and they
35:21
Speaker 2: can get hurt or whatever you get that can happen.
35:24
Speaker 2: To you it there are lots of variables now that
35:27
Speaker 2: didn't exist even ten years ago in terms of having
35:31
Speaker 2: to try to find a coach who works. For you
35:35
Speaker 2: that that and and some guys who may have really
35:39
Speaker 2: been successful ten years ago may struggle in the current
35:43
Speaker 2: era to make the same connections to uh to to
35:47
Speaker 2: know who to bring in and who not to. Bring.
35:50
Speaker 2: In there we saw that last YEAR with i. Used backcourt,
35:55
Speaker 2: on paper it, seem, fine uh but then you saw it.
35:58
Speaker 1: In.
35:58
Speaker 2: PRACTICE uh i don't mean, necessarily practice but, in reality
36:03
Speaker 2: and it just it. Didn't click it didn't work in
36:07
Speaker 2: the way that it that it should have based on
36:10
Speaker 2: what those players had done in. Other, Places, well mike
36:14
Speaker 2: thanks for thanks for.
36:15
Speaker 1: Taking time always good to talk, To you always good to.
36:17
Speaker 1: See you always enjoy reading. Your Work follow mike you
36:21
Speaker 1: can follow Him on. Twitter x whatever they're calling OUT,
36:24
Speaker 1: That tsn mike read them At The. Sporting news, Thanks,
36:27
Speaker 1: Again mike always appreciate.
36:28
Speaker 2: The time alex a pleasure and thank you for putting
36:31
Speaker 2: up with the demo going. ON upstairs i appreciate it.
36:35
Speaker 1: Sounds good, thanks everybody as always for Listening to podcasts On.
36:38
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