Latest / The Imperfect Impulse w/Bree O'Connor / Ep. 6 What Did You Say to Me?

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Ep. 6 What Did You Say to Me? · The Imperfect Impulse w/Bree O'Connor

0:00
SPEAKER_00: Hello, welcome to The Imperfect Impulse with Brie O'Connor.
0:05
SPEAKER_00: Hey, I'm your host, Brie O'Connor.
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SPEAKER_00: Surprise!
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SPEAKER_00: I'm going to start today with a story.
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SPEAKER_00: We're just going to dip right into it.
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A few decades ago,
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I was in a short play in which I was playing a teenage girl in
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the 1950s-ish.
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SPEAKER_00: The premise of the play was to look at this
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SPEAKER_00: great American,
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SPEAKER_00: you know,
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SPEAKER_00: model family,
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and then look at them each individually and find out what's
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going on inside their,
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SPEAKER_00: in their,
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SPEAKER_00: inside their,
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SPEAKER_00: their own systems,
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SPEAKER_00: inside their own lives.
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SPEAKER_00: Sort of blowing up the idea of the fifties, leave it to beaver family.
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SPEAKER_00: And my character has the, had this long monologue that took place, uh,
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SPEAKER_00: as she was in choir practice.
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So she's interspersing her inner monologue with singing her
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part in the chorus and
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SPEAKER_00: it's jumpy and fun and it bounces off of the things that she's singing.
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Inside the monologue there are a lot of coded references to
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sexual experiences.
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SPEAKER_00: Now since the language was coded
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I took my freedom and interpreted that language to create a
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story for this girl
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SPEAKER_00: about her sexual experience.
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And in my mind,
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I believed that she had discovered the pleasures of oral sex.
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And that it freed her sexually and allowed her to express
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herself without terror.
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SPEAKER_00: That it gave her an avenue to explore herself.
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And it was a really fun place for me to play this young girl
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and allow her...
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SPEAKER_00: enjoyment and her own personal secret.
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SPEAKER_00: And everything was going great in the rehearsal room.
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SPEAKER_00: The director was giving me positive feedback,
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SPEAKER_00: was laughing at all the right points,
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SPEAKER_00: and for the most part,
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SPEAKER_00: the direction focused on make sure you underline this word or
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SPEAKER_00: give a pause here.
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Very technical tweaking to the performance,
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which was really productive for the two of us.
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SPEAKER_00: Then at some point, the director decided mid-process that
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They wanted to interview each of the actors to have an hour to
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set a private time
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SPEAKER_00: with each actor to talk about their characters.
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SPEAKER_00: And this is where things went south.
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SPEAKER_00: And they went south fast.
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SPEAKER_00: I went in with this director and I was very young at the time.
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So when they asked me what I thought this coded language was
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referring to,
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SPEAKER_00: I was a thousand percent honest.
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SPEAKER_00: And I said, I think that she has discovered the power of the blowjob.
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SPEAKER_00: And the director was mortified.
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SPEAKER_00: They insisted, oh, well, oral sex wasn't a thing then.
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And they kept pointing to their own age and experience as sort
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of a universal
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SPEAKER_00: catch-all for what was going on in the 50s and 80s.
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SPEAKER_00: that I didn't know because I was so young,
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SPEAKER_00: and therefore I couldn't possibly understand,
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SPEAKER_00: and no girl of that age would even be thinking about such a thing.
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SPEAKER_00: And I just sat there in astonishment because...
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SPEAKER_00: I was old enough to know that oral sex had not been just invented.
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SPEAKER_00: It wasn't new.
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So I walked away from this conversation deeply troubled by how
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the director wanted
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SPEAKER_00: me to interpret things,
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SPEAKER_00: and I felt quite beholden to this director's vision.
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SPEAKER_00: So the next couple of rehearsals, I...
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I shifted my internal story to what the director would have
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thought was enough.
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SPEAKER_00: And my performance floundered.
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SPEAKER_00: Things were difficult.
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SPEAKER_00: The director kept giving me even more,
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SPEAKER_00: you know,
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more comments and kept trying to talk me in a circle to what
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the director felt was
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SPEAKER_00: appropriate for this girl.
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SPEAKER_00: And I was frustrated.
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And I felt smothered as if this director wanted to do this role
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instead of me.
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SPEAKER_00: And I was frustrated.
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SPEAKER_00: Until I talked to a friend who laughed at me and said,
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SPEAKER_00: The director can't control what's going on inside your head.
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SPEAKER_00: Whatever brings you
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SPEAKER_00: closest to the role and helps you portray that in an authentic manner,
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SPEAKER_00: it doesn't matter what you're thinking.
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SPEAKER_00: Whatever gets you there is what gets you there.
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SPEAKER_00: As long as you're connected.
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SPEAKER_00: And you're connected.
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So don't stop doing what you're doing because the director
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needs to clutch pearls
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SPEAKER_00: about oral sex in the 50s.
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SPEAKER_00: So I went back to my own internal interpretation and suddenly...
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SPEAKER_00: things got better.
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SPEAKER_00: I felt very good about the performance.
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The director was happy with what transpired and ultimately felt
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vindicated that
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SPEAKER_00: they had coaxed me to this great performance that,
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SPEAKER_00: you know,
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SPEAKER_00: felt real to them.
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And,
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you know,
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thank goodness I gave up on that oral sex thing,
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which it's fine.
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SPEAKER_00: They can think whatever they want.
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SPEAKER_00: And I can think whatever I want.
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So this brings me to today's discussion is about interpreting
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direction and feedback.
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Because I think there is some troubling discussions going on
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inside our society.
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SPEAKER_00: Discussions about mental health and conversation and words.
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SPEAKER_00: And I'll bring you... I'm going to jump ahead.
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SPEAKER_00: I was going to talk about this later, but I'm going to bring it up now.
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SPEAKER_00: My mother always told me that you can't control anyone else.
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SPEAKER_00: There's nothing you can do about what anyone else thinks, feels, or does.
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SPEAKER_00: All you have control over is how you respond.
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SPEAKER_00: And that's where I want to get to today because there is an awful lot of
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SPEAKER_00: controlling language about how we feel more comfortable
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SPEAKER_00: with other people's thoughts and feelings.
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SPEAKER_00: In this particular instance, the director wanted to control my thoughts.
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And I had trouble interpreting a rather literal direction into
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something that I
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SPEAKER_00: could find usable.
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SPEAKER_00: We talk a lot about how we use our words and how we communicate clearly.
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As a writer,
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we talk about how to make your message come across cleanly and efficiently.
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But we don't often talk about the second part of communication,
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which is how you receive.
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SPEAKER_00: Because however clear the person speaking is,
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there is equal amount of responsibility on the receiver to
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interpret information
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SPEAKER_00: that they're getting.
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SPEAKER_00: And the information you're getting isn't just the words.
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SPEAKER_00: You're also interpreting body language and vocal tone.
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SPEAKER_00: And you're interpreting context and history and...
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SPEAKER_00: What time of day it is and if anybody is hangry.
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There's so many things that go into how our nervous systems,
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how our bodies interpret messages.
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SPEAKER_00: And we need to take responsibility for how we receive messages.
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SPEAKER_00: Because that is ultimately going to be indicative of how we respond.
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SPEAKER_00: So let's try and make this a little more concrete.
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SPEAKER_00: I've been to several feedback sessions with different artist groups.
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And I have seen heavily moderated feedback sessions that have
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left me absolutely gobsmacked.
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SPEAKER_00: In particular,
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I remember one where the moderator came up after a piece of
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work and listed a bunch
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SPEAKER_00: of things that they did not want to hear before.
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SPEAKER_00: in the feedback session.
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And as a person in the audience who was eager to support the
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artist in where they
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SPEAKER_00: wanted to go,
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SPEAKER_00: I found myself frozen thinking,
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SPEAKER_00: oh my God,
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there's nothing I can say because the artist doesn't want to
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hear something
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SPEAKER_00: suggestions on what they could do.
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SPEAKER_00: The artist doesn't want to hear
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SPEAKER_00: any negative feedback.
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SPEAKER_00: The artist doesn't want to hear,
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like there was so much that was done to protect the artist from
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words that might
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SPEAKER_00: make them feel bad,
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SPEAKER_00: that the only thing left to say was,
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SPEAKER_00: I loved it.
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I especially loved the part where you did X.
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I loved the part where you did Y.
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SPEAKER_00: And how is that useful for an artist who's looking to better their work?
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SPEAKER_00: Are we really so fragile?
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I've even had directions that have said things like,
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we don't want any feedback about people.
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SPEAKER_00: The text.
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SPEAKER_00: We only want feedback about how you felt.
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SPEAKER_00: Oh, okay.
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So you end up spending all your time running your own thoughts
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and feelings through
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SPEAKER_00: a filter so as to not make the artist encounter difficulty.
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SPEAKER_00: We have to embrace difficulty, people.
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SPEAKER_00: This is important.
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SPEAKER_00: That's how we grow.
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SPEAKER_00: Mistakes.
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SPEAKER_00: No one's here to tear you down, especially in a feedback session.
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SPEAKER_00: We're all here in the interest of better art.
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SPEAKER_00: So you have to have some trust.
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And also you need to be able to create a filter of your own so
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that you can receive
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SPEAKER_00: with some discernment to bring back a topic from last week.
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For example,
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you have to be able to parse what the person giving feedback is
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working with.
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SPEAKER_00: In the instance of the director,
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SPEAKER_00: clearly the director had memories of their own childhood,
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SPEAKER_00: which if I did the math,
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I would have realized that during that time period was
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pre-puberty for this director.
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So I'm not sure that they had the best vantage point on the
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time period in terms of
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SPEAKER_00: sexual practice of teenagers at the time.
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SPEAKER_00: And even if they did,
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SPEAKER_00: it doesn't matter because it's about how I connected to the material,
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SPEAKER_00: not about their version of historical accuracy.
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So what I was butting heads with in that conversation was the
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director's personal experience.
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SPEAKER_00: If I was able to listen to where the director was coming from,
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SPEAKER_00: I could have just smiled and nodded,
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SPEAKER_00: interpreted it as,
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SPEAKER_00: oh,
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The director is only objecting to the perceptions I have in my
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head and isn't
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SPEAKER_00: objecting to my performance.
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SPEAKER_00: So I can keep doing what I'm doing.
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SPEAKER_00: In other instances,
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I've talked to actors a million times over who received
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direction that they had
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SPEAKER_00: difficulty understanding how to implement.
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where they've been told to motivate across here and they didn't
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understand why or
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SPEAKER_00: it didn't make sense to them internally.
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SPEAKER_00: And,
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SPEAKER_00: you know,
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SPEAKER_00: when really the director's like,
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SPEAKER_00: well,
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SPEAKER_00: you need to be over there so that when this thing happens,
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SPEAKER_00: you're not,
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SPEAKER_00: you know,
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SPEAKER_00: underneath a fallen column or,
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SPEAKER_00: you know,
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SPEAKER_00: whatever.
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SPEAKER_00: Your job is to take action
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to kind of peel away what is personal for that person who's
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giving you direction or feedback.
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SPEAKER_00: Reinterpret it to like, what do they mean?
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SPEAKER_00: What's their intention?
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SPEAKER_00: Because if,
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SPEAKER_00: oh,
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we need to find a way to motivate that cross so that it doesn't
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look robotic or like,
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SPEAKER_00: oh,
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SPEAKER_00: I was just told to move here.
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SPEAKER_00: I need to find a way
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SPEAKER_00: that my character would get over there,
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SPEAKER_00: then you say,
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SPEAKER_00: okay,
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SPEAKER_00: fine,
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SPEAKER_00: then I put something of meaning in that corner.
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SPEAKER_00: Either actual object or emotionally put something over there.
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SPEAKER_00: Whatever.
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SPEAKER_00: I don't want to get too deep into acting.
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SPEAKER_00: I know I'm kind of heavy on that right now.
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SPEAKER_00: But you need to reinterpret the message for...
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SPEAKER_00: For what is usable?
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SPEAKER_00: What is the nugget of truth that's available there?
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SPEAKER_00: Now, this is where I'm going to broaden things out.
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I had this really enlightening discussion this week where I was
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expressing that I
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SPEAKER_00: am so uncomfortable with
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SPEAKER_00: with,
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SPEAKER_00: you know,
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SPEAKER_00: the effusiveness in certain artistic spaces where everyone feels good,
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SPEAKER_00: like let's say after a performance or a particularly good work session.
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And artists can be very excited and complimentary and very
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loving in this space,
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SPEAKER_00: which I personally find confusing.
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Because I will often leave the space and expect that those deep
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expressions of love
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SPEAKER_00: means that I have someone who is,
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SPEAKER_00: you know,
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SPEAKER_00: a close friend or in my corner.
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SPEAKER_00: But if you've worked in,
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SPEAKER_00: you know,
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SPEAKER_00: especially in performing arts spaces,
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SPEAKER_00: oftentimes there's very little object permanence.
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SPEAKER_00: You know,
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SPEAKER_00: you love these people deeply,
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SPEAKER_00: but once the show closes and you don't see each other anymore,
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SPEAKER_00: you fall in love with a whole new cast.
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SPEAKER_00: And you might not see each other for years.
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So that friendship or those feelings of love are intense and
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they're real in the
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SPEAKER_00: moment and you mean it.
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SPEAKER_00: But where it goes afterward is always a bit of a crapshoot.
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SPEAKER_00: And I find myself very, very uncomfortable with that.
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SPEAKER_00: So this is what I'm going to ask from you.
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It is what was asked of me this week because I found it really
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instructive and interesting.
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I was asked to reinterpret these grandiose expressions that
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seem to come up in those spaces.
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SPEAKER_00: I'm going to offer them to you to see if they're at all useful for you.
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SPEAKER_00: So for example,
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SPEAKER_00: and this may be extreme for some people,
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SPEAKER_00: but I,
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SPEAKER_00: you know,
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SPEAKER_00: I can get feedback like,
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SPEAKER_00: oh,
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SPEAKER_00: I love you,
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SPEAKER_00: which is extremely confusing for my system.
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SPEAKER_00: So I went back and I thought,
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SPEAKER_00: well,
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what could that person be trying to express in that moment that
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comes out as I love you?
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SPEAKER_00: So I wrote down, I love you can mean
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SPEAKER_00: Being here with you right now feels amazing.
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SPEAKER_00: Your effort has given me too much joy to keep to myself.
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SPEAKER_00: This work we've done together has opened my heart.
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Now that makes me feel so much more comfortable because I can
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walk away knowing
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SPEAKER_00: that that I love you was encapsulated this deep feeling in the moment.
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SPEAKER_00: It's about everything.
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SPEAKER_00: The moment.
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SPEAKER_00: I mean, they may love me forever and I may love them.
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SPEAKER_00: I'm not the type of person to easily express that.
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SPEAKER_00: So I may say that a different way.
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SPEAKER_00: But that's okay.
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SPEAKER_00: We don't have to say it the same way.
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SPEAKER_00: But if I can receive it in that spirit, I can actually receive it.
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Whereas I love you,
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I will instinctually create space between myself and that person.
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SPEAKER_00: Because if I take those words on face value, I feel unsafe.
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SPEAKER_00: I feel like I might be being lied to.
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SPEAKER_00: I become distrustful.
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SPEAKER_00: But if I can make I love you about this amazing moment that we've shared,
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SPEAKER_00: that feels truthful and honest to me.
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SPEAKER_00: And I can accept that.
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SPEAKER_00: Other compliments that I have trouble with are,
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SPEAKER_00: you are,
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SPEAKER_00: and fill in the blank,
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SPEAKER_00: you're a powerhouse,
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SPEAKER_00: a dynamo,
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SPEAKER_00: whatever those highly complimentary things that I don't feel internally.
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If I can reinterpret that to mean,
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I am drinking in your energy right now.
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SPEAKER_00: I am grateful to you for creating space for me.
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SPEAKER_00: This collective vision is vibrating my soul and I see your contribution.
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SPEAKER_00: And I know that's a lot of words,
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but that's the way I can reinterpret that so that I can take
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that compliment as to
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be about this experience that we've shared that I've played a
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part in and it's not
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SPEAKER_00: a commentary on me forever.
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SPEAKER_00: Because if I am labeled a dynamo forever,
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that is extraordinarily uncomfortable and way too much pressure
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for me to handle.
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But if I could be exuding a certain energy that they enjoy and
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appreciate in that moment,
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SPEAKER_00: I can take that.
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SPEAKER_00: That is fine.
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SPEAKER_00: Another one that I have trouble with is, I don't know how you do it.
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That one really bothers me because I don't feel extraordinary
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and I don't want to
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SPEAKER_00: feel extraordinary.
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SPEAKER_00: As Maya Angelou says, don't pick it up, don't lay it down.
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SPEAKER_00: If you believe the good things they say about you,
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SPEAKER_00: you're going to have to take the bad things they say about you.
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SPEAKER_00: And that's too much for anyone.
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SPEAKER_00: But I don't know how you do it can mean
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SPEAKER_00: I see your effort.
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SPEAKER_00: And that feels good to me.
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I see your effort feels like,
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oh,
23:28
that's an acknowledgement that I worked hard.
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SPEAKER_00: And that I can take credit.
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SPEAKER_00: Oh, hopefully I didn't shake that microphone too much.
23:44
SPEAKER_00: Anyway,
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so these are the things that I've been thinking about this week
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as about reframing
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SPEAKER_00: and being a better listener.
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SPEAKER_00: Definitely,
23:55
SPEAKER_00: if you're on social media at all,
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SPEAKER_00: inside these sort of mental health spaces,
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they're definitely trying super hard to redefine the language
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we should use in
24:07
SPEAKER_00: social situations.
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SPEAKER_00: You know,
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there are things you're never supposed to say to express
24:15
condolences and never say
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SPEAKER_00: this to a child and never say this to a grownup.
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SPEAKER_00: And there are so many things that are just a part of our,
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SPEAKER_00: you know,
24:27
the ways that we've grown up expressing ourselves that are now
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verboten and evil.
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SPEAKER_00: And if you say those things, you are terrible.
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SPEAKER_00: But once again,
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SPEAKER_00: while I think it's important for us to be very,
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SPEAKER_00: very thoughtful about the way we express ourselves,
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SPEAKER_00: I think it's also really,
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SPEAKER_00: really important for the way we allow ourselves to receive.
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SPEAKER_00: Because as much as we don't want someone to deny our personhood,
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SPEAKER_00: We don't want to deny anyone their intention.
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SPEAKER_00: Because they have spirit too.
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SPEAKER_00: We need to stop being so afraid of words.
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SPEAKER_00: Because the words aren't the problem.
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SPEAKER_00: This one got pretty philosophical this week.
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But I think where we're talking about,
25:40
specifically about hearing feedback and direction.
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SPEAKER_00: Because all of us as artists, we receive feedback all the time.
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SPEAKER_00: And we should receive feedback all the time.
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SPEAKER_00: It's important.
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We should go ahead and try to find new ways to reinterpret
26:06
feedback so that it is usable.
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SPEAKER_00: To find the kernel of the message that someone's trying to give us.
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SPEAKER_00: That means you need to strip away the personal,
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SPEAKER_00: you know,
26:20
where they're coming at it from their own personal taste or
26:24
personal experience or
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SPEAKER_00: trauma or pain or joy or whatever.
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SPEAKER_00: Or I just really like salty and I just want everything to be salty.
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And once you strip away the personal and you strip away that
26:41
which is context of
26:46
SPEAKER_00: where we are in the world at this moment.
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And there is inside there a nugget of truth that you can take
26:53
and find action about.
26:58
And if you strip away all those things that are personal and
27:01
contextual and all of that,
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SPEAKER_00: and there is no nugget,
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SPEAKER_00: you do not have to take that direction.
27:12
SPEAKER_00: In fact, you are not required to take any direction at all.
27:16
SPEAKER_00: It's your art.
27:20
SPEAKER_00: You do what you want with it.
27:22
SPEAKER_00: I will add to that for a second.
27:28
SPEAKER_00: that you do need to take direction as an actor.
27:34
However,
27:35
you can interpret that direction in something that is useful to you.
27:42
SPEAKER_00: But you don't have to take it verbatim.
27:45
SPEAKER_00: You don't have to take it literally.
27:48
You need to run it through your own system and find where you
27:54
can be in collaboration with
27:57
SPEAKER_00: with the director.
28:02
SPEAKER_00: Your job is to get yourself to yes.
28:06
SPEAKER_00: Yes, I can do that.
28:09
SPEAKER_00: And as for just casual feedback from onlookers,
28:14
SPEAKER_00: from audience members,
28:17
SPEAKER_00: you can go ahead and take that to mean
28:25
SPEAKER_00: something else.
28:26
SPEAKER_00: For example, and I will stop harping on this.
28:30
SPEAKER_00: I just think it's really important and I want to be clear.
28:32
I had some feedback recently from an audience member who was like,
28:41
I didn't get this.
28:42
SPEAKER_00: I didn't get that.
28:44
SPEAKER_00: These things were all complicated.
28:47
SPEAKER_00: And the audience member had mentioned all of these things that were
28:55
SPEAKER_00: present in the text they encountered.
29:01
And I went away and I was troubled by it and I thought about it
29:06
and I went,
29:08
SPEAKER_00: oh,
29:09
SPEAKER_00: these are all things that would have benefited from visual cues,
29:20
SPEAKER_00: something that they weren't getting in a reading context.
29:24
And that calmed my spirit because all the things they mentioned
29:31
were in the text,
29:32
SPEAKER_00: but I also knew that this person is very visually oriented.
29:38
And imagine just receiving the text read aloud would have been
29:46
difficult for this
29:47
SPEAKER_00: person because that's not how their brain works.
29:51
So I didn't get upset with this person for missing everything
29:55
that was in the text.
29:57
SPEAKER_00: What I took away from it was that,
29:59
SPEAKER_00: oh,
30:00
this person would have really benefited from the visual support
30:04
of a full production.
30:09
SPEAKER_00: And that's valid.
30:12
SPEAKER_00: That's totally valid.
30:13
SPEAKER_00: But it's different than, oh, this script doesn't work.
30:20
SPEAKER_00: It was, oh, hearing this script was hard for me to visualize.
30:24
SPEAKER_00: It's a very different piece of feedback.
30:29
SPEAKER_00: And that's where we have to become better receivers of information.
30:38
SPEAKER_00: So for this week,
30:41
SPEAKER_00: I'm going to urge you to think about feedback,
30:45
SPEAKER_00: comments that you get a lot,
30:48
SPEAKER_00: either in your life or in your work.
30:52
SPEAKER_00: And how can you reinterpret that in a way that helps you receive it?
31:05
SPEAKER_00: So that's the assignment for this week.
31:09
SPEAKER_00: Like I did with those compliments that I had difficulty receiving,
31:14
you too can take those things that you receive throughout your
31:20
work and daily life
31:22
and recontextualize them in a way that you can receive them
31:28
with your full heart.
31:32
SPEAKER_00: That's it.
31:33
SPEAKER_00: So please remember that these episodes are free and shareable.
31:38
SPEAKER_00: So if you found this useful at all, please share with a friend.
31:44
SPEAKER_00: We would like to keep this podcast going.
31:48
SPEAKER_00: And you can also find...
31:52
Written work here on Unreliable Narrator,
31:55
which is also part of the same Substack universe.
31:59
And if you want to become a paid subscriber and support both
32:03
Unreliable Narrator
32:05
SPEAKER_00: and The Imperfect Impulse,
32:07
SPEAKER_00: and...
32:08
SPEAKER_00: Ultimately,
32:09
SPEAKER_00: your cash will go to support Playful Substance,
32:13
SPEAKER_00: our developmental theater company here in New York City,
32:17
SPEAKER_00: and our writers' programs,
32:19
SPEAKER_00: and all of its subsidiary endeavors.
32:26
SPEAKER_00: That's it for me.
32:28
SPEAKER_00: Thank you for joining me on The Imperfect Impulse.
32:32
SPEAKER_00: We'll talk again next week.