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Micro Ways we Micromanage Others · The Habit Lab

1:08
SPEAKER_00: We all have areas in our life we might feel stuck or overwhelmed.
1:12
SPEAKER_00: So join me, Jenna Zint, habit coach, teacher, and follower of Jesus, as we go after little bits of better by building offensively small habits that create big impact.
1:23
SPEAKER_00: This is the Habit Lab Podcast.
1:30
SPEAKER_00: Welcome to Habit Lab.
1:32
SPEAKER_00: I'm forget which forgot what podcast I was on for a second there.
1:35
SPEAKER_00: Um I am Jenna Zint, and yes, we do have a couple podcasts.
1:38
SPEAKER_00: My husband and I have a relationship one called Marriage Lab.
1:40
SPEAKER_00: So it gets confusing, y'all.
1:43
SPEAKER_00: Um, anyways, welcome.
1:45
SPEAKER_00: I'm very excited you're here.
1:47
SPEAKER_00: This episode is called Micro Ways.
1:49
SPEAKER_00: We micromanage our spouse.
1:51
SPEAKER_00: And it made me giggle.
1:52
SPEAKER_00: I've been messing and tweaking the outline for a couple days now, and I've been giggling at the name.
1:58
SPEAKER_00: Like micro waves.
1:59
SPEAKER_00: Haha.
2:00
SPEAKER_00: We micromanage our husband.
2:02
SPEAKER_00: Nope.
2:04
SPEAKER_00: I should just read what I actually wrote.
2:06
SPEAKER_00: Um, but this comes from it's been fun.
2:09
SPEAKER_00: I have one week under my belt with my new wives course.
2:12
SPEAKER_00: We had our first week.
2:12
SPEAKER_00: It was awesome.
2:13
SPEAKER_00: The Holy Spirit was there really strong and it was wonderful.
2:16
SPEAKER_00: And I had 52 slides, y'all, but I've changed my approach instead of having one slide with a bunch of points on it.
2:22
SPEAKER_00: I kind of have a point per slide because visually I think it's a little more interesting if you're sitting for an hour and a half to have something to look at that changes.
2:28
SPEAKER_00: Anyways, I you did not need to know all that, but I was proud.
2:32
SPEAKER_00: I made it through on time, y'all.
2:33
SPEAKER_00: That was a little bit of a Christmas miracle or just a Jesus miracle.
2:37
SPEAKER_00: Um, okay, so part of that discussion and some of the great conversation, and then when I was building some of my um content for weeks to come, I was like, oh, there's actually a a big old list of subtle ways that I've realized and noticed spouse patterns.
2:54
SPEAKER_00: I don't think it's always just the woman to the male.
2:56
SPEAKER_00: I watch it both ways, um, where we just micromanage in our marriage.
3:02
SPEAKER_00: And it's tricky because I mean, I wouldn't say it's just unique to marriage.
3:05
SPEAKER_00: I actually have watched coworkers do this and brothers or siblings, and so I mean, like I guess you could actually just micromanage anybody in these ways.
3:14
SPEAKER_00: Um, and sometimes I think where it's tricky and not as overt is that it looks like helping, or it could look like being responsible or being efficient or um catching something your spouse missed or preventing messes, keeping the family moving.
3:31
SPEAKER_00: And I think I think a lot of people genuinely believe that you have to like they're helpful on some level or they're pushing the ball forward, I would say.
3:44
SPEAKER_00: Like this list I'm gonna get into today.
3:46
SPEAKER_00: A lot of them are my list for my own, I always tease my own diary.
3:50
SPEAKER_00: I'll probably giggle as I'm like, yep, okay, I'm calling myself out there, did that a couple days ago.
3:56
SPEAKER_00: But um, I think some of the like beliefs around where this list comes from is if we don't remind them, they'll forget.
4:03
SPEAKER_00: If we don't follow up, it won't get done.
4:05
SPEAKER_00: If we don't correct it, it'll get done wrong.
4:08
SPEAKER_00: If we don't help think this through, then something will fall through the cracks.
4:12
SPEAKER_00: And honestly, sometimes, I would say even oftentimes, especially if you're married to someone with ADHD, that can be real history.
4:20
SPEAKER_00: But it doesn't mean these strategies are helpful for connection.
4:26
SPEAKER_00: So there's a point where I think you like, I'm the Lord, that's a new as an episode to come, but where the Lord convicted me, he's like, maybe, like, maybe Aaron would forget all that stuff, but is it worth the connection it cost you?
4:36
SPEAKER_00: And I remember being like, Well, I wish Aaron would get to the spot where it wouldn't offend him or he wouldn't feel like it was controlling.
4:41
SPEAKER_00: And the Lord was like, Okay, so you wished it wouldn't hurt your connection.
4:46
SPEAKER_00: Well, why wouldn't you be willing to consider not doing it if it hurts your connection?
4:50
SPEAKER_00: And it was this kind of blatant, like, oh, I'm at a stalemate.
4:53
SPEAKER_00: I'm trying to point the finger at Aaron by like, don't be offended at these things.
4:58
SPEAKER_00: And the Lord's like, Why aren't you just stop doing these things then?
5:00
SPEAKER_00: Like, okay, I see what you did there.
5:03
SPEAKER_00: Um, but even when the intention's good, a repeated pattern of correcting and monitoring and rescuing and improving and follow-up, follow up, you know, like following up can totally shift the relationship from a partnership where you're actually allowed to choose how you execute whatever tasks you pick up or have on your plate into supervision.
5:25
SPEAKER_00: And over time, the message starts to sound more like, you know, when we do these little this list of some of the microwaves we micromanage, it starts to sound like I don't trust you to handle this.
5:35
SPEAKER_00: I know better.
5:37
SPEAKER_00: Sometimes, like eventually down the road, if it goes on long enough, I am better.
5:41
SPEAKER_00: Uh, your way isn't good enough.
5:43
SPEAKER_00: You fail every time you do this.
5:45
SPEAKER_00: I need to stay involved for this to go well.
5:47
SPEAKER_00: If I don't do it or stay with you, it's gonna be a mess.
5:51
SPEAKER_00: Um, and that legitimately only breeds resentment on both sides, though.
5:55
SPEAKER_00: That's the irony, is it's both sides.
5:57
SPEAKER_00: One spouse feels managed, micromanaged, and the other one feels increasingly responsible, like more exhausted and more burned out and more alone, usually, which is ironic.
6:08
SPEAKER_00: So the very thing they think we think these behaviors are gonna get us, it's almost like whenever anything's deceptive, it gives us the opposite fruit, but we keep using them because we think maybe it'll work this time, you know?
6:20
SPEAKER_00: So as you're listening to my list, I would like you to reflect and ask yourself some questions, but I want to be really clear.
6:28
SPEAKER_00: You guys know that I'm not I'm not a fan of condemnation.
6:33
SPEAKER_00: So this is not another opportunity to grade yourself.
6:36
SPEAKER_00: I just want you to be curious.
6:37
SPEAKER_00: And even like I actually think there's such, I mean, not Jenna's idea.
6:41
SPEAKER_00: There is a beautiful, healthy way when we like understand and love the Lord's discipline that conviction is so different than condemnation, you know?
6:50
SPEAKER_00: So conviction is like, oh, yep, I do quite a lot of these.
6:53
SPEAKER_00: I need to start looking at some of my heart posture, or I want to get Holy Spirit like help me get better in the moment and notice that I'm doing these versus bad wife, bad bad spouse, whatever.
7:02
SPEAKER_00: So don't grade yourself, but be curious if you notice a lot or if Holy Spirit, if you feel the sweet, truly sweet sting of conviction, like, oh, no problem.
7:12
SPEAKER_00: That means that there's probably a better way to do what you're doing versus you're failing, you're bad, you know?
7:18
SPEAKER_00: Okay, so some of the questions I'd like you to listen for in my list is which one of these do you do the most often?
7:24
SPEAKER_00: What are you afraid of would happen if you stop doing them?
7:28
SPEAKER_00: Do you genuinely believe your spouse needs to manage you or you need needs to be managed in this area?
7:36
SPEAKER_00: Do you, if that's the case, is there a an unspoken belief that you think your spouse is incompetent?
7:43
SPEAKER_00: These are questions the Lord has asked me, y'all.
7:46
SPEAKER_00: So I'm sorry if they hurt so good.
7:48
SPEAKER_00: Um did he ask me to help him?
7:51
SPEAKER_00: Did he ask me, did he invite me in to helping f for my help or feedback or input?
7:58
SPEAKER_00: And then am I relating to my husband right now or am I managing him?
8:03
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
8:03
SPEAKER_00: And of course, there's a whole side, and sorry, I'm saying husband because you know, it's me over here, but like I said, this could be applicable to anyone.
8:11
SPEAKER_00: Um, not all of these behaviors are like definitely intrinsic well, I don't want to say that.
8:17
SPEAKER_00: I just want the point is to simply notice what's happening and what's popping up and noticing how often these behaviors are actually tied to micromanaging someone else's half.
8:28
SPEAKER_00: Okay, number one, scoffing, eye rolling, or like the quick cough, like, whoo, okay.
8:35
SPEAKER_00: So for instance, he says he's gonna leave at eight.
8:38
SPEAKER_00: You know he usually runs late, which is ironic.
8:40
SPEAKER_00: I shouldn't have chosen this example because it's me.
8:42
SPEAKER_00: Um, but you given the little, how about this?
8:44
SPEAKER_00: I know that they have to leave at eight, and I can see that none of the kids are ready.
8:48
SPEAKER_00: And he's like, okay, let's go.
8:50
SPEAKER_00: And like nobody's hair has been brushed.
8:51
SPEAKER_00: It's crazy, but he's probably gonna go.
8:53
SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, mmm, you're gonna go out, you're gonna leave by eight with those without brushing.
9:00
SPEAKER_00: Can you imagine?
9:01
SPEAKER_00: Like, I bet you've done this.
9:02
SPEAKER_00: We're like, oh, okay.
9:04
SPEAKER_00: Or um he loads the dishwasher different than you expect.
9:09
SPEAKER_00: He folds the towels in a different way and you visibly wince.
9:13
SPEAKER_00: And you think it's most of the time, it's because we like we would say our way is the right way.
9:16
SPEAKER_00: And I'm sure you have a great logic for why your way is better or superior or helpful or more efficient, or you know, we won't even go into judgment land.
9:23
SPEAKER_00: But when you wince or you scoff or you make a noise like that, you are losing a helper because of this micromanagement.
9:30
SPEAKER_00: It's like slowly diminishing the very thing that you want to be thriving internally.
9:35
SPEAKER_00: Like, I want to help her.
9:36
SPEAKER_00: Um, and technically, obviously, you didn't say anything, but your face and your sounds absolutely submitted feedback there.
9:42
SPEAKER_00: Okay, number list number two: micro ways we micromanage unnecessary correcting.
9:49
SPEAKER_00: Um, something like we went there Tuesday, and you jump in and say Wednesday.
9:54
SPEAKER_00: You tell a story where maybe there's some details about who was in the room, and it actually doesn't impact the story or whether all the kids were there or just two of the kids and one was at a play date, and you actually interrupt with, well, actually, and what we think we're doing sometimes I would say is, oh, I don't want it to lie.
10:14
SPEAKER_00: Actually, this was more um Aaron and I Aaron had to I had to have a conversation with Aaron about this back in the day about him doing it to me.
10:21
SPEAKER_00: I was like, for sure, if I if it's an exaggeration, or even actually, I think we just started with, could you tell me after the fact?
10:28
SPEAKER_00: Like, or can you give me a choice to tell for sure when he didn't interrupt me in front of other people or anything else?
10:35
SPEAKER_00: It was it was like a slap in the face, especially when it wasn't a detail that changed the story.
10:40
SPEAKER_00: And I think sometimes the assumption is like, I don't want you to be a liar, I'm trying to help you be integrous, but the idea of those corrections usually often are not you're you are sending a message about their being unintegrous or making them feel like an idiot or embarrassed in front of people um with this com inner compulsion to make the act the record accurate.
11:04
SPEAKER_00: So Aaron and I got, I think our agreement was hey, like if I'm saying something that is in true untrue, if like as in not inaccurate, so I want to notice the difference because some of you maybe who are more like Aaron, who are great with really good detail-oriented people, and then some of you who's spouses are like me, and I'm like, I'm not purposely trying to misquote this or tell the story wrong in detail, but um, and then honestly, there's a gray where maybe there is an exaggeration.
11:30
SPEAKER_00: So that's why I told Aaron, I was like, hey, if I get the story wrong and it seems like I'm exaggerating, like I'm making someone worse look worse, or me look better, or the story grander than it is, yes, I want to hear the details, like correct me then.
11:45
SPEAKER_00: But if it's six versus seven, if it's, you know, like leaving at six o'clock versus seven o'clock, if it's if one kid was missing and it it actually doesn't hit those components, please don't correct me because I I feel embarrassed and micromanaged by your corrections.
11:56
SPEAKER_00: So noticing that, um remember when you were, or sorry, I meant to say reminding them when you were never asked to be the reminder, the embodied Alexa or calendar invite.
12:10
SPEAKER_00: So don't forget to call your mom.
12:12
SPEAKER_00: Remember you have that appointment tomorrow.
12:13
SPEAKER_00: Did you take the trash out?
12:15
SPEAKER_00: Blah, blah, blah, all the things.
12:17
SPEAKER_00: Just reminding you again that we meet when that we need to leave tomorrow at six.
12:20
SPEAKER_00: Sometimes for sure, those reminders are loving, but when they're not mutually agreed upon and there's a history here, um, it can actually feel like poking at something.
12:30
SPEAKER_00: And what it doesn't do is feel empowered.
12:34
SPEAKER_00: Like the person who is getting those reminders they never asked for, they feel like someone employed it's like someone made themselves the secretary of your life.
12:43
SPEAKER_00: Hey, I maybe your heart is awesome.
12:46
SPEAKER_00: It does not mean that it feels awesome to have it done to you.
12:50
SPEAKER_00: So I think sometimes we misconstrue.
12:52
SPEAKER_00: Like, there's been times on this list with Aaron, I'm like, well, my heart isn't to control you or micromanage you.
12:55
SPEAKER_00: And he's like, again, going back to what the Lord said and the confrontation I had with him, and he was like, but I feel that way.
13:01
SPEAKER_00: So then being like, okay, if that's how it feels, I will change.
13:05
SPEAKER_00: I care more about changing my verbiage or my behavior than I do dying on this hill of, well, you're the wrong one because it you don't like it when that's not in my heart.
13:15
SPEAKER_00: Like, actually, I don't think that's what love looks like looks like, you know?
13:19
SPEAKER_00: Um, so and then Aaron has there are ones for me that with lateness that I've had to, I'm like, hey, I think, I really believe your heart is for me.
13:28
SPEAKER_00: But every time you try to help me get out the door on the time with whatever it was that way, um, I don't, I just get triggered.
13:36
SPEAKER_00: Can we try something else?
13:37
SPEAKER_00: Or would you mind not doing that?
13:38
SPEAKER_00: And it the cost is real.
13:40
SPEAKER_00: I think that's sometimes we realize we do these micromanagement behaviors because there's a cost.
13:44
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, totally, there's also a cost to connection when you do it.
13:47
SPEAKER_00: Like, choose your cost.
13:48
SPEAKER_00: Or like sometimes the Lord was like, Are you saying connections less valuable to you than a mess?
13:54
SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, Okay, Holy Spirit, okay.
13:58
SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah, so reminding someone when you were never asked to be their reminder, self-emplointed secretary when they're not looking for a secretary.
14:06
SPEAKER_00: Um, checking up and following up, that would be a great example of did you email that person?
14:11
SPEAKER_00: Did it get sent?
14:12
SPEAKER_00: Did you pay that bill?
14:14
SPEAKER_00: Um, really, like I'm gathering information.
14:17
SPEAKER_00: Again, these aren't that's not intrinsically bad, but if it's a pattern and it's painful, I would say get actually the Lord at one point was like, get the fee, the late fee, if he forgot, versus reminding him 10 times.
14:30
SPEAKER_00: That$30 late fee is not gonna hurt your marital connection, but the sting will do something that your words can't do.
14:38
SPEAKER_00: That's your words in the reminder of the thing is going to cost connection.
14:44
SPEAKER_00: Not sure how effective it is in him learning the lesson to not be late for the thing.
14:48
SPEAKER_00: But that late fee, let the late fee be the bad guy.
14:50
SPEAKER_00: Don't be the bad guy.
14:51
SPEAKER_00: Let let the mess happen.
14:53
SPEAKER_00: There sometimes is like this fear I've noticed of like, if I don't check up, I don't follow up, there's gonna be a mess.
14:58
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, let the mess be the one that is his teacher, not me, you know?
15:02
SPEAKER_00: Um, oh, this one's a good one.
15:04
SPEAKER_00: Improving his method while he's doing it.
15:08
SPEAKER_00: It's like helping in the kitchen and they're cutting stuff.
15:11
SPEAKER_00: Like, no, you should cut it this way.
15:12
SPEAKER_00: Or um, it works better if you start upstairs, or you gotta you gotta do their hair before you take off or do her their hair after you take off their pajamas because it's gonna mess it up.
15:23
SPEAKER_00: And what again, what we're not saying, you're probably listening, you're like, that is true though, right, y'all?
15:27
SPEAKER_00: That's why I used to say is so much.
15:29
SPEAKER_00: No, I'm kidding.
15:30
SPEAKER_00: But um, the reality of oh, I'd rather her if she hasn't messy enough hair and the hair gets undone when he does it before pajamas, he's gonna learn that in a way that me giving it to him is not again, not the teacher, not the not the manager mode.
15:48
SPEAKER_00: Um, and it's also so I don't know, if humiliating or dem, I was gonna say demasculating, but that that is true.
15:55
SPEAKER_00: Um, so sometimes being like, I'm okay if his method's not the best.
15:59
SPEAKER_00: I'm okay if there's flaw, if I can see clear flaws in his method, I would rather him feel them than me interrupt him and lose a helper, or maybe he doesn't get that triggered, then send uh your inferior message.
16:14
SPEAKER_00: Even if that's not my heart.
16:16
SPEAKER_00: Remember, guys, we're talking about the difference between what's in your heart and the message received.
16:20
SPEAKER_00: And we care about, I always remind myself, I care about impact even if that wasn't my intent.
16:25
SPEAKER_00: I care about impact.
16:27
SPEAKER_00: So some of these micromanagement ones, you're like, oh, that's not my intent.
16:30
SPEAKER_00: Totally.
16:31
SPEAKER_00: But because we're people who are growing in our ability to love better, we do care about impact, even if intent is is pure hearted.
16:40
SPEAKER_00: Um, okay, pre-correcting.
16:42
SPEAKER_00: This one's sneaky because nothing's gone wrong yet.
16:45
SPEAKER_00: So an example would be like when you talk to them, make sure you don't bring up the whore, their horse that died last year.
16:54
SPEAKER_00: That was a weird, weird reach.
16:56
SPEAKER_00: I was like, I just left it blank.
16:57
SPEAKER_00: What should I say?
16:58
SPEAKER_00: Um, or make sure you give Wesley his water bottle, or don't let them stay up too late, you know.
17:04
SPEAKER_00: Again, it's kind of the same one of like correcting or improving the method mid.
17:08
SPEAKER_00: This is like pre-correcting.
17:09
SPEAKER_00: And true, like if he lets them stay up too late, this would be me more, Aaron used to, you know, and has stopped.
17:16
SPEAKER_00: Um, the grumpy kids the next morning gets to be the teacher, not your pre-correction that costs connection and is micromanaging, is undermining some of the partnership you're actually looking for.
17:29
SPEAKER_00: Um, another one would be answering for him.
17:32
SPEAKER_00: Y'all, with ADHD, this is probably one of my worst.
17:34
SPEAKER_00: I don't mean to, I do it for my kids too.
17:36
SPEAKER_00: And then have you like the adults who are trying to be intentional, they'll ask my kid a question.
17:41
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, ninth grade.
17:42
SPEAKER_00: I mean, no one's in ninth grade.
17:43
SPEAKER_00: Why did I say ninth grade?
17:44
SPEAKER_00: Seventh grade.
17:45
SPEAKER_00: You know, what grade are you in, Audrey?
17:46
SPEAKER_00: And I just yell, seventh grade.
17:47
SPEAKER_00: And they look at me and then they ask, that's great, or they say, That's great, Audrey.
17:52
SPEAKER_00: And I feel shame.
17:53
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that would probably be an example of micromanagement.
17:55
SPEAKER_00: But, anyways, and I'm like, oh yeah, because I have impulse control and my mouth runs a mile, a million miles a minute.
18:01
SPEAKER_00: Sometimes I do answer for him unintentionally, but I watch him get shut down and feel like he has a mom, or his voice doesn't matter.
18:09
SPEAKER_00: Like, again, not my intent, but I care about impact.
18:13
SPEAKER_00: So um, someone asking, what do you want to do, what do you want to do this weekend, or what are you guys doing this weekend?
18:17
SPEAKER_00: And you saying, and you giving your list of plans, or what are your hobbies?
18:22
SPEAKER_00: And then you answering, he doesn't have any hop hobbies, or the doctor or professionals asking them questions and you answering.
18:28
SPEAKER_00: Um, man, I used to do this with waiters.
18:30
SPEAKER_00: This was probably one of my bigger ones.
18:32
SPEAKER_00: Uh gosh, it's it's so bad.
18:34
SPEAKER_00: But explaining who he is, answering for him again, your manager, I mean, I would say parent, child sometimes.
18:43
SPEAKER_00: So just whether he gives the right answers or not, whether he misses the question or not, let him be the one to own his portion of the conversation.
18:51
SPEAKER_00: And sometimes I just have to be quiet.
18:53
SPEAKER_00: And sometimes people miss like sometimes there's definitely instances where I think maybe they think, you know, like I'm trying to think of something that Aaron might be misconstrued for.
19:02
SPEAKER_00: He's more stoic or he's not as engaged, or he missed something they said.
19:06
SPEAKER_00: So like maybe they think he wasn't interested in them, but I'm like, I actually care, I'm more valued letting him have his voice and him own his half than I am stopping him from mistakes that might reflect on us or family.
19:20
SPEAKER_00: Because they'll work itself out on in the wash.
19:22
SPEAKER_00: Like someone, there's too many misunderstandings for that happen for me in people for me to try to climb out over his half and manage the potential misunderstandings and conversation by answering for him too.
19:33
SPEAKER_00: Um, oh, this one's a big one.
19:35
SPEAKER_00: Redoing what they already did.
19:37
SPEAKER_00: This would be like, I just told you the towels that were folded and you refolded them, or the children that were dressed and you changed the outfit.
19:44
SPEAKER_00: Oh, y'all, it was me.
19:46
SPEAKER_00: Especially the outfit thing.
19:47
SPEAKER_00: There'd be some times where I'm like, no.
19:50
SPEAKER_00: Um, so most of the time, I won't redo it.
19:55
SPEAKER_00: Most of the time, it is, I would say it is uh I was trying to think of the way.
19:59
SPEAKER_00: It's not when it's not the way I'd want it, or something is fall.
20:04
SPEAKER_00: Okay, let me give you an example of like maybe sometimes, like if I do have to, like, say for instance, the kids are dressed, like they have PE a couple days a week and they have to wear tennis shoes, and maybe he got them dressed and they have sandals on.
20:15
SPEAKER_00: And I feel so grateful.
20:16
SPEAKER_00: I actually, if I ever have to, like that would be almost like a circumstantial thing, um, because I've gone after this and stop redoing what he did and letting it be a mess, or not a mess, that's too judgmental, but like letting it not be my way.
22:16
SPEAKER_00: It's not my way or the highway.
22:18
SPEAKER_00: And if I want to say, but that works best for ourselves, or I've heard so many excuses are that's how our drawers work, no problem.
22:24
SPEAKER_00: If you asked him to do the laundry, let him do the laundry.
22:26
SPEAKER_00: You're gonna lose a laundry helper if you keep redoing what his help is.
22:32
SPEAKER_00: But, anyways, with the if I do have to correct something, so going back to the PE on a certain day and having sandals on, I will affirm and be genuinely grateful before I say something.
22:43
SPEAKER_00: So I would be like, oh babe, thank you so much for getting like truly, I do this all the time.
22:47
SPEAKER_00: This is like a script for me.
22:48
SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for um getting the kids dressed.
22:51
SPEAKER_00: I really appreciate it.
22:52
SPEAKER_00: And you even got their shoes like on 10 minutes early.
22:55
SPEAKER_00: Like you are so much better at this than I am, like leaving on time.
22:59
SPEAKER_00: And then I would say, um, I was remembering that Rosie has PE today, and I like one of the requirements is she has to have tennis shoes, and then I'll just leave it there.
23:09
SPEAKER_00: And then he could do with it what he wants, but instead of it's gratitude, it's same team, it's acknowledging partnership versus just fixing mistakes.
23:17
SPEAKER_00: Um let's see.
23:24
SPEAKER_00: Oh, turning like a list of things that need to happen into assignments.
23:30
SPEAKER_00: The trash needs to go out, someone needs to unload the dishwasher, you need to call the uh insurance company tomorrow.
23:36
SPEAKER_00: It sounds pretty neutral, but um gosh, if you already are struggling with a spouse feeling controlled or someone being exhausted or overworked or feeling nagged, it just it cues up in that way.
23:49
SPEAKER_00: So sometimes what we'll do is I'll we'll do like a brain dump.
23:51
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, okay, we have a lot on our plate as a family before we leave for church.
23:55
SPEAKER_00: Can we do a brain dump of what we need to do and then we decide who takes what?
23:58
SPEAKER_00: So at least it's like the dignity, the little phrase in my head with the Lord, which again I'm sure doesn't hit Aaron awesome all the time, is giving him the dignity to collaborate and then we choose the dignity to choose what we want to do versus almost like passive aggressively throwing these things out that are really actually assignments in order.
24:17
SPEAKER_00: So um I think oh, one last I have like two more that I'll do.
24:24
SPEAKER_00: Turning preferences into the way, the truth, and the light.
24:29
SPEAKER_00: So you can't put the groceries away like that.
24:32
SPEAKER_00: Or, like for instance, when we get the groceries, I have containers in my pantry.
24:36
SPEAKER_00: I have like a I'm on the lower end of a container girl, because I I don't do a ton of extra work, but we have flour and sugar and some essential like jars and whatever.
24:45
SPEAKER_00: Um, but when Aaron puts the groceries away, he doesn't usually actually take put the stuff in those things.
24:49
SPEAKER_00: And sometimes I really, really want to say something, and then the other times.
24:54
SPEAKER_00: He's watched me do it and he's like, Oh, is that where we put the, you know, like pancake?
24:58
SPEAKER_00: And internally, guys, you know, girls, you know this if this would be true.
25:01
SPEAKER_00: Are you kidding?
25:02
SPEAKER_00: We've had the pancake mix container for three years.
25:06
SPEAKER_00: Is this surprising?
25:07
SPEAKER_00: But on the other side, instead of gosh, turning it into a preference, I'm like, I feel grateful.
25:12
SPEAKER_00: Like, I actually feel genuinely grateful he put away the groceries.
25:15
SPEAKER_00: If I did not, if he did not, I would be the one doing it all.
25:19
SPEAKER_00: And I would rather keep that kind of help going.
25:22
SPEAKER_00: And almost um in my habit lab, I talk about with yourself wanting to encourage the behavior you want to see more of.
25:27
SPEAKER_00: And I think of that with spouse help too.
25:29
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, yep, I actually would love for Aaron to keep putting the groceries away.
25:33
SPEAKER_00: So most of the time I'm probably not going to give him feedback when things are slightly in the wrong spot.
25:37
SPEAKER_00: If I can't find him, I'll ask later and he'll tell me.
25:40
SPEAKER_00: But I don't tisk, I don't say that's not the right spot.
25:43
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, I'm I over here am too tired to be picky with the help.
25:47
SPEAKER_00: I feel grateful for the help.
25:50
SPEAKER_00: Um trying to think, any other thing on my list?
25:59
SPEAKER_00: Managing their emotions.
26:00
SPEAKER_00: That's probably like being, I kinda think of it like being upset that they're upset, or why are you upset?
26:06
SPEAKER_00: Or you shouldn't be stressed out right now.
26:08
SPEAKER_00: Or come on, get excited with me.
26:11
SPEAKER_00: You should be excited, shooting someone into emotions, or I always tease being offended at their emotions, or um, I'm disappointed at your disappointment, or I'm sad, you know, maybe they're sad that you're uh not doing a date night and doing a family movie night, and then you're sad that they're sad because they should be happy about a family movie night.
26:29
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, oh, okay, that's micromanagement.
26:31
SPEAKER_00: He as an adult gets to have his own emotional experience.
26:34
SPEAKER_00: I'm not gonna shut it down.
26:35
SPEAKER_00: Sometimes it splashes on me, but I'm not gonna manage his emotions for him.
26:41
SPEAKER_00: Uh let's see.
26:45
SPEAKER_00: Oh, this one's really hard for me still.
26:48
SPEAKER_00: Giving unrequested coaching.
26:51
SPEAKER_00: He tells you about a conflict at work, or Aaron and I were discussing some of the ministry he leads and some of the pivots he needs, and I was listening to him, and I had to bite my tongue.
26:59
SPEAKER_00: Because y'all, I coach for a living.
27:03
SPEAKER_00: It is so hard.
27:04
SPEAKER_00: I actually have to work this in friendship.
27:06
SPEAKER_00: I like will say before my friendship walks.
27:08
SPEAKER_00: You are a friend, not a coach.
27:10
SPEAKER_00: Do not give unsolicited advice.
27:11
SPEAKER_00: People do not enjoy unsolicited advice.
27:13
SPEAKER_00: When someone is paying you, that is solicited advice.
27:15
SPEAKER_00: Feel free to give, give there.
27:17
SPEAKER_00: Your husband is looking to be heard and known.
27:20
SPEAKER_00: He is not looking for solutions right now.
27:21
SPEAKER_00: Do not give him solutions by micromanaging him, or you will lose his heart.
27:25
SPEAKER_00: Like, not like he's gonna take his heart elsewhere, but it shuts down unsolicited advice, and coaching shut down um vulnerability.
27:32
SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, I actually want to start.
27:34
SPEAKER_00: So I was listening and I about some of the things he was brainstorming, and I had four answers, and I was like, I want to tell him, I want to coach him so bad.
27:42
SPEAKER_00: I want to do it.
27:43
SPEAKER_00: And I just felt Holy Spirit be like, nope, just listen.
27:46
SPEAKER_00: That's okay.
27:47
SPEAKER_00: And this urgency, I felt like honestly, going back to heart posture, not bad.
27:51
SPEAKER_00: I was like, oh, I feel sad that I could see an easy way out when this is causing him pain.
27:56
SPEAKER_00: I want to help alleviate the pain.
27:58
SPEAKER_00: So it wasn't even malicious, like it wasn't ego at that point.
28:01
SPEAKER_00: Um, but the Holy Spirit was like, nope, and I'm getting way better at this.
28:05
SPEAKER_00: And then fast forward, y'all, the next day, or yeah, the next morning, he was like on the when he left, he was like, Hey, I'd like to call you and brainstorm um some of those things I'm looking for solutions.
28:15
SPEAKER_00: Would you be able to, would you be able to help me?
28:16
SPEAKER_00: Like, I think with our brains combined, you can give me some tips, like you're put on your coaching hat or something like that.
28:21
SPEAKER_00: And I literally was like, oh, this is what I wanted.
28:24
SPEAKER_00: And Holy Spirit was like, and if you didn't use self-control and you interjected coaching last night, you would not have gotten invited into it and asked.
28:31
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, oh, you're so good, Holy Spirit.
28:33
SPEAKER_00: You're right.
28:34
SPEAKER_00: I don't want to micromanage him.
28:35
SPEAKER_00: I want to be invited into a partnership, not supervision role that no one wants, you know, when there's a discrepancy there.
28:43
SPEAKER_00: And then the last thing I was gonna say, oh, then we got we got on a phone call that afternoon, like a 10-minute during 10 minutes of his break at work.
28:49
SPEAKER_00: And then fast forward by the end of the day, he sent me this text about how grateful he was about my help and my input and how wise I it like literally, y'all.
28:57
SPEAKER_00: It was I won't forget because Holy Spirit was like, see, you have to be able to continue to grow in your trust that you're almost these weight, the fear that is underneath so many of these micromanagement, like there's gonna be a mess, or there's more pain, or there's pain for me, and there's pain for him.
29:12
SPEAKER_00: Like most of them underneath are fear.
29:16
SPEAKER_00: Fear of going wrong, fear of being late, fear of consequences, fear of mess, fear of more work.
29:21
SPEAKER_00: But like when you remind yourself that fear is never a helpful ingredient in how you show up, in your behaviors, in your thought life, in your words, it's like it gets a little easier to unpartner, so or to uncouple your partnership with fear.
29:38
SPEAKER_00: So when I was looking at the text, the Holy Spirit just reminded me, he's like, see, fear's a liar.
29:43
SPEAKER_00: Look, this is exactly if you had spoken in the moment what you would have hoped for, it would have gone like this.
29:48
SPEAKER_00: And it went like this, like 36 hours after the fact.
29:51
SPEAKER_00: Can you continue to grow in your patience to believe that this these moments, if you hold your tongue and you self-control and don't micromanage, you can be invited to have the voice that you're looking for.
30:00
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, ah, okay.
30:01
SPEAKER_00: So we're gonna end there because I'd I'd love the hope of you're not bad, you're not failing if you're related to a lot of this list.
30:08
SPEAKER_00: But if you're looking to change the dynamic in your mirror, your relationship, again, work relationship with your mom, with your roommates, you have to let go some of the ways that we it's um undermine partnership that we say we're looking for, you know?
30:23
SPEAKER_00: It's like ironic.
30:25
SPEAKER_00: Um, so asking yourself, am I helping or monitoring again?
30:29
SPEAKER_00: Am I um in my half of the partnership or am I managing?
30:33
SPEAKER_00: Where am I treating my preferences or my systems like the way, the truth and the light?
30:41
SPEAKER_00: Is there a natural consequence that I could let happen and not have to ding connection to to save him?
30:49
SPEAKER_00: But it's actually not saving anything.
30:50
SPEAKER_00: It's costing us connection, you know?
30:52
SPEAKER_00: What discomfort might I need to tolerate if I step back from some of these things?
30:57
SPEAKER_00: Where could I give him more room?
30:59
SPEAKER_00: Almost like choose one way, one, one of the list to work on, maybe be overwhelming to have all of them, but like, oh, it was like when I realized how many of these I had operating a couple years ago, it felt like feeling like you get a cancer diagnosis.
31:12
SPEAKER_00: I was like, I would not have said it was my a my a nager, a micromanager or controlling.
31:17
SPEAKER_00: And then I was like, oh, but this, this list.
31:20
SPEAKER_00: Okay, I have some more work to do.
31:22
SPEAKER_00: Um, the goal is not to keep your mouth shut and never remind him or never help, never speak up.
31:29
SPEAKER_00: Um, of course, like that's actually the opposite of what this message is.
31:33
SPEAKER_00: The the way to get help and get a partnership is usually not using these tools, like setting these tools down and be like, okay, Holy Spirit, I believe there's an upgrade when fear's not telling me to keep picking them back up.
31:44
SPEAKER_00: Can you show me when I don't see the path for it?
31:46
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, can you show me?
31:47
SPEAKER_00: Can you help self-soothe when I imagine not scoffing or saying something when it's done wrong or noticing a consequence or not reminding or not um correcting?
31:56
SPEAKER_00: Can you help me walk through and process the emotion and fear and belief that comes up in me that keeps having me step over the line of my half?
32:07
SPEAKER_00: I pray that you would just get breakthrough and there would be beautiful conviction that leads to thriving, not condemnation and no identity.
32:15
SPEAKER_00: You know, that you wouldn't listen to this being like, I'm failing.
32:17
SPEAKER_00: You're not.
32:18
SPEAKER_00: Maybe there's just some tools you didn't realize you thought were tools that are unhelpful, and you gotta put them down.
32:23
SPEAKER_00: Okay, guys.
32:24
SPEAKER_00: I hope you have a great week.